Noah is a Senior Cadet at West Point-The US Military Academy
Find out more of Noah here:
FB: @noah_kagan
IG: @noah_kagan
Connect with us here!
Fit to Lead Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fittolead.inc/
Noah is a Senior Cadet at West Point-The US Military Academy
Find out more of Noah here:
FB: @noah_kagan
IG: @noah_kagan
Connect with us here!
Fit to Lead Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fittolead.inc/
Character competence and consistency, God good character, you have to be competent in your job, you have to know what you're doing. And then you have to be consistent with how you lead. And I think those three words can be used to be an effective leader. And obviously, you can pick three other words and you know, they will be applicable as well. But for me, I think that keeps it very simple, very clear on what I plan to use with my time remaining at West Point. And then you know, my future in the army as an officer to lead my soldiers effectively, just continue to enjoy. I guess that's my goal. Don't get burnt out and continue to learn more continue to help people through. Alright, we are here with Noah Kagan. He's a senior West Point cadet, and we're so excited to have him on here. So thanks. No, for joining us. Yeah, thank you for having me on here. I'm super excited to talk to you. Yeah, it's not every day that we get a West Point soon to be graduate on here. So why don't you share the recent news that you got about your future with us? Yeah, so early this December, all the senior cadets at West Point, we got our branch. So I branch armor, which is super exciting. It was my top choice, the way it works at West Point. I know RTC is slightly different, but you submit I guess, top 117 branches, I believe I could be wrong on that. But essentially, you can, you can pretty much guarantee that you're going to get anywhere between your top three and top five based off your class rank. And then additionally, you have interviews for that for you know, for the branches that you do decide to interview with. So my top three were armor FA and NP. And it worked out that I got armor and my two other roommates got armor too. So that worked out so it should be fun. Oh, awesome. So are you guys gonna go to Bullock together? Yeah, I mean that I'm sure that both dates will be slightly different. But uh, we're definitely planning on getting a house together. That's good times right there. All right, well, we'll get into all of that. But first, we kind of saw a snapshot of where you are now just kind of on the cusp of your your college West Point Academy graduation, moving from a cadet to Lieutenant such exciting times. And I'm so excited for you. But I'd love to just kind of take it back and just go back to kind of your roots in how you got to where you are hear more about your story. And just some lessons learned along the way. So I love just for you to just kind of tell us about your background, how you grew up, and maybe what interested you in the military at all to begin with? Yeah, so I was born in Denver, Colorado, because my dad was in the army at Fort Carson. I'm not at the time, but he was there and then they ended up staying there, you know, to start the family there. I lived there for about three years and moved up to Vermont, which is where I lived or spent the majority of my childhood growing up family situation was very normal. I have two other brothers in the middle. I grew up playing hockey, lacrosse, skied and snowboard obviously being out like in Vermont, which is usually a big part of our lives up here. Now in terms of the army, I honestly came out of like left field for me, I was planning on just going to college like normal. It wasn't until the summer but some of them for my senior year at high school. We were just like casually talking about the army, like National Guard, you know, possibly paying for school. And then something just kind of clicked in me and I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna like jump in and just go all in. And I believe I enlisted in September of my senior year in the infantry. And then so I finished my senior year not you know, having to worry about college applications or anything like that. And I left for basic in June, I believe I spent my time down at Fort Benning doing OSA one station unit training for infantry graduate in October then went off to Fort Bliss, where unfortunately, like, I don't want to talk bad on that unit. But it was just kind of the situation that we were put into. So when I got there, they were at NTC. So I was pretty much doing nothing while I got there, which is fine, because it gave me time to like, kind of settle in and like figure out how everything works. They got a duty station at bliss. Yeah, yeah. For plus they got back and then we started doing like deployment preparations, you know, with all those like opsec meetings and like medical tests and stuff like that. But it ended up that our battalion did not get deployed. So we are on a rear D doing just a bunch of like, kind of like my new duties like I was gate guard for a while, which was like kind of mind numbing, but at the same time, it gave me plenty of opportunity to try and pursue West Point because I had so much time on my hands right. So initially when you first enlisted back in your senior year, you said you kind of went all in but what was it that drew you made you change your mind from college to the military? Was that your dad his influence? Or was it something else? Yeah, it was definitely my dad. My dad was not a lifer, by any means he only did four years. He enlisted right out of high school as well. And I think he shared his experience. And how it changed himself. Like purely like maturing him, you know, coming from high school to doing for years, it totally matured and changed who he was, and really, you know, was the base for who he is today. And like, I wasn't completely in the same situation as he was, you know, I did well in high school, I could have easily gone to college and done well. But I think his story in his perspective of the army kind of inspired me to just you know, do it. So it was definitely based from my dad's experience, for sure. Okay, awesome. So you didn't get deployed? That must have been kind of disappointing. You know? Yeah, I think your units going somewhere, and then you end up staying home, I can understand that. Yeah, it was, but um, I like to believe everything happens for a reason. And if I, you know, got deployed, I definitely wouldn't have wouldn't have gone to West Point, at least that year. So who knows what would have happened if I did get deployed. So it all worked out. So what made you even think about West Point at this point. So actually, going back in high school, I was aware of the academies, I visited the Air Force Academy back in like middle school, I thought it was really cool. But as you probably know, like the academies are incredibly hard to get into. They're extremely competitive. And like I said, I was, or I did do really well in high