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The Obs Pod
The Obs Pod
Episode 177 Be the Difference a chat with Catherine
In this episode recorded for baby Loss Awareness week 2024, Join us as Catherine MacLennan from the Vilomah Foundation opens up about her personal journey through pregnancy loss and the varied care she received.
Catherine’s story underscores the emotional toll and disparities in care, urging for a more empathetic approach in maternity services. We discuss the 2016 project, Nobody's Patient, and its enduring impact on bereavement care. From workshops in South West London to the importance of active bereavement teams in every hospital, Catherine emphasizes the significance of individualised care.
As Baby Loss Awareness Week and the Wave of Light event on October 15th approach, we reflect on the evolution of the Vilomah Foundation & its work. Providing virtual sessions for greater accessibility , Catherine introduces their new workplace training initiative, designed to spread awareness and support across various settings. This episode is a testament to resilience and the transformative power of community and understanding in the face of profound loss. As Catherine says ' Be the difference'.
https://thevilomahfoundation.org.uk/
https://babyloss-awareness.org/
Find Catherine X @thevilomah, FB & Insta The Vilomah foundation, or email hello@thevilomahfoundation.org.uk
Thank you all for listening, My name is Florence Wilcock I am an NHS doctor working as an obstetrician, specialising in the care of both mother and baby during pregnancy and birth. If you have enjoyed my podcast please do continue to subscribe, rate, review and recommend my podcast on your podcast provider.
If you have found my ideas helpful whilst expecting your baby or working in maternity care please spread the word & help theobspod reach other parents or staff who may be interested in exploring all things pregnancy and birth.
Keeping my podcast running without ads or sponsorship is important to me. I want to keep it free and accessible to all but it costs me a small amount each month to maintain and keep the episodes live, if you wish to contribute anything to support theobspod please head over to my buy me a coffee page https://bmc.link/theobspodV any donation very gratefully received however small.
Its easy to explore my back catalogue of episodes here https://padlet.com/WhoseShoes/TheObsPod I have a wide range of topics that may help you make decisions for yourself and your baby during pregnancy as well as some more reflective episodes on life as a doctor.
If you want to get in touch to suggest topics, I love to hear your thoughts and ideas. You can find out more about me on Twitter @FWmaternity & @TheObsPod as well as Instagram @TheObsPod and e...
Hello, my name's Florence. Welcome to the OBS pod. I'm an NHS obstetrician hoping to share some thoughts and experiences about my working life. Perhaps you enjoy Call the Midwife. Maybe birth fascinates you, or you're simply curious about what exactly an obstetrician is. You might be pregnant and preparing for birth. Perhaps you work in maternity and want to know what makes your obstetric colleagues tick. Or you work in maternity and want to know what makes your obstetric colleagues tick, or you want some fresh ideas and inspiration. Whichever of these is the case and, for that matter, anyone else that's interested, the OBS pod is for you. Episode 177 be the difference a chat with katherine. Today we are welcoming to the podcast katherine mckennan the V the Foundation, and I've known Catherine for some years and she's absolutely helped pioneer some work, particularly with the gap between gynecology and maternity services and mid-trimester, so middle of pregnancy loss, and I'm very excited to have her here today. Catherine, do you want to maybe say a little bit about who you are?
Catherine:Yeah, well, Catherine and I'm founder of the V Foundation, which is a charity that supports people who've gone through pregnancy loss, but also people who are pregnant after loss, and we offer free one-to-one and group support to those people as and when they need it people um, as and when they need it.
Florence:Fantastic, and I've seen you're busy on instagram and there are lots of eventbrite links people can can book into.
Catherine:Yeah, to get that support just on the website, which is wwwthevilomahfoundationorguk. Um. Anyone who wants to access the service, the links on that page perfect, and i can put that link into the, the show notes.
Florence:So I'm going to go back in time a little bit, because we first met via jill jill phillips, aka, whose shoes, and she met you on a train.
