{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.55,"endTime":7.92,"body":"Welcome to questions"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.55,"endTime":7.92,"body":"from the closet. I'm Charlie"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":7.92,"endTime":8.28,"body":"Bird,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.43,"endTime":11.37,"body":"and I Ben Schilaty. Each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.43,"endTime":11.37,"body":"episode we discuss a question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":11.37,"endTime":14.13,"body":"that we commonly get asked as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":11.37,"endTime":14.13,"body":"LGBTQ Latter-day Saints."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":14.88,"endTime":17.04,"body":"We're not trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":14.88,"endTime":17.04,"body":"answer this question or come to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":17.04,"endTime":19.56,"body":"a consensus but simply sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":17.04,"endTime":19.56,"body":"our perspectives"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":19.65,"endTime":21.9,"body":"Today's question is, should"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":19.65,"endTime":21.9,"body":"I go to BYU?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.59,"endTime":24.45,"body":"Ben and I are not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.59,"endTime":24.45,"body":"terribly diverse and we share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":24.45,"endTime":27.63,"body":"many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":24.45,"endTime":27.63,"body":"experiences. For example, both"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":27.63,"endTime":30.12,"body":"of us will be attending classes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":27.63,"endTime":30.12,"body":"at BYU this fall."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":30.21,"endTime":32.22,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":30.21,"endTime":32.22,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":32.22,"endTime":34.95,"body":"example, Charlie will be taking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":32.22,"endTime":34.95,"body":"classes and I'll be teaching"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":34.95,"endTime":35.7,"body":"classes."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":35.73,"endTime":37.65,"body":"Very nice. Ben, what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":35.73,"endTime":37.65,"body":"classes do you teach?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":37.68,"endTime":40.26,"body":"So I'll be teaching as an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":37.68,"endTime":40.26,"body":"adjunct professor two classes,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":40.29,"endTime":43.29,"body":"I'll be teaching a class that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":40.29,"endTime":43.29,"body":"designed called \"Understanding"},{"speaker":"Self and Others","startTime":43.29,"endTime":47.55,"body":"diversity and"},{"speaker":"Self and Others","startTime":43.29,"endTime":47.55,"body":"intersectionality.\" And I'll be"},{"speaker":"Self and Others","startTime":47.55,"endTime":49.44,"body":"teaching a Spanish class to"},{"speaker":"Self and Others","startTime":47.55,"endTime":49.44,"body":"Spanish to 221."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":49.75,"endTime":53.08,"body":"That's so cool. What"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":49.75,"endTime":53.08,"body":"will your diversity class cover?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":53.29,"endTime":55.24,"body":"We're going to talk about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":53.29,"endTime":55.24,"body":"first of all,  how do I ..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":55.24,"endTime":56.92,"body":"I know this isn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":55.24,"endTime":56.92,"body":"scripted, I just actually want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":56.92,"endTime":57.19,"body":"to know."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":57.25,"endTime":60.04,"body":"Okay, the first half of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":57.25,"endTime":60.04,"body":"class is going to deal with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":60.04,"endTime":62.86,"body":"like, how do we have effective"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":60.04,"endTime":62.86,"body":"dialogues? How do we deal with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":62.86,"endTime":64.69,"body":"disagreements? How do we talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":62.86,"endTime":64.69,"body":"about issues that can be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":64.69,"endTime":68.92,"body":"charged? And then we're going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":64.69,"endTime":68.92,"body":"get close to or proximate to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":68.92,"endTime":71.14,"body":"bunch of different marginalized"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":68.92,"endTime":71.14,"body":"groups. So we're going to learn"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":71.14,"endTime":73.69,"body":"about people of different racial"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":71.14,"endTime":73.69,"body":"backgrounds, people with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":73.69,"endTime":78.28,"body":"disabilities, we're gonna learn"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":73.69,"endTime":78.28,"body":"about sexism and gender and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":78.28,"endTime":80.65,"body":"LGBTQ issues, all that kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":78.28,"endTime":80.65,"body":"stuff. And that people have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":80.65,"endTime":83.47,"body":"different faith backgrounds and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":80.65,"endTime":83.47,"body":"different belief systems."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":83.65,"endTime":85.66,"body":"That's cool. I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":83.65,"endTime":85.66,"body":"it's very needed. That's great."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":85.66,"endTime":88.42,"body":"It's gonna be fun. So with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":85.66,"endTime":88.42,"body":"that, I apologize my students"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":89.2,"endTime":89.74,"body":"ahead of time."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":90.71,"endTime":92.78,"body":"So we would like to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":90.71,"endTime":92.78,"body":"provide a variety of voices and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":92.78,"endTime":95.45,"body":"perspectives, and today we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":92.78,"endTime":95.45,"body":"joined by Michael Griffin."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":95.93,"endTime":98.27,"body":"Hi. It's great to be"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":95.93,"endTime":98.27,"body":"with you, Ben and Charlie."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":98.72,"endTime":100.31,"body":"So tell us a little bit"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":98.72,"endTime":100.31,"body":"about yourself, Michael."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":100.43,"endTime":103.4,"body":"My name is Michael"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":100.43,"endTime":103.4,"body":"Griffin. I've been. So I work at"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":103.4,"endTime":106.19,"body":"BYU right now. I'm an assistant"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":103.4,"endTime":106.19,"body":"professor. I've been working in"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":106.19,"endTime":110.6,"body":"BYU for about three years. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":106.19,"endTime":110.6,"body":"native to Utah. I grew up here."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":111.2,"endTime":114.89,"body":"Went to BYU as an undergraduate,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":111.2,"endTime":114.89,"body":"served a mission, went off to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":114.89,"endTime":118.55,"body":"grad school, then came back to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":114.89,"endTime":118.55,"body":"BYU to start teaching."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":119.23,"endTime":121.27,"body":"Yeah, so all of us are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":119.23,"endTime":121.27,"body":"connected to BYU in some way. So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":121.27,"endTime":124.75,"body":"you work at BYU as the faculty"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":121.27,"endTime":124.75,"body":"member. I work in the Honor Code"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":124.75,"endTime":127.15,"body":"office and teach some classes."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":124.75,"endTime":127.15,"body":"And Charlie."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":128.02,"endTime":133.21,"body":"I was a student and a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":128.02,"endTime":133.21,"body":"student athlete. And I'm going"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":133.21,"endTime":133.99,"body":"back. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":137.98,"endTime":141.37,"body":"So what what led you guys"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":137.98,"endTime":141.37,"body":"to come to BYU as students?"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":142.36,"endTime":144.7,"body":"It seemed like a great"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":142.36,"endTime":144.7,"body":"place to be a great environment"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":144.7,"endTime":149.77,"body":"to come and study a great school"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":144.7,"endTime":149.77,"body":"and a lot cheaper than a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":149.77,"endTime":153.7,"body":"the other schools I was looking"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":149.77,"endTime":153.7,"body":"at. And so it seemed like a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":153.7,"endTime":156.67,"body":"natural choice when I got in."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":157.33,"endTime":159.25,"body":"I know a lot of families,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":157.33,"endTime":159.25,"body":"like have these like long"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":159.25,"endTime":162.55,"body":"histories of generations going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":159.25,"endTime":162.55,"body":"to BYU. My parents are both"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":162.55,"endTime":165.43,"body":"converts and my sister got into"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":162.55,"endTime":165.43,"body":"BYU but we didn't like have that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":165.43,"endTime":168.67,"body":"tradition of going to BYU. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":165.43,"endTime":168.67,"body":"growing up in the Seattle area,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":168.67,"endTime":171.28,"body":"I just really wanted to be with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":168.67,"endTime":171.28,"body":"a bunch of Latter-day Saints"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":171.28,"endTime":173.8,"body":"like being that that was really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":171.28,"endTime":173.8,"body":"that was my main pull to come to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":173.8,"endTime":176.29,"body":"BYU. And I thought it'd be a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":173.8,"endTime":176.29,"body":"better place to get married."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":176.65,"endTime":178.9,"body":"Yeah, I think my dad"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":176.65,"endTime":178.9,"body":"was probably disappointed. I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":178.9,"endTime":180.07,"body":"didn't go to Utah State."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":182.04,"endTime":186.63,"body":"And look at you now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":182.04,"endTime":186.63,"body":"Still at BYU? Yeah, I echo what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":186.63,"endTime":189.0,"body":"both of you said it was kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":186.63,"endTime":189.0,"body":"I'm from Missouri, and was kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":189.0,"endTime":190.77,"body":"of the way to get out,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":189.0,"endTime":190.77,"body":"especially as a member of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":190.77,"endTime":193.59,"body":"church, like, it's just natural"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":190.77,"endTime":193.59,"body":"to go to BYU if you want to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":193.59,"endTime":196.5,"body":"leave the state. And I had never"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":193.59,"endTime":196.5,"body":"really been surrounded by people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.5,"endTime":198.84,"body":"at the same faith background,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.5,"endTime":198.84,"body":"and I kind of wanted that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":198.84,"endTime":201.9,"body":"experience. I've been to like an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":198.84,"endTime":201.9,"body":"EFY on campus. And I really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":201.9,"endTime":205.44,"body":"liked it. I really liked the I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":201.9,"endTime":205.44,"body":"guess it's just a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":205.44,"endTime":208.62,"body":"campus. The buildings are nice,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":205.44,"endTime":208.62,"body":"the mountains are gorgeous. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":208.62,"endTime":212.82,"body":"it's just kind of I didn't have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":208.62,"endTime":212.82,"body":"any pressure to go there. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":212.82,"endTime":217.14,"body":"just it felt right. I should"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":212.82,"endTime":217.14,"body":"add, if I'm being completely"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":217.14,"endTime":221.91,"body":"honest, what you said about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":217.14,"endTime":221.91,"body":"wanting to date and marry, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":221.94,"endTime":225.15,"body":"did play into my decision. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":221.94,"endTime":225.15,"body":"that was like a fear based"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":225.15,"endTime":228.75,"body":"decision. Because in high"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":225.15,"endTime":228.75,"body":"school, like I knew I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":228.75,"endTime":232.8,"body":"denying my orientation. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":228.75,"endTime":232.8,"body":"wanted to be in a safe space."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":232.86,"endTime":236.79,"body":"Because I thought that if if I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":232.86,"endTime":236.79,"body":"went to another school, then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":236.79,"endTime":239.7,"body":"would end up dating a guy and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":236.79,"endTime":239.7,"body":"really didn't want to that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":239.7,"endTime":243.24,"body":"really scared me at the time. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":239.7,"endTime":243.24,"body":"a small part of my decision to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":243.24,"endTime":247.38,"body":"go to BYU was just because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":243.24,"endTime":247.38,"body":"thought it would help me put off"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":247.38,"endTime":248.85,"body":"that side of me that I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":247.38,"endTime":248.85,"body":"scared of."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":249.96,"endTime":252.48,"body":"It was a way to like, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":249.96,"endTime":252.48,"body":"keep yourself from quote"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":252.48,"endTime":253.47,"body":"unquote, being gay."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":253.48,"endTime":257.47,"body":"Yeah. Like being gay in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":253.48,"endTime":257.47,"body":"the world. Like, yeah, basically"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":257.53,"endTime":260.77,"body":"growing up, like worldly things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":257.53,"endTime":260.77,"body":"were anything gay to me, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":260.77,"endTime":263.71,"body":"that was really the only thing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":260.77,"endTime":263.71,"body":"that I had an issue with, right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":264.16,"endTime":266.62,"body":"And so I thought it would just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":264.16,"endTime":266.62,"body":"be the safest place for me."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":266.92,"endTime":269.05,"body":"Yeah. But that's"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":266.92,"endTime":269.05,"body":"interesting, that didn't really"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":269.08,"endTime":272.59,"body":"play a factor into my decision."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":269.08,"endTime":272.59,"body":"Because at the time, I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":272.59,"endTime":276.31,"body":"really open to myself. I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":272.59,"endTime":276.31,"body":"willing to acknowledge to myself"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":276.31,"endTime":279.25,"body":"that I was attracted to guys."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":276.31,"endTime":279.25,"body":"And so that's not really even"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":279.25,"endTime":280.63,"body":"something I thought about."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":281.26,"endTime":284.47,"body":"Same. So I've actually been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":281.26,"endTime":284.47,"body":"to BYU as a student three times."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":284.62,"endTime":288.22,"body":"And, and so the first time I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":284.62,"endTime":288.22,"body":"went for my bachelor's, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":288.22,"endTime":291.01,"body":"even consider myself gay at all."