{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.49,"endTime":7.65,"body":"Welcome to questions"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.49,"endTime":7.65,"body":"from the closet. I'm Charlie"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":7.65,"endTime":8.04,"body":"bird."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.0,"endTime":10.82,"body":"And I'm Ben Schilaty. Each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.0,"endTime":10.82,"body":"episode we discuss a question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":10.82,"endTime":13.43,"body":"that we commonly get asked as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":10.82,"endTime":13.43,"body":"LGBTQ Latter Day Saints."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.79,"endTime":15.65,"body":"We are not trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.79,"endTime":15.65,"body":"answer this question or come to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":15.65,"endTime":18.68,"body":"a consensus but simply sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":15.65,"endTime":18.68,"body":"our perspectives. Today's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":18.68,"endTime":21.5,"body":"question is, why is gay culture"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":18.68,"endTime":21.5,"body":"so promiscuous?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":21.929,"endTime":23.549,"body":"Charlie and I are not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":21.929,"endTime":23.549,"body":"totally diverse and we share"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":23.549,"endTime":26.009,"body":"many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":23.549,"endTime":26.009,"body":"experiences. For example, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":26.009,"endTime":28.199,"body":"both love date palm trees."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":28.56,"endTime":30.51,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":28.56,"endTime":30.51,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":30.51,"endTime":33.24,"body":"example, my favorite is a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":30.51,"endTime":33.24,"body":"Mexican date palm. And Ben's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":33.24,"endTime":35.04,"body":"favorite is a Canary Island date"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":33.24,"endTime":35.04,"body":"palm."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":35.1,"endTime":36.24,"body":"I mean, they really do look"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":35.1,"endTime":36.24,"body":"different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":37.14,"endTime":40.59,"body":"They actually do. They"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":37.14,"endTime":40.59,"body":"look rather different. Um, I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":40.59,"endTime":43.14,"body":"looking to my mission photos A"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":40.59,"endTime":43.14,"body":"while ago, and I love palm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":43.14,"endTime":45.45,"body":"trees. Because where I grew up,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":43.14,"endTime":45.45,"body":"I grew up like in the very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":45.45,"endTime":49.05,"body":"center of the United States, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":45.45,"endTime":49.05,"body":"like the closest ocean was like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":49.32,"endTime":52.41,"body":"16 hours away driving. And so I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":49.32,"endTime":52.41,"body":"went to California on my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":52.41,"endTime":55.08,"body":"mission, and I was like, Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":52.41,"endTime":55.08,"body":"gosh, palm trees, and half my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":55.08,"endTime":57.96,"body":"mission photos are just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":55.08,"endTime":57.96,"body":"tropical plants that I liked."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":58.65,"endTime":60.66,"body":"Second from the northwest"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":58.65,"endTime":60.66,"body":"and the ocean, you can actually"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":60.66,"endTime":63.45,"body":"see it from my, from the roof of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":60.66,"endTime":63.45,"body":"my parents house. If there were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":63.45,"endTime":66.36,"body":"no trees you could see the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":63.45,"endTime":66.36,"body":"ocean, but it's Washington."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":66.39,"endTime":67.35,"body":"But still no palms."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":67.38,"endTime":69.75,"body":"No, there are no palms."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":67.38,"endTime":69.75,"body":"Actually, there are a couple but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":69.75,"endTime":71.67,"body":"they don't do well. People like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":69.75,"endTime":71.67,"body":"put them in their yards. It"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":71.67,"endTime":73.5,"body":"doesn't make much sense. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":71.67,"endTime":73.5,"body":"they're like the gross ones, not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":73.5,"endTime":74.7,"body":"the beautiful ones."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":74.73,"endTime":75.57,"body":"Queen palm."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":75.6,"endTime":76.26,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":76.29,"endTime":77.13,"body":"Don't get me started."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":77.46,"endTime":79.77,"body":"But it's good that we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":77.46,"endTime":79.77,"body":"talking about date palms on a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.8,"endTime":80.64,"body":"episode about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":81.15,"endTime":82.23,"body":"Promiscuity..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":82.23,"endTime":87.42,"body":"No, like, we talk about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":82.23,"endTime":87.42,"body":"dating and stuff. Anyway, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":87.42,"endTime":89.85,"body":"would like to provide a variety"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":87.42,"endTime":89.85,"body":"of voices and perspectives. So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":89.85,"endTime":91.29,"body":"today, we're joined by Derrick"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":89.85,"endTime":91.29,"body":"Lindell."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":91.529,"endTime":92.129,"body":"Hi, guys."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":92.34,"endTime":94.35,"body":"So Derek, tell us a little"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":92.34,"endTime":94.35,"body":"bit about yourself. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":94.87,"endTime":98.95,"body":"I live here in Utah. In"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":94.87,"endTime":98.95,"body":"bluffdale. Actually, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":99.19,"endTime":101.29,"body":"senior research analysts up"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":99.19,"endTime":101.29,"body":"there at the U"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":101.35,"endTime":102.13,"body":"Sr, huh?"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":102.16,"endTime":104.38,"body":"Yeah. I mean, I should"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":102.16,"endTime":104.38,"body":"just say, you know, analyst"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":104.38,"endTime":105.46,"body":"cause I sound like I'm..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":105.91,"endTime":107.44,"body":"No be pretentious. We"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":105.91,"endTime":107.44,"body":"love it."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":108.58,"endTime":110.53,"body":"But yeah, other than"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":108.58,"endTime":110.53,"body":"that, I'm basically like,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":110.53,"endTime":113.47,"body":"usually outdoors playing tennis,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":110.53,"endTime":113.47,"body":"running in the mountains,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":114.16,"endTime":117.82,"body":"baking, cooking. Like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":114.16,"endTime":117.82,"body":"know if you guys like that type"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":117.82,"endTime":118.18,"body":"of stuff."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":118.21,"endTime":120.34,"body":"I like to eat things that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":118.21,"endTime":120.34,"body":"have been baked or cooked."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":120.45,"endTime":123.48,"body":"Okay. Well, I might"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":120.45,"endTime":123.48,"body":"have to bring some by. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":123.51,"endTime":126.9,"body":"other than that, I'm pretty"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":123.51,"endTime":126.9,"body":"boring. Like, I just like to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":126.93,"endTime":127.59,"body":"cook and..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":128.95,"endTime":132.64,"body":"Way to sell yourself."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":128.95,"endTime":132.64,"body":"I'm Derrick and I'm boring."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":132.73,"endTime":133.33,"body":"Like my net--Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":134.62,"endTime":136.15,"body":"So we have Derek today. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":134.62,"endTime":136.15,"body":"he's boring."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":136.18,"endTime":139.15,"body":"Yeah. So basically,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":136.18,"endTime":139.15,"body":"during COVID that's all I've"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":139.15,"endTime":139.87,"body":"been doing is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":139.87,"endTime":141.07,"body":"That's all you really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":139.87,"endTime":141.07,"body":"can do."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":141.0,"endTime":144.78,"body":"Yeah. So today, we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":141.0,"endTime":144.78,"body":"talking about the promiscuity"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":144.81,"endTime":148.23,"body":"that that could exist in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":144.81,"endTime":148.23,"body":"LGBTQ world. I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":148.23,"endTime":152.4,"body":"I'm gonna say about this,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":148.23,"endTime":152.4,"body":"because I haven't been involved."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":152.43,"endTime":154.77,"body":"So, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":155.44,"endTime":157.48,"body":"Well, this is something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":155.44,"endTime":157.48,"body":"that I think is really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":157.48,"endTime":160.15,"body":"important. On this show, we try"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":157.48,"endTime":160.15,"body":"really hard to get like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":160.15,"endTime":163.87,"body":"diverse range of topics and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":160.15,"endTime":163.87,"body":"perspectives and people. At the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":163.87,"endTime":166.48,"body":"same time, today, we are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":163.87,"endTime":166.48,"body":"talking, we are like three white"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":166.48,"endTime":170.53,"body":"gay men talking about male gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":166.48,"endTime":170.53,"body":"culture. So hopefully, it's not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":170.56,"endTime":172.9,"body":"too niche, but you can kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":170.56,"endTime":172.9,"body":"glean something. But this is a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":172.9,"endTime":176.32,"body":"question I get asked a lot. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":172.9,"endTime":176.32,"body":"I feel like within like gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":176.32,"endTime":178.78,"body":"people, it's something that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":176.32,"endTime":178.78,"body":"kind of, at least for me was a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":178.78,"endTime":181.93,"body":"little bit shocking when I first"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":178.78,"endTime":181.93,"body":"was making this making this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":181.93,"endTime":185.71,"body":"realization. And at the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":181.93,"endTime":185.71,"body":"time outside in the straight"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":185.71,"endTime":188.26,"body":"community, I don't know, just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":185.71,"endTime":188.26,"body":"like in regular life, there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":188.26,"endTime":191.41,"body":"this kind of like a stereotype"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":188.26,"endTime":191.41,"body":"that, that gay men are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":191.41,"endTime":195.25,"body":"promiscuous and overtly sexual."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":191.41,"endTime":195.25,"body":"And so I just wanted to kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":195.25,"endTime":196.63,"body":"talk about that. And..."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":196.83,"endTime":200.4,"body":"it's a tricky"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":196.83,"endTime":200.4,"body":"conversation. I mean, my"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":200.91,"endTime":204.48,"body":"viewpoint has changed over the"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":200.91,"endTime":204.48,"body":"years, like, I was very much"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":204.48,"endTime":207.3,"body":"like, I'm going to be celibate,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":204.48,"endTime":207.3,"body":"I'm going to marry a woman to,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":207.63,"endTime":212.49,"body":"I'm going to marry a man. And I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":207.63,"endTime":212.49,"body":"want to find a happy in between"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":212.49,"endTime":215.31,"body":"for both of those. And, you"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":212.49,"endTime":215.31,"body":"know, people said that you can't"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":215.31,"endTime":217.89,"body":"do one or the other people said,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":215.31,"endTime":217.89,"body":"you know, you're going to go off"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":217.89,"endTime":221.37,"body":"the deep end, and you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":217.89,"endTime":221.37,"body":"want to sleep around and do X,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":221.37,"endTime":225.51,"body":"Y, and Z. And that never sat"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":221.37,"endTime":225.51,"body":"well with me. So I feel like I'm"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":225.84,"endTime":229.5,"body":"a happy medium where I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":225.84,"endTime":229.5,"body":"it's okay to have, you know,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":229.56,"endTime":233.64,"body":"express your sexual identity,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":229.56,"endTime":233.64,"body":"but also keep your morals. You"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":233.64,"endTime":237.24,"body":"don't have to do one or the"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":233.64,"endTime":237.24,"body":"other, contrary to what everyone"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":237.48,"endTime":238.2,"body":"likes to say."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":238.3,"endTime":240.31,"body":"So you were warned by"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":238.3,"endTime":240.31,"body":"people that you would be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":240.31,"endTime":241.0,"body":"promiscuous?"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":241.03,"endTime":243.52,"body":"Oh, yeah. It was like,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":241.03,"endTime":243.52,"body":"you're gonna get into drugs,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":243.55,"endTime":246.82,"body":"alcohol, like you're gonna sleep"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":243.55,"endTime":246.82,"body":"with a million people. And I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":246.82,"endTime":249.16,"body":"mean, I had like extended family"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":246.82,"endTime":249.16,"body":"members who said I was going to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":250.66,"endTime":255.1,"body":"die of a gay disease. So it was"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":250.66,"endTime":255.1,"body":"very much two opposite ends that"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":255.1,"endTime":256.78,"body":"were just very much against each"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":255.1,"endTime":256.78,"body":"other."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":257.17,"endTime":258.43,"body":"And that isn't what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":257.17,"endTime":258.43,"body":"happened to you."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":259.0,"endTime":259.39,"body":"No, no."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":260.17,"endTime":263.8,"body":"So I remember the first"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":260.17,"endTime":263.8,"body":"time I caught a glimpse of this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":263.83,"endTime":267.88,"body":"world, I was, I was not out, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":263.83,"endTime":267.88,"body":"was out to a few friends and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":267.91,"endTime":271.45,"body":"most of my family, and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":267.91,"endTime":271.45,"body":"kind of getting fed up with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":271.45,"endTime":275.68,"body":"being in that position. I never"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":271.45,"endTime":275.68,"body":"really been around like, gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":275.71,"endTime":279.22,"body":"people. And so I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":275.71,"endTime":279.22,"body":"trying to make friends and I got"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":279.22,"endTime":284.17,"body":"invited to this party. And it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":279.22,"endTime":284.17,"body":"was by someone who I thought was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":284.17,"endTime":286.72,"body":"kind of like trustworthy, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":284.17,"endTime":286.72,"body":"was like, you know what, I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":286.72,"endTime":289.87,"body":"know this person. Well, but they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":286.72,"endTime":289.87,"body":"seem okay. And I'm going to go"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":289.87,"endTime":291.79,"body":"and see what it's like, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":289.87,"endTime":291.79,"body":"maybe I'll find my people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":292.09,"endTime":297.1,"body":"because I was looking for my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":292.09,"endTime":297.1,"body":"people. And I went alone. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":297.1,"endTime":300.01,"body":"don't want to talk about it too"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":297.1,"endTime":300.01,"body":"much, because it really stresses"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":300.01,"endTime":303.52,"body":"we out to talk about, but I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":300.01,"endTime":303.52,"body":"thought it was like, honestly, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":303.52,"endTime":306.16,"body":"maybe I was just naive, but I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":303.52,"endTime":306.16,"body":"was going in thinking like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":306.19,"endTime":309.91,"body":"it's gonna be like a nice"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":306.19,"endTime":309.91,"body":"gathering. And it was like, a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":309.91,"endTime":314.35,"body":"raging crazy party. And there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":309.91,"endTime":314.35,"body":"were people throwing up. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":314.35,"endTime":318.13,"body":"was like, there were multiple,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":314.35,"endTime":318.13,"body":"like, aggressive sexual advances"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":318.13,"endTime":322.9,"body":"that were made on me. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":318.13,"endTime":322.9,"body":"just kind of like, frozen. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":322.9,"endTime":325.66,"body":"was shaking there. And people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":322.9,"endTime":325.66,"body":"were offering me drugs. And I'd"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":325.66,"endTime":330.34,"body":"been there for like, three"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":325.66,"endTime":330.34,"body":"minutes. And I was like, what, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":330.34,"endTime":333.04,"body":"guess I didn't like go to high"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":330.34,"endTime":333.04,"body":"school parties or college"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":333.04,"endTime":335.77,"body":"parties. So I didn't really know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":333.04,"endTime":335.77,"body":"what to expect, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":336.34,"endTime":339.73,"body":"because I kind of like had an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":336.34,"endTime":339.73,"body":"idea of what people were like at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":339.73,"endTime":341.95,"body":"school. And so I would know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":339.73,"endTime":341.95,"body":"like, who to associate with and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":341.95,"endTime":344.2,"body":"who to not do. But when I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":341.95,"endTime":344.2,"body":"stepped into this world, I had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":344.2,"endTime":347.53,"body":"no context of who was who and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":344.2,"endTime":347.53,"body":"who believed what and who acted"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":347.53,"endTime":351.94,"body":"what way, you know. And I showed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":347.53,"endTime":351.94,"body":"up there and I was devastated, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":351.94,"endTime":355.54,"body":"left immediately, and I just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":351.94,"endTime":355.54,"body":"called my sister and I cried."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":356.2,"endTime":358.9,"body":"And I was like, This is supposed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":356.2,"endTime":358.9,"body":"to be my community. This is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":358.9,"endTime":361.21,"body":"supposed to be my group. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":358.9,"endTime":361.21,"body":"they were mocking me and making"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":361.21,"endTime":364.84,"body":"fun of me and trying to force me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":361.21,"endTime":364.84,"body":"to do things that like, are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":364.84,"endTime":368.29,"body":"repulsive to me. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":364.84,"endTime":368.29,"body":"really, really upset about it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":368.38,"endTime":371.17,"body":"And that's a reality that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":368.38,"endTime":371.17,"body":"exists. And I don't want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":371.17,"endTime":373.84,"body":"everyone listening to think that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":371.17,"endTime":373.84,"body":"all gay people are like that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":373.87,"endTime":375.91,"body":"because like, I've been to other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":373.87,"endTime":375.91,"body":"gay parties that have been like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":375.91,"endTime":378.46,"body":"incredible and super uplifting."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":375.91,"endTime":378.46,"body":"I've been to like, Come Follow"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":378.46,"endTime":382.12,"body":"Me, gay edition, you know. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":378.46,"endTime":382.12,"body":"like..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":382.15,"endTime":382.75,"body":"It is fun."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":382.81,"endTime":386.53,"body":"It is fun. And so it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":382.81,"endTime":386.53,"body":"not all like that, but it is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":386.53,"endTime":390.82,"body":"there. And it's, and it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":386.53,"endTime":390.82,"body":"something that I never was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":390.82,"endTime":393.79,"body":"seeking out. But it's something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":390.82,"endTime":393.79,"body":"that like, came to me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":393.85,"endTime":394.72,"body":"accidentally,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":395.08,"endTime":398.59,"body":"See I don't get invited to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":395.08,"endTime":398.59,"body":"parties. So. Also I'm sorry,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":398.59,"endTime":399.25,"body":"that happened to Charlie."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":401.76,"endTime":404.4,"body":"Unfortunately, that"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":401.76,"endTime":404.4,"body":"happens a lot. When you're newly"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":404.4,"endTime":407.31,"body":"coming out, trying to understand"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":404.4,"endTime":407.31,"body":"yourself, and you're just"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":407.31,"endTime":411.96,"body":"wanting to connect with people."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":407.31,"endTime":411.96,"body":"And people, some people do see"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":411.96,"endTime":414.6,"body":"that as an advantage, and they"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":411.96,"endTime":414.6,"body":"try and take advantage of"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":414.6,"endTime":418.41,"body":"people. But conversely, there"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":414.6,"endTime":418.41,"body":"are people who, you know, will"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":418.41,"endTime":420.21,"body":"have a gay party, and then"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":418.41,"endTime":420.21,"body":"they're like, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":420.21,"endTime":423.9,"body":"gonna be like, just a chill"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":420.21,"endTime":423.9,"body":"event. And you know, you learn"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":423.9,"endTime":427.02,"body":"to trust your instincts more, I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":423.9,"endTime":427.02,"body":"think with time as it goes on."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":427.41,"endTime":429.99,"body":"And not to say like, one"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":427.41,"endTime":429.99,"body":"lifestyle is better than the"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":429.99,"endTime":434.31,"body":"other. But I know for myself,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":429.99,"endTime":434.31,"body":"like, I'm not a party rager."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":434.31,"endTime":438.27,"body":"Like, I like the good food. And"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":434.31,"endTime":438.27,"body":"I like, you know, watching a"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":438.27,"endTime":442.5,"body":"movie or something like fun and"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":438.27,"endTime":442.5,"body":"productive. But a lot of like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":442.5,"endTime":445.29,"body":"the gay culture that is"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":442.5,"endTime":445.29,"body":"associated with it says that it"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":445.29,"endTime":447.69,"body":"needs to be a certain way when"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":445.29,"endTime":447.69,"body":"that's not the case."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":447.78,"endTime":450.36,"body":"So you're saying, Derek,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":447.78,"endTime":450.36,"body":"that some people wanting to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":450.36,"endTime":453.75,"body":"connect will get into situations"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":450.36,"endTime":453.75,"body":"where they might compromise"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":453.78,"endTime":456.0,"body":"maybe their own values to fit"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":453.78,"endTime":456.0,"body":"in?"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":456.12,"endTime":458.91,"body":"Oh, yeah. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":456.12,"endTime":458.91,"body":"think for myself, like I've"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":459.42,"endTime":464.13,"body":"given in on some of my morals,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":459.42,"endTime":464.13,"body":"and in those situations, and"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":464.55,"endTime":468.48,"body":"afterwards, I left thinking,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":464.55,"endTime":468.48,"body":"what did I do? What was I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":468.48,"endTime":471.21,"body":"thinking. I should have"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":468.48,"endTime":471.21,"body":"immediately, like, left the"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":471.21,"endTime":474.99,"body":"party or I left that situation,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":471.21,"endTime":474.99,"body":"but someone to try, like I had"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":474.99,"endTime":478.59,"body":"freezing moments where it was"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":474.99,"endTime":478.59,"body":"like, I want to disconnect, I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":478.59,"endTime":482.7,"body":"want to be with someone who I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":478.59,"endTime":482.7,"body":"can not have to feel pressured"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":482.7,"endTime":487.41,"body":"to act or be a certain way,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":482.7,"endTime":487.41,"body":"that's not who I am. But finding"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":487.41,"endTime":489.75,"body":"those people is sometimes more"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":487.41,"endTime":489.75,"body":"difficult when you're first"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":489.75,"endTime":490.32,"body":"coming out."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":490.9,"endTime":493.0,"body":"I've actually done a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":490.9,"endTime":493.0,"body":"lot of, like, put a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":493.0,"endTime":497.05,"body":"thought and introspection into"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":493.0,"endTime":497.05,"body":"this idea. Because I for a while"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":497.05,"endTime":500.35,"body":"it was really hard for me to not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":497.05,"endTime":500.35,"body":"hate gay people after this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":500.35,"endTime":503.86,"body":"experience. And the more I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":500.35,"endTime":503.86,"body":"thought about it, and like even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":503.86,"endTime":506.23,"body":"like looking at history, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":503.86,"endTime":506.23,"body":"like the history of LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":506.23,"endTime":509.56,"body":"rights, and, and this people,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":506.23,"endTime":509.56,"body":"this demographic of people that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":509.56,"endTime":514.09,"body":"has been shoved into a box,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":509.56,"endTime":514.09,"body":"their entire lives, I started to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":514.09,"endTime":517.48,"body":"develop a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":514.09,"endTime":517.48,"body":"empathy by realizing that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":517.66,"endTime":522.43,"body":"basically this like, you isolate"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":517.66,"endTime":522.43,"body":"these people, you make them feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":522.43,"endTime":525.07,"body":"like they have to change"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":522.43,"endTime":525.07,"body":"themselves and make themselves"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":525.07,"endTime":529.12,"body":"smaller and conform to something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":525.07,"endTime":529.12,"body":"that they do not fit in at all."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":529.3,"endTime":532.12,"body":"And it's like people like gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":529.3,"endTime":532.12,"body":"people always jump off the deep"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":532.12,"endTime":536.11,"body":"end, but I'm like, yeah, they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":532.12,"endTime":536.11,"body":"do. Because there's so much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":536.11,"endTime":540.37,"body":"like, pent up emotion and rage"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":536.11,"endTime":540.37,"body":"and insecurity, that just gets"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":540.37,"endTime":543.22,"body":"released all the sudden. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":540.37,"endTime":543.22,"body":"then there's so much like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":543.22,"endTime":545.92,"body":"thrwarted belonging. I've been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":543.22,"endTime":545.92,"body":"using that term a lot lately,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":545.92,"endTime":546.94,"body":"but I really like it like..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":546.94,"endTime":547.93,"body":"Oh, the social work"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":546.94,"endTime":547.93,"body":"program."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":547.93,"endTime":551.44,"body":"Oh I'm in the social work"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":547.93,"endTime":551.44,"body":"program now. But like, you have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":551.44,"endTime":554.11,"body":"this search for belonging in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":551.44,"endTime":554.11,"body":"your own community, in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":554.11,"endTime":556.39,"body":"religious community or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":554.11,"endTime":556.39,"body":"conservative community, there's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":556.39,"endTime":560.11,"body":"no belonging there. And then you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":556.39,"endTime":560.11,"body":"you want to like, lash out and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":560.11,"endTime":563.26,"body":"just jump into the opposite pool"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":560.11,"endTime":563.26,"body":"because you've been in that one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":563.26,"endTime":563.86,"body":"so long."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":564.2,"endTime":566.12,"body":"Yeah, that's something I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":564.2,"endTime":566.12,"body":"thought about too, because a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":566.12,"endTime":570.56,"body":"of the people who I've seen"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":566.12,"endTime":570.56,"body":"start looking into the gay world"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":570.56,"endTime":573.89,"body":"and starting to look for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":570.56,"endTime":573.89,"body":"romantic experiences, they often"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":573.89,"endTime":578.36,"body":"meet people online, or all these"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":573.89,"endTime":578.36,"body":"things happen in secret. And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":578.36,"endTime":580.4,"body":"they end up in really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":578.36,"endTime":580.4,"body":"compromised situations where if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":580.4,"endTime":584.48,"body":"it were more talked about more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":580.4,"endTime":584.48,"body":"open, they could be in a more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":584.69,"endTime":587.57,"body":"typical relationship. These"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":584.69,"endTime":587.57,"body":"things don't have to hide. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":587.57,"endTime":589.7,"body":"there's that pendulum swing of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":587.57,"endTime":589.7,"body":"well, I'm like this and now I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":589.7,"endTime":593.51,"body":"the opposite. And I think if we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":589.7,"endTime":593.51,"body":"create a culture where people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":593.51,"endTime":595.94,"body":"could be more open about who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":593.51,"endTime":595.94,"body":"they were and what was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":595.94,"endTime":598.19,"body":"happening, then they wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":595.94,"endTime":598.19,"body":"have, they wouldn't end up in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":598.19,"endTime":599.54,"body":"these compromising situations."