The State of Energy
The State of Energy
National Strategic Propane Reserve- Could the Gov plan have any value to consumers?
In this Independence Day episode of The State of Energy, Tom Clark and Rand DeWitt unpack everything from rain-soaked propane showcases in New Mexico to billion-dollar federal grants for low-emission transit. They break down the push for a national propane reserve, the real state of propane supply, and how your community can tap into major funding for propane-powered buses.
U.S. Sen. Gary Peters, D-Michigan, was joined by Republican U.S. Sen. Steve Daines of Montana in introducing the Securing Our Propane Supply Act
The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) announces the opportunity to apply for $1.1 billion in competitive grants for the fiscal year (FY) 2025 Low or No Emission Grant Program (Low-No Program) under Federal Assistance Listing Number 20.526 and approximately $398 million in competitive grants for the FY 2025 Grants for Buses and Bus Facilities Program (Bus Program) under Federal Assistance Listing Number 20.526.
Welcome to the State of Energy. I'm Randy Witt, along with a man who may or may not have been called to testify at the Diddy Trial, Tom Clark, Executive Director of Rocky Mountain Propane Association. Are you going to share the gory details? The Diddy? The what? The Diddy details? No, it's crazy on how much, just how much... And TMZ is dedicated to this.
SPEAKER_00:What does P. Diddy have to do with P. Propane?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. We're just trying to figure out if you were called to testify or not. And, you know, may or may not. We're just going to go with it. All right. Well, you know, Diddy is a fan of petroleum products, just different types. Baby oil, right? Yeah. So, Tom.
SPEAKER_00:You okay? I'm doing good.
SPEAKER_01:It's been a while. It's
SPEAKER_00:been a
SPEAKER_01:while. It's been like two weeks since we've... I know. You've been cruising all over the country. You were at D.C. for propane days. You were in New Mexico. And now Independence Day season is here. America's birthday is here. What are you doing for 4th of July?
SPEAKER_00:You know, I'm going to go to the Huntsville 4th of July shenanigans. They do a little parade up there. That's where I grew up. Nice. It's nice to see friends and family.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm going to be here. Tony, our director, has a world-famous yearly pool party, an awesome pool party, barbecue, and I guess the best way to put it is an artillery demonstration.
SPEAKER_00:That seems to be pretty popular. You've got to launch as much smoke in the air and create as much particulate matter and as much carcinogens as you possibly can on the 4th of July.
SPEAKER_01:And you also have to use fireworks. So let's run down, Tom. Okay, first of all, you can find us online, thestateofenergy.com. We're on Instagram, at thestateofenergy. But if you do go to our website, thestateofenergy.com, you can find out where to get propane near you, check out past shows, and rebates. Rebates. We're going to be talking about some rebates today.
SPEAKER_00:You know, everybody that listens to our show, a little bit of value instead of just humor. So yeah, we definitely want want everybody to know what type of financial incentives are out there to continue or expand your clean burning propane appliances or vehicle or whatever it is that you're going to use your propane for. We're going to give you the details on the best incentives out there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we've got a story coming up shortly. It's over a billion dollars in grants, so stay tuned for that. Now, let's run down what's been going on with Tom for the month of June, now that we're moving into July and summertime. But you had a busy June. You were in D.C. for propane days.
SPEAKER_00:It was go, go, go. Yeah, it's been busy.
SPEAKER_01:Was anybody there talking about the Secure Our Propane Supply Act when you were in D.C.?
SPEAKER_00:That never actually came up, but we talked a lot about different different things going on. The big one was the LIAP program or LIHEAP program, low-income energy assistance for all your utilities, electric, gas, natural gas, propane. So that's been interesting. everybody from, from those programs has been let go. So there's no funding available for that. And it's a, it's a big deal about 5% of residents or 5% of the population rely on some type of federal assistance for your heating and air conditioning bills. So that's, it's a big deal, but it's expensive too. It's a billions of dollars that, that get put into almost a, almost a welfare program. And so it, it tends to have abuse. And this, this administration is really trying to clean up any, any abuse and waste. And, and, uh, that's one that's kind of sensitive. That's being, uh, looked at getting, getting the ax.
SPEAKER_01:Hmm. Well, um, I bring up the national strategic propane reserve, um, or Supply Act, because I'm guessing you didn't run into U.S. Senator Gary Peters of Michigan. It's only a hunch, but I don't think you were hanging out with him.
