{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.52,"endTime":8.16,"body":"Welcome to questions from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.52,"endTime":8.16,"body":"the closet. I'm Ben Schilaty."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":8.0,"endTime":11.24,"body":"And I'm Charlie Bird."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":8.0,"endTime":11.24,"body":"Each episode, we discuss a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.24,"endTime":14.21,"body":"question that we commonly get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.24,"endTime":14.21,"body":"asked as LGBTQ Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":14.21,"endTime":14.78,"body":"Saints."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":14.87,"endTime":16.82,"body":"We're not trying to answer"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":14.87,"endTime":16.82,"body":"this question or come to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":16.82,"endTime":18.98,"body":"consensus, but simply sharing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":16.82,"endTime":18.98,"body":"our perspectives."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":19.13,"endTime":22.07,"body":"Today's question is,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":19.13,"endTime":22.07,"body":"how do I navigate conflicting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.07,"endTime":24.08,"body":"feelings about the Family"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.07,"endTime":24.08,"body":"Proclamation?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":24.2,"endTime":26.21,"body":"So Charlie and I are not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":24.2,"endTime":26.21,"body":"terribly diverse, and we share"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":26.21,"endTime":28.43,"body":"many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":26.21,"endTime":28.43,"body":"experiences. For example, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":28.43,"endTime":30.86,"body":"both love to travel. And have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":28.43,"endTime":30.86,"body":"been to many of the same places."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":31.04,"endTime":33.14,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":31.04,"endTime":33.14,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":33.14,"endTime":36.71,"body":"example, I love going to museums"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":33.14,"endTime":36.71,"body":"when I travel, and Ben hates"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":36.71,"endTime":37.82,"body":"going to museums."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":38.21,"endTime":41.75,"body":"I really do hate going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":38.21,"endTime":41.75,"body":"museums. I when I was in Paris,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":41.78,"endTime":45.26,"body":"my friend and I went to the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":41.78,"endTime":45.26,"body":"Louvre for two hours, and we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":45.26,"endTime":48.14,"body":"would have gotten out faster,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":45.26,"endTime":48.14,"body":"but it is very big. And we got"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":48.14,"endTime":49.07,"body":"very lost."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":49.15,"endTime":51.85,"body":"Oh my gosh, I'm crying"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":49.15,"endTime":51.85,"body":"inside. I could spend, I could"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":51.85,"endTime":55.15,"body":"spend like seven years and still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":51.85,"endTime":55.15,"body":"not be done with it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":55.75,"endTime":57.58,"body":"And you know, I know a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":55.75,"endTime":57.58,"body":"of people are like that. I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":57.58,"endTime":62.44,"body":"just not a museum guy. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":57.58,"endTime":62.44,"body":"I mean, to me, good artwork is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":62.44,"endTime":68.5,"body":"Greg Olson. No, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":62.44,"endTime":68.5,"body":"kidding. But when I'm traveling,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":68.5,"endTime":72.16,"body":"my very favorite thing to do is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":68.5,"endTime":72.16,"body":"like rent a bike and like bike"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":72.16,"endTime":74.17,"body":"around a foreign city. I want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":72.16,"endTime":74.17,"body":"do that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":74.17,"endTime":76.0,"body":"That is nice. I like to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":74.17,"endTime":76.0,"body":"do that, too."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":76.0,"endTime":78.4,"body":"So we would like to provide"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":76.0,"endTime":78.4,"body":"a variety of voices and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":78.4,"endTime":81.55,"body":"perspectives. So today, we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":78.4,"endTime":81.55,"body":"joined by John Gustav-Wrathall."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":81.7,"endTime":82.3,"body":"Hello."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":83.47,"endTime":85.69,"body":"Before before we have John"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":83.47,"endTime":85.69,"body":"introduce himself, I just want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":85.69,"endTime":88.63,"body":"to tell a little personal"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":85.69,"endTime":88.63,"body":"experience I had with him. So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":88.63,"endTime":91.87,"body":"before I had met John, I had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":88.63,"endTime":91.87,"body":"heard of him. And one of my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":91.87,"endTime":94.75,"body":"first experiences hearing about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":91.87,"endTime":94.75,"body":"John was a talk that Tom"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":94.75,"endTime":97.87,"body":"Kristofferson gave at a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":94.75,"endTime":97.87,"body":"\"Circling the Wagons\" event. Tom"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":97.87,"endTime":100.93,"body":"told his story about how he had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":97.87,"endTime":100.93,"body":"gotten excommunicated, and had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":100.93,"endTime":104.38,"body":"been in a same sex partnership"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":100.93,"endTime":104.38,"body":"for decades, and then how he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":104.38,"endTime":107.53,"body":"came back to church. And then he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":104.38,"endTime":107.53,"body":"told your story, John, and how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":107.56,"endTime":110.41,"body":"and how you had also been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":107.56,"endTime":110.41,"body":"excommunicated and been in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":110.41,"endTime":113.5,"body":"committed partnership, and a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":110.41,"endTime":113.5,"body":"marriage for for decades, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":113.5,"endTime":115.78,"body":"then you had also returned to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":113.5,"endTime":115.78,"body":"the church. And I remember"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":115.78,"endTime":118.0,"body":"hearing both of your stories"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":115.78,"endTime":118.0,"body":"while I was like cleaning my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":118.0,"endTime":121.48,"body":"house one day, and just feeling"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":118.0,"endTime":121.48,"body":"the spirit telling me saying"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":121.48,"endTime":123.82,"body":"like, \"Ben, if you left the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":121.48,"endTime":123.82,"body":"church, you would come back too."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":123.88,"endTime":128.02,"body":"Just stay the whole time.\" So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":123.88,"endTime":128.02,"body":"before I met you, John, you were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":128.02,"endTime":130.63,"body":"already inspiring me. And I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":128.02,"endTime":130.63,"body":"think that you're a person of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":130.63,"endTime":132.49,"body":"great faith, who I really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":130.63,"endTime":132.49,"body":"admire."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":132.58,"endTime":136.03,"body":"Well, thank you, Ben. That"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":132.58,"endTime":136.03,"body":"means a lot to me since you're a"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":136.03,"endTime":138.1,"body":"person who really inspires me as"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":136.03,"endTime":138.1,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":138.43,"endTime":140.23,"body":"Well, tell us a little a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":138.43,"endTime":140.23,"body":"little bit about yourself, John."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":140.68,"endTime":145.6,"body":"Well, I was born in Provo,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":140.68,"endTime":145.6,"body":"Utah. I grew up in the Rochester"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":145.6,"endTime":150.28,"body":"New York area, born and raised"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":145.6,"endTime":150.28,"body":"in the church. We just grew up"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":150.28,"endTime":155.71,"body":"in a very, very loving and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":150.28,"endTime":155.71,"body":"devout home. I served a mission"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":155.71,"endTime":160.39,"body":"for the church in the Swiss"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":155.71,"endTime":160.39,"body":"Geneva mission, went to BYU as a"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":160.39,"endTime":161.41,"body":"Kimball scholar."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":162.14,"endTime":162.92,"body":"Go Cougars."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":163.01,"endTime":166.01,"body":"Oh my gosh, you must have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":163.01,"endTime":166.01,"body":"been so smart!"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":169.07,"endTime":170.09,"body":"Not a flex, there..."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":170.6,"endTime":173.3,"body":"That's what they told me."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":170.6,"endTime":173.3,"body":"There's kind of an interesting"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":173.3,"endTime":175.79,"body":"story about that. Because"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":173.3,"endTime":175.79,"body":"actually, when I found out that"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":175.79,"endTime":180.65,"body":"they had selected me I, I felt"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":175.79,"endTime":180.65,"body":"so unworthy of this honor that I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":180.65,"endTime":184.85,"body":"actually wrote a letter to a"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":180.65,"endTime":184.85,"body":"member of the committee and told"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":184.85,"endTime":187.85,"body":"him that I didn't think I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":184.85,"endTime":187.85,"body":"deserved it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":188.36,"endTime":188.78,"body":"Why?"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":188.76,"endTime":196.62,"body":"And fortunately, he"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":188.76,"endTime":196.62,"body":"ignored me. So yeah. After my"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":196.62,"endTime":203.34,"body":"third year at BYU, after a very"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":196.62,"endTime":203.34,"body":"close call with with suicide, I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":203.46,"endTime":210.57,"body":"left BYU and ultimately, I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":203.46,"endTime":210.57,"body":"resigned from the church and was"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":210.6,"endTime":215.79,"body":"away for 19 years. And during"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":210.6,"endTime":215.79,"body":"which time I met my husband, and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":215.79,"endTime":221.13,"body":"then had a really undeniable"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":215.79,"endTime":221.13,"body":"spiritual experience in the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":221.13,"endTime":226.98,"body":"summer of 2005 and began"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":221.13,"endTime":226.98,"body":"attending my ward. And it's been"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":226.98,"endTime":231.33,"body":"an interesting journey since"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":226.98,"endTime":231.33,"body":"then. Served in the leadership"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":231.33,"endTime":236.88,"body":"of Affirmation for seven years"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":231.33,"endTime":236.88,"body":"now. Have recently launched"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":236.88,"endTime":242.49,"body":"brand new ministry called \""},{"speaker":"John","startTime":236.88,"endTime":242.49,"body":"mmaus\" with Erica Munson and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":242.52,"endTime":246.75,"body":"alerie Green. We're sort of t"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":242.52,"endTime":246.75,"body":"e founders. Our hope is to fost"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":247.14,"endTime":250.59,"body":"r more effective ministry to a"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":247.14,"endTime":250.59,"body":"d with LGBTQ individuals and the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":250.59,"endTime":254.43,"body":"r families in and adjacent to t"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":250.59,"endTime":254.43,"body":"e Church of Jesus Christ of Latt"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":254.43,"endTime":255.21,"body":"r-day Saint"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":255.51,"endTime":258.63,"body":"Well, John, you do a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":255.51,"endTime":258.63,"body":"great work and I am just super"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":258.66,"endTime":262.35,"body":"grateful to get to know you. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":258.66,"endTime":262.35,"body":"so today we're talking about the"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":262.35,"endTime":265.5,"body":"A"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":262.35,"endTime":265.5,"body":"Proclamation to the World\" that"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":265.5,"endTime":269.67,"body":"can often be difficult for LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":265.5,"endTime":269.67,"body":"members. You know, as we were"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":269.67,"endTime":272.46,"body":"talking about this episode, I'm"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":269.67,"endTime":272.46,"body":"a little nervous about it"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":272.46,"endTime":276.27,"body":"honestly, just because to a lot"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":272.46,"endTime":276.27,"body":"of people the Proclamation is is"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":276.27,"endTime":281.19,"body":"inspired of God and and His word"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":276.27,"endTime":281.19,"body":"to His people today.  