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":288.22,"endTime":291.01,"body":"And when I came back to BYU for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":291.01,"endTime":294.22,"body":"my Master's in Hispanic"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":291.01,"endTime":294.22,"body":"linguistics, I remember reading"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":294.28,"endTime":296.95,"body":"like in first Nephi right before"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":294.28,"endTime":296.95,"body":"going back to school, read about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":296.95,"endTime":299.68,"body":"how Nephi and his brothers like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":296.95,"endTime":299.68,"body":"went back to Jerusalem to get"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":299.68,"endTime":303.22,"body":"the plates? And they went back a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":299.68,"endTime":303.22,"body":"second time to get wives. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":303.22,"endTime":305.23,"body":"thought, well, I came to BYU the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":303.22,"endTime":305.23,"body":"first time to get knowledge. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":305.23,"endTime":307.06,"body":"the second time I'm going back"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":305.23,"endTime":307.06,"body":"to get married, like, I really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":307.06,"endTime":309.04,"body":"thought I was coming back to BYU"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":307.06,"endTime":309.04,"body":"to marry a woman."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":309.4,"endTime":311.2,"body":"It's really interesting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":309.4,"endTime":311.2,"body":"because there's so many things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":311.2,"endTime":314.92,"body":"about BYU, in my BYU experience"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":311.2,"endTime":314.92,"body":"that were absolutely incredible."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":314.95,"endTime":317.89,"body":"The education I got and the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":314.95,"endTime":317.89,"body":"friends that I made, and just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":317.92,"endTime":323.23,"body":"the fun culture around being in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":317.92,"endTime":323.23,"body":"Provo, but as an LGBTQ person,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":323.5,"endTime":327.64,"body":"there is like a certain element"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":323.5,"endTime":327.64,"body":"of discomfort there and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":327.64,"endTime":330.1,"body":"isolation. And so I think that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":327.64,"endTime":330.1,"body":"kind of what we're going to get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":330.1,"endTime":332.74,"body":"into in this episode. Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":330.1,"endTime":332.74,"body":"we're definitely going to talk"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":332.74,"endTime":336.61,"body":"about some good things. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":332.74,"endTime":336.61,"body":"think all of us are ready to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":336.61,"endTime":339.76,"body":"just like really honest about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":336.61,"endTime":339.76,"body":"the difficult things because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":339.76,"endTime":343.69,"body":"mean, furthering your education"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":339.76,"endTime":343.69,"body":"is a huge decision. And this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":343.69,"endTime":346.27,"body":"a decision that a lot of kids"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":343.69,"endTime":346.27,"body":"are trying to make. And I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":346.27,"endTime":349.21,"body":"kids are coming out younger and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":346.27,"endTime":349.21,"body":"younger these days, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":349.45,"endTime":351.82,"body":"Coming to school and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":349.45,"endTime":351.82,"body":"realizing that they are already"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":351.85,"endTime":354.82,"body":"out and, and okay with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":351.85,"endTime":354.82,"body":"orientation."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":354.96,"endTime":357.57,"body":"Yeah. So this is an"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":354.96,"endTime":357.57,"body":"interesting question to me,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":357.57,"endTime":360.66,"body":"because, so like I say, you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":357.57,"endTime":360.66,"body":"know, it wasn't, it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":360.66,"endTime":363.21,"body":"something that was really on my"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":360.66,"endTime":363.21,"body":"mind when I first came to BYU."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":363.57,"endTime":367.71,"body":"But I know that this is a really"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":363.57,"endTime":367.71,"body":"difficult decision for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":367.71,"endTime":371.04,"body":"people. So for a lot of members"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":367.71,"endTime":371.04,"body":"of the church, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":371.04,"endTime":374.88,"body":"see BYU as, you know, a natural"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":371.04,"endTime":374.88,"body":"choice, if they're able to get"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":374.88,"endTime":378.12,"body":"in, it's a natural choice place"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":374.88,"endTime":378.12,"body":"to place to come. But also, if"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":378.12,"endTime":381.36,"body":"you're LGBTQ, then maybe it"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":378.12,"endTime":381.36,"body":"seems like a really obvious"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":381.36,"endTime":385.02,"body":"choice that you shouldn't go to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":381.36,"endTime":385.02,"body":"BYU. And so there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":385.02,"endTime":387.93,"body":"things to a lot of things to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":385.02,"endTime":387.93,"body":"consider. I know there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":387.93,"endTime":391.47,"body":"of people who, who are afraid of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":387.93,"endTime":391.47,"body":"coming to BYU who are afraid"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":391.5,"endTime":394.65,"body":"that there's going to be"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":391.5,"endTime":394.65,"body":"pressures on them, or a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":394.8,"endTime":397.95,"body":"homophobia or, and my my"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":394.8,"endTime":397.95,"body":"experience working with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":397.95,"endTime":401.88,"body":"students, I think students at"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":397.95,"endTime":401.88,"body":"BYU, who are LGBTQ, I've seen"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":401.88,"endTime":404.91,"body":"students have have a wide range"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":401.88,"endTime":404.91,"body":"of experience. Some of them have"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":404.94,"endTime":409.08,"body":"very, very positive experiences."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":404.94,"endTime":409.08,"body":"Some of them have some not so"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":409.08,"endTime":413.37,"body":"positive experiences. And"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":409.08,"endTime":413.37,"body":"there's maybe some things to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":413.43,"endTime":416.46,"body":"think about there about, you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":413.43,"endTime":416.46,"body":"know, what is what is your"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":416.46,"endTime":421.02,"body":"experience going to be coming to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":416.46,"endTime":421.02,"body":"BYU based on who you are and how"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":421.02,"endTime":423.87,"body":"you're going to react to certain"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":421.02,"endTime":423.87,"body":"things. And then maybe some"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":423.87,"endTime":426.12,"body":"other things that you want to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":423.87,"endTime":426.12,"body":"think about, as far as like"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":426.12,"endTime":428.4,"body":"preparing yourself to come to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":426.12,"endTime":428.4,"body":"BYU if that's a choice that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":428.4,"endTime":432.15,"body":"you're going to make? I think it"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":428.4,"endTime":432.15,"body":"would be important for for an"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":432.15,"endTime":436.11,"body":"LGBT student coming to BYU to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":432.15,"endTime":436.11,"body":"have people to talk to. To be"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":436.11,"endTime":440.07,"body":"able to talk to current students"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":436.11,"endTime":440.07,"body":"to be able to or past students"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":440.07,"endTime":442.65,"body":"about their experiences, what"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":440.07,"endTime":442.65,"body":"was hard for them, or what"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":442.65,"endTime":446.88,"body":"worked out well for them? To be"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":442.65,"endTime":446.88,"body":"able to have people on campus to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":446.88,"endTime":449.19,"body":"be able to form a sense of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":446.88,"endTime":449.19,"body":"community in the support group"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":449.79,"endTime":450.36,"body":"to help them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":450.42,"endTime":451.26,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":451.45,"endTime":454.84,"body":"And there are more and more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":451.45,"endTime":454.84,"body":"people on campus who are who are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":454.87,"endTime":458.77,"body":"openly allies and openly LGBTQ."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":454.87,"endTime":458.77,"body":"And I think there are a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":458.77,"endTime":460.69,"body":"people you can connect with."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":458.77,"endTime":460.69,"body":"Anyone who wants to talk to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":460.69,"endTime":462.73,"body":"someone like you're always"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":460.69,"endTime":462.73,"body":"welcome to come by my office"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":462.82,"endTime":463.69,"body":"Or my office."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":463.93,"endTime":465.85,"body":"And we would just like like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":463.93,"endTime":465.85,"body":"let's chat."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":465.97,"endTime":467.86,"body":"Or like, wave me down"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":465.97,"endTime":467.86,"body":"on campus."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":467.92,"endTime":469.0,"body":"Charlie doesn't have an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":467.92,"endTime":469.0,"body":"office."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":470.89,"endTime":474.07,"body":"I'm not as established"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":470.89,"endTime":474.07,"body":"as these gentlemen. Yeah, for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":474.07,"endTime":477.22,"body":"me, it was kind of interesting,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":474.07,"endTime":477.22,"body":"because BYU was so closely tied"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":477.22,"endTime":479.29,"body":"into my own, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":477.22,"endTime":479.29,"body":"self-acceptance and coming out"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":479.29,"endTime":482.89,"body":"process because, and I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":479.29,"endTime":482.89,"body":"that's pretty like regular"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":482.89,"endTime":487.12,"body":"occurrence. I didn't really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":482.89,"endTime":487.12,"body":"start digging into my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":487.12,"endTime":489.76,"body":"orientation and trying to figure"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":487.12,"endTime":489.76,"body":"myself out until after my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":489.76,"endTime":493.33,"body":"mission. And after my mission, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":489.76,"endTime":493.33,"body":"was at BYU. So it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":493.33,"endTime":497.62,"body":"funny, because like, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":493.33,"endTime":497.62,"body":"like, all of my growth, almost"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":497.62,"endTime":499.84,"body":"all of my growth with my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":497.62,"endTime":499.84,"body":"orientation and identity"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":499.87,"endTime":504.64,"body":"happened to BYU. But also it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":499.87,"endTime":504.64,"body":"came with a lot of pain and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":504.64,"endTime":508.66,"body":"discomfort. I think just kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":504.64,"endTime":508.66,"body":"as a general rule, I guess maybe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":508.66,"endTime":513.07,"body":"I can't generalize this. But in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":508.66,"endTime":513.07,"body":"my experience, being closeted at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":513.07,"endTime":517.3,"body":"BYU with no support system is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":513.07,"endTime":517.3,"body":"terrible. And it is horrible."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":517.36,"endTime":517.78,"body":"For sure."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":517.84,"endTime":520.15,"body":"I was, like, I would say,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":517.84,"endTime":520.15,"body":"some of the darkest times in my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":520.15,"endTime":523.78,"body":"life, were when I was closeted,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":520.15,"endTime":523.78,"body":"and no one knew. And I was in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":523.78,"endTime":527.08,"body":"this culture where I had to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":523.78,"endTime":527.08,"body":"getting married and like being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":527.08,"endTime":529.42,"body":"focused on that. And that that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":527.08,"endTime":529.42,"body":"was really, that was really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":529.42,"endTime":531.4,"body":"tough for me, then once I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":529.42,"endTime":531.4,"body":"started coming out and being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":531.4,"endTime":533.62,"body":"more open, things for me got a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":531.4,"endTime":533.62,"body":"lot brighter."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":533.89,"endTime":535.48,"body":"Yeah, and that's,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":533.89,"endTime":535.48,"body":"that's an interesting thing"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":535.48,"endTime":537.82,"body":"there. Because as again, as I've"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":535.48,"endTime":537.82,"body":"talked with certain students,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":537.82,"endTime":540.73,"body":"there's a lot of them that are"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":537.82,"endTime":540.73,"body":"afraid of coming out, they're"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":540.73,"endTime":543.22,"body":"afraid that they're going to be"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":540.73,"endTime":543.22,"body":"rejected, they have this just"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":543.22,"endTime":548.68,"body":"kind of ambient fear that if"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":543.22,"endTime":548.68,"body":"they come out, their their their"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":548.68,"endTime":552.49,"body":"friends, their roommates, their"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":548.68,"endTime":552.49,"body":"professors, their classmates,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":552.64,"endTime":555.79,"body":"they're going to be rejected,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":552.64,"endTime":555.79,"body":"that they're going to be ignored"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":555.79,"endTime":561.46,"body":"or hated, or whatever else. But"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":555.79,"endTime":561.46,"body":"my experience, by and large has"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":561.46,"endTime":565.6,"body":"been that people tend to be a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":561.46,"endTime":565.6,"body":"lot more accepting than then"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":565.6,"endTime":569.47,"body":"you're afraid. I mean, and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":565.6,"endTime":569.47,"body":"that's, that's not universally"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":569.47,"endTime":573.64,"body":"true. There's reasons why people"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":569.47,"endTime":573.64,"body":"are afraid of this. But I feel"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":573.64,"endTime":577.87,"body":"like by and large, more people"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":573.64,"endTime":577.87,"body":"are going to be accepting more"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":577.87,"endTime":580.75,"body":"people are going to be there to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":577.87,"endTime":580.75,"body":"support you and help you than"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":580.75,"endTime":581.47,"body":"you expect."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":582.2,"endTime":584.84,"body":"As far as like people's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":582.2,"endTime":584.84,"body":"general attitudes on campus,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":585.02,"endTime":589.37,"body":"when I was closeted, I heard a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":585.02,"endTime":589.37,"body":"lot more like negative or harsh"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":589.4,"endTime":593.66,"body":"language around LGBTQ issues."