{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.73,"endTime":8.31,"body":"Welcome to Questions"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.73,"endTime":8.31,"body":"from the Closet. I'm Charlie"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":8.31,"endTime":8.73,"body":"bird."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.79,"endTime":11.67,"body":"And I'm Ben Schilaty. Each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.79,"endTime":11.67,"body":"episode we discuss a question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":11.67,"endTime":14.58,"body":"that we commonly get asked as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":11.67,"endTime":14.58,"body":"LGBTQ Latter-day Saints."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":14.88,"endTime":16.95,"body":"We are not trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":14.88,"endTime":16.95,"body":"answer this question or come to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":16.95,"endTime":19.56,"body":"a consensus but simply sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":16.95,"endTime":19.56,"body":"our perspectives."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":20.07,"endTime":22.95,"body":"Today's question is, should"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":20.07,"endTime":22.95,"body":"I stay single and celibate?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":23.62,"endTime":25.75,"body":"Ben and I are not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":23.62,"endTime":25.75,"body":"terribly diverse, and we share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":25.75,"endTime":28.81,"body":"many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":25.75,"endTime":28.81,"body":"experiences. For example, we are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":28.81,"endTime":30.13,"body":"both currently single."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":30.37,"endTime":32.44,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":30.37,"endTime":32.44,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":32.44,"endTime":35.71,"body":"example, I have been single for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":32.44,"endTime":35.71,"body":"a lot longer. I don't know when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":35.71,"endTime":39.34,"body":"your last date was. My last date"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":35.71,"endTime":39.34,"body":"was February 14, 2015."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":39.58,"endTime":42.04,"body":"2015. So that's over"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":39.58,"endTime":42.04,"body":"five years."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":42.07,"endTime":43.15,"body":"It's been a long time."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":43.42,"endTime":44.65,"body":"He's a single man,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":43.42,"endTime":44.65,"body":"folks."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":44.65,"endTime":46.63,"body":"I gotta tell you, though,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":44.65,"endTime":46.63,"body":"I've never been hotter because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":46.63,"endTime":49.87,"body":"no one is more attractive to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":46.63,"endTime":49.87,"body":"someone than wait..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":50.32,"endTime":51.19,"body":"He's hard to get."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":52.78,"endTime":54.76,"body":"I'm unattainable and I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":52.78,"endTime":54.76,"body":"actually more attractive."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":55.63,"endTime":58.21,"body":"So on our show, we do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":55.63,"endTime":58.21,"body":"our best to provide a variety of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":58.21,"endTime":60.97,"body":"voices and perspectives. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":58.21,"endTime":60.97,"body":"today's episode is a little bit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":60.97,"endTime":63.07,"body":"different and it's just going to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":60.97,"endTime":63.07,"body":"be me and Ben."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":63.24,"endTime":65.7,"body":"Yeah, as Charlie and I were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":63.24,"endTime":65.7,"body":"considering who to have on this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":65.7,"endTime":70.05,"body":"episode, we kind of felt that a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":65.7,"endTime":70.05,"body":"lot of people in the past have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":70.05,"endTime":73.17,"body":"said that they like set a life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":70.05,"endTime":73.17,"body":"plan for themselves that this is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":73.17,"endTime":76.02,"body":"what I'm going to do and an end"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":73.17,"endTime":76.02,"body":"up changing that life course. We"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":76.02,"endTime":78.03,"body":"don't want to put someone in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":76.02,"endTime":78.03,"body":"position where they're going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":78.03,"endTime":79.98,"body":"say, \"Well, this is what my life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":78.03,"endTime":79.98,"body":"is gonna look like. And this is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.98,"endTime":83.1,"body":"what I'm going to do.\" And then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.98,"endTime":83.1,"body":"change their mind and feel like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":83.1,"endTime":85.56,"body":"they're kind of locked into"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":83.1,"endTime":85.56,"body":"that. And we realize with all of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":85.56,"endTime":88.35,"body":"our episodes, that's possible."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":85.56,"endTime":88.35,"body":"But we just felt like with this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":88.35,"endTime":90.84,"body":"episode, in particular, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":88.35,"endTime":90.84,"body":"didn't want to put anyone in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":90.84,"endTime":92.73,"body":"position to have to say, \"This"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":90.84,"endTime":92.73,"body":"is what my life is gonna look"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":92.73,"endTime":94.35,"body":"like\" when it might not always"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":92.73,"endTime":94.35,"body":"look that way."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":94.56,"endTime":96.51,"body":"Yeah, and I think on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":94.56,"endTime":96.51,"body":"top of that, most people in this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":96.51,"endTime":100.95,"body":"space are still closeted, and so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":96.51,"endTime":100.95,"body":"not really open to kind of being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":100.95,"endTime":103.92,"body":"on something like this and being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":100.95,"endTime":103.92,"body":"public. So, so we just figured"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":103.92,"endTime":107.79,"body":"it'd be best if we just kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":103.92,"endTime":107.79,"body":"did this ourselves. And we hope"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":107.79,"endTime":111.36,"body":"you don't get sick of us. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":107.79,"endTime":111.36,"body":"here we are. So Ben, to start"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":111.36,"endTime":113.94,"body":"off, how do you feel about this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":111.36,"endTime":113.94,"body":"term celibate?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":114.08,"endTime":117.62,"body":"I don't care for it,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":114.08,"endTime":117.62,"body":"because I feel like if people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":117.62,"endTime":121.52,"body":"see me as celibate, they're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":117.62,"endTime":121.52,"body":"seeing me as not having sex. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":121.55,"endTime":124.61,"body":"I don't like to be viewed based"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":121.55,"endTime":124.61,"body":"on whether or not I'm having"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":124.61,"endTime":129.41,"body":"sex. And I had this moment, when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":124.61,"endTime":129.41,"body":"I was home for Christmas a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":129.41,"endTime":131.45,"body":"couple years ago, I might have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":129.41,"endTime":131.45,"body":"mentioned this before, but my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":131.48,"endTime":134.99,"body":"mom has Alzheimer's. I was home"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":131.48,"endTime":134.99,"body":"for Christmas and, and she had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":134.99,"endTime":138.56,"body":"changed a lot, like she'd really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":134.99,"endTime":138.56,"body":"declined significantly. And I'd"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":138.56,"endTime":141.14,"body":"been gone for a couple months. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":138.56,"endTime":141.14,"body":"just remember talking to her,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":141.14,"endTime":143.96,"body":"just realizing she was different"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":141.14,"endTime":143.96,"body":"then going into my room and just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":143.96,"endTime":148.58,"body":"feeling like, so sad and so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":143.96,"endTime":148.58,"body":"lonely. And so just wishing that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":148.58,"endTime":151.25,"body":"I had a partner to share that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":148.58,"endTime":151.25,"body":"moment with. Like, I just wished"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":151.25,"endTime":154.22,"body":"I had someone to just like, hold"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":151.25,"endTime":154.22,"body":"me and tell me it was going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":154.22,"endTime":157.37,"body":"be okay. And the closest thing I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":154.22,"endTime":157.37,"body":"had was my sister. So I called"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":157.37,"endTime":160.97,"body":"my sister and we talked through"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":157.37,"endTime":160.97,"body":"it instead. But I feel like when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":160.97,"endTime":164.03,"body":"people look at my life as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":160.97,"endTime":164.03,"body":"celibate and saying, well, Ben,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":164.06,"endTime":168.26,"body":"you're not having sex like that,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":164.06,"endTime":168.26,"body":"really, to me, is really..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":168.35,"endTime":169.28,"body":"What's the word I'm looking for?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":169.7,"endTime":170.6,"body":"Dismissive?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":170.75,"endTime":174.05,"body":"Yes. That's the word. It's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":170.75,"endTime":174.05,"body":"really dismissive of what I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":174.08,"endTime":177.17,"body":"don't have. Like, what I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":174.08,"endTime":177.17,"body":"have isn't sex. What I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":177.17,"endTime":180.26,"body":"have is a partner. And that is a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":177.17,"endTime":180.26,"body":"very different situation."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":180.38,"endTime":182.63,"body":"I think you make a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":180.38,"endTime":182.63,"body":"really good point. I also really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":182.63,"endTime":184.85,"body":"don't care for this term for a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":182.63,"endTime":184.85,"body":"number of reasons, but one of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":184.85,"endTime":189.14,"body":"them is because gay is not equal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":184.85,"endTime":189.14,"body":"to sex. Right? The experience of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":189.14,"endTime":192.47,"body":"being gay is obviously like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":189.14,"endTime":192.47,"body":"sexual attraction and intimacy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":192.47,"endTime":195.17,"body":"is part of it but there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":192.47,"endTime":195.17,"body":"companionship, there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":195.17,"endTime":197.99,"body":"compatibility, there's emotional"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":195.17,"endTime":197.99,"body":"and mental and spiritual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":197.99,"endTime":201.29,"body":"attraction. And there's so many"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":197.99,"endTime":201.29,"body":"things that make up a sexual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":201.29,"endTime":205.73,"body":"orientation. And when we just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":201.29,"endTime":205.73,"body":"reduce it down to sex, it gets,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":205.79,"endTime":209.39,"body":"like you said, dismissive, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":205.79,"endTime":209.39,"body":"it kind of like, takes away a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":209.39,"endTime":211.76,"body":"humanness to a human."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":211.85,"endTime":215.99,"body":"Or at least a complete"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":211.85,"endTime":215.99,"body":"human because having sex, sexual"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":215.99,"endTime":217.4,"body":"relations is part of being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":215.99,"endTime":217.4,"body":"human."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":217.51,"endTime":220.36,"body":"Right. Right. But like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":217.51,"endTime":220.36,"body":"you said, it dismisses part of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":220.36,"endTime":223.63,"body":"you. I've, I always say that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":220.36,"endTime":223.63,"body":"don't want to be like reduced to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":223.63,"endTime":227.23,"body":"sex. Right. And I think using"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":223.63,"endTime":227.23,"body":"this term, celibacy puts a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":227.23,"endTime":230.77,"body":"of emphasis, like you said, on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":227.23,"endTime":230.77,"body":"sex. But I've noticed that when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":230.77,"endTime":234.76,"body":"people say they're celibate,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":230.77,"endTime":234.76,"body":"other people seem to treat it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":234.76,"endTime":238.63,"body":"like it's like, you can like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":234.76,"endTime":238.63,"body":"turn yourself off like some sort"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":238.63,"endTime":243.7,"body":"of like robot or, or nun. Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":238.63,"endTime":243.7,"body":"like a robot that's been turned"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":243.73,"endTime":247.36,"body":"off, you know. And so, in fact,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":243.73,"endTime":247.36,"body":"honestly, Ben that's what I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":247.36,"endTime":250.06,"body":"thought about you for a long"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":247.36,"endTime":250.06,"body":"time, because it's true before I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":250.06,"endTime":253.36,"body":"really got to know you and who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":250.06,"endTime":253.36,"body":"you are. Like, I'd had a couple"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":253.36,"endTime":256.66,"body":"of interactions with you. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":253.36,"endTime":256.66,"body":"actually, can I just share the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":256.66,"endTime":260.23,"body":"story now about the first time"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":256.66,"endTime":260.23,"body":"we met? So the first time I met"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":260.23,"endTime":264.55,"body":"Ben, it was at an LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":260.23,"endTime":264.55,"body":"conference. And I was still not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":264.55,"endTime":267.01,"body":"really out. Like, I was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":264.55,"endTime":267.01,"body":"putting myself out there that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":267.01,"endTime":270.37,"body":"day. And I meet Ben, and we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":267.01,"endTime":270.37,"body":"in like this Expo Center, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":270.37,"endTime":274.24,"body":"he's looking at Y Mountain out,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":270.37,"endTime":274.24,"body":"out into the distance..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":274.24,"endTime":275.17,"body":"It was a gorgeous view."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":275.23,"endTime":277.63,"body":"Yeah, it was, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":275.23,"endTime":277.63,"body":"really pretty day. And we were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":277.63,"endTime":280.81,"body":"talking and he tells me that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":277.63,"endTime":280.81,"body":"he's a professor at BYU and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":280.81,"endTime":282.19,"body":"was like, Oh, that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":280.81,"endTime":282.19,"body":"interesting."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":282.0,"endTime":284.31,"body":"I was an adjunct professor"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":282.0,"endTime":284.31,"body":"but..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":284.94,"endTime":287.1,"body":"So, and then he's like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":284.94,"endTime":287.1,"body":"Hey, you know, we should go to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":287.1,"endTime":291.57,"body":"lunch sometime. And, and in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":287.1,"endTime":291.57,"body":"Ben's mind, he's like, here's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":291.57,"endTime":294.66,"body":"this like, struggling human who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":291.57,"endTime":294.66,"body":"is at BYU, who I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":294.66,"endTime":298.53,"body":"invite to lunch. But me I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":294.66,"endTime":298.53,"body":"like, Oh my gosh, this BYU"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":298.53,"endTime":303.12,"body":"professor is hitting on me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":298.53,"endTime":303.12,"body":"Like, I cannot believe he had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":303.12,"endTime":307.26,"body":"the nerve to ask me out on a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":303.12,"endTime":307.26,"body":"date. And I was like, \"Maybe."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":307.26,"endTime":310.95,"body":"Sure. I'm pretty busy.\" And it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":307.26,"endTime":310.95,"body":"just funny, but like, so I guess"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":310.95,"endTime":313.23,"body":"my first impression of you is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":310.95,"endTime":313.23,"body":"that you were into me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":313.41,"endTime":314.61,"body":"Please, you should be so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":313.41,"endTime":314.61,"body":"lucky."