And to"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":281.19,"endTime":284.55,"body":"other people it's, it's a"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":281.19,"endTime":284.55,"body":"document that that is painful"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":284.67,"endTime":289.14,"body":"and hard, and that causes a lot"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":284.67,"endTime":289.14,"body":"of sorrow. So we know there are"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":289.14,"endTime":292.14,"body":"gonna be people on different"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":289.14,"endTime":292.14,"body":"sides and and we just are here"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":292.14,"endTime":295.44,"body":"to share our perspective. We're"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":292.14,"endTime":295.44,"body":"not telling anyone what to do or"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":295.44,"endTime":298.35,"body":"how to interpret things. You're"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":295.44,"endTime":298.35,"body":"gonna talk a little bit about"},{"speaker":"document \"The Family","startTime":298.35,"endTime":299.49,"body":"the history of the Proclamation?"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":299.69,"endTime":302.84,"body":"A"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":299.69,"endTime":302.84,"body":"Proclamation to the World\" was"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":303.26,"endTime":306.11,"body":"1995 statement issued by the"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":303.26,"endTime":306.11,"body":"Church of Jesus Christ of"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":306.11,"endTime":309.29,"body":"Latter-day Saints. It kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":306.11,"endTime":309.29,"body":"tells the church's official"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":309.29,"endTime":313.55,"body":"positions on family and marriage"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":309.29,"endTime":313.55,"body":"and gender roles. And it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":313.55,"endTime":315.98,"body":"first announced by Gordon B."},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":313.55,"endTime":315.98,"body":"Hinckley, who was the Prophet at"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":315.98,"endTime":319.46,"body":"the time, in the church's"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":315.98,"endTime":319.46,"body":"General Relief Society meeting."},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":319.52,"endTime":322.28,"body":"So that's just for a little bit"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":319.52,"endTime":322.28,"body":"of context, I'm pretty sure"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":322.28,"endTime":325.19,"body":"everyone knows, like, if you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":322.28,"endTime":325.19,"body":"listening to the podcast, you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":325.19,"endTime":327.86,"body":"probably very familiar with The"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":325.19,"endTime":327.86,"body":"Family Proclamation. It's on"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":327.86,"endTime":331.04,"body":"like every wall, anyone who's"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":327.86,"endTime":331.04,"body":"married gets a copy in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":331.04,"endTime":335.51,"body":"temple. It's, it's, it's very"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":331.04,"endTime":335.51,"body":"popular. So I, I almost feel a"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":335.51,"endTime":340.94,"body":"little bit silly for telling"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":335.51,"endTime":340.94,"body":"people what it is. But I wanted"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":340.94,"endTime":345.44,"body":"to do that. Historical context"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":340.94,"endTime":345.44,"body":"is very important for me. So it"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":345.44,"endTime":347.81,"body":"just, it kind of helps me"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":345.44,"endTime":347.81,"body":"because like, when this came"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":347.81,"endTime":351.14,"body":"out, I was two years old, I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":347.81,"endTime":351.14,"body":"born in '93. So I was like one"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":351.14,"endTime":353.51,"body":"and a half or two years old."},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":351.14,"endTime":353.51,"body":"Some people remember when the"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":353.51,"endTime":356.06,"body":"Proclamation was given, but to"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":353.51,"endTime":356.06,"body":"me, it's just like, always been"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":356.06,"endTime":358.79,"body":"part of my life. So it's just"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":356.06,"endTime":358.79,"body":"kind of fun to have that"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":358.79,"endTime":361.49,"body":"historical context. And I also"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":358.79,"endTime":361.49,"body":"didn't know until pretty"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":361.49,"endTime":364.76,"body":"recently that it was given at"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":361.49,"endTime":364.76,"body":"the General Relief Society"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":364.76,"endTime":367.34,"body":"meeting, I guess I just didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":364.76,"endTime":367.34,"body":"really know where it came from."},{"speaker":"Charlie: Yeah. So \"The Family","startTime":367.67,"endTime":368.9,"body":"I just knew it was on the wall."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":369.03,"endTime":372.66,"body":"Yeah. Well, it came out"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":369.03,"endTime":372.66,"body":"when I during the time when I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":372.66,"endTime":376.41,"body":"was away from the church. So it"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":372.66,"endTime":376.41,"body":"was waiting there to greet me"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":376.47,"endTime":377.46,"body":"when I came back."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":377.93,"endTime":381.23,"body":"Well, John, you are in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":377.93,"endTime":381.23,"body":"same sex marriage with your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":381.23,"endTime":383.9,"body":"husband. Tell us how you relate"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":381.23,"endTime":383.9,"body":"to the Proclamation."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":383.88,"endTime":386.37,"body":"I remember the first time"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":383.88,"endTime":386.37,"body":"I read the Proclamation on the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":386.37,"endTime":391.32,"body":"Family, my gut reaction being"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":386.37,"endTime":391.32,"body":"there's a lot of good stuff in"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":391.32,"endTime":394.32,"body":"here. It gives us an important"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":391.32,"endTime":394.32,"body":"piece, but it doesn't tell us"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":394.32,"endTime":399.21,"body":"everything. I interpret"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":394.32,"endTime":399.21,"body":"everything in the church, and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":399.21,"endTime":404.31,"body":"everything really, that gets"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":399.21,"endTime":404.31,"body":"thrown at me in my life through"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":404.52,"endTime":408.6,"body":"the Urim and Thummim of my"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":404.52,"endTime":408.6,"body":"relationship with God in the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":408.93,"endTime":413.79,"body":"context of that relationship"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":408.93,"endTime":413.79,"body":"and, and knowledge that God has"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":413.79,"endTime":418.05,"body":"of me and that I have of God. I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":413.79,"endTime":418.05,"body":"know there's a place for me."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":418.38,"endTime":424.68,"body":"When I run into these lacunae"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":418.38,"endTime":424.68,"body":"in, in the churches teaching."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":425.6,"endTime":427.34,"body":"John, that word I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":425.6,"endTime":427.34,"body":"know, can you tell?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":427.34,"endTime":429.5,"body":"I don't know it either."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":427.34,"endTime":429.5,"body":"He's a Kimball scholar."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":431.46,"endTime":435.57,"body":"It means it means a hole,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":431.46,"endTime":435.57,"body":"you know, a hole, an empty"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":435.57,"endTime":440.58,"body":"space. And, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":435.57,"endTime":440.58,"body":"that one of the great challenges"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":440.58,"endTime":446.1,"body":"if you are gay or lesbian, or bi"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":440.58,"endTime":446.1,"body":"or trans or or if you identify"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":446.1,"endTime":450.57,"body":"as gender non-binary, or queer"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":446.1,"endTime":450.57,"body":"or whatever, however you"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":450.57,"endTime":453.75,"body":"identify in terms of your sexual"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":450.57,"endTime":453.75,"body":"orientation, or your gender"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":453.75,"endTime":457.2,"body":"identity, one of the challenges"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":453.75,"endTime":457.2,"body":"if you're, you know, if you have"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":457.2,"endTime":461.61,"body":"a testimony of the gospel, is"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":457.2,"endTime":461.61,"body":"that there are these big"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":461.61,"endTime":465.63,"body":"unanswered questions. You know,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":461.61,"endTime":465.63,"body":"these big holes, you know, why"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":465.66,"endTime":469.71,"body":"why, why is this? Why am I this"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":465.66,"endTime":469.71,"body":"way? Why did this happen to me?"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":469.89,"endTime":473.79,"body":"Sometimes we get answers, and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":469.89,"endTime":473.79,"body":"sometimes really, the only or"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":473.79,"endTime":477.69,"body":"the best answer is \"I don't"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":473.79,"endTime":477.69,"body":"know.\" Because all the ones that"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":477.69,"endTime":482.01,"body":"have been proposed, you know,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":477.69,"endTime":482.01,"body":"that, that people have tried to"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":482.01,"endTime":487.11,"body":"come up with to explain it"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":482.01,"endTime":487.11,"body":"either are harmful or just are"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":487.11,"endTime":490.5,"body":"not, you know, they don't"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":487.11,"endTime":490.5,"body":"harmonize with my lived"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":490.5,"endTime":494.34,"body":"experience. I read a document"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":490.5,"endTime":494.34,"body":"like The Proclamation on the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":494.34,"endTime":497.73,"body":"Family and I think, well, this"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":494.34,"endTime":497.73,"body":"is this is good. I, there are"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":497.73,"endTime":502.11,"body":"parts of myself that I see in"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":497.73,"endTime":502.11,"body":"here. But for the most part, my"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":502.11,"endTime":504.72,"body":"gut reaction was just this"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":502.11,"endTime":504.72,"body":"doesn't really address my"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":504.72,"endTime":509.31,"body":"situation. It tells us important"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":504.72,"endTime":509.31,"body":"things about family. And, you"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":509.31,"endTime":513.87,"body":"know, it says some things about"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":509.31,"endTime":513.87,"body":"men and women that I don't know"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":513.87,"endTime":517.02,"body":"if it holds up, because I think"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":513.87,"endTime":517.02,"body":"men are nurturers and women are"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":517.02,"endTime":521.04,"body":"providers too. To me, it just"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":517.02,"endTime":521.04,"body":"doesn't seem truthful to say"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":521.1,"endTime":526.38,"body":"that our roles are so defined in"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":521.1,"endTime":526.38,"body":"this in this way. But But I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":526.38,"endTime":531.18,"body":"think what's really important is"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":526.38,"endTime":531.18,"body":"that families are critical."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":531.75,"endTime":536.07,"body":"They're absolutely crucial to"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":531.75,"endTime":536.07,"body":"our progression, our spiritual"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":536.07,"endTime":540.0,"body":"progression. And the bonds"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":536.07,"endTime":540.0,"body":"between parents and children and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":540.0,"endTime":544.11,"body":"the bonds that connect parents"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":540.0,"endTime":544.11,"body":"are, are just so crucial and so"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":544.11,"endTime":547.62,"body":"important. And the Proclamation"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":544.11,"endTime":547.62,"body":"does speak to that, you know, so"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":547.62,"endTime":549.87,"body":"I, so I resonate very much with"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":547.62,"endTime":549.87,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":549.96,"endTime":552.42,"body":"So John, what I'm hearing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":549.96,"endTime":552.42,"body":"you say is, you don't really see"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":552.42,"endTime":555.36,"body":"your relationship with your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":552.42,"endTime":555.36,"body":"husband in the Proclamation, but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":555.36,"endTime":557.82,"body":"to you that doesn't really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":555.36,"endTime":557.82,"body":"matter. Because there's still a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":557.82,"endTime":560.25,"body":"lot of unknown, but what you do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":557.82,"endTime":560.25,"body":"know is what your relationship"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":560.25,"endTime":561.03,"body":"with God is like?"