Podcast on Crimes Against Women
The Conference on Crimes Against Women (CCAW) is thrilled the announce the Podcast on Crimes Against Women (PCAW). Continuing with our fourth season, the PCAW releases new episodes every Monday. The PCAW serves as an extension of the information and topics presented at the annual Conference, providing in-depth dialogue, fresh perspectives, and relevant updates by experts in the fields of victim advocacy, criminal justice, medicine, and more. This podcast’s format hopes to create a space for topical conversations aimed to engage and educate community members on the issue of violence against women, how it impacts our daily lives, and how we can work together to create lasting cultural and systemic change.
Podcast on Crimes Against Women
When "I'm Fine" Isn't Fine: Recognizing the Hidden Signs of Abuse
What does safety really mean when you're trapped in an abusive relationship? For forty years, Genesis Women's Shelter & Support has been answering this question through action, evolving from a seven-room emergency shelter into a comprehensive support system that recognizes both physical and emotional dimensions of safety.
In this revealing conversation, Genesis CEO Jan Langbein and Chief Residential Officer Jordyn Lawson take us through the history of domestic violence services in America—a journey that began long before shelter doors opened, tracing back to women's suffrage and the fight against laws that once permitted husbands to beat their wives legally. They share how Genesis has continuously adapted to meet survivor needs, from adding transitional housing to legal services to innovative occupational therapy for traumatized children.
The most dangerous misconception about domestic violence? That victims are safe once they leave. In reality, 75% of women murdered by partners are killed after separation. This stark reality explains why "just leaving" isn't simple, especially when abusers use isolation, financial control, and threats as weapons. Lawson expertly dismantles our understanding of abuse, explaining how controlling behaviors combined with any physical aggression represent the highest risk for homicide, while strangulation increases murder risk elevenfold.
Perhaps most importantly, Langbein and Lawson offer practical guidance for everyone who suspects someone might be suffering. "Trust your gut," they urge, explaining that even when victims deny abuse initially, simply knowing someone cares enough to ask can become a lifeline. Whether you're concerned about someone you know or working in a position to help survivors, this episode provides the knowledge to recognize warning signs that media sensationalism often obscures.
Ready to be part of the solution? Genesis offers 24/7 support at 214-946-HELP. Because as this episode reminds us: abuse won't stop until abusers stop abusing—but we can all help create pathways to safety.
The subject matter of this podcast will address difficult topics multiple forms of violence, and identity-based discrimination and harassment. We acknowledge that this content may be difficult and have listed specific content warnings in each episode description to help create a positive, safe experience for all listeners.
Speaker 2:In this country, 31 million crimes 31 million crimes are reported every year. That is one every second. Out of that, every 24 minutes there is a murder. Every five minutes there is a rape. Every two to five minutes there is a sexual assault. Every nine seconds in this country, a woman is assaulted by someone who told her that he loved her, by someone who told her it was her fault, by someone who tries to tell the rest of us it's none of our business and I am proud to stand here today with each of you to call that perpetrator a liar.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the podcast on crimes against women. I'm Maria McMullin. Throughout history, the treatment of women has often been fraught with inferiority, oppression and violence, primarily bred out of the need for complete power and control. There are numerous periods in time where women were treated as property, allowed to be beaten with anything that was no wider than a man's thumb, denied the right to wear pants, to work outside of the home, to serve in clergy or to vote. Moreover, domestic violence against women was perceived simply as a family issue which resulted in little to no intervention, or the violence was disregarded as a man justifiably handling a domestic problem. Fortunately, much has changed since those times. Women now serve in the highest echelons of government, military and law enforcement, as well as within corporate and nonprofit spheres. Along with this progress, domestic violence prevention, intervention and response has also significantly improved, which has helped women achieve safety, healing and independence. Because of these advances, one could imagine that women would be able to extricate themselves from an abusive relationship, especially women who have both money and means. Unfortunately, due to the relentless use of abusive tactics by offenders, society's lack of awareness and cultural biases, and multiple gaps in systemic response, women of all walks of life and backgrounds continue to experience abuse and or violence and are subject to death by their abuser. Today, joined by Jan Langbein, ceo of Genesis Women's Shelter and Support, along with Chief Residential Officer Jordan Lawson, will review the history of domestic violence services in the United States, how Genesis has helped to shape the course of that history, discuss the future of domestic violence services that could better accommodate the needs of survivors and provide best practices for law enforcement practitioners and others who support victims of domestic violence.
Speaker 1:Jan Langbein is the CEO of Genesis Women's Shelter and Support, who, for 34 years, has been an activist in efforts to end violence against women. As the CEO, ms Langbein oversees internal and external operations, as well as funding and community education. Under her leadership, genesis has grown from a seven-room emergency shelter to a full-service response for survivors of domestic violence and maintained its unique status as one of the few victim service programs that accomplishes sustainability without government funding. In 2009, ms Langbein concluded a presidential appointment as Senior Policy Advisor to the Director of the United States Department of Justice Office on Violence Against Women. As Senior Policy Advisor, jan Langbein served as Chief Strategist of OVW. She is also a recognized national expert on domestic violence and conducts training and workshops across the United States. Additionally, in partnership with the Dallas Police Department and the FBI, ms Langbein co-founded the annual International Conference on Crimes Against Women.
Speaker 1:Jordan Lawson is a licensed clinician and LPC supervisor who currently serves as the chief residential officer at Genesis Women's Shelter and Support. Ms Lawson supervises both the emergency shelter and Annie's House Transitional Living Program. Services within these two locations include a 24-hour helpline, on-site school for K through 6th grade, on-site daycare and children's services, advocacy services and counseling services. Previously, ms Lawson was the assistant clinical director at Genesis and provided individual and group therapy to women and children for over eight years. She has worked in the field of domestic violence and trauma recovery for over 16 years. Jan and Jordan welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here. I know you are. Yes, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 1:I'm glad to be here too, because we all work together at Genesis Women's Shelter and Support, and I know you both as champions for the cause to combat domestic violence, provide shelter and services to victims and survivors and fight to hold offenders accountable accountable. Jan, we want to start with you in this conversation, and we have a lot of ground to cover when we are talking about the history of domestic violence services, where we are today with those services and a whole lot more. Perhaps you can share with us how Genesis started and how far it has come in terms of service provision or wraparound services to include things like occupational therapy.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. As you all know, this year we're celebrating our 40th anniversary of Genesis Women's Shelter and Support and when I think back to where we've been and how far we've come, I'm amazed. I really am. The beginning of Genesis.
