Have you ever wondered whether the problems in the world today would exist? If we had deeper connection to ourselves, others and the environment and acted from that place. Welcome
Brian Berneman:to the conscious action podcast with your host, Brian Berneman and Kayla Greenville, who believed that connection is the. Key to taking conscious action as individuals and creating a better world.
Lucy Butler:We're here to raise awareness and inspire meaningful action by sharing stories, knowledge and conversations with thought leaders and change
Brian Berneman:makers from sustainability to wellbeing and everything related to conscious living. Our mission is to empower you to be the change that you want to see in the world. Welcome everyone to a new episode of the conscious action podcast. I am Brian, Berneman your host. Um, for this episode, I have the pleasure to be joined all the way from here in golden bay, New Zealand, uh, by Lucy, Badr from health post. And first of all, Lucy, thank you so much for taking the time for being here with us and for everyone listening. Can you share a little bit about you? Who is Lucy?
Lucy Butler:sure. Well, thanks Brian, for having me on the podcast, it's a pleasure to be here and to talk with you. Uh, I am so I'm Lucy Butler, I'm the, um, and director and sustainability lead for health post, which is an online wellbeing retailer. That's based here in golden bay. Um, we do have offices in Auckland. As well. Um, we've been in the natural wellbeing, sustainability space. Now for more than 30 years, my mom founded the business back in 1988 when obviously online wasn't a thing. Um, but accessibility of natural wellbeing products really was, um, a thing in, in the eighties. It was really difficult for people, particularly in rural communities, uh, and an affordable price. Really? It. You know, to be able to get natural wellbeing products was, was a real challenge here in New Zealand in the eighties. So that was something that mom herself was struggling with. She was rehabilitating her health from, um, you know, severe health conditions that she'd experienced through raising young children and things. And, um, yeah, just found that she wasn't actually able to afford, she was on a benefit at that stage. Um, and you know, she just wasn't able to afford the products that she needed. Um, and through her independent research had determined would be really beneficial for, um, for rebuilding her own wellbeing. So she started ordering those in, um, in bulk and sharing them out around the community. And basically the business grew from there because there really was this untapped need in terms of accessibility of natural health. So, yeah, and then obviously the evolutions through. You know, through the decades with the advent of online and, um, yeah, I guess the next generation, my brothers, um, you know, at the helm at the moment of the business has been for a long time, we've shared that role on and off over the years. Um, yeah, so I, I got involved in the family business again, actually, uh, after coming back to golden bay, about 10 years ago, I was, um, in academia before that in Australia. So it was quite a change for me to be. Back in the world of business. Um, but I had been raised in that both my parents are entrepreneurs in the natural wellbeing space. My father has several, um, businesses in that, um, space as well, working with New Zealand, native herbs, um, among other, among other things. So, so yeah, it wasn't unfamiliar, but it was certainly a sea change. And then have combined that over the last sort of decade. Raising children and gardening and, you know, living, I guess, um, the lifestyle that you, you come to golden bay for as much as possible as well, trying to keep those things in balance. So, yeah, that's an interesting, it's an interesting time. I think the conversations, um, you know, have evolved so much even in the teen years that, that I've been. um, you know, doing this work around, obviously sustainability wellbeing, um, you know, holistic decision making really, and, and both in people's personal lives and collectively in the business space. So it feels like, um, yeah, quite an exciting time to be doing what we're doing.
Brian Berneman:Yeah. That's so beautiful. And I think it's so interesting, you know, how, of course we go through different stages in our lives and. I'm I'm interested to know Lucy a little bit on, on growing up. Did you have as well, this, um, kind, kind of similar views on this value based living in terms of wellbeing and sustainability, uh, especially once, uh, your mom studied health post, but was that a part of your life person?
