{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.549,"endTime":8.189,"body":"Welcome to questions from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.549,"endTime":8.189,"body":"the closet. I'm Ben Schilaty."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":8.51,"endTime":11.21,"body":"And I'm Charlie Bird."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":8.51,"endTime":11.21,"body":"Each episode we discussed a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.21,"endTime":13.82,"body":"question that we commonly get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.21,"endTime":13.82,"body":"asked as LGBTQ Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.82,"endTime":14.33,"body":"Saints."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":14.57,"endTime":16.52,"body":"We're not trying to answer"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":14.57,"endTime":16.52,"body":"this question or come to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":16.52,"endTime":18.86,"body":"consensus, but simply sharing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":16.52,"endTime":18.86,"body":"our perspectives."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":19.4,"endTime":22.28,"body":"Today's question is,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":19.4,"endTime":22.28,"body":"how can we talk about LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.28,"endTime":23.3,"body":"topics at church?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":23.78,"endTime":25.94,"body":"Charlie and I are not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":23.78,"endTime":25.94,"body":"terribly diverse, and we share"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":25.94,"endTime":28.55,"body":"many of the same life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":25.94,"endTime":28.55,"body":"experiences. For example, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":28.55,"endTime":31.4,"body":"both took \"Pottermore\" quizzes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":28.55,"endTime":31.4,"body":"and we're sorted into Hufflepuff"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":31.4,"endTime":31.85,"body":"house."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":32.069,"endTime":34.199,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":32.069,"endTime":34.199,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":34.199,"endTime":37.709,"body":"example, Ben is proud of being a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":34.199,"endTime":37.709,"body":"Hufflepuff. And I am completely"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":37.709,"endTime":38.519,"body":"ashamed of it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":38.54,"endTime":41.18,"body":"So I was actually ashamed"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":38.54,"endTime":41.18,"body":"to I took the quiz three times"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":41.18,"endTime":44.09,"body":"because I did not want to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":41.18,"endTime":44.09,"body":"Hufflepuff. But then I finally"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":44.09,"endTime":46.31,"body":"just leaned into it. Actually,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":44.09,"endTime":46.31,"body":"when I went to Harry Potter"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":46.31,"endTime":49.37,"body":"World, I learned that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":46.31,"endTime":49.37,"body":"Hufflepuffs are known for being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.37,"endTime":52.13,"body":"loyal. And I would love to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.37,"endTime":52.13,"body":"known for being loyal."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":52.16,"endTime":53.87,"body":"Which house did you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":52.16,"endTime":53.87,"body":"want to be sorted into?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":53.87,"endTime":56.6,"body":"Ravenclaw. Because they are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":53.87,"endTime":56.6,"body":"smart and witty, which is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":56.6,"endTime":57.62,"body":"everything I want to be,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":57.83,"endTime":60.56,"body":"I would have taken"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":57.83,"endTime":60.56,"body":"anything, like anything but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":60.56,"endTime":61.1,"body":"Hufflepuff."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":61.67,"endTime":63.74,"body":"Also, when there was the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":61.67,"endTime":63.74,"body":"Battle of Hogwarts, the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":63.74,"endTime":66.44,"body":"Gryffindors, and Hufflepuffs"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":63.74,"endTime":66.44,"body":"were the only houses where all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":66.44,"endTime":67.97,"body":"the students stayed to fight."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":66.44,"endTime":67.97,"body":"So..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":67.97,"endTime":70.49,"body":"It's true. I would have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":67.97,"endTime":70.49,"body":"made a great Slytherin."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":70.52,"endTime":71.57,"body":"You really would have."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":72.17,"endTime":74.69,"body":"So we would like to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":72.17,"endTime":74.69,"body":"provide a variety of voices and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":74.69,"endTime":77.36,"body":"perspectives on this show. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":74.69,"endTime":77.36,"body":"today, we're joined by Carl."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":77.69,"endTime":80.69,"body":"I'm glad to be here."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":77.69,"endTime":80.69,"body":"All right, my name is Carl Hull."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":80.78,"endTime":85.07,"body":"I live in Highland, Utah, where"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":80.78,"endTime":85.07,"body":"I've been for 21 years, and I've"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":85.07,"endTime":87.83,"body":"been serving as the Bishop of"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":85.07,"endTime":87.83,"body":"the Highland 19th Ward for"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":87.83,"endTime":92.15,"body":"almost the last five years. I'm"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":87.83,"endTime":92.15,"body":"the father of seven kids, the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":92.15,"endTime":97.28,"body":"grandfather of six, soon to be"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":92.15,"endTime":97.28,"body":"eight grandkids. And I would say"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":97.28,"endTime":102.2,"body":"life is good. When I was first"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":97.28,"endTime":102.2,"body":"called as Bishop back in--it"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":102.89,"endTime":108.44,"body":"would have been August of 2015."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":102.89,"endTime":108.44,"body":"It was really interesting, as I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":108.44,"endTime":113.03,"body":"was called, I had a really"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":108.44,"endTime":113.03,"body":"strong impression that I needed"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":113.03,"endTime":117.14,"body":"to make sure that everyone in"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":113.03,"endTime":117.14,"body":"our Ward felt loved and cared"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":117.14,"endTime":120.26,"body":"for, regardless of their"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":117.14,"endTime":120.26,"body":"circumstance. I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":120.26,"endTime":123.59,"body":"necessarily thinking of LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":120.26,"endTime":123.59,"body":"people. At that point, I was"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":123.59,"endTime":127.34,"body":"thinking of financial"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":123.59,"endTime":127.34,"body":"circumstance, questions about"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":127.34,"endTime":132.23,"body":"the gospel, people who were"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":127.34,"endTime":132.23,"body":"single, mothers who were single"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":132.23,"endTime":135.62,"body":"mothers, and some people who had"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":132.23,"endTime":135.62,"body":"never married and were well into"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":135.62,"endTime":138.5,"body":"their 40s and 50s. I was"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":135.62,"endTime":138.5,"body":"thinking about all of those"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":138.5,"endTime":143.72,"body":"people and thinking, \"How can we"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":138.5,"endTime":143.72,"body":"create a ward, where everyone"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":143.72,"endTime":146.93,"body":"feels like they belong here,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":143.72,"endTime":146.93,"body":"like there's a place for them?"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":146.93,"endTime":150.47,"body":"So nobody goes home on Sunday"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":146.93,"endTime":150.47,"body":"feeling unfulfilled, or"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":150.47,"endTime":155.27,"body":"unwanted.\" And so that was kind"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":150.47,"endTime":155.27,"body":"of a feeling I had at the very"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":155.27,"endTime":160.73,"body":"beginning. And I had been"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":155.27,"endTime":160.73,"body":"serving probably about four or"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":160.73,"endTime":165.29,"body":"five months, when I started to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":160.73,"endTime":165.29,"body":"feel like we need to have a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":165.29,"endTime":170.75,"body":"discussion as a ward about the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":165.29,"endTime":170.75,"body":"LGBTQ community. I think that's"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":170.75,"endTime":175.31,"body":"probably, well that was probably"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":170.75,"endTime":175.31,"body":"on my mind, because--as in a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":175.31,"endTime":178.73,"body":"previous calling, I was the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":175.31,"endTime":178.73,"body":"Young Men's President--and I had"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":178.73,"endTime":182.66,"body":"two young men that I served"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":178.73,"endTime":182.66,"body":"with--or that were in the priest"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":182.66,"endTime":186.02,"body":"quorum when I was young men's"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":182.66,"endTime":186.02,"body":"president--that went served"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":186.02,"endTime":188.9,"body":"missions, came home, and then"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":186.02,"endTime":188.9,"body":"came out as gay, and then"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":188.9,"endTime":192.68,"body":"subsequently left the church."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":188.9,"endTime":192.68,"body":"And, and that was really"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":192.68,"endTime":197.15,"body":"surprising to me. I had no clue,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":192.68,"endTime":197.15,"body":"no inclination before. And then"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":197.18,"endTime":201.77,"body":"it started me to thinking, \"Did"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":197.18,"endTime":201.77,"body":"I do something or say something"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":201.95,"endTime":206.45,"body":"that made them feel unwanted or"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":201.95,"endTime":206.45,"body":"uncomfortable?\" And I started to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":206.45,"endTime":210.11,"body":"think, \"If I had two when I was"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":206.45,"endTime":210.11,"body":"Young Men's President, there's"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":210.11,"endTime":215.84,"body":"probably two or three or four of"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":210.11,"endTime":215.84,"body":"my young men right now, who may"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":215.84,"endTime":219.5,"body":"be having those same exact"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":215.84,"endTime":219.5,"body":"questions. And there may be"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":219.56,"endTime":222.59,"body":"others in the ward, that I'm not"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":219.56,"endTime":222.59,"body":"even thinking about. And so I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":222.59,"endTime":225.2,"body":"started to think \"We need to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":222.59,"endTime":225.2,"body":"have this discussion in the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":225.2,"endTime":228.71,"body":"ward.\" So we had a discussion in"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":225.2,"endTime":228.71,"body":"the bishopric meeting, and I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":228.71,"endTime":233.9,"body":"brought it up and the bishopric"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":228.71,"endTime":233.9,"body":"was fairly, fairly open to the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":234.47,"endTime":239.78,"body":"idea--a few reservations. They"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":234.47,"endTime":239.78,"body":"were--that I had comments of,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":239.78,"endTime":241.58,"body":"\"Yeah, I think this would be a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":239.78,"endTime":241.58,"body":"good thing.