Speaker 2:The Genesis of Genesis actually started in the basement of the Stew Pot Soup Kitchen in the basement of First Presbyterian Church, where an Episcopal priest, father Jerry Hill, was working with the chronically homeless. He met a woman who was actually living in her suburban, feeding her children at the stewpot because it was not safe to be at home. Recognizing that she was not chronically homeless but situationally homeless, which many women become as they flee to safety, he began thinking well, where can we find a safe bed in a shelter? And on that day the closest available bed was Jacksonville, florida. So some leaders of the Presbyterian Church and the Episcopalian Diocese came together and said that's not okay and the dream of Genesis rose up out of the basement of that church. I think about that woman all the time. I wish I knew who she was. I'd love to thank her. Because of her courage and her determination she really changed the way that Dallas looks at the issue of domestic violence. I keep envisioning in my mind her children, who probably probably are now, you know, 45-year-old men. But that is how we started, and the first efforts that these gentlemen made was actually an emergency shelter they found. The city of Dallas was able to donate an old, abandoned firehouse, and those became the first seven bedrooms of Genesis Shelter became the first seven bedrooms of Genesis Shelter.
Speaker 2:Now, since then, of course, we recognize over and over again the services that are necessary for women who are trying to flee to safety, and certainly a seven-bedroom shelter isn't enough. We have made an addition on the back, doubling the occupancy capabilities. We also know that an eight-week stay in a shelter isn't long enough, and so we have built transitional housing. We know that lack of access to civil legal representation can mean defeat, and so we have added a legal clinic, we've added child care, we have added preschool and school, elementary school, and as each of these roadblocks would sort of rear its ugly head, the amazing team at Genesis would say, okay, what can we do about it? How can we fix that? And so what we have today is a full service response, wraparound services for survivors of domestic violence, women and children who are survivors of domestic violence.
Speaker 2:One of the things that I'm so excited about is relatively new for us. My clinical team would come to me and say we need an occupational therapist on site and I'd be like, oh no, that's not what we do. And they'd come back and they'd say we need an occupational therapist on site. And as we started looking around, we realized more and more kiddos who had experienced the trauma and watched and listened or experienced physical trauma themselves that were coming in on the autism spectrum. They were coming in with severe ADHD.
Speaker 2:These neurodivergent issues are now covered over with complex trauma where it's happened again and again and again. And so, as it worked out, we were able to find the funding for an occupational therapist. We were building out a sensory room, which was a problem in itself because I didn't know what goes in a sensory room. I don't know, and we couldn't find another program like ours that had occupational therapeutic assistance. And so we put one foot in front of the other once again, and I think we were the first that we could find that actually has incorporated occupational therapy, and it is amazing the difference it makes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and all of these things, as you point out, happened over four decades.
Speaker 2:Right, I said it in four minutes, I think, but it took 40 years to do.
Speaker 1:It did take 40 years to do and they were building blocks for Genesis and learning opportunities for Genesis and the community about what domestic violence is. And the movement has even changed over the course of those 40 years.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the amazing thing about Genesis is its ability to really be attuned to our clients and see what is it that they're really currently struggling with, like, what's the like you said, the roadblock to being able to seek safety and stability, and that's the space where we go okay, well, let's create a service for that.
Speaker 2:Right and I know that's what you've done in these 40 years is just constantly read what's the next thing she needs help overcoming and how do we add that and you know when, when I started and you all taught me this as clinicians when we started out, we definitely used a medical model. You know what's wrong with you. Take this pill, get a protective order and come back and see me. But our approach now, with this trauma, informed, everything, is so amazing because it's not what's wrong with you, it's what's happened to you and you know this incredible team walks beside her in those, in those efforts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's changed a lot. I do think OT, though, is going to be the next big change from medical model to trauma-informed it has been that OT is really the thing that can bridge the gaps between clinical and advocacy and clinical advocacy and legal. Ot is kind of the services that can stand between all three of those and really connect everything.
Speaker 1:And it's been a learning process for us. We've been working on this for several years now and it's been a learning process for us. We've been working on this for several years now and from time to time we even bring movement, and why that information is crucial to the work you're doing today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd love to jump in on that. I think when we think of the DV movement, we have to even go back farther, because it was the fight for the right to vote for women is really what began to address the issues of the violence against us in 1848. A group of women got together and they started talking about what wasn't right, and at that time their husbands had legal power over them. They could beat them, and it was not against the law. Women couldn't get an education, they were banned from professions like law or medicine. They couldn't participate in church affairs, they couldn't work or if they did, it was only a fraction of what men made at that time. But it all depended on this vote. The women wanted the right to vote. Unfortunately, even though the 19th Amendment was introduced to Congress in 1878, 1878, so that is 30 years after the first conversations about it but after 1878, it was not ratified for 42 more years, 1920.
Speaker 2:And what's not interesting? It's interesting, but it's not interesting is the fact that the 19th Amendment gave women the right to vote, but really, in practice, only white women, women of color, really did not get the freedom, not just the right to vote, but really, in practice, only white women, women of color, really did not get the freedom not just the right but the freedom to vote until Voting Rights Act passed in 1965. So it's been a hard road, even and I know I've been married a long time. But in my married life I couldn't get a credit card without my husband's signature on it, I couldn't get birth control, I couldn't go to an Ivy League school, I couldn't go abroad without his permission, I couldn't open my own bank account. I could be refused on that.
Speaker 2:And I know that we've come a long way. But we look at the domestic violence movement that went in parallel with the suffrage, the rights to vote, and yeah, we've come a long way, but we are hanging on tightly to it. We stand on the shoulders of women who were force fed and imprisoned and ridiculed and, you know, worked 50 years to get this right. And I want so desperately for particularly women, but all people, to be willing to, you know, stand up and march on and sit in on whatever it takes, that we don't lose what they did for us. We don't give it away, we don't. It just doesn't disappear. Yeah.
Speaker 1:On top of all of that, there were other things happening then in the 1970s, like these consciousness raising groups that women were involved in and who began to really have the conversations about battered women, which is what domestic violence was called back in the day, and the movement that sprang out of that was more or less bricks and mortar. So it was more or less a shelter bed movement, and at the time that was really the only viable recourse for women fleeing an abusive relationship. So, jordan, what have you found to be some of the stigmas associated with the word shelter, and how have those stigmatizations prevented women from seeking help?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think a lot of times the greatest stigma is just this belief system that it's only for homeless women, only for the down and out who can't take care of herself.
Speaker 3:There's this sort of implication that if you have to go to shelter it's because you're in a very bad place. You've done, you've made some really poor choices and, and you know, if you have a job, you shouldn't go to shelter. If you um, and so I think the stigma really is that having to go to shelter really is shameful and that it shows that it's my fault, right, right. Whereas what we know is that a lot of times, the first and most common tactic in an abusive relationship is isolation, to isolate somebody away from resources, whether that be finances, whether that be transportation, whether that be employment, or it might be supportive individuals like family and friends, and so then, when it comes down to literally needing to leave to stay alive, a lot of times she's been so isolated away from all of that support that really we want people to know the shelter's there because it's the safest place for her to go.
