{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.16,"endTime":7.53,"body":"Welcome to questions from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.16,"endTime":7.53,"body":"the closet. I'm Ben Schilaty."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":7.63,"endTime":10.24,"body":"And I'm Charlie Bird."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":7.63,"endTime":10.24,"body":"Each episode we discuss a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":10.24,"endTime":13.03,"body":"question that we commonly get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":10.24,"endTime":13.03,"body":"asked as LGBTQ Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.03,"endTime":13.51,"body":"Saints."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":13.78,"endTime":15.91,"body":"We're not trying to answer"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":13.78,"endTime":15.91,"body":"this question or come to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":15.91,"endTime":18.97,"body":"consensus, but simply sharing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":15.91,"endTime":18.97,"body":"our perspectives. Today's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":18.97,"endTime":20.92,"body":"question is, should I go to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":18.97,"endTime":20.92,"body":"therapy?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":21.57,"endTime":23.61,"body":"Ben and I are not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":21.57,"endTime":23.61,"body":"terribly diverse, and we share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":23.61,"endTime":26.97,"body":"many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":23.61,"endTime":26.97,"body":"experiences. For example, both"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":26.97,"endTime":28.95,"body":"of us lost class elections in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":26.97,"endTime":28.95,"body":"high school."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":29.29,"endTime":31.18,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":29.29,"endTime":31.18,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":31.18,"endTime":33.79,"body":"example, Charlie ran for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":31.18,"endTime":33.79,"body":"president and I ran for Vice"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":33.79,"endTime":36.61,"body":"President. I don't want to have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":33.79,"endTime":36.61,"body":"to plan High School reunions for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":36.61,"endTime":38.44,"body":"the rest of my life. But I lost"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":36.61,"endTime":38.44,"body":"so..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":38.47,"endTime":40.24,"body":"I actually have to do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":38.47,"endTime":40.24,"body":"that. And it's terrible."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":40.0,"endTime":41.95,"body":"That does sound awful."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":40.0,"endTime":41.95,"body":"Anyway..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":42.96,"endTime":45.06,"body":"On this podcast, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":42.96,"endTime":45.06,"body":"like to provide a variety of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":45.06,"endTime":47.73,"body":"voices and perspectives. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":45.06,"endTime":47.73,"body":"today, we're joined by Jeff."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":48.41,"endTime":53.9,"body":"Hi, I'm Jeff Case. I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":48.41,"endTime":53.9,"body":"am a psychologist. I work"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":53.9,"endTime":57.44,"body":"primarily with veterans. I was a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":53.9,"endTime":57.44,"body":"an army psychologist for a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":57.44,"endTime":60.59,"body":"number of years before getting"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":57.44,"endTime":60.59,"body":"out of the army. And now I work"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":60.59,"endTime":64.4,"body":"with combat veterans and sexual"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":60.59,"endTime":64.4,"body":"trauma survivors from the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":64.4,"endTime":65.09,"body":"military."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":67.29,"endTime":70.595,"body":"That got heavy"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":67.29,"endTime":70.595,"body":"quickly, didn't it? But that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":67.82,"endTime":101.87,"body":"Heavy stuff."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":70.669,"endTime":74.93,"body":"kind of what I do. I, I am a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":70.669,"endTime":74.93,"body":"Latter-day Saint. I am gay. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":75.003,"endTime":79.631,"body":"have been married to my wife for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":75.003,"endTime":79.631,"body":"almost 23 years. We have three"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.705,"endTime":84.333,"body":"kids. We live in Happy Valley,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.705,"endTime":84.333,"body":"Utah County. My wife is a middle"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":84.406,"endTime":89.181,"body":"school teacher and a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":84.406,"endTime":89.181,"body":"I studied at BYU back in the 90s"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":89.255,"endTime":93.809,"body":"when I believed that I was the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":89.255,"endTime":93.809,"body":"only gay kid on campus. kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":93.883,"endTime":98.511,"body":"came out to myself during those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":93.883,"endTime":98.511,"body":"years. Right before my mission,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":98.584,"endTime":102.478,"body":"actually, my mission in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":98.584,"endTime":102.478,"body":"Miami--serving in South Beach"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":101.45,"endTime":109.31,"body":"12th Street Beach."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":102.551,"endTime":106.151,"body":"was my first area--really,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":102.551,"endTime":106.151,"body":"really solidified that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":106.224,"endTime":109.31,"body":"understanding that I think I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":106.224,"endTime":109.31,"body":"might be gay."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":110.6,"endTime":115.58,"body":"You know it. I did my"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":110.6,"endTime":115.58,"body":"undergrad degree at BYU in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":115.58,"endTime":120.83,"body":"music. I was in the marching"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":115.58,"endTime":120.83,"body":"band. So I was band president."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":120.89,"endTime":123.26,"body":"Oh, whoa. So you won an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":120.89,"endTime":123.26,"body":"election."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":123.32,"endTime":125.81,"body":"I it was an"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":123.32,"endTime":125.81,"body":"appointment by the director who"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":125.81,"endTime":126.35,"body":"really had..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":126.41,"endTime":128.12,"body":"You were that good."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":126.41,"endTime":128.12,"body":"What instruments did you play?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":128.9,"endTime":132.32,"body":"Well, tuba is my"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":128.9,"endTime":132.32,"body":"primary instrument. But uh, I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":132.32,"endTime":135.98,"body":"play piano and organ well enough"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":132.32,"endTime":135.98,"body":"to cover church. Played flute in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":135.98,"endTime":137.3,"body":"the Army Band for a number of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":135.98,"endTime":137.3,"body":"years."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":137.3,"endTime":138.95,"body":"I just see you as the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":137.3,"endTime":138.95,"body":"flutist."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":139.02,"endTime":141.54,"body":"You know, when you're"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":139.02,"endTime":141.54,"body":"in a parade, and you have the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":141.54,"endTime":145.44,"body":"option to carry 50 pounds of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":141.54,"endTime":145.44,"body":"brass or a little stick--you're"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":146.34,"endTime":148.17,"body":"gonna go with a little stick"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":146.34,"endTime":148.17,"body":"every time."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":148.6,"endTime":152.29,"body":"One of my very best friends"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":148.6,"endTime":152.29,"body":"moved to Chicago to get a degree"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":152.29,"endTime":154.99,"body":"in harp performance. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":152.29,"endTime":154.99,"body":"helped her move and she took two"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":154.99,"endTime":157.63,"body":"harps with her. I was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":154.99,"endTime":157.63,"body":"\"Leanne, why don't you just play"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":157.63,"endTime":158.08,"body":"the flute?\""},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":159.31,"endTime":161.41,"body":"Exactly right. We"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":159.31,"endTime":161.41,"body":"were at the end of a parade. And"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":161.41,"endTime":163.84,"body":"the tuba player said,\"I have to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":161.41,"endTime":163.84,"body":"go put my horn away.\" And I look"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":163.84,"endTime":166.48,"body":"back at him and said, \"Yeah, me"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":163.84,"endTime":166.48,"body":"too.\" And I stuck my Piccolo in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":166.48,"endTime":168.52,"body":"my pocket and just stared at"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":166.48,"endTime":168.52,"body":"him."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":170.25,"endTime":171.09,"body":"That's so fun."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":171.36,"endTime":175.98,"body":"Great. Well, Jeff, we want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":171.36,"endTime":175.98,"body":"to talk to you about from your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":176.01,"endTime":179.46,"body":"your clinical expertise. But we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":176.01,"endTime":179.46,"body":"also just want to know what,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":179.67,"endTime":183.69,"body":"what our experiences have been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":179.67,"endTime":183.69,"body":"like attending therapy as LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":183.81,"endTime":187.02,"body":"people. So I actually mentioned"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":183.81,"endTime":187.02,"body":"this a couple weeks ago on one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":187.02,"endTime":189.66,"body":"of our previous episodes, my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":187.02,"endTime":189.66,"body":"experience going to therapy at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":189.66,"endTime":191.58,"body":"BYU to change my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":189.66,"endTime":191.58,"body":"orientation--how that didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":191.58,"endTime":194.01,"body":"work, so I don't really need to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":191.58,"endTime":194.01,"body":"mention that again. But Charlie"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":194.01,"endTime":195.78,"body":"what is your experience in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":194.01,"endTime":195.78,"body":"therapy been like?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.5,"endTime":200.04,"body":"Yeah, I feel like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.5,"endTime":200.04,"body":"was, in a way very lead to go to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":200.04,"endTime":207.33,"body":"therapy. Back when I was at BYU,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":200.04,"endTime":207.33,"body":"I was I was Cosmo. Every time I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":207.33,"endTime":209.88,"body":"get a side eye from Ben. It's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":207.33,"endTime":209.88,"body":"like everyone knows..."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":209.91,"endTime":210.72,"body":"Wait, what?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":211.62,"endTime":213.87,"body":"Yeah, I was the dancing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":211.62,"endTime":213.87,"body":"Cougar."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":213.93,"endTime":216.18,"body":"Wait, on Cosmo"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":213.93,"endTime":216.18,"body":"magazine--there's some dancing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":216.18,"endTime":216.54,"body":"Cougar?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":216.54,"endTime":219.24,"body":"No Cosmo, the cougar"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":216.54,"endTime":219.24,"body":"Brigham Young University. Get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":219.24,"endTime":219.99,"body":"it? Right, folks."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":220.44,"endTime":221.28,"body":"Black eyes."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":222.08,"endTime":225.8,"body":"He's been listening. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":222.08,"endTime":225.8,"body":"yeah, I was I was working on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":225.8,"endTime":227.78,"body":"some new tricks. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":225.8,"endTime":227.78,"body":"really trying to get them. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":227.78,"endTime":230.75,"body":"needed more like technical"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":227.78,"endTime":230.75,"body":"training and a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":230.75,"endTime":233.63,"body":"time in the gym. And the cheer"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":230.75,"endTime":233.63,"body":"coach was gracious enough to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":233.63,"endTime":235.43,"body":"tell me I could come to some of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":233.63,"endTime":235.43,"body":"their practices when they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":235.43,"endTime":239.81,"body":"working tumbling on Tuesday"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":235.43,"endTime":239.81,"body":"mornings. So by some miracle, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":239.81,"endTime":243.14,"body":"woke up at six in the morning"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":239.81,"endTime":243.14,"body":"and made it their practice. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":243.32,"endTime":246.65,"body":"I was so disappointed when I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":243.32,"endTime":246.65,"body":"walked in because the practice"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":246.65,"endTime":249.5,"body":"had been replaced by like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":246.65,"endTime":249.5,"body":"presentation from the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":249.5,"endTime":251.57,"body":"psychological services"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":249.5,"endTime":251.57,"body":"department. And I was like, \"Oh"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":251.57,"endTime":255.44,"body":"my gosh, I don't have time for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":251.57,"endTime":255.44,"body":"this.\" And, and this time, I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":255.44,"endTime":258.74,"body":"really struggling, I'd been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":255.44,"endTime":258.74,"body":"going through a lot and hadn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":258.74,"endTime":262.34,"body":"come out to anyone. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":258.74,"endTime":262.34,"body":"just kind of like, crippling and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":262.34,"endTime":265.49,"body":"dying inside especially--and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":262.34,"endTime":265.49,"body":"just trying to stay so busy that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":265.49,"endTime":269.87,"body":"I wouldn't have to think about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":265.49,"endTime":269.87,"body":"it. But it wasn't working. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":269.87,"endTime":272.36,"body":"had some friends on the squad"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":269.87,"endTime":272.36,"body":"and I was like, \"I'm awake. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":272.36,"endTime":276.56,"body":"might as well just sit through"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":272.36,"endTime":276.56,"body":"this, this presentation.\" And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":276.56,"endTime":279.38,"body":"the last slide was a list of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":276.56,"endTime":279.38,"body":"kind of indicators that might"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":279.41,"endTime":282.35,"body":"say that, like you might think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":279.41,"endTime":282.35,"body":"of going to therapy if you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":282.35,"endTime":285.14,"body":"experiencing any of this. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":282.35,"endTime":285.14,"body":"was reading through the list"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":285.14,"endTime":290.93,"body":"things like you know, anxiety,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":285.14,"endTime":290.93,"body":"stress, restlessness, like just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":290.96,"endTime":294.17,"body":"feeling low, feeling not good"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":290.96,"endTime":294.17,"body":"enough and I can't exactly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":294.17,"endTime":298.4,"body":"remember. I feel weird because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":294.17,"endTime":298.4,"body":"I'm the only non-therapist on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":298.4,"endTime":299.36,"body":"the show today."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":300.65,"endTime":304.58,"body":"I'm a CSW not an LCSW. So I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":300.65,"endTime":304.58,"body":"don't, I'm not fully licensed."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":304.6,"endTime":342.31,"body":"Well, for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":304.6,"endTime":342.31,"body":"people, there's a real stigma"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":304.619,"endTime":306.659,"body":"Well, I'm sure you can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":304.619,"endTime":306.659,"body":"tell us a little bit more about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":306.659,"endTime":309.269,"body":"those indicators. But I looked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":306.659,"endTime":309.269,"body":"through the list and I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":310.079,"endTime":312.959,"body":"every single one of them I had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":310.079,"endTime":312.959,"body":"been experiencing that semester."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":313.499,"endTime":317.249,"body":"And so I ended up talking to my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":313.499,"endTime":317.249,"body":"coach later that day and asked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":317.249,"endTime":320.849,"body":"if Cosmo had the same access to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":317.249,"endTime":320.849,"body":"therapy as the cheer squad. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":320.849,"endTime":323.879,"body":"it turns out, I did. So that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":320.849,"endTime":323.879,"body":"kind of what got me going in."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":324.479,"endTime":328.319,"body":"And it happened very quickly."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":324.479,"endTime":328.319,"body":"And it was, it felt very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":328.319,"endTime":331.619,"body":"inspired. It was like a big leap"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":328.319,"endTime":331.619,"body":"of faith for me to finally get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":331.619,"endTime":335.789,"body":"there. But I had to have it like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":331.619,"endTime":335.789,"body":"painted out in a presentation"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":335.789,"endTime":338.849,"body":"slide like \"You need to go t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":335.789,"endTime":338.849,"body":"therapy.\" And it took that for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":342.34,"endTime":345.07,"body":"about therapy, right? So when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":342.34,"endTime":345.07,"body":"I'm in a room of students, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":345.07,"endTime":348.19,"body":"will often ask raise your hand,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":345.07,"endTime":348.19,"body":"if you have a dentist, right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":348.19,"endTime":352.0,"body":"Raise your hand, if you have a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":348.19,"endTime":352.0,"body":"family practice doc. Raise your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":352.0,"endTime":354.28,"body":"hand, if you have a physical"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":352.0,"endTime":354.28,"body":"therapist. Who has a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":354.28,"endTime":357.49,"body":"chiropractor in the room? Who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":354.28,"endTime":357.49,"body":"goes to see a therapist every"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":357.49,"endTime":360.16,"body":"week? And the room starts"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":357.49,"endTime":360.16,"body":"coughing and everyone stares at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":360.16,"endTime":363.52,"body":"their shoes. Because there's a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":360.16,"endTime":363.52,"body":"real stigma about mental illness"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":363.52,"endTime":367.15,"body":"that even calling it \"mental"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":363.52,"endTime":367.15,"body":"illness\" is kind of ridiculous,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":367.15,"endTime":370.36,"body":"because your brain is part of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":367.15,"endTime":370.36,"body":"your bod--surprise! But there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":370.36,"endTime":373.18,"body":"a real stigma about going to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":370.36,"endTime":373.18,"body":"seek help. And so a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":373.18,"endTime":377.38,"body":"people really suffer way longer"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":373.18,"endTime":377.38,"body":"than they need to, because of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":377.38,"endTime":380.29,"body":"how we talk about mental illness"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":377.38,"endTime":380.29,"body":"and how we look about look at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":380.29,"endTime":382.81,"body":"people who are in therapy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":383.67,"endTime":386.46,"body":"I think for a long"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":383.67,"endTime":386.46,"body":"time, I thought therapy was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":386.46,"endTime":390.96,"body":"something that was amazing for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":386.46,"endTime":390.96,"body":"somebody else, but not for me."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":391.32,"endTime":394.47,"body":"Yeah, well, it's it's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":391.32,"endTime":394.47,"body":"a difficult conclusion to kind"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":394.47,"endTime":398.67,"body":"of come to to realize that we do"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":394.47,"endTime":398.67,"body":"need help. And when one of my"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":398.67,"endTime":402.06,"body":"mission companions had a kidney"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":398.67,"endTime":402.06,"body":"disorder, and we had to take it"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":402.06,"endTime":404.4,"body":"easy on certain days, we had to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":402.06,"endTime":404.4,"body":"watch hydration levels, and if"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":404.4,"endTime":410.13,"body":"he ever got sick, we had to like"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":404.4,"endTime":410.13,"body":"shut down. And no one ever"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":410.13,"endTime":412.32,"body":"thought twice about that. I'm"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":410.13,"endTime":412.32,"body":"like, \"Oh, man, that sucks you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":412.32,"endTime":414.96,"body":"have a kidney problem,\" right?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":412.32,"endTime":414.96,"body":"But when the brain starts"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":414.96,"endTime":417.6,"body":"misfiring, we have a whole"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":414.96,"endTime":417.6,"body":"different conversation about"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":417.6,"endTime":420.84,"body":"that--they're they're weak,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":417.6,"endTime":420.84,"body":"they're broken. When I was in my"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":420.84,"endTime":424.02,"body":"Officer Basic Training course,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":420.84,"endTime":424.02,"body":"this is the the Army Medical"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":425.31,"endTime":427.26,"body":"Department--we had a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":425.31,"endTime":427.26,"body":"presentation that was given by"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":427.26,"endTime":431.01,"body":"our instructor who was a he--was"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":427.26,"endTime":431.01,"body":"a medic medical evacuation"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":431.01,"endTime":434.64,"body":"pilot--they call him \"dust off\","},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":431.01,"endTime":434.64,"body":"he was a dust off pilot. And he"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":434.64,"endTime":437.7,"body":"described the the scenes that he"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":434.64,"endTime":437.7,"body":"would go in on his three combat"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":437.7,"endTime":440.22,"body":"tours of kind of coming in,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":437.7,"endTime":440.22,"body":"picking up battlefield"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":440.22,"endTime":443.55,"body":"casualties and back out again,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":440.22,"endTime":443.55,"body":"usually under fire in really"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":443.55,"endTime":446.49,"body":"stressful situations life or"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":443.55,"endTime":446.49,"body":"death. And as he was talking"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":446.49,"endTime":448.89,"body":"about his stories, he said that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":446.49,"endTime":448.89,"body":"it was important for him to go"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":448.89,"endTime":452.25,"body":"see a therapist, to kind of work"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":448.89,"endTime":452.25,"body":"through this. And as he did"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":452.25,"endTime":454.83,"body":"that, he got like teary eyed."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":452.25,"endTime":454.83,"body":"And it was a really beautiful"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":454.83,"endTime":457.71,"body":"moment, I thought. But as we"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":454.83,"endTime":457.71,"body":"were leaving that room, I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":457.71,"endTime":461.64,"body":"overheard a couple physicians"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":457.71,"endTime":461.64,"body":"say, \"What a sissy.\" And I'm"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":461.64,"endTime":464.94,"body":"like, this is from the medical"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":461.64,"endTime":464.94,"body":"community, how are we still"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":464.94,"endTime":469.26,"body":"talking about therapy in these"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":464.94,"endTime":469.26,"body":"terms? What is it going to take"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":469.41,"endTime":472.71,"body":"for us to normalize the process"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":469.41,"endTime":472.71,"body":"of going to therapy?