Can What You Wear Actually Bring Someone to Jesus?

Can what you wear actually bring someone closer to Jesus?

On this episode of The Catholic Couple Podcast, Bobby sits down with Michael Kalivas, founder of Saintly Society, a Catholic clothing and apparel company creating hats, shirts, and Catholic gear designed to help Catholics boldly wear their faith.

We talk about the story behind Saintly Society, Catholic entrepreneurship, evangelization, masculine Catholic style, and why something as simple as a Catholic hat or shirt can open the door to a conversation about Jesus Christ.

Our Catholic faith was never meant to be hidden. Whether it’s at work, the gym, the grocery store, or walking through your neighborhood, what would happen if Catholics became more comfortable letting the world know who they belong to?

Michael shares why he built Saintly Society, the mission behind the brand, and how Catholic apparel can become a simple tool for evangelization.

Wear your faith. Start conversations. Point people toward Christ.

If you enjoyed the conversation, subscribe to The Catholic Couple Podcast for more conversations about Catholic faith, marriage, family, culture, evangelization, and living boldly for Jesus Christ.

#Catholic #CatholicFaith #CatholicPodcast #Evangelization #SaintlySociety

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It's one thing, hey, I just want to sell some hats and some t-shirts. It's another that, you know, somebody wants to evangelize the culture through hats and through shirts. Like having obviously great quality, right? Uh the you know, you guys have been seeing me wearing this Agnes Day or the the Ave Maria hats. Like I I wear them everywhere I go. Like if I if I go to the bar of my friends, I'm wearing it at the bar. And then someone's gonna ask me, Oh, what's that? Oh, really? Did you just open up the door for me to tell you what it is? So explain to everybody else your kind of vision about how to evangelize the culture through through what we wear.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Yeah, so I I mean it is evangelization by bringing this to the mainstream, right? You're wearing a hat right now that says Anus de Miserere Nobis, uh, you know, Lamb of God, have mercy on us. We just that is a prayer. You are wearing a prayer right now. When you're walking down the street, anybody who sees you, when they read that, they just said a prayer, right? And like I said, God can do a lot with a little, and so that's an opening.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

All right, welcome to another episode of the Catholic Couple Having Fun with Faith, Family, and Friends. I'm riding solo today, but I do have a great guest. Michael from Saintly Society has uh joined us uh to talk about all things, his conversion story. We're gonna be talking about his awesome company, Saintly Society. You probably see me wearing his hats. He's gracious enough to send us over some awesome gear, and we've actually got to meet a few times in person. So, Michael, thank you so much for taking the time and and joining the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Man, thanks for having me, Bobby. This is great. Is it really cool? It's good to see you again.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Yeah, yeah, I know. You too. It's like it's weird to be in the digital space and talk to somebody, but then once you actually meet somebody in real life and you click and you, you know, you kind of have a relationship in that way, it's like that's what I've been preaching lately on the podcast is to have one foot in the digital space and one foot embodied in parish life or or the real world. And I think that you know, people who do a lot of things online can really get lost in a digital space and realize like, no, it's it's really in the real world where we're gonna make the difference for sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

No, for sure. And if you've never met Bobby in person, he's massively tall, and I'm the opposite. I'm about five foot five on a good day.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Yeah. And it's but hey, we we got the beards, we're we're rocking it, and we we first met, I believe, at the National Eucharistic Congress. You guys had a booth there, and I was just appreciating your guys' stuff, and then we met again at at Seek and and uh you know we we've done some collaborations and some stuff. So so happy to to to be your friend now and and for you to take some time out of your busy schedule. So you want to tell everybody who doesn't know you, maybe just a little bit about you and your story, and then we'll get into how Saintly Society got started and what what's the mission and things like that. But first, everyone's got their conversion story, whether you're Cradle Catholic or a cover Catholic. Well, what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Yeah, classic Cradle Catholic reversion story. Um, you know, so I was uh, you know, obviously born into the faith and um you know went to church every Sunday with my parents, um, and then you know, more towards high school, uh started to kind of fall away uh from attending mass daily. Um and then in college it was just it was it was just absolute mayhem, unfortunately. Um but the funny thing is uh you know, during that time in college, I was one of those people I always recognized God in my life. I just pushed him off to the side. And I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do what I want to do right now, and then I'll go, you know, be Catholic later, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