Lucy Butler:it was, I think, um, if I think about the values, I guess that have, you know, that I guess are in common to both of my parents and have determined, um, you know, to some extent the foundation of, of what health post and, and our other natural products, businesses have been built on it is really around, um, You know, absolutely our respect for natural products, a passion for plants, um, both are exceptionally keen gardens have incredible gardens and orchards and things, which they tend with. Um, great attention and yeah, I think, you know, it wasn't until I was a teenager that I kind of realized that wasn't necessarily that typical, you know, to be moving through the. The Bush and talking about the plants and looking at them and, and wondering what they are, or, or, you know, naming them, how they're having that level of engagement. So I think that was a very strong theme through, um, my upbringing and the other one, I guess, that I sort of see is quite foundational is really quite a critical thinking. I mean, both my. Parents came to golden bay and as part of that alternative movement in the seventies. And I think that they've just, and if I think about, you know, the books on the shelves and the conversations they approach to life in general, um, you know, there was just a constant questioning curiosity about, um, you know, the why things and looking to that deeper level, you know, not sort of necessarily accepting a face. Value, um, story. So I think that was another, you know, strong thread that did feed into the, the creation of the business, because it's like, okay, well, there's this paradigm that, that I could be looking at in terms of treating my health, others, treating their health. And that's, that's great, but you know, what else is there outside of? That, you know, and, and if it felt a little bit inaccessible or it felt a bit, you know, off the mainstream, probably so much the better for my, for my folks, you know, it only made them all more curious to kind of take the lid off and start seeing, you know, what's what's in there. So I think, um, And it's hard to remember to some extent. I mean, I have to remind myself now that, you know, it was a lot more of a niche thing, you know, back back then in the eighties and, and nineties, you know, to be using alternative so-called medicines and, um, you know, natural wellbeing and to be taking a more inquiring approach to some of the, this sort of thing. So, um, yeah, so I think certainly whilst the conversations around. Um, you know, the environment and sustainability have obviously evolved enormously over that time. And I, and I don't, you know, I mean, there was that. Different wave of ecological awareness, I guess, coming out of the seventies, eighties, you know, we had loads of whole earth catalogs and you know, this sort of, uh, yeah, I just actually pulled, visited the old family at home, which is a, a herb farm, um, organic her farm. That's. Not far from where I live here in golden bay, which, which is still in the, in the family and found a very silver fish eaten. Um, copy of, Ram's be here now, dad read in India, seventies. So I've took that. I that's a good little bit of, um, memorabilia from my, my childhood and, you know, those values that were foundational for the businesses. And I guess us as a.
Brian Berneman:Mm, that's so beautiful. And I think, you know, it, it's really interesting because I grew up with holistic medicine as well. I grew up with, with homeopathy and preventative, uh, medicine Androy and, and for me, kind of like. I noticed whilst I was growing up like, oh, this is not what, you know, my friends are doing. This is not such a common thing. Like, and I think it's really interesting for me as well, the, the, the views and that you were sharing as well on, on wellbeing from a holistic standpoint, this is something like on conscious action that we, we focus on is. Mm, connection of wellbeing for ourselves. For others and for nature and how the, the connection is there, like what we do for our bodies and what we do for the earth and what we do for each other. Like it can all be together, like flowing in the same direction for that to happen yet. Most of us as individuals and as society, we have been disconnected from that. And therefore it's harder to, to maintain a sense of wellbeing because we have lost that. And it's so important to be able to. To find the businesses and organizations that are purpose driven and are values driven that can see that. Um, so I wonder if you can talk a little bit more from HealthPost and, and the work that has been happening for now 30. In terms of, of that seeing the values and, and how they are connected.
Lucy Butler:Sure, sure. Yeah. No, I think, um, You know, as you were talking that the word holistic, you know, that's something that I find that the conversations that I'm having with, you know, our marketing team and things. Now, it's still a word that for me really has currency, you know, and I know it's got its roots back and, you know, the kind of the culture that, that more alternative culture that we're talking about. But, but I actually think, you know, just that capturing. Of approaching every decision in the, in the round. You know, it's not just about, what's gonna be profitable. You know, there has to be these other stakeholders around the table. And that's, I guess what I mean about it being an exciting time, because it feels like now there are these, these really kind of becoming really well respected frameworks and B equals one that, that we love and our, our own brand, um, bio balance brand. Natural wellbeing products was the first supplement brand in a Australasia to become B Corp certified three or four years ago. And because we were just really keen to, to support that, um, you know, that certificate gaining sort of certification gaining currency in this part of the world, because it is that really holistic, uh, way of looking N indeed, you know, requires that you actually mean your company constitution to. To be, to be, um, yeah, really putting. All of those factors into play. Every time you're making a decision. And I feel like that's what we've done at health post kind of instinctively for a long time. And we are now going through that B Corp certification process for health post, which is a huge piece of work because we're, we, um, have, you know, A lot of third party brands, five and a half thousand products. So, you know, to be able to bring the level of, um, transparency and, and things that are required to, to meet that, that bar, um, across the range, we've already done a huge amount of that work for ourselves over the last few years, anyway, which is a great head start in terms of, you know, um, the conversations that we've been having with suppliers, the level of, um, you know, transparency we expect from them and, and stuff. Definitely a lot higher than the industry than the industry norm, you know, but it's still another thing to put all of that work together to present to a third party. So we are working our way through that, but, but we are already committed to that because of that holistic decision making that we're, that we are talking about, you know, and, um, I think in some ways it's being rooted in a small community for, you know, for decades now you really are connected to. The fact that you don't