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":473.8,"endTime":478.24,"body":"I am trained as a social"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":473.8,"endTime":478.24,"body":"worker and, and my my most"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":478.24,"endTime":482.11,"body":"recent experience with therapy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":478.24,"endTime":482.11,"body":"was just a couple years ago. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":482.11,"endTime":484.27,"body":"was in the middle of my program,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":482.11,"endTime":484.27,"body":"and I was doing my summer"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":484.27,"endTime":488.59,"body":"internship and something really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":484.27,"endTime":488.59,"body":"triggering happened. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":488.59,"endTime":491.74,"body":"remember like sobbing one night,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":488.59,"endTime":491.74,"body":"just like sobbing, and I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":491.74,"endTime":494.26,"body":"needed to reach out. So I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":491.74,"endTime":494.26,"body":"reached out to some of my social"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":494.26,"endTime":496.39,"body":"work colleagues. And they're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":494.26,"endTime":496.39,"body":"like, \"Ben, you need to go to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":496.39,"endTime":499.42,"body":"therapy.\" And I was like, \"I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":496.39,"endTime":499.42,"body":"fine. I don't need to go to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":499.42,"endTime":502.69,"body":"therapy.\" Here I am like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":499.42,"endTime":502.69,"body":"training to be a therapist. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":502.72,"endTime":504.76,"body":"since I was attending BYU, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":502.72,"endTime":504.76,"body":"signed up to go to the BYU"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":504.76,"endTime":506.86,"body":"Counseling Center. Actually, all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":504.76,"endTime":506.86,"body":"my therapy experiences have been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":506.86,"endTime":511.78,"body":"at BYU. And so I signed up to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":506.86,"endTime":511.78,"body":"see a therapist, and we only met"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":511.78,"endTime":515.41,"body":"twice. But as we were talking,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":511.78,"endTime":515.41,"body":"she started teaching me about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":515.41,"endTime":519.4,"body":"minority stress. And I realized"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":515.41,"endTime":519.4,"body":"that I've been doing so many"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":519.4,"endTime":523.9,"body":"things, because I had this fear"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":519.4,"endTime":523.9,"body":"that if I made if I made any"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":523.9,"endTime":527.32,"body":"mistakes, if I did anything"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":523.9,"endTime":527.32,"body":"wrong, like my church, and my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":527.32,"endTime":529.81,"body":"community was just going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":527.32,"endTime":529.81,"body":"erase me and forget me. And like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":529.81,"endTime":532.84,"body":"that had just been weighing on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":529.81,"endTime":532.84,"body":"me. And I remember she, the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":532.84,"endTime":534.31,"body":"therapist, called me a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":532.84,"endTime":534.31,"body":"\"minority.\" And I'm like, \"I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":534.31,"endTime":537.01,"body":"not a minority. I'm a tall,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":534.31,"endTime":537.01,"body":"white English speaking male with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":537.01,"endTime":539.92,"body":"hair, like I am not a minority.\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":537.01,"endTime":539.92,"body":"And she said, \"Ben, you're gay"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":539.92,"endTime":541.96,"body":"in the Latter-day Saint"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":539.92,"endTime":541.96,"body":"community and that makes you a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":541.96,"endTime":544.69,"body":"minority. And that causes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":541.96,"endTime":544.69,"body":"stress.\" And so as we were able"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":544.69,"endTime":550.12,"body":"to talk through that, I realized"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":544.69,"endTime":550.12,"body":"all the things I did to to to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":550.12,"endTime":553.09,"body":"show that I belonged in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":550.12,"endTime":553.09,"body":"community. And after we talked,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":553.12,"endTime":554.62,"body":"I was like, Okay, well, these"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":553.12,"endTime":554.62,"body":"are the things I'm going to do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":554.62,"endTime":557.62,"body":"differently. And I changed some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":554.62,"endTime":557.62,"body":"of my behaviors. And after two"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":557.62,"endTime":561.1,"body":"sessions, I was fine. Like I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":557.62,"endTime":561.1,"body":"was, I was in a much better"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":561.1,"endTime":564.1,"body":"place. And it's interesting"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":561.1,"endTime":564.1,"body":"that, you know, sometimes there"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":564.1,"endTime":565.78,"body":"are long term things that we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":564.1,"endTime":565.78,"body":"need to talk about for a long"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":565.78,"endTime":567.79,"body":"time, but for me, it was really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":565.78,"endTime":567.79,"body":"just learning that I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":567.79,"endTime":571.03,"body":"minority and the things that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":567.79,"endTime":571.03,"body":"was doing, that were causing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":571.09,"endTime":571.93,"body":"extra stress."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":571.99,"endTime":575.26,"body":"Yeah, exactly. Right."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":571.99,"endTime":575.26,"body":"And I think to answer that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":575.26,"endTime":577.21,"body":"question, \"Should I go to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":575.26,"endTime":577.21,"body":"therapy?\" I think everyone"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":577.21,"endTime":579.52,"body":"should go to therapy. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":577.21,"endTime":579.52,"body":"going to say that it's a very"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":579.52,"endTime":582.88,"body":"privileged thing to be able to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":579.52,"endTime":582.88,"body":"go to therapy and and mental"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":582.88,"endTime":586.45,"body":"health is a is a touchy subject,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":582.88,"endTime":586.45,"body":"because for a lot of individuals"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":586.45,"endTime":588.91,"body":"who really need it, there's not"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":586.45,"endTime":588.91,"body":"access to it, right? It's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":588.91,"endTime":593.35,"body":"expensive for a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":588.91,"endTime":593.35,"body":"and and to have access to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":593.35,"endTime":597.58,"body":"therapy in general is kind of a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":593.35,"endTime":597.58,"body":"privilege thing. Because I think"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":597.58,"endTime":599.41,"body":"a lot of people could really"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":597.58,"endTime":599.41,"body":"benefit from it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":601.11,"endTime":604.32,"body":"So what are some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":601.11,"endTime":604.32,"body":"alternatives or maybe like ways"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":604.32,"endTime":606.9,"body":"to access therapy that somebody"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":604.32,"endTime":606.9,"body":"could use if they don't really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":606.9,"endTime":610.14,"body":"have the means or the privilege"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":606.9,"endTime":610.14,"body":"to be able to easily access?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":610.75,"endTime":613.21,"body":"Great question. First"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":610.75,"endTime":613.21,"body":"of all, most communities that I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":613.21,"endTime":616.3,"body":"know of have community mental"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":613.21,"endTime":616.3,"body":"health care. So going online and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":616.3,"endTime":619.78,"body":"looking up looking for community"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":616.3,"endTime":619.78,"body":"mental health care, or ways to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":619.78,"endTime":623.56,"body":"get into it that are affordable,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":619.78,"endTime":623.56,"body":"they're out there. There are"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":623.56,"endTime":626.59,"body":"other ways to go about it as"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":623.56,"endTime":626.59,"body":"well like through bibliotherapy."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":626.59,"endTime":631.6,"body":"So some, some good self-help"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":626.59,"endTime":631.6,"body":"books, can can be beneficial."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":631.6,"endTime":634.84,"body":"There are good workbooks out"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":631.6,"endTime":634.84,"body":"there for some individuals.  It"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":634.84,"endTime":637.75,"body":"just depends on what is it that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":634.84,"endTime":637.75,"body":"you're looking for. So why would"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":637.75,"endTime":640.3,"body":"a person go into therapy? It"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":637.75,"endTime":640.3,"body":"depends on a number of different"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":640.3,"endTime":643.12,"body":"variables. So in some cases,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":640.3,"endTime":643.12,"body":"there are people that have"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":643.3,"endTime":647.17,"body":"significant mental illness,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":643.3,"endTime":647.17,"body":"right? Psychological disorders,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":647.32,"endTime":650.59,"body":"we, we all experience mood,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":647.32,"endTime":650.59,"body":"right? There's a normal range"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":650.59,"endTime":653.71,"body":"where mood exists that we can"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":650.59,"endTime":653.71,"body":"that we have, that that we're"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":653.71,"endTime":656.77,"body":"mood instructs us, and it"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":653.71,"endTime":656.77,"body":"motivates us. Sometimes it's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":656.77,"endTime":660.46,"body":"uncomfortable, like anger or"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":656.77,"endTime":660.46,"body":"stress or depression. And"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":660.46,"endTime":664.09,"body":"sometimes mood is comfortable"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":660.46,"endTime":664.09,"body":"and motivating in a positive"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":664.09,"endTime":667.63,"body":"way, right? But then that mood"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":664.09,"endTime":667.63,"body":"can creep outside this, these"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":667.63,"endTime":671.2,"body":"normal parameters, and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":667.63,"endTime":671.2,"body":"anxiety--which is a good thing,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":671.2,"endTime":673.78,"body":"because there are rattlesnakes"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":671.2,"endTime":673.78,"body":"in the world--and it's good to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":673.78,"endTime":677.35,"body":"have anxiety, but when but when"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":673.78,"endTime":677.35,"body":"you look at a worm on the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":677.35,"endTime":680.38,"body":"sidewalk, the same as a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":677.35,"endTime":680.38,"body":"rattlesnake, your anxiety is a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":680.38,"endTime":683.92,"body":"bit out of step and can get"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":680.38,"endTime":683.92,"body":"reeled in can get some help for"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":683.92,"endTime":687.88,"body":"that. So that's kind of in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":683.92,"endTime":687.88,"body":"general therapy. But the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":687.88,"endTime":690.4,"body":"question is like, should LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":687.88,"endTime":690.4,"body":"people individually,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":690.52,"endTime":694.69,"body":"specifically, seek therapy and I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":690.52,"endTime":694.69,"body":"say, it can be very helpful,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":694.69,"endTime":697.0,"body":"right? It can be helpful,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":694.69,"endTime":697.0,"body":"working through a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":697.0,"endTime":700.45,"body":"shame issues, the internalized"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":697.0,"endTime":700.45,"body":"homophobia that we all have to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":700.45,"endTime":703.63,"body":"kind of go through before we can"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":700.45,"endTime":703.63,"body":"even really admit to ourselves,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":703.63,"endTime":706.93,"body":"right? One of my early"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":703.63,"endTime":706.93,"body":"experiences in grad school, we"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":706.93,"endTime":710.14,"body":"had to--it was my very first"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":706.93,"endTime":710.14,"body":"semester--we took a class called"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":710.14,"endTime":715.09,"body":"\"helping skills, which was like"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":710.14,"endTime":715.09,"body":"Therapy 101. But we had to like"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":715.12,"endTime":718.78,"body":"pair up in our, with our"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":715.12,"endTime":718.78,"body":"classmates, and do a 20 minute"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":718.78,"endTime":722.2,"body":"therapy session on each other"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":718.78,"endTime":722.2,"body":"just practicing empathy and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":722.2,"endTime":725.38,"body":"listening. And our professor"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":722.2,"endTime":725.38,"body":"came back and said, \"I watched"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":725.38,"endTime":728.38,"body":"all your videos. My first"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":725.38,"endTime":728.38,"body":"comment is you all need"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":728.38,"endTime":732.91,"body":"therapy.