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":561.0,"endTime":564.45,"body":"Well, you know, that's the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":561.0,"endTime":564.45,"body":"thing, though, is I've had"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":564.45,"endTime":567.81,"body":"plenty of experience. I mean,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":564.45,"endTime":567.81,"body":"I've been attending church for,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":567.87,"endTime":572.19,"body":"like 15 years now. So I've sat"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":567.87,"endTime":572.19,"body":"sat through many a priesthood"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":572.49,"endTime":575.22,"body":"lesson, where we've talked"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":572.49,"endTime":575.22,"body":"about, you know, the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":575.22,"endTime":578.37,"body":"relationship between a husband"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":575.22,"endTime":578.37,"body":"and a wife and about the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":578.37,"endTime":581.73,"body":"relationship between parents and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":578.37,"endTime":581.73,"body":"children, what it means to be a"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":581.73,"endTime":586.41,"body":"good spouse and what it means to"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":581.73,"endTime":586.41,"body":"be a good parent. And these are"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":586.41,"endTime":590.67,"body":"lessons that I absolutely relate"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":586.41,"endTime":590.67,"body":"to, and that I take right home"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":590.67,"endTime":595.23,"body":"and apply in my relationship"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":590.67,"endTime":595.23,"body":"with my husband. And so I've"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":595.23,"endTime":598.08,"body":"never sat through one of those"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":595.23,"endTime":598.08,"body":"lessons and felt like this is"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":598.08,"endTime":602.67,"body":"completely irrelevant to me. So"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":598.08,"endTime":602.67,"body":"I can just turn turn my mind and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":602.67,"endTime":605.31,"body":"heart off. You know, it's"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":602.67,"endTime":605.31,"body":"similar with the Proclamation."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":605.34,"endTime":609.06,"body":"There's definitely aspects of"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":605.34,"endTime":609.06,"body":"that, that I relate to very"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":609.06,"endTime":612.72,"body":"strongly. But there's the piece"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":609.06,"endTime":612.72,"body":"about \"a man and a woman,\" you"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":612.72,"endTime":615.48,"body":"know, that's where I kind of"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":612.72,"endTime":615.48,"body":"feel like--the church is"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":615.48,"endTime":621.57,"body":"speaking to what it knows, or"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":615.48,"endTime":621.57,"body":"what it knew. And it's, it's not"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":621.57,"endTime":625.05,"body":"speaking to what we don't know."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":621.57,"endTime":625.05,"body":"So it doesn't worry me. It"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":625.05,"endTime":628.32,"body":"doesn't make me angry. It"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":625.05,"endTime":628.32,"body":"doesn't make me feel like I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":628.32,"endTime":632.64,"body":"gotta, I gotta pitch the church"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":628.32,"endTime":632.64,"body":"because it doesn't have the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":632.64,"endTime":635.13,"body":"answer this particular question."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":634.71,"endTime":636.93,"body":"John, I really respect"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":634.71,"endTime":636.93,"body":"that. And I think it's a very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":636.93,"endTime":640.26,"body":"wise way to live. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":636.93,"endTime":640.26,"body":"there's a lot of things just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":640.26,"endTime":642.93,"body":"about life in general that cause"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":640.26,"endTime":642.93,"body":"friction. But I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":642.93,"endTime":645.9,"body":"there's good in everything, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":642.93,"endTime":645.9,"body":"at least you can look for good."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":646.23,"endTime":648.78,"body":"And I think it's really cool"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":646.23,"endTime":648.78,"body":"that you were, you take the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":648.78,"endTime":651.75,"body":"Proclamation kind of at that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":648.78,"endTime":651.75,"body":"level. And we've been talking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":651.75,"endTime":655.2,"body":"about sitting in different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":651.75,"endTime":655.2,"body":"lessons, where most--a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":655.2,"endTime":658.62,"body":"people will feel isolated or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":655.2,"endTime":658.62,"body":"left out. And just to realize"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":658.62,"endTime":661.68,"body":"that there's still truth and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":658.62,"endTime":661.68,"body":"goodness, you can glean from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":661.68,"endTime":664.68,"body":"that experience, and to just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":661.68,"endTime":664.68,"body":"kind of like, take the good, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":664.68,"endTime":667.71,"body":"whatever causes like, harm or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":664.68,"endTime":667.71,"body":"dissonance, maybe just kind of,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":667.71,"endTime":671.76,"body":"like, leave that where it is."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":667.71,"endTime":671.76,"body":"And I feel like that's a very,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":671.76,"endTime":673.98,"body":"like, positive way to live."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":671.76,"endTime":673.98,"body":"That's really cool."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":674.86,"endTime":677.53,"body":"Well, you know, for me,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":674.86,"endTime":677.53,"body":"it's, it's kind of the only way"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":677.53,"endTime":680.89,"body":"to live. You know, I had an"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":677.53,"endTime":680.89,"body":"insight the other day, and that"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":680.89,"endTime":685.0,"body":"was just \"John,\" this is, this"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":680.89,"endTime":685.0,"body":"is the Lord speaking to me,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":685.45,"endTime":689.38,"body":"\"John, this is going to require"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":685.45,"endTime":689.38,"body":"patience. And I've taught you"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":689.86,"endTime":694.21,"body":"about patience, you know what"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":689.86,"endTime":694.21,"body":"patience is, and so you can"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":694.63,"endTime":698.71,"body":"apply it in this situation.\" And"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":694.63,"endTime":698.71,"body":"so that's, that's what I am"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":698.71,"endTime":702.88,"body":"doing now, you know, during this"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":698.71,"endTime":702.88,"body":"very, very difficult time that"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":702.88,"endTime":705.73,"body":"we're passing through as a"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":702.88,"endTime":705.73,"body":"nation. You know, it's just"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":705.73,"endTime":708.91,"body":"like, there's no value really in"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":705.73,"endTime":708.91,"body":"freaking out."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":709.15,"endTime":710.83,"body":"Ben, what's your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":709.15,"endTime":710.83,"body":"relationship with the Family"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":710.83,"endTime":711.85,"body":"Proclamation like?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":711.93,"endTime":715.41,"body":"Well, I'll share one quick"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":711.93,"endTime":715.41,"body":"experience. So when I moved to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":715.41,"endTime":718.77,"body":"Tucson in 2012, to do graduate"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":715.41,"endTime":718.77,"body":"work at the University of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":718.77,"endTime":722.43,"body":"Arizona, I gave one of my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":718.77,"endTime":722.43,"body":"colleagues a ride home one day,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":722.67,"endTime":724.74,"body":"and he wasn't a member of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":722.67,"endTime":724.74,"body":"church, wasn't super familiar"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":724.74,"endTime":727.98,"body":"with the church. And so he asked"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":724.74,"endTime":727.98,"body":"me what the church's stance was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":727.98,"endTime":731.7,"body":"on same sex marriage. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":727.98,"endTime":731.7,"body":"quoted to him the Family"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":731.7,"endTime":734.7,"body":"\"We"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":731.7,"endTime":734.7,"body":"believe that marriage is only"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":734.7,"endTime":738.69,"body":"between a man and a woman.\" And"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":734.7,"endTime":738.69,"body":"he was very kind and respectful"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":738.69,"endTime":741.18,"body":"of that. And then when I got"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":738.69,"endTime":741.18,"body":"home, I decided to write him an"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":741.18,"endTime":743.64,"body":"email to just kind of follow up"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":741.18,"endTime":743.64,"body":"and share some of my thoughts."},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":743.64,"endTime":747.66,"body":"And I pulled up the Proclamation"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":743.64,"endTime":747.66,"body":"to show him this, this line that"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":747.66,"endTime":750.12,"body":"says that marriage is only"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":747.66,"endTime":750.12,"body":"between a man and a woman. And I"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":750.12,"endTime":752.97,"body":"didn't find that, which honestly"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":750.12,"endTime":752.97,"body":"shocked me, because that's how"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":752.97,"endTime":755.55,"body":"it always been taught to me."},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":752.97,"endTime":755.55,"body":"Like, this document shows that"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":755.55,"endTime":758.19,"body":"marriage is only only between a"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":755.55,"endTime":758.19,"body":"man and a woman. And so what it"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":758.19,"endTime":761.13,"body":"does say is marriage between a"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":758.19,"endTime":761.13,"body":"man and woman is ordained of"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":761.13,"endTime":764.4,"body":"God, \"We solemnly proclaim that"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":761.13,"endTime":764.4,"body":"marriage between a man and woman"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":764.46,"endTime":767.01,"body":"is ordained of God, that the"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":764.46,"endTime":767.01,"body":"family is central to the"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":767.01,"endTime":769.77,"body":"Creator's plan for the eternal"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":767.01,"endTime":769.77,"body":"destiny of his children.\" And"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":769.77,"endTime":772.53,"body":"then it reiterates that teaching"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":769.77,"endTime":772.53,"body":"later on, it says \"The family is"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":772.53,"endTime":774.81,"body":"ordained of God, marriage"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":772.53,"endTime":774.81,"body":"between a man and woman is"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":774.81,"endTime":778.23,"body":"essential to his eternal plan.