Peter Kelly, Royal Marine & CEO at imployable

“I lost my purpose at that point… I had no mission and I really started contemplating what I'd done wrong. I couldn't go back…”

 A far cry from Entrepreneur of the Year, Peter’s transition from the Royal Marines to the business world was challenging, “I joined a company... my first foray into civilian world… it was a really toxic, horrible environment… probably the worst experience I could've had.”

 Months of being unemployed followed leading Peter joined the Reserves, “I kept my rank. I went straight in… and they put me on the Royal Navy officer training team.… and I was basically just thrashing these Navy officers… because I was a drill instructor, so it kind of worked... and that saved me...”

 Peter found the motivation to help himself and spent 6 weeks on YouTube learning how to build websites, then pitched to his first customer, “ ‘I'll do it for 50 quid’. He was like, ‘50 quid?!’ I was like, 'Look, mate, I'm gash… I'm not amazing, but it’ll be something that gives you a bit of presence…' and he's still got it!”

 The entrepreneurial seeds were sewn, “… a load of lads started coming out of The Corps and I started building websites… I smashed them out quite quickly but it was a great little niche because people coming out of the forces couldn't afford a £2-3,000 website and they didn't really know anything about business to be able to start that side up… I always said to them, 'Look, I will build you a website, it will cost you between 5 to £700… but it will pay for itself within a month… the traction and the customers that you get, will pay that back…”

 Fast-forward and Peter’s the 2018/19 Nat West Entrepreneur of the Year and co-founder of the ‘imployable’ App with £1.4 million of private investment. So how does a highly successful businessman end-up laying his soul bare on LinkedIn in the middle of the night, discussing the abuse he experienced as a child? 

Listen on.

Hosted by Steve Bomford and Mike Davis-Marks.

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Transcript

Rachel Owen: 0:02

You must stay at home. Stay at home. Hello, and welcome to lockdown posted by Steve Bomford with Mike Davis marks, our armed forces operating challenging environments. Week by week, we'll explore what we can learn from their experiences.

Mike Davis-Marks: 0:24

Hi, Steve, you remember the article I shared with you from LinkedIn, from a former armoring called Pete Kelly is and he's the subject of our next podcast. Indeed he

Steve Bomford: 0:35

is and what an article it was. It was I was I was very surprised. He was very candid. But yes, I couldn't not get in touch with him having read that?

Mike Davis-Marks: 0:45

Well, I've read the article, obviously. So I'm now fascinated to know what came out of the broadcast.

Steve Bomford: 0:50

Well, let's have a listen. Peter, thank you so much for agreeing to come on the podcast.

peter Kelly: 0:59

No, it's my pleasure. Absolutely. My pleasure.

Steve Bomford: 1:02

So in our little preamble, before I hit the record button, I just asked you how we should play this. And you said, let's just go for it. So in the spirit of let's just go for it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna start at the beginning, which seems like an odd place to start these days. You are at a friend of Mike's my co host on the podcast, and he sent me a link, saying, I think you should read this. And it was the post that you put on LinkedIn on around Remembrance Day of last year. And it was, well, it was a very personal story wasn't that I think it's fair to say, would you just like to elaborate on that story? And how you find yourself where you are today, I think,

peter Kelly: 1:47

um, yes, it was a weird evening, actually. Because I've, I've been going through some stuff over the last sort of six months, some really big changes in my life. And I sat there on my own. And I was thinking about Remembrance Day. And I was thinking about friends on former Royal Marine, and I've lost, I think nine friends over the last 10 years. So it's, you know, you sort of sit there and you start thinking about them and about, you know, life and, and life in general, and then started reflecting. And so I sat there, it's about one o'clock in the morning, and I couldn't sleep and I was, I was just like, I need to get this down, I need to, I need to write it down, I need to get out of my head. And I thought, if I got out of my head, it'd be out my head and I could sleep. And so I was on LinkedIn anyway. And I just started a new post. And I didn't really know where I was going with it. I didn't know if I was going to post it. I just needed to get it into words. And I started to post with, you know, I don't know where I'm going with this, essentially. And then just wrote, and I wrote for probably an hour and a half. And it was a very freeing experience about just being open and honest with myself really, and saying all the things to myself, or wanted to say to myself, but not actually saying it if you like so it is. Yeah, it was. It was quite interesting. So just to put some context around that is, I joined the Marines in 2005. I was 18, I came straight out of college. I failed college, I went to college to get fit, essentially. And I wasn't very good academically, and I didn't really do very good at school. And it was all because of my childhood that led me to that. And then ended up having a very successful career in the Royal Marines. But I went through this period over the last sort of six, seven, maybe eight months where I was angry, you know, I was things that happened to me. And I was trying to find answers to those things. Why they happened. And I couldn't find the answers. And it made me very angry, upset person about why I went through what I went through. Why me? why certain people in my life did certain things to me. And and I guess that that evening of writing that and putting it onto paper, which is the first time I've ever done that kind of let me look at it from a completely different perspective. And as I was writing, I realised, actually I'd changed my mindset around my past and and not not be a victim, essentially of my past but understand that the reason I am where I am now is because of my past. And if one tiny thing had changed on that timeline, anything changed then I wouldn't be where I am now. So it's is looking at where I am today and then sort of understanding I probably had to go through what I went through to be able to be here today and doing what I do. So I know that's very ominous, isn't it?

Steve Bomford: 5:07

Well, yes and no, I think it takes courage to share things, especially in such a public domain as well. Because as I'm sure you're aware, you never know how people are going to react to store to people telling their stories. And I think it's that's that that requires a degree of courage. So well done for that. I think you're maybe underselling where you're at today a little bit. Do you want to tell me give us give us all a bit more context? Because you've, as you said, had a successful career in the Royal Marines. But you've also had another successful career, haven't you? And when when you sort of referring back and saying, that's made me who I am the you know, your experiences have made you who you are, which I would, I would think that's probably true of everybody. But and it's, you know, not everybody wants to talk about how they've got where they are. What are you doing at the moment?

peter Kelly: 5:54

So I founded a company called employable, which is an app startup, and it was born of bad experience after the Marines. Funny enough, it's funny how things happen, isn't it and I left the Royal Marines in 2015. As a corporal as at Lumsden as an instructor. I wanted to get into business. I didn't know what I remember standing in front of Phil Gilby, who's the RSM at the time, Lumsden? And he was like, Why? Why on earth? Are you leaving the core? And I said, I want to get into business. And he called me nuts. You know, that very hard about what you're doing? Because I didn't really know what in business. So fast forward to my TX day, I left the role Marines, I joined a company... my first foray if you like, into, into civilian world, really, I mean... I was 18 when I joined the Corps straight out of college, I had a job from when I was 13 but it wasn't, it wasn't the real Civvy world, and yeah... it was a really toxic, horrible environment. It was absolutely horrible and it was probably the worst experience I could've had.