\" And others, like,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":241.61,"endTime":244.73,"body":"\"You know, you're going to open"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":241.61,"endTime":244.73,"body":"up a can of worms with this.\" So"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":244.73,"endTime":246.98,"body":"we had a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":244.73,"endTime":246.98,"body":"discussion, but we came to a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":246.98,"endTime":249.83,"body":"conclusion as a bishopric, that"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":246.98,"endTime":249.83,"body":"we should move forward with"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":249.83,"endTime":254.81,"body":"this. And then we opened up the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":249.83,"endTime":254.81,"body":"idea to the Ward Council, which"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":254.81,"endTime":258.14,"body":"really created a lively debate."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":254.81,"endTime":258.14,"body":"There were members of the Ward"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":258.14,"endTime":263.12,"body":"Council, some who said, \"This is"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":258.14,"endTime":263.12,"body":"a huge mistake. You are--this is"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":263.12,"endTime":266.0,"body":"not what we're supposed to be"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":263.12,"endTime":266.0,"body":"doing as a Ward Council. This is"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":266.0,"endTime":268.31,"body":"not the direction we should be"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":266.0,"endTime":268.31,"body":"going. And we're just going to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":268.31,"endTime":272.72,"body":"have a problem with this.\" Other"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":268.31,"endTime":272.72,"body":"members were were very open to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":272.72,"endTime":275.75,"body":"it. In fact, one of them said,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":272.72,"endTime":275.75,"body":"\"It's about time, we had this"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":275.75,"endTime":280.34,"body":"discussion.\" So we had the full"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":275.75,"endTime":280.34,"body":"gamut of discussion. And then so"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":280.34,"endTime":283.52,"body":"we took all everyone's input in."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":280.34,"endTime":283.52,"body":"We met as a bishopric again, and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":283.52,"endTime":285.05,"body":"we decided to we're gonna do"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":283.52,"endTime":285.05,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":285.0,"endTime":287.1,"body":"What was that like for you?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":285.0,"endTime":287.1,"body":"When you saw that some people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":287.1,"endTime":289.74,"body":"were like, \"Yes, this needs to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":287.1,"endTime":289.74,"body":"happen. This is definitely"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":289.74,"endTime":292.68,"body":"something we should do.\" And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":289.74,"endTime":292.68,"body":"others were like, \"No, I really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":292.68,"endTime":295.02,"body":"don't think this is a good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":292.68,"endTime":295.02,"body":"idea.\" How did you respond to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":295.02,"endTime":295.41,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":296.38,"endTime":299.74,"body":"My first thought was"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":296.38,"endTime":299.74,"body":"no matter what I do now, I'm"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":299.74,"endTime":304.3,"body":"going to offend somebody. And I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":299.74,"endTime":304.3,"body":"knew we had kind of gone past"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":304.3,"endTime":307.36,"body":"the point of no return. Because"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":304.3,"endTime":307.36,"body":"if we at that point had stopped"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":307.36,"endTime":309.97,"body":"it, there were people that were"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":307.36,"endTime":309.97,"body":"going to be offended. There were"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":309.97,"endTime":311.92,"body":"other people that if we kept"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":309.97,"endTime":311.92,"body":"going forward are going to be"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":311.92,"endTime":319.75,"body":"offended. And so we had created"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":311.92,"endTime":319.75,"body":"a problem. And, and so we, we"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":319.75,"endTime":324.73,"body":"discussed it, and, and then I,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":319.75,"endTime":324.73,"body":"I, this was probably about in"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":324.82,"endTime":329.59,"body":"January or February, and I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":324.82,"endTime":329.59,"body":"didn't feel prepared at all, to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":329.59,"endTime":332.53,"body":"have this discussion with my"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":329.59,"endTime":332.53,"body":"ward yet. So I felt like I need"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":332.53,"endTime":338.35,"body":"to prepare. I need to do a lot"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":332.53,"endTime":338.35,"body":"more research and understanding"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":338.35,"endTime":341.44,"body":"of this topic before I stand up"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":338.35,"endTime":341.44,"body":"in front of our entire Ward--all"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":341.5,"endTime":345.55,"body":"the adults in the ward and have"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":341.5,"endTime":345.55,"body":"a discussion like this. And so I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":345.58,"endTime":349.66,"body":"I started to prepare, and I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":345.58,"endTime":349.66,"body":"started reading blogs and, and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":349.66,"endTime":352.39,"body":"understanding as much as I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":349.66,"endTime":352.39,"body":"could. And that's Ben, that's"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":352.39,"endTime":355.69,"body":"where I actually ran into your"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":352.39,"endTime":355.69,"body":"blog. That's my daughter in"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":355.99,"endTime":358.51,"body":"law--she pointed it out to me."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":355.99,"endTime":358.51,"body":"She said, \"Hey, I knew this guy,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":358.54,"endTime":363.46,"body":"my freshman year of college, he"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":358.54,"endTime":363.46,"body":"was a he was a sixth year senior"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":363.46,"endTime":365.41,"body":"or something like that.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":365.98,"endTime":367.09,"body":"Always in school."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":368.71,"endTime":372.73,"body":"A professional student so and so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":368.71,"endTime":372.73,"body":"I started reading the blogs. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":372.73,"endTime":377.98,"body":"then and then I also went and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":372.73,"endTime":377.98,"body":"started visiting families where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":378.01,"endTime":381.79,"body":"one of their children had come"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":378.01,"endTime":381.79,"body":"out as gay. And I talked to them"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":381.79,"endTime":384.31,"body":"about, you know, what was it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":381.79,"endTime":384.31,"body":"like? How hard was it? What were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":384.31,"endTime":386.56,"body":"the what were the emotional"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":384.31,"endTime":386.56,"body":"challenges that they went"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":386.56,"endTime":389.77,"body":"through? Or what were some of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":386.56,"endTime":389.77,"body":"their fears? And what was life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":389.77,"endTime":393.01,"body":"like growing, growing up for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":389.77,"endTime":393.01,"body":"them.?And I just started"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":393.01,"endTime":397.9,"body":"learning a lot, I learned just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":393.01,"endTime":397.9,"body":"so much about the emotional"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":397.9,"endTime":401.92,"body":"damage and the trauma that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":397.9,"endTime":401.92,"body":"people had gone through. And,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":402.76,"endTime":407.38,"body":"and then I just devoured"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":402.76,"endTime":407.38,"body":"everything I could on lds.org it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":407.38,"endTime":411.58,"body":"was called lds.org. back"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":407.38,"endTime":411.58,"body":"then--churchofJesusChrist.org"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":411.58,"endTime":414.1,"body":"now, which is now called"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":411.58,"endTime":414.1,"body":"Mormonandgay.org. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":414.1,"endTime":415.54,"body":"know, have they changed the name"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":414.1,"endTime":415.54,"body":"of it yet?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":415.54,"endTime":418.03,"body":"They have. Now it's under a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":415.54,"endTime":418.03,"body":"special topic section."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":418.48,"endTime":422.95,"body":"Okay. But, but I read"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":418.48,"endTime":422.95,"body":"everything on there. Because my"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":422.98,"endTime":427.0,"body":"first thought was, \"I don't want"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":422.98,"endTime":427.0,"body":"to be teaching anything against"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":427.09,"endTime":431.26,"body":"church doctrine, I want to be"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":427.09,"endTime":431.26,"body":"completely correct.\" But I also"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":431.26,"endTime":436.66,"body":"knew that Chris- like behavior"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":431.26,"endTime":436.66,"body":"was in line with church"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":436.66,"endTime":439.57,"body":"doctrine. And Christ-like"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":436.66,"endTime":439.57,"body":"behavior did not include"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":439.6,"endTime":443.23,"body":"excluding people. And so I had"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":439.6,"endTime":443.23,"body":"to figure out how do we find the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":443.23,"endTime":448.42,"body":"middle ground here, where we can"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":443.23,"endTime":448.42,"body":"teach true and correct doctrine"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":448.78,"endTime":454.06,"body":"and show and exhibit Christ-like"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":448.78,"endTime":454.06,"body":"behavior to every member of our"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":454.06,"endTime":459.91,"body":"Ward? Even those who experienced"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":454.06,"endTime":459.91,"body":"LGBTQ experiences. So that's"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":459.91,"endTime":462.19,"body":"what that's kind of where things"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":459.91,"endTime":462.19,"body":"got rolling."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":462.49,"endTime":464.14,"body":"Could I ask how long"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":462.49,"endTime":464.14,"body":"ago this was?"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":464.62,"endTime":468.97,"body":"This was in 2016. So"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":464.62,"endTime":468.97,"body":"it was about four years, about"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":468.97,"endTime":471.79,"body":"four years ago now. So I'd only"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":468.97,"endTime":471.79,"body":"been a bishop for about six"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":471.79,"endTime":475.0,"body":"months at this point. I was"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":471.79,"endTime":475.0,"body":"still green and inexperienced,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":475.0,"endTime":477.88,"body":"and I'm sure a lot of my members"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":475.0,"endTime":477.88,"body":"were looking at me as a very"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":477.88,"endTime":479.26,"body":"green and inexperienced bishop."