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":599.84,"endTime":601.82,"body":"Yeah, if I had a friend"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":599.84,"endTime":601.82,"body":"there, like, if I would have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":601.82,"endTime":603.95,"body":"been comfortable inviting one of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":601.82,"endTime":603.95,"body":"my friends to go to that party"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":603.95,"endTime":606.35,"body":"with me, I would have had a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":603.95,"endTime":606.35,"body":"completely different experience."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":606.47,"endTime":609.95,"body":"And I would have felt much more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":606.47,"endTime":609.95,"body":"safe and seen and leaving would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":609.95,"endTime":612.83,"body":"have been easier. And I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":609.95,"endTime":612.83,"body":"have had to like, it wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":612.83,"endTime":614.84,"body":"have been like me versus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":612.83,"endTime":614.84,"body":"everyone else, right? It would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":614.84,"endTime":617.84,"body":"be like us, and hey, let's go,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":614.84,"endTime":617.84,"body":"you know?"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":618.38,"endTime":621.8,"body":"I've had like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":618.38,"endTime":621.8,"body":"experiences. And this isn't to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":621.8,"endTime":624.56,"body":"like judge people, or say that"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":621.8,"endTime":624.56,"body":"they need to be a certain way."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":624.56,"endTime":628.43,"body":"But at the same point, you can"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":624.56,"endTime":628.43,"body":"understand and explore things in"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":628.43,"endTime":632.0,"body":"a healthy way. Like you can, I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":628.43,"endTime":632.0,"body":"think that's a great idea, like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":632.0,"endTime":634.97,"body":"having a friend come with you to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":632.0,"endTime":634.97,"body":"like your first events, someone"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":634.97,"endTime":637.31,"body":"who you trust someone who's also"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":634.97,"endTime":637.31,"body":"going to have your back and be"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":637.31,"endTime":640.85,"body":"like, hey, I don't feel"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":637.31,"endTime":640.85,"body":"comfortable, like let's go or"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":641.03,"endTime":643.67,"body":"you can like, they'll probably"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":641.03,"endTime":643.67,"body":"like be able to reach out to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":643.67,"endTime":645.59,"body":"other people. And then you can"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":643.67,"endTime":645.59,"body":"all come together and have a"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":645.59,"endTime":648.8,"body":"better consensus of this is the"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":645.59,"endTime":648.8,"body":"type of party that I want to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":648.8,"endTime":649.25,"body":"attend."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":650.13,"endTime":651.78,"body":"Yeah, it's not even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":650.13,"endTime":651.78,"body":"just parties, though. Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":651.84,"endTime":656.19,"body":"it's, I feel like in dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":651.84,"endTime":656.19,"body":"culture in general, like, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":656.19,"endTime":659.16,"body":"Ben was saying, a lot of it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":656.19,"endTime":659.16,"body":"like, like, you don't know who's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":659.16,"endTime":662.28,"body":"gay, right? Like, if you, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":659.16,"endTime":662.28,"body":"mean, sometimes, I guess you can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":662.28,"endTime":664.17,"body":"kind of guess. And I'm actually"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":662.28,"endTime":664.17,"body":"pretty good."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":665.23,"endTime":666.76,"body":"That just means you're good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":665.23,"endTime":666.76,"body":"at stereotyping."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":666.75,"endTime":668.61,"body":"Exactly. Like, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":666.75,"endTime":668.61,"body":"some people do fit the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":668.61,"endTime":672.33,"body":"stereotype. So you kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":668.61,"endTime":672.33,"body":"have an idea. But at the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":672.33,"endTime":674.61,"body":"time, like you don't really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":672.33,"endTime":674.61,"body":"know, it's, it's like a status"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":674.61,"endTime":680.43,"body":"that goes unseen, right? And so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":674.61,"endTime":680.43,"body":"like, especially in a dating"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":680.43,"endTime":685.32,"body":"world, it's it's apps, it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":680.43,"endTime":685.32,"body":"bars, it's clubs, it's things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":685.32,"endTime":689.43,"body":"like that. And like society"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":685.32,"endTime":689.43,"body":"isn't open about it enough yet"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":689.43,"endTime":692.43,"body":"to where you can just meet"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":689.43,"endTime":692.43,"body":"someone organically, right. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":692.43,"endTime":695.76,"body":"so I feel like a lot of times"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":692.43,"endTime":695.76,"body":"when people decide to date, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":695.76,"endTime":699.63,"body":"they have no experience, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":695.76,"endTime":699.63,"body":"they're probably insecure, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":699.63,"endTime":702.33,"body":"feeling completely overwhelmed."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":699.63,"endTime":702.33,"body":"The first idea is like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":702.33,"endTime":705.33,"body":"going to go to a gay bar and try"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":702.33,"endTime":705.33,"body":"to meet someone, when they've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":705.33,"endTime":707.37,"body":"never been to a bar in their"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":705.33,"endTime":707.37,"body":"life. You know, I mean, they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":707.37,"endTime":711.09,"body":"like, going from Elders Quorum"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":707.37,"endTime":711.09,"body":"to a gay bar immediately. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":711.09,"endTime":713.79,"body":"that's just like, not healthy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":711.09,"endTime":713.79,"body":"And I don't even think it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":713.79,"endTime":717.3,"body":"necessary. And I would love to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":713.79,"endTime":717.3,"body":"see a cultural shift, where gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":717.3,"endTime":720.06,"body":"people who are deciding to date,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":717.3,"endTime":720.06,"body":"they can do it in a more like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":720.09,"endTime":723.09,"body":"open, natural, organic"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":720.09,"endTime":723.09,"body":"environment, rather than putting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":723.09,"endTime":725.07,"body":"themselves into compromising"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":723.09,"endTime":725.07,"body":"situations alone."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":725.3,"endTime":727.52,"body":"That's a good point. Like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":725.3,"endTime":727.52,"body":"when I was 29, and considering"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":727.52,"endTime":730.1,"body":"taking what I call a sabbatical"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":727.52,"endTime":730.1,"body":"from church. I was like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":730.1,"endTime":732.32,"body":"gonna start dating guys. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":730.1,"endTime":732.32,"body":"was like, how do you even do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":732.32,"endTime":735.53,"body":"that? Like, I didn't even know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":732.32,"endTime":735.53,"body":"how to begin dating. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":735.53,"endTime":737.99,"body":"thought there was a gay bar in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":735.53,"endTime":737.99,"body":"Tucson like, I guess I go to the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":737.99,"endTime":741.02,"body":"gay bar. I didn't ever end up"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":737.99,"endTime":741.02,"body":"going. But you know, that's, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":741.02,"endTime":741.95,"body":"thought that's what I had to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":742.26,"endTime":744.48,"body":"It's fine if someone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":742.26,"endTime":744.48,"body":"wants to go to a gay bar, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":744.48,"endTime":746.73,"body":"like, I don't. So..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":746.82,"endTime":748.47,"body":"The music is too loud. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":746.82,"endTime":748.47,"body":"assume."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":748.8,"endTime":750.09,"body":"Oh I love loud music,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":748.8,"endTime":750.09,"body":"though."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":750.15,"endTime":751.29,"body":"Loud music is the worst."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":754.75,"endTime":756.85,"body":"So I actually had like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":754.75,"endTime":756.85,"body":"an interesting experience when I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":756.85,"endTime":760.42,"body":"was first coming out. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":756.85,"endTime":760.42,"body":"really have a place and like you"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":760.42,"endTime":764.71,"body":"said, it wasn't really a safe. I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":760.42,"endTime":764.71,"body":"lived up in Logan, like, when I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":764.71,"endTime":767.71,"body":"was first realizing like my true"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":764.71,"endTime":767.71,"body":"sexuality. I was going to Utah"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":767.71,"endTime":771.58,"body":"State and I met you know, some"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":767.71,"endTime":771.58,"body":"people who were introducing me"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":771.58,"endTime":774.73,"body":"to the gay culture. And they"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":771.58,"endTime":774.73,"body":"brought me down to Salt Lake to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":774.73,"endTime":778.48,"body":"go to the gay clubs. And it was"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":774.73,"endTime":778.48,"body":"incredible, but at the same"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":778.48,"endTime":783.67,"body":"point, terrifying. And also I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":778.48,"endTime":783.67,"body":"was violated in other ways. But"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":784.48,"endTime":788.02,"body":"it was still just like this"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":784.48,"endTime":788.02,"body":"freeing slash terrifying moment"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":788.02,"endTime":790.87,"body":"that I didn't really understand"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":788.02,"endTime":790.87,"body":"what was what everything that"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":790.87,"endTime":794.23,"body":"was happening. And so after"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":790.87,"endTime":794.23,"body":"that, like I was like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":794.23,"endTime":797.62,"body":"know if I really like this. And"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":794.23,"endTime":797.62,"body":"you know, I would go with my"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":797.62,"endTime":799.93,"body":"friends every now and then if"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":797.62,"endTime":799.93,"body":"they wanted to go dancing, and I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":799.93,"endTime":802.6,"body":"was like, oh, we can go this."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":799.93,"endTime":802.6,"body":"But everyone say, like, you need"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":802.6,"endTime":805.24,"body":"to drink, you need to do this."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":802.6,"endTime":805.24,"body":"And I was like, No, like,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":805.24,"endTime":808.18,"body":"that's, I'm not I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":805.24,"endTime":808.18,"body":"do that. And there was always"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":808.18,"endTime":813.28,"body":"that pressure to fit in. But the"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":808.18,"endTime":813.28,"body":"thing is, is when you're"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":813.28,"endTime":817.21,"body":"exploring, it's best to like, be"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":813.28,"endTime":817.21,"body":"with people that you can trust."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":817.21,"endTime":821.35,"body":"I keep reiterating that. It's,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":817.21,"endTime":821.35,"body":"it's so hard, though to just do"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":821.35,"endTime":822.64,"body":"it and go at it alone."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":822.94,"endTime":824.89,"body":"Derrick how did you get to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":822.94,"endTime":824.89,"body":"a place where you were able to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":824.92,"endTime":827.17,"body":"have that kind of self"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":824.92,"endTime":827.17,"body":"confidence to say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":827.17,"endTime":829.66,"body":"you're pressuring me to do this,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":827.17,"endTime":829.66,"body":"but I don't want to,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":829.44,"endTime":833.01,"body":"You know, people said"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":829.44,"endTime":833.01,"body":"that I needed to do this. And"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":833.01,"endTime":836.82,"body":"I'm already a strong headed"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":833.01,"endTime":836.82,"body":"personality. And I just said,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":836.85,"endTime":840.03,"body":"no, like, there were a lot of"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":836.85,"endTime":840.03,"body":"times where I just had to stick"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":840.03,"endTime":842.31,"body":"up for my ground and say, no,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":840.03,"endTime":842.31,"body":"that's not something that I want"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":842.31,"endTime":846.48,"body":"to do. And there was constant"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":842.31,"endTime":846.48,"body":"pressure, like from people I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":846.48,"endTime":850.17,"body":"dated to groups that we were"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":846.48,"endTime":850.17,"body":"with where I was like, no, it's"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":850.17,"endTime":853.2,"body":"great. Like, just go ahead and"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":850.17,"endTime":853.2,"body":"do it. And I'm not saying I was"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":853.2,"endTime":857.01,"body":"perfect all the time. But again,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":853.2,"endTime":857.01,"body":"it was you need to do this in"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":857.01,"endTime":863.01,"body":"order to be happy. And I decided"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":857.01,"endTime":863.01,"body":"for myself, my morals, like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":863.13,"endTime":867.21,"body":"whether or not I like stayed in"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":863.13,"endTime":867.21,"body":"the church, I needed to base my"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":867.21,"endTime":870.48,"body":"morals off of what I knew to be"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":867.21,"endTime":870.48,"body":"right. And to me, that was"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":870.48,"endTime":873.48,"body":"something that I knew wasn't"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":870.48,"endTime":873.48,"body":"right for myself. Easier said"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":873.48,"endTime":877.05,"body":"than done. Like, again, not"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":873.48,"endTime":877.05,"body":"preaching from a perfection"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":877.05,"endTime":880.68,"body":"stand over here. But like, I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":877.05,"endTime":880.68,"body":"wish that when I was coming out,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":880.68,"endTime":885.9,"body":"the people said that you can"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":880.68,"endTime":885.9,"body":"keep your morals and you know, I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":885.96,"endTime":889.14,"body":"at this point in my life, I see"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":885.96,"endTime":889.14,"body":"people who are coming out and"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":889.14,"endTime":892.02,"body":"they have placed their entire"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":889.14,"endTime":892.02,"body":"morals with either religion and"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":892.02,"endTime":895.59,"body":"or family values. And once"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":892.02,"endTime":895.59,"body":"they're either no longer"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":895.59,"endTime":899.19,"body":"accepted with their family or no"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":895.59,"endTime":899.19,"body":"longer accepted at their church,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":899.19,"endTime":901.41,"body":"they throw everything out. It's"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":899.19,"endTime":901.41,"body":"like a rubber band that's been"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":901.41,"endTime":904.17,"body":"pulled all the way to the right."