Speaker 1:So when we talk about safety, then the word safe means different things to different people, which explains why people respond to domestic violence in different ways, to include how they help others in a domestic violence situation. So just Jordan again. What does the word safe mean to Genesis, and how has that definition helped women free themselves from an abusive relationship?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I really appreciate the question, because the truth is is that you know, we're very intentional about language, as Genesis, because so many words have specific meaning for our clients, for our survivors, right? So many of them have experienced certain words that were used against them or were twisted to be used against them. And so, the truth is is that safe is a really hard word for a lot of our clients. What does it mean to feel safe when I've been in a relationship for a year, three years, seven years, 20 years, where every single day, I'm in this place of trying to stay ahead of what's going to happen next? When is he going to get mad again? What's he going to get mad about again? And so there's just been this constant lack of emotional safety, let alone physical safety, and so we are really careful with the word and what we mean when we talk about safety is a prioritized physical safety.
Speaker 3:The reality of domestic violence is that women are killed by their abusive partner every single day, and so we have to take very seriously her physical safety and we have to be really direct in talking about how are you physically safe? Talk to me about the experiences at home. What's the history of physical abuse, potentially. But then we also get into talking about emotional safety. Right, what does it feel like to be in your home?
Speaker 3:I always explain to people that the truth is, yes, abuse is specific to certain behaviors, but domestic violence is really that pattern of power and control, that diminishment of a woman in her home, and so that's that repetitive experience of behaviors that make her feel intimidated or afraid. The truth is, any behavior could be abusive if it makes her feel intimidated or afraid or uneasy about what's going to happen next. And so when we talk about safety, we explain that emotional safety thing. One, because if she doesn't feel emotionally safe, there's a good chance it's a huge red flag that abuse is going on. And two, there are some things that we can do to increase her emotional safety, to help her, educate her on what, the dynamics of things that are going on, and help her understand why, when he does this, it makes her feel this way and that's why it's actually not okay and not healthy.
Speaker 1:Can you just maybe I missed it, but can you just give an example of emotional safety or what it feels to be, what it's like to be unsafe emotionally?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll give an example, so, um, kind of a. I use it to be relatable because, you know, pretty much everybody around me does have a sibling. But do you have a sibling, maria? I do, you do? Yeah, so I have a little sister. We're very close with each other. She's very important to me and we have a history of being emotionally safe with each other Not 100% perfect, never had conflict in our relationship, but we're safe with each other.
Speaker 3:And so the example I give is that there are times where we do get mad at each other, we get irritated with each other. We've even argued before and I'll tell you that in an argument we have called each other names before. So let's say, me and my sister in an argument and all of a sudden I get mad and I yell you bitch at my sister. There is a high likelihood that she's going to be hurt, offended, sad, right. I want to be really clear. It's an unhealthy relationship behavior calling names because it could really affect our relationship in that moment. But because we have this pattern of safety, because typically she feels I respect her boundaries and she respects my boundaries, I comfort her as much as she comforts me. I encourage her and she encourages me, and so we have this pattern of equalness and this power of openness and being able to be who we are and accepted with each other.
Speaker 3:I'm emotionally safe in this relationship. She's not going to be afraid of me when I call her that name right again, not okay to call her the name, but it doesn't necessarily cross the line into domestic violence or into abuse because she doesn't feel afraid of me. On the contrary, if I'm driving around with my husband, who's larger than me, got a really loud voice, a really deep voice, let's say we're in an argument and we're kind of going back and forth, all of a sudden he yells you bitch. If in that moment I go oh wow, this is getting really escalated, this is getting really serious, we need to calm down, and I sort of feel concern about what's going to happen next or about him being mad and continuing to get madder, in that moment I'm not emotionally safe. I might not be physically safe either, depending on the pattern of my relationship, but I'm not emotionally safe in that moment because I'm fearful.
Speaker 3:I'm fearing of what could happen next and whether or not I could get hurt next, and so now I'm in a place of protection and it's in that place of protection where I'm sort of doing whatever it takes to calm things down, for us to be okay and be chill. That's where my partner could potentially really take advantage of it and assert power and control over me. So when we talk about emotional safety, we talk about being in a space where you have the right to disagree with your partner and not be punished for it, where you have the right to be upset and not be punished for being upset. Right? A lot of times, my clients will talk about only being able to express good feelings, because any sort of bad feelings frustration, anger, sadness is met with blame and shame. Right, they're wrong for feeling that way, they're wrong for experiencing that, and so it's not emotionally safe because if they feel that or express that or experience that, they actually might be punished for having that.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for providing all of that background, because and I feel like I've heard this song before I think we had this exact conversation on this show one day where you gave me that example, so but it's perfect example for what we're talking about today, because I think there are elements of domestic violence that people don't understand, they don't recognize, they don't consider them abuse and they don't realize that they could lead to like really serious consequences. And you also touched on something about how shelter is one option for a person experiencing domestic violence, but it's not the only option. What other remedies are available to women to not only be safe but feel secure, embrace healing and gain independence?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we have to stop and think that the shelter isn't the only answer. It is an answer, but it may not even be the best answer. There may not be room in the shelter. The eight-week stay in the shelter isn't long enough, and so we rely on other resources all the time.
Speaker 2:I think and Jordan, you may want to talk about our non-residential services but if somebody is going to feel safe and secure, it just can't be when she walks into the shelter in a non-disclosed location. What about how safe is she going to feel? Safe and secure? It just can't be when she walks into the shelter in a non-disclosed location. What about how safe is she going to feel when she goes to court? How safe is she going to feel when she has to look for a job or change her job, or look for housing or you know all these things that have to happen as she's trying to gain independence. It's really, really difficult. So our staff, Jordan and her team, work really hard at collecting these other remedies and sort of laying them out in a smorgasbord fashion to where our clients can see what is best for her. How can we, how can she change her life? But I don't think you can heal if you can't afford to feed your children. I don't think you can heal if you're afraid of the exchange when you're doing custody exchange. So what we've tried to do is remove those fears.
Speaker 2:And one of the things when you were talking about safety, I love the fact that when we safety plan, we have sliced it and diced it so thinly that we talk about being safe in the home when the fighting starts. We talk about being safe when you do go to court or at your job. We talk about phone safety. We talk about when you're leaving, about to leave, how to do that and not get killed, Because 75% of all women who are killed are killed after they have left, not really while they're in it.
Speaker 2:So that's a very scary, unsafe place to be. But then also, so they come. Let's say they come to Genesis and they feel a safe place to sleep. But how do I get on a bus and how do I go to a job and how do I, you know, go open a bank account or close out another? I mean, there's so many layers of this and I love this about the Genesis, the Genesis staff, the teams over there that look beyond the shelter safety to all the other layers and needs. Yeah, and we've done that over the years. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's really interesting when you apply it to the conversation we were just having about the history of the DV movement. Right, the reality is is that in the beginning, in the infancy, of being able to get domestic violence as something that was determined to be illegal, it was physical abuse that they were talking about, right, it was only physical abuse that was really recognized and so, because of that, places like shelter or emphasis on legal action, like criminality punishments, that would be like real time in prison and stuff, that was really the focus. But as our society has changed, as our economies changed, as earnings between men and women have changed and things, we have seen and really had to address the really kind of intricate tactics of abusers that go beyond just physical abuse, right, and so I think that's why it's important to go beyond just shelter, right, if somebody needs to be physically safe tonight to stay alive, shelter has to exist and we will exist. Our phone will always be answered 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, because, unfortunately, women are in danger, right, but the reality is, majority of our clients are experiencing emotional abuse and verbal abuse than are experiencing physical abuse. The truth is, every single 100% of victims of domestic violence are experiencing emotional abuse and verbal abuse. For a lot of our clients who are only experiencing emotional or verbal abuse, they are not yet noticing physical abuse. I say not yet because of course, unfortunately, things could escalate and they could become physically abusive or dangerous.