school, but I don't think I was the caliber to get in straight out of high school. So I always was aware of West Point. And then when I got to bliss, my, my PL, he was a West Point graduate. So he kind of nudged me in that direction. And then I actually ran into I forgot how I ran into him. But I ran into a captain down at Captain Carroll, he actually ran into one of my buddies and brought up West Point, my buddy, you know, ended up not pursuing it. But I got in contact with this captain, and started messaging him and I, you know, had meetings with him. And he talked me through the application process. It turned out that it you know, it's completely different between, you know, when I applied Bruce when he applied, but it was still cool to have that mentor to kind of talk or talk to me about what it's like to be cadet at West Point, and what the application processes. So that's kind of how that all started. Okay, awesome. Awesome. So, um, gate guard, right. Yeah. So sorry, continuing before I interrupted. Yeah, on gate guard. I don't know if you know, or not, but I assume it's pretty self explanatory. It's pretty mind numbing. But it seems that was kind of a, it was a good experience to, you know, just kind of worked through something that, to be honest, kind of sucked. But I beyond like, it was like every other day, so it was kind of good gig, I'd work one day like an early morning shift. And then I'd have that next day completely off, which is actually really nice to like, give me plenty of time to work on my application, which includes, you know, essays and interviews and a bunch of medical stuff as well. So that just takes time to you know, to get through it. So it was good to have those days that have literally nothing, nothing to do other than that. Okay, awesome. So you're chugging along on your packet. How does it go? Yeah, yeah, so I don't want all my packet. So I go on winter leave pretty much almost completely done. I think I was waiting on like one letter of recommendation to come in through my high school. I come back in January. And then I found out on February 13, that I got into West Point. It's funny, like I remember like, the whole day just exactly, and what we did for PT, I remember what I did for work that day. And then I remember telling my platoon leader and usually the way it works is if you're prior service or like if you're already in the army and you apply to West Point, a lot of the times you'll go into prep school for a year usually just because you've been out of school for a little bit and they they kind of want to like slow the work you back into like the academic academic environment. But for me I just I got the direct admission to West Point which was which was nice in my portunity it was honestly kind of surprised because like I said it usually works like you get a prep school slot. Yeah. And then I got in and finished my time I left bliss around probably mid to late June had two weeks off and then I went straight to West Point for for beast, which is like the cadet basic training at what's more. Oh, wow. Okay, awesome. So you started like about a year little over a year active duty enlisted before you went to West Point. Yeah. Okay, that's awesome. So yeah, I'd love to know, like your initial experiences upon joining the Academy, kind of what someone can expect what your experiences was like or what someone else could expect if they're kind of getting ready to go down the same road that you went down. Yeah. So going into beast, which is like I said that basic training at West Point. I had already gone through actual basic training, so I kind of knew what to expect but it was pretty different. It wasn't as rigorous but there are a lot of like my new rules that please and please are freshmen are called plebes at West Point that you have to abide by some of the rules are like you always have to cut your hands when you're walking outside. You can't talk when you're walking outside or just outside your room. Actually, in general, when you're in a building, you have to walk alongside the walls rather than like in the middle of the hallway. So you have to greet all upperclassmen and upperclassmen that whispering are considered to be sophomores and up see if they greet everyone. Oh, you have to do duties like take out trash. Cleaning oh and youth call minutes, which is before every formation usually 10 minutes prior, they stand out on the wall and call minutes saying like, one formation is what the uniform is usually what the meal is. The formation is usually for like a meal, like lunch or something so uniform how long it is until more information with the meal is that's a huge part of plebe life. And it's really not that that like people talk about or like, they're definitely rumors about like hazing and everything like that. That really isn't a thing anymore. I never had an issue when I was a plebe. And as I, you know, worked, worked my way up. It's never been an issue with the leads below me. So I wouldn't be concerned coming through just kind of like get used to being told what to do. And just as long as you do that thing, you'll be totally fine. Awesome. And so how things change as you move from year to year? Oh, they change? Yeah, like as a sophomore, how are things different or things like that? Yeah. So once you become a sophomore, we call them yuck, or a yearling. You'll be a team leader. So you'll be assigned one plead to like you're in charge of that one, please. So that's your position. It's really your first like leadership experience. So you're in charge of making sure they get their duties done, get all the things that they need to be done, especially for like big inspections like samys, which are Saturday morning room inspections, super, super in depth room inspection, like with a white glove, and you go around and make sure there's no dust. Yeah, it's really it's a big deal. And that's a big role of a team leader to make sure that everything is set in your plebes room and that everything is clean. And now moving on to your junior year we call them cows, you'll either be a squad leader or like a staff member in your platoon or in your company. So squad is pretty self explanatory. It's really just making sure you're once again making sure people do what they have to need to get done. In terms of privileges like plead you have no problem just like you You can never leave posted never leave on campus. Yeah, usually get like three passes a semester, I believe, cows, you can, I believe it's like four or five and then second semester cow year, you can wear civilian clothes after a CLB. And then once you become a first year, you're going to either be like a platoon leader or a staff member or like a company commander, you know, battalion commander rescue and work your way up terms of privileges, you have civilian clothes after cod every single day other than like the mess on library, usually you can leave whenever you want after see ob but that obviously was not the situation for us this past semester, which was unfortunate. But