\" And that was the first"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":728.38,"endTime":732.91,"body":"time I've ever been told \"You"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":732.91,"endTime":737.14,"body":"all need therapy.\" But it can be"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":732.91,"endTime":737.14,"body":"a really helpful thing just to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":737.14,"endTime":738.25,"body":"kind of understand yourself."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":738.94,"endTime":741.94,"body":"Yeah, I think Elder Holland"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":738.94,"endTime":741.94,"body":"kind of broke ground on this. It"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":741.94,"endTime":745.72,"body":"was a general conference talk he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":741.94,"endTime":745.72,"body":"gave I think in October 2013."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":745.75,"endTime":746.08,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":746.77,"endTime":747.52,"body":"Oh, you actually pulled it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":746.77,"endTime":747.52,"body":"up?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":747.55,"endTime":748.48,"body":"Yeah, I just pulled it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":747.55,"endTime":748.48,"body":"up."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":749.95,"endTime":753.16,"body":"I guess I'll just read it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":749.95,"endTime":753.16,"body":"It says, \"When talking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":753.16,"endTime":755.53,"body":"specifically about depression,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":753.16,"endTime":755.53,"body":"anxiety and emotional"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":755.62,"endTime":758.26,"body":"affliction, Elder Holland gave"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":755.62,"endTime":758.26,"body":"the following counsel: 'Seek"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":758.26,"endTime":760.78,"body":"advice from reputable people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":758.26,"endTime":760.78,"body":"with certified training,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":760.81,"endTime":763.54,"body":"professional skills and good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":760.81,"endTime":763.54,"body":"values, be honest with them"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":763.54,"endTime":766.09,"body":"about your history and your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":763.54,"endTime":766.09,"body":"struggles. prayerfully and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":766.09,"endTime":768.52,"body":"responsibly consider the council"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":766.09,"endTime":768.52,"body":"they give and the solutions they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":768.52,"endTime":770.95,"body":"prescribe.'\" I remember"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":768.52,"endTime":770.95,"body":"listening to that talk and Elder"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":770.95,"endTime":773.59,"body":"Holland talking about his"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":770.95,"endTime":773.59,"body":"experience with with depression,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":773.98,"endTime":777.16,"body":"and how it just came suddenly"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":773.98,"endTime":777.16,"body":"and unexpectedly. And then he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":777.16,"endTime":781.72,"body":"said something like, if we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":777.16,"endTime":781.72,"body":"sick, we get a blessing and we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":781.72,"endTime":786.43,"body":"go to the doctor. And he said,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":781.72,"endTime":786.43,"body":"if we are emotionally sick, then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":786.46,"endTime":788.86,"body":"it would make sense for us to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":786.46,"endTime":788.86,"body":"get a blessing and also go to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":788.86,"endTime":792.79,"body":"see a professional. And so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":788.86,"endTime":792.79,"body":"would ask the person to check in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":792.79,"endTime":796.75,"body":"with themselves. If we if we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":792.79,"endTime":796.75,"body":"compare something like the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":796.75,"endTime":802.06,"body":"worst, or a severe situation to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":796.75,"endTime":802.06,"body":"to our situation that might be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":802.3,"endTime":804.88,"body":"more common. That doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":802.3,"endTime":804.88,"body":"that our situation doesn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":804.88,"endTime":809.35,"body":"require help. And, and as I as I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":804.88,"endTime":809.35,"body":"work with clients, and help them"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":809.35,"endTime":811.75,"body":"learn some of these skills,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":809.35,"endTime":811.75,"body":"these these things can be life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":811.75,"endTime":815.41,"body":"changing. And so I think that we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":811.75,"endTime":815.41,"body":"can, if we're feeling a place"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":815.41,"endTime":818.08,"body":"where we want something to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":815.41,"endTime":818.08,"body":"better, or we want to see an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":818.08,"endTime":821.83,"body":"improvement, of course it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":818.08,"endTime":821.83,"body":"doesn't hurt to to get a little"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":821.86,"endTime":824.2,"body":"to get a little help even if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":821.86,"endTime":824.2,"body":"we're not the worst case."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":824.78,"endTime":827.06,"body":"Well, and that's the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":824.78,"endTime":827.06,"body":"idea that that there are many"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":827.06,"endTime":829.73,"body":"people who come in for treatment"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":827.06,"endTime":829.73,"body":"who need to understand"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":829.73,"endTime":832.91,"body":"themselves better, resolve some"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":829.73,"endTime":832.91,"body":"conflicts that may not fall on"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":832.91,"endTime":836.69,"body":"the list of diagnosable"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":832.91,"endTime":836.69,"body":"disorders but benefiting from"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":836.69,"endTime":840.53,"body":"just taking a minute to pause"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":836.69,"endTime":840.53,"body":"and be introspective. We talk a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":840.53,"endTime":844.04,"body":"lot about, right now, self-care"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":840.53,"endTime":844.04,"body":"during this COVID-19 stuff,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":844.04,"endTime":847.07,"body":"right? Part of self-care is just"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":844.04,"endTime":847.07,"body":"pausing and focusing on"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":847.52,"endTime":850.43,"body":"yourself--what is it that I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":847.52,"endTime":850.43,"body":"need? And and psychotherapy is a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":850.43,"endTime":854.27,"body":"great place to do that where the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":850.43,"endTime":854.27,"body":"attention is on me. That was for"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":854.27,"endTime":857.15,"body":"me, the most uncomfortable thing"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":854.27,"endTime":857.15,"body":"about going to therap--when I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":857.15,"endTime":860.72,"body":"was an undergrad student also at"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":857.15,"endTime":860.72,"body":"BYU also at the Counseling"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":860.72,"endTime":863.3,"body":"Center.--found a great"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":860.72,"endTime":863.3,"body":"therapist. I just got lucky."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":864.65,"endTime":866.69,"body":"First of all, sitting in the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":864.65,"endTime":866.69,"body":"waiting room was so"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":866.72,"endTime":871.22,"body":"anxiety-inducing. Like everyone"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":866.72,"endTime":871.22,"body":"is staring at their shoes. Like"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":871.22,"endTime":873.8,"body":"they're the most interesting"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":871.22,"endTime":873.8,"body":"pair of shoes they've ever seen."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":874.28,"endTime":875.51,"body":"No one wants to be seen."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":875.6,"endTime":877.37,"body":"I will say that my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":875.6,"endTime":877.37,"body":"shoes were usually pretty"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":877.37,"endTime":877.85,"body":"interesting."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":877.87,"endTime":883.93,"body":"Yeah. I buy it. I was"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":877.87,"endTime":883.93,"body":"probably wearing flip flops. I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":883.93,"endTime":888.31,"body":"was looking at my toes but--not"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":883.93,"endTime":888.31,"body":"interesting. But going in and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":888.31,"endTime":890.47,"body":"like having the attention on me"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":888.31,"endTime":890.47,"body":"and I remember sitting down in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":890.47,"endTime":895.51,"body":"that chair that first time and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":890.47,"endTime":895.51,"body":"him looking at me expecting me"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":895.51,"endTime":899.32,"body":"to say something about me. I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":895.51,"endTime":899.32,"body":"don't do that very much. I play"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":899.32,"endTime":903.07,"body":"the tuba. I'm In the back of the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":899.32,"endTime":903.07,"body":"band, I'm not out front. I love"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":903.07,"endTime":906.31,"body":"talking as a therapist to other"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":903.07,"endTime":906.31,"body":"people because it's not about"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":906.31,"endTime":910.0,"body":"me. And that's my favorite place"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":906.31,"endTime":910.0,"body":"to be. So it was really useful."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":910.21,"endTime":915.28,"body":"I did it strategically. I went"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":910.21,"endTime":915.28,"body":"into the therapist in my last"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":915.28,"endTime":917.68,"body":"semester before I graduated."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":915.28,"endTime":917.68,"body":"That way, if it sucked, I could"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":917.68,"endTime":922.24,"body":"just graduate and go on with my"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":917.68,"endTime":922.24,"body":"life. But it was so helpful,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":922.36,"endTime":926.14,"body":"just to have a place and sit and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":922.36,"endTime":926.14,"body":"not to be judged. And to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":926.17,"endTime":929.17,"body":"experience really kind of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":926.17,"endTime":929.17,"body":"understanding myself for the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":929.17,"endTime":929.86,"body":"first time."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":930.33,"endTime":933.06,"body":"And it can be such a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":930.33,"endTime":933.06,"body":"powerful experience to just talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":933.06,"endTime":936.93,"body":"to someone who isn't involved in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":933.06,"endTime":936.93,"body":"your life, and have them just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":936.93,"endTime":939.09,"body":"reflect back the things you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":936.93,"endTime":939.09,"body":"saying so that you can see"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":939.09,"endTime":942.12,"body":"yourself in a way that maybe you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":939.09,"endTime":942.12,"body":"haven't seen yourself before."