When the right to make decisions about one's body is wrestled away by an intimate partner, the shadows of domestic violence become even darker. Marium Durrani from the National Domestic Violence Hotline joins us to illuminate the often-overlooked issue of reproductive coercion and share the hotline's journey since its 1996 inception, including its response to over 6.8 million pleas for help. Amidst the complexities of this subtle abuse, we underscore the survivor's inherent right to self-determination, especially concerning their reproductive health, and the lifesaving importance of recognizing these manipulative tactics.
Survivor stories are more than just tales; they are stark reminders of the reality many face when trapped in relationships marred by reproductive coercion. As we hear these personal accounts, we confront the chilling effects of this abuse—from forced pregnancies to the psychological warfare of threats and societal pressures to remain silent. We dissect the abusive mindset that views reproductive control as a weapon, and discuss strategies to empower and protect those caught in such daunting circumstances.
Through the National Domestic Violence Hotline's user-friendly website and comprehensive services, we show that help is within reach for those facing domestic violence. Each story, each call for help, is a building block towards a future where violence and coercion have no place, and the hotline is at the forefront of this transformative mission.
When the right to make decisions about one's body is wrestled away by an intimate partner, the shadows of domestic violence become even darker. Marium Durrani from the National Domestic Violence Hotline joins us to illuminate the often-overlooked issue of reproductive coercion and share the hotline's journey since its 1996 inception, including its response to over 6.8 million pleas for help. Amidst the complexities of this subtle abuse, we underscore the survivor's inherent right to self-determination, especially concerning their reproductive health, and the lifesaving importance of recognizing these manipulative tactics.
Survivor stories are more than just tales; they are stark reminders of the reality many face when trapped in relationships marred by reproductive coercion. As we hear these personal accounts, we confront the chilling effects of this abuse—from forced pregnancies to the psychological warfare of threats and societal pressures to remain silent. We dissect the abusive mindset that views reproductive control as a weapon, and discuss strategies to empower and protect those caught in such daunting circumstances.
Through the National Domestic Violence Hotline's user-friendly website and comprehensive services, we show that help is within reach for those facing domestic violence. Each story, each call for help, is a building block towards a future where violence and coercion have no place, and the hotline is at the forefront of this transformative mission.
The subject matter of this podcast will address difficult topics multiple forms of violence, and identity-based discrimination and harassment. We acknowledge that this content may be difficult and have listed specific content warnings in each episode description to help create a positive, safe experience for all listeners.
Speaker 2:In this country, 31 million crimes 31 million crimes are reported every year. That is one every second. Out of that, every 24 minutes there is a murder. Every five minutes there is a rape. Every two to five minutes there is a sexual assault. Every nine seconds in this country, a woman is assaulted by someone who told her that he loved her, by someone who told her it was her fault, by someone who tries to tell the rest of us it's none of our business and I am proud to stand here today with each of you to call that perpetrator a liar.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the podcast on Crimes Against Women. I'm Maria McMullen. Maryam Durrani from the National Domestic Violence Hotline joins us for a conversation to increase the awareness of reproductive coercion within domestic violence. Maryam, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me, maryam. You are here to talk with us about the National Domestic Violence Hotline, which has played a major role in the domestic violence movement. Can you give us a sense of its history, what expansions have been made since inception and what is on the horizon for the near future for the hotline?
Speaker 3:So the National Domestic Violence Hotline is one of the largest service providers in the US for survivors of relationship abuse. The hotline has a really unique pulse on what's happening around the country, the challenges that survivors face with their partners who are choosing to cause harm. We serve hundreds of thousands of people each year and we receive calls from not only survivors but sometimes their families, their colleagues, sometimes even people who cause harm. Our services are always anonymous and always confidential. We just really believe in putting information back into the hands of survivors. We provide information, we provide support, we provide resources, safety planning.
Speaker 3:Our advocates who answer the lines are highly trained. We don't provide advice and we don't provide must-do options. We really trust survivors to do whatever is best for their own situation. So we opened in 1996 with a 1-800 number of survivors to contact us. Over time, as technology has improved, we've opened up additional lines of communication. With text messages, with chats, with more online resources, we can reach even more survivors. Since we've opened we have answered more than 6.8 million calls, chats and texts. In terms of a really unfortunate milestone that's upcoming is we're anticipating answering our 7th million call later this spring.