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":480.02,"endTime":482.03,"body":"You know, I'm just really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":480.02,"endTime":482.03,"body":"impressed that you pushed"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":482.03,"endTime":484.97,"body":"forward with this prompting that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":482.03,"endTime":484.97,"body":"you had. About half the time I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":484.97,"endTime":487.82,"body":"get invited to speak in a ward,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":484.97,"endTime":487.82,"body":"I get uninvited because someone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":487.82,"endTime":491.03,"body":"feels uncomfortable, or they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":487.82,"endTime":491.03,"body":"raise concerns. And they say,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":491.45,"endTime":493.64,"body":"\"Actually, Ben, we're not going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":491.45,"endTime":493.64,"body":"to have you come.\" So it takes a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":493.64,"endTime":495.53,"body":"lot of courage to go forward"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":493.64,"endTime":495.53,"body":"with something like this."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":495.84,"endTime":497.85,"body":"Well, I think one of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":495.84,"endTime":497.85,"body":"the things that really helped"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":497.85,"endTime":501.36,"body":"is, I really loved those two"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":497.85,"endTime":501.36,"body":"young men. I still do love those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":501.36,"endTime":505.17,"body":"two young men. And they're not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":501.36,"endTime":505.17,"body":"young men anymore. They're both"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":505.17,"endTime":508.86,"body":"in their mid 30s. But I love"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":505.17,"endTime":508.86,"body":"them, and I love their families."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":508.95,"endTime":512.67,"body":"And I thought if I can do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":508.95,"endTime":512.67,"body":"anything to help their families"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":513.06,"endTime":516.66,"body":"feel like, like, they are still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":513.06,"endTime":516.66,"body":"a part of our ward, and they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":516.66,"endTime":520.59,"body":"loved. And if I can help those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":516.66,"endTime":520.59,"body":"two friends of mine, those two"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":520.59,"endTime":524.4,"body":"men understand that they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":520.59,"endTime":524.4,"body":"still loved and that there's not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":524.4,"endTime":528.27,"body":"any part of them that's rejected"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":524.4,"endTime":528.27,"body":"by me, that's worth it. And so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":528.27,"endTime":533.46,"body":"that's, that kept me going. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":528.27,"endTime":533.46,"body":"started thinking about, \"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":533.46,"endTime":536.37,"body":"we're gonna teach the church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":533.46,"endTime":536.37,"body":"doctrine, and we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":536.37,"endTime":540.51,"body":"very doctrinal oriented.\" And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":536.37,"endTime":540.51,"body":"then it's kind of switched to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":540.63,"endTime":543.45,"body":"\"We're going to be very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":540.63,"endTime":543.45,"body":"Christ-like, love oriented.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":543.81,"endTime":551.64,"body":"And, and then it evolved over"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":543.81,"endTime":551.64,"body":"time--to we really need to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":551.64,"endTime":556.2,"body":"understand and, and really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":551.64,"endTime":556.2,"body":"understand at a deep level, what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":556.2,"endTime":559.53,"body":"people are feeling what they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":556.2,"endTime":559.53,"body":"going through. Because I felt"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":559.53,"endTime":563.16,"body":"like once we understand, then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":559.53,"endTime":563.16,"body":"all of a sudden, all of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":563.16,"endTime":567.93,"body":"fears we have of homosexuals,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":563.16,"endTime":567.93,"body":"and homosexual behavior, they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":567.93,"endTime":574.65,"body":"just melt away. And I would say"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":567.93,"endTime":574.65,"body":"that, you know, a few years ago,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":574.68,"endTime":579.6,"body":"maybe 10 years ago or so, if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":574.68,"endTime":579.6,"body":"someone had said, \"Hey, I want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":579.6,"endTime":583.17,"body":"to I want to come bring my gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":579.6,"endTime":583.17,"body":"friend to your house.\" I would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":583.17,"endTime":586.92,"body":"have been really nervous. Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":583.17,"endTime":586.92,"body":"oh my gosh, what what's the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":586.92,"endTime":590.67,"body":"agenda here? Why, why do we have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":586.92,"endTime":590.67,"body":"a gay person in the house? And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":590.67,"endTime":593.79,"body":"like because I was fearful. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":590.67,"endTime":593.79,"body":"did not know. I did not know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":593.79,"endTime":600.69,"body":"what, what to think. And once I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":593.79,"endTime":600.69,"body":"got to know people, it's like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":600.69,"endTime":603.9,"body":"the fears where gone. It's like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":600.69,"endTime":603.9,"body":"nothing to be scared of here."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":604.17,"endTime":606.87,"body":"These are just wonderful, good"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":604.17,"endTime":606.87,"body":"people like all the other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":606.87,"endTime":611.07,"body":"wonderful good people that you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":606.87,"endTime":611.07,"body":"have. And they have, they carry"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":611.07,"endTime":614.64,"body":"something with them that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":611.07,"endTime":614.64,"body":"different than you, which is in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":614.64,"endTime":618.27,"body":"many cases, when you reconcile,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":614.64,"endTime":618.27,"body":"you're trying to reconcile what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":618.27,"endTime":622.35,"body":"they carry with with church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":618.27,"endTime":622.35,"body":"doctrine--that's not an easy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":622.35,"endTime":627.39,"body":"thing to carry. And the empathy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":622.35,"endTime":627.39,"body":"that I started to feel during"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":627.39,"endTime":632.22,"body":"this process was huge. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":627.39,"endTime":632.22,"body":"wanted our Ward members to start"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":632.22,"endTime":633.45,"body":"to feel that empathy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":634.17,"endTime":636.72,"body":"Something you said made me think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":634.17,"endTime":636.72,"body":"of something that President"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":636.72,"endTime":639.78,"body":"Ballard said, when he came to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":636.72,"endTime":639.78,"body":"BYU. I was actually there for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":639.78,"endTime":643.83,"body":"this devotional and it was like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":639.78,"endTime":643.83,"body":"a Q\u0026A format. And he said, \"We"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":643.83,"endTime":646.65,"body":"need to listen to and understand"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":643.83,"endTime":646.65,"body":"what our LGBT brothers and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":646.65,"endTime":649.8,"body":"sisters are feeling and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":646.65,"endTime":649.8,"body":"experiencing. Certainly, we must"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":649.8,"endTime":652.2,"body":"do better than we've done in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":649.8,"endTime":652.2,"body":"past so that all members feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":652.2,"endTime":654.81,"body":"they have a spiritual home where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":652.2,"endTime":654.81,"body":"their brothers and sisters love"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":654.81,"endTime":656.94,"body":"them, and where they have a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":654.81,"endTime":656.94,"body":"place to worship and serve the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":656.94,"endTime":657.3,"body":"Lord.\""},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":657.96,"endTime":662.01,"body":"Well, what I found as"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":657.96,"endTime":662.01,"body":"I started really diving into"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":662.01,"endTime":667.68,"body":"what the brethren have been"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":662.01,"endTime":667.68,"body":"saying about LGBTQ topics, was"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":667.68,"endTime":672.0,"body":"that they were way ahead of me."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":667.68,"endTime":672.0,"body":"I was surprised how many"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":672.0,"endTime":675.87,"body":"statements and how many"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":672.0,"endTime":675.87,"body":"commentaries from the Apostles I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":675.87,"endTime":682.95,"body":"found that were way more way"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":675.87,"endTime":682.95,"body":"more open to to opening our arms"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":682.95,"endTime":687.6,"body":"and our and our chapel doors"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":682.95,"endTime":687.6,"body":"and, and and our homes, to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":687.6,"endTime":690.99,"body":"members of this community than I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":687.6,"endTime":690.99,"body":"had thought. And I was surprised"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":690.99,"endTime":694.86,"body":"that I was behind a little bit"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":690.99,"endTime":694.86,"body":"in my thinking, because--I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":695.13,"endTime":698.34,"body":"remember specifically Elder"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":695.13,"endTime":698.34,"body":"Christofferson, Elder Oaks,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":698.37,"endTime":702.12,"body":"Elder Holland and Elder Cook--I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":698.37,"endTime":702.12,"body":"ran across quotes from all of"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":702.12,"endTime":706.53,"body":"them, talking about this issue"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":702.12,"endTime":706.53,"body":"and how we should be at the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":706.53,"endTime":711.33,"body":"forefront of showing love and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":706.53,"endTime":711.33,"body":"understanding, not at the back,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":711.81,"endTime":715.32,"body":"pointing fingers and and making"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":711.81,"endTime":715.32,"body":"people feel uncomfortable."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":715.74,"endTime":718.56,"body":"You know, similar to you,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":715.74,"endTime":718.56,"body":"whenever I am asked to share a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":718.56,"endTime":721.5,"body":"fifth Sunday lesson or a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":718.56,"endTime":721.5,"body":"fireside, I try to share stories"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":721.5,"endTime":724.92,"body":"that let people get to know me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":721.5,"endTime":724.92,"body":"and my experience. But I also"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":724.92,"endTime":728.04,"body":"purposely share stories of ways"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":724.92,"endTime":728.04,"body":"that my straight family and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":728.04,"endTime":731.07,"body":"friends have helped me so that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":728.04,"endTime":731.07,"body":"can give so that I can give"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":731.07,"endTime":734.37,"body":"models of how to support and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":731.07,"endTime":734.37,"body":"love LGBTQ people. Like you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":734.37,"endTime":737.1,"body":"said, when you really get to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":734.37,"endTime":737.1,"body":"know someone, you can't have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":737.1,"endTime":739.86,"body":"prejudice against them, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":737.1,"endTime":739.86,"body":"can't hate them. If you really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":739.86,"endTime":741.42,"body":"know someone your heart changes."