{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.4,"endTime":7.86,"body":"Welcome to Questions from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.4,"endTime":7.86,"body":"the Closet. I'm Ben Schilaty."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":8.07,"endTime":10.62,"body":"And I'm Charlie Bird."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":8.07,"endTime":10.62,"body":"Each episode we discuss a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":10.62,"endTime":13.29,"body":"question that we commonly get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":10.62,"endTime":13.29,"body":"asked as LGBTQ Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.29,"endTime":13.77,"body":"Saints."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":13.92,"endTime":15.69,"body":"We're not trying to answer"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":13.92,"endTime":15.69,"body":"this question or come to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":15.69,"endTime":18.6,"body":"consensus but simply sharing our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":15.69,"endTime":18.6,"body":"perspectives. Today's question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":18.6,"endTime":20.46,"body":"is, how do I figure everything"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":18.6,"endTime":20.46,"body":"out?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":20.55,"endTime":22.53,"body":"Ben and I are not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":20.55,"endTime":22.53,"body":"terribly diverse and we share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.53,"endTime":25.23,"body":"many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.53,"endTime":25.23,"body":"experiences. For example, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":25.23,"endTime":27.42,"body":"both laugh a lot and very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":25.23,"endTime":27.42,"body":"loudly."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":27.54,"endTime":29.46,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":27.54,"endTime":29.46,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":29.46,"endTime":35.73,"body":"example, Charlie snorks when he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":29.46,"endTime":35.73,"body":"laughs. It's very endearing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":35.73,"endTime":36.15,"body":"Charlie."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":36.0,"endTime":38.91,"body":"Thank you. Well, I feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":36.0,"endTime":38.91,"body":"like I have either, I have two"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":38.91,"endTime":41.97,"body":"laughs. I can either honk like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":38.91,"endTime":41.97,"body":"goose or I can snort like a pig."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":42.09,"endTime":45.54,"body":"And if I like tamper the honk I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":42.09,"endTime":45.54,"body":"snort. And if I tamper the snort"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":45.57,"endTime":46.05,"body":"then I honk."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":46.08,"endTime":48.63,"body":"But you also have this like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":46.08,"endTime":48.63,"body":"inhale laugh kinda."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":48.66,"endTime":49.77,"body":"That's the honk I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":48.66,"endTime":49.77,"body":"talking about."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.77,"endTime":50.25,"body":"That's the honk?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":56.52,"endTime":57.99,"body":"Anyway, you laugh"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":56.52,"endTime":57.99,"body":"loudly."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":58.11,"endTime":59.55,"body":"I do. I do everything"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":58.11,"endTime":59.55,"body":"loudly."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":59.61,"endTime":62.13,"body":"Ben scares me all the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":59.61,"endTime":62.13,"body":"time. He'll be like, hey,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":62.13,"endTime":63.09,"body":"Charlie. Haha."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":63.87,"endTime":65.28,"body":"I'm not trying to scare"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":63.87,"endTime":65.28,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.31,"endTime":67.98,"body":"He's just so jolly and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.31,"endTime":67.98,"body":"nice. And he laughs so much."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":68.04,"endTime":71.07,"body":"It's true. When I laugh a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":68.04,"endTime":71.07,"body":"lot. I like show my gums a lot."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":71.07,"endTime":73.35,"body":"I don't know if that's like an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":71.07,"endTime":73.35,"body":"evolutionary thing to like, show"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":73.35,"endTime":74.4,"body":"my dominance. I don't know."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":74.49,"endTime":75.42,"body":"Oh my gosh."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":76.83,"endTime":79.2,"body":"But, but, like if there's a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":76.83,"endTime":79.2,"body":"picture of me like laughing at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.47,"endTime":80.97,"body":"you, like see all of my gums."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":81.389,"endTime":81.869,"body":"Cute."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":81.899,"endTime":84.599,"body":"I don't think it looks good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":81.899,"endTime":84.599,"body":"at all. But I can't help it. It"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":84.599,"endTime":85.499,"body":"just happens naturally."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":85.89,"endTime":87.66,"body":"We like to provide a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":85.89,"endTime":87.66,"body":"variety of voices and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":87.66,"endTime":89.55,"body":"perspectives. So today, we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":87.66,"endTime":89.55,"body":"joined by Joey."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":89.72,"endTime":90.89,"body":"Hey, Joey, tell us about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":89.72,"endTime":90.89,"body":"yourself."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":91.22,"endTime":95.36,"body":"I am just about to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":91.22,"endTime":95.36,"body":"graduate, BYU with my bachelor's"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":95.36,"endTime":97.7,"body":"and Family Studies, which is"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":95.36,"endTime":97.7,"body":"very exciting."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":97.76,"endTime":98.03,"body":"Congraduation."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":99.38,"endTime":102.62,"body":"Thanks. There's not going"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":99.38,"endTime":102.62,"body":"to be a graduation, sadly, but"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":102.68,"endTime":105.98,"body":"and then I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":102.68,"endTime":105.98,"body":"starting my Master's this fall"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":106.04,"endTime":108.68,"body":"at BYU as well. I'm queer."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":109.04,"endTime":110.12,"body":"You can talk about how you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":109.04,"endTime":110.12,"body":"know me."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":110.63,"endTime":114.38,"body":"Oh, you want me to tell"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":110.63,"endTime":114.38,"body":"the whole story of how we met?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":114.41,"endTime":115.34,"body":"Very briefly. Yes."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":115.36,"endTime":118.18,"body":"Okay. So basically, I'm"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":115.36,"endTime":118.18,"body":"seeing this therapist. I was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":118.18,"endTime":121.57,"body":"having a very hard time my"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":118.18,"endTime":121.57,"body":"freshman semester at BYU. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":121.57,"endTime":123.91,"body":"he's like, no, like BYU is"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":121.57,"endTime":123.91,"body":"trying to make it better. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":123.91,"endTime":127.36,"body":"like, how like they have a group"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":123.91,"endTime":127.36,"body":"of people. Like you should meet"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":127.63,"endTime":131.08,"body":"this one person. And so I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":127.63,"endTime":131.08,"body":"reached out to Ben over"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":131.08,"endTime":133.84,"body":"Facebook. And he's like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":131.08,"endTime":133.84,"body":"let's meet up for lunch. And I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":133.84,"endTime":136.03,"body":"said, No, I don't want to be"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":133.84,"endTime":136.03,"body":"seen in public with you."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":136.06,"endTime":138.04,"body":"And I was like, how dare"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":136.06,"endTime":138.04,"body":"you not want to be seen with me?"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":138.49,"endTime":140.86,"body":"I'm like, no way. I did"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":138.49,"endTime":140.86,"body":"not want to be associated with"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":140.86,"endTime":144.4,"body":"anyone that was out or had any"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":140.86,"endTime":144.4,"body":"rainbow on them or anything. I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":144.4,"endTime":147.79,"body":"just was so scared. So instead,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":144.4,"endTime":147.79,"body":"we met at his very tiny office,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":147.79,"endTime":150.76,"body":"and he offered me a nutrigrain"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":147.79,"endTime":150.76,"body":"bar. It was very nice."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":150.79,"endTime":152.92,"body":"My adjunct office was a,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":150.79,"endTime":152.92,"body":"basically a closet with a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":152.92,"endTime":156.55,"body":"window. But it was lovely. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":152.92,"endTime":156.55,"body":"And we used to live together."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":157.06,"endTime":158.17,"body":"We did. Yes."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":158.2,"endTime":159.76,"body":"You actually lived in this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":158.2,"endTime":159.76,"body":"very room."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":160.03,"endTime":161.11,"body":"Yes, I did."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":161.14,"endTime":162.37,"body":"Just like on the weekdays."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":162.52,"endTime":162.97,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":163.03,"endTime":165.04,"body":"Yeah. So Joey would come"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":163.03,"endTime":165.04,"body":"hang out on the weekdays when we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":165.04,"endTime":166.9,"body":"went to BYU then he would drive"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":165.04,"endTime":166.9,"body":"home on the weekends."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":167.08,"endTime":168.34,"body":"Doesn't Joey cut your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":167.08,"endTime":168.34,"body":"hair?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":168.37,"endTime":169.63,"body":"Joey used to cut my hair."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":169.78,"endTime":173.26,"body":"I still do occasionally."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":169.78,"endTime":173.26,"body":"Whenever like, he gets it cut"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":173.26,"endTime":174.94,"body":"and he complains and then I have"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":173.26,"endTime":174.94,"body":"to fix it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":174.449,"endTime":177.059,"body":"There's actually a funny"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":174.449,"endTime":177.059,"body":"story. He would just do the"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":176.25,"endTime":191.82,"body":"Yes, and then I cut it"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":176.25,"endTime":191.82,"body":"next time and it looked amazing."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":177.059,"endTime":179.759,"body":"sides like amazingly well. The"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":177.059,"endTime":179.759,"body":"one time he cut the top and lik"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":179.819,"endTime":182.489,"body":"it did not turn out very well"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":179.819,"endTime":182.489,"body":"And the next morning, I wa"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":182.489,"endTime":185.129,"body":"praying and I was like Heavenl"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":182.489,"endTime":185.129,"body":"Father. I'm grateful that hai"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":185.129,"endTime":186.749,"body":"grows. I just started laughing"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":192.54,"endTime":195.45,"body":"Tip do not criticize your"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":192.54,"endTime":195.45,"body":"hairdresser. Otherwise they'll"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":195.45,"endTime":196.2,"body":"mess up your hair."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.6,"endTime":199.27,"body":"Joey's like, next time"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.6,"endTime":199.27,"body":"I cut your hair Ben, I'm shaving"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":199.27,"endTime":199.6,"body":"it off."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":200.44,"endTime":202.84,"body":"Yeah. So we're here to talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":200.44,"endTime":202.84,"body":"about what if we don't have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":202.84,"endTime":205.36,"body":"things figured out? And Joey,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":202.84,"endTime":205.36,"body":"what I invite you to be on the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":205.36,"endTime":207.91,"body":"podcast. One things I said he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":205.36,"endTime":207.91,"body":"was I was worried that about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":207.91,"endTime":209.59,"body":"interviewing you because I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":207.91,"endTime":209.59,"body":"thought well, in six months, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":209.59,"endTime":211.9,"body":"might be like, take it down."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":209.59,"endTime":211.9,"body":"I've changed my mind."