Speaker 1:That's incredible. The work that you do to help people who experience domestic violence is so critical, and to think it's only been in existence for a little under 30 years.
Speaker 3:Exactly, this country has made huge, huge strides in preventing and intervening in domestic violence, but unfortunately, at the hotline we see first hand how much further we still have to go and how many gaps there still are. So, really, really trying to improve systems for everyone.
Speaker 1:There are so many things that you're able to address on the hotline All the different types of domestic violence that we know of. It's not just physical abuse. It can be financial abuse, it can be stalking, it can be spiritual abuse. Then there's also something we don't typically hear about as a form of domestic violence and that is reproductive coercion. Can you help us identify what reproductive coercion is and how it relates to domestic violence?
Speaker 3:So reproductive coercion is a form of abuse in which one partner causes harm to another. It's typically by exerting power over another which is the basis of domestic violence, but it's over the other, through pressure to engage in sexual activity, refusing to use contraception, sabotaging contraception, restricting partners from seeing a healthcare provider and or restricting them from making critical healthcare decisions so really anything that has to do with someone's ability to reproduce. And unfortunately we're seeing more and more ways which partners who cause harm are using any tool available to them to use coercion as an abuse tactic. And we really believe at the hotline that central to one's ability to control their own life is the right to also control their own body. You know, the right to access reproductive healthcare. It's essential to living a life free from violence. You know. Unfortunately, we see that any time the abusive partners have more tools to control their partner, they use them.
Speaker 1:How is this kind of different from just sexual violence? Because sexual violence would be forcing someone to have sex when they don't want to or cannot or is medically incapable. But then this sounds like it goes one step further in that, you know, coercing someone into some type of sexual act, maybe when they are pregnant. Don't want to be pregnant. Tell us a little more about the distinctions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so for a lot of people, that idea, well, the active, the Engaging and some sexual activity could result in pregnancy.
Speaker 3:For some people could engage in that and For abusive partners, they want to use that to control their partners. That means it could be forcing someone to get pregnant, it could be forcing someone to get an abortion, it could mean Restricting access to birth control, contraceptive methods, to things like condoms, other prevention methods, forcing someone against their will. You know, it's all of those choices that really center around one's ability to reproduce and it takes up much further than sexual violence, which is sexual violence, of course, is equally Horrific, but it is more about the sexual activity that someone engages in, the reproductive coercion I think can be in some cases even more damaging because it could potentially tie a survivor to an abusive partner for the entire length of time that they have a child. So that could be 18 years of being tied to someone who you know Maybe choosing to cause harm to you and may potentially cause harm to that child and that abusive partner is Really really taking those choices away from you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there I mean, there's another distinction I was thinking of while you were talking about that, and that is how can you discern if this person really loves you and Wants to have children with you, versus they're trying to coerce you into having children when you don't want them? Are you able to make the distinction?
Speaker 3:So there's unfortunately no black and white rule and no easy way to make that quick assessment, and that's why we have highly trained advocates on the line all day, every day. There are behaviors that we look at, behaviors that are healthy, behaviors that may be more in the gray area, and then behaviors that fall Much, much more in line into toxic behaviors. But what we really look at is the spectrum of power and control. When someone has power over someone and they're exerting control over someone, we really see that as unhealthy behaviors, because a healthy relationship should have mutual respect, trust, you know, the autonomy for each person to make decisions for themselves, and what we see in abusive Partnerships. It could be anything from like you said.
Speaker 3:There's millions of different types of abuses, by financial abuse to talk abuse, to emotional abuse, but you can see it as innocuous as someone limiting. You know who they're able to engage with in social settings, versus Telling them that they have to deposit every paycheck in their account or physical violence. You know it really, really is spectrum, and I think what we want to do with the hotline is empower people to Understand what behaviors may be healthy and what may be your behaviors may be unhealthy, and help them make decisions that empower themselves to feel safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a really important resources because sometimes you, you know you can go with your gut on these things. I kind of know that something isn't right and we always encourage people to follow their instinct or their intuition. When something feels wrong, it probably is. But then Sometimes, you know, pointing to substantial resources or information is incredibly helpful just to validate those feelings and give people an opportunity to learn about, talk about or read about Some really specific information related to reproductive coercion.