Steve Bomford: 7:03

So is that, is that your? Is that your advert for transition? Right there? Yes, be

peter Kelly: 7:09

very careful. I did my transition I'd bought right, once a solid base, and a solid base was project management, a lot of people do it. And, you know, I was expecting to go into project management into construction first, and then move more into the commercial side, maybe contracts, and I kind of been shielded by the Royal Marines, and you know, everything I'd ever known as an adult. It didn't do me any favours to be honest. And so I joined this company, as, funnily enough as a business development manager, and I didn't really know what a business development manager did. So it wasn't even project management. And I was like, okay, so it's business and development, and I'm a manager, how hard can it be? And I got in there, and I did really well, I mean, I was running the marketing team, the sales team outbound team, and I think our lead generation went up 400% In the first two months, just through cultural changes, just through changing what they were doing really wrong. Or what I perceived to be really wrong and then put in some military, you know, across the board, Navy, Army, Air Force, our mentality of how teams work and and how we develop, you know, our subordinates how we manage our managers. And it worked really well but it just it was just such a toxic place from right from the top and I lasted three months there, and then I had to leave because it was absolutely breaking me. And then I spent the next year unemployed in the job centre. So I rang Phil VOB. Funny enough, I messaged Phil VOB on on LinkedIn. And he had this very nice, I told you so Mel moment. Because 2015 You know, it was a year after the RM 350 The core was absolutely rammed you know, they weren't worried about people leaving at that point. So I said that, is there any chance of me coming back? And he was like, there is no chance. He said, I'll ask the question, but there's like literally no chance, especially as a corporal crying out for Marines and but then, but then I saw the reserves, join the reserves, who actually saved me because as soon as I got into the reserves, I realised you know... there's a stigma between regular and reserves and I feel terrible for even contemplating that stigma when I was in, you know, and especially with the Royal Marines reserves. And so I joined the Royal Marines Reserves. I kept my rank. I went straight in. I met some amazing people who are bootnecks through and through and there was some ex-Regulars there and there was some thoroughbred RMR lads there and they put me on the Royal Navy officer training team. So I was basically with the RMR training team with a load of Lieutenant Commanders and one Corporal Kelly... but they did, they did that and I was basically just thrashing these Navy officers, like the disciplinarian if you like, because I was a drill instructor, so it kind of worked... and that, that saved me, because I was unemployed. So already, if you think about it in context, I was lost at that point, right, I left something that I've done since I was essentially a boy that I did very well that I really enjoyed, too. I always wondered why I left you know, because I didn't leave on bad terms. I absolutely loved the job, my career look set, I could have gone all the way. And it was a niche that I needed to scratch. I think to prove to myself that wasn't a one trick pony, you know, that I could that I could be successful in other areas of my life. But then, after failing miserably at my first job, then being unemployed, and I remember being in the job centre signing on, and the work coach and the DWP was just like, there's nothing I can do for you, Pete, you know, you don't need any help. You've got all the qualifications, it's just a matter of keep cracking on and at that point, I started racking up lots of debt, because I'm trying to keep my lifestyle from being in the core. But it wasn't zero income, or 72 pound a week, or whatever it was, you know, my every credit facility, I had just got spanked, you know, credit cards, loans, all good debts. It wasn't bad debt, but it was it was good debt I and what I mean by that is bad debt is when you just owe loads people money, good debt is when you owe institutions money, but you, they've given you that line of credit.

Steve Bomford: 11:36

So I thought you were gonna I thought you're going to comment what you were actually spending it on there. And I thought this is this didn't expect this.

peter Kelly: 11:43

Oh, yeah. No, don't worry about that. It was Yeah, I got two kids. And I was married. And, you know, it was just about keeping the family shielded away from what I was going through, you know, being the man being the bootleg being, you know, that guy that is sat there going, Oh, it's all going to be fine. You know, when in turn internally, I'm tearing myself apart and... so I lost my purpose at that point, you know, I had no purpose, I had no mission... And I really started contemplating, you know, what I'd done wrong. I couldn't go back. You know, but there's something inside you says, you know, you just got to keep pushing forward. So I spent six weeks on YouTube, learning how to build a website, build websites. I then went to some lads that I knew that were leaving the core starting businesses. I remember the first, Jim, the first website I ever did. I said to him 'Look, do you want a website? I can build you a website.' and he said 'I can't really afford it.' 'So yeah I'll do it for 50 quid.' 'He was like, 50 quid?' I was like, 'Look, mate, I'm gash, you know, I'm not amazing. But it will be something that gives you a bit of presence.' So instead of him go to spend two grand, and then yeah, ...he's still got it! He still got it. I asked him probably about a year and a half ago, if he wanted me to update it just to he did me a favour, you know, and he was like, No, it's fine. That Wow, okay.

Steve Bomford: 13:07

I'm assuming I'm going to assume your rates have gone up since then. This is not an advert for 50 quid websites this

peter Kelly: 13:15

actually gone down. It was funny, because then I kind of I kind of thought, 'Right, there's, there's a little niche here that I can get, and then a load of lads started coming out of The Corps and then I started obviously, I started building websites for 6, 7, 800 pound I smashed them out quite quickly, you know, but it was, it was a great little niche, because people coming out of the forces couldn't afford a 2-3000 pound website, and they didn't really know anything about business to be able to start that sde up. So I always said to them, 'Look, I will build you a website, it will cost you you know, between 5 to 700 pound dependent what it was, but it will pay for itself within a month. So the traction and the customers that you get will pay that back. And then in a year's time when you've got, you know, customers... and customers are generally people who are accustomed to doing business with you, then you can invest in a better website and that, and that kind of work that work for parties, you know, it kept me afloat. And then the next thing that happened was just divine intervention. And it was just the universe I think. I an ex army captain, Oliver Lippia. He's an absolute legend of a man, he ran an app development company and sent my CV off for a technical project manager. And I thought nothing on there. And he then rang me back and these are your boot neck and you you've got your project management qualifications and you've built websites. And he goes, Yeah, sounds good. So I went to the interview, suited and booted I walked in and there is in both shorts and a T shirt and he's got my Facebook open on his laptop. And I was just like, I was just like, Yeah, I don't even know why bother dressing up for this and it was absolutely brilliant. And he took me on So, I ended up running projects for Ric Glenfiddich, Louie Vuitton, you know, and he was basically pimping me out and other companies as well. And I become very, very good at project management. And by the time I left, I rewrote the company's project management strategy. I was running project managers around Europe, I was flown out to Poland, you know, and it was just, it was brilliant. But what it gave me was the quickest lesson I ever had in Well, one of the quickest lessons I ever had in, in, in the app world, in the tech world software world. And being a project manager and a marine and a member of the armed forces, I kind of looked at that and went, Well, this is easy. All you need is an idea. Because everything else is easy. And that it kind of proves that knowledge is power, right? And you don't know what you don't know. But when you know it, you know it, and you can use it to your advantage. And so I'd run these, these projects for startups. So we'd have people come in off the street and say, I've got this idea, I would then basically be assigned to them, I'd help them design it, map it out, prototype it, I'd then go with the developers scope it, build the MVP. Then after building the MVP, go and test it, then after testing, I would go with them to their investment meetings and pitch to their investors as sort of CTO advisory, getting cash, and then build the overall thing and then get it get it launched proper. And, you know, my co founder is also a Marine. And we were on a similar course together in 2008. And we were only probably 2021. And we kind of meandered through our career bumping into each other every so often. And then when I left the coil, I got hold of him and said, you know, he owned a coaching company. And I've got level five and coach and all this, you know, and tomorrow if you got any jobs go in and he interviewed me. And he didn't give me the job. I still give him