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":315.98,"endTime":319.04,"body":"But then, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":315.98,"endTime":319.04,"body":"got to know you more. And people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":319.07,"endTime":323.24,"body":"often like describe you as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":319.07,"endTime":323.24,"body":"single and celibate. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":323.24,"endTime":327.8,"body":"in my mind, Ben Schilaty was no"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":323.24,"endTime":327.8,"body":"longer a person Ben was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":328.01,"endTime":334.7,"body":"this unattainable life position"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":328.01,"endTime":334.7,"body":"of like, robotic asexualism. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":334.73,"endTime":338.36,"body":"that's kind of how I viewed you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":334.73,"endTime":338.36,"body":"I was like, \"How is he doing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":338.36,"endTime":341.03,"body":"this? I can't do that. I can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":338.36,"endTime":341.03,"body":"never get there.\" And I would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":341.03,"endTime":344.51,"body":"kind of judge myself based on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":341.03,"endTime":344.51,"body":"your celibacy level, thinking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":344.51,"endTime":348.62,"body":"that you had just found a way to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":344.51,"endTime":348.62,"body":"completely curb all of your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":348.62,"endTime":351.5,"body":"attractions and feelings, when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":348.62,"endTime":351.5,"body":"really that's just what like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":351.56,"endTime":354.59,"body":"this term had caused society or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":351.56,"endTime":354.59,"body":"other people to think."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":354.77,"endTime":354.98,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":354.98,"endTime":356.03,"body":"And it wasn't true at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":354.98,"endTime":356.03,"body":"all."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":356.15,"endTime":359.6,"body":"Yeah, I don't have an off"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":356.15,"endTime":359.6,"body":"switch. I haven't turned my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":359.63,"endTime":362.99,"body":"sexuality off. I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":359.63,"endTime":362.99,"body":"describe myself as asexual at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":362.99,"endTime":365.54,"body":"all, like I would say, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":362.99,"endTime":365.54,"body":"within the bell curve of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":365.54,"endTime":369.05,"body":"standard, like a, like the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":365.54,"endTime":369.05,"body":"average person's sexual feelings"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":369.14,"endTime":370.58,"body":"as I fall within the average."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":369.9,"endTime":371.52,"body":"Yeah, and it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":369.9,"endTime":371.52,"body":"interesting, because as we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":371.52,"endTime":374.79,"body":"talked about how being gay or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":371.52,"endTime":374.79,"body":"sexual attraction is so much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":374.79,"endTime":378.03,"body":"more than just sex, if you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":374.79,"endTime":378.03,"body":"turning off your whole sexual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":378.03,"endTime":382.92,"body":"attraction, and like labeling it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":378.03,"endTime":382.92,"body":"as sex thwarting that then at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":382.92,"endTime":386.7,"body":"least for me, I, I saw that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":382.92,"endTime":386.7,"body":"asn't able to really be myself,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":386.73,"endTime":391.08,"body":"ight? If I'm not honoring my ide"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":386.73,"endTime":391.08,"body":"tity, it was really affecting t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":391.08,"endTime":393.45,"body":"e way I was able to connec"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":391.08,"endTime":393.45,"body":"with people, just all dif"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":393.45,"endTime":396.9,"body":"erent facets of my personalit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":393.45,"endTime":396.9,"body":"that are affected by my orient"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":397.17,"endTime":400.2,"body":"tion were also being shut down."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":397.17,"endTime":400.2,"body":"And that's a really, really t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":400.2,"endTime":400.95,"body":"ugh way to l"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":402.0,"endTime":404.67,"body":"Yeah, definitely. But just,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":402.0,"endTime":404.67,"body":"just one more thought about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":404.67,"endTime":408.87,"body":"being celibate. I started to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":404.67,"endTime":408.87,"body":"dislike that term so much that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":408.87,"endTime":411.6,"body":"just stopped describing myself"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":408.87,"endTime":411.6,"body":"as celibate completely. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":411.6,"endTime":415.2,"body":"was at this gathering of LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":411.6,"endTime":415.2,"body":"Latter-day Saints, and this guy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":415.2,"endTime":418.11,"body":"came up to me who was dating"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":415.2,"endTime":418.11,"body":"and, and he said, \"So Ben,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":418.11,"endTime":420.36,"body":"you're single and celibate,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":418.11,"endTime":420.36,"body":"right?\" And I said, \"I am not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":420.36,"endTime":423.06,"body":"celibate.\" He was like, \"Oh.\" I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":420.36,"endTime":423.06,"body":"was like, \"Whoa, whoa, whoa. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":423.06,"endTime":425.34,"body":"mean, I'm not dating and I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":423.06,"endTime":425.34,"body":"seeking a relationship."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":426.66,"endTime":429.51,"body":"Yeah, but and again, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":426.66,"endTime":429.51,"body":"just made we should just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":429.51,"endTime":430.59,"body":"coin a new term."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":430.95,"endTime":431.85,"body":"Schilaty-ism."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":431.99,"endTime":437.93,"body":"No thanks. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":431.99,"endTime":437.93,"body":"Schilatist myself. Yeah, I just,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":437.96,"endTime":440.18,"body":"I think there's, there's things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":437.96,"endTime":440.18,"body":"that we need to unpack and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":440.18,"endTime":443.06,"body":"guess, just educate ourselves"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":440.18,"endTime":443.06,"body":"and understand that there's a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":443.06,"endTime":447.26,"body":"lot more to this than just not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":443.06,"endTime":447.26,"body":"having sex, right? And in our"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":447.32,"endTime":450.38,"body":"identities, and in our"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":447.32,"endTime":450.38,"body":"relationship with God, it should"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":450.38,"endTime":454.22,"body":"not be based on like, whether or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":450.38,"endTime":454.22,"body":"not we're having sex. You know?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":454.22,"endTime":456.86,"body":"I mean, there's there's so much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":454.22,"endTime":456.86,"body":"more to life. And it's really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":456.86,"endTime":460.34,"body":"hard for me, especially when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":456.86,"endTime":460.34,"body":"straight people and like members"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":460.34,"endTime":463.73,"body":"of our church community, throw"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":460.34,"endTime":463.73,"body":"that on me, like, thanks for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":463.73,"endTime":467.96,"body":"being celibate. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":463.73,"endTime":467.96,"body":"\"Ugggh, you're missing the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":467.96,"endTime":468.47,"body":"point.\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":468.5,"endTime":468.89,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":468.95,"endTime":469.52,"body":"You know."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":469.9,"endTime":471.94,"body":"The hard part for me about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":469.9,"endTime":471.94,"body":"being single isn't the fact that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":471.94,"endTime":474.49,"body":"I don't get to have sex. Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":471.94,"endTime":474.49,"body":"the hard part for me is like not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":474.49,"endTime":476.65,"body":"having a partner, like not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":474.49,"endTime":476.65,"body":"having someone to go through"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":476.65,"endTime":480.1,"body":"life with. And the few partners"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":476.65,"endTime":480.1,"body":"I have had like, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":480.1,"endTime":483.91,"body":"girlfriends, and one same sex"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":480.1,"endTime":483.91,"body":"romantic partner, they've made"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":483.91,"endTime":487.45,"body":"me like such a better person."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":483.91,"endTime":487.45,"body":"Like just being with them just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":487.45,"endTime":490.96,"body":"like, made me a better person."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":487.45,"endTime":490.96,"body":"And I just like loved being with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":490.96,"endTime":493.48,"body":"them. I loved just knowing that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":490.96,"endTime":493.48,"body":"there was someone who had my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":493.48,"endTime":496.12,"body":"back, was going to be there for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":493.48,"endTime":496.12,"body":"me, who was, you know, I wanted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":496.12,"endTime":499.15,"body":"to go do whatever they would go"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":496.12,"endTime":499.15,"body":"shopping, or go on a hike, or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":499.15,"endTime":501.34,"body":"whatever it was I wanted to do,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":499.15,"endTime":501.34,"body":"they would, they would be there"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":501.34,"endTime":504.52,"body":"with me. And I miss that. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":501.34,"endTime":504.52,"body":"that's not, that, that's the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":504.52,"endTime":506.65,"body":"thing I'm giving up. I'm giving"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":504.52,"endTime":506.65,"body":"up companionship."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":507.25,"endTime":509.65,"body":"It's sometimes really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":507.25,"endTime":509.65,"body":"disheartening to me, because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":509.65,"endTime":512.38,"body":"feel like the only way to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":509.65,"endTime":512.38,"body":"accepted in our church culture"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":512.59,"endTime":516.1,"body":"is if you are staying, quote,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":512.59,"endTime":516.1,"body":"unquote, single and celibate."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":516.46,"endTime":520.75,"body":"Right? People who have decided"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":516.46,"endTime":520.75,"body":"to take different life paths and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":520.87,"endTime":524.17,"body":"date people they are attracted"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":520.87,"endTime":524.17,"body":"too often are kind of like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":524.17,"endTime":526.72,"body":"marginalized and not really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":524.17,"endTime":526.72,"body":"taken seriously, right? It's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":526.72,"endTime":529.9,"body":"like, \"Oh, I'm gonna discount"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":526.72,"endTime":529.9,"body":"your opinion or your feelings or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":529.9,"endTime":532.15,"body":"your testimony now, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":529.9,"endTime":532.15,"body":"you're making a choice that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":532.15,"endTime":536.29,"body":"doesn't go along with the norm.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":532.15,"endTime":536.29,"body":"And that's really tough, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":536.29,"endTime":539.47,"body":"think. I don't know. I just, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":536.29,"endTime":539.47,"body":"glad we're talking about this,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":539.47,"endTime":542.2,"body":"honestly. Because there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":539.47,"endTime":542.2,"body":"there's no cut and dried"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":542.23,"endTime":545.11,"body":"answers. But this is like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":542.23,"endTime":545.11,"body":"conversations that I didn't grow"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":545.11,"endTime":548.32,"body":"up hearing. You know, just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":545.11,"endTime":548.32,"body":"even this, this baseline fact of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":548.32,"endTime":552.04,"body":"sexual attraction is more than"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":548.32,"endTime":552.04,"body":"sex. Like, that's not how I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":552.04,"endTime":555.16,"body":"raised or grew up. I'm glad we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":552.04,"endTime":555.16,"body":"can talk about this."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":555.63,"endTime":557.97,"body":"One thing people ask me all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":555.63,"endTime":557.97,"body":"the time is the people who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":558.0,"endTime":560.58,"body":"realize that they don't think a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":558.0,"endTime":560.58,"body":"relationship with the opposite"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":560.58,"endTime":562.56,"body":"sex partner can work so they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":560.58,"endTime":562.56,"body":"decided they're gonna stay in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":562.56,"endTime":564.81,"body":"the church, they have to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":562.56,"endTime":564.81,"body":"single. Like, well, how do you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":564.84,"endTime":567.24,"body":"deal with the fact you're going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":564.84,"endTime":567.24,"body":"to be lonely forever? Like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":567.24,"endTime":568.71,"body":"get, I get asked all, I get"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":567.24,"endTime":568.71,"body":"asked this all the time like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":568.89,"endTime":571.08,"body":"\"How do you deal with being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":568.89,"endTime":571.08,"body":"like, the like, the forever"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":571.08,"endTime":573.72,"body":"loneliness?\" And honestly, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":571.08,"endTime":573.72,"body":"I'm not gonna say that being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":573.72,"endTime":576.6,"body":"single is easy at all. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":573.72,"endTime":576.6,"body":"think I'm one of the least"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":576.6,"endTime":580.56,"body":"lonely people I know. Like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":576.6,"endTime":580.56,"body":"feel like I have a wide breadth"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":580.56,"endTime":583.62,"body":"of relationships, like just tons"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":580.56,"endTime":583.62,"body":"of people who love me and care"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":583.62,"endTime":586.92,"body":"about me. And I'm really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":583.62,"endTime":586.92,"body":"extroverted. And I'm just very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":586.92,"endTime":589.74,"body":"rarely alone. Like I'm always"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":586.92,"endTime":589.74,"body":"with people. I feel very loved"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":589.74,"endTime":592.47,"body":"and very connected. Who I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":589.74,"endTime":592.47,"body":"have is that really one deep"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":592.47,"endTime":596.76,"body":"relationship. And so, and that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":592.47,"endTime":596.76,"body":"a different experience. But like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":596.76,"endTime":599.94,"body":"I don't really like I very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":596.76,"endTime":599.94,"body":"rarely feel lonely because I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":599.94,"endTime":602.55,"body":"just have so many good people in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":599.94,"endTime":602.55,"body":"my life and so many good things"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":602.55,"endTime":606.0,"body":"going on. And so when, when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":602.55,"endTime":606.0,"body":"people ask me that, I say,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":606.3,"endTime":608.46,"body":"\"Well, you know, how are you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":606.3,"endTime":608.46,"body":"going to make a life worth"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":608.46,"endTime":611.55,"body":"living?\" The truth is that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":608.46,"endTime":611.55,"body":"marriage dosn't fix anything. As"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":611.55,"endTime":615.24,"body":"I've, as I've grown and matured"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":611.55,"endTime":615.24,"body":"and seen relationships of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":615.24,"endTime":619.38,"body":"friends and, and as a therapist"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":615.24,"endTime":619.38,"body":"talking to a lot of married"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":619.38,"endTime":622.38,"body":"couples, a lot of people in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":619.38,"endTime":622.38,"body":"marriages are very lonely and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":622.38,"endTime":625.8,"body":"sad. And being married doesn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":622.38,"endTime":625.8,"body":"mean that you're not going to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":625.8,"endTime":626.28,"body":"lonely."