And I think that's I I think that's a story for a lot of people in their 20s. I what what what are the I haven't seen any statistics, but what do you think the percentage of people who leave home for the first time go away to college? How many people who were going to mass, all of a sudden they go to college? It's uh if I had a guess, I'd say it's 90-95% of people fall away at that point. It's just part of like this rite of passage in the American Catholic Church.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Yep. No, I'd agree with that. I think um it's definitely on the high side, if not, you know, 100%. Um, you know, and I why does that happen? You know, I think obviously the culture, right? Um, I think the other thing for me, um I you know, I went to Catholic grade school, K through twelve, and there's a lot of things, or Stiasis in school, there's a lot of things that I didn't find out about the faith until I was much older. Uh really during my reversion, right? Does anybody know that we have to fast on Fridays like throughout the entire year? I had no idea. That was completely foreign to me. Um the other thing I think was kind of sad growing up and going to Catholic school, is that no one ever taught me the importance of prayer. Um and not only that, outside of the thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

They taught you how to say prayers, but not how to pray.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Exactly. Right? Um, and and as we all know, that's the foundation of everything. It's life or death, right? Um and we all notice that in ourselves, right? So if we stop praying for a week, you're backsliding, right? And I've I've seen that happen. Um so you know, I was really um I I thought about that a lot when I came back to the faith that it's such a you know foundational, you know, it's a relationship with God. How can you have a relationship if you don't talk to him? Um and I I found that my experience in Catholic school kind of failed me in that way. Obviously, I got that from my parents, but um I think the the Catholic schools need to do a little bit better. I don't know how they are right now. My kids uh they go to a pretty orthodox um uh Catholic school, so they're they're pretty good about that. But um that was one of the things that um I looking back on it, I thought was kind of sad. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Yeah, I I mean I can only speak, you know, I um I went to public school and and all the Catholic kids I went to grade school, none of them still go to church. You know, not only that I I think part of the problem, what I've what I've seen as a convert, you know, we see things totally different. I've been Catholic now 17 years, but converts they just see everything a little bit different. And and what I what I see is you know, there are some that are catechized that do know what they believe, but they haven't been evangelized. They've never had that idea about you know the difference of saying prayers, which are important, you know, I pray the rosary every day, uh, I love our Father, the Hail Mary, the glory be, the St. Michael's Prayer. I love those things. But those, that's just like if I just wrote my wife a poem and I just read that to her all the time and just said the same thing, but instead of just having a daily conversation, like just using my own words from my heart of like, hey, God, I'm really thankful, or God, I'm really sad, or I really I don't understand that, just treating God as not just somebody up in the sky, but somebody who's has a vested interest in your life who's walking with you. You know, we we have you know the Trinity, so it's like we have all different ways to to to to speak to God, and and it's a beautiful thing. But I just think we've the Catholic Church has done a poor job of you know evangelizing if they've even been catechized. I would say two percent of Catholics have actually even read the catechism. The catechism's 600 pages, it's a dense book, and I I get most people have time to do things like that. Uh God bless Father Mike Schmidt's Catechism of the Year, that's an easy way to do it. But I think that there is a resurgence, at least just speaking from my wife, who's not on the podcast right now because today was her first day with the teachers at you know her Catholic school that she's leading, and they started today with a retreat. So she led them all in a retreat. So it obviously starts from the head down where the principal's at is a big deal uh and and where they're at in their faith journey. But unfortunately, a lot of Catholic schools are Catholic in name only. But I think that we can definitely do a better job of supporting them. But at the end of the day, it's on the parents. And most importantly, it's on the fathers. The statistics are bearing that out that men who go to mass, who lead in prayer, who are spiritually leaders in their homes, who you know don't miss mass and take it serious, that the the statistics are something like 80% of their kids in their adult ages will continue to be faithful Catholics if their father takes it serious. It's that important. So I think I'm not trying to like you know say, okay, well, the Scatholic schools don't have any responsibility. I'm gonna say ultimately it it you know, we believe in subsidiarity. It starts first in in the home and then our community, you know, then the school, and then obviously the pastor and the relationships there. But I think that definitely everybody could be better all the way around. And we should support those good kids, you know, the ones who who are doing a good job, we should support them and send all of our kids there and try to help, you know, raise money for them or whatever it is. If you want stuff like that, we got to support them.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Yeah. No, and that statistic's actually interesting. I don't know the exact number, but uh even comparing that to the mother, right? Yeah. So it's um uh your child is more likely to remain faithful um if the father is practicing more than just the mother. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