SPEAKER_00:We didn't, but we did run into Senator Daines, who was a co-sponsor of that, and we ran into him in one of the oddest places. We had a group dinner, and we couldn't get a meeting with him. I emailed his offices and said, Hey, we're coming into town. We'd love to talk to you about propane. And I just couldn't, I couldn't seem to, uh, to get any type of response from their office and our, our small group, it was, uh, probably eight of us were at dinner and, uh, Here goes Senator Daines into the corner and eating dinner with somebody. I think it was some staff.
SPEAKER_01:Daines was dining?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he was dining, and we were able to corner him as he was leaving and talk about propane just for a second. But it was about five minutes later, we get an email from his staff that said, Hey, come on in. We'd love to talk to you.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, OK, well, that's good. Well, so folks know what we're talking about here. Taking a step back, we've all heard the National Strategic Oil Reserve. It's there to provide emergency stockpile of oil to protect us from severe supply disruptions like natural disasters, conflicts or major supply chain interruptions. And now we're talking about U.S. Senator Gary Peters, along with Senator Daines, are reintroducing securing our Propane Supply Act. It was introduced in 2023, but died in committee like all good things do. Now, Now, what's going on is the bill would have the Department of Energy look into creating a national strategic propane reserve. Basically, a giant emergency stash of cozy. You know, because we know Michigan, it tops the nation in propane use. They've got over 300,000 households depending on propane, especially in the Upper Peninsula, where 18% of homes heat with propane and 100% of the people are tougher than us.
SPEAKER_00:What do you think that looks like? A government-run... propane facility
SPEAKER_01:i don't know but i got a feeling you're going to be running it it's only a hunch
SPEAKER_00:i you know if you want to screw something up really good wow give it to uh some bureaucrats to to manage this is this is um this is a terrible
SPEAKER_01:idea so did you have this con so this was This was not discussed with
SPEAKER_00:Senator Gaines. I did not know that this... So this news just came out just a couple days ago. So this was not discussed when we were in D.C. It wasn't anything on our agenda.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. All right. Well, let's shift over to... But let's talk about it,
SPEAKER_00:though. Let's continue this on. So here's the thing. There's... and by the way, California actually uses more, more propane than Michigan, but really, uh, the, the propane supply in the United States is it's produced in different ways, mostly through natural gas gathering. So the natural gas, uh, is produced in, there's a few States that produce the most natural gas, like Texas, Wyoming, New Mexico, um, Montana produces a lot. And then there's a lot that just gets pipelined to the points where we need it, and then it would be trucked to its final destination. So whenever somebody comes out and says there's a propane shortage, it's usually misinformation or it's not completely accurate because we actually produce three times more the quantity that we consume. So if you look at the annual statistics for how many gallons of propane we sell each year, it's around 9 billion gallons. But then we are also exporting another 30 billion gallons to other countries. And we've talked about this a lot. There's emerging countries use propane as as their fuel to get them away from using wood and dung and all sorts of dirty things. It's true, right? We've talked about it. It is
SPEAKER_01:true. We just
SPEAKER_00:haven't
SPEAKER_01:mentioned dung in a
SPEAKER_00:while. We've talked about it a lot. So what irritates me about this is they call it, you know, they almost make it sound like there's a problem. And the problem isn't necessarily... that there's a shortage, but maybe at a particular time, there might be a weather-related issue um spike in in demand and then a decrease in your ability to get that product to where it needs to be consumed
SPEAKER_01:like in the carolinas when they were dealing with all those storms and everything that's when something like that happens
SPEAKER_00:yeah like texas during the big freeze uh a few years ago but you can't predict you can't predict that and you can't move once you build a big strategic supply point, you're not going to be able to move it around and say, oh, this year we think it needs to be in Iowa or Wisconsin or where these big states that use a lot of propane are. Because in that area, in that region, maybe call it like the Great Lakes region or whatever you want to call it, near Michigan and Illinois, they use around 30% of all the propane in the country. So somebody's great idea of putting putting a big strategic reserve it sounds great on paper but you still have the same problem
SPEAKER_01:what about what about having multiple places like multiple locations instead of just one reserve we haven't strategically placed reserves around the country
SPEAKER_00:yeah they call those propane companies okay