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":942.36,"endTime":944.94,"body":"And that is a can be a really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":942.36,"endTime":944.94,"body":"powerful healing experience."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":945.08,"endTime":947.63,"body":"Yeah, I think a good"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":945.08,"endTime":947.63,"body":"chunk of my therapy, it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":947.63,"endTime":951.35,"body":"even focused on being gay--and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":947.63,"endTime":951.35,"body":"and I was married at the time,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":951.35,"endTime":953.9,"body":"I'd been married for about two"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":951.35,"endTime":953.9,"body":"years--and we actually already"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":953.9,"endTime":958.04,"body":"had our first son. But the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":953.9,"endTime":958.04,"body":"bigger issue that I had to work"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":958.04,"endTime":963.95,"body":"on was perfectionism, and this"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":958.04,"endTime":963.95,"body":"really twisted view that I had"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":963.95,"endTime":967.1,"body":"of the atonement, that the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":963.95,"endTime":967.1,"body":"atonement didn't apply to me"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":967.1,"endTime":970.07,"body":"somehow in my mental gymnastics."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":967.1,"endTime":970.07,"body":"But I sat in the room with this"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":970.07,"endTime":973.49,"body":"guy, who fully accepted me for"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":970.07,"endTime":973.49,"body":"whatever I brought to the table,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":973.49,"endTime":976.7,"body":"no matter how ridiculous, he"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":973.49,"endTime":976.7,"body":"never laughed at me. But he just"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":976.73,"endTime":978.8,"body":"said, \"Let me just kind of show"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":976.73,"endTime":978.8,"body":"you what you look like right"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":978.8,"endTime":981.83,"body":"now.\" And I'm like, \"Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":978.8,"endTime":981.83,"body":"gosh!\" I'm laughing at myself."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":981.86,"endTime":985.13,"body":"Who? Who thinks these thoughts,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":981.86,"endTime":985.13,"body":"right? The it was it was"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":985.13,"endTime":987.47,"body":"centered around the idea that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":985.13,"endTime":987.47,"body":"the pictures of Jesus when he's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":987.5,"endTime":990.5,"body":"angry are the ones that I love"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":987.5,"endTime":990.5,"body":"the most. If he's like, hugging"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":990.5,"endTime":994.1,"body":"people, I hate it. If he looks"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":990.5,"endTime":994.1,"body":"nice and happy and smiley, not"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":994.1,"endTime":996.95,"body":"for me. That's not my Jesus."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":994.1,"endTime":996.95,"body":"Mine is the one who started"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":996.95,"endTime":999.74,"body":"condemning, right? But he kind"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":996.95,"endTime":999.74,"body":"of just sit and sort of like"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":999.74,"endTime":1002.95,"body":"talked through that and it"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":999.74,"endTime":1002.95,"body":"showed me kind of that I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1002.95,"endTime":1007.18,"body":"believing even in Christ the way"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1002.95,"endTime":1007.18,"body":"that I, I say I was believing."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1007.3,"endTime":1010.18,"body":"Yeah. So something you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1007.3,"endTime":1010.18,"body":"said earlier about everyone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1010.18,"endTime":1012.19,"body":"sitting in that room, looking at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1010.18,"endTime":1012.19,"body":"their shoes kind of being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1012.76,"endTime":1017.05,"body":"embarrassed--that was definitely"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1012.76,"endTime":1017.05,"body":"my experience initially. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1017.05,"endTime":1020.17,"body":"really felt a lot of shame that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1017.05,"endTime":1020.17,"body":"I needed therapy, I felt"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1020.2,"endTime":1023.05,"body":"embarrassed, that I couldn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1020.2,"endTime":1023.05,"body":"handle things on my own."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1023.56,"endTime":1026.32,"body":"Something that really helped me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1023.56,"endTime":1026.32,"body":"was kind of normalizing the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1026.32,"endTime":1030.55,"body":"experience of going to therapy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1026.32,"endTime":1030.55,"body":"And kind of casually mentioning"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1030.55,"endTime":1033.94,"body":"it to someone without it being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1030.55,"endTime":1033.94,"body":"like this big deal that I had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1033.94,"endTime":1037.06,"body":"kind of built it up to be. Along"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1033.94,"endTime":1037.06,"body":"with that, I remember one time I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1037.06,"endTime":1041.44,"body":"walked in, I walked into the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1037.06,"endTime":1041.44,"body":"room. It's funny that we all had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1041.44,"endTime":1044.02,"body":"therapy experiences in the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1041.44,"endTime":1044.02,"body":"space...."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1044.95,"endTime":1046.54,"body":"In the bowels of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1044.95,"endTime":1046.54,"body":"Wilkinson Center?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1048.07,"endTime":1051.31,"body":"But I walked in there,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1048.07,"endTime":1051.31,"body":"and there's a window and I saw"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1052.48,"endTime":1056.08,"body":"an ex-girlfriend that was that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1052.48,"endTime":1056.08,"body":"was waiting in line to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1056.08,"endTime":1058.93,"body":"called. And I was like, \"I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1056.08,"endTime":1058.93,"body":"cannot go in there.\" Because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1058.93,"endTime":1062.38,"body":"like I was there. Because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1058.93,"endTime":1062.38,"body":"Because you know, I'd broken up"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1062.38,"endTime":1065.11,"body":"with her. I was like, \"I'm gay.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1062.38,"endTime":1065.11,"body":"And I was freaking out. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1065.11,"endTime":1067.63,"body":"like, in a lot of ways, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1065.11,"endTime":1067.63,"body":"don't--I can't say she was the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1067.63,"endTime":1069.73,"body":"catalyst for that--but it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1067.63,"endTime":1069.73,"body":"just something that was like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1069.73,"endTime":1072.4,"body":"hadn't worked through. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1069.73,"endTime":1072.4,"body":"like, \"I cannot let her see me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1072.4,"endTime":1074.23,"body":"here because she's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1072.4,"endTime":1074.23,"body":"like, Oh, what is he doing?\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1074.23,"endTime":1077.77,"body":"Like, \"I wonder, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1074.23,"endTime":1077.77,"body":"what's his deal?\" And then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1077.77,"endTime":1080.59,"body":"started walking away. And then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1077.77,"endTime":1080.59,"body":"like, stopped myself. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1080.59,"endTime":1083.95,"body":"like, \"You know what, I am so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1080.59,"endTime":1083.95,"body":"proud that she's here. I have no"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1083.95,"endTime":1087.04,"body":"idea what she's going through."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1083.95,"endTime":1087.04,"body":"But I'm so glad that she's here."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1087.19,"endTime":1090.97,"body":"And I'm proud that I'm here too."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1087.19,"endTime":1090.97,"body":"Because I recognize that there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1090.97,"endTime":1094.42,"body":"something I can't do. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1090.97,"endTime":1094.42,"body":"trying to better myself and make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1094.66,"endTime":1100.09,"body":"me become better,\" you know? And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1094.66,"endTime":1100.09,"body":"that moment, probably that day"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1100.09,"endTime":1104.35,"body":"was even more--I learned more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1100.09,"endTime":1104.35,"body":"from that than actually going to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1104.35,"endTime":1106.81,"body":"that therapy session because it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1104.35,"endTime":1106.81,"body":"helped me normalize the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1106.81,"endTime":1110.56,"body":"experience and be proud that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1106.81,"endTime":1110.56,"body":"was, I guess humble enough or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1110.56,"endTime":1114.61,"body":"willing to to do something that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1110.56,"endTime":1114.61,"body":"I still kind of felt was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1114.73,"endTime":1115.45,"body":"shameful."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1116.14,"endTime":1118.27,"body":"And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1116.14,"endTime":1118.27,"body":"where we can really learn from"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1118.27,"endTime":1121.54,"body":"our discomfort. So you sat there"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1118.27,"endTime":1121.54,"body":"in that uncomfortable place"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1121.54,"endTime":1124.36,"body":"waiting outside the doors that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1121.54,"endTime":1124.36,"body":"we've all been standing outside"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1124.36,"endTime":1127.12,"body":"those doors thinking, \"No, no,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1124.36,"endTime":1127.12,"body":"no,\" right? What's what's gonna"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1127.12,"endTime":1130.21,"body":"push me in, and you sat in that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1127.12,"endTime":1130.21,"body":"discomfort, and the discomfort"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1130.21,"endTime":1133.9,"body":"taught you something? Like why"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1130.21,"endTime":1133.9,"body":"am I uncomfortable? Why? What's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1133.9,"endTime":1136.66,"body":"the big deal here? And then by"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1133.9,"endTime":1136.66,"body":"doing that by kind of what we"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1136.66,"endTime":1139.69,"body":"call it \"opposite action\" when"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1136.66,"endTime":1139.69,"body":"you're uncomfortable, so you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1139.69,"endTime":1142.33,"body":"want to pull away but if you do"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1139.69,"endTime":1142.33,"body":"opposite action and lean into"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1142.33,"endTime":1144.82,"body":"it, right? You lean into that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1142.33,"endTime":1144.82,"body":"discomfort, it can teach you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1144.82,"endTime":1149.74,"body":"something? Like why do I feel"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1144.82,"endTime":1149.74,"body":"ashamed? Why am I am I nervous"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1149.74,"endTime":1153.25,"body":"about her being in here and me"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1149.74,"endTime":1153.25,"body":"being here? This is great. Now"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1153.25,"endTime":1155.71,"body":"that I think about it what"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1153.25,"endTime":1155.71,"body":"uh--and I think that's what you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1155.71,"endTime":1159.37,"body":"can do in a treatment setting."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1155.71,"endTime":1159.37,"body":"That's really unique. I think,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1159.94,"endTime":1162.13,"body":"even just like the waiting room,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1159.94,"endTime":1162.13,"body":"there's a lot of a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1162.13,"endTime":1164.59,"body":"therapy that happens in the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1162.13,"endTime":1164.59,"body":"waiting room just being there."