Steve Bomford: 17:01

still bitter about you still bitter about that as well? Yeah,

peter Kelly: 17:04

yeah. And I say on every podcast I do, as well. So I want everyone to know. But when you look at that he absolutely made the right decision and proved something to me there that he's not. It's good to do favours for people, but you have to do it within, within what you're doing right. Otherwise, it becomes detrimental to the people. You're coaching to business to everyone. So he didn't give me the job. But we stayed very close friends. And then he came to me and he rang me up at work one day and was just frustrated with how the world of coaching works and the DWP and getting people into work. And, and I was very frustrated about my transition, my transition from the core. I did zero career exploration, you know, I wanted to get into business. I did project management, because that was the one that sang out to me. And I entered the world I didn't really know I was doing. And I said to him look, well, there's a there's an idea here, we can build an app here, but basically solves all of these issues. And so we met him five services and for about three hours and 400 coffees, basically through it and employable was born. And you know, fast forward. Four and a half years now we've had 1.4 million pounds of private investment. We won 18 contracts as apart for Work and Pensions work. We just signed a huge partnership with NHS. We won the NatWest Entrepreneur of the Year awards in 2018 and 19. Yeah, certainly, you know, it's it's been a hell of a journey. It's been an absolute whirlwind, and we've done some fantastic stuff. And we've gone viral, it's mad. And, you know, I look back at that and people look at me from my social media and from the outside, especially LinkedIn, I think this is why LinkedIn was so important. I did it on LinkedIn is that everyone looks at me, my peers from the Corps peers from civilian world and thinks well, he Kelly's got it all, do you not? I mean, yeah, well, he Kelly worked damn hard to get there. And so did his team. And so to Kira, and and all of us and, and you know what, what you see on what you see a face on the face of it is not necessarily the story of what's behind it. And it was, you know, some really hard lessons there. And at any one of those points from being unemployed, to then transition into my own company, I remember the first time we went to get funding. Now that's so nervous, you're pitching your idea to people with money, then trying to justify valuations, for instance, and then sat in, you know, you sat in virgin headquarters talking to Virgin about this and that, and then you're on a video call with indeed, which is the largest, you know, jobs board in the world. And they've got their head of startups, they're from New York, and you're sort of sat there as this boot neck just coughing it just Yeah, but at the same time, though, my moral compass is very true. You know, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. So you know, go for it. So yeah, it's been a, it's been an absolute whirlwind. And that night on LinkedIn was kind of a kind of worked on two ways where it was for me to sort of talk to myself and about understanding what I went through as a child. And then as an adolescent, and then the knock on effect actually had throughout my life, which is trend in my life and understanding why. Sometimes I'm like I am, but then also accredit in the fact that I am where I am. Because of that, because they experienced and then and then I got to the end, and I read it back. And I thought, you know, what, I am not an anomaly here. There are so many people that are having this sort of internal battle of the likeness. You know, civvies, as well as military, I think military is a whole different beast, because you're built to be this certain person, right? You're built to be strong, and you're built to be resilient, and you're built to be in teams, and you're built to have a purpose and a mission, and everything is very linear, right? So you, you plan and you execute your plan, you execute, and then you deal with anything else that falls out afterwards. So it's, I sort of sat there and went, you know what, I'm going to post this, and then I thought, no one's gonna see it, because it's like, 230 in the morning. But if someone does see it, then you know, so bit, and, and I press post, the stuff that come back was incredible. And it wasn't a post to boost my profile, my profile is quite, quite big already. So I haven't got to worry about that. So it wasn't anything to do with business, my business is quite big already. If anything, it would have been sat there is more of a risk, actually, when you have 600 shareholders and some really big corporations that that work with you. Because it shows vulnerability, right? And when when you invest your money into someone and into a company, you want to think that they're solid, but at the same time, I think it takes a certain amount of strength to be able to acknowledge and then find a way through because I've seen people implode, I've seen friends employed, and I don't want to get to that point. You know,

Steve Bomford: 22:13

I can understand what you're saying about risk, which is probably what investors are thinking about, of course, is, you know, can this guy deliver? What is his going to? But I think, on the plus side, there's integrity, and courage. That seems as I've already said, involved in this, we will, if you agree, we can post the link actually into the podcast description. So listeners can actually have a read of it. I do think it is well worth the read. And I did think while we're having this conversation, well done you for doing that. But I think, you know, it's not just about, you know, is Pete arrest financial, I think there's a lot more to this. And if he you know, there's you're not talking about just one thing in this post, either. And I think it's worth it's worth having a read off for sure.