make decisions in isolation. You know, we, we are in the same place. We're literally stones. I mean, we've changed premises three or four times now, but all within literally a few hundred meters, you know, and, um, on the sort of hill above, above Collwood, you know, which is in itself a tiny coastal village, um, and you know, the community as well. It's a small, it's a small community, you know, so both in taking the environment and the community and their wellbeing into consideration, I. Comes quite naturally when you write sitting right there accountable through the consequences of, of your decisions directly and immediately accountable, you not just gonna change jobs, would you, you know, it's not very easy in the part of the world, you know, you're not gonna walk away. It's, it's a much just naturally looking at things through a longer. Longer lens. So, um, yeah, so I think that's, that's helped keep us connected to that. And yeah, as I say, just really, um, pleased that there's so much more conversation happening around that, for instance, in the governance space. Now, you know, this real encouragement to look at. Um, you know, the responsibilities as being beyond, um, return to shareholders, you know, in the traditional sense, it's just, I mean, I mean, it's kind of unbelievable that it's taken this long to, to get there. And even then, you know, it's just pockets where this is, this is coming up and being talked about, but it seems. There's a momentum that's building and obviously the work that you are doing Brian and, and so many others, um, you know, is just helping to feed into fuel that, that momentum, which is, um, yeah, which is obviously so, so powerful and important. And I think, um, in terms of. Our customers as well. We are so fortunate to have such and have had for a very long time, such an engaged, inquiring, mindful customer. Base. So we're, you know, they, they are wonderful for holding us to account for all of our decisions, you know, like we know that they want to know and they give us incredibly thoughtful, um, feedback on decisions that we make the products, what we are ranging, what we're not ranging, you know? So we've got this continual conversation happening. Um, that's really helping us to, um, yeah, just stay, stay the course, I guess when it has been, cuz we've been through some huge competitive challenges, particularly in the. You know, a couple of years with like cist warehouse, Aussie, giant coming in, you know, doing an aggressive expansion in New Zealand and things, you know, and there is some overlap, you know, we, we are listening that overlap and, and that kind of works for us cause we prefer to support, um, you know, smaller. Kiwi Australian brands where possible anyhow. Um, but you know, that said it's a, it's a major competitive challenge and it's really taking its toll on the natural products industry in New Zealand. So, um, you know, we feel really. Kind of grateful that we've got our own thing going on and that we have team and customers that just are continuing to back us to do things differently. Yeah.
Brian Berneman:And that's so beautiful. And I think, you know, from, from the things that you just mentioned, there's a couple of things that I want to touch on. Like the first thing is, as you're saying, there's this momentum building in terms of understanding. What businesses are and what's their, their place in the ecosystem of our society. And as you were saying for far too long, it has been profit, uh, and shareholders focused, uh, Yet it's, uh, from seeing that, as you're saying that holistic point of view, understand the stakeholders and understand, as you're saying, the connection with your community, the people that live there, your employees, your, you know, like your. Customers everyone has a role and has a, a place in it. And, and the more that businesses start to look at that from that standpoint, I think that the better it's going to, to be in, in the long run. And, and of course that. Might mean that for some businesses, the, the profit might drop a little bit. And I think that this is the interesting space because when, when business actually cares and has certain values and standards, that might mean at some moment where the profit might not be as high as we could maximize it. But. It's that the purpose of the existence of that business. so I think it's, it's really interesting to be able to, to see this shift that it's slowly happening.
Lucy Butler:yeah, no 100%. And I think that's been, um, you know, one of the things about being a closely held family company is that we actually do get to sit around, you know, we do have external, um, directors, and, but we essentially fundamentally get to sit around and say, you know, why exactly that, well, why out, what is the purpose? You know, if we shrink a bit, if we're doing, you know, what, what value are we creating? What does this actually mean? As a family, you know, we we've been, yeah. I guess we've been lucky with our ownership structure and things that we've been able to, to do that really quite regularly. And it's not to say that we always agree or that that's always an easy conversation, particularly when we are having to respond to what's going on, you know, in the market and the wider world. But, um, but fundamentally we can all get around the table and have that conversation in a. Gritty way. Um, so I think that's, you know, that's been really helpful. Um, yeah. And there's a couple of other things, you know, that I'd sort of say to that as well. I think something that we are increasingly, and I kind of really wanna share this because, and I, I try to as much as, as possible actually with our various partners and, and things. I feel like for businesses, just the benefit. I know this is talked about, but we are really feeling this so profoundly now in our, in our business, the benefit of attracting and retaining talented people when you are so clearly values and purpose. Driven. I mean, we are so fortunate with the team that we have, you know, they would be absolutely snapped up among, you know, range of other org organizations and have often come from larger organizations or have come from in potentially more lucrative positions in, in some instances. But, you know, have come. To us because they believe in what we're doing and they wanna be a part of, of amplifying that. And in the work that those people do is just, is just so wonderful, you know, because they've actually come to you for those reasons, with a whole lot of skills that they've gained across different. Environments, um, and you know, in this sort talent shortage, you know, that's a, really a, quite a profound, competitive advantage that I think, you know, even if people are just looking at this and sort of, you know, in economic terms, these things are hard to quantify, but, but our experiences that they are very real. Um, that's yeah. So from that, I mean, I think people think about it from a customer perspective, but not necessarily as much from a team perspective on what a difference. That makes, so it's not just who you attract, but it's how they work for you and how they work with you when there's, you know, when there is that clear bedrock of values and purpose, and, and that's the foundation of, if your relationship with them as an employee, you know, it's quite a game changer.