Catherine:Yes, tell us a little bit about that train journey, sort of like seen Gill seen and communicated with her in the twitterverse and we were at a twitter event in manchester I think it was, and at the end of the day we were both going to get the train and we were actually getting the same train. So we sat together and I found out a little bit more about what she was doing with the who shoes, maternity and I shared my story with her. I think she's probably the only person that sat and listened through my whole story, so it's sort of like, yeah, I bent her ear a bit for the whole journey back, but it was sharing my story. So I've experienced six pregnancy losses. Three of those are in the second trimester and I'd had very different experiences of care. So sometimes it was very, very good and sometimes it was very, very bad. And that's what I was sharing with Gill was those experiences and particularly around how I was treated when I went through my second trimester loss through gynae and how I was treated when I went through my second trimester loss with the bereavement suite. So the experiences were so, so different.
Catherine:And when we , Gill talking, was her brain. You could see her brain was turning over and you know she was up to something. And at the end of the journey she just said to me I don't know if there's anything I can do, but if I do think of anything that I can help, you know with you, I'll get in touch. And I thought, well, shared my story, you know it's'll get in touch. And I thought, well, shared my stories, you know it's there, it's done, and didn't really think much more of it. And then I got a phone call to say, flo, and I've been talking and at this point I knew you through Twitter as well, but I hadn't actually met you at this point and I've had this idea and she said we're going to do a who's Shoes special which will look at.
Catherine:One of the threads that they look at is people who've experienced second trimester loss, people who've experienced second trimester loss. And that just began a huge journey into what turned out to be an amazing resource, but was an amazing experience as well. So we met up and I got together a small group of people who I knew through the support work that I was doing, who'd experienced a second trimester loss as well, and she came along with Anna, the amazing illustrator, and we just explored what the loss meant to us and it was in a really amazing space called Shakti Women um, unfortunately it doesn't exist anymore, but the room itself was very empowering because it had lots of really great signs like just images of affirmations and things like that. So there was a very positive vibe in the room, that it was a safe environment. And so there were six of us and we just explored what our losses had meant to us, what we've been through, the things that had caused us distress. Everyone in the room had post-traumatic stress disorder from their losses and none of us really had had any support following our losses. We'd been left abandoned to just get on with life and navigate that ourselves. And it was. There was laughter, there was tears, but it was a really empowering space to be in. And Anna captured all of that in an amazing graphic.
Catherine:And we looked at things like language. Particularly Language was a huge thing and I know that that's been quite big in the maternity workshops that have been done around whose shoes in other areas as well. But phrases like incompetent cervix, spontaneous abortion, things like that had been used in our experiences of of our losses and it felt quite sort of like brushed aside, that it wasn't really anything to worry about and you know it's just one of these things that happens, whereas for you it's a devastating experience and there wasn't the support in place there to do that. And we all had different experiences from being in gynecology or being each hospital was different, so some people were seen under gynecology, or being each hospital was different, so some people were seen under gynecology, some people were seen under maternity services delivery suite, so it depended on how many weeks you were as to where you got seen, and that was quite distressing for for everybody, because some people had actually been on a ward, on a maternity ward.
Catherine:I myself was on a bay with other women who had had hysterectomies and um polyps removed and you know, sort of like it was just the worst place to be and you know, sort of like everybody did their rounds and you were just left to your own devices, really, um, so yes, we from that jill did her magic, which amazes me how she does it, because the cards that she developed for the who shoes project were just so spot on.
Catherine:I remember the first workshop that I helped facilitate and reading the card and thinking gosh that is straight from my mouth and you know, sort of like thinking gosh, she really did, you know, sort of like captured the moment, because that's exactly what I said. And so the Nobody's's patient, we launched it and it was just brilliant to be in the room that first session that we did, which was was it St George's, uh? We did Kingston and St George's, yeah. And just to be in a room full of professionals and bereaved parents and to see the conversations just coming out and people really really thinking through their own practice of what they do was really really special you're right.
