Catholic Priest Speaks Out On What Matters Most: Fr. Sammie Maletta on Discipleship

BE DISCIPLES. MAKE DISCIPLES. | Fr. Sammie Maletta on Parish Renewal, Leadership & the Holy Spirit

What does it actually take to renew a parish?

In this powerful episode, we sit down with our very own pastor, Fr. Sammie Maletta of St. John the Evangelist Parish, to discuss his new book:

“Be Disciples. Make Disciples: Eight Leadership Principles to Build a Spirit-Driven , Vision Focused Parish

Together, we unpack the 8 leadership principles behind parish renewal and transformation, and the incredible story of how St. John became a thriving, mission-driven Catholic parish.

But this conversation goes deeper than strategy.

We talk honestly about:
🔥 Following the promptings of the Holy Spirit
🔥 Resistance to change inside the Church
🔥 The fear of stepping into mission
🔥 Why discipleship must move beyond comfort
🔥 What it means to truly evangelize today
🔥 How parish renewal starts with personal conversion

Fr. Sammie shares real stories, practical wisdom, and spiritual insight into what happens when a parish stops settling for maintenance mode and starts embracing mission.

If you care about:
• Catholic discipleship
• Evangelization
• Parish renewal
• The Holy Spirit
• Leadership in the Church
• Catholic mission and transformation

…this is a conversation you do NOT want to miss.

👇 COMMENT BELOW:
What does discipleship look like in your life?

SUBSCRIBE for more Catholic conversations on faith, culture, discipleship, marriage, masculinity, and mission.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What does it actually take to build a parish that's not just surviving, but alive? Let's be honest, right now, a lot of churches are struggling, pews are empty, parishes are closing, and in many places it just feels like we're trying to maintain what's left. But at the same time, something interesting is happening. There's a hunger, especially among young people, for something real, something challenging, something that actually demands their life. So the question is, why are some parishes declining while others are growing, thriving, and forming real disciples? Today we're sitting down with our pastor, Father Sammy Muletta, to talk about that exact question, not just in theory, but from lived experience, from mistakes, pushback, bold decisions, and things that didn't always go over well. And from a deep reliance on the Holy Spirit. He just released a new book, Be Disciples Make Disciples, where he lays out eight leadership principles that have shaped a parish culture focused not just on attendance, but on transformation. Katie Frederickson.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

I'm the convert Catholic and she's the Cradle Catholic. And here we are with a very special guest, our very own pastor, Father Sammy Muletta. We're gonna be talking about his brand new book, Be Disciples, Make Disciples.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Which I finished in two days. Yeah, it was a very easy read, Father. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. Well, it only took you writing a book to finally get you to come on. So it's it's a it's a great time because it is so needed right now in the church. So what the first question I have is one that it really is is the heart of this whole book, I think, is that where we hear this call within a call, because you know, you you're an older priest, no offense, but you know, but it this is something that like you're reinventing yourself uh through the book. You talked, you know, how you were kind of going through the, you know, just the day-to-day, the maintenance of the church. But then there was a moment within your vocation that you know we hear sometimes called the call within the call to want to go and be more to make disciples be disciples. Can you tell us a little bit about that uh that moment and and what really clicked to see that there was something more to your priesthood?

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Yeah, I think uh I think what triggered all this was uh Sherry Waddell's book. When I read it was a very sobering read. There's a lot of terrible statistics in that book. I got involved in that idea of evangelization, which I hadn't paid a lot of attention to. I kind of had the attitude like evangelization, that's what Protestants do. Um if people want to come to church, they come to church. You know, what do you so um then Bishop Melzik at the time was encouraging me um and I was saying I read this book, it's really good, and then I read Rebuilt. And I thought, oh my gosh, this is our story. But everything that Father White went through, we did and we came to some of the same conclusions. Some were different. He really went more towards um mimicking Protestant uh style of things. We were open to learning some of the things. I mean, I think I put this in the book, this little thing of like I'm sitting at a fishing hole and and the guy next to me is pulling in all these fish and I'm not catching anything. Sooner or later I'm gonna say, what are you using for bait?

SPEAKER_05 3:33

Right.