Brian Berneman:Yeah, definitely. And I think that more and more, um, people are realizing that they want to be part of something that aligns with their values. And it's not just about the money. I mean, Um, there's a movement towards that in, in terms of workers that not only from like workers, but customers, like people want to know more, people want to, to be part or to engage with businesses and organizations that align with their own values. People are asking more questions in terms of that. And I think that the movement is towards that. And I think it's so important. to understand as well as, as businesses and organizations, how you take care of your team, how you take care of your employees and, and your workers actually that's the first line because they are your, they are first customers in a sense, like they are the ones that then are going to be facing. Customers are at least some of them, they're the ones that are in relationship with the suppliers. They are the ones that are going to be the champions of your business. And, and it's so important to be able to, to create and to foster an environment that that is all of the time. Trying to improve and trying to, um, create the growth as people and as communities, and to be able to, to bring that as well. Like I know that, uh, like you as an employer are also like living wage, uh, and, and giving that, that not only like, from. That perspective is giving people like, uh, better footing in terms of the financial space, but as well that enables people to, to be more part of the team and to be able to thrive there.
Lucy Butler:absolutely. Yeah, no, that's right. And that, and that was a, it was a great milestone to get that living wage, you know, we'd been, we've been doing it for a while, but to actually again, get the certification and just get behind these bodies and organizations that are, you know, promoting these really valuable, um, yeah. Structures, I guess, for people, for consumers to recognize, um, you know, what businesses and products do actually reflect their, their personal values. So I know that that's great to be a part of. And I think in terms of, you know, what you're saying about the team, I, I mean, I couldn't agree more. We've got a really great culture at health post, and obviously that's down to, you know, every single. Member of our organization that helps to create that very caring, um, culture, you know, it's a, quite a caring, nurturing, you know, um, kind of feel, I think, um, where everyone's looking after each other's wellbeing at that very, you know, thats just sort of simple human. How are you level? Um, yeah. And also in terms of yeah, when you have, I mean, it's like you say, it kind of builds, it builds on itself. You know, it becomes a virtuous cycle, I guess, because when you have a team that are with you on your values and that's why they're there, and that's what, that's what, you know, They associate an respect from you. Well, you better not let them down., you know, like you wanna keep raising that. You wanna keep raising that bar. You know, you really have, again, that immediate, um, accountability. It's like, well, you know, these people are gathered for you with you giving their time. Um, and it's obviously the same with customers as well. It's just even more immediate with your, with your team, you know, then you wanna be rewarding their. High expectations in you as a business and be using that energy to keep actually. Improving and, you know, they'll, you know, the team is, is outspoken. That that's what they do expect, you know, and, um, as they, as they should, you know, so I think that's, that is a powerful thing. Um, a small sort of anecdote, I guess, around that we. When we first brought in our range, um, sort of formal range standards about three years ago now. Um, and you know, with our sort of lengthy read list of ingredients and things you invented, the whole was a huge piece of work that was led by, um, you know, a natural health expert and other natural paths. Uh, and yeah, we. The result of this, of this work and this research that, that Liz, um, lead and spent a lot of time on, um, was a number of product deletions. And some of those were pretty unpopular, you know, with customers and with team in the sense that people use these products, they like these products. There might have been, you know, some. Preservative or chemical sunscreen agent or something in there, you know, an otherwise natural product, but you know, it, wasn't going to make the grade of the standards that we decided to set and, and, you know, they're not set in stone. It's a constant evolving, as new research comes to light, you know, we, we prepared to adjust and reconsider, but, um, but you know, fundamentally this was our stake in the ground at this point in, in time. And, and we keep, you know, trying to kind of raise the, the bar on that. But, you know, that was, uh, it didn't meet, you know, it's pretty inconvenient when the, the product that you love was revealed to. Less than as great as we thought it was. And they thought it was. And, um, you know, particularly for our contact center and things who didn't have the job, you know, as well as our marketing team and whatnot, you know, communicating, okay. You're not get these products anymore. Um, you know, there's a bit of pain involved in that at sort of the end of that first wave of that process. We came together for our 30th anniversary, birthday celebrations. And the thing that the team were most proud of was that. Piece of work and the product deletions, even those who didn't. Who might have even been quite happy to go and use that product or buy that product elsewhere. They weren't, it wasn't necessarily because they exactly shared that value. If you know what I mean of, you know, needing to have that particular product at this level of being chemical free, it was more that they were working for an organization, or this was the field that, that, that they got up, you know, working for an organization that was prepared to delete a profitable product. On the basis of values, you know, so it was that sense of, and that for me was, is something that I haven't forgotten because it's, it's like, you don't have to, everybody's gonna have a different set of, none of us are exactly the same when it comes to the values that we bring to making a, a purchase. It's not even about necessarily having to have exact alignment or having to be perfect for having to get it right across all of these things that is so important and resonant for people. That businesses are making decisions on something other than what is going to be profitable, you know, and that resonates with people much more deeply than the specificity of that individual decision. If you know what I mean? Yes,
Brian Berneman:definitely. And, and I really appreciate when. Organizations and businesses are actually not only actively doing this, but are also, um, transparent in sharing, you know, like, I, I really like, um, the fact that you are as a business, you're trying to do better, better for people, better for the environment, better for. Everything. And, and the fact that better is not a fixed thing. It's just you, as you're saying, like you keep on learning, keep on improving there's new research, then you take action on that. And I think that when, as a business, as you're sharing, you have that in, in your values and your purpose to do better. And to be able to do that, then people will get, uh, will get that. You know, it's not, as you're saying, not everyone has the same values, not everyone is going to share the same views. And those perhaps are not your customers then like that's perfectly okay. And I, and I want to get, listen to something that we haven't talked about much yet, which is in terms of doing better and the values, nature, and our environment. Um, can you share a little bit on what. HealthPost is doing in terms of that, because for me, like that's the part of wellbeing that I was telling at the very beginning, like wellbeing for us with know what products or what we are nourishing our bodies with, but as well, how does that impact our environment?
Lucy Butler:Sure. Sure. Um, so yeah, no, absolutely. So starting with, I guess, in connection to that sort of fundamental work that we do around, you know, the vetting and creation of our range and things. Absolutely any ingredients that are considered to be potentially harmful for our environment. That is one of the standards that our whole range undergoes. So I think fundamentally, you know, there is, there is a lot of value in actually providing, you know, alternative products that are, that are much lighter on the environment. Um, also, and that extends to packaging. Things like that as well. And then being able to have a positive influence on our brand partners and, and within the industry, you know, because we've been doing this for a while now, you know, having, um, you know, brands come to us and ask us that, you know, they wanting to reformulate their range to actually remove, you know, some of these, um, environmental question, the ingredients and things as well, which is fantastic, or they're repackaging and wanting to know, you know, we are kind of building up, I guess, a, a resource. And again, thanks to. Generosity of, you know, and an array of experts and, and other people on the journey and other organizations who've schooled us and shared their, their knowledge. So it's certainly, um, You know, a team effort, but it feels really good to be able to connect the dots between that work that's happening in the sustainability space and the people who are making the products and be, um, providing them with advice on what, at this point in time, like you say, it's a continual, um, imperfect progression, uh, are environmentally, you know, more, um, friendly options. So, so there's that. And then there's additional, um, Work that we do here in our community and, um, with our, with our carbon and things like that as well. So I'm happy to talk a little bit more about, about that. Um, so in 2017, we founded the health post nature trust. We'd run a donation program for a decade or so before that giving money monthly to, um, a range of environmental and humanitarian. Organizations based on our customers choices. So we donated from our operating profit, but we, um, gave our customers, you know, selection of, of causes that they could choose from that checkout. So to help guide where that money went. So we'd, we'd run that for about 10 years and supported a load of really awesome, um, organizations. And some of those relationships we maintain and still work, work with people like project Jonah and, and others that we'd supported through that program that. We've, you know, stayed connected and do work with them still. Um, but yeah, we really wanted something that was tangible here in our local community that our team would get involved with. That would be more of a long running project where we really had, again, heaps of transparency around where our money was going and what it was being used for. And that we could. You know, share that information with our, our team and our customers. And, and certainly the golden bay based team could, you know, experience that firsthand as well. So we partnered with the department of conservation and the local, um, and. Established, uh, restoration project, uh, for the FAQ Farwell, um, spit on Tahoe area. And, um, yeah, we've been working on that ever since that gathered a lot of momentum. We established, uh, predator proof ECOS at cake Farwell. We've got the far ECOS and we're planning for our first wave of, um, translocations of threatened seabird checks of fluttering and dished. She water. Um, you know, applications are in process for that we've taken. Expert advice over the last couple of years in the planning stages. And again, I like to form relationships with, um, both a great base of community volunteers, which have been maintaining track lines. And, um, yeah, we are doing a lot of planting. Our team's been involved in doing a lot of, um, planting and revegetation in the area as well. And, uh, yeah, we're looking forward to getting. Getting some seabirds back to the mainland. It's a really significant and diverse area, uh, there at the tip of the south for, um, for waiting seabirds for, um, the, the Nelson green GCO for various other plant and animal species. But it's been pretty degraded from a conservation perspective. And it's been really interesting for me growing. Having grown up here and always having no one, I mean, it's hugely tourist. It all was pretty COVID. Um, you know, and it's spectacular as it is now, but I guess I'd never had, I'd never imagined what it would've been like. Mm-hmm , you know, when it was teaming with life, when it was. Vegetated even, you know, it's, it's bare farmland, it's actively farmed. Um, you know, so, and, but that, that said the, the families holders are family supportive and working with us and, and we've been fencing off areas and things, and that've actually contributed financially to the project too. So there's been a lot of