Florence:What happened sort of from my side was this maternity MATEXP challenge fund came out I think it was about a week after you'd Gill and and we were thinking, oh, how do we put in a bid for this? What would we like to do to kind of develop some further resources on top of the the work we'd already done in maternity? And it was your story and Lee Kendall's story. Yeah, that that just immediately we both thought these are women that are falling through gaps in care, women that are between gynecology and maternity, and women that are falling through gaps in care, women that are between gynecology and maternity, and women that are between neonatal and maternity and women that are between critical care and maternity. And the Nobody's Patient title came from a tweet.
Florence:Someone wrote that I saw about feeling like she was nobody's patient and your story was so powerful. I mean, I've I I definitely have learned a lot from you. And even now there's that arbitrary before 18 weeks is gynecology and after 18 weeks is maternity, and it's just a line in the sand, isn't it? And I definitely think things have changed as a result of our project. But also, people are still using the cards. So, like you say that stuff that came from your mouth that Gill and Anna and we captured with you. People are still using it in workshops. For example, Gill and I just did a series of workshops in South West London and Croydon decided to focus on the Nobody's Patient resources for their workshop, so that's a whole another team suddenly exploring that topic and those issues. The the project was 2016, but the ripples are still going absolutely and that's great.
Catherine:That's what's you know, sort of like the fact that people are still using the game to explore the issues. And you know, and they are still there. Although things have, you know, as you said, they've changed immensely since since then, it still reminds people that these things are not in our distant past. You know they, they were things that happened a few years ago. Yeah, we need to make sure that they don't slowly breed back into the environment that they're working in.
Florence:Yes, yeah, I wanted. I was kind of reflecting a bit for today and I was thinking from my perspective. I feel like there've been quite a few changes in the years since we started working together and I was interested to know whether you feel that as well, because you know that's the power of co-production, isn't? It is a doctor can say, well, we've made this, that and the other improvement, but actually do you feel that there have been positive changes?
Catherine:I think with the national care movement pathway that it's really highlighted the need for care across gynae and maternity and I think, with you know sort of like I think every hospital in England's now signed up to it. So that gives very clear guidance on how people should be interacting with people who've experienced loss and I think it's working. From what sort of like what I hear it's working. But I think that's where those are the places that have actually the hospitals that have invested in their bereavement teams. So where bereavement teams are very active, then it seems to have made a huge impact. Yes, not every hospital has a full-time bereavement team.
Florence:Yes, so until everywhere has a full-time bereavement team, then there'll still be gaps in the service yes, and it's interesting because I was thinking, the very last workshop I helped lead before the pandemic was march 2020 and we were like, should we shouldn't? We was colchester, and that was jointly with SANS, the stillbirth and neonatal um death association, and, uh, in Colchester looking at the national bereavement care pathway using the nobody's patient resources. So it's, it's absolutely. You're right, there's still too much variation, isn't there?
Catherine:yeah, and I think, sort of you know, there's still that thing between the cut-off stages of what's gynae and what's maternity. Every hospital does need to have a bereavement suite that just deals with loss. Yes, um, that isn't about what department. Yes, it falls under. Yeah, or there has to be a parity between how people who go through earlier losses and people who go through later losses are treated. Yes, and not.
Catherine:Everybody wants to be, not ever. I mean, the other side of it is not everybody wants to be on a bereavement suite. Yes, some people just want to get into hospital, get out, be over a runway. So I think there has to be respect for those people that choose not to. Yes, go through that, it does have to be a choice. Um, I know, I found it very difficult on the bereavement suite because there was a book of people who'd been there previously and written messages in it and it was just like to me. That was just. It overwhelmed me that you know, there was this book of all these babies who died. Yes, but then the sort of like being away from the ward and the delivery suite meant that I wasn't interrupted. Yes, it's babies.
