{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.58,"endTime":7.8,"body":"Welcome to Questions"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.58,"endTime":7.8,"body":"from the Closet. I'm Charlie"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":7.8,"endTime":8.19,"body":"Bird."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.52,"endTime":11.28,"body":"And I'm Ben Schilaty. Each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.52,"endTime":11.28,"body":"episode we discuss a question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":11.28,"endTime":13.89,"body":"that we commonly get asked as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":11.28,"endTime":13.89,"body":"LGBTQ Latter-day Saints."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":14.04,"endTime":15.99,"body":"We're not trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":14.04,"endTime":15.99,"body":"answer this question or come to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":15.99,"endTime":18.96,"body":"a consensus but simply sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":15.99,"endTime":18.96,"body":"our perspectives. Today's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":18.96,"endTime":21.27,"body":"question is, did pornography"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":18.96,"endTime":21.27,"body":"make me gay?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":21.72,"endTime":23.31,"body":"Charlie and I are not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":21.72,"endTime":23.31,"body":"terribly diverse. And we share"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":23.31,"endTime":25.5,"body":"many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":23.31,"endTime":25.5,"body":"experiences. For example, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":25.5,"endTime":27.87,"body":"both grew up with dial up"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":25.5,"endTime":27.87,"body":"internet in our houses."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":28.05,"endTime":30.27,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":28.05,"endTime":30.27,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":30.27,"endTime":34.26,"body":"example, Ben's parents graduated"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":30.27,"endTime":34.26,"body":"to WiFi and mine still have not."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":35.01,"endTime":37.47,"body":"Which is kind of crazy,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":35.01,"endTime":37.47,"body":"because my parents are both very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":37.47,"endTime":37.92,"body":"old."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":38.13,"endTime":40.59,"body":"And like, it's 2020"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":38.13,"endTime":40.59,"body":"people. And actually, my parents"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":40.59,"endTime":43.14,"body":"are divorced. So they, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":40.59,"endTime":43.14,"body":"live in two different places,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":43.14,"endTime":48.81,"body":"and neither of them has WiFi."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":43.14,"endTime":48.81,"body":"Still. It's really amazing."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.14,"endTime":51.54,"body":"My parents have WiFi and my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.14,"endTime":51.54,"body":"dad actually just got his first"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":51.54,"endTime":54.54,"body":"Smart TV, which he loves. He was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":51.54,"endTime":54.54,"body":"actually telling me that he was."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":54.81,"endTime":58.32,"body":"He's like, yeah, I watched like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":54.81,"endTime":58.32,"body":"10 episodes of this show, The"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":58.32,"endTime":60.96,"body":"New Girl, I think it's called in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":58.32,"endTime":60.96,"body":"like one day. And I said, dad,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":60.96,"endTime":64.05,"body":"that's called binging. And he's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":60.96,"endTime":64.05,"body":"like, ooooh, it was fun."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":64.47,"endTime":65.04,"body":"So..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.82,"endTime":66.51,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":67.08,"endTime":68.76,"body":"We would like to provide a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":67.08,"endTime":68.76,"body":"variety of voices and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":68.76,"endTime":71.79,"body":"perspectives. So today, we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":68.76,"endTime":71.79,"body":"joined by Liam Essig. Welcome,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":71.79,"endTime":72.18,"body":"Liam."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":72.45,"endTime":74.01,"body":"Thank you. I'm happy to be"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":72.45,"endTime":74.01,"body":"here."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":74.13,"endTime":75.6,"body":"Great. Well, tell us a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":74.13,"endTime":75.6,"body":"little bit about yourself."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":75.69,"endTime":78.51,"body":"I'm currently a graduate"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":75.69,"endTime":78.51,"body":"student at Penn State"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":78.51,"endTime":83.04,"body":"University. But for several"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":78.51,"endTime":83.04,"body":"years, I was studying addiction"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":83.04,"endTime":87.48,"body":"and pornography use while at"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":83.04,"endTime":87.48,"body":"Utah, Brigham Young University"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":87.78,"endTime":91.5,"body":"during my undergrad and master's"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":87.78,"endTime":91.5,"body":"degrees. Through that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":91.5,"endTime":94.86,"body":"it was never my intention to, to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":91.5,"endTime":94.86,"body":"make that something I really"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":94.86,"endTime":99.54,"body":"did. But it kind of happened"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":94.86,"endTime":99.54,"body":"organically and ended up I ended"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":99.54,"endTime":103.05,"body":"up presenting across the United"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":99.54,"endTime":103.05,"body":"States and traveling to Europe"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":103.05,"endTime":106.05,"body":"to present to church leadership"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":103.05,"endTime":106.05,"body":"and members on addiction,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":106.35,"endTime":110.31,"body":"presented to at church"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":106.35,"endTime":110.31,"body":"headquarters and to the mission"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":110.31,"endTime":113.73,"body":"presidents and MTC presidents"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":110.31,"endTime":113.73,"body":"through the mission department"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":113.73,"endTime":116.67,"body":"as well. So it, yeah, it was"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":113.73,"endTime":116.67,"body":"kind of an interesting"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":116.67,"endTime":121.44,"body":"experience. But I came somewhat"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":116.67,"endTime":121.44,"body":"of a armchair expert on"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":121.5,"endTime":124.74,"body":"pornography and addiction. And"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":121.5,"endTime":124.74,"body":"it's been a really cool"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":124.74,"endTime":127.8,"body":"opportunity. And I've realized"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":124.74,"endTime":127.8,"body":"there's been a big need to talk"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":127.8,"endTime":131.73,"body":"about this and study this,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":127.8,"endTime":131.73,"body":"especially within the church and"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":131.73,"endTime":132.39,"body":"community."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":132.69,"endTime":134.34,"body":"Fantastic. Well, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":132.69,"endTime":134.34,"body":"thrilled to have you here"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":134.34,"endTime":138.03,"body":"someone who is a as it may be an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":134.34,"endTime":138.03,"body":"armchair expert, maybe an actual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":138.03,"endTime":141.99,"body":"expert doing something else now."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":138.03,"endTime":141.99,"body":"And you know, as a as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":141.99,"endTime":145.5,"body":"therapist, I've worked with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":141.99,"endTime":145.5,"body":"clients who are using"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":145.5,"endTime":148.08,"body":"pornography and unwanted ways"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":145.5,"endTime":148.08,"body":"and helping them work through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":148.08,"endTime":151.59,"body":"that. So I've got, I'm a bit of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":148.08,"endTime":151.59,"body":"an armchair expert myself, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":151.59,"endTime":152.91,"body":"maybe much less than you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":153.93,"endTime":156.78,"body":"And as a YSA, I have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":153.93,"endTime":156.78,"body":"friends who talk to me about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":156.78,"endTime":159.48,"body":"pornography. So I'm also an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":156.78,"endTime":159.48,"body":"armchair expert."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":160.56,"endTime":161.7,"body":"That's where I started."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":164.669,"endTime":167.759,"body":"Fantastic. Well, Liam,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":164.669,"endTime":167.759,"body":"we get messages regularly. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":167.759,"endTime":170.129,"body":"you know, I'll have friends talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":167.759,"endTime":170.129,"body":"to me, and they'll say things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":170.129,"endTime":172.319,"body":"like, I looked at gay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":170.129,"endTime":172.319,"body":"pornography when I was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":172.319,"endTime":174.659,"body":"teenager, and I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":172.319,"endTime":174.659,"body":"pornography, looking at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":174.659,"endTime":177.359,"body":"looking at pornography made me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":174.659,"endTime":177.359,"body":"gay. What would you say to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":177.359,"endTime":178.439,"body":"someone who said that to you?"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":179.28,"endTime":182.1,"body":"I mean, the short answer"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":179.28,"endTime":182.1,"body":"is, no, that didn't make you"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":182.1,"endTime":186.03,"body":"gay. It was funny when when I"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":182.1,"endTime":186.03,"body":"heard that this was the top---"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":186.06,"endTime":189.99,"body":"the question that was going to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":186.06,"endTime":189.99,"body":"be the title of the podcast, I"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":189.99,"endTime":191.82,"body":"was like, well, this is going to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":189.99,"endTime":191.82,"body":"be a really short episode,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":191.82,"endTime":196.44,"body":"because the answer is no."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":191.82,"endTime":196.44,"body":"Pornography does not make"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":196.44,"endTime":200.07,"body":"anybody gay. Oh, I think one of"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":196.44,"endTime":200.07,"body":"the reasons this comes up is"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":200.07,"endTime":203.67,"body":"because I think especially"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":200.07,"endTime":203.67,"body":"within the LDS culture, there is"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":203.67,"endTime":207.42,"body":"a lot of misunderstanding about"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":203.67,"endTime":207.42,"body":"sexuality, especially"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":207.42,"endTime":211.38,"body":"homosexuality or other sexual"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":207.42,"endTime":211.38,"body":"minorities. And so they want"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":211.41,"endTime":214.29,"body":"answers. And so they look to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":211.41,"endTime":214.29,"body":"things that they can try and"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":214.29,"endTime":219.18,"body":"pinpoint, to identify where that"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":214.29,"endTime":219.18,"body":"may have taken hold. And for"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":219.18,"endTime":224.85,"body":"many people who even are LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":219.18,"endTime":224.85,"body":"if, eventually we like, we all"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":224.85,"endTime":227.46,"body":"have to come to terms with our"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":224.85,"endTime":227.46,"body":"sexuality. And there are"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":227.46,"endTime":230.37,"body":"triggers for all of us,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":227.46,"endTime":230.37,"body":"regardless of what our sexuality"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":230.37,"endTime":234.81,"body":"is, all of us eventually come"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":230.37,"endTime":234.81,"body":"across some stimuli that starts"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":234.81,"endTime":237.99,"body":"to play into the narratives"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":234.81,"endTime":237.99,"body":"about our sexuality, and for"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":237.99,"endTime":241.83,"body":"many people, if you're gay, and"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":237.99,"endTime":241.83,"body":"then you see gay pornography,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":241.83,"endTime":245.13,"body":"and then it's like, oh, well,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":241.83,"endTime":245.13,"body":"this is where it started. It's"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":245.13,"endTime":248.76,"body":"like, well, no, why did you"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":245.13,"endTime":248.76,"body":"continue then to choose to seek"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":248.76,"endTime":251.46,"body":"out gay pornography as opposed"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":248.76,"endTime":251.46,"body":"to straight pornography? Like"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":251.49,"endTime":254.52,"body":"it's not necessarily that it"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":251.49,"endTime":254.52,"body":"causes that but it can help to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":254.52,"endTime":258.96,"body":"identify preferences, depending"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":254.52,"endTime":258.96,"body":"on what what stimulates you and"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":258.96,"endTime":261.15,"body":"what you what you choose to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":258.96,"endTime":261.15,"body":"continue to look at."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":261.569,"endTime":263.789,"body":"You make a really good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":261.569,"endTime":263.789,"body":"point. I feel like pornography"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":263.789,"endTime":266.609,"body":"is arguably one of the easiest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":263.789,"endTime":266.609,"body":"ways to explore sexuality"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":266.789,"endTime":270.209,"body":"without anybody really knowing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":266.789,"endTime":270.209,"body":"And when you're gay, like that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":270.209,"endTime":273.299,"body":"exploration that, that you feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":270.209,"endTime":273.299,"body":"like nobody else can know. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":273.299,"endTime":276.359,"body":"mean, being gay within this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":273.299,"endTime":276.359,"body":"religious culture is incredibly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.359,"endTime":280.739,"body":"shame-filled and and secretive."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.359,"endTime":280.739,"body":"When I'm thinking about like me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":280.739,"endTime":284.369,"body":"growing up, I couldn't date I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":280.739,"endTime":284.369,"body":"couldn't like a guy I couldn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":284.549,"endTime":288.329,"body":"like explore a relationship with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":284.549,"endTime":288.329,"body":"someone because I was a member"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":288.329,"endTime":290.129,"body":"of the Church of Jesus Christ of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":288.329,"endTime":290.129,"body":"Latter-day Saints, right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":290.369,"endTime":293.939,"body":"Straight people can figure it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":290.369,"endTime":293.939,"body":"out that way, but gay people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":293.939,"endTime":296.699,"body":"like what other outlets are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":293.939,"endTime":296.699,"body":"there really, you know, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":296.699,"endTime":300.929,"body":"there are others but like, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":296.699,"endTime":300.929,"body":"is the most common and. Am I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":300.929,"endTime":301.679,"body":"making sense?"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":302.02,"endTime":305.11,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And I would"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":302.02,"endTime":305.11,"body":"100% agree, I think, especially"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":305.11,"endTime":308.47,"body":"since there's not a lot of"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":305.11,"endTime":308.47,"body":"dialogue around sexuality in"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":308.47,"endTime":311.77,"body":"general, significantly less so"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":308.47,"endTime":311.77,"body":"when it comes to sexual"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":311.77,"endTime":315.28,"body":"minorities within the church."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":311.77,"endTime":315.28,"body":"There's not even a conversation"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":315.28,"endTime":319.78,"body":"to like come to terms with one's"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":315.28,"endTime":319.78,"body":"sexuality or, so not even like"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":319.78,"endTime":322.72,"body":"seeking out some sexual"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":319.78,"endTime":322.72,"body":"experience, but like just"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":322.78,"endTime":328.12,"body":"understanding sex. So I think I"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":322.78,"endTime":328.12,"body":"definitely agree with you. It's"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":328.15,"endTime":332.17,"body":"kind of an I don't want to call"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":328.15,"endTime":332.17,"body":"it a drug. But it's like, it's"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":332.17,"endTime":335.44,"body":"kind of like a gateway drug to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":332.17,"endTime":335.44,"body":"sexuality. And that, like, for"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":335.44,"endTime":338.11,"body":"many people, their sexual"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":335.44,"endTime":338.11,"body":"experience often begins with"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":338.11,"endTime":340.9,"body":"pornography. And that's what I"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":338.11,"endTime":340.9,"body":"mean by that not like you start"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":340.9,"endTime":343.81,"body":"looking at pornography, and then"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":340.9,"endTime":343.81,"body":"it leads you down this road to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":343.84,"endTime":347.38,"body":"all these terrible things. We"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":343.84,"endTime":347.38,"body":"can talk about that and some of"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":347.38,"endTime":353.38,"body":"that narrative within our church"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":347.38,"endTime":353.38,"body":"but the majority of so over 85%"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":353.74,"endTime":356.53,"body":"of youth in America today are"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":353.74,"endTime":356.53,"body":"learning about sex through"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":356.53,"endTime":361.93,"body":"pornography, regardless of their"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":356.53,"endTime":361.93,"body":"sexuality. So it's not something"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":361.93,"endTime":364.81,"body":"that that just or, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":364.96,"endTime":366.7,"body":"Like you said, it's one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":364.96,"endTime":366.7,"body":"of the first stimuli."