\""},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":774.81,"endTime":778.23,"body":"And that really got my my gears"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":778.23,"endTime":780.57,"body":"going, thinking, you know, okay,"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":778.23,"endTime":780.57,"body":"so marriage between a man or"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":780.57,"endTime":784.89,"body":"woman is ordained of God, and it"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":780.57,"endTime":784.89,"body":"is central to his plan. And I"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":784.89,"endTime":788.13,"body":"thought about like, my own"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":784.89,"endTime":788.13,"body":"family. Like I come from a, I"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":788.13,"endTime":790.14,"body":"mean, we're not a picture"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":788.13,"endTime":790.14,"body":"perfect family, but we're pretty"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":790.14,"endTime":794.01,"body":"ideal. You know, I have two"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":790.14,"endTime":794.01,"body":"parents who love me and care"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":794.01,"endTime":798.81,"body":"about me, and who were just"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":794.01,"endTime":798.81,"body":"like, so active and involved in"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":798.81,"endTime":802.89,"body":"my life. And so I feel like"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":798.81,"endTime":802.89,"body":"like, as a child, like I was"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":802.89,"endTime":807.84,"body":"raised in, in the best situation"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":802.89,"endTime":807.84,"body":"that child of God could ask for,"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":807.87,"endTime":811.65,"body":"honestly. And I mean, that like"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":807.87,"endTime":811.65,"body":"the best situation possible. And"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":811.65,"endTime":813.99,"body":"so as I see the principles"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":811.65,"endTime":813.99,"body":"stated in the, in the"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":813.99,"endTime":817.92,"body":"Proclamation about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":813.99,"endTime":817.92,"body":"what, what good parents do, you"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":817.92,"endTime":821.58,"body":"know, \"husbands and wives are"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":817.92,"endTime":821.58,"body":"responsible to care for each"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":821.58,"endTime":824.13,"body":"other, and to love each other.\""},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":821.58,"endTime":824.13,"body":"Like, I saw that, and \"they're"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":824.13,"endTime":827.13,"body":"responsible to teach their"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":824.13,"endTime":827.13,"body":"children.\" And I saw that and,"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":827.16,"endTime":831.09,"body":"and as you know, mother, like my"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":827.16,"endTime":831.09,"body":"mother was nurturing my dad"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":831.09,"endTime":833.88,"body":"provided for us. And my mom also"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":831.09,"endTime":833.88,"body":"provided. There was a time where"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":833.88,"endTime":837.45,"body":"she made a lot more money than"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":833.88,"endTime":837.45,"body":"my dad. And, and their roles"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":837.45,"endTime":839.61,"body":"were a little reversed, like"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":837.45,"endTime":839.61,"body":"when my dad started working from"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":839.61,"endTime":841.89,"body":"home when I was a kid. And so he"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":839.61,"endTime":841.89,"body":"was the one who took me to"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":841.89,"endTime":843.93,"body":"doctors and took care of me when"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":841.89,"endTime":843.93,"body":"I was sick at home, you know."},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":844.38,"endTime":847.14,"body":"Those roles changed a little"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":844.38,"endTime":847.14,"body":"bit. But to me, the Proclamation"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":847.14,"endTime":849.84,"body":"wasn't really a tough thing. It"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":847.14,"endTime":849.84,"body":"honestly really never has been."},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":850.44,"endTime":853.08,"body":"Just because I've I've always"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":850.44,"endTime":853.08,"body":"seen that, like the family I'm"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":853.08,"endTime":856.98,"body":"part of in it. And the hard"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":853.08,"endTime":856.98,"body":"thing now is when people--like I"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":856.98,"endTime":859.08,"body":"personally like when I read the"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":856.98,"endTime":859.08,"body":"Proclamation, I don't feel"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":859.11,"endTime":861.78,"body":"angst, I don't feel anger, I"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":859.11,"endTime":861.78,"body":"don't feel hurt. I don't feel"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":861.78,"endTime":864.45,"body":"like it's attacking me. But I"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":861.78,"endTime":864.45,"body":"feel like people have used it to"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":864.45,"endTime":868.92,"body":"attack me. And that that has"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":864.45,"endTime":868.92,"body":"been a hard thing. So the actual"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":868.92,"endTime":871.83,"body":"words in the Proclamation to me"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":868.92,"endTime":871.83,"body":"personally, have never been"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":871.83,"endTime":875.07,"body":"hard, especially once I actually"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":871.83,"endTime":875.07,"body":"started studying them. And I"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":875.07,"endTime":877.17,"body":"started to pull apart--well,"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":875.07,"endTime":877.17,"body":"this is what the Proclamation"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":877.17,"endTime":880.86,"body":"says. And this is what it"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":877.17,"endTime":880.86,"body":"doesn't say. And so when I focus"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":880.86,"endTime":883.14,"body":"on what it actually says, and"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":880.86,"endTime":883.14,"body":"not how it's been interpreted"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":883.14,"endTime":886.65,"body":"and used to attack me, I think"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":883.14,"endTime":886.65,"body":"to me, it's actually been a"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":886.65,"endTime":889.29,"body":"document that has not caused me"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":886.65,"endTime":889.29,"body":"any problems. How about you,"},{"speaker":"Proclamation, I said","startTime":889.29,"endTime":889.56,"body":"Charlie?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":889.78,"endTime":892.39,"body":"I resonate with that a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":889.78,"endTime":892.39,"body":"lot. I think it's interesting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":892.39,"endTime":894.85,"body":"because growing up the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":892.39,"endTime":894.85,"body":"Proclamation was kind of like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":894.91,"endTime":898.06,"body":"the like a physical"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":894.91,"endTime":898.06,"body":"manifestation of the love I had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":898.06,"endTime":902.47,"body":"for my family. It's like it it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":898.06,"endTime":902.47,"body":"somehow like, it's become like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":902.47,"endTime":907.81,"body":"cultural icon of, of a family"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":902.47,"endTime":907.81,"body":"unit, right? And so like, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":907.81,"endTime":910.24,"body":"have one in my home, and it just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":907.81,"endTime":910.24,"body":"reminded, like seeing that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":910.24,"endTime":912.7,"body":"document on the wall, but it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":910.24,"endTime":912.7,"body":"made me think of how much I love"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":912.7,"endTime":916.39,"body":"my family. And then my parents"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":912.7,"endTime":916.39,"body":"got divorced. And then all of a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":916.39,"endTime":919.63,"body":"sudden, like, my family didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":916.39,"endTime":919.63,"body":"really fit The Proclamation and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":919.63,"endTime":922.66,"body":"like, the way that I thought the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":919.63,"endTime":922.66,"body":"family was supposed to be was no"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":922.66,"endTime":926.14,"body":"longer my family. And so I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":922.66,"endTime":926.14,"body":"think, from kind of like a young"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":926.14,"endTime":929.44,"body":"age, I was dealing with, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":926.14,"endTime":929.44,"body":"conflicting feelings about the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":929.44,"endTime":933.34,"body":"Proclamation and how me and my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":929.44,"endTime":933.34,"body":"family would even fit into that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":933.55,"endTime":936.37,"body":"That being said, I remember the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":933.55,"endTime":936.37,"body":"first time I actually remember"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":936.37,"endTime":940.0,"body":"very vividly the first time it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":936.37,"endTime":940.0,"body":"was was ever used, like you were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":940.0,"endTime":944.62,"body":"saying, as a weapon against"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":940.0,"endTime":944.62,"body":"LGBTQ people. It was in 2008,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":944.65,"endTime":947.2,"body":"when the church was involved in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":944.65,"endTime":947.2,"body":"Proposition Eight in California."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":947.62,"endTime":952.96,"body":"I was in, let's see, how would I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":947.62,"endTime":952.96,"body":"have been? Maybe like 13 or 14,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":953.32,"endTime":956.23,"body":"and I was in a Sunday school"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":953.32,"endTime":956.23,"body":"lesson. And the Sunday school"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":956.23,"endTime":959.65,"body":"lesson was about how gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":956.23,"endTime":959.65,"body":"marriage was wrong. And the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":959.65,"endTime":963.01,"body":"whole hour was about how, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":959.65,"endTime":963.01,"body":"\"sign of the times\" Proposition"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":963.01,"endTime":965.92,"body":"Eight, Family Proclamation,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":963.01,"endTime":965.92,"body":"like, like the takeaway I got"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":965.92,"endTime":970.93,"body":"from the lesson was that the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":965.92,"endTime":970.93,"body":"prophets had foreseen the evil"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":970.93,"endTime":974.11,"body":"of gay marriage and that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":970.93,"endTime":974.11,"body":"needed to shun gay people, even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":974.11,"endTime":977.68,"body":"more than I already was. It was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":974.11,"endTime":977.68,"body":"really interesting. Like, I have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":977.68,"endTime":980.65,"body":"a lot of interesting dynamics"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":977.68,"endTime":980.65,"body":"with this document and how it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":980.65,"endTime":985.21,"body":"affected like my family unit."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":980.65,"endTime":985.21,"body":"But also me personally, I used"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":985.21,"endTime":991.54,"body":"it to weaponize like against"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":985.21,"endTime":991.54,"body":"myself. So I don't know maybe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":991.54,"endTime":994.66,"body":"people can relate to that. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":991.54,"endTime":994.66,"body":"then growing up now that I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":994.66,"endTime":999.73,"body":"like, out, and I'm openly gay, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":994.66,"endTime":999.73,"body":"have felt what Ben saying a lot."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":999.73,"endTime":1004.05,"body":"Like the words themselves don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":999.73,"endTime":1004.05,"body":"really jar me because like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1004.05,"endTime":1006.87,"body":"like, yeah, marriage is so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1004.05,"endTime":1006.87,"body":"beautiful. And I love when a man"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1006.87,"endTime":1010.53,"body":"and a woman create life and have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1006.87,"endTime":1010.53,"body":"a family unit and can like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1010.62,"endTime":1013.53,"body":"create a beautiful Christ inner"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1010.62,"endTime":1013.53,"body":"dynamic in the home. Like, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1013.53,"endTime":1019.05,"body":"is so wonderful to me. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1013.53,"endTime":1019.05,"body":"have had it used and quoted and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1019.05,"endTime":1023.07,"body":"like sent to me in messages,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1019.05,"endTime":1023.07,"body":"trying to like disqualify my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1023.07,"endTime":1026.55,"body":"feelings or tell me that me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1023.07,"endTime":1026.55,"body":"coming out was wrong. And that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1026.55,"endTime":1030.6,"body":"I'm like, toying too close to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1026.55,"endTime":1030.6,"body":"the edge. And that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1030.6,"endTime":1033.69,"body":"really, I don't know, that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1030.6,"endTime":1033.69,"body":"harmful. And I think the purpose"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1033.69,"endTime":1038.07,"body":"of the church or the purpose of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1033.69,"endTime":1038.07,"body":"the gospel is never really to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1038.07,"endTime":1041.49,"body":"isolate or judge another person."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1038.07,"endTime":1041.49,"body":"So if we're using this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1041.49,"endTime":1044.07,"body":"Proclamation to do that, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1041.49,"endTime":1044.07,"body":"might kind of need to check the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1044.07,"endTime":1047.13,"body":"purpose of it, and also our"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1044.07,"endTime":1047.13,"body":"intentions."