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for narrowing that down for me. So if you have a propane company, um, I'd take, for example, there's a, there's a big one here in Utah, um, down in Springville, they've got lots of storage to support their customers so that, that there's, um, a lot of storage to support their customers. Sometimes consumers need to think beyond just the price of the product. This is a three-part thing here. You've got some consumers you have to educate about how to... Prepare for the worst case as well. So you don't want to have too small of a tank at your house. You want to make sure that you are also aware that this product is delivered to you. So if there's a problem with the weather or there's some type of natural disaster, you want to make sure that you're protected, that you have enough storage to withstand those times. The second part would be on the propane companies. side right you want to make sure you're not overselling or over committing and so sometimes that separates the good companies from some of the the not so good companies so you want to make sure that you're you're dealing with a supplier that that has or a propane company that has enough uh enough supply and and are is aware of those challenges as well and then the third part would be the rules and regulations that we have to follow. So sometimes the struggles are, which will definitely happen with a strategic reserve as well, because you can only put so much product from a storage tank into a truck so fast. There's limitations on how quickly you can put propane from a storage tank to the truck and then get the truck to the end user. These are the And all three of those need to work together to make sure that you don't have some type of situation because we always hear about the bad news, but we never really hear about the good news. So whenever somebody, my guess is this, this Senator that's sponsoring this, he probably has a cabin somewhere out in the middle of nowhere in Michigan and he probably ran out of propane one day and somebody said, well, yeah, we don't, we can't get any to you right now because you procrastinated and you waited too long. So now he thinks he's going to have some big federally funded reserve bill. So that would be my guess. There's probably a little bit of truth to that, but that's my wild guess on that situation.
SPEAKER_01:Hold on, I've got an incoming call right now. It's from Senator Daines. I'm not going to take this. You are listening to The State of Energy. I'm Randy Witt, along with Tom Clark, Executive Director of Rocky Mountain Propane Association, the man with the big brain. Find out more about what propane can do for you by going to thestateofenergy.com. And we're running down Tom's terrific June as we head into July and enjoy summertime and Independence Day weekend. And you were recently in New Mexico. A lot going on there, including a big, beautiful balloon fiesta.
SPEAKER_00:The big beautiful balloon fiesta. Wow. So this event, this was a great event. It really was. It started off with a propane equipment showcase at the Balloon Fiesta Park. Unfortunately... New Mexico hasn't seen rain for, or Albuquerque hasn't seen rain for six months. And the day that we show up, it decided to just be an downright poor. I mean, it was just pouring. There was rivers in the streets. It was wild. So we had all this equipment set up. We had a balloon show up. We had the school bus. We had propane trucks. We were making chicharrones with the propane. There was food trucks. Did you just
SPEAKER_01:say chicharonis? Chicharonis. So was Robert there?
SPEAKER_00:No, but one of the Mets guys was there. It was going to be beautiful. It was going to be great. I'm sorry, I'm
SPEAKER_01:still back on
SPEAKER_00:chicharrones. The
SPEAKER_01:chicharrones. Is
SPEAKER_00:that how you say it? I know, I
SPEAKER_01:know. Did I say that
SPEAKER_00:wrong? No, you did. No, you sounded... You were right. They used propane. Oh, we also had a chili roaster. And it wasn't even chili season, so they imported chilies to roast for us. Wow. It was all set up. We had a couple tents set up and... The wind picked up and then the dark clouds came over and it just dumped and dumped and dumped. The balloon guy was... I don't know if you've seen... Setting up a balloon is kind of a little production. They got a bunch of people. Did you go up? No, they didn't even get the balloon. Because I've done that before. It's beautiful. They didn't get the balloon out of the trailer. It was just raining that bad. So they finally... They finally get all this stuff. The sun comes out for a minute, and everybody's just scrambling to get their stuff out of the mud and the wet. It was bad. But we had a decent turnout of people driving by. It was great.
SPEAKER_01:You guys need an umbrella? No? Good, okay. Well, I mean, so you at least got some stuff done. Were you going to go up in the balloon or was that not something you were
SPEAKER_00:going
SPEAKER_01:to do?
UNKNOWN:Uh...
SPEAKER_00:After seeing the thing in South America, I decided I wasn't going to go up
SPEAKER_01:in the balloon. Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, it's not that. I think it was the same day you were supposed to go down there I sent you that story.
SPEAKER_00:But the reality is the balloon fiesta deal in Albuquerque, it's a big event. It lasts for, I think it's a couple weeks, but it brings 200 and...$50 million of revenue to Albuquerque. That's
SPEAKER_01:a lot for Albuquerque.
SPEAKER_00:It's a lot of money. And you could not do this event without propane. There's no coal or electric burning balloons.