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":589.4,"endTime":593.66,"body":"And I think that's just kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":593.66,"endTime":598.07,"body":"natural but but now that like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":593.66,"endTime":598.07,"body":"I'm out if if people say things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":598.07,"endTime":600.11,"body":"like that--they just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":598.07,"endTime":600.11,"body":"don't--because first of all,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":600.11,"endTime":602.24,"body":"they know I'm gay, I think I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":600.11,"endTime":602.24,"body":"think there needs to be a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":602.24,"endTime":605.99,"body":"more gay visibility at BYU."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":602.24,"endTime":605.99,"body":"Because historically, it's kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":605.99,"endTime":608.09,"body":"of been like an us versus them"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":605.99,"endTime":608.09,"body":"mentality. And people don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":608.09,"endTime":613.52,"body":"really understand that the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":608.09,"endTime":613.52,"body":"\"them\" is \"us.\" And so just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":613.52,"endTime":616.52,"body":"being out help start"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":613.52,"endTime":616.52,"body":"conversations, and makes people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":616.52,"endTime":619.07,"body":"double think about what they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":616.52,"endTime":619.07,"body":"saying, I guess I'll share this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":619.07,"endTime":623.3,"body":"experience, this kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":619.07,"endTime":623.3,"body":"encapsulates what the LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":623.3,"endTime":627.11,"body":"experience is at BYU for me. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":623.3,"endTime":627.11,"body":"was in, I think, an ethics class"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":627.11,"endTime":632.0,"body":"and we were having like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":627.11,"endTime":632.0,"body":"diversity training on LGBTQ in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":632.0,"endTime":635.84,"body":"the workplace. And this kid"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":632.0,"endTime":635.84,"body":"raised his hand and essentially"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":635.84,"endTime":637.85,"body":"said something along the lines"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":635.84,"endTime":637.85,"body":"of how he didn't take an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":637.85,"endTime":641.0,"body":"internship because the CEO was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":637.85,"endTime":641.0,"body":"gay. And he wasn't comfortable"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":641.0,"endTime":644.66,"body":"with that. And that he would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":641.0,"endTime":644.66,"body":"have to, like travel and go on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":644.66,"endTime":647.06,"body":"business trips with the CEO, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":644.66,"endTime":647.06,"body":"he just thought it was wildly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":647.06,"endTime":651.44,"body":"inappropriate. And, obviously,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":647.06,"endTime":651.44,"body":"like, I wasn't out yet, but in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":651.44,"endTime":655.88,"body":"my heart, I was just like, \"Oh"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":651.44,"endTime":655.88,"body":"my gosh?\" Like, that's a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":655.88,"endTime":659.81,"body":"horrible thing to say, I can't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":655.88,"endTime":659.81,"body":"believe this, like, ideology"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":659.81,"endTime":663.95,"body":"still exists in 2018. It was a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":659.81,"endTime":663.95,"body":"couple years ago, and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":663.95,"endTime":669.56,"body":"really upset and really mad."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":663.95,"endTime":669.56,"body":"And, but as he said that, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":670.13,"endTime":673.1,"body":"20 different people's hands shot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":670.13,"endTime":673.1,"body":"up. And the teacher was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":673.1,"endTime":675.2,"body":"\"No, I'm going to take this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":673.1,"endTime":675.2,"body":"one.\" And basically, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":675.2,"endTime":678.68,"body":"like, that is terrible. That is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":675.2,"endTime":678.68,"body":"not Christ-like, that is not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":678.71,"endTime":682.28,"body":"even anything to do with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":678.71,"endTime":682.28,"body":"business ethics at all."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":682.28,"endTime":686.03,"body":"Actually, that's just like, a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":682.28,"endTime":686.03,"body":"horrible misconception. And so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":686.12,"endTime":688.97,"body":"it was so interesting, like this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":686.12,"endTime":688.97,"body":"juxtaposition of people who were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":688.97,"endTime":693.83,"body":"like, overtly homophobic, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":688.97,"endTime":693.83,"body":"people who were like strong"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":693.86,"endTime":697.7,"body":"allies, and then me who was gay,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":693.86,"endTime":697.7,"body":"all in the same room. And like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":697.7,"endTime":702.38,"body":"there's a lot of that type of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":697.7,"endTime":702.38,"body":"conflict. But there is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":702.38,"endTime":705.98,"body":"visibility, like there are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":702.38,"endTime":705.98,"body":"allies, and there are 30 people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":706.01,"endTime":711.53,"body":"whose hands shoot up to stop"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":706.01,"endTime":711.53,"body":"that sort of like, ideology."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":713.25,"endTime":715.95,"body":"Yeah. So one thing you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":713.25,"endTime":715.95,"body":"said there kind of stood out to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":715.95,"endTime":720.21,"body":"me, is this idea of, of the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":715.95,"endTime":720.21,"body":"professor being there, and you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":720.21,"endTime":724.26,"body":"being gay, and, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":720.21,"endTime":724.26,"body":"kind of mixture of allies and"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":725.85,"endTime":729.6,"body":"homophobia is one thing that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":725.85,"endTime":729.6,"body":"I've I've, when I've had"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":729.6,"endTime":733.74,"body":"conversations with my colleagues"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":729.6,"endTime":733.74,"body":"about this, I've tried to put"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":733.74,"endTime":735.78,"body":"forward this idea just so that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":733.74,"endTime":735.78,"body":"it's in people's heads, because"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":735.78,"endTime":738.36,"body":"I think that they, a lot of my"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":735.78,"endTime":738.36,"body":"colleagues, a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":738.36,"endTime":741.66,"body":"professors don't actually think"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":738.36,"endTime":741.66,"body":"very much about LGBT students."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":742.08,"endTime":747.3,"body":"But the fact is, we expect that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":742.08,"endTime":747.3,"body":"there's probably about one in 30"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":747.3,"endTime":753.09,"body":"students on campuses is LGBT,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":747.3,"endTime":753.09,"body":"give or take, yeah, most classes"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":753.12,"endTime":757.14,"body":"are about that size. We can"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":753.12,"endTime":757.14,"body":"expect that there's an LGBT"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":757.14,"endTime":760.83,"body":"student in most classes that we"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":757.14,"endTime":760.83,"body":"teach. In fact,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":760.83,"endTime":763.2,"body":"In every class I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":760.83,"endTime":763.2,"body":"ever in, there was a gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":763.2,"endTime":763.62,"body":"student."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":767.73,"endTime":771.63,"body":"Sometimes those"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":767.73,"endTime":771.63,"body":"statistics get weirdly skewed."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":771.63,"endTime":775.62,"body":"So I have a I have a very small"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":771.63,"endTime":775.62,"body":"class that I teach, usually"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":775.62,"endTime":777.54,"body":"every other semester in the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":775.62,"endTime":777.54,"body":"fall."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":778.35,"endTime":778.86,"body":"What's it called?"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":778.86,"endTime":782.67,"body":"And it was so this is,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":778.86,"endTime":782.67,"body":"this is a class that's preparing"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":782.67,"endTime":784.62,"body":"students to take math"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":782.67,"endTime":784.62,"body":"competitions."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":785.43,"endTime":787.29,"body":"That sounds like a really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":785.43,"endTime":787.29,"body":"cool thing to do."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":788.1,"endTime":790.95,"body":"You know us, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":788.1,"endTime":790.95,"body":"pretty much the jocks of the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":790.95,"endTime":795.39,"body":"math department. But yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":790.95,"endTime":795.39,"body":"um, small class in that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":795.39,"endTime":800.25,"body":"particular class tends to be--I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":795.39,"endTime":800.25,"body":"discovered last year is a little"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":800.25,"endTime":804.3,"body":"bit over represented in the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":800.25,"endTime":804.3,"body":"number of students that are"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":804.3,"endTime":804.99,"body":"LGBTQ."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":805.2,"endTime":806.19,"body":"Gays do math?"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":806.79,"endTime":808.08,"body":"Yeah, we do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":808.24,"endTime":808.75,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":811.03,"endTime":814.57,"body":"Just talking about, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":811.03,"endTime":814.57,"body":"know, support at BYU, I, Charlie"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":814.57,"endTime":818.53,"body":"and I were part of a working"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":814.57,"endTime":818.53,"body":"group at BYU, his last year as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":818.53,"endTime":820.57,"body":"an undergrad and my first year"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":818.53,"endTime":820.57,"body":"of doing a master's in social"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":820.57,"endTime":824.59,"body":"work at BYU. And we met weekly"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":820.57,"endTime":824.59,"body":"with campus administrators to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":824.59,"endTime":829.06,"body":"talk about what we could do to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":824.59,"endTime":829.06,"body":"make BYU a more inclusive place."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":829.39,"endTime":831.7,"body":"And so I got to know a number of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":829.39,"endTime":831.7,"body":"administrators who just care so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":831.7,"endTime":834.82,"body":"much. I remember one of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":831.7,"endTime":834.82,"body":"administrators saying that, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":834.82,"endTime":838.0,"body":"know, out of all the things that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":834.82,"endTime":838.0,"body":"she had to do at BYU, the thing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":838.0,"endTime":841.63,"body":"that was the most meaningful to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":838.0,"endTime":841.63,"body":"her was this LGBTQ advocacy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":841.63,"endTime":843.97,"body":"stuff. Like that's the thing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":841.63,"endTime":843.97,"body":"that mattered the most to her."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":844.3,"endTime":849.58,"body":"And I was on a panel as part of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":844.3,"endTime":849.58,"body":"the BYU annual religious freedom"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":849.58,"endTime":855.88,"body":"review. I think it was two years"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":849.58,"endTime":855.88,"body":"ago, 2018 and I was on the panel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":855.88,"endTime":859.15,"body":"with with Steve Sandberg, who's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":855.88,"endTime":859.15,"body":"the General Counsel at BYU, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":859.15,"endTime":861.76,"body":"he and I are great friends. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":859.15,"endTime":861.76,"body":"because of this working group"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":861.76,"endTime":864.88,"body":"that we were on together, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":861.76,"endTime":864.88,"body":"during the Q\u0026A of the panel, the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":864.88,"endTime":869.47,"body":"panel is about how to about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":864.88,"endTime":869.47,"body":"LGBTQ students at BYU, someone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":869.47,"endTime":873.13,"body":"asked a really rude question."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":869.47,"endTime":873.13,"body":"And Steve, knowing me knew this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":873.31,"endTime":875.11,"body":"was a question that was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":873.31,"endTime":875.11,"body":"particularly triggering to me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":875.44,"endTime":878.65,"body":"And while this question was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":875.44,"endTime":878.65,"body":"being asked, Steve just kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":878.65,"endTime":880.78,"body":"reached over put his hand on my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":878.65,"endTime":880.78,"body":"knee, just kind of like to say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":880.78,"endTime":883.18,"body":"like, \"I got you, I'm here with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":880.78,"endTime":883.18,"body":"you.\" And that really meant a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":883.18,"endTime":886.87,"body":"lot to me. And then instead of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":883.18,"endTime":886.87,"body":"leaving me up to answer this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":886.87,"endTime":890.53,"body":"question, he took charge and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":886.87,"endTime":890.53,"body":"made sure that that he said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":890.53,"endTime":894.07,"body":"something. And then, and then I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":890.53,"endTime":894.07,"body":"said, \"I want to say something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":894.07,"endTime":896.29,"body":"too.\" And I answered this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":894.07,"endTime":896.29,"body":"question a little, a little bit"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":896.29,"endTime":899.44,"body":"as well. But I found there are a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":896.29,"endTime":899.44,"body":"lot of people on campus who are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":899.44,"endTime":903.43,"body":"really wanting to create safe"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":899.44,"endTime":903.43,"body":"spaces for LGBTQ students really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":903.43,"endTime":904.54,"body":"love us and care about us."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":904.57,"endTime":906.31,"body":"Yeah, to me, it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":904.57,"endTime":906.31,"body":"really comforting that I know a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":906.31,"endTime":909.79,"body":"lot of professors and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":906.31,"endTime":909.79,"body":"administrators who are very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":910.39,"endTime":913.69,"body":"accepting and welcoming and like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":910.39,"endTime":913.69,"body":"trying to build bridges, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":913.69,"endTime":917.2,"body":"Ben was just saying. And I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":913.69,"endTime":917.2,"body":"there's also like physical"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":917.2,"endTime":920.53,"body":"representations of that. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":917.2,"endTime":920.53,"body":"that a lot of professors have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":920.53,"endTime":923.65,"body":"like, little \"All are welcome\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":920.53,"endTime":923.65,"body":"rainbow pins outside their"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":923.65,"endTime":927.16,"body":"offices. And there's like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":923.65,"endTime":927.16,"body":"little things of visibility. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":927.34,"endTime":934.24,"body":"I'm seeing more and more as the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":927.34,"endTime":934.24,"body":"years go on. I will add, though,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":934.24,"endTime":937.66,"body":"I feel like just real quick, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":934.24,"endTime":937.66,"body":"should talk about BYU culture,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":937.66,"endTime":941.32,"body":"like student culture in general."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":937.66,"endTime":941.32,"body":"Because like the dating culture"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":941.32,"endTime":947.29,"body":"at BYU is very, very intense. In"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":941.32,"endTime":947.29,"body":"fact, I'd say it is like 80% of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":947.29,"endTime":951.49,"body":"BYU's culture is dating and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":947.29,"endTime":951.49,"body":"marriage. Like it's the whole"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":951.49,"endTime":954.13,"body":"\"BYU I do.\" I don't know."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":951.49,"endTime":954.13,"body":"There's so many jokes about it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":954.13,"endTime":957.52,"body":"Right? Like you go to get your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":954.13,"endTime":957.52,"body":"ring and your degree, whatever."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":957.54,"endTime":958.59,"body":"Your M-R-S?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":958.66,"endTime":962.47,"body":"Mrs. Thank you. Thank"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":958.66,"endTime":962.47,"body":"you. I was unable to get my Mrs."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":966.58,"endTime":971.02,"body":"Yeah, that's really tough. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":966.58,"endTime":971.02,"body":"think a lot of that bled into my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":971.05,"endTime":974.71,"body":"like church,. Like there would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":971.05,"endTime":974.71,"body":"be it would be like dating, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":974.71,"endTime":978.1,"body":"mandatory dating classes at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":974.71,"endTime":978.1,"body":"church. And like,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":978.16,"endTime":979.15,"body":"Like every other week?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":979.18,"endTime":981.76,"body":"Yeah, like all the time"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":979.18,"endTime":981.76,"body":"and everyone's trying to set you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":981.76,"endTime":986.38,"body":"up on dates. And like, my niece"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":981.76,"endTime":986.38,"body":"and my friends, everyone's just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":986.38,"endTime":988.6,"body":"trying to set me up with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":986.38,"endTime":988.6,"body":"everyone. And that was very,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":988.6,"endTime":992.23,"body":"very uncomfortable. So again, as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":988.6,"endTime":992.23,"body":"a positive person, living in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":992.23,"endTime":994.99,"body":"that culture and trying to like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":992.23,"endTime":994.99,"body":"like, here's the deal. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":994.99,"endTime":997.93,"body":"gymnast. But that was the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":994.99,"endTime":997.93,"body":"hardest gymnastics I've ever"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":997.93,"endTime":1003.24,"body":"done. Trying to, like get around"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":997.93,"endTime":1003.24,"body":"this BYU dating culture and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1003.24,"endTime":1008.91,"body":"like, fit in culturally and be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1003.24,"endTime":1008.91,"body":"like socially. Like, whatever,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1008.91,"endTime":1013.29,"body":"like, okay. But still being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1008.91,"endTime":1013.29,"body":"closeted. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1014.4,"endTime":1015.99,"body":"actually something we should"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1014.4,"endTime":1015.99,"body":"talk about real quick."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1016.02,"endTime":1018.18,"body":"I think that's interesting,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1016.02,"endTime":1018.18,"body":"because for me, that was never"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1018.18,"endTime":1021.24,"body":"really an issue. Because when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1018.18,"endTime":1021.24,"body":"was doing my undergrad, my first"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1021.24,"endTime":1024.51,"body":"Master's at BYU, like, I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1021.24,"endTime":1024.51,"body":"there to get married, like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1024.51,"endTime":1027.36,"body":"did want to marry a woman. So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1024.51,"endTime":1027.36,"body":"all this like dating and like, a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1027.36,"endTime":1029.73,"body":"freshman there like, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1027.36,"endTime":1029.73,"body":"want to get married. And so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1029.73,"endTime":1032.85,"body":"was into that. And then when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1029.73,"endTime":1032.85,"body":"came back for my Master's in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1032.85,"endTime":1036.99,"body":"social work, I was 33. I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1032.85,"endTime":1036.99,"body":"openly gay, I knew I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1036.99,"endTime":1040.32,"body":"gonna, I wasn't trying to get"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1036.99,"endTime":1040.32,"body":"married. And so I came with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1040.32,"endTime":1042.9,"body":"this, like confidence and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1040.32,"endTime":1042.9,"body":"assurance and knowledge of like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1042.99,"endTime":1046.68,"body":"who I was and what I was going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1042.99,"endTime":1046.68,"body":"to do. And so whenever there was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1046.68,"endTime":1048.87,"body":"like, any dating pressure wasn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1046.68,"endTime":1048.87,"body":"such a big deal, because I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1048.87,"endTime":1051.9,"body":"already knew I was already"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1048.87,"endTime":1051.9,"body":"really solidified in who I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1051.9,"endTime":1054.81,"body":"and what I want to be. So I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1051.9,"endTime":1054.81,"body":"wasn't quite an experience I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1054.81,"endTime":1056.52,"body":"had, I can see how that would be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1054.81,"endTime":1056.52,"body":"difficult."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1056.81,"endTime":1059.09,"body":"So that doesn't just go"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1056.81,"endTime":1059.09,"body":"away when you're a professor,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1059.09,"endTime":1062.42,"body":"but it changes a little bit. So"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1059.09,"endTime":1062.42,"body":"in my experience, as a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1062.42,"endTime":1066.05,"body":"professor, people don't ask you,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1062.42,"endTime":1066.05,"body":"if you're married, they ask you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1066.29,"endTime":1070.43,"body":"what your spouse does, or if you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1066.29,"endTime":1070.43,"body":"have kids. And just just an"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1070.43,"endTime":1071.72,"body":"assumption, just a fun"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1070.43,"endTime":1071.72,"body":"assumption."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1071.93,"endTime":1073.28,"body":"Yeah, that's tough."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1073.76,"endTime":1076.58,"body":"Yeah. And then we put those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1073.76,"endTime":1076.58,"body":"awkward positions like, do I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1076.61,"endTime":1078.98,"body":"come out to them? And like, put"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1076.61,"endTime":1078.98,"body":"them in an awkward situation?"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1078.98,"endTime":1081.59,"body":"And, and if not, if you"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1078.98,"endTime":1081.59,"body":"just say, \"Oh, I'm not married,\""},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1081.62,"endTime":1084.56,"body":"then you're as likely as not to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1081.62,"endTime":1084.56,"body":"get \"Oh, well, that's a good"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1084.56,"endTime":1086.33,"body":"thing you're at BYU. It's a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1084.56,"endTime":1086.33,"body":"great place to get married.\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1086.72,"endTime":1087.59,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1087.59,"endTime":1090.23,"body":"So even if you are out,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1087.59,"endTime":1090.23,"body":"you might have to continually"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1090.23,"endTime":1093.59,"body":"come out to people just because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1090.23,"endTime":1093.59,"body":"nobody assumes anyone's gay BYU."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1093.62,"endTime":1095.84,"body":"Yeah, it right. Because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1093.62,"endTime":1095.84,"body":"like, the assumption is,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1095.84,"endTime":1098.81,"body":"everyone here is straight. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1095.84,"endTime":1098.81,"body":"so you're just going to assume"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1098.81,"endTime":1099.41,"body":"that you're straight."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1099.44,"endTime":1101.27,"body":"Which is a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1099.44,"endTime":1101.27,"body":"misconception, and it needs to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1101.27,"endTime":1102.68,"body":"go. So if you're listening to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1101.27,"endTime":1102.68,"body":"this...."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1104.78,"endTime":1107.3,"body":"Which is why like, I wear a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1104.78,"endTime":1107.3,"body":"rainbow ring everyday at work."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1107.3,"endTime":1110.27,"body":"And I mean, if you know two"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1107.3,"endTime":1110.27,"body":"things about me, you know, one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1110.27,"endTime":1114.17,"body":"of the things is that I'm gay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1110.27,"endTime":1114.17,"body":"So yeah. So Charlie, why did you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1114.17,"endTime":1116.3,"body":"decide to come back to BYU this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1114.17,"endTime":1116.3,"body":"fall?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1117.5,"endTime":1120.17,"body":"Yeah, I was looking to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1117.5,"endTime":1120.17,"body":"get a master's in social work or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1120.17,"endTime":1122.54,"body":"some sort of like clinical"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1120.17,"endTime":1122.54,"body":"therapy based degree and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1122.54,"endTime":1127.37,"body":"looking at different schools. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1122.54,"endTime":1127.37,"body":"came back here over the summer,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1127.37,"endTime":1130.97,"body":"I was working on my book and my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1127.37,"endTime":1130.97,"body":"sister was in Provo. I just was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1130.97,"endTime":1137.45,"body":"like, hiking and writing and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1130.97,"endTime":1137.45,"body":"just realized that I love BYU."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1137.45,"endTime":1139.79,"body":"It's so funny, because when I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1137.45,"endTime":1139.79,"body":"graduated, I wanted to get as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1139.79,"endTime":1142.34,"body":"far away from it as I could, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1139.79,"endTime":1142.34,"body":"I moved to Manhattan and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1142.34,"endTime":1145.67,"body":"like, I need a completely"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1142.34,"endTime":1145.67,"body":"different culture. And then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1145.67,"endTime":1148.88,"body":"missed it. I really did. So last"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1145.67,"endTime":1148.88,"body":"time I was here I was having a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1148.88,"endTime":1151.4,"body":"lot of great experiences with my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1148.88,"endTime":1151.4,"body":"friends and it just like Provo"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1151.4,"endTime":1153.8,"body":"in general is just such a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1151.4,"endTime":1153.8,"body":"beautiful area and very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1153.83,"endTime":1159.47,"body":"outdoorsy, so it just like fit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1153.83,"endTime":1159.47,"body":"with my lifestyle. And I wrote"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1159.5,"endTime":1162.23,"body":"almost all of my books in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1159.5,"endTime":1162.23,"body":"JFSB, which is my favorite"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1162.23,"endTime":1164.66,"body":"building on campus. It's just so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1162.23,"endTime":1164.66,"body":"beautiful, and I've always felt"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1164.66,"endTime":1167.57,"body":"so safe and welcome there. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1164.66,"endTime":1167.57,"body":"then I was here in October, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1167.57,"endTime":1172.4,"body":"came back for like a BYU Cosmo"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1167.57,"endTime":1172.4,"body":"alumni thing because Cosmo, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1172.4,"endTime":1176.24,"body":"the legacy of Cosmo was honored"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1172.4,"endTime":1176.24,"body":"for the last homecoming. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1176.24,"endTime":1178.64,"body":"we're at this luncheon and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1176.24,"endTime":1178.64,"body":"talking to the President and the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1178.64,"endTime":1180.38,"body":"Vice President of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1178.64,"endTime":1180.38,"body":"University. We were just having"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1180.38,"endTime":1184.7,"body":"a little conversation. And after"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1180.38,"endTime":1184.7,"body":"the convo one of them said,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1185.03,"endTime":1189.08,"body":"\"Welcome home.\" And when he said"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1185.03,"endTime":1189.08,"body":"that I almost started to cry"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1189.08,"endTime":1192.83,"body":"because I was like, this is my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1189.08,"endTime":1192.83,"body":"home and it just felt so true."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1193.16,"endTime":1195.59,"body":"And I don't know if he'll ever"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1193.16,"endTime":1195.59,"body":"hear this or even if I'll ever"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1195.59,"endTime":1200.33,"body":"talk to him again. But it just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1195.59,"endTime":1200.33,"body":"felt that that that BYU was my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1200.33,"endTime":1203.57,"body":"home. And that's where I needed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1200.33,"endTime":1203.57,"body":"to be. And so I was looking at a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1203.57,"endTime":1205.91,"body":"couple other schools at the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1203.57,"endTime":1205.91,"body":"time. And then I just kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1205.91,"endTime":1208.46,"body":"stopped looking at different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1205.91,"endTime":1208.46,"body":"schools and decided that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1208.46,"endTime":1212.21,"body":"wanted to come back to BYU,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1208.46,"endTime":1212.21,"body":"because it just felt right. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1212.21,"endTime":1214.7,"body":"so I don't know if that's like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1212.21,"endTime":1214.7,"body":"really good answer other than"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1214.7,"endTime":1220.55,"body":"just, it's so much a part of who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1214.7,"endTime":1220.55,"body":"I am. And I and I really wanted"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1220.55,"endTime":1224.21,"body":"to come back. And, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1220.55,"endTime":1224.21,"body":"first time I came to BYU, I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1224.21,"endTime":1227.06,"body":"closeted. And I did a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1224.21,"endTime":1227.06,"body":"work for the working group, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1227.06,"endTime":1230.75,"body":"it was always in the closet,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1227.06,"endTime":1230.75,"body":"right? The only people who knew"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1230.87,"endTime":1233.42,"body":"were other members of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1230.87,"endTime":1233.42,"body":"working group. And so I just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1233.42,"endTime":1236.81,"body":"felt like it would be really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1233.42,"endTime":1236.81,"body":"powerful to go back as like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1236.84,"endTime":1241.55,"body":"unknown, openly gay student on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1236.84,"endTime":1241.55,"body":"campus. And I wanted that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1241.55,"endTime":1242.36,"body":"experience."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1242.45,"endTime":1245.12,"body":"I had a very similarly but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1242.45,"endTime":1245.12,"body":"yet different experience. When I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1245.12,"endTime":1247.37,"body":"was finished finishing my last"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1245.12,"endTime":1247.37,"body":"degree, my Master's in social"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1247.37,"endTime":1250.46,"body":"work. just over a year ago, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1247.37,"endTime":1250.46,"body":"was walking to a Tuesday"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1250.46,"endTime":1253.61,"body":"devotional, and I was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1250.46,"endTime":1253.61,"body":"looking around campus and I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1253.61,"endTime":1256.13,"body":"like, \"This is my home.\" Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1253.61,"endTime":1256.13,"body":"BYU has become my home and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1256.13,"endTime":1259.55,"body":"love it here. Like I love BYU so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1256.13,"endTime":1259.55,"body":"much. I just like felt like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1259.73,"endTime":1263.51,"body":"like, BYU wasn't done with me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1259.73,"endTime":1263.51,"body":"yet. Like I had more to do and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1263.51,"endTime":1266.36,"body":"more to learn at the university."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1263.51,"endTime":1266.36,"body":"And then when the Honor Code"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1266.36,"endTime":1270.11,"body":"office job opened up, a few"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1266.36,"endTime":1270.11,"body":"months later, I just felt like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1270.11,"endTime":1272.21,"body":"that's, that's what I want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1270.11,"endTime":1272.21,"body":"do. I want to stay BYU, and this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1272.21,"endTime":1272.87,"body":"is where I want to be."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1273.38,"endTime":1277.97,"body":"Yeah, this was, for me"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1273.38,"endTime":1277.97,"body":"applying to come back to BYU as"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1277.97,"endTime":1280.97,"body":"a faculty. I had similar"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1277.97,"endTime":1280.97,"body":"feelings. I mean, they were"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1280.97,"endTime":1284.42,"body":"really complicated. At that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1280.97,"endTime":1284.42,"body":"point, I was more open to myself"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1284.42,"endTime":1290.99,"body":"that I was gay. But I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1284.42,"endTime":1290.99,"body":"come back to to BYU to Utah to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1291.83,"endTime":1294.08,"body":"be here on this campus in the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1291.83,"endTime":1294.08,"body":"shadow of the mountains. It's a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1294.08,"endTime":1296.9,"body":"beautiful place, and students"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1294.08,"endTime":1296.9,"body":"are amazing. There's so many"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1296.9,"endTime":1299.48,"body":"things about BYU that I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1296.9,"endTime":1299.48,"body":"absolutely love."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1300.56,"endTime":1304.46,"body":"Yeah, so every university"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1300.56,"endTime":1304.46,"body":"has a code of conduct. And that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1304.49,"endTime":1306.95,"body":"describes, you know, what is and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1304.49,"endTime":1306.95,"body":"isn't appropriate behavior at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1306.95,"endTime":1310.34,"body":"the university, it often"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1306.95,"endTime":1310.34,"body":"includes honesty, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1310.34,"endTime":1312.8,"body":"dress and grooming standards."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1310.34,"endTime":1312.8,"body":"Our Student Conduct code of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1312.8,"endTime":1315.89,"body":"Student Conduct is called the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1312.8,"endTime":1315.89,"body":"Honor Code at BYU. Other"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1315.89,"endTime":1320.18,"body":"universities even use that same"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1315.89,"endTime":1320.18,"body":"the same verbiage. And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1320.21,"endTime":1324.86,"body":"sometimes, gay students, or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1320.21,"endTime":1324.86,"body":"LGBTQ students have felt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1324.92,"endTime":1328.28,"body":"attacked by the honor code. So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1324.92,"endTime":1328.28,"body":"there used to be a policy called"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1328.28,"endTime":1332.15,"body":"\"homosexual behavior.\" That said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1328.28,"endTime":1332.15,"body":"it was okay to identify as LGBT,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1332.21,"endTime":1335.93,"body":"as gay, like that wasn't an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1332.21,"endTime":1335.93,"body":"Honor Code violation. But acting"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1335.93,"endTime":1338.87,"body":"on those feelings was a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1335.93,"endTime":1338.87,"body":"violation of the Honor Code. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1338.87,"endTime":1342.74,"body":"so some students felt like they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1338.87,"endTime":1342.74,"body":"were going to be quickly"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1342.74,"endTime":1346.67,"body":"expelled, if they did anything"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1342.74,"endTime":1346.67,"body":"that could be even considered"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1346.67,"endTime":1351.65,"body":"gay. And back in 2019, Kevin"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1346.67,"endTime":1351.65,"body":"Utt, who is the current Honor"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1351.65,"endTime":1355.04,"body":"Code director, he was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1351.65,"endTime":1355.04,"body":"interviewed for an article in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1355.07,"endTime":1359.48,"body":"BYU magazine. And I just wanted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1355.07,"endTime":1359.48,"body":"to read two parts of that. He"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1359.48,"endTime":1363.11,"body":"said, \"Between 10 and 15"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1359.48,"endTime":1363.11,"body":"students are expelled each year."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1363.26,"endTime":1365.81,"body":"But nearly all others"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1363.26,"endTime":1365.81,"body":"successfully complete the Honor"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1365.81,"endTime":1369.68,"body":"Code process and return to good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1365.81,"endTime":1369.68,"body":"standing with BYU.\" And when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1369.68,"endTime":1372.62,"body":"was a student, there was this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1369.68,"endTime":1372.62,"body":"there was this perception that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1372.71,"endTime":1375.2,"body":"if you grow a beard, you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1372.71,"endTime":1375.2,"body":"going to get expelled. If you do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1375.2,"endTime":1377.06,"body":"this, you're going to get"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1375.2,"endTime":1377.06,"body":"expelled, like like any article"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1377.06,"endTime":1379.85,"body":"violation means expulsion. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1377.06,"endTime":1379.85,"body":"really, According to the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1379.85,"endTime":1382.43,"body":"article, it's just between 10 to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1379.85,"endTime":1382.43,"body":"15 students are expelled each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1382.43,"endTime":1386.09,"body":"year. So it's, it's a really low"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1382.43,"endTime":1386.09,"body":"number of students. And then in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1386.09,"endTime":1388.94,"body":"the same article, Kevin says"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1386.09,"endTime":1388.94,"body":"well it says, \"Like other"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1388.94,"endTime":1391.97,"body":"universities, BYU follows the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1388.94,"endTime":1391.97,"body":"due process, allowing the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1391.97,"endTime":1394.67,"body":"student to know the reported"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1391.97,"endTime":1394.67,"body":"violation and who made the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1394.67,"endTime":1397.94,"body":"accusation to respond and to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1394.67,"endTime":1397.94,"body":"provide evidence, and the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1397.94,"endTime":1399.95,"body":"student is presumed innocent"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1397.94,"endTime":1399.95,"body":"until the preponderance of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1399.95,"endTime":1403.82,"body":"evidence standard has been met.\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1399.95,"endTime":1403.82,"body":"And so I know, a lot of students"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1403.82,"endTime":1406.01,"body":"who are just like, so worried"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1403.82,"endTime":1406.01,"body":"that if they did anything that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1406.01,"endTime":1410.03,"body":"even looks gay, they could be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1406.01,"endTime":1410.03,"body":"falsely accused, and turned into"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1410.03,"endTime":1414.74,"body":"the Honor Code office and then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1410.03,"endTime":1414.74,"body":"expelled. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1414.74,"endTime":1416.51,"body":"according to this article, but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1414.74,"endTime":1416.51,"body":"that's, that's not what's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1416.51,"endTime":1418.97,"body":"happening. Like, there has to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1416.51,"endTime":1418.97,"body":"actual evidence that there's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1419.39,"endTime":1420.47,"body":"some kind of violation."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1421.04,"endTime":1422.69,"body":"Yeah, I think for me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1421.04,"endTime":1422.69,"body":"the worst part about the Honor"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1422.69,"endTime":1425.93,"body":"Code, or the most difficult part"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1422.69,"endTime":1425.93,"body":"about the Honor Code was like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1425.93,"endTime":1427.4,"body":"the cultural...."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1427.75,"endTime":1431.83,"body":"it was sort of used as,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1427.75,"endTime":1431.83,"body":"as an object of fear, more than"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1432.31,"endTime":1436.6,"body":"more than something to to keep"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1432.31,"endTime":1436.6,"body":"people with a sense of purpose"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1436.6,"endTime":1441.85,"body":"and honor. And, and all those"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1436.6,"endTime":1441.85,"body":"good things. It wasn't. It often"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1441.85,"endTime":1444.13,"body":"was, was this negative thing,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1441.85,"endTime":1444.13,"body":"not a positive thing."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1444.0,"endTime":1446.13,"body":"Yeah, among the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1444.0,"endTime":1446.13,"body":"students, there's like a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1446.13,"endTime":1449.16,"body":"cultural paranoia that surrounds"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1446.13,"endTime":1449.16,"body":"it. And I kind of fed into that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1449.16,"endTime":1452.97,"body":"I would read the homosexuality"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1449.16,"endTime":1452.97,"body":"clause. And I would feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1453.03,"endTime":1456.72,"body":"othered and scared, right? And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1453.03,"endTime":1456.72,"body":"kind of like, would feed into"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1456.72,"endTime":1459.51,"body":"that. And I think generally,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1456.72,"endTime":1459.51,"body":"among the students, there's like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1459.51,"endTime":1461.94,"body":"a ton of jokes about like, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1459.51,"endTime":1461.94,"body":"that's against the honor code,\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1461.94,"endTime":1466.05,"body":"and like, kind of like a police"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1461.94,"endTime":1466.05,"body":"mentality. And that is like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1466.05,"endTime":1469.56,"body":"they are just jokes, but they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1466.05,"endTime":1469.56,"body":"get to you, especially when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1469.56,"endTime":1474.48,"body":"you're gay. And that was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1469.56,"endTime":1474.48,"body":"hard in my undergraduate, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1474.48,"endTime":1477.09,"body":"knowing there was this clause"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1474.48,"endTime":1477.09,"body":"and worried like, well, if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1477.09,"endTime":1479.7,"body":"anyone finds out I'm gay, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1477.09,"endTime":1479.7,"body":"I'm at lunch with my brother,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1479.82,"endTime":1482.67,"body":"are they going to think that I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1479.82,"endTime":1482.67,"body":"on a date? And then I'm like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1482.67,"endTime":1486.27,"body":"didn't want any type of like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1482.67,"endTime":1486.27,"body":"accusations or... And the thing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1486.27,"endTime":1488.43,"body":"is like none of that ever"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1486.27,"endTime":1488.43,"body":"happened. I think a lot of that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1488.43,"endTime":1491.49,"body":"was just purely paranoia and a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1488.43,"endTime":1491.49,"body":"fear that like, wasn't actually"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1491.49,"endTime":1494.1,"body":"true. I mean, Ben just said,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1491.49,"endTime":1494.1,"body":"like, a very low number of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1494.1,"endTime":1497.01,"body":"people get kicked out and it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1494.1,"endTime":1497.01,"body":"not like all 10 to 15 of those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1497.01,"endTime":1500.55,"body":"people were gay, or it was like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1497.01,"endTime":1500.55,"body":"some sort of homosexual related"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1500.55,"endTime":1504.6,"body":"infraction. It's probably like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1500.55,"endTime":1504.6,"body":"I assume, like a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1504.6,"endTime":1508.83,"body":"cheating, right? I don't know."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1504.6,"endTime":1508.83,"body":"You know, just like academic"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1508.83,"endTime":1514.14,"body":"dishonesty and stuff. But but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1508.83,"endTime":1514.14,"body":"like that culture at BYU, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1514.14,"endTime":1516.36,"body":"little subculture is really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1514.14,"endTime":1516.36,"body":"difficult."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1516.9,"endTime":1519.15,"body":"And I know a lot like I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1516.9,"endTime":1519.15,"body":"talked to a lot of students who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1519.15,"endTime":1521.43,"body":"felt you know, that like scared"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1519.15,"endTime":1521.43,"body":"that you know, what if I get"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1521.43,"endTime":1524.01,"body":"falsely accused, like what this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1521.43,"endTime":1524.01,"body":"happens? For some reason, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1524.01,"endTime":1527.1,"body":"I was never worried about it as,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1524.01,"endTime":1527.1,"body":"during all my time, this year, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1527.1,"endTime":1530.28,"body":"spent eight years as a student"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1527.1,"endTime":1530.28,"body":"at BYU. And, you know, I knew I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1530.28,"endTime":1533.16,"body":"wasn't violating the honor code."