Speaker 3:Building upon that. I mean, I think a lot of it is about consent, and what you really captured and kind of summarizing my points, is that when an abusive partner is kind of violating someone's ability to consent, that's when it becomes coercion.
Speaker 1:Give us an idea of the distinction between consent related to the act of sex and then consent that takes it a step further. As you know, part of the reproductive autonomy.
Speaker 3:The way that I would think about it is that a when an abusive partner is acting in a way that violates the survivor's consent, particularly around reproductive autonomy. So I think it's consent, both in sexual violence situations and also in the reproductive situations. But it's not just the equivalent of someone obtaining or not obtaining an abortion. It's interfering with someone's birth control Things like stelting that we see as becoming much more common, which is non-consensual removal of condoms or other birth control methods during the Octave Sox. It could mean preventing a survivor from seeking reproductive health care. It could mean going to a reproductive health care appointment and trying to influence the outcome. All of those sorts of examples got to the reproductive aspect of thought abuse.
Speaker 1:Can you give us a sense of how many calls the National Domestic Violence Hotline receives related to reproductive abuse?
Speaker 3:So we have always received calls from survivors talking about reproductive coercion, reproductive abuse, pregnancy-related calls, but I think one of the most stark examples that's important for the listeners to be aware of is that we saw a 98% increase in survivors actually mentioning reproductive coercion and or mentioning abortion as part of their experience in the year after the dog's decision, compared to the year prior. So, regardless of the reason why survivors are calling us, they're typically asking for information, for support, for resources or really trusting survivors to do whatever's best for them in their individual situation. And unfortunately, the landscape across the country looks really different in a lot of different places, so even the resources that people have available on the grounds can look totally different. But I have some stories that I can share from the lines. So, while every call is confidential, anonymous, sometimes their advocates report in their own words just a quick synopsis of callers, and I think that if I share some example it'll be illustrated a little bit more about what we're doing. Yeah, please, yeah. So this is as though it's in an advocate's word.
Speaker 3:An advocate said I had a chat last week from a woman who was reproductively coerced into getting pregnant at the age 18 by her then 29 year old boyfriend who told her multiple times he had been confirmed by his doctor as infertile. She eventually was able to get out of her visa relationship and get an abortion and she only chatted that she could tell her story to help someone and advocate for laws and legislation in a post-robe-weight environment. So again we see someone who's really coerced. Another person said. The person shared I've had an unplanned pregnancy and I told my boyfriend. He got so mad at me he accused of deliberately screwing up my contraception, called me a stupid C and he grabbed my neck and threw me across the wall and kept shouting at me that I had to get an abortion. She's staying with a friend but was unsure what to do next. We helped her safety plan and got resources on reproductive coercion and counseling. So another caller shared.
Speaker 3:This caller's partner is 18 years old. She shared many graphic details of the abuse. Her partner forced her to give him his birth control that she receives in the mail and she's now pregnant. She hasn't told anyone she's pregnant and she's terrified to tell her mother and other relatives. She says her family is against abortion and is going to force her to carry out the pregnancy. Her partner is threatened to kill her in the past and she's afraid that he will actually kill her if he finds out and tells anyone about the pregnancy.