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":901.41,"endTime":904.17,"body":"And then as soon as they pull"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":904.17,"endTime":907.11,"body":"out that one pin, it just"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":904.17,"endTime":907.11,"body":"ricochets all the way to the"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":907.11,"endTime":910.59,"body":"left. So finding like your"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":907.11,"endTime":910.59,"body":"morals within yourself, not"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":910.59,"endTime":914.31,"body":"necessarily because of x, y, and"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":910.59,"endTime":914.31,"body":"z but because this is somethin"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":914.31,"endTime":915.18,"body":"that feels good t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":916.51,"endTime":922.45,"body":"So there's a real danger in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":916.51,"endTime":922.45,"body":"basing your values on some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":922.45,"endTime":925.54,"body":"external, something external."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":922.45,"endTime":925.54,"body":"And what you're saying is find"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":925.54,"endTime":927.4,"body":"your own internal values and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":925.54,"endTime":927.4,"body":"make sure you're living those."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":927.45,"endTime":929.52,"body":"Yeah, and I'm not"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":927.45,"endTime":929.52,"body":"saying like religion or family"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":929.52,"endTime":933.21,"body":"values are bad, or that that's"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":929.52,"endTime":933.21,"body":"not a good place to put them in."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":933.54,"endTime":939.12,"body":"But morals originated far for"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":933.54,"endTime":939.12,"body":"the church than before, like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":939.12,"endTime":942.87,"body":"family members like it. There's"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":939.12,"endTime":942.87,"body":"a reason why we're to this"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":942.87,"endTime":947.76,"body":"moment today, when we can be"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":942.87,"endTime":947.76,"body":"like, Oh, my morals is this"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":947.76,"endTime":952.47,"body":"because I see it as a benefit or"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":947.76,"endTime":952.47,"body":"I see it as I don't have to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":952.77,"endTime":956.22,"body":"worry about, you know, drunk"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":952.77,"endTime":956.22,"body":"driving. I don't have to worry"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":956.22,"endTime":959.7,"body":"about getting high and not being"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":956.22,"endTime":959.7,"body":"able to, like take myself home"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":959.7,"endTime":963.06,"body":"or take care of me. So there's"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":959.7,"endTime":963.06,"body":"like some real, real life"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":963.06,"endTime":966.27,"body":"lessons from just understanding"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":963.06,"endTime":966.27,"body":"your own morals and what's in"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":966.27,"endTime":967.86,"body":"the best situation for yourself?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":968.49,"endTime":969.9,"body":"Well, I also think it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":968.49,"endTime":969.9,"body":"important to realize that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":969.9,"endTime":971.31,"body":"there's not a point of no"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":969.9,"endTime":971.31,"body":"return."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":971.4,"endTime":971.7,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":971.73,"endTime":973.59,"body":"Like, a lot of times,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":971.73,"endTime":973.59,"body":"we'll have a friend who starts"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":973.59,"endTime":976.41,"body":"dating, and they're like, well,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":973.59,"endTime":976.41,"body":"I'm already sinning. So I might"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":976.41,"endTime":979.89,"body":"as well do everything. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":976.41,"endTime":979.89,"body":"like, why? Why is making a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":979.89,"endTime":984.57,"body":"choice? Why does that equate to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":979.89,"endTime":984.57,"body":"a lot of damaging decisions that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":984.57,"endTime":987.75,"body":"you don't actually want, just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":984.57,"endTime":987.75,"body":"because other people expect you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":987.75,"endTime":990.27,"body":"to be doing that. And I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":987.75,"endTime":990.27,"body":"we're getting to a better place"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":990.27,"endTime":993.6,"body":"where that doesn't happen. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":990.27,"endTime":993.6,"body":"again, a lot of it's like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":993.6,"endTime":996.69,"body":"societal pressure, I really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":993.6,"endTime":996.69,"body":"believe and if, and if we could"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":996.69,"endTime":999.42,"body":"have people we trust, and if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":996.69,"endTime":999.42,"body":"things were more open, and like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":999.42,"endTime":1003.26,"body":"normalized, then there wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":999.42,"endTime":1003.26,"body":"be like this petri dish of like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1003.26,"endTime":1007.01,"body":"shame filled people trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1003.26,"endTime":1007.01,"body":"find community and just turning"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1007.01,"endTime":1011.66,"body":"into like this tornado abyss of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1007.01,"endTime":1011.66,"body":"just bad decisions, you know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1011.66,"endTime":1017.36,"body":"and I really think that a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1011.66,"endTime":1017.36,"body":"like, like sin, or bad"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1017.36,"endTime":1021.05,"body":"decisions, like to use those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1017.36,"endTime":1021.05,"body":"terms, I don't love them. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1021.08,"endTime":1024.92,"body":"for lack of better terms, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1021.08,"endTime":1024.92,"body":"stems from an unmet need, right,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1024.92,"endTime":1028.55,"body":"and there's so many people who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1024.92,"endTime":1028.55,"body":"act out or lash out or make kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1028.55,"endTime":1031.55,"body":"of wild decisions, because they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1028.55,"endTime":1031.55,"body":"have needs that are not being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1031.55,"endTime":1034.94,"body":"met. And in the case of gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1031.55,"endTime":1034.94,"body":"culture, a lot of its emotional,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1035.24,"endTime":1039.5,"body":"and belonging needs that were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1035.24,"endTime":1039.5,"body":"never met. And then it is, it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1039.5,"endTime":1042.98,"body":"like a rubber band, it's like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1039.5,"endTime":1042.98,"body":"breaking point. And then it kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1042.98,"endTime":1046.4,"body":"of like festers in this culture,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1042.98,"endTime":1046.4,"body":"because then everyone gets"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1046.4,"endTime":1049.34,"body":"thrown out to the sides of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1046.4,"endTime":1049.34,"body":"society and is in this and, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1049.34,"endTime":1052.01,"body":"that's the expectation, right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1049.34,"endTime":1052.01,"body":"It's almost the expectation that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1052.37,"endTime":1058.07,"body":"whoever ends up gay, right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1052.37,"endTime":1058.07,"body":"That's what happens. And I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1058.07,"endTime":1061.52,"body":"even had people say to me, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1058.07,"endTime":1061.52,"body":"to my face, oh, you just wait,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1061.52,"endTime":1064.34,"body":"and a couple years, you'll be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1061.52,"endTime":1064.34,"body":"corrupted, just like I was. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1064.34,"endTime":1065.84,"body":"I'm like, why?"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1066.47,"endTime":1066.98,"body":"So I heard that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1067.01,"endTime":1070.43,"body":"Yeah. So many times,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1067.01,"endTime":1070.43,"body":"it's like, and I think part of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1070.43,"endTime":1073.91,"body":"it stems from like, almost a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1070.43,"endTime":1073.91,"body":"guilt that they were corrupted"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1073.91,"endTime":1076.79,"body":"and couldn't get out of it. Does"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1073.91,"endTime":1076.79,"body":"that make sense? And, and it's,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1076.88,"endTime":1079.49,"body":"sometimes it's like, really not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1076.88,"endTime":1079.49,"body":"their fault. It's just because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1079.49,"endTime":1082.64,"body":"like, it's so tragic and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1079.49,"endTime":1082.64,"body":"horrible. And it's like, being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1082.64,"endTime":1085.1,"body":"acted upon so much that you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1082.64,"endTime":1085.1,"body":"stuck there."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1086.15,"endTime":1088.64,"body":"I think there's this very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1086.15,"endTime":1088.64,"body":"natural human response of, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1088.64,"endTime":1091.85,"body":"know, trying to seek connection"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1088.64,"endTime":1091.85,"body":"and trying to create"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1091.85,"endTime":1095.12,"body":"relationships. And, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1091.85,"endTime":1095.12,"body":"sometimes we might do things"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1095.12,"endTime":1097.31,"body":"that are in line with our values"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1095.12,"endTime":1097.31,"body":"to try and find those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1097.31,"endTime":1098.03,"body":"connections."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1098.48,"endTime":1100.85,"body":"And, you know, I have"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1098.48,"endTime":1100.85,"body":"friends who've definitely chosen"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1100.85,"endTime":1104.48,"body":"a different path than me. And"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1100.85,"endTime":1104.48,"body":"then they found happiness in"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1104.48,"endTime":1108.38,"body":"that. And to them, I wish them"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1104.48,"endTime":1108.38,"body":"the best, you know, I'm not, I'm"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1108.38,"endTime":1112.1,"body":"not here to judge or say what"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1108.38,"endTime":1112.1,"body":"people should do. But again,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1112.1,"endTime":1115.49,"body":"like, I agree with you guys,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1112.1,"endTime":1115.49,"body":"that petri dish of how like,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1115.52,"endTime":1119.21,"body":"we're forced, and we've been"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1115.52,"endTime":1119.21,"body":"forced to hide for years. And"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1119.21,"endTime":1122.66,"body":"then when you release all of it"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1119.21,"endTime":1122.66,"body":"at the same point, like there's,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1122.66,"endTime":1125.39,"body":"you feel, I feel like you're"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1122.66,"endTime":1125.39,"body":"just feeling like things for the"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1125.39,"endTime":1127.52,"body":"first time, you know, people"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1125.39,"endTime":1127.52,"body":"compared to like, being a"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1127.52,"endTime":1130.67,"body":"teenager when you're dating or,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1127.52,"endTime":1130.67,"body":"and you're just really trying to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1130.67,"endTime":1133.76,"body":"understand like your brain,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1130.67,"endTime":1133.76,"body":"like, in my mind, I see it as"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1134.18,"endTime":1137.87,"body":"your brain is actually like,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1134.18,"endTime":1137.87,"body":"finally able to access things"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1137.87,"endTime":1140.84,"body":"that it's like, repressed for"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1137.87,"endTime":1140.84,"body":"years. Yeah. And so you're not"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1140.84,"endTime":1145.25,"body":"able to maybe make all the best"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1140.84,"endTime":1145.25,"body":"decisions right then. But you're"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1145.25,"endTime":1146.78,"body":"still just so free at that"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1145.25,"endTime":1146.78,"body":"point."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1147.14,"endTime":1151.01,"body":"I'm thinking about the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1147.14,"endTime":1151.01,"body":"way I grew up in the church. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1151.43,"endTime":1155.42,"body":"every time like virtue or purity"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1151.43,"endTime":1155.42,"body":"or marriage or or sex was talked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1155.42,"endTime":1159.05,"body":"about. It was like a sacred"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1155.42,"endTime":1159.05,"body":"thing, right? That they raised"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1159.05,"endTime":1161.57,"body":"us, they instilled in us this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1159.05,"endTime":1161.57,"body":"idea that the expression of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1161.57,"endTime":1164.81,"body":"sexuality is one of the most"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1161.57,"endTime":1164.81,"body":"beautiful godlike sacred things,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1164.99,"endTime":1170.03,"body":"and that we need to hold on to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1164.99,"endTime":1170.03,"body":"that and treat it well. At the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1170.03,"endTime":1174.05,"body":"same time, the messaging I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1170.03,"endTime":1174.05,"body":"received about gay sex and gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1174.05,"endTime":1177.53,"body":"relationships was that it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1174.05,"endTime":1177.53,"body":"devilish and sick and abhorrent"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1177.53,"endTime":1182.57,"body":"and wrong and immoral. And so in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1177.53,"endTime":1182.57,"body":"a sense, like, is it any wonder"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1182.57,"endTime":1185.81,"body":"that gay people grow up and when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1182.57,"endTime":1185.81,"body":"they start expressing their"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1185.81,"endTime":1189.08,"body":"sexuality, they're treating it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1185.81,"endTime":1189.08,"body":"the same way that they've been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1189.08,"endTime":1192.5,"body":"taught to treat it, which is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1189.08,"endTime":1192.5,"body":"devilish and abhorrent and sick"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1192.5,"endTime":1195.41,"body":"and wrong and like, how can we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1192.5,"endTime":1195.41,"body":"really expect someone to hold"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1195.41,"endTime":1199.67,"body":"that pure and sacred when we've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1195.41,"endTime":1199.67,"body":"instilled them with this idea"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1199.67,"endTime":1203.72,"body":"that, that it's disgusting."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1199.67,"endTime":1203.72,"body":"Right? And how much better off?