SPEAKER_04 3:33

You know? So we w we wanted to learn for especially on hospitality, things like that. But the real pivot, the moment where everything became super clear for me was reading Divine Renovation. I just completely opened my mind to what was possible. And it also touched my heart. It was the calling of if you call it the call within the call. That was what they're doing, is what I need to do. I I knew I wanted more, always wanted more. I didn't know how to do it. And that was the frustration. It's like we hired this We hired a firm, uh, Bishop Melzik. You guys didn't know Bishop Melzik, did you?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

A little bit.

SPEAKER_04 4:21

He was a character. So he calls me one day, he said a mass for this organization in Cedar Lake they at the Bible camp.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Cedar Lake Ministries. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

So this um a evangelical Catholic was there. And that was mostly they worked with um college students, and they were just beginning to start parish uh track of their of what they were offering. He calls me, he says, You got to go down there. You gotta mean you you're interested in evangelization, you gotta go do this. I said, Well, give me the information and I'll contact. No, no, no, no. They're there right now. You just go right down there now. Show up. I said, I can't just Yeah, go down there right now. Please now. So I went in the office of the bishop and said, we have to go down there. So we literally went cold turkey, walked in, introduced ourselves, and the next day the guy came out and we worked. It that relationship didn't really work out for us because they were just starting and we had already had done stuff, you know. So that was really the and then the feeling that and I didn't have the language uh until we became familiar with the uh A-Pest. That where I land on the A-Pest is profit. And I really f I don't say this like it's not you don't get to pick who you who you are, it's just who you are. But I really feel God speaks to me. I really feel the Holy Spirit speaks to me. And I I remember the frustration of coming back to staff with the Holy Spirit wants us to do this, and everybody looking at me like I was crazy. Nobody wanted to do anything that I was suggesting. Even what has now become synonymous with St. John the Evangelist, be disciples make disciples. There was an argument on staff, a big argument that that was inappropriate.

unknown 6:18

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Ina Inappropriate? Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

Because our whole thing is be disciples who make disciples who love God, who love others, and who care for the poor. They thought caring for the poor was insulting to poor people. Oh. Yeah. It was But I was used to that because ever since I've been a kid, I've been told I can't do it. I've been told over and over and over you're not enough. Who are you? Who do you think you are? It's not gonna happen. And I was you know, I was born one of the most uncoordinated people on the planet, so I couldn't excel in sports because I was terrible. It was just like I'm a terrible driver. I just don't have that hand-eye coordination to do things. Um I was dyslexic. Um they didn't discover that until college. Um my first year in the seminary, I almost flunked out. I was uh a D plus grade average until they discovered the dyslexia, and then my grade shot up. You know, and then I was able to but even in law school, I remember the dean taking me out for lunch and for a walk around the campus and saying he didn't realize that I was dyslexic, and maybe because I'm dyslexic, I should consider withdrawing from the school because there's another person saying you can't, and that's almost like what fuels your it was like a red flag before in a bowl. I mean tell me I can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

I think that's I think that's such a good part with with your ministry because so much of it is that we just want to get along to we don't want to rock any boats. Like most of the people, a pastor literally means shepherd. So people want to shepherd. They don't want to they want people to be upset, but you have to have that tension between, yes, we want to go out and be fishers of men, but we also still have to tend to the sheep. But so much of it's so gets lost in that evangelization, the word about it. But it's like, no, we just need to expand and and we're we're losing more than are coming in.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

That's what I also realized through that process of looking for evangelization and finding methodologies and systems and uh procedures to follow, that leadership is terribly important. And here's one of the things you cannot be an effective leader if you avoid conflict at all costs. Can't.

unknown 8:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:46

It's like you don't want to look for conflict. Yeah. But it's absolutely going to be there and you can't run from it.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

And that's the same within marriage. If we never argue or fight, that means one of us is always getting their way. And that means that one person's unhappy and gonna eventually be resentful. It's like sometimes that conflict is there.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Or f it festers later, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