community willingness from outta businesses and, and local. People which has been hugely appreciated, but also, um, conservation experts from around New Zealand as well, who, you know, may be interested in a particular species or contributing somewhere or another to, um, both the planning and the, the building of knowledge and. The area as to how it can best be restored. So yeah, seeing mate was my father. Um, Peter's kind of concept initially and it seemed very ambitious again, because we all knew this land just as it was like spectacular, but, but Barron, uh, but yeah, we were really, you know, the department participation really got on board and yeah, the, the wider community. So. That's. Yeah, that's exciting. We've got a field station at fair that where we are funding. We've got some researchers coming down from Victoria university who are doing their second year of study that we are, we are funding on insect life in the area in particular, um, you know, natural methods of control of the paper was, yeah, we, we feel like it's in, it's in a good place and we have a commitment. Annually of a minimum of a hundred thousand dollars plus, um, you know, time and resources from our team to, to go toward that project, which I think has been great in terms of allowing other people or giving other people the impetus to contribute. Because I think so often, you know, without a kind of like a baseline to be able to keep a project going and to, to know that that, you know, there's gonna be able to be some momentum maintain that's, um, you know, it's a bit hard for people to get on board, so yeah. We've yeah. Already benefited from other generous contributions of, of time and money and, uh, really look forward to seeing some of what is possible. There really, it's been a lot of laying the groundwork at this, at this stage, but yeah, it feels it, yeah, it's been amazing for me because I don't, my, my background is in humanities and arts and, you know, I, I don't, I came to, I am a trustee of the health post nature trust, um, particularly in terms. Creating that linkage, I guess, without health post customers and our, our values and team, um, working within the business. But for me, you know, from the other trustees and, and others that we've worked with, it's been, so it's been such an education in environmentalism conservation. What is possible? You know, I've really had my eyes opened, I think over the last two or three years to, um, Just how far, how, I guess how far backwards we've gone, but also also, uh, you know, absolutely awed by the commitment of people that have been doing this for decades. Mm-hmm now. So yeah, it's felt quite, quite a privilege to be exposed to, to that kind of environmental yeah. Activism and, and wisdom, I guess. And I think it's really help helping us as a business now to, you know, to just be embedding that in a more, uh, informed way into everything that
Brian Berneman:we're. Yes, that's so beautiful because I, I do think, you know, that being able to, to see how the environment and nature is, is part of, of everything. And, and not only as you're saying, like from, uh, the products that you're used that need to have certain standards from. They're impacting the environment, but also to be able to, to share with your community, um, with people there actually doing work, connecting them to the land and to grading spaces for the regeneration of, of. What has been lost because of the practices that we've been doing as society. And we need to get back to regenerating the lands and to be able to, as, as here, what you're doing, like bringing your. Community altogether and replanting natives and creating Aries and creating these spaces that that enable for, for the change to happen. Because I think that as, as you know, as business having the, the view, that holistic view that, that you're mentioning in terms of, you know, where things come from, but also what can you do afterwards? It's, it's a really interesting time for businesses, for me, in terms of, you know, understanding footprint and understanding impact as well. Because in terms of the footprint, a lot of times with carbon, we can, as businesses, we can offset it. But also we can go beyond that and we can start to regenerate and we can start to do things. So I think it's, it's something that it's so wonderful to see businesses like yours that are driven with those values and are actively doing things. Um, so yeah, like I just wanted to, to say that because I think that it's really important to showcase as well to others. What's. And the way forward to create that momentum that we were talking before about. And Lucy, I'm interested. If you can share a little bit more there's now I know at this moment for the ones that are listening to this, now, when this episode is coming out for the next few months, help post doing this campaign in our nature. Can you share a little bit about that? What's what's happening and, and why are you doing. Sure.