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1164.9,"endTime":1167.78,"body":"What would you say to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1164.9,"endTime":1167.78,"body":"someone who is feeling that,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1168.23,"endTime":1172.31,"body":"that anxiety about going that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1168.23,"endTime":1172.31,"body":"discomfort and doesn't know how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1172.31,"endTime":1173.81,"body":"to push through the discomfort?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1174.77,"endTime":1176.51,"body":"Well, that's where it"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1174.77,"endTime":1176.51,"body":"can be helpful to have someone"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1176.51,"endTime":1180.05,"body":"to talk to about that. Right? So"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1176.51,"endTime":1180.05,"body":"we had to kind of understand"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1180.05,"endTime":1183.83,"body":"again, that mood is is there is"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1180.05,"endTime":1183.83,"body":"designed to kind of teach us and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1183.83,"endTime":1186.92,"body":"motivate us, right? To to give"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1183.83,"endTime":1186.92,"body":"us instruction so we have to be"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1186.92,"endTime":1189.17,"body":"able to sit with it. But there"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1186.92,"endTime":1189.17,"body":"are some moods when they get"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1189.17,"endTime":1193.04,"body":"really severe that it's hard to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1189.17,"endTime":1193.04,"body":"do that. For some people until"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1193.04,"endTime":1194.87,"body":"you can kind of sit and learn"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1193.04,"endTime":1194.87,"body":"from it, you have to be able to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1194.87,"endTime":1198.2,"body":"kind of pull back a little bit"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1194.87,"endTime":1198.2,"body":"from that mood. So in a moment"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1198.2,"endTime":1200.6,"body":"that you're having an extreme"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1198.2,"endTime":1200.6,"body":"like a panic panic attack, for"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1200.6,"endTime":1204.2,"body":"example, that's an, that's an"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1200.6,"endTime":1204.2,"body":"anxiety situation that's pushed"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1204.2,"endTime":1206.51,"body":"really far out, you're not going"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1204.2,"endTime":1206.51,"body":"to learn a lot of good"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1206.51,"endTime":1209.84,"body":"information in the midst of a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1206.51,"endTime":1209.84,"body":"panic attack. So sometimes, if"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1209.84,"endTime":1212.21,"body":"you can't learn from it, just to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1209.84,"endTime":1212.21,"body":"kind of sit there and ride the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1212.21,"endTime":1215.12,"body":"wave, right? And if you can kind"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1212.21,"endTime":1215.12,"body":"of ride the wave and ride it"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1215.12,"endTime":1218.12,"body":"out, you're not going to panic"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1215.12,"endTime":1218.12,"body":"to death. Like no one that I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1218.12,"endTime":1220.91,"body":"know he's ever felt themselves"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1218.12,"endTime":1220.91,"body":"to death, it doesn't keep going"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1220.91,"endTime":1224.69,"body":"up and up until your heart blows"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1220.91,"endTime":1224.69,"body":"up. At some point, it evens out,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1224.78,"endTime":1228.26,"body":"and it comes back down. So in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1224.78,"endTime":1228.26,"body":"those moments that the mood is"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1228.26,"endTime":1231.44,"body":"very extreme, if you are in a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1228.26,"endTime":1231.44,"body":"very severe depressive episode,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1231.56,"endTime":1233.66,"body":"you're not going to learn"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1231.56,"endTime":1233.66,"body":"anything good about yourself in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1233.66,"endTime":1238.04,"body":"that place. Right? But kind of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1233.66,"endTime":1238.04,"body":"learning how to ride the wave to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1238.04,"endTime":1241.49,"body":"get back out of it. That's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1238.04,"endTime":1241.49,"body":"that's the critical piece."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1242.24,"endTime":1245.03,"body":"There's there's this"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1242.24,"endTime":1245.03,"body":"misconception that if you are in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1245.03,"endTime":1248.51,"body":"our space of gay and Mormon,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1245.03,"endTime":1248.51,"body":"you're definitely going to be"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1248.51,"endTime":1251.27,"body":"mentally ill somehow that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1248.51,"endTime":1251.27,"body":"that's, that that's part of it."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1251.27,"endTime":1253.22,"body":"Right? And I think it's good to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1251.27,"endTime":1253.22,"body":"understand that that's not the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1253.22,"endTime":1256.28,"body":"case, we shouldn't presume"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1253.22,"endTime":1256.28,"body":"mental illness where there isn't"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1256.28,"endTime":1259.82,"body":"one. I've been having this"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1256.28,"endTime":1259.82,"body":"discussion a lot over"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1259.82,"endTime":1263.03,"body":"transgender service in the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1259.82,"endTime":1263.03,"body":"military--people believe in that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1263.03,"endTime":1266.9,"body":"if you are transgender by"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1263.03,"endTime":1266.9,"body":"itself, you are mentally ill."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1267.38,"endTime":1271.88,"body":"And that's not the case. While"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1267.38,"endTime":1271.88,"body":"there are rates that are higher"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1271.88,"endTime":1275.96,"body":"than than cisgender individuals,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1271.88,"endTime":1275.96,"body":"it's not to say that if you are"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1275.96,"endTime":1280.46,"body":"here, then you have a mental"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1275.96,"endTime":1280.46,"body":"health problem. Being gay is not"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1280.55,"endTime":1284.09,"body":"a mental health related problem."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1280.55,"endTime":1284.09,"body":"Even though we do know that in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1284.09,"endTime":1287.33,"body":"the LGBT community, there are"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1284.09,"endTime":1287.33,"body":"higher rates of mental illness"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1287.33,"endTime":1293.21,"body":"than in within the straight"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1287.33,"endTime":1293.21,"body":"population. Right? So it may not"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1293.21,"endTime":1296.69,"body":"be for everyone to go do, but I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1293.21,"endTime":1296.69,"body":"think for those who need it, and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1296.69,"endTime":1300.44,"body":"have the the the means to be"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1296.69,"endTime":1300.44,"body":"able to access it, go and do it,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1300.44,"endTime":1303.11,"body":"learn something about yourself"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1300.44,"endTime":1303.11,"body":"that you didn't learn that you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1303.11,"endTime":1304.34,"body":"didn't know before. Right?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1305.119,"endTime":1307.519,"body":"So Jeff, let's say there's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1305.119,"endTime":1307.519,"body":"someone listening to this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1307.519,"endTime":1311.629,"body":"podcast, who is coming to terms"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1307.519,"endTime":1311.629,"body":"with their sexual orientation or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1311.629,"endTime":1313.879,"body":"gender identity, and they're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1311.629,"endTime":1313.879,"body":"thinking, should I go to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1313.879,"endTime":1316.579,"body":"therapy? What would be some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1313.879,"endTime":1316.579,"body":"indicators that you would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1316.579,"endTime":1317.539,"body":"encourage them to go?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1319.04,"endTime":1321.02,"body":"Well, I would ask"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1319.04,"endTime":1321.02,"body":"them, What is what it is they"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1321.02,"endTime":1323.78,"body":"are hoping to get out of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1321.02,"endTime":1323.78,"body":"therapy? Right? Are you? Are you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1323.78,"endTime":1328.25,"body":"hoping to resolve conflict? In"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1323.78,"endTime":1328.25,"body":"which case that's a great place"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1328.25,"endTime":1334.04,"body":"to go to therapy. Are they"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1328.25,"endTime":1334.04,"body":"hoping to reinforce ideas or"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1334.04,"endTime":1336.41,"body":"beliefs that are not helpful?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1334.04,"endTime":1336.41,"body":"That's not a good reason to go"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1336.41,"endTime":1341.72,"body":"to therapy. Right? I think"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1336.41,"endTime":1341.72,"body":"indicators could be just if your"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1341.72,"endTime":1344.09,"body":"mood again, if you experienced"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1341.72,"endTime":1344.09,"body":"mood on a level that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1344.09,"endTime":1348.44,"body":"outside the normal range, or if"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1344.09,"endTime":1348.44,"body":"you have relationship problems."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1348.44,"endTime":1352.82,"body":"So people who, for a number, a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1348.44,"endTime":1352.82,"body":"number of individuals, their"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1352.82,"endTime":1355.37,"body":"psychological problems could"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1352.82,"endTime":1355.37,"body":"lead to dysfunctional"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1355.37,"endTime":1359.24,"body":"relationships. So if they're in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1355.37,"endTime":1359.24,"body":"bad relationship after another"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1359.24,"endTime":1361.61,"body":"after another, that's a good"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1359.24,"endTime":1361.61,"body":"sign that you might need to go"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1361.97,"endTime":1364.76,"body":"get some help. Because either"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1361.97,"endTime":1364.76,"body":"you're choosing unhealthy"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1364.76,"endTime":1368.57,"body":"partners, or you might be"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1364.76,"endTime":1368.57,"body":"unhealthy yourself, right? If"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1368.57,"endTime":1371.9,"body":"you're working in a job that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1368.57,"endTime":1371.9,"body":"you're not functional at, where"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1372.02,"endTime":1374.57,"body":"you're not able to kind of take"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1372.02,"endTime":1374.57,"body":"care of, of tasks that you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1374.57,"endTime":1377.48,"body":"really ought to be able to take"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1374.57,"endTime":1377.48,"body":"care of based on your training"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1377.48,"endTime":1380.36,"body":"or education. These are good"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1377.48,"endTime":1380.36,"body":"things you can go get help with,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1380.39,"endTime":1383.99,"body":"to kind of get back on on the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1380.39,"endTime":1383.99,"body":"path. And and sometimes, like I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1383.99,"endTime":1387.89,"body":"said, most people experience"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1383.99,"endTime":1387.89,"body":"resiliency after a trauma or"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1387.89,"endTime":1390.53,"body":"after a hard event. So not"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1387.89,"endTime":1390.53,"body":"everyone who's gone through"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1390.53,"endTime":1393.74,"body":"trauma even needs to go to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1390.53,"endTime":1393.74,"body":"therapy. There's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1393.74,"endTime":1396.89,"body":"resilience that's kind of out"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1393.74,"endTime":1396.89,"body":"there. But there are a number of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1396.89,"endTime":1400.19,"body":"people who, after trauma, do you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1396.89,"endTime":1400.19,"body":"need to kind of get get some"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1400.19,"endTime":1402.11,"body":"help to kind of talk through it."