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1530.28,"endTime":1533.16,"body":"So I just was never worried"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1533.16,"endTime":1535.98,"body":"about it. Like, I didn't think I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1533.16,"endTime":1535.98,"body":"had to worry. But I know a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1535.98,"endTime":1538.26,"body":"of students who do have those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1535.98,"endTime":1538.26,"body":"same feelings that you had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1538.26,"endTime":1538.68,"body":"Charlie,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1538.92,"endTime":1540.93,"body":"I think, in a way, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1538.92,"endTime":1540.93,"body":"kind of pushes students into"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1540.93,"endTime":1543.48,"body":"like, a darker place and like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1540.93,"endTime":1543.48,"body":"shoves them more into closet,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1543.51,"endTime":1549.27,"body":"that type of environment. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1543.51,"endTime":1549.27,"body":"had dinner with a friend the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1549.27,"endTime":1552.12,"body":"other day, and she she said,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1549.27,"endTime":1552.12,"body":"This phrase that really stuck"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1552.12,"endTime":1554.85,"body":"out to me, and she said,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1552.12,"endTime":1554.85,"body":"\"secrets make you sick.\" And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1554.85,"endTime":1557.82,"body":"think if you're holding on to a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1554.85,"endTime":1557.82,"body":"lot of secrets, you're gonna get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1557.82,"endTime":1563.01,"body":"sick. And if I don't know, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1557.82,"endTime":1563.01,"body":"that part of BYU's culture, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1563.01,"endTime":1568.83,"body":"Honor Code is, for me was the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1563.01,"endTime":1568.83,"body":"most difficult in regards to my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1568.83,"endTime":1569.55,"body":"orientation."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1569.75,"endTime":1572.78,"body":"I yeah, I totally agree"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1569.75,"endTime":1572.78,"body":"with that. Like, if there's a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1572.78,"endTime":1575.63,"body":"there's this culture of feeling"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1572.78,"endTime":1575.63,"body":"like if you come out, if you are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1575.66,"endTime":1578.3,"body":"openly gay, then you are going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1575.66,"endTime":1578.3,"body":"to be spied on, you're going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1578.3,"endTime":1581.48,"body":"be watched, people are going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1578.3,"endTime":1581.48,"body":"turn you in. I don't really see"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1581.48,"endTime":1584.15,"body":"much evidence of that happening."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1581.48,"endTime":1584.15,"body":"And that was never my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1584.15,"endTime":1588.2,"body":"experience. I was super open my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1584.15,"endTime":1588.2,"body":"last two years at BYU, and no"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1588.2,"endTime":1590.93,"body":"reports are made about me. When"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1588.2,"endTime":1590.93,"body":"I went out with gay friends all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1590.93,"endTime":1592.25,"body":"the time, even you Charlie...."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1594.13,"endTime":1595.81,"body":"It's interesting, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1594.13,"endTime":1595.81,"body":"like the president of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1595.81,"endTime":1598.66,"body":"university said, \"Welcome home,\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1595.81,"endTime":1598.66,"body":"you know, and like he knew I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1598.66,"endTime":1604.18,"body":"gay, like everyone does. Right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1598.66,"endTime":1604.18,"body":"I came out very publicly, in in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1604.18,"endTime":1610.03,"body":"like, a very BYU related way."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1604.18,"endTime":1610.03,"body":"And so yeah, I just, I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1610.03,"endTime":1612.79,"body":"that's a misconception that we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1610.03,"endTime":1612.79,"body":"can cleared up. And I think I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1612.79,"endTime":1616.78,"body":"hope by like people like us and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1612.79,"endTime":1616.78,"body":"others being openly LGBTQ on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1616.78,"endTime":1620.05,"body":"campus, that can kind of start"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1616.78,"endTime":1620.05,"body":"to dissolve in the future,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1620.11,"endTime":1623.05,"body":"Right. And because we like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1620.11,"endTime":1623.05,"body":"I don't want any student to feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1623.05,"endTime":1625.18,"body":"like because they're at BYU,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1623.05,"endTime":1625.18,"body":"they can't be open about their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1625.18,"endTime":1626.44,"body":"orientation and talk about it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1626.479,"endTime":1627.709,"body":"Yeah, that's not true"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1626.479,"endTime":1627.709,"body":"at all."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1628.56,"endTime":1631.8,"body":"As we're talking about,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1628.56,"endTime":1631.8,"body":"about how things are right now"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1631.8,"endTime":1634.86,"body":"on campus, I think it's worth"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1631.8,"endTime":1634.86,"body":"also, maybe at least"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1634.86,"endTime":1638.31,"body":"understanding that there are"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1634.86,"endTime":1638.31,"body":"some reasons that these"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1638.58,"endTime":1643.74,"body":"conceptions of have come into"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1638.58,"endTime":1643.74,"body":"place. BYU is, I mean, there"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1643.74,"endTime":1647.1,"body":"there is a history of of BYU,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1643.74,"endTime":1647.1,"body":"not always being as friendly as"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1647.1,"endTime":1651.15,"body":"it is apparently, to LGBT"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1647.1,"endTime":1651.15,"body":"students or to students who are"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1652.98,"endTime":1653.73,"body":"allies."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1653.76,"endTime":1656.16,"body":"Yeah. Like, like the this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1653.76,"endTime":1656.16,"body":"culture of paranoia isn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1656.16,"endTime":1657.6,"body":"something that students just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1656.16,"endTime":1657.6,"body":"invented?"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1657.63,"endTime":1658.02,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1658.23,"endTime":1660.48,"body":"It's passed down from like,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1660.75,"endTime":1661.5,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1661.92,"endTime":1664.89,"body":"From from some some history"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1661.92,"endTime":1664.89,"body":"that wasn't always very kind to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1665.28,"endTime":1667.11,"body":"the LGBTQ people on campus."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1667.26,"endTime":1671.31,"body":"Yeah. So yeah. So this,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1667.26,"endTime":1671.31,"body":"this does come from from from"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1671.31,"endTime":1674.31,"body":"kind of a long history. And BYU"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1671.31,"endTime":1674.31,"body":"has a has a complicated history"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1674.31,"endTime":1678.81,"body":"with its relationship with, with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1674.31,"endTime":1678.81,"body":"LGBT students. I mean, extending"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1678.81,"endTime":1682.2,"body":"all the way back to President"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1678.81,"endTime":1682.2,"body":"Wilkinson in the 60s, asking"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1682.2,"endTime":1687.21,"body":"LGBTQ students to leave campus,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1682.2,"endTime":1687.21,"body":"some really unfortunate things"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1687.21,"endTime":1692.52,"body":"happening in the 70s, at BYU."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1687.21,"endTime":1692.52,"body":"And that's something that I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1692.52,"endTime":1695.97,"body":"think, could even be difficult"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1692.52,"endTime":1695.97,"body":"for, for for current students"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1695.97,"endTime":1699.96,"body":"coming to understand what went"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1695.97,"endTime":1699.96,"body":"on at BYU. And understanding"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1699.96,"endTime":1702.33,"body":"that that's in connection with"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1699.96,"endTime":1702.33,"body":"even some current church"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1702.33,"endTime":1705.09,"body":"leaders. I know that that could"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1702.33,"endTime":1705.09,"body":"be extremely painful. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1705.09,"endTime":1708.93,"body":"don't want to really jump into"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1705.09,"endTime":1708.93,"body":"that right now. I think that's"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1708.93,"endTime":1712.41,"body":"something that maybe students"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1708.93,"endTime":1712.41,"body":"could learn about on their own,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1712.41,"endTime":1718.71,"body":"but I think it's worth"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1712.41,"endTime":1718.71,"body":"understanding. And and, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1718.71,"endTime":1719.7,"body":"think maybe it's worth it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1719.87,"endTime":1721.91,"body":"No, I think you made a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1719.87,"endTime":1721.91,"body":"really good point. And, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1721.91,"endTime":1724.88,"body":"know, there's been a lot that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1721.91,"endTime":1724.88,"body":"been said in our community,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1724.97,"endTime":1729.29,"body":"especially BYU that has caused"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1724.97,"endTime":1729.29,"body":"me and other members of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1729.29,"endTime":1733.43,"body":"LGBTQ community like some pretty"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1729.29,"endTime":1733.43,"body":"deep emotional damage, right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1733.79,"endTime":1739.61,"body":"And, and like, I'll never like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1733.79,"endTime":1739.61,"body":"excuse or condone that type of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1739.64,"endTime":1743.06,"body":"behavior, but but at the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1739.64,"endTime":1743.06,"body":"time, like, I think, at least"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1743.06,"endTime":1747.29,"body":"for me, personally, as I would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1743.06,"endTime":1747.29,"body":"read more about that and read"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1747.29,"endTime":1751.73,"body":"more into that, I kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1747.29,"endTime":1751.73,"body":"started projecting rejection. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1751.73,"endTime":1754.16,"body":"was talking to you about this,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1751.73,"endTime":1754.16,"body":"Ben, the other day. Like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1754.16,"endTime":1758.84,"body":"more I would focus on how things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1754.16,"endTime":1758.84,"body":"used to be, it might dig into to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1758.84,"endTime":1761.45,"body":"that hurt, it would make me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1758.84,"endTime":1761.45,"body":"think that that's how the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1761.45,"endTime":1765.23,"body":"current environment was. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1761.45,"endTime":1765.23,"body":"then it made me feel unsafe on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1765.23,"endTime":1770.03,"body":"campus, like I would project"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1765.23,"endTime":1770.03,"body":"rejection. And I mean, it's,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1770.18,"endTime":1773.81,"body":"it's kind of tricky, but like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1770.18,"endTime":1773.81,"body":"like moving forward, I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1773.81,"endTime":1776.39,"body":"decided that just for my own"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1773.81,"endTime":1776.39,"body":"emotional well being, I can't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1776.39,"endTime":1778.91,"body":"get hung up on that kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1776.39,"endTime":1778.91,"body":"stuff. And that a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1778.91,"endTime":1783.02,"body":"people's opinions in the past"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1778.91,"endTime":1783.02,"body":"were kind of formed in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1783.11,"endTime":1785.48,"body":"ignorance. And I have to realize"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1783.11,"endTime":1785.48,"body":"that like people who don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1785.48,"endTime":1789.17,"body":"really know, I don't think there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1785.48,"endTime":1789.17,"body":"was like, evil, malicious"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1789.17,"endTime":1791.84,"body":"intentions. I think a lot of it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1789.17,"endTime":1791.84,"body":"was just a lack of education or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1791.84,"endTime":1795.95,"body":"exposure. And I think it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1791.84,"endTime":1795.95,"body":"really healthy and wise to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1795.95,"endTime":1799.07,"body":"acknowledge the past so we can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1795.95,"endTime":1799.07,"body":"understand the future where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1799.07,"endTime":1800.75,"body":"we're at and how we can make it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1799.07,"endTime":1800.75,"body":"better."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1801.2,"endTime":1802.58,"body":"But I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":1801.2,"endTime":1802.58,"body":"really wise"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1802.61,"endTime":1805.31,"body":"Yeah. Like we have to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1802.61,"endTime":1805.31,"body":"build the future. Like we can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1805.31,"endTime":1808.28,"body":"look at the past to understand"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1805.31,"endTime":1808.28,"body":"it. But it has to be with the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1808.28,"endTime":1811.31,"body":"idea to make things better in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1808.28,"endTime":1811.31,"body":"the future, not to get hung up"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1811.31,"endTime":1814.16,"body":"about how it used to be in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1811.31,"endTime":1814.16,"body":"past. Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1814.19,"endTime":1816.74,"body":"Yeah, I think that's good."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1814.19,"endTime":1816.74,"body":"You know, I think it's okay. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1816.74,"endTime":1818.99,"body":"think it's even healthy to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1816.74,"endTime":1818.99,"body":"acknowledge hurtful things that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1818.99,"endTime":1822.95,"body":"happened in the past. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1818.99,"endTime":1822.95,"body":"there's this great BYU"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1822.95,"endTime":1826.85,"body":"devotional by Elder Holland,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1822.95,"endTime":1826.85,"body":"where he talks about, it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1826.85,"endTime":1829.73,"body":"called \"Remember Lot's wife.\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1826.85,"endTime":1829.73,"body":"Where he talked about the danger"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1829.73,"endTime":1833.36,"body":"of living in the past. You know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1829.73,"endTime":1833.36,"body":"we learn from the past, we look"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1833.36,"endTime":1835.46,"body":"at the past, but really, we need"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1833.36,"endTime":1835.46,"body":"to be focused on the future."