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":367.18,"endTime":371.11,"body":"Yes. Yes. And so, and it's"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":367.18,"endTime":371.11,"body":"a very easy, convenient way to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":371.11,"endTime":374.71,"body":"explore that sexuality without"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":371.11,"endTime":374.71,"body":"bringing other people into it."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":374.71,"endTime":376.72,"body":"And that can lead to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":374.71,"endTime":376.72,"body":"uncomfortable conversations and"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":376.72,"endTime":377.89,"body":"things like that. So..."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":378.25,"endTime":380.68,"body":"Yeah. So what I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":378.25,"endTime":380.68,"body":"hearing you say is that someone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":380.71,"endTime":385.12,"body":"will naturally explore"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":380.71,"endTime":385.12,"body":"sexuality, will be curious about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":385.12,"endTime":388.81,"body":"things might come across"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":385.12,"endTime":388.81,"body":"pornography, and someone who,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":388.84,"endTime":393.49,"body":"who might later identify as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":388.84,"endTime":393.49,"body":"lesbian or gay or bisexual might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":393.49,"endTime":396.07,"body":"have come across gay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":393.49,"endTime":396.07,"body":"pornography, and then think, oh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":396.07,"endTime":398.65,"body":"well, this is what made me gay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":396.07,"endTime":398.65,"body":"because of this underlying fear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":398.65,"endTime":400.45,"body":"of there's something that went"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":398.65,"endTime":400.45,"body":"wrong, something that made me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":400.45,"endTime":402.76,"body":"this way, when in reality, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":400.45,"endTime":402.76,"body":"you're saying is, they're just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.76,"endTime":405.46,"body":"gonna look, they're gonna seek"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.76,"endTime":405.46,"body":"out the things that they find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":405.64,"endTime":407.8,"body":"engaging, and stimulating, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":405.64,"endTime":407.8,"body":"enticing."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":408.38,"endTime":412.25,"body":"Yes, I actually have a"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":408.38,"endTime":412.25,"body":"really good friend who was first"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":412.25,"endTime":416.39,"body":"exposed to pornography when he"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":412.25,"endTime":416.39,"body":"was seven, but it was it was"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":416.63,"endTime":420.29,"body":"straight porn. So it was like it"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":416.63,"endTime":420.29,"body":"was female porn. He saw and it"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":420.29,"endTime":423.44,"body":"was like, he was kind of just"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":420.29,"endTime":423.44,"body":"curious about the anatomy of the"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":423.44,"endTime":427.16,"body":"female more than it was like,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":423.44,"endTime":427.16,"body":"really sexual. So that was like"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":427.25,"endTime":429.77,"body":"his first exposure to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":427.25,"endTime":429.77,"body":"pornography was at the age of"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":429.77,"endTime":433.22,"body":"seven. At about 12 or 13,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":429.77,"endTime":433.22,"body":"though, he started looking at"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":433.22,"endTime":437.72,"body":"gay porn, and he's, he's gay,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":433.22,"endTime":437.72,"body":"but he likes so if he were to"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":437.81,"endTime":442.28,"body":"say, oh, well, the gay porn made"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":437.81,"endTime":442.28,"body":"me gay. It's like, well, you"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":442.28,"endTime":445.34,"body":"you've probably been exposed,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":442.28,"endTime":445.34,"body":"and most people have been"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":445.34,"endTime":450.65,"body":"exposed to straight porn. At"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":445.34,"endTime":450.65,"body":"some point like it, it's so"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":450.65,"endTime":453.59,"body":"common, it's so prevalent that"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":450.65,"endTime":453.59,"body":"whether it's hardcore, or"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":453.59,"endTime":457.67,"body":"softcore, porn, like most people"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":453.59,"endTime":457.67,"body":"have, are exposed to pornography"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":457.79,"endTime":462.95,"body":"at some point. But if you're"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":457.79,"endTime":462.95,"body":"gay, that heterosexual porn may"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":462.95,"endTime":466.52,"body":"not influence you the same way."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":462.95,"endTime":466.52,"body":"Or it may, you may realize"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":466.52,"endTime":470.06,"body":"you're focusing on only one of"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":466.52,"endTime":470.06,"body":"the characters and then seek out"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":470.09,"endTime":474.53,"body":"more content, where there is"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":470.09,"endTime":474.53,"body":"more of your desired sex."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":475.32,"endTime":478.17,"body":"As you're talking, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":475.32,"endTime":478.17,"body":"picturing like, like a mom or a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":478.17,"endTime":482.46,"body":"dad of an LGBTQ kid who knows"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":478.17,"endTime":482.46,"body":"that their kid was like, exposed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":482.46,"endTime":485.28,"body":"to pornography at an early age."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":482.46,"endTime":485.28,"body":"And they're wondering, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":485.28,"endTime":486.9,"body":"is that something that that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":485.28,"endTime":486.9,"body":"contributed it to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":486.9,"endTime":488.76,"body":"orientation? And what I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":486.9,"endTime":488.76,"body":"hearing you say is that's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":488.76,"endTime":489.24,"body":"the case."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":489.96,"endTime":493.08,"body":"Correct? Yeah. Again,"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":489.96,"endTime":493.08,"body":"sexuality is complicated, but"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":493.08,"endTime":497.31,"body":"it's, it's it's definitely not"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":493.08,"endTime":497.31,"body":"pornography. While there is some"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":497.31,"endTime":502.11,"body":"nuance around the complexities"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":497.31,"endTime":502.11,"body":"of sexuality it's not a complex"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":502.11,"endTime":506.49,"body":"answer, that pornography does"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":502.11,"endTime":506.49,"body":"not make someone gay or make"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":506.49,"endTime":509.22,"body":"someone straight. It doesn't"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":506.49,"endTime":509.22,"body":"have that power over our"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":509.22,"endTime":510.12,"body":"sexuality."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":510.39,"endTime":513.09,"body":"I guess it's kind of like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":510.39,"endTime":513.09,"body":"the classic example of people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":513.09,"endTime":516.81,"body":"use umbrellas when it rains. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":513.09,"endTime":516.81,"body":"using an umbrella doesn't make"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":516.81,"endTime":517.2,"body":"it rain."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":517.72,"endTime":520.27,"body":"Yes, that's a. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":517.72,"endTime":520.27,"body":"that's very good. I've never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":520.27,"endTime":521.8,"body":"even heard that one. But that'"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":520.27,"endTime":521.8,"body":"great."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":522.25,"endTime":525.94,"body":"As we're talking, I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":522.25,"endTime":525.94,"body":"about how the shame that centers"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.94,"endTime":530.59,"body":"around being LGBTQ can affect"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.94,"endTime":530.59,"body":"your response to viewing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":530.59,"endTime":531.31,"body":"pornography."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":531.57,"endTime":537.12,"body":"How like shame is compounded"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":531.57,"endTime":537.12,"body":"between sexuality and porn use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":537.24,"endTime":537.63,"body":"is that..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":537.72,"endTime":538.47,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":539.55,"endTime":542.58,"body":"Yeah. I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":539.55,"endTime":542.58,"body":"there's a lot of shame around"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.58,"endTime":548.58,"body":"pornography use generally within"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.58,"endTime":548.58,"body":"the church. But yes, I do think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":548.67,"endTime":552.3,"body":"it does compound. It's twice or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":548.67,"endTime":552.3,"body":"three or four times as much."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":552.45,"endTime":555.45,"body":"Oftentimes what you're even like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":552.45,"endTime":555.45,"body":"what you're seeking, it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":555.48,"endTime":558.18,"body":"the type of content that's also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":555.48,"endTime":558.18,"body":"being addressed and young men's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":558.18,"endTime":561.66,"body":"when they're talking to you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":558.18,"endTime":561.66,"body":"about how you should treat women"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":561.66,"endTime":565.47,"body":"or like, don't seek out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":561.66,"endTime":565.47,"body":"pornography because it will do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.47,"endTime":569.43,"body":"this or that. And, yes, I do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.47,"endTime":569.43,"body":"think there's definitely more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.79,"endTime":573.87,"body":"shame when it comes to sexual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.79,"endTime":573.87,"body":"minorities and talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":573.87,"endTime":577.38,"body":"this. Especially like, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":573.87,"endTime":577.38,"body":"want to go talk to a Bishop, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":577.38,"endTime":580.23,"body":"you want to get help, how do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":577.38,"endTime":580.23,"body":"talk about those types of things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":580.23,"endTime":582.9,"body":"without getting into more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":580.23,"endTime":582.9,"body":"trouble or outing yourself and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.9,"endTime":586.35,"body":"especially if you're not ready"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.9,"endTime":586.35,"body":"to do that What resources are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.35,"endTime":591.0,"body":"available to you? I mean, even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.35,"endTime":591.0,"body":"talking to your parents would be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":591.03,"endTime":595.23,"body":"much harder if like they start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":591.03,"endTime":595.23,"body":"asking questions about, okay,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":595.23,"endTime":598.32,"body":"well, like what what type of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":595.23,"endTime":598.32,"body":"stuff are you looking for and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":598.32,"endTime":602.16,"body":"things like that. So I think I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":598.32,"endTime":602.16,"body":"definitely think it does add to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":602.16,"endTime":605.04,"body":"the shame. And it becomes more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":602.16,"endTime":605.04,"body":"problematic because there are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":605.04,"endTime":608.16,"body":"fewer resources for those youth."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.63,"endTime":611.06,"body":"Yeah, and I know some people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.63,"endTime":611.06,"body":"who, you know, they, they were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.06,"endTime":613.91,"body":"looking at pornography as a as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.06,"endTime":613.91,"body":"teen, and they want to talk to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":613.91,"endTime":617.39,"body":"the parents about to work to not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":613.91,"endTime":617.39,"body":"look at anymore, and which I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.72,"endTime":619.34,"body":"think is incredibly mature of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.72,"endTime":619.34,"body":"them and their family"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.34,"endTime":622.34,"body":"relationship that that was even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.34,"endTime":622.34,"body":"a conversation. And then that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.34,"endTime":624.68,"body":"when it came out that he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.34,"endTime":624.68,"body":"looking at gay pornography. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":624.68,"endTime":627.02,"body":"that was a very, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":624.68,"endTime":627.02,"body":"wasn't a conversation that he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.02,"endTime":628.37,"body":"was looking to have at the time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":628.87,"endTime":631.51,"body":"Yeah, I kind of feel like in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":628.87,"endTime":631.51,"body":"way, the root of this question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.51,"endTime":634.18,"body":"is based in this idea that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.51,"endTime":634.18,"body":"pornography changes your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.18,"endTime":638.35,"body":"sexuality. And that's a message"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.18,"endTime":638.35,"body":"that, to a certain extent, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":638.35,"endTime":643.09,"body":"true, but is often communicated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":638.35,"endTime":643.09,"body":"through like religious conduits,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":643.09,"endTime":646.87,"body":"that viewing pornography alters"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":643.09,"endTime":646.87,"body":"your sexuality. It makes you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":647.17,"endTime":650.5,"body":"less able to be sexually engaged"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":647.17,"endTime":650.5,"body":"with a partner in the future."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.68,"endTime":654.07,"body":"Um, like all of these ways that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.68,"endTime":654.07,"body":"pornography can change the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":654.07,"endTime":658.57,"body":"you view sexuality. Currently,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":654.07,"endTime":658.57,"body":"in our culture, I feel like the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.57,"endTime":662.74,"body":"most damaging thing about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.57,"endTime":662.74,"body":"pornography is the shame that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":662.74,"endTime":666.13,"body":"comes with it. I feel very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":662.74,"endTime":666.13,"body":"lucky. I have friends who are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.13,"endTime":669.1,"body":"very open about this. And we've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.13,"endTime":669.1,"body":"really tried to like take away"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.37,"endTime":670.9,"body":"the the secretiveness..."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":670.9,"endTime":672.16,"body":"The stigma."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":670.92,"endTime":674.28,"body":"I don't know, like, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":670.92,"endTime":674.28,"body":"stigma about it. I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":674.28,"endTime":676.83,"body":"there's something that's really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":674.28,"endTime":676.83,"body":"healthy to talk about, and from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":676.83,"endTime":679.8,"body":"conversations with friends and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":676.83,"endTime":679.8,"body":"my own experiences as well. To"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":679.8,"endTime":685.41,"body":"be honest, it seems like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":679.8,"endTime":685.41,"body":"damage of pornography isn't I am"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":685.53,"endTime":688.26,"body":"unable to love someone because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":685.53,"endTime":688.26,"body":"I've used pornography. It's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":688.32,"endTime":692.19,"body":"like, the the mindset after"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":688.32,"endTime":692.19,"body":"viewing pornography is I did"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":692.19,"endTime":696.15,"body":"this thing. I'm a bad person. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":692.19,"endTime":696.15,"body":"view pornography. I am broken."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":696.18,"endTime":699.96,"body":"I'm damaged. I'm ruined. I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":696.18,"endTime":699.96,"body":"addicted. I'm wrong. And that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":699.96,"endTime":704.46,"body":"creates a shame cycle that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":699.96,"endTime":704.46,"body":"compounds just in general, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":704.46,"endTime":707.04,"body":"but also when you add this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":704.46,"endTime":707.04,"body":"element of being a sexual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":707.04,"endTime":711.63,"body":"minority, of being gay, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":707.04,"endTime":711.63,"body":"that shame spiral can become"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":711.63,"endTime":718.08,"body":"very intense. And so I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":711.63,"endTime":718.08,"body":"know, should I talk about my own"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":718.08,"endTime":720.42,"body":"experience with pornography?