But as far as some of the stories in the book that you talk about is this pushback, we felt the same thing coming from uh our our parish when we were reading the same books as Sherry Waddell and Divine Renovation. Because you saw possibilities here that you our pastor told us to come here.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Yeah, well that no, it's funny. Because he wasn't selfish about it, but we were doing we went to the We went to the Amazing Parish Conference, which you know, our pastor kind of roped us in. We thought it was a marriage thing we were going to, and then we all should have because he he had broken English. We didn't know what we were even going to Colorado for. But so so but Bob read rebuilt reading. This is what he gets fixated on, you know. This hold on just because we were in a parish where it was my my home parish growing up, the potential was so there. We worst uh after we went to Amazing Parish, he just told our pastor, I'm starting alpha. Like he didn't know. He tried to talk me out of it. He was a little bit more than a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

I didn't miss him to get trained. So I said, I'm gonna do it. I don't care. We're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

It was so cool. One time I had to come to SJE for a mass, it was because if I needed um, you know, to be somewhere, I found like the the parish I could go to that aligned with the mass time that I right.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

It was convenient. Right. Because we were already living here in Indiana. Yes. How many of you guys were? We've been here 11 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

So I went and I called Bob right away after right after, and I got every pamphlet I could on your process, you know. And I I texted Father Yasik and I called Bob like, they're doing all the things and they're actually doing all the things. Like the things we're trying, we we we got so much resistance, right? Because people are are really they hold on to their this is the way we've always done it, or they hold on to what makes them comfortable, like their pancake breakfasts and their um bingos. And when you try to s to to start something new, especially in a very established place, that resistance is real, you know. Most people can't take it. And like they're doing all the things. And and that's where Father goes, you should just go there. Like, we want to bring you out here, you know.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

I feel guilty because we like who if we leave, who else is gonna do the work? Yeah. And we were in the process of renew my church. They were doing the three parishes down to two. The reason I started really getting involved is like our church isn't gonna be the one that's gonna close. So that's where I got really passionate about it. I'm like, I'm willing to do whatever it could. And I reached out to all the other parishes about joining us in Alpha. Like I went and got trained, I read all the books, like I bought the whole kit. Like I read all five books that come with the kit. Like I was invested into it. Like Katie and I, I was working, I would get off of work, I would go to the grocery store, we would cook the food in the kitchen ourselves, me and Katie. We didn't have any budget. We were paying for all of it ourselves. We were that passionate about doing it. And then when we found out, she texted me after she left here. She's like, they're doing the stuff I'm like.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Doing all the things. So that's what we were up against so much resistance, right? Did and and that's what I love about what I my favorite part about the book was you had a lot of resistance from others.

SPEAKER_04 12:11

Um, my first introduction, the very first day I was here, I think I put it in the book. The sacristan said to me, I wish you and everyone who came with you would go to hell and die. Die and go to hell.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Talk about resistance. Well, welcome to St. John. But that just shows the resiliency and the importance of resiliency because you again, the stories spoke to me of yes, you had resistance from others, but you also had resistance within yourself. This book is very humble. You're very humble in the book. Your stories, like you really kind of beat yourself up in a way in a but just showing that within the context of what the things that you were trying to do, you received a resistance from outside, but also within yourself and your pride and things you struggled with yourself.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

So I say with the first principle here, it's not about you.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:59

And I think why I I knew I was putting myself out and it looks like I'm beating myself up, but I felt I needed to demonstrate that, just like I do in everything else here. I can't ask you to do something that I'm not willing to do myself.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

And I think one of the biggest problems and the biggest blocks that we have in the church today is clericalism. Both clericalism from the clergy who think that uh not understanding that we are uniquely different, but that doesn't make us better than. And also clericalism from the laity, who when they get into a position of power, they get in charge of this committee or that committee, they become just completely inflexible and not open to anything but their own ideas. Right. So you have to face that part of you inside if you're gonna let the Holy Spirit work. And this the book and the story of St. John the Evangelist is and it's not finished. It's not like we're we're not saying that We made it. We made it like a hundred percent of the way, but we definitely have surrendered so much to the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

And I think that what we see a lot is a lot of the pastors don't want to let go of any of the authority. They want to micromanage everything. And you tell stories in the book about people who who come and show up, but then they're like, no, but I still want to be involved. Because what it what does it do, this clericalism, it allows you to do the stuff that only priests can do. Focus on giving the homilies, focus on the sacraments, visiting the sick, instead of, hey, worrying about the the building or worrying about all these other little things that are important. But if we can invest in leaders so that they, you know, you can lay out your vision to them what you want, and then have some accountability, but give them enough rope where they can hang themselves.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

But you know, the thing is like I don't know it's very difficult for me because you when you have a paradigm shift, when something changes, you can never look at it the same way without seeing. And there are people who haven't had that paradigm shift. But I don't get like it's so easy. Leadership's about multiplication. Yeah. I mean, I'll I'll just use you, Bobby, as an example. You started a Bible study for men. Nobody came to me as pastor and said, Should you do this? Yeah. Nobody asked me what the parameters were. And when I heard that it was going on, I said, that's wonderful. I'm not the kind of likes to ask for permission much either.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Like I said, he just went and got trained enough.

SPEAKER_04 15:39

But no, but I mean, but that's the difference. I mean, if I had controlled that, would we even have a bio? What do you got? About 50 guys showing up from the yeah, yeah, uh give or take.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

I mean, this week it was kind of light because of spring break, but yeah, but what I'm seeing is that you're the the model that you set up here, you are empowering so many people. And what happens is people have different gifts. Like, say somebody who's a mother wants to start a group for moms, somebody who's a mechanic wants to help people, single moms. Like they're we're waiting around for the the priest to to be Christ to other people is kind of ridiculous to me. As an outsider, that's uh I bring a totally different uh you know perspective because I didn't grow up in the the norms of the church. Like I came in on fire, and that's where converts have a different vantage point. I see things so differently. I see, you know, like hey, like this doesn't it this isn't working, you know. And and it for for me, it's like that's what I I fell in love with this parish because I'm seeing people go stretching. You always talk about the Holy Spirit. And what we like to say on the podcast is a lot is if we don't put ourselves in uncomfortable situations, how can we expect the comforter, the Holy Spirit, to come in? We only go as far as we're comfortable, you know, our teaching.

SPEAKER_04 16:47

One of the things I say all the time is if you want something you never had before, you've got to be willing to do something you've never done before.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Right, right. And be uncomfortable, be willing to be uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

That's where how our brain grows, that's how our muscles grow. It's it's it's in that tension that we want to get rid of, is where the tension is where we grow, but tension is such a bad word. It's like, well, tension's necessary.

SPEAKER_04 17:06

This tension is that's the problem because the most priests and bishops are shepherds. Yeah. One of the key um characteristics of a shepherd is we don't want to rock the boat. And I don't care if the boat is rocked. I sort of want the boat to be rocked. I want to shake things up and I want to see where they fall. I want to understand it's like for me, and that's again my personality. If I'm in the classroom, I was one of those students that either a teacher loved or hated because I pushed. I wanted to know, I'm not gonna take your word for it. Explain this to me. This doesn't make sense. Push a little further.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:47

And a good teacher would respond like that was you know, this this student really is one of my favorites. A bad teacher was shut up and leave me alone.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Like don't challenge me.

SPEAKER_04 18:01

So, you know, the same way with with pastoring. Um but one of the things that we see here, if I can segue into this a little bit, is two things I want to say. When when I started letting go of stuff and created a structure so that things would run properly, my preaching got better, my spirituality, my my relationship with the Lord got stronger. Um and just simple things like how I received bad news. Whereas maybe in the past I would react far more negatively than I do now. Now I just kinda like to take things in stride. I w went up to say mass. This is so funny because this past weekend I go up to say mass and we have all these visitors here. Saturday evening. So we had like I don't know, fifty, sixty people, the whole section of the church was filled with uh visitors and the book's not set right. Now twenty years ago I would have been ticked. And the sacristan came running to me apologizing there was a mistake, and I said how things happen. And it really said to me like like what a difference in mature how those little things like that that don't really matter. I mean, I had to flip through the pages and everyone knew that something was not right, but we went on, it was no big deal. So and then the other thing is that what we've seen, especially in the last five years, is fruit. Fruit, fruit, fruit every week. Every week. On almost at every mass, someone comes up and wants to tell a story how their life has been changed because of this parish. Someone came up to me this weekend at the six at the uh Saturday uh Mass and said, Well, it's finally good to meet you. We've been watching you on TV. We're from South Bend. And we finally made the journey down here to be at St. John. I was like, Wow, I mean, that's amazing. When we open when we did the book opening, this lady comes up to me and she says, I came from uh Pittsburgh today. And I said, I thought she was a prisoner who was traveling. I said, Whoa, that's very nice of you. Found out that she lives in Pittsburgh and she came all the way to come to the book. She heard the book on uh one of the interviews uh that we did.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Well, I want to piggyback on that because sometimes when you're starting something new, you don't see fruit and you get discouraged.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

So how did you I said from the very beginning, I told the staff we will get smaller before we get larger. And I just knew that if we're gonna go this route, some people will not take it. When we when we shifted to we cr we tried to it gradually, we did what we call blended music. But music is really important in churches. Either you got a good music program or you don't. And so we gradually shifted to the contemporary Christian music. And I knew some people would not like it. And we backed a little bit up because we carved out the eight o'clock mass. I noticed that Father Mallon did the same thing. Uh he had a he had an evening mass that was more traditional. With a difference between going to his earlier mass with contemporary Christian music and the one in because we went to both.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Oh, okay. You were able to go to that?

SPEAKER_04 21:34

We went to his first uh conference.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:37

That's where we met Ron Hunley. So it was like a black and white TV difference, color TV. I mean it was a live and vibrant and you know, like this all uh in yourself. So um that I knew people would leave and they did, and as a parent. Master, just like if your children go away, yeah. It hurts.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

If there's a if there's a conflict.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

But I I I think in John chapter twelve always is that sometimes a grain of weed has to die to bear much fruit. And it hurts to prune, but that's the same way that Jesus left the ninety-nine for the one. Like that doesn't make any sense. Why would you leave the the people that are there for that one person? But one soul is worth it. You've you got one soul from Pittsburgh. Like we don't understand the impact of this, but we gotta be willing to let things die. If you are being led by the Holy Spirit and you truly believe that this is what you're trying to do, yeah. Some you know, Jesus goes, you know, they go from town to town and they're not they're they don't receive it. What does he say? Shake the dust off your sandals and go on. Like you're doing what you think that you're called to be doing through the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_04 22:44

One of the more common criticisms was you're you're making the church Protestant. Well, let's talk about the screens, because we have these massive screens in the church. So when we were ready to build the church, there's two things I wanted. I did not want pews in the church, I wanted chairs. Because I can do more with chairs, I could use this more the space for other things.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

And I wanted screens. And the people we had these meetings, we filled the gym twice, everyone came in with little stickers. We gave three stickers. And they broke into small groups, and then they put what they wanted to see in the church on newsprint, and then people went around with their stickers and they could So at the end I kind of knew what they wanted to do to build the church. But I recommended that we have screens and chairs and overwhelming, like maybe ninety-five percent of the people. Absolutely not. That's Protestant, we're not doing it. And now I find it very interesting because we've got 250 chairs for overflow, and now those are the first seats people take. And the screens go up and down, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

They kind of blend in too.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

But the screens were like I I eventually said to myself, this is crazy. Another priest in our diocese put screens up, and that was offensive to me because it was my idea. Oh, they did it before you did it? Yeah. Oh. So uh not like ours. They weren't nice like ours. So I did it, and people were I got my t tail chewed out. I think the thing about the music too. Trevor Burrus, Jr. And now it's a norm.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

The thing about the music, I I think that the the piece that you guys have that the other churches who try is that quality matters. Because we've been to churches that try to do contemporary, who are just the people in the church and are just playing, and it's not good. So you can have traditional or contemporary, but the you should overinvest, you talk about that in the book, into the music department. And what I've found with the contemporary music is that I'm I lean more traditional, but I really like those songs, especially outside of church. And what I find is that our kids love it outside of church. They you catch them in their rooms listening to those songs. My son will be in the shower singing these songs in his daily life. So it's carrying with them positive outside of the mass. Yeah. And on Sundays when we're in the car, we only listen to that kind of music. So it really does help, you know, you know, really impact their lives outside of the church. And I think that's important. But I think the quality is a big part.

SPEAKER_04 25:14

I agree. Oh, yeah. And you know, and there's two schools of thought in Catholic churches that your musicians should come from the parish and they're unpaid. And so you're going to get amateurs doing amateur things. We have invested in professional people. Not all of them are Catholic.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:34

We pay them because the Sunday experience is that important. I'm going to have those people, and this is my primary opportunity to bring them to an encounter with Christ. And so whatever resources I have, I want to be able to do that. So it's when they come in, they feel welcomed. There's something different. The church itself is a beautiful uh worship space. Which is kind of like, is it contemporary or is it traditional? Orthodox with a twist. One of the first things we came here, I heard you say, and that really piqued my interest.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Yeah, me too. Right.

SPEAKER_04 26:10

And so the preaching has to be decent. Uh the music has to be, as you say, quality. Can't have crappy music.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:19

Um regardless of whatever. Whether it be traditional music, the organ or the singers, or all of it.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Because it's it's not guaranteed.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Everything's catered to the unchurch, and that's what I love. Because we well, Bob's whole family is is not anything. You know, Bob was raised without any faith. Mm majority of my family has now fallen away. So I think the one of the it's to me, it's an easy invitation, right? Come and and to Easter.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

You had a guest.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Yeah. So his brother um was there and and it was a um a regular mass, how it opens up, you know. We're so glad you're here. If you're not Catholic, if you've if this is your first time in church in a long time, we're we're so glad you're here. You I felt the shoulders like go down. And it's funny, we've been praying for our family members for conversion for such a long time. That's like every, every everything I do, I'm praying for, you know, my family. Um it's so interesting how it ends up being Bob's uh mom's husband, who now has been like coming on his own. Because he just feels something. Now he was raised Catholic. He was raised. But he wasn't practicing. He's not practicing, you know, he's not, but he comes even now on his like we'll be at Mass on a Sunday. We've been going to more Saturdays because of of things right now. But if we're there on a Sunday and he'll he'll find us and we're like, oh, you've been coming, huh? You know, I'm like, of all people, like we've been praying. So it's just funny how God works and how there's so much that like I don't have to, all of Bob's family, I don't have to say, Oh, this is when we stand now. This is when we kneel now, do you want the book? Do you do you know what I mean? It's all there on the screens. If they feel uncomfortable because they don't know a prayer or how to respond, it's right there. Everything is welcome, you're welcome here. If you don't know what to do, it's all here for you. Also the screen is so easy.

SPEAKER_04 28:13

Just think physically. When you're looking down at a book and you're singing. Versus when you lift your head up and you're seeing the words on the screen and you're singing. So it's really helped the participation.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Yeah, from everybody, whether they're practicing or new.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

And the thing about the book is like what why I wrote this book is because we we realize that there's something very special happening here at St. John. You guys are testimony to that coming from another parish.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Trevor Burrus, Jr. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:43

And we want all parishes to have what we have. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: We want to share our ideas. We want to be support-that's why we do that uh disciple up conference every year. To create a community uh of people who want more but don't know exactly how to do it. And so some very practical ways of getting that done.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

With real with with real humility and saying it's not always going to work exactly the way you think it's going to be.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

You're never going to be able to do it the same way.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

And you're never going- Yeah, and and I think that's what's so good about the book again, with the with you know, it would be kind of dry if you didn't have the the personal stories in it, right?

SPEAKER_04 29:23

Like, I didn't want the pictures in it. That I wrote- I fought. No, I got all voted over and over.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

There's so much that, you know, you can sit and and tell me a list of principles to do and how to do things, but it makes it tangible when it's in a story. Right? It makes it memorable.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

And it was just like that that story of like, yeah, people are taking it for granted. And I I I know the book is very humble, be disciples, make disciples, but I'm the one who always wants to brag on you guys because you guys are really humble. But like Khalil and you guys are really humble. I'm I'm struggle, I struggle with that. But what I want to brag on, like, there's the authority of the time. This has been 10 plus years of you guys for having fruit. And you guys don't brag about it, but I think I can brag for you is that if you do come to a mass here, you're gonna see the fruit. You're gonna see it from the people, the smiles and the joy of the people. I've got to know so many people in a deep way. And it's like when I come to church, if it's just me and God, that's great. But when you are connected in communion with everybody else and you know people and you know their kids and they know you, it the experience is so different. And that's what sets that apart here in St. John is that it's yes, Orthodox with a twist, we're Christ-centered, but we're also connected to each other. Uh the secret weapon of this parish that I also, every time I get a chance, I scream it is the almost 30 years of perpetual adoration chapel because I know what that is the engine of this.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

You can't even begin to comprehend the graces that have come from the fact that 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year, someone is before the Blessed Sacrament praying. It's uh it's an amazing eye. And I give all that credit to my predecessor who came up with and started that. But I I think there he there was a little fear that when I first got here that I wouldn't support that. Well, I would have been an idiot not to support that, right?

unknown 31:27

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

And we're we're coming up here on uh Holy Week, and and what does Jesus say when he's in the garden and he's praying? You couldn't stay with me an hour. And look what happens. We got people who are signing up an hour slot for 168 hours a week. They're in there praying. Sometimes I I was in there yesterday, there's 10 people in there praying. It's like we have people who are praying not just for themselves, but for the mission. Who gets me?

SPEAKER_03 31:48

If someone gets up at two o'clock in the morning, gets dressed, and comes down here to spend their hour before.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Oh my gosh. And they've been some of them have been doing that for over 20 years since it started, which is I think such a beautiful testimony.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

But it just shows what I really appreciate about the parish that that there's something for everybody. Like if serving the poor is your thing, there's a ministry for that. If praying the rosary is a thing or being an adorer, there's something for everybody. The church is so big and everybody has their unique charisms and gifts that the church embraces that. Like for me, like I do the men's workout, I do the Bible study.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Some people is you know knitting blankets, some people it's and and like father alluded to, with if you want to start something, there's nothing that's gonna be roadblocking you from starting that.

SPEAKER_04 32:31

Well, I would say we we try to say it has to fit the mission. Yeah. We're really focused on the mission. So you're gonna have to j if you want support from the parish, you're gonna have to justify how this ministry supports the mission.

SPEAKER_05 32:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:48

But other than that, I mean this would be shocking to most pastors. I don't have a key to the church. I don't know how to turn on the lights, I don't know how to work the sound system. You know why? Because there's almost five hundred people a week who volunteer to do all these things. And why should I, as the priest, who's the only one who can anoint, is the only one who can hear confessions, the only one who can celebrate mass, why should I concern myself with things that other people can willingly do and give them a sense of their baptismal dignity?

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

I mean, I and when Jesus wrote go make disciples, he wasn't just saying just a priest. He's calling all of us to do that. And and here it's a way where we can do that. A way that we uh we can do that with whatever our charisms are. And it's a it's such a beautiful model that you have, like I said, it because it it really does empower people. When you give people some freedom within obviously the the mission of the church, it's like people are we'll step up. At the at the book signing, I always like to to to brag on you about this as well, is that because that's what I believe in my own life, is that you hold the people that come to this church to high standards. And some people don't like that. That when you come here, it's it's it's man it's mandatory mass policy. It's not mandatory how much money you're gonna give. Like that's what people may think. It's about that if uh you're the you're in charge of their of their souls for heaven and that you hold the standard. You what really we really got jazzed was that there was a covenant that you had to sign. I'm like, there's a covenant? I'm like, you want it in blood? Like that's it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

I'm like, I think this is another phone call. They're doing all the things was the one phone call. Then um I you know enrolled Avery in the RE program here, and I I had the meeting you came out and you talked about this, and I'm like, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, there's a covenant. This is so exciting. Like probably not that's not everybody's reaction to that.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

But the but the slings and arrows that you get about holding to a standard, because if we have high standards, a lot of people will rise to them, but if you don't, nobody will raise to those standards. So tell us just a little bit as we start to end that end here about what that meant to you and why that you you keep those standards high and what it costs you because it it it does get a lot of people upset.

SPEAKER_04 35:14

Aaron Powell Years ago when I first became pastor in my last parish, so that was now close to forty years ago. So years ago, I read a book. I can't remember the name of the book or the author, but it was about how to keep men in churches written by a Protestant. And one of the things that stuck with me out of that book was you men want to be challenged. And you raise the bar. And also that fits my personality type. Tell me I can't do something, I'm gonna do it. And if if it's expected at this level, I'm gonna strive to do it at this level. And it's become kind of a personal philosophy, like everything that I do. If I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it to the best of my ability. From polishing my shoes to cooking a pasta sauce to uh pastoring a parish, I'm gonna give it m a hundred and ten percent, or I'm not gonna do it at all. And so what you see when you come to St. John the Evangelist is you will see a lot of men.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:28

A lot of men have come here and stay here. Men who didn't go to church before, men who didn't take their religion seriously, have now become faithful members in the church.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Hey, can you move these chairs? Hey, can you do this?

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Just we're just and that was where his frustration was lying, because that is what he was asking for.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Or you want to be an usher, which is necessary, but I was I was looking for someone to challenge.

SPEAKER_04 36:57

And I say also the preaching uh is very challenging. And I get a lot of pushback on that from women because they feel like I come to church to feel good about myself. And well, I don't know if that's why you should come to church. I think come to church to grow and to be uh uh certainly encouraged in your faith. Flip the comfortable and comfort the afflicted. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Yeah, but here's the bottom line: we're all sinners. Yes. And we're all going to die. If you don't face those realities square on, then you're you're you're like running from your shadow. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

Yeah. And and what I love too is that you always are recognizing the children. A lot of parishes don't do a great job of like when there's crying children or encouraging the kids or bringing them up and getting them involved. That's why, you know, as parents, that's why there's a you know, obviously we got to school, but embracing families is such a big part of any growing church. Too many churches are a lot of white-haired ladies, if we're honest, if we're looking around. So, you know, looking at this this the model of Be Disciples, make disciples, of how to cater towards families because that's gonna be the lifeblood of the church. And and you can't have, you know, can't have a bunch of kids in a parish and not expect there to be some commotion and some script-runner.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

But I'll tell you, kids have changed a lot. We part of the contemporary Christian music, one of my things was I don't want kids to be bored in church. If they're bored in church, they're gonna psychologically grow up, church is boring, and then they're gonna become teenagers and they're not. That's the other thing. If you come to St. John the Evangelist, guess what you'll see? Teenagers. And not just one or two.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

And reading reading at at mass too and involved, not just in the views. Right.

SPEAKER_05 38:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Well, I want to say one thing too that I'm taking away just from the conversation is that you know, we asked you a question of what gave you this idea or what made you think to do this. And and every one of your responses has been you read a book. And that what that shows is obviously that you're a reader, but also that you're a lifelong learner, that you're not settling for um just what it is right now. I want to learn something new. I want to take something.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

You don't have to start scratch with new ideas. You you you you study people who've done it before you and you can you can take what they've done and improvise when you have to.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

It's almost like something is a springboard.

unknown 39:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

It's not their idea necessarily, but the inspiration. It's inspiration, and then the Holy Spirit takes you someplace else. Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

That you're seeking, though, you're seeking that that knowledge. Um so I think that again, so so if someone were to read your book, we can close with this. If one someone what would you want their takeaway? Well, you know, I read this book by this priest, Father Sammy, and this is what I took out of that book. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 39:44

He'll never see this, so I'll share this with you. I have a very good priest friend. He's been my priest friend for several years. He's been a diocesan official in his diocese. It's not our diocese, not their diocese. There's nothing that I can say to him. There's nothing that I could do to get even a spark of curiosity about parish renewal. His appreciation of or his viewpoint of parish, if I'm paying the bills, I'm successful. Okay. It's totally maintenance. He read the book.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:22

And he ordered 10 copies to give to his staff because he sees things here that he thinks they could achieve.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 40:30

So if my friend could make that kind of change, that's what I hope for the book does to everyone else.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

There's something that everybody takes something that speaks to them and launches into a new idea. And like you said, just being open to the spirit and what the spirit because this every God knows what every parish needs, God knows what every you know priest needs. And just having those things, those ideas speak to them on their personal level. That's exactly it. So I got something uh big time out of it.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

So the book is Be Disciples, Make Disciples, Father Sammy Muletta, our pastor. If you want to get this book, uh you can go to Lorrainecross.com and we'll have the link here uh below in in in the YouTube comments. And um we just want to really thank you for taking the time and writing the book. And we appreciate your your priesthood and all that you've done for us. Thanks. Thank you very much.