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":741.6,"endTime":745.11,"body":"That is for sure."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":741.6,"endTime":745.11,"body":"When I was preparing my"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":745.56,"endTime":750.06,"body":"presentation for the ward, there"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":745.56,"endTime":750.06,"body":"I was, I put together the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":750.06,"endTime":753.3,"body":"PowerPoint presentation. I'd"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":750.06,"endTime":753.3,"body":"rehearsed it a few times. And"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":753.3,"endTime":757.05,"body":"this was about a month before I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":753.3,"endTime":757.05,"body":"was going to give it. And during"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":757.05,"endTime":762.42,"body":"that time, I had a name and a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":757.05,"endTime":762.42,"body":"face of someone I had worked"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":762.42,"endTime":767.1,"body":"with come to me. I was sitting"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":762.42,"endTime":767.1,"body":"at my kitchen table and his name"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":767.1,"endTime":771.12,"body":"and face came right to me. He"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":767.1,"endTime":771.12,"body":"was a he was a gay person I'd"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":771.12,"endTime":776.22,"body":"worked with on my very first job"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":771.12,"endTime":776.22,"body":"out of college. And I remembered"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":776.22,"endTime":779.88,"body":"some of the things that I had"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":776.22,"endTime":779.88,"body":"said about him to some of my"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":779.88,"endTime":783.3,"body":"co-workers and some of the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":779.88,"endTime":783.3,"body":"things that we had done. Not"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":783.36,"endTime":786.9,"body":"with him around but but when he"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":783.36,"endTime":786.9,"body":"was not around--some of the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":786.9,"endTime":790.68,"body":"things that we had said and and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":786.9,"endTime":790.68,"body":"done. For example, I was in a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":790.68,"endTime":793.32,"body":"purchasing office and one time"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":790.68,"endTime":793.32,"body":"he came down to create a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":793.32,"endTime":797.16,"body":"purchase order. And once he"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":793.32,"endTime":797.16,"body":"left, one of my co workers said,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":797.25,"endTime":801.99,"body":"\"You know he's gay, right?\" And"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":797.25,"endTime":801.99,"body":"I said, \"What? He's gay?\" And so"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":802.05,"endTime":805.32,"body":"half in jest, half in"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":802.05,"endTime":805.32,"body":"seriousness, we went to the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":805.32,"endTime":807.75,"body":"janitor's closet and got some"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":805.32,"endTime":807.75,"body":"disinfectant and cleaned the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":807.75,"endTime":811.47,"body":"whole area where he had been"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":807.75,"endTime":811.47,"body":"sitting. And I look back at"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":811.47,"endTime":813.99,"body":"that, and thought, \"Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":811.47,"endTime":813.99,"body":"heavens, what an embarrassment.I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":814.11,"endTime":818.49,"body":"was to myself.\" And as I was"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":814.11,"endTime":818.49,"body":"sitting there preparing my talk,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":818.64,"endTime":823.26,"body":"or my presentation, it occurred"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":818.64,"endTime":823.26,"body":"to me: \"How can you go and make"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":823.26,"endTime":826.89,"body":"a presentation like this until"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":823.26,"endTime":826.89,"body":"you've tracked down this person"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":827.22,"endTime":830.85,"body":"and made it right with them?\" So"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":827.22,"endTime":830.85,"body":"through--I hadn't worked with"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":830.85,"endTime":834.84,"body":"this guy for over 20 years--and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":830.85,"endTime":834.84,"body":"through through social media, I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":834.84,"endTime":840.33,"body":"was able to track him down. And"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":834.84,"endTime":840.33,"body":"I reached out to him and said,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":840.75,"endTime":843.81,"body":"\"Hey, my name is Carl Hull. We"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":840.75,"endTime":843.81,"body":"used to work together a long,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":843.81,"endTime":847.47,"body":"long time ago. Not sure if you"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":843.81,"endTime":847.47,"body":"remember me.\" And he responded"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":847.47,"endTime":850.74,"body":"back said, \"Yeah, I think I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":847.47,"endTime":850.74,"body":"remember you.\" We were never"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":850.74,"endTime":855.0,"body":"really close at all. And I said,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":850.74,"endTime":855.0,"body":"\"Are you still in the area?\" And"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":855.0,"endTime":857.28,"body":"he said, \"Yeah, I'm still in the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":855.0,"endTime":857.28,"body":"area.\" I said, \"Would you be"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":857.28,"endTime":865.56,"body":"willing to meet with me?\" And he"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":857.28,"endTime":865.56,"body":"said, \"Yeah. Okay.\" And so we"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":865.56,"endTime":869.28,"body":"met together at a Starbucks"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":865.56,"endTime":869.28,"body":"coffee house. I bought him a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":869.28,"endTime":872.01,"body":"cappuccino. First time I've ever"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":869.28,"endTime":872.01,"body":"bought a cappuccino in my life."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":872.46,"endTime":877.35,"body":"And I bought me a hot chocolate"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":872.46,"endTime":877.35,"body":"and we sat down and I said, \"You"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":877.38,"endTime":879.84,"body":"probably are wondering what I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":877.38,"endTime":879.84,"body":"want to meet with you.\" And he"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":879.84,"endTime":883.08,"body":"said, \"Yeah, I kind of did.\" And"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":879.84,"endTime":883.08,"body":"so I told him a little bit"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":883.08,"endTime":887.67,"body":"about, about my experience. And"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":883.08,"endTime":887.67,"body":"I said, \"I'm here to ask for"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":887.67,"endTime":892.89,"body":"your forgiveness. Because there"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":887.67,"endTime":892.89,"body":"was a time, a few times, 20 plus"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":892.89,"endTime":897.27,"body":"years ago, when I treated you"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":892.89,"endTime":897.27,"body":"very poorly. And I said things"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":897.27,"endTime":900.42,"body":"about you because I didn't know"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":897.27,"endTime":900.42,"body":"you and I didn't understand your"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":900.42,"endTime":905.25,"body":"situation and I thought you were"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":900.42,"endTime":905.25,"body":"an evil person. And I'm here to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":905.25,"endTime":909.36,"body":"apologize to you and ask for"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":905.25,"endTime":909.36,"body":"your forgiveness.\" And he teared"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":909.36,"endTime":915.12,"body":"up, immediately forgave me,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":909.36,"endTime":915.12,"body":"without any hesitation. And I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":915.12,"endTime":917.28,"body":"thought we were done. I thought"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":915.12,"endTime":917.28,"body":"we were done with our"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":917.28,"endTime":922.11,"body":"conversation. And he said,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":917.28,"endTime":922.11,"body":"\"Would you like to hear my"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":922.11,"endTime":926.76,"body":"story?\" And I said, \"Sure, I'd"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":922.11,"endTime":926.76,"body":"love to hear your story.\" And he"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":926.79,"endTime":930.36,"body":"opened up for the next 45"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":926.79,"endTime":930.36,"body":"minutes to an hour and told me"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":930.36,"endTime":934.44,"body":"his story. He talked about--he"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":930.36,"endTime":934.44,"body":"grew up somewhere very similar"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":934.44,"endTime":940.83,"body":"to Cottonwood Heights area of"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":934.44,"endTime":940.83,"body":"Salt Lake City, and was very"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":940.83,"endTime":944.91,"body":"good member of the church and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":940.83,"endTime":944.91,"body":"started feeling that he had"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":944.91,"endTime":949.02,"body":"these feelings as a as a as an"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":944.91,"endTime":949.02,"body":"early teenager, and wasn't sure"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":949.02,"endTime":951.03,"body":"what to do with them. And this"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":949.02,"endTime":951.03,"body":"would would have been back in"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":951.03,"endTime":954.39,"body":"the probably late 70s, early"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":951.03,"endTime":954.39,"body":"80s, when it was just really a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":954.39,"endTime":959.01,"body":"taboo topic. And he talked about"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":954.39,"endTime":959.01,"body":"how much he hated himself and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":959.01,"endTime":962.07,"body":"how much he hated his life. And,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":959.01,"endTime":962.07,"body":"and he went, he talked about the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":962.07,"endTime":965.19,"body":"times that he was suicidal, and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":962.07,"endTime":965.19,"body":"how he felt like if he served a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":965.19,"endTime":967.56,"body":"good mission, it would go away."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":965.19,"endTime":967.56,"body":"And if he was a good young man,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":967.56,"endTime":970.98,"body":"it would go away. And just"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":967.56,"endTime":970.98,"body":"everything he tried, nothing"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":970.98,"endTime":975.18,"body":"would make it go away. And then"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":970.98,"endTime":975.18,"body":"he finally just came to grips"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":975.18,"endTime":979.68,"body":"with who he was, and and then"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":975.18,"endTime":979.68,"body":"didn't see a place for himself"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":979.68,"endTime":982.44,"body":"in the church, which I can"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":979.68,"endTime":982.44,"body":"understand, because I don't"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":982.44,"endTime":986.4,"body":"think there really was much of a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":982.44,"endTime":986.4,"body":"place for him there. That as"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":986.4,"endTime":989.07,"body":"church members, I think we've"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":986.4,"endTime":989.07,"body":"gotten a lot better, we can"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":989.07,"endTime":991.8,"body":"still get better. But I think he"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":989.07,"endTime":991.8,"body":"just didn't see a place for"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":991.8,"endTime":996.0,"body":"himself. And so he left and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":991.8,"endTime":996.0,"body":"I--so as he unfolded, unfolded"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":996.0,"endTime":1000.08,"body":"his whole story that I had never"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":996.0,"endTime":1000.08,"body":"known -- I didn't know that he"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1000.08,"endTime":1002.21,"body":"was ever even a member of the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1000.08,"endTime":1002.21,"body":"church. And I found out he had"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1002.21,"endTime":1004.97,"body":"served a mission and served in a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1002.21,"endTime":1004.97,"body":"bishopric and all these things"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1004.97,"endTime":1010.4,"body":"that he had done, I was just"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1004.97,"endTime":1010.4,"body":"flabbergasted. And and realized"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1010.4,"endTime":1014.42,"body":"that boy, once you start hearing"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1010.4,"endTime":1014.42,"body":"people's stories, and they"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1014.42,"endTime":1018.95,"body":"become people, then it's a lot"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1014.42,"endTime":1018.95,"body":"easier to love them. And not to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1018.95,"endTime":1019.97,"body":"be fearful of them."