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1049.07,"endTime":1051.92,"body":"You know, Ben, you"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1049.07,"endTime":1051.92,"body":"triggered something for me. And"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1052.25,"endTime":1056.09,"body":"it reminded me very much of my"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1052.25,"endTime":1056.09,"body":"reaction when I actually read"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1056.09,"endTime":1059.57,"body":"the document, because I remember"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1056.09,"endTime":1059.57,"body":"reading those statements about"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1060.05,"endTime":1065.9,"body":"and thinking, \"Yes, amen. Amen.\""},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1060.05,"endTime":1065.9,"body":"Like, I absolutely believe that"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1065.99,"endTime":1070.34,"body":"marriage between a man and a"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1065.99,"endTime":1070.34,"body":"woman is is ordained of God and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1070.52,"endTime":1074.6,"body":"families ordained of God, and so"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1070.52,"endTime":1074.6,"body":"on. So it wasn't that I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1074.78,"endTime":1079.01,"body":"necessarily took issue with"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1074.78,"endTime":1079.01,"body":"anything that was overtly stated"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1079.01,"endTime":1082.07,"body":"in there. It's just, I thought,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1079.01,"endTime":1082.07,"body":"there's more to this story"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1082.1,"endTime":1086.42,"body":"that's not being--that isn't"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1082.1,"endTime":1086.42,"body":"here. There's tons of stuff in"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1086.42,"endTime":1091.28,"body":"the church that can be taken and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1086.42,"endTime":1091.28,"body":"weaponized. I mean, I think one"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1091.28,"endTime":1094.4,"body":"of the things that was really"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1091.28,"endTime":1094.4,"body":"powerful for me about coming"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1094.4,"endTime":1100.7,"body":"back to the church was that I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1094.4,"endTime":1100.7,"body":"was I had a sort of Sunday"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1100.7,"endTime":1105.44,"body":"school narrative in my head,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1100.7,"endTime":1105.44,"body":"about what the Scriptures said,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1106.61,"endTime":1110.57,"body":"that had sort of been inculcated"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1106.61,"endTime":1110.57,"body":"into me from, you know, the time"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1110.57,"endTime":1114.86,"body":"that I was very young. And then"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1110.57,"endTime":1114.86,"body":"I had spent 19 years away from"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1114.86,"endTime":1119.75,"body":"the church, learning a lot of"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1114.86,"endTime":1119.75,"body":"things and being active in other"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1119.75,"endTime":1124.22,"body":"churches and exploring other"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1119.75,"endTime":1124.22,"body":"forms of spirituality. And I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1124.22,"endTime":1127.73,"body":"came back because I had this"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1124.22,"endTime":1127.73,"body":"very powerful spiritual"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1127.73,"endTime":1131.69,"body":"experience where it was just"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1127.73,"endTime":1131.69,"body":"this undeniable, like the Lord"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1131.69,"endTime":1135.44,"body":"was saying, \"You need to go"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1131.69,"endTime":1135.44,"body":"back.\" In my head, I just, I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1135.44,"endTime":1139.25,"body":"doubted everything. I was pretty"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1135.44,"endTime":1139.25,"body":"sure that the church was false."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1140.12,"endTime":1143.0,"body":"Right? And I was like, but God"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1140.12,"endTime":1143.0,"body":"wants me to go back for some"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1143.0,"endTime":1146.84,"body":"reason. I remember just having a"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1143.0,"endTime":1146.84,"body":"really profound spiritual"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1146.84,"endTime":1150.29,"body":"experience around, \"You need to"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1146.84,"endTime":1150.29,"body":"read the Book of Mormon,\""},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1150.41,"endTime":1153.44,"body":"because I hadn't really been,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1150.41,"endTime":1153.44,"body":"you know, doing that up until"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1153.44,"endTime":1156.11,"body":"that point. I had just been"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1153.44,"endTime":1156.11,"body":"going to church on Sunday. And,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1156.41,"endTime":1159.2,"body":"you know, I had this old"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1156.41,"endTime":1159.2,"body":"tattered book that somebody had"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1159.2,"endTime":1162.26,"body":"given me as a joke that they'd"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1159.2,"endTime":1162.26,"body":"picked up at some garage sale,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1162.26,"endTime":1166.34,"body":"and it was like, published in"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1162.26,"endTime":1166.34,"body":"like, 1958, or something like"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1166.34,"endTime":1168.62,"body":"that. And so it was like,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1166.34,"endTime":1168.62,"body":"literally falling apart in my"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1168.62,"endTime":1173.63,"body":"hands. It was the only Book of"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1168.62,"endTime":1173.63,"body":"Mormon, I had in the house. And"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1173.63,"endTime":1178.37,"body":"so I, I sat down with this thing"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1173.63,"endTime":1178.37,"body":"on my lap, and I, I was like, I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1178.37,"endTime":1182.39,"body":"can't just start reading this, I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1178.37,"endTime":1182.39,"body":"have to pray first. This"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1182.42,"endTime":1186.02,"body":"incredible spiritual experience."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1182.42,"endTime":1186.02,"body":"And one of the things that was"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1186.02,"endTime":1190.61,"body":"I'm going"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1186.02,"endTime":1190.61,"body":"to read this book and see if"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1190.61,"endTime":1194.93,"body":"it's relevant to me now. In"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1190.61,"endTime":1194.93,"body":"light of everything I know about"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1194.93,"endTime":1198.2,"body":"being you know, away from the"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1194.93,"endTime":1198.2,"body":"church and all the experiences"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1198.2,"endTime":1201.47,"body":"I've gone through and now being"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1198.2,"endTime":1201.47,"body":"In a committed same sex"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1201.47,"endTime":1205.97,"body":"relationship, like, does this"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1201.47,"endTime":1205.97,"body":"book have any significance or"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1205.97,"endTime":1211.28,"body":"any meaning to me now? Every"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1205.97,"endTime":1211.28,"body":"page was just full of--I mean, I"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1211.28,"endTime":1215.42,"body":"still have all of the notes that"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1211.28,"endTime":1215.42,"body":"I kept from that first time"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1215.42,"endTime":1218.12,"body":"read, you know, reading the Book"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1215.42,"endTime":1218.12,"body":"of Mormon again, real and it"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1218.12,"endTime":1221.06,"body":"felt like for the first time in"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1218.12,"endTime":1221.06,"body":"many ways. And you know, what"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1221.06,"endTime":1224.93,"body":"I've learned from this"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1221.06,"endTime":1224.93,"body":"experience is what people think"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1224.93,"endTime":1228.47,"body":"the Scriptures say, and what the"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1224.93,"endTime":1228.47,"body":"Scriptures actually say, is"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1228.47,"endTime":1232.79,"body":"often two completely different"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1228.47,"endTime":1232.79,"body":"things. So we owe it to"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1232.79,"endTime":1235.55,"body":"ourselves to put out of our"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1232.79,"endTime":1235.55,"body":"heads, the things that people"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1235.55,"endTime":1239.57,"body":"tell us, we're supposed to"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1235.55,"endTime":1239.57,"body":"think, just interact directly"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1239.81,"endTime":1244.28,"body":"with God and with the scriptures"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1239.81,"endTime":1244.28,"body":"and see what they say to us."},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1244.34,"endTime":1248.18,"body":"And, and let that be our guide."},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1244.34,"endTime":1248.18,"body":"And, you know, that's, that's"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1248.18,"endTime":1250.28,"body":"how I approach the scriptures."},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1248.18,"endTime":1250.28,"body":"It's how I approach the"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1250.28,"endTime":1252.35,"body":"Proclamation of the Family as"},{"speaker":"really clear to me is","startTime":1250.28,"endTime":1252.35,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1252.66,"endTime":1255.21,"body":"Yeah, John, I love that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1252.66,"endTime":1255.21,"body":"Because what I what I see you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1255.21,"endTime":1259.89,"body":"doing is not letting like, hurt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1255.21,"endTime":1259.89,"body":"or even disbelief, keep you from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1259.89,"endTime":1263.37,"body":"engaging with God, and really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1259.89,"endTime":1263.37,"body":"let him teach you. Just a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1263.37,"endTime":1265.38,"body":"thought I've had, as I've been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1263.37,"endTime":1265.38,"body":"reflecting on what the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1265.38,"endTime":1268.77,"body":"Proclamation teaches during our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1265.38,"endTime":1268.77,"body":"conversation--you know, I really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1268.77,"endTime":1271.41,"body":"love that it you know, it starts"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1268.77,"endTime":1271.41,"body":"out by saying that, like, we are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1271.41,"endTime":1275.01,"body":"children of heavenly parents,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1271.41,"endTime":1275.01,"body":"they love us, and we're supposed"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1275.01,"endTime":1277.77,"body":"to become like them. And then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1275.01,"endTime":1277.77,"body":"the whole document, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1277.77,"endTime":1279.78,"body":"just talks about, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1277.77,"endTime":1279.78,"body":"is the life of our father and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1279.78,"endTime":1282.6,"body":"mother. And it's meant for their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1279.78,"endTime":1282.6,"body":"children too. Like this was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1282.6,"endTime":1285.57,"body":"meant for us too. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1282.6,"endTime":1285.57,"body":"that thought about, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1285.57,"endTime":1287.82,"body":"don't know much about our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1285.57,"endTime":1287.82,"body":"Heavenly Mother. But if a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1287.82,"endTime":1291.87,"body":"woman's role as stated the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1287.82,"endTime":1291.87,"body":"Proclamation is primarily, she's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1291.87,"endTime":1294.24,"body":"primarily responsible for the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1291.87,"endTime":1294.24,"body":"nurture for children, then that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1294.24,"endTime":1296.94,"body":"means that our Heavenly Mother"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1294.24,"endTime":1296.94,"body":"is primarily responsible for our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1296.94,"endTime":1299.82,"body":"nurturing. And like, what do we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1296.94,"endTime":1299.82,"body":"know about that? Like, how does"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1299.82,"endTime":1302.7,"body":"that work? Like, we don't know."