Speaker 3:But in those times it can be really beneficial to focus on our non-residential services, to have sort of a longer runway to leaving the abusive home or more support to understand exactly what's going on in these very manipulative dynamics or the you know the things that are going on at home where she's having just a really hard time pointing to. I don't know exactly what he's doing that's wrong, but I know that it doesn't feel safe, I know that I feel scared, I feel like I'm on eggshells, I feel like I can't, you know, have my needs met financially without permission or you know some of these things going on. And so our non-residential services really came about from helping women and really getting into the cracks and nuts and bolts of the really intricate tactics that you know, the manipulation and the ongoing abuse post-separation and the use of the court system to continue abusing her during the divorce proceedings. And so I always say I am, ironically, the chief residential officer who believes that majority of victims of domestic violence shouldn't come to shelter. They should start in our non-residential services to really get that individualized support.
Speaker 3:I appreciate you bringing up safety planning, jan. We've talked about this on the podcast before, but I'd be a bad advocate if I didn't say in this moment, in this moment, you know, safety planning is helping her identify what she's already doing to stay safe and then sort of adding in the details of other things she could do to increase her safety. But safety planning to your point of the word safe, maria, safety planning never implies that she can be safe. We're never saying what are you going to do to get yourself safe? Right, because she can't be in control of whether or not he's abusive. He chooses to be abusive or not. We can help her do some things to try to keep herself safer, but we can't necessarily She'll never be safe safe until he chooses not to abuse.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I heard I guess it was Amy in our office the other day say you know, if it were up to women, we would have fixed this Right. If it were up to women, we would have fixed this right. If we could, we would have right. And so abuse won't stop until abusers stop abusing. I loved how you used the phrase a longer runway, and I've heard you say so many times the short stay in a shelter. If he's cut up your driver's license and your credit card that takes six to eight weeks to find. Well, you can't get a job, you can't check out a library book, you can't go to a motel or a hotel if you don't have ID and a credit card. So it's very, very strategic and I think we have to be strategic in helping her be more safe.
Speaker 3:Can she ever be safe? Yeah, yeah I think that's a great way of putting it and again, the focus individually on her and the time in which to really go through that is really where our non-residential services shine and they're really able to get into that.
Speaker 2:Because even if a client correct me if I'm wrong but even if a client wants to move, to get out and go to our shelter, if they do have time to get a copy of that driver's license, to sock away a little bit of money, time to get a copy of that driver's license, to sock away a little bit of money to be sure that she's able to get out shot records and, you know, birth certificates so that it can help her on down the line. It's like a training camp for getting out. Now don't get me wrong. If she needs to go, she needs to go, right, but if she does have, I hear you say, four walls and a roof, particularly because we are full most all the time. Now, that's not to discourage people from calling us, but we also, our helpline, has all these other resources up their sleeves that if we're full we have access to other, you know, facilities.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it takes so much. It's not just as easy as saying why doesn't she just get out? And of course that's my most unfavorite question, because just as easy as saying why doesn't she just get out? And of course that's my most unfavorite question, because the question ought to be why does he do it in the first place? Why is this particular crime, this and sexual assault? Why are those crimes, the two crimes that the onus of ending them is on her victim, right yeah?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that, like that, plays into the conversation that you were bringing up. Maria too of you know, in talking about shelter and whether non-residential services, it does seem really important for people to understand what are those danger signs, because there are a lot of those danger signs that could be contributed to risk factors for domestic violence or concerns regarding her safety, where shelter could be really necessary and an immediate need, and our hotline is trained at having those conversations and talking through what those different risk factors are and being able to see and then being able to go. You know, I hear that you were calling to specifically ask about shelter. Would you be interested in starting with an advocacy intake at our Lucas location or the flip side? Right, they wanted an advocacy intake and saying absolutely, and also we want you to know that when and if you need us and you need shelter, this phone call gets answered 24 hours a day We'd really encourage you to call back because we're concerned for your safety, exactly.
Speaker 1:So up to this point, we've been talking about domestic violence from an agency or organization perspective, or even the movement against domestic violence. Let's switch now to talk about first responders and frontline service providers. Jan, help us understand the importance of the domestic violence high-risk team, multidisciplinary task forces and domestic violence fatality review teams. What are those teams and how do they function?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, each one of the ones that you mentioned will function slightly differently, but the one thing that is the common thread is that it's bringing the different systems together to focus in on, and hopefully better serve, the clients that need us. For example, the high-risk team is actually a group of folks that are you on the? Do you go to that? Our director of advocacy, Laurel, goes to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a domestic violence high-risk team is grouped up, professionals within different systems that come together and help identify who is at the most risk, who is the most risk of dying, who's the most risk of recidivism and who is at the most risk, who is the most risk of dying, who's the most risk of recidivism and who is the highest risk offenders. In fact, with that, the domestic violence high-risk team is followed by a high-risk offenders court where these perpetrators are identified and stronger holds are put on them. It may be an ankle bracelet, it may monitor. It may be an ankle bracelet, it may monitor. It may be a stiffer sentence. But it is the courts and the shelters and the DA's office and the service providers that all come together to see how can we intersect here.
Speaker 2:The Dallas County Intimate Partner Fatality Review Team is an amazing group of people who come together to honor a victim's life by reviewing her death and at the end of the day, we want to be able to say could that have been prevented, or how do we prevent the next one? And so to know what happened, how it happened. Was there a history of domestic violence? Had she ever gone to the hospital? Had she been seen in any of the shelters? Had he been on probation? And this whole group. We go around the table and it's like did you see her? Did you see her? Did school have anything to do? Was CPS involved? And what we found?
Speaker 2:We've been going a little over 10 years and what we found at first was there was no intersection that with fatality review team. She didn't get a protective order, she didn't go to a shelter, she didn't disclose at a hospital, which was at first just kind of overwhelming to me because I'm like we're talking about this all the time. We've been here for 40 years. But then I kind of turned that half-empty glass into a half-full one and realized that where there is intersection she doesn't die. And so the teams come together, each with a little bit different focus, whether it is reviewing the homicides or it is pointing out who the high-risk offenders. The mayor has a multidisciplinary task force that also can come together, and one of the things I do like about that is we can absolutely identify some areas where we can all go to work at the legislative levels that you know. If we see the opportunity for a new bill or for not supporting a bad bill, you know other things come out that can be a resource to her in the long run.