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1020.05,"endTime":1023.23,"body":"Carl, I'm noticing this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1020.05,"endTime":1023.23,"body":"theme of wanting to hear"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1023.23,"endTime":1025.42,"body":"people's stories and learning"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1023.23,"endTime":1025.42,"body":"from those stories and this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1025.42,"endTime":1028.42,"body":"desire that you had to share the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1025.42,"endTime":1028.42,"body":"things you were learning by"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1028.42,"endTime":1031.81,"body":"hearing LGBTQ stories with the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1028.42,"endTime":1031.81,"body":"people in your ward. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1031.81,"endTime":1034.66,"body":"just really grateful for the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1031.81,"endTime":1034.66,"body":"people who have allowed me to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1034.66,"endTime":1038.14,"body":"share my story in a church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1034.66,"endTime":1038.14,"body":"setting. I remember I moved to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1038.14,"endTime":1042.19,"body":"new ward in Tucson, Arizona, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1038.14,"endTime":1042.19,"body":"I had been asked to give a talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1042.19,"endTime":1044.8,"body":"and I asked the bishop"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1042.19,"endTime":1044.8,"body":"beforehand, if I could come out"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1044.8,"endTime":1048.52,"body":"of my talk because it was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1044.8,"endTime":1048.52,"body":"relevant to the message I wanted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1048.52,"endTime":1051.04,"body":"to share. And I remember him"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1048.52,"endTime":1051.04,"body":"saying, \"I don't see why that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1051.04,"endTime":1054.67,"body":"would be a problem.\" So I came"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1051.04,"endTime":1054.67,"body":"out in my talk and I was brand"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1054.67,"endTime":1056.92,"body":"new to the ward, I'd only been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1054.67,"endTime":1056.92,"body":"there for a couple of weeks. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1056.92,"endTime":1060.64,"body":"after my talk about six people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1056.92,"endTime":1060.64,"body":"came up to introduce themselves"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1060.64,"endTime":1063.52,"body":"and to thank me for being so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1060.64,"endTime":1063.52,"body":"open and honest. And to welcome"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1063.52,"endTime":1065.17,"body":"me to the ward. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1063.52,"endTime":1065.17,"body":"immediately knew that that was a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1065.17,"endTime":1068.65,"body":"place where I could belong. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1065.17,"endTime":1068.65,"body":"I didn't do it all the time. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1068.65,"endTime":1071.02,"body":"when it was, when it came"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1068.65,"endTime":1071.02,"body":"organically, I would mention"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1071.05,"endTime":1075.16,"body":"being gay and comments or in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1071.05,"endTime":1075.16,"body":"lessons and, and people were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1075.16,"endTime":1078.31,"body":"really welcoming and kind and,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1075.16,"endTime":1078.31,"body":"and I found that I was really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1078.31,"endTime":1081.55,"body":"able to be myself in that ward"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1078.31,"endTime":1081.55,"body":"because I didn't have to hide"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1081.55,"endTime":1086.11,"body":"this part of me. And my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1081.55,"endTime":1086.11,"body":"orientation has been so integral"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1086.11,"endTime":1091.51,"body":"to so much of my spiritual"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1086.11,"endTime":1091.51,"body":"learning and how I progressed on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1091.51,"endTime":1094.51,"body":"the gospel path and and if I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1091.51,"endTime":1094.51,"body":"don't share that part of me,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1094.51,"endTime":1098.68,"body":"then I really can't share all of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1094.51,"endTime":1098.68,"body":"who I am. How did this process"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1098.68,"endTime":1100.33,"body":"of planning the presentation on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1098.68,"endTime":1100.33,"body":"unfold?"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1102.46,"endTime":1106.21,"body":"I had the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1102.46,"endTime":1106.21,"body":"presentation all ready. And I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1106.42,"endTime":1109.27,"body":"wanted to rehearse it a couple"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1106.42,"endTime":1109.27,"body":"of times. And so my wife was"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1109.27,"endTime":1111.31,"body":"good enough to listen to me. And"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1109.27,"endTime":1111.31,"body":"I..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1111.34,"endTime":1112.66,"body":"Were you so nervous?"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1112.72,"endTime":1116.86,"body":"I was I was very"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1112.72,"endTime":1116.86,"body":"nervous. Yes. And so I made the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1116.86,"endTime":1120.52,"body":"presentation, I'd asked her, I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1116.86,"endTime":1120.52,"body":"said, \"Would you please just not"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1120.52,"endTime":1123.79,"body":"make any comments, just listen"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1120.52,"endTime":1123.79,"body":"and take notes. Then when we're"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1123.79,"endTime":1127.48,"body":"done, would you please give me"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1123.79,"endTime":1127.48,"body":"your feedback?\" So I went clear"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1127.48,"endTime":1129.97,"body":"through the presentation, I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1127.48,"endTime":1129.97,"body":"thought I had done a pretty good"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1129.97,"endTime":1133.54,"body":"job. And when I got done, I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1129.97,"endTime":1133.54,"body":"said, \"So what did you think?\""},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1133.57,"endTime":1139.99,"body":"She said, \"That was really"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1133.57,"endTime":1139.99,"body":"terrible.\" She roasted me. And I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1139.99,"endTime":1142.63,"body":"said, \"Well, what was wrong with"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1139.99,"endTime":1142.63,"body":"it?\" She said, \"It's just so"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1142.63,"endTime":1146.83,"body":"cold. It's just it's boring."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1142.63,"endTime":1146.83,"body":"It's cold. And it's just it's"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1146.89,"endTime":1149.41,"body":"you're going through a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1146.89,"endTime":1149.41,"body":"church quotes and doctrines.\""},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1149.41,"endTime":1152.92,"body":"She said, \"You've got to tell"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1149.41,"endTime":1152.92,"body":"stories.\" And she said, \"You've"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1152.92,"endTime":1155.41,"body":"got to tell the story about the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1152.92,"endTime":1155.41,"body":"person you reached out to."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1155.41,"endTime":1158.32,"body":"You've got to tell the stories"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1155.41,"endTime":1158.32,"body":"about people who've experienced"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1158.32,"endTime":1162.43,"body":"this. And you've got to make it"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1158.32,"endTime":1162.43,"body":"people-based and not"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1162.46,"endTime":1166.72,"body":"doctrinal-based.\" And so I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1162.46,"endTime":1166.72,"body":"completely changed my entire"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1166.72,"endTime":1170.89,"body":"presentation based upon her"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1166.72,"endTime":1170.89,"body":"feedback. And we, during the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1170.89,"endTime":1174.28,"body":"third hour, back when we had a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1170.89,"endTime":1174.28,"body":"third hour, we made the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1174.28,"endTime":1178.63,"body":"presentation and it was all--it"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1174.28,"endTime":1178.63,"body":"was a series of stories. And and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1178.63,"endTime":1180.85,"body":"Ben had actually given me"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1178.63,"endTime":1180.85,"body":"permission to use his picture."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1180.88,"endTime":1184.54,"body":"So it was a story with a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1180.88,"endTime":1184.54,"body":"picture. But anyway, we we so we"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1184.54,"endTime":1187.9,"body":"shared the stories. And and I,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1184.54,"endTime":1187.9,"body":"at the very beginning I had"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1187.9,"endTime":1193.57,"body":"asked the ward--I said, \"This is"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1187.9,"endTime":1193.57,"body":"not a discussion. This is a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1193.57,"endTime":1198.91,"body":"presentation.\" And I'd asked him"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1193.57,"endTime":1198.91,"body":"to just sit back and listen and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1199.06,"endTime":1203.29,"body":"and try to feel the Holy Ghost."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1199.06,"endTime":1203.29,"body":"And my wife and all of my"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1203.29,"endTime":1208.15,"body":"married kids, and even my single"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1203.29,"endTime":1208.15,"body":"kids too, they all fasted for"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1208.15,"endTime":1213.67,"body":"me. And so we approached this,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1208.15,"endTime":1213.67,"body":"this meeting fasting, for help."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1214.33,"endTime":1217.72,"body":"And by the time I stood up, I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1214.33,"endTime":1217.72,"body":"was already feeling the spirit"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1217.72,"endTime":1222.46,"body":"really strongly. And, and then"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1217.72,"endTime":1222.46,"body":"as the presentation went, I"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1222.46,"endTime":1226.0,"body":"could tell that some members"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1222.46,"endTime":1226.0,"body":"were doing really well, and some"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1226.03,"endTime":1229.54,"body":"were struggling, but they were"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1226.03,"endTime":1229.54,"body":"there. And they were listening."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1230.11,"endTime":1234.31,"body":"And when we got done, I had"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1230.11,"endTime":1234.31,"body":"quite a few members who came up"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1234.31,"endTime":1238.48,"body":"and thanked me. I had a couple"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1234.31,"endTime":1238.48,"body":"of members who came up and said,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1238.51,"endTime":1242.38,"body":"\"That was a hard presentation to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1238.51,"endTime":1242.38,"body":"sit through. But I'm going to go"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1242.38,"endTime":1244.75,"body":"home and think about it, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1242.38,"endTime":1244.75,"body":"going to go home and listen to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1244.75,"endTime":1250.54,"body":"it.