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1203.72,"endTime":1207.44,"body":"Would we be if, if the way we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1203.72,"endTime":1207.44,"body":"educated our children and talked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1207.44,"endTime":1211.73,"body":"about this was, was more based"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1207.44,"endTime":1211.73,"body":"on like, personal values and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1211.73,"endTime":1215.21,"body":"morals? And just like? I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1211.73,"endTime":1215.21,"body":"know, do you know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1215.21,"endTime":1215.57,"body":"saying?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1215.81,"endTime":1219.41,"body":"Yeah, and I know, I know, a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1215.81,"endTime":1219.41,"body":"lot of people who know they want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1219.41,"endTime":1221.57,"body":"to follow the same guidance as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1219.41,"endTime":1221.57,"body":"about, they want to wait till"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1221.57,"endTime":1224.15,"body":"they're till they're married to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1221.57,"endTime":1224.15,"body":"have sex and they want to have,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1224.51,"endTime":1227.18,"body":"you know, I don't know, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1224.51,"endTime":1227.18,"body":"for the strength of youth"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1227.36,"endTime":1229.94,"body":"pamphlet guidelines, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1227.36,"endTime":1229.94,"body":"when they're dating, right,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1230.45,"endTime":1237.5,"body":"which sounds no fun at all. And,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1230.45,"endTime":1237.5,"body":"you know, people who just want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1237.5,"endTime":1240.5,"body":"to, you know, have the kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1237.5,"endTime":1240.5,"body":"relationship that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1240.5,"endTime":1243.29,"body":"they grew up wanting to have,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1240.5,"endTime":1243.29,"body":"but just with a partner of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1243.29,"endTime":1244.01,"body":"same sex."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1244.61,"endTime":1247.25,"body":"I was talking to a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1244.61,"endTime":1247.25,"body":"friend once, and he said, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1247.25,"endTime":1249.74,"body":"so cute, he was like, I really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1247.25,"endTime":1249.74,"body":"think the next level of gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1249.74,"endTime":1252.8,"body":"rights is, like gay couples"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1249.74,"endTime":1252.8,"body":"moving to the suburbs and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1252.8,"endTime":1255.53,"body":"raising kids. And basically,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1252.8,"endTime":1255.53,"body":"what he was saying is, I hope"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1255.53,"endTime":1259.49,"body":"that one day, it just becomes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1255.53,"endTime":1259.49,"body":"normal enough to where you can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1259.49,"endTime":1262.13,"body":"just live a normal life, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1259.49,"endTime":1262.13,"body":"you're not pushed into this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1262.25,"endTime":1266.42,"body":"corner of, of shame-filled"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1262.25,"endTime":1266.42,"body":"lashing out and depression. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1266.42,"endTime":1270.47,"body":"then we can kind of create a new"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1266.42,"endTime":1270.47,"body":"culture. And, yeah, that's just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1270.47,"endTime":1273.26,"body":"so much more healthy and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1270.47,"endTime":1273.26,"body":"beautiful in, in my mind."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1273.66,"endTime":1277.11,"body":"So I'll be honest,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1273.66,"endTime":1277.11,"body":"like, for me, I've, again,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1277.14,"endTime":1281.37,"body":"haven't been perfect, but I can"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1277.14,"endTime":1281.37,"body":"say that intimacy and sex with"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1281.37,"endTime":1284.28,"body":"someone that you truly love and"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1281.37,"endTime":1284.28,"body":"care about, or when you're like,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1284.28,"endTime":1288.24,"body":"in a committed relationship is"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1284.28,"endTime":1288.24,"body":"for me, far superior than"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1288.24,"endTime":1293.37,"body":"anything else. Like you're able"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1288.24,"endTime":1293.37,"body":"to just experience things about"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1293.37,"endTime":1297.66,"body":"life that you didn't realize, or"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1293.37,"endTime":1297.66,"body":"that you're just expressing your"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1297.66,"endTime":1300.96,"body":"feelings from within. So similar"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1297.66,"endTime":1300.96,"body":"to what the Church teaches. And"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1300.99,"endTime":1306.03,"body":"it is something that is valuable"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1300.99,"endTime":1306.03,"body":"to oneself, and honestly"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1306.03,"endTime":1310.62,"body":"shouldn't be given away, in my"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1306.03,"endTime":1310.62,"body":"opinion, just to anyone. This is"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1310.65,"endTime":1315.15,"body":"truly like being in your most"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1310.65,"endTime":1315.15,"body":"vulnerable state, and finding a"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1315.15,"endTime":1318.87,"body":"way where you can express that"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1315.15,"endTime":1318.87,"body":"in a healthy manner, like makes"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1318.87,"endTime":1319.8,"body":"it that much better."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1320.36,"endTime":1323.12,"body":"Yeah, as we're talking,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1320.36,"endTime":1323.12,"body":"I just kind of want to reiterate"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1323.12,"endTime":1326.27,"body":"this idea that, that you can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1323.12,"endTime":1326.27,"body":"change your course you can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1326.27,"endTime":1330.08,"body":"change your mind. And if you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1326.27,"endTime":1330.08,"body":"making choices or falling into"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1330.08,"endTime":1333.62,"body":"situations that that you don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1330.08,"endTime":1333.62,"body":"like, like, you can change that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1333.62,"endTime":1336.35,"body":"And it's not like, you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1333.62,"endTime":1336.35,"body":"damaged, or it's over, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1336.35,"endTime":1338.69,"body":"there's something wrong with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1336.35,"endTime":1338.69,"body":"you, or you're a bad person,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1338.69,"endTime":1342.98,"body":"like, There's always hope, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1338.69,"endTime":1342.98,"body":"you have the ability to move as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1342.98,"endTime":1347.24,"body":"you wish. And there are people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1342.98,"endTime":1347.24,"body":"who love you and support you in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1347.24,"endTime":1348.56,"body":"whatever decisions you'll make."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1348.63,"endTime":1348.99,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1349.17,"endTime":1351.42,"body":"And we're not here to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1349.17,"endTime":1351.42,"body":"prescribe values to anyone..."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1351.42,"endTime":1351.63,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1351.9,"endTime":1352.32,"body":"Not at all."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1352.35,"endTime":1354.78,"body":"But whatever your values"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1352.35,"endTime":1354.78,"body":"are, that the best way to have a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1354.78,"endTime":1357.99,"body":"happy life is to live according"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1354.78,"endTime":1357.99,"body":"to those values, whatever they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1357.99,"endTime":1358.23,"body":"are."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1358.32,"endTime":1358.83,"body":"Agreed."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1359.46,"endTime":1361.74,"body":"So I was really shocked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1359.46,"endTime":1361.74,"body":"that the moment I came out, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1361.74,"endTime":1364.86,"body":"I came out in a very, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1361.74,"endTime":1364.86,"body":"church-centric way with the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1364.86,"endTime":1368.13,"body":"Deseret News, right. But as soon"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1364.86,"endTime":1368.13,"body":"as that happened, I received a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1368.13,"endTime":1370.89,"body":"lot of messages, most of them"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1368.13,"endTime":1370.89,"body":"like good and supportive, but a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1370.89,"endTime":1375.27,"body":"lot of them were very, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1370.89,"endTime":1375.27,"body":"people giving me like indecent"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1375.39,"endTime":1380.04,"body":"proposals and sending me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1375.39,"endTime":1380.04,"body":"unwanted sexual and graphic"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1380.04,"endTime":1384.99,"body":"content. And I was shocked and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1380.04,"endTime":1384.99,"body":"it like really hurt my feelings."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1385.05,"endTime":1387.42,"body":"I don't know how else to say"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1385.05,"endTime":1387.42,"body":"other than like, I was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1387.42,"endTime":1392.64,"body":"hurt by it. And it was gross."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1387.42,"endTime":1392.64,"body":"And like, I didn't want it."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1393.02,"endTime":1396.53,"body":"Yeah, no, like, I came"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1393.02,"endTime":1396.53,"body":"out on YouTube, like, officially"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1396.56,"endTime":1401.27,"body":"came out on YouTube. And I would"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1396.56,"endTime":1401.27,"body":"get these unsolicited, you know,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1401.3,"endTime":1407.48,"body":"genitalia, pictures, or whatnot."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1401.3,"endTime":1407.48,"body":"And it was so unappealing, not"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1407.48,"endTime":1411.44,"body":"because it's not, you know, yes,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1407.48,"endTime":1411.44,"body":"we are gay, or however you"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1411.44,"endTime":1415.73,"body":"identify, but that isn't what"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1411.44,"endTime":1415.73,"body":"being you know, gay is about."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1415.73,"endTime":1418.88,"body":"It's not about this picture, or"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1415.73,"endTime":1418.88,"body":"you know, all this."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1418.99,"endTime":1420.73,"body":"Well, it's not about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1418.99,"endTime":1420.73,"body":"sex. It's I say that all the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1420.73,"endTime":1422.44,"body":"time. It's so much more than"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1420.73,"endTime":1422.44,"body":"sex."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1422.44,"endTime":1423.01,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1423.19,"endTime":1426.85,"body":"Right. And it just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1423.19,"endTime":1426.85,"body":"like, that's not appropriate."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1427.0,"endTime":1429.22,"body":"No, unsolicited"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1427.0,"endTime":1429.22,"body":"anything is inappropriate."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1429.0,"endTime":1431.64,"body":"It's just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1429.0,"endTime":1431.64,"body":"inappropriate. And I was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1431.64,"endTime":1434.49,"body":"shocked by that. It got to the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1431.64,"endTime":1434.49,"body":"point where I almost got self"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1434.49,"endTime":1437.64,"body":"conscious. I was like, What am I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1434.49,"endTime":1437.64,"body":"putting out into the world that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1437.64,"endTime":1441.18,"body":"makes people think this is okay."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1437.64,"endTime":1441.18,"body":"And I thought it was like, a me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1441.18,"endTime":1444.15,"body":"problem. And I was like, what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1441.18,"endTime":1444.15,"body":"about my energy or personality"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1444.15,"endTime":1447.96,"body":"makes people think that this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1444.15,"endTime":1447.96,"body":"what I want. And it was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1447.96,"endTime":1451.65,"body":"hard to go through that. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1447.96,"endTime":1451.65,"body":"almost don't want to say this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1451.65,"endTime":1454.83,"body":"because it's ignorance is bliss."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1451.65,"endTime":1454.83,"body":"And it's so much, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1454.83,"endTime":1456.9,"body":"don't want to make people feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1454.83,"endTime":1456.9,"body":"like the minute they come out,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1456.9,"endTime":1460.29,"body":"they're gonna get attacked, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1456.9,"endTime":1460.29,"body":"it's a reality that exists. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1460.29,"endTime":1462.57,"body":"I think it's good to be prepared"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1460.29,"endTime":1462.57,"body":"for that."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1462.6,"endTime":1462.9,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1462.93,"endTime":1465.21,"body":"Well, Charlie, you're a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1462.93,"endTime":1465.21,"body":"young hot gay that takes great"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1465.21,"endTime":1466.11,"body":"Instagram pictures."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1466.11,"endTime":1466.8,"body":"Thank you Ben."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1467.5,"endTime":1469.9,"body":"When I came out on my blog"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1467.5,"endTime":1469.9,"body":"when I was 30, that dozens of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1469.9,"endTime":1474.22,"body":"people read I received no dick"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1469.9,"endTime":1474.22,"body":"pics, and no solicitation. You"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1474.22,"endTime":1477.82,"body":"know, sometimes I'll get"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1474.22,"endTime":1477.82,"body":"messages from people from like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1477.88,"endTime":1481.27,"body":"certain gay groups who send me a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1477.88,"endTime":1481.27,"body":"picture like in their underwear."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1481.27,"endTime":1482.83,"body":"It has happened a couple of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1481.27,"endTime":1482.83,"body":"times, and they're like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1482.83,"endTime":1485.44,"body":"sorry, that wasn't for you."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1482.83,"endTime":1485.44,"body":"Like, alright..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1485.74,"endTime":1486.37,"body":"Subtle."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1487.32,"endTime":1488.76,"body":"But you know, like that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1487.32,"endTime":1488.76,"body":"kind of stuff doesn't really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1488.79,"endTime":1491.22,"body":"happen to me. But I'm also like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1488.79,"endTime":1491.22,"body":"like, you know, that line from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1491.25,"endTime":1494.7,"body":"Alladin where Jasmine's like I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1491.25,"endTime":1494.7,"body":"not a prize to be won. I think"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1494.7,"endTime":1499.2,"body":"people like see you as like this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1494.7,"endTime":1499.2,"body":"celebrity who is hot and young."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1499.2,"endTime":1504.09,"body":"And you know, like you're a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1499.2,"endTime":1504.09,"body":"prize to people. I'm no prize."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1504.69,"endTime":1506.76,"body":"Everyone's a prize"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1504.69,"endTime":1506.76,"body":"band. So don't debase yourself."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1506.79,"endTime":1509.16,"body":"Well, I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1506.79,"endTime":1509.16,"body":"it stems from the dichotomous"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1509.16,"endTime":1512.25,"body":"culture, right? As soon as I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1509.16,"endTime":1512.25,"body":"said I was gay, everyone assumed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1512.25,"endTime":1515.43,"body":"that I was promiscuous"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1512.25,"endTime":1515.43,"body":"immediately. And as soon as I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1515.43,"endTime":1517.98,"body":"wrote my book for Deseret book,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1515.43,"endTime":1517.98,"body":"everyone assumed that I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1518.01,"endTime":1520.5,"body":"struggling with same sex"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1518.01,"endTime":1520.5,"body":"attraction, right? And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1520.5,"endTime":1522.75,"body":"like, Can we please get over"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1520.5,"endTime":1522.75,"body":"these narratives because neither"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1522.75,"endTime":1526.05,"body":"of them are true, right? Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1522.75,"endTime":1526.05,"body":"I'm very confident in who I am."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1526.05,"endTime":1528.18,"body":"And I'm also not promiscuous."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1528.54,"endTime":1531.45,"body":"So you don't want dick"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1528.54,"endTime":1531.45,"body":"pics. And you also don't want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1531.45,"endTime":1531.81,"body":"pity."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1531.99,"endTime":1533.43,"body":"I don't want dick pics"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1531.99,"endTime":1533.43,"body":"or pity."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1534.09,"endTime":1536.07,"body":"But I do want to be pitied for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1534.09,"endTime":1536.07,"body":"all the dick pics that I've had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1536.07,"endTime":1538.98,"body":"to see. Oh my gosh. So horrible."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1539.94,"endTime":1542.1,"body":"And I'm just gonna say"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1539.94,"endTime":1542.1,"body":"something like, even though we"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1542.1,"endTime":1545.82,"body":"here don't appreciate that type"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1542.1,"endTime":1545.82,"body":"of stuff to the people who do,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1546.27,"endTime":1550.47,"body":"or who participate in that other"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1546.27,"endTime":1550.47,"body":"spectrum. You know, again, all"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1550.47,"endTime":1553.35,"body":"the love to them. Like that's,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1550.47,"endTime":1553.35,"body":"again, there's different"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1553.35,"endTime":1556.8,"body":"perspectives of how this comes"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1553.35,"endTime":1556.8,"body":"about. But I know for myself,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1556.8,"endTime":1560.94,"body":"like, if an unsolicited picture"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1556.8,"endTime":1560.94,"body":"comes through, it isn't going to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1560.94,"endTime":1562.08,"body":"like make me happy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1562.3,"endTime":1564.97,"body":"Right. And I think like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1562.3,"endTime":1564.97,"body":"it comes down to consent, right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1564.97,"endTime":1567.25,"body":"That's the missing link like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1564.97,"endTime":1567.25,"body":"that there should be consent."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1567.46,"endTime":1571.03,"body":"And and sometimes in this realm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1567.46,"endTime":1571.03,"body":"there is not and its it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1571.03,"endTime":1573.97,"body":"unacceptable. And, and I hope"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1571.03,"endTime":1573.97,"body":"that no one else has to face"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1573.97,"endTime":1577.27,"body":"that. But like I said, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1573.97,"endTime":1577.27,"body":"reality is that many people do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1577.72,"endTime":1580.63,"body":"And so it's it's good to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1577.72,"endTime":1580.63,"body":"prepared and be open and talk"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1580.63,"endTime":1583.33,"body":"about that with people you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1580.63,"endTime":1583.33,"body":"trust. Additionally, I see this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1583.33,"endTime":1587.59,"body":"common theme where, and I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1583.33,"endTime":1587.59,"body":"even felt it in myself. Right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1587.59,"endTime":1591.7,"body":"Like for so long, you feel so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1587.59,"endTime":1591.7,"body":"broken, and terrible, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1591.7,"endTime":1595.09,"body":"unlovable and gross. And then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1591.7,"endTime":1595.09,"body":"you find someone who's willing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1595.09,"endTime":1598.06,"body":"to give you attention and like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1595.09,"endTime":1598.06,"body":"loves this part of you that you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1598.06,"endTime":1602.68,"body":"hate the very most. And it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1598.06,"endTime":1602.68,"body":"tempting to like mistake, basic"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1602.68,"endTime":1607.96,"body":"human decency, for some great"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1602.68,"endTime":1607.96,"body":"noble act. And then you just get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1607.96,"endTime":1611.5,"body":"into a situation that you give"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1607.96,"endTime":1611.5,"body":"way too much of yourself,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1611.59,"endTime":1615.34,"body":"because you're so insecure. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1611.59,"endTime":1615.34,"body":"because I mean, we it's the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1615.34,"endTime":1617.08,"body":"thing, we were just talking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1615.34,"endTime":1617.08,"body":"about it, it's like looking for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1617.08,"endTime":1620.68,"body":"belonging and wanting to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1617.08,"endTime":1620.68,"body":"like, loved and held. And if you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1620.68,"endTime":1625.39,"body":"don't have existing belonging it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1620.68,"endTime":1625.39,"body":"is so I wish I had better words"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1625.39,"endTime":1630.04,"body":"to say but like tempting to fall"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1625.39,"endTime":1630.04,"body":"into that and bend your morality"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1630.16,"endTime":1633.37,"body":"and your your values around"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1630.16,"endTime":1633.37,"body":"somebody else."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1633.85,"endTime":1637.15,"body":"When you combine like those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1633.85,"endTime":1637.15,"body":"deep feelings of like shame and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1637.18,"endTime":1640.69,"body":"wanting to belong with the gay"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1637.18,"endTime":1640.69,"body":"adolescence, and not having"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1640.72,"endTime":1643.69,"body":"those opportunities to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1640.72,"endTime":1643.69,"body":"experience relationships, as an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1643.69,"endTime":1646.39,"body":"adolescent with like adult"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1643.69,"endTime":1646.39,"body":"supervision, and the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1646.39,"endTime":1650.65,"body":"restrictions that teens have."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1646.39,"endTime":1650.65,"body":"And you know, you're it's just,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1650.95,"endTime":1654.04,"body":"it's a recipe for getting into"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1650.95,"endTime":1654.04,"body":"situations that you might regret"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1654.04,"endTime":1654.49,"body":"later."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1654.85,"endTime":1656.8,"body":"Yeah, and this isn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1654.85,"endTime":1656.8,"body":"just with gay culture. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1657.04,"endTime":1660.58,"body":"to an extent, it seems like we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1657.04,"endTime":1660.58,"body":"live we live in a world that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1660.58,"endTime":1663.76,"body":"like LDS culture versus gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1660.58,"endTime":1663.76,"body":"culture. But like, honestly, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1663.76,"endTime":1667.42,"body":"have straight friends. And like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1663.76,"endTime":1667.42,"body":"friend, like co-workers, when I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1667.42,"endTime":1669.73,"body":"was working in New York, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1667.42,"endTime":1669.73,"body":"like, their value set is very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1669.73,"endTime":1671.56,"body":"different from mine. And they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1669.73,"endTime":1671.56,"body":"okay with a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1671.56,"endTime":1675.01,"body":"things in it. And so like, there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1671.56,"endTime":1675.01,"body":"is a lot of overlap just between"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1675.01,"endTime":1679.33,"body":"like, not LDS culture, and what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1675.01,"endTime":1679.33,"body":"we see as gay culture. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1679.33,"endTime":1683.95,"body":"think the, the extra ingredient"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1679.33,"endTime":1683.95,"body":"is this, the shame and this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1683.95,"endTime":1687.16,"body":"adolescence in this not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1683.95,"endTime":1687.16,"body":"understanding a lot that and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1687.16,"endTime":1688.45,"body":"think that's the most toxic"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1687.16,"endTime":1688.45,"body":"part."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1689.44,"endTime":1692.08,"body":"And the are, like, you"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1689.44,"endTime":1692.08,"body":"can be taken advantage of very"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1692.08,"endTime":1695.59,"body":"easily in those vulnerable"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1692.08,"endTime":1695.59,"body":"states. And it's important to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1695.62,"endTime":1699.82,"body":"again, recognize what's what's"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1695.62,"endTime":1699.82,"body":"good to yourself, what will make"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1699.82,"endTime":1703.36,"body":"you be happy in the end? Like,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1699.82,"endTime":1703.36,"body":"is this going to be a moment"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1703.36,"endTime":1707.5,"body":"where you're going to look back"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1703.36,"endTime":1707.5,"body":"and be like, I am okay, with"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1707.5,"endTime":1710.17,"body":"everything that just happened?"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1707.5,"endTime":1710.17,"body":"Or I am happy with everything"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1710.17,"endTime":1712.48,"body":"that just happened? Or is this"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1710.17,"endTime":1712.48,"body":"going to be a moment where"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1712.75,"endTime":1715.03,"body":"you're going to look back and"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1712.75,"endTime":1715.03,"body":"have regrets? And it's okay to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1715.03,"endTime":1718.3,"body":"have regrets. I have plenty of"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1715.03,"endTime":1718.3,"body":"regrets. But at the same point,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1718.3,"endTime":1722.02,"body":"I look back at those moments."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1718.3,"endTime":1722.02,"body":"And I'm like, okay, I learned"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1722.02,"endTime":1725.86,"body":"from that I learned that my"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1722.02,"endTime":1725.86,"body":"value or my morals, or whatever"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1725.86,"endTime":1729.37,"body":"it may be from that time,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1725.86,"endTime":1729.37,"body":"doesn't determine how I feel"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1729.37,"endTime":1730.54,"body":"about myself at this present."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1730.6,"endTime":1733.06,"body":"Well in Isn't that like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1730.6,"endTime":1733.06,"body":"the definition of that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1733.06,"endTime":1735.49,"body":"textbook definition of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1733.06,"endTime":1735.49,"body":"repentance? Yeah, like we have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1735.49,"endTime":1739.69,"body":"agency, we make choices. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1735.49,"endTime":1739.69,"body":"because of the grace of God, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1739.69,"endTime":1745.03,"body":"don't have to pay that. But we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1739.69,"endTime":1745.03,"body":"can learn from it. And, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1745.03,"endTime":1747.94,"body":"know, if you cross a line that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1745.03,"endTime":1747.94,"body":"too far for you, and you don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1747.94,"endTime":1751.42,"body":"like the result, you don't have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1747.94,"endTime":1751.42,"body":"to do it again. It's not like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1751.45,"endTime":1754.9,"body":"your boundary is automatically"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1751.45,"endTime":1754.9,"body":"bigger, because you had an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1754.9,"endTime":1758.32,"body":"outlier moment. Right, you can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1754.9,"endTime":1758.32,"body":"come back within the normal bell"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1758.32,"endTime":1761.74,"body":"curve and find a place where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1758.32,"endTime":1761.74,"body":"you're, like, steady and stable."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1761.9,"endTime":1764.6,"body":"And I've again, I've"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1761.9,"endTime":1764.6,"body":"done many, I've had many"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1764.6,"endTime":1767.87,"body":"instances where I have not been"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1764.6,"endTime":1767.87,"body":"perfect. But again, like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1767.9,"endTime":1771.32,"body":"there's, I like how I brought up"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1767.9,"endTime":1771.32,"body":"the point of consent is"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1771.32,"endTime":1774.89,"body":"something that's super important"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1771.32,"endTime":1774.89,"body":"that I think that freshly coming"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1774.89,"endTime":1778.7,"body":"out or the gay community in"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1774.89,"endTime":1778.7,"body":"general needs to be very aware"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1778.7,"endTime":1783.71,"body":"of and better at, and also not"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1778.7,"endTime":1783.71,"body":"pressuring people to do things"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1783.71,"endTime":1786.83,"body":"that they're uncomfortable with."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1783.71,"endTime":1786.83,"body":"Because I've been in many"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1786.83,"endTime":1790.67,"body":"situations where I have been"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1786.83,"endTime":1790.67,"body":"pressured to do a number of"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1790.67,"endTime":1794.78,"body":"things that I may not be"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1790.67,"endTime":1794.78,"body":"comfortable with. And pressuring"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1794.78,"endTime":1797.69,"body":"people to do things that they're"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1794.78,"endTime":1797.69,"body":"not comfortable with isn't okay"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1797.69,"endTime":1801.92,"body":"either. And it's something that"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1797.69,"endTime":1801.92,"body":"should be talked about more. You"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1801.92,"endTime":1804.95,"body":"know, we, I think it's great,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1801.92,"endTime":1804.95,"body":"you know, gay rights and"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1804.95,"endTime":1807.53,"body":"everything that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1804.95,"endTime":1807.53,"body":"equality and that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1807.92,"endTime":1810.95,"body":"But also in that equality, we"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1807.92,"endTime":1810.95,"body":"need to be respectful because if"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1810.95,"endTime":1815.72,"body":"you heard of, like your female"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1810.95,"endTime":1815.72,"body":"coworker or a female friend who"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1815.72,"endTime":1819.35,"body":"had similar circumstances"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1815.72,"endTime":1819.35,"body":"happened to her, I would be"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1819.35,"endTime":1820.19,"body":"immediately like..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.22,"endTime":1821.0,"body":"I'd be enraged."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1821.03,"endTime":1821.57,"body":"Yeah, like..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1821.6,"endTime":1821.84,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1821.87,"endTime":1825.08,"body":"Where's this guy like,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1821.87,"endTime":1825.08,"body":"or girl, like, who is like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1825.08,"endTime":1828.68,"body":"what's happening, but in gay"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1825.08,"endTime":1828.68,"body":"culture, it's become the norm."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1828.68,"endTime":1830.75,"body":"And that's something that just"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1828.68,"endTime":1830.75,"body":"shouldn't be, right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1831.05,"endTime":1835.1,"body":"So I remember one time"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1831.05,"endTime":1835.1,"body":"when I went to gay club with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.1,"endTime":1838.37,"body":"some people, and I was kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.1,"endTime":1838.37,"body":"like, I didn't really know what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1838.37,"endTime":1841.1,"body":"to expect. I didn't really feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1838.37,"endTime":1841.1,"body":"comfortable there. But I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1841.1,"endTime":1843.74,"body":"like, you know, I'm really good"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1841.1,"endTime":1843.74,"body":"dancer. And I like going to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1843.74,"endTime":1847.73,"body":"like, dance parties. And I want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1843.74,"endTime":1847.73,"body":"these people to be my friends."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1847.73,"endTime":1850.97,"body":"So I'm just gonna go. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1847.73,"endTime":1850.97,"body":"went, and I was kind of like, on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1850.97,"endTime":1853.64,"body":"the edge. And I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1850.97,"endTime":1853.64,"body":"don't know how I feel about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1853.64,"endTime":1858.8,"body":"this. But this stranger came up"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1853.64,"endTime":1858.8,"body":"and like, aggressively touched"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1858.8,"endTime":1862.85,"body":"me inappropriately. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1858.8,"endTime":1862.85,"body":"really, really offended and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1862.88,"endTime":1866.69,"body":"taken aback shocked. And, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1862.88,"endTime":1866.69,"body":"kind of like, pushed him off of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1866.69,"endTime":1869.84,"body":"me. And he laughed and walked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1866.69,"endTime":1869.84,"body":"away. And I was, I was beside"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1869.84,"endTime":1873.77,"body":"myself, I was so upset. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1869.84,"endTime":1873.77,"body":"these people that I was with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1873.77,"endTime":1877.85,"body":"were like, haha, and I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1873.77,"endTime":1877.85,"body":"no, like, are you kidding me?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1877.85,"endTime":1880.01,"body":"Did you not just see what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1877.85,"endTime":1880.01,"body":"happened? And they're like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1880.01,"endTime":1882.11,"body":"it just means you're hot. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1880.01,"endTime":1882.11,"body":"you should, you should feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1882.11,"endTime":1884.57,"body":"grateful for this, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1882.11,"endTime":1884.57,"body":"everyone wants you. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1884.57,"endTime":1889.19,"body":"like, oh, my gosh, like, this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1884.57,"endTime":1889.19,"body":"horrible. And I, like had a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1889.19,"endTime":1893.27,"body":"terrible night. And I just like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1889.19,"endTime":1893.27,"body":"went down. And I did, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1893.27,"endTime":1896.09,"body":"drive. So like, they stayed, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1893.27,"endTime":1896.09,"body":"just went and sat in this booth."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1896.09,"endTime":1901.28,"body":"And I was so upset. And that's,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1896.09,"endTime":1901.28,"body":"that's a story that happened to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1901.28,"endTime":1903.68,"body":"me. Like, I don't really know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1901.28,"endTime":1903.68,"body":"what my takeaway is there. Other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1903.68,"endTime":1907.97,"body":"than that, like, if you have the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1903.68,"endTime":1907.97,"body":"ability go places with people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1907.97,"endTime":1910.55,"body":"you trust, if you feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1907.97,"endTime":1910.55,"body":"uncomfortable, like, be with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1910.55,"endTime":1913.22,"body":"someone who understands you, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1910.55,"endTime":1913.22,"body":"where you come from, and your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.25,"endTime":1916.58,"body":"your background and your values."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.25,"endTime":1916.58,"body":"Because, again, like it's not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1916.58,"endTime":1921.47,"body":"like everyone is a predator. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1916.58,"endTime":1921.47,"body":"in in certain environments,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1921.47,"endTime":1924.92,"body":"there are predatorial people and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1921.47,"endTime":1924.92,"body":"aggressive people, and it can be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1924.98,"endTime":1925.61,"body":"dangerous."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1925.66,"endTime":1929.47,"body":"Yeah. And I know for"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1925.66,"endTime":1929.47,"body":"myself, like, there was a"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1929.47,"endTime":1934.06,"body":"situation where I was going on a"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1929.47,"endTime":1934.06,"body":"date with this guy, and, you"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1934.06,"endTime":1937.18,"body":"know, for on the couch, and I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1934.06,"endTime":1937.18,"body":"don't want to get into too much"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1937.18,"endTime":1941.47,"body":"detail. But basically, he's he"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1937.18,"endTime":1941.47,"body":"said, Let's do this. I said no."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1941.86,"endTime":1946.0,"body":"And even though I said no,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1941.86,"endTime":1946.0,"body":"multiple times, he said yes. And"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1946.15,"endTime":1948.25,"body":"if you're hearing this, and"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1946.15,"endTime":1948.25,"body":"you've had either a similar"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1948.25,"endTime":1953.2,"body":"situation, or, you know, you're"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1948.25,"endTime":1953.2,"body":"a victim of sexual assault, like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1953.2,"endTime":1956.68,"body":"just know that you're not alone,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1953.2,"endTime":1956.68,"body":"that you are loved, reach out,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1956.71,"endTime":1960.94,"body":"you know, reach out and just"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1956.71,"endTime":1960.94,"body":"know that that does not"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1961.24,"endTime":1964.93,"body":"determine your your worth, or"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1961.24,"endTime":1964.93,"body":"make you any less valuable or"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1964.93,"endTime":1970.09,"body":"less worthy of love. You know,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1964.93,"endTime":1970.09,"body":"after that, I felt so betrayed,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1970.09,"endTime":1973.96,"body":"like, I was like, I have been"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1970.09,"endTime":1973.96,"body":"working hard on like, just"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1973.96,"endTime":1979.69,"body":"maintain the church's standards."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1973.96,"endTime":1979.69,"body":"And I was just, I remember like,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1979.72,"endTime":1983.65,"body":"driving home crying, and just"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1979.72,"endTime":1983.65,"body":"wishing that, you know, I could"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1983.65,"endTime":1987.82,"body":"just be straight and I could be"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1983.65,"endTime":1987.82,"body":"anything other than in this"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1987.82,"endTime":1991.9,"body":"situation. And you know, I,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1987.82,"endTime":1991.9,"body":"there are those people out there"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1991.9,"endTime":1995.53,"body":"who will, you know,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1991.9,"endTime":1995.53,"body":"unfortunately, push those"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1995.53,"endTime":1998.83,"body":"boundaries and try and take"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1995.53,"endTime":1998.83,"body":"advantage of you. And at the"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1998.83,"endTime":2002.97,"body":"same point, like, there are"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":1998.83,"endTime":2002.97,"body":"those people out there, but"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2002.97,"endTime":2007.05,"body":"there are, I would say more so"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2002.97,"endTime":2007.05,"body":"people who are there to support"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2007.05,"endTime":2011.22,"body":"and to love you. And those"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2007.05,"endTime":2011.22,"body":"people when you find like, not"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2011.22,"endTime":2014.31,"body":"like an aura or a light about"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2011.22,"endTime":2014.31,"body":"them, but you can feel like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2014.31,"endTime":2018.21,"body":"goodness from them. Those are"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2014.31,"endTime":2018.21,"body":"the people that you know, should"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2018.33,"endTime":2022.2,"body":"I would for my recommendation is"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2018.33,"endTime":2022.2,"body":"like, not recommendation but for"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2022.2,"endTime":2027.24,"body":"myself, like I try and hang out"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2022.2,"endTime":2027.24,"body":"with, like people who are not"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2027.24,"endTime":2031.68,"body":"going to try and pressure into"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2027.24,"endTime":2031.68,"body":"doing something or belittle like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2031.68,"endTime":2036.45,"body":"my beliefs or what I want to do"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2031.68,"endTime":2036.45,"body":"with my life. So again, if you"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2036.6,"endTime":2040.95,"body":"if you have similar"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2036.6,"endTime":2040.95,"body":"circumstances, I hated the term"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2040.95,"endTime":2043.8,"body":"in church, like when they"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2040.95,"endTime":2043.8,"body":"brought up your piece of chewed"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2043.8,"endTime":2047.91,"body":"gum. And I don't know if that's"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2043.8,"endTime":2047.91,"body":"been brought up, but you are not"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2047.91,"endTime":2051.6,"body":"a piece of chewed gum, you are"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2047.91,"endTime":2051.6,"body":"still a beautiful worthy human"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2051.6,"endTime":2056.97,"body":"being. And I may not know you,"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2051.6,"endTime":2056.97,"body":"but I love you. And I am giving"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2056.97,"endTime":2060.27,"body":"you a virtual hug wherever you"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2056.97,"endTime":2060.27,"body":"are. And just know that you are"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2060.27,"endTime":2060.96,"body":"not alone."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2062.73,"endTime":2064.56,"body":"Derek, thank you for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2062.73,"endTime":2064.56,"body":"sharing that. I know that's a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2065.07,"endTime":2068.1,"body":"deeply personal experience. I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2065.07,"endTime":2068.1,"body":"sorry, that happened."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2068.16,"endTime":2068.7,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2068.79,"endTime":2071.04,"body":"My experience has just been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2068.79,"endTime":2071.04,"body":"so different. Like I actually"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2071.04,"endTime":2073.11,"body":"already told the story on a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2071.04,"endTime":2073.11,"body":"recent episode, but I just want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2073.11,"endTime":2075.39,"body":"to share it again for context."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2073.11,"endTime":2075.39,"body":"I've actually only been on one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2075.39,"endTime":2078.63,"body":"date with a guy. It was I think"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2075.39,"endTime":2078.63,"body":"it was 30. And it was actually"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2078.63,"endTime":2084.48,"body":"Valentine's Day. And this guy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2078.63,"endTime":2084.48,"body":"invited me to dinner and I said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2084.48,"endTime":2087.03,"body":"I would go but I wasn't looking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2084.48,"endTime":2087.03,"body":"for a relationship but if he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2087.03,"endTime":2090.48,"body":"wanted to buy me food fine. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2087.03,"endTime":2090.48,"body":"was such a trick I guess."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2090.51,"endTime":2092.43,"body":"You really are Ben."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2090.52,"endTime":2091.93,"body":"I'm not looking for a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2090.52,"endTime":2091.93,"body":"relationship but if he wants to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2091.93,"endTime":2097.42,"body":"buy me dinner so so he took me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2091.93,"endTime":2097.42,"body":"dinner. Very delicious pizza"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2097.42,"endTime":2100.24,"body":"place in Phoenix, I highly"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2097.42,"endTime":2100.24,"body":"recommend. And then as we were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2097.7,"endTime":2135.23,"body":"So the takeaway is that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2097.7,"endTime":2135.23,"body":"Ben's hard to get."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2100.24,"endTime":2102.91,"body":"like driving, he asked if he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2100.24,"endTime":2102.91,"body":"could hold my hand, which was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2102.91,"endTime":2107.29,"body":"very polite of him. And I said,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2102.91,"endTime":2107.29,"body":"no, thank you. And then he took"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2107.29,"endTime":2113.26,"body":"me this like view area like t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2107.29,"endTime":2113.26,"body":"at overlooks the city. So we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2113.26,"endTime":2115.6,"body":"ike standing there, like ta"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2113.26,"endTime":2115.6,"body":"e in this scene of like the cit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2115.63,"endTime":2118.33,"body":"at night. He's like, this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2115.63,"endTime":2118.33,"body":"eally lovely. The only thing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2118.45,"endTime":2120.64,"body":"hat would make it more lovely i"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2118.45,"endTime":2120.64,"body":"if I could put my hand aroun"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2120.64,"endTime":2122.95,"body":"you or put my arm around you. A"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2120.64,"endTime":2122.95,"body":"d I was like, No, thank you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2122.95,"endTime":2126.43,"body":"And then nothing happened. I t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2122.95,"endTime":2126.43,"body":"tally broke his heart I'm sure."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2136.88,"endTime":2138.05,"body":"Ben is hot and he knows"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2136.88,"endTime":2138.05,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2138.0,"endTime":2142.14,"body":"No, no, no, no one invites"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2138.0,"endTime":2142.14,"body":"me to parties or anything. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2142.14,"endTime":2145.23,"body":"think like, the takeaway I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2142.14,"endTime":2145.23,"body":"getting with this story is, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2145.23,"endTime":2148.44,"body":"know, I knew going into this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2145.23,"endTime":2148.44,"body":"what I wanted out of it. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2148.44,"endTime":2153.54,"body":"wanted dinner. No, I, this guy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2148.44,"endTime":2153.54,"body":"who I thought was cool, wanted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2153.54,"endTime":2156.9,"body":"to take me out. And I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2153.54,"endTime":2156.9,"body":"interested in that. But I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2156.9,"endTime":2161.37,"body":"interested in anything physical."