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":212.17,"endTime":215.14,"body":"Yes. And that is exactly"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":212.17,"endTime":215.14,"body":"right which is why I'm an expert"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":215.14,"endTime":218.02,"body":"in this topic. Because in six"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":215.14,"endTime":218.02,"body":"months from now, I might be"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":218.02,"endTime":220.45,"body":"like, hey, you should take it"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":218.02,"endTime":220.45,"body":"down except about this topic"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":220.45,"endTime":223.36,"body":"because we're talking about I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":220.45,"endTime":223.36,"body":"don't have anything figured out."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":223.84,"endTime":226.12,"body":"So in six months from now, I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":223.84,"endTime":226.12,"body":"will still have nothing figured"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":226.12,"endTime":226.42,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":226.51,"endTime":228.58,"body":"Okay, well, Joey, talk to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":226.51,"endTime":228.58,"body":"us about the pressure of like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":228.64,"endTime":230.14,"body":"needing to figure things out."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":230.49,"endTime":233.73,"body":"So around the time that I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":230.49,"endTime":233.73,"body":"actually, you know, we met and I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":233.76,"endTime":238.32,"body":"met Charlie, shortly thereafter,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":233.76,"endTime":238.32,"body":"I was meeting a lot of people in"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":238.32,"endTime":242.19,"body":"the LGBTQ community, or SSA, or"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":238.32,"endTime":242.19,"body":"whoever they chose to identify"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":242.22,"endTime":245.07,"body":"that were also members of the"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":242.22,"endTime":245.07,"body":"church, or previously members of"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":245.07,"endTime":247.62,"body":"the church. And so I was meeting"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":245.07,"endTime":247.62,"body":"all these people, and all of"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":247.62,"endTime":250.5,"body":"them just seemed really, really"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":247.62,"endTime":250.5,"body":"grounded. Like they knew what"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":250.5,"endTime":253.77,"body":"they wanted. Like both of you,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":250.5,"endTime":253.77,"body":"you know, you both just had"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":253.77,"endTime":255.24,"body":"books that just came out"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":253.77,"endTime":255.24,"body":"recently."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":255.96,"endTime":256.44,"body":"Did we?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":257.34,"endTime":258.42,"body":"Tell me more about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":257.34,"endTime":258.42,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":260.46,"endTime":264.78,"body":"And well, the whole point"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":260.46,"endTime":264.78,"body":"is, I would see books like that,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":264.81,"endTime":267.57,"body":"and I would read them. And I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":264.81,"endTime":267.57,"body":"would think, gosh, this person"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":267.57,"endTime":270.78,"body":"has it like figured out. I need"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":267.57,"endTime":270.78,"body":"to have this figured out and"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":271.02,"endTime":273.99,"body":"during this time, I was also"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":271.02,"endTime":273.99,"body":"seeing people who, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":273.99,"endTime":276.33,"body":"were like leaving their wives."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":273.99,"endTime":276.33,"body":"It was the worst decision ever"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":276.33,"endTime":278.79,"body":"made. And they never should have"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":276.33,"endTime":278.79,"body":"done that, entered into the"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":278.79,"endTime":281.22,"body":"mixed orientation marriage. I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":278.79,"endTime":281.22,"body":"was seeing people come back to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":281.22,"endTime":284.91,"body":"the church like after 60 years."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":281.22,"endTime":284.91,"body":"And so just seeing all these"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":284.91,"endTime":287.19,"body":"different stories and just"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":284.91,"endTime":287.19,"body":"feeling like I need to figure"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":287.19,"endTime":291.27,"body":"this out right now so that I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":287.19,"endTime":291.27,"body":"never have to like, regret a"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":291.27,"endTime":294.27,"body":"decision that I've made. I need"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":291.27,"endTime":294.27,"body":"to figure it out right now. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":294.27,"endTime":299.01,"body":"that was like killing me. I was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":294.27,"endTime":299.01,"body":"just so exhausted all the time."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":299.04,"endTime":302.91,"body":"It was constantly on my mind. I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":299.04,"endTime":302.91,"body":"would say that that's when I did"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":302.91,"endTime":305.13,"body":"the worst in school. I just"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":302.91,"endTime":305.13,"body":"couldn't focus on anything else"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":305.13,"endTime":308.64,"body":"just because I felt like for me"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":305.13,"endTime":308.64,"body":"this felt like that this was a"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":308.64,"endTime":310.65,"body":"decision that was gonna affect"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":308.64,"endTime":310.65,"body":"the rest of my life. I needed to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":310.65,"endTime":311.64,"body":"decide now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":312.18,"endTime":313.89,"body":"Yeah, it's funny to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":312.18,"endTime":313.89,"body":"hear you talking from your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":313.89,"endTime":316.77,"body":"perspective, because you met me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":313.89,"endTime":316.77,"body":"like a week after you met Ben, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":316.77,"endTime":318.81,"body":"think because me and Ben, were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":316.77,"endTime":318.81,"body":"both on that group at BYU."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":318.81,"endTime":320.43,"body":"You actually met me on my"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":318.81,"endTime":320.43,"body":"birthday."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":320.61,"endTime":322.14,"body":"Oh, yeah, I remember"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":320.61,"endTime":322.14,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":322.03,"endTime":323.5,"body":"Oh, yeah. At that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":322.03,"endTime":323.5,"body":"gathering."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":323.83,"endTime":326.32,"body":"Ben was like, \"This kid"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":323.83,"endTime":326.32,"body":"is coming over. And it's his"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":326.32,"endTime":330.46,"body":"birthday. So be nice to him.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":326.32,"endTime":330.46,"body":"And we were like, Okay, go"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":330.46,"endTime":330.7,"body":"ahead."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":330.7,"endTime":332.14,"body":"He's gay. And no one knows."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":332.8,"endTime":334.69,"body":"It's true. No one knows."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":335.23,"endTime":337.09,"body":"And yeah, no one really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":335.23,"endTime":337.09,"body":"did know. It's funny, though"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":337.09,"endTime":339.61,"body":"because it's interesting to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":337.09,"endTime":339.61,"body":"think about you thinking that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":339.61,"endTime":343.93,"body":"had or have everything figured"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":339.61,"endTime":343.93,"body":"out when like, I also didn't, at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":343.93,"endTime":346.84,"body":"all, I was just like, a little"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":343.93,"endTime":346.84,"body":"further into the process than"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":346.84,"endTime":350.65,"body":"you were because I'd associated"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":346.84,"endTime":350.65,"body":"with gay people, like six months"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":350.65,"endTime":355.24,"body":"more at that period, because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":350.65,"endTime":355.24,"body":"was not out there either. Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":355.24,"endTime":357.19,"body":"the only people who knew I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":355.24,"endTime":357.19,"body":"gay was like a couple family"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":357.19,"endTime":359.95,"body":"members and like the people in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":357.19,"endTime":359.95,"body":"that group. So..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":360.58,"endTime":362.5,"body":"An interesting, I know, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":360.58,"endTime":362.5,"body":"shouldn't talk about our books"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":362.5,"endTime":365.02,"body":"all the time. But I was thinking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":362.5,"endTime":365.02,"body":"today, like, if I had written my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":365.02,"endTime":367.18,"body":"book 10 years ago, like what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":365.02,"endTime":367.18,"body":"would it say?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":367.33,"endTime":367.81,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":367.93,"endTime":369.64,"body":"And like, if I wrote a book"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":367.93,"endTime":369.64,"body":"10 years from now, like, what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":369.64,"endTime":372.4,"body":"would that say? And I actually"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":369.64,"endTime":372.4,"body":"started writing a book like 10"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":372.4,"endTime":375.94,"body":"years ago. And it was terrible."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":372.4,"endTime":375.94,"body":"Like, it was all about, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":375.97,"endTime":378.49,"body":"how I felt like God was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":375.97,"endTime":378.49,"body":"requiring me to suffer for my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":378.49,"endTime":381.28,"body":"entire life. I know, it was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":378.49,"endTime":381.28,"body":"really sad. I was in a dark"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":381.28,"endTime":381.73,"body":"place."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":381.81,"endTime":383.61,"body":"Yeah. And now you don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":381.81,"endTime":383.61,"body":"like books like that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":383.64,"endTime":384.48,"body":"I don't."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":384.75,"endTime":385.02,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":385.14,"endTime":387.69,"body":"So Joey, you look at people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":385.14,"endTime":387.69,"body":"like us, and you're like Ben and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":387.69,"endTime":390.0,"body":"Charlie, have it all figured"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":387.69,"endTime":390.0,"body":"out. And you feel like, you feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":390.0,"endTime":391.26,"body":"pressure to feel that way too?"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":391.75,"endTime":395.47,"body":"Well, yeah, I think, in my"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":391.75,"endTime":395.47,"body":"mind, I was thinking, I just"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":395.47,"endTime":399.43,"body":"have to find the right person."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":395.47,"endTime":399.43,"body":"And they're going to tell me"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":399.46,"endTime":402.61,"body":"what I need to do. And it's"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":399.46,"endTime":402.61,"body":"going to feel right for me. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":402.61,"endTime":405.94,"body":"so I kept on listening to more"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":402.61,"endTime":405.94,"body":"and more people's stories. And I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":405.94,"endTime":409.78,"body":"kept on meeting more and more"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":405.94,"endTime":409.78,"body":"people. And I would say there's"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":409.78,"endTime":413.14,"body":"been many people who helped me"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":409.78,"endTime":413.14,"body":"along my journey, who helped me"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":413.14,"endTime":415.42,"body":"try to figure things out. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":413.14,"endTime":415.42,"body":"they would support me in the"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":415.42,"endTime":418.75,"body":"sense of \"Yes, and this is the"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":415.42,"endTime":418.75,"body":"right path for you.\" Whether it"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":418.75,"endTime":421.99,"body":"being leaving the church, or"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":418.75,"endTime":421.99,"body":"staying in the church, or"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":422.17,"endTime":425.23,"body":"staying the church, but still"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":422.17,"endTime":425.23,"body":"having a same sex partner. They"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":425.23,"endTime":428.98,"body":"all felt that their journey was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":425.23,"endTime":428.98,"body":"also going to be my journey. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":428.98,"endTime":432.85,"body":"so I just was feeling this huge"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":428.98,"endTime":432.85,"body":"confliction that I needed to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":432.85,"endTime":437.89,"body":"make this decision. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":432.85,"endTime":437.89,"body":"ultimately, I came to this point"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":437.92,"endTime":441.88,"body":"of where I and it like, and this"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":437.92,"endTime":441.88,"body":"was not an easy process, this"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":441.88,"endTime":445.18,"body":"was like over the course of two"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":441.88,"endTime":445.18,"body":"years where I'm like, I need to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":445.18,"endTime":450.64,"body":"choose. And I had this"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":445.18,"endTime":450.64,"body":"experience where I realized that"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":450.79,"endTime":455.17,"body":"I didn't need to choose right"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":450.79,"endTime":455.17,"body":"now. And as soon as I realized"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":455.17,"endTime":457.45,"body":"that, that I didn't need to make"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":455.17,"endTime":457.45,"body":"a decision right now that it's"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":457.45,"endTime":460.96,"body":"okay that like, for example,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":457.45,"endTime":460.96,"body":"that I can change the label I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":460.96,"endTime":466.0,"body":"use, or change my mind about"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":460.96,"endTime":466.0,"body":"things. I felt this like, not"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":466.0,"endTime":468.73,"body":"just this weight off this, like"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":466.0,"endTime":468.73,"body":"my shoulders, I really just felt"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":468.73,"endTime":472.27,"body":"like I could start living, that"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":468.73,"endTime":472.27,"body":"I could start living without"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":472.27,"endTime":475.75,"body":"fear that I was doing the wrong"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":472.27,"endTime":475.75,"body":"thing, that I was making the"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":475.75,"endTime":476.65,"body":"wrong decision."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":477.07,"endTime":478.9,"body":"Tell us about this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":477.07,"endTime":478.9,"body":"experience that got you to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":478.9,"endTime":480.52,"body":"place where you felt it was okay"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":478.9,"endTime":480.52,"body":"to change your mind."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":481.05,"endTime":486.18,"body":"Well, I think I thought"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":481.05,"endTime":486.18,"body":"\"I've made my decision.\" And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":486.18,"endTime":490.59,"body":"then, throughout that process, I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":486.18,"endTime":490.59,"body":"just realized that I actually"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":490.59,"endTime":494.22,"body":"don't think that that was for"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":490.59,"endTime":494.22,"body":"me. Yeah. So then I came back to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":494.22,"endTime":497.22,"body":"church. It's not like I was gone"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":494.22,"endTime":497.22,"body":"for that long either. This was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":497.22,"endTime":500.67,"body":"like a course of like, three"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":497.22,"endTime":500.67,"body":"months. And I came back to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":500.67,"endTime":503.61,"body":"church. And then after being at"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":500.67,"endTime":503.61,"body":"church for a few months, I was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":503.61,"endTime":505.71,"body":"like, actually, I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":503.61,"endTime":505.71,"body":"I want to be here, either. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":505.71,"endTime":508.53,"body":"then I'm like, \"Oh, my gosh, I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":505.71,"endTime":508.53,"body":"thought I totally had this"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":508.53,"endTime":511.23,"body":"figured out.\" And I'm gonna be"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":508.53,"endTime":511.23,"body":"honest, it wasn't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":511.23,"endTime":513.75,"body":"like one experience. But it was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":511.23,"endTime":513.75,"body":"like a course of many"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":513.75,"endTime":517.41,"body":"experiences. Like, for example,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":513.75,"endTime":517.41,"body":"some of them were spiritual"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":517.41,"endTime":520.38,"body":"experiences. And some of them"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":517.41,"endTime":520.38,"body":"were like, kind of the absence"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":520.38,"endTime":523.35,"body":"of the Spirit experiences. Like"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":520.38,"endTime":523.35,"body":"I don't know, Ben, you gave me a"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":523.35,"endTime":527.61,"body":"blessing once. And that was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":523.35,"endTime":527.61,"body":"really a part of it. But I think"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":527.61,"endTime":531.57,"body":"it really just came down to, I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":527.61,"endTime":531.57,"body":"felt the pressure that I needed"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":531.57,"endTime":535.02,"body":"to make a decision was because"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":531.57,"endTime":535.02,"body":"everyone kept on asking me all"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":535.02,"endTime":540.45,"body":"the time. And I just had all of"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":535.02,"endTime":540.45,"body":"these people in my life, who I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":540.45,"endTime":543.36,"body":"knew that if I made this"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":540.45,"endTime":543.36,"body":"decision that I would lose them."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":543.75,"endTime":546.57,"body":"And that's on both sides of the"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":543.75,"endTime":546.57,"body":"coin of I would lose people in"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":546.57,"endTime":549.6,"body":"the church, or I would lose"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":546.57,"endTime":549.6,"body":"people, my friends in the LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":549.6,"endTime":554.79,"body":"community. So I just felt like I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":549.6,"endTime":554.79,"body":"needed to make a decision now"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":554.79,"endTime":559.23,"body":"before I lost anyone. And I know"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":554.79,"endTime":559.23,"body":"it seems like logical, you"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":559.23,"endTime":561.18,"body":"should already know that you"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":559.23,"endTime":561.18,"body":"can't control whether or not you"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":561.18,"endTime":565.83,"body":"lose people. When I just"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":561.18,"endTime":565.83,"body":"realized I didn't have to make a"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":565.83,"endTime":568.62,"body":"decision right now, Ben, I don't"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":565.83,"endTime":568.62,"body":"know, remember, if you remember"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":568.62,"endTime":572.58,"body":"this conversation we had, but we"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":568.62,"endTime":572.58,"body":"were sitting down. And we were"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":572.58,"endTime":576.81,"body":"talking about how hard it is to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":572.58,"endTime":576.81,"body":"be in the church and to be a"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":576.81,"endTime":580.17,"body":"query Latter-day Saint. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":576.81,"endTime":580.17,"body":"this, just to kind of like live"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":580.17,"endTime":582.42,"body":"in this weird gray area where"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":580.17,"endTime":582.42,"body":"you don't feel like there's a"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":582.42,"endTime":586.56,"body":"lot of guidance. And we were"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":582.42,"endTime":586.56,"body":"talking and I don't remember"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":586.56,"endTime":590.37,"body":"exactly what you said. But I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":586.56,"endTime":590.37,"body":"just remember saying \"Yes, Ben,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":590.37,"endTime":593.73,"body":"but like, what if I just never"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":590.37,"endTime":593.73,"body":"make a decision?\" And you said,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":593.73,"endTime":597.51,"body":"\"Well, I hope that you lived"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":593.73,"endTime":597.51,"body":"your life happily\", or something"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":597.51,"endTime":598.38,"body":"along those lines."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":598.44,"endTime":599.7,"body":"That sounds like something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":598.44,"endTime":599.7,"body":"I would say."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":600.2,"endTime":603.47,"body":"And, you know, it was just"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":600.2,"endTime":603.47,"body":"in that moment that I just"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":603.59,"endTime":608.06,"body":"realized that like, the thing"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":603.59,"endTime":608.06,"body":"that was tearing me down was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":608.06,"endTime":611.78,"body":"like, ruining my life so to say."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":608.06,"endTime":611.78,"body":"It wasn't necessarily that I was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":611.78,"endTime":614.66,"body":"a queer Latter-day Saint it was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":611.78,"endTime":614.66,"body":"that I felt I needed to make"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":614.66,"endTime":617.12,"body":"this decision. And as soon as I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":614.66,"endTime":617.12,"body":"realized I didn't need to make"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":617.12,"endTime":620.57,"body":"this decision right now, in this"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":617.12,"endTime":620.57,"body":"moment, that I could take time"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":620.57,"endTime":624.17,"body":"to figure it out, that I could"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":620.57,"endTime":624.17,"body":"change my mind, that in six"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":624.17,"endTime":627.38,"body":"months from now, I could be"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":624.17,"endTime":627.38,"body":"like, no, take down the podcast"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":627.38,"endTime":629.6,"body":"that I did about, you know, when"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":627.38,"endTime":629.6,"body":"I said, I had everything figured"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":629.6,"endTime":633.35,"body":"out like that, that's okay. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":629.6,"endTime":633.35,"body":"that it's okay to change. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":633.35,"endTime":637.67,"body":"that I just want to be able to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":633.35,"endTime":637.67,"body":"live my life so that if I never,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":637.67,"endTime":640.85,"body":"ever end up making a decision"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":637.67,"endTime":640.85,"body":"and the end of my life, I'm 80"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":640.85,"endTime":643.1,"body":"years old, I can look back and"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":640.85,"endTime":643.1,"body":"say, you know, I had a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":643.1,"endTime":643.55,"body":"life."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":644.57,"endTime":646.04,"body":"Yeah, thanks for sharing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":644.57,"endTime":646.04,"body":"that Joey."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":646.19,"endTime":646.55,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":646.61,"endTime":648.14,"body":"I'm glad to give you some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":646.61,"endTime":648.14,"body":"good advice once."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":648.56,"endTime":651.77,"body":"Yes, well, I attribute it"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":648.56,"endTime":651.77,"body":"to the Spirit, you know, it was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":651.77,"endTime":652.82,"body":"God speaking through you."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":653.29,"endTime":655.6,"body":"That's fair. Yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":653.29,"endTime":655.6,"body":"know, as I've been thinking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":655.6,"endTime":657.97,"body":"back, like, on my own life,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":655.6,"endTime":657.97,"body":"because I feel like I'm in like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":657.97,"endTime":660.4,"body":"a very settled place right now."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":657.97,"endTime":660.4,"body":"But I don't know what the future"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":660.4,"endTime":662.8,"body":"is gonna look like, like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":660.4,"endTime":662.8,"body":"don't know, what choices I'll"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":662.8,"endTime":666.22,"body":"make or what's gonna feel right"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":662.8,"endTime":666.22,"body":"to me. But I remember when I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":666.37,"endTime":670.48,"body":"23, I, like gave up on on dating"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":666.37,"endTime":670.48,"body":"women. And then I felt very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":670.48,"endTime":673.6,"body":"prompted to continue dating"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":670.48,"endTime":673.6,"body":"women. And that was 100% the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":673.6,"endTime":675.97,"body":"right thing for me to do. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":673.6,"endTime":675.97,"body":"then again, it wasn't the thing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":675.97,"endTime":679.54,"body":"that, I wasn't going to end up"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":675.97,"endTime":679.54,"body":"marrying a woman. And once"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":679.54,"endTime":682.33,"body":"again, like with Jordan, I felt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":679.54,"endTime":682.33,"body":"prompted to date Jordan. And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":682.36,"endTime":684.37,"body":"you know, it's interesting, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":682.36,"endTime":684.37,"body":"feel like there have been these"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":684.37,"endTime":686.53,"body":"times where I've, like made"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":684.37,"endTime":686.53,"body":"really different shifts in how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":686.53,"endTime":689.5,"body":"I'm living. And, you know, if I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":686.53,"endTime":689.5,"body":"were to like, say, at one point,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":689.5,"endTime":693.73,"body":"like, Okay, this is what I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":689.5,"endTime":693.73,"body":"going to do forever. That, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":693.73,"endTime":696.28,"body":"just, it is important that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":693.73,"endTime":696.28,"body":"gave myself permission to change"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":696.28,"endTime":696.82,"body":"my mind."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":696.96,"endTime":698.79,"body":"And that's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":696.96,"endTime":698.79,"body":"pressure to say that this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":698.79,"endTime":701.16,"body":"what I'm going to do forever."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":698.79,"endTime":701.16,"body":"And honestly, when I was writing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":701.16,"endTime":703.56,"body":"my book, I was also really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":701.16,"endTime":703.56,"body":"worried about that. So I tried"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":703.56,"endTime":707.7,"body":"to write it in a way, where I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":703.56,"endTime":707.7,"body":"never said that and only share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":707.7,"endTime":710.4,"body":"things that I like, truly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":707.7,"endTime":710.4,"body":"believed would always stay the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":710.4,"endTime":714.48,"body":"same, like principles and values"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":710.4,"endTime":714.48,"body":"I've had, and do have, but like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":714.75,"endTime":717.27,"body":"as far as like, what my life's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":714.75,"endTime":717.27,"body":"gonna look like, I really don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":717.27,"endTime":719.4,"body":"even like that question. I hate"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":717.27,"endTime":719.4,"body":"when people are like, Well,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":719.4,"endTime":721.71,"body":"where do you see yourself in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":719.4,"endTime":721.71,"body":"five years and 10 years? Because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":721.89,"endTime":724.71,"body":"\"A\" I don't think anyone can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":721.89,"endTime":724.71,"body":"really answer that. Because who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":724.71,"endTime":725.01,"body":"knows."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":725.01,"endTime":725.76,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":725.81,"endTime":729.83,"body":"But also like, in our"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":725.81,"endTime":729.83,"body":"situation, specifically, how do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":729.83,"endTime":733.49,"body":"you answer that when like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":729.83,"endTime":733.49,"body":"things change so quickly? Even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":733.49,"endTime":736.91,"body":"policies change quickly and have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":733.49,"endTime":736.91,"body":"recently over the past year. How"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":736.91,"endTime":740.39,"body":"can we be expected to like, put"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":736.91,"endTime":740.39,"body":"ourselves in a lane and tell"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":740.39,"endTime":744.44,"body":"everyone, we're gonna stay there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":740.39,"endTime":744.44,"body":"forever, or expect everyone to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":744.44,"endTime":746.87,"body":"stay in that lane forever, when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":744.44,"endTime":746.87,"body":"that's just not the reality of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":746.87,"endTime":748.4,"body":"life. That's not the way things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":746.87,"endTime":748.4,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":748.46,"endTime":750.59,"body":"You know, I'm reading this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":748.46,"endTime":750.59,"body":"book right now by David Epstein."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":750.62,"endTime":753.02,"body":"It's very good. It's called"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":750.62,"endTime":753.02,"body":"\"Range\". And the chapter I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":753.02,"endTime":756.98,"body":"read, he was talking about how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":753.02,"endTime":756.98,"body":"people, it's often better"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":756.98,"endTime":761.36,"body":"instead of making a goal, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":756.98,"endTime":761.36,"body":"then going toward that goal, to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":761.48,"endTime":763.1,"body":"take the opportunity, look at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":761.48,"endTime":763.1,"body":"the opportunities you have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":763.1,"endTime":766.82,"body":"available to you, and then pick"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":763.1,"endTime":766.82,"body":"the best one, because no one's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":766.82,"endTime":768.62,"body":"life ends up with the way that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":766.82,"endTime":768.62,"body":"they expected."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":768.93,"endTime":771.75,"body":"It almost reminds me of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":768.93,"endTime":771.75,"body":"the navigation on your phone,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":772.02,"endTime":774.12,"body":"when you're driving, and you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":772.02,"endTime":774.12,"body":"think you have the best route,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":774.12,"endTime":776.16,"body":"but maybe there's traffic or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":774.12,"endTime":776.16,"body":"something. So it's always,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":776.16,"endTime":778.86,"body":"constantly scanning to see what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":776.16,"endTime":778.86,"body":"obstacles are there and what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":778.86,"endTime":782.04,"body":"alternative routes are going to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":778.86,"endTime":782.04,"body":"get you to the destination the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":782.04,"endTime":785.64,"body":"best way, and you don't really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":782.04,"endTime":785.64,"body":"know what that's gonna be like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":785.67,"endTime":788.13,"body":"and what roads you might take if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":785.67,"endTime":788.13,"body":"you're going on like a cross"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":788.13,"endTime":791.97,"body":"country road trip, but you just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":788.13,"endTime":791.97,"body":"have complete, like, always be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":791.97,"endTime":793.86,"body":"scanning for, for what's next."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":794.28,"endTime":796.32,"body":"You know, and let's be"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":794.28,"endTime":796.32,"body":"honest, you know, we as humans,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":796.32,"endTime":798.81,"body":"we want to have a straight"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":796.32,"endTime":798.81,"body":"course. We want to know exactly"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":798.81,"endTime":802.11,"body":"where we're going to go. And we"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":798.81,"endTime":802.11,"body":"also want to know where other"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":802.11,"endTime":805.32,"body":"people are going to go. We don't"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":802.11,"endTime":805.32,"body":"like it when people change, when"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":805.32,"endTime":809.04,"body":"they change who they are, or how"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":805.32,"endTime":809.04,"body":"they view themselves. Because"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":809.04,"endTime":810.93,"body":"that might affect our"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":809.04,"endTime":810.93,"body":"relationships. We want people to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":810.93,"endTime":813.69,"body":"be stable. We want stable"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":810.93,"endTime":813.69,"body":"relationships, with friendships,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":813.84,"endTime":818.52,"body":"with people. And so I think it"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":813.84,"endTime":818.52,"body":"can be really hard when people"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":818.52,"endTime":821.64,"body":"change their minds, or when you"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":818.52,"endTime":821.64,"body":"feel like they've changed that"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":821.64,"endTime":824.34,"body":"they're a different person. You"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":821.64,"endTime":824.34,"body":"know, but like, exactly, you're"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":824.34,"endTime":826.95,"body":"saying, Charlie, no one has"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":824.34,"endTime":826.95,"body":"their life figured out. I'm"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":826.95,"endTime":830.46,"body":"like, 10 years ago, I was a"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":826.95,"endTime":830.46,"body":"deacon passing the sacrament."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":830.49,"endTime":831.9,"body":"That was 10 years ago."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":830.49,"endTime":831.9,"body":"You're a child."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":831.9,"endTime":835.89,"body":"I know, crazy. I know."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":831.9,"endTime":835.89,"body":"And, you know, did I ever think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":835.92,"endTime":840.42,"body":"I would be you know, right now"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":835.92,"endTime":840.42,"body":"graduating from BYU with painted"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":840.42,"endTime":843.9,"body":"nails, which you can't see, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":840.42,"endTime":843.9,"body":"they look amazing. Like, no, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":843.9,"endTime":847.92,"body":"would think that was ridiculous."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":843.9,"endTime":847.92,"body":"And I think that's like, where,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":848.22,"endTime":851.76,"body":"like when I say that I have like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":848.22,"endTime":851.76,"body":"peace now. You know, just, just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":851.76,"endTime":854.58,"body":"like being okay that I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":851.76,"endTime":854.58,"body":"have everything figured out."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":854.85,"endTime":857.16,"body":"Like, it's not like my life is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":854.85,"endTime":857.16,"body":"always peaceful. It's still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":857.16,"endTime":860.67,"body":"hard. You know, I would say both"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":857.16,"endTime":860.67,"body":"of you can agree where knowing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":860.67,"endTime":864.03,"body":"that sometimes you're going to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":860.67,"endTime":864.03,"body":"make friends that you know, who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":864.03,"endTime":866.04,"body":"are sometimes members of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":864.03,"endTime":866.04,"body":"church and they feel it's their"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":866.04,"endTime":869.16,"body":"duty to tell you, \"Well, if you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":866.04,"endTime":869.16,"body":"ever leave, we can't be friends"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":869.16,"endTime":871.83,"body":"anymore.\" And that sucks. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":869.16,"endTime":871.83,"body":"then on the flip side, people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":871.83,"endTime":874.32,"body":"LGBTQ community, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":871.83,"endTime":874.32,"body":"\"Well, if you ever marry a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":874.32,"endTime":877.86,"body":"woman, we can't be friends like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":874.32,"endTime":877.86,"body":"that. That also sucks. You know?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":878.32,"endTime":880.93,"body":"I feel like especially in this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":878.32,"endTime":880.93,"body":"space, because it's so ambiguous"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":880.93,"endTime":883.6,"body":"sometimes everyone wants to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":880.93,"endTime":883.6,"body":"superimpose someone's story onto"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":883.6,"endTime":886.45,"body":"someone else, or when someone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":883.6,"endTime":886.45,"body":"does something that's different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":887.38,"endTime":890.5,"body":"a lot of people feel threatened"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":887.38,"endTime":890.5,"body":"by that. For example, like if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":890.5,"endTime":893.5,"body":"Ben did something that I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":890.5,"endTime":893.5,"body":"doing, like why would I feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":893.5,"endTime":898.24,"body":"threatened by Ben being Ben's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":893.5,"endTime":898.24,"body":"version of Ben. Like I can, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":898.24,"endTime":901.09,"body":"don't have to be Ben's version"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":898.24,"endTime":901.09,"body":"of Charlie. I should be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":901.09,"endTime":904.9,"body":"Charlie's version of Charlie."