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":627.02,"endTime":629.93,"body":"I'm also asked that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":627.02,"endTime":629.93,"body":"question pretty frequently. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":630.05,"endTime":632.84,"body":"I don't know I, I try to not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":630.05,"endTime":632.84,"body":"take a stance on what my life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":632.84,"endTime":635.42,"body":"gonna look like in the future."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":632.84,"endTime":635.42,"body":"My life changes a lot. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":635.42,"endTime":638.48,"body":"just have decided that I'm going"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":635.42,"endTime":638.48,"body":"to check in with God always and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":638.48,"endTime":641.84,"body":"live, how I feel called to live."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":638.48,"endTime":641.84,"body":"Like that's my mantra. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":641.87,"endTime":645.5,"body":"take things one day at a time."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":641.87,"endTime":645.5,"body":"And part of the reason for that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":645.5,"endTime":649.1,"body":"is because when I was looking at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":645.5,"endTime":649.1,"body":"my life in big picture terms, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":649.1,"endTime":652.88,"body":"led me to feel really, really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":649.1,"endTime":652.88,"body":"anxious and depressed. And it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":652.88,"endTime":657.92,"body":"distanced me from having a hope"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":652.88,"endTime":657.92,"body":"in Christ. So when, and like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":657.92,"endTime":660.86,"body":"really tried to peg myself under"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":657.92,"endTime":660.86,"body":"this, like single and celibate"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":660.86,"endTime":664.31,"body":"label for a long time. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":660.86,"endTime":664.31,"body":"like, I'm going to be stalwart"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":664.55,"endTime":669.2,"body":"and true, and try and just be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":664.55,"endTime":669.2,"body":"celibate, til death, you know?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":669.68,"endTime":673.97,"body":"And, as I was living with that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":669.68,"endTime":673.97,"body":"it made my life feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":673.97,"endTime":678.47,"body":"something that, something to get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":673.97,"endTime":678.47,"body":"over. Something that I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":678.47,"endTime":681.14,"body":"be finished immediately, rather"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":678.47,"endTime":681.14,"body":"than something to be lived and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":681.14,"endTime":685.34,"body":"enjoyed. And like superimposing,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":681.14,"endTime":685.34,"body":"this, like, huge, big picture"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":685.34,"endTime":689.75,"body":"thing onto me, really stressed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":685.34,"endTime":689.75,"body":"me out every single day. I see"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":689.75,"endTime":692.99,"body":"that happen a lot of times with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":689.75,"endTime":692.99,"body":"people who are using these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":692.99,"endTime":695.63,"body":"terms, single and celibate, to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":692.99,"endTime":695.63,"body":"like, describe their, their life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":695.63,"endTime":698.45,"body":"path. Because like, all of these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":695.63,"endTime":698.45,"body":"things come together and you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":698.45,"endTime":701.87,"body":"discount part of you. And at the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":698.45,"endTime":701.87,"body":"same time, you're you're putting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":701.87,"endTime":705.41,"body":"these like massive expectations"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":701.87,"endTime":705.41,"body":"on yourself. That, that really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":705.41,"endTime":708.5,"body":"today you don't really need to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":705.41,"endTime":708.5,"body":"worry about as much. Does that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":708.5,"endTime":708.95,"body":"make sense?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":708.96,"endTime":711.99,"body":"Yeah definitely. You know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":708.96,"endTime":711.99,"body":"I remember I had this one moment"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":711.99,"endTime":714.69,"body":"where I, two of my very best"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":711.99,"endTime":714.69,"body":"friends are Kevin and Allison,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":714.69,"endTime":716.82,"body":"they live in Tucson. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":714.69,"endTime":716.82,"body":"introduced them to each other."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":717.15,"endTime":719.46,"body":"And I remember as they were,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":717.15,"endTime":719.46,"body":"like, falling in love and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":719.46,"endTime":722.61,"body":"getting engaged, this one night,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":719.46,"endTime":722.61,"body":"just like overhearing them, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":722.64,"endTime":725.94,"body":"chat and fall in love. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":722.64,"endTime":725.94,"body":"just remember thinking, \"All my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":725.94,"endTime":727.62,"body":"friends gonna leave me alone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":725.94,"endTime":727.62,"body":"forever.\" Like, I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":727.62,"endTime":730.14,"body":"constantly left behind. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":727.62,"endTime":730.14,"body":"remember writing my journal that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":730.14,"endTime":733.95,"body":"night, just like, feeling really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":730.14,"endTime":733.95,"body":"sorry for myself. And then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":733.95,"endTime":736.32,"body":"writing, I know that five years"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":733.95,"endTime":736.32,"body":"from now, I'll be over this, but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":736.32,"endTime":739.98,"body":"right now, it really sucks. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":736.32,"endTime":739.98,"body":"five years later, I was living"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":739.98,"endTime":743.1,"body":"my very best life. You know, it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":739.98,"endTime":743.1,"body":"was true, but sometimes, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":743.1,"endTime":746.7,"body":"it's okay to just, it's okay to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":743.1,"endTime":746.7,"body":"sometimes look at the future and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":746.7,"endTime":749.91,"body":"just, like feel overwhelmed and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":746.7,"endTime":749.91,"body":"sad, and feel despondent, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":749.94,"endTime":753.66,"body":"that's going to happen. But as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":749.94,"endTime":753.66,"body":"I've looked back on my life, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":753.72,"endTime":756.18,"body":"I've got more life experience"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":753.72,"endTime":756.18,"body":"than you, but I'm still pretty"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":756.18,"endTime":759.36,"body":"young at 36, life has a way of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":756.18,"endTime":759.36,"body":"working out in really beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":759.36,"endTime":762.63,"body":"unexpected ways. And I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":759.36,"endTime":762.63,"body":"learned that if you would have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":762.63,"endTime":765.6,"body":"told 26 year old Ben that I'd be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":762.63,"endTime":765.6,"body":"where I am doing what I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":765.6,"endTime":767.85,"body":"at 36 I would have thought you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":765.6,"endTime":767.85,"body":"were absolutely crazy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":767.94,"endTime":768.3,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":768.0,"endTime":771.21,"body":"And I love my life. And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":768.0,"endTime":771.21,"body":"when I try and pitch my life at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":771.21,"endTime":775.35,"body":"46 or 56 or 66, like there is no"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":771.21,"endTime":775.35,"body":"way I can even envision what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":775.35,"endTime":778.95,"body":"that life will look like. And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":775.35,"endTime":778.95,"body":"I try to just trust that, as I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":778.95,"endTime":781.8,"body":"do my best to follow God's will"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":778.95,"endTime":781.8,"body":"that he will lead me to a life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":781.8,"endTime":784.11,"body":"that's more beautiful, and, then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":781.8,"endTime":784.11,"body":"I can imagine."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":784.62,"endTime":787.05,"body":"Yeah, that's beautiful."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":784.62,"endTime":787.05,"body":"And I completely agree. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":787.05,"endTime":790.38,"body":"resonate. Ben, as you're single,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":787.05,"endTime":790.38,"body":"how do you honor your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":790.38,"endTime":791.13,"body":"orientation?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":791.31,"endTime":795.12,"body":"I like to make jokes. So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":791.31,"endTime":795.12,"body":"like Siri always tells me to go"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":795.12,"endTime":797.37,"body":"straight, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":795.12,"endTime":797.37,"body":"heteronormative and very rude of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":797.37,"endTime":798.21,"body":"Siri to tell me that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":798.27,"endTime":798.78,"body":"Amen."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":798.84,"endTime":801.54,"body":"Actually my Siri is a man"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":798.84,"endTime":801.54,"body":"voice and I call him \"Serious\"."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":804.99,"endTime":807.72,"body":"But also, you know, I talk about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":804.99,"endTime":807.72,"body":"people that I like and people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":807.72,"endTime":810.81,"body":"that I have crushes on. And if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":807.72,"endTime":810.81,"body":"there's a TV show, like with a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":810.81,"endTime":814.29,"body":"male protagonist, I think is is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":810.81,"endTime":814.29,"body":"intriguing I'll talk about that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":814.35,"endTime":819.51,"body":"So I don't hide my attractions."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":814.35,"endTime":819.51,"body":"And when it's organic and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":819.51,"endTime":822.69,"body":"natural, I talk about being gay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":819.51,"endTime":822.69,"body":"And that comes up regularly. So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":822.69,"endTime":824.16,"body":"that's one of the ways I do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":822.69,"endTime":824.16,"body":"that. How do you do it?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":824.75,"endTime":826.55,"body":"Pretty much the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":824.75,"endTime":826.55,"body":"way. I remember one time I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":826.55,"endTime":829.55,"body":"talking to a friend. And she was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":826.55,"endTime":829.55,"body":"like, \"What do you do when you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":829.55,"endTime":831.89,"body":"see an attractive guy on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":829.55,"endTime":831.89,"body":"campus?\" I was still at BYU at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":831.89,"endTime":835.76,"body":"the time. And I was like, \"I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":831.89,"endTime":835.76,"body":"look away and I freak out. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":835.76,"endTime":838.67,"body":"hate myself. And I tell myself"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":835.76,"endTime":838.67,"body":"that I'm bad.\" And she was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":839.06,"endTime":843.38,"body":"\"Oh.\" You know, like, \"Oh, oh.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":839.06,"endTime":843.38,"body":"And she was like, \"Well, why"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":843.38,"endTime":846.47,"body":"don't you just accept that you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":843.38,"endTime":846.47,"body":"find a person attractive and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":846.47,"endTime":850.34,"body":"then like, move on.\" And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":846.47,"endTime":850.34,"body":"like, you know, maybe I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":850.34,"endTime":854.03,"body":"try it. So the next time I saw"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":850.34,"endTime":854.03,"body":"an attractive man on campus, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":854.03,"endTime":857.21,"body":"was like, \"Wow, that's a really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":854.03,"endTime":857.21,"body":"good looking person.\" And then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":857.24,"endTime":860.21,"body":"kept walking and I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":857.24,"endTime":860.21,"body":"what's gonna happen? And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":860.21,"endTime":863.57,"body":"like, \"Oh, it's just chill."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":860.21,"endTime":863.57,"body":"Like, it's normal.\" And so like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":863.57,"endTime":869.96,"body":"I've normalized the fact that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":863.57,"endTime":869.96,"body":"am human. You know? Like, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":869.96,"endTime":872.48,"body":"like, it was okay for me to just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":869.96,"endTime":872.48,"body":"be like, \"Oh, that's an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":872.48,"endTime":875.81,"body":"attractive person. I'm attracted"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":872.48,"endTime":875.81,"body":"to that person. I'm going to go"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":875.81,"endTime":879.71,"body":"on with my day.\" You know? And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":875.81,"endTime":879.71,"body":"that was just a less rigid way"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":879.71,"endTime":883.67,"body":"to look at it. And it is just so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":879.71,"endTime":883.67,"body":"much easier. If a girl is like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":883.76,"endTime":885.59,"body":"\"Oh, I'm dating this guy.\" I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":883.76,"endTime":885.59,"body":"like, \"Show me a picture.\" I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":885.59,"endTime":888.29,"body":"like, \"Oh, he's really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":885.59,"endTime":888.29,"body":"attractive.\" Like, \"Dang girl!"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":888.29,"endTime":891.77,"body":"Good job. He's a beautiful man.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":888.29,"endTime":891.77,"body":"You know? And it just feels"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":891.77,"endTime":894.11,"body":"natural and normal. And, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":894.44,"endTime":896.51,"body":"Charlie, what's it like for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":894.44,"endTime":896.51,"body":"you when you have friends who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":896.51,"endTime":897.11,"body":"get married?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":897.57,"endTime":901.41,"body":"It's really hard. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":897.57,"endTime":901.41,"body":"it's, it's, it's complex,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":901.83,"endTime":905.43,"body":"because, well, you know, I'll"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":901.83,"endTime":905.43,"body":"just share an experience I, my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":905.43,"endTime":907.74,"body":"best friend growing up, we've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":905.43,"endTime":907.74,"body":"known each other since we were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":907.74,"endTime":910.56,"body":"like nine years old. And we were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":907.74,"endTime":910.56,"body":"some of the only members of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":910.56,"endTime":913.11,"body":"Church in my area where I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":910.56,"endTime":913.11,"body":"from. And so we just kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":913.11,"endTime":916.74,"body":"like stuck together. Our lives"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":913.11,"endTime":916.74,"body":"have all happened at the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":916.74,"endTime":919.29,"body":"time we came to BYU at the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":916.74,"endTime":919.29,"body":"time, we were roommates, we went"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":919.29,"endTime":921.75,"body":"on a missions basically the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":919.29,"endTime":921.75,"body":"day, we don't back at the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":921.75,"endTime":926.07,"body":"time, like everything in our"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":921.75,"endTime":926.07,"body":"life is just, has been so like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":926.16,"endTime":930.51,"body":"parallel. A couple years ago, he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":926.16,"endTime":930.51,"body":"got married. And I was the best"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":930.51,"endTime":933.03,"body":"man. I was super excited. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":930.51,"endTime":933.03,"body":"threw like a bomb bachelor"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":933.03,"endTime":936.96,"body":"party. We had so much fun. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":933.03,"endTime":936.96,"body":"like threw the wife's veil and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":936.96,"endTime":939.66,"body":"the pictures, you know, helped"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":936.96,"endTime":939.66,"body":"arrange the flowers, you know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":939.66,"endTime":942.63,"body":"like, I was great at the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":939.66,"endTime":942.63,"body":"wedding. I'm good at that stuff."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":942.0,"endTime":944.01,"body":"It's nice having a gay best"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":942.0,"endTime":944.01,"body":"friend help out."