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":718.08,"endTime":720.42,"body":"Because I feel like yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":720.42,"endTime":722.37,"body":"know, I will, because I feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":720.42,"endTime":722.37,"body":"like this is something that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":722.37,"endTime":726.03,"body":"important to be said. And this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":722.37,"endTime":726.03,"body":"is not like, there should not be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":726.03,"endTime":729.6,"body":"stigma or shame around this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":726.03,"endTime":729.6,"body":"conversation. Similar to Liam,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":729.6,"endTime":733.08,"body":"like, as I was growing up some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":729.6,"endTime":733.08,"body":"of my first stimuli to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":733.08,"endTime":737.64,"body":"understand my sexuality, my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":733.08,"endTime":737.64,"body":"sexual orientation came from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":737.64,"endTime":741.69,"body":"images, right? That being said,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":737.64,"endTime":741.69,"body":"I was I was very naive. I was a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":741.69,"endTime":747.18,"body":"very just like, naive, good"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":741.69,"endTime":747.18,"body":"person. So I was never really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":747.18,"endTime":749.82,"body":"exposed to pornography until I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":747.18,"endTime":749.82,"body":"was a little bit older. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":749.82,"endTime":754.65,"body":"remember the first time that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":749.82,"endTime":754.65,"body":"was exposed and like, didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":754.68,"endTime":758.82,"body":"turn off like actual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":754.68,"endTime":758.82,"body":"pornography. I, when it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":758.82,"endTime":763.74,"body":"over, I became physically ill."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":758.82,"endTime":763.74,"body":"For three days. I felt like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":764.46,"endTime":768.18,"body":"horrible and I was vomiting. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":764.46,"endTime":768.18,"body":"was shaking. I was so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":768.18,"endTime":772.32,"body":"embarrassed. I felt so alone. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":768.18,"endTime":772.32,"body":"felt so trapped. I felt so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":772.32,"endTime":775.89,"body":"gross. And looking back, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":772.32,"endTime":775.89,"body":"wasn't because it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":775.89,"endTime":779.22,"body":"pornography. It was because it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":775.89,"endTime":779.22,"body":"was gay pornography. Other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":779.22,"endTime":781.05,"body":"friends I've talked to and they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":779.22,"endTime":781.05,"body":"talk about the first time they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":781.05,"endTime":782.46,"body":"looked at porn, and they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":781.05,"endTime":782.46,"body":"like, yeah, I felt really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":782.46,"endTime":785.82,"body":"guilty. But it was exciting."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":782.46,"endTime":785.82,"body":"And, and I kind of wanted to do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":785.82,"endTime":789.09,"body":"it again, but after this, lik"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":785.82,"endTime":789.09,"body":"I was I was retching on the fl"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":789.09,"endTime":792.06,"body":"or for like three days. And I j"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":789.09,"endTime":792.06,"body":"st told my family that I had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":792.06,"endTime":797.49,"body":"he flu. And this is something t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":792.06,"endTime":797.49,"body":"at like LGBTQ youth, especia"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":797.52,"endTime":800.04,"body":"ly because I mean, this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":797.52,"endTime":800.04,"body":"he first exposure, that's w"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":800.1,"endTime":803.61,"body":"at you're going through. So I f"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":800.1,"endTime":803.61,"body":"el like it's so important t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":803.64,"endTime":806.04,"body":"\"a\" remove the shame and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":803.64,"endTime":806.04,"body":"this feeling of I looked at por"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":806.04,"endTime":809.61,"body":", so I'm a terrible person. T"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":806.04,"endTime":809.61,"body":"at's that needs to go first of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":809.88,"endTime":813.12,"body":"all, but then this looking a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":809.88,"endTime":813.12,"body":"gay porn is worse than looki"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":813.12,"endTime":817.26,"body":"g at straight porn. That's not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":813.12,"endTime":817.26,"body":"true that that's not a thing."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":818.55,"endTime":819.3,"body":"Totally agree."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":819.3,"endTime":821.58,"body":"Charlie, thank you for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":819.3,"endTime":821.58,"body":"being so open and sharing all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":821.58,"endTime":824.79,"body":"that like that, that takes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":821.58,"endTime":824.79,"body":"courage. And thank you. How did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.79,"endTime":826.83,"body":"you? I mean, I know this is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.79,"endTime":826.83,"body":"long process and a long"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.83,"endTime":829.62,"body":"question, but like, how did you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.83,"endTime":829.62,"body":"get over that all that shame?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.71,"endTime":832.59,"body":"And maybe maybe getting over the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.71,"endTime":832.59,"body":"same isn't the right question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":832.59,"endTime":836.31,"body":"like, how did you get to a place"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":832.59,"endTime":836.31,"body":"where this wasn't making you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":836.37,"endTime":838.92,"body":"physically ill for three days"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":836.37,"endTime":838.92,"body":"where you could like actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":838.92,"endTime":840.06,"body":"move forward with your life?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.57,"endTime":843.3,"body":"Yeah, I think it's when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.57,"endTime":843.3,"body":"started really, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.3,"endTime":846.75,"body":"introspecting. And looking into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.3,"endTime":846.75,"body":"what it means to be me and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.75,"endTime":849.51,"body":"coming to understand my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.75,"endTime":849.51,"body":"orientation and how I view the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.51,"endTime":852.75,"body":"world. Part of that, in my case,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.51,"endTime":852.75,"body":"specifically came through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.78,"endTime":856.41,"body":"working with a therapist. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.78,"endTime":856.41,"body":"would never say that I've ever,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":856.41,"endTime":859.23,"body":"like been addicted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":856.41,"endTime":859.23,"body":"pornography, but there have been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.23,"endTime":865.83,"body":"times when I've viewed it more."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.23,"endTime":865.83,"body":"But usually, based on my mental"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.83,"endTime":870.18,"body":"stability. Right? Like times"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.83,"endTime":870.18,"body":"when I felt incredibly depressed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":870.18,"endTime":873.99,"body":"and incredibly isolated, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":870.18,"endTime":873.99,"body":"alone and stressed and anxious."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":874.05,"endTime":877.23,"body":"Those were the times that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":874.05,"endTime":877.23,"body":"would view pornography. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":877.38,"endTime":881.28,"body":"actually it's it was it was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":877.38,"endTime":881.28,"body":"little bit validating. I am"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":881.4,"endTime":884.94,"body":"currently in the doing a masters"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":881.4,"endTime":884.94,"body":"of social work at BYU. And in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.94,"endTime":887.55,"body":"one of our classes, we talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.94,"endTime":887.55,"body":"about pornography, and there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.55,"endTime":890.76,"body":"this acronym that's called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.55,"endTime":890.76,"body":"BLAST. The point was that like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":890.76,"endTime":892.62,"body":"lot of times people think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":890.76,"endTime":892.62,"body":"they're addicted to pornography,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":892.62,"endTime":896.31,"body":"but it's really just a BLAST"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":892.62,"endTime":896.31,"body":"situation, which is Boredom,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.37,"endTime":901.14,"body":"Lonely, Anxious, Stressed or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.37,"endTime":901.14,"body":"Tired. And so a lot of times"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":901.2,"endTime":904.98,"body":"when the body wants to look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":901.2,"endTime":904.98,"body":"pornography and does, it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":904.98,"endTime":907.26,"body":"because you're a bad person,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":904.98,"endTime":907.26,"body":"it's not because you have an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.26,"endTime":909.72,"body":"addiction. It's because you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.26,"endTime":909.72,"body":"bored or you're anxious or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":909.72,"endTime":912.33,"body":"you're stressed. There's like an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":909.72,"endTime":912.33,"body":"unmet need, that's not being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":912.33,"endTime":916.44,"body":"fulfilled. And then it's almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":912.33,"endTime":916.44,"body":"like a natural response to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":916.44,"endTime":919.56,"body":"body because the kick you get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":916.44,"endTime":919.56,"body":"from porn is almost like an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":919.56,"endTime":923.64,"body":"antidote for these feelings. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":919.56,"endTime":923.64,"body":"like kicks back against anxiety,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.64,"endTime":925.8,"body":"and it kicks back against"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.64,"endTime":925.8,"body":"depression. Does that make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":925.8,"endTime":926.01,"body":"sense?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":926.0,"endTime":930.86,"body":"Yes. Oh, 100% agree with with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":926.0,"endTime":930.86,"body":"everything you're saying. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":930.86,"endTime":934.49,"body":"So it's a coping mechanism. I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":930.86,"endTime":934.49,"body":"gonna rewind a little bit back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.49,"endTime":937.46,"body":"to some of the things you said."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.49,"endTime":937.46,"body":"Like, I think, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.46,"endTime":941.84,"body":"important. And like, I was also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.46,"endTime":941.84,"body":"exposed to pornography and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.84,"endTime":944.36,"body":"continue to seek it out like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.84,"endTime":944.36,"body":"and it was something I talked to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":944.36,"endTime":948.2,"body":"Bishops about. I went on my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":944.36,"endTime":948.2,"body":"mission. And I came back, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.2,"endTime":951.32,"body":"like, oh, I'm out of the water"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.2,"endTime":951.32,"body":"with this. Like, I've figured"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.32,"endTime":953.78,"body":"all this, it's like, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.32,"endTime":953.78,"body":"see a computer for two years."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":953.78,"endTime":955.88,"body":"Like, that's really what that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":953.78,"endTime":955.88,"body":"meant. But all of a sudden, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":955.88,"endTime":958.79,"body":"felt like I had figured"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":955.88,"endTime":958.79,"body":"everything out. Ended up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":958.79,"endTime":964.37,"body":"relapsing after my mission. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":958.79,"endTime":964.37,"body":"then really began like, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.37,"endTime":968.39,"body":"really work through through that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.37,"endTime":968.39,"body":"after, but I think one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.39,"endTime":972.05,"body":"most helpful things for me in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.39,"endTime":972.05,"body":"letting go of the shame was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":972.08,"endTime":975.56,"body":"realizing that we are all sexual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":972.08,"endTime":975.56,"body":"beings. We don't really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":975.56,"endTime":979.7,"body":"acknowledge that well, within"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":975.56,"endTime":979.7,"body":"the church, often, when it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":979.7,"endTime":983.51,"body":"like, you know, that's just like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":979.7,"endTime":983.51,"body":"a reality, like, we are sexual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":983.51,"endTime":987.29,"body":"beings. And so, when I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":983.51,"endTime":987.29,"body":"curious about pornography as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.29,"endTime":990.71,"body":"little kid, it wasn't because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.29,"endTime":990.71,"body":"was a pervert. It's because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":990.71,"endTime":995.57,"body":"was naturally inclined, like, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":990.71,"endTime":995.57,"body":"are all wired to be curious, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.57,"endTime":998.78,"body":"wonder, to want to seek that out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.57,"endTime":998.78,"body":"to understand sexual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":998.78,"endTime":1002.17,"body":"relationships. And that was like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":998.78,"endTime":1002.17,"body":"such an eye opening moment,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1002.17,"endTime":1005.53,"body":"like, oh, my gosh, I'm not the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1002.17,"endTime":1005.53,"body":"only one who was wondering about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1005.53,"endTime":1008.47,"body":"this stuff. Because like, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1005.53,"endTime":1008.47,"body":"when pornography really became a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1008.47,"endTime":1013.9,"body":"problem for me, it was when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1008.47,"endTime":1013.9,"body":"was way late to figuring out all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1013.9,"endTime":1016.87,"body":"the sex stuff, like my parents"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1013.9,"endTime":1016.87,"body":"didn't really talk to me about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.87,"endTime":1020.38,"body":"it. I was like, always trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.87,"endTime":1020.38,"body":"be a good kid. So whenever kids"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.38,"endTime":1024.1,"body":"started to talk about things, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.38,"endTime":1024.1,"body":"would like, leave the group. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.43,"endTime":1028.06,"body":"then it got to the point where I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.43,"endTime":1028.06,"body":"was playing, and I like, this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.06,"endTime":1031.36,"body":"the real story. And I have my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.06,"endTime":1031.36,"body":"good friends gonna listen to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.36,"endTime":1035.53,"body":"this and think like, oh my gosh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.36,"endTime":1035.53,"body":"it was my fault. I was playing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.53,"endTime":1039.16,"body":"soccer with one of my buddies,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.53,"endTime":1039.16,"body":"and he kicked a ball hit me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1039.16,"endTime":1042.1,"body":"like, right in the groin. I like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1039.16,"endTime":1042.1,"body":"fell down and, and he's like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1042.13,"endTime":1044.92,"body":"oh, you're not gonna have kids"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1042.13,"endTime":1044.92,"body":"anymore? And I didn't say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.92,"endTime":1046.66,"body":"anything. But I want to like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.92,"endTime":1046.66,"body":"what the heck does that have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1046.66,"endTime":1051.79,"body":"do with anything? Like I I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1046.66,"endTime":1051.79,"body":"hadn't yet connected, like, how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1051.85,"endTime":1055.36,"body":"how testicles were part of that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1051.85,"endTime":1055.36,"body":"process. And it was like that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1055.36,"endTime":1058.48,"body":"incident in junior high that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1055.36,"endTime":1058.48,"body":"made me go home be like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1059.74,"endTime":1067.3,"body":"Google sex. And that quickly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1059.74,"endTime":1067.3,"body":"will lead you down a road with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1067.3,"endTime":1070.93,"body":"link after link after link and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1067.3,"endTime":1070.93,"body":"video or image after image,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1072.19,"endTime":1076.06,"body":"creating like this narrative,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1072.19,"endTime":1076.06,"body":"but oft... So there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.06,"endTime":1080.23,"body":"generally a process with how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.06,"endTime":1080.23,"body":"these behaviors develop into a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.23,"endTime":1085.18,"body":"coping mechanism. And in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.23,"endTime":1085.18,"body":"worst cases, an addiction. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1085.18,"endTime":1089.14,"body":"think it's important to note"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1085.18,"endTime":1089.14,"body":"just going into this, like, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1089.14,"endTime":1095.92,"body":"estimated that a less about,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1089.14,"endTime":1095.92,"body":"like nine to 11% of people who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1095.92,"endTime":1099.67,"body":"are struggling to overcome"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1095.92,"endTime":1099.67,"body":"pornography actually would meet"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1099.7,"endTime":1104.53,"body":"criteria to be considered"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1099.7,"endTime":1104.53,"body":"addicts in their behavior. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1104.53,"endTime":1107.92,"body":"vast majority of people who are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1104.53,"endTime":1107.92,"body":"still struggling with it, still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1107.92,"endTime":1110.29,"body":"trying to work through it, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1107.92,"endTime":1110.29,"body":"want to leave it behind or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1110.29,"endTime":1114.88,"body":"whatever they're not, they don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1110.29,"endTime":1114.88,"body":"meet those criteria. But they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1114.88,"endTime":1117.88,"body":"think because they're struggling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1114.88,"endTime":1117.88,"body":"to overcome it or leave it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.88,"endTime":1121.42,"body":"behind they're an addict,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.88,"endTime":1121.42,"body":"because we have this idea that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1121.45,"endTime":1125.95,"body":"addiction just means trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1121.45,"endTime":1125.95,"body":"stop something and not being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1125.95,"endTime":1129.4,"body":"able to easily. But if that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1125.95,"endTime":1129.4,"body":"the definition, we're all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1129.4,"endTime":1133.24,"body":"addicted to about 1000 things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1129.4,"endTime":1133.24,"body":"including eating unhealthily,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1133.3,"endTime":1136.78,"body":"exercise, poor habits and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1133.3,"endTime":1136.78,"body":"everything. So again, there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1136.78,"endTime":1139.6,"body":"difference between a poor habit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1136.78,"endTime":1139.6,"body":"which is a behavioral thing we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.6,"endTime":1144.19,"body":"develop, and an addiction. There"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.6,"endTime":1144.19,"body":"are several other factors that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1144.19,"endTime":1147.97,"body":"go into what makes someone an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1144.19,"endTime":1147.97,"body":"addict beyond having a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1148.51,"endTime":1152.53,"body":"prob--like having a continuous"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1148.51,"endTime":1152.53,"body":"problem. It starts, like they it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1152.53,"endTime":1157.96,"body":"gets, increases in frequency, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1152.53,"endTime":1157.96,"body":"intensity over time. It starts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1157.96,"endTime":1160.6,"body":"to impact their ability to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1157.96,"endTime":1160.6,"body":"function in everyday life. They"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1160.6,"endTime":1163.99,"body":"start to socially isolate. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1160.6,"endTime":1163.99,"body":"there are all these other things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.99,"endTime":1167.62,"body":"that also get packed into that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.99,"endTime":1167.62,"body":"But when we use addiction to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1167.62,"endTime":1172.87,"body":"talk about both of these cases,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1167.62,"endTime":1172.87,"body":"it does a disservice to the vast"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1172.87,"endTime":1176.56,"body":"majority of people who don't fit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1172.87,"endTime":1176.56,"body":"into that and often don't seek"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1176.56,"endTime":1182.08,"body":"out help because they may think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1176.56,"endTime":1182.08,"body":"that's not me. So maybe I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1182.08,"endTime":1186.16,"body":"need help because I I haven't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1182.08,"endTime":1186.16,"body":"killed 50 people like Ted Bundy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1186.16,"endTime":1189.67,"body":"did. And I think that affects"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1186.16,"endTime":1189.67,"body":"the narrative too, about being a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1189.67,"endTime":1193.99,"body":"good or bad person when every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1189.67,"endTime":1193.99,"body":"six months that Ted Bundy video"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1193.99,"endTime":1195.04,"body":"makes the rounds."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1195.62,"endTime":1196.97,"body":"Well, what did Ted Bundy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1195.62,"endTime":1196.97,"body":"say?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1197.29,"endTime":1202.6,"body":"Yeah, Ted Bundy in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1197.29,"endTime":1202.6,"body":"testimony He blamed the fact"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1202.6,"endTime":1206.35,"body":"that he was a serial rapist and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1202.6,"endTime":1206.35,"body":"murderer on the fact he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1206.35,"endTime":1210.43,"body":"exposed to pornography at a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1206.35,"endTime":1210.43,"body":"young age. And so he tried to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1210.43,"endTime":1214.09,"body":"blame it on pornography, but we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1210.43,"endTime":1214.09,"body":"have to recognize that Ted Bundy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.09,"endTime":1219.43,"body":"is a sociopath. And like, never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.09,"endTime":1219.43,"body":"was able to accept fault for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1219.43,"endTime":1222.55,"body":"what he did. It was his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1219.43,"endTime":1222.55,"body":"teacher's fault, his mom's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1222.55,"endTime":1226.57,"body":"fault, the pornography, so it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1222.55,"endTime":1226.57,"body":"was everybody's fault but his."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.6,"endTime":1229.63,"body":"Like, like, we should not be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.6,"endTime":1229.63,"body":"getting our information on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.63,"endTime":1232.84,"body":"pornography from a sociopath is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.63,"endTime":1232.84,"body":"what you're saying."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.0,"endTime":1245.83,"body":"No, you're good. I have just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.0,"endTime":1245.83,"body":"quick thought. On a less maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.55,"endTime":1236.24,"body":"No. I think because within the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.55,"endTime":1236.24,"body":"church, we believe that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1236.24,"endTime":1239.69,"body":"pornography is harmful to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1236.24,"endTime":1239.69,"body":"people, we we like the ideas of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1239.72,"endTime":1244.25,"body":"evidence that affirms that. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1239.72,"endTime":1244.25,"body":"so again, about every six months"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1244.25,"endTime":1247.01,"body":"that video pops up that makes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1244.25,"endTime":1247.01,"body":"the rounds, at least on my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.83,"endTime":1257.92,"body":"dramatic note, I know a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.83,"endTime":1257.92,"body":"people who are like, well, if a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1247.01,"endTime":1250.34,"body":"Facebook and ends up leading to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1247.01,"endTime":1250.34,"body":"these long conversations with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1250.34,"endTime":1255.29,"body":"people about Ted Bundy is not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1250.34,"endTime":1255.29,"body":"the norm. Like, just because his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.29,"endTime":1259.91,"body":"sexual experience maybe began"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.29,"endTime":1259.91,"body":"with pornography. That doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.04,"endTime":1283.03,"body":"partner is viewing pornography,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.04,"endTime":1283.03,"body":"the relationship will end up in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1259.91,"endTime":1264.38,"body":"mean that's what caught like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1259.91,"endTime":1264.38,"body":"being candid and a bit morbid"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1264.38,"endTime":1268.04,"body":"ike if pornography turned every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1264.38,"endTime":1268.04,"body":"uy into a Ted Bundy there would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.04,"endTime":1272.03,"body":"e no women left. Again, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.04,"endTime":1272.03,"body":"orry, this is probably getting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1272.03,"endTime":1273.26,"body":"oo morbid now. But."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":1281.37,"endTime":1281.49,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":1283.03,"endTime":1285.43,"body":"divorce. And well, in some"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":1283.03,"endTime":1285.43,"body":"cases, that might be true, I"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":1285.43,"endTime":1288.22,"body":"feel like it's a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":1285.43,"endTime":1288.22,"body":"nuanced than that there are so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1287.91,"endTime":1311.64,"body":"So I think sometimes,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1287.91,"endTime":1311.64,"body":"and I'm not saying that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1288.22,"endTime":1290.77,"body":"many relationships that have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1288.22,"endTime":1290.77,"body":"pornography involved at one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1290.77,"endTime":1293.74,"body":"point or another, that have not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1290.77,"endTime":1293.74,"body":"been ruined, that have not ended"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1293.74,"endTime":1297.82,"body":"in divorce. In fact, like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1293.74,"endTime":1297.82,"body":"would say, a majority of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1297.82,"endTime":1301.12,"body":"relationships have had some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1297.82,"endTime":1301.12,"body":"access or one partner or the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1301.12,"endTime":1304.9,"body":"other viewing pornography at one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1301.12,"endTime":1304.9,"body":"point during the relationship."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1305.23,"endTime":1309.94,"body":"And that's not like the cause of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1305.23,"endTime":1309.94,"body":"divorce."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1311.64,"endTime":1314.64,"body":"pornography is a good thing. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1311.64,"endTime":1314.64,"body":"we should just be like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1314.64,"endTime":1317.1,"body":"yeah, free love, do whatever you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1314.64,"endTime":1317.1,"body":"want. I think there are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1317.1,"endTime":1320.73,"body":"definitely like, ways that it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1317.1,"endTime":1320.73,"body":"harmful. But I think if we tried"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1320.73,"endTime":1325.11,"body":"to demonize it so much, in order"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1320.73,"endTime":1325.11,"body":"for people to never go there,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1325.26,"endTime":1328.53,"body":"then the people who do go there,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1325.26,"endTime":1328.53,"body":"which as you said Liam, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1328.53,"endTime":1332.52,"body":"statistics show that 85% of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1328.53,"endTime":1332.52,"body":"people, that now we have 85% of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1332.52,"endTime":1334.92,"body":"people who think they are a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1332.52,"endTime":1334.92,"body":"disgusting person who is going"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1334.92,"endTime":1338.7,"body":"to be a murderer and end in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1334.92,"endTime":1338.7,"body":"inevitable divorce. And that is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1338.7,"endTime":1341.79,"body":"so much pressure to put on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1338.7,"endTime":1341.79,"body":"someone that's doing a pretty"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1341.79,"endTime":1342.63,"body":"natural thing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1343.14,"endTime":1345.81,"body":"Yes, that's I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1343.14,"endTime":1345.81,"body":"part of the problem. One reason"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1345.81,"endTime":1348.96,"body":"why I think it's more important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1345.81,"endTime":1348.96,"body":"for us to be open about even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.96,"endTime":1353.61,"body":"personal experience with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.96,"endTime":1353.61,"body":"pornography, is because the only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1353.61,"endTime":1358.11,"body":"narratives that ever are shared"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1353.61,"endTime":1358.11,"body":"are the bad ones. Like where it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1358.11,"endTime":1361.41,"body":"did lead to divorce, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1358.11,"endTime":1361.41,"body":"infidelity, or pedophilia, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1361.41,"endTime":1364.08,"body":"all these other things where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1361.41,"endTime":1364.08,"body":"it's like, oh, well, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1364.11,"endTime":1366.96,"body":"you find out someone's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1364.11,"endTime":1366.96,"body":"pedophile and then inevitably,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1366.96,"endTime":1370.11,"body":"someone's like, oh, well, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1366.96,"endTime":1370.11,"body":"started with pornography or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.11,"endTime":1373.17,"body":"like, same thing with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.11,"endTime":1373.17,"body":"infidelity. Like, so many people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.17,"endTime":1376.83,"body":"want to make pornography, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.17,"endTime":1376.83,"body":"thing of blame. It's like, no,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1376.83,"endTime":1379.95,"body":"because for every one guy that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1376.83,"endTime":1379.95,"body":"cheated on his wife, there are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1379.95,"endTime":1384.12,"body":"300 men in Elders Quorum, who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1379.95,"endTime":1384.12,"body":"are trying to figure this out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.12,"endTime":1387.54,"body":"whether with their partner or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.12,"endTime":1387.54,"body":"not, maybe they're afraid, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1387.6,"endTime":1391.23,"body":"at least they're not cheating."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1387.6,"endTime":1391.23,"body":"They're, they're trying to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.23,"endTime":1396.63,"body":"good. They're trying to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.23,"endTime":1396.63,"body":"faithful, while working through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1396.63,"endTime":1397.2,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.93,"endTime":1400.66,"body":"Yeah, I had a I had a client"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.93,"endTime":1400.66,"body":"once who I actually had a number"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1400.66,"endTime":1403.36,"body":"of clients who came in to talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1400.66,"endTime":1403.36,"body":"about pornography issues. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.66,"endTime":1406.06,"body":"and oftentimes, they would say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.66,"endTime":1406.06,"body":"things like, you know, I'm here"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1406.24,"endTime":1408.85,"body":"in therapy, because I'm addicted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1406.24,"endTime":1408.85,"body":"to pornography. And they would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1408.85,"endTime":1411.04,"body":"say, I'd ask them, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1408.85,"endTime":1411.04,"body":"talked about their viewing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1411.04,"endTime":1413.29,"body":"habits, and they would say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1411.04,"endTime":1413.29,"body":"like, they looked at pornography"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1413.32,"endTime":1417.31,"body":"once a month. And you know, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1413.32,"endTime":1417.31,"body":"that's not a lot, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.34,"endTime":1420.43,"body":"the criteria you gave for, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1417.34,"endTime":1420.43,"body":"addiction, Liam that does not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.43,"endTime":1423.07,"body":"fit into that. But you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.43,"endTime":1423.07,"body":"still it was it was unwanted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1423.07,"endTime":1425.35,"body":"use. And I and I had this one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1423.07,"endTime":1425.35,"body":"client share this really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.35,"endTime":1428.17,"body":"beautiful story about how he and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.35,"endTime":1428.17,"body":"his wife had worked out that if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1428.17,"endTime":1430.06,"body":"you ever looked at pornography,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1428.17,"endTime":1430.06,"body":"that he would tell her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.06,"endTime":1433.54,"body":"immediately or if he was tempted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.06,"endTime":1433.54,"body":"to to talk to her about it. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.57,"endTime":1435.97,"body":"the very first time he told his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.57,"endTime":1435.97,"body":"wife that he had been looking at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1435.97,"endTime":1439.48,"body":"pornography, and it was gay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1435.97,"endTime":1439.48,"body":"pornography, her response was, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1439.48,"endTime":1442.51,"body":"am so sorry that you are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1439.48,"endTime":1442.51,"body":"hurting. I thought that was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1442.51,"endTime":1444.88,"body":"really beautiful way to you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1442.51,"endTime":1444.88,"body":"know, like Charlie was saying,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1444.94,"endTime":1449.02,"body":"you know, when someone's looking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1444.94,"endTime":1449.02,"body":"for ways to cope with the that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.02,"endTime":1452.08,"body":"BLAST acronym, what is going on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.02,"endTime":1452.08,"body":"in someone's life? And what can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1452.08,"endTime":1454.99,"body":"we do to be with them if they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1452.08,"endTime":1454.99,"body":"if they're dealing with with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1454.99,"endTime":1458.74,"body":"stress, or boredom or loneliness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1454.99,"endTime":1458.74,"body":"or anxiety in ways that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1458.77,"endTime":1459.67,"body":"don't want to?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1459.93,"endTime":1462.06,"body":"Ben I love that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1459.93,"endTime":1462.06,"body":"distinction you made between"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1462.18,"endTime":1465.84,"body":"unwanted use and addiction. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1462.18,"endTime":1465.84,"body":"I think that's so important. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1465.84,"endTime":1469.29,"body":"it's a distinction that, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1465.84,"endTime":1469.29,"body":"everyone should be making. I had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1469.29,"endTime":1473.28,"body":"a conversation with my friend"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1469.29,"endTime":1473.28,"body":"once and he he told me that he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1473.28,"endTime":1477.0,"body":"had been really struggling and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1473.28,"endTime":1477.0,"body":"was addicted to pornography. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1477.0,"endTime":1480.12,"body":"we had I talked to him about it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1477.0,"endTime":1480.12,"body":"for a while. And then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1480.12,"endTime":1482.97,"body":"afterwards, I was like, hey, do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1480.12,"endTime":1482.97,"body":"you feel comfortable like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1482.97,"endTime":1486.0,"body":"sharing how often you view view"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1482.97,"endTime":1486.0,"body":"pornography, and he's like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1487.77,"endTime":1491.37,"body":"like, sometimes every three"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1487.77,"endTime":1491.37,"body":"months, but during finals week,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1491.37,"endTime":1495.54,"body":"I did it every day. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1491.37,"endTime":1495.54,"body":"like, you're not addicted. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1495.69,"endTime":1499.5,"body":"you were really stressed for a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1495.69,"endTime":1499.5,"body":"week and sometimes you're tired."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1500.16,"endTime":1504.57,"body":"You know, and so and, and like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1500.16,"endTime":1504.57,"body":"actually calculated how much of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1504.57,"endTime":1506.85,"body":"the year he spent viewing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1504.57,"endTime":1506.85,"body":"pornography. And it was like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1506.85,"endTime":1513.06,"body":"0.00002% of his life was spent."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1506.85,"endTime":1513.06,"body":"But he was he was putting so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1513.06,"endTime":1517.92,"body":"much focus and emphasis on on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1513.06,"endTime":1517.92,"body":"these 10 to 20 minute periods"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1517.92,"endTime":1519.9,"body":"where he was doing something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1517.92,"endTime":1519.9,"body":"that didn't align with his"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1519.9,"endTime":1524.43,"body":"values. And he was putting so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1519.9,"endTime":1524.43,"body":"much mental force into that tiny"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1524.43,"endTime":1528.54,"body":"amount of time that it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1524.43,"endTime":1528.54,"body":"consuming his entire life. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1528.54,"endTime":1532.47,"body":"he convinced himself that he was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1528.54,"endTime":1532.47,"body":"a bad person. As I think back on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1532.47,"endTime":1535.92,"body":"my own experiences, the times"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1532.47,"endTime":1535.92,"body":"when I've, like, for lack of a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1535.92,"endTime":1539.07,"body":"better term felt like I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1535.92,"endTime":1539.07,"body":"struggling with pornography. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1539.07,"endTime":1542.22,"body":"again, it was like, it was like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1539.07,"endTime":1542.22,"body":"similar, because I was feeling"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1542.22,"endTime":1545.49,"body":"incredibly stressed and anxious"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1542.22,"endTime":1545.49,"body":"and depressed. And as soon as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1545.49,"endTime":1547.62,"body":"those needs were met, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1545.49,"endTime":1547.62,"body":"even think about it. And it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1547.62,"endTime":1550.47,"body":"wasn't even a thing. It wasn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1547.62,"endTime":1550.47,"body":"even on my register."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1550.56,"endTime":1553.29,"body":"And Charlie, not to cut you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1550.56,"endTime":1553.29,"body":"off but I think what you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1553.29,"endTime":1555.42,"body":"saying now, which is so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1553.29,"endTime":1555.42,"body":"important is if someone is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1555.42,"endTime":1558.33,"body":"struggling internally with their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1555.42,"endTime":1558.33,"body":"sexual orientation, and they are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1558.33,"endTime":1562.41,"body":"stressed, and anxious and hating"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1558.33,"endTime":1562.41,"body":"who they are, and wanting to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1562.41,"endTime":1566.13,"body":"change and not talking to anyone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1562.41,"endTime":1566.13,"body":"about that that is a recipe for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1566.13,"endTime":1568.95,"body":"looking at pornography, which is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1566.13,"endTime":1568.95,"body":"just going to make those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1568.95,"endTime":1570.3,"body":"feelings increase."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.75,"endTime":1573.3,"body":"Definitely, exactly."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.75,"endTime":1573.3,"body":"Thank you. And that's where the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.3,"endTime":1576.3,"body":"spiral starts. And, and like we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.3,"endTime":1576.3,"body":"said at the beginning, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1576.36,"endTime":1579.57,"body":"pornography is one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1576.36,"endTime":1579.57,"body":"easiest ways to explore sexual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1579.57,"endTime":1582.0,"body":"feelings without anybody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1579.57,"endTime":1582.0,"body":"knowing. So when you add the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1582.0,"endTime":1585.57,"body":"element of I can't tell anyone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1582.0,"endTime":1585.57,"body":"that I'm gay, we might as well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1585.57,"endTime":1589.05,"body":"double the batch, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1585.57,"endTime":1589.05,"body":"recipe gets even bigger. Another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1589.05,"endTime":1592.47,"body":"thing that I often see and have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1589.05,"endTime":1592.47,"body":"looked into a little bit is this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1592.47,"endTime":1595.23,"body":"idea of like, basically, what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1592.47,"endTime":1595.23,"body":"on your mind, like I said, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1595.23,"endTime":1599.25,"body":"friend was was focusing so much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1595.23,"endTime":1599.25,"body":"on pornography. The way the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1599.25,"endTime":1601.38,"body":"brain works and Liam, you'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1599.25,"endTime":1601.38,"body":"know more about this than I do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.95,"endTime":1607.41,"body":"so maybe you can kind of back me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.95,"endTime":1607.41,"body":"up or tell me I'm wrong. But if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.41,"endTime":1610.59,"body":"you're thinking, I'm addicted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.41,"endTime":1610.59,"body":"porn, don't look at porn. Don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.59,"endTime":1613.71,"body":"look at porn. Don't look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.59,"endTime":1613.71,"body":"porn. The brain is reading that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.71,"endTime":1617.4,"body":"as porn, porn, porn. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.71,"endTime":1617.4,"body":"you're going to be more likely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.49,"endTime":1620.52,"body":"to look at porn, because so much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.49,"endTime":1620.52,"body":"of your like, mindset and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1620.52,"endTime":1623.07,"body":"chemistry is focused on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1620.52,"endTime":1623.07,"body":"pornography."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":1623.52,"endTime":1625.26,"body":"Yeah, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":1623.52,"endTime":1625.26,"body":"accurate."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1625.32,"endTime":1629.13,"body":"Well, and then so the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1625.32,"endTime":1629.13,"body":"way to, I guess defeat that if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1629.13,"endTime":1632.91,"body":"you are experiencing unwanted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1629.13,"endTime":1632.91,"body":"pornography in your life, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1632.91,"endTime":1635.55,"body":"just have to, like, don't give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1632.91,"endTime":1635.55,"body":"it so much power. Like, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1635.55,"endTime":1638.79,"body":"are giving so much power and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1635.55,"endTime":1638.79,"body":"saying pornography is ruining"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1638.79,"endTime":1641.58,"body":"me, it's going to ruin you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1638.79,"endTime":1641.58,"body":"Like, because that's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1641.58,"endTime":1644.25,"body":"trajectory you're putting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1641.58,"endTime":1644.25,"body":"yourself on. Like, like mentally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1644.25,"endTime":1646.86,"body":"that's so much stress. How much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1644.25,"endTime":1646.86,"body":"healthier would it be if the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1646.86,"endTime":1650.22,"body":"reaction was, this is a decision"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1646.86,"endTime":1650.22,"body":"I made that doesn't align with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1650.22,"endTime":1654.18,"body":"my values and it may be because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1650.22,"endTime":1654.18,"body":"I was lonely, or tired or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1654.18,"endTime":1657.03,"body":"hungry, I'm gonna move on from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1654.18,"endTime":1657.03,"body":"this because I realized that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1657.03,"endTime":1660.45,"body":"that's not really adding value"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1657.03,"endTime":1660.45,"body":"to my life? Then all of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1660.45,"endTime":1664.02,"body":"feelings like these, these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1660.45,"endTime":1664.02,"body":"adversary-driven feelings of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1664.02,"endTime":1668.22,"body":"shame and darkness, you're just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1664.02,"endTime":1668.22,"body":"like, removing them from the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1668.22,"endTime":1672.72,"body":"picture and how much more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1668.22,"endTime":1672.72,"body":"clearer can, can you see if all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1672.72,"endTime":1674.19,"body":"of that mess is gone? You know?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1674.33,"endTime":1679.67,"body":"Yeah, I love I love the way you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1674.33,"endTime":1679.67,"body":"said that. You know, I think we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1679.73,"endTime":1684.02,"body":"within the church give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1679.73,"endTime":1684.02,"body":"pornography more power than,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.08,"endTime":1689.0,"body":"than most things, by the fear we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1684.08,"endTime":1689.0,"body":"even have about talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1689.0,"endTime":1693.05,"body":"it. Like even and and that could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1689.0,"endTime":1693.05,"body":"even be applied a little more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1693.05,"endTime":1697.19,"body":"broadly to talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1693.05,"endTime":1697.19,"body":"sexuality, but we don't like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1697.19,"endTime":1700.97,"body":"having to talk about pornography"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1697.19,"endTime":1700.97,"body":"in church. And by by we it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1700.97,"endTime":1705.23,"body":"like, it can be a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1700.97,"endTime":1705.23,"body":"uncomfortable conversation. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1705.23,"endTime":1710.33,"body":"so often it is. This is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1705.23,"endTime":1710.33,"body":"something it took me a long time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1710.33,"endTime":1712.91,"body":"to think about because this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1710.33,"endTime":1712.91,"body":"wasn't something that I had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1712.91,"endTime":1717.02,"body":"calculated. But when I started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1712.91,"endTime":1717.02,"body":"researching pornography, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1717.02,"endTime":1719.66,"body":"reason I started like talking to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1717.02,"endTime":1719.66,"body":"other people about it, I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1719.66,"endTime":1723.41,"body":"researching it and then I was in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1719.66,"endTime":1723.41,"body":"a singles ward of BYU, one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1723.41,"endTime":1727.31,"body":"the friends from my ward brought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1723.41,"endTime":1727.31,"body":"a female friend from our Ward"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1727.31,"endTime":1731.3,"body":"over she was also my friend, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1727.31,"endTime":1731.3,"body":"I had a friend Zack who brought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.72,"endTime":1735.23,"body":"a friend over he's like, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.72,"endTime":1735.23,"body":"you need to talk to her. I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1735.23,"endTime":1738.62,"body":"like, oh, it was like 11 o'clock"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1735.23,"endTime":1738.62,"body":"at night. And I was already in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.62,"endTime":1742.01,"body":"bed, probably. But he I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1738.62,"endTime":1742.01,"body":"well, what are we what do we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1742.01,"endTime":1744.8,"body":"need to talk about? He's like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1742.01,"endTime":1744.8,"body":"like, you need to talk to her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1744.8,"endTime":1747.56,"body":"about pornography. I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1744.8,"endTime":1747.56,"body":"this is a weird time for this to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1747.56,"endTime":1751.04,"body":"be happening but so she likes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1747.56,"endTime":1751.04,"body":"this guy in the world who is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1751.04,"endTime":1757.37,"body":"dating someone else. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1751.04,"endTime":1757.37,"body":"Provo for you. But so but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1757.37,"endTime":1760.7,"body":"eventually he stopped dating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1757.37,"endTime":1760.7,"body":"this other girl. And so she got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1760.7,"endTime":1765.38,"body":"excited. And they went on a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1760.7,"endTime":1765.38,"body":"couple dates. Then this boy's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.8,"endTime":1770.03,"body":"ex-girlfriend reached out to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.8,"endTime":1770.03,"body":"girl in my ward and said, hey,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.03,"endTime":1775.01,"body":"he has a pornography problem."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.03,"endTime":1775.01,"body":"And that scared this friend of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1775.01,"endTime":1778.25,"body":"mine. And so she's like, oh, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1775.01,"endTime":1778.25,"body":"don't think I can date him. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1778.25,"endTime":1780.65,"body":"she said this to my friend Zack"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1778.25,"endTime":1780.65,"body":"in our Ward, who then brought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1780.65,"endTime":1783.05,"body":"her over to my apartment to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1780.65,"endTime":1783.05,"body":"like, let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1783.05,"endTime":1787.16,"body":"pornography in dating and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1783.05,"endTime":1787.16,"body":"church and all this stuff. We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1787.16,"endTime":1791.69,"body":"talked for like three hours. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1787.16,"endTime":1791.69,"body":"I was shocked at like, how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1791.69,"endTime":1794.72,"body":"little she knew and I knew I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1791.69,"endTime":1794.72,"body":"researching pornography at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1794.72,"endTime":1797.93,"body":"point, but it's like, even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1794.72,"endTime":1797.93,"body":"before I started researching, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.93,"endTime":1804.17,"body":"felt she had very, very gross"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1797.93,"endTime":1804.17,"body":"misunderstanding about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1804.17,"endTime":1807.95,"body":"pornography and how it worked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1804.17,"endTime":1807.95,"body":"even at the most basic level."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1808.28,"endTime":1812.39,"body":"She was in the ward young,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1808.28,"endTime":1812.39,"body":"Relief Society presidency. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.39,"endTime":1815.06,"body":"after our three-hour chat, she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.39,"endTime":1815.06,"body":"was like, I think you need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.06,"endTime":1818.48,"body":"come talk. And at the end of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1815.06,"endTime":1818.48,"body":"three hour conversation, she's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1818.48,"endTime":1821.69,"body":"like, this has been so helpful."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1818.48,"endTime":1821.69,"body":"She's like, I at least feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1822.11,"endTime":1825.62,"body":"comfortable, like continuing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1822.11,"endTime":1825.62,"body":"today and eventually having that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1825.62,"endTime":1830.33,"body":"conversation, when he's ready,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1825.62,"endTime":1830.33,"body":"and when we're ready to have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1830.33,"endTime":1834.23,"body":"that conversation if it gets to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1830.33,"endTime":1834.23,"body":"that point. But she then invited"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1834.23,"endTime":1837.35,"body":"me to the Relief Society. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1834.23,"endTime":1837.35,"body":"then I presented for the Relief"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1837.35,"endTime":1840.17,"body":"Society. And then the semester"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1837.35,"endTime":1840.17,"body":"ended a few weeks later, so they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.17,"endTime":1842.84,"body":"all move to different wards,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.17,"endTime":1842.84,"body":"then they told their Bishops"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1843.02,"endTime":1846.17,"body":"that I should come and that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1843.02,"endTime":1846.17,"body":"honestly, it was all word of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1846.17,"endTime":1846.35,"body":"mouth."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1846.35,"endTime":1847.07,"body":"And so it began."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.66,"endTime":1852.37,"body":"And so it began. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.66,"endTime":1852.37,"body":"what was interesting was, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1852.37,"endTime":1855.52,"body":"asked, after a while, I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1852.37,"endTime":1855.52,"body":"like, why do people keep asking,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.52,"endTime":1857.8,"body":"like, there are other people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.52,"endTime":1857.8,"body":"talking about pornography. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1857.8,"endTime":1860.23,"body":"mean, there's like, Fight the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1857.8,"endTime":1860.23,"body":"New Drug and everything, since"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1860.23,"endTime":1863.53,"body":"like, there are more established"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1860.23,"endTime":1863.53,"body":"organizations talk, why do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1863.53,"endTime":1866.89,"body":"people keep asking me to talk,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1863.53,"endTime":1866.89,"body":"and I reached out to a few of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1866.89,"endTime":1870.64,"body":"the Bishops and all of them were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1866.89,"endTime":1870.64,"body":"like, when you talk about it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1870.64,"endTime":1875.5,"body":"like, our members smile. They"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1870.64,"endTime":1875.5,"body":"can laugh, through through like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1875.5,"endTime":1878.29,"body":"we'd have like a thought we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1875.5,"endTime":1878.29,"body":"started just doing firesides."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1879.13,"endTime":1882.04,"body":"And we would smile, and we would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1879.13,"endTime":1882.04,"body":"laugh. And then the but there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1882.04,"endTime":1884.74,"body":"were also like, harder moments"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1882.04,"endTime":1884.74,"body":"where you're sharing, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1884.77,"endTime":1890.02,"body":"harder things. But it was very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1884.77,"endTime":1890.02,"body":"real and raw, but it was also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1890.2,"endTime":1894.85,"body":"based in hope, and joy and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1890.2,"endTime":1894.85,"body":"peace, like, and I think that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.85,"endTime":1898.75,"body":"one of the problems when we give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.85,"endTime":1898.75,"body":"pornography so much power,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.75,"endTime":1903.31,"body":"because we make it larger than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.75,"endTime":1903.31,"body":"the atonement. We eclipse the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1903.31,"endTime":1907.42,"body":"atonement with this scary thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1903.31,"endTime":1907.42,"body":"we call pornography. I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1907.42,"endTime":1911.23,"body":"talking to a church leader who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1907.42,"endTime":1911.23,"body":"was counseling other people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1911.23,"endTime":1915.37,"body":"about pornography at this point,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1911.23,"endTime":1915.37,"body":"say, I don't I don't think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1915.49,"endTime":1918.64,"body":"people can really work through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1915.49,"endTime":1918.64,"body":"pornography. And I was like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1918.64,"endTime":1921.49,"body":"wait, what?!? He's like, once,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1918.64,"endTime":1921.49,"body":"once you're addicted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.49,"endTime":1924.37,"body":"pornography, you don't get over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.49,"endTime":1924.37,"body":"it. He's like, I think you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1924.37,"endTime":1927.19,"body":"with other things. I don't think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1924.37,"endTime":1927.19,"body":"you can with pornography. And it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1927.19,"endTime":1930.76,"body":"was mind-blowing to me. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1927.19,"endTime":1930.76,"body":"like, you you think the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1930.76,"endTime":1935.2,"body":"atonement stops, like at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1930.76,"endTime":1935.2,"body":"pornography, like it draws a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1935.2,"endTime":1939.37,"body":"line. And it's like, this is one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1935.2,"endTime":1939.37,"body":"hurdle, that if you stepped"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1939.37,"endTime":1943.0,"body":"across the line, you're never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1939.37,"endTime":1943.0,"body":"going to get all the way back."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1943.84,"endTime":1946.93,"body":"And it was it was fascinating to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1943.84,"endTime":1946.93,"body":"me that this was someone who's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.05,"endTime":1951.31,"body":"counseling the youth in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.05,"endTime":1951.31,"body":"church, many of whom have this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1951.31,"endTime":1953.89,"body":"problem. And it's like, how is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1951.31,"endTime":1953.89,"body":"he having this conversation with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1953.89,"endTime":1958.15,"body":"these people? But so I think,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1953.89,"endTime":1958.15,"body":"and I realized, the reason why I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1958.15,"endTime":1960.4,"body":"ended up with so many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1958.15,"endTime":1960.4,"body":"opportunities to talk about this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.4,"endTime":1963.49,"body":"was because when we started, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.4,"endTime":1963.49,"body":"was smiling. I was like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1963.49,"endTime":1966.01,"body":"we're gonna talk about a hard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1963.49,"endTime":1966.01,"body":"thing. But the reason I love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.01,"endTime":1969.1,"body":"talking about this is because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.01,"endTime":1969.1,"body":"regardless of where you are,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.31,"endTime":1972.52,"body":"regardless of the orientation,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.31,"endTime":1972.52,"body":"the type of content, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.52,"endTime":1976.6,"body":"looking at how frequently like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.52,"endTime":1976.6,"body":"there is hope for what what you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1976.6,"endTime":1980.26,"body":"want, you can achieve. Like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1976.6,"endTime":1980.26,"body":"can have peace. You can have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1980.26,"endTime":1983.86,"body":"healing. You can have all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1980.26,"endTime":1983.86,"body":"these things. And that starts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1983.86,"endTime":1987.91,"body":"with stop beating yourself up."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1983.86,"endTime":1987.91,"body":"Realize that maybe you can't do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.91,"endTime":1992.17,"body":"this on your own. Maybe you need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.91,"endTime":1992.17,"body":"a community. You need to talk to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1992.17,"endTime":1995.17,"body":"people. You can't do this in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1992.17,"endTime":1995.17,"body":"isolation, because that's what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1995.17,"endTime":1999.52,"body":"keeps getting you back to square"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1995.17,"endTime":1999.52,"body":"one. Just the way we talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1999.52,"endTime":2003.9,"body":"it has so much power in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1999.52,"endTime":2003.9,"body":"church, and we do so often give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.9,"endTime":2006.18,"body":"it so much more power than it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.9,"endTime":2006.18,"body":"deserves."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2006.63,"endTime":2009.39,"body":"Yeah, well, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2006.63,"endTime":2009.39,"body":"a lot of times when, when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2009.39,"endTime":2013.05,"body":"thinking about pornography, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2009.39,"endTime":2013.05,"body":"think, well, those are the times"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2013.05,"endTime":2015.69,"body":"I looked at pornography, and we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2013.05,"endTime":2015.69,"body":"don't think those are the times"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2015.69,"endTime":2018.75,"body":"I didn't look at pornography."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2015.69,"endTime":2018.75,"body":"You know, like, like the way we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2018.75,"endTime":2023.49,"body":"view it is in the glass, half"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2018.75,"endTime":2023.49,"body":"empty type of mindset. And like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2023.49,"endTime":2025.41,"body":"we were saying, people don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2023.49,"endTime":2025.41,"body":"want to talk about this. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2025.41,"endTime":2027.9,"body":"like, I can't believe no one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2025.41,"endTime":2027.9,"body":"wants to talk about this. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2027.9,"endTime":2030.18,"body":"then me like, I didn't want to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2027.9,"endTime":2030.18,"body":"talk about this, like I didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2030.18,"endTime":2033.09,"body":"want to share about what I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2030.18,"endTime":2033.09,"body":"throwing up on the floor because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2033.09,"endTime":2036.18,"body":"I looked at pornography, right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2033.09,"endTime":2036.18,"body":"Like, even me, I feel like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2036.18,"endTime":2038.31,"body":"have to check myself and be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2036.18,"endTime":2038.31,"body":"like, you know what, no, like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2038.31,"endTime":2043.05,"body":"can say things. And I'm still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2038.31,"endTime":2043.05,"body":"worthy. I'm still good enough as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2043.05,"endTime":2046.2,"body":"a person. And I'm not like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2043.05,"endTime":2046.2,"body":"scarred or marred societaly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2046.23,"endTime":2049.5,"body":"because I have viewed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2046.23,"endTime":2049.5,"body":"pornography in the past, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2049.5,"endTime":2052.56,"body":"that I might in the future"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2049.5,"endTime":2052.56,"body":"right? One thing along the lines"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2052.56,"endTime":2054.93,"body":"of taking a more hope-filled"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2052.56,"endTime":2054.93,"body":"approach I was thinking about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2055.44,"endTime":2058.35,"body":"this period, like before my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2055.44,"endTime":2058.35,"body":"mission and through my mission."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2058.35,"endTime":2060.72,"body":"And when I came home from my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2058.35,"endTime":2060.72,"body":"mission, I didn't look at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2060.72,"endTime":2064.41,"body":"pornography at all. And this was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2060.72,"endTime":2064.41,"body":"like a four year period where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2064.44,"endTime":2068.88,"body":"there had been no issues like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2064.44,"endTime":2068.88,"body":"whatsoever. And then I had what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2068.88,"endTime":2072.12,"body":"I called I referred to as a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2068.88,"endTime":2072.12,"body":"relapse. And this came at a time"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2072.12,"endTime":2075.33,"body":"when I was incredibly stressed."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2072.12,"endTime":2075.33,"body":"I had just broken up with a girl"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2075.33,"endTime":2078.12,"body":"because I realized I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2075.33,"endTime":2078.12,"body":"actually gay. I was like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2078.12,"endTime":2081.81,"body":"becoming clinically depressed. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2078.12,"endTime":2081.81,"body":"was in a terrible place, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2081.81,"endTime":2085.08,"body":"feeling incredibly like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2081.81,"endTime":2085.08,"body":"overwhelmed with my life. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2085.08,"endTime":2088.26,"body":"started looking at pornography"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2085.08,"endTime":2088.26,"body":"as a coping mechanism as I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2088.26,"endTime":2091.8,"body":"doing like my senior year in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2088.26,"endTime":2091.8,"body":"high school, when I was feeling"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2091.83,"endTime":2094.23,"body":"nervous about going on my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2091.83,"endTime":2094.23,"body":"mission because I was gay. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2094.29,"endTime":2097.59,"body":"when things were heavy that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2094.29,"endTime":2097.59,"body":"what I was going for. And the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2097.59,"endTime":2102.36,"body":"first time I quote unquote"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2097.59,"endTime":2102.36,"body":"relapsed my mindset was, oh my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2102.36,"endTime":2106.47,"body":"gosh, all those four years were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2102.36,"endTime":2106.47,"body":"wasted. And I'm exactly back"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2106.47,"endTime":2109.38,"body":"where I was before my mission."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2106.47,"endTime":2109.38,"body":"And nothing ever changed. And my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2109.38,"endTime":2112.35,"body":"mission didn't even matter. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2109.38,"endTime":2112.35,"body":"I entertained thoughts like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2112.35,"endTime":2116.43,"body":"that. That's terrible. Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2112.35,"endTime":2116.43,"body":"like, what, why I got to do that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2116.43,"endTime":2120.51,"body":"to myself, you know? It was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2116.43,"endTime":2120.51,"body":"like, one mistake doesn't cancel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2120.51,"endTime":2123.39,"body":"out all the good that you are,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2120.51,"endTime":2123.39,"body":"or the work that you've done."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2123.6,"endTime":2126.33,"body":"And you're never right back"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2123.6,"endTime":2126.33,"body":"where you started, because, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2126.33,"endTime":2129.57,"body":"I had more experience and more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2126.33,"endTime":2129.57,"body":"strength under my belt, and I,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2129.96,"endTime":2135.42,"body":"like had spiritual experiences"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2129.96,"endTime":2135.42,"body":"and had so many incidents where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2135.42,"endTime":2138.75,"body":"I was stressed or sad or mad"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2135.42,"endTime":2138.75,"body":"during that four year period,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2138.78,"endTime":2140.73,"body":"where I didn't turn to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2138.78,"endTime":2140.73,"body":"pornography as a coping"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2140.73,"endTime":2144.72,"body":"mechanism, which aligns more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2140.73,"endTime":2144.72,"body":"with my values. And so like, if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2144.72,"endTime":2147.12,"body":"you it doesn't matter how long"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2144.72,"endTime":2147.12,"body":"you go without looking at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2147.12,"endTime":2151.68,"body":"pornography. It matters, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2147.12,"endTime":2151.68,"body":"how many times you don't, and,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2152.04,"endTime":2154.41,"body":"and like you're never right back"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2152.04,"endTime":2154.41,"body":"to where you started. It's never"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2154.41,"endTime":2159.75,"body":"like, well, this thing it got me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2154.41,"endTime":2159.75,"body":"again. And yeah, like, it's not,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2159.9,"endTime":2163.23,"body":"it's not like a reset. Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2159.9,"endTime":2163.23,"body":"it's it's more linear than that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2163.23,"endTime":2166.05,"body":"like you're farther along in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2163.23,"endTime":2166.05,"body":"your journey because you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2166.0,"endTime":2169.72,"body":"You know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2166.0,"endTime":2169.72,"body":"hearing you say Charlie is, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2166.05,"endTime":2166.95,"body":"more and you've done more. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2166.05,"endTime":2166.95,"body":"know?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2169.72,"endTime":2172.09,"body":"often we look at the times when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2169.72,"endTime":2172.09,"body":"we feel like we have been a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2172.09,"endTime":2175.15,"body":"failure. All you're saying is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2172.09,"endTime":2175.15,"body":"look, look at your values, look"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2175.15,"endTime":2177.88,"body":"at the times when you have lived"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2175.15,"endTime":2177.88,"body":"according to your values, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2177.88,"endTime":2180.91,"body":"focus on those times. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2177.88,"endTime":2180.91,"body":"going forward work on making"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2180.94,"endTime":2183.4,"body":"more value-based choices."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2180.94,"endTime":2183.4,"body":"Because in the end, we're all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2183.4,"endTime":2185.35,"body":"going to make choices that don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2183.4,"endTime":2185.35,"body":"align with our values. And when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2185.35,"endTime":2188.08,"body":"that happens, it doesn't mean we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2185.35,"endTime":2188.08,"body":"failed, it means that we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2188.11,"endTime":2192.1,"body":"look forward. I had I had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2188.11,"endTime":2192.1,"body":"Bishop once say that God doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2192.1,"endTime":2195.07,"body":"care if you are at the top of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2192.1,"endTime":2195.07,"body":"the stairs or the bottom of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2195.07,"endTime":2197.59,"body":"stairs, he cares which way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2195.07,"endTime":2197.59,"body":"you're looking. And President"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2197.59,"endTime":2199.45,"body":"Worthen at BYU, he said"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2197.59,"endTime":2199.45,"body":"something similar a couple years"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2199.45,"endTime":2202.51,"body":"ago, where he said that to God,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2199.45,"endTime":2202.51,"body":"time is irrelevant. Like he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.51,"endTime":2205.39,"body":"doesn't really care where we are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.51,"endTime":2205.39,"body":"on the path because time doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.39,"endTime":2208.48,"body":"matter to him. But what matters"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.39,"endTime":2208.48,"body":"is which way we're looking on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2208.48,"endTime":2211.27,"body":"the path and which we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2208.48,"endTime":2211.27,"body":"going. And so if we're if we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2211.27,"endTime":2214.3,"body":"taking three steps forward, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2211.27,"endTime":2214.3,"body":"one or two steps back, or even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.3,"endTime":2217.87,"body":"sometimes four, or five or six"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.3,"endTime":2217.87,"body":"steps back, when we when we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2217.93,"endTime":2220.57,"body":"focusing on on moving forward"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2217.93,"endTime":2220.57,"body":"and living according to our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2220.57,"endTime":2223.3,"body":"values, like that's when God is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2220.57,"endTime":2223.3,"body":"pleased with us. And when we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2223.3,"endTime":2224.14,"body":"be pleased with ourselves."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.38,"endTime":2228.82,"body":"Yeah, I love what both of you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.38,"endTime":2228.82,"body":"said. And that's actually what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2228.82,"endTime":2233.86,"body":"the research bears out is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2228.82,"endTime":2233.86,"body":"those who, and regardless of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2233.86,"endTime":2237.25,"body":"whatever addiction it may be,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2233.86,"endTime":2237.25,"body":"but those who achieve recovery,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2237.28,"endTime":2241.96,"body":"it's most often, those who try"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2237.28,"endTime":2241.96,"body":"and use like a shame based cold"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2241.96,"endTime":2246.34,"body":"turkey approach fail. They,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2241.96,"endTime":2246.34,"body":"initially their use decreases,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2246.37,"endTime":2249.67,"body":"but then over the course of 12"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2246.37,"endTime":2249.67,"body":"months, we see it like increase"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2249.67,"endTime":2252.46,"body":"back to where it was or even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2249.67,"endTime":2252.46,"body":"more than before, but people who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2252.46,"endTime":2255.61,"body":"achieve lasting recovery, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2252.46,"endTime":2255.61,"body":"becomes less and less frequent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2255.61,"endTime":2259.39,"body":"over time. But if people think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2255.61,"endTime":2259.39,"body":"they have one slip up or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2259.39,"endTime":2261.61,"body":"something, and they're back to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2259.39,"endTime":2261.61,"body":"square one, then they're already"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2261.61,"endTime":2265.06,"body":"like, well, I'm at the bottom so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2261.61,"endTime":2265.06,"body":"why not like indulge even more?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2265.09,"endTime":2267.67,"body":"You know? They start to numb out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2265.09,"endTime":2267.67,"body":"even more, because that makes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2267.67,"endTime":2271.15,"body":"them feel bad. So then they turn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2267.67,"endTime":2271.15,"body":"to it more and more. When it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2271.15,"endTime":2275.56,"body":"like yeah, like, have slip ups"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2271.15,"endTime":2275.56,"body":"like whatever again, and it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2275.56,"endTime":2278.56,"body":"does, it depends on what people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2275.56,"endTime":2278.56,"body":"are looking for. Not everyone's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2278.56,"endTime":2281.62,"body":"looking for, oh, I never want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2278.56,"endTime":2281.62,"body":"use pornography and things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2281.62,"endTime":2285.04,"body":"that it really does depend on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2281.62,"endTime":2285.04,"body":"your values. But I do think that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2285.04,"endTime":2289.12,"body":"direction that focus focusing on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2285.04,"endTime":2289.12,"body":"your success is more than your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.12,"endTime":2292.81,"body":"failures, because we are all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.12,"endTime":2292.81,"body":"still humans struggling with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2292.81,"endTime":2296.38,"body":"effects of the fall. And we will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2292.81,"endTime":2296.38,"body":"continue to make mistakes. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2296.59,"endTime":2300.07,"body":"you're gonna be miserable if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2296.59,"endTime":2300.07,"body":"spend your whole life focused on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.07,"endTime":2303.52,"body":"the mistakes because they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.07,"endTime":2303.52,"body":"never all going away. So I love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2303.55,"endTime":2304.87,"body":"love that perspective."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.05,"endTime":2307.06,"body":"So from what I've heard you guys"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.05,"endTime":2307.06,"body":"say that if there's a listener"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.06,"endTime":2310.63,"body":"who is in this, you know, double"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.06,"endTime":2310.63,"body":"batch, as Charlie was saying,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.63,"endTime":2314.95,"body":"it's like a shame spiral. What"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.63,"endTime":2314.95,"body":"that person could do is open up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2314.98,"endTime":2318.46,"body":"talk to some trusted individuals"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2314.98,"endTime":2318.46,"body":"about what's going on, and let"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2318.46,"endTime":2321.1,"body":"some people in to what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2318.46,"endTime":2321.1,"body":"happening. And if there is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2321.1,"endTime":2324.22,"body":"someone in our lives who we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2321.1,"endTime":2324.22,"body":"might be concerned about,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2324.22,"endTime":2328.15,"body":"because of unwanted pornography"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2324.22,"endTime":2328.15,"body":"use, we can talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2328.18,"endTime":2331.12,"body":"pornography in ways that aren't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2328.18,"endTime":2331.12,"body":"filled with shame, in ways that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2331.12,"endTime":2333.85,"body":"just make it part of a normal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2331.12,"endTime":2333.85,"body":"conversation and not something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2333.85,"endTime":2335.56,"body":"that is such a taboo topic."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2336.13,"endTime":2338.26,"body":"Yeah. And I think to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2336.13,"endTime":2338.26,"body":"add on to that, I would say to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2338.35,"endTime":2342.91,"body":"remove your self worth from from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2338.35,"endTime":2342.91,"body":"your mistakes. And if you can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2342.91,"endTime":2347.5,"body":"remove your worth, from your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2342.91,"endTime":2347.5,"body":"actions, especially the negative"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2347.5,"endTime":2350.65,"body":"actions or things you don't like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2347.5,"endTime":2350.65,"body":"about yourself, it's so much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2350.65,"endTime":2355.69,"body":"easier to detach yourself from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2350.65,"endTime":2355.69,"body":"that shame and actually work on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2355.72,"endTime":2359.53,"body":"living according to your values"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2355.72,"endTime":2359.53,"body":"and work on meaningful goals"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2359.56,"endTime":2362.53,"body":"rather than just like pound"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2359.56,"endTime":2362.53,"body":"yourself with all the ways"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2362.53,"endTime":2363.55,"body":"you're not good enough."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2363.73,"endTime":2365.14,"body":"And the pornography didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2363.73,"endTime":2365.14,"body":"make you gay."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2365.0,"endTime":2369.8,"body":"It didn't make you gay."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2365.0,"endTime":2369.8,"body":"It didn't make me gay. I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2369.8,"endTime":2381.14,"body":"know. I don't know any straight"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2369.8,"endTime":2381.14,"body":"guys who watch gay porn. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2381.17,"endTime":2383.93,"body":"you look at you look at gay porn"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2381.17,"endTime":2383.93,"body":"because you're gay, not the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2383.93,"endTime":2386.84,"body":"other way around. I also want to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2383.93,"endTime":2386.84,"body":"say one thing. And actually I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2386.84,"endTime":2389.45,"body":"kind of apologize because maybe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2386.84,"endTime":2389.45,"body":"it is probably because all three"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2389.45,"endTime":2394.37,"body":"of us are male. We are focusing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2389.45,"endTime":2394.37,"body":"this conversation on men, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2394.46,"endTime":2397.34,"body":"statistically young men do look"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2394.46,"endTime":2397.34,"body":"at pornography more than women"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2397.61,"endTime":2401.81,"body":"but women look at pornography"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2397.61,"endTime":2401.81,"body":"too. Like this isn't just a guy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2401.81,"endTime":2405.62,"body":"thing. And if you are a female"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2401.81,"endTime":2405.62,"body":"who's viewing pornography,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2405.71,"endTime":2409.25,"body":"hopefully we didn't say this in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2405.71,"endTime":2409.25,"body":"a way that makes you feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2409.25,"endTime":2411.68,"body":"excluded or that all of these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2409.25,"endTime":2411.68,"body":"things don't apply to you as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2411.68,"endTime":2412.07,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2412.0,"endTime":2415.99,"body":"Yeah, that's actually a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2412.0,"endTime":2415.99,"body":"really, really good point. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2415.99,"endTime":2419.77,"body":"most recent data suggests that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2415.99,"endTime":2419.77,"body":"like even among LDS women, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2419.8,"endTime":2424.93,"body":"30 to 33% of women have sought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2419.8,"endTime":2424.93,"body":"out pornographic material. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2424.93,"endTime":2429.19,"body":"again, it can look different."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2424.93,"endTime":2429.19,"body":"But I think we do a disservice"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.19,"endTime":2432.88,"body":"when we make this a conversation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.19,"endTime":2432.88,"body":"about men like pornography being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.91,"endTime":2436.99,"body":"a men, men's problem or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.91,"endTime":2436.99,"body":"something. It's interesting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2436.99,"endTime":2439.51,"body":"there was a woman, a member of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2436.99,"endTime":2439.51,"body":"the church who started to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2439.51,"endTime":2445.09,"body":"question her gender identity,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2439.51,"endTime":2445.09,"body":"because she was struggling with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2445.09,"endTime":2448.9,"body":"pornography and all the rhetoric"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2445.09,"endTime":2448.9,"body":"was, oh, this is a men's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2448.9,"endTime":2453.61,"body":"problem. So she's like, am I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2448.9,"endTime":2453.61,"body":"like a guy then because I like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2453.61,"endTime":2458.77,"body":"pornography? There was also a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2453.61,"endTime":2458.77,"body":"story, a young woman at BYU this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2458.77,"endTime":2462.07,"body":"was about a decade ago, she was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2458.77,"endTime":2462.07,"body":"using pornography as an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.07,"endTime":2464.26,"body":"undergrad student. She'd been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.07,"endTime":2464.26,"body":"exposed when she was a young"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2464.26,"endTime":2469.63,"body":"girl, and had a problem and used"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2464.26,"endTime":2469.63,"body":"BYU's computers to look up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2469.63,"endTime":2474.25,"body":"pornography while the computers"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2469.63,"endTime":2474.25,"body":"are watching you. So she got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2474.25,"endTime":2478.48,"body":"called into a dean's office, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2474.25,"endTime":2478.48,"body":"they're like, hey. They sat her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2478.48,"endTime":2482.08,"body":"down. She was a freshman. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2478.48,"endTime":2482.08,"body":"she was terrified. She already"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2482.08,"endTime":2486.37,"body":"knew what it was about. But the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2482.08,"endTime":2486.37,"body":"dean said, hey, some guy has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2486.37,"endTime":2488.89,"body":"gotten your username and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2486.37,"endTime":2488.89,"body":"password and is using your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2488.89,"endTime":2492.67,"body":"account to look at porn. And she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2488.89,"endTime":2492.67,"body":"was mortified that she didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2492.67,"endTime":2496.06,"body":"say anything. Like she didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2492.67,"endTime":2496.06,"body":"like, oh, no, that's me like so."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2496.54,"endTime":2499.36,"body":"It wasn't till a few years"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2496.54,"endTime":2499.36,"body":"later, she was still at BYU. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2499.36,"endTime":2502.99,"body":"she was in a Relief Society and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2499.36,"endTime":2502.99,"body":"they had gotten a new, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2502.99,"endTime":2506.47,"body":"Bishop's wife when she came to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2502.99,"endTime":2506.47,"body":"introduce herself to the YSA"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2506.47,"endTime":2510.4,"body":"Relief Society. She said, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2506.47,"endTime":2510.4,"body":"we know some of you here,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2510.43,"endTime":2513.58,"body":"struggle with pornography, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2510.43,"endTime":2513.58,"body":"we're here to help you. Like we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2513.58,"endTime":2517.15,"body":"want to help you and provide a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2513.58,"endTime":2517.15,"body":"safe place for you. And for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2517.24,"endTime":2521.14,"body":"first time in her life. I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2517.24,"endTime":2521.14,"body":"she was 24, 25 she heard that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2521.44,"endTime":2525.58,"body":"she could have this problem too,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2521.44,"endTime":2525.58,"body":"and was finally able to get the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2525.58,"endTime":2529.21,"body":"resources and have someone to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2525.58,"endTime":2529.21,"body":"talk to about it, who like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2529.45,"endTime":2534.01,"body":"finally acknowledged women also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2529.45,"endTime":2534.01,"body":"look at porn. So I think that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2534.01,"endTime":2535.75,"body":"such an important point. I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2534.01,"endTime":2535.75,"body":"glad you brought that up,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2535.75,"endTime":2536.2,"body":"Charlie."