peter Kelly: 22:55

Yeah, I mean, it's there. On the flip side of the risk, you know, I thought people might look at and go, Oh, my God, this guy's on hinge Deniz a grenade and he's just waiting to go off. But actually on the other side of it, when you read it. One a lance actually wrote it in the comments, which I wasn't expecting, but the, you know, if you read the post, and it basically goes through, and this is, you know, it's a fraction of the story. But it's enough to give people a taste, and in enough for other people to look at it and go, you know, what this happened to me and and I'm not looking for empathy from anyone, I'm looking for people to take the same journey, essentially, of rediscovery. And the post goes on from when I was born in South London, and my earliest memories, and just growing up in a counsellor state, and just how rough that is in South London, but also around family and neglect and certain abuses and dealing with that, to become the person I was when I was 18, which was very emotionally, very emotionally detached person who wouldn't let anyone get close to me, because, hey, everybody who was gone, most people who were close to me growing up, screwed me over, so why wouldn't anybody else. So I became a person that said, well, are highly destructive, where, if I started getting close to someone, I would destroy it, I would destroy it, so that they can, and if they couldn't, that means they can hurt me. And at the time, you think that's why I look back now. And you know, and I will get hold of people from my past, and just, you know, over time, because there were people there that supported me and I just absolutely pushed them away. And you know, I didn't treat them the way that I would want to be treated and I didn't treat them the way that I would want to treat them and the thing is, as you grow and the more experience you get, you become more sort of emotionally intelligent, if you like, and more emotionally aware. And once you once you hit that level of motional intelligence, you, you can look back at certain things you've done previously in the past and just acknowledge that you would never do that again. And I think, you know, that's probably a testament to that. But since that post have gone through some quite fundamental changes in the way in which I think about myself and my life, and you know what I want out of life, at the end of the day, I've worked for four and a half years, you know, tirelessly have neglected my family, and to achieve the same, but ultimately not in a malicious way in a way that, you know, if we get this right, we can all retire by 40. And then we've got no worries, no real worries, you know, so I'm trying to deliver for my family, while sacrificing my own family, it's just such a crazy place to be. And it's just funny, I, you know, I'm starting to believe more and more that, you know, everything is a lesson. So everything you go through is a lesson, and it's that you will, you will keep getting that lesson until you learn it. So when you think about someone who's in a depressive state, it can be and I've been there, and I've been so low, and you know, I've hit the drink back in the past, and I've done all of these very self destructive things. And it comes around and revolutions. So you attract, you know, what you are, and you're a product of your environment. So if you're having negative thoughts, everything becomes negative. And that doesn't mean that you could just go well, I'm going to think about this positively. Because it just doesn't work like that is it's more of a, it's more of an understanding awareness point where you sort of sit there and go, What is the universe trying to teach me in this moment? What am I not getting? And it's never just straight up, you know, it's, it's up and down, up and down, up and down. But then the more things that you start taking out of it, the more you start to learn that actually, I think the universe has a bit of a plan for you. And you know, that might sound cliche, and that might sound like a belief that I've structured in myself. But you know, what, so what, at the end of the day, if that's what I believe, and I'm a happier person, and a better person, and a better person to everybody else, then you know what, go and believe what you want to believe as long as it makes you a good person and a good person to yourself. And that's the key. I think, once you're happy with yourself, you can make a lot of people happy. You know, so I look back. Now, and especially over New Year's, I did a lot of soul searching over New Year's and I booked some amazing stuff in for this year, because I'm concentrating on me, and and I started just sort of planning out what if this hadn't happened? Would I have got the resilience to get through this and, and if this hadn't happened in this, and this and this. So if you think about when I left the Corps, the transition was terrible, right, the first thing I did was land in a company that was just absolutely horrendous, right. But that the learning point out of there was that the transition didn't work. The second learning point is that now I know how not to run a company and how not to treat people, then I was unemployed at the job centre. And then I realised I had to live through that experience to understand and empathise with the people that we support through the app or unemployed, because I'm not sitting on my pedestal saying you should do this, I've been there, I was there. So I see exactly how it works, which opens up the level of how I can make it right. And then going through the, you know, the app development phase, you know, I learned how to build or project manage apps, so learn everything about tech, I learned about investment and business and, you know, over a really short period of time, and that gave me all have the knowledge, skills, tools and attitude to be able to go and actually fix the problems that I had when I was younger. And, and growing up and leaving the core. So when you start looking, you know, on the flip side, I could have sat there and gone, the world hates me, I was unemployed, I got lucky with this job, oh, and everything's a struggle with this business. And I have to work so hard. So what you know, if you're not working hard, it's not worth doing. And, you know, when we all joined the military, of course, it was hard, whether it was the Navy, or the Marines, you know, or special forces. Everything was hard, but you did it. Because that's what you wanted to do. And you didn't feel sorry, or become a victim, you know, you're there for a higher purpose, when there's probably a bigger than yourself. And boom. So when you start looking at those two different sort of lines of thought, if I had gone the way of, you know, I'm a victim, and I've been unemployed, and this happened to me, and this happened to this happened to me, all I'm then doing is looking for the next thing to happen to me, that's going to put me back into that state of disrepair if you like. Whereas if you could change your mindset to say, that taught me that and I needed that because look what I did there, and that taught me that and that and that and that and that and that. So then instead of looking for the next thing that's going to screw me over, I'm looking for the next thing that's going to teach me a lesson and it means that I'm going to learn that lesson much quicker because even though I won't know what that lesson means, in the down the line, I know that that lesson is important. So you know, I look now, at what's happened to me over the last six months, I split up my wife, I've moved out, I've lived on my own now is the first time in 35 years that I've lived on my own. You know, I was at home, and then I joined the Marines. And so it's, I've sat here quite lonely and thinking, What have I done? And then I think, well, what's the what's the purpose of this? And when you do you think, well, actually, this is the first time probably ever? Well, I have no choice but to talk to myself. And if I'm going to talk to myself, it's going to be about something that makes myself better. So 27th of this year, it's just so funny how things just happen when they're meant to happen. And I had my children, they got COVID. So I couldn't have over Christmas, and I was particularly bad. And then came New Years, and I had my kids and I ran care. I said, You know what, I'm not going to force life anymore. I'm going to let the life come at me. But I'm going to be open to life. And I'm going to do some things for me. So there and then I got to climb the three highest peaks in Morocco, in North Africa. And I spoke to them, and that's all booked. And then I've got a couple of other friends who I know that was going through some hard times, I said, look, let's book this for April, let's just fly to Marrakech is climb these mountains, let's have a goal, we could do some fears we can get ourselves mentally. And we can stand on top of the mountain in April and say, You know what, we did that. And that kind of spiralled into a load of different things. Because then I thought, well, if I'm going to do that, I might as well do more, I do a lot for charity, I've always done a lot of charge to raise 10s of 1000 pounds for charity. And I thought, well, I'm going to come up with 10 challenges this year that I'm going to do, half of them are going to scare me in half, and I'm going to just be horrible, and about half of them are going to be amazing as well. Because you don't just have to put yourself in The Hurt Locker to make money for charity, it can also be something that you enjoy. So I've got well, we'll come on to what I'm doing in the next few months, no doubt saw the and then straight after that I'm doing the free peeks then I'm doing a skydive for charity, then I've got a mixed martial arts fight that was supposed to be last year that's been moved. So cage fight, then I'm just just about to get a place in the London Marathon, which is really good. Then I'm climbing a six and a half 1000 metre peak in the Himalayas, in Nepal. So yeah, I basically come up with all these challenges that I want to do. And some of them are very personal, not for charity, they just really this is what I want to achieve. And you know, I feel really good about that. I feel like I have a plan. I feel like I have a life outside of the business. And I feel like there I have a bit of a purpose now. Right? My purpose, I want to raise 50,000 pounds charity this year, that makes me feel good. And people say there's no such thing as a selfless act. And in some respects, I do agree. Because yes, I'm doing all these things that I will love. But you know, as a residual benefit, I'll be doing it for charity as well. So we're helping two people at the same time. So yeah, it's been, yeah, it's been quite a freeing experience. And then two years was the best sort of reset I ever had, I rang my dad and I was in a bit of a bad place, couldn't see my kids and around my dad on New Year's Eve, and I'm going to drive down to London, about 200 miles away, I'm just going to come and see you for New Year's, he wasn't doing anything. And I'm going to go to the gym, and then I'll call you. And then I was in the gym, I was absolutely fresh myself as you do. And one of my mates walked in, had a chat with him, he invited me to a party, I went to a party, it was completely sober. We were all sober. And we had an absolutely amazing evening that nothing just by being open to that. So you know, it's kind of made me feel that I'm gonna let life come at me and I think,