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":944.1,"endTime":945.69,"body":"It is. Um.."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":945.75,"endTime":947.94,"body":"Except for me. I don't care"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":945.75,"endTime":947.94,"body":"for any of that stuff."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":947.94,"endTime":951.72,"body":"Ben's not a design gay."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":947.94,"endTime":951.72,"body":"But should I edit that out? Was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":951.72,"endTime":952.17,"body":"that mean?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":952.2,"endTime":953.88,"body":"No, it's true. I'm not a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":952.2,"endTime":953.88,"body":"design gay."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":954.53,"endTime":957.41,"body":"Anyway, so I'm there in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":954.53,"endTime":957.41,"body":"the, in the Celestial Room for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":957.41,"endTime":960.74,"body":"their sealing, and I was so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":957.41,"endTime":960.74,"body":"happy for them. You know, I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":960.74,"endTime":965.12,"body":"like, wow, this person that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":960.74,"endTime":965.12,"body":"love, found this person that he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":965.12,"endTime":968.27,"body":"loves, and they get to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":965.12,"endTime":968.27,"body":"together. And it was beautiful."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":968.27,"endTime":970.64,"body":"And I was really happy to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":968.27,"endTime":970.64,"body":"there in the temple with them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":971.48,"endTime":976.55,"body":"And I didn't expect this. But as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":971.48,"endTime":976.55,"body":"they were going through, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":976.55,"endTime":982.25,"body":"their vows in the ceremony, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":976.55,"endTime":982.25,"body":"was just struck with this, this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":982.25,"endTime":986.18,"body":"intense layer of sadness. And it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":982.25,"endTime":986.18,"body":"was really weird, because,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":986.21,"endTime":988.85,"body":"because I was really happy for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":986.21,"endTime":988.85,"body":"him. Like, I love him. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":988.85,"endTime":992.36,"body":"so grateful that he found this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":988.85,"endTime":992.36,"body":"wonderful girl. But it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":992.36,"endTime":998.3,"body":"really hard to watch him achieve"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":992.36,"endTime":998.3,"body":"this thing that I want, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":998.3,"endTime":1003.82,"body":"know, to have a marriage with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":998.3,"endTime":1003.82,"body":"someone I love and to commit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1003.82,"endTime":1007.45,"body":"yourself, like wholly and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1003.82,"endTime":1007.45,"body":"entirely to this other person"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1007.45,"endTime":1012.34,"body":"and to, to have it be blessed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1007.45,"endTime":1012.34,"body":"by, by the Spirit and by the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1012.34,"endTime":1018.67,"body":"church. And I left and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1012.34,"endTime":1018.67,"body":"really broken. I was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1018.67,"endTime":1023.41,"body":"hurt. And, and honestly, it was,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1018.67,"endTime":1023.41,"body":"you know, I, if I'm being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1023.41,"endTime":1026.02,"body":"completely honest, I used to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1023.41,"endTime":1026.02,"body":"judge people a lot for leaving"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1026.02,"endTime":1031.57,"body":"the church. Or for, I see a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1026.02,"endTime":1031.57,"body":"of LGBTQ individuals that seem"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1031.57,"endTime":1035.86,"body":"to try to like, numb themselves"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1031.57,"endTime":1035.86,"body":"of their feelings with different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1035.86,"endTime":1039.1,"body":"coping mechanisms. And I never"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1035.86,"endTime":1039.1,"body":"really understood that until"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1039.1,"endTime":1042.88,"body":"that moment, when I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1039.1,"endTime":1042.88,"body":"completely worthy, really on my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1042.91,"endTime":1047.35,"body":"\"A\" game, right, spiritually."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1042.91,"endTime":1047.35,"body":"And I left the temple after this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1047.35,"endTime":1051.55,"body":"beautiful experience with my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1047.35,"endTime":1051.55,"body":"best friend. And I thought, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1051.55,"endTime":1056.98,"body":"want to numb myself to this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1051.55,"endTime":1056.98,"body":"pain, because it was so hard to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1056.98,"endTime":1060.55,"body":"watch like the consummation of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1056.98,"endTime":1060.55,"body":"everything I wanted, in this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1060.55,"endTime":1063.73,"body":"beautiful spiritual ceremony"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1060.55,"endTime":1063.73,"body":"that I can't have."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1063.85,"endTime":1064.3,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1064.81,"endTime":1067.36,"body":"It was tough. And like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1064.81,"endTime":1067.36,"body":"for the first time I understood."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1067.39,"endTime":1071.5,"body":"I got, I was like, it's so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1067.39,"endTime":1071.5,"body":"painful to be a member of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1071.5,"endTime":1075.79,"body":"church. And I don't know, where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1071.5,"endTime":1075.79,"body":"should we go with this? That's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1075.79,"endTime":1077.47,"body":"just an experience that I just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1075.79,"endTime":1077.47,"body":"shared."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1077.56,"endTime":1077.95,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1077.98,"endTime":1078.76,"body":"Now I'm sad."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1080.26,"endTime":1083.38,"body":"Charlie, that is a sad"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1080.26,"endTime":1083.38,"body":"experience. It's a hard thing to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1083.44,"endTime":1087.61,"body":"experience to just see people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1083.44,"endTime":1087.61,"body":"move on and to have something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1087.61,"endTime":1090.64,"body":"that you don't get to have."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1087.61,"endTime":1090.64,"body":"Like, that is a painful thing."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1091.23,"endTime":1093.33,"body":"I guess part of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1091.23,"endTime":1093.33,"body":"reason I share that is because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1093.33,"endTime":1097.35,"body":"hope that members of the church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1093.33,"endTime":1097.35,"body":"stop judging other LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1097.35,"endTime":1100.05,"body":"individuals for their life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1097.35,"endTime":1100.05,"body":"choices, because it's so much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1100.05,"endTime":1103.56,"body":"more complex than just meets the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1100.05,"endTime":1103.56,"body":"eye. It's not just because, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1103.56,"endTime":1105.84,"body":"I want to go have sex. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1103.56,"endTime":1105.84,"body":"leaving the church and being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1105.84,"endTime":1110.52,"body":"with a with someone of the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1105.84,"endTime":1110.52,"body":"sex.\" But that's not, that's not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1110.52,"endTime":1113.19,"body":"it. And then, and then it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1110.52,"endTime":1113.19,"body":"also really shocking to me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1113.19,"endTime":1116.01,"body":"because I was the person who had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1113.19,"endTime":1116.01,"body":"been judging people who were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1116.01,"endTime":1119.82,"body":"leaving the church. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1116.01,"endTime":1119.82,"body":"just like, as I used to call it,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1119.82,"endTime":1123.3,"body":"like jumping off the deep end."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1119.82,"endTime":1123.3,"body":"But then I was like, it's what I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1123.3,"endTime":1125.52,"body":"wanted to do. You know what I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1123.3,"endTime":1125.52,"body":"mean? Because it was just, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1125.52,"endTime":1127.8,"body":"was hard. It was so hard to sit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1125.52,"endTime":1127.8,"body":"in that space."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1128.07,"endTime":1130.35,"body":"And this is, this is a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1128.07,"endTime":1130.35,"body":"complex and long story that I'll"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1130.35,"endTime":1132.81,"body":"share very briefly. But when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1130.35,"endTime":1132.81,"body":"was dating this guy, when I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1132.84,"endTime":1136.53,"body":"30, Jordan, he was on his way"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1132.84,"endTime":1136.53,"body":"out of the church, and I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1136.92,"endTime":1138.87,"body":"trying to stay in. He was trying"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1136.92,"endTime":1138.87,"body":"to pull me out. And I was trying"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1138.87,"endTime":1142.44,"body":"to keep him in. And that just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1138.87,"endTime":1142.44,"body":"didn't work. And eventually he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1142.47,"endTime":1144.93,"body":"ended things because it just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1142.47,"endTime":1144.93,"body":"wasn't gonna work. We wanted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1144.93,"endTime":1148.02,"body":"different things. We were going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1144.93,"endTime":1148.02,"body":"to live in different worlds. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1148.02,"endTime":1150.87,"body":"I changed my mind. And I said,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1148.02,"endTime":1150.87,"body":"\"I told him, I was going to pick"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1150.87,"endTime":1154.32,"body":"him over the church.\" Like I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1150.87,"endTime":1154.32,"body":"gonna choose to be with him. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1154.32,"endTime":1157.05,"body":"he being incredibly wise and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1154.32,"endTime":1157.05,"body":"kind said, \"Ben, I know you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1157.05,"endTime":1158.79,"body":"better than that. You'd choose"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1157.05,"endTime":1158.79,"body":"the church over me in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1158.79,"endTime":1162.15,"body":"future.\" And you know, if he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1158.79,"endTime":1162.15,"body":"said something different who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1162.15,"endTime":1165.87,"body":"knows where I'd be right now? I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1162.15,"endTime":1165.87,"body":"get really like, it really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1165.87,"endTime":1169.38,"body":"bothers me whenever someone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1165.87,"endTime":1169.38,"body":"says, \"Well, Ben is doing this,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1169.41,"endTime":1174.0,"body":"so you can do it.\" Like I am one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1169.41,"endTime":1174.0,"body":"Jordan's decision away from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1174.0,"endTime":1177.09,"body":"being out of the church. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1174.0,"endTime":1177.09,"body":"luckily, he loved me and cared"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1177.09,"endTime":1179.31,"body":"about me and knew me well enough"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1177.09,"endTime":1179.31,"body":"to help me make the decision"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1179.31,"endTime":1182.19,"body":"that I, that I could make right"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1179.31,"endTime":1182.19,"body":"then, because I was making a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1182.19,"endTime":1184.5,"body":"decision based on fear. Like I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1182.19,"endTime":1184.5,"body":"was afraid of being lonely"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1184.5,"endTime":1187.32,"body":"forever. I was afraid of losing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1184.5,"endTime":1187.32,"body":"this person from my life. And he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1187.32,"endTime":1189.72,"body":"was, and he said, \"Ben, I know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1187.32,"endTime":1189.72,"body":"you don't make this decision"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1189.72,"endTime":1190.32,"body":"based on fear.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1190.31,"endTime":1192.59,"body":"We really need to stop"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1190.31,"endTime":1192.59,"body":"looking at each other as poster"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1192.59,"endTime":1196.58,"body":"children like something to like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1192.59,"endTime":1196.58,"body":"level up to and rank with. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1196.58,"endTime":1198.53,"body":"m gonna sound like a brok"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1196.58,"endTime":1198.53,"body":"n record. I said this in the la"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1198.53,"endTime":1201.59,"body":"t episode, but like everyone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1198.53,"endTime":1201.59,"body":"s life path. is different. Y"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1201.59,"endTime":1201.95,"body":"u kno"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1202.59,"endTime":1205.17,"body":"I want to say something to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1202.59,"endTime":1205.17,"body":"straight people who are married."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1205.56,"endTime":1208.38,"body":"I remember one of my good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1205.56,"endTime":1208.38,"body":"friends when I came out, when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1208.38,"endTime":1211.86,"body":"first came out, she's one of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1208.38,"endTime":1211.86,"body":"first people I told, and I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1211.86,"endTime":1213.84,"body":"really worried about being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1211.86,"endTime":1213.84,"body":"lonely and sad, or like, that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1213.84,"endTime":1215.94,"body":"was my fear. Like, those are the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1213.84,"endTime":1215.94,"body":"words I said, again, again, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1215.94,"endTime":1219.21,"body":"going to be lonely and sad"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1215.94,"endTime":1219.21,"body":"forever. And she promised me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1219.21,"endTime":1222.39,"body":"that, that we will always be in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1219.21,"endTime":1222.39,"body":"each other's lives. And I would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1222.39,"endTime":1225.84,"body":"always be part of her family."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1222.39,"endTime":1225.84,"body":"And she got married, and things"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1225.84,"endTime":1229.65,"body":"were totally different. And, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1225.84,"endTime":1229.65,"body":"it just didn't happen that way."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1229.92,"endTime":1231.96,"body":"But there have been some people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1229.92,"endTime":1231.96,"body":"like my friends, Kevin and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1231.96,"endTime":1235.11,"body":"Alison, who have made sure that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1231.96,"endTime":1235.11,"body":"I'm a part of their family no"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1235.11,"endTime":1237.63,"body":"matter what. Like they make it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1235.11,"endTime":1237.63,"body":"explicit. And they make it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1237.63,"endTime":1241.68,"body":"clear. And I remember when the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1237.63,"endTime":1241.68,"body":"pandemic started, I went down to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1241.68,"endTime":1244.02,"body":"their house in Arizona and spent"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1241.68,"endTime":1244.02,"body":"three and a half weeks there,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1244.05,"endTime":1245.64,"body":"like three and a half weeks."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1244.05,"endTime":1245.64,"body":"That's a long time to be in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1245.64,"endTime":1248.49,"body":"someone's house. And when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1245.64,"endTime":1248.49,"body":"left, they said, \"Are you sure"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1248.49,"endTime":1251.79,"body":"you want to go? Like you can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1248.49,"endTime":1251.79,"body":"stay longer.\" And, and when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1251.79,"endTime":1253.62,"body":"moved away from Arizona, they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1251.79,"endTime":1253.62,"body":"made me a promise that we were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1253.62,"endTime":1256.44,"body":"going to Skype at least every"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1253.62,"endTime":1256.44,"body":"other week. So one of the things"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1256.44,"endTime":1258.96,"body":"that has helped me so much is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1256.44,"endTime":1258.96,"body":"people in my life, who have made"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1258.96,"endTime":1262.59,"body":"sure that I am part of their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1258.96,"endTime":1262.59,"body":"family. And like I love like my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1262.62,"endTime":1264.72,"body":"parents and my siblings and my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1262.62,"endTime":1264.72,"body":"nieces and nephews. Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1264.72,"endTime":1267.99,"body":"they're wonderful, but I need"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1264.72,"endTime":1267.99,"body":"more. I need people, I need more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1267.99,"endTime":1270.45,"body":"people in my life. And so the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1267.99,"endTime":1270.45,"body":"people who make sure that I am"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1270.45,"endTime":1273.15,"body":"part of their families, they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1270.45,"endTime":1273.15,"body":"have made all the difference for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1273.15,"endTime":1276.39,"body":"me. So if you have single people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1273.15,"endTime":1276.39,"body":"in your life, make them a part"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1276.39,"endTime":1277.02,"body":"of your family."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1277.74,"endTime":1279.84,"body":"You know, I want to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1277.74,"endTime":1279.84,"body":"really careful when I bring this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1279.84,"endTime":1283.05,"body":"up. But one thing I see people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1279.84,"endTime":1283.05,"body":"do quite a bit is trying to find"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1283.11,"endTime":1287.91,"body":"loopholes within my singleship."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1283.11,"endTime":1287.91,"body":"And Ben, would you talk about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1287.91,"endTime":1288.39,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1289.59,"endTime":1291.72,"body":"Well, I don't want to tell"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1289.59,"endTime":1291.72,"body":"anyone what to think or what to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1291.72,"endTime":1292.44,"body":"do but..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1293.4,"endTime":1295.47,"body":"I'll just keep going."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1293.4,"endTime":1295.47,"body":"I'm just, I'm just scared of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1295.47,"endTime":1299.07,"body":"this topic in general. And like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1295.47,"endTime":1299.07,"body":"I'm, I was worried about this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1299.07,"endTime":1301.62,"body":"episode, because I just, this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1299.07,"endTime":1301.62,"body":"tough. You know, this is a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1301.62,"endTime":1303.06,"body":"conversation that people don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1301.62,"endTime":1303.06,"body":"have."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1303.36,"endTime":1305.91,"body":"Yeah, I think we should"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1303.36,"endTime":1305.91,"body":"say, we should say, \"Don't look"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1305.91,"endTime":1309.27,"body":"for loopholes, but just, people,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1305.91,"endTime":1309.27,"body":"there are people who look for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1309.27,"endTime":1311.82,"body":"loopholes.\" Like there are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1309.27,"endTime":1311.82,"body":"people who are active in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1311.82,"endTime":1316.62,"body":"church, and in like committed"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1311.82,"endTime":1316.62,"body":"same sex relationships, but that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1316.62,"endTime":1318.72,"body":"are still living church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1316.62,"endTime":1318.72,"body":"standards."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1318.78,"endTime":1319.23,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1319.56,"endTime":1322.83,"body":"So and I'm not sure I'd"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1319.56,"endTime":1322.83,"body":"call it a loophole but like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1322.83,"endTime":1324.69,"body":"that's a thing that people do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1324.75,"endTime":1327.15,"body":"But I guess my only"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1324.75,"endTime":1327.15,"body":"point with this, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1327.15,"endTime":1329.55,"body":"know how much I'm going to edit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1327.15,"endTime":1329.55,"body":"this episode, even because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1329.55,"endTime":1331.59,"body":"kind of like this Ben. I like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1329.55,"endTime":1331.59,"body":"this conversation, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1331.59,"endTime":1333.69,"body":"honestly, we're trying to figure"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1331.59,"endTime":1333.69,"body":"it out, too. If I'm being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1333.69,"endTime":1338.79,"body":"completely honest. Like I said,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1333.69,"endTime":1338.79,"body":"we're not the experts of any of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1338.79,"endTime":1339.51,"body":"this, but..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1339.63,"endTime":1341.67,"body":"Oh please, I've been single"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1339.63,"endTime":1341.67,"body":"longer than most people."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1341.72,"endTime":1344.66,"body":"Okay, five years, get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1341.72,"endTime":1344.66,"body":"over yourself. There's one thing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1344.66,"endTime":1347.93,"body":"to like, make conscious"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1344.66,"endTime":1347.93,"body":"decisions to live a certain way."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1348.11,"endTime":1351.17,"body":"It's another thing to like, feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1348.11,"endTime":1351.17,"body":"forced into something or make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1351.17,"endTime":1355.55,"body":"decisions based out of fear, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1351.17,"endTime":1355.55,"body":"regret or shame. You know, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1355.55,"endTime":1358.73,"body":"think sometimes it just gets"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1355.55,"endTime":1358.73,"body":"emotionally dangerous when when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.73,"endTime":1362.69,"body":"your whole decision making"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.73,"endTime":1362.69,"body":"process is based out of \"I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1362.69,"endTime":1364.4,"body":"scared of what's going to happen"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1362.69,"endTime":1364.4,"body":"in the future.\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1364.43,"endTime":1365.09,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1365.0,"endTime":1368.96,"body":"And, and, and like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1365.0,"endTime":1368.96,"body":"said, it's hard. It's weird."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1368.96,"endTime":1373.07,"body":"It's it's ugly, and complex, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1368.96,"endTime":1373.07,"body":"like, I've really tried to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1373.07,"endTime":1377.57,"body":"remind myself always to check in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1373.07,"endTime":1377.57,"body":"with God. And like I said, live"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1377.57,"endTime":1381.14,"body":"how I feel called to live. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1377.57,"endTime":1381.14,"body":"just do that the best way I can,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1381.32,"endTime":1384.5,"body":"and not like superimpose other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1381.32,"endTime":1384.5,"body":"people's ideas of what I should"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1384.5,"endTime":1389.66,"body":"be doing. Or like religious"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1384.5,"endTime":1389.66,"body":"conflict that's in my heart that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1389.66,"endTime":1392.3,"body":"kind of grows and turns into"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1389.66,"endTime":1392.3,"body":"paranoia. Like, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1392.3,"endTime":1395.57,"body":"bad stuff that's happening. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1392.3,"endTime":1395.57,"body":"occasionally, I've had friends"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1395.57,"endTime":1400.04,"body":"who've gotten in like, some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1395.57,"endTime":1400.04,"body":"emotionally turbulent"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1400.07,"endTime":1403.46,"body":"relationships, because all of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1400.07,"endTime":1403.46,"body":"this is compounding together."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1403.49,"endTime":1407.06,"body":"And it's, I don't know, it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1403.49,"endTime":1407.06,"body":"hard, you, you have to be honest"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1407.06,"endTime":1408.44,"body":"with yourself, you have to."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1408.51,"endTime":1410.67,"body":"Definitely. What you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1408.51,"endTime":1410.67,"body":"saying really resonates with me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1410.67,"endTime":1413.07,"body":"And I, like as you were talking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1410.67,"endTime":1413.07,"body":"about your sadness at your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1413.07,"endTime":1415.77,"body":"friend's wedding. I used to feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1413.07,"endTime":1415.77,"body":"that way, too. I haven't felt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1415.77,"endTime":1418.95,"body":"that way for a really long time"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1415.77,"endTime":1418.95,"body":"now. And I think the thing that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1418.95,"endTime":1423.06,"body":"changed for me is instead of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1418.95,"endTime":1423.06,"body":"looking at what I don't have,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1423.15,"endTime":1426.15,"body":"what other people do have, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1423.15,"endTime":1426.15,"body":"feel like I'm gonna be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1426.15,"endTime":1429.54,"body":"constantly left behind, as I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1426.15,"endTime":1429.54,"body":"like, gone to God and like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1429.54,"endTime":1432.33,"body":"received personal revelation. As"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1429.54,"endTime":1432.33,"body":"I see people do other great"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1432.33,"endTime":1435.03,"body":"things in their life I see,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1432.33,"endTime":1435.03,"body":"well, this is the way God has"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1435.03,"endTime":1438.24,"body":"called me to live. This is what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1435.03,"endTime":1438.24,"body":"I'm feeling called to do. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1438.24,"endTime":1440.37,"body":"even though people have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1438.24,"endTime":1440.37,"body":"beautiful lives that are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1440.37,"endTime":1444.21,"body":"different than mine, I can see"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1440.37,"endTime":1444.21,"body":"God guiding me on my path. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1444.21,"endTime":1447.15,"body":"that makes that makes it okay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1444.21,"endTime":1447.15,"body":"And I feel like, like personal"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1447.15,"endTime":1450.0,"body":"revelation is kind of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1447.15,"endTime":1450.0,"body":"antidote to jealousy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1450.18,"endTime":1452.13,"body":"Yeah, because I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1450.18,"endTime":1452.13,"body":"just gonna ask that. Did you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1452.13,"endTime":1454.5,"body":"used to feel jealous of people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1452.13,"endTime":1454.5,"body":"who had like, left the church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1454.5,"endTime":1455.61,"body":"and were in relationships?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1455.64,"endTime":1456.42,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1456.48,"endTime":1458.82,"body":"Oh, me too, all the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1456.48,"endTime":1458.82,"body":"time. And especially when people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1458.82,"endTime":1461.94,"body":"like, left the church, were in a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1458.82,"endTime":1461.94,"body":"relationship, and then came back"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1461.94,"endTime":1464.85,"body":"to church. I was so jealous of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1461.94,"endTime":1464.85,"body":"them because I was like, \"Wow,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1464.88,"endTime":1467.49,"body":"they got everything I wanted.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1464.88,"endTime":1467.49,"body":"And then, you know, like, came"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1467.49,"endTime":1469.38,"body":"back and were repentant and, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1467.49,"endTime":1469.38,"body":"got to have all these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1469.38,"endTime":1472.86,"body":"experiences that I long for, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1469.38,"endTime":1472.86,"body":"then came back as if nothing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1472.86,"endTime":1475.65,"body":"ever happened. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1472.86,"endTime":1475.65,"body":"Ooooh, I hate them. You know?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1475.68,"endTime":1478.47,"body":"And that's like, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1475.68,"endTime":1478.47,"body":"that, I used to feel that so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1478.47,"endTime":1481.77,"body":"much. I love that personal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1478.47,"endTime":1481.77,"body":"revelation is an antidote to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1481.77,"endTime":1483.39,"body":"jealousy. That is beautiful."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1483.93,"endTime":1485.82,"body":"I've never been jealous"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1483.93,"endTime":1485.82,"body":"when people have left the church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1485.82,"endTime":1488.16,"body":"but I have been jealous of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1485.82,"endTime":1488.16,"body":"people who like get to find"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1488.16,"endTime":1489.06,"body":"their partner and..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1489.15,"endTime":1491.01,"body":"I'm gonna back up there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1489.15,"endTime":1491.01,"body":"because I just did something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1491.01,"endTime":1495.21,"body":"that I don't like when people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1491.01,"endTime":1495.21,"body":"do. I assume that going into a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1495.21,"endTime":1498.48,"body":"same sex relationship was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1495.21,"endTime":1498.48,"body":"leaving the church. I disagree"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1498.48,"endTime":1500.16,"body":"with that. I don't know why I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1498.48,"endTime":1500.16,"body":"said that. I guess it's just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1500.16,"endTime":1502.47,"body":"because of like, that's what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1500.16,"endTime":1502.47,"body":"everyone else assumes. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1502.5,"endTime":1504.87,"body":"honestly, that's the experience"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1502.5,"endTime":1504.87,"body":"I had, most of the time, people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1504.87,"endTime":1507.33,"body":"who were in same sex"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1504.87,"endTime":1507.33,"body":"relationships have left the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1507.33,"endTime":1510.21,"body":"church. Well, and I think that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1507.33,"endTime":1510.21,"body":"just goes back to this idea of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1510.21,"endTime":1512.7,"body":"like, there aren't options."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1510.21,"endTime":1512.7,"body":"Like, for so long, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1512.7,"endTime":1514.89,"body":"ingrained into me that there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1512.7,"endTime":1514.89,"body":"were two options: You stay in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1514.89,"endTime":1517.32,"body":"the church and you're single and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1514.89,"endTime":1517.32,"body":"you hate yourself; or you leave"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1517.32,"endTime":1521.64,"body":"the church and you find love and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1517.32,"endTime":1521.64,"body":"you hate the church. You know?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1521.64,"endTime":1524.67,"body":"And, and that's not true. That's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1521.64,"endTime":1524.67,"body":"not the binary world that we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1524.67,"endTime":1526.2,"body":"live in. And like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1526.53,"endTime":1529.2,"body":"Not only is it like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1526.53,"endTime":1529.2,"body":"reductive, but it's so untrue."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1529.0,"endTime":1531.94,"body":"It's so untrue. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1529.0,"endTime":1531.94,"body":"there are, I know, same sex"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1531.94,"endTime":1534.97,"body":"couples that go to church. There"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1531.94,"endTime":1534.97,"body":"are different options. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1534.97,"endTime":1537.76,"body":"think it's healthy to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1534.97,"endTime":1537.76,"body":"acknowledge different options,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1537.91,"endTime":1540.91,"body":"and then pray about you, and who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1537.91,"endTime":1540.91,"body":"you are, and where you're at."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1541.21,"endTime":1544.33,"body":"And go forward with your own"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1541.21,"endTime":1544.33,"body":"personal revelation of where you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1544.33,"endTime":1547.54,"body":"need to be fitting right now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1544.33,"endTime":1547.54,"body":"One thing I'll add is people ask"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1547.54,"endTime":1550.15,"body":"me the same question, \"Like how"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1547.54,"endTime":1550.15,"body":"can you live, knowing you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1550.15,"endTime":1552.64,"body":"going to be alone forever?\" Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1550.15,"endTime":1552.64,"body":"that, that thought never even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1552.64,"endTime":1556.54,"body":"crosses my mind. Because the way"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1552.64,"endTime":1556.54,"body":"I see it, I'm fitting where I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1556.54,"endTime":1560.05,"body":"know that God needs me to fit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1556.54,"endTime":1560.05,"body":"right now. It could just be a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1560.05,"endTime":1563.08,"body":"coping mechanism, not thinking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1560.05,"endTime":1563.08,"body":"about my future that much. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1563.08,"endTime":1565.36,"body":"it probably is, if I'm being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1563.08,"endTime":1565.36,"body":"honest. But it's one that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1565.36,"endTime":1568.54,"body":"really working for me, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1565.36,"endTime":1568.54,"body":"feel healthy. And the fact that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1569.02,"endTime":1572.77,"body":"I don't worry about these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1569.02,"endTime":1572.77,"body":"massive what ifs 10 years down"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1572.77,"endTime":1575.68,"body":"the road, because I'm like, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1572.77,"endTime":1575.68,"body":"know what, I feel great today."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1575.71,"endTime":1578.08,"body":"I'm doing what I need to do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1575.71,"endTime":1578.08,"body":"today. And if tomorrow it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1578.08,"endTime":1582.22,"body":"changes, I feel like comfortable"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1578.08,"endTime":1582.22,"body":"enough that I can make a change,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1582.43,"endTime":1585.58,"body":"and be happy with that too. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1582.43,"endTime":1585.58,"body":"just follow God and keep my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1585.58,"endTime":1590.29,"body":"values. And all of this past"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1585.58,"endTime":1590.29,"body":"like religious and emotional,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1590.29,"endTime":1593.11,"body":"like experience and growth that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1590.29,"endTime":1593.11,"body":"I've had are still with me, so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1593.11,"endTime":1596.32,"body":"I'm going to be in a safe place"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1593.11,"endTime":1596.32,"body":"in the future. And I feel okay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1596.32,"endTime":1596.89,"body":"with that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1596.9,"endTime":1600.05,"body":"Yeah. And I think this like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1596.9,"endTime":1600.05,"body":"trusting God, that he's got our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1600.05,"endTime":1603.38,"body":"back and he's got a future"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1600.05,"endTime":1603.38,"body":"that's great for us planned is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1603.38,"endTime":1606.56,"body":"really important. Because I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1603.38,"endTime":1606.56,"body":"remember when I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1606.56,"endTime":1608.9,"body":"don't know, I think I hadn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1606.56,"endTime":1608.9,"body":"even come out to my parents. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1608.9,"endTime":1612.26,"body":"was like, 23, and my dad gave me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1608.9,"endTime":1612.26,"body":"a blessing where he said that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1612.26,"endTime":1614.6,"body":"would be saved in the highest"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1612.26,"endTime":1614.6,"body":"degree of the celestial kingdom."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1615.14,"endTime":1617.45,"body":"And my thought to that, like my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1615.14,"endTime":1617.45,"body":"response to that in my head was,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1617.48,"endTime":1620.33,"body":"\"Oh, shoot\" because that meant I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1617.48,"endTime":1620.33,"body":"had to be sealed to woman"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1620.33,"endTime":1623.6,"body":"forever. And I remember, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1620.33,"endTime":1623.6,"body":"the idea of like, that being so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1623.6,"endTime":1627.08,"body":"terrifying, because like being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1623.6,"endTime":1627.08,"body":"married, and having children,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1627.08,"endTime":1630.44,"body":"like right now sounds like not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1627.08,"endTime":1630.44,"body":"what I want and the idea that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1630.44,"endTime":1634.31,"body":"like that was eternity. Like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1630.44,"endTime":1634.31,"body":"don't want that heaven, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1634.34,"endTime":1637.4,"body":"exhaltation to me, honestly, is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1634.34,"endTime":1637.4,"body":"unappealing."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1637.7,"endTime":1638.33,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1638.36,"endTime":1640.94,"body":"But at the same time, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1638.36,"endTime":1640.94,"body":"that's what I'm working for."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1640.97,"endTime":1643.55,"body":"Like, that's what I'm working"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1640.97,"endTime":1643.55,"body":"towards. Like, I just trust"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1643.55,"endTime":1647.39,"body":"that, that this path is a path"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1643.55,"endTime":1647.39,"body":"that God wants me on. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1647.42,"endTime":1649.49,"body":"honestly, like, It's not scary"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1647.42,"endTime":1649.49,"body":"or frightening, because I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1649.49,"endTime":1652.97,"body":"seen things work out so well."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1649.49,"endTime":1652.97,"body":"And I've moved around a lot in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1652.97,"endTime":1655.13,"body":"my life. And every time I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1652.97,"endTime":1655.13,"body":"gone to a new place, I like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1655.13,"endTime":1657.56,"body":"imagined what it was going to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1655.13,"endTime":1657.56,"body":"like when I got there. And every"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1657.56,"endTime":1659.84,"body":"time it was different. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1657.56,"endTime":1659.84,"body":"nothing like I expected."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1659.87,"endTime":1660.26,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1660.26,"endTime":1663.14,"body":"And so I know that the way"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1660.26,"endTime":1663.14,"body":"I envision, you know, future"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1663.14,"endTime":1666.86,"body":"life for Ben. I'm wrong. And the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1663.14,"endTime":1666.86,"body":"way I envision Heaven, that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1666.86,"endTime":1669.71,"body":"not it. Things are going to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1666.86,"endTime":1669.71,"body":"different when, like I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1669.71,"endTime":1672.98,"body":"know how they're gonna be. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1669.71,"endTime":1672.98,"body":"trust that God is like, God is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1672.98,"endTime":1675.38,"body":"good and loves me. And at the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1672.98,"endTime":1675.38,"body":"end of life, he's not going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1675.38,"endTime":1678.68,"body":"be like, \"Aha! Gotcha. Here's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1675.38,"endTime":1678.68,"body":"your wife, sucker.\" You know?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1679.76,"endTime":1680.03,"body":"Nooooo!"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1680.81,"endTime":1683.87,"body":"But the reason I say that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1680.81,"endTime":1683.87,"body":"is like, we're not, like the way"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1683.96,"endTime":1687.5,"body":"people often try and comfort me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1683.96,"endTime":1687.5,"body":"because I'm single, like, \"Well,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1688.25,"endTime":1690.68,"body":"some day you'll be married to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1688.25,"endTime":1690.68,"body":"woman.\" I'm like, that's not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1690.68,"endTime":1691.61,"body":"comforting to me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1692.06,"endTime":1693.02,"body":"We don't want that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1693.05,"endTime":1695.45,"body":"Yeah, like, don't give me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1693.05,"endTime":1695.45,"body":"an outcome. Like help me build"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1695.45,"endTime":1696.29,"body":"my faith in God."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1696.71,"endTime":1701.96,"body":"Oh my gosh, Ben, that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1696.71,"endTime":1701.96,"body":"beautiful. That's amazing. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1701.96,"endTime":1704.69,"body":"keep thinking I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1701.96,"endTime":1704.69,"body":"dishearten people, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1704.69,"endTime":1707.72,"body":"I used to look at people as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1704.69,"endTime":1707.72,"body":"examples of singleship"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1708.83,"endTime":1709.55,"body":"whenever..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1709.58,"endTime":1710.81,"body":"Singlehood? Singleness?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1710.87,"endTime":1715.49,"body":"Singleness, and then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1710.87,"endTime":1715.49,"body":"they would not be single, as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1715.49,"endTime":1718.91,"body":"they had, like, promised or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1715.49,"endTime":1718.91,"body":"whatever to do. And then I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1718.91,"endTime":1722.96,"body":"like, \"Oh, another example"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1718.91,"endTime":1722.96,"body":"fallen.\" You know? And I, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1722.96,"endTime":1725.54,"body":"don't want to dishearten people,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1722.96,"endTime":1725.54,"body":"but like, honestly, most people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1725.54,"endTime":1728.87,"body":"aren't always single. You know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1725.54,"endTime":1728.87,"body":"what I mean? Like, pretty much,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1729.02,"endTime":1734.03,"body":"almost every gay member of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1729.02,"endTime":1734.03,"body":"church I know, has dated, or had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1734.03,"endTime":1737.06,"body":"some sort of, like, romantic"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1734.03,"endTime":1737.06,"body":"experience with someone of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1737.06,"endTime":1742.25,"body":"same sex. Like, that is natural."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1737.06,"endTime":1742.25,"body":"It's normal. It's common, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1742.43,"endTime":1744.38,"body":"it's probably gonna happen."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1744.54,"endTime":1747.6,"body":"I mean, the truth is that,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1744.54,"endTime":1747.6,"body":"that I know, many hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1747.63,"endTime":1751.98,"body":"gay Latter-day Saints and almost"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1747.63,"endTime":1751.98,"body":"all of them have been in some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1751.98,"endTime":1754.38,"body":"kind of same sex romantic"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1751.98,"endTime":1754.38,"body":"relationship. Almost all of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1754.38,"endTime":1757.98,"body":"them. I mean, I've had the one."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1754.38,"endTime":1757.98,"body":"But that was a really important"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1757.98,"endTime":1760.11,"body":"formative experience for me. I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1757.98,"endTime":1760.11,"body":"not saying that people should"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1760.11,"endTime":1763.56,"body":"date but it's, it's just a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1760.11,"endTime":1763.56,"body":"reality. It's a lived experience"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1763.56,"endTime":1767.49,"body":"for most of us. And that's,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1763.56,"endTime":1767.49,"body":"that's part of life's journey."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1768.17,"endTime":1770.96,"body":"Right? And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1768.17,"endTime":1770.96,"body":"we plan on doing another episode"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1770.96,"endTime":1773.84,"body":"on same sex dating and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1770.96,"endTime":1773.84,"body":"experiences with that, but I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1773.84,"endTime":1776.6,"body":"think it's just important to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1773.84,"endTime":1776.6,"body":"note that like, no one decision"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1776.6,"endTime":1780.05,"body":"is ever damning, nor final. You"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1776.6,"endTime":1780.05,"body":"know? I mean, that is the beauty"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1780.17,"endTime":1785.09,"body":"of agency and the Atonement of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1780.17,"endTime":1785.09,"body":"Jesus Christ. Like, we can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1785.12,"endTime":1788.9,"body":"always recalibrate and see where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1785.12,"endTime":1788.9,"body":"we're at and see if we're happy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1788.9,"endTime":1792.95,"body":"and if we're, if we're facing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1788.9,"endTime":1792.95,"body":"God. And we're going to stumble"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1792.95,"endTime":1796.91,"body":"through this 1000 times. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1792.95,"endTime":1796.91,"body":"guess for just anyone who's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1796.91,"endTime":1800.03,"body":"listening who's like really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1796.91,"endTime":1800.03,"body":"like, trying to like grip on and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1800.03,"endTime":1803.18,"body":"staying like, single and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1800.03,"endTime":1803.18,"body":"celibate and is dealing with all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1803.18,"endTime":1806.18,"body":"of this pressure. Like, that's a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1803.18,"endTime":1806.18,"body":"lot of pressure to live under,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1806.21,"endTime":1810.5,"body":"you know? And if you step back"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1806.21,"endTime":1810.5,"body":"and just like, you're gonna be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1810.5,"endTime":1812.42,"body":"safe, like, go ahead. And what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1810.5,"endTime":1812.42,"body":"were you saying?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1812.42,"endTime":1814.61,"body":"Well I was just gonna say,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1812.42,"endTime":1814.61,"body":"sometimes people say, \"Oh, well,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1814.61,"endTime":1817.88,"body":"Ben you're single because you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1814.61,"endTime":1817.88,"body":"work at BYU.\" I'm like, \"No, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1817.88,"endTime":1821.45,"body":"am not single because I work at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1817.88,"endTime":1821.45,"body":"BYU.\" Like I, this is what I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1821.45,"endTime":1824.57,"body":"have chosen to do. And then I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1821.45,"endTime":1824.57,"body":"have also chosen to work at BYU."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1824.93,"endTime":1828.02,"body":"And if I chose a different life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1824.93,"endTime":1828.02,"body":"path, I could leave my job at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1828.02,"endTime":1829.46,"body":"BYU and get a different job."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1829.49,"endTime":1832.13,"body":"Exactly. And you would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1829.49,"endTime":1832.13,"body":"still be Ben. You know? You"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1832.13,"endTime":1834.83,"body":"would still have a lot of faith"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1832.13,"endTime":1834.83,"body":"and you would still probably"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1834.83,"endTime":1837.44,"body":"read your scriptures. And you'd"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1834.83,"endTime":1837.44,"body":"still have close relationships"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1837.44,"endTime":1840.29,"body":"with your family and friends."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1837.44,"endTime":1840.29,"body":"And you're not going to turn"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1840.29,"endTime":1843.41,"body":"into like, a worse version of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1840.29,"endTime":1843.41,"body":"yourself, because you're making"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1843.41,"endTime":1845.63,"body":"a choice that you feel compelled"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1843.41,"endTime":1845.63,"body":"to make."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1845.66,"endTime":1847.82,"body":"Yeah. Can I share something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1845.66,"endTime":1847.82,"body":"that was a little helpful for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1847.82,"endTime":1848.03,"body":"me..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1848.09,"endTime":1848.45,"body":"Please."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1848.45,"endTime":1850.16,"body":"...years ago, when I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1848.45,"endTime":1850.16,"body":"deciding, like, how to move"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1850.16,"endTime":1850.55,"body":"forward?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1850.58,"endTime":1850.94,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1851.63,"endTime":1854.78,"body":"So there are people who are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1851.63,"endTime":1854.78,"body":"single by choice, and people who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1854.78,"endTime":1859.19,"body":"are single by circumstance. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1854.78,"endTime":1859.19,"body":"for me, it was really hard to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1859.19,"endTime":1863.18,"body":"feel like I was single and it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1859.19,"endTime":1863.18,"body":"wasn't my choice. And I feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1863.18,"endTime":1865.79,"body":"like my heart really goes out to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1863.18,"endTime":1865.79,"body":"people who like, wish they were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1865.79,"endTime":1868.76,"body":"married, that wish they were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1865.79,"endTime":1868.76,"body":"dating, whether gay or straight,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1868.88,"endTime":1871.85,"body":"and just can't find that person."