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1299.82,"endTime":1302.7,"body":"Like, there's still so much more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1302.76,"endTime":1305.94,"body":"that we don't know. As, as I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1302.76,"endTime":1305.94,"body":"as I pondered those words, in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1305.94,"endTime":1309.36,"body":"the, in the Proclamation about,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1305.94,"endTime":1309.36,"body":"you know, about how this is how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1309.36,"endTime":1312.9,"body":"God the Mother and God the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1309.36,"endTime":1312.9,"body":"Father live, and that's how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1312.9,"endTime":1315.63,"body":"we're supposed to live too. It"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1312.9,"endTime":1315.63,"body":"just kind of like, to me it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1315.63,"endTime":1319.38,"body":"it's soul expanding, and it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1315.63,"endTime":1319.38,"body":"makes me want to be someone who,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1319.41,"endTime":1320.88,"body":"who can live a godlike life,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1321.02,"endTime":1324.35,"body":"Right. Well, that, for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1321.02,"endTime":1324.35,"body":"me, even the first lines about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1324.83,"endTime":1329.24,"body":"being a beloved child of God is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1324.83,"endTime":1329.24,"body":"so integral. And it's so funny,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1329.24,"endTime":1331.34,"body":"because I mean, I grew up"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1329.24,"endTime":1331.34,"body":"hearing that over and over and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1331.34,"endTime":1334.79,"body":"over again, but I never really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1331.34,"endTime":1334.79,"body":"believed it, because I always"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1334.79,"endTime":1337.73,"body":"thought I was a mistake, right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1334.79,"endTime":1337.73,"body":"I thought, because I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1337.73,"endTime":1341.42,"body":"attracted to the same gender,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1337.73,"endTime":1341.42,"body":"that something about me was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1341.42,"endTime":1347.36,"body":"like, wrong. And so in that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1341.42,"endTime":1347.36,"body":"line, as like, all parts of me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1347.45,"endTime":1351.2,"body":"like, I'm a son of God, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1347.45,"endTime":1351.2,"body":"there's beauty, there's divinity"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1351.2,"endTime":1354.44,"body":"to me. And so I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1351.2,"endTime":1354.44,"body":"that's just a nice thought I had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.5,"endTime":1358.19,"body":"while Ben was saying that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.5,"endTime":1358.19,"body":"because, because that truth was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.19,"endTime":1360.74,"body":"something I needed to learn. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.19,"endTime":1360.74,"body":"it was there in the Family"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1360.74,"endTime":1363.68,"body":"Proclamation, which I have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1360.74,"endTime":1363.68,"body":"conflicting feelings about, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1363.68,"endTime":1367.61,"body":"know. But it's like, if, if you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1363.68,"endTime":1367.61,"body":"just like, I guess, like, John,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1367.61,"endTime":1371.12,"body":"you were saying, to take your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1367.61,"endTime":1371.12,"body":"mind or your scripture study or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1371.12,"endTime":1375.89,"body":"your faith outside of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1371.12,"endTime":1375.89,"body":"restraints of like society, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1375.89,"endTime":1379.97,"body":"just really dig in and figure"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1375.89,"endTime":1379.97,"body":"out what you need from God, how"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1379.97,"endTime":1382.85,"body":"you need to connect, and all of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1379.97,"endTime":1382.85,"body":"these, I don't know, answers"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1382.85,"endTime":1387.2,"body":"that you were talking about? If"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1382.85,"endTime":1387.2,"body":"if we can, I think I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1387.2,"endTime":1389.9,"body":"agree with you, when you were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1387.2,"endTime":1389.9,"body":"saying that the safest answer is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1389.9,"endTime":1392.87,"body":"often \"I don't know.\" But I also"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1389.9,"endTime":1392.87,"body":"kind of want to add to that and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1392.87,"endTime":1397.04,"body":"say, once you get into those, \"I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1392.87,"endTime":1397.04,"body":"don't know\" spaces, that's where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1397.04,"endTime":1400.58,"body":"personal revelation can really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1397.04,"endTime":1400.58,"body":"kick in. And you can develop a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1400.58,"endTime":1404.54,"body":"relationship with heaven, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1400.58,"endTime":1404.54,"body":"you can find answers"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1404.54,"endTime":1407.63,"body":"specifically for you. And that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1404.54,"endTime":1407.63,"body":"just a really beautiful thing."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1408.2,"endTime":1411.41,"body":"Well, and there's also even a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1408.2,"endTime":1411.41,"body":"line that that says that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1411.44,"endTime":1414.02,"body":"different circumstances may"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1411.44,"endTime":1414.02,"body":"necessitate individual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1414.02,"endTime":1418.46,"body":"adaptation. And I think it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1414.02,"endTime":1418.46,"body":"funny because initially, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1418.46,"endTime":1420.89,"body":"the first times I read that, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1418.46,"endTime":1420.89,"body":"was like, oh, there's a couple"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1420.89,"endTime":1424.76,"body":"families who don't fit this. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1420.89,"endTime":1424.76,"body":"kind of like, that's EVERYONE"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1424.76,"endTime":1428.36,"body":"like that is a very important"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1424.76,"endTime":1428.36,"body":"line and, and no one is like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1428.99,"endTime":1432.89,"body":"perfectly in line with whatever"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1428.99,"endTime":1432.89,"body":"we think the \"ideal family\" is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1432.92,"endTime":1434.27,"body":"not even your family, Ben!"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1437.27,"endTime":1438.41,"body":"The Schilaty's are perfect."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1439.85,"endTime":1442.7,"body":"Like individual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1439.85,"endTime":1442.7,"body":"adaptation, personal revelation,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1442.7,"endTime":1444.41,"body":"that's so important, and we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1442.7,"endTime":1444.41,"body":"can't discount that."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1444.83,"endTime":1448.46,"body":"Well, so here's what's"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1444.83,"endTime":1448.46,"body":"really damaging is when you are"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1448.46,"endTime":1452.69,"body":"either explicitly or implicitly"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1448.46,"endTime":1452.69,"body":"given a message of:  \"If your"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1452.69,"endTime":1455.48,"body":"family doesn't look like this,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1452.69,"endTime":1455.48,"body":"there's something wrong with"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1455.48,"endTime":1461.03,"body":"you. You must have done"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1455.48,"endTime":1461.03,"body":"something wrong if your family"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1461.03,"endTime":1464.6,"body":"doesn't look like this.\" That's"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1461.03,"endTime":1464.6,"body":"such a damaging message,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1464.6,"endTime":1468.71,"body":"especially when most families"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1464.6,"endTime":1468.71,"body":"don't look like that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1469.02,"endTime":1472.53,"body":"You know, John, I, I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1469.02,"endTime":1472.53,"body":"spent a lot of my time in life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1472.53,"endTime":1476.58,"body":"as a prideful person. I think we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1472.53,"endTime":1476.58,"body":"can all relate. But but for a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1476.58,"endTime":1478.5,"body":"while, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1476.58,"endTime":1478.5,"body":"Proclamation to me was kinda"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1478.5,"endTime":1480.93,"body":"like like a pat on the back."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1478.5,"endTime":1480.93,"body":"Like look at how good my family"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1480.93,"endTime":1483.63,"body":"of origin is, like, we follow"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1480.93,"endTime":1483.63,"body":"all these principles. Like why"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1483.63,"endTime":1489.39,"body":"can't other people be be like be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1483.63,"endTime":1489.39,"body":"like us? And and, and I think"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1489.39,"endTime":1492.93,"body":"that was like such a damaging"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1489.39,"endTime":1492.93,"body":"thing for me to believe. And and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1492.93,"endTime":1495.36,"body":"then I like after this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1492.93,"endTime":1495.36,"body":"experience I had with with this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1495.39,"endTime":1498.21,"body":"with this colleague of mine at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1495.39,"endTime":1498.21,"body":"the University of Arizona, when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1498.21,"endTime":1501.24,"body":"I realized that it that it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1498.21,"endTime":1501.24,"body":"didn't say--well, what it said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1501.24,"endTime":1503.22,"body":"was that \"marriage between a man"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1501.24,"endTime":1503.22,"body":"and woman is ordained of God\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1503.22,"endTime":1506.79,"body":"and I thought, well, is it? Is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1503.22,"endTime":1506.79,"body":"it an either or? Is it a yes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1506.79,"endTime":1510.12,"body":"and? Like, could there be other"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1506.79,"endTime":1510.12,"body":"kinds of families that are also"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1510.12,"endTime":1514.05,"body":"valid and also good, and that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1510.12,"endTime":1514.05,"body":"gave me a lot of time, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1514.05,"endTime":1517.74,"body":"think and ponder and also get my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1514.05,"endTime":1517.74,"body":"mind expanded. And John, I think"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1517.74,"endTime":1522.15,"body":"if I had met you, when I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1517.74,"endTime":1522.15,"body":"like, 27, I would have, I would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1522.15,"endTime":1525.21,"body":"have just, like, rejected you,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1522.15,"endTime":1525.21,"body":"as someone who needed to change"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1525.21,"endTime":1527.46,"body":"his life. I honestly, I really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1525.21,"endTime":1527.46,"body":"think that's how I would have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1527.46,"endTime":1528.0,"body":"responded."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1528.5,"endTime":1532.31,"body":"And I am so grateful that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1528.5,"endTime":1532.31,"body":"have had enough experiences"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1528.6,"endTime":1529.11,"body":"Same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1532.31,"endTime":1536.03,"body":"where I've realized that that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1532.31,"endTime":1536.03,"body":"the family, like the family of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1536.03,"endTime":1539.45,"body":"God, includes all of us and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1536.03,"endTime":1539.45,"body":"includes all of God's children,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1539.72,"endTime":1542.96,"body":"and I am not supposed to reject"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1539.72,"endTime":1542.96,"body":"you, or think that you are less"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1542.96,"endTime":1547.19,"body":"worthy or less valid than I am."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1542.96,"endTime":1547.19,"body":"And like, honestly, like, had I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1547.19,"endTime":1549.95,"body":"done that, like--John, you you,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1547.19,"endTime":1549.95,"body":"like, shaped the course of my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1549.95,"endTime":1554.9,"body":"life before I even met you. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1549.95,"endTime":1554.9,"body":"you know, how much poorer are w"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1555.08,"endTime":1558.11,"body":", if we if we discount peop"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1555.08,"endTime":1558.11,"body":"e because they're not living"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1558.11,"endTime":1563.57,"body":"n this box? When when when I thi"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1558.11,"endTime":1563.57,"body":"k most of us don't? If someo"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1563.57,"endTime":1568.22,"body":"e came to you, someone who who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1563.57,"endTime":1568.22,"body":"s gay, and wants to be active"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1568.22,"endTime":1570.35,"body":"n the church, but was just feeli"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1568.22,"endTime":1570.35,"body":"g so much pain, because t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1570.35,"endTime":1573.59,"body":"e Proclamation, like what, wha"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1570.35,"endTime":1573.59,"body":"what piece of advice would yo"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1573.59,"endTime":1574.19,"body":"give to them"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1575.6,"endTime":1581.03,"body":"Well, first of all, that"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1575.6,"endTime":1581.03,"body":"happens all the time. Right? You"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1581.03,"endTime":1585.44,"body":"know, I'll just acknowledge"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1581.03,"endTime":1585.44,"body":"first up that LGBTQ people are"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1585.44,"endTime":1590.18,"body":"put in, in such a painful"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1585.44,"endTime":1590.18,"body":"position, not because the church"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1590.18,"endTime":1592.7,"body":"is so terrible, but because the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1590.18,"endTime":1592.7,"body":"church is so wonderful."