you know, we got through awesome. So okay, your privileges kind of increase as you go through the ranks, which makes sense, as you kind of are developed, you're kind of going through the ranks yourself and the over the past four years, how would you describe like your own development or what kind of leader you would consider yourself like, as you've grown, like I said, not only do you hold those leadership positions, like during the year, but everyone has to go through a leadership detail during the summertime. So for me, it was being a squad leader for the beast. And I think that was a really effective time where I kind of learned what type of leader I was. So I had was five weeks of leading these new cadets, we call them new cadets, essentially, you know, basic trainees through basic training at West Point. And that was a super good opportunity for me to kind of figure out what type of leader I was. And in terms of like defining what to believe I am for me, it's kind of hard to do that I've always gone off. So I call them the three C's character competence, and consistency, you have to have great character. And I think West Point does a great job at building a character through those four years and isn't something that you can build. And, you know, one basic training, that's why West Point truly takes the four years to kind of build that character. So and then moving on to competence, like, okay, like, you obviously have to be competent in whatever role you're filling, whether that's a team leader, a squad leader, or a platoon leader, you have to know what your what your mission is, and know what you have to do to get you know, to complete the mission was you have to be competent in your job. And then finally, consistency. When I've interacted with leaders that were like all across the board, in terms of how they lead, I found that to be kind of detrimental in terms of how their subordinates reacted to their leadership style. So having a consistent way of leading i think is super, super important. So people can know what to expect of you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I'm sure you've seen that quite a few different types of people come through West Point. What would you say would be who would you look in a candidate who may be thinking about going to West Point? What types of characteristics would you look for in a person and think, oh, you should definitely apply. You'd be a good candidate type thing. I mean, like, I'm not on like, I'm not on the admissions board. But I think it's pretty understood that they're looking for like a complete package like you have to do well in high school, you have to do well and you know, ACTA SAP, but it's not only academic, you need to show that you have some leadership capability. So a lot of times kids will look to be like a captain on a high school team or something like that, or pretty much show that you have a wide variety of skills and assets that you can use at West Point. So really just try to put as many quality things as you can into your app. And I think that'll make you the most desirable in terms of the admissions board. Okay, awesome. Yeah, so a variety of things showing that you're like taking leadership roles before you even get there. Exactly. Awesome. So how would you say that? I mean, it sounds like it's such an intensive process, really, to someone that hasn't been to West Point to think of like the normal college experience compared to what you went through? How would you say that's changed you we joke, you know, we joke that, Oh, I should have gone to you know, civil in college, like a buddy of mine, he got a full ride to Notre Dame with an ROTC scholarship, and he jokes all the time I go, I should have gotten there. While we don't party and we don't have you know, those fun experiences, which we definitely do miss out on. You learn a lot about yourself by going through these hardships, especially with like minded individuals. So I think as you work through West Point, you just realize that you can work through a lot of hard things that you think you can't are like, going back and being that situation, like, Oh, I have no clue how I'm gonna get through this, right. But then you always end up making it through and you're fine. I literally have that situation every single semester, I'll have like a week of I've, you know, literally 10 things doing my classes. And we have drill, and we have 10 other things on our plate. But you know, I always make it through. And it showed me that resiliency, that's what what I'm thinking of, if you're resilient, you can literally get through anything. And I know that kind of sounds corny, but like it's honestly true. So would you say what has helped you build your resiliency? Absolutely, absolutely. Because not only do you have academics at West Point, but you have things like drill to where we have parades, usually every week, especially during the fall for football games, you have briefs throughout the throughout the day, as well. So they really just like to suck up your time. Yeah. Which is, which makes it really hard because you have less and less time to get your academics down. And then also you know, you want time to work out and then you want time to just kind of decompress and relax. And then you also have people to worry about you not worrying about yourself. You also have to worry about you know, your pleat if you're if you're a yuck or your squad if you're a cow or you know your whole platoon if you're a senior. So yeah, yeah, let's talk about kind of schedule and time management for a minute. Do you want to just walk us through what a typical day or like a typical week might be like at West Point? Yeah. What windows a free time that you may have. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. So this past semester was definitely different because of COVID. So it was actually more relaxed in terms of like mandatory formations and mandatory meals, but I'll just talk about like, what a standard day it was like product COVID. So normally, we would wake up around 615 630, depending on the person have formation at like 645. Usually, breakfast is only mandatory for plebes or freshmen. And then classes start at 730 classes are usually anywhere between 55 minutes to an hour and 20 minutes. And then so you'd have class on morning, then we have lunch formation at 1135. And lunch is mandatory for everybody. So you form up and then you marched to the mess hall and you have mandatory tables that you set out every single day, same seat everything have a meal, which is usually brought to you so your meals brought to the table and served family style. It's pretty crazy what we have like 4400 people and it's big mess on everyone goes at the same time. And everyone eats in a matter of like 15 minutes, which which is pretty, pretty crazy. Then you get up and depending on the day, so like we have day one and day twos and so on day ones, you have an hour and a half in between lunch and your next class so you can usually use that time to additional work or