Steve Bomford: 33:51

come work out whether you're a philosopher, or whether you're solving this puzzle, you know, or is it both? As is just as fantastic the way you talk about this, Peter? It's really it really is and but it's it's an ongoing journey, isn't it? This is still a very this is very much alive project if you are alive project, and you're still working on it. And I think that's the sort of space and consideration you're now giving yourself is really important, obviously, for you. But I think more broadly, that's something where everybody is really rubbish at and I think COVID has made that a lot lot worse for an awful lot of people for you know, for some fairly obvious reasons, as you've kind of alluded to, but what an exciting journey you're on. I wish you every luck with all of this. I really do.

peter Kelly: 34:36

Yeah, it You're right. I mean, life is a journey and there is no end point. Right. But it's, I give a lot of talks, a lot of the talks I say, you know around knowledge and power and it's 2021 it's not it's also true. And you can learn anything in 2022 Is everything that you want to know, but only go and learn what you what you're interested in. So you In these talks, I say if I get in my car right now, and I start driving, I don't know where I'm going, I'm just driving around. If I get in my car, and I know my destination, at least I know where I'm gonna end up and I will end up there eventually, it might not be efficient, it might take the ages, but you know, I will end up there. But then if I have a map or SAP map, and I know my destination, I get there very quickly, and I get there, hopefully, quite easily. Yes, there'll be diversions on the way. But without that knowledge, firstly, of where it is that you want to be. And I think that's an internal thing. I think COVID has made people realise that, like, being in prison, wasn't it, you know, I'm not living life, I'm not happy with myself. And the biggest key, for me, the biggest free and experience was, I don't need to make other people happy. Right? I don't need to work to make other people happy. In the first instance, I need to make me happy. And if I make me happy, inadvertently, it will make other people happy. So you know, I was going into the office and just being moody and my staff are like, Oh, why are you such a moody, so and so, you know, and that reflects on them. And now I go into the office, and I'm very joyful, and, and you know, and I'm spreading love, and people think I'm nuts. And it's and it's just different, because he's in a good mood, I'm going to be in a good mood. And if something goes wrong, I look at it completely differently. And I'm not like, Oh, my God is going on I go, Okay, let's take a minute, let's look at what's gone wrong. Let's get all of the evidence that we need. And then let's come up with a plan if the plan is wrong, and it doesn't work. So what as long as we don't do that same thing, again, we'll keep doing the things that don't work until you find the thing that that does. And I think that's the key. And there's some other great things as well. And it is philanthropy and philosophy and all of this, it's more of a it's more of a look, I'm on this journey. This journey is changing my life. And then the knock on effect of that is on changing other people's lives. And I just want people to go through that same journey. And can you imagine if everybody went on this journey, what a better world we'd live in. And zero is, is up and down. I mean, on Wednesday, I you know, I run a very successful, busy business, you know, and I'm the CEO of that business. Now on Wednesday, I move into Wales for three months to drive an ambulance in Wales.

Steve Bomford: 37:19

Come on, tell us about this, because I didn't know about this yet. This is not a surprise. But I think I was surprised when you told me this is what you were doing. So come on, tell me about the ambulance.

peter Kelly: 37:29

Yeah, so I'm in the reserves in the Royal Marines reserves. And I'm still there. And then obviously, the the NHS is struggling and it's struggling because of there are a lot of people off work. And the knock on effect of that is people are dying. And then when I got told, right, I've got see one licence, and you know, this has come up. And so I've embraced that and gone, you know what, yeah, absolutely three months is a small ask to go and help save some lives or to help amazing people do an amazing job just to be an enabler, I don't need to be the star of the show, I need to get the stars of the show where they need to be. And therefore I will get in my big Nino and I will drive the actual stars to wherever they're needed. And if that's my way of saying and giving back to, you know, through the pandemic, I'm not looking for an MBA, but at least then I can start again in myself to say, Yeah, I did that, you know, and I just enabled people, you know, I'm not going to be there saving people's lives. But I'm going to be helping the people who do and helping just relieve the strain. And that's what we can do. And that's a great thing for the military. It's a great story for the military. That's what the military is for both foreign and domestic is to help you know, people get the wrong perception of military. But at the same time, from business perspective, you think, oh my god, you know, you're ripping the CEO out of the business. But over the last four years, we've got a fantastic team. So Marina is our CEO, she's second in charge, she is a better business person than me. I can categorically say that she's now stepping up as CEO for three months. So she will absolutely be fine. The company probably more successful, I get the sack when I get back.

Steve Bomford: 39:09

The details of your experiences are helping you to be able to let go with that. Because, you know, I run my own business as well. I mean, I'm pretty sure you're gonna say something similar, but letting go if especially if it's your baby, your idea, so on and so forth. That kind of challenge of letting go. So three months driving an ambulance, do you so do you think basically that you know, your experiences are helping you with this? Because you've obviously gone through a fairly interesting previous 12 months?

peter Kelly: 39:35

Yeah, it's, um, there is always ego in business, right? Especially if you start winning awards, and you do podcasts and you do these things. And you think, oh, but it's always very important. And I think the military is really good for this. Civilians don't quite get this, but when you're in the military when he's in Afghanistan, yes, we're focused on what we're doing right at this point. But you always understand that there's something much bigger above you that you're just a part of And when it comes to business, I'm not here to screw anyone over. And I'd like to think that everybody who's invested in the company who works for the company understands that I will do whatever it takes to make this company successful, even to the detriment of myself. Now, when I look at that, and I think I've got 600 shareholders, we're probably the most heavily invested military company in the UK. So we've probably got 200 veterans who have invested in our company, they're all small amounts, you know, ranging from 20 quid, or, you know, to 10s 10s, hundreds of 1000s. So I think when you when you sort of look at it, and say, well, this company is much bigger than me. And the reason I run this company is not to get rich, and I don't want to be the richest man in the cemetery. And I'm not the highest paid person in my company. And I'm fine with that. What I want to do is solve some really big social issues. Now, when you think about that, am I the right person to solve those issues? Well, we just don't know. But if I'm not, well, guess what I am going to go find the person who is who's going to run that, because at the end of the day, this is my legacy. And yes, ultimately, when it comes to, everyone thinks I'm rich, I'm actually very, very poor. But the, you know, when it comes to the value for my shareholders value for our users value for our clients, you know, if I'm not the right person, I need to find that out sooner rather than later. And so if this is a good test, the residual benefit of this deployment, that we can sit there and have a board meeting three months ago, well, actually, the last three months has gone really, really well. We've accelerated here, here and here. Who am I to stand in the way of that, I would literally step aside, do my role that I used to do anyway, and just support and, you know, because at the end of the day, this is what we're trying to achieve is much bigger than any individual and it was much bigger than me. And it represents a purpose and a mission for a lot of people. So a lot of people that have invested in us have had a similar journey with their transition, right? So the business is owned by them, they're owners of the business, it doesn't matter how much they still own the business, the business is a reflection of what they believe. But the business is also there to go and solve the problems that they have. So who the hell am I to? To make that all about me and personal? Yeah. So my job is here to make sure that that happens. In any way that I can. If I had to just make the tea and make everyone happy, then that's what I do.