Speaker 3:We talked about safety planning and ways that she can get other methods of support. She has the doctor's appointment coming up soon where she can get more resources. We also discussed stuff here and planned on what steps she could take next. So I have many more examples, but I don't think we need to share all of them. I think the stories are really harrowing in terms of what people experience, because we hear stories from people in all walks of life in all ages, experiencing all sorts of different things, and there's no one thing that people experience. Every survivor situation is so unique to themselves, and I think what all survivors need are just the options and the resources to stay safe, and what we're really seeing is the landscape around. What's available is really shifting around the country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. I like that you use the word options. You're not telling survivors what to do or what they should do or what's expected of them. You're going to turn her back into her hands to say these are the things that we know can work or that are possible and their options and so much. Like the hotline, the podcast on crimes against women and the conference on crimes against women and Genesis Women's Shelter and Support our parent organization. We do that in our work as well and we do not sit on one side of the fence or the other. Related to her actions related to abortion, how she chooses to conduct herself once she contacts us at Genesis or somehow through the conference or listen to this podcast. So we're just here to offer the landscape of what services are available for survivors and we're very similar and aligned with that process, like the National Domestic Violence Hotline offers. Do you have any statistics around reproductive abuse or reproductive coercion in an incident's rate?
Speaker 3:I think it's actually really hard to capture. I don't think there is accurate national data on that. The hotline's data not everyone experiences abuse contacts us but I think it's a pretty accurate reflection of what's happening around the country and it continues to grow. I mean, at this point it's thousands and that number, like I mentioned, has grown and stops and it'll only continue to grow. But I think it's hard to get a national picture of this. We know what we often turn to. The most accurate picture of what domestic violence looks like around the country is the CDC's National Intuit Partner on Sexual Violence Survey. So they survey people around the country and that provides us with some national data. But it doesn't really dive down into the reproductive aspect of things. So I think it's a really under-researched area and I think that we know that for many, many people they're not going to report their experiences. So anything that we have is going to be under counted as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean I value that as well to know that it's under reported, much like a lot of abuse, and I love that you said that it was under researched because I hear that all the time about domestic violence, like each particular areas is. So it's not fully understood because it is under researched and I'd love to be able to provide some information for the medical community who, when they encounter survivors who talk about experiences of reproductive coercion, are there things that the hotline can point out or share to help the medical community respond to that?
Speaker 3:I think it's building upon what I mentioned earlier that abusive partners are going to use every tool that they can to exert power and control over their partners. You know, unfortunately, in a post-dobs world, a lot of abusive partners have one more tool to control their partner. So I think that, similar to ways medical professionals and healthcare providers screen for domestic violence you know we've seen a lot of changes not in a positive way in the last decade. I think some of that with the last iteration of the Bands Gets Women Act I think that similar things could be integrated in terms of screening and support. We know that often, with healthcare appointments and healthcare service providers, that's often a safe, confidential space where survivors could access resources. So I think that there are lots of opportunities for training and understanding and screening around that, and I think you know it's continuing to change and evolve as the landscape shifts and evolves too, and I think a lot of healthcare providers are aware of these intersections and more and more are learning about them as well.
Speaker 1:I'm curious about the mind of the abuser, which is not something I usually think very much about. But you know, are these guys consciously thinking or saying to themselves well hey, now that you know there's no access to abortion, I can easily tie her to me forever, but I'll just get her pregnant, make her stay? Is someone that driven to have control over someone that they would use, potentially, the life of yet another person to influence her decision of staying or leaving?
Speaker 3:Frankly, I agree it's hard to get into the mind of an infeasive partner. But I mean, all we can do is speculate and I do really think that if someone is trying to exert control over someone, they're going to use anything right Before. If someone went and got an abortion, sure they may have faced broader systemic issues. Maybe their family didn't support them, maybe their communities didn't support them, maybe their friends did or did not support them. You don't know. But now an abuser partner can say I can send you to jail, I could have you prosecuted for that, I can threaten to report your friends and family that helped you. And those were tools that weren't available before dogs. Even if an abuser partner threatened, they could threaten all they wanted, but there were no legal ramifications.
Speaker 3:And now you can have a survivor who's just terrified for not only themselves but their friends and their family and their healthcare provider and maybe their community. So we're implicating people that may not have ever been implicated in that cycle of abuse. But you know, it's just. It's a really unfortunate systemic issue. It's not just a one-on-one issue. We see the ways that all of the structures are not necessarily always helpful to survivors. You know what survivors have to go through is traumatic and it's often really challenging and takes a long time to find safety and healing. So I think that, yeah, I do really think that abusive partners are motivated to do anything that they can to have control over someone, and we see that. I think there are some statistics from the American College of Gynecology and Obstetrics that talks about how sometimes pregnancy is even the first time that people experience abuse, because abusers often feel like suddenly everything is spiraling out of their control.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'd like to get into that a little bit more in a minute. But first I wanted to ask you about how firearms, intimate partner violence and reproductive violence intersect, and how much more dangerous does it become for someone when there are firearms present?