Lucy Butler:Sure. Thanks, Brad. Um, yeah, so we, so the nature trust work that we've just talked a little bit about, um, you know, we, as we are at a kind of pivotal point there with, on the brink of these reintroductions of the species and things that we've worked and planned toward collectively for a few years now. Um, so that's part of, you know, the impetus. We've been and not in part, obviously on the basis of that nature trust, where we have been shortlisted for the sustainable business awards in, um, the categories of restoring nature and social impact. So, um, you know, wanting to, to recognize that, and we have. You know, pretty active, enthusiastic members of the sustainable business network. And really, and I think I've sort of touched on this already in terms of talking about our range and things really see the value in a partnership approach or not just the value, but the absolute necessity of a partnership approach to all of these, these, um, issues. So I. Yeah. Having an opportunity to talk about what we are doing, which we haven't done a great deal of. So it's been quite interesting having, and again, to sort of go back a little bit, having team now who are coming to us for our, for our values and going, Hey guys, like this is. What you're doing is amazing. This is so far beyond what, anything that I've seen in any organization that I've worked in, you know, but I don't get that from your website or I don't, I'm not, you know, hearing you talking about that. So we've had this real encouragement from within, I guess, the organization to lift up some of these messages. Um, so that's, so that's part of the, the motivation, as well as the timing with, um, this awards shortlisting and the nature trust. We've also. Just, and again, this has been, and we tend to be really quite thorough when we, we do things. And again, I think this links back to a little bit to what I was saying, the beginning about that critical inquiry, being so much of a part of, you know, what my brother and I were raised in and, and the kind of environment of, you know, if you're gonna do something. You don't just take, take it at face value. You really dig in and try and get to those deeper layers. So we've just done a really thorough process over the last couple of years with air costs, in terms of understanding our carbon footprint, getting a much better perspective on, you know, being really clear that we have the accuracy around our carbon accountancy so that we can take. That information again, into our business decision making in a meaningful way. Um, and we've chosen to offset our carbon using, we actually have our own carbon farm, which is fantastic near, which is a regenerating its government registered. Um, Um, with the, the ETS that it has, um, a range of regenerating natives on it. And that's really quite nearby our, our premises, which is great. And we wanted to continue, I guess, in part, because we do this, this restoration work through the nature trust as well, have this biodiversity focus. We really wanted to. Make sure that our carbon offsetting was, um, in, in alignment with that. So we've used all local native forest, um, projects that are all, all government registered projects. Um, and it's been, you know, it's been a really expensive way to offset, as you say, like you can, you know, there far as far more, um, affordable options in that space. So it is very much the kind of premium end of that market. But again, we wanted to. We wanted our team to actually be able to go and visit these projects and see, you know, to know that we were getting these additional, not just carbon benefits, but additional environmental biodiversity benefits that, you know, again, I guess just taking a more holistic approach to that decision. And it's not to say there other aren't, you know, other amazing projects happening all over the world, that would be absolutely worthy of investing in it's just for us. Yeah, having something that's that's having that tangible impact in our local environment was, was where we wanted to go with that. So we feel really, and that's really only just coming into, into place. All of, of that work has come to fruition in the last month or two. So in terms of timing, um, to your question as well, that was partly wanting to, to talk about, to talk about that a little bit and to sort of celebrate the, the projects, um, you know, that we are working, we are working with and the partners that we. You know, across all of our, whether it's our, our supply brand partners with the brands that we sell or whether it's our logistics partners or, you know, all of this stuff. And there's nothing like getting a really good grip on new carbon footprint to bring this home. So clearly, you know, they are they're systemic issues that need a partnership approach. So, you know, no one, and particularly as a retailer, you know, we, we this out so much of what we can do. Is actually having these conversations with people and saying, Hey, we are prepared to pay more for, you know, a green option here. What can you, what can you do? What can you tell us about what you have and how can we do things better? And, um, you know, it can take a little while maybe to find the right person in the organization that's really, um, you or indeed the right, the right partner organization. We felt really lucky with their costs. They were really, you know, very committed as well to. Yeah, being very thorough and very, um, engaged with the specifics of, of our situation and what it was that we wanted right through to the final stages. Uh, a big one for us is New Zealand post, is that our logistics partner for, um, parcel delivery. So we are, we are constantly working with the sustainability team to try and, um, improve the carbon efficiency of our parcel deliveries, which. By far the biggest portion of our footprint. So again, just having inflammation and actually as part of our, a part of our footprinting a whole new methodology was in fact developed for, um, providing greater accuracy for freight delivery, which is now considered to be best practice in New Zealand. So we are able to then go to, you know, and that's something that's of value obviously to New Zealand post as well. So we're able to have that conversation with them around, you know, what we are investing in this space and really. You know, encouraging them to, to work with us on how we we've extensively looked at electric vehicle pilots, um, and things with them. We've got some complexities with our location. The hill requires a, a van of particular, um, range and, and things that's not currently available in New Zealand due to. COVID delays and whatnot, but, um, but you know, just continuing to just keep these conversations alive and keep looking at ways that we can, can raise the bar on some of these things collectively or collaborative. So I guess in terms of the timing of this campaign, it's like let's put ourselves out there a little bit more and connect with more customers that share our values, which is obviously what enables us to keep funding these activities in the first place. And also, um, yeah. Encourage other businesses to. Yeah. To talk to us, to talk to other people, to just keep, you know, which is so much a part of obviously what, what sustainable business network does, um, yeah. To. Keep taking heart and the fact that there are a whole bunch of, of businesses and individuals out there, you know, working on stuff and yeah. To celebrate that, take the opportunity to celebrate that.
Brian Berneman:Yeah. That's wonderful. And you know, like with Contra, one of our main, uh, values is to celebrating and I think it's, it's so important to be able to, to do that. And as you're saying, like it's, it's, it's important nowaday. To be able to share you're doing all of this amazing work in terms of like the environment, wellbeing of people, the wellbeing of your, of your workers, ethical standpoints that we haven't even talked much about. And, and, and I think being able to communicate and to celebrate what is happening now in nothing is perfect. Like you're just trying to do better, uh, and to be able to, to showcase, as you're saying that when we celebrate something, when. Bring some and shine, more light into it than others can see. This is possible. So I, I think it's so wonderful to be able to, to, to do this. And I just have lots of one last question, um, before we wrap up this, in this conversation, and that is. If there's one thing that you would like everyone to know, and this can be help. Post can be more about yourself as a person. What would you like everyone in the world to know about?