Florence:Yes, yeah, I mean, it's back to the same for everything, isn't it? It's about individualized, personalized care, yeah, of what's right for you in that moment and you staff being able to offer you choices and read.
Florence:You know what works for you, what doesn't work for you yeah because I agree, I've, I've had certainly looked after people who are I don't want to see my baby, I don't want to do anything, I don't want any memories. And then others who may have had a much earlier pregnancy loss, but who feel they do need something tangible. They do need something tangible and I think we can be still quite dismissive, particularly of of early loss or earlier Maybe I should say earlier, like first trimester, that's still potentially two or three months of there's that visualization, isn't there three months of there's that visualization, isn't there? Imagination of that baby?
Catherine:that you imagined you were going to have, and I think that that's the thing is most people are. They're trying to have a baby, so they've gone through an emotional process of saying, right, we're ready, this is what we want. And then, when you get the pregnancy test, straight away you're you've got dates in your head and so you've got the dates for your scans, you've got the dates for your due date, and then you know you're thinking ahead to right, what skills am I going to need to think about? And you know all of those things come into play within those first few weeks of a pregnancy. So it's not just that they've lost a two-week pregnancy, they've lost all of those hopes and dreams that they had with it. And I think that's where the impact of a pregnancy loss isn't recognized. Um, for, as for why it does, you know, impact people who do have those earlier losses. And you know, sort of like, where people have had a scan, maybe at six weeks, because they've had a bleed and they've seen a heartbeat. You know they've seen a heartbeat. So when they lose their baby at eight weeks, it it wasn't expected because they'd seen a heartbeat.
Catherine:Yes, and you know, sort of like, we get told not to tell anybody before 12 weeks and I really don't agree with that. It's a very personal thing and I think people have the choice to tell or not tell. But I think by telling people you have that support in place if things do go wrong. Yes, yeah, um, I'm not saying tell the world and, you know, do a Facebook, you know, sort of announcement, but to tell people who are close to you so that if things do go wrong you've got some support in place yes, yeah, that's very true, and I definitely see that, even later than 12 weeks, women saying but, but I hadn't told work yet.
Florence:Yeah, and then there's that thing of how do I explain not only am I suddenly off sick, but the emotion you you might be going through when you've been pregnant for four or five months but nobody knew. And then I know you've been doing some work with organizations in terms of well, how do you care for that person that's working for you if they're in that situation? And I think there's a lot there. I remember vividly the thing from you about the social media posts. Back to school time, september, here's my little gorgeous child going back to school or starting reception.
Florence:And I really remember you putting out a post which was your six children that obviously were not going to school, and you I can't remember if they were silhouettes, but do you remember what I mean? You had a picture of six children not babies, children that you'd lost and that weren't able to have that back to school celebration, et cetera, and I found that immensely powerful. There was something about that that in my brain some something flipped in terms of how I understood what you'd been through. I think, yeah, and I think for everyone it's different, isn't it? But I'm quite a visual person, so maybe that's why that post and that picture kind of made me suddenly think wow, oh yes yeah, I think that's, you know, sort of like, especially when you're pregnant and somebody else is pregnant.
Catherine:So I've always been pregnant when somebody else is pregnant. That's close to me. So you see them going to nursery, you see them going to school and last year I was having a wobble and I was trying to work out why. And it was like I was messaging my niece to say how's it going with your studying for your GCSEs? And then it hit me that I should have been sitting with my child helping them through their GCSEs. Yes, because they would have only been two months difference in their age, right. So it was like, even though it was 16 years ago, yes, it still hit me because it's like I haven't experienced that. You know, pregnancy loss took away that journey in life. Yes, it just took that away from me.
Catherine:And it's things like that of you know, sort of like friends who are going into high school talking about their options for what they want to do, and it's just sometimes it's just that little stab in the heart. Yeah, you know, sort of like. It's not a con like I don't think sit in my diary and think, right, today would have been you know, so like, because I think sometimes people get that impression that's what you do, but it isn't. Yeah. It is that sort of like you're just doing something and then obviously it'll be yeah. Ah, I should have been doing this with yeah and I'm not. Yes, and there's a sadness there.