\" And, and overall, it was,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1244.75,"endTime":1250.54,"body":"it was, I think, extremely well"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1250.54,"endTime":1254.44,"body":"received. I think if you were to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1250.54,"endTime":1254.44,"body":"go and take a poll of people in"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1254.44,"endTime":1258.1,"body":"our ward, and ask them, \"Do we"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1254.44,"endTime":1258.1,"body":"have an accepting and a loving"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1258.1,"endTime":1262.69,"body":"ward?\" I think that that by and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1258.1,"endTime":1262.69,"body":"large, the overwhelming majority"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1262.69,"endTime":1267.76,"body":"would say we have a very loving"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1262.69,"endTime":1267.76,"body":"ward. And if someone, if someone"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1267.76,"endTime":1271.57,"body":"is does not fit the typical"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1267.76,"endTime":1271.57,"body":"Mormon mold, there's a place for"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1271.57,"endTime":1272.5,"body":"them in our pews."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1273.62,"endTime":1275.69,"body":"What have been the effects"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1273.62,"endTime":1275.69,"body":"of that lesson in the year"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1275.69,"endTime":1276.26,"body":"since?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1276.54,"endTime":1279.39,"body":"We have had, we've had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1276.54,"endTime":1279.39,"body":"some follow up lessons, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1279.39,"endTime":1283.08,"body":"didn't want that to be a one and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1279.39,"endTime":1283.08,"body":"done type of a thing. So we on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1283.47,"endTime":1287.76,"body":"this particular Sunday, we we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1283.47,"endTime":1287.76,"body":"gave the lesson to all of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1287.76,"endTime":1291.54,"body":"adults. The very next Sunday, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1287.76,"endTime":1291.54,"body":"gave the same lesson but to the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1291.54,"endTime":1295.23,"body":"youth. And we wanted the adults"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1291.54,"endTime":1295.23,"body":"to know we're going to be having"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1295.23,"endTime":1297.48,"body":"the same discussion with the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1295.23,"endTime":1297.48,"body":"youth. And they need to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1297.48,"endTime":1301.53,"body":"understand where we stand on it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1297.48,"endTime":1301.53,"body":"So the youth had the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1301.53,"endTime":1304.62,"body":"presentation. And in that one,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1301.53,"endTime":1304.62,"body":"we actually had a young men, a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1304.62,"endTime":1308.43,"body":"young man from our stake, who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1304.62,"endTime":1308.43,"body":"had come out about a year"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1308.43,"endTime":1312.66,"body":"previous that came in and spoke"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1308.43,"endTime":1312.66,"body":"to the youth. And so I made a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1312.66,"endTime":1315.27,"body":"very similar type of a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1312.66,"endTime":1315.27,"body":"presentation. And then at the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1315.27,"endTime":1319.53,"body":"very end, he stood up and shared"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1315.27,"endTime":1319.53,"body":"his personal experience, which"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1319.53,"endTime":1323.1,"body":"made it very powerful because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1319.53,"endTime":1323.1,"body":"some of the kids knew him. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1323.13,"endTime":1328.89,"body":"that was that was a very strong"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1323.13,"endTime":1328.89,"body":"a strong endorsement that okay,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1328.89,"endTime":1332.76,"body":"yes, this is someone who can be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1328.89,"endTime":1332.76,"body":"loved. And so we had that. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1332.76,"endTime":1338.07,"body":"then we've had a series of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1332.76,"endTime":1338.07,"body":"discussions as a ward. Since"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1338.07,"endTime":1341.76,"body":"that time, we've talked about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1338.07,"endTime":1341.76,"body":"what how should we handle people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1341.76,"endTime":1345.39,"body":"who have serious doubts and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1341.76,"endTime":1345.39,"body":"questions about the church? How"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1345.39,"endTime":1349.38,"body":"should we handle people who who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1345.39,"endTime":1349.38,"body":"don't fit in because their"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1349.38,"endTime":1354.0,"body":"marital status is different than"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1349.38,"endTime":1354.0,"body":"ours, or they never have had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.0,"endTime":1357.57,"body":"that opportunity? And so we've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.0,"endTime":1357.57,"body":"tried to address difficult"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1357.57,"endTime":1360.66,"body":"topics throughout the entire"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1357.57,"endTime":1360.66,"body":"time. And then when we ever we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1360.66,"endTime":1363.27,"body":"talk about a difficult,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1360.66,"endTime":1363.27,"body":"difficult topic, we always refer"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1363.27,"endTime":1367.26,"body":"back to this one. And I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1363.27,"endTime":1367.26,"body":"people realize, okay, that was a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1367.26,"endTime":1370.5,"body":"good experience, we actually had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1367.26,"endTime":1370.5,"body":"some good results from that. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1370.5,"endTime":1373.02,"body":"maybe I can be open minded about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1370.5,"endTime":1373.02,"body":"the next thing we're going to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1373.02,"endTime":1378.24,"body":"talk about and, and, and be okay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1373.02,"endTime":1378.24,"body":"with it. And so it's become a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1378.24,"endTime":1382.53,"body":"topic that people are not scared"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1378.24,"endTime":1382.53,"body":"of in our a ward. And when it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1382.53,"endTime":1386.43,"body":"comes up, I think it's we've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1382.53,"endTime":1386.43,"body":"also talked about that when it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1386.43,"endTime":1391.74,"body":"comes up in the ward, jokes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1386.43,"endTime":1391.74,"body":"about gays are not accepted. The"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1391.89,"endTime":1394.98,"body":"comments that are derogatory are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1391.89,"endTime":1394.98,"body":"just not accepted anywhere at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1394.98,"endTime":1399.48,"body":"any class in our ward. And we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1394.98,"endTime":1399.48,"body":"hope it stays that way forever."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1400.44,"endTime":1402.87,"body":"As you've been talking, I keep"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1400.44,"endTime":1402.87,"body":"thinking about these two"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1402.87,"endTime":1406.47,"body":"original young men that you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1402.87,"endTime":1406.47,"body":"talked about. And a piece of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1406.47,"endTime":1410.25,"body":"advice that I often give to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1406.47,"endTime":1410.25,"body":"people as--I have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1410.28,"endTime":1413.07,"body":"seminary teachers or gospel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1410.28,"endTime":1413.07,"body":"doctrine, teachers reach out to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1413.07,"endTime":1416.01,"body":"me and ask how they can make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1413.07,"endTime":1416.01,"body":"their classes more friendly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1416.01,"endTime":1420.03,"body":"towards the LGBTQ community--and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1416.01,"endTime":1420.03,"body":"a piece of advice I give is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1420.06,"endTime":1424.26,"body":"treat every lesson as if there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1420.06,"endTime":1424.26,"body":"a an LGBTQ individual in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1424.26,"endTime":1429.96,"body":"room, because most likely there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1424.26,"endTime":1429.96,"body":"is. And I don't know, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1430.02,"endTime":1433.92,"body":"it's so incredible to hear the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1430.02,"endTime":1433.92,"body":"story. And imagine myself 10 or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1433.92,"endTime":1437.73,"body":"15 years ago, in this ward in a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1433.92,"endTime":1437.73,"body":"youth group and having that sort"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1437.73,"endTime":1441.3,"body":"of resource and realizing that--"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1437.73,"endTime":1441.3,"body":"so often, I feel like there's so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1441.3,"endTime":1445.05,"body":"many, like my church experience"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1441.3,"endTime":1445.05,"body":"growing up has been so beautiful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1445.05,"endTime":1449.31,"body":"and and my testimony is very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1445.05,"endTime":1449.31,"body":"strong, but it's also so coupled"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1449.31,"endTime":1453.0,"body":"with derogatory comments or so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1449.31,"endTime":1453.0,"body":"many like little daggers that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1453.0,"endTime":1457.05,"body":"say, \"We love you, but you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1453.0,"endTime":1457.05,"body":"not welcome here.\" And it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1457.05,"endTime":1460.38,"body":"always coupled by this \"I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1457.05,"endTime":1460.38,"body":"know if i actually belong here.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1460.74,"endTime":1466.08,"body":"Or for years I felt like if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1460.74,"endTime":1466.08,"body":"people knew who I was, or this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1466.11,"endTime":1468.36,"body":"the side of me that they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1466.11,"endTime":1468.36,"body":"wouldn't accept me I wouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1468.36,"endTime":1472.44,"body":"welcomed. I wouldn't be asked to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1468.36,"endTime":1472.44,"body":"say a prayer or be sent on a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1472.44,"endTime":1475.41,"body":"ministering assignment--just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1472.44,"endTime":1475.41,"body":"just so many so many little"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1475.41,"endTime":1481.68,"body":"things and I'm so happy for your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1475.41,"endTime":1481.68,"body":"ward and for for anyone in that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1481.68,"endTime":1484.98,"body":"world who is LGBTQ because they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1481.68,"endTime":1484.98,"body":"never have to feel out again."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1485.28,"endTime":1488.91,"body":"And they can go and sit on the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1485.28,"endTime":1488.91,"body":"pew and feel comfortable with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1488.91,"endTime":1491.73,"body":"who they are and have a place"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1488.91,"endTime":1491.73,"body":"where they can worship and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1491.73,"endTime":1497.25,"body":"connect with God and and feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1491.73,"endTime":1497.25,"body":"the power of Jesus Christ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1497.25,"endTime":1502.02,"body":"without worrying if they're safe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1497.25,"endTime":1502.02,"body":"there. And that's so beautiful."