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1400.19,"endTime":1402.11,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1402.2,"endTime":1404.54,"body":"Do you think that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1402.2,"endTime":1404.54,"body":"resilience and the need to go to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1404.54,"endTime":1407.09,"body":"therapy can sometimes live in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1404.54,"endTime":1407.09,"body":"the same space?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1407.72,"endTime":1411.23,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. So"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1407.72,"endTime":1411.23,"body":"with within the resiliency"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1411.23,"endTime":1413.96,"body":"literature, you can have"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1411.23,"endTime":1413.96,"body":"resiliency, and you can also"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1413.96,"endTime":1416.24,"body":"have mental illness, you're"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1413.96,"endTime":1416.24,"body":"going to have both at the same"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1416.24,"endTime":1420.2,"body":"time. Another component of that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1416.24,"endTime":1420.2,"body":"is post traumatic growth, that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1420.2,"endTime":1424.16,"body":"after trauma there is a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1420.2,"endTime":1424.16,"body":"people experience a period of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1424.16,"endTime":1428.15,"body":"growth. They looked at this with"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1424.16,"endTime":1428.15,"body":"with some Vietnam vets that had"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1428.15,"endTime":1431.18,"body":"been housed in the Hanoi Hilton,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1428.15,"endTime":1431.18,"body":"right? They were tortured for"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1431.18,"endTime":1435.35,"body":"years. They went back and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1431.18,"endTime":1435.35,"body":"surveyed these individuals in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1435.35,"endTime":1438.83,"body":"the mid 80s. So they've been out"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1435.35,"endTime":1438.83,"body":"for about 10 years, looking for"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1438.83,"endTime":1442.19,"body":"PTSD. And of course, they found"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1438.83,"endTime":1442.19,"body":"it. But they also had indices of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1442.19,"endTime":1445.43,"body":"growth that they were surprised"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1442.19,"endTime":1445.43,"body":"to find that people were saying,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1445.67,"endTime":1448.37,"body":"\"Yeah, the grass is a lot"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1445.67,"endTime":1448.37,"body":"greener now. My wife's cooking"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1448.37,"endTime":1451.04,"body":"is a lot better. I really"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1448.37,"endTime":1451.04,"body":"appreciate time with my kids"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1451.04,"endTime":1453.95,"body":"more.\" And there were indices of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1451.04,"endTime":1453.95,"body":"growth that occurred"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1453.95,"endTime":1458.33,"body":"simultaneously with indices of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1453.95,"endTime":1458.33,"body":"disorder of post traumatic"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1458.33,"endTime":1461.96,"body":"stress disorder. So you can have"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1458.33,"endTime":1461.96,"body":"resiliency and also be"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1461.96,"endTime":1466.01,"body":"struggling look at Frodo at the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1461.96,"endTime":1466.01,"body":"end of his journey. Right? He"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1466.01,"endTime":1468.53,"body":"was a stronger, better person,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1466.01,"endTime":1468.53,"body":"but there are still parts of him"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1468.53,"endTime":1471.05,"body":"that were hurting, that were"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1468.53,"endTime":1471.05,"body":"still sore that he had to work"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1471.05,"endTime":1475.28,"body":"through. Well, and then float"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1471.05,"endTime":1475.28,"body":"off on a boat with the elves."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1476.78,"endTime":1477.68,"body":"Spoiler alert,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1477.69,"endTime":1478.41,"body":"Sorry."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1479.47,"endTime":1481.72,"body":"One thing I want to add"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1479.47,"endTime":1481.72,"body":"about my experience is that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1481.72,"endTime":1484.3,"body":"did not stay with the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1481.72,"endTime":1484.3,"body":"therapist the whole time. In"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1484.3,"endTime":1488.08,"body":"fact, after I think it was two"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1484.3,"endTime":1488.08,"body":"sessions, I switched therapists"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1488.29,"endTime":1491.29,"body":"because I just wasn't sure if it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1488.29,"endTime":1491.29,"body":"would be the best fit. And it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1491.29,"endTime":1495.85,"body":"turned out that the next one was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1491.29,"endTime":1495.85,"body":"an incredible fit. And I kept"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1495.85,"endTime":1499.12,"body":"using him for a really long time"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1495.85,"endTime":1499.12,"body":"and still do. As you're as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1499.12,"endTime":1501.85,"body":"you're trying to find what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1499.12,"endTime":1501.85,"body":"you're looking for, I think,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1502.06,"endTime":1505.33,"body":"like giving myself that leeway"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1502.06,"endTime":1505.33,"body":"to like, really understand the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1505.33,"endTime":1507.73,"body":"kind of like dynamic I wanted"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1505.33,"endTime":1507.73,"body":"with my therapist was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1507.73,"endTime":1511.84,"body":"important. And you you may not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1507.73,"endTime":1511.84,"body":"get it right exactly the first"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1511.84,"endTime":1512.23,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1512.45,"endTime":1514.1,"body":"Well, that's and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1512.45,"endTime":1514.1,"body":"that's a good topic because I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1514.1,"endTime":1516.41,"body":"think it's important to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1514.1,"endTime":1516.41,"body":"recognize that we're going to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1516.41,"endTime":1520.22,"body":"have an interpersonal experience"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1516.41,"endTime":1520.22,"body":"in therapy. And to have that we"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1520.22,"endTime":1522.44,"body":"have to have a good"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1520.22,"endTime":1522.44,"body":"interpersonal connection. And"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1522.44,"endTime":1526.04,"body":"not everybody is for every every"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1522.44,"endTime":1526.04,"body":"client. So your connection with"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1526.04,"endTime":1529.43,"body":"your therapist is actually a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1526.04,"endTime":1529.43,"body":"really big deal. It accounts for"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1529.52,"endTime":1532.34,"body":"about a third of all the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1529.52,"endTime":1532.34,"body":"variants in your ability to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1532.34,"endTime":1535.25,"body":"change in the process of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1532.34,"endTime":1535.25,"body":"therapy, right? Yeah, as a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1535.25,"endTime":1538.22,"body":"client, you bring a lot of stuff"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1535.25,"endTime":1538.22,"body":"into the room, that's going to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1538.22,"endTime":1542.36,"body":"impact how you're able to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1538.22,"endTime":1542.36,"body":"change. And but a big part of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1542.36,"endTime":1544.85,"body":"that is that therapeutic"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1542.36,"endTime":1544.85,"body":"relationship and as a therapist,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1544.85,"endTime":1547.88,"body":"that's, that's my biggest tool"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1544.85,"endTime":1547.88,"body":"is the relationship that I"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1547.88,"endTime":1552.17,"body":"formed with that person, so that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1547.88,"endTime":1552.17,"body":"that relationship is a big deal."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1552.17,"endTime":1554.9,"body":"And I think it is a good idea to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1552.17,"endTime":1554.9,"body":"look for a therapist that kind"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1554.9,"endTime":1560.06,"body":"of matches, maybe what your"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1554.9,"endTime":1560.06,"body":"needs are, or clicks on some"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1560.06,"endTime":1562.64,"body":"level, they may challenge you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1560.06,"endTime":1562.64,"body":"and push you by being a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1562.64,"endTime":1566.09,"body":"different person than you think"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1562.64,"endTime":1566.09,"body":"you need. So there's not a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1566.09,"endTime":1569.06,"body":"really good formula for how to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1566.09,"endTime":1569.06,"body":"pick the right therapist. But it"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1569.06,"endTime":1571.16,"body":"is important to have one that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1569.06,"endTime":1571.16,"body":"you can form a relationship"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1571.16,"endTime":1571.43,"body":"with."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1571.46,"endTime":1574.22,"body":"Well, if you don't know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1571.46,"endTime":1574.22,"body":"what your needs are, are there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1574.22,"endTime":1576.92,"body":"any ways? Because like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1574.22,"endTime":1576.92,"body":"remember going in, I would take"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1576.92,"endTime":1579.74,"body":"like an initial survey of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1576.92,"endTime":1579.74,"body":"what I was feeling and like what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1579.74,"endTime":1584.06,"body":"I was looking for. Are there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1579.74,"endTime":1584.06,"body":"standardized, things like that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1584.06,"endTime":1585.32,"body":"in a therapy world? Or no?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1585.81,"endTime":1588.57,"body":"For some cases? Yes."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1585.81,"endTime":1588.57,"body":"So in some situations, there are"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1588.57,"endTime":1592.08,"body":"therapists that are trained"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1588.57,"endTime":1592.08,"body":"specifically for childhood"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1592.08,"endTime":1596.07,"body":"trauma, or specifically trained"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1592.08,"endTime":1596.07,"body":"in dialectical behavior therapy"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1596.07,"endTime":1599.28,"body":"for borderline personality, or"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1596.07,"endTime":1599.28,"body":"suicidality, right? There are"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1599.28,"endTime":1602.16,"body":"therapists that do have"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1599.28,"endTime":1602.16,"body":"specialty areas. And so if that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1602.19,"endTime":1606.0,"body":"is you, then please go find a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1602.19,"endTime":1606.0,"body":"specialist that can treat a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1606.0,"endTime":1609.45,"body":"specialized condition."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1606.0,"endTime":1609.45,"body":"Otherwise, therapists in general"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1609.45,"endTime":1612.93,"body":"can treat kind of whatever walks"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1609.45,"endTime":1612.93,"body":"in the room. So when you fill"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1612.93,"endTime":1615.15,"body":"out that little survey of what"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1612.93,"endTime":1615.15,"body":"you're kind of looking for,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1615.51,"endTime":1618.03,"body":"unless it's really remarkable,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1615.51,"endTime":1618.03,"body":"or one of these specialized"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1618.03,"endTime":1621.33,"body":"things, like an eating disorder,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1618.03,"endTime":1621.33,"body":"does better with a specific"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1621.36,"endTime":1626.73,"body":"eating disorder kind of clinic,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1621.36,"endTime":1626.73,"body":"right? Otherwise, it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1626.73,"endTime":1628.71,"body":"just how you feel in the room"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1626.73,"endTime":1628.71,"body":"with that person, can you be"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1628.71,"endTime":1632.94,"body":"vulnerable? Can I let my guard"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1628.71,"endTime":1632.94,"body":"down? Can I really make myself"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1632.94,"endTime":1636.93,"body":"available to myself and to this"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1632.94,"endTime":1636.93,"body":"other person? Or are my guards"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1636.93,"endTime":1639.45,"body":"up? And I'm just not, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1636.93,"endTime":1639.45,"body":"not going to feel that way."