Steve Bomford: 42:29

Do you make a good cup of tea?

peter Kelly: 42:31

I do I make a mean cup of tea. Meanwhile, yes.

Steve Bomford: 42:36

So can anybody use this app? Is this Yeah, so So our listeners can can use? Yeah, and what very briefly, what what's the How does it work?

peter Kelly: 42:47

So the first thing I realised about transition is that there's no career exploration, right, you get put onto a course you learn how to write a CV, I left the call the 12, page CV. And they said that was okay. And then I went to I got a call to a job interview. And when I got there, they said, Look, we're not interested in you for the job. But we're going to show you and sit with you and rewrite your CV. How amazing is that? Yeah, I was disappointed. But at the same time, you know, they helped me because fail, fail early, right, failed early. And that was someone who helped me to do that. And the app is designed to give people the knowledge. Once you go on to the app, you build a profile, it takes probably five minutes to build a CV, you can download that as a ready to send CV if you want. But once you've done that you can we have a whole career exploration module is 1000 different jobs available in the UK. And the app will tell you everything you need to know about that job. But it will also show you as a percentage how you fit that job. So personally and professionally. The second big feature that we have, which you know, and it's free, and I worked very hard and did the deal of my life to get this for free, is a personality profiling tool in the app. So you can download, build your profile, take this personality profiling tool. And once you've done that, it will tell you very, very, very in depth about how you fit in certain roles, certain positions, certain teams. So you can start to understand the types of jobs that you need to be looking for. It will put you on a on a graph of where you should be sort of blocking. And we we had this peer reviewed, we test it within house. So we all did it in work. And then we gave everybody access to everybody's personality profiles. And we sat there I was like, oh, that's why you're not you know, that's why you do that. That's, that's why you react to certain things this way. So you we understood each of them. And it's really helped the team dynamic and, but for me, it's helped me understand myself, you know, why do I fly off the handle when this happens? Well, in this environment, you are very this, this, this and this. So, okay, I have to remember that and I can't change my personality that's been developed over a long time. So that is very, very important. And then what, what the next transition of the app is, is we will show our users how they They're from their personality profile, compared to jobs to, we're doing it with the NHS at the minute the NHS are putting out lots of stuff, they're doing the personality profiling. So we will be able to say someone, here's the graph of the of the person who would fit this job. And here's your graph overlaid, and you're good fit. And this is your percentage fit eventually, your 98% fit personally is be enough, for instance, you know, so you think about, then, the dynamics of career exploration has completely changed, right, I'm not just looking at what I'd seen on TV or TV, you know, I'm looking at, firstly, what is available. Secondly, what that entails birdly, I'm looking at how I fit personally. And then, you know, lastly, the app tells you how to fit professionally. So it has all of the qualifications that you need to break in, and it'll say your temps and qualified, you press that, and then shows you the qualifications that you miss in the then press bind. It gives you every qualification provider in your area that can give you those qualifications, when are doing a big project with ELC, which then will show military, what ELC courses are available to them to be able to get the qualifications to be able to break into industry. So people make informed decisions, because I got off a lot about PTSD. And PTSD does exist clearly exist. But I think it gets misdiagnosed so much. I mean, when I was going through a bad place. I rang up, you know, the veterans gateway do a great job, they do a great job. They're just there's just too much going on for them to handle I think and I spoke to someone I said, Look, this is not PTSD. This is there might be forms of it. But this is childhood. This is personality thing. This is something that's developed over a long time. And the person came back and said, like ring this PTSD number that did that did more damage to me. Because I wasn't now being listened to EBA. So I sat there looking at the message on my phone saying I finally reached out to someone I've told you what I believe it is. And you've you've done that. And then guess what? I didn't call them through my phone. And then I'm in a worse place. So I think actually, there's a whole new thing. Two things Firstly is I think prolonged, so not post traumatic, but I think pro post prolonged, so post prolonged stress disorder, that's not a clinical term, that's just something I've made up. But I think when someone is under prolonged stress, for a long time, it doesn't have to be traumatic. You know, I think that causes mental health issues. And that has to be looked at differently to a traumatic incident, the trauma is over a long time. And then I think this the second thing, which is where I was, is lack of purpose, lack of mission, right, I come from an organisation that that is one of the best in the UK with some of the best people I've ever met in a close knit team where you speak, we speak our own language for God's sakes, I mean, and you have that and you know, yeah, eight man grow. And you know, that is shared experience, and then you get ripped out of that. And now all of a sudden don't have that network. You can find it online, but online is empty, right? It's it's just a computer screen talking to a computer screen where you lose that real interaction. And then I think from from that point, when you start analysing your life and how alone you are you you've got no purpose on a mission. What's my purpose in the world? Now? What is my mission, I don't have a mission. And when you're in the armed forces, all armed forces, everything is a mission, right? And now we don't have one. So what they've made you to become so, you know, the PTSD definitely does exist, I just think there's different forms of stress disorder that are being completely neglected. And the knock on effect of that, and is that people with true PTSD, and I know, view is kind of slipping through the net, you know, because everyone's got PTSD. And then if you look at the economic sort of knock on of that. I've read things that make me very, very angry. And I try not to be angry. I tried to educate rather than antagonise. But the, you know, when you see employees going, well, I'd never hire military, because, you know, we've all got mental health issues. You know, but the problem is, it's a it's a very vicious circle, because we want people to come out and talk about mental health. And then it's in the news about, you know, the Office of Veteran Affairs giving out so much money to veteran mental health. that translate into into a commercial world because a lot of people who leave the military don't really understand the commercial world and as a business owner, and someone in the commercial world worked with some really big companies. There is a very fine line between being supportive and empathetic to being closed and risk averse. So although you might sit there as a business owner and say, Oh, this is great veterans. getting exactly what they want, and they deserve it. But I'm not going to hire them. Because I don't need that admin by shouting about it. And by doing all of these things. Now, I'm not saying it needs to be sort of this silent epidemic, because it definitely doesn't. I think that along with these news articles and pieces that are going out needs to be education, right? Because actually, if a business owner understood someone with post prolonged stress disorder, or someone who's got a lack of purpose, lack of mission, if that business owner gave them a mission, and brought them in as part of their purpose, then my God, would they have found an absolute diamond have an employee, but they they're not educated on on that. And then in the same vein, if you're looking for those people who want a mission and a purpose, then as a business, I mean, are, we exist as employable to ensure that everybody, no matter their age, background ability, or disability has equal access to careers, right. And that is our purpose. That is our mission as a company, and we attract people who also believe in that mission. So now companies need to look and say, Well, what's our purpose as a company? Is it to sell lamps or, you know, sell alcohol? What is it? What is your mission, because once you get that people will go, Yeah, I believe in that too. And I want to work for that. And especially with a veteran, if you've got a veteran who goes, actually, I'm very, very passionate about what you're trying to do, especially around sustainability, stuff like that. You've just given them a purpose, you've given them a mission, and they will be the best employee you've ever had. And it's just not. It's just not educated, we're just not educated in the business world. We're scaring them, where we should be educating them. That's why I exist now. You know, this is why I do podcast like this, I speak to MPs or speak to businesses and speak to business owners and, you know, work with the Armed Forces covenant. And when I was very proud, actually last year, because I think we're probably I'm not sure I might be wrong, but I think we're probably one of if not the only company that's gone Bronze, Silver, Gold as a startup, for years on the balance of the Armed Forces covenant, you know, now where we've like Barclays, and people like that, who you big companies, Jacobs, you've all got gold, and there's little old us, you know, like I, we're starting we live in, I think that's a testament to, to that personal mission of educating the world on just how valuable veterans can be. But also educating that veteran who might be in a really crap place on just how valuable they are. They just haven't discovered it yet. Or they haven't been discovered yet. So discover it in yourself. And very quickly, other people will discover that you never look back. That's simply