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1502.97,"endTime":1505.16,"body":"Well, that's that's"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1502.97,"endTime":1505.16,"body":"exactly what we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1505.16,"endTime":1508.37,"body":"create. I don't know if we're"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1505.16,"endTime":1508.37,"body":"perfect, but I, I think we're"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1508.37,"endTime":1509.63,"body":"doing a pretty good job."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1510.62,"endTime":1513.56,"body":"Another thing I'll add"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1510.62,"endTime":1513.56,"body":"is, I think a lot of people are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1513.56,"endTime":1517.7,"body":"hesitant to, to ask questions or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1513.56,"endTime":1517.7,"body":"to bring this up because they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1517.7,"endTime":1521.45,"body":"don't want to say the wrong"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1517.7,"endTime":1521.45,"body":"thing. And I'm really impressed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1521.45,"endTime":1524.18,"body":"by the way you went and talked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1521.45,"endTime":1524.18,"body":"to different individuals and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1524.18,"endTime":1527.96,"body":"tried to learn stories. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1524.18,"endTime":1527.96,"body":"don't think anybody has ever"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1527.96,"endTime":1531.26,"body":"said the wrong thing to me, when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1527.96,"endTime":1531.26,"body":"they come at it with an attitude"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1531.29,"endTime":1534.47,"body":"of \"I want to understand and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1531.29,"endTime":1534.47,"body":"want to be able to love you.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1535.14,"endTime":1540.45,"body":"I believe that as well. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1535.14,"endTime":1540.45,"body":"since that presentation, we had,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1540.57,"endTime":1544.35,"body":"I had two or three members that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1540.57,"endTime":1544.35,"body":"came in and talked to me about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1544.35,"endTime":1549.69,"body":"their personal experiences. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1544.35,"endTime":1549.69,"body":"we've had several comments from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1549.72,"endTime":1553.56,"body":"members of the ward over the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1549.72,"endTime":1553.56,"body":"last few years, that that point"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1553.56,"endTime":1556.23,"body":"back to that conversation, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1553.56,"endTime":1556.23,"body":"boy, I'll never forget the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1556.23,"endTime":1558.75,"body":"spirit that was in that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1556.23,"endTime":1558.75,"body":"meeting,\" or \"I'll never forget"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1559.11,"endTime":1561.96,"body":"what I learned in that meeting.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1559.11,"endTime":1561.96,"body":"Or \"I'll never forget how my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1561.96,"endTime":1566.73,"body":"thinking started to change"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1561.96,"endTime":1566.73,"body":"because of that meeting.\" So I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1567.09,"endTime":1572.55,"body":"really, I think that we all took"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1567.09,"endTime":1572.55,"body":"another step toward Christ. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1572.55,"endTime":1576.12,"body":"really do. Because I don't think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1572.55,"endTime":1576.12,"body":"Christ rejects. I think Christ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1576.12,"endTime":1580.14,"body":"is always encouraging, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1576.12,"endTime":1580.14,"body":"always loving. And I guess the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1580.14,"endTime":1584.04,"body":"other thing I learned from that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1580.14,"endTime":1584.04,"body":"experience, is that as a bishop,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1584.07,"endTime":1588.18,"body":"I want to make sure that anytime"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1584.07,"endTime":1588.18,"body":"anyone leaves my office, they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1588.18,"endTime":1594.27,"body":"feel an increased level of hope,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1588.18,"endTime":1594.27,"body":"and not a not a downer, or, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1594.27,"endTime":1598.02,"body":"man, I'm really in trouble. Now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1594.27,"endTime":1598.02,"body":"I've got a problem.\" I want them"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1598.02,"endTime":1601.41,"body":"to leave the office feeling like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1598.02,"endTime":1601.41,"body":"\"Wow, I can do this, I can I can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1601.41,"endTime":1605.88,"body":"get through this.\" And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1601.41,"endTime":1605.88,"body":"can--and if I can help, then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1605.88,"endTime":1608.58,"body":"think that's what the Savior"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1605.88,"endTime":1608.58,"body":"would do--is He would always"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1608.58,"endTime":1612.57,"body":"give someone a reason to hope."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1608.58,"endTime":1612.57,"body":"And I want everyone in my ward"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1612.6,"endTime":1616.05,"body":"to have that reason for hope,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1612.6,"endTime":1616.05,"body":"regardless of what their"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1616.05,"endTime":1620.28,"body":"situation is. And what what I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1616.05,"endTime":1620.28,"body":"often told members of our Ward"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1620.28,"endTime":1623.67,"body":"is, the people in our Ward who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1620.28,"endTime":1623.67,"body":"don't have serious challenges"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1623.67,"endTime":1626.79,"body":"and problems in their, in their,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1623.67,"endTime":1626.79,"body":"in their lives, are the people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1626.79,"endTime":1629.73,"body":"you really haven't gotten to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1626.79,"endTime":1629.73,"body":"know very well yet. Everyone is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1629.73,"endTime":1633.36,"body":"carrying some type of a burden."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1629.73,"endTime":1633.36,"body":"And some of those burdens are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1633.36,"endTime":1636.3,"body":"silent. And some of them are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1633.36,"endTime":1636.3,"body":"kind of out in the open. But the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1636.3,"endTime":1640.11,"body":"silent burdens are the ones that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1636.3,"endTime":1640.11,"body":"are there that where people are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1640.11,"endTime":1644.22,"body":"suffering and you don't know it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1640.11,"endTime":1644.22,"body":"And we need to do all we can to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1644.22,"endTime":1648.03,"body":"let them let those people know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1644.22,"endTime":1648.03,"body":"that they can open up and they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1648.03,"endTime":1651.12,"body":"can share their burdens, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1648.03,"endTime":1651.12,"body":"they're going to find acceptance"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1651.12,"endTime":1652.2,"body":"and love in our ward."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1653.8,"endTime":1656.68,"body":"I just really want to share"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1653.8,"endTime":1656.68,"body":"the story about how Carl and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1656.68,"endTime":1659.11,"body":"met really quick. So as he was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1656.68,"endTime":1659.11,"body":"planning this lesson for his"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1659.11,"endTime":1662.11,"body":"ward, he told all of his family"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1659.11,"endTime":1662.11,"body":"that he was going to do this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1662.11,"endTime":1664.48,"body":"and, and one of his"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1662.11,"endTime":1664.48,"body":"daughters-in-law is a good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1664.48,"endTime":1667.45,"body":"friend of mine from BYU from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1664.48,"endTime":1667.45,"body":"like 10 years ago. And so she"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1667.45,"endTime":1670.69,"body":"mentioned my blog, which Carl"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1667.45,"endTime":1670.69,"body":"read some of and then he reached"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1670.69,"endTime":1674.14,"body":"out to me through email. So he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1670.69,"endTime":1674.14,"body":"and I emailed back and forth."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1674.14,"endTime":1678.01,"body":"And then and I gave him some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1674.14,"endTime":1678.01,"body":"ideas about the lesson and and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1678.01,"endTime":1681.22,"body":"then afterwards, he told me how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1678.01,"endTime":1681.22,"body":"it had gone. And I was living in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1681.22,"endTime":1683.92,"body":"Arizona at the time. He said,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1681.22,"endTime":1683.92,"body":"\"Ben, if you're ever up in Utah,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1683.92,"endTime":1686.02,"body":"we'd love to have you over for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1683.92,"endTime":1686.02,"body":"dinner.\" So a couple months"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1686.02,"endTime":1688.69,"body":"later, I was actually in Utah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1686.02,"endTime":1688.69,"body":"And so I emailed him, I said,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1688.69,"endTime":1691.84,"body":"\"Hey, I'm in Utah, that dinner"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1688.69,"endTime":1691.84,"body":"invitation still stands.\" And as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1691.84,"endTime":1694.24,"body":"I was driving your house at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1691.84,"endTime":1694.24,"body":"that, \"What am I doing? I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1694.24,"endTime":1696.85,"body":"know, these people.\" I was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1694.24,"endTime":1696.85,"body":"\"Well, at the very least, it'll"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1696.85,"endTime":1700.39,"body":"be a good story to tell.\" And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1696.85,"endTime":1700.39,"body":"I rang the doorbell. And then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1700.39,"endTime":1702.67,"body":"when you opened the door, I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1700.39,"endTime":1702.67,"body":"gonna shake your hand, and you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1702.67,"endTime":1705.91,"body":"just said, \"In this house, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1702.67,"endTime":1705.91,"body":"hug our heroes,\" and you gave me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1705.91,"endTime":1708.37,"body":"a hug. And I just knew that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1705.91,"endTime":1708.37,"body":"was going to be welcomed and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1708.37,"endTime":1711.55,"body":"loved there. And we talked all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1708.37,"endTime":1711.55,"body":"about these stories that you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1711.55,"endTime":1715.39,"body":"sharing and, and I just felt so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1711.55,"endTime":1715.39,"body":"much hope that someone like you,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1715.39,"endTime":1718.51,"body":"who didn't really have a strong"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1715.39,"endTime":1718.51,"body":"connection to the LGBTQ world,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1718.72,"endTime":1721.99,"body":"had felt a prompting from the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1718.72,"endTime":1721.99,"body":"Holy Ghost to do something, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1721.99,"endTime":1724.9,"body":"then did it. And you acted on it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1721.99,"endTime":1724.9,"body":"and it wasn't the easiest thing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1724.9,"endTime":1728.41,"body":"to do. It took a lot of work."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1724.9,"endTime":1728.41,"body":"And you helped a lot of people."