Lucy Butler:Oh, that's a , that's a big question. Um, I think, you know, I actually think, and this connects to what you've just been saying, Brian, but I actually think it's almost to do with vulnerability. You know, it's about being able to, and I find this comes up so much in a business context and in, you know, my personal life or what have you, but it's like, we Don. If we keep laboring on this idea that we have to be perfect before we put ourselves out there, or we have to have all the answers, you know, we just, the terrain that we're in now and probably have always been in, but it seems so clear now, you know, we are never gonna be able to. To move anything forward. You know, I feel like it's so easy for us to stop ourselves and our tracks by, you know, being afraid to kind of put ourselves out there because, you know, we might have missed something or overlooked something, or maybe there's a, you know, but I think, I think, again, it comes back to that intention and I, and I do sort of find myself having this conversation with colleagues and with the team, it's like, yes, you're absolutely right. We might put this piece of work out there and we might get a bunch. People telling us what we've missed and, but isn't that fantastic, you know, isn't that great. Like, I, I wanna know what we've missed. Like we hand on heart did our best with this. We put a bunch of time and energy into it. If we've missed stuff, then absolutely let's find out what that is. You know, we don't have to be defensive about that. And I think taking that spirit to conversations again with partners, with our customers, with our team, it's like, as long as we know. That we've done a, a good effort based on principles and value values that we stand by. Then we, we don't, we can, we can deal with the vulnerability of putting ourselves out there and, and people not agreeing or people, you know, that's just, just being a bit more open. I feel like that's. That's it's really hard for businesses to do that. It's not what we've, it's not the way that it's seen, you know, we've been taught to be afraid of that. You know, that you've gotta, you know, it's all this kind and you've gotta be. Or that you've got your ducks in a row before you take a step forward. And it, well, it's just for one thing that's just boring and also it doesn't, um, you know, it just, it's not gonna give us the pace to actually evolve, you know, individually or collectively that we need to evolve at, you know, unless we're prepared to risk a little bit more. So for me, yeah. I think, I think. For me is perhaps at the moment, I feel like one of the most important things to be mindful of one of the things that I feel like I bring up most in conversation. And again, the, the, the value of being able to, I guess, have these conversations as a director and as a shareholder and about to say, look, you know what, I'm okay with this, you know, I'm okay with this risk. Like, I totally understand that you are really nervous about this or whatever it might be that, you know, We're okay. We we're gonna be, you know, we're gonna put ourselves out there anyway and we just gotta navigate what comes. Nice. Yeah. So, and understand that for people in different positions, in different organizations, it's not always that easy, but I really hope that, you know, there is a culture of that. And again, that, you know, just not to underestimate. The consumer so-called, you know, that people can hack like the experiments that we have made over the years in this space of putting out the thing it's like, we don't have the answers, but this is what we've done. And this is what we've looked at. And, you know, we'd love to hear from you type thing has been overwhelmingly positive. And I think we have a really oversimplified idea of. Of the level of complexity and ambiguity, that the average again, so called consumer can actually handle it's like just have a little bit more trust that people will be able to meet you and are willing to meet you. And if they're not, that's fine, but you know that there are some people that are willing to go there. So,
Brian Berneman:yes, that's beautiful. And, and I think, you know, that that openness and that sharing is so important, especially nowadays when there's so much misinformation and so much greenwashing happening. in of these spaces, the more than as a, as a business organization, you can share, then you can say, this is where we are. This is what we are looking at. This are the certifications that actually mean. This, this and this, then that's giving people then the choice to see us as we've been talking, whether that align with them or not, whether that's the right choice for them or not, but you are doing the work so that others as well can follow. So, uh, thank you for, for, for this wonderful conversation, uh, Lucy, and thank you for the work that you're doing at help us as well. And for everyone listening. Uh, I would love to know, uh, what resonated with you from this episode. I encourage all of you to go and check out health post. I will put the links on the, on the show note so that you can go easily there, but. Engage and actually have your input as well. If there's something that you would like to see or ask engage, because as Lucy is saying, like they are open to receiving that feedback. so thank you, Lucy. Once again for taking the time to be here with us.
Lucy Butler:Thank you, Bryan. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.
Brian Berneman:Thank you. Thank you. And thank you everyone for listening and we'll see you on the next episode. Bye.
Lucy Butler:What did you like the most about this episode? Take a moment to think about what change you can make in your life today.
Brian Berneman:Share your conscious action on social media using hashtag conscious action and tagging at conscious action and said so we can celebrate your impact on the world and create a ripple.
Lucy Butler:One easy action. We would love for you to take right now is to share like, and subscribe to this podcast. This will help us get these messages out into the world and inspire more people to take conscious action in their own lives, contributing to the better world we hope for.