Speaker 3:I always like when you talk about too, jan, about how the fact that you know we don't work in silos right that, because there is a likelihood that she, or the hope is that all of these different groups would have contact with the victim or the offender, that we would all have an opportunity to really support her offender, that we would all have an opportunity to really support her. And so in being in these meetings, it also gives us the chance to understand each other's role, understand each other's language, learn from each other, learn you know different techniques that we could do as far as things to say that would be trauma-informed or supportive. Provide that domestic violence education. Sometimes I know I, when I go, I learn something about the legal world every single time and exactly how that works.
Speaker 2:And I bet they learn more from you with the advocacy role I really do. But you know, some of these teams sprang out of a lawsuit here in Dallas In 1985, two battered women actually sued the city of Dallas. They felt they had not received due process and protection and they won this out of court settlement. But part of it was that we all had to come around the table and I was there and I remember everybody kind of pointing at everybody else saying, well, you just hate women, well, you don't do your job, and you know that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:And what we realized several years later was that we can't shelter enough unless the police make an intervention there. And it doesn't matter how many people the police arrest if in fact you know, the courts are not following through on legal ramifications and accountability. And so we again we don't work in a silo that we need police, we need the city, we need each other. You know, I remember I'm kind of a competitive person, as you may know, right, and when I started out we were the smallest kid on the block and I remember thinking, oh, someday, and why, you know, but we don't have enough beds to shelter. We have to work together. My tone has totally changed into yeah, we all have to be working in the same direction Quality over quantity right, yeah, but I think too, the case where where they sued am I wrong in in knowing that?
Speaker 3:um, they sued because there was this idea that that the police officers were not taking the, the calls seriously, they were not providing the support.
Speaker 2:It was just sort of that like spend the night away from each other and then whatever worse than that, we have stories of police officers walking into the house, putting his hand on his badge and saying you all are divorced now. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Or I've heard of ones where it's, you know, back in the day of it being. You know, if you call the police again, I'm going to arrest you.
Speaker 2:First call shame on him. Second call shame on you. So these so these table.
Speaker 3:You know these meetings really came about to work together, but it was also the space to be like, hey, you know, to maria I can't help but keep going back to it, you know again, if she doesn't have a huge black eye in the moment really helping police officers understand, or er nurses understand, or cps workers understand, like what is it that they should be looking for and why should that that thing matter, right? Why should you walk in and and see two people arguing and not just write it off as a marital dispute? Like what should you be looking for to be those, those warning signs, right? I?
Speaker 2:remember, and I learned it from a client. I've learned so much from amazing staff, but I've learned, I learned from a client. Um, she was being interviewed by the morning news, I think or some, and I sat in with her just so she wasn't there by herself and you know, they asked about her physical abuse and she goes. No, he never hit me. And I was thinking I know your story. He would stand on her feet and he'd grab her by her hair and he'd shake her like this, and you know it was. He was incredibly abusive, but even she didn't. She goes. I wish I could point to a black eye, then I could show the whole world what he does to me, but unfortunately, even the victim didn't realize how abusive that was.
Speaker 2:Now, this is way back and uh. But I learned at that moment that just because he didn't hit her, it's not that he didn't hurt her Right, but also the intentionality behind abusers to not hit her.
Speaker 3:It's not that he didn't hurt her right, but also the intentionality behind abusers to not hit her so that she can't prove it in a place where it doesn't show, or yeah? Absolutely so having that, those conversations about what to you know, look for and what to notice and why his behavior versus her behavior could potentially show you well one person's calm because they're not scared right. One person's freaking out because they're terrified.
Speaker 2:And how does that look to a rookie cop who goes out to that house and she is just flipping around, just like you know? Like you say, that's because she's scared, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I really appreciate learning that. Was it 10 years, you know, when you guys started with fatality review?
Speaker 2:it's from the fatality review meetings that screenings within ERs started to occur, right Well hopefully they were occurring, because the Joint Commission on Hospital Accreditation requires you to have a DV protocol in place, but it was in a notebook on a shelf for many, many of those facilities. And so what we started doing is at fatality review, when we saw cases where she went from one ER to another ER, to another ER and nobody asked her, nobody said, are you safe in your own home? And then, of course, understanding why, she might say absolutely yes, I'm fine, don't worry about anything. But we then turned that into an effort within the medical communities of when to ask, how to ask, what to ask, and I think, yeah, there's several things that have come out of those fatality reviews or even the mayor's task force that have changed legislation.
Speaker 2:Dallas police have to issue. Well, throughout the state, all police must issue a notification to adult survivors of domestic violence. Where it's a little blue card is what we call it here in Dallas, because it's a blue card but on it lists Genesis and Family Place and Mosaic and some of these other resources. But we started monitoring through our helpline. Did you get a blue card and start calling the substations as to why they're not passing them out when they go out on these calls. So, yeah, it really matters. And back to your point, maria what's the point of all of these? Each one has its own agenda, but the things that have come out of it have been really, really amazing.
Speaker 1:I think there's some really important background about these teams and how they function and how they were founded. I want to remind listeners that we did an episode several months ago with Detective Brandon Wooten about domestic violence high-risk teams. You can find that in our podcast library. It gives you a lot of information about how they work and function and all the good that they can do for your community. And as valuable as all of these teams are, women are still being murdered by their partners. It stands to reason that some of the contributing factors may be that intervention opportunities are being missed by formal and informal service providers. So to these points, I have several questions and, jan, I'm going to start with you. Are referrals being made to agencies regardless if a third party called police?
Speaker 2:Right, right, if a neighbor calls the police, or a pastor or priest calls the police, or a witness, or a witness, absolutely, a witness. Absolutely the police will respond. They're supposed to respond and during the interview with the victim and with the perpetrator, they are given the information about Genesis and some of the other local resources. Yeah, absolutely, it doesn't have to be the victim that calls, it doesn't have to be the perpetrator. And, even more important, if you are a bystander, if you are a witness, if you suspect something, you need to do something. I've had many friends call me and say you know, I hear this screaming across the alley and I don't know what to do. And I'm like you don't know what to do. How do you not know what to do? If you heard somebody torturing an animal back there, you would definitely call the police or SPCA or something. But I don't understand that. I don't. I don't understand it because I wouldn't do it this way, but there are people who I don't. Should I get involved? Should I not say anything?
Speaker 1:What if it becomes a moral debate. Yes, you should say something. Yeah, you should. Yeah, you should. Let's talk about screenings and referral opportunities. How can those take place at locations or businesses that the victim is likely to visit, such as their salon, their hair salon, right?
Speaker 3:I think. So the thing that we always encourage is that people just become aware of what are some of the warning signs, what are some of the things that a victim might say or how she might contradict herself or how she might present in her behavior. That would just cue you that something may be going on. We're not expecting the general public to become experts on domestic violence. We just, like you were saying about witnesses and everything we just want people to take their gut seriously. If you're talking to a friend or a customer, or if you're an ER nurse and you're talking and something in your gut is telling you that there's something here, first of all, we want you to just really boldly ask like are you feeling unsafe in your home? Is anybody making you feel afraid? Because if they are, I just want you to know that you're not alone and I know somebody who could help you Right. And so just boldly asking the question.