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1728.74,"endTime":1732.04,"body":"And I have no doubt that there"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1728.74,"endTime":1732.04,"body":"are \"Carls\" all over the church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1732.04,"endTime":1734.41,"body":"who are receiving promptings and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1732.04,"endTime":1734.41,"body":"having the courage to act on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1734.41,"endTime":1734.68,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1735.56,"endTime":1739.73,"body":"I agree. I I think I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1735.56,"endTime":1739.73,"body":"was probably started in my quest"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1739.73,"endTime":1744.2,"body":"for this by my Stake President."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1739.73,"endTime":1744.2,"body":"One quick story about a Stake"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1744.2,"endTime":1745.91,"body":"President. So if there's any"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1744.2,"endTime":1745.91,"body":"Stake President listening to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1746.99,"endTime":1751.7,"body":"this--my Stake President, he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1746.99,"endTime":1751.7,"body":"invited the entire stake PEC,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1752.12,"endTime":1756.86,"body":"and all of the bishops and all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1752.12,"endTime":1756.86,"body":"of the stake auxilary"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1757.7,"endTime":1761.54,"body":"organizational leaders to come"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1757.7,"endTime":1761.54,"body":"to a meeting and they and the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1761.54,"endTime":1767.21,"body":"topic was same sex attraction."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1761.54,"endTime":1767.21,"body":"And so and he didn't tell us"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1767.21,"endTime":1771.2,"body":"anything about the about who is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1767.21,"endTime":1771.2,"body":"going to be speaking. And so we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1771.2,"endTime":1773.48,"body":"all go to the meeting. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1771.2,"endTime":1773.48,"body":"there's a guest speaker there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1773.48,"endTime":1776.51,"body":"that who we all expected is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1773.48,"endTime":1776.51,"body":"probably you know, some very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1776.54,"endTime":1780.08,"body":"renowned therapist and really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1776.54,"endTime":1780.08,"body":"knows the topic well and can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1780.08,"endTime":1784.4,"body":"really help out. And so after"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1780.08,"endTime":1784.4,"body":"the opening song and prayer, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1784.64,"endTime":1791.06,"body":"the the short introduction,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1784.64,"endTime":1791.06,"body":"Joseph Stith stands up, and he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1791.06,"endTime":1794.06,"body":"starts out and says, \"Hello, my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1791.06,"endTime":1794.06,"body":"name is BrotherJoseph Stith. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1794.06,"endTime":1798.08,"body":"was a former Bishop, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1794.06,"endTime":1798.08,"body":"gay.\" And and we were all just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1798.08,"endTime":1802.88,"body":"stunned. We all sit back in our"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1798.08,"endTime":1802.88,"body":"seats like we're being taught"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1802.88,"endTime":1808.34,"body":"here by a gay man and our Stake"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1802.88,"endTime":1808.34,"body":"President's okay with it? And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1808.34,"endTime":1811.28,"body":"that was one of the first"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1808.34,"endTime":1811.28,"body":"eye-opening experiences that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1811.28,"endTime":1816.59,"body":"had. So our Stake President,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1811.28,"endTime":1816.59,"body":"really, really cut the ice for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1816.62,"endTime":1820.55,"body":"all of our bishops and all of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1816.62,"endTime":1820.55,"body":"the members of the stake PEC to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.55,"endTime":1825.14,"body":"think start reframing how we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.55,"endTime":1825.14,"body":"think about this topic. And that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1825.14,"endTime":1826.67,"body":"was a huge step."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1827.39,"endTime":1830.03,"body":"A good leader can really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1827.39,"endTime":1830.03,"body":"get this conversation started in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1830.03,"endTime":1830.6,"body":"a big way."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1830.75,"endTime":1834.56,"body":"Yeah. So I know in"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1830.75,"endTime":1834.56,"body":"our stake, several words have"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1834.56,"endTime":1837.83,"body":"had this exact same"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1834.56,"endTime":1837.83,"body":"conversation. It's not a topic"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1837.83,"endTime":1841.94,"body":"that's taboo, we can talk about"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1837.83,"endTime":1841.94,"body":"it at stake meetings and in, in"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1841.94,"endTime":1846.11,"body":"ward meetings, it's it's okay to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1841.94,"endTime":1846.11,"body":"talk about. And I think, for the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1846.11,"endTime":1850.61,"body":"most part, every, every member"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1846.11,"endTime":1850.61,"body":"of the LGBTQ community, and our"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1850.61,"endTime":1855.98,"body":"stake knows that if they want to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1850.61,"endTime":1855.98,"body":"be a part of us, then there's a"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1855.98,"endTime":1859.79,"body":"place for them and they are"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1855.98,"endTime":1859.79,"body":"loved. I think they also know if"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1859.79,"endTime":1863.24,"body":"they don't want that, they're"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1859.79,"endTime":1863.24,"body":"still loved. They don't have to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1863.24,"endTime":1867.23,"body":"be active and involved with us"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1863.24,"endTime":1867.23,"body":"in order to be loved. They are"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1867.23,"endTime":1870.77,"body":"just loved because they're part"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1867.23,"endTime":1870.77,"body":"of God's family. And we're all"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1870.77,"endTime":1873.8,"body":"part of that. And that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1870.77,"endTime":1873.8,"body":"how we look at it. I mean, we,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1874.07,"endTime":1878.06,"body":"we want them to feel like"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1874.07,"endTime":1878.06,"body":"there's a place for them. And"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1878.06,"endTime":1881.09,"body":"that they we hope that being"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1878.06,"endTime":1881.09,"body":"around us will help them want to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1881.09,"endTime":1885.71,"body":"stay involved in the Gospel and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1881.09,"endTime":1885.71,"body":"involved in the church. But"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1885.92,"endTime":1889.73,"body":"that's not the basis of our"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1885.92,"endTime":1889.73,"body":"caring about them. That we care"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1889.73,"endTime":1892.7,"body":"about them no matter what. And"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1889.73,"endTime":1892.7,"body":"they're loved no matter what."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1893.59,"endTime":1896.86,"body":"I love that. Carl, that day"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1893.59,"endTime":1896.86,"body":"we met when we had dinner at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1896.86,"endTime":1899.68,"body":"your house, I invited you to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1896.86,"endTime":1899.68,"body":"write a guest post on my blog"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1899.68,"endTime":1903.61,"body":"about your journey, which you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1899.68,"endTime":1903.61,"body":"did, and I posted it on my blog."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1903.73,"endTime":1907.42,"body":"And it immediately got far more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1903.73,"endTime":1907.42,"body":"popular than my coming out post."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1907.57,"endTime":1910.21,"body":"Because your story just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1907.57,"endTime":1910.21,"body":"resonated with so many people of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1910.24,"endTime":1913.87,"body":"you know, here's someone who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1910.24,"endTime":1913.87,"body":"was, who was a leader in his"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1913.87,"endTime":1917.08,"body":"Ward, who was making sure that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1913.87,"endTime":1917.08,"body":"that he started a conversation"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1917.08,"endTime":1919.9,"body":"that that needs to be happening."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1917.08,"endTime":1919.9,"body":"And we can put that blog post in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1919.9,"endTime":1920.77,"body":"the show notes."},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1921.35,"endTime":1923.9,"body":"All right. Well,"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1921.35,"endTime":1923.9,"body":"thanks. Thanks for having me. It"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1923.9,"endTime":1927.95,"body":"was I really do--well, I guess"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1923.9,"endTime":1927.95,"body":"one thing I would say in"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1927.95,"endTime":1932.63,"body":"closing, is that during that"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1927.95,"endTime":1932.63,"body":"year when I was jumping in and"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1932.63,"endTime":1936.5,"body":"really trying to understand"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1932.63,"endTime":1936.5,"body":"this, I had my most significant"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1936.5,"endTime":1941.0,"body":"spiritual experiences in the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1936.5,"endTime":1941.0,"body":"presence of or studying about"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1941.03,"endTime":1946.01,"body":"this topic. So it brought me"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1941.03,"endTime":1946.01,"body":"closer to Christ. The the whole"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1946.01,"endTime":1949.07,"body":"topic brought me closer to"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1946.01,"endTime":1949.07,"body":"Christ. And I think I'm a better"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1949.07,"endTime":1952.49,"body":"person today because of that"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1949.07,"endTime":1952.49,"body":"effort, and because of the"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1952.52,"endTime":1954.47,"body":"spiritual experiences that came"},{"speaker":"Carl Hull","startTime":1952.52,"endTime":1954.47,"body":"to me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1955.52,"endTime":1957.71,"body":"Thank you for joining"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1955.52,"endTime":1957.71,"body":"us today. Please remember that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1957.71,"endTime":1959.9,"body":"we do not represent the Church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1957.71,"endTime":1959.9,"body":"of Jesus Christ of Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1959.9,"endTime":1962.72,"body":"Saints or Brigham Young"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1959.9,"endTime":1962.72,"body":"University. We are not trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1962.72,"endTime":1965.33,"body":"be prescriptive or tell anyone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1962.72,"endTime":1965.33,"body":"what to think or what to do."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1965.9,"endTime":1967.34,"body":"You heard three"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1965.9,"endTime":1967.34,"body":"perspectives, and there are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1967.34,"endTime":1970.82,"body":"many, many more, we encourage"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1967.34,"endTime":1970.82,"body":"you to listen to other voices,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1971.03,"endTime":1973.4,"body":"and to hear a wide variety of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1971.03,"endTime":1973.4,"body":"experiences. If you would like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1973.4,"endTime":1975.86,"body":"to submit a question or share a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1973.4,"endTime":1975.86,"body":"comment about today's episode,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1975.86,"endTime":1978.77,"body":"you can email us at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1975.86,"endTime":1978.77,"body":"questionsfromthecloset@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1979.16,"endTime":1980.06,"body":"Until next time..."}]}