some people take naps. Now on day twos. A lot of times we'll have a brief on that on that hour and a half window. So after lunch you'll head to a brief which will usually take the full hour and a half and then you have classes after that until 4pm and then after 4pm you will have company athletics or you go to your mixture on like a core squad team to like a division one like sport, you'll go to that practice until like 1730 probably then you have dinner which is always optional. You don't have to go if you don't want to and then usually after that the time is yours to you know get work done. Interesting. So you guys have PT at night no see, that's the interesting thing. We don't do structured PT, which I know is different than RTC. I believe you guys do. Yeah, we do it in the morning. Yeah, that shocks a lot of people that we've really never have structured PT, like a normal ROTC unit would do or like a normal army unit would do. It's really all on your own. Which personally I like a lot because I know I'm going to work out every single day and I like doing what I want to do but there definitely are kids who kind of need that extra push to get more physically fit so it's good and bad so when you say company athletics at I believe it was 1600 that's like what time are you just work out on your own? My bad yeah, company athletics is like intramural sports. Oh, gotcha. Okay, so like if you're not on a if you one team you'll do company athletics which is like fall it's usually not you can play basketball or football or you know, very generic sports like that within your company and you played against other companies. Okay, as that manager Yeah, it is interesting. Okay, so that's like a team building time type thing. Totally. Totally, totally. Okay, cool. So what would you say would be the biggest advantages? Or you could say disadvantages. I'm sure you're gonna sway advantages, though, to going to West Point versus like a regular ROTC program. I think the biggest advantage that you have at West Point is like the saturation of mentors we have at West Point. I mean, like, literally every single instructor, we call professors, instructors at West Point, they're usually captains or majors. And they have, you know, plenty of experience in the real army. And literally, every single one I've had has been a great mentor for me, and you can just pick their brain on, you know, what it's like to be a leader in the army. So I think that's a huge advantage about West Point, you just have so many opportunities to ask questions and to learn more about like, how to lead effectively. And then additionally, training like military training. So our weekends are split up into football weekends, AC training weekends, which are military training weekends, the weekends, which is like a free weekend, and then add weekends, which are like academic weekends. So for AC weekends, we do military training on Saturday morning, which usually isn't anything crazy, but still like it's something that you get to learn, you know, something every week. And then in terms of our summer training, that's pretty extensive on gaining military expertise. I believe ROTC just does one summer at Advanced camp, correct me if I'm wrong? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So instead of just having one summer, we have three summers of training, which I think is beneficial. Yeah. So you're, like, fully immersed in the in the culture? And then networking? Sounds like it's a really big thing at West Point. Yeah, networking is huge, huge. I mean, both at West Point. And when you get out, I've had, you know, multiple people come up to me. And if I'm wanting like a West Point t shirt, or something, the connection between Western graduates is just super, super strong. And you can definitely use that towards your advantage. Yeah, so speaking of men that you mentioned that you've had quite a few throughout your years, I'm curious to know if there's any, like one or two mentors that stick out to you any stories that you may have about them, and what characteristics they embody that helped you so much, definitely one that comes to mind was actually my senior drill sergeant at Benning when I was, you know, in the infantry. Yeah. So that was cool that I was able to maintain connection with him after I graduated to guide kind of created that connection, when I got into West Point kind of reached out to him. You know, he said he was proud of me or whatever. And then yes, he's proud of you. nccos? Oh, you're going to the dark side? Yeah. Yeah, but I've maintained communication with him. And last year, for one of my classes, it was a requirement to have like an official mentor, and like, FaceTime with them and talk about other like, you know, leadership skills like that. So it was really cool to FaceTime him multiple times. And I eventually wrote an essay about, say, I forget, but he's been a really good mentor. For me, especially coming from like, the NCO side of things where, especially as a new Lieutenant, you're gonna have to rely on your NCO a lot to kind of fill you in, fill in the gaps and stuff you just don't know. So he has been a great mentor. And in terms of like, what his leadership style is, I'm sure his leadership style is a little bit different being now back at a normal unit, rather than being a drill sergeant. But in terms of like, what he was like, in basic, it's kind of hard to put into words, but he was incredibly hard, incredibly strict, but at the same time, he had the ability to kind of like, step back from the situation and like, be a mentor for the basic trainees, it's really hard to explain, he was honestly to someone that we all looked up to, even though he was, you know, brutal on us. So yeah, what are some takeaways that you took from him specifically? Like, what did he teach you about working with your nccos that you you're going to take with you, when you become a Second Lieutenant, I think the biggest advantage that you have at West Point is like the saturation of, of mentors we have at West Point. I mean, like literally every single instructor, we call professors, instructors at West Point, they're usually captains or majors. And they have, you know, plenty of experience in the real army. And literally every single one I've had has been a great mentor for me, and you can just pick their brain on, you know, what it's like to be a leader in the army. So I think that's a huge advantage about West Point, you just have so many opportunities to ask questions and to learn more about like how to lead effectively. And then additionally, training like military training, sore weekends are split up into football weekends, AC training weekends, which are military training weekends, be weekends, which is like a free weekend and then add weekends, which are like academic weekends. So for AC weekends, we do military training on Saturday morning, which usually isn't anything crazy, but still like it's something that you get to learn, you know, something every week and then in terms of our summer training, I think that's pretty extensive on gaining military expertise. And I believe ROTC just does one summer at Advanced camp. Correct me if I'm wrong? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So instead of just having one summer, we have three summers of training, which I think is beneficial. Yeah. So you're, like, fully immersed in the in the culture? And then networking sounds like it's a really big thing at West Point. Yeah, networking is huge, huge. I mean, both at West Point. And when you get out, I've had, you know, multiple people come up to me. And if I'm wearing like, a westpoint t shirt, or something, the connection between Western graduates is just super, super strong. And you can definitely use that towards your advantage. Absolutely. Yeah. So um, speaking of men, that you mentioned that you've had quite a few throughout your years, I'm curious to know if there's any, like one or two mentors that stuck out to you, any stories that you may have about them? And what characteristics they embody that helped you so much, definitely one that comes to mind was actually my senior drill sergeant at Benning when I was, you know, in the infantry. Yeah. So that was cool that I was able to maintain connection with him after I graduated, I'm trying to think i think i think i kind of created that connection when I got into West Point and kind of reached out to him. You know, he said, he was proud of me or whatever. And then yes, he's proud of you. nccos Oh, you're going to the dark side? Yeah. Yeah, but I've maintained communication with him. And last year, for one of my classes, it was a requirement to have like an official mentor, and like, FaceTime with them and talk about other like, you know, leadership skills like that. So it was really cool to FaceTime him multiple times. And I eventually wrote an essay about it, I forget, but, but, um, but he's been a really good mentor. For me, especially coming from like, the NCO side of things where, especially as a new Lieutenant, you're gonna have to rely on your NCO as a lot to kind of fill you in, fill in the gaps and stuff you just don't know. So he has been a great mentor. And in terms of like, what his leadership style is, I'm sure his leadership style is a little bit different being now back at a normal unit, rather than being a drill sergeant. But in in terms of like, what he was like, in basic, it's kind of hard to put into words, but he was incredibly hard, incredibly strict, but at the same time, he had the ability to kind of like, step back from the situation and like be a mentor for for the basic trainees, it's really hard to explain, he was honestly to someone that we all looked up to, even though he was brutal on us. So yeah, so yeah, what what do you think? What are some takeaways that you took from him specifically? Like, what did he teach you about working with your NCO Is that you, you're going to take with you, when you become a Second Lieutenant, I think just when you go into your unit, you have to acknowledge that, yes, you are in charge of your platoon. But you have to acknowledge that they have, you know, 15 years plus of experience in the army. And they know, way more than you, you know, talking about your PSC or even your squad leaders and team leaders, you know, they've been in longer than you have, and they know way more, but, you know, they're, they are there to help you. Yes, you're a leader, but they're there to help you. And you, you too, have to work as a team to be, you know, an effective unit. Awesome. Yeah. No, I couldn't agree with you more. That's that dynamic is when it works. It's just beautiful. Like it Yeah, you know, it creates trust. And, you know, if you can get the best of both worlds, it's great. But I've seen it work, and I've seen it not work. So you definitely agree that you know, I hope you know, you know, when I get to my you know that a good good platoon sergeant that we work well together, because like we said, if it does work, it works really, really well. Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk about kind of being a team player, like you said, I think you mentioned the your drill instructor kind of taught you about that. Do you have any advice for how someone could be a good team player either at West Point, or just in the army in general, I think when I think of team player, I think of like, kind of letting your ego aside I think especially being at West Point or just really any college in general where you're where you're competing to get like a specific branch to you're really competing against your peers, right? But at the same time, you kind of need to let your ego let that ego down and realize that being a team players is incredibly important as well. So you see that a lot with like the leadership positions like this past semester, I was able to later and my a good buddy of mine was our company commander and you know, so we're in constant communication. And there are plenty of times where like he you know, he asked me to do you know, XYZ and it wasn't necessary necessarily very convenient for me or beneficial for me or my platoon in general but like you know, be a team player get that thing done for you know, for your co but your you know your buddy as well, and it always works out. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that's a perfect way to explain it is to just let your ego down. And not to question everything right. I think it's like I may not understand Why you're asking me to do this? Because I'm not at your level, but I'm gonna do it anyway because I respect you. And I want us all to succeed. Yeah, that's super applicable at West Point, actually, because they're like, there's a huge gap between the Joe's at West Point and like the higher command so high command is like anything above battalion. So yeah, battalion regimen, brigade leadership. And a lot of people like to complain when Brigade, you know, sends a memo down to do to do you know, x, y, z, and they have no clue why we're doing it, but like, just let you just let it happen. Just do it and like, you'll be totally fine. So yeah, that, would you say that? You don't know exactly why you're doing it. But like, just trust the process? Yeah, exactly. Trust is huge. Yeah, if you can take that with you. Take that with take that with you. Yeah, ego can will ruin can ruin a lot of morale. I think I've experienced that. So I think you're right on it is to just not let your ego get in the way and focus on teamwork. So yeah, I think great. Awesome. So we talked about a little bit of time management. So let's talk about fitness, which is something that we both enjoy. We're both on Team VPN and join that this year. So so happy to be on the team with you. But if you guys don't know or haven't checked out Noah's Instagram, Noah is like just walking around like a bodybuilder like he could just walk on stage right now. And he's just so senior West Point cadet. So I don't know, when I was in college, that was not the situation. So I would love to know kind of how like, we can