Speaker 3:And even if that person denies because again, we've talked about this many times on the podcast denial is a very normal coping strategy and protective strategy in domestic violence. So it's very likely that she's going to deny. It's more likely than not that she's going to say oh, no, no, no, no, I'm fine, everything's fine. I always just really encourage people to follow it up with. Well then, just know that I'm worried about you and when you're ready or if you need anything, I'm here for you. Again, because, like we talked about earlier, one of the most common tactics in an abusive relationship is that isolation, the knowledge that a victim would have, that somebody is out there that she could call. She went six months without talking to him. If she needed to, she could reach out to that one person.
Speaker 2:It's absolutely a safety factor but there are other ways, like in the places that you were talking about. If I owned a washitaria, it would be all over the bulletin board. If I were an ob-gyn, I would have where you sign in on the time you arrived and that that clipboard um, are you safe home? If you want to speak with one of our physicians, please know. Or whatever.
Speaker 2:At the hair salon, I remember going to a training when I was with the Department of Justice. We went up to Philadelphia to a salon training school, like a hairdresser's school, and they were teaching them about. If you see a patch of hair missing, have the nerve to say and there are professions that touch me, my manicurist, for example them about. If you see a patch of hair missing, have the nerve to say you know it's. And there are professions that touch me my manicurist, for example we tell our nail salon and our hair salon people a lot of stuff, right, and I think we need to give them the tools those, those professions, the tools to be able to say I'm worried about you.
Speaker 3:We've also seen in restaurants and even in churches, in the stalls, in the bathroom, even just something hung up that has numbers and everything. So I do think that education, or that you know, I also think something that has improved over the years is back in the day, it was like a picture of a woman with a giant black eye and she's crying, and I think there are ways in which there are women who are actively experiencing abuse who would look that picture and go, oh well, that's not me, because I don't have a black eye, like you were saying a second ago. And so I think a lot of the literature and a lot of ways that people are doing this is recognizing those other signs or putting out information in as many areas in as many ways as possible.
Speaker 2:You just brought up a second ago in restaurants and we have one of our heroes, a member of our men's auxiliary, a guy named Kevin Lillis who is a hospitality owner. He's very well known in the hospitality industry and he began the National Association of Hospitality Against Domestic Violence and so he actually in all his restaurants will have a decal on the inside of the stall of the women's restroom saying if you do not feel safe, call, and it has Genesis number here in Dallas. Or you can ask for the Shirley Temple drink or the special drink, or come up to the bar and ask for Sheila. They will get you out the back door. So I'm envisioning somebody that maybe is on a first date or feeling, you know, uncomfortable, it isn't going so well and you know uncomfortable, it isn't going so well and you know she wants out and to be able to have to know you can rely on somebody that'll get you out that back door and into a Lyft or Uber or wherever you want to go. I just think if everybody did that.
Speaker 2:I spoke to a group last night. It was a sorority group and they were saying, well, what can we do? And I said, if we ever landed, think of us as a united group, if we ever landed on an issue that was incredibly important to violence against women and all 400,000 Cayamagas call their elected officials on one particular day, I think we'd be heard. So I think it's everything from let your voice and your vote be heard, to be willing to stand up and take a stand and I've done it well and I've done it poorly where I've been in a store and just say you know, tell me why you have that black eye. And it turned out to be not a black eye, anyway. So what have I lost? Nothing. I haven't lost anything. But had it been somebody had hurt her. I was right there with the cards and the phone numbers and the resources.
Speaker 3:I feel like the common theme thread here is the taking it seriously. Right, yeah, you feel like something's off. Say something. You were talking about the witnesses calling the police. You know it just continues to be that see something, say something, where we're trying to go in so many areas of our society because for so long it's been oh well, that's behind closed doors, They'll handle it. Don't kind of get in their business, kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:I can't encourage people enough to call their elected officials. I was sharing with a group last night how that first day when there was an executive order that wiped out all funding for nonprofits, any kind of services, rape crisis, on and on. I immediately called our Senator, senator Cornyn's office, and, I promise you, I didn't even tell him who I was, and the chief of staff picked up the phone and said well, hi, jan, I expected to hear from you today.
Speaker 2:I'm like well good, yeah, well good, I'm on a speed dial, right, so anyway. Anyway, we all can do something. This is not an issue that can be left on the steps of a fatality review or the steps of the police or the DA's office. We all have to be prepared to turn each to the other and say I'm scared for you, and there is help and hope.
Speaker 1:Yeah there is a lot of layers here. There are a couple of other things I want to get to before I let you go, and one of them in particular is the LAP Lethality Assessment Protocol. Are police departments conducting LAPs across the board? Let's just focus on Dallas County? Is that happening, or are there gaps in the chain of custody of those documents?
Speaker 3:They are happening. So we have a commitment from the Dallas Police Department to be doing lethality assessments on all domestic violence calls. So if a 911 calls, it comes in it's domestic violence. The officer goes to the scene. He's supposed to take the victim through a series of questions. That's really assessing for the risk of really escalated and severe violence or homicide within this situation. And so we do.
Speaker 3:There are other departments that not everybody across the state is doing it. We hear more and more departments taking it on and I think that's such an incredible thing because you know it's researched, it's standardized, it's evidence-based to demonstrate a likelihood for future violence, a likelihood for escalated violence and potentially for this person to be murdered right, and I think it's just so important, not only because it means we're taking it seriously. We're asking the question, we're saying very clearly are you afraid? Has this happened to you? Do you need help? But then we're able to really look at what are those risk factors and take those risk factors really seriously, even if they're ones that are not necessarily the very blunt, obvious things like a black eye, like we've been talking about Right, right, right, right, and it gives the next step, which is the referral straight into Genesis or the family place that that call is made at the scene.
Speaker 2:You know, are there some women who don't want to fill it out? You bet. There was an article in the paper not long ago about how some people took a sampling of LAP forms and only they found that 10% weren't being completed and they were sort of looking to the police. Well, they took a sample of 50 and so there were five that weren't complete. Well, I would say that was primarily because somebody didn't want to complete them. It wasn't the downfall of the Dallas police. The chief of police is very dedicated to the lethality assessment. It can reduce homicide, so it's a really important piece.
Speaker 3:We are really hopeful about, in always talking about it, that it would increase the number of referrals. Maria, we don't again. We know that DPDs committed to doing them. We know that they're being done. We do feel like we want to just constantly be affecting positively the referral part of it. Right, that we can increase the amount of victims that are getting in direct contact. We were talking about fatality review earlier, jan and the you were talking about the fact that it previously we went around the table and nobody had had contact with it. Well, horrifically, that's kind of still happening and so we are still having conversations about how do we increase those referrals.
Speaker 3:It's not that the referrals aren't being offered, but the ability to really connect with her. In that moment we just it's an example of how we're always looking for what's the space that we could be doing better, what's the space that we could be doing more effectively? That you know, in that moment it's important for people, for victims, to understand that she doesn't have to come into shelter. I think a lot of times she's afraid that if we're, if the police officers, so what? What happens is when they do the assessment, if there is a concern regarding the risk, the officer will call Genesis or a family place on the phone so that the victim can talk to an advocate immediately.