Florence:Yes, you know, but with the years it doesn't break you like it did in the early days yeah, I'm really struck by the fact that you said when you had that specific focus group that everyone had PTSD from their experiences. So that's like you're adding on top of the physical trauma of losing a child. You're adding from the care I say care slightly in inverted commas from the care and treatment you've had, where then it's almost adding insult to injury by traumatising people psychologically.
Catherine:Yeah, it is very. You know, some pregnancy losses can be extremely traumatic and for a lot of years that wasn't recognised by my mental health team. They were just all just got complex grief, right. You know, I was really struggling with flashbacks, like I couldn't get out of the house because certain noises would trigger me and it took for me to actually. I ordered a book off on offline on PTSD, yeah, and how to manage it, and I thought this speaks to me more than anything spoken to me, and I went back to my psychologist and said this is really helping me. This is, you know, something like if I go through this list, this is what I've been through. And then they started working with me around PTSD.
Catherine:But that was, you know, that was a good four years before they did that. Wow, so you've got. I'm with me as well, because I'd gone through six losses, although the last two there wasn't any trauma involved. They were earlier losses, but I had four, you know, very serious traumatic events in my life. Yeah, that had happened in a short period of time.
Catherine:Yes, and for nobody to pick that up, yes and for me to have to actually diagnose myself yeah you know, was a huge gap in the service and that's some of the work that, when I was um, when I did the pinks and blues CIC was something that I worked very hard on was to get mental health services to acknowledge that pregnancy loss can be traumatic. Yes, and I know that work has continued even though I haven't been involved in it. Yes, that's that's. Another positive is that you know that recognition is is now there that mental health services, yeah, as a primary or secondary, address the trauma that's attached to a pregnancy loss yes, and I mean that has been fantastic.
Florence:I mean we've now got new services in my area that are specifically for pregnancy loss or pregnancy trauma, and it's making a difference. Undoubtedly it's making a difference. So I agree that's another really positive change, and one of the other changes I was thinking about was the ability to get a baby loss certificate. Yeah, I don't know how you feel about that yeah, I've.
Catherine:I was one of the people that was really on the fence about it because, okay. So my concern was that it would lead to anti-abortion and people wanting by saying if you're recognising it as lie, then that would impact the Abortion Act. So that was where my hesitation was about it, because I believe that everybody has a choice yes, and that choice should be there for them whatever stage they are in their pregnancy. And so I was very much on the fence about it, because I wondered if there was another agenda to actually putting it forward or something. Putting it forward or something. It's not something I personally wanted when I went through my losses, because the hospital gave me a little certificate, yes, so and I had something from the funeral directors as well. So I had things and at the end of the day, I know what I went through yes, um, I don't need a piece of paper to tell me that, but I know it's brought great comfort to a lot of people and when I'm working with people now, I'll say to them have you applied for, is it something you would like to do? Yes, I can explain that. You know it is there.
Catherine:If they wish to, some say yes, I, I would really like that. That'd be really helpful. Other people say, no, I don't need it. Yeah, so it's. You know, as long as it stays a personal choice, yes, then then I'm happy with that. I, you know, sort of like, I don't want to see legislation that everybody has to, because I think even some parents of stillbirth really don't want to have to do that whole registering. And you know it's really distressing.
Catherine:Um, yes, so I do think it has to stay a personal choice.
Florence:Yes, yeah, so we're recording this partly we wanted to catch up, but also we're going to release this for baby loss awareness week. Yeah, tell me a little bit about baby loss awareness week, what that means to you when I had my losses I didn't know anything about pregnancy loss awareness week.