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2536.69,"endTime":2539.54,"body":"Well, it kind of reminds me of I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2536.69,"endTime":2539.54,"body":"think it's a scripture, Ben you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2539.54,"endTime":2543.32,"body":"can check me on this, like all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2539.54,"endTime":2543.32,"body":"temptations are common to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2543.32,"endTime":2546.89,"body":"humankind. Like, if you're going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2543.32,"endTime":2546.89,"body":"through something like everyone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2546.89,"endTime":2550.28,"body":"thinks that they're the only one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2546.89,"endTime":2550.28,"body":"but you're not. Like, like life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2550.28,"endTime":2554.39,"body":"experiences is so much more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2550.28,"endTime":2554.39,"body":"shared than we think it is. I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2554.39,"endTime":2558.62,"body":"wondering if either of you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2554.39,"endTime":2558.62,"body":"any advice on how to support"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2558.62,"endTime":2563.66,"body":"someone who is dealing with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2558.62,"endTime":2563.66,"body":"unwanted pornography viewing or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2563.93,"endTime":2567.47,"body":"that like if it hasn't even been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2563.93,"endTime":2567.47,"body":"brought up? Right? If like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2567.47,"endTime":2571.37,"body":"parent raising a child, or a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2567.47,"endTime":2571.37,"body":"friend with a roommate, like how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.37,"endTime":2574.7,"body":"do you support someone and not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.37,"endTime":2574.7,"body":"add to this shame? Because I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.7,"endTime":2579.05,"body":"thinking, again, it feels a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.7,"endTime":2579.05,"body":"little bit embarrassing, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2579.05,"endTime":2582.26,"body":"it's personal. But after this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2579.05,"endTime":2582.26,"body":"experience, I had that first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2582.26,"endTime":2585.29,"body":"time that I sought out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2582.26,"endTime":2585.29,"body":"pornography and just felt sick."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2585.59,"endTime":2588.26,"body":"I remember before I left my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2585.59,"endTime":2588.26,"body":"mission, I had a conversation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.26,"endTime":2591.92,"body":"with my little brother. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.26,"endTime":2591.92,"body":"was like, whatever you do, don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2591.92,"endTime":2594.38,"body":"look at pornography. I'm like, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2591.92,"endTime":2594.38,"body":"don't care what you do, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2594.38,"endTime":2597.65,"body":"pornography will ruin you. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2594.38,"endTime":2597.65,"body":"will mess you up. Don't do it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2597.65,"endTime":2601.07,"body":"because I thought I was messed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2597.65,"endTime":2601.07,"body":"up. Because it had made me sick."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2601.07,"endTime":2603.89,"body":"You know, it made me ill and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2601.07,"endTime":2603.89,"body":"made me feel so bad. And so my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.89,"endTime":2607.07,"body":"way of trying to keep him safe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.89,"endTime":2607.07,"body":"from those feelings that I had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2607.07,"endTime":2611.78,"body":"experienced was to like, be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2607.07,"endTime":2611.78,"body":"like, never even go there. Don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2611.78,"endTime":2615.35,"body":"do it. And then looking back, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2611.78,"endTime":2615.35,"body":"was like, oh my gosh, like he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2615.35,"endTime":2618.26,"body":"was he was a kid like why? Why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2615.35,"endTime":2618.26,"body":"did I put that on him? That's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2618.26,"endTime":2622.79,"body":"so, and then and then that said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2618.26,"endTime":2622.79,"body":"the precedent that if there ever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2622.79,"endTime":2626.66,"body":"was an issue, I was not a safe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2622.79,"endTime":2626.66,"body":"person to talk about it with."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2626.99,"endTime":2631.25,"body":"Right? Because I would be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2626.99,"endTime":2631.25,"body":"shaming and it like reinforced"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2631.25,"endTime":2634.25,"body":"the idea that looking at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2631.25,"endTime":2634.25,"body":"pornography makes you a bad"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2634.25,"endTime":2639.2,"body":"person. So what can we do to to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2634.25,"endTime":2639.2,"body":"rid ourselves from that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2639.2,"endTime":2642.08,"body":"mentality and actually come at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2639.2,"endTime":2642.08,"body":"it with a more hopeful and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2642.08,"endTime":2643.04,"body":"effective approach?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.07,"endTime":2646.16,"body":"Well, I think one of the things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.07,"endTime":2646.16,"body":"is like the statistics that Liam"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2646.16,"endTime":2649.28,"body":"was sharing is, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2646.16,"endTime":2649.28,"body":"majority of youth and young"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2649.28,"endTime":2653.66,"body":"adults and people are, will be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2649.28,"endTime":2653.66,"body":"exposed to pornography and view"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2653.66,"endTime":2656.36,"body":"pornography, or have viewed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2653.66,"endTime":2656.36,"body":"pornography on a regular basis."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2656.39,"endTime":2658.79,"body":"That's just something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2656.39,"endTime":2658.79,"body":"happens. And so if we can just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2658.85,"endTime":2661.13,"body":"talk about this with an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2658.85,"endTime":2661.13,"body":"understanding that this is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2661.13,"endTime":2665.12,"body":"common thing that is happening,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2661.13,"endTime":2665.12,"body":"I think that we'll we'll just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2665.24,"endTime":2667.4,"body":"that'll that'll change the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2665.24,"endTime":2667.4,"body":"conversations like Liam said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2667.4,"endTime":2671.03,"body":"have them in ways that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2667.4,"endTime":2671.03,"body":"hopeful and and not shame based."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2671.12,"endTime":2673.79,"body":"It's not let's avoid this from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2671.12,"endTime":2673.79,"body":"happening, but okay, this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.79,"endTime":2676.1,"body":"going to happen. So how are we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.79,"endTime":2676.1,"body":"going to respond to that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.33,"endTime":2680.08,"body":"I 100% agree with that. I love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.33,"endTime":2680.08,"body":"it's like this is going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2680.08,"endTime":2682.96,"body":"happen we are we are all going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2680.08,"endTime":2682.96,"body":"to be exposed to pornography,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2683.14,"endTime":2687.34,"body":"like within within the church"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2683.14,"endTime":2687.34,"body":"with religious people, based on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2687.34,"endTime":2690.94,"body":"the most recent data I've seen,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2687.34,"endTime":2690.94,"body":"religious people and Mormons are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2690.94,"endTime":2693.85,"body":"no exception. Sorry, not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2690.94,"endTime":2693.85,"body":"Mormons. Members of the Church"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2693.85,"endTime":2698.26,"body":"of Jesus Christ of Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2693.85,"endTime":2698.26,"body":"Saints are no exceptions here. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2698.26,"endTime":2702.52,"body":"think 94% of Religious men"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2698.26,"endTime":2702.52,"body":"admitted to having sought out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2702.52,"endTime":2706.66,"body":"pornographic material since they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2702.52,"endTime":2706.66,"body":"turned 18. So after they turned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2706.66,"endTime":2713.47,"body":"18. 85%, or like 83 84%,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2706.66,"endTime":2713.47,"body":"admitted to having sought it out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2713.47,"endTime":2716.8,"body":"in the last 12 months, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2713.47,"endTime":2716.8,"body":"think the way we talk about it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2716.8,"endTime":2719.8,"body":"in the church, so often when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2716.8,"endTime":2719.8,"body":"we're having conversations about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2719.8,"endTime":2724.42,"body":"chastity or pornography, we want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2719.8,"endTime":2724.42,"body":"to make it sound like, oh, maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.42,"endTime":2727.63,"body":"one or two of you need this. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.42,"endTime":2727.63,"body":"one of my favorite things to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2727.63,"endTime":2730.75,"body":"when I go to talk to an Elders"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2727.63,"endTime":2730.75,"body":"Quorum or something is kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2730.75,"endTime":2733.9,"body":"dispel that right away by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2730.75,"endTime":2733.9,"body":"talking about the statistics."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2733.9,"endTime":2736.99,"body":"It's not one or two of you need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2733.9,"endTime":2736.99,"body":"this, it's maybe one or two of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2736.99,"endTime":2740.59,"body":"you don't need this right now."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2736.99,"endTime":2740.59,"body":"Like, let's, let's stop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2740.59,"endTime":2745.69,"body":"pretending most of us are doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2740.59,"endTime":2745.69,"body":"okay. And like, I wish, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2745.75,"endTime":2749.71,"body":"another part of it is just being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2745.75,"endTime":2749.71,"body":"open and honest, as much as we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2749.71,"endTime":2754.27,"body":"can, as much as appropriate with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2749.71,"endTime":2754.27,"body":"people we can trust because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2754.27,"endTime":2757.9,"body":"think it's creating a space. One"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2754.27,"endTime":2757.9,"body":"of my favorite scriptures is in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.93,"endTime":2762.28,"body":"Moroni 6. And when, it's talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.93,"endTime":2762.28,"body":"about how they met as a church,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2762.28,"endTime":2764.47,"body":"and it talks, I mean, I use that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2762.28,"endTime":2764.47,"body":"scripture all the time as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2764.47,"endTime":2767.14,"body":"missionary. It talks about like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2764.47,"endTime":2767.14,"body":"they gathered, and they take the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2767.14,"endTime":2770.23,"body":"bread and the wine to remember"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2767.14,"endTime":2770.23,"body":"Christ or whatever. But then the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2770.23,"endTime":2774.22,"body":"next line is, and they did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2770.23,"endTime":2774.22,"body":"gather to meet with one another,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2774.28,"endTime":2776.74,"body":"and to speak with one another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2774.28,"endTime":2776.74,"body":"concerning the welfare of their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2776.74,"endTime":2781.39,"body":"souls. I wish like that was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2776.74,"endTime":2781.39,"body":"the culture that we had, where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2781.39,"endTime":2783.79,"body":"we could bring these problems"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2781.39,"endTime":2783.79,"body":"like that's, that's really what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2783.79,"endTime":2788.59,"body":"the church in this community is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2783.79,"endTime":2788.59,"body":"for is to to have those safe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2788.59,"endTime":2792.76,"body":"places and to be those safe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2788.59,"endTime":2792.76,"body":"places. But again, focusing more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2792.79,"endTime":2797.68,"body":"on I think recovery so often we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2792.79,"endTime":2797.68,"body":"grew up with it. Yeah, don't do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2797.68,"endTime":2801.31,"body":"this. Don't do this. Don't do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2797.68,"endTime":2801.31,"body":"this. And I remember, as a team"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2801.31,"endTime":2804.49,"body":"struggling with this, I got to a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2801.31,"endTime":2804.49,"body":"point was like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2804.49,"endTime":2807.91,"body":"hypothetically, let's say I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2804.49,"endTime":2807.91,"body":"cross the line. Now what? Like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2808.12,"endTime":2812.05,"body":"let's say I already did it. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2808.12,"endTime":2812.05,"body":"every lesson was still don't do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2812.05,"endTime":2815.53,"body":"it. Don't do it. You'll get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2812.05,"endTime":2815.53,"body":"trapped, instead of like, but if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2815.53,"endTime":2817.69,"body":"you have, there's still."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2817.69,"endTime":2820.0,"body":"And that just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2817.69,"endTime":2820.0,"body":"reinforces the idea that you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2820.0,"endTime":2821.2,"body":"stuck in a trap forever."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":2821.56,"endTime":2823.33,"body":"Yeah, and you're the only"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":2821.56,"endTime":2823.33,"body":"one. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2823.87,"endTime":2826.45,"body":"Well, I also think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2823.87,"endTime":2826.45,"body":"there's a myth that talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2826.45,"endTime":2831.22,"body":"about it, will make it happen."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2826.45,"endTime":2831.22,"body":"And it's kind of like, it's kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2831.22,"endTime":2835.18,"body":"of like sex or suicide. Like as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2831.22,"endTime":2835.18,"body":"you educate other people on this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2835.18,"endTime":2838.69,"body":"and are more open, then that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2835.18,"endTime":2838.69,"body":"element of like, mystery is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2838.69,"endTime":2841.03,"body":"gone. And then it actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2838.69,"endTime":2841.03,"body":"happens less."},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":2841.45,"endTime":2842.2,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2842.65,"endTime":2844.6,"body":"Well, Liam, thank you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2842.65,"endTime":2844.6,"body":"so much for joining us for your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2844.6,"endTime":2847.48,"body":"perspective and your expertise,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2844.6,"endTime":2847.48,"body":"and for having all the knowledge"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2847.48,"endTime":2849.64,"body":"about stats and stuff. So thank"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2847.48,"endTime":2849.64,"body":"you for joining us"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":2849.88,"endTime":2851.86,"body":"Yeah. No, I'm really happy"},{"speaker":"Liam","startTime":2849.88,"endTime":2851.86,"body":"to be here."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2853.15,"endTime":2855.13,"body":"Thank you for joining"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2853.15,"endTime":2855.13,"body":"us today. If you have enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2855.13,"endTime":2857.62,"body":"this or other episodes, please"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2855.13,"endTime":2857.62,"body":"consider leaving us a review."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.1,"endTime":2860.44,"body":"And as always, please remember"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.1,"endTime":2860.44,"body":"that we do not represent the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2860.44,"endTime":2862.36,"body":"Church of Jesus Christ of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2860.44,"endTime":2862.36,"body":"Latter-day Saints or Brigham"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2862.36,"endTime":2864.67,"body":"Young University. We're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2862.36,"endTime":2864.67,"body":"trying to be prescriptive or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.67,"endTime":2866.2,"body":"tell anyone what to think or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.67,"endTime":2866.2,"body":"what to do."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2866.65,"endTime":2869.11,"body":"You heard three perspectives,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2866.65,"endTime":2869.11,"body":"and there are many, many more."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2869.32,"endTime":2871.72,"body":"We encourage you to listen to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2869.32,"endTime":2871.72,"body":"other voices and hear a wide"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2871.72,"endTime":2874.57,"body":"variety of experiences. If you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2871.72,"endTime":2874.57,"body":"would like to submit a question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2874.63,"endTime":2878.86,"body":"or share a comment about today's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2874.63,"endTime":2878.86,"body":"episode, you can email us at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.86,"endTime":2881.11,"body":"questionsfromthecloset@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2878.86,"endTime":2881.11,"body":"Until next time."}]}