Speaker 3:And we find that there's a lot of times where she's really afraid that she's going to have to do something right then.
Speaker 3:Right that she's going to have to come into shelter, right that second.
Speaker 3:And there are women who do come into shelter right in that moment and seek get safe right in that moment. But in a lot of times it's a really overwhelming moment. There's high trauma, she is like exhausted and she's scared about what's going to happen next. And so the benefit of that referral and of that contact is just knowing that we're there and being able to say of that referral and of that contact is just knowing that we're there and being able to say, when you're ready, we can sign you up for we could schedule her an advocacy intake or an illegal intake or a counseling intake right there on the phone, and it not just be shelter, but sometimes that's even a little too much in that moment, a little too overwhelming, and so we're just able to say here's what we can offer you when you're ready. And then we do see that there are women who call back, who you know I talked to you several weeks ago with a police officer and now I do want to schedule that counseling appointment.
Speaker 2:I swear I remember this client who the husband was still in the house, he hadn't left, but he was in the house and they gave her these resources and basically, right in front of the police officer, she just ripped it up and just threw it in his face. And I'm sure it would have been human nature for the cop to go out and just say, well, that's your problem, lady, right. But I ask, why would she rip that up, why would she destroy that and throw it in the cop's face, the police officer's face? Well, the abuser's sitting right there. It was safety planning and one way she knew how and she threw all those pieces of scrap away, except for 214-946-HELP. She kept that number between the lining and the sole of her shoe and eventually came into Genesis because that police officer did what he or she was supposed to do. I'll never forget that client because it really it doesn't matter their reaction If you ask a friend and they get mad at you. It doesn't matter their reaction, it's about doing the right thing.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really important reminder of the responsibility of not just law enforcement in these cases, but also the rest of us. So, family and friends, you pointed out there are specific cases that we read about in the media that we almost can't believe that this woman was murdered by her husband or intimate partner because they had the perfect life. They defined success in America a successful marriage or successful career, financially affluent and so on and perhaps in some of these cases no one thought to ask her are you safe? Are you experiencing abuse? Tell me what's happening with you. What can we say to her? People who are listening, who may be concerned about someone but are afraid to say something to that woman or that individual? What resources can we give them?
Speaker 3:Well, I haven't. I've been involved with the fatality review for about five years now and in the reviewing I always love how you say that, jan, that we are honoring her by trying to review what happened and see like where where things could have been different. There's no magic formula to determining whether or not this relationship is going to end in murder and this one isn't. But there there are these risk factors and what I have heard repeatedly within these meetings is family and friends who, after was discovered that she had been murdered, popped up pretty quickly saying, well, he did do this weird thing, or there was never any abuse, but he was very financially controlling, he got really jealous and didn't want her to go to brunch with our girlfriends anymore. And so there's just been this pattern for the last five years and before, of course right, I know this to be true because of the research in domestic violence there's been this where family and friends may say, well, we didn't have any knowledge that there was abuse, but there were these things, and I think that but is so important, and I think that but is kind of maybe the point of this podcast of like that their gut knew something was not normal in this relationship was not okay.
Speaker 3:One time when I was on the stand Jan and I provide expert testimony within court I was testifying in a divorce trial and so his attorney, the abuser's attorney I had testified saying that the client had reported feeling afraid and sad and hurt within her counseling sessions. And so the divorce attorney said well, you know they're getting a divorce. Isn't it normal to be upset? And I said it's normal to be sad. It's not normal to be afraid. It's not a normal feeling to feel afraid of your partner, to fear being punished by them. And so I think it's imperative that family and friends recognize and again trust that gut feeling of there's not, there's something here that's not normal.
Speaker 3:I can't tell you that it means 100% she's going to be murdered, but I can tell you that there, if there's a 1% chance, shouldn't we say something? Shouldn't we say, hey, he's doing this and it does not seem right, it doesn't seem okay that you're being treated this way. Have you thought about talking to somebody? I'm always really careful to make sure, maria, that I say that I don't think it's fair to ever um sound like family and friends should become experts on domestic violence. Domestic violence is complicated. It's contextual, it's a pattern, it's, it's got layers, like you were saying earlier, and so I really think, like, leave the expertise to Genesis, but just take the risk of saying, hey, you should go talk to Genesis. And I do say take the risk because, like you said, jan, we do hear a lot that people are afraid of upsetting the victim, of upsetting the person. They don't want them to be mad that they were judging their relationship.
Speaker 3:What I've found, especially in 18 years of speaking to victims of domestic violence and you know we've had podcasts about stages of change- we have yeah so we have victims who come in and they don't identify as victims of domestic violence, but they're whoever told them, their CPS worker or their friend, whoever said why don't you go talk to those ladies at Genesis? So she's sitting in front of me saying, well, it's not that bad, or sometimes he does this, but it's okay. And so what I found is when I say, from a genuine place of care, even as a person who's just met her that day, hey, I want you to hear me say I'm not here to judge you, but I am worried about you. That has always been received really in an appreciated way, right, Nobody's ever. Maybe there's this um, upsetness, because they're really difficult words to hear. She's actively trying to protect herself from this reality, right, um. But the anger is not at me and you said it earlier, so I can't help but repeat it again. I will gladly have her be mad at me if it means she stays alive, right, right.
Speaker 3:And so I think to your point of what are the referrals? What are the things? Genesis is absolutely the referral. Don't feel like you have to be an expert on the things, but call us, call our hotline, and ask questions. What you know, my sister or my friends going through this. What do I say to her? And we can answer some of those questions.
Speaker 3:We actually have a friends and family group that we offer at our Lucas location where people can come in and get some of the information on the dynamics of domestic violence and the education so that maybe, if they do want to be able to tell her what is verbal abuse, they could explain that a little bit more clearly. So we have a lot of referrals. We have a lot of education on our website, right. A lot of referrals. We have a lot of education on our website, right. Genesis shelterorg has a lot of education materials on there that they could use um to be able to talk to her about it.
Speaker 3:But I think the biggest one is, you know, again, if it feels like there's something here, say, hey, this dynamic seems a little off between you and your husband. Have you ever felt afraid of him? Like, ask the question. And if the question is yes, I felt afraid of him, say I think it'd be really important for you to talk to somebody. It doesn't mean that we have to expect her to change anything immediately or do anything, because we don't want to put pressure on her, but it does mean that we can just be really clear and it would be important for her to talk to someone.
Speaker 2:You know it's almost easier. I was thinking while you were talking about that that if it is a friend, a girlfriend and you're at lunch and you can talk about, you know that seems a little weird to me. But raising two daughters I had heard so many stories about. When parents try to jump in on it, then you create the star-crossed lovers that the world is against us and your parents don't like me and you know, almost digging in and supporting the abusive side of it, protecting him in that relationship, and so it's not always, it doesn't always fall on welcoming ears when you do reach out. And again, I'm not worried about the checker and Kroger being mad at me. I always say I had to go to a different Kroger but I just that's all right. But when it's a child and you, you risk losing that child, but still you say it because if you don't, you really risk losing that child.