So that I mean if it's just the father and not the mother, like but if but if it's both, it's like boom, you know. And that and and that goes the same for divorce uh among you know serious Catholics or Christians in general, that if they go to church together and they pray together, it's like a 1% chance they're gonna get divorced. Yep. It's like this is like foolproof. It's like, okay, the the the genius of Catholicism, the genius of the church, it it it's it's sustained societies for for millennia, and it's like, okay, we're we're trying to reinvent the wheel. It's like, okay, it's not that complicated. Yeah, it's hard, but it's like the the thing about getting married and starting a family in in the church is that there's no escape hatch. Like when it gets hard, there's suffering, there's goods, there's bad, that we're in this no matter what. And mom and dad may fight, and you know, Katie and I fight, we're not perfect, but I always turn to the kids and say, hey, just because we disagree on this thing and we're arguing a little bit, we're never leaving each other. Like we're we're with each other forever. And I think that's very important. So how did so how did you get back on track, though? We kind of went down a rabbit hole here on Catholic school. But you you went to Catholic school, so but there was this homing signal, right? You you did it, wasn't like we'll hear, well, I wasted all that money on Catholic school, you know. Uh but the church does, I think, rely a little bit too much waiting for, well, they'll come back when they want to get married and they got kids and they want to get baptized, which the sacraments are a draw back to the church because there is an original connection, even if it's just cultural. I but I think it's more of a a homing signal that there's an indelible mark that those sacraments actually put on us to keep calling us back. So, how did how did uh Jesus get your attention to say, hey, you know what, uh cut

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SPEAKER_00 10:38

come back?

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Yeah, part of it was the the birth of my firstborn uh daughter. Um that that was major because then it's you know the the responsibilities there and

(Cont.) Can What You Wear Actually Bring Someone to Jesus?

SPEAKER_02 11:27

you know uh truly loving her. I want to make sure that she knows Jesus and you know she can spend eternity with him. Um but e even then I think a lot of it was this was back in 2013. Um at the time there you know in popular culture, at least for me, I never really recognized the pervasiveness of evil in popular culture. I think now 13 years later everybody's on it, right? And I I think partly that's the Holy Spirit. It it's very blatant, right? And it's time to choose sides. But it was at that time where I started looking at uh um I listened to a lot of hip hop. That was like my, you know, uh music of choice growing up, like in the suburbs. And uh Of course, me too. Right. And so uh I started to realize that a lot of you know the lyrics and the the the videos, it was demonic. There's no other way to put it, right? It's absolutely demonic, it's not even a conspiracy, it's not a question. So I started out of almost out of fear, right? It's like the scales were kind of taken off my eyes, and I'm starting to see this for what it is. And so then I started to uh look into there was a uh traditional FSSP mass that or uh parish that opened up near us. So I was kind of looking at that. I didn't even know that the Latin rate existed at that time, that was foreign to me. Um but it was really on um my mom, it was I I want to say it was on Easter Sunday. She had asked me if I would go to do the Divine Mercy chaplet at the local parish. And I really didn't want to go because I wasn't there yet. You know, I wasn't really looking to come back to God at that time. And she was like, please just come with me. And I was like, I don't want to go, it's just gonna be all old people and then me, right? And so, um, I don't know what made me go, the Holy Spirit, obviously. Um, my mother's pleading potentially, but um, I show up there, of course, there's like six, you know, eighty to ninety-year-olds, God bless them by the way, uh, they're beautiful people. Um and they start the Divine Mercy Chaplet, and I I still didn't want to be there. And I'm saying the chaplet very half-acidly, like just saying the words, not even thinking about it, waiting until I can get out of there. And that was the first time I felt the Holy Spirit, and I was just brought to tears. And it was a profound experience because everybody a lot of people, if you've been to adoration or you felt the Holy Spirit before, you know what that is, but I wasn't questioning what that was. It was I knew immediately that that was the Holy Spirit. And it was a f familiarity with God at that time. It was just like it wasn't even a question. I knew exactly what it was. And so that obviously just put me on fire after that. Um which also I I think about often to this day because you know, you hear God can do a lot with a little. I didn't even want to be there, right? And so he completely changed my life after that.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Um you still put yourself, you still put, you know, you you even though it was begrudgingly, you still went. Like God doesn't move parked cars. You still gotta move a little bit, at least put it in neutral and coast there, you know what I'm saying? But he's not gonna make you, you know, he's a gentleman. But you're like your mom, her pleading, her prayers, I'm sure she she was praying like uh St. Monica for for you to to return, especially when they look into the grandbaby's eyes. It's like, okay, we got to get serious here, whatever we're gonna do. And but I I felt the same thing. And I think this goes back to the conversation where we went on on a tangent. But I think that many Catholics don't haven't been open to that experience or haven't had that experience. Like they grew up their whole life in the church, you did too, and you never have had had experienced the Holy Spirit in that way. And that's what I felt when I had my conversion at midnight mass. It's like I knew right away, like this is something different. Like that this is foreign to me. And I and I wonder why God, I know God doesn't like force us, and I know faith is required to believe, you know, blessed are those who never seen and believe. I he doesn't want to overwhelm us, but he definitely should be giving us a little bit more nudges like that, you know. If he wants his church to be alive, like just you know, you don't got to appear like in a cloud of fire and a pillar of smoke, you know, but you know, touch me in my heart, make me cry, let me know how how much you love me in in that kind of way. And then just imagine if he just did that to everybody, or maybe he is, and maybe people are just their hearts are so hard, they're not open to it. So I bet you it's a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Yeah, yeah, I think about that a lot too.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Um like, or why me? What why did he why did he do this to me? Like, why me? What did I do to deserve it? I that's what I always say.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Me and my friend were talking about this not too long ago. Um, but before that, uh it's like you uh one day in adoration, uh, you just he hit me with the realization that he was there the whole time. Right? That and that is unbelievably moving, right? Because you think that he's just some guy in the sky and he's so distant, he's so intimately involved in your life, it's just you are not paying attention, right? Um but why me? I don't know. I think about that a lot, and what is the proper response to that? I think it just needs to be gratitude and reorient your life because that is a major gift, right? And that's all you can do. It's like and and trust me, God's fair. Um you know, um, I I think that probably everybody experiences nudges along the way. Um, everybody's different. I don't know that everybody gets like the gift of tears or consolations or anything like that, but you know, he's gonna give everybody what they need. We all know that.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