Catherine:It was a lot of years later that I found out that it was something that happened. And again, it's something that I have two thoughts on. One is that it can be so overwhelming. When you see all of the posts, it can be quite triggering on social media. So I tend to have a bit of a social media break for myself. Obviously I can't have a total social media break because I have to do social media. Yes, the loma foundation.
Catherine:But what I found in the in the past is I always take a few days off after Baby Loss Awareness Week just to regroup and just to sort of like reflect on on what's happened during the week. But I think what for me is the wave of light. I just find that's such a special special event and that happens on the 15th at seven o'clock. Wherever in the world you are, it's seven o'clock and it's that constant wave of light going around the world remembering all those babies lost, and that to me is is really beautiful and I look absolutely love that evening and I get my candles out and I do a little sort of like memorial display type thing and you know, sort of I I connect with my babies and I think about them, but I also think about all of the other people who are experiencing that. You know those people who are going through it for the first time. You know what it must be like for them having, you know, to be part of that club. You know the club nobody wants to join and I think it is really important to have an awareness week because people are more open about it and it helps people, those who are in your network to understand what baby loss is about. And you know, I think it it challenges workplaces to really think about how they support their staff. I think it challenges the hospitals to recognise it.
Catherine:I think one of the things that I found really difficult was in my local hospital on Baby Loss Awareness Week. It was in a little room away from the main hospital and I was like well, you didn't do that for Down Syndrome Day, you didn't do that for Prematurity Awareness. Why are you doing that? Why is it not in the foyer where people will see it? Yes, you know, sort of like that's changed now it is.
Catherine:You know it is a hospital-wide event and, yes, it gives an opportunity as well, for hospitals to put on their own services, which I think is really nice. I think it's, you know, sort of like to actually meet with the staff who supported you on your journey, in that environment where you're remembering and you know that they're remembering with you. Yeah, I think is very special as well. Yeah, um, and you know the different ways that people are doing that it's, you know, sort of like. I struggle with it being in. Most of them are in churches. I, you know sort of like, because it's just, it's not inclusive. Yes, even though you can put on the sign all faiths welcome, you don't necessarily feel comfortable going into a particular building of worship. I do think you know it'd be nicer if they were at, you know, sort of like, other halls or yeah places that do events.
Florence:Yeah, I'm not so religious focused yes, I agree, I agree with you. The wave of light is really powerful and I quite like that in the same way you've just talked about for the staff, because I personally have not experienced baby loss myself, but I have experienced a lot of baby loss at my work and I'm able to participate in that wave of light and I can tell you, I can name a lot of babies yeah and that it's really nice to do that wave of light and and think about them, because it does does emotionally touch you as a member of staff.
Florence:We're human, but I always find it slightly tricky because it's a taboo subject and we need to talk about it. And I have people that come to clinic and go. Until I experienced it and lost my own baby, I didn't really know about it, and now everyone's talking to me about it because everyone's coming out of the woodwork and sharing their stories and so it's so important to have that week. But equally, like you say, you don't want to overwhelm people and you don't want to frighten people who are currently pregnant. It's, it's a hard, it's a hard balance. It really is a hard balance, but it's. I think it's such a great thing to do.
Florence:Um, I can see why it'd be triggering and I can see why you might need a rest from it or take time out of it, because it it's so widespread, isn't it? Um, and the lighting up of buildings and all this stuff, that's kind of it's progressed to. It's a lot, but I I think it's something that I feel has grown and hopefully helped people be able to talk about, about their, their loss. So tell me a little bit the Vilomah Foundation. So the first thing I'm interested in is what's the name? Vilomah Foundation? Where did, where does that come from? Right are?
Florence:you able to share that yeah, I am, I'll just.
Catherine:I always forget exact wording, so I'll just okay tell me, tell me, why the Vilomah Foundation so?