Speaker 3:Well, but I'd argue that oftentimes in those situations it's because in saying something to that child, there was the you have to do this.
Speaker 2:That's how you say it. Right and apparent, though exactly that may be appropriate. Right, that's how we operate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but in other situations.
Speaker 3:You're not telling them they have to do something, but you are saying you're sort of being a mirror to. There's something here that's concerning I'm worried about you because you deserve to be safe. I just want to clearly ask are you okay, are you? Is anybody hurting you? Going back to the lethality assessment, it's interesting because the research behind the lethality assessment of course determines that there are some things that are really high risk indicators for homicide, like strangulation. If a woman experiences strangulation one time, she's 11 times more likely to be killed by that person.
Speaker 1:And just to elaborate on that a little bit for listeners, strangulation is more than just being strangled to death.
Speaker 3:Right. So strangulation. The legal definition of strangulation is impeding breath, and I always use that one because that means if anything is done that even slightly makes it harder for you to breathe, it's considered legal strangulation. So this could be squeezing you, it could be sitting on you, put a pillow over your face, pushing you underwater, pushing your face into the mattress, putting something over your head. We, a lot of our clients, will talk about that. Their partner held his hand up to their neck, didn't necessarily squeeze, but held it in a way to demonstrate that he could do that if he wanted to. Dominance, yeah, I would even consider that strangulation for the sake of this risk factor. Right, right that if there's anything in that realm, it's a high indicator for a risk of homicide Physical abuse. Of course, is a high risk factor Alcohol or drug abuse in the home guns being present.
Speaker 3:We talked about this all the time on the podcast Right Right. But then there's other things that are risk factors that maybe people aren't so aware of. One's like, if there is the presence of a non-biological child in the home, it actually increases the risk factors of homicide. If there's financial abuse, 93 to 99% of victims of domestic violence report experiencing financial abuse. So financial abuse is actually a risk factor for homicide.
Speaker 3:Controlling behavior so one of the things that there's been ongoing research and one of the recent studies looked into, not only just like physical abuse, but what was the physically abusive behavior that maybe demonstrated the highest likelihood of homicide? Of course strangulation is the number one there, but it wasn't a specific physically abusive behavior. It wasn't that slapping was more severe than pushing or anything like that. It was the presence of physical abuse with controlling behaviors, and I think that's a major area that gets left off all the time is well, he was, you know, I didn't know that he was physically abusive, but I've seen him be really controlling to her. And so I have just been talking a lot about controlling behaviors, that if you are aware that your family or friend or that somebody is experiencing a lot of control within the relationship, that that's a that's a risk factor of there being some pretty serious abuse happening behind closed doors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot here and a lot for people to take in. So if they weren't taking notes to your point, they should go to our website, genesisshelterorg slash types of abuse, and you can learn more about all the different types of abuse that we've encountered with clients at Genesis Women's Shelter and also find more information, additional resources, as well as that number that Jan pointed out 214-946-HELP, 214-946-4357, where you can call us a loved one, friend or a person who really cares about someone who may be experiencing domestic violence. So, before I let you go, a lot of these cases are handled in the media. That's where we learn about. You know, john killed Mary or Mary was killed by John, as you often point out, is a significant headline.
Speaker 2:Let's talk just for a minute about how the media is portraying victims of domestic violence as well as perpetrators. Well, I think that it continues to have an emphasis on sensationalism. There can be five homicides in one day, but the one that the media picks up is the guy who killed her with a chainsaw. So I find that in the media they still are trying to bring out the absolute worst things that somebody could kill somebody with. So the media isn't always our friend. And if five were killed, and we're talking about that one, four went unnamed, they went unserved, they went unhonored. So correct me if you think I'm wrong on that, but I think the media sensationalizes it, which makes it worse for somebody who is wanting to leave, but they're so afraid that that could be them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, jen. I think the point about media sensationalizing things and the way that we report them right, I think it's a really important factor. Think it's a really important factor, you know, in my experience working with victims of domestic violence again, because the really common coping strategy, survival, skill of denial is really there and minimizing is a thing. Oftentimes victims will look at those headlines and go, oh well, that's not me, because he hasn't done that thing. And so in a lot of ways it's like we have to be very careful about how we talk about domestic violence, because we don't want to imply, and yet the media is implying or straight up saying that if it doesn't look like this, then it's not domestic violence, right, or it's not serious enough, it's not that bad when the reality is.
Speaker 3:Again, when I read those articles, I can go through and hear financial abuse, emotional abuse, jealousy, controlling behaviors and go that's the domestic violence, that's the risk factors right there.
Speaker 3:And so I think it's important for for not only the media to take seriously in in how they're saying these or or to be aware of the sensationalism, because victims will read it and sort of distance themselves from it in that way. But I think it's also important because it just shows us that just because you can't see the black eye, just because you can't see the violence, doesn't mean that she's not a victim of domestic violence. Again, jan and I provide export court testimony all the time because we're oftentimes having to explain how she's still a victim of domestic violence just because she doesn't have a black eye or pictures of injuries or, um, because a lot of times the media has really put about this thing that like you have to prove that you for sure, you have to have video of him beating you, or there's no evidence. And so then there's this space where we're like, well, did it really happen? Was it really that bad for her? So I think on both sides of it it's sort of this um, we appreciate that they're talking about domestic violence?
Speaker 3:Yes, we are, you know you and I have both done interviews on financial abuse and on, so I do think there's ways in which it is getting better what they're talking about and how they're trying to put out information about domestic violence, but the sensational headlines still are the.
Speaker 2:They can be a problem. Put on your counselor hat for a second. Don't you think all of us want to think it's somebody else, that this happens only to a certain group, and it doesn't matter which group you're pointing to, it's just a group other than mine, and somehow that makes us feel safer, I think.
Speaker 3:I know that we all avoid changing by avoiding and we all avoid changing because changing is hard and you can't change anything without losing something, even when you want to change. Even if I want to lose weight and that's the change I want to do, well, then I lose the chocolate cake that I love, right?
Speaker 3:And so yeah, I think that avoidance is a very normal coping skill victim of domestic violence is doing because she doesn't want to lose her home, her neighborhood, her friends, her job, her all the things that she might have to change in order to get away from him, because he won't stop.
Speaker 2:But I heard a police officer say one time that, um, you know it's harder for rich women to get out because they walk away from so much. They walk away from everything. And I said it doesn't matter what your net income is when you walk away, you most often walk away with nothing but the clothes on your back. And single moms are most. Single moms live in poverty. 75% of single moms live in poverty and that's whatever status there was. It drops immediately when she walks out that front door. But it doesn't matter the color of your skin or where you went to school or if you didn't go to school. This is what we refer to often as an equal opportunity epidemic. It knows no boundaries.
Speaker 1:Jan and Jordan thank you for talking with me today. Thanks for having us, Maria. Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe.