{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.91,"endTime":8.07,"body":"Welcome to questions"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.91,"endTime":8.07,"body":"from the closet. I'm Charlie"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":8.07,"endTime":8.37,"body":"Bird."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.45,"endTime":11.06,"body":"And I'm Ben Schilaty. Each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.45,"endTime":11.06,"body":"episode we discuss a question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":11.06,"endTime":13.67,"body":"that we commonly get asked as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":11.06,"endTime":13.67,"body":"LGBTQ Latter-day Saints."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.79,"endTime":15.98,"body":"We are not trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.79,"endTime":15.98,"body":"answer this question or come to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":15.98,"endTime":18.35,"body":"a consensus but simply sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":15.98,"endTime":18.35,"body":"our perspectives."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":18.62,"endTime":21.41,"body":"Today's question is, can I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":18.62,"endTime":21.41,"body":"date? Charlie and I are not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":21.41,"endTime":23.72,"body":"totally diverse, we share many"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":21.41,"endTime":23.72,"body":"opinions and life experiences."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":23.78,"endTime":26.57,"body":"For example, we both been in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":23.78,"endTime":26.57,"body":"same sex romantic relationships."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":27.26,"endTime":28.43,"body":"Ben why do you put it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":27.26,"endTime":28.43,"body":"that way?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":29.54,"endTime":31.34,"body":"Honestly, the reason I say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":29.54,"endTime":31.34,"body":"that is that's what it said in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":31.34,"endTime":33.26,"body":"the letter from the church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":31.34,"endTime":33.26,"body":"Commissioner about the Honor"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":33.26,"endTime":35.3,"body":"Code, that same sex romantic"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":33.26,"endTime":35.3,"body":"relationships were against the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":35.3,"endTime":35.69,"body":"Honor Code."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":35.96,"endTime":38.84,"body":"I feel like the gross"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":35.96,"endTime":38.84,"body":"way to say it. Like we've both"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":38.84,"endTime":39.65,"body":"dated someone."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":41.0,"endTime":43.76,"body":"It's just like very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":41.0,"endTime":43.76,"body":"sterile."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":44.42,"endTime":47.15,"body":"It's very sterile."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":44.42,"endTime":47.15,"body":"However, there are some pretty"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.31,"endTime":52.19,"body":"I have never used a dating"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.31,"endTime":52.19,"body":"app. But Charlie has."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":52.22,"endTime":55.79,"body":"That is true. I did the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":52.22,"endTime":55.79,"body":"best I could with the knowledge"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":55.79,"endTime":56.48,"body":"I had."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":57.62,"endTime":59.27,"body":"And I didn't have a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":57.62,"endTime":59.27,"body":"smartphone. So..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":59.33,"endTime":60.71,"body":"Really? It was that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":59.33,"endTime":60.71,"body":"long ago?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":60.77,"endTime":63.65,"body":"I got actually got, I think"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":60.77,"endTime":63.65,"body":"so my mom bought me a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":63.65,"endTime":67.01,"body":"smartphone, after Jordan, and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":63.65,"endTime":67.01,"body":"ended our relationship. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":67.01,"endTime":69.26,"body":"think she bought it for me to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":67.01,"endTime":69.26,"body":"like make me feel better."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":69.75,"endTime":72.33,"body":"Yeah, I use dating apps"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":69.75,"endTime":72.33,"body":"for a while when I was dating,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":72.33,"endTime":76.02,"body":"but then I stopped, and probably"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":72.33,"endTime":76.02,"body":"never will again."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":76.0,"endTime":79.24,"body":"Yeah, I often really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":76.0,"endTime":79.24,"body":"caution people against dating"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.24,"endTime":81.52,"body":"apps, because people can be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.24,"endTime":81.52,"body":"really pushy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":81.82,"endTime":82.06,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":82.06,"endTime":83.47,"body":"And people end up doing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":82.06,"endTime":83.47,"body":"things they don't want to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":84.1,"endTime":84.61,"body":"That's true."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":85.92,"endTime":88.5,"body":"So we like to provide a variety"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":85.92,"endTime":88.5,"body":"of voices and perspectives on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":88.5,"endTime":91.5,"body":"this podcast, but today, it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":88.5,"endTime":91.5,"body":"just gonna be me and Ben,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":91.53,"endTime":95.1,"body":"because we feel like this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":91.53,"endTime":95.1,"body":"like cracking open. I've never"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":95.1,"endTime":98.07,"body":"talked about dating before"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":95.1,"endTime":98.07,"body":"publicly really ever. And Ben"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":98.07,"endTime":100.71,"body":"has, but this is kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":98.07,"endTime":100.71,"body":"we figured it'd be good to get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":100.71,"endTime":104.4,"body":"like our some of our experiences"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":100.71,"endTime":104.4,"body":"and stories out first. And then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":104.4,"endTime":107.19,"body":"we'll probably maybe have other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":104.4,"endTime":107.19,"body":"people on to talk about their"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":107.19,"endTime":108.03,"body":"experiences later."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":108.0,"endTime":110.73,"body":"Yeah, well, I mean, you you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":108.0,"endTime":110.73,"body":"just you have a lot to share"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":110.73,"endTime":111.45,"body":"that you've never shared."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":111.45,"endTime":112.86,"body":"I have a lot to share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":111.45,"endTime":112.86,"body":"that I've never shared."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":112.86,"endTime":115.05,"body":"So this is kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":112.86,"endTime":115.05,"body":"Charlie's dating coming out."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":115.08,"endTime":117.15,"body":"This is my dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":115.08,"endTime":117.15,"body":"coming out. You got all the tea"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":117.15,"endTime":118.29,"body":"on my past boyfriends."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":118.32,"endTime":120.27,"body":"I also want to say I'm very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":118.32,"endTime":120.27,"body":"impressed with our intro because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":120.27,"endTime":121.23,"body":"I did it from memory."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":122.52,"endTime":123.54,"body":"He's doing a good job."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":124.59,"endTime":127.53,"body":"Yeah. So you know, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":124.59,"endTime":127.53,"body":"kind of battled back and forth"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":127.53,"endTime":130.29,"body":"about like, what the question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":127.53,"endTime":130.29,"body":"was going to be because we"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":130.29,"endTime":132.66,"body":"Can I be"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":130.29,"endTime":132.66,"body":"in a same sex romantic"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":132.66,"endTime":135.15,"body":"relationship? What is it like to"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":132.66,"endTime":135.15,"body":"be in a same sex relationship?"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":135.33,"endTime":137.61,"body":"But the question we always get"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":135.33,"endTime":137.61,"body":"is, can I date? Like, that's the"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":137.61,"endTime":141.27,"body":"actual question. And you know,"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":137.61,"endTime":141.27,"body":"we we get multiple, we've gotten"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":141.27,"endTime":144.42,"body":"multiple emails to the the"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":141.27,"endTime":144.42,"body":"podcast email about, like, is it"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":144.42,"endTime":147.39,"body":"okay to date? I feel like people"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":144.42,"endTime":147.39,"body":"are trying to get permission"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":147.39,"endTime":151.62,"body":"from us, right, about to date."},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":147.39,"endTime":151.62,"body":"And I don't want to give anyone"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":151.62,"endTime":153.9,"body":"permission to do anything. Like,"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":151.62,"endTime":153.9,"body":"I don't think that's right to"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":153.9,"endTime":157.14,"body":"look for us for what's right and"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":153.9,"endTime":157.14,"body":"what's wrong. And so we're"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":157.14,"endTime":159.0,"body":"definitely not saying what's"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":157.14,"endTime":159.0,"body":"right and what's wrong. We're"},{"speaker":"wondered, should it be","startTime":159.0,"endTime":160.98,"body":"just sharing our experiences."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":161.7,"endTime":164.22,"body":"Yeah, definitely. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":161.7,"endTime":164.22,"body":"think that being said, like both"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":164.22,"endTime":168.6,"body":"of us have dated someone and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":164.22,"endTime":168.6,"body":"like, at least me specifically,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":168.6,"endTime":170.94,"body":"I kind of feel like it was trial"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":168.6,"endTime":170.94,"body":"by fire. And there were things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":170.94,"endTime":174.09,"body":"that I learned that I had to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":170.94,"endTime":174.09,"body":"learn. But there were things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":174.09,"endTime":175.86,"body":"that I wish I could have had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":174.09,"endTime":175.86,"body":"someone to guide me and tell me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":175.86,"endTime":178.86,"body":"how to do it a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":175.86,"endTime":178.86,"body":"gracefully. I kind of felt"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":178.86,"endTime":184.38,"body":"really stupid as I started"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":178.86,"endTime":184.38,"body":"dating. And so if I can help"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":184.38,"endTime":186.45,"body":"anyone, like, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":184.38,"endTime":186.45,"body":"like, again, we're not trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":186.45,"endTime":188.67,"body":"tell people what to do, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":186.45,"endTime":188.67,"body":"what's good, or what's moral or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":188.67,"endTime":191.85,"body":"what's right for them. But both"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":188.67,"endTime":191.85,"body":"of us have had experiences. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":191.85,"endTime":194.61,"body":"if anyone else is going to have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":191.85,"endTime":194.61,"body":"those experiences, I would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":194.61,"endTime":199.53,"body":"rather them have a little bit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":194.61,"endTime":199.53,"body":"more advice than I got."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":199.57,"endTime":202.12,"body":"Yeah. And you say like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":199.57,"endTime":202.12,"body":"if someone is going to do this,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":202.69,"endTime":205.27,"body":"I was recently asked by a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":202.69,"endTime":205.27,"body":"Bishop, like, is it okay, like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":205.39,"endTime":209.53,"body":"YSA bishop. He was like, can my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":205.39,"endTime":209.53,"body":"ward members like, date guys, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":209.53,"endTime":213.31,"body":"they're gay men? And and I said"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":209.53,"endTime":213.31,"body":"I think that's the wrong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":213.31,"endTime":215.53,"body":"question. I think the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":213.31,"endTime":215.53,"body":"question is, what do we do when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":215.53,"endTime":219.01,"body":"that happens? Because almost I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":215.53,"endTime":219.01,"body":"know tons and tons and tons of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":219.01,"endTime":223.0,"body":"LGBTQ Latter Day Saints. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":219.01,"endTime":223.0,"body":"majority of them end up in some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":223.0,"endTime":226.03,"body":"kind of same sex romantic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":223.0,"endTime":226.03,"body":"relationship, if you will, at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":226.03,"endTime":228.94,"body":"some point, you know, whether it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":226.03,"endTime":228.94,"body":"happens on purpose, or just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":229.0,"endTime":232.0,"body":"organically, I think, almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":229.0,"endTime":232.0,"body":"everyone's gonna end up in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":232.0,"endTime":234.43,"body":"position where they like someone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":232.0,"endTime":234.43,"body":"who likes them back."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":234.55,"endTime":237.1,"body":"Right. And people used to say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":234.55,"endTime":237.1,"body":"that to me, and I'd be like, no,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.1,"endTime":239.8,"body":"no, no, but then, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.1,"endTime":239.8,"body":"don't want that to stress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":239.8,"endTime":244.33,"body":"anybody out. But like, most of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":239.8,"endTime":244.33,"body":"the time, if you are gay or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":244.33,"endTime":248.71,"body":"lesbian, you end up dating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":244.33,"endTime":248.71,"body":"someone of the same sex at some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":248.71,"endTime":249.1,"body":"point."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":249.87,"endTime":252.81,"body":"So another difference would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":249.87,"endTime":252.81,"body":"between us is, I never tried to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":252.81,"endTime":256.5,"body":"date it just kind of happened."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":252.81,"endTime":256.5,"body":"Like I wasn't, I wasn't looking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":256.5,"endTime":259.98,"body":"for a relationship. It was just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":256.5,"endTime":259.98,"body":"Jordan I met started off being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":259.98,"endTime":263.7,"body":"friends. And then that turned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":259.98,"endTime":263.7,"body":"romantic. Like it wasn't wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":263.7,"endTime":264.54,"body":"planned at all."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":264.6,"endTime":267.99,"body":"Yeah. Whereas my dating was very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":264.6,"endTime":267.99,"body":"intentional. And I like planned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":268.02,"endTime":270.03,"body":"to do it. And when I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":268.02,"endTime":270.03,"body":"start, so."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":270.06,"endTime":273.36,"body":"Yeah. Did you include like your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":270.06,"endTime":273.36,"body":"friends and what was happening"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":273.36,"endTime":273.96,"body":"the whole time?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":273.99,"endTime":276.48,"body":"Yeah. So I have a lot to say."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":273.99,"endTime":276.48,"body":"I'm not exactly sure where to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.48,"endTime":278.85,"body":"start. I guess I'll start I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.48,"endTime":278.85,"body":"actually want to start talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":278.85,"endTime":281.1,"body":"about you, Ben. If that's okay."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":278.85,"endTime":281.1,"body":"Like how did you just like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":281.1,"endTime":283.44,"body":"accidentally fall into a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":281.1,"endTime":283.44,"body":"relationship with someone?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":283.47,"endTime":285.54,"body":"Well, Jordan is very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":283.47,"endTime":285.54,"body":"flirty, and he's very funny and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":285.54,"endTime":287.73,"body":"clever. And the thing that turns"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":285.54,"endTime":287.73,"body":"me on the most. I shouldn't say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":287.73,"endTime":288.24,"body":"turns me on."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":288.69,"endTime":289.35,"body":"Say it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":292.56,"endTime":294.15,"body":"The thing I'm most"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":292.56,"endTime":294.15,"body":"attracted to is like a good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":294.15,"endTime":298.56,"body":"sense of humor. And Jordan is so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":294.15,"endTime":298.56,"body":"funny. And so we actually had a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":298.59,"endTime":301.17,"body":"long distance relationship"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":298.59,"endTime":301.17,"body":"because I was in Arizona most of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":301.17,"endTime":305.22,"body":"the time, and he was in Utah"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":301.17,"endTime":305.22,"body":"most of the time. And so we we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":305.22,"endTime":307.44,"body":"met through my my brother and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":305.22,"endTime":307.44,"body":"sister-in-law, and so we just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":307.44,"endTime":309.99,"body":"kind of organically became"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":307.44,"endTime":309.99,"body":"friends. And then we would talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":309.99,"endTime":311.58,"body":"on the phone sometimes, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":309.99,"endTime":311.58,"body":"neither would come out to the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":311.58,"endTime":314.37,"body":"other one, but we were kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":311.58,"endTime":314.37,"body":"flirty. And then a New Year's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":314.37,"endTime":317.43,"body":"Eve, this was New Year's Eve. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":314.37,"endTime":317.43,"body":"don't even know what year it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":317.43,"endTime":317.91,"body":"was, I guess it was..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":318.09,"endTime":319.17,"body":"Ben's really old."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":319.0,"endTime":322.06,"body":"I think was probably 2013."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":319.0,"endTime":322.06,"body":"We were like texting all day."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":322.09,"endTime":324.43,"body":"Well, I first and I liked him"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":322.09,"endTime":324.43,"body":"when it was over Christmas"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":324.43,"endTime":327.16,"body":"break. And we've been texting a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":324.43,"endTime":327.16,"body":"little bit and then he had to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":327.16,"endTime":330.19,"body":"like he was going to a cabin for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":327.16,"endTime":330.19,"body":"the evening with with with some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":330.19,"endTime":332.59,"body":"friends. And he was like, Hey, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":330.19,"endTime":332.59,"body":"won't be texting you for a while"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":332.59,"endTime":334.78,"body":"because I'm going to be gone out"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":332.59,"endTime":334.78,"body":"of service, like okay, whatever."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":335.05,"endTime":339.7,"body":"And I missed texting him. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":335.05,"endTime":339.7,"body":"then, like, the next afternoon,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":339.82,"endTime":343.93,"body":"I got like, 20 texts from him at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":339.82,"endTime":343.93,"body":"once. And he said, I have a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":343.93,"endTime":345.88,"body":"of things I wanted to text you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":343.93,"endTime":345.88,"body":"about. So I'm just gonna text"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":345.88,"endTime":348.07,"body":"you as they happen, and I'll"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":345.88,"endTime":348.07,"body":"send them when I get back. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":348.07,"endTime":350.59,"body":"was like, I got these like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":348.07,"endTime":350.59,"body":"enormous butterflies. I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":350.59,"endTime":353.95,"body":"like, Oh my gosh, this is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":350.59,"endTime":353.95,"body":"amazing. And then on New Year's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":353.95,"endTime":357.34,"body":"Eve, we were just like texting,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":353.95,"endTime":357.34,"body":"like, our new year's resolutions"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":357.34,"endTime":360.52,"body":"and like random confessions. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":357.34,"endTime":360.52,"body":"the last thing he texted me was,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":360.55,"endTime":362.65,"body":"it was like two in the morning."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":360.55,"endTime":362.65,"body":"He's like, last random"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":362.65,"endTime":366.25,"body":"confession. Ben, I love you. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":362.65,"endTime":366.25,"body":"I wrote in my journal, I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":366.25,"endTime":369.01,"body":"like, I'm sure he meant it in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":366.25,"endTime":369.01,"body":"brotherly love sort of way but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":369.01,"endTime":372.25,"body":"it made me feel really good on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":369.01,"endTime":372.25,"body":"the inside. And and we hadn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":372.25,"endTime":374.86,"body":"come out to each other yet. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":372.25,"endTime":374.86,"body":"so I wrote this essay that ended"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":374.86,"endTime":377.44,"body":"up becoming my blog post, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":374.86,"endTime":377.44,"body":"my coming out blog post a year"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":377.44,"endTime":379.84,"body":"later. And he was the first"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":377.44,"endTime":379.84,"body":"person I sent it to."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":380.14,"endTime":381.49,"body":"That's so cute."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":381.52,"endTime":383.44,"body":"And so he so I sent it to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":381.52,"endTime":383.44,"body":"him. I was like, so nervous,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":383.44,"endTime":385.6,"body":"like, he's gonna know, I'm gay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":383.44,"endTime":385.6,"body":"He's gonna know I'm gay. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":385.6,"endTime":387.94,"body":"then he texted back, like five"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":385.6,"endTime":387.94,"body":"minutes later, I am too."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":389.4,"endTime":392.88,"body":"Then you're so dense."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":389.4,"endTime":392.88,"body":"He says confession, I love you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":392.88,"endTime":396.48,"body":"And you're like, oh, we're all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":392.88,"endTime":396.48,"body":"brothers in Christ."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":396.66,"endTime":400.86,"body":"Well, it's not that I was being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":396.66,"endTime":400.86,"body":"dense. It was just like, I, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":400.86,"endTime":401.91,"body":"couldn't like him."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":401.94,"endTime":402.3,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":402.33,"endTime":406.05,"body":"And I and if you go through"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":402.33,"endTime":406.05,"body":"my journal, which I assume you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":406.05,"endTime":408.96,"body":"wouldn't, but like those first"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":406.05,"endTime":408.96,"body":"couple days after I'm like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":408.96,"endTime":411.24,"body":"don't want to have a romantic"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":408.96,"endTime":411.24,"body":"relationship with him. I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":411.24,"endTime":413.07,"body":"want to fall in love with him. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":411.24,"endTime":413.07,"body":"don't want to have a crush on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":413.07,"endTime":414.78,"body":"him. But I just really want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":413.07,"endTime":414.78,"body":"be his good friend."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":414.84,"endTime":415.17,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":415.0,"endTime":417.16,"body":"And there was this tension"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":415.0,"endTime":417.16,"body":"of like, I don't want to like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":417.16,"endTime":418.72,"body":"him. I don't want to like him. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":417.16,"endTime":418.72,"body":"don't want to like him. But then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":418.72,"endTime":422.11,"body":"I did. And so I got back to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":418.72,"endTime":422.11,"body":"Arizona like a few weeks later,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":422.11,"endTime":424.09,"body":"and two of my really good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":422.11,"endTime":424.09,"body":"friends had started dating over"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":424.09,"endTime":428.5,"body":"the break. And so this is my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":424.09,"endTime":428.5,"body":"friends, Eric and Amy. And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":428.53,"endTime":430.78,"body":"when I got back to Arizona, Eric"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":428.53,"endTime":430.78,"body":"and I like went on a walk. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":430.78,"endTime":433.03,"body":"he was just like gushing about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":430.78,"endTime":433.03,"body":"Amy and ended up getting married"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":433.03,"endTime":435.22,"body":"later. And so he's just like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":433.03,"endTime":435.22,"body":"gushing about this relationship."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":435.22,"endTime":437.35,"body":"And I was like, so happy for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":435.22,"endTime":437.35,"body":"him. He was like, so happy. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":437.35,"endTime":439.93,"body":"was like, I have this thing too,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":437.35,"endTime":439.93,"body":"that I want to share. And I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":439.93,"endTime":442.21,"body":"like, can I and so fine. I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":439.93,"endTime":442.21,"body":"told him everything that was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":442.21,"endTime":445.9,"body":"going on. And he was so thrilled"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":442.21,"endTime":445.9,"body":"for me just like so thrilled."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":445.9,"endTime":448.21,"body":"He's a member of the church. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":445.9,"endTime":448.21,"body":"he is just like, Ben, this is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":448.21,"endTime":451.81,"body":"great. Like, I want to know all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":448.21,"endTime":451.81,"body":"about what's happening. And, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":451.81,"endTime":454.39,"body":"I was really grateful that like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":451.81,"endTime":454.39,"body":"from almost the beginning, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":454.39,"endTime":456.37,"body":"kept my friends in the loop and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":454.39,"endTime":456.37,"body":"what was happening."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":456.36,"endTime":458.28,"body":"Yeah, that must have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":456.36,"endTime":458.28,"body":"been really validating. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":458.28,"endTime":460.74,"body":"feel like it's just much safer."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":458.28,"endTime":460.74,"body":"You know, as you're doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.74,"endTime":463.8,"body":"something and meeting people,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.74,"endTime":463.8,"body":"especially like, I was using"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":463.8,"endTime":465.93,"body":"dating apps when I first started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":463.8,"endTime":465.93,"body":"dating, because I didn't really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":465.93,"endTime":470.79,"body":"know what else how else to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":465.93,"endTime":470.79,"body":"it. And it was so much better to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.79,"endTime":475.44,"body":"like, have friends that I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.79,"endTime":475.44,"body":"talk to, and like be involved in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":475.44,"endTime":478.8,"body":"that process, because it's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":475.44,"endTime":478.8,"body":"safer. That's honestly a piece"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":478.8,"endTime":482.1,"body":"of advice I would give is if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":478.8,"endTime":482.1,"body":"you're if you're gonna date, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":482.1,"endTime":485.67,"body":"would be out before you start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":482.1,"endTime":485.67,"body":"dating. And a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":485.67,"endTime":489.3,"body":"don't actually most people I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":485.67,"endTime":489.3,"body":"know, are dating before they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.3,"endTime":491.94,"body":"come out. And a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.3,"endTime":491.94,"body":"like dating is the catalyst for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":491.94,"endTime":496.23,"body":"their coming out. And I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":491.94,"endTime":496.23,"body":"that's fine. And but I think the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.23,"endTime":499.14,"body":"best thing you can do for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.23,"endTime":499.14,"body":"yourself is to be out and kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":499.14,"endTime":501.06,"body":"of like normalize that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":499.14,"endTime":501.06,"body":"experience, because you're just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.06,"endTime":503.61,"body":"going to be operating in a much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.06,"endTime":503.61,"body":"healthier space."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":503.67,"endTime":506.01,"body":"Yeah. And I think it's just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":503.67,"endTime":506.01,"body":"healthy for all of us to just,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":506.04,"endTime":508.14,"body":"you know, share our lives with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":506.04,"endTime":508.14,"body":"the people that we care about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":508.14,"endTime":511.35,"body":"and trust. And I remember when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":508.14,"endTime":511.35,"body":"told Kevin and Allison that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":511.35,"endTime":514.59,"body":"Jordan and I had kissed months"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":511.35,"endTime":514.59,"body":"later. And I remember like the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":514.59,"endTime":517.65,"body":"look of like concern on their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":514.59,"endTime":517.65,"body":"face that they like weren't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":517.65,"endTime":521.37,"body":"trying to have. But also they're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":517.65,"endTime":521.37,"body":"like really like honestly caring"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":521.37,"endTime":525.12,"body":"about me, just like this, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":521.37,"endTime":525.12,"body":"concerned caring luck. And I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":525.12,"endTime":527.52,"body":"glad that they of course had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":525.12,"endTime":527.52,"body":"their honest reactions. But you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":527.52,"endTime":530.4,"body":"know, they were involved in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":527.52,"endTime":530.4,"body":"every part of that process. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":530.4,"endTime":533.1,"body":"I was really grateful that I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":530.4,"endTime":533.1,"body":"constantly talking through what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":533.1,"endTime":533.76,"body":"was happening."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":534.65,"endTime":537.92,"body":"So my my whole time at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":534.65,"endTime":537.92,"body":"BYU during my undergrad, I did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":537.92,"endTime":541.01,"body":"not date at all, I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":537.92,"endTime":541.01,"body":"make sure like, I don't know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":541.01,"endTime":543.11,"body":"just wasn't ready. And also I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":541.01,"endTime":543.11,"body":"was at BYU. So it just made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":543.11,"endTime":545.96,"body":"sense to not date. And when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":543.11,"endTime":545.96,"body":"graduated, I was moving to New"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.96,"endTime":549.86,"body":"York City. And I wasn't like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.96,"endTime":549.86,"body":"really preparing on dating ever."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":550.16,"endTime":554.54,"body":"However, as I was graduating,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":550.16,"endTime":554.54,"body":"and like moving, I just felt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":554.54,"endTime":557.54,"body":"like I should. I felt like I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":554.54,"endTime":557.54,"body":"should start dating guys. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":557.54,"endTime":559.61,"body":"would look at other people in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":557.54,"endTime":559.61,"body":"relationships and be jealous of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":559.61,"endTime":562.58,"body":"them and be like, I wish I knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":559.61,"endTime":562.58,"body":"that what that was like. How can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":562.58,"endTime":565.49,"body":"they can have it but I can't?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":562.58,"endTime":565.49,"body":"And just like, I don't know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.49,"endTime":569.15,"body":"just kind of like was feeling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.49,"endTime":569.15,"body":"gross about being single. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.15,"endTime":572.15,"body":"was really like thinking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.15,"endTime":572.15,"body":"this and praying about whether"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.15,"endTime":576.2,"body":"or not I should try to date"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":572.15,"endTime":576.2,"body":"guys. And I was out to my family"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":576.2,"endTime":578.63,"body":"and friends and everyone in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":576.2,"endTime":578.63,"body":"life. So I like felt pretty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":578.63,"endTime":582.56,"body":"stable and confident. And I felt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":578.63,"endTime":582.56,"body":"like I knew who I was. And as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.56,"endTime":585.86,"body":"was praying I felt like I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.56,"endTime":585.86,"body":"should. And I remember like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":585.86,"endTime":589.85,"body":"feeling almost a little bit like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":585.86,"endTime":589.85,"body":"confused by that. I was I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":589.85,"endTime":592.31,"body":"like really God like you want me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":589.85,"endTime":592.31,"body":"to date. I thought that was like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":592.55,"endTime":595.43,"body":"wrong. Because I mean, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":592.55,"endTime":595.43,"body":"what everyone had told me my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":595.43,"endTime":599.72,"body":"whole life. But I really felt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":595.43,"endTime":599.72,"body":"like I should. So I ended up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":599.75,"endTime":602.48,"body":"moving In New York City, I got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":599.75,"endTime":602.48,"body":"my new Ward on the east side of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":602.48,"endTime":605.84,"body":"Manhattan. And I talked to my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":602.48,"endTime":605.84,"body":"Bishop. And I was like, Hey, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":605.84,"endTime":608.6,"body":"new in the ward and like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":605.84,"endTime":608.6,"body":"gay. And this is kind of what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.6,"endTime":611.87,"body":"been going on in my life. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.6,"endTime":611.87,"body":"feel like I should be dating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.87,"endTime":615.56,"body":"right now. And I'm going to, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.87,"endTime":615.56,"body":"I was kind of like, trying to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":615.56,"endTime":617.96,"body":"diplomatic, I was like, but that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":615.56,"endTime":617.96,"body":"being said, I'd love to be as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.96,"endTime":619.58,"body":"involved in the ward as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.96,"endTime":619.58,"body":"possible, I didn't really know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.58,"endTime":622.22,"body":"what to expect, you know, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.58,"endTime":622.22,"body":"kind of like fresh start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.25,"endTime":626.12,"body":"completely. And it was so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.25,"endTime":626.12,"body":"interesting, because he talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":626.12,"endTime":630.92,"body":"to me and he was like, Charlie,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":626.12,"endTime":630.92,"body":"you're 24, 25 years old. And God"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.92,"endTime":635.06,"body":"trust you. He knows you. I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.92,"endTime":635.06,"body":"it's wonderful that you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":635.06,"endTime":638.96,"body":"trying to gain more experience"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":635.06,"endTime":638.96,"body":"and figure out what this is and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":638.96,"endTime":641.72,"body":"how to move forward. And he just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":638.96,"endTime":641.72,"body":"gave me some counsel, he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":641.72,"endTime":645.02,"body":"like, make sure you stand in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":641.72,"endTime":645.02,"body":"holy places. And as long as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":645.02,"endTime":648.05,"body":"you're keeping the law of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":645.02,"endTime":648.05,"body":"chastity, then like full"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":648.05,"endTime":650.27,"body":"fellowship, you can do whatever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":648.05,"endTime":650.27,"body":"you want. Like, we're so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.3,"endTime":653.21,"body":"thrilled to have you in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.3,"endTime":653.21,"body":"ward. Regular advice, like, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.21,"endTime":658.34,"body":"you would give to anyone. Be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.21,"endTime":658.34,"body":"smart, be safe, be normal, be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.34,"endTime":661.04,"body":"prayerful about how to move"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.34,"endTime":661.04,"body":"forward. That's when I started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":661.04,"endTime":664.64,"body":"dating. That's when I started."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":661.04,"endTime":664.64,"body":"out. And by like I said, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":664.64,"endTime":667.43,"body":"first approach was to get on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":664.64,"endTime":667.43,"body":"dating apps. I quickly found out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":667.43,"endTime":670.4,"body":"which ones were, which ones were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":667.43,"endTime":670.4,"body":"which."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":672.89,"endTime":674.36,"body":"I've never been on one. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":672.89,"endTime":674.36,"body":"I can tell you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":674.75,"endTime":677.03,"body":"I feel like that's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":674.75,"endTime":677.03,"body":"separate conversation. But But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.03,"endTime":679.43,"body":"if you need to know you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.03,"endTime":679.43,"body":"email us and ask, which are most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":679.43,"endTime":679.55,"body":"safe."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":679.55,"endTime":682.28,"body":"Oh, don't don't don't do that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":679.55,"endTime":682.28,"body":"Do not do that. I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.28,"endTime":682.91,"body":"answer that email."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":684.17,"endTime":686.6,"body":"I think it's better to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":684.17,"endTime":686.6,"body":"not to."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":686.75,"endTime":689.0,"body":"Yeah. So what I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":686.75,"endTime":689.0,"body":"hearing you say is you felt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.0,"endTime":691.55,"body":"like, so originally, were saying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.0,"endTime":691.55,"body":"that you kind of felt gross for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":691.55,"endTime":694.22,"body":"being single. But this was about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":691.55,"endTime":694.22,"body":"you not wanting to, like you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":694.22,"endTime":697.34,"body":"wanted to be in a relationship"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":694.22,"endTime":697.34,"body":"as you felt prompted to date."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":697.41,"endTime":699.9,"body":"I felt prompted to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":697.41,"endTime":699.9,"body":"date. Yeah. And I felt like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":699.9,"endTime":702.21,"body":"needed it. I needed it in my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":699.9,"endTime":702.21,"body":"journey to figure out who I was."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":702.21,"endTime":704.7,"body":"Because how can I like really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":702.21,"endTime":704.7,"body":"understand what it was like to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":704.7,"endTime":708.66,"body":"be gay if I never was in a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":704.7,"endTime":708.66,"body":"relationship with someone, I say"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":708.66,"endTime":711.09,"body":"this all the time, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":708.66,"endTime":711.09,"body":"beat the dead horse that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":711.48,"endTime":715.53,"body":"homosexuality is not equal to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":711.48,"endTime":715.53,"body":"sex. Right? So there are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":715.56,"endTime":718.41,"body":"elements to relationships that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":715.56,"endTime":718.41,"body":"I've never felt or experienced,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":718.44,"endTime":721.62,"body":"obviously, physical elements,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":718.44,"endTime":721.62,"body":"but then like connection and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":721.62,"endTime":725.01,"body":"emotional connection, and having"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":721.62,"endTime":725.01,"body":"like a romantic partner, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":725.01,"endTime":727.89,"body":"someone who's interested in you,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":725.01,"endTime":727.89,"body":"and like, all of those things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":727.89,"endTime":730.5,"body":"that people take for granted. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":727.89,"endTime":730.5,"body":"think sometimes in a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":730.5,"endTime":733.26,"body":"heterosexual relationship. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":730.5,"endTime":733.26,"body":"want those."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":733.33,"endTime":737.05,"body":"Yeah, it's interesting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":733.33,"endTime":737.05,"body":"because I had dated women before"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":737.08,"endTime":739.12,"body":"Jordan, because Jordan, I had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":737.08,"endTime":739.12,"body":"relationship when I was like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.15,"endTime":743.47,"body":"29, and 30. So I, I you know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.15,"endTime":743.47,"body":"dated a lot of people. When"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":743.47,"endTime":746.35,"body":"Jordan and I started like, being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":743.47,"endTime":746.35,"body":"romantic. I was like, oh, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":746.35,"endTime":748.84,"body":"gosh, this is what this feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":746.35,"endTime":748.84,"body":"like. Like, this is why people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":748.84,"endTime":750.85,"body":"date.  Like, they don't do it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":748.84,"endTime":750.85,"body":"because they're supposed to they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":750.85,"endTime":751.87,"body":"do because it's wonderful."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":751.9,"endTime":752.23,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":752.0,"endTime":754.58,"body":"And I had just been dating"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":752.0,"endTime":754.58,"body":"because I was supposed to. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":754.58,"endTime":756.47,"body":"remember my roommate at the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":754.58,"endTime":756.47,"body":"time, he wasn't a member of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":756.47,"endTime":758.57,"body":"church. And he also didn't know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":756.47,"endTime":758.57,"body":"I was gay. And I did not want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":758.57,"endTime":760.76,"body":"have all of these conversations"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":758.57,"endTime":760.76,"body":"with him. And Jordan and I would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":760.76,"endTime":764.18,"body":"Skype all the time. But I didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":760.76,"endTime":764.18,"body":"want my roommate to hear what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":764.18,"endTime":766.76,"body":"was going on. So Jordan would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":764.18,"endTime":766.76,"body":"talk and I would just like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":766.82,"endTime":771.29,"body":"type. And and I don't know, this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":766.82,"endTime":771.29,"body":"doesn't make any sense. But it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":771.29,"endTime":773.84,"body":"was like really cute and really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":771.29,"endTime":773.84,"body":"fun. Like, I really loved doing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":773.84,"endTime":777.2,"body":"that. And, you know, I just want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":773.84,"endTime":777.2,"body":"to talk about like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":777.2,"endTime":782.21,"body":"you said you felt guided to do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":777.2,"endTime":782.21,"body":"this to date. And before Jordan"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":782.21,"endTime":784.64,"body":"and I had a relationship. So you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":782.21,"endTime":784.64,"body":"know, things kind of got a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":784.64,"endTime":788.6,"body":"little romantic in January, that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":784.64,"endTime":788.6,"body":"October General Conference,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":789.05,"endTime":792.05,"body":"before, I was feeling just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":789.05,"endTime":792.05,"body":"really lonely and really sad."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":792.05,"endTime":793.79,"body":"And just like wondering how I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":792.05,"endTime":793.79,"body":"was supposed to move forward"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":793.79,"endTime":796.94,"body":"with my life, and just like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":793.79,"endTime":796.94,"body":"really seeking for answers. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":796.94,"endTime":799.16,"body":"I just felt so strongly during"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":796.94,"endTime":799.16,"body":"that general conference that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":799.16,"endTime":801.08,"body":"something was going to happen,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":799.16,"endTime":801.08,"body":"like someone important was going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":801.08,"endTime":804.11,"body":"to come into my life that was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":801.08,"endTime":804.11,"body":"going to teach me. And I still"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":804.11,"endTime":806.33,"body":"believe that I was that Jordan"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":804.11,"endTime":806.33,"body":"and I were meant to have that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":806.33,"endTime":808.82,"body":"relationship. I think that that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":806.33,"endTime":808.82,"body":"that was an important part of my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":808.82,"endTime":811.61,"body":"process, you know, as we say,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":808.82,"endTime":811.61,"body":"all the time, like our journeys"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":811.61,"endTime":814.19,"body":"aren't anyone else's. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":811.61,"endTime":814.19,"body":"really felt like I needed to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":814.19,"endTime":815.03,"body":"in that relationship."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":815.48,"endTime":819.35,"body":"Yeah, I learned so much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":815.48,"endTime":819.35,"body":"about myself, and about God and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":819.35,"endTime":823.31,"body":"about other people as I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":819.35,"endTime":823.31,"body":"dating. And some of those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":823.31,"endTime":825.86,"body":"lessons were beautiful and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":823.31,"endTime":825.86,"body":"incredible experiences, and some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":825.86,"endTime":829.22,"body":"of them totally sucked. So let's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":825.86,"endTime":829.22,"body":"talk about them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.81,"endTime":831.85,"body":"Well, I must say, so you talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.81,"endTime":831.85,"body":"about what you said to your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.85,"endTime":834.58,"body":"Bishop. So I've only talked to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.85,"endTime":834.58,"body":"one Bishop about dating and it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.58,"endTime":837.61,"body":"was maybe two years after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.58,"endTime":837.61,"body":"Jordan. I was thinking, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":837.61,"endTime":840.88,"body":"know, I, I feel like I'm mature"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":837.61,"endTime":840.88,"body":"person. I would love to just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.88,"endTime":843.76,"body":"like, date, but not like get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.88,"endTime":843.76,"body":"married. I just would like to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.76,"endTime":846.82,"body":"date a little bit. So I talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.76,"endTime":846.82,"body":"to my Bishop about this. And he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.82,"endTime":849.07,"body":"said, well, you marry who you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.82,"endTime":849.07,"body":"date, and if you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.07,"endTime":853.36,"body":"marry a man, you shouldn't date"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.07,"endTime":853.36,"body":"a man. And I was crestfallen."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":853.36,"endTime":856.63,"body":"Like, I that's not the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":853.36,"endTime":856.63,"body":"word I was, I was ticked. I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":856.63,"endTime":858.7,"body":"really mad. Yeah. Because it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":856.63,"endTime":858.7,"body":"felt like he was telling me I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.7,"endTime":861.61,"body":"had to stay single. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.7,"endTime":861.61,"body":"that was really painful. And I,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.64,"endTime":864.55,"body":"you know, process that over the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.64,"endTime":864.55,"body":"next week or so. And, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":864.55,"endTime":867.94,"body":"realized, you know, I wasn't in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":864.55,"endTime":867.94,"body":"a place where I wanted to marry"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":867.94,"endTime":870.67,"body":"a man. Like, that wasn't what I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":867.94,"endTime":870.67,"body":"was, but I felt like I should be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":870.67,"endTime":873.73,"body":"working for and so I didn't, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":870.67,"endTime":873.73,"body":"didn't and the only person I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":873.73,"endTime":878.11,"body":"have ever dated was Jordan. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":873.73,"endTime":878.11,"body":"actually, quick side note, I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":878.11,"endTime":880.81,"body":"actually been on one date with a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":878.11,"endTime":880.81,"body":"guy that wasn't Jordan. Have I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":880.81,"endTime":881.32,"body":"told you the story?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":881.35,"endTime":882.01,"body":"Yeah, you told me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":882.82,"endTime":886.27,"body":"So we like met on this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":882.82,"endTime":886.27,"body":"gay liars dating Facebook group"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":886.27,"endTime":889.63,"body":"in Arizona. And we like, I like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":886.27,"endTime":889.63,"body":"commented on something he wrote."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.63,"endTime":891.82,"body":"And he lived up in Phoenix,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.63,"endTime":891.82,"body":"which is like two hours away"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":891.85,"endTime":895.24,"body":"from Tucson. And he's like, hey,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":891.85,"endTime":895.24,"body":"if you're ever up in this area,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":895.27,"endTime":897.34,"body":"I would love to take you out to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":895.27,"endTime":897.34,"body":"dinner and I was like, well just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":897.34,"endTime":899.86,"body":"so you know, like I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":897.34,"endTime":899.86,"body":"dating, but if you want to buy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.86,"endTime":901.12,"body":"me a meal. Why not?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":901.72,"endTime":902.68,"body":"Oh my gosh!"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":903.37,"endTime":905.74,"body":"I was I was like, I know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":903.37,"endTime":905.74,"body":"maybe that was terrible of me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":905.77,"endTime":907.57,"body":"But I was like very clear about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":905.77,"endTime":907.57,"body":"my intention."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":907.59,"endTime":908.7,"body":"I hope he listens to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":907.59,"endTime":908.7,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":910.86,"endTime":912.81,"body":"And and so I was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":910.86,"endTime":912.81,"body":"Well, I'm actually going up to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":912.81,"endTime":915.81,"body":"the temple because there wasn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":912.81,"endTime":915.81,"body":"a temple in Tucson then. So if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":915.81,"endTime":917.79,"body":"you want to meet up after that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":915.81,"endTime":917.79,"body":"I'd be happy to and he's like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":917.79,"endTime":919.95,"body":"great. That sounds great. It was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":917.79,"endTime":919.95,"body":"a Saturday was like, oh, that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":919.95,"endTime":921.33,"body":"Saturday is Valentine's Day."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":921.87,"endTime":923.7,"body":"Valentine's Day date"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":921.87,"endTime":923.7,"body":"after the temple."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":923.73,"endTime":924.27,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":924.33,"endTime":925.35,"body":"And that's Ben"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":924.33,"endTime":925.35,"body":"Schilaty."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":925.86,"endTime":928.68,"body":"So he took, he took me out"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":925.86,"endTime":928.68,"body":"to pizza, like fancy pizza"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":928.68,"endTime":930.93,"body":"place. And it was it was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":928.68,"endTime":930.93,"body":"delicious. But we were talking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":930.93,"endTime":932.94,"body":"He's like, so who's your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":930.93,"endTime":932.94,"body":"celebrity crush? I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":932.94,"endTime":936.75,"body":"remember who I said. But he said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":932.94,"endTime":936.75,"body":"his celebrity crush was Anderson"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":936.75,"endTime":939.33,"body":"Cooper. Like, oh my gosh, he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":936.75,"endTime":939.33,"body":"likes me because I have parted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":939.36,"endTime":939.96,"body":"gray hair."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":940.41,"endTime":943.08,"body":"Did you know that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":940.41,"endTime":943.08,"body":"should I say this? Anderson"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":943.08,"endTime":944.61,"body":"Cooper slid into the DMS once."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":944.67,"endTime":945.15,"body":"What?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":945.18,"endTime":946.5,"body":"To my DMs once. You didn't know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":945.18,"endTime":946.5,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":946.56,"endTime":948.12,"body":"Because he wanted you to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":946.56,"endTime":948.12,"body":"on his show."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":948.33,"endTime":950.19,"body":"No, he was just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":948.33,"endTime":950.19,"body":"chatting me up."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":950.27,"endTime":950.78,"body":"Oh. That's impressive."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":950.99,"endTime":955.13,"body":"I don't know what his"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":950.99,"endTime":955.13,"body":"intentions were. No, really. He"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":955.13,"endTime":957.38,"body":"was just like, congratulations"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":955.13,"endTime":957.38,"body":"coming out, blah, blah. Let me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":957.38,"endTime":959.42,"body":"know like if you need help or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":957.38,"endTime":959.42,"body":"anything."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":959.48,"endTime":961.19,"body":"I think the most famous"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":959.48,"endTime":961.19,"body":"person who's ever slid into my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":961.19,"endTime":961.91,"body":"DMs was you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":963.71,"endTime":964.73,"body":"I was very flattered."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":965.54,"endTime":967.46,"body":"So even though I was like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":965.54,"endTime":967.46,"body":"very clear, like, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":967.46,"endTime":970.67,"body":"looking for anything romantic,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":967.46,"endTime":970.67,"body":"but you can buy me dinner. As we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":970.67,"endTime":972.71,"body":"were like driving later, he like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":970.67,"endTime":972.71,"body":"asked if you could hold my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":972.71,"endTime":976.07,"body":"hands. And I was like, no, thank"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":972.71,"endTime":976.07,"body":"you. He like took me to this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":976.07,"endTime":978.74,"body":"viewpoint. So we're like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":976.07,"endTime":978.74,"body":"standing there, like looking at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":978.74,"endTime":981.5,"body":"the view of the city. And he's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":978.74,"endTime":981.5,"body":"like, this is wonderful. The"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":981.5,"endTime":983.24,"body":"only thing that would make it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":981.5,"endTime":983.24,"body":"nicer is if I could put my arm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":983.24,"endTime":986.33,"body":"around you. And I was like, no,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":983.24,"endTime":986.33,"body":"thank you. I was probably"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":986.33,"endTime":989.99,"body":"terrible. So that was like the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":986.33,"endTime":989.99,"body":"one date I like planned on."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":990.98,"endTime":995.15,"body":"So I have been okay,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":990.98,"endTime":995.15,"body":"confession time, I've been on a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":995.15,"endTime":999.05,"body":"lot of dates, with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":995.15,"endTime":999.05,"body":"different people. Like the whole"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":999.05,"endTime":1003.64,"body":"time I was living in New York, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":999.05,"endTime":1003.64,"body":"got asked out a lot. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1003.64,"endTime":1006.34,"body":"so and that was kind of what I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1003.64,"endTime":1006.34,"body":"wanted. I wanted to like get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1006.34,"endTime":1009.01,"body":"experience dating different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1006.34,"endTime":1009.01,"body":"people. And just like I didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1009.01,"endTime":1011.89,"body":"know, like, I had no idea like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1009.01,"endTime":1011.89,"body":"what to do or what I wanted. It"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1011.89,"endTime":1015.94,"body":"almost felt like safer to date"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1011.89,"endTime":1015.94,"body":"people at more of a casual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1015.94,"endTime":1018.76,"body":"level, like getting to know you,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1015.94,"endTime":1018.76,"body":"rather than looking for like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1018.76,"endTime":1022.66,"body":"boyfriend. So initially, that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1018.76,"endTime":1022.66,"body":"how that's how I started. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1022.66,"endTime":1025.78,"body":"remember I was talking to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1022.66,"endTime":1025.78,"body":"Rachel, who we actually just had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1025.78,"endTime":1027.43,"body":"on the previous episode, my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1025.78,"endTime":1027.43,"body":"cousin..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1027.43,"endTime":1028.3,"body":"Cousin slash best friend."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1028.0,"endTime":1031.27,"body":"My cousin slash best"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1028.0,"endTime":1031.27,"body":"friend. And there's this guy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1031.27,"endTime":1034.45,"body":"that was texting me, he asked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1031.27,"endTime":1034.45,"body":"for my number. It's weird"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1034.45,"endTime":1037.99,"body":"texting. And he, he asked me to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1034.45,"endTime":1037.99,"body":"like go out with him on a Sunday"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1037.99,"endTime":1043.18,"body":"evening. And I just felt weird"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1037.99,"endTime":1043.18,"body":"about that. Because one thing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1043.18,"endTime":1046.69,"body":"about dating for me is because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1043.18,"endTime":1046.69,"body":"was kind of like stepping into"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1047.14,"endTime":1050.98,"body":"an area that kind of scared me a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1047.14,"endTime":1050.98,"body":"little bit, and had always been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1050.98,"endTime":1056.11,"body":"like, painted as not religious"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1050.98,"endTime":1056.11,"body":"to me and made me like even more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1056.11,"endTime":1060.28,"body":"religious. Because I was dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1056.11,"endTime":1060.28,"body":"I was like, even more church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1060.28,"endTime":1063.01,"body":"involved. I was trying to make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1060.28,"endTime":1063.01,"body":"sure I did a really good job"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1063.01,"endTime":1065.38,"body":"because I wanted the spirit with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1063.01,"endTime":1065.38,"body":"me. Actually, I'm going to tell"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1065.38,"endTime":1069.76,"body":"this first, Ben called me once"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1065.38,"endTime":1069.76,"body":"when I was in New York. And we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1069.76,"endTime":1071.71,"body":"were just catching up. And we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1069.76,"endTime":1071.71,"body":"known each other for like, what,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1071.71,"endTime":1073.99,"body":"two years at that point? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1071.71,"endTime":1073.99,"body":"maybe a year and a half..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1073.96,"endTime":1076.06,"body":"We'd been like friends in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1073.96,"endTime":1076.06,"body":"person for a year. And then you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1076.06,"endTime":1076.63,"body":"moved away."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1076.96,"endTime":1077.11,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1077.11,"endTime":1078.49,"body":"Somehow we ended up like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1077.11,"endTime":1078.49,"body":"staying in touch."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1078.52,"endTime":1078.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1079.33,"endTime":1081.1,"body":"Which I did not expect"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1079.33,"endTime":1081.1,"body":"actually. I thought you'd just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1081.1,"endTime":1082.3,"body":"like move away and we would lose"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1081.1,"endTime":1082.3,"body":"touch."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1082.28,"endTime":1085.07,"body":"So we were chatting."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1082.28,"endTime":1085.07,"body":"And I was telling him and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1085.07,"endTime":1088.46,"body":"like, yeah, I started dating and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1085.07,"endTime":1088.46,"body":"blah, blah, blah. And he talks"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1088.46,"endTime":1092.0,"body":"to me, and he's like, so how's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1088.46,"endTime":1092.0,"body":"it been leaving the church? And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1092.0,"endTime":1096.32,"body":"I was like, what? And he was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1092.0,"endTime":1096.32,"body":"like, you know, like, you're not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1096.32,"endTime":1098.18,"body":"going to church anymore. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1096.32,"endTime":1098.18,"body":"was like, where did you hear"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1098.18,"endTime":1101.06,"body":"that? Like, who's telling you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1098.18,"endTime":1101.06,"body":"this? Like, I'm second counselor"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1101.06,"endTime":1103.97,"body":"in the Elders Quorum Presidenc"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1101.06,"endTime":1103.97,"body":". He was like, well, I ju"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1103.97,"endTime":1105.53,"body":"t figured that you're datin"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1103.97,"endTime":1105.53,"body":", you're not going to chur"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1105.53,"endTime":1109.76,"body":"h any more. And I was really, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1105.53,"endTime":1109.76,"body":"as hurt by that. And I was li"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1109.76,"endTime":1113.9,"body":"e, shocked and disappointed. An"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1109.76,"endTime":1113.9,"body":"I was like, Ben like, you kno"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1113.9,"endTime":1117.23,"body":"me. Church is important to m"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1113.9,"endTime":1117.23,"body":". And like I envision a lif"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1117.23,"endTime":1120.44,"body":"in the church being invo"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1117.23,"endTime":1120.44,"body":"ved in church, no matter if I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1120.44,"endTime":1124.25,"body":"ingle, or with a man, like that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1120.44,"endTime":1124.25,"body":"s just like a part, like, my s"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1124.25,"endTime":1127.13,"body":"irituality is something that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1124.25,"endTime":1127.13,"body":"I always plan on. And it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1127.13,"endTime":1129.35,"body":"ust really interesting to me t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1127.13,"endTime":1129.35,"body":"at like, even someone who real"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1129.35,"endTime":1132.38,"body":"y knows me, and I have like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1129.35,"endTime":1132.38,"body":"been a part of my gay jour"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1132.38,"endTime":1136.13,"body":"ey to that point, still, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1132.38,"endTime":1136.13,"body":"none of us are absolved from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1136.13,"endTime":1139.01,"body":"living in this idea that it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1136.13,"endTime":1139.01,"body":"one or the other. Like, even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1139.04,"endTime":1143.09,"body":"Ben, even me, sometimes we get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1139.04,"endTime":1143.09,"body":"aught up in that mindset."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1143.63,"endTime":1145.64,"body":"Yeah. And like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1143.63,"endTime":1145.64,"body":"apologize."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1145.67,"endTime":1146.33,"body":"I forgive you."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1146.6,"endTime":1150.38,"body":"I didn't mean to make so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1146.6,"endTime":1150.38,"body":"many assumptions, but I just, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1150.38,"endTime":1154.1,"body":"don't think I'd really known"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1150.38,"endTime":1154.1,"body":"many anyone, or many people who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1154.22,"endTime":1156.95,"body":"dated will staying in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1154.22,"endTime":1156.95,"body":"church, and most people while"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1156.95,"endTime":1158.72,"body":"they dated, they would like take"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1156.95,"endTime":1158.72,"body":"a break from the church at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1158.72,"endTime":1159.2,"body":"least."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1159.3,"endTime":1162.06,"body":"Right. And I will say"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1159.3,"endTime":1162.06,"body":"that, like, my geographical"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1162.06,"endTime":1165.75,"body":"location allowed me to do that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1162.06,"endTime":1165.75,"body":"really seamlessly because my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1165.75,"endTime":1169.62,"body":"Bishop was supportive, everyone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1165.75,"endTime":1169.62,"body":"else in in church was like, so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1169.62,"endTime":1172.56,"body":"supportive. I, down the road, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1169.62,"endTime":1172.56,"body":"ended up dating someone for a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1172.56,"endTime":1174.6,"body":"while, and I took him to church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1172.56,"endTime":1174.6,"body":"a few times with me, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1174.6,"endTime":1178.26,"body":"everyone just loved him. And it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1174.6,"endTime":1178.26,"body":"was a wonderful experience. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1178.26,"endTime":1182.34,"body":"I'm gonna backtrack to this guy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1178.26,"endTime":1182.34,"body":"asked me out for a Sunday and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1182.34,"endTime":1184.5,"body":"called Rachel and I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1182.34,"endTime":1184.5,"body":"hey, like, this guy asked me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1184.5,"endTime":1186.93,"body":"out. And he's cute. And like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1184.5,"endTime":1186.93,"body":"it's, we seem to like be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1186.93,"endTime":1189.75,"body":"connecting well, but I feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1186.93,"endTime":1189.75,"body":"really weird because it's on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1189.75,"endTime":1192.06,"body":"Sunday. And I was like, I know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1189.75,"endTime":1192.06,"body":"that's dumb, because like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1192.06,"endTime":1195.87,"body":"going on a date with a guy. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1192.06,"endTime":1195.87,"body":"so like, maybe I'm already"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1195.87,"endTime":1198.12,"body":"breaking a rule, but I feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1195.87,"endTime":1198.12,"body":"weird about doing that on the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1198.12,"endTime":1201.0,"body":"Sabbath, which is a day that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1198.12,"endTime":1201.0,"body":"usually try like keep holding"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1201.0,"endTime":1204.39,"body":"and observe. And she gave me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1201.0,"endTime":1204.39,"body":"some incredible advice. She was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1204.39,"endTime":1207.36,"body":"like, Charlie, why would you do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1204.39,"endTime":1207.36,"body":"anything differently because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1207.36,"endTime":1211.23,"body":"you're dating guys, as you would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1207.36,"endTime":1211.23,"body":"had you been dating girls? Or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1211.23,"endTime":1214.2,"body":"like, if your brother was dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1211.23,"endTime":1214.2,"body":"someone, like, why don't you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1214.2,"endTime":1216.84,"body":"hold yourself to those same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1214.2,"endTime":1216.84,"body":"standards? And then she was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1216.84,"endTime":1219.12,"body":"like, and also, if you really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1216.84,"endTime":1219.12,"body":"are trying to, like, have the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1219.12,"endTime":1221.28,"body":"spirit with you and figure out"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1219.12,"endTime":1221.28,"body":"what your path should be,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1221.46,"endTime":1224.55,"body":"shouldn't you like, try to have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1221.46,"endTime":1224.55,"body":"the spirit with you, as you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1224.55,"endTime":1227.79,"body":"figure out your path? And for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1224.55,"endTime":1227.79,"body":"some reason, it just clicked. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1227.79,"endTime":1231.45,"body":"was like, yeah, like, why am I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1227.79,"endTime":1231.45,"body":"using dating apps when I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1231.45,"endTime":1234.39,"body":"wouldn't want my brother to do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1231.45,"endTime":1234.39,"body":"that? Um, except for I guess,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1234.39,"endTime":1236.85,"body":"mutual now is popular and safe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1234.39,"endTime":1236.85,"body":"or whatever."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1236.85,"endTime":1238.17,"body":"People get in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1236.85,"endTime":1238.17,"body":"trouble on mutual too."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1238.81,"endTime":1241.48,"body":"And and I was like, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1238.81,"endTime":1241.48,"body":"why would I be like, doing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1241.48,"endTime":1244.87,"body":"things on Sunday? And like, why"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1241.48,"endTime":1244.87,"body":"would I like break my rules?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1244.87,"endTime":1248.29,"body":"Just because I'm dating a guy?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1244.87,"endTime":1248.29,"body":"Like, why wouldn't I just like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1248.35,"endTime":1250.99,"body":"keep the same standards I had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1248.35,"endTime":1250.99,"body":"for myself. And that was a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1250.99,"endTime":1254.2,"body":"really eye opening moment for me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1250.99,"endTime":1254.2,"body":"that I could. In New York City,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1254.2,"endTime":1256.6,"body":"that was actually really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1254.2,"endTime":1256.6,"body":"difficult to do, especially"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1256.6,"endTime":1258.85,"body":"because I mean, I dated some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1256.6,"endTime":1258.85,"body":"people who were members of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1258.85,"endTime":1261.76,"body":"church, but a lot of them were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1258.85,"endTime":1261.76,"body":"just like, random people I met."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1261.85,"endTime":1265.27,"body":"I mean, there's a ton of gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1261.85,"endTime":1265.27,"body":"people in Manhattan. So like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1267.01,"endTime":1270.07,"body":"I'm getting blush, because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1267.01,"endTime":1270.07,"body":"almost said that because guys"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1270.07,"endTime":1273.01,"body":"asked for my number all the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1270.07,"endTime":1273.01,"body":"time. And I don't want to seem"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1273.01,"endTime":1273.19,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1273.19,"endTime":1275.2,"body":"We get it, Charlie. People"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1273.19,"endTime":1275.2,"body":"think you're hot."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1275.2,"endTime":1278.23,"body":"But it's true. A lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1275.2,"endTime":1278.23,"body":"people asked me out. And I found"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1278.23,"endTime":1281.62,"body":"it, like, easy to find people to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1278.23,"endTime":1281.62,"body":"date. But I was like, why would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1281.62,"endTime":1285.79,"body":"I? Why would I not do this the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1281.62,"endTime":1285.79,"body":"way I want to do this? Like if I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1285.79,"endTime":1288.28,"body":"was looking for a girl today, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1285.79,"endTime":1288.28,"body":"wouldn't be going to a bar or to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1288.28,"endTime":1290.77,"body":"a club or getting on Tinder."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1288.28,"endTime":1290.77,"body":"That's just not what I would do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1290.95,"endTime":1292.24,"body":"So why would I do that with a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1290.95,"endTime":1292.24,"body":"guy?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1292.4,"endTime":1294.02,"body":"Yeah, that's really good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1292.4,"endTime":1294.02,"body":"advice. Like, like your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1294.02,"endTime":1296.54,"body":"standards, they should come"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1294.02,"endTime":1296.54,"body":"internally, and they don't need"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1296.54,"endTime":1299.66,"body":"to change just because you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1296.54,"endTime":1299.66,"body":"entering into a new arena."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1299.99,"endTime":1303.98,"body":"Ben, did you feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1299.99,"endTime":1303.98,"body":"unprepared? Or like immature"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1304.16,"endTime":1305.42,"body":"with your feelings?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1305.6,"endTime":1309.5,"body":"Oh, 100%. I mean, I still"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1305.6,"endTime":1309.5,"body":"think if I were to date now, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1309.5,"endTime":1312.41,"body":"would be in like a massive gay"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1309.5,"endTime":1312.41,"body":"adolescence. Yeah, I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1312.41,"endTime":1315.53,"body":"haven't, like the last time I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1312.41,"endTime":1315.53,"body":"liked someone after like knowing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1315.53,"endTime":1318.17,"body":"him for a week I was like, we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1315.53,"endTime":1318.17,"body":"gonna get married, which is just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1318.17,"endTime":1320.84,"body":"absurd. But I'm just like so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1318.17,"endTime":1320.84,"body":"immature when it comes to like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1320.84,"endTime":1321.98,"body":"romantic relationships."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1322.01,"endTime":1323.66,"body":"Remind us what the gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1322.01,"endTime":1323.66,"body":"adolescence is."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1323.69,"endTime":1326.78,"body":"So straight people growing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1323.69,"endTime":1326.78,"body":"up, they get to date and have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1326.78,"endTime":1329.66,"body":"crushes and talk about all those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1326.78,"endTime":1329.66,"body":"things when they're youth. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1329.66,"endTime":1331.73,"body":"you know, they their parents are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1329.66,"endTime":1331.73,"body":"involved and their peers are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1331.73,"endTime":1336.14,"body":"involved. But since we don't get"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1331.73,"endTime":1336.14,"body":"to do that, as LGBTQ folks, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1336.14,"endTime":1339.14,"body":"don't get to have that same"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1336.14,"endTime":1339.14,"body":"maturing experience of like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1339.38,"endTime":1341.87,"body":"knowing that just because you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1339.38,"endTime":1341.87,"body":"twitterpated doesn't mean that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1341.87,"endTime":1344.84,"body":"you are actually like in love"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1341.87,"endTime":1344.84,"body":"with the person like, so we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1344.84,"endTime":1347.69,"body":"don't get to have those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1344.84,"endTime":1347.69,"body":"experiences. And so when we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1347.72,"endTime":1350.75,"body":"start dating later in life, it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1347.72,"endTime":1350.75,"body":"kind of like, we're adolescents"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1350.75,"endTime":1355.4,"body":"or teens, but real adults. So if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1350.75,"endTime":1355.4,"body":"I were to date, I'd basically be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1355.4,"endTime":1356.42,"body":"like a 16 year old."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1356.54,"endTime":1358.82,"body":"Yeah, I found that very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1356.54,"endTime":1358.82,"body":"difficult for me. I was I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.82,"endTime":1361.25,"body":"basically I was like a sixth"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.82,"endTime":1361.25,"body":"grader. And I was in a man's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1361.25,"endTime":1365.78,"body":"world. And I had like, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1361.25,"endTime":1365.78,"body":"learning curve was especially"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1365.78,"endTime":1369.17,"body":"like, it had to be quick. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1365.78,"endTime":1369.17,"body":"then also, like, really hurt my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1369.17,"endTime":1372.8,"body":"feelings a lot, because I just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1369.17,"endTime":1372.8,"body":"felt stupid. And I think being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1372.83,"endTime":1376.37,"body":"out while you're dating is so so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1372.83,"endTime":1376.37,"body":"helpful. Like, I'm a huge"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1376.37,"endTime":1378.74,"body":"advocate for that, because I had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1376.37,"endTime":1378.74,"body":"other people I could talk to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1378.74,"endTime":1382.31,"body":"about it. And there were so many"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1378.74,"endTime":1382.31,"body":"there were so many times when I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1382.31,"endTime":1385.4,"body":"accidentally fell into like, a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1382.31,"endTime":1385.4,"body":"situation that I didn't want to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1385.4,"endTime":1388.31,"body":"be in because I was just naive."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1385.4,"endTime":1388.31,"body":"And I didn't know other people's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1388.31,"endTime":1390.71,"body":"expectations. I didn't know the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1388.31,"endTime":1390.71,"body":"way I would feel about different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1390.71,"endTime":1394.58,"body":"things. I feel like a healthy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1390.71,"endTime":1394.58,"body":"like, introduction to dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1394.58,"endTime":1397.19,"body":"experience is not a luxury that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1394.58,"endTime":1397.19,"body":"I ever had."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1397.28,"endTime":1397.7,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1397.73,"endTime":1401.84,"body":"So like, whereas for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1397.73,"endTime":1401.84,"body":"straight people in the church,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1401.9,"endTime":1403.91,"body":"there's like, For the Strength"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1401.9,"endTime":1403.91,"body":"of Youth, and there's like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1403.91,"endTime":1406.04,"body":"guidelines set, and then you go"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1403.91,"endTime":1406.04,"body":"on..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1406.31,"endTime":1408.17,"body":"You can meet at a steak"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1406.31,"endTime":1408.17,"body":"dance and go on group date."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1408.2,"endTime":1410.51,"body":"Exactly. And like at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1408.2,"endTime":1410.51,"body":"16, you go on double dates and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1410.51,"endTime":1412.82,"body":"group dates, and then 18 maybe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1410.51,"endTime":1412.82,"body":"you can go on your first single,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1412.85,"endTime":1413.87,"body":"like, those are the..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1413.87,"endTime":1415.76,"body":"Then you can go on a formal date"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1413.87,"endTime":1415.76,"body":"and your parents take a picture"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1415.76,"endTime":1416.18,"body":"of you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1416.24,"endTime":1420.74,"body":"Right. But for me, I'm like 25"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1416.24,"endTime":1420.74,"body":"now, and I'm in New York, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1420.74,"endTime":1424.55,"body":"I'm dumb, like I have no"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1420.74,"endTime":1424.55,"body":"experience in like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1424.55,"endTime":1426.53,"body":"know, I felt really overwhelmed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1424.55,"endTime":1426.53,"body":"a lot."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1426.84,"endTime":1429.06,"body":"And also, like, I like to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1426.84,"endTime":1429.06,"body":"think I'm a fairly emotionally"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1429.06,"endTime":1432.72,"body":"mature person. Feel free to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1429.06,"endTime":1432.72,"body":"correct that. But you know, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1432.72,"endTime":1435.42,"body":"have different kinds of maturity"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1432.72,"endTime":1435.42,"body":"and since I haven't had that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1435.42,"endTime":1436.71,"body":"experience I just don't..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1437.05,"endTime":1441.34,"body":"Exactly like I, I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1437.05,"endTime":1441.34,"body":"like working it a very fast"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1441.34,"endTime":1444.1,"body":"paced Job had like, graduated, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1441.34,"endTime":1444.1,"body":"had a lot of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1444.16,"endTime":1447.22,"body":"accomplishments, and I consider"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1444.16,"endTime":1447.22,"body":"myself also emotionally mature"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1447.22,"endTime":1451.18,"body":"and like intelligent, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1447.22,"endTime":1451.18,"body":"romantically I had no context"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1451.18,"endTime":1453.85,"body":"for what I would even feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1451.18,"endTime":1453.85,"body":"the first time that I held"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1453.85,"endTime":1456.79,"body":"someone's hand or kissed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1453.85,"endTime":1456.79,"body":"someone. I just didn't know what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1456.79,"endTime":1457.42,"body":"would happen."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1457.78,"endTime":1460.09,"body":"Yeah, I feel like the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1457.78,"endTime":1460.09,"body":"answer to the question. Can I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1460.09,"endTime":1462.61,"body":"date? And the answer is, you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1460.09,"endTime":1462.61,"body":"gonna be terrible at it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1463.06,"endTime":1466.57,"body":"Or can it bad at it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1463.06,"endTime":1466.57,"body":"That being said, there was some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1466.57,"endTime":1469.63,"body":"really, really beautiful things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1466.57,"endTime":1469.63,"body":"about it. Like, I've been going"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1469.63,"endTime":1472.45,"body":"on dates with a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1469.63,"endTime":1472.45,"body":"people and mostly like, first"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1472.45,"endTime":1475.78,"body":"dates, you know, meet someone,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1472.45,"endTime":1475.78,"body":"whatever. I had a really good"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1475.78,"endTime":1479.17,"body":"first date with this, this one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1475.78,"endTime":1479.17,"body":"guy in particular. I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1479.17,"endTime":1481.39,"body":"expecting it to go terribly. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1479.17,"endTime":1481.39,"body":"maybe that's the reason I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1481.39,"endTime":1484.36,"body":"thought it was so good because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1481.39,"endTime":1484.36,"body":"my expectations were so low. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1484.36,"endTime":1486.46,"body":"when it was over, I called one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1484.36,"endTime":1486.46,"body":"of my friends as I was getting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1486.46,"endTime":1488.53,"body":"on the subway and I was just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1486.46,"endTime":1488.53,"body":"like, I just gush, and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1488.53,"endTime":1492.61,"body":"like, oh, he's so cute and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1488.53,"endTime":1492.61,"body":"think he likes me. And I kept"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1492.61,"endTime":1495.37,"body":"going on dates with him. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1492.61,"endTime":1495.37,"body":"remember it was probably like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1495.37,"endTime":1500.41,"body":"our fourth or fifth date. He, he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1495.37,"endTime":1500.41,"body":"was kind of like scared to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1500.41,"endTime":1505.0,"body":"forward with me because I was so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1500.41,"endTime":1505.0,"body":"religious, which I understand"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1505.0,"endTime":1508.81,"body":"and actually respect that about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1505.0,"endTime":1508.81,"body":"him looking back. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1508.81,"endTime":1512.89,"body":"remember, we were like walking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1508.81,"endTime":1512.89,"body":"down by the river. And it was so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1512.89,"endTime":1515.5,"body":"beautiful. We were looking over"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1512.89,"endTime":1515.5,"body":"the city, and he reached out and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1515.53,"endTime":1518.02,"body":"grabbed my hand and I was like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1515.53,"endTime":1518.02,"body":"holding a guy's hand."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1518.02,"endTime":1519.01,"body":"Ahhh, in public?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1519.0,"endTime":1522.81,"body":"In public. And first of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1519.0,"endTime":1522.81,"body":"all, I never expected I would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1522.81,"endTime":1526.29,"body":"ever be able to hold a guy's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1522.81,"endTime":1526.29,"body":"hand in general, a much less in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1526.29,"endTime":1528.96,"body":"like a public setting and not be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1526.29,"endTime":1528.96,"body":"scared. Like, I just felt so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1528.96,"endTime":1532.26,"body":"comfortable. And like, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1528.96,"endTime":1532.26,"body":"of where I was in New York, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1532.26,"endTime":1534.48,"body":"just didn't feel like like, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1532.26,"endTime":1534.48,"body":"was just normal. Like, no one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1534.48,"endTime":1537.9,"body":"was like, gawking at us or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1534.48,"endTime":1537.9,"body":"thinking anything. And it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1537.9,"endTime":1546.39,"body":"like my heart, like, swelled. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1537.9,"endTime":1546.39,"body":"felt so just like, giddy. I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1546.39,"endTime":1550.29,"body":"so giddy. And then we were over"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1546.39,"endTime":1550.29,"body":"on his side of town. So like, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1550.29,"endTime":1554.52,"body":"walked to his place, and we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1550.29,"endTime":1554.52,"body":"kissed before he went up. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1554.52,"endTime":1558.78,"body":"then I got on the subway"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1554.52,"endTime":1558.78,"body":"afterwards. And I had kissed a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1558.78,"endTime":1562.02,"body":"couple people before that. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1558.78,"endTime":1562.02,"body":"this was like the first kiss"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1562.02,"endTime":1567.06,"body":"that like, meant something that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1562.02,"endTime":1567.06,"body":"was real to me. And it was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1567.06,"endTime":1571.14,"body":"the first time I ever felt like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1567.06,"endTime":1571.14,"body":"a human. Like, I felt like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1571.14,"endTime":1576.54,"body":"real person with a heart that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1571.14,"endTime":1576.54,"body":"beats and with feelings. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1576.54,"endTime":1580.41,"body":"didn't feel like an outcast. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1576.54,"endTime":1580.41,"body":"didn't feel like some sort of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1580.41,"endTime":1584.73,"body":"freak, I just felt like, like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1580.41,"endTime":1584.73,"body":"human. And it was so, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1584.73,"endTime":1589.59,"body":"beautiful. And nothing about it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1584.73,"endTime":1589.59,"body":"felt wrong or off. It just felt"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1589.59,"endTime":1591.72,"body":"really comfortable. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1589.59,"endTime":1591.72,"body":"happy."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1591.81,"endTime":1594.12,"body":"Yeah. And thank you for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1591.81,"endTime":1594.12,"body":"sharing that, Charlie, I had a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1594.12,"endTime":1595.77,"body":"very similar experience. Like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1594.12,"endTime":1595.77,"body":"when I kissed Jordan, I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1595.77,"endTime":1598.62,"body":"like, Oh my gosh, I get it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1595.77,"endTime":1598.62,"body":"Like, I get why people do this."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1598.65,"endTime":1601.89,"body":"Like before, I didn't get it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1598.65,"endTime":1601.89,"body":"And I really did feel like more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1601.92,"endTime":1603.81,"body":"more like a human. And I also"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1601.92,"endTime":1603.81,"body":"want to say, you know, there are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1603.81,"endTime":1606.21,"body":"people who identify as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1603.81,"endTime":1606.21,"body":"aromantic, who have no desire to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1606.21,"endTime":1608.67,"body":"kiss someone. And they're, of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1606.21,"endTime":1608.67,"body":"course, fully human. But for me,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1608.67,"endTime":1612.18,"body":"like for my human experience, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1608.67,"endTime":1612.18,"body":"think kissing someone I really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1612.18,"endTime":1615.78,"body":"liked was super important to me,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1612.18,"endTime":1615.78,"body":"like, understand so much about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1615.78,"endTime":1619.41,"body":"myself. And just like what it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1615.78,"endTime":1619.41,"body":"means to be to be like Ben, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1619.77,"endTime":1621.48,"body":"you know, and that said, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1619.77,"endTime":1621.48,"body":"if you take out the next logical"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1621.48,"endTime":1624.6,"body":"conclusion, you know, there are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1621.48,"endTime":1624.6,"body":"things I still don't understand,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1624.6,"endTime":1627.69,"body":"because I've never had sex with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1624.6,"endTime":1627.69,"body":"anyone or been married. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1627.69,"endTime":1629.76,"body":"like, been in a long term"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1627.69,"endTime":1629.76,"body":"partnership like that. There's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1629.76,"endTime":1633.69,"body":"some things you can just only"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1629.76,"endTime":1633.69,"body":"learn in some ways. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1633.69,"endTime":1635.7,"body":"and I you know, and that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1633.69,"endTime":1635.7,"body":"something I recognize."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1636.08,"endTime":1637.49,"body":"Yeah, and one thing I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1636.08,"endTime":1637.49,"body":"learned out of that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1637.49,"endTime":1640.28,"body":"relationship, I ended up dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1637.49,"endTime":1640.28,"body":"that guy for a while, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1640.28,"endTime":1643.94,"body":"it's so interesting to look back"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1640.28,"endTime":1643.94,"body":"and see the gay adolescence in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1643.94,"endTime":1648.11,"body":"full force as I reflect on that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1643.94,"endTime":1648.11,"body":"relationship, I was having so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1648.11,"endTime":1652.34,"body":"many validating exciting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1648.11,"endTime":1652.34,"body":"experiences. And as I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1652.37,"endTime":1656.15,"body":"opening up and doing new things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1652.37,"endTime":1656.15,"body":"like like, like holding his hand"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1656.15,"endTime":1660.2,"body":"in public for the first time,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1656.15,"endTime":1660.2,"body":"that was me, like living and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1660.2,"endTime":1662.51,"body":"thriving, and it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1660.2,"endTime":1662.51,"body":"exhilarating and fun, and it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1662.51,"endTime":1666.11,"body":"new. And I felt safe as I did"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1662.51,"endTime":1666.11,"body":"it. And so all of those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1666.11,"endTime":1670.49,"body":"feelings, like I was shedding"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1666.11,"endTime":1670.49,"body":"internalized homophobia at a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1670.49,"endTime":1675.05,"body":"rapid rate. It was just coming"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1670.49,"endTime":1675.05,"body":"off of me as I was, like, being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1675.05,"endTime":1678.44,"body":"gay, you know, dating someone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1675.05,"endTime":1678.44,"body":"and just like learning what that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1678.44,"endTime":1682.25,"body":"was about. And so I'm having all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1678.44,"endTime":1682.25,"body":"these experiences. And looking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1682.25,"endTime":1686.24,"body":"back, it was, it's so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1682.25,"endTime":1686.24,"body":"interesting how, as I was, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1686.54,"endTime":1690.59,"body":"falling in love with myself, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1686.54,"endTime":1690.59,"body":"like really gaining self"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1690.59,"endTime":1693.56,"body":"confidence and being okay with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1690.59,"endTime":1693.56,"body":"who I am, it was really easy to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1693.56,"endTime":1698.3,"body":"confuse that with love for him."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1693.56,"endTime":1698.3,"body":"And I mean, obviously, like he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1698.3,"endTime":1700.97,"body":"had like, qualities that I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1698.3,"endTime":1700.97,"body":"interested in, or else I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1700.97,"endTime":1703.97,"body":"wouldn't have gone on a second"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1700.97,"endTime":1703.97,"body":"date with him. But we were not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1703.97,"endTime":1708.38,"body":"very compatible. And we had very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1703.97,"endTime":1708.38,"body":"different life experiences and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1708.38,"endTime":1712.31,"body":"very different views. We were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1708.38,"endTime":1712.31,"body":"very different religiously. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1712.31,"endTime":1713.99,"body":"there were a lot of things that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1712.31,"endTime":1713.99,"body":"just like never would have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1713.99,"endTime":1717.74,"body":"worked. But because like he was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1713.99,"endTime":1717.74,"body":"the first person that I ever,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1717.74,"endTime":1721.55,"body":"like, let my guard down and kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1717.74,"endTime":1721.55,"body":"of drop some of my walls for I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1721.55,"endTime":1726.14,"body":"was like, incredibly invested in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1721.55,"endTime":1726.14,"body":"it to almost like an unhealthy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1726.47,"endTime":1731.18,"body":"way. So that like when things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1726.47,"endTime":1731.18,"body":"would be off or when it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1731.21,"endTime":1734.66,"body":"eventually ended. Like I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1731.21,"endTime":1734.66,"body":"like, crushed and damaged and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1734.66,"endTime":1739.13,"body":"heartbroken. Because it was just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1734.66,"endTime":1739.13,"body":"it was so hard to like separate."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1739.46,"endTime":1743.69,"body":"Is this me loving me? Or is this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1739.46,"endTime":1743.69,"body":"me loving him? Is this me being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1743.69,"endTime":1747.8,"body":"myself? Or like he he was such a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1743.69,"endTime":1747.8,"body":"part of my coming out and dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1747.8,"endTime":1750.59,"body":"experience, even like with my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1747.8,"endTime":1750.59,"body":"experience living in New York,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1750.8,"endTime":1754.04,"body":"because like he showed me new"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1750.8,"endTime":1754.04,"body":"places and took me to, like, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1754.04,"endTime":1756.65,"body":"know, like, as I fell in love"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1754.04,"endTime":1756.65,"body":"with the city, and as I fell in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1756.65,"endTime":1759.32,"body":"love with myself, I confused"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1756.65,"endTime":1759.32,"body":"that with falling in love with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1759.32,"endTime":1763.28,"body":"him sometimes. And that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1759.32,"endTime":1763.28,"body":"something that I see people do a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1763.28,"endTime":1766.37,"body":"lot, especially when it's the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1763.28,"endTime":1766.37,"body":"first time dating someone."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1766.45,"endTime":1768.55,"body":"Yeah, and I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1766.45,"endTime":1768.55,"body":"that's a normal experience"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1768.55,"endTime":1772.99,"body":"people often have as teenagers."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1768.55,"endTime":1772.99,"body":"Yeah, and I think that's a super"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1772.99,"endTime":1775.75,"body":"common thing thing to have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1772.99,"endTime":1775.75,"body":"happen. And, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1775.75,"endTime":1778.12,"body":"tough when you're wondering,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1775.75,"endTime":1778.12,"body":"like, is it this experience that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1778.12,"endTime":1780.58,"body":"I'm enjoying? Or is it like this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1778.12,"endTime":1780.58,"body":"person that I want to be with,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1780.61,"endTime":1784.54,"body":"right? And I've seen some people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1780.61,"endTime":1784.54,"body":"who you know, they end up just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1784.54,"endTime":1787.78,"body":"marrying the first person they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1784.54,"endTime":1787.78,"body":"date because they don't separate"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1787.78,"endTime":1790.57,"body":"those things because the truth"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1787.78,"endTime":1790.57,"body":"is, you know, we date to get to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1790.57,"endTime":1794.68,"body":"know people and also to get to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1790.57,"endTime":1794.68,"body":"know ourselves and, and so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1794.68,"endTime":1796.84,"body":"think that thinking that we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1794.68,"endTime":1796.84,"body":"going to marry the first person"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1796.84,"endTime":1800.41,"body":"we date is is usually not what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1796.84,"endTime":1800.41,"body":"happens but definitely can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1800.41,"endTime":1804.91,"body":"happen. And yeah, yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1800.41,"endTime":1804.91,"body":"that often we, I've seen people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1804.91,"endTime":1808.66,"body":"jump into things, maybe, maybe"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1804.91,"endTime":1808.66,"body":"more quickly than might be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1808.66,"endTime":1809.05,"body":"healthy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1809.45,"endTime":1813.02,"body":"Yeah. And I think part"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1809.45,"endTime":1813.02,"body":"of that was that he was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1813.2,"endTime":1816.71,"body":"interested in the part of me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1813.2,"endTime":1816.71,"body":"that I'd always hated the most."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1817.4,"endTime":1820.73,"body":"Like, I'd always hated that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1817.4,"endTime":1820.73,"body":"was gay. But he liked that I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.73,"endTime":1823.97,"body":"gay, because it meant that we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.73,"endTime":1823.97,"body":"could date. That, that was a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1823.97,"endTime":1827.87,"body":"feeling I never felt I never had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1823.97,"endTime":1827.87,"body":"someone like, like, my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1827.87,"endTime":1832.49,"body":"orientation, and be okay with my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1827.87,"endTime":1832.49,"body":"orientation. And so it almost"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1832.49,"endTime":1834.71,"body":"made me feel to a certain"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1832.49,"endTime":1834.71,"body":"extent, like, he's the only"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1834.71,"endTime":1837.8,"body":"person who could ever love me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1834.71,"endTime":1837.8,"body":"because I still, like even at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1837.8,"endTime":1841.13,"body":"that point, had a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1837.8,"endTime":1841.13,"body":"feelings of like, being broken"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1841.13,"endTime":1843.83,"body":"or damaged, or used or, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1841.13,"endTime":1843.83,"body":"worthless."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1844.31,"endTime":1847.22,"body":"And so you were kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1844.31,"endTime":1847.22,"body":"staying in a relationship,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1847.22,"endTime":1849.38,"body":"because you didn't think that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1847.22,"endTime":1849.38,"body":"you would get anything better."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1849.57,"endTime":1853.8,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And, and I,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1849.57,"endTime":1853.8,"body":"again, I talked to my friends"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1853.8,"endTime":1856.05,"body":"about it. Actually, at the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1853.8,"endTime":1856.05,"body":"beginning of the relationship. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1856.05,"endTime":1858.57,"body":"wasn't telling anyone that we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1856.05,"endTime":1858.57,"body":"were dating, and then like, a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1858.57,"endTime":1860.49,"body":"couple weeks, in I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1858.57,"endTime":1860.49,"body":"What am I doing? Like, this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1860.49,"endTime":1864.48,"body":"so dumb. And so I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1860.49,"endTime":1864.48,"body":"Rachel. And and she said to me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1864.48,"endTime":1867.21,"body":"like, I would be like, he did"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1864.48,"endTime":1867.21,"body":"this. And she's like, honestly,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1867.21,"endTime":1869.49,"body":"Charlie, it just sounds like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1867.21,"endTime":1869.49,"body":"that's like baseline being a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1869.49,"endTime":1871.5,"body":"good person. And I was like..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1871.59,"endTime":1873.27,"body":"You're like, it's so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1871.59,"endTime":1873.27,"body":"romantic and it means so much to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1873.27,"endTime":1873.33,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1873.81,"endTime":1876.39,"body":"Yeah, exactly. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1873.81,"endTime":1876.39,"body":"she's like, I think you need to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1876.39,"endTime":1880.92,"body":"like, raise your standards. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1876.39,"endTime":1880.92,"body":"she was right. So I guess I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1880.92,"endTime":1884.01,"body":"don't know, the moral of that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1880.92,"endTime":1884.01,"body":"story is to be aware of that, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1884.01,"endTime":1886.5,"body":"guess. I mean, it happened to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1884.01,"endTime":1886.5,"body":"me. So it could probably happen"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1886.5,"endTime":1886.86,"body":"to you."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1887.47,"endTime":1890.83,"body":"Yeah. So one of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1887.47,"endTime":1890.83,"body":"questions I get asked a lot, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1890.86,"endTime":1892.96,"body":"once again, like we're not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1890.86,"endTime":1892.96,"body":"telling anyone what to do. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1892.96,"endTime":1895.24,"body":"people say I'm worried about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1892.96,"endTime":1895.24,"body":"dating, because I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1895.24,"endTime":1897.52,"body":"lose my relationship with God."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1895.24,"endTime":1897.52,"body":"Like, I don't want to lose the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1897.52,"endTime":1898.42,"body":"spirit in my life."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1899.02,"endTime":1902.02,"body":"In my case, dating, in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1899.02,"endTime":1902.02,"body":"a lot of ways mended my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1902.02,"endTime":1905.86,"body":"relationship with God, because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1902.02,"endTime":1905.86,"body":"was still kind of mad at God for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1905.86,"endTime":1909.79,"body":"feeling like other people could"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1905.86,"endTime":1909.79,"body":"do things that I couldn't. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1909.79,"endTime":1913.54,"body":"to me, it was like a crash"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1909.79,"endTime":1913.54,"body":"course in agency, like really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.57,"endTime":1917.47,"body":"realizing that I have freewill"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.57,"endTime":1917.47,"body":"and I can make decisions. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1917.47,"endTime":1920.95,"body":"that like, Christ's atonement"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1917.47,"endTime":1920.95,"body":"isn't some sort of like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1920.95,"endTime":1923.65,"body":"know, like, like, I really had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1920.95,"endTime":1923.65,"body":"to use it and be like, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1923.65,"endTime":1926.11,"body":"down this path. Do I want to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1923.65,"endTime":1926.11,"body":"keep going? Should I back out?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1926.11,"endTime":1930.97,"body":"Should I go a different way."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1926.11,"endTime":1930.97,"body":"And, like by making decisions, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1930.97,"endTime":1935.44,"body":"had to rely on God. Because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1930.97,"endTime":1935.44,"body":"couldn't rely on the For the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1935.44,"endTime":1938.65,"body":"Strength of Youth, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1935.44,"endTime":1938.65,"body":"couldn't rely on heterosexual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1938.65,"endTime":1941.8,"body":"advice. And I couldn't rely on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1938.65,"endTime":1941.8,"body":"like, like, I had friends and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1941.8,"endTime":1945.91,"body":"stuff but like, there was this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1941.8,"endTime":1945.91,"body":"element of me doing something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1945.91,"endTime":1950.53,"body":"that was so singularly me that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1945.91,"endTime":1950.53,"body":"needed spiritual guidance. So I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1950.53,"endTime":1954.85,"body":"ended up turning to God a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1950.53,"endTime":1954.85,"body":"more with the gay relationships"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1954.85,"endTime":1956.95,"body":"than any other relationship I'd"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1954.85,"endTime":1956.95,"body":"ever really had."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1957.11,"endTime":1961.01,"body":"Yeah. You know, I feel very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1957.11,"endTime":1961.01,"body":"similar. But I mean, not quite"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1961.01,"endTime":1963.77,"body":"to that extreme. Because I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1961.01,"endTime":1963.77,"body":"feel like I had a relationship"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1963.83,"endTime":1965.66,"body":"with God that needed to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1963.83,"endTime":1965.66,"body":"mended. Because I was never like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1965.66,"endTime":1970.25,"body":"mad at God, which I think is not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1965.66,"endTime":1970.25,"body":"normal. I think most people have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1970.25,"endTime":1974.15,"body":"that experience. But I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1970.25,"endTime":1974.15,"body":"remember, it was like, it's like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1974.15,"endTime":1977.0,"body":"Second Nephi chapter two, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1974.15,"endTime":1977.0,"body":"know, where you need to, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1977.0,"endTime":1979.94,"body":"need to know what like, there"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1977.0,"endTime":1979.94,"body":"needs to be bitter and sweet."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1979.94,"endTime":1982.37,"body":"Like, there has to be choices"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1979.94,"endTime":1982.37,"body":"for us, to like actually have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1982.37,"endTime":1986.24,"body":"agency. And I felt like having"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1982.37,"endTime":1986.24,"body":"this relationship with Jordan"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1986.24,"endTime":1988.76,"body":"was like, it was like a choice"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1986.24,"endTime":1988.76,"body":"that was placed in front of me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1989.18,"endTime":1993.77,"body":"And as I made that choice, I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1989.18,"endTime":1993.77,"body":"able to make the choice that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1993.8,"endTime":1996.98,"body":"ultimately I feel was best for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1993.8,"endTime":1996.98,"body":"me, which was to stay or move"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1996.98,"endTime":2000.91,"body":"forward in the church and live"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1996.98,"endTime":2000.91,"body":"church teachings. And I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2000.91,"endTime":2004.48,"body":"sure that--this is for me--I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2000.91,"endTime":2004.48,"body":"not sure I could have moved"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2004.48,"endTime":2006.67,"body":"forward in the church in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2004.48,"endTime":2006.67,"body":"healthy way had I not been in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2006.67,"endTime":2009.85,"body":"that relationship, which is why"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2006.67,"endTime":2009.85,"body":"I think God wanted me to have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2009.85,"endTime":2010.63,"body":"that relationship."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2011.38,"endTime":2013.45,"body":"I agree. I feel that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2011.38,"endTime":2013.45,"body":"way, as well."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2013.75,"endTime":2016.84,"body":"And once again, we're not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2013.75,"endTime":2016.84,"body":"saying we want to do, but but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2017.02,"endTime":2020.32,"body":"for me that that that was the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2017.02,"endTime":2020.32,"body":"case. And I remember, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2020.32,"endTime":2025.39,"body":"remember, so I came up to visit"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2020.32,"endTime":2025.39,"body":"Jordan. Like in April, after"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2025.39,"endTime":2028.21,"body":"we'd been, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2025.39,"endTime":2028.21,"body":"romantically involved, but long"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2028.21,"endTime":2032.56,"body":"distance for since January. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2028.21,"endTime":2032.56,"body":"I made some firm rules that we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2032.56,"endTime":2034.06,"body":"weren't gonna, like, we were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2032.56,"endTime":2034.06,"body":"gonna hold hands, we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2034.06,"endTime":2036.61,"body":"kiss. And we ended up doing both"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2034.06,"endTime":2036.61,"body":"of those things. Both those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2036.61,"endTime":2037.0,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2037.03,"endTime":2037.78,"body":"You dog."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2037.78,"endTime":2043.03,"body":"I know, right? A 30 year"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2037.78,"endTime":2043.03,"body":"old kissing someone. And so we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2043.03,"endTime":2047.83,"body":"kissed on a Saturday night. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2043.03,"endTime":2047.83,"body":"my immediate reaction was, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2047.83,"endTime":2051.01,"body":"have never kissed a guy. And now"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2047.83,"endTime":2051.01,"body":"I have and I just like, felt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2051.04,"endTime":2054.04,"body":"like I just like broken myself."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2051.04,"endTime":2054.04,"body":"Like, I just like gone back on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2054.04,"endTime":2056.35,"body":"this decision I'd made I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2054.04,"endTime":2056.35,"body":"felt terrible, just absolute"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2056.35,"endTime":2058.87,"body":"terrible, that had like, gone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2056.35,"endTime":2058.87,"body":"back on this decision I'd made"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2058.87,"endTime":2062.38,"body":"and like, now, I could never say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2058.87,"endTime":2062.38,"body":"that I hadn't kissed a guy. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2062.38,"endTime":2064.84,"body":"so then the next morning,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2062.38,"endTime":2064.84,"body":"Sunday, and we went to church,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2065.14,"endTime":2070.15,"body":"and I remember the sacrament"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2065.14,"endTime":2070.15,"body":"coming around and thinking, am I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2070.18,"endTime":2073.87,"body":"worthy to take the sacrament?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2070.18,"endTime":2073.87,"body":"And just like really, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2074.17,"endTime":2078.91,"body":"praying and pondering and, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2074.17,"endTime":2078.91,"body":"exploring my feelings. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2078.91,"endTime":2082.06,"body":"felt yes, I felt completely"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2078.91,"endTime":2082.06,"body":"worthy to take the sacrament"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2082.06,"endTime":2084.73,"body":"even though I just kissed"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2082.06,"endTime":2084.73,"body":"Jordan, less than 12 hours"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2084.73,"endTime":2085.18,"body":"before."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2086.14,"endTime":2088.51,"body":"Ben told me this story"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2086.14,"endTime":2088.51,"body":"as I was like, just starting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2088.51,"endTime":2091.51,"body":"with this first boyfriend that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2088.51,"endTime":2091.51,"body":"had. At that time. I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2091.51,"endTime":2094.18,"body":"wondering if because like it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2091.51,"endTime":2094.18,"body":"one thing to go on dates with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2094.24,"endTime":2097.15,"body":"random people. But it felt like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2094.24,"endTime":2097.15,"body":"an entirely different thing to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2097.15,"endTime":2100.6,"body":"me to be like, steadily dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2097.15,"endTime":2100.6,"body":"someone like this same person,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2100.6,"endTime":2103.48,"body":"and we'd see each other like, at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2100.6,"endTime":2103.48,"body":"least every two days, and we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2103.48,"endTime":2105.82,"body":"talk every day. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2103.48,"endTime":2105.82,"body":"wondering if I should still be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2105.82,"endTime":2110.14,"body":"going to the temple just because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2105.82,"endTime":2110.14,"body":"like, there's not a guidebook"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2110.14,"endTime":2113.8,"body":"for us. Like, there's not like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2110.14,"endTime":2113.8,"body":"rules. Like who knows."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2114.29,"endTime":2116.39,"body":"And honestly, like, in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2114.29,"endTime":2116.39,"body":"lot of ways for straight people,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2116.39,"endTime":2119.27,"body":"there's not like, well, if you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2116.39,"endTime":2119.27,"body":"do X, Y, and Z, you can't do you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2119.27,"endTime":2120.92,"body":"can't do such and such a thing."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2119.27,"endTime":2120.92,"body":"Like, I mean, they're like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2120.92,"endTime":2124.1,"body":"general principles, like we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2120.92,"endTime":2124.1,"body":"know, like some hard lines. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2124.28,"endTime":2126.65,"body":"a lot of it is kind of up to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2124.28,"endTime":2126.65,"body":"personal revelation."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2126.65,"endTime":2128.72,"body":"Well I don't think a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2126.65,"endTime":2128.72,"body":"straight person would ever"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2128.72,"endTime":2132.35,"body":"wonder if they could go to the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2128.72,"endTime":2132.35,"body":"temple because they kissed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2132.35,"endTime":2132.74,"body":"someone."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2132.74,"endTime":2133.22,"body":"That's true."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2133.0,"endTime":2136.3,"body":"And so and that's how I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2133.0,"endTime":2136.3,"body":"was feeling I wasn't sure. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2136.3,"endTime":2139.48,"body":"felt like I should like, I felt"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2136.3,"endTime":2139.48,"body":"like I should be going to the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2139.48,"endTime":2142.99,"body":"temple every week. And again, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2139.48,"endTime":2142.99,"body":"was the kind of the feeling that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2143.02,"endTime":2145.42,"body":"I had when I first felt like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2143.02,"endTime":2145.42,"body":"should start dating. I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2145.45,"endTime":2148.33,"body":"are you sure about this? Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2145.45,"endTime":2148.33,"body":"am I being deceived? Is this the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2148.33,"endTime":2150.94,"body":"right information? Or is this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2148.33,"endTime":2150.94,"body":"just what I want? Am I lying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2150.94,"endTime":2154.66,"body":"myself? And when Ben said that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2150.94,"endTime":2154.66,"body":"to me, it really validated what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2154.66,"endTime":2157.48,"body":"I was feeling. And then that was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2154.66,"endTime":2157.48,"body":"a really a real blessing to me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2157.51,"endTime":2159.64,"body":"because I feel like I needed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2157.51,"endTime":2159.64,"body":"that spiritual sustenance as I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2159.64,"endTime":2163.21,"body":"was working through such"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2159.64,"endTime":2163.21,"body":"uncharted territory. And it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2163.24,"endTime":2166.69,"body":"it's, it might, I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2163.24,"endTime":2166.69,"body":"it sounds crazy to people, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2166.69,"endTime":2168.64,"body":"don't know if it sounds"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2166.69,"endTime":2168.64,"body":"inappropriate. But for me, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2168.64,"endTime":2171.37,"body":"feel like it was exactly what I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2168.64,"endTime":2171.37,"body":"needed to be doing. Because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2171.37,"endTime":2174.43,"body":"would like, go on a date with my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2171.37,"endTime":2174.43,"body":"boyfriend on Friday night. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2174.43,"endTime":2176.83,"body":"I'd wake up on Saturday morning"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2174.43,"endTime":2176.83,"body":"and do a temple session. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2176.83,"endTime":2182.05,"body":"just like, needed that and it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2176.83,"endTime":2182.05,"body":"grounded me. And I ended up"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2182.05,"endTime":2186.28,"body":"breaking up with this guy. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2182.05,"endTime":2186.28,"body":"it was horrible. And I finally"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2186.28,"endTime":2189.67,"body":"understood heartbreak songs. It"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2186.28,"endTime":2189.67,"body":"was awful."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2189.7,"endTime":2191.71,"body":"I had the exact same"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2189.7,"endTime":2191.71,"body":"experience when Jordan and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2191.71,"endTime":2194.83,"body":"ended. I remember calling my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2191.71,"endTime":2194.83,"body":"friend Lee and I was like, it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2194.83,"endTime":2197.26,"body":"feels like my heart literally"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2194.83,"endTime":2197.26,"body":"broke. Like, like this, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2197.26,"endTime":2200.2,"body":"heartbreak, like something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2197.26,"endTime":2200.2,"body":"inside of me is actually broken"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2200.2,"endTime":2200.5,"body":"right now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2200.53,"endTime":2201.85,"body":"My heart hurts."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2201.88,"endTime":2204.43,"body":"Like why wasn't it like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2201.88,"endTime":2204.43,"body":"this when I got dumped by women."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2204.52,"endTime":2205.54,"body":"It was not the same experience."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2205.57,"endTime":2207.88,"body":"It was awful. And it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2205.57,"endTime":2207.88,"body":"was also a new experience to me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2207.88,"endTime":2210.55,"body":"to like have a relationship like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2207.88,"endTime":2210.55,"body":"to have someone I cared about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2210.88,"endTime":2214.3,"body":"that I couldn't keep with me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2210.88,"endTime":2214.3,"body":"Because all other friends like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2214.33,"endTime":2216.91,"body":"usually if I care about someone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2214.33,"endTime":2216.91,"body":"I like keep them in my life, at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2216.91,"endTime":2220.24,"body":"least to some extent. But with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2216.91,"endTime":2220.24,"body":"this guy, I was like, we broke"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2220.24,"endTime":2223.87,"body":"up and it's like, I can't really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2220.24,"endTime":2223.87,"body":"like reach out to him. Because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2223.9,"endTime":2227.26,"body":"it's just weird. There's just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2223.9,"endTime":2227.26,"body":"like a different vibe there. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2227.26,"endTime":2230.32,"body":"that was new, had to learn that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2227.26,"endTime":2230.32,"body":"But you know what I will say"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2230.32,"endTime":2233.83,"body":"once I kind of like, bounced"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2230.32,"endTime":2233.83,"body":"back from that. Going forward, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2233.83,"endTime":2236.74,"body":"was much better at dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2233.83,"endTime":2236.74,"body":"because it was all of that gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2236.74,"endTime":2239.71,"body":"adolescence, I kind of had like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2236.74,"endTime":2239.71,"body":"a crash course. Like, I'd had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2239.71,"endTime":2243.4,"body":"like a pilot episode. And I kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2239.71,"endTime":2243.4,"body":"of understood where I was and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2243.4,"endTime":2246.94,"body":"how to keep going forward with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2243.4,"endTime":2246.94,"body":"it. And I felt much better."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2247.63,"endTime":2251.2,"body":"So after this guy that you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2247.63,"endTime":2251.2,"body":"had this heartbreak with, did"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2251.2,"endTime":2251.92,"body":"you keep dating?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2252.29,"endTime":2255.62,"body":"Yeah, I did. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2252.29,"endTime":2255.62,"body":"ended up finding another person"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2255.62,"endTime":2258.74,"body":"who was a better fit for me. It"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2255.62,"endTime":2258.74,"body":"was just, it was much healthier."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2258.74,"endTime":2261.68,"body":"And like, like I said, this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2258.74,"endTime":2261.68,"body":"the guy that I invited to church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2261.68,"endTime":2263.69,"body":"and he would hang out, I would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2261.68,"endTime":2263.69,"body":"hang out with his friends and he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2263.69,"endTime":2268.94,"body":"would hang out with mine. And it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2263.69,"endTime":2268.94,"body":"felt a lot more normal. And in a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2268.94,"endTime":2271.67,"body":"lot of ways I felt safer with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2268.94,"endTime":2271.67,"body":"him, which proves that Rachel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2271.67,"endTime":2276.02,"body":"was right. Like, first guy was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2271.67,"endTime":2276.02,"body":"like a fine person, but wasn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2276.02,"endTime":2278.48,"body":"for me. Like we weren't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2276.02,"endTime":2278.48,"body":"compatible, but I was much more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2278.48,"endTime":2282.71,"body":"compatible with with the next"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2278.48,"endTime":2282.71,"body":"guy and, and it was just, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2282.71,"endTime":2288.35,"body":"nice to have someone. It really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2282.71,"endTime":2288.35,"body":"was. I really liked him. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2288.35,"endTime":2291.32,"body":"things were progressing well."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2288.35,"endTime":2291.32,"body":"Things were progressing well"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2291.32,"endTime":2295.67,"body":"enough that it was kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2291.32,"endTime":2295.67,"body":"starting to make me like wonder."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2296.3,"endTime":2297.26,"body":"If you should get married?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2297.29,"endTime":2299.48,"body":"No, not if I should get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2297.29,"endTime":2299.48,"body":"married. But just like I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2299.48,"endTime":2301.82,"body":"like, okay, like this is a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2299.48,"endTime":2301.82,"body":"relationship that I could see"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2302.09,"endTime":2304.82,"body":"lasting for a while. This was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2302.09,"endTime":2304.82,"body":"the first guy like I knew there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2304.82,"endTime":2307.64,"body":"was a bunch of like, red flags"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2304.82,"endTime":2307.64,"body":"that I didn't like. And so it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2307.64,"endTime":2310.67,"body":"was almost like, I was holding"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2307.64,"endTime":2310.67,"body":"on to something that I knew"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2310.67,"endTime":2312.2,"body":"would inevitably break."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2312.26,"endTime":2312.68,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2313.52,"endTime":2316.1,"body":"You know what? That was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2313.52,"endTime":2316.1,"body":"a real mess. I'm being honest."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2316.1,"endTime":2319.52,"body":"I'm very glad that's over. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2316.1,"endTime":2319.52,"body":"I learned like Ariana Grande"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2319.52,"endTime":2320.48,"body":"says Thank you Next."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2321.62,"endTime":2323.33,"body":"What was it like dating guy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2321.62,"endTime":2323.33,"body":"that you thought maybe I could"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2323.33,"endTime":2324.08,"body":"see myself with him?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2324.48,"endTime":2328.08,"body":"It was a lot different."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2324.48,"endTime":2328.08,"body":"Because it wasn't, there was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2328.08,"endTime":2330.84,"body":"like an element of danger with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2328.08,"endTime":2330.84,"body":"the first guy and an element of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2330.84,"endTime":2334.14,"body":"like rigidness because I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2330.84,"endTime":2334.14,"body":"very afraid to like fall into"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2334.14,"endTime":2336.69,"body":"any length chastity issues. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2334.14,"endTime":2336.69,"body":"I was really attracted to him."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2336.96,"endTime":2338.85,"body":"And it was really hard because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2336.96,"endTime":2338.85,"body":"we had incredibly different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2338.85,"endTime":2341.67,"body":"standards. We had different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2338.85,"endTime":2341.67,"body":"value systems. And I had very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2341.67,"endTime":2344.07,"body":"strict standards about what was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2341.67,"endTime":2344.07,"body":"and was not appropriate"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2344.07,"endTime":2346.44,"body":"physically. And he didn't and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2344.07,"endTime":2346.44,"body":"that honestly really stressed me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2346.44,"endTime":2350.97,"body":"out because like, I felt like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2346.44,"endTime":2350.97,"body":"was the sole guardian of what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2350.97,"endTime":2354.48,"body":"was and wasn't allowed. Because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2350.97,"endTime":2354.48,"body":"if I ever like I felt like if I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2354.48,"endTime":2358.08,"body":"ever like had a weak moment that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2354.48,"endTime":2358.08,"body":"he wouldn't stop. And that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2358.08,"endTime":2359.97,"body":"really scared me. So there was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2358.08,"endTime":2359.97,"body":"like an element of danger with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2359.97,"endTime":2360.51,"body":"first guy."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2361.59,"endTime":2362.61,"body":"You guys weren't on the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2361.59,"endTime":2362.61,"body":"same page."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2362.69,"endTime":2366.17,"body":"We weren't on the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2362.69,"endTime":2366.17,"body":"page. Yeah. And with the second"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2366.17,"endTime":2368.45,"body":"guy I was dating that wasn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2366.17,"endTime":2368.45,"body":"there, I felt much more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2368.54,"endTime":2372.35,"body":"comfortable. And I felt much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2368.54,"endTime":2372.35,"body":"more like appreciated and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2372.35,"endTime":2377.6,"body":"respected for what I believe."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2372.35,"endTime":2377.6,"body":"And we dated for a while. He had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2377.6,"endTime":2382.82,"body":"a really cool career. And we did"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2377.6,"endTime":2382.82,"body":"just really fun things together."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2382.85,"endTime":2387.83,"body":"And my friends really liked him."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2382.85,"endTime":2387.83,"body":"And I got to the point where I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2387.83,"endTime":2391.55,"body":"was like, Oh no, there's like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2387.83,"endTime":2391.55,"body":"nothing wrong with this guy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2392.36,"endTime":2394.79,"body":"What does that mean? Because,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2392.36,"endTime":2394.79,"body":"because before had been like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2394.91,"endTime":2398.54,"body":"date here, date there, date,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2394.91,"endTime":2398.54,"body":"date, date. And even with one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2398.54,"endTime":2400.82,"body":"guy I knew that it would end. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2398.54,"endTime":2400.82,"body":"knew there was an expiration"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2400.82,"endTime":2403.82,"body":"date on it eventually. But with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2400.82,"endTime":2403.82,"body":"the second guy, I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2403.82,"endTime":2408.2,"body":"don't, like, I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2403.82,"endTime":2408.2,"body":"to do here. And he was coming to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2408.2,"endTime":2412.25,"body":"church with me. And actually he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2408.2,"endTime":2412.25,"body":"hated it. He was like, it's so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2412.28,"endTime":2419.78,"body":"boring. Like, yeah. Yeah, it is."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2412.28,"endTime":2419.78,"body":"But like he was respectful. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2420.26,"endTime":2423.95,"body":"I actually came out publicly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2420.26,"endTime":2423.95,"body":"when I was still dating him."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2425.09,"endTime":2426.74,"body":"You were dating him when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2425.09,"endTime":2426.74,"body":"that Deseret News op ed came"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2426.74,"endTime":2426.8,"body":"out?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2426.8,"endTime":2429.2,"body":"I was dating him when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2426.8,"endTime":2429.2,"body":"the Deseret News op ed came out."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2429.2,"endTime":2431.48,"body":"Scandal. Did the Deseret"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2429.2,"endTime":2431.48,"body":"News know?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2431.72,"endTime":2434.99,"body":"No, they didn't. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2431.72,"endTime":2434.99,"body":"like, I don't think it's that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2434.99,"endTime":2437.6,"body":"much of a shock. Like everyone,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2434.99,"endTime":2437.6,"body":"when that came out figured I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2437.6,"endTime":2441.44,"body":"like, assumptions about me after"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2437.6,"endTime":2441.44,"body":"that article were high and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2441.44,"endTime":2445.34,"body":"raging. So that one is mild"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2441.44,"endTime":2445.34,"body":"compared to what a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2445.34,"endTime":2449.87,"body":"thought I was doing. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2445.34,"endTime":2449.87,"body":"remember after that came out, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2449.87,"endTime":2452.84,"body":"was I was seeing more of a life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2449.87,"endTime":2452.84,"body":"for myself. Because before I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2452.84,"endTime":2454.58,"body":"wasn't really sure where I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2452.84,"endTime":2454.58,"body":"going, I didn't really have a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2454.58,"endTime":2457.49,"body":"direction. And I was living in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2454.58,"endTime":2457.49,"body":"like, a gray Limbo space for a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2457.49,"endTime":2460.73,"body":"while. And then I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2457.49,"endTime":2460.73,"body":"actually, you know what, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2460.76,"endTime":2463.52,"body":"there needs to be more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2460.76,"endTime":2463.52,"body":"visibility in my church, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2463.52,"endTime":2467.72,"body":"maybe I should be more involved."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2463.52,"endTime":2467.72,"body":"And once that article was so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2467.72,"endTime":2472.7,"body":"big, like, it just felt, right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2467.72,"endTime":2472.7,"body":"I felt pulled to something else."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2472.7,"endTime":2475.46,"body":"And, and I was like, God, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2472.7,"endTime":2475.46,"body":"here's the deal. I really like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2475.46,"endTime":2477.35,"body":"this guy. And I've been praying"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2475.46,"endTime":2477.35,"body":"a lot. Like I prayed about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2477.35,"endTime":2479.42,"body":"everything I prayed about who I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2477.35,"endTime":2479.42,"body":"should go on dates with, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2479.42,"endTime":2482.96,"body":"when, like, I really wanted to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2479.42,"endTime":2482.96,"body":"make sure that I was doing it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2483.08,"endTime":2487.28,"body":"right. Right for me, at least."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2483.08,"endTime":2487.28,"body":"And I was praying, and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2487.28,"endTime":2490.67,"body":"like, God, I really like this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2487.28,"endTime":2490.67,"body":"guy. And he cares about me, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2490.67,"endTime":2497.42,"body":"he's good. What should I do? And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2490.67,"endTime":2497.42,"body":"I had a very strong impression"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2497.42,"endTime":2500.84,"body":"that was like, break up with him"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2497.42,"endTime":2500.84,"body":"tomorrow and stop dating. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2500.84,"endTime":2506.06,"body":"was like, what?!? I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2500.84,"endTime":2506.06,"body":"but I like him. I like him a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2506.06,"endTime":2509.81,"body":"lot. And I was like, are you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2506.06,"endTime":2509.81,"body":"sure? So like, for the whole"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2509.81,"endTime":2512.51,"body":"night I'm just kind of like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2509.81,"endTime":2512.51,"body":"like Enos going back and forth."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2512.51,"endTime":2517.01,"body":"My wrestle. And, and I just felt"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2512.51,"endTime":2517.01,"body":"like I should. And so the next"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2517.01,"endTime":2519.65,"body":"day, I talked to him. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2517.01,"endTime":2519.65,"body":"like, hey, like, we need to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2519.65,"endTime":2522.41,"body":"talk. And we had the discussion."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2519.65,"endTime":2522.41,"body":"And he was so gracious and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2522.41,"endTime":2525.29,"body":"graceful. And he was like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2522.41,"endTime":2525.29,"body":"understand and like, this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2525.29,"endTime":2527.48,"body":"your personal journey, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2525.29,"endTime":2527.48,"body":"care about you, and I don't want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2527.48,"endTime":2530.33,"body":"to hold you back. And if having"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2527.48,"endTime":2530.33,"body":"me would hold you back from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2530.33,"endTime":2534.35,"body":"being able to gain the trust of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2530.33,"endTime":2534.35,"body":"your community, or would like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2534.35,"endTime":2537.95,"body":"thwart the way that your voice"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2534.35,"endTime":2537.95,"body":"or your message is heard, then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2537.98,"endTime":2541.55,"body":"then I think you should, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2537.98,"endTime":2541.55,"body":"should go with your gut, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2541.55,"endTime":2544.19,"body":"stop dating. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2541.55,"endTime":2544.19,"body":"okay bye."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2544.52,"endTime":2545.57,"body":"That was so nice of him."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2545.6,"endTime":2548.81,"body":"Yeah, he's really an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2545.6,"endTime":2548.81,"body":"incredible guy. So we broke up."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2548.96,"endTime":2554.15,"body":"And the next week, I was asked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2548.96,"endTime":2554.15,"body":"to write my book, by Deseret"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2554.15,"endTime":2559.55,"body":"Book, and my life just unfolded"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2554.15,"endTime":2559.55,"body":"in a really beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2559.58,"endTime":2563.33,"body":"unexpected, unforeseen way. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2559.58,"endTime":2563.33,"body":"when I look back at that period,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2563.33,"endTime":2568.64,"body":"while I was dating, I would, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2563.33,"endTime":2568.64,"body":"don't think I would have had the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2568.64,"endTime":2572.93,"body":"strength or the courage or the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2568.64,"endTime":2572.93,"body":"stamina to do anything, any of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2572.93,"endTime":2576.05,"body":"what I've done, had I not had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2572.93,"endTime":2576.05,"body":"those experiences dating. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2576.05,"endTime":2578.21,"body":"think I would have been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2576.05,"endTime":2578.21,"body":"resentful. I think I would have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2578.21,"endTime":2582.08,"body":"been bitter, I think I would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2578.21,"endTime":2582.08,"body":"have gotten just like, stuck in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2582.08,"endTime":2586.67,"body":"my own head a lot more. Knowing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2582.08,"endTime":2586.67,"body":"what I was giving up choosing to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2586.67,"endTime":2592.37,"body":"not date, it made that decision"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2586.67,"endTime":2592.37,"body":"a lot easier. Because it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2592.4,"endTime":2595.52,"body":"a value of x, it was a value"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2592.4,"endTime":2595.52,"body":"that I'd solved. And I knew what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2595.52,"endTime":2598.58,"body":"the numerical number was. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2595.52,"endTime":2598.58,"body":"could know if, and I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2598.58,"endTime":2602.06,"body":"can have either like, I now know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2598.58,"endTime":2602.06,"body":"that if I can date. Like if I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2602.06,"endTime":2606.05,"body":"want to date I can. And I can be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2602.06,"endTime":2606.05,"body":"successful, and I can grow and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2606.05,"endTime":2609.38,"body":"can find a really, really good"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2606.05,"endTime":2609.38,"body":"person who loves me like I did."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2609.53,"endTime":2611.72,"body":"Yeah. What I'm hearing you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2609.53,"endTime":2611.72,"body":"say is like, one thing that was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2611.72,"endTime":2614.45,"body":"hard for me, it was like, I felt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2611.72,"endTime":2614.45,"body":"so trapped in the Church. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2614.48,"endTime":2616.76,"body":"like, I felt like there was no"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2614.48,"endTime":2616.76,"body":"way out. Like I was just like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2616.76,"endTime":2618.65,"body":"trapped in this doctrine and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2616.76,"endTime":2618.65,"body":"culture that didn't have a place"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2618.65,"endTime":2622.4,"body":"for me. And then my relationship"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2618.65,"endTime":2622.4,"body":"with Jordan kind of opened up to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2622.46,"endTime":2624.89,"body":"like, the possibilities of like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2622.46,"endTime":2624.89,"body":"I'm not trapped, I've got really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2624.89,"endTime":2627.26,"body":"good options. And yet, this is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2624.89,"endTime":2627.26,"body":"where I want to be."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2627.75,"endTime":2630.6,"body":"Right. And that in even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2627.75,"endTime":2630.6,"body":"if I wanted to go back, like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2630.6,"endTime":2633.36,"body":"can patch work a way to do it,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2630.6,"endTime":2633.36,"body":"where I'm still going to church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2633.39,"endTime":2635.82,"body":"as I'm dating, and I find"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2633.39,"endTime":2635.82,"body":"someone with similar values. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2635.82,"endTime":2639.03,"body":"I can do it in a way that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2635.82,"endTime":2639.03,"body":"incorporates my past experience"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2639.03,"endTime":2642.45,"body":"and my spirituality in a way"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2639.03,"endTime":2642.45,"body":"that adds to a relationship,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2642.81,"endTime":2646.89,"body":"rather than, like choosing one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2642.81,"endTime":2646.89,"body":"or the other. I think that's so,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2646.92,"endTime":2652.41,"body":"so, so problematic to think you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2646.92,"endTime":2652.41,"body":"have to choose one or the other."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2652.71,"endTime":2656.82,"body":"So Charlie, in your ideal"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2652.71,"endTime":2656.82,"body":"world, you would be dating a man"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2657.21,"endTime":2660.36,"body":"who has your same values and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2657.21,"endTime":2660.36,"body":"move forward in the church."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2660.45,"endTime":2665.25,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, that's my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2660.45,"endTime":2665.25,"body":"ideal world. People ask me a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2665.25,"endTime":2668.1,"body":"about the future. And my future"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2665.25,"endTime":2668.1,"body":"plans and like is that I haven't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2668.1,"endTime":2670.86,"body":"talked about dating for a long"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2668.1,"endTime":2670.86,"body":"time. Let's say I came out in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2670.86,"endTime":2674.07,"body":"February of 2019. So it's almost"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2670.86,"endTime":2674.07,"body":"been two years. And this is the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2674.07,"endTime":2677.85,"body":"first public anything of me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2674.07,"endTime":2677.85,"body":"talking about actually dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2677.85,"endTime":2682.29,"body":"guys. And the reason I've done"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2677.85,"endTime":2682.29,"body":"that is because I've noticed if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2682.29,"endTime":2684.63,"body":"I start saying things that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2682.29,"endTime":2684.63,"body":"people are uncomfortable with,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2684.66,"endTime":2688.2,"body":"they will not listen to me. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2684.66,"endTime":2688.2,"body":"and I believe that if I would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2688.2,"endTime":2691.23,"body":"have had, if I would have still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2688.2,"endTime":2691.23,"body":"been dating that guy who was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2691.23,"endTime":2695.49,"body":"good and funny, and compelling"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2691.23,"endTime":2695.49,"body":"and interesting and talented,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2696.3,"endTime":2698.88,"body":"that people wouldn't have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2696.3,"endTime":2698.88,"body":"respected me or believed me at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2698.88,"endTime":2701.64,"body":"all. I wouldn't have been able"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2698.88,"endTime":2701.64,"body":"to write my book, I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2701.64,"endTime":2703.65,"body":"have been able to start this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2701.64,"endTime":2703.65,"body":"podcast, like people don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2703.65,"endTime":2706.71,"body":"listen to gay people in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2703.65,"endTime":2706.71,"body":"relationships. But like me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2706.71,"endTime":2711.45,"body":"dating didn't, didn't take away"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2706.71,"endTime":2711.45,"body":"from my value as a saint. That's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2711.45,"endTime":2715.38,"body":"really what I felt. Honestly, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2711.45,"endTime":2715.38,"body":"feels like the reason that God"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2715.38,"endTime":2717.96,"body":"asked me to stop dating wasn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2715.38,"endTime":2717.96,"body":"because I was going down a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2717.96,"endTime":2722.43,"body":"horrible path. It was because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2717.96,"endTime":2722.43,"body":"had a work to do. That couldn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2722.43,"endTime":2724.11,"body":"be done had I been with someone."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2725.62,"endTime":2729.01,"body":"I think about the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2725.62,"endTime":2729.01,"body":"sacrifices we make. And you and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2729.01,"endTime":2731.71,"body":"I were just talking recently"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2729.01,"endTime":2731.71,"body":"about how I was saying, like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2731.71,"endTime":2734.14,"body":"feel like I could just be like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2731.71,"endTime":2734.14,"body":"the same sex romantic"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2734.14,"endTime":2737.11,"body":"relationship. I know that word"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2734.14,"endTime":2737.11,"body":"you hate. And just like, be with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2737.11,"endTime":2739.24,"body":"someone, whether it's like, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2737.11,"endTime":2739.24,"body":"know, kiss and cuddle, and like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2739.24,"endTime":2742.18,"body":"that'd be enough for me. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2739.24,"endTime":2742.18,"body":"I've been thinking about it,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2742.18,"endTime":2744.76,"body":"since we talked about it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2742.18,"endTime":2744.76,"body":"yesterday. And I, I think that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2744.76,"endTime":2747.94,"body":"would be enough for me, because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2744.76,"endTime":2747.94,"body":"it would have to be because I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2748.06,"endTime":2752.65,"body":"not allowed to want something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2748.06,"endTime":2752.65,"body":"more. And like even now, like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2752.65,"endTime":2754.78,"body":"don't feel like that kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2752.65,"endTime":2754.78,"body":"like even the same sex romantic"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2754.78,"endTime":2758.05,"body":"relationship that's like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2754.78,"endTime":2758.05,"body":"keeping the law of chastity. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2758.53,"endTime":2761.2,"body":"like, even that I don't feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2758.53,"endTime":2761.2,"body":"like is right for me now. So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2761.2,"endTime":2763.87,"body":"it's just kind of tragic that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2761.2,"endTime":2763.87,"body":"things that we aren't allowed to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2763.87,"endTime":2767.29,"body":"want. People will tell me often"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2763.87,"endTime":2767.29,"body":"like, well, Ben, you don't date"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2767.29,"endTime":2770.53,"body":"because you work at BYU. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2767.29,"endTime":2770.53,"body":"like, that's 100% not the case."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2770.56,"endTime":2775.09,"body":"Because I was in Arizona for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2770.56,"endTime":2775.09,"body":"three years, you know, out and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2775.12,"endTime":2777.64,"body":"wasn't dating there. Because I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2775.12,"endTime":2777.64,"body":"felt that that wasn't the right"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2777.64,"endTime":2781.3,"body":"path for me after Jordan. And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2777.64,"endTime":2781.3,"body":"when I moved up to Utah, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2781.3,"endTime":2784.96,"body":"know, even though the school"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2781.3,"endTime":2784.96,"body":"rules were I couldn't date. It"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2784.96,"endTime":2787.09,"body":"wasn't because of the school"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2784.96,"endTime":2787.09,"body":"rules. It was because of my own"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2787.09,"endTime":2791.02,"body":"personal values. And what I felt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2787.09,"endTime":2791.02,"body":"God was asking me to do. If I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2791.02,"endTime":2793.45,"body":"felt prompted to do something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2791.02,"endTime":2793.45,"body":"else, I could leave BYU, I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2793.48,"endTime":2796.45,"body":"got good credentials, I could do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2793.48,"endTime":2796.45,"body":"something else. But this is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2796.45,"endTime":2797.38,"body":"where I want to be."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2798.53,"endTime":2801.56,"body":"Moving forward, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2798.53,"endTime":2801.56,"body":"of these experiences that I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2801.56,"endTime":2805.91,"body":"had and makes my future much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2801.56,"endTime":2805.91,"body":"less stressful. I've kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2805.91,"endTime":2808.58,"body":"like, without all of this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2805.91,"endTime":2808.58,"body":"background information, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2808.58,"endTime":2811.49,"body":"thing that I have have been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2808.58,"endTime":2811.49,"body":"saying to people is like, I'll"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2811.49,"endTime":2814.25,"body":"just consult God and ask what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2811.49,"endTime":2814.25,"body":"path he wants me to take where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2814.25,"endTime":2816.8,"body":"he wants me to be. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2814.25,"endTime":2816.8,"body":"think there's just two paths,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2816.8,"endTime":2819.53,"body":"let me make that very clear. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2816.8,"endTime":2819.53,"body":"know that we all have agency and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2819.53,"endTime":2823.82,"body":"we can make any choice that we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2819.53,"endTime":2823.82,"body":"want really, granted, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2823.85,"endTime":2825.77,"body":"there, there are some choices"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2823.85,"endTime":2825.77,"body":"that come with the with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2825.77,"endTime":2829.22,"body":"different sacrifices, right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2825.77,"endTime":2829.22,"body":"But, but you're not stuck, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2829.22,"endTime":2831.71,"body":"can choose you can make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2829.22,"endTime":2831.71,"body":"decisions. And you can do them"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2831.71,"endTime":2835.04,"body":"in a way that is congruent with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2831.71,"endTime":2835.04,"body":"who you are. Looking back,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2835.07,"endTime":2839.48,"body":"there's a period of time when I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2835.07,"endTime":2839.48,"body":"felt inspired by God to date"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2839.48,"endTime":2843.74,"body":"guys, and to pursue romantic"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2839.48,"endTime":2843.74,"body":"relationships with someone that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2843.77,"endTime":2846.5,"body":"that I care about, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2843.77,"endTime":2846.5,"body":"attracted to. Then there's a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2846.5,"endTime":2850.58,"body":"period of time where I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2846.5,"endTime":2850.58,"body":"inspired to not. And so looking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2850.58,"endTime":2852.95,"body":"forward, it doesn't stress me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2850.58,"endTime":2852.95,"body":"out as much because I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2853.07,"endTime":2857.48,"body":"well, God's told me to date and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2853.07,"endTime":2857.48,"body":"God has told me to not date and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2857.48,"endTime":2859.91,"body":"I just trust that that'll happen"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2857.48,"endTime":2859.91,"body":"again. And if I'm supposed to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2859.91,"endTime":2863.93,"body":"dating someone, I feel confident"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2859.91,"endTime":2863.93,"body":"enough in my relationship with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2863.93,"endTime":2867.26,"body":"God that I can feel what's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2863.93,"endTime":2867.26,"body":"right, and pursue that if I feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2867.26,"endTime":2871.52,"body":"spiritually drawn towards it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2867.26,"endTime":2871.52,"body":"But if not, then not, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2871.52,"endTime":2875.03,"body":"just, I really believe that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2871.52,"endTime":2875.03,"body":"like, I can, like choose my own"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2875.03,"endTime":2877.91,"body":"happiness, as I pray about it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2878.26,"endTime":2880.21,"body":"Yeah. And what I'm hearing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2878.26,"endTime":2880.21,"body":"you say Charlie is like, what I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2880.21,"endTime":2883.27,"body":"try and do is, I try to have an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2880.21,"endTime":2883.27,"body":"internal locus of control, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2883.27,"endTime":2886.81,"body":"I don't, I try and, like make my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2883.27,"endTime":2886.81,"body":"decisions, like, because of me,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2886.81,"endTime":2889.27,"body":"and not because of external"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2886.81,"endTime":2889.27,"body":"factors. And of course, no one's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2889.27,"endTime":2892.54,"body":"perfect with that. But that is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2889.27,"endTime":2892.54,"body":"what I strive for. And so, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2892.54,"endTime":2895.66,"body":"know, if someone says, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2892.54,"endTime":2895.66,"body":"Ben, can I date, you know, that,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2895.66,"endTime":2899.14,"body":"of course, is not a choice for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2895.66,"endTime":2899.14,"body":"me to make for them. And, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2899.14,"endTime":2900.97,"body":"know, I would really want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2899.14,"endTime":2900.97,"body":"know, like, like, why do they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2900.97,"endTime":2903.64,"body":"want to date? You know, is it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2900.97,"endTime":2903.64,"body":"because they feel trapped? Is it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2903.64,"endTime":2905.74,"body":"because they feel lonely? And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2903.64,"endTime":2905.74,"body":"the only way they'll be happy is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2905.74,"endTime":2908.89,"body":"if they have a partner? You"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2905.74,"endTime":2908.89,"body":"know, I think that if someone's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2908.89,"endTime":2911.71,"body":"going to date, I would want them"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2908.89,"endTime":2911.71,"body":"to do it for like, healthy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2911.71,"endTime":2917.59,"body":"reasons. And right now, can, can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2911.71,"endTime":2917.59,"body":"I date? No, I can't, because I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2917.59,"endTime":2921.7,"body":"have talked with God about this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2917.59,"endTime":2921.7,"body":"multiple times. And I don't feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2921.7,"endTime":2925.15,"body":"like that's the right thing for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2921.7,"endTime":2925.15,"body":"me. And yet, I know plenty of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2925.15,"endTime":2927.34,"body":"people who feel the opposite."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2925.15,"endTime":2927.34,"body":"And it's been different for me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2927.34,"endTime":2931.36,"body":"in the past. And so all these"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2927.34,"endTime":2931.36,"body":"questions, it really comes down"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2931.36,"endTime":2936.04,"body":"to what what is, what is God"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2931.36,"endTime":2936.04,"body":"telling us? And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2936.04,"endTime":2936.64,"body":"really important."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2937.33,"endTime":2940.72,"body":"Yeah, it was kind of a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2937.33,"endTime":2940.72,"body":"lesson to me to not put limits"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2940.72,"endTime":2944.65,"body":"on what God tells me. And to not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2940.72,"endTime":2944.65,"body":"like, get so stuck on one path"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2944.65,"endTime":2946.96,"body":"that I see that I don't see that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2944.65,"endTime":2946.96,"body":"I'm supposed to be on a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2946.96,"endTime":2950.65,"body":"different one. Life is a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2946.96,"endTime":2950.65,"body":"less linear than I imagined it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2950.65,"endTime":2953.53,"body":"would be. And it almost reminds"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2950.65,"endTime":2953.53,"body":"me of the scriptures when it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2953.53,"endTime":2956.62,"body":"says like, life is a straight"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2953.53,"endTime":2956.62,"body":"and narrow path. It's not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2956.62,"endTime":2959.92,"body":"straight, like straight. It's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2956.62,"endTime":2959.92,"body":"strait, like like a strait"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2959.95,"endTime":2965.62,"body":"s-t-r-a-i-t. and a straight, has"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2959.95,"endTime":2965.62,"body":"curves and twists. And there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2965.62,"endTime":2969.04,"body":"parts where it's wider and parts"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2965.62,"endTime":2969.04,"body":"where it's thinner. And so I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2969.04,"endTime":2972.31,"body":"used to think that, like, my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2969.04,"endTime":2972.31,"body":"life would be like one direct"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2972.34,"endTime":2974.98,"body":"line, but I now realize that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2972.34,"endTime":2974.98,"body":"there's a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2974.98,"endTime":2979.0,"body":"experiences that I need to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2974.98,"endTime":2979.0,"body":"having. That that caused me to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2979.0,"endTime":2982.42,"body":"rely on the Lord and figure out"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2979.0,"endTime":2982.42,"body":"where I'm supposed to be. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2982.42,"endTime":2985.69,"body":"right now, I feel like I'm where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2982.42,"endTime":2985.69,"body":"I'm supposed to be. But I'm not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2985.69,"endTime":2987.85,"body":"saying that saying that, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2985.69,"endTime":2987.85,"body":"this is where I'm always"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2987.85,"endTime":2990.04,"body":"supposed to be because I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2987.85,"endTime":2990.04,"body":"when we do that, then we lose"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2990.07,"endTime":2993.43,"body":"out on the ability to, to choose"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2990.07,"endTime":2993.43,"body":"and then we do feel trapped."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2993.51,"endTime":2995.97,"body":"Yeah, definitely. You know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2993.51,"endTime":2995.97,"body":"what you've been saying Charlie"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2996.0,"endTime":2998.64,"body":"reminds me of something Joseph"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2996.0,"endTime":2998.64,"body":"Smith said, this is from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2998.76,"endTime":3000.92,"body":"teachings of the Prophet Joseph"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2998.76,"endTime":3000.92,"body":"Smith. I'm reading and not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3000.92,"endTime":3003.8,"body":"quoting this one. He said, \"That"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3000.92,"endTime":3003.8,"body":"which is wrong under one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3003.8,"endTime":3007.46,"body":"circumstance may be and often is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3003.8,"endTime":3007.46,"body":"right under another. God said,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3007.46,"endTime":3009.95,"body":"Thou shalt not kill. At another"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3007.46,"endTime":3009.95,"body":"time, he said, thou shalt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3009.95,"endTime":3012.53,"body":"utterly destroy. This is the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3009.95,"endTime":3012.53,"body":"principle on which the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3012.53,"endTime":3015.29,"body":"government of Heaven is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3012.53,"endTime":3015.29,"body":"conducted by revelation adapted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3015.29,"endTime":3017.36,"body":"to the circumstances in which"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3015.29,"endTime":3017.36,"body":"the children of the kingdom are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3017.36,"endTime":3020.48,"body":"placed. Whatever God requires is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3017.36,"endTime":3020.48,"body":"right no matter what it is,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3020.66,"endTime":3022.91,"body":"although we may not see the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3020.66,"endTime":3022.91,"body":"reason thereof 'til long after"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3022.91,"endTime":3025.91,"body":"the events transpire.\" Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3022.91,"endTime":3025.91,"body":"feel like for me, personally,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3025.91,"endTime":3027.71,"body":"there was a time when I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3025.91,"endTime":3027.71,"body":"supposed to be in relationship"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3027.71,"endTime":3029.63,"body":"with Jordan. And I don't feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3027.71,"endTime":3029.63,"body":"like that's what I'm supposed to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3029.63,"endTime":3031.97,"body":"be doing now. And so I move"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3029.63,"endTime":3031.97,"body":"forward with with the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3032.0,"endTime":3033.83,"body":"revelation, I feel like God has"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3032.0,"endTime":3033.83,"body":"given me now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3034.73,"endTime":3038.9,"body":"Ben you're very bold to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3034.73,"endTime":3038.9,"body":"call him by name. I will not be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3038.9,"endTime":3040.52,"body":"disclosing the names of my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3038.9,"endTime":3040.52,"body":"ex-boyfriends."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3041.42,"endTime":3045.65,"body":"I've got the one. And he's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3041.42,"endTime":3045.65,"body":"in the book. So I mean he's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3045.65,"endTime":3047.93,"body":"named in a book. So if anyone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3045.65,"endTime":3047.93,"body":"reads the book, they know his"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3047.93,"endTime":3048.23,"body":"name."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3048.83,"endTime":3050.3,"body":"I've been on a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3048.83,"endTime":3050.3,"body":"dates."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3051.11,"endTime":3054.35,"body":"I just have the one. Jordan"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3051.11,"endTime":3054.35,"body":"is the only guy I've kissed."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3054.92,"endTime":3057.11,"body":"He's the one, the one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3054.92,"endTime":3057.11,"body":"that got away. Am I right?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3057.62,"endTime":3064.16,"body":"I'm sure. No. Charlie, are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3057.62,"endTime":3064.16,"body":"you worried that by you talking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3064.16,"endTime":3066.2,"body":"about how important dating was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3064.16,"endTime":3066.2,"body":"to you that that will give"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3066.35,"endTime":3067.61,"body":"people permission to date?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3068.36,"endTime":3070.61,"body":"I don't think it's my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3068.36,"endTime":3070.61,"body":"place to give anyone permission"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3070.61,"endTime":3073.34,"body":"to date. Like if you want to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3070.61,"endTime":3073.34,"body":"date then I say take it up with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3073.34,"endTime":3077.21,"body":"God and talk to people who you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3073.34,"endTime":3077.21,"body":"trust and care about you, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3077.24,"endTime":3080.24,"body":"see if that's what you should be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3077.24,"endTime":3080.24,"body":"doing. And realize that no one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3080.24,"endTime":3084.38,"body":"decision is ever final or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3080.24,"endTime":3084.38,"body":"damning. Like that is the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3084.38,"endTime":3088.1,"body":"enabling power of the Atonement"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3084.38,"endTime":3088.1,"body":"of Jesus Christ, that we have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3088.49,"endTime":3092.24,"body":"flexibility. And we can I find"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3088.49,"endTime":3092.24,"body":"the right path."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3092.36,"endTime":3095.84,"body":"Yeah, definitely. You know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3092.36,"endTime":3095.84,"body":"I, if someone like looks to us,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3095.9,"endTime":3098.36,"body":"like, oh, well, Ben and Charlie"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3095.9,"endTime":3098.36,"body":"had same sex romantic"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3098.36,"endTime":3100.67,"body":"relationships, therefore, it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3098.36,"endTime":3100.67,"body":"okay for me to do it. I would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3100.67,"endTime":3103.19,"body":"really worry about that person."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3100.67,"endTime":3103.19,"body":"Because if someone's looking to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3103.19,"endTime":3106.55,"body":"us for permission to do things,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3103.19,"endTime":3106.55,"body":"I think that says, like less"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3106.55,"endTime":3109.25,"body":"about our experiences, and more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3106.55,"endTime":3109.25,"body":"about them and how they're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3109.25,"endTime":3111.83,"body":"making decisions. And so I would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3109.25,"endTime":3111.83,"body":"hope that no one would look to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3111.83,"endTime":3113.48,"body":"us for what decisions to make."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3111.83,"endTime":3113.48,"body":"We're just sharing our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3113.48,"endTime":3114.26,"body":"experiences."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3114.83,"endTime":3116.93,"body":"All right. Well, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3114.83,"endTime":3116.93,"body":"hope you all enjoyed our episode"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3116.93,"endTime":3117.5,"body":"on dating."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3118.76,"endTime":3120.2,"body":"On Charlie's dating"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3118.76,"endTime":3120.2,"body":"escapades."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3120.38,"endTime":3122.57,"body":"On my dating escapades."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3120.38,"endTime":3122.57,"body":"And uh..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3122.6,"endTime":3125.12,"body":"I just want to say,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3122.6,"endTime":3125.12,"body":"Charlie, we've known we had to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3125.12,"endTime":3127.07,"body":"do this episode for a while. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3125.12,"endTime":3127.07,"body":"Charlie has been very nervous to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3127.07,"endTime":3127.43,"body":"do this."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3127.47,"endTime":3129.72,"body":"I've been nervous to do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3127.47,"endTime":3129.72,"body":"this. Well, I don't, I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3129.72,"endTime":3133.77,"body":"know. I just, I really don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3129.72,"endTime":3133.77,"body":"want to, like, lose credibility."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3134.49,"endTime":3137.22,"body":"And I don't want people to think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3134.49,"endTime":3137.22,"body":"differently of me. And also kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3137.22,"endTime":3139.71,"body":"of bugs me that just because I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3137.22,"endTime":3139.71,"body":"gay, everyone feels entitled to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3139.71,"endTime":3142.95,"body":"like a full history of my dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3139.71,"endTime":3142.95,"body":"experience. Everyone asked me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3142.95,"endTime":3145.65,"body":"all the time, and I'm like, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3142.95,"endTime":3145.65,"body":"don't do this to regular people."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3145.72,"endTime":3147.34,"body":"Yeah, I don't mind giving"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3145.72,"endTime":3147.34,"body":"them my dating history. Because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3147.34,"endTime":3148.45,"body":"it's a very small pamphlet."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3148.48,"endTime":3154.81,"body":"Yeah. My mind's like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3148.48,"endTime":3154.81,"body":"trilogy. So like the Harry"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3154.81,"endTime":3157.48,"body":"Potter series. It's very, it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3154.81,"endTime":3157.48,"body":"very complex."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3157.96,"endTime":3161.23,"body":"But mine fit's all in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3157.96,"endTime":3161.23,"body":"nice short chapter in my book."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3162.19,"endTime":3164.44,"body":"I'm so glad I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3162.19,"endTime":3164.44,"body":"have to write a book about my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3164.44,"endTime":3169.45,"body":"dating. It was it was, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3164.44,"endTime":3169.45,"body":"dated for two years. We hit the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3169.45,"endTime":3172.81,"body":"tip of the iceberg. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3169.45,"endTime":3172.81,"body":"hopefully, it'll make me more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3172.81,"endTime":3175.57,"body":"comfortable sharing other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3172.81,"endTime":3175.57,"body":"experiences as I feel prompted."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3175.69,"endTime":3178.75,"body":"Yeah. And I think it's hard"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3175.69,"endTime":3178.75,"body":"when you feel like you have to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3178.75,"endTime":3179.68,"body":"keep something back."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3179.8,"endTime":3183.37,"body":"Yeah, it is. It's hard."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3179.8,"endTime":3183.37,"body":"It's hard to feel like there's a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3183.37,"endTime":3186.01,"body":"tug of war between what I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3183.37,"endTime":3186.01,"body":"allowed to say and what I feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3186.01,"endTime":3186.88,"body":"like I need to say."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3186.94,"endTime":3187.27,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3187.3,"endTime":3190.12,"body":"That's difficult. See,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3187.3,"endTime":3190.12,"body":"Episode 37."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3193.0,"endTime":3193.84,"body":"Great, we should end. We've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3193.0,"endTime":3193.84,"body":"probably been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3194.61,"endTime":3197.31,"body":"Yeah, hopefully this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3194.61,"endTime":3197.31,"body":"was entertaining. At the very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3197.31,"endTime":3199.05,"body":"least, hopefully, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3197.31,"endTime":3199.05,"body":"educational, but at the very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3199.05,"endTime":3203.85,"body":"least entertaining. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3199.05,"endTime":3203.85,"body":"for joining us today. If you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3203.85,"endTime":3205.83,"body":"have enjoyed this or other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3203.85,"endTime":3205.83,"body":"episodes, please consider"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3205.83,"endTime":3208.86,"body":"leaving a review. And as always,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3205.83,"endTime":3208.86,"body":"please remember that we do not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3208.86,"endTime":3211.23,"body":"represent the Church of Jesus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3208.86,"endTime":3211.23,"body":"Christ of Latter-day Saints or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3211.23,"endTime":3213.99,"body":"Brigham Young University. We are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3211.23,"endTime":3213.99,"body":"not trying to be prescriptive or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3213.99,"endTime":3215.67,"body":"tell anyone what to think or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3213.99,"endTime":3215.67,"body":"what to do."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3216.209,"endTime":3218.609,"body":"Your two perspectives today"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3216.209,"endTime":3218.609,"body":"and there are many, many more,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3218.669,"endTime":3220.529,"body":"we encourage you to listen to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3218.669,"endTime":3220.529,"body":"their voices and hear wide"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3220.529,"endTime":3222.869,"body":"variety of experiences. If you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3220.529,"endTime":3222.869,"body":"would like to submit a question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3222.899,"endTime":3225.659,"body":"or share a comment about today's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3222.899,"endTime":3225.659,"body":"episode, you can email us at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3225.659,"endTime":3228.209,"body":"questionsfromthecl"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3225.659,"endTime":3228.209,"body":"set@gmail.com. Until next ti"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3228.209,"endTime":3228.539,"body":"e."}]}