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1593.15,"endTime":1593.84,"body":"How do you mean?"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1594.53,"endTime":1599.18,"body":"Well, because to have to"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1594.53,"endTime":1599.18,"body":"choose between the wonderful"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1599.18,"endTime":1605.96,"body":"good of the church, and, and the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1599.18,"endTime":1605.96,"body":"gospel, and the wonderful good,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1606.74,"endTime":1612.92,"body":"of your sexuality, your your,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1606.74,"endTime":1612.92,"body":"your God given identity, that's"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1612.92,"endTime":1616.25,"body":"a terrible choice. And there are"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1612.92,"endTime":1616.25,"body":"a lot of people who are just"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1616.28,"endTime":1621.17,"body":"like really profoundly in pain."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1616.28,"endTime":1621.17,"body":"When I've had those kinds of"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1621.17,"endTime":1624.8,"body":"conversations in the past, my"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1621.17,"endTime":1624.8,"body":"approach is really to try to"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1624.8,"endTime":1630.65,"body":"tease out from them where they"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1624.8,"endTime":1630.65,"body":"need to be. I've been practicing"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1630.65,"endTime":1635.3,"body":"yoga for years. And my yoga"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1630.65,"endTime":1635.3,"body":"instructors talk about the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1635.3,"endTime":1639.98,"body":"difference between discomfort"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1635.3,"endTime":1639.98,"body":"and pain. And they say pain is"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1639.98,"endTime":1644.48,"body":"bad. If, if you're experiencing"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1639.98,"endTime":1644.48,"body":"pain back out of that posture."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1644.93,"endTime":1648.11,"body":"It's it's not a good posture, if"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1644.93,"endTime":1648.11,"body":"you're experiencing pain,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1648.35,"endTime":1652.76,"body":"because it probably means you're"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1648.35,"endTime":1652.76,"body":"hurting yourself. But discomfort"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1653.3,"endTime":1658.55,"body":"is good. Right? We move through"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1653.3,"endTime":1658.55,"body":"discomfort and and we breathe"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1658.58,"endTime":1662.66,"body":"through discomfort and we, we"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1658.58,"endTime":1662.66,"body":"learn we learn from it, right?"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1662.66,"endTime":1666.89,"body":"Discomfort and pain teaches us"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1662.66,"endTime":1666.89,"body":"too, but discomfort can can"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1666.89,"endTime":1670.85,"body":"teach us and so if you're in one"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1666.89,"endTime":1670.85,"body":"of those situations where you're"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1670.85,"endTime":1674.42,"body":"in discomfort, but you can"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1670.85,"endTime":1674.42,"body":"breathe through it, then hey, I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1674.42,"endTime":1678.47,"body":"have some breathing techniques"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1674.42,"endTime":1678.47,"body":"for you. My breathing technique"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1678.47,"endTime":1683.93,"body":"is prayer. Right? I mean,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1678.47,"endTime":1683.93,"body":"ultimately, like that's how I I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1683.93,"endTime":1686.54,"body":"breathe through discomfort--how"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1683.93,"endTime":1686.54,"body":"I get through discomfort is"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1686.54,"endTime":1692.09,"body":"prayer, and, and studying the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1686.54,"endTime":1692.09,"body":"scriptures and, and trying to be"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1692.09,"endTime":1695.63,"body":"close to God. But if you're in"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1692.09,"endTime":1695.63,"body":"pain, and you're hurting"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1695.63,"endTime":1699.23,"body":"yourself, usually a sign of that"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1695.63,"endTime":1699.23,"body":"is if you're you know, if you're"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1699.23,"endTime":1702.8,"body":"experiencing like some severe"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1699.23,"endTime":1702.8,"body":"form of depression, if you're"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1702.8,"endTime":1705.65,"body":"thinking self harmful"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1702.8,"endTime":1705.65,"body":"thoughts--those are signs that"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1705.65,"endTime":1709.46,"body":"you're doing damage. And you"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1705.65,"endTime":1709.46,"body":"know what? It's okay to back"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1709.46,"endTime":1713.3,"body":"away. And, you know, I was"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1709.46,"endTime":1713.3,"body":"really lucky, I had a dad and I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1713.3,"endTime":1717.44,"body":"remember this moment--and I just"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1713.3,"endTime":1717.44,"body":"remember it clearly as if it"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1717.44,"endTime":1722.09,"body":"were yesterday--we're sitting in"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1717.44,"endTime":1722.09,"body":"an church getting ready for"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1722.09,"endTime":1725.84,"body":"sacrament meeting, my dad sort"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1722.09,"endTime":1725.84,"body":"of leans over to me, and he"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1725.84,"endTime":1730.31,"body":"says, he says, \"You are going to"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1725.84,"endTime":1730.31,"body":"have to figure out for yourself"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1731.21,"endTime":1735.02,"body":"if the church is true or not.\""},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1731.21,"endTime":1735.02,"body":"And this was the part that"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1735.02,"endTime":1740.63,"body":"stunned me, is his he said, \"If"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1735.02,"endTime":1740.63,"body":"you need to leave the church and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1740.63,"endTime":1746.96,"body":"explore other things, you can do"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1740.63,"endTime":1746.96,"body":"that.\" It is kind of a stunning"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1746.96,"endTime":1750.65,"body":"thing for my dad to say to me."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1746.96,"endTime":1750.65,"body":"And it was a powerful testimony"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1750.68,"endTime":1757.61,"body":"of my dad's trust in the Gospel."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1750.68,"endTime":1757.61,"body":"Because my dad trusted that the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1757.61,"endTime":1761.51,"body":"the gospel was bigger and more"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1757.61,"endTime":1761.51,"body":"powerful than anything that we"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1761.51,"endTime":1765.98,"body":"do. So if we need to take time"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1761.51,"endTime":1765.98,"body":"away, if we need to explore if"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1765.98,"endTime":1771.35,"body":"we need to try other things on"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1765.98,"endTime":1771.35,"body":"for size. If there's truth in"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1771.35,"endTime":1775.76,"body":"the Gospel, it will bring us"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1771.35,"endTime":1775.76,"body":"back. We need to really believe"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1775.79,"endTime":1781.01,"body":"in the truth and in the power of"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1775.79,"endTime":1781.01,"body":"the Atonement, and in the power"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1781.01,"endTime":1787.22,"body":"of truth. So, yeah, that's what"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1781.01,"endTime":1787.22,"body":"I would tell anybody. Like I I"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1787.22,"endTime":1791.12,"body":"think one of the most damaging"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1787.22,"endTime":1791.12,"body":"things is for people to feel"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1791.12,"endTime":1792.62,"body":"like they have no choice."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1792.74,"endTime":1796.28,"body":"And that that's so in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1792.74,"endTime":1796.28,"body":"line with the teachings of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1796.28,"endTime":1799.91,"body":"gospel lik,  God gives us"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1796.28,"endTime":1799.91,"body":"choice. He gives us agency and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1799.91,"endTime":1803.42,"body":"if we feel like we have no"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1799.91,"endTime":1803.42,"body":"choice, that idea that thought"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1803.42,"endTime":1806.03,"body":"is not coming from a place of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1803.42,"endTime":1806.03,"body":"light or goodness."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1806.51,"endTime":1809.9,"body":"That's absolutely right."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1806.51,"endTime":1809.9,"body":"People feel imprisoned in the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1809.9,"endTime":1813.35,"body":"church. And I because I remember"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1809.9,"endTime":1813.35,"body":"having this kind of mentality of"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1813.41,"endTime":1817.04,"body":"\"if I ever leave the church, I'm"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1813.41,"endTime":1817.04,"body":"going to be horribly miserable.\""},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1817.4,"endTime":1820.97,"body":"And so I thought \" I can't,\""},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1817.4,"endTime":1820.97,"body":"like I have no choice. And, and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1820.97,"endTime":1825.83,"body":"that sense of like, \"no"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1820.97,"endTime":1825.83,"body":"choiced-ness,\" like, that was"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1825.83,"endTime":1829.76,"body":"what was driving me towards"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1825.83,"endTime":1829.76,"body":"suicide. Because then I was kind"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1829.76,"endTime":1832.28,"body":"of like, I have no choice, and"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1829.76,"endTime":1832.28,"body":"I'm in this place of unbearable"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1832.28,"endTime":1833.24,"body":"pain, and ..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1833.57,"endTime":1834.41,"body":"You feel cornered,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1834.68,"endTime":1837.41,"body":"Right? You are trapped."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1834.68,"endTime":1837.41,"body":"And it's such a damning..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1837.41,"endTime":1838.4,"body":"And how do you get out?"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1838.73,"endTime":1843.86,"body":"Right? And, and so lacking"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1838.73,"endTime":1843.86,"body":"really, ultimately, in, like,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1843.92,"endTime":1847.04,"body":"again, if the gospel has value,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1843.92,"endTime":1847.04,"body":"if the gospel has truth, it"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1847.04,"endTime":1851.24,"body":"will, it will hold its own,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1847.04,"endTime":1851.24,"body":"against whatever we can bring to"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1851.24,"endTime":1859.85,"body":"it. And so, you know, sometimes"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1851.24,"endTime":1859.85,"body":"I feel like everybody in the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1859.85,"endTime":1865.85,"body":"church ought to take a \"church"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1859.85,"endTime":1865.85,"body":"vacation,\" if only just to see"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1865.85,"endTime":1868.49,"body":"what things are like--in the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1865.85,"endTime":1868.49,"body":"Evangelical Lutheran Church in"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1868.49,"endTime":1871.67,"body":"America, or in the Roman"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1868.49,"endTime":1871.67,"body":"Catholic Church, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1872.12,"endTime":1876.47,"body":"in the near local, reformed"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1872.12,"endTime":1876.47,"body":"Jewish synagogue, or the"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1876.47,"endTime":1881.0,"body":"Buddhist temple. Like, those"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1876.47,"endTime":1881.0,"body":"experiences can only enrich our"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1881.0,"endTime":1885.83,"body":"faith, that's, that's been my"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1881.0,"endTime":1885.83,"body":"experience. So to anybody who's"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1885.83,"endTime":1889.52,"body":"in pain, and who, to anybody"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1885.83,"endTime":1889.52,"body":"who's really struggling, I'd say"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1889.52,"endTime":1895.64,"body":"it's okay to let it go. Like, if"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1889.52,"endTime":1895.64,"body":"you think that the Proclamation"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1895.64,"endTime":1899.69,"body":"is just this, you know,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1895.64,"endTime":1899.69,"body":"horrible, evil, damaging"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1899.69,"endTime":1903.53,"body":"oppressive document, nobody's"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1899.69,"endTime":1903.53,"body":"forcing you to hold on to this"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1903.53,"endTime":1907.58,"body":"thing, like, let it go, go do"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1903.53,"endTime":1907.58,"body":"something else, and then see,"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1907.61,"endTime":1911.12,"body":"you know, see what you find. And"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1907.61,"endTime":1911.12,"body":"I think that's the best thing"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1911.12,"endTime":1915.41,"body":"any of us can do is to just"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":1911.12,"endTime":1915.41,"body":"embrace our agency."