Catherine:as you know, I previously had the pinks and blues as CIC and people had opinions about it being the pinks and blues and okay, I got that. My thing with the pinks and blues was that it was around the colors of the baby loss awareness yes, yes, and the pinks of the highs and the blues of the lows, yes, um, you know, sort of like the CIC ended due to Covid, and so I took some time out and was thinking what do I want to do? And the first thing was that I needed to look after myself. Yes, so I didn't do anything for about a year, I think it was, and then I started getting itchy feet again.
Catherine:I need to do something yeah and it hadn't worked as a cic for a number of reasons, but one of the main reasons was because we weren't a charity, people wouldn't fund us, okay, so the first step was I'm gonna set up a charity, right, and I was reading something and it had the Sanskrit word for it, and it was another foundation or something and it was in Sanskrit, and I thought, oh, I wonder if there's a Sanskrit word for pregnancy loss, right. So I searched online and it came up with Vilomah. Oh, okay, because it means against the natural order and is used to describe a parent who has lost a child. The word captures the idea that it's against nature for a child to die before their parents. Some say that the word helps to identify with the complex grief and joy that parents experience when they have a child and then lose them.
Florence:Wow, I'm blown away. That is, I had no idea what a powerful word and what a great name.
Catherine:So yeah. So it's sort of like. When I saw that, I was like this is just meant to be. Yes, because I've been struggling, you know, thinking of it's not like most baby loss charities will name them after their baby that they've lost because it's been a stillbirth yes, whereas I've got six. And who do I pick? Yes, you know, it's always been a bit of a dilemma for me, so yeah. So when I came across this word, I was like this is meant to be, this is yes, it's such a perfect um explanation of of what pregnancy loss is. Yes, because you know, we grow up with the fairy tales of everybody gets married, everybody has babies and everybody lives happily ever after.
Florence:Well, actually, it's not like that, for some people yes, what a brilliant name and you've managed to get some funding, I believe.
Catherine:Yes, I knew this time that I had to have a year's funding in place to go to make it, set it up and make it happen, and so we applied to Awards for All, which is part of the National Lottery's community fund, and we put in for, sort of like, my time to um, to project manage and publicity web page and volunteer expenses workspace for me so I can go to a core working space and I'm not at home all the time, and so we've got that and that's through till May next year. So we were really lucky to get that funding because it is really, you know, sort of like it meant that I didn't have to do the web page, for example, and these are, you know, sort of like the little things that make running a charity or a CIC difficult. Is you become the person that has to do everything? Yes, you have to do the social media. You have to sort of put in some funding for the web page to be done.
Catherine:Yes, and took a huge amount of work off me because I'm not the most IT proficient in terms of doing things like, yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so, things like that, and then just like the workspace, sort of like working from home. Some days I just need to go out of the house and, yes, in a space where I can just get my head down, yes, and get on with everything that's phenomenal.
Florence:You're so what's the word? I hate the word resilient, but it's. It's that thing of you're so determined, catherine, like I could see you when you popped up on social media as the Veloma Foundation. I was thinking, oh, what's Catherine, up to? This is a new chapter and you're just kind of pushing forward. Always I'm so admiring of your kind of grit and determination at improving things. Yeah, congratulations, it's amazing. And how's it going in terms of your sessions? Are you getting people?
Catherine:the word spreading. We sent out 3,000 leaflets to hospitals and GPs to let them know that we're offering the service. And we do it all via Zoom now as well, because that was the other thing with the pinks and blues was it was face-to-face. Venues were expensive. There'd be a two-hour session. Add on my travel time. In the end of that you've got, you've lost a day nearly. So doing it via zoom is so much more effective. Yes, time wise. And we have two. No, we have four pregnancy after loss groups a month and four pregnancy loss groups per month, and those are a maximum of 10 people in each group.
Catherine:Yes, and then I do individual one-to-one sessions for pregnancy loss or for pregnancy after loss um as well. Yeah, so that funding that we got means that I can actually put my time into doing those sessions. It's been a slow up take, yeah, but that's okay. I know that it takes time for word to get out and I'm not too worried about that. Yes, that you know. Word is now getting out and I'm going to be um. One of the things that the vilomah foundation does as well is workplace training. Yes, so one of the things is to offer workplaces some of those sessions to their staff. Yeah, as well to access. Yes, so we're getting out, the publicity's getting out by another avenue brilliant, really brilliant.