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":901.09,"endTime":904.9,"body":"And for some reason, like, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":904.9,"endTime":909.49,"body":"want some sort of like simple"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":904.9,"endTime":909.49,"body":"answer and path for everyone,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":909.49,"endTime":913.78,"body":"but, but then we claim to like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":909.49,"endTime":913.78,"body":"value diversity. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":914.62,"endTime":915.79,"body":"yeah, that doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":915.87,"endTime":918.48,"body":"Yeah, it was just like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":915.87,"endTime":918.48,"body":"understand that someone else's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":918.48,"endTime":921.24,"body":"life choices don't attack or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":918.48,"endTime":921.24,"body":"affect my life choices."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":921.0,"endTime":924.24,"body":"Right. Right. And if,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":921.0,"endTime":924.24,"body":"if my life choice has changed,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":924.36,"endTime":927.33,"body":"that's great. It's based on my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":924.36,"endTime":927.33,"body":"life experience and my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":927.33,"endTime":930.72,"body":"situation. And we just need to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":927.33,"endTime":930.72,"body":"like, recognize that everyone,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":930.78,"endTime":936.09,"body":"give people that grace, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":930.78,"endTime":936.09,"body":"space to be themselves. I also"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":936.09,"endTime":939.63,"body":"want to add on to something you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":936.09,"endTime":939.63,"body":"said. You were talking about how"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":939.63,"endTime":942.78,"body":"you were a deacon, and now"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":939.63,"endTime":942.78,"body":"you're 22. Is that, did I get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":942.78,"endTime":943.2,"body":"that right."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":943.26,"endTime":944.01,"body":"I'm 23."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":944.0,"endTime":946.28,"body":"You're 23 with painted"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":944.0,"endTime":946.28,"body":"nails. You never saw that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":946.28,"endTime":949.97,"body":"coming. I remember, this was a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":946.28,"endTime":949.97,"body":"couple years back, I was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":949.97,"endTime":953.21,"body":"confused. I did not have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":949.97,"endTime":953.21,"body":"everything figured out. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":953.21,"endTime":956.21,"body":"was driving from Salt Lake to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":953.21,"endTime":956.21,"body":"Provo, and I was kind of having"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":956.21,"endTime":961.94,"body":"like an existential crisis. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":956.21,"endTime":961.94,"body":"I was, I was like praying and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":961.94,"endTime":964.37,"body":"talking to God the whole time."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":961.94,"endTime":964.37,"body":"And like, just like thinking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":964.37,"endTime":968.78,"body":"about where I was and where I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":964.37,"endTime":968.78,"body":"was headed. And towards the end,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":968.78,"endTime":971.96,"body":"I started thinking of like, my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":968.78,"endTime":971.96,"body":"former self, because I kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":971.96,"endTime":976.34,"body":"like, I have like a lot of care"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":971.96,"endTime":976.34,"body":"and respect and like, admiration"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":976.34,"endTime":980.51,"body":"for my child self. I think it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":976.34,"endTime":980.51,"body":"because it was really easy,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":980.51,"endTime":982.91,"body":"like, life was just so much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":980.51,"endTime":982.91,"body":"easier. But also, I was just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":982.91,"endTime":985.97,"body":"like a really pure good kid. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":982.91,"endTime":985.97,"body":"so I was like, I wish I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":985.97,"endTime":988.34,"body":"still like that. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":985.97,"endTime":988.34,"body":"remembered specifically, once"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":988.34,"endTime":990.98,"body":"when I went, I was in a way"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":988.34,"endTime":990.98,"body":"basketball game in eighth grade."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":991.49,"endTime":994.16,"body":"And I was the only person who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":991.49,"endTime":994.16,"body":"rode the bus home, because my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":994.16,"endTime":996.83,"body":"parents didn't go to that game."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":994.16,"endTime":996.83,"body":"It was really far away. So it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":996.83,"endTime":999.5,"body":"was like the bus driver and me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":996.83,"endTime":999.5,"body":"and I was sitting in the back."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":999.86,"endTime":1002.32,"body":"And it was like two hours away."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":999.86,"endTime":1002.32,"body":"And I remember praying the whole"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1002.32,"endTime":1004.84,"body":"time, just like I curled up on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1002.32,"endTime":1004.84,"body":"the little bus seat, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1004.84,"endTime":1008.68,"body":"prayed for that two hour ride"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1004.84,"endTime":1008.68,"body":"home. And I remember that for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1008.68,"endTime":1010.99,"body":"some reason on this drive from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1008.68,"endTime":1010.99,"body":"Salt Lake. And I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1010.99,"endTime":1013.6,"body":"wish I was still like that. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1010.99,"endTime":1013.6,"body":"wish I was still that little kid"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1013.75,"endTime":1015.88,"body":"who would pray the whole way"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1013.75,"endTime":1015.88,"body":"home. And I wish I was still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1015.88,"endTime":1020.05,"body":"good. And then I was like, Oh my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1015.88,"endTime":1020.05,"body":"gosh, I just prayed the whole"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1020.05,"endTime":1023.83,"body":"way home. Like I was like, from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1020.05,"endTime":1023.83,"body":"Salt Lake, I was like, I am"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1023.83,"endTime":1026.95,"body":"still that kid. And as much as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1023.83,"endTime":1026.95,"body":"my life looks different. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1026.95,"endTime":1031.33,"body":"like there are new challenges."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1026.95,"endTime":1031.33,"body":"There are elements to me that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1031.36,"endTime":1036.64,"body":"are the same. And as much as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1031.36,"endTime":1036.64,"body":"I've changed, and experiences"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1036.64,"endTime":1039.52,"body":"have changed me and shifted me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1036.64,"endTime":1039.52,"body":"and my worldview has been rocked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1039.52,"endTime":1043.3,"body":"so many times. There are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1039.52,"endTime":1043.3,"body":"elements to like my core, my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1043.3,"endTime":1048.88,"body":"spirit, that are so stable in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1043.3,"endTime":1048.88,"body":"there. And I also think it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1048.88,"endTime":1051.64,"body":"really important to recognize"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1048.88,"endTime":1051.64,"body":"that as your life is changing,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1051.64,"endTime":1054.91,"body":"and you feel like you're tossed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1051.64,"endTime":1054.91,"body":"around on this, like an umbrella"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1054.91,"endTime":1057.43,"body":"and the wind, like maybe you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1054.91,"endTime":1057.43,"body":"actually a kite in the wind and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1057.43,"endTime":1061.33,"body":"you have ground somewhere. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1057.43,"endTime":1061.33,"body":"then you have leeway, you know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1061.36,"endTime":1062.05,"body":"does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1062.08,"endTime":1064.42,"body":"Yeah. You know as you were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1062.08,"endTime":1064.42,"body":"talking, I was thinking, I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1064.42,"endTime":1067.21,"body":"have like felt really settled"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1064.42,"endTime":1067.21,"body":"for a long time. And I remember"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1067.21,"endTime":1070.42,"body":"like the moment I felt most"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1067.21,"endTime":1070.42,"body":"unsettled, and that was right,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1070.45,"endTime":1073.3,"body":"as Jordan and I were like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1070.45,"endTime":1073.3,"body":"breaking up. And I remember"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1073.3,"endTime":1076.39,"body":"sitting, and I was in the middle"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1073.3,"endTime":1076.39,"body":"of a Ph. D program, and I didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1076.39,"endTime":1079.66,"body":"like it. And I was about ready"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1076.39,"endTime":1079.66,"body":"to quit. And I wasn't sure what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1079.66,"endTime":1084.07,"body":"to do with church. And so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1079.66,"endTime":1084.07,"body":"remember sitting on the bed in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1084.07,"endTime":1086.95,"body":"the guest room at Jordan's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1084.07,"endTime":1086.95,"body":"parents' house, just like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1086.95,"endTime":1090.46,"body":"looking for jobs, and wondering"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1086.95,"endTime":1090.46,"body":"if I should go back to Arizona,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1090.76,"endTime":1092.65,"body":"and trying and figure out what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1090.76,"endTime":1092.65,"body":"to do with the church. I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1092.65,"endTime":1096.34,"body":"like, how has everything fallen"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1092.65,"endTime":1096.34,"body":"apart? Like how do I not know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1096.34,"endTime":1098.26,"body":"what to do with my career? How"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1096.34,"endTime":1098.26,"body":"do I know what to do with my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1098.26,"endTime":1100.15,"body":"love life? How do I not know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1098.26,"endTime":1100.15,"body":"what to do with my faith? Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1100.21,"endTime":1103.15,"body":"how did I get to this place?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1100.21,"endTime":1103.15,"body":"Like I've been trying so hard to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1103.15,"endTime":1106.93,"body":"be good? How did this happen?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1103.15,"endTime":1106.93,"body":"And I just like, in like a fit"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1106.93,"endTime":1110.5,"body":"of desperation, just like put on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1106.93,"endTime":1110.5,"body":"my church clothes, and drove to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1110.5,"endTime":1113.26,"body":"the temple. And I remember like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1110.5,"endTime":1113.26,"body":"as I was driving the temple, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1113.26,"endTime":1115.48,"body":"like prayed out loud. I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1113.26,"endTime":1115.48,"body":"like, \"God, just throw me a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1115.48,"endTime":1118.48,"body":"bone. Like I am trying so hard"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1115.48,"endTime":1118.48,"body":"to be good. Like, just throw me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1118.48,"endTime":1122.05,"body":"a bone.\" And during that temple"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1118.48,"endTime":1122.05,"body":"session, like I didn't figure"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1122.08,"endTime":1125.26,"body":"much out. But I just didn't, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1122.08,"endTime":1125.26,"body":"knew that the next thing I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1125.26,"endTime":1127.39,"body":"suppose to do was I had to go"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1125.26,"endTime":1127.39,"body":"home. Like I had to go to my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1127.39,"endTime":1130.81,"body":"parents house. And I had planned"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1127.39,"endTime":1130.81,"body":"on staying at Jordan's parents"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1130.81,"endTime":1133.54,"body":"house for like, the whole"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1130.81,"endTime":1133.54,"body":"weekend, like four more days."