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1639.75,"endTime":1642.45,"body":"Yeah, so shop around, in fact,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1639.75,"endTime":1642.45,"body":"some people say go to three"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1642.45,"endTime":1646.02,"body":"therapists, do one session with"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1642.45,"endTime":1646.02,"body":"each therapist, and see which"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1646.02,"endTime":1649.59,"body":"jives the best--where you feel"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1646.02,"endTime":1649.59,"body":"the most comfortable. And they"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1649.59,"endTime":1652.17,"body":"may challenge you so it may not"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1649.59,"endTime":1652.17,"body":"be comfortable, but if you can"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1652.17,"endTime":1654.33,"body":"kind of learn from that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1652.17,"endTime":1654.33,"body":"discomfort, that's fine, too."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1654.39,"endTime":1655.41,"body":"That's beautiful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1654.39,"endTime":1655.41,"body":"advice."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1655.44,"endTime":1657.15,"body":"You know, a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1655.44,"endTime":1657.15,"body":"when they ask me, you know, who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1657.15,"endTime":1658.65,"body":"is a good therapist? Who can you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1657.15,"endTime":1658.65,"body":"recommend? Because..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1658.65,"endTime":1659.52,"body":"He's like...me!"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1659.55,"endTime":1662.01,"body":"Because I know, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1659.55,"endTime":1662.01,"body":"therapist. And I, of course, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1662.01,"endTime":1662.52,"body":"know everything."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1662.64,"endTime":1663.99,"body":"That's funny, because"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1662.64,"endTime":1663.99,"body":"I'm like, \"Not me.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1664.59,"endTime":1665.07,"body":"Ben Schilaty"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1665.54,"endTime":1668.6,"body":"I'm so busy. I don't want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1665.54,"endTime":1668.6,"body":"any more. I definitely wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1668.6,"endTime":1670.97,"body":"recommend myself to a friend. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1668.6,"endTime":1670.97,"body":"think that'd be unethical."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1671.27,"endTime":1674.9,"body":"Anyway. But I would I just say,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1671.27,"endTime":1674.9,"body":"who does your insurance cover?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1675.38,"endTime":1675.98,"body":"You know..."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1676.04,"endTime":1678.5,"body":"Start there, because"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1676.04,"endTime":1678.5,"body":"it is a financial decision."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1678.56,"endTime":1682.55,"body":"Yep. And, and therapists"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1678.56,"endTime":1682.55,"body":"are all trained and licensed."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1682.55,"endTime":1686.54,"body":"And you can find a great person"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1682.55,"endTime":1686.54,"body":"based that youre your insurance"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1686.54,"endTime":1686.99,"body":"covers."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1687.26,"endTime":1689.39,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1687.26,"endTime":1689.39,"body":"important. And look for cultural"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1689.39,"endTime":1691.7,"body":"competence. So if you're in the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1689.39,"endTime":1691.7,"body":"minority group, whatever"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1691.7,"endTime":1695.0,"body":"minority that is, it can be"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1691.7,"endTime":1695.0,"body":"useful to find someone who has a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1695.0,"endTime":1699.83,"body":"competence in that cultural"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1695.0,"endTime":1699.83,"body":"background at least. And I will"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1699.83,"endTime":1703.25,"body":"say this--so and this kind of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1699.83,"endTime":1703.25,"body":"exists again, on when when mood"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1703.25,"endTime":1706.13,"body":"gets big, if you're having"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1703.25,"endTime":1706.13,"body":"thoughts of suicide, or if"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1706.13,"endTime":1710.81,"body":"you're thinking about ending"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1706.13,"endTime":1710.81,"body":"your life, or that that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1710.81,"endTime":1715.07,"body":"self-hate rises so much, please"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1710.81,"endTime":1715.07,"body":"get help. And, and in those"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1715.07,"endTime":1717.86,"body":"emergency situations where it"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1715.07,"endTime":1717.86,"body":"becomes a matter of life or"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1717.86,"endTime":1722.51,"body":"death, the emergency rooms will"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1717.86,"endTime":1722.51,"body":"take you in. They have mental"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1722.51,"endTime":1725.45,"body":"health workers on call, they"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1722.51,"endTime":1725.45,"body":"have people that will be there."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1726.11,"endTime":1729.02,"body":"My boss has done that job a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1726.11,"endTime":1729.02,"body":"couple times. I know friends"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1729.02,"endTime":1734.09,"body":"that have worked on call for"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1729.02,"endTime":1734.09,"body":"ERs, please go get help. Because"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1734.09,"endTime":1738.65,"body":"you're in a place where it does"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1734.09,"endTime":1738.65,"body":"become life or death--how we can"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1738.65,"endTime":1741.44,"body":"talk a whole episode maybe about"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1738.65,"endTime":1741.44,"body":"suicide sometime. But just to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1741.44,"endTime":1745.07,"body":"kind of say that people that are"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1741.44,"endTime":1745.07,"body":"pushed there are pushed there,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1745.07,"endTime":1749.75,"body":"usually by temporary stressors"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1745.07,"endTime":1749.75,"body":"that can be resolved. Please get"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1749.75,"endTime":1753.68,"body":"help. Whatever that looks like,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1749.75,"endTime":1753.68,"body":"but like I said, even if it's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1753.68,"endTime":1757.25,"body":"just going to the ER, there's a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1753.68,"endTime":1757.25,"body":"great app called \"Safe UT,\""},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1757.64,"endTime":1761.51,"body":"where you can chat with a crisis"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1757.64,"endTime":1761.51,"body":"worker and maybe get help that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1761.51,"endTime":1763.49,"body":"direction if you don't--if"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1761.51,"endTime":1763.49,"body":"you're not comfortable going"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1763.49,"endTime":1767.15,"body":"into an ER. But there are some"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1763.49,"endTime":1767.15,"body":"good there are really good good"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1767.15,"endTime":1770.45,"body":"resources out there. For LGBT"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1767.15,"endTime":1770.45,"body":"brothers and sisters, go to the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1770.45,"endTime":1773.36,"body":"Pride Center in Salt Lake. They"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1770.45,"endTime":1773.36,"body":"have a whole bevy of mental"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1773.36,"endTime":1778.07,"body":"health resources available."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1773.36,"endTime":1778.07,"body":"They're located on Main Street"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1778.07,"endTime":1781.58,"body":"near 13th East--so just just"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1778.07,"endTime":1781.58,"body":"right by the the baseball"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1781.58,"endTime":1785.21,"body":"stadium. So baseball is a sport"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1781.58,"endTime":1785.21,"body":"that straight people play. But"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1785.27,"endTime":1792.26,"body":"it's it's close to the the Bee's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1785.27,"endTime":1792.26,"body":"ballpark. And it's a great"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1792.26,"endTime":1794.75,"body":"resource, there are there are"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1792.26,"endTime":1794.75,"body":"plenty people that can help the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1796.01,"endTime":1799.28,"body":"the Encircle House has access"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1796.01,"endTime":1799.28,"body":"and can get you to resources for"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1799.28,"endTime":1802.61,"body":"mental health as well. So there"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1799.28,"endTime":1802.61,"body":"are places to go. So please, if"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1802.61,"endTime":1805.04,"body":"you're in that group that's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1802.61,"endTime":1805.04,"body":"thinking of ending your life,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1805.04,"endTime":1805.73,"body":"please get help."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1806.059,"endTime":1807.919,"body":"All right, Jeff, thank you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1806.059,"endTime":1807.919,"body":"so much for joining us today and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1807.919,"endTime":1811.879,"body":"for your expertise and your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1807.919,"endTime":1811.879,"body":"personal story. And just for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1811.879,"endTime":1813.559,"body":"being a fun person to talk to."},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1813.74,"endTime":1815.87,"body":"I have thoroughly"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1813.74,"endTime":1815.87,"body":"enjoyed it. You guys keep doing"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1815.87,"endTime":1818.36,"body":"this great work that you're"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1815.87,"endTime":1818.36,"body":"doing because it's really"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1818.36,"endTime":1818.96,"body":"important."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1819.23,"endTime":1821.0,"body":"Thank you. I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1819.23,"endTime":1821.0,"body":"complimenting you so that you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1821.0,"endTime":1821.84,"body":"would compliment me back!"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1822.11,"endTime":1823.37,"body":"Naturally. That's how"},{"speaker":"Jeff Case","startTime":1822.11,"endTime":1823.37,"body":"we do it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1824.06,"endTime":1825.32,"body":"All right, I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1824.06,"endTime":1825.32,"body":"we're done here."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1826.64,"endTime":1828.5,"body":"Thank you for joining us"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1826.64,"endTime":1828.5,"body":"today. And please remember that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1828.5,"endTime":1830.54,"body":"we do not represent the Church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1828.5,"endTime":1830.54,"body":"of Jesus Christ of Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1830.54,"endTime":1832.91,"body":"Saints or Brigham Young"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1830.54,"endTime":1832.91,"body":"University. We're not trying to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1832.91,"endTime":1835.34,"body":"be prescriptive or tell anyone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1832.91,"endTime":1835.34,"body":"what to think or what to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.73,"endTime":1837.11,"body":"You heard three"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.73,"endTime":1837.11,"body":"perspectives, and there are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1837.11,"endTime":1839.87,"body":"many, many more. We encourage"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1837.11,"endTime":1839.87,"body":"you to listen to other voices"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1839.87,"endTime":1842.63,"body":"and hear a wide variety of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1839.87,"endTime":1842.63,"body":"experiences. If you would like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1842.63,"endTime":1845.3,"body":"to submit a question or share a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1842.63,"endTime":1845.3,"body":"comment about today's episode,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1845.36,"endTime":1848.57,"body":"you can email us at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1845.36,"endTime":1848.57,"body":"questionsfromthecloset@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1848.93,"endTime":1849.77,"body":"Until next time..."}]}