Speaker 3:We have seen that firearms are just, unfortunately, another tool that abusers use to threaten. I think something that is really valuable is we've had a previous study that we conducted on the intersection of firearms and abuse and the ways that firearms are used to threaten and control survivors, so that study is, unfortunately, really outdated. The last time we did it was in 2014. We are redoing one this year, so really excited to be able to share those results with you. But of those sort of people who had reached out to respond to the survey, 22% of them said their partner had threatened to use the firearm to hurt themselves, their intro partner, their children, family members, friends or even pets. Of those who said their partner had threatened with the firearm, 76% of them said their partner made a verbal threat to use the gun. 24% said their partner waived their gun. Around 25% said that their partner pointed the gun at them or others. 30% said that their partner left their gun out to create a feeling of fear. So, in the ways that they undersoft, it's just that when firearms are available and abuse partners have access to them, they're often used as another way to manipulate, threaten and control, if they're not even exclusively used to shoot or harm someone, and I think the other thing that we know from evidence around the country is that there are certain prohibitions as to when firearms are supposed to be removed, but those are not always followed.
Speaker 3:It's not easy to get a protective border. It's not a fun process for survivors. It's often re-chromatizing. It's often hard to get protective orders enforced. We, law enforcement around the country, have lots and lots of responsibilities that they're supposed to do. We're maybe. Firearms is another one. So I think the ways that we see this intersection are just. Firearms are another tool of control, so it could mean that the threat could be made against a survivor around reproductive health. It could just mean threats on life, their family, verbal abuse, many, many different things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, like a lot of other forms of domestic violence, firearms increase severity of abuse and risk of lethality. And then, in addition to all of that, there are these specific groups, more vulnerable groups of women, who are at even higher risks whether or not firearms are present, but when they are, their risk is escalated even more, and these would include pregnant women, as you mentioned. It would also include women in communities of color, where, statistically, for example, black and Latina women endure more unwanted pregnancies and are abused or killed more often while they are pregnant. So let's dig into all of that. So, first, thinking about pregnant women who are in intimate partner violence relationships, are there things that can be done to help minimize their risks and increase their safety?
Speaker 3:Well, I think, like you mentioned, there's many, many different sorts of groups that are going to experience increased risks and vulnerabilities. You know, to that list I would also add Indigenous women and Native American women, people with disabilities, queer and trans survivors. Yes, yes. Yes.
Speaker 1:And yes.
Speaker 3:The more identities that someone has, the more risks that they face.
Speaker 3:I think that it's important to remember also that, because violence is not an individual issue, it's a systemic issue, that all of the risks are increased.
Speaker 3:So, for example, if someone is queer, has some disabilities, as Indigenous, and they're living in a rural place, they may not have the means to travel to another state to access safety. So I think it's looking at the ways I know we talked about options earlier but looking at the ways that we can increase options for all survivors. So does that mean resources in your community? Does that mean looking at community services that may not be traditional domestic violence programs? Does that mean cultural, civic services in different languages? Does that mean options that are outside of maybe the criminal justice or criminal legal systems, because maybe someone doesn't feel safe interacting with those, maybe they don't want to call the police, maybe they trust someone else. So I think what we really need to do is just expand the options that are available to every single person and as we think about the most vulnerable, the most marginalised, the most intersecting identities, we just make the system better for everyone, because if it's thinking about the person who is the most, most impacted, then we better fit all survivors.
Speaker 1:And very often the most impacted might be, as you said, Indigenous women living in rural communities, Black women, Latina women, and many times they don't have access to services or simply cannot find services in their area.