SPEAKER_01:So is New Mexico starting to see the light a little bit? Because they were going in a different direction for a while.
SPEAKER_00:There's a lot of different... policies out there that they don't think the whole thing through. So if you try to place policy onto the people that say you can't use a particular source of energy, that eliminates that energy from a lot more things than just what you thought you were trying to do. So there's other ways repercussions that would, would take place. And that would, that would be one of them. You would, um, if, if you only had propane as a, as a novelty fuel, uh, the balloon thing just wouldn't, wouldn't go. And, and, and, and chili roasting, you know how many gallons of propane New Mexico used to roast chilies? Uh, just at that one day, just one. It's a, it's a season. So there's like a, I don't know how long the season goes for, but a thousand.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:7 million gallons in New Mexico used... 7 million gallons. Just to do the chili roasting season. Just for chili roasting. Wow. That's a lot. It's a lot. It's almost 10% of the state's total... propane consumption is just for chili roasting. How long does this go on for?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I know a season
SPEAKER_00:is a couple of months. Yeah, the season's a couple of months. And if you really wanted to piss off a lot of New Mexicans, take away their propane during chili roasting season. Yeah, in the chicharrones. Yeah, then you would be in big trouble with no chicharrones and no chilies. What would you do?
SPEAKER_01:Well, we do. I want to make sure we give this story some good time here. Shifting over to the Federal Transit Administration is offering$1.5 billion in grants for fiscal year 2025 to support cleaner, more efficient public transportation. This includes$1.1 billion for low or no emission buses and$400 million for bus facilities and fleet improvements. Local, state, and tribal governments can apply through July 14th. Now, there's a cap of$100 million and$39 million per project respectively. And this is a great idea for any potential applicant to examine propane autogas as an option for their planned transit projects, wouldn't you say?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, we've been talking about the whole entire electric bus and propane bus funding for months or for years, actually. And so if The problem with this program is the time is running up. You have to have your application in by... The 14th. The 14th? The 14th. So there's a lot of money. There's a lot of money to go around. And it's kind of funny that they originally thought that this money would get scooped up by electric buses. But they're just not... And so they've kind of changed the rules a little bit. Now they call it low or no emissions grant program. And it's pretty simple. There's a billion dollars. for low or no uh emissions which is propane is the low emissions school bus and it's probably the most popular school bus uh way pop way more popular than an electric school bus but it's it's open to all sorts it not just a school bus but it could be for um it Any type of capital project, it could be a lease, it could be a purchase, it could be to restore or refurbish a bus, and it can go to all sorts of different agencies. It doesn't have to go to just a school. It could go to a contractor that provides transportation. So there's lots of ways to... There's lots of ways to use this money. It can also go towards the refueling and the maintenance facilities. So there's tons of money available. You just have to know the people that need this money and we have to get this information to them. So if you're listening to this show and you know somebody that does some type of public transportation, whether it be a school bus or any type of transportation, in the public sector, get them this information. Send them to our website and get your application in before July 14th so you can get some funding to help pay for some of these propane-powered buses.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's at thestateofenergy.com. Once again, just go to thestateofenergy.com. Act now. I mean,$1.5 billion in grants is a lot, and the window's closing very fast, very fast.
SPEAKER_00:We had one of these school buses at the Bloom Fiesta Park, that Tillery school bus. They're like a Bluebird dealer. They brought this bus down. We were going to have a spokesperson from the school bus— Let's see. It was near the Santa Fe area. They were going to come down and talk about their propane-powered plants. buses and how much money they save. Because when you're talking about the price difference between not only is the bus cheaper, but you also are saving a ton of money on the fuel. And the maintenance. So if you want to save your community a ton of money on fuel, on maintenance, and on a bus that actually works, as we've seen in Zions National Park, those buses have been running for 25, 26 years. They work and
SPEAKER_01:they're cheap to use. Those e-buses are not doing well there, by the way. People say they're too small. They constantly have to keep getting recharged. People are not happy.
SPEAKER_00:Propane buses is where it's at. There's money. to be had and it's not going to last very long. So get your community involved and get them some of this federal money for any of these buses or the bus facilities.
SPEAKER_01:There you go, Tom. We have to wish America a very happy birthday as we get into 4th of July weekend. Wish everybody a very safe and happy 4th of July weekend.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, sir. Happy birthday, America.
SPEAKER_01:That is Tom Clark, executive director of Rocky Mountain Propane Association. My name is Randy Witt, and we are always online at thestateofenergy.com.