So and and he continues to do that. Like for me at least, it wasn't a a one and done. Like he continues to, but you know, the more you put yourself in those positions, like I was at Adoration today and went to confession today. Like, you know, and and this is like the first time I went to confession, like in like it was like maybe three or four weeks. Yeah, and I'm not patting myself on the shoulder, but I was I've been a pretty good boy. Like, I didn't really have that much to to confess other than I lost my temper a little bit with my son, but it was really bothering me. Like I was really quick to like snap on him because he dropped he dropped something. It was like it was it was so oh I overreacted so much in the moment. It was like didn't even like I just I just felt like I was my father in that instant. Like that's how my dad was to me. And I'm like, I catch myself, I'm like, I'm just like my dad, like being real quick to do, I'm like, and it just really bothered me. So I was brought to to tears also. It's like just because I I was so sad over it, and it wasn't even that big of a deal. I mean, retrospect looking back, he's a 10-year-old boy. I shouldn't have overreacted, like using my masculinity to scare a boy to yell at him because he dropped something, it's like it's a it's a uh it's the cop it's a coward move, really. And it's ultimately that I don't have control of my own emotions, and that's what was bothering me. It's like, how can I get that mad over something so small? And what am I teaching him? But I I just think that then he gave me a consolation. Okay, you know, okay, yeah, he's fair, right? He's just, but he's also very merciful. And I and and I think that the more we put ourselves in positions to be humble, is the more he wants to keep nudging us. Like I said, he's not gonna overwhelm us, but he's gonna every so often reveal his love for us in a way that's enough to sustain us.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

And I think that experience that you're talking about is the humbling thing, right? Um, you know, I snapped. This is human nature, this is gonna be uh a battle that you know you may uh deal with for the rest of your life. Everybody has their different vices. Um things, by the grace of God, you know, we can overcome, you know, immediately things that we never thought we could overcome with respect to sin, which is incredible. Other things it's it's just a struggle, you know? Um and I you know, I think a lot of people I've talked to kind of fall into a little bit of despair or hopelessness, especially when it comes to repetitive sin. And I've I've done that myself, right? Uh fallen into that, but you know, I I I tend to ask them like what would you say to someone else, right, who was experiencing you know repetitive sins. Right? You would tell them to keep trying, you wouldn't tell them to give up, right? So that's a that's a really interesting point you made there.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Yeah, it's you know, being humble is hard. Admitting, you know, we're idiots and we make mistakes is like nobody likes it in real time, you know. But uh unlike my father, when I did that to him, immediately I realized like what I just did, and I apologized and I said, We forgive me, I'm sorry. Like that was the difference. My dad would have never done that, you know, God bless him. And he's recently starting to to look into the to the church uh by his house, and I haven't really talked to him about it. But like out of nowhere, he he texted me, oh just by the way, hey uh I've been going to church. I'm like, oh I'm like, I'm like, oh, that's awesome. That's it. I just left it there. I don't want to like, you know, I don't want to ruin it, you know. I don't want to jump in too hardbeat. Like when he's ready to talk, he knows the I'm the the the one son he could talk to this about. When he's ready, you know, we could talk about it. But I was just I've been praying for him, and you know, God does answer those prayers. So he answered your prayers, right? He gave you this nudge. Divine mercy's got a big, big, uh, big part of my heart, it's part of uh my journey as well. I've been praying at the three o'clock hour. I get off work at three o'clock, so I pray it every day when I'm leaving work. It's just like it's a uh I've been doing the the rosary on the way to work and the divine mercy on the way. But the there's something about the divine mercy that um I heard it this way, which I thought was pretty interesting. Like the when we when you pray the rosary and the divine mercy every day, it's like, especially if you can't get to mass, it's like praying the mass almost. It's like the next best thing because the rosary, you're literally praying scripture. It's like the liturgy of the word. Like you're going through those things, and the prayers of divine mercy is literally the the words that a lot that we use in the liturgy uh of the Eucharist, which is, you know, we're offering up Jesus, his sacrifice, body, blood, soul, and divinity, you know, through the power of the Holy Spirit to the Father. It's like I offer you, you know, that's what Jesus that's what the Mass is. We're offering Jesus back to the Father by the power of the Holy Spirit. So it's like when you if you can't go to Mass, then try your best to pray the rosary and the divine mercy throughout the day, and you're gonna see a lot of things that are just gonna change you know in general in your life. And and the divine mercy, the promises that come with it are extraordinary.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Yeah, I and I think um just begging for God's mercy, right? It's just something I'm constantly saying all the time, right? Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah, either the Jesus prayer, uh, I say that a lot, Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me, a sinner, or Jesus, I trust in you. It's like I don't understand, but Jesus, I trust in you and help me, you know.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Those are beautiful prayers.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, as the as the priest reminded me today in confession, but I I I I quit back to him in the confessional, he's like, you know, uh you just gotta keep praying for patience. I'm like, Father, I do. That's the problem. He keeps giving me these opportunities to try to exercise the patience and I keep failing. So Yeah, you know, that's the problem. When you pray for something, he gives you opportunities to use it. And, you know, here we go, doing the same thing over again. So fast forward, you you had this uh beautiful experience in Divine Mercy. You you you went back into full-time going back to Mass every Sunday. Now, what what was the what I like to call the call within the call, right? So you're your your your marriage and being a father, that's your vocation, right? But then now you have this other calling that somehow now you're getting into making Catholic uh uh you know a parable and a company and and trying to start a movement. What was that like? How did that start? And did it feel like a call, like like this wasn't my idea? I don't know where this came from, and all of a sudden here you are now uh doing this. Uh I I see you like every day in my Facebook because here you are popping up.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

People are gonna start getting sick of me I know. They're like, get this guy. No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

I I I smile, I smile every time.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

That's by the way, that's not natural for me to get in front of a camera and talk to myself. Um sometimes I'm outside and my neighbors are looking at me like I'm a maniac.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Oh, it's funny. Oh, it's it's hilarious when I'm doing it. Like then the car they're driving by, the cars roll out. I'm like, I'm looking at them like I'm trying to make a video here, you know. Yeah. Yes, I get you.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Um yeah, so Saintly Society, that was um it, you know, in the beginning it wasn't necessarily a call. Um now I'm constantly checking myself to make sure I'm doing this for the right reasons, and that's like a daily check, right? Yeah. Oh, um, but it was a really long process because it was one of those things where I'm I'm a natural procrastinator, and I had the idea that I wanted to create Catholic apparel probably six years before I actually started trying it, right? Um and so at the time there wasn't any Catholic apparel that really existed, or at least anything that I would personally wear. Um and there was a lot of Christian apparel, right? And so I just wanted to, you know, provide a means for us to represent our faith and bring it out into the mainstream. Now, there's a ton of Catholic companies that make beautiful apparel, so it's a really nice thing to see. Um, but it was a really long process and I think, you know, when when COVID hit in 2020, had a lot of time on my hands, uh, didn't really have any experience with starting a business, running a business, uh design, right? Um, and so I taught myself um uh Adobe uh Photoshop and Illustrator, which is really challenging to work with. Uh made a couple designs that are still on the website, but they're gonna get decommissioned because they're not great because I'm an amateur. And since then I've worked with a couple different designers to make some of the things that you know are bestsellers right now that you see today. Um but yeah, it's really been um it's really been awesome because we met at the NEC and that's when I started to take it seriously. So I I tried it out during COVID, kind of fell off by the wayside, focused on my career, then picked it back up a couple years later, and when I met you at the NEC, that was an incredible experience because that's where we realized people were saying we had such a positive reception to our products. Um and it's just still surreal to this day that someone in, you know, Colorado uh is you know excited to support our business and wear our designs. Um that never gets old. It's just a really incredible feeling. But um at the NEC is really where uh we realize, oh, we might have something here.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Yeah. It was it was such a cool event, and and for us we're lucky it was in Indianapolis, so it was like two hours from our house. And but just to see like how that just how the Catholic community came together, like everybody was so happy, everybody was so like like it felt like a one big community, and then once the the you know the the Blessed Sacrament came out, it was just like just to see my son how into it he was at the time, he was like eight years old, and he looked at me and he said, Dad, I don't ever want to leave. Like he it's like, man, it was it was such a beautiful thr you know process of three years of the planning that came together, but you know, not just the vendors, but just the people from like you said, all over the country, all over the world, people came to this event, and we we have to expect that fruit is gonna come from that. So you got some reception there. So fast forward, how how has it been progressing from there? And and what what what it's you know, what's been the the the good things about it, and what are some of the the tough things?

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah, that's a good question. Um so it's progressed, right? Um we've come out with new designs. Uh I've tried my hand at you know doing meta advertisements, which you're seeing all over the place. So that's been really helpful in driving sales. Um I think one of the challenges is really the the focus on that that business because I do have a full-time job. Um and so I'm I'm really you know trying to balance my time. That's always a challenge. We're a small outfit, it's me and my wife. So, you know, uh it's everything from you know advertising to creating websites, packaging orders, fielding emails, inquiries. Um, but again, it's you know it it's grown pretty well. I mean, we're still small, but the six little amount of success that we are having has been propelling us forward. It kind of gives you that momentum to keep going. Um we've had small shops all over the country reach out to you know have our products in their stores. That's amazing. Um and so yeah, no, it's it's been really good. Uh but the challenge is is definitely the time aspect of it. I think you know, one of the great things again is just the people. Everybody is so uh amazing. When you see when someone sees one of our products and their eyes light up or they're walking by and they point at it and they're like, Jesse would love this, right? It's those moments that it's just so beautiful. Um I had a woman reach out to me just today. Her son's going to the seminary in St. Myrad's and she wanted to buy him a hat. And that's just it's just so beautiful because now we have an opportunity to pray for him. Um, you know, and and by the way, my parish priest, uh our pastor, was the spiritual director of St. Myrad's. So shout out to Father De Maria.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yeah, Southern Indiana, right? It's close not too far from us, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, so it's been uh it's been an interesting journey.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Yeah, well, being split, I know how that is, like, you know, doing two podcasts and doing these two all the social media stuff. I work full-time and my wife's it's like then it's just like okay, but you also have a family, you have all these other responsibilities, it's sports, and and it's hard. But it's like when you're doing it for the Lord, you find a different gear sometimes. So tell us a little bit about the mission. You know, it's you know, that was part of why, you know, I was really like, I wanted to help this guy because I'm behind the mysteries. Like, it's it's one thing, hey, I just want to sell some hats and some t-shirts. It's another that you know, somebody wants to evangelize the culture through hats and through shirts, like having obviously great quality, right? I you know, you guys have been seeing me wearing uh this Agnes Day or the Ave Maria hats. Like I wear them everywhere I go. Like if I if I go to the bar of my friends, I'm wearing it at the bar. And then someone's gonna ask me, oh, what's that? Oh, really? Did you just open up the door for me to tell you what it is? So explain to everybody else your kind of vision about how to evangelize the culture through through what we wear.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Yeah, so I I mean it is evangelization by bringing this to the mainstream, right? You're wearing a hat right now that says Anyuse Dei, Miserere Nobis, uh, you know, Lamb of God, have mercy on us. We just that is a prayer. You are wearing a prayer right now. Um when you're walking down the street, anybody who sees you, when they read that, they just said a prayer, right? And like I said, God can do a lot with a little. And so that's an opening. Not only that, I've had many Catholics at these events say, What does this mean? Right? So it's an opportunity to not just evangelize to non-Catholics, but to further, you know, uh help others deepen their faith and their understanding, right? Um so so it it's really about you know getting Catholicism into the mainstream and evangelizing at the same time because you know, all these other companies who don't necessarily share the same values as we share, you know, Nike, you have no problem wearing that. Yeah, right, right. So they're out there, they're doing it, and they're supporting initiatives and organizations that we don't agree with, right? And so it's really important that we have a counter, you know, to that. And so that's part of the uh the the idea, the mission.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

And I I can't tell you how many people have stopped me to to ask me where did I get that from or what's going on, and it's just like but you know, we we just don't we it's Catholics, we haven't really had much of of that to to to offer to the world, like you know, but uh our Protestant brothers and sisters have been wearing all kinds of you know different you know, different shirts, or then you know the chosen got really big, but it's nice to see actual Catholic hats, Catholic shirts. Um and it's one of those things like but it's also quality. Like I I have like 50 hats, like I love hats, I like a bald head, I'm always wearing hats because it's just this it's just a lot easier when you got when you got no hair, right? And it's just like I I'm I just like the way they look. Like and like I said, it it gives me an opportunity also to you know to to talk to other people when they when they ask about it, especially other Catholics, because that they just don't a lot of lot of they don't know like okay, oh this is out there, they're not really you know on social media, uh, you know, most of the people in your parishes and stuff like that. But it's like okay, so how how can we you know keep up with the culture? We can't have we we can't be lame, you know, we can't be out there trying to be lame, like it can't be hokey, right? I think the Latin is cool, like that's coming back to traditional is like cool again. So you you have that going for you know for for most of the stuff. And then you got dad hats and um you know the Ave Maria, and you also have women's shirts and sweatshirts. My wife, she uh and my daughter, uh my daughter took the one shirt, my wife took the sweatshirt, and because my daughter's name is Avery Marie. So she's like, that's my shirt. I'm a that's why why we named her Avery Marie, she's our Ave Maria, you know. So it's like um but I think what if a 13-year-old girl thinks it's cool, you know, we're we're getting somewhere. We're doing you're doing something right, and and I I think we shouldn't have to be like, you know, our tagline of the podcast is normalizing Catholicism. You know, we don't have to be weird, we don't have to do anything else other than the things we're already doing. You're already wearing uh all kinds of shirts and things like that, and the designs are great and and it's good quality as long as we do that. It doesn't have to be the only thing you wear. You know what I'm saying? It's like, yeah, you can still wear your other stuff, but have that in your back pocket. Like if you're going to you know a city fest or you're you know you're going somewhere where you're gonna be around a bunch of people, you're gonna put yourself in a position where people can ask you about it, and then that gives you the opportunity. You know, that's why I love, you know, like you know, whatever wherever you fall on the tattoos thing, right? You know, I have all my tattoos are religious. You know, so it's like, okay, when someone says, Oh, I like your tattoos, I immediately go into showing them like, oh yeah, this is the Blessed Mother, you know, this is the the Pelican, you know, this is on our tabernacles and and our altars, and hey, I got Kiri Lee son and I got St. Benedict's medal. And it's like whatever one they point at and like, I'll go into some kind of way to talk about the faith. And it's just a way to open up the door, and obviously I like them, I think they're cool, but what uh each his own, and like you know, um and and uh we were talking before we started. I and I have that St. Michael's that same awesome uh uh painting that you have. I have it on there because there's something about like St. Michael too to the culture. Like there's this, like you you said, there's this evil. Like people are recognizing that there's evil, and just by that, people, okay, well, there's the good. Like, okay, so this is what we have to offer. Might as well be apparel, might as well be, you know, like television shows, it might as well be those things that we used to have, but now we have to step back into the place because there's been a vacuum, and we and when the you know, we know when there's a vacuum, nature aboards a vacuum. So what's gonna come into that vacuum is gonna be other people who are gonna try to put their names on on our chest or their products and things like that, or same with the movies, then the you know, the satanic things come in and the music. So it's good to see that high-quality, you know, apparel companies, right? And and good quality television shows and movies are are really starting to, you know, from Angel Studios and on, that the culture uh we we can't expect uh the the culture to just, you know, they want to make money. So if we support them, good Catholic companies, so you know, it could be worth your time to do it, that it's worthwhile. You get a full-time job and family. So just if we want more of these things, we have to put our money where that's at so we can continue to have those things. You like, you know, uh Cabrini, you thought that was good, but you didn't go to the show to go see it and support them, you can't expect them to make another Catholic movie. I know Mel Gibson will do fine on this new one, the Passion of the Christ did so great. But some of these smaller uh outfits, like we definitely as Catholics need to rally around and to try to help support those who are trying to evangelize through the culture.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