Speaker 3:They can always call the hotline right Of course, yeah, so we provide direct services, though we Answer the call and safety plan, we can validate the experience and we can connect folks to resources in our community. But you know, then we need all of the other support systems. We need Shelters, we need transitional housing, financial resources. When you lawyers, when you talk care providers, it's really really on the full system to be responsible for the safety of each other and for survivors, and I think we really really need to bolster the whole system. You know, I think there's been incredible strides that have been made since things like the Vowns against women act past and things like the family Bounds, rent from services act past. But I mean, we're seeing these really, really huge gaps and what's needed as really the landscape around reproductive abuse, reproductive violence, changes, you know, as online harassment and abuse change, as of the landscape around firearms change, as I think we're just seeing that we need a lot, a lot more from every part of the system.
Speaker 1:So can you tell us, maybe, what one or two of those gaps are that you would like to see filled, maybe with mandates that need to be in place or some other type of legislation?
Speaker 3:Of course. So I think that you know creating effective policies just takes a multi-faceted approach, but I think something that we as advocates have always talked about is addressing prevention and intervention, but also things like comprehensive education programs and schools and college and and healthcare institutions to really raise awareness around reproductive rights, around Consent, around abuse, around domestic violence. You know that also Includes information around healthy relationships, around healthy communication, sexual education. Those things look really different in lots of different places, if they really exist at all. We can bolster things like sexual assault services programs. So we can bolster things like the rape prevention education program. We can expand access to reproductive health in general. A lot of people don't have access to anyone at all, particularly if they're in a place where there's not a lot of doctors or maybe not a lot of doctors focusing on reproductive health care at all.
Speaker 3:Um, I think including, along with the trainings, education and expanding the definitions Of all of this can ensure survivors have access to services and also, you know, civil and criminal remedies if that's something that they choose to pursue, but also focusing on culturally specific services to ensure that policies and awarenesses, campaigns Are culturally sensitive and inclusive and understand where people are and are, you know, understandable in whatever language they speak.
Speaker 3:But I think at large, it comes back to the issue that unfortunately I keep Carping on is that we've often seen domestic violence as an individual issue, and it's really not. It's a systemic issue, and I think that we have to look at the whole system for solutions for change. Um, and I think the CDC has this really beautiful intimate partner violence prevention toolkit which lists, you know, all these evidence based strategies that are evidence based to reduce violence, and it's everything from like providing housing to economic resources, to the healthy education that I mentioned. So we know that there's lots and lots of ways the intimate partner violence, domestic violence, reproductive coercion, abuse can all be Prevented. We just need a really, really strong approach, strong, multi-faceted approach, to get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally agree with that, and that would be Wonderful to see it expanded Um. The work that you do at the hotline has been so important to the millions of women that you have helped over the past couple of decades. I think we should give people the most important resource that they could possibly take away from this episode, and that is the phone number For the national domestic violence hotline. Will you tell us all the ways that you can get in touch with the hotline?
Speaker 3:So the best way to reach us is, if you have any sort of internet connectivity or internet device is go to the hotlineorg again that's the hotlineorg and you can Chat us there. You can text us there. If you want to text us, you can text start to 88788 and then, if you want to call us, our phone number is 1-800-799-SAFE again that's 1-800-799-7233. The reason why I recommend our website too is lots of trans people are just looking for what Resources are available in their community and their state and their locality, and we have a massive resource database of over 5,000 Resources. So if you go to our main page, in a bright purple box you can click a get help section that lists A resource search so you can just see what's available to you. If you don't want to Call, text or chat or interact with anyone, too, you can also look at where resources are there.
Speaker 1:That's incredibly helpful and I can attest to the fact that it is one of the most robust resource searches that you can get on the internet about domestic violence and responses to it, and I am so grateful to have spent time with you today and learned more about the hotline and everything that you're doing, and I thank you for being here, of course. Thank you for having me. Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe. Registration for the 2024 conference on crimes against women is now available. The 2024 conference will be held in Dallas, texas, at the Sheraton Dallas May 20th through the 23rd. Visit our website at conference caworg to learn more and register today, and follow us on social media at national CCAW for updates about the conference, featured events, presenters and more.