even go back on fitness. How did you start getting into fitness at all? Were you in sports growing up? Or what kind of planted that seed for you? Yeah, so I wasn't sports growing up. Like I said, I play hockey and lacrosse, but I was never big into lifting. I think it really started when I enlisted. I'm like, oh, like, you know, wouldn't hurt if I put on you know, few pounds of muscle. So I started lifting my senior year of high school, just like very casually doing it not really knowing what I was doing. I remember pretty much doing chest and biceps every single day. It was funny of me. That's great. That's class. Yeah. Are you following a plan at all or just doing whatever, whatever you like really just doing whatever and I, I honestly don't remember like trying to figure out like programs or anything like that. I was just kind of like doing what I do, which was very, very minimal. Then I went to basic obviously, you can't let them basic training. But when I got to bliss, I got back into it. still kind of like didn't know much. But I was like slowly gaining knowledge pretty much all through like, honestly, pretty much all through YouTube. You can learn you can you can learn a lot on YouTube, as you probably know. Yeah. Well, what what Sorry, just What year is this? Like, What year were you? I was okay, that's 2016 Okay, yeah, that's about the same time for me. Yeah, yeah. 2016 that's like the high end YouTube, like, two I think was like really, really popular. You could learn like so much just by YouTube. Absolutely. And then in the winter of 2017 I decided to like i'd you know, put on some muscle and I kind of knew what I was doing at that point. But I had never done like, I still didn't know much about like diet, which as you know, is a huge part of fitness in general. I decided to do like a like legitimate like weight cut, which I probably shouldn't have done looking back on it because I just hadn't built enough muscle but at the same time I had always been like not obese by any means, but like always had a whole little bit of weight on me. So I did that and it was successful. I learned a lot about you know, macros, protein, fats, carbs, calorie counting, I relied heavily on My Fitness Pal. So you just did it yourself. You coach yourself through that. Yeah, I talked a lot with my older brother who knew a lot more about it than me. And then I also like I said, learned a lot on YouTube as well. Cool. Awesome. Yeah, it was convenient for me because we have like a little kitchen in our dorm or not don't matter barracks. That bliss which is really convenient for me. So I could cook all my food literally tracked everything. Oh, yeah. And it was really nice. It worked out great. Got lean, but I still didn't have like much muscle. So So did you have that? Do you have the option to not eat at the defect into Okay, okay, so you just chose to like cook all your food and everything. Did they out? Did they take a cut out of your pay for defect food though? Or? No? I'm sure they did. Because I mean, I didn't have to pay. Yeah, so I'm sure I just kind of lost out on that line to be honest. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, I would occasionally go but I remember cooking most of my food in my in my in my room. Okay. And your little barracks room. That's awesome. Yeah, that's dedication right there. I know. So that worked out for me. Like at the end of that cut. I went home for two weeks and then like I said, went to beast at West Point. And then got right back into it. My plebe year back into lifting and now at that point, like I you know, you can't cook any food at West Point, or at least as a plebe. I didn't know what I was doing. So you're pretty much eating all your meals in Messel. But I did have plenty, plenty of conflict and I think that's why I've had so much or seen so much progress in life. This, you know, journey or whatever you want to call it. Because even though we are busy, you can find time to lift and workout, if you if you make time for it, which I did. So I just, you know, I would go to the gym every day. And I would know when you see progress, it's really easy to continue that journey. That's what I did. I wasn't really concerned about macros, or counting calories. At that point, I was just making sure to eat enough, which isn't hard to do. Yeah. So when would you fit lifting in during your time at West Point, I'm going to gyms open from 530 to 10pm. So whenever you don't have class, you can essentially go as long as you don't, you know, mix formation time and when you work out. So for me usually it'd be in the afternoon around, I don't know, three or four till Yeah, if you can, if you can find timing, you can make it happen. And now in terms of company athletics, that was every other day. So if you didn't have to come here, folks, that's when I would go to the gym. Okay, awesome. So okay, so you weren't really worried about tracking macros. So what is the? So I know this is such a strange question. But yeah, what is the food like it was fine. Like you said, you couldn't really choose what you ate, right? But so the stuff or food, the food, the food is interesting, it is actually changed a lot since I was a freshman, the food they give you definitely at the table definitely is not like the healthiest in the world. But you do always have an option to go to the salad bar in the back so you can get a salad and you can put chicken on it. Okay, yeah, so that was always an option for me. They always have like plenty of Greek yogurt to eat, which is obviously a great source of protein. They also have like a deli bar. So you can make your own turkey sandwich which which was convenient. And it's actually changed a lot. Like I said, especially this past year, they have this new menu called go for grain, which is essentially just like focusing on like clean foods. Now we just have like a bunch of fish and rice and sweet potatoes and chicken, which is which is great. Which is really, really good. Awesome. Okay, so there are healthy options for you. Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. Okay, awesome. Yeah. So what advice would you give to somebody who maybe is just starting out with fitness? Maybe looking to put on some muscle just get into it? And you know, balancing a busy schedule as well? Is there anything that you would do differently? Or something you would focus on more? Yeah, I think it'll depend on like, what their starting point is sort of, like you said, if they want to just put on muscle not necessarily lose fat. So yeah, let's go with that one. Yeah, let's go down. Okay. So I would first tell them that, you know, results will take time, even though you will see results much quicker in the beginning of your lifting career, you know, beginner gains and everything, they still will take time to make sure to eat enough. Like, I've so many people can't come up to me and say like, Hey, I can't put on the weight. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know if this is something you know, whether my metabolism is slower than normal, which I do think it is. Or if I or maybe I can just stomach more food. But you know, if you're not in a caloric surplus, you're not gonna put on any muscle, or at least very minimal. So just truly make sure to eat enough, especially protein. If you're if you're going to focus on one macronutrient only definitely Protein Protein is obviously King. And I think where a lot of people go wrong is not going like putting all your effort into it. You don't have to spend two hours in the gym. But you can even if you spend 45 minutes, if you go all out for those 45 minutes, I promise you, you'll see you'll see results like I personally work to almost failure on every single like, you know, set that I do, just because I know that like I will see growth from that from that set. So I think that's incredibly important. Just going putting all your effort into it. Not just going through the motions. Yeah, absolutely. I think that those are great tips. Absolutely. Eat enough eat enough protein, put everything, everything into it. That's awesome. So I'd love to know, is there anything? So we talked about physical health? I know mental health is also a big focus in the army. I'm wondering, is there anything I guess? How do you care for your mental health? Do you do anything specifically? And then is there anything that like West Point offers as far as like mental health care while you're there? Or is that not really a focus? No, no, it definitely is a focus at West Point. We have had unfortunate situations where cadets you know, do take their lives and so you know, obviously is a very important aspect of our time there. And for me specifically, my physical fitness is very, very related to my mental mental fitness or mental health. For me I literally use working out as as a way to stay like mentally stable. I know like if I if I go a couple days or if I can't work out because the gyms are closed or something like that. I definitely feel off and I feel different mentally. So for me lifting is a huge part of my mental health. Now in terms of what westpoint offers, they do have I think every company has a like cadet counselor that you can always go to for like mental health issues. They're trained on Stuff like that you can of course go to chaplains. And then I forget what the actual acronym is for, like our mental health guidance or opportunities, whatever you want to call it, but you always have an opportunity to go talk to someone, you know, confidential, and just kind of like voice here. Whatever issues you're having with your mental struggles, struggles or anything like that. There are plenty opportunities, but still, you know, it's tough. And you and a lot of you know, some people won't seek out those those opportunities to get to get help. Yeah. Is it like a normal thing that like, I guess, is there any taboo around it? West Point? Yeah, I mean, I mean, yes. And no, I don't think anyone would actually, you know, think down you free going but still that taboo still kind of like hanging over everyone's head? Yeah. Like, I don't think anyone would actually make fun of you or or think less of you for going but still, like, there's just that natural taboo about it. That definitely is present. For sure. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah, that's unfortunate. But, uh, hopefully, like you said, people can use the mental health care available or like he's working out like, like yourself, it's amazing how your physical health really does relate to your mental health. I experienced the same thing for sure. When Yeah, like when my physical health is on, I'm just, I'm a happier person, like, just totally in general. I think i think that's that's one thing that a lot of people underestimate, underestimate about, like working out, whether it be lifting or running or whatever, like just moving your body in general. Yeah, you know, yes. it'll it'll affect what you look like and how you feel. But like literally how you feel mentally. It will, it will it will change you for sure. For Yes, yeah. Absolutely. I couldn't agree. Couldn't agree more. I've experienced it for sure. Awesome. So looking at I'm, I just am so excited for you, like you're about to graduate, you have so many fun times coming up. So I love to just talk about like, your goals for the future, like your aspirations, both like military and fitness, or even like just leadership, what are some things that you're looking forward to in the next and the next chapter? Okay. Yeah, it's kind of funny, you bring that up, because I've been having this conversation with my family and friends a lot recently about what I want to do, you know, with my time in the army, then, you know, when I possibly get out? And I, I've been thinking, so I'm a law major at West Point, law and legal studies. Okay. Love it. And I think I want to pursue law school. Now, the question is whether I do that in the army, I'm not sure if you're aware, but the flat funded legal education program, which is where the army will pay for your law school, obviously, you have to, you know, pay back time in the army. So my, you know, I'm really going back and forth on whether I want to do flip and go to law school, or do my five year commitment, and then go to law school after that. But that's, you know, either way, it's super exciting to have those opportunities. Awesome. Do you know, okay, so, law school? That's so exciting. Do you know what kind of law you would want to are interested in? Or are you looking to be a lawyer or have any idea, it's interesting being a jag because I know Jags like practice a bunch of different law to where like, if you are a lawyer in a, you know, in the civilian sector, you're pretty much going to focus on one aspect of the law. For me, I think if I was a civilian lawyer, it would be targeted more towards like business law. So working for a business, making sure you know, everything they do is legal, and then you know, kind of like an advisor for them. So I think that's what I would like to do in the civilian world. And I like I said, I'm not exactly sure if Jags get a choice on what they practice. I don't think they do if I'm being honest. I think they're more like advisors for commanders. And then obviously they can represent soldiers. For cases. Yeah, okay. That's so interesting. Yeah, you have a lot of options, you know, you have a lot of options. I think the five years that you serve, will reveal, reveal the answer, you know, like yourself, let yourself see how you see how it feels to live it and everything and always just be thinking in the back of your mind. Like, do I want to keep doing this? How long How long have you been in? So I've been in since 2013. I commissioned so almost I don't know. Yeah, like seven years so you only you only had a four year commitment right? Yeah, correct. Yep. So what made you I'm curious what made you stay in rather than getting out after four I truthfully, like I so I'm an eight so I'm like was in the National Guard for a while and then I came on like title 10 orders about