I really appreciate you saying that because you know, as a small business and a small Catholic business, you know, I I it it's not about competition. It shouldn't be about competition. Um and so that's why you always gotta kind of check yourself. Am I doing this the right way? I think all of these Catholic businesses should should be propping each other up. I know there's a couple different uh apps or marketplaces out there that are specific to Catholics. Um but I've been thinking about that a lot. What are ways where we can kind of band together as small Catholic businesses and and and promote each other's products? I don't care if you wear my product, right? As long as if it's glorifying God or if it's evangelizing someone, that's a beautiful thing. I don't even care if saintly society doesn't work out. If that's the Lord's will, great. You know, if it's not, well, he's got my best interest in mind. And so I've been thinking uh uh about ways to do that uh in you know, on top of not just a marketplace, because that exists, those are great. Um, but even in the social media space, just because that's where everybody's at right now, I think everybody's kind of doing their own thing. I'm trying to think of ways to kind of bring everybody together.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Well, I think you're doing a great job. And like I said, I'm gonna anytime you come out with anything new, you get anything else, you shoot me a message. I I I I'll I'll love to either sport it or get it out there because like I said, I I think it's important. I I want my kids to to remain Catholic. I want them to think it's cool, you know. They already think they're at the age now they think dad's kind of lame now, you know. It's like, okay, well, I gotta try to get you know, the kids say the aura back, you know. I'm like, hey, I'm like, dad's still got it, you know, but they they like the gear, so that that that's a good start.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

No, but I have a 13-year-old daughter too. She's definitely the litmus test.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

So yeah, so it's see you understand. Like, yeah, she's uh we're scrapping it. Yeah, that that's it's smart because why not market test? You know, why like you know, we can get in our echo chambers and we you know the what I like, like my wife, she's always like, well, I don't like that. I'm like, well, you're weird. Like yeah, I'm not taking just you, like you're you're like very like, you're not like everybody else. She's not she's not like anybody else I've ever met. So I'm like, you gotta understand, you're not like everybody else. Like, I don't like this and I don't like that. I'm like, that's you, like, but like, yeah, ask my daughter, like she represents like the average 13-year-old girl. Like you, you know, my wife's she's a saint. Gotta love her. But like, yeah, she's um, she gives me hard time about you know, still listening to to certain rap songs. I'm like, I'm like, Katie, I'm like, I don't even listen to the words. It's more about the beat.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

The beat more about like it's always about the beat for me, too.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

It's like I I don't care what they're saying. Like, I you like that song's so degrading to women. I'm like, oh, is it? I don't know. I'm like, I'm not really paying, I'm not like I don't memorize the words. It's like I'm driving or like, you know, or I'm I'm working out at the gym or something like that. Like, other than that, that's about it, you know. So well, Michael, thank you so much for taking the time. Where can everybody find you? What's the uh what's the best way to find Saint Lee Society?

SPEAKER_02 39:13

Yeah, so www.saintley society.com. That's all one word. And then we're also on Instagram at Saintly underscore society.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Nice. And uh I in the descriptions, I'll share everything there too, and then once uh we we get this episode up, we'll uh we'll link to all the the socials. So Michael, I appreciate it, man. Thanks for taking the time and uh really do uh appreciate you making the sacrifice to try to uh bring this uh to the masses with all the sacrifice working a full time job and trying to be a full time dad. So appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Well, I appreciate you and thanks for having me, man. It's always good chatting with you.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Yeah, you too. All right, God bless.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

God bless, brother.