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1868.88,"endTime":1871.85,"body":"And honestly, like, for me, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1871.85,"endTime":1874.4,"body":"feel like it's a lot easier to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1871.85,"endTime":1874.4,"body":"be single because it's my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1874.4,"endTime":1877.49,"body":"choice. Like, I don't feel like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1874.4,"endTime":1877.49,"body":"I don't feel undesirable. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1877.49,"endTime":1879.98,"body":"don't feel rejected. Like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1877.49,"endTime":1879.98,"body":"feel like, and I could be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1879.98,"endTime":1883.52,"body":"totally wrong, but I feel like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1879.98,"endTime":1883.52,"body":"if I were to pursue dating and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1883.52,"endTime":1887.45,"body":"marriage, I feel like I could be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1883.52,"endTime":1887.45,"body":"successful. And so I feel like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1887.54,"endTime":1890.39,"body":"like making this a conscious"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1887.54,"endTime":1890.39,"body":"choice instead of just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1890.54,"endTime":1892.43,"body":"circumstances then it's so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1890.54,"endTime":1892.43,"body":"freeing for me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1892.48,"endTime":1896.2,"body":"Yes, yes, yes, yes."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1892.48,"endTime":1896.2,"body":"Agency is not about choosing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1896.23,"endTime":1899.89,"body":"between right and wrong. It's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1896.23,"endTime":1899.89,"body":"about the ability to choose like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1899.92,"endTime":1904.15,"body":"that is empowerment. And so if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1899.92,"endTime":1904.15,"body":"you're making like conscious,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1904.15,"endTime":1908.05,"body":"intentional decisions about the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1904.15,"endTime":1908.05,"body":"life path that you're on, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1908.05,"endTime":1911.05,"body":"where you're at every day, then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1908.05,"endTime":1911.05,"body":"you're going to be so much more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1911.05,"endTime":1914.29,"body":"able to feel close to God and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1911.05,"endTime":1914.29,"body":"feel the love of others. You"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1914.29,"endTime":1918.58,"body":"kind of like open this conduit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1914.29,"endTime":1918.58,"body":"to let like hope flow through"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1918.58,"endTime":1922.54,"body":"you instead of feeling like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1918.58,"endTime":1922.54,"body":"you're cornered. And like, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1922.54,"endTime":1924.73,"body":"I used to, I honestly feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1922.54,"endTime":1924.73,"body":"there was somebody with a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1924.73,"endTime":1927.67,"body":"pitchfork that was like shoving"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1924.73,"endTime":1927.67,"body":"me into a corner. Like, \"Stay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1927.67,"endTime":1929.77,"body":"single. Stay single. Stay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1927.67,"endTime":1929.77,"body":"single. Hide yourself. Hide"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1929.77,"endTime":1932.23,"body":"yourself.\" And once I realized"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1929.77,"endTime":1932.23,"body":"that wasn't true, and that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1932.23,"endTime":1935.8,"body":"could go anywhere in the room"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1932.23,"endTime":1935.8,"body":"that I wanted to, it made me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1935.8,"endTime":1939.25,"body":"like, happier staying in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1935.8,"endTime":1939.25,"body":"space that I was in."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1939.73,"endTime":1941.89,"body":"I really wanna talk about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1939.73,"endTime":1941.89,"body":"like, how to be happy single."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1941.92,"endTime":1942.82,"body":"Go for it. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1942.47,"endTime":1945.59,"body":"So one of the chapters that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1942.47,"endTime":1945.59,"body":"really helped me in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1942.48,"endTime":2178.88,"body":"Yeah, that's so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1942.48,"endTime":2178.88,"body":"beautiful. It reminds me of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1945.59,"endTime":1949.67,"body":"scriptures is 1 Corinthians 12."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1945.59,"endTime":1949.67,"body":"And that's where Paul talks"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1949.67,"endTime":1952.94,"body":"about the body of Christ. And he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1949.67,"endTime":1952.94,"body":"says, \"We can't all be eyes. We"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1952.94,"endTime":1955.13,"body":"can't all be ears. We can't all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1952.94,"endTime":1955.13,"body":"e hands. We can't all be f"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1955.13,"endTime":1957.23,"body":"et. Because if we were all e"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1955.13,"endTime":1957.23,"body":"es, then we couldn't hear anyth"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1957.23,"endTime":1959.96,"body":"ng. And we were all ears t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1957.23,"endTime":1959.96,"body":"en we couldn't see anything. N"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1959.96,"endTime":1962.84,"body":"w God has made us differ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1959.96,"endTime":1962.84,"body":"nt on purpose. And the body of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1962.84,"endTime":1968.09,"body":"hrist is filled with all kinds o"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1962.84,"endTime":1968.09,"body":"different people. And as I fel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1968.09,"endTime":1970.85,"body":"a calling to be single, I trie"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1968.09,"endTime":1970.85,"body":"to think, you know, What is it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1970.85,"endTime":1974.54,"body":"that I can do as a single perso"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1970.85,"endTime":1974.54,"body":"? And when I was living in Tu"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1974.54,"endTime":1977.3,"body":"son, I met this woman in my war"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1974.54,"endTime":1977.3,"body":", her name is Georgina, and she"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1977.3,"endTime":1980.54,"body":"was in her late 50s. She has s"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1977.3,"endTime":1980.54,"body":"nce passed away, but she"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1980.54,"endTime":1984.32,"body":"was really anorexic. And she"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1980.54,"endTime":1984.32,"body":"as like 70 pounds. And I drove"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1984.32,"endTime":1986.63,"body":"her to church one day, and sh"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1984.32,"endTime":1986.63,"body":"just told me that she was lonel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1986.63,"endTime":1988.97,"body":". And I said, well, let's go"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1986.63,"endTime":1988.97,"body":"to lunch this week. And so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1988.97,"endTime":1992.45,"body":"I took her to lunch. And she ask"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1988.97,"endTime":1992.45,"body":"d me if I was a writer while we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1992.45,"endTime":1994.13,"body":"were eating, and I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1992.45,"endTime":1994.13,"body":"I guess. I mean I write for s"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1994.13,"endTime":1996.65,"body":"hool.\" She's like, \"Well, I'v"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1994.13,"endTime":1996.65,"body":"been wanting to write my li"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1996.65,"endTime":2000.82,"body":"e story. Will you help me writ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1996.65,"endTime":2000.82,"body":"my life story?\" And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2000.88,"endTime":2003.94,"body":"ike, \"Sure, why not?\" And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2000.88,"endTime":2003.94,"body":"o every week, we would go to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2003.94,"endTime":2006.13,"body":"lunch, and we would eat. And th"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2003.94,"endTime":2006.13,"body":"n when I was done eating she wo"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2006.13,"endTime":2008.56,"body":"ld just telling me stories. An"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2006.13,"endTime":2008.56,"body":"I would just type them up on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2008.56,"endTime":2012.22,"body":"y laptop. We did that for w"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2008.56,"endTime":2012.22,"body":"eks. And then we finished that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2012.22,"endTime":2016.99,"body":"nd we kept going to lunch every"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2012.22,"endTime":2016.99,"body":"week. So for a year and a ha"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2016.99,"endTime":2021.97,"body":"f, I took Georgina out, out to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2016.99,"endTime":2021.97,"body":"lunch. And, you know, I was in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2021.97,"endTime":2025.3,"body":"y early 30s. And had I lived a q"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2021.97,"endTime":2025.3,"body":"ote unquote, like normal life, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2025.3,"endTime":2027.67,"body":"would have had four kids an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2025.3,"endTime":2027.67,"body":"I would have would have had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2027.67,"endTime":2031.54,"body":"wife, I wouldn't have had an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2027.67,"endTime":2031.54,"body":"time to be with Georgina. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2031.54,"endTime":2035.02,"body":"instead, as a single person, I h"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2031.54,"endTime":2035.02,"body":"d two hours in the middle of a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2035.02,"endTime":2038.32,"body":"eekday to spend time with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2035.02,"endTime":2038.32,"body":"this woman who really needed a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2038.32,"endTime":2040.81,"body":"friend. And you know, and th"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2038.32,"endTime":2040.81,"body":"s wasn't like some great thing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2040.81,"endTime":2043.57,"body":"that I did. Like she enriched my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2040.81,"endTime":2043.57,"body":"life so much that she"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2043.57,"endTime":2047.17,"body":"was one of the most important"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2043.57,"endTime":2047.17,"body":"elationships I had in Tucson"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2047.17,"endTime":2051.04,"body":"And I remember after she died"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2047.17,"endTime":2051.04,"body":"her, her teenage son contacte"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2051.04,"endTime":2052.96,"body":"me and, and we hadn't told him"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2051.04,"endTime":2052.96,"body":"hat we'd like written this lif"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2052.96,"endTime":2055.93,"body":"story, and he found it in her"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2052.96,"endTime":2055.93,"body":"belongings. And he told me how g"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2055.93,"endTime":2057.67,"body":"ateful he was that he had t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2055.93,"endTime":2057.67,"body":"is record of her life. A"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2057.67,"endTime":2061.93,"body":"d you know, that wouldn't have h"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2057.67,"endTime":2061.93,"body":"ppened, had I not been single. A"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2061.96,"endTime":2066.52,"body":"d so there are things that a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2061.96,"endTime":2066.52,"body":"that a gay single man can do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2066.67,"endTime":2069.64,"body":"hat a straight married man can't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2066.67,"endTime":2069.64,"body":"do. And I want to be the feet"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2069.64,"endTime":2074.35,"body":"r the ears or the, the person th"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2069.64,"endTime":2074.35,"body":"t's going to do those things."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2074.35,"endTime":2077.35,"body":"And so I used to see seeing s"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2074.35,"endTime":2077.35,"body":"ngle, I used to see being single"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2077.35,"endTime":2079.9,"body":"as a deficit. But honestly,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2077.35,"endTime":2079.9,"body":"it is one of my greatest strengt"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2079.9,"endTime":2082.45,"body":"s. A couple years ago, I was a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2079.9,"endTime":2082.45,"body":"emple worker in the Provo"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2082.45,"endTime":2084.82,"body":"emple. And there's this phras"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2082.45,"endTime":2084.82,"body":"that's mentioned again and agai"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2084.85,"endTime":2088.27,"body":"in temple ordinances that come"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2084.85,"endTime":2088.27,"body":"from Genesis where God commands"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2088.27,"endTime":2091.57,"body":"dam and Eve to be fruitful and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2088.27,"endTime":2091.57,"body":"ultiply and replenish the earth"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2091.57,"endTime":2094.39,"body":"And so I thought, \"Well, how"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2091.57,"endTime":2094.39,"body":"can I as a single person, l"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2094.39,"endTime":2096.73,"body":"ke keep this commandment t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2094.39,"endTime":2096.73,"body":"be fruitful, multiply and repl"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2096.73,"endTime":2100.24,"body":"nish the earth?\" So I spent"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2096.73,"endTime":2100.24,"body":"lot of time pondering those w"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2100.24,"endTime":2102.22,"body":"rds in the temple. I thought w"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2100.24,"endTime":2102.22,"body":"ll God...Like to me, they'd a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2102.22,"endTime":2104.62,"body":"ways meant to have children. Lik"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2102.22,"endTime":2104.62,"body":"all three of those words m"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2104.62,"endTime":2107.02,"body":"ant to have children. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2104.62,"endTime":2107.02,"body":"hought, \"Well God wouldn't use"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2107.02,"endTime":2108.76,"body":"hree words to say the same thin"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2107.02,"endTime":2108.76,"body":". Like there must be something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2108.76,"endTime":2111.64,"body":"to it.\" So I started ponder"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2108.76,"endTime":2111.64,"body":"ng each word like what does it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2111.64,"endTime":2114.64,"body":"ean to be fruitful? What does i"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2111.64,"endTime":2114.64,"body":"mean to multiply? And what do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2114.67,"endTime":2118.24,"body":"s it mean to replenish the ear"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2114.67,"endTime":2118.24,"body":"h? And so, you know, being fruit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2118.24,"endTime":2121.24,"body":"ul, like our fruits are our"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2118.24,"endTime":2121.24,"body":"works. Like, how do I have good"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2121.24,"endTime":2124.03,"body":"orks? What does it mean to m"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2121.24,"endTime":2124.03,"body":"ltiply? Like, how do I multiply"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2124.03,"endTime":2126.55,"body":"y talents. And I think multiply"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2124.03,"endTime":2126.55,"body":"might actually mean just to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2126.55,"endTime":2129.37,"body":"have children. What does it mea"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2126.55,"endTime":2129.37,"body":"to replenish? And I realized I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2129.4,"endTime":2132.64,"body":"idn't know what the word repleni"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2129.4,"endTime":2132.64,"body":"h meant. So one day after wor"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2132.79,"endTime":2136.51,"body":"in the temple, I went home and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2132.79,"endTime":2136.51,"body":"went to thesaurus.com, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2136.51,"endTime":2139.78,"body":"looked up the word replen"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2136.51,"endTime":2139.78,"body":"sh. And some of the symptoms we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2139.78,"endTime":2143.2,"body":"e to renew and refresh. I tho"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2139.78,"endTime":2143.2,"body":"ght, well, how can I renew and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2143.2,"endTime":2146.71,"body":"efresh the earth? And I though"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2143.2,"endTime":2146.71,"body":"I could plant a tree, or I co"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2146.71,"endTime":2149.77,"body":"ld recycle. And that seemed real"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2146.71,"endTime":2149.77,"body":"y like shallow to me I thought."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2149.77,"endTime":2153.94,"body":"nd as I pondered it more like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2149.77,"endTime":2153.94,"body":"this was a weeks long proce"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2153.94,"endTime":2156.55,"body":"s, I realized that the Earth w"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2153.94,"endTime":2156.55,"body":"s made for God's children. So i"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2156.55,"endTime":2159.67,"body":"I'm going to renew, refresh,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2156.55,"endTime":2159.67,"body":"and replenish the earth, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2159.67,"endTime":2162.31,"body":"eed to renew, refresh, repleni"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2159.67,"endTime":2162.31,"body":"h God's children. And so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2162.31,"endTime":2165.52,"body":"made a new goal, a ne"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2162.31,"endTime":2165.52,"body":"daily goal that everyone I in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2165.52,"endTime":2168.07,"body":"eract with would feel re"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2165.52,"endTime":2168.07,"body":"ewed, refreshed, and repleni"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2168.07,"endTime":2171.49,"body":"hed because they interacted wit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2168.07,"endTime":2171.49,"body":"me. And that's the way that I k"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2171.49,"endTime":2174.25,"body":"ep that commandment that God ga"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2171.49,"endTime":2174.25,"body":"e to our, to our first parents"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2174.46,"endTime":2176.41,"body":"o be fruitful, multiply, a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2174.46,"endTime":2176.41,"body":"d replenish the earth. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2178.88,"endTime":2181.4,"body":"scripture in the Doctrine and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2178.88,"endTime":2181.4,"body":"Covenants that talks about how"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2181.4,"endTime":2184.76,"body":"we are commanded to be anxiously"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2181.4,"endTime":2184.76,"body":"engaged in a good cause. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2184.79,"endTime":2187.34,"body":"it's just, it goes back to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2184.79,"endTime":2187.34,"body":"intentional living, like making"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2187.34,"endTime":2190.37,"body":"sure that you're backing up your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2187.34,"endTime":2190.37,"body":"choices with like, actually,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2190.37,"endTime":2192.59,"body":"because that's where you want to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2190.37,"endTime":2192.59,"body":"be like, that's the space you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2192.59,"endTime":2195.11,"body":"want to operate in. And then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2192.59,"endTime":2195.11,"body":"that's obviously where you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2195.11,"endTime":2197.45,"body":"going to be most fulfilled."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2195.11,"endTime":2197.45,"body":"Like, if you're living your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2197.45,"endTime":2200.18,"body":"life, according to your personal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2197.45,"endTime":2200.18,"body":"values, you're going to find"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2200.18,"endTime":2203.36,"body":"fulfillment. And that's not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2200.18,"endTime":2203.36,"body":"going to be easy. And like you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2203.36,"endTime":2205.4,"body":"were talking about in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2203.36,"endTime":2205.4,"body":"temple, like, I love that you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2205.4,"endTime":2208.88,"body":"leaned into that discomfort to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2205.4,"endTime":2208.88,"body":"like, figure out what that meant"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2208.88,"endTime":2210.74,"body":"for you. Because it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2208.88,"endTime":2210.74,"body":"something that was kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2211.4,"endTime":2215.0,"body":"cause friction, right? And it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2211.4,"endTime":2215.0,"body":"so interesting. I always like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2215.27,"endTime":2218.66,"body":"am honestly astounded because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2215.27,"endTime":2218.66,"body":"had a very similar experience"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2218.66,"endTime":2221.57,"body":"with the same words. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2218.66,"endTime":2221.57,"body":"so as we lean into those things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2221.57,"endTime":2225.5,"body":"that kind of like rub against"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2221.57,"endTime":2225.5,"body":"us, we can we can find answers"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2225.5,"endTime":2228.8,"body":"for ourselves. I like you, fee"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2225.5,"endTime":2228.8,"body":"called to be single right now,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2228.8,"endTime":2230.93,"body":"feel like this is where I nee"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2228.8,"endTime":2230.93,"body":"to fit right now. I'm doing i"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2230.93,"endTime":2233.27,"body":"and I'm really happy. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2230.93,"endTime":2233.27,"body":"honestly, I'm, I'm reall"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2233.27,"endTime":2236.45,"body":"grateful. And I understand tha"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2233.27,"endTime":2236.45,"body":"I can pivot and do whatever"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2236.45,"endTime":2239.75,"body":"want in the future. But like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2236.45,"endTime":2239.75,"body":"right now, this is what I wan"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2239.75,"endTime":2242.81,"body":"to be doing, you know, I'm no"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2239.75,"endTime":2242.81,"body":"forced into it. That doesn'"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2242.81,"endTime":2246.2,"body":"mean it's like always, like fin"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2242.81,"endTime":2246.2,"body":"and dandy. There are some thing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2246.2,"endTime":2248.54,"body":"that like cause a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2246.2,"endTime":2248.54,"body":"friction and still cause pain."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2248.54,"endTime":2251.24,"body":"And you know, I'm sure if I went"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2248.54,"endTime":2251.24,"body":"to another wedding next week, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2251.24,"endTime":2253.94,"body":"would still have similar"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2251.24,"endTime":2253.94,"body":"feelings. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2253.94,"endTime":2256.49,"body":"sometimes if I go to the temple,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2253.94,"endTime":2256.49,"body":"or I go to church, like it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2256.49,"endTime":2259.22,"body":"still a little bit like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2256.49,"endTime":2259.22,"body":"sometimes hurts, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2259.22,"endTime":2261.41,"body":"so it doesn't mean that like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2259.22,"endTime":2261.41,"body":"I'm not in the right place,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2261.41,"endTime":2264.5,"body":"because everything's not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2261.41,"endTime":2264.5,"body":"perfect."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2264.0,"endTime":2266.46,"body":"Yeah, definitely. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2264.0,"endTime":2266.46,"body":"would say, for anyone who's like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2266.46,"endTime":2269.82,"body":"single and struggling, I'd say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2266.46,"endTime":2269.82,"body":"find your family, like find the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2269.82,"endTime":2272.55,"body":"people who are your family. Like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2269.82,"endTime":2272.55,"body":"right now I live with an 86 year"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2272.55,"endTime":2276.33,"body":"old widow. And about a year and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2272.55,"endTime":2276.33,"body":"a half ago, we were talking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2276.33,"endTime":2278.4,"body":"about the Come Follow Me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2276.33,"endTime":2278.4,"body":"program. And I was just doing it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2278.4,"endTime":2280.92,"body":"on my own. And she said, so how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2278.4,"endTime":2280.92,"body":"does this new program work? And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2280.92,"endTime":2282.66,"body":"I said, \"Well, you read the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2280.92,"endTime":2282.66,"body":"scriptures every week with your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2282.66,"endTime":2284.4,"body":"family.\" And she said, \"Well,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2282.66,"endTime":2284.4,"body":"what if you don't live with your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2284.4,"endTime":2287.67,"body":"family?\" I said, \"Well, you do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2284.4,"endTime":2287.67,"body":"it on your own.\" And she said,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2287.76,"endTime":2290.55,"body":"\"Maybe we should do it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2287.76,"endTime":2290.55,"body":"together.\" And so Charlotte and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2290.55,"endTime":2293.1,"body":"I started reading the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2290.55,"endTime":2293.1,"body":"scriptures, like almost every"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2293.1,"endTime":2294.75,"body":"day together. Like we did the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2293.1,"endTime":2294.75,"body":"Come Follow Me reading every"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2294.75,"endTime":2298.17,"body":"week. And I'd have friends over"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2294.75,"endTime":2298.17,"body":"often in the evenings, and they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2298.17,"endTime":2301.38,"body":"would read with us. And these"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2298.17,"endTime":2301.38,"body":"were like the most beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2301.41,"endTime":2304.2,"body":"fun experiences. We, as we  just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2301.41,"endTime":2304.2,"body":"like talked about the scriptures"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2304.38,"endTime":2309.27,"body":"and laughed and often ate food."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2304.38,"endTime":2309.27,"body":"And, you know, like, what a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2309.27,"endTime":2311.91,"body":"beautiful life I get to have."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2309.27,"endTime":2311.91,"body":"You know, I'm sure Charlotte"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2311.91,"endTime":2315.57,"body":"would rather have her husband"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2311.91,"endTime":2315.57,"body":"there who was passed away. Would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2315.57,"endTime":2318.51,"body":"I rather be with my spouse as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2315.57,"endTime":2318.51,"body":"well? Yes. But instead we have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2318.51,"endTime":2322.44,"body":"each other. And I think that God"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2318.51,"endTime":2322.44,"body":"can, can do a lot to give us the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2322.44,"endTime":2324.99,"body":"people in our lives, we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2322.44,"endTime":2324.99,"body":"really make life beautiful and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2324.99,"endTime":2329.1,"body":"meaningful. I spent far too many"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2324.99,"endTime":2329.1,"body":"years of my life, being sad"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2329.1,"endTime":2330.93,"body":"about something I didn't have,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2329.1,"endTime":2330.93,"body":"instead of being grateful for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2330.93,"endTime":2331.92,"body":"the things that I did have."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2332.4,"endTime":2334.95,"body":"So Ben, how do you feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2332.4,"endTime":2334.95,"body":"about being single and celibate?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2335.98,"endTime":2338.53,"body":"Honestly, I always say the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2335.98,"endTime":2338.53,"body":"better question would be like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2338.53,"endTime":2341.56,"body":"\"How do I feel with my life?\"`"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2338.53,"endTime":2341.56,"body":"Now I feel really good with my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2341.56,"endTime":2344.11,"body":"life. And my life happens to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2341.56,"endTime":2344.11,"body":"a life where I don't get to have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2344.11,"endTime":2348.04,"body":"sex. I don't have a partner. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2344.11,"endTime":2348.04,"body":"I have a lot of other wonderful"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2348.04,"endTime":2348.55,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2349.0,"endTime":2349.6,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2349.81,"endTime":2351.58,"body":"How do you feel about your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2349.81,"endTime":2351.58,"body":"life, Charlie, single and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2351.58,"endTime":2352.09,"body":"celibate?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2352.78,"endTime":2355.06,"body":"I just feel really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2352.78,"endTime":2355.06,"body":"empowered that I can live how I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2355.06,"endTime":2357.85,"body":"feel called to live. That just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2355.06,"endTime":2357.85,"body":"makes me really happy. And that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2357.85,"endTime":2361.51,"body":"I can allow others to do the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2357.85,"endTime":2361.51,"body":"same. And that puts me in a good"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2361.51,"endTime":2364.33,"body":"space where I'm happy with what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2361.51,"endTime":2364.33,"body":"I'm doing and I'm not jealous of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2364.33,"endTime":2368.29,"body":"what somebody else is doing. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2364.33,"endTime":2368.29,"body":"I'm just, it's a healthier space"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2368.29,"endTime":2371.98,"body":"for me. And I still hate the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2368.29,"endTime":2371.98,"body":"word celibate, but it's fair and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2372.04,"endTime":2374.05,"body":"I'm gonna try to debunk it as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2372.04,"endTime":2374.05,"body":"much as I can."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2374.53,"endTime":2376.75,"body":"If someone asks you,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2374.53,"endTime":2376.75,"body":"\"Should I be single and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2376.75,"endTime":2377.83,"body":"celibate?\" What would you tell"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2376.75,"endTime":2377.83,"body":"them?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2378.07,"endTime":2380.74,"body":"I'd say listen to my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2378.07,"endTime":2380.74,"body":"podcast is called Questions from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2380.74,"endTime":2387.07,"body":"the Closet and we have a 30"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2380.74,"endTime":2387.07,"body":"minute discussion about it. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2387.07,"endTime":2391.3,"body":"would say, um...I would say"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2387.07,"endTime":2391.3,"body":"realize that you can seek"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2391.3,"endTime":2394.78,"body":"heavenly guidance concerning"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2391.3,"endTime":2394.78,"body":"your identity and, and do what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2394.78,"endTime":2397.21,"body":"you feel like is best for you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2394.78,"endTime":2397.21,"body":"and where you're going to be in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2397.21,"endTime":2400.75,"body":"the like, the best spiritual,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2397.21,"endTime":2400.75,"body":"mental and emotional State and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2400.75,"endTime":2401.53,"body":"then go for it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2402.35,"endTime":2404.54,"body":"Yeah. And just to go along"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2402.35,"endTime":2404.54,"body":"with that I would say, seek the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2404.54,"endTime":2407.15,"body":"guidance of the Holy Ghost for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2404.54,"endTime":2407.15,"body":"specific personalized direction"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2407.15,"endTime":2407.72,"body":"on your path."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2407.96,"endTime":2408.59,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2408.59,"endTime":2412.04,"body":"That's the very best way to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2408.59,"endTime":2412.04,"body":"live. I am just so grateful to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2412.04,"endTime":2415.7,"body":"like right now I am in a state"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2412.04,"endTime":2415.7,"body":"where people aren't trying to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2415.7,"endTime":2419.0,"body":"marry me off. They're just, they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2415.7,"endTime":2419.0,"body":"just love me for who I am. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2419.0,"endTime":2422.45,"body":"just take me how I am. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2419.0,"endTime":2422.45,"body":"just feel very grateful that,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2422.51,"endTime":2425.27,"body":"that, that I live in a place"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2422.51,"endTime":2425.27,"body":"where that is, that is a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2425.27,"endTime":2427.25,"body":"possibility where people aren't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2425.27,"endTime":2427.25,"body":"trying to force me to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2427.25,"endTime":2429.56,"body":"something, but just love me for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2427.25,"endTime":2429.56,"body":"who I am."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2430.37,"endTime":2432.59,"body":"Thank you for joining"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2430.37,"endTime":2432.59,"body":"us today. If you have enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2432.59,"endTime":2435.14,"body":"this or other episodes, please"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2432.59,"endTime":2435.14,"body":"consider leaving us an apple"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2435.14,"endTime":2438.35,"body":"podcast review. And as always,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2435.14,"endTime":2438.35,"body":"please remember that we do not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2438.35,"endTime":2441.17,"body":"represent the Church of Jesus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2438.35,"endTime":2441.17,"body":"Christ of Latter-day Saints or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2441.17,"endTime":2444.14,"body":"Brigham Young University. We are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2441.17,"endTime":2444.14,"body":"not trying to be prescriptive or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2444.14,"endTime":2445.94,"body":"tell anyone what to think or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2444.14,"endTime":2445.94,"body":"what to do."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2446.41,"endTime":2449.08,"body":"You heard two perspectives"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2446.41,"endTime":2449.08,"body":"today. There are many, many"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2449.08,"endTime":2452.17,"body":"more. We encourage you to listen"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2449.08,"endTime":2452.17,"body":"to other voices and hear a wide"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2452.17,"endTime":2454.75,"body":"variety of experiences. If you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2452.17,"endTime":2454.75,"body":"would like to submit a question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2454.75,"endTime":2457.3,"body":"or share a comment about today's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2454.75,"endTime":2457.3,"body":"episode, you can email us at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2458.47,"endTime":2460.33,"body":"questionsfromthecloset@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2458.47,"endTime":2460.33,"body":"Until next time."}]}