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1915.96,"endTime":1918.36,"body":"I think it's important"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1915.96,"endTime":1918.36,"body":"to note or something that has"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1918.36,"endTime":1921.42,"body":"helped me reconcile my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1918.36,"endTime":1921.42,"body":"conflicting feelings about the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1921.42,"endTime":1925.71,"body":"Family Proclamation is that this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1921.42,"endTime":1925.71,"body":"document is not the anchor of my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1925.71,"endTime":1928.83,"body":"testimony. It's not the keystone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1925.71,"endTime":1928.83,"body":"of my religion, it's very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1928.83,"endTime":1932.85,"body":"important. It has beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1928.83,"endTime":1932.85,"body":"eternal truths given through the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1932.85,"endTime":1936.96,"body":"mouth of a prophet. But if we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1932.85,"endTime":1936.96,"body":"not focused on Jesus Christ,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1936.99,"endTime":1939.57,"body":"we're missing the mark, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1936.99,"endTime":1939.57,"body":"something's always going to feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1939.57,"endTime":1943.02,"body":"empty there, there's always"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1939.57,"endTime":1943.02,"body":"going to be a sense of, of, then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1943.05,"endTime":1947.04,"body":"there needs to be more like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1943.05,"endTime":1947.04,"body":"that--you can't like connect if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1947.04,"endTime":1951.09,"body":"you're not focused on Jesus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1947.04,"endTime":1951.09,"body":"Christ. And so I think, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1951.09,"endTime":1955.35,"body":"know, sometimes culturally,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1951.09,"endTime":1955.35,"body":"especially like me, at my age,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1955.35,"endTime":1958.14,"body":"as all my friends are getting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1955.35,"endTime":1958.14,"body":"married, and like, just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1958.14,"endTime":1962.22,"body":"marriages all around me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1958.14,"endTime":1962.22,"body":"culturally, the Proclamation has"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1962.22,"endTime":1966.06,"body":"kind of become like, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1962.22,"endTime":1966.06,"body":"crowning jewel of the church and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1966.06,"endTime":1969.33,"body":"of the religion and I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1966.06,"endTime":1969.33,"body":"this age bracket that I'm in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1969.33,"endTime":1974.76,"body":"right now. But I think you kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1969.33,"endTime":1974.76,"body":"of miss out on a lot if you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1974.76,"endTime":1978.78,"body":"only focused on that. And, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1974.76,"endTime":1978.78,"body":"to me, the crowning jewel, at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1978.78,"endTime":1985.26,"body":"least of my testimony is the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1978.78,"endTime":1985.26,"body":"love of Jesus Christ. And that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1985.26,"endTime":1988.56,"body":"something that anchors me and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1985.26,"endTime":1988.56,"body":"helps me to sit and breathe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1988.56,"endTime":1992.19,"body":"through these discomfort,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1988.56,"endTime":1992.19,"body":"uncomfortable situations that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1992.25,"endTime":1993.54,"body":"that John was talking about."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1994.5,"endTime":1996.45,"body":"And Charlie, I like that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1994.5,"endTime":1996.45,"body":"you shared that because the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1996.45,"endTime":1998.85,"body":"truth is, all three of us aren't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1996.45,"endTime":1998.85,"body":"really living the principles in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1998.85,"endTime":2001.04,"body":"the Proclamation, if you will,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1998.85,"endTime":2001.04,"body":"because, you know, John, you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2001.04,"endTime":2004.76,"body":"in a same sex marriage. Charlie"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2001.04,"endTime":2004.76,"body":"and I are both single. And, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2004.76,"endTime":2007.37,"body":"know, like, personally, like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2004.76,"endTime":2007.37,"body":"have no plans to get married."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2007.61,"endTime":2011.12,"body":"And so I'm not I'm not really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2007.61,"endTime":2011.12,"body":"following the principles either."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2011.24,"endTime":2014.81,"body":"And yet, you know, as I as I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2011.24,"endTime":2014.81,"body":"turned to Jesus Christ...."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2016.4,"endTime":2019.25,"body":"That just sounds funny."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2016.4,"endTime":2019.25,"body":"And I was just imagining me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2019.25,"endTime":2022.58,"body":"making that snippet like this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2019.25,"endTime":2022.58,"body":"snippet, we share of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2022.58,"endTime":2026.57,"body":"podcast, \"We're not really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2022.58,"endTime":2026.57,"body":"following the principles..\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2028.97,"endTime":2031.61,"body":"Sorry, to break your train of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2028.97,"endTime":2031.61,"body":"thought."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2032.36,"endTime":2040.01,"body":"Okay, thank you for making"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2032.36,"endTime":2040.01,"body":"fun of me. But, but but my point"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2040.01,"endTime":2044.42,"body":"is that, you know, even though,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2040.01,"endTime":2044.42,"body":"you know, I'm single and not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2044.45,"endTime":2048.74,"body":"searching for a wife, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2044.45,"endTime":2048.74,"body":"not gonna have kids, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2048.74,"endTime":2052.16,"body":"as I focus on my relationship"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2048.74,"endTime":2052.16,"body":"with, with my Heavenly Parents,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2052.37,"endTime":2055.82,"body":"and with my earthly parents, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2052.37,"endTime":2055.82,"body":"my and the people around me, who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2055.82,"endTime":2059.57,"body":"are all part of my family, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2055.82,"endTime":2059.57,"body":"as I focus on Jesus Christ, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2059.6,"endTime":2062.39,"body":"all like, my life becomes really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2059.6,"endTime":2062.39,"body":"beautiful and really wonderful"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2062.39,"endTime":2065.06,"body":"and really meaningful. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2062.39,"endTime":2065.06,"body":"don't have to worry about the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2065.06,"endTime":2069.35,"body":"fact that I'm not sealed to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2065.06,"endTime":2069.35,"body":"partner for eternity. Because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2069.35,"endTime":2072.59,"body":"right now, that's not the focus."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2069.35,"endTime":2072.59,"body":"You know, right now, the focus"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2072.59,"endTime":2075.83,"body":"is to become like Jesus Christ."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2072.59,"endTime":2075.83,"body":"And I feel like God has put me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2076.28,"endTime":2080.21,"body":"in circumstances and with people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2076.28,"endTime":2080.21,"body":"that helped that that helped me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2080.21,"endTime":2081.23,"body":"to achieve that goal."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2081.85,"endTime":2082.9,"body":"Amen to that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2083.26,"endTime":2084.1,"body":"It's very nice."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2084.33,"endTime":2087.84,"body":"Amen to that. Yeah."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2084.33,"endTime":2087.84,"body":"There's so much there's so much"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2087.84,"endTime":2092.43,"body":"that we can do just to become"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2087.84,"endTime":2092.43,"body":"Christ-like. If the only thing"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2092.43,"endTime":2095.25,"body":"we focus on our life is to have"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2092.43,"endTime":2095.25,"body":"more patience, to have more"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2095.25,"endTime":2099.27,"body":"love, to look for where there's"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2095.25,"endTime":2099.27,"body":"pain and then to bring healing"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2099.27,"endTime":2103.41,"body":"and love to those situations, if"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2099.27,"endTime":2103.41,"body":"that's all we focus on in our"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2103.41,"endTime":2108.39,"body":"lives, that's such a huge work."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2103.41,"endTime":2108.39,"body":"Like there's so many people who"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2108.39,"endTime":2112.71,"body":"go through life and never really"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2108.39,"endTime":2112.71,"body":"learn what it means to be"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2112.71,"endTime":2116.37,"body":"selfless, that that pretty much"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2112.71,"endTime":2116.37,"body":"teaches us everything we need to"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2116.37,"endTime":2120.63,"body":"know about what we need to be."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2116.37,"endTime":2120.63,"body":"And all three of us can work on"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2120.63,"endTime":2123.75,"body":"that regardless of what our"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2120.63,"endTime":2123.75,"body":"marital status is."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2124.11,"endTime":2124.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2125.31,"endTime":2128.67,"body":"Well, John, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2125.31,"endTime":2128.67,"body":"much for being on the podcast"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2128.67,"endTime":2131.28,"body":"today and for sharing your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2128.67,"endTime":2131.28,"body":"thoughts and your life. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2131.34,"endTime":2133.53,"body":"have just always found to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2131.34,"endTime":2133.53,"body":"someone who is inspirational and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2133.53,"endTime":2135.06,"body":"I just, we just really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2133.53,"endTime":2135.06,"body":"appreciate your time."},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2135.42,"endTime":2137.85,"body":"Thank you. Wonderful"},{"speaker":"John","startTime":2135.42,"endTime":2137.85,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2138.24,"endTime":2140.28,"body":"Thank you for joining us"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2138.24,"endTime":2140.28,"body":"today. If you've enjoyed this or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2140.28,"endTime":2142.89,"body":"other episodes, please consider"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2140.28,"endTime":2142.89,"body":"leaving us an Apple podcast"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2142.89,"endTime":2145.29,"body":"review. And as always, please"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2142.89,"endTime":2145.29,"body":"remember that we do not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2145.29,"endTime":2147.72,"body":"represent the Church of Jesus"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2145.29,"endTime":2147.72,"body":"Christ of Latter-day Saints or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2147.72,"endTime":2150.66,"body":"Brigham Young University. You're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2147.72,"endTime":2150.66,"body":"not trying to be prescriptive or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2150.66,"endTime":2152.49,"body":"tell anyone what to think or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2150.66,"endTime":2152.49,"body":"what to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2152.64,"endTime":2154.2,"body":"You heard three"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2152.64,"endTime":2154.2,"body":"perspectives, and there are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2154.2,"endTime":2157.17,"body":"many, many more. We encourage"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2154.2,"endTime":2157.17,"body":"you to listen to other voices"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2157.17,"endTime":2160.26,"body":"and hear a wide variety of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2157.17,"endTime":2160.26,"body":"experiences. If you would like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2160.26,"endTime":2163.32,"body":"to submit a question or share a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2160.26,"endTime":2163.32,"body":"comment about today's episode,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2163.44,"endTime":2166.86,"body":"you can email us at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2163.44,"endTime":2166.86,"body":"questionsfromthecloset@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2167.28,"endTime":2168.15,"body":"Until next time..."}]}