two or three years ago, which is where I was like National Guard but on active duty orders. So now I'm in the process of like actually going full time active duty so I've actually like doing it completely backwards. But it was just like every time I would go on orders or like do it full time I just it's just like so I got both sides of it right civilian side and army I saw both at the same time and I was just drawn to the military like no way to me there's nothing else quite like it and like good ways and bad like you know you do good with the bad but to me like it's like The camaraderie and the Brotherhood and the sisterhood. I love the way that it challenges me. Like it challenges me in a way that I wasn't challenged on the civilian side. And just it can be stressful how you're always like, thrown into something new. But in a way, I think it always keeps me growing. The only downside to me is like the logistics, like I on one hand, I love traveling, and I love the opportunities that I've been able to get. But there's not a lot of like, locational security, like, yeah, thinking about moving every three years, it's like the only bad sight to me. And I'm, you know, of course, I'm like, trying to figure out my way how I can get into a branch where I wouldn't have to do that. But that's like a different story. So yeah, I just, it's like the culture, I think it's just like, I just want to do this more than I want to be in the civilian world. But I know a lot of people that a lot of my friends have gotten out, and they've had a lot of success on the civilian side, and, and they're having a great time. So it's really just like, you know, it's what's best for you. There's no right answer. Yeah, I totally agree. And like, when I talked to my instructors, you know, when they were a cadet, they said, they're gonna do five and get out like, 100%, I'm not gonna do more than five and look at them. They, you know, they're, you know, they've been in for 15 years. So I say what I say right now, but who knows what's gonna happen in four years? You know, you honestly really don't know. Yeah, I would say, I think that you're good. And thinking ahead, like, I spent too long, I think like, just like figuring it out as I go. But like having that plan, at least once you get to, like, First Lieutenant Captain area. It's like having that long term plan at that point was really useful, I think. So. I was still kind of like, I don't know, I'll do this for a year and see if I you know, but now I'm like, finally, kind of figuring out my, like, 1020 year plan, and it feels really good. Like, it feels really secure and everything. So yeah, like, don't be afraid to try stuff, like try different things. I would say, advocate for yourself as much as possible, like advocate for all your schools that you want to go to Yeah, do you have any schools that you're looking to go to right out of the gate? It's, I mean, like, I haven't taken the LSAT yet. So I have no clue where I stand. Because the outside is like the biggest kind of like factor on what schools you get into. But being a law major, I did have opportunities to talk to the Dean of Harvard Law School and Yale Law School. And going back to like, the connections you make at West Point. You know, getting into Harvard Law School at Yale Law School is incredibly hard, obviously. But being from West Point, you kind of have that, that in because they were literally like, we get that your GPAs are lower at West Point compared to any other college kid. But like we want you to apply, we want you at a school. So that's another advantage. You know, whether you go to law school, or get your massive master's degree in something, having that westpoint name is incredibly useful in terms of getting into these, like premier schools. So so we'll see. But having said all of those really, really, really highly respected law schools. But let's see, that's awesome. Any fitness scores coming up on your radar? Okay. You know, not on that, I mean, I think for me, just continue to make progress. I'm on like, kind of like a lean bulk right now, up until probably February or March. And then I'm gonna try to cut cutting at schools always hard, because I can cook some food in my room, it's really like really kind of sketchy, just like oatmeal and like stuff, I can cook in a microwave. And it gets really boring really quickly. So cutting at school is definitely harder. But I got pretty lean this past summer. And it was easier to do that because I was I didn't go back this past semester or the spring semester of last year, because of COVID. So I got pretty lean because I was at home so I could cook all my food but just kind of like do the classic you know cut for summer time, no specific like, no specific goals of weight or anything just like don't don't think about it too much. Just have fun. I've never lived listed for strength or anything like that. So I you know, don't really have any goals of of, I'm going to deadlift X amount of pounds. Just continue to enjoy. I guess that's my goal. Don't get burnt out and continue to learn more continue to help people through my page and that school. And I think those are those are pretty solid goals. I love that. All right. Last question. Without with your experience enlisted and at West Point. Can you think of Oh, I think you may have already said it. But like three words or a phrase to describe what you think a good leader entails? Yeah, I already did. I did already say it. But going back to it character confidence and consistency, God good character, you got to be competent in your job, you have to know what you're doing. And then you have to be consistent with how you lead. And I think those three words can be used to be an effective leader. And obviously you can pick three other words and you know, they will be applicable as well. But for me, I think that keeps it very simple, very clear on what I plan to use with my time remaining at West Point. And then you know, my future in the army as an officer to lead my soldiers effectively awesome and So everyone that Noah gives out a lot of amazing fitness content on his Instagram every day, a lot of great content about West Point or about the army in general, if you're interested in that. So, where can people find more info from you know, you can find me on Instagram at Noah Kagan fitness, like you said, I talked about the army West Point. And then I also like to talk about, like, kinda like the science behind lifting and nutrition. So a lot of times we'll kind of dive into like a study and show, you know, certain graphics like a graph or, or something like that to kind of like, show you how or what the science is behind behind lifting and nutrition in general, which I find super interesting and beneficial. Yeah, absolutely. It's awesome to know the reason why you're doing something that helps motivate people to do it. Totally. All right. No, well, good luck on your last semester. And thank you so much for coming on. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. It's been fun.