Steve Bomford: 52:47

Wow. I mean, I couldn't agree more with all of that. I think, you know, either many people have said very similar stories in terms of, you know, pigeon holing mental health and what it is, and you're right. I think our media driven landscape presents some very sort of binary choices around what anything is, but in the veteran sphere, you know, there are many terms of phrase that are, you know, highly inappropriate to be quite honest, and just doesn't are not representative of the of the wider population. So I think you're absolutely right. I think we should probably wrap it up there, Peter, because I think we could talk about this for hours and hours and hours. And I think we should, but I don't think everyone would listen to us.

peter Kelly: 53:27

If they haven't turned off already, yeah, they

Steve Bomford: 53:29

probably all tuned out. That's been absolutely brilliant. I'm really looking forward to hearing about these challenges as well, we must stay in touch. And I think if you're up for it, and I include your drive in your ambulance as well, I think that's probably have a few stories in there that you're not expecting that we should catch up again, maybe in a few months time, and revisit all of this. And I think we I would love to have more of a conversation with you, obviously outside of this recording. So we can talk about a few things. I think it'd be fascinating. I just like to say once again, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

peter Kelly: 54:03

Thank you and if anyone wants to follow me on social media and just get hold of me I talk to people all the time if they're struggling or they need just some advice and if it's just on business then feel free.

Steve Bomford: 54:13

Okay, cool. If you if you you can send me whatever your links you like and then we'll we can set them in the description below. So if there's anything that Peter has talked about in this episode, if you're still listening to us, it will be in the in the link in the description below the links be in the description below. Click away and get in touch with Peter, thank you very much.

peter Kelly: 54:31

Even if you think I'm talking rubbish, just come and talk.

Steve Bomford: 54:36

Even if you think you've opened the floodgates now, okay, listeners, do it.

peter Kelly: 54:41

Brilliant. Thank you.

Steve Bomford: 54:45

Well, there was a lot to digest in there wasn't there Mike? He likes to chess. I think we know that's a fact but some pretty serious stuff as well.

Mike Davis-Marks: 54:54

Amazingly serious stuff. I mean, I read the article before you record To the podcasts, and there's an awful lot of layers and depth in that. But I think the the podcast brought it all to life. And there's a huge amount that he covered over a relatively short period of time I was, it was really incredible.

Steve Bomford: 55:16

It was quite a life story as well, I think, you know, it's that story, again of, you know, people kind of joining the military to, to help as well. And he talks a lot about purpose as he our mission, as Peter called out.

Mike Davis-Marks: 55:31

Yeah, I mean, I mean, there's lots of things, we commented on a split, we won't have time to cover it at all. But in short, here's a person who's had two successful careers, one in the Royal Marines, and then one, now in business, and in largely both, he was unprepared for both and has more or less got to him through sheer effort and determination. It's an incredible story of someone battling against the odds, and then coming, you know, rising to the top as a result of hard work, sheer hard work and determination.

Steve Bomford: 56:05

Yeah, never ever give up. I think, isn't that Mr. Churchill?

Mike Davis-Marks: 56:08

Yeah, well, it could be Mr. Peter Carey, as well, a bit. I mean, I there was so much to go through there that you did actually raise one point which I was going to raise, which is he kept on rightly talking about sense of purpose or mission, as you called it. And, you know, he knew what his mission or his sense of purpose was in the Royal Marines. That was very clear to him. But actually, he struggled awfully when he left the Marines. And he felt it was very strong. It was very important to try and find what it was in his post raw Marines career. And I think he's now found it, although, as you said, it's a journey. He's on a journey, and it's a live journey that's still, you know, you could I think you called it a live project, you called him a life project. And it's, and it's still working progress.

Steve Bomford: 57:00

Sounds like I put him in a petri dish or petri dish, however, you say that.

Mike Davis-Marks: 57:04

I suspect you could never confine Pete Kenny to a Petri dish anyway. No, but I thought there was a lot of points he made about sense of purpose. One point at the end, which really resonated with me, was he was talking about how quickly civilian employers pitch in ex military. And, you know, and, and I think you use the word pigeonhole. But, you know, you know, we are a bunch that suffered from PTSD, as if that was a sort of universal limitation to us, we're actually it's a very inaccurate description of what what's going on. And therefore, the employers reticent to do that. And I thought that that was a really interesting point he met about if employers could get around that and employ and give the person space to grow, actually, they'll probably get one of the best employers they've ever had.

Steve Bomford: 57:56

Yeah, it's kind of been accepted as a universal truth by the media. And I think that obviously, it influences employers that have no experience of having probably met people that served in the armed forces.

Mike Davis-Marks: 58:08

Yeah, that's true. And I suspect that we have a slightly different perspective, because the whole purpose of company and makers is to address the problems around Ministry of mental health and make people more aware that they are and they're much more complex than the PTSD, but also to get veterans and even serving members to, to make make it okay to be not okay to come forward and say, I've got a problem. So we tend to, you know, our circle of people that we tend to talk to in this sphere, tends to be, you know, tends to be more afflicted by this, then perhaps the norm.