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2156.9,"endTime":2161.37,"body":"And so when those opportunities"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2161.4,"endTime":2163.59,"body":"presented themselves, I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2161.4,"endTime":2163.59,"body":"went with what I'd already"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2163.59,"endTime":2164.13,"body":"decided."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2164.0,"endTime":2165.8,"body":"Yeah, well, I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2164.0,"endTime":2165.8,"body":"there needs to be some way to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2165.8,"endTime":2170.06,"body":"like, balance the pH of gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2165.8,"endTime":2170.06,"body":"culture, right? Because on the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2170.06,"endTime":2173.09,"body":"one hand, on the religious side,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2170.06,"endTime":2173.09,"body":"it's it's incredibly destructive"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2173.09,"endTime":2175.85,"body":"because it's, I mean, I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2173.09,"endTime":2175.85,"body":"know if I even have to explain"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2175.85,"endTime":2179.57,"body":"that, right? Like, the word is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2175.85,"endTime":2179.57,"body":"basic. Now we need to make it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2179.57,"endTime":2182.33,"body":"basic. No, I'm saying like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2179.57,"endTime":2182.33,"body":"neutral. Yeah, it needs to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2182.33,"endTime":2185.03,"body":"more neutral. Because on the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2182.33,"endTime":2185.03,"body":"religious end of the spectrum,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2185.21,"endTime":2187.82,"body":"it's it's terrible. Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2185.21,"endTime":2187.82,"body":"there's depression and self"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2187.82,"endTime":2191.9,"body":"loathing and secrets and hatred."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2187.82,"endTime":2191.9,"body":"And then people just like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2192.44,"endTime":2197.57,"body":"pendulum swing on the opposite"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2192.44,"endTime":2197.57,"body":"side of that, and are into like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2197.72,"endTime":2200.9,"body":"casual sex and drugs. And it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2197.72,"endTime":2200.9,"body":"just like, the counterculture,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2200.93,"endTime":2204.59,"body":"it's swinging so far. And it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2200.93,"endTime":2204.59,"body":"would be so awesome. My dream is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2204.59,"endTime":2208.1,"body":"that we can like get a culture"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2204.59,"endTime":2208.1,"body":"where like, those kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2208.13,"endTime":2211.4,"body":"come in words, and it can be a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2208.13,"endTime":2211.4,"body":"little bit, I keep using the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2211.4,"endTime":2214.13,"body":"word normal, but just like, in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2211.4,"endTime":2214.13,"body":"the middle to where it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2214.13,"endTime":2218.27,"body":"have to be so dramatic, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2214.13,"endTime":2218.27,"body":"the drama is so like, traumatic."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2218.3,"endTime":2218.57,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2218.6,"endTime":2221.33,"body":"Like these dramatic"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2218.6,"endTime":2221.33,"body":"sides of the spectrum of this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2221.33,"endTime":2224.99,"body":"spectrum is it's really hard to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2221.33,"endTime":2224.99,"body":"be like, flip flopping from one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2224.99,"endTime":2227.78,"body":"to the other. And that's what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2224.99,"endTime":2227.78,"body":"I've seen so many people do."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2227.84,"endTime":2231.98,"body":"Yeah, finding a way"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2227.84,"endTime":2231.98,"body":"where people can truly be"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2231.98,"endTime":2234.62,"body":"comfortable, and not have to"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2231.98,"endTime":2234.62,"body":"jump."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2235.22,"endTime":2235.55,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2235.58,"endTime":2239.48,"body":"Or not have to sprint"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2235.58,"endTime":2239.48,"body":"or do a catapult to the one end"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2239.48,"endTime":2240.86,"body":"of the spectrum to the other."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2241.19,"endTime":2243.29,"body":"Yeah, and I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2241.19,"endTime":2243.29,"body":"that's where allyship becomes so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2243.29,"endTime":2247.97,"body":"essential, because allies,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2243.29,"endTime":2247.97,"body":"people, families have the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2247.97,"endTime":2251.12,"body":"ability to change the existing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2247.97,"endTime":2251.12,"body":"culture to where we don't have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2251.12,"endTime":2255.47,"body":"to jump. And we don't have to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2251.12,"endTime":2255.47,"body":"pendulum swing, and the, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2255.5,"endTime":2258.71,"body":"gonna sound like a broken"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2255.5,"endTime":2258.71,"body":"record. But I hope that we can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2258.71,"endTime":2261.47,"body":"internalize this that like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2258.71,"endTime":2261.47,"body":"being open and treating this as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2261.47,"endTime":2265.94,"body":"like a normal thing will fix so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2261.47,"endTime":2265.94,"body":"many problems. And then it won't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2265.94,"endTime":2269.72,"body":"be like, hmm, should I stay in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2265.94,"endTime":2269.72,"body":"the church and be suicidal? Or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2269.72,"endTime":2273.8,"body":"should I leave the church and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2269.72,"endTime":2273.8,"body":"completely lose all of my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2273.8,"endTime":2277.46,"body":"relationships and moral values,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2273.8,"endTime":2277.46,"body":"like, we don't have, like that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2277.46,"endTime":2280.7,"body":"as a false dichotomy. We do not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2277.46,"endTime":2280.7,"body":"have to be making that decision,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2281.0,"endTime":2285.47,"body":"and how I yearn for a world"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2281.0,"endTime":2285.47,"body":"where that dichotomy never"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2285.47,"endTime":2288.2,"body":"exists. It doesn't exist,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2285.47,"endTime":2288.2,"body":"because it doesn't need to."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2288.26,"endTime":2290.45,"body":"No. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2288.26,"endTime":2290.45,"body":"exactly right. Like if we can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2290.48,"endTime":2293.24,"body":"let our loved ones be open and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2290.48,"endTime":2293.24,"body":"honest about the realities of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2293.24,"endTime":2295.97,"body":"their lives with us, then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2293.24,"endTime":2295.97,"body":"they're going to be a lot safer."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2297.22,"endTime":2298.81,"body":"And just kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2297.22,"endTime":2298.81,"body":"looking back on everything we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2298.81,"endTime":2302.02,"body":"said, I'm thinking about, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2298.81,"endTime":2302.02,"body":"my takeaways and themes. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2302.02,"endTime":2305.2,"body":"think it's just that like, there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2302.02,"endTime":2305.2,"body":"is an existing gay culture that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2305.2,"endTime":2310.72,"body":"was born out of grief and hurt."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2305.2,"endTime":2310.72,"body":"And it's complex and tricky, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2310.72,"endTime":2314.23,"body":"can be really dangerous. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2310.72,"endTime":2314.23,"body":"while it's sad, and often"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2314.23,"endTime":2317.14,"body":"offensive to me, I have to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2314.23,"endTime":2317.14,"body":"recognize that these people are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2317.14,"endTime":2320.83,"body":"hurt and hurt people hurt"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2317.14,"endTime":2320.83,"body":"people. And a lot of this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2320.83,"endTime":2325.87,"body":"stemming from pain, and unmet"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2320.83,"endTime":2325.87,"body":"needs. At the same time, I am"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2325.87,"endTime":2328.12,"body":"taking away that we can be the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2325.87,"endTime":2328.12,"body":"change we want to see in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2328.12,"endTime":2331.72,"body":"world. And that we don't have to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2328.12,"endTime":2331.72,"body":"add to that or feel pressured to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2331.99,"endTime":2334.45,"body":"subscribe to that existing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2331.99,"endTime":2334.45,"body":"culture if we don't feel like it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2334.45,"endTime":2338.53,"body":"fits our own views and morals."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2334.45,"endTime":2338.53,"body":"And the way to do that is to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2338.53,"endTime":2341.77,"body":"build a solid core support"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2338.53,"endTime":2341.77,"body":"system, and solidify your moral"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2341.77,"endTime":2344.77,"body":"compass before you even start"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2341.77,"endTime":2344.77,"body":"stepping into this world."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2344.99,"endTime":2347.33,"body":"Yeah, and I've really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2344.99,"endTime":2347.33,"body":"appreciated that the friends of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2347.33,"endTime":2350.09,"body":"mine who are have different"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2347.33,"endTime":2350.09,"body":"values than I do, and who are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2350.09,"endTime":2352.52,"body":"living lives different a life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2350.09,"endTime":2352.52,"body":"different than I would choose"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2352.52,"endTime":2355.82,"body":"for myself, who still include me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2352.52,"endTime":2355.82,"body":"in their decisions, let me know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2355.82,"endTime":2358.22,"body":"what's going on. Because I want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2355.82,"endTime":2358.22,"body":"to be included in their life."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2358.49,"endTime":2361.01,"body":"And, you know, if they're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2358.49,"endTime":2361.01,"body":"sleeping with someone on the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2361.01,"endTime":2362.72,"body":"first date, and going on a date"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2361.01,"endTime":2362.72,"body":"with someone else and sleeping"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2362.72,"endTime":2365.09,"body":"with them, you know, I would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2362.72,"endTime":2365.09,"body":"rather have them trust me enough"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2365.09,"endTime":2367.22,"body":"to share those experiences with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2365.09,"endTime":2367.22,"body":"me than to feel like they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2367.22,"endTime":2367.73,"body":"couldn't."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2368.29,"endTime":2371.32,"body":"Yeah, I would say I"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2368.29,"endTime":2371.32,"body":"echo with everything that you"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2371.32,"endTime":2375.94,"body":"guys have said it's, it's hard."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2371.32,"endTime":2375.94,"body":"It is like, I mean, it's a"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2376.0,"endTime":2379.81,"body":"tricky conversation to have"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2376.0,"endTime":2379.81,"body":"because you you love people on"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2379.81,"endTime":2386.23,"body":"both sides, like there is no one"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2379.81,"endTime":2386.23,"body":"way to handle life. Like there"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2386.23,"endTime":2391.0,"body":"are many paths. And so whatever"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2386.23,"endTime":2391.0,"body":"like you choose, I agree with"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2391.0,"endTime":2394.15,"body":"you, Charlie, like everything"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2391.0,"endTime":2394.15,"body":"that you just said, good way of"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2394.15,"endTime":2399.13,"body":"putting it and happiness can"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2394.15,"endTime":2399.13,"body":"come from multiple paths. That's"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2399.13,"endTime":2402.34,"body":"something I've learned. And"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2399.13,"endTime":2402.34,"body":"wherever you're at whatever you"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2402.34,"endTime":2407.95,"body":"decide to do with your life or"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2402.34,"endTime":2407.95,"body":"in the sexual way or non sexual"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2407.95,"endTime":2412.0,"body":"way, your worth is not"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2407.95,"endTime":2412.0,"body":"determined on that. You are a"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2412.03,"endTime":2416.74,"body":"beautiful being and you are"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2412.03,"endTime":2416.74,"body":"loved. Like that's that would be"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2416.74,"endTime":2419.38,"body":"my, my takeaway is no matter"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2416.74,"endTime":2419.38,"body":"what you are loved."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2419.74,"endTime":2421.84,"body":"Well Derek, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2419.74,"endTime":2421.84,"body":"much for joining us today and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2421.84,"endTime":2423.7,"body":"for sharing your thoughts and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2421.84,"endTime":2423.7,"body":"for being so open and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2423.7,"endTime":2425.65,"body":"vulnerable. That's really a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2423.7,"endTime":2425.65,"body":"gift."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2425.74,"endTime":2428.65,"body":"Of course, my pleasure."},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2425.74,"endTime":2428.65,"body":"And if anyone needs help, like"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2428.65,"endTime":2432.79,"body":"reach out to people that you"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2428.65,"endTime":2432.79,"body":"know, and you can trust and it's"},{"speaker":"Derrick","startTime":2432.79,"endTime":2433.45,"body":"gonna be okay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2433.96,"endTime":2434.83,"body":"Awesome. Thank you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2434.0,"endTime":2437.3,"body":"Thank you for joining"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2434.0,"endTime":2437.3,"body":"us today. If you have enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2437.3,"endTime":2440.21,"body":"this or other episodes, please"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2437.3,"endTime":2440.21,"body":"consider leaving a review. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2440.21,"endTime":2442.52,"body":"as always, please remember that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2440.21,"endTime":2442.52,"body":"we do not represent the Church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2442.52,"endTime":2444.56,"body":"of Jesus Christ of Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2442.52,"endTime":2444.56,"body":"Saints or Brigham Young"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2444.56,"endTime":2447.38,"body":"University. We are not trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2444.56,"endTime":2447.38,"body":"be prescriptive or tell anyone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2447.38,"endTime":2448.58,"body":"what to think or what to do."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2448.88,"endTime":2450.56,"body":"You heard three"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2448.88,"endTime":2450.56,"body":"perspectives and there are many,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2450.59,"endTime":2453.08,"body":"many more. We encourage you to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2450.59,"endTime":2453.08,"body":"listen to other voices and hear"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2453.08,"endTime":2455.36,"body":"a wide variety of experiences."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2453.08,"endTime":2455.36,"body":"If you would like to submit a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2455.36,"endTime":2457.55,"body":"question or share a comment"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2455.36,"endTime":2457.55,"body":"about today's episode, you can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2457.55,"endTime":2459.8,"body":"email us at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2457.55,"endTime":2459.8,"body":"questionsfromthecloset@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2460.58,"endTime":2461.36,"body":"Until next time."}]}