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.58,"endTime":1838.13,"body":"Yeah. So I guess I'll"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.58,"endTime":1838.13,"body":"just take this as a way to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1838.16,"endTime":1840.2,"body":"acknowledge something that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1838.16,"endTime":1840.2,"body":"happened in the past actually,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1840.2,"endTime":1843.95,"body":"like the most recent past, which"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1840.2,"endTime":1843.95,"body":"was the removal of this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1844.01,"endTime":1848.09,"body":"homosexual behavior clause in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1844.01,"endTime":1848.09,"body":"the Honor Code. And I, if it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1848.09,"endTime":1850.55,"body":"okay, I can I just want to talk"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1848.09,"endTime":1850.55,"body":"about how that affected me and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1850.55,"endTime":1851.63,"body":"my decision to go back."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1851.66,"endTime":1852.29,"body":"Yeah, of course."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1852.56,"endTime":1854.39,"body":"Ben, could you kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1852.56,"endTime":1854.39,"body":"just explain what happened"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1854.39,"endTime":1855.62,"body":"first, for some context?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1855.63,"endTime":1858.12,"body":"Yeah. So at the on the same"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1855.63,"endTime":1858.12,"body":"day that the church released a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1858.12,"endTime":1861.66,"body":"new handbook that BYU also"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1858.12,"endTime":1861.66,"body":"released a new Honor Code that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1861.66,"endTime":1866.4,"body":"had been approved by the Board"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1861.66,"endTime":1866.4,"body":"of Trustees. And that that new"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1866.4,"endTime":1870.0,"body":"Honor Code took out the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1866.4,"endTime":1870.0,"body":"homosexual behavior clause, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1870.0,"endTime":1875.64,"body":"those two paragraphs. And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1870.0,"endTime":1875.64,"body":"that led to some confusion about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1875.64,"endTime":1878.94,"body":"what it meant when that when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1875.64,"endTime":1878.94,"body":"that was no longer a policy. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1878.94,"endTime":1882.0,"body":"then two weeks later, the church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1878.94,"endTime":1882.0,"body":"Commissioner of Education, Elder"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1882.0,"endTime":1885.12,"body":"Paul V. Johnson, sent out a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1882.0,"endTime":1885.12,"body":"letter to the whole church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1885.12,"endTime":1888.6,"body":"educational system, so all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1885.12,"endTime":1888.6,"body":"church educational students, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1888.84,"endTime":1892.47,"body":"faculty and staff. And in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1888.84,"endTime":1892.47,"body":"letter, he said that homosexuals"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1892.47,"endTime":1896.04,"body":"same... what was it? Same sex"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1892.47,"endTime":1896.04,"body":"romantic behavior is a violation"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1896.07,"endTime":1899.67,"body":"of the Honor Code. And so there"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1896.07,"endTime":1899.67,"body":"there were these two weeks where"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1899.7,"endTime":1901.95,"body":"since the homosexual behavior"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1899.7,"endTime":1901.95,"body":"clause was taken out, people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1901.95,"endTime":1905.55,"body":"weren't quite sure what that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1901.95,"endTime":1905.55,"body":"meant. And then Elder Johnson"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1905.55,"endTime":1909.33,"body":"specified that it meant same sex"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1905.55,"endTime":1909.33,"body":"romantic behavior is not in line"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1909.33,"endTime":1909.93,"body":"with the Honor Code."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1910.62,"endTime":1913.08,"body":"Yeah, so I was I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1910.62,"endTime":1913.08,"body":"watching this unfold. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.08,"endTime":1916.17,"body":"initially, when this cause was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.08,"endTime":1916.17,"body":"removed, I was very, very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1916.17,"endTime":1918.24,"body":"grateful. Because I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1916.17,"endTime":1918.24,"body":"Well, first of all, it's going"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1918.24,"endTime":1921.57,"body":"to remove a lot of this paranoia"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1918.24,"endTime":1921.57,"body":"on campus, and just help people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1921.57,"endTime":1925.68,"body":"feel safer. But also, I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1921.57,"endTime":1925.68,"body":"like, thinking about how cool it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1925.68,"endTime":1928.5,"body":"was that like, good cuz"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1925.68,"endTime":1928.5,"body":"obviously, I mean, I interpreted"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1928.5,"endTime":1930.99,"body":"it that way that like gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1928.5,"endTime":1930.99,"body":"students could date just like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1930.99,"endTime":1935.46,"body":"straight student. And, to me, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1930.99,"endTime":1935.46,"body":"was just like, Oh, that's great."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1935.46,"endTime":1938.91,"body":"You know, that'll be like, just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1935.46,"endTime":1938.91,"body":"a safer environment. So people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1938.91,"endTime":1941.1,"body":"don't have to do things in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1938.91,"endTime":1941.1,"body":"secret. Like I said, secret made"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1941.13,"endTime":1945.96,"body":"secrets make you sick. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1941.13,"endTime":1945.96,"body":"just really happy for LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1945.96,"endTime":1949.68,"body":"students on campus, that they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1945.96,"endTime":1949.68,"body":"would have, like, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1949.68,"endTime":1953.37,"body":"be able to feel like they have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1949.68,"endTime":1953.37,"body":"more options. And then, so I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1953.37,"endTime":1955.95,"body":"feeling great and feeling really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1953.37,"endTime":1955.95,"body":"good about my decision to go"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1955.95,"endTime":1956.7,"body":"back to BYU."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1956.7,"endTime":1958.44,"body":"And then you wrote an op ed"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1956.7,"endTime":1958.44,"body":"in the Deseret News."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1957.92,"endTime":1961.34,"body":"I wrote an op ed in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1957.92,"endTime":1961.34,"body":"Deseret News. Yeah. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1961.73,"endTime":1965.18,"body":"just--look it up. It's very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1961.73,"endTime":1965.18,"body":"good. I was just, I was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1965.18,"endTime":1968.18,"body":"grateful. And I thought it would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1965.18,"endTime":1968.18,"body":"remove a lot of the stigma and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1968.18,"endTime":1972.41,"body":"issues on campus. And then two"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1968.18,"endTime":1972.41,"body":"weeks later, it was reversed."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1972.86,"endTime":1979.22,"body":"And I was so upset, I almost"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1972.86,"endTime":1979.22,"body":"never have been more affected by"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1979.22,"endTime":1983.3,"body":"something like church, gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1979.22,"endTime":1983.3,"body":"school related, it was really,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1983.3,"endTime":1988.64,"body":"really difficult for me, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1983.3,"endTime":1988.64,"body":"almost pulled my, like, I almost"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1988.64,"endTime":1991.58,"body":"pulled my eligibility as a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1988.64,"endTime":1991.58,"body":"student, I was just gonna say,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1991.58,"endTime":1994.94,"body":"No, I'm not going there. And I,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1991.58,"endTime":1994.94,"body":"and it was so weird, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1994.94,"endTime":1998.9,"body":"like, because I mean, I'm pretty"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1994.94,"endTime":1998.9,"body":"vocal and open and have written"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1998.9,"endTime":2001.51,"body":"that article, some news stations"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1998.9,"endTime":2001.51,"body":"were calling me to try to get my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2001.51,"endTime":2003.85,"body":"opinion, I just turned off my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2001.51,"endTime":2003.85,"body":"phone for two days, because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2003.85,"endTime":2007.93,"body":"was so mad. And I didn't want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2003.85,"endTime":2007.93,"body":"to, like, say something off the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2007.93,"endTime":2011.77,"body":"cuff. You know, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2007.93,"endTime":2011.77,"body":"interesting, because as I sat in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2011.77,"endTime":2015.19,"body":"that and watched what w"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2011.77,"endTime":2015.19,"body":"s happening, I was still upset a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2015.19,"endTime":2019.09,"body":"d angry and exhausted and fe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2015.19,"endTime":2019.09,"body":"t overlooked and questioning w"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2019.09,"endTime":2023.65,"body":"y it took so long for the chur"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2019.09,"endTime":2023.65,"body":"h to make this verification. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2023.65,"endTime":2027.43,"body":"I also saw something differe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2023.65,"endTime":2027.43,"body":"t that I've never seen before."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2027.43,"endTime":2031.72,"body":"I saw people talking about it a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2027.43,"endTime":2031.72,"body":"d reaching out. So I turned on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2031.72,"endTime":2036.22,"body":"y phone, and I had probably"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2031.72,"endTime":2036.22,"body":"0 texts from different peop"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2036.25,"endTime":2039.85,"body":"e asking me how I was doing li"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2036.25,"endTime":2039.85,"body":"e, like, \"How are you feeling?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2039.85,"endTime":2043.27,"body":"Are you doing okay?\" expre"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2039.85,"endTime":2043.27,"body":"sing support. And then I we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2043.27,"endTime":2046.63,"body":"t on Facebook and Instagram and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2043.27,"endTime":2046.63,"body":"saw that people were kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2046.63,"endTime":2049.33,"body":"like coming together. There wa"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2046.63,"endTime":2049.33,"body":"like this ally community th"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2049.33,"endTime":2053.38,"body":"t was rallying around LGBTQ st"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2049.33,"endTime":2053.38,"body":"dents and saying, \"You're safe h"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2053.38,"endTime":2057.94,"body":"re. We want you here.\" And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2053.38,"endTime":2057.94,"body":"d never seen that before. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2058.09,"endTime":2060.37,"body":"I think well, that was someth"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2058.09,"endTime":2060.37,"body":"ng that was like really traum"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2060.37,"endTime":2063.01,"body":"tic and challenging for m"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2060.37,"endTime":2063.01,"body":"to get through. And also kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2063.04,"endTime":2066.91,"body":"f like, exposed this beaut"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2063.04,"endTime":2066.91,"body":"ful ally community at BYU and w"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2066.91,"endTime":2070.99,"body":"thin the church. That made"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2066.91,"endTime":2070.99,"body":"e really hopeful. And those pe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2070.99,"endTime":2076.0,"body":"ple--like that visibility--hel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2070.99,"endTime":2076.0,"body":"ed me feel like I could go back"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2076.0,"endTime":2078.61,"body":"to BYU and it would be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2076.0,"endTime":2078.61,"body":"a positive experience and I can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2078.61,"endTime":2081.43,"body":"ust add to that unity that w"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2083.4,"endTime":2086.73,"body":"Yeah, after after this"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2083.4,"endTime":2086.73,"body":"happened. I had a student"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2086.79,"endTime":2090.93,"body":"approach me from from my"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2086.79,"endTime":2090.93,"body":"calculus class. I assumed he was"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2090.93,"endTime":2093.96,"body":"straight but he came in, he"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2090.93,"endTime":2093.96,"body":"asked me about the situation."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2094.05,"endTime":2096.93,"body":"just wanting to understand a"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2094.05,"endTime":2096.93,"body":"little bit better how this had"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2096.93,"endTime":2101.43,"body":"affected the LGBT community on"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2096.93,"endTime":2101.43,"body":"campus. And that was something"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2101.43,"endTime":2105.6,"body":"that I thought was was really"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2101.43,"endTime":2105.6,"body":"great to just just to see the"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2105.6,"endTime":2109.77,"body":"straight students reaching out"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2105.6,"endTime":2109.77,"body":"looking for understanding. And"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2109.77,"endTime":2113.19,"body":"I, I saw a lot of that I think I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2109.77,"endTime":2113.19,"body":"think that there was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2113.49,"endTime":2117.0,"body":"people who gained a better"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2113.49,"endTime":2117.0,"body":"perspective. After all of this."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2117.12,"endTime":2121.83,"body":"They're trying to understand how"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2117.12,"endTime":2121.83,"body":"this affected us LGBT students"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2121.83,"endTime":2124.83,"body":"on campus, you know, the pain"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2121.83,"endTime":2124.83,"body":"that that it caused, because I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2124.83,"endTime":2127.5,"body":"think a lot of people saw this"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2124.83,"endTime":2127.5,"body":"and thought, \"Oh, this just kind"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2127.5,"endTime":2131.97,"body":"of set things back to the way it"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2127.5,"endTime":2131.97,"body":"was before.\" And kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2131.97,"endTime":2136.56,"body":"overlooked the fact that there"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2131.97,"endTime":2136.56,"body":"was so much pain that that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2136.56,"endTime":2139.92,"body":"happened over the course of this"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2136.56,"endTime":2139.92,"body":"reversal."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2139.99,"endTime":2142.18,"body":"Yeah, and I think that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2139.99,"endTime":2142.18,"body":"really important to acknowledge"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2142.18,"endTime":2145.93,"body":"that. Now, whether you agree"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2142.18,"endTime":2145.93,"body":"with BYU stance on same sex"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2145.93,"endTime":2148.66,"body":"romantic behavior or not, it was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2145.93,"endTime":2148.66,"body":"something that was really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2148.66,"endTime":2153.13,"body":"painful for a lot of people. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2148.66,"endTime":2153.13,"body":"I remember reading that letter"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2153.13,"endTime":2156.16,"body":"from Elder Johnson in my office,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2153.13,"endTime":2156.16,"body":"and just sobbing, like, I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2156.16,"endTime":2159.16,"body":"like, put my head down, and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2156.16,"endTime":2159.16,"body":"cried. And I went and talked to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2159.16,"endTime":2162.19,"body":"my boss, Kevin Utt, who was the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2159.16,"endTime":2162.19,"body":"Honor Code director. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2162.19,"endTime":2165.61,"body":"remember telling him about this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2162.19,"endTime":2165.61,"body":"experience I'd had years ago,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2165.61,"endTime":2168.4,"body":"when I was living in Tucson, one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2165.61,"endTime":2168.4,"body":"of the times I was close to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2168.4,"endTime":2170.92,"body":"leaving the church, and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2168.4,"endTime":2170.92,"body":"remember just attending church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2170.92,"endTime":2173.59,"body":"and just being like, but I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2170.92,"endTime":2173.59,"body":"like, so mad that day and just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2173.59,"endTime":2176.17,"body":"like being at church just hurt."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2173.59,"endTime":2176.17,"body":"And it was hard. It was painful."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2176.68,"endTime":2179.38,"body":"And as soon as Saturday was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2176.68,"endTime":2179.38,"body":"over, I was just going to head"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2179.38,"endTime":2183.34,"body":"home. And my friend was sitting"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2179.38,"endTime":2183.34,"body":"next to could tell I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2183.34,"endTime":2184.6,"body":"okay. She leaned over and said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2183.34,"endTime":2184.6,"body":"\"Are you okay Ben?\" And I said,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2184.6,"endTime":2187.81,"body":"\"No, I am upset. I'm leaving,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2184.6,"endTime":2187.81,"body":"I'm going home.\" And she was the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2187.81,"endTime":2189.58,"body":"primary president. She said,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2187.81,"endTime":2189.58,"body":"\"Why don't you just come to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2189.58,"endTime":2193.21,"body":"primary with us Ben?\" And so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2189.58,"endTime":2193.21,"body":"went and sat and sang primary"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2193.21,"endTime":2196.24,"body":"songs for two hours, and it just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2193.21,"endTime":2196.24,"body":"like, healed my heart. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2196.24,"endTime":2199.15,"body":"felt God's love and felt the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2196.24,"endTime":2199.15,"body":"spirit and that just like really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2199.15,"endTime":2201.76,"body":"healed me. And I was saying to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2199.15,"endTime":2201.76,"body":"Kevin, I said, \"There are so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2201.76,"endTime":2203.98,"body":"many students were hurting"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2201.76,"endTime":2203.98,"body":"today, like who's gonna invite"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2203.98,"endTime":2206.29,"body":"them to go to primary? Who's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2203.98,"endTime":2206.29,"body":"gonna make sure that they're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2206.29,"endTime":2210.31,"body":"okay?\" And so I made sure that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2206.29,"endTime":2210.31,"body":"over the next couple days, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2210.31,"endTime":2213.13,"body":"anyone who needed just like, be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2210.31,"endTime":2213.13,"body":"in pain, and just like, come"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2213.13,"endTime":2215.86,"body":"talk to me could come and talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2213.13,"endTime":2215.86,"body":"to me, at a number students come"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2215.86,"endTime":2220.93,"body":"my office and yell at me and cry"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2215.86,"endTime":2220.93,"body":"with me. Because I just felt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2220.93,"endTime":2224.14,"body":"like it was so important that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2220.93,"endTime":2224.14,"body":"people had a place to go. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2224.14,"endTime":2228.4,"body":"Kevin and I have met with dozens"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2224.14,"endTime":2228.4,"body":"of students together, just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2228.55,"endTime":2232.45,"body":"hearing them express their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2228.55,"endTime":2232.45,"body":"feelings, and letting them talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2232.45,"endTime":2235.57,"body":"about what was going on. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2232.45,"endTime":2235.57,"body":"after every single meeting,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2235.57,"endTime":2238.99,"body":"Kevin always asked me every"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2235.57,"endTime":2238.99,"body":"single time he said, \"Ben, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2238.99,"endTime":2241.36,"body":"did I do that okay? Like, what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2238.99,"endTime":2241.36,"body":"can I say differently? What can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2241.36,"endTime":2243.94,"body":"I say better?\" Just making sure"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2241.36,"endTime":2243.94,"body":"that he was in a place where he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2243.94,"endTime":2246.73,"body":"was making sure that all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2243.94,"endTime":2246.73,"body":"students felt welcomed and loved"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2246.73,"endTime":2249.76,"body":"and, and Kevin is willing to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2246.73,"endTime":2249.76,"body":"talk to any student, any current"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2249.76,"endTime":2252.25,"body":"student, not someone who's not a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2249.76,"endTime":2252.25,"body":"current student, because he has"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2252.25,"endTime":2255.61,"body":"like a job to do. But any"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2252.25,"endTime":2255.61,"body":"current student who wants to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2255.61,"endTime":2257.86,"body":"come talk about the Honor Code,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2255.61,"endTime":2257.86,"body":"he is willing to have a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2257.86,"endTime":2258.55,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2259.0,"endTime":2260.74,"body":"I like how you said"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2259.0,"endTime":2260.74,"body":"making sure that people feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2260.74,"endTime":2263.95,"body":"like they have a place to go. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2260.74,"endTime":2263.95,"body":"don't know how that wasn't in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2263.95,"endTime":2266.71,"body":"the past. But I think moving"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2263.95,"endTime":2266.71,"body":"forward, there is a place to go"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2266.71,"endTime":2270.64,"body":"at BYU. There, there are ally"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2266.71,"endTime":2270.64,"body":"communities. I mean, all three"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2270.64,"endTime":2274.39,"body":"of us are there. We're all gay."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2270.64,"endTime":2274.39,"body":"There's a group called USGA,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2274.39,"endTime":2278.23,"body":"which is like LGBTQ resource,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2274.39,"endTime":2278.23,"body":"like unofficial student group."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2278.71,"endTime":2282.67,"body":"And I really believe it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2278.71,"endTime":2282.67,"body":"possible to build your own kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2282.67,"endTime":2286.12,"body":"of like subculture and sub"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2282.67,"endTime":2286.12,"body":"community at BYU. It takes a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2286.12,"endTime":2288.7,"body":"little bit of effort. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2286.12,"endTime":2288.7,"body":"think that is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2288.7,"endTime":2294.01,"body":"necessary in any, like larger"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2288.7,"endTime":2294.01,"body":"culture, like you can adapt it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2294.01,"endTime":2297.07,"body":"and create an environment where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2294.01,"endTime":2297.07,"body":"you are safe and where you are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2297.07,"endTime":2300.64,"body":"comfortable. I think it's very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2297.07,"endTime":2300.64,"body":"possible. And I'm really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2300.64,"endTime":2303.43,"body":"grateful that I was able to do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2300.64,"endTime":2303.43,"body":"that, because BYU gave me some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2303.43,"endTime":2305.65,"body":"of the most incredible"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2303.43,"endTime":2305.65,"body":"experiences of my life."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2306.62,"endTime":2308.27,"body":"And there's also the Office"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2306.62,"endTime":2308.27,"body":"of Student Success and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2308.27,"endTime":2312.44,"body":"Inclusion, which this last year"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2308.27,"endTime":2312.44,"body":"started doing LGBT programming."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2312.44,"endTime":2315.62,"body":"So they had a Christmas party,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2312.44,"endTime":2315.62,"body":"they had some \"get to know you\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2315.65,"endTime":2319.01,"body":"nights, they had a \"reconciling"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2315.65,"endTime":2319.01,"body":"faith and sexuality panel\" that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2319.01,"endTime":2321.5,"body":"I participated in. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2319.01,"endTime":2321.5,"body":"know what their programming is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2321.5,"endTime":2324.83,"body":"gonna look like this year with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2321.5,"endTime":2324.83,"body":"the pandemic, but the the Office"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2324.83,"endTime":2327.95,"body":"of Student Success and Inclusion"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2324.83,"endTime":2327.95,"body":"is, is working to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2327.98,"endTime":2331.1,"body":"that LGBTQ students feel like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2327.98,"endTime":2331.1,"body":"they have a place to belong."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2331.19,"endTime":2333.5,"body":"Yeah, I think that's, I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2331.19,"endTime":2333.5,"body":"think that's super important. I"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2333.5,"endTime":2336.83,"body":"think it's super important for"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2333.5,"endTime":2336.83,"body":"students to be able to connect"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2336.83,"endTime":2340.22,"body":"to people, whether it's through"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2336.83,"endTime":2340.22,"body":"the Office of Student Success,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2340.22,"endTime":2343.67,"body":"and Inclusion, or through USGA,"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2340.22,"endTime":2343.67,"body":"or just through through friends"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2343.67,"endTime":2346.73,"body":"that you meet on campus, just to"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2343.67,"endTime":2346.73,"body":"be able to build that sense of"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2346.73,"endTime":2351.2,"body":"community to have people that"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2346.73,"endTime":2351.2,"body":"you can talk to especially when"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2351.98,"endTime":2355.55,"body":"complicated and traumatic things"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2351.98,"endTime":2355.55,"body":"happen like this, this Honor"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2355.55,"endTime":2361.4,"body":"Code issue. It is absolutely"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2355.55,"endTime":2361.4,"body":"vital to have that, that support"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2361.46,"endTime":2361.97,"body":"system."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2363.16,"endTime":2365.2,"body":"And if there are students"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2363.16,"endTime":2365.2,"body":"who were concerned about coming"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2365.2,"endTime":2368.11,"body":"to BYU, like, it can be a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2365.2,"endTime":2368.11,"body":"painful place to be, it can be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2368.11,"endTime":2372.28,"body":"tough, but I like I love BYU, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2368.11,"endTime":2372.28,"body":"do. Like I spent so much time"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2372.28,"endTime":2374.77,"body":"there. Like I love it. It's my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2372.28,"endTime":2374.77,"body":"home. There's nowhere on earth"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2374.77,"endTime":2378.67,"body":"I'd rather be and if you want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2374.77,"endTime":2378.67,"body":"come to BYU, like, you can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2378.7,"endTime":2382.09,"body":"always come talk to me. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2378.7,"endTime":2382.09,"body":"there will be many people who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2382.09,"endTime":2383.08,"body":"are willing to support you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2383.71,"endTime":2385.69,"body":"BYU also has the best"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2383.71,"endTime":2385.69,"body":"mascot."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2388.06,"endTime":2389.32,"body":"And a great mathlete team."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2390.37,"endTime":2391.03,"body":"True."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2393.16,"endTime":2395.17,"body":"Alright, Michael, thanks."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2393.16,"endTime":2395.17,"body":"Thank you so much for coming and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2395.17,"endTime":2397.51,"body":"we appreciate you sharing your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2395.17,"endTime":2397.51,"body":"perspectives and for being a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2397.57,"endTime":2401.35,"body":"great faculty member mathlete"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2397.57,"endTime":2401.35,"body":"coach and openly gay faculty"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2401.35,"endTime":2401.71,"body":"member."},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2402.13,"endTime":2403.27,"body":"Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Michael","startTime":2402.13,"endTime":2403.27,"body":"having me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2404.26,"endTime":2406.51,"body":"Thank you for joining"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2404.26,"endTime":2406.51,"body":"us today. If you have enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2406.51,"endTime":2408.79,"body":"this or other episodes, please"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2406.51,"endTime":2408.79,"body":"consider leaving us an apple"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2408.79,"endTime":2412.33,"body":"podcast review. And as always,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2408.79,"endTime":2412.33,"body":"please remember that we do not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2412.33,"endTime":2414.94,"body":"represent the Church of Jesus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2412.33,"endTime":2414.94,"body":"Christ of Latter-day Saints or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2414.94,"endTime":2416.08,"body":"Brigham Young University"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2416.08,"endTime":2416.8,"body":"Especially today."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2417.4,"endTime":2420.46,"body":"Especially today. We"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2417.4,"endTime":2420.46,"body":"are not trying to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2420.46,"endTime":2422.86,"body":"prescriptive or tell anyone what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2420.46,"endTime":2422.86,"body":"to think or what to do."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2423.44,"endTime":2424.85,"body":"You've heard three"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2423.44,"endTime":2424.85,"body":"perspectives today, and there"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2424.85,"endTime":2427.13,"body":"are many, many more. We"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2424.85,"endTime":2427.13,"body":"encourage you to listen to other"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2427.13,"endTime":2429.86,"body":"voices and hear a wide variety"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2427.13,"endTime":2429.86,"body":"of experiences. If you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2429.86,"endTime":2432.2,"body":"submit a question or share a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2429.86,"endTime":2432.2,"body":"comment about today's episode,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2432.2,"endTime":2434.84,"body":"you can email us at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2432.2,"endTime":2434.84,"body":"questionsfromthecloset@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2435.02,"endTime":2435.71,"body":"Until next time..."}]}