Florence:I'm really excited to see where you go next and and kind of, yeah, sky's the limit, yeah it is. It's really exciting so one of the things that came out of the nobody's patient project that we talked about earlier was a fantastic poem that Catherine wrote and read at the nobody's patient workshops, and it's a great poem because it really demonstrates what a difference any person can make in that journey, the little things that make a difference. So, catherine, would you like to read your poem?
Catherine:Yeah, such special people. The doctor who guided me through every aspect of my care and gently told me there was nothing that could be done for my baby. Who, when he returned on shift, came into my room and simply said I am so sorry. The paramedic who gently took our baby from my hands and said he would make sure our baby was looked after, but he needed to look after me right then. The A&E nurse who asked us if we would like to see our baby and hold her. The healthcare assistant who painstakingly tried to remove all traces of dry blood from me whilst allowing me my dignity.
Catherine:The student midwife who sat with me in the hours I still had hope and when that hope had gone. The midwife who brought our son to us, showing the utmost respect for him and us. The porter who gave my shoulder a squeeze when I was being taken for a scan. The consultant who rang every morning and night, despite having seen me at least three times during the day, and coming in on his weekend off to see how I was. The GPs who have just been there and fought for me when I couldn't do it for myself. The psychologist who went above and beyond to sit with me in my pain and sadness. The pathologist who arranged for us to bring our baby home and told my husband he knew the pain as he had been there too and it was okay for him not to be strong all the time, because he had been there too and it was okay for him not to be strong all the time.
Florence:It's such a wonderful poem, it's. It's so, so moving, so special, absolutely right, thank you you're welcome.
Catherine:I think it's just for all health professionals out there. It is that small thing that you can do yeah that can really make a difference to experience of care yeah, which sort of brings us to our zesty bit.
Florence:So our zesty bit is the end, what we want people to take away from our conversation and I guess one takeaway straight away is what you've just said. Then those little moments, those little things that show you care, that can make such a difference and hopefully not cause PTSD and and more trauma to the person going through that baby loss. But also, looking up the Vilomah Foundation might be another zesty bit. What do you think?
Catherine:Yeah, I think that I am there for support. The Vilomah Foundation is there to support people and, you know, if any health professionals have got any questions, I'm more than happy to discuss things with them, and if people can follow me on my social media, that would be really great to get the word out and to retweet and share on instagram. Things like that would be really, really helpful wonderful.
Florence:I will put all those links and how to get in touch with you, yeah, in the show notes for people, for people to do that. Hopefully, ripple out, ripple out and onwards. Thank you so so much, catherine. It's been so lovely to have a proper catch-up and it's so inspiring to see you carry on tirelessly, but I'm really glad that you're also looking after yourself. So thank you so much for spending the time talking to me and sharing your story and your journey with the listeners of the OBS pod thank you for having me, for inviting me to come and talk with you.
Catherine:I've really enjoyed it.
Florence:I very much hope you found this episode of the OBS pod interesting. If you have, it'd be fantastic if you could subscribe, rate and review, on whatever platform you find, your podcasts, as well as recommending the OBS pod to anyone you think might find it interesting. There's also tons of episodes to explore in my back catalogue from clinical topics, my career and journey as an obstetrician and life in the NHS more generally that I take confidentiality very seriously and take great care not to use any patient identifiable information unless I have expressly asked the permission of the person involved on that rare occasion when it's been absolutely necessary. If you found this episode interesting and want to explore the subject a little more deeply, don't forget to take a look at the program notes where I've attached some links. If you want to get in touch to suggest topics for future episodes, you can find me at TheObsPod, on Twitter and Instagram, and you can email me theobspod at gmailcom.
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