Steve Bomford: 58:47

Yeah, I think that's true. But I think also, it's not all about PTSD by any stretch of the imagination. I think they're, the challenges of life present themselves at unexpected times. And you know, I think Peters a really good example of that, because obviously, his child wasn't that great, that's not service attributable in any way, shape, or form. And in fact, in some ways, probably has informed his later life as an end, it doesn't mean to say that the troubles that people are experiencing are service attributable at all. I mean, some are, of course, but the majority now.

Mike Davis-Marks: 59:18

Yeah, I mean, I It's a good point. And I think that those people that are listening to this podcast, should go on to Pete Kenny's LinkedIn profile and read the article that he wrote. It's a, I mean, it's a harrowing tale. But it's authentic. And, you know, and he put his heart and soul into writing it. It was, I think, therapeutic to him in actually getting it out on paper that the first time he'd actually put it on paper. It was his words and your podcast is a very, very brief thing to do. To put it out there like he has done and I would encourage everyone listening us to go and find it and read it. Press. We'll put a link to that at the end of this

Steve Bomford: 1:00:00

Slowly, yes, I would encourage I mean, it's very difficult to talk about without reading it without because I think you need to read it in its entirety to give people give people context. But yes, we will put the link to the blog post on LinkedIn in the description below.

Mike Davis-Marks: 1:00:14

A couple of other things that I'd like to talk about. One is leadership, and the other is his his day job employable. On the leadership front, I think what he's doing is one of the prime examples of great leadership. So he's decided to go and spend three months driving an ambulance round Wales. He's doing that now. I think, and he's given up, he hasn't given up, he's stood back from being CEO of his company. He's got he's doing it because the NHS in his eyes, and everyone's eyes is under stretch. And if he can alleviate that, and let him bring, you know, and help people deliver the service better, then then he's achieved that in his three months of volunteering. He's doing it as an Army Reserves. It's not voluntary, but he's doing it as a Royal Marine Reserve, sorry. But what I really really liked is that he's, and you picked up on this, he stepped away from his business, appointed his CEO, Marina to be his standing CEO. And he's very happy about that. And he's not trying to interfere, he's not going along, handled screwdrivers, try and control it from Wales. And he even said, and this is the best best bit of leadership I've ever heard. If he gets back, and the company's being run better than when it was when he was CEO. He's gonna step away and let's crack on with it. I can think of no better example of leadership, then allowing, firstly, the delegation to allow that to happen, and not feel that you have to be in control. But also to admit there are better people that are doing the job, when they prove it and not try and muscle back in again,

Steve Bomford: 1:02:00

are going to have to defer to your your greater knowledge on leadership than mine. But yes, it does sound that way. Absolutely. I think he got called up, do you get called up as a reservist? I think he volunteered. But either way, I think it let's, let's see, because he did agreed that we would stay in touch. And I can't wait to hear the stories from his three months driving gig. And whether he did manage to, to do what he set out to do in terms of his business as well.

Mike Davis-Marks: 1:02:28

I suspect that will be the case. But the proof will be in the pudding, as you say so no, but it's a great thing to do. And, and, and my all Hats off to him for actually just letting his company get on with it. He's built the team. And they're going to run it in his in his absence. And he trusts them. And I think that's a great, that's a great ability of a leader. The other thing is, and I think the work he's doing, but you know, not the analysts driving, but his is in the main business, he runs employable, employable me. I'd really encourage listeners to kind of have a look at that. Because I I've got I've downloaded the app, and I've used it. And it's a remarkable piece of tech that really does make the whole process of trying to find out what you what you're good at and what you can do. Much more straightforward and simpler. So implausible. It's called and I think even put a link to that as well. But I would welcome you know what people think about that. So have a look at the app. Download it, it's free, as Pete says, and and see what it can do. Because I think it's gonna, I think it's going to take over the world. I think it's brilliant. Well, I'm guilty

Steve Bomford: 1:03:43

of not having downloaded it. But I think this idea that people, when you're particularly they leave the armed forces and don't know how their skills could be applied or phrased in the right way to convert them to civilian ease is often a problem. That's a very kind of common refrain that you hear.

Mike Davis-Marks: 1:04:00

Guess what, of course, the reason that came into being is this, his own transition from Royal Marines, to civvy street var a year of unemployment and a three month horrendous experience in his first job was so traumatic that he thought there must be a better way of doing it. So he's, he was driven to producing the app for based on his own experience, but actually, the people that have benefited now are not actually ex military, although I'm sure some are, you know, he's got 18 contracts with DWP, for instance. You know, he's working with NHS Trust. He's got 200 I think he said, investors you know, some of them quite small, but nevertheless, there you know, there are people backing this. So I think it's gone much wider than than just simply transition from military to civilian. I think it's, it's becoming a tool that actually, you know, the Department of Work and Pensions will, you know, probably put in their arsenal as a as a main battle tank to come.

Steve Bomford: 1:04:59

Yeah. I would agree he's definitely a rising star and one to watch for the future. I somehow suspect we'll be talking to Peter again in the not too distant future.

Mike Davis-Marks: 1:05:08

I hope so I, I think he's an inspiration. My last thing is really just to say that I think that there are a lot of points raised in this podcast that will give people pause to think. And I think if you've got any thoughts about what's been said, you want to discuss any of the issues that have been raised, it'd be great to hear what you think. So on one of the social media channels that you push out, Steve, it'll be great if the listeners could come back with what they think about what they've heard, or have they've had any similar experiences. So really, just a shout out to all the listeners and saying, if you've got a story, then use one of the social media platforms that this is broadcast on. And let us know what your story is.

Steve Bomford: 1:05:55

Absolutely. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, I forget them all now, but it's at company of makers.

Mike Davis-Marks: 1:06:03

Yes. Well, let's let's let's hear from you. It would be great to have a conversation about this. Because I think what what paetynn over all of your guests have raised over the course of the last two years, has been some stimulating dialogue and some really thought provoking ideas and stories.

Steve Bomford: 1:06:23

Absolutely. And a really interesting and fascinating group of people. Yes, but listeners, please do get in touch. We want to hear from you. This is our new idea, isn't it? My

Mike Davis-Marks: 1:06:34

It's our new best idea of the day. Yes. Let's let's do it. Let's do it. Everyone. Come on, man. Let us know what you think.

Steve Bomford: 1:06:41

Yes, that would be great. Please do. Thanks again. Mike.

Mike Davis-Marks: 1:06:45

You're most welcome, Steve.

Rachel Owen: 1:06:50

Thanks for listening. The Royal Navy and Royal Marines charity exists to support sailors Marines and their families for life. If you or someone you know could do with some support, give them a call on Oh 239-387-1568 Or drop them an email on support at rn rmc.org.uk. If you enjoyed this podcast and want to hear more, please Subscribe.