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1133.78,"endTime":1135.7,"body":"But I got home, I got back to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1133.78,"endTime":1135.7,"body":"the house. I was like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1135.7,"endTime":1138.49,"body":"leaving tomorrow morning. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1135.7,"endTime":1138.49,"body":"got in my car and I drove home"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1138.85,"endTime":1141.76,"body":"and spent a couple weeks with my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1138.85,"endTime":1141.76,"body":"parents. And you know, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1141.79,"endTime":1144.82,"body":"we get to these places where we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1141.79,"endTime":1144.82,"body":"just like feel so lost and like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1144.82,"endTime":1147.55,"body":"what what am I supposed to do?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1144.82,"endTime":1147.55,"body":"And like how did I get to this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1147.55,"endTime":1150.07,"body":"place? And sometimes we just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1147.55,"endTime":1150.07,"body":"know the next thing. Like I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1150.07,"endTime":1152.98,"body":"didn't have anything figured out"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1150.07,"endTime":1152.98,"body":"but I knew I needed to go home."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1153.26,"endTime":1154.88,"body":"Oh my gosh. It's like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1153.26,"endTime":1154.88,"body":"Frozen 2."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1156.02,"endTime":1157.01,"body":"Do the next right thing."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1157.64,"endTime":1160.01,"body":"Don't, don't bring up that"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1157.64,"endTime":1160.01,"body":"disgrace of a movie."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1160.4,"endTime":1162.02,"body":"I love that movie. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1160.4,"endTime":1162.02,"body":"thought it was great."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1162.05,"endTime":1162.92,"body":"We're getting off topic."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1162.92,"endTime":1164.6,"body":"I think that is one of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1162.92,"endTime":1164.6,"body":"the best Disney movies."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1165.29,"endTime":1168.23,"body":"You know what, Charlie?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1165.29,"endTime":1168.23,"body":"You know what? Like you can be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1168.23,"endTime":1170.21,"body":"on the path that's right for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1168.23,"endTime":1170.21,"body":"you. Good for you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1170.24,"endTime":1170.78,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1171.2,"endTime":1173.27,"body":"You know, it was the first"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1171.2,"endTime":1173.27,"body":"Disney sequel to have a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1173.27,"endTime":1174.26,"body":"theatrical release."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1175.1,"endTime":1175.7,"body":"Was it really?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1175.76,"endTime":1176.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1176.03,"endTime":1179.69,"body":"You know, way too much."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1176.03,"endTime":1179.69,"body":"But but like it's true. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1179.75,"endTime":1181.64,"body":"when you're in like a dark"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1179.75,"endTime":1181.64,"body":"space, you don't know where to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1181.64,"endTime":1184.82,"body":"turn like you don't have to like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1181.64,"endTime":1184.82,"body":"choose five years out. Just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1184.82,"endTime":1187.49,"body":"choose what you're going to do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1184.82,"endTime":1187.49,"body":"like now or tomorrow. make the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1187.49,"endTime":1190.7,"body":"best decision that you can with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1187.49,"endTime":1190.7,"body":"the knowledge you have. And then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1190.7,"endTime":1194.09,"body":"if that knowledge changes, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1190.7,"endTime":1194.09,"body":"of course you should reassess."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1194.36,"endTime":1197.84,"body":"Recently I've been talking"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1194.36,"endTime":1197.84,"body":"with my therapist and therapy is"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1197.84,"endTime":1200.57,"body":"great. I recommend it for"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1197.84,"endTime":1200.57,"body":"everyone. But just about How I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1200.57,"endTime":1202.58,"body":"met this turning point in my"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1200.57,"endTime":1202.58,"body":"life where I'm trying to figure"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1202.58,"endTime":1205.7,"body":"out my career now, like, my"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1202.58,"endTime":1205.7,"body":"bachelor's is ending. I'm still"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1205.7,"endTime":1208.34,"body":"making a decision about like,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1205.7,"endTime":1208.34,"body":"which masters I should do."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1208.58,"endTime":1212.75,"body":"There's just a lot of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1208.58,"endTime":1212.75,"body":"career decisions I'm making. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1212.93,"endTime":1216.77,"body":"I just randomly just said, you"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1212.93,"endTime":1216.77,"body":"know, I'm so grateful that I'm"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1216.77,"endTime":1220.79,"body":"queer. Because of my experience"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1216.77,"endTime":1220.79,"body":"of being queer and realizing"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1220.79,"endTime":1223.43,"body":"that, you know, I don't need to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1220.79,"endTime":1223.43,"body":"have my entire life figured out"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1223.43,"endTime":1225.41,"body":"with like, the church and"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1223.43,"endTime":1225.41,"body":"relationships and everything"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1225.41,"endTime":1228.2,"body":"right now. Like, I don't need to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1225.41,"endTime":1228.2,"body":"have my career figured out right"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1228.2,"endTime":1231.62,"body":"now. Like, well, that's like, I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1228.2,"endTime":1231.62,"body":"never thought I'd be saying how"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1231.62,"endTime":1234.47,"body":"grateful I am to be queer,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1231.62,"endTime":1234.47,"body":"because that helped me in other"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1234.47,"endTime":1237.71,"body":"aspects of my life. I mean, once"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1234.47,"endTime":1237.71,"body":"again, it was just so much"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1237.71,"endTime":1240.35,"body":"pressure, relieving the fact"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1237.71,"endTime":1240.35,"body":"that, you know, one day I could"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1240.35,"endTime":1242.48,"body":"say, you know, I think I'm going"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1240.35,"endTime":1242.48,"body":"to choose this with my career,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1242.48,"endTime":1244.01,"body":"and then be like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1242.48,"endTime":1244.01,"body":"what, nevermind, I changed my"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1244.01,"endTime":1246.62,"body":"mind. And I think that that's"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1244.01,"endTime":1246.62,"body":"something that I think that"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1246.62,"endTime":1249.95,"body":"people just don't hear enough,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1246.62,"endTime":1249.95,"body":"especially with this decision,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1250.76,"endTime":1253.88,"body":"that it's okay for you to change"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1250.76,"endTime":1253.88,"body":"your mind. It's okay for you to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1253.88,"endTime":1256.01,"body":"be unsure about what you want."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1256.07,"endTime":1257.33,"body":"Yeah. Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1256.07,"endTime":1257.33,"body":"sharing that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1257.84,"endTime":1259.82,"body":"Yeah. Joey, what are some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1257.84,"endTime":1259.82,"body":"of the ways you've changed your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1259.82,"endTime":1260.18,"body":"mind?"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1263.75,"endTime":1267.02,"body":"See, see, you know, to the"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1263.75,"endTime":1267.02,"body":"listeners listening Ben asked"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1267.02,"endTime":1270.02,"body":"that because Ben's been around a"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1267.02,"endTime":1270.02,"body":"long time. And he knows how"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1270.02,"endTime":1272.12,"body":"often I changed my mind about"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1270.02,"endTime":1272.12,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1272.54,"endTime":1274.4,"body":"So you want me to just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1272.54,"endTime":1274.4,"body":"answer my question?"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1274.43,"endTime":1278.24,"body":"No, no, no, it's fine. I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1274.43,"endTime":1278.24,"body":"would, I would say sometimes I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1278.24,"endTime":1280.58,"body":"changed my mind so often that"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1278.24,"endTime":1280.58,"body":"like, you don't even know how"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1280.58,"endTime":1281.51,"body":"quickly I changed it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1282.5,"endTime":1284.3,"body":"Yeah. Well, you told me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1282.5,"endTime":1284.3,"body":"something that you changed your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1284.3,"endTime":1286.91,"body":"mind on and I was like, so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1284.3,"endTime":1286.91,"body":"shocked. I didn't even know how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1286.91,"endTime":1287.51,"body":"to respond."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1287.78,"endTime":1290.0,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. Well,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1290.03,"endTime":1291.08,"body":"I was like, Wait, what?"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1291.75,"endTime":1295.71,"body":"Yeah, well, I think so, I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1291.75,"endTime":1295.71,"body":"mean, for example, like I, would"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1295.74,"endTime":1298.14,"body":"sort of, and this is the first"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1295.74,"endTime":1298.14,"body":"example, I guess it was just"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1298.14,"endTime":1303.39,"body":"like, the label that I use,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1298.14,"endTime":1303.39,"body":"like, I first like hated labels."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1303.39,"endTime":1306.06,"body":"I thought, like, they put me in"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1303.39,"endTime":1306.06,"body":"a box, right? And then I'm just"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1306.06,"endTime":1308.82,"body":"like, no, like, I want to use"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1306.06,"endTime":1308.82,"body":"struggle with same sex"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1308.82,"endTime":1310.86,"body":"attraction. Because at that"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1308.82,"endTime":1310.86,"body":"point in my life, it was the"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1310.86,"endTime":1314.04,"body":"greatest struggle that I was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1310.86,"endTime":1314.04,"body":"going through. And so that's why"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1314.04,"endTime":1317.13,"body":"when we met Ben, that's what I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1314.04,"endTime":1317.13,"body":"was going through. And that's"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1317.13,"endTime":1320.13,"body":"why I didn't want associate with"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1317.13,"endTime":1320.13,"body":"anyone that used LGBTQ labels,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1320.13,"endTime":1323.82,"body":"because to me, it represented"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1320.13,"endTime":1323.82,"body":"something that I wasn't. Right?"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1323.82,"endTime":1327.09,"body":"I remember a professor. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1323.82,"endTime":1327.09,"body":"even like the term coming out at"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1327.09,"endTime":1329.43,"body":"that point. I'm like, No, I'm"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1327.09,"endTime":1329.43,"body":"inviting you into my life. Like"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1329.43,"endTime":1330.09,"body":"I rejected..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1330.09,"endTime":1330.69,"body":"That's a great phrase."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1330.69,"endTime":1333.0,"body":"Yeah, it is a great"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1330.69,"endTime":1333.0,"body":"phrase, but I was just rejecting"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1333.03,"endTime":1335.85,"body":"everything that I thought I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1333.03,"endTime":1335.85,"body":"wasn't. I was still trying to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1335.85,"endTime":1339.87,"body":"control how people viewed me."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1335.85,"endTime":1339.87,"body":"And he was like, I respect the"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1339.87,"endTime":1343.2,"body":"LGBTQ community. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1339.87,"endTime":1343.2,"body":"\"Oh, I'm not part of that, that"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1343.2,"endTime":1344.22,"body":"crazy community.\""},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.21,"endTime":1347.27,"body":"Yes, exactly. And, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.21,"endTime":1347.27,"body":"I think that was fine because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1344.88,"endTime":1345.96,"body":"I'm SSA."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1347.27,"endTime":1350.57,"body":"that's where I was at. Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1347.27,"endTime":1350.57,"body":"that doesn't mean that I was,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1350.69,"endTime":1354.5,"body":"you know, bad. That's just where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1350.69,"endTime":1354.5,"body":"I was at. And then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.5,"endTime":1358.73,"body":"how crazy it was five months"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.5,"endTime":1358.73,"body":"later, I was at, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.73,"endTime":1362.0,"body":"pride parade in Salt Lake City,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.73,"endTime":1362.0,"body":"like screaming, \"I'm gay!\" You"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1362.0,"endTime":1366.41,"body":"know? And then all of a sudden,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1362.0,"endTime":1366.41,"body":"six months later, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1366.47,"endTime":1369.95,"body":"you know, not talking to anybody"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1366.47,"endTime":1369.95,"body":"about it. And then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1369.95,"endTime":1372.5,"body":"here we are, like, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1369.95,"endTime":1372.5,"body":"what it was, like two years ago?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1372.83,"endTime":1375.83,"body":"And now I feel like queer is the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1372.83,"endTime":1375.83,"body":"label I use. And you know, what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1375.83,"endTime":1379.46,"body":"s crazy is that probably, in y"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1375.83,"endTime":1379.46,"body":"u know, five years from now, I'"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1379.23,"endTime":1467.55,"body":"Joey I remember I was the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1379.23,"endTime":1467.55,"body":"one that told you, because I,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1379.46,"endTime":1382.28,"body":"l might have a different labe"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1379.46,"endTime":1382.28,"body":". And I think, I think that's t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1382.28,"endTime":1385.97,"body":"e thing I was missing in all the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1382.28,"endTime":1385.97,"body":"e stories was just permission f"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1385.97,"endTime":1390.47,"body":"r me to, you know, change my lab"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1385.97,"endTime":1390.47,"body":"l to, that it's okay for me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1390.47,"endTime":1392.72,"body":"to figure this out. Because i"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1390.47,"endTime":1392.72,"body":"'s all about, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1392.72,"endTime":1396.47,"body":"is sin. This is like, eter"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1392.72,"endTime":1396.47,"body":"al consequences that I just f"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1396.47,"endTime":1400.19,"body":"lt like, I needed to figure"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1396.47,"endTime":1400.19,"body":"ut exactly what I believed, exa"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1400.19,"endTime":1403.76,"body":"tly what it was right now, r"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1400.19,"endTime":1403.76,"body":"ght here before I jeopar"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1403.76,"endTime":1407.75,"body":"ize anything like it's real or i"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1403.76,"endTime":1407.75,"body":"it isn't. And so, I mean, w"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1407.75,"endTime":1413.03,"body":"'re coming up, you know, next w"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1407.75,"endTime":1413.03,"body":"ek, on a year from, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1413.03,"endTime":1418.73,"body":"the LGBTQ policy honor"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1413.03,"endTime":1418.73,"body":"code situation. And like, tha"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1418.73,"endTime":1422.57,"body":"was really, really hard for me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1418.73,"endTime":1422.57,"body":"For me, I had come to terms"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1422.66,"endTime":1426.14,"body":"that already that I wasn't goi"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1422.66,"endTime":1426.14,"body":"g to date, just because I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1426.14,"endTime":1428.69,"body":"now, I go back and forth so qu"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1426.14,"endTime":1428.69,"body":"ckly between if I should date"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1428.69,"endTime":1432.77,"body":"uys, or if I should date gir"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1428.69,"endTime":1432.77,"body":"s, or if I, I just, I just hav"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1432.77,"endTime":1435.56,"body":"n't been dating for a long t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1432.77,"endTime":1435.56,"body":"me. And I don't think I'll s"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1435.56,"endTime":1439.19,"body":"art soon, so that the polic"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1435.56,"endTime":1439.19,"body":"change didn't really change"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1439.22,"endTime":1443.57,"body":"e. But that change of seeing pe"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1439.22,"endTime":1443.57,"body":"ple's reaction to it. The initi"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1444.11,"endTime":1447.26,"body":"l change made me feel so welcom"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1444.11,"endTime":1447.26,"body":", and that I belonged and tha"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1447.68,"endTime":1452.42,"body":"God was aware of me. And so t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1447.68,"endTime":1452.42,"body":"at reversal happened. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1452.42,"endTime":1454.85,"body":"ean, Ben, and like, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1452.42,"endTime":1454.85,"body":"if you remember, I was like s"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1454.85,"endTime":1458.36,"body":"tting in your office in the ho"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1454.85,"endTime":1458.36,"body":"or code on this chair, just cry"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1458.36,"endTime":1462.08,"body":"ng and being like, you know what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1458.36,"endTime":1462.08,"body":"this is like, why some of my fa"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1467.58,"endTime":1470.37,"body":"because you had just decided to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1467.58,"endTime":1470.37,"body":"come over anyway to my office."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1470.64,"endTime":1472.2,"body":"And I thought you already knew"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1470.64,"endTime":1472.2,"body":"because it's been like an hour"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1472.2,"endTime":1475.02,"body":"since the letter came out. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1472.2,"endTime":1475.02,"body":"was the one that told you what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1475.02,"endTime":1475.65,"body":"had happened."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1476.13,"endTime":1479.01,"body":"Yeah, I didn't know. I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1476.13,"endTime":1479.01,"body":"thought you're just inviting me"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1479.01,"endTime":1479.58,"body":"to lunch."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1480.45,"endTime":1482.37,"body":"I thought you'd be having a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1480.45,"endTime":1482.37,"body":"terrible day. I didn't want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1482.37,"endTime":1482.85,"body":"be alone."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1483.2,"endTime":1486.14,"body":"I'm really grateful you're"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1483.2,"endTime":1486.14,"body":"the one who told me. But that"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1486.14,"endTime":1490.19,"body":"was really, really hard for me."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1486.14,"endTime":1490.19,"body":"Because, you know, here I'm at"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1490.22,"endTime":1494.09,"body":"BYU and I feel like this is"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1490.22,"endTime":1494.09,"body":"where I'm supposed to be. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1494.09,"endTime":1497.48,"body":"these things just keep on"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1494.09,"endTime":1497.48,"body":"happening. I'm like, God if"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1497.48,"endTime":1500.6,"body":"you're really aware of me why do"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1497.48,"endTime":1500.6,"body":"you keep letting these things"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1500.6,"endTime":1505.7,"body":"happen? And you know, at that"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1500.6,"endTime":1505.7,"body":"time, I was like, \"No, I'm out"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1505.7,"endTime":1510.38,"body":"of here. I can't be here"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1505.7,"endTime":1510.38,"body":"anymore.\" And I wasn't sure if"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1510.38,"endTime":1514.43,"body":"it was the church, or at BYU or"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1510.38,"endTime":1514.43,"body":"just being like, on earth in"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1514.43,"endTime":1518.09,"body":"general, like, you know, \"God"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1514.43,"endTime":1518.09,"body":"just take me\" like I, I was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1518.09,"endTime":1522.95,"body":"having a really rough time. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1518.09,"endTime":1522.95,"body":"you know, here we are, a year"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1522.95,"endTime":1528.53,"body":"later, I'm still here still at"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1522.95,"endTime":1528.53,"body":"BYU. And as of right now, who"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1528.53,"endTime":1531.56,"body":"knows, in six months from now,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1528.53,"endTime":1531.56,"body":"I'll be, I'm about to start a"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1531.56,"endTime":1534.89,"body":"BYU master's program. You know,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1531.56,"endTime":1534.89,"body":"and during that time, it was"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1534.89,"endTime":1539.84,"body":"just so hard. And I was so sure"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1534.89,"endTime":1539.84,"body":"that I'm like, I need to get out"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1539.84,"endTime":1542.84,"body":"of here that this is not right"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1539.84,"endTime":1542.84,"body":"for me. But once again, I just"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1542.84,"endTime":1545.93,"body":"gave myself time that I didn't"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1542.84,"endTime":1545.93,"body":"need to have it figured out"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1545.93,"endTime":1550.4,"body":"right then in that moment. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1545.93,"endTime":1550.4,"body":"I'm so grateful I did, that even"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1550.4,"endTime":1553.55,"body":"though it was still so hard that"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1550.4,"endTime":1553.55,"body":"I didn't feel like the pressure"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1553.55,"endTime":1556.94,"body":"that I also needed to make a"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1553.55,"endTime":1556.94,"body":"decision right then either. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1556.94,"endTime":1558.95,"body":"I would say that that's one of"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1556.94,"endTime":1558.95,"body":"the things that really saved me"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1558.95,"endTime":1562.85,"body":"in that time. That I knew that I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1558.95,"endTime":1562.85,"body":"could make a decision at any"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1562.85,"endTime":1564.56,"body":"point. Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1564.68,"endTime":1565.76,"body":"Yeah, that's beautiful"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1564.68,"endTime":1565.76,"body":"Joey."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1566.56,"endTime":1568.87,"body":"Thank you for sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1566.56,"endTime":1568.87,"body":"that. I want to jump on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1568.87,"endTime":1572.44,"body":"something you said a little bit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1568.87,"endTime":1572.44,"body":"ago, you said something about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1572.44,"endTime":1576.22,"body":"like, wanting to control your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1572.44,"endTime":1576.22,"body":"narrative or like the way other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1576.22,"endTime":1580.18,"body":"people viewed you. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1576.22,"endTime":1580.18,"body":"remember, I remember feeling the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1580.18,"endTime":1584.26,"body":"same thing as like, if somebody"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1580.18,"endTime":1584.26,"body":"sees me with a gay person or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1584.26,"endTime":1586.75,"body":"being gay, or it's like, as soon"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1584.26,"endTime":1586.75,"body":"as you come out, then you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1586.75,"endTime":1589.78,"body":"out. And everyone knows, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1586.75,"endTime":1589.78,"body":"like, you can't change that. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1589.78,"endTime":1592.93,"body":"was so worried about that. I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1589.78,"endTime":1592.93,"body":"like, \"What if it's wrong for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1592.93,"endTime":1595.96,"body":"me? What if people don't like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1592.93,"endTime":1595.96,"body":"it?\" You never really know like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1595.96,"endTime":1600.28,"body":"how someone's gonna react. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1595.96,"endTime":1600.28,"body":"that reminded me of a quote from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1600.28,"endTime":1602.41,"body":"\"Braving the Wilderness\" by"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1600.28,"endTime":1602.41,"body":"Brene' Brown, and I just pulled"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1602.41,"endTime":1605.44,"body":"it up. I'll read it. It says,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1602.41,"endTime":1605.44,"body":"\"True belonging is the spiritual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1605.44,"endTime":1608.74,"body":"practice of believing in and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1605.44,"endTime":1608.74,"body":"belonging to yourself so deeply,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1609.01,"endTime":1611.44,"body":"that you can share your most"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1609.01,"endTime":1611.44,"body":"authentic self with the world"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1611.68,"endTime":1614.32,"body":"and find sacredness in both"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1611.68,"endTime":1614.32,"body":"being a part of something and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1614.32,"endTime":1616.87,"body":"standing alone in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1614.32,"endTime":1616.87,"body":"wilderness.\" And I think in a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1616.87,"endTime":1620.29,"body":"lot of ways, as an LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1616.87,"endTime":1620.29,"body":"Latter-day Saint, we have to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1620.29,"endTime":1624.25,"body":"like expose ourselves, and put"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1620.29,"endTime":1624.25,"body":"ourselves out there in ways that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1624.25,"endTime":1628.72,"body":"we're not really sure how it's,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1624.25,"endTime":1628.72,"body":"it's almost like, I hate like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1628.75,"endTime":1633.94,"body":"war and war analogies, but like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1628.75,"endTime":1633.94,"body":"so I'll use paintball. It's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1633.94,"endTime":1637.36,"body":"almost like playing paintball"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1633.94,"endTime":1637.36,"body":"and like, or capture the flag,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1637.39,"endTime":1640.06,"body":"Oh, my gosh, when you have to,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1637.39,"endTime":1640.06,"body":"like, go from your hiding place"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1640.06,"endTime":1642.61,"body":"to like, run and grab the flag,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1640.06,"endTime":1642.61,"body":"and you could be caught. You"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1642.61,"endTime":1646.24,"body":"could, you know, there could be,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1642.61,"endTime":1646.24,"body":"it's scary. But like, if you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1646.24,"endTime":1649.72,"body":"truly believe in yourself, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1646.24,"endTime":1649.72,"body":"like real authenticity, is being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1649.72,"endTime":1653.68,"body":"able to be in that space of, of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1649.72,"endTime":1653.68,"body":"like belonging to a bigger"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1653.68,"endTime":1658.0,"body":"group. In this case, it'd be the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1653.68,"endTime":1658.0,"body":"LGBTQ community, or a religious"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1658.0,"endTime":1662.62,"body":"community, or BYU even maybe,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1658.0,"endTime":1662.62,"body":"and being able to belong to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1662.62,"endTime":1665.89,"body":"that, while at the same time"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1662.62,"endTime":1665.89,"body":"belong to yourself so deeply,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1666.04,"endTime":1668.77,"body":"that when you're, like, moved,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1666.04,"endTime":1668.77,"body":"and people try to uproot you,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1668.89,"endTime":1672.76,"body":"you don't like, you're confident"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1668.89,"endTime":1672.76,"body":"in who you are. And belonging"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1672.76,"endTime":1675.82,"body":"isn't like a perfect fit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1672.76,"endTime":1675.82,"body":"somewhere. It's a perfect fit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1675.82,"endTime":1680.02,"body":"with yourself. And I think it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1675.82,"endTime":1680.02,"body":"so healthy to like, assess where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1680.02,"endTime":1683.11,"body":"that fit is. And when there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1680.02,"endTime":1683.11,"body":"things like this that happened,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1683.11,"endTime":1686.23,"body":"this policy change that, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1683.11,"endTime":1686.23,"body":"rocked your world and sort of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1686.23,"endTime":1689.86,"body":"rocked my world, and I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1686.23,"endTime":1689.86,"body":"really rocked Ben's world. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1689.86,"endTime":1693.43,"body":"and some of that we just can't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1689.86,"endTime":1693.43,"body":"and, and or won't talk about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1693.43,"endTime":1698.26,"body":"that. We won't get into it, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1693.43,"endTime":1698.26,"body":"but like, it shifts you and if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1698.26,"endTime":1701.14,"body":"you allow yourself to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1698.26,"endTime":1701.14,"body":"flexible with that, then it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1701.14,"endTime":1703.63,"body":"won't knock you over. And it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1701.14,"endTime":1703.63,"body":"sounds like that's how you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1703.63,"endTime":1706.06,"body":"handled it. And I'm proud of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1703.63,"endTime":1706.06,"body":"way you handled that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1706.6,"endTime":1708.52,"body":"What I'm hearing you guys"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1706.6,"endTime":1708.52,"body":"say is a lot of the pressure,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1708.52,"endTime":1710.77,"body":"like to have everything figured"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1708.52,"endTime":1710.77,"body":"out comes from external forces."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1710.83,"endTime":1711.43,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1711.7,"endTime":1714.67,"body":"And if if we could create a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1711.7,"endTime":1714.67,"body":"space where it's okay for people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1714.67,"endTime":1716.92,"body":"to try and figure things out,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1714.67,"endTime":1716.92,"body":"and where they can change their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1716.92,"endTime":1718.96,"body":"mind, then people are gonna be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1716.92,"endTime":1718.96,"body":"healthier."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1719.14,"endTime":1719.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1719.87,"endTime":1723.05,"body":"Oh, I definitely agree."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1719.87,"endTime":1723.05,"body":"And I think that that's why this"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1723.05,"endTime":1726.77,"body":"is like, one of the only topics"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1723.05,"endTime":1726.77,"body":"I feel comfortable talking about"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1726.77,"endTime":1730.94,"body":"on the podcast is because I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1726.77,"endTime":1730.94,"body":"think it's so easy for other"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1730.94,"endTime":1733.52,"body":"people's stories to be"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1730.94,"endTime":1733.52,"body":"weaponized, like, even like,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1733.55,"endTime":1736.16,"body":"normally, I don't do recordings"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1733.55,"endTime":1736.16,"body":"like this. I just do like"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1736.19,"endTime":1740.54,"body":"presentations in classrooms or"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1736.19,"endTime":1740.54,"body":"whatever. And there's always"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1740.54,"endTime":1744.38,"body":"someone who comes up after me,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1740.54,"endTime":1744.38,"body":"afterwards to me, and they, you"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1744.38,"endTime":1746.69,"body":"know, they thank me, and they're"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1744.38,"endTime":1746.69,"body":"just like, \"Oh, if only my"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1746.69,"endTime":1749.75,"body":"cousin could hear this\" or"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1746.69,"endTime":1749.75,"body":"something. And I think that's,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1749.78,"endTime":1753.98,"body":"that's really difficult because,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1749.78,"endTime":1753.98,"body":"number one, I think they only"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1753.98,"endTime":1757.49,"body":"heard just a small portion of my"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1753.98,"endTime":1757.49,"body":"story. And I, as I always say,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1757.49,"endTime":1761.93,"body":"I'm figuring things out. And so"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1757.49,"endTime":1761.93,"body":"I think, once again, they are"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1761.93,"endTime":1764.72,"body":"looking at me how I used to view"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1761.93,"endTime":1764.72,"body":"everyone else is that they all"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1764.72,"endTime":1768.56,"body":"have it figured out. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1764.72,"endTime":1768.56,"body":"the thing is, no one has it"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1768.56,"endTime":1771.92,"body":"figured out. You know, like Ben"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1768.56,"endTime":1771.92,"body":"and Charlie just have like books"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1771.92,"endTime":1774.5,"body":"that just came out and I like,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1771.92,"endTime":1774.5,"body":"well, I can't speak as well for"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1774.5,"endTime":1776.99,"body":"Charlie, because I don't know"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1774.5,"endTime":1776.99,"body":"you as well. But I would say Ben"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1776.99,"endTime":1778.91,"body":"doesn't have everything figured"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1776.99,"endTime":1778.91,"body":"out, you know?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1778.94,"endTime":1779.57,"body":"How dare you?"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1780.26,"endTime":1783.95,"body":"And I, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1780.26,"endTime":1783.95,"body":"that that's I was just always"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1783.98,"endTime":1787.52,"body":"missing that permission from"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1783.98,"endTime":1787.52,"body":"someone that it's okay if I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1787.52,"endTime":1790.64,"body":"don't have everything figured"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1787.52,"endTime":1790.64,"body":"out and then it's okay if I take"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1790.64,"endTime":1794.57,"body":"years to figure it out. It's"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1790.64,"endTime":1794.57,"body":"okay if I actually never figure"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1794.57,"endTime":1798.26,"body":"it out if I, if I go back and"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1794.57,"endTime":1798.26,"body":"forth on things. And I think"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1798.26,"endTime":1801.56,"body":"that's like where as you, you"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1798.26,"endTime":1801.56,"body":"mentioned, you know, Charlie,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1801.89,"endTime":1806.33,"body":"it's in those moments where you"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1801.89,"endTime":1806.33,"body":"recognize that you don't have it"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1806.33,"endTime":1808.91,"body":"figured out and you're"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1806.33,"endTime":1808.91,"body":"struggling. I think that's when"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1808.91,"endTime":1812.18,"body":"you're the most vulnerable"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1808.91,"endTime":1812.18,"body":"because you just have to accept"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1812.18,"endTime":1816.65,"body":"yourself where you're at. And"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1812.18,"endTime":1816.65,"body":"hope that other people accept"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1816.65,"endTime":1818.09,"body":"you that that's where you're at"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1816.65,"endTime":1818.09,"body":"too."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1818.45,"endTime":1820.67,"body":"Yeah, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1818.45,"endTime":1820.67,"body":"really healthy to be inspired by"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.67,"endTime":1824.18,"body":"someone or their story, or use"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.67,"endTime":1824.18,"body":"them as a point of reference to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1824.18,"endTime":1826.97,"body":"help you understand yourself."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1824.18,"endTime":1826.97,"body":"But if you're trying to turn"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1826.97,"endTime":1830.12,"body":"yourself into that, and force"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1826.97,"endTime":1830.12,"body":"yourself in some, like in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1830.12,"endTime":1834.38,"body":"somebody else's hallway, you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1830.12,"endTime":1834.38,"body":"not gonna fit and it's gonna"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1834.38,"endTime":1835.43,"body":"make it a lot harder."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1835.81,"endTime":1837.7,"body":"I think the only thing I"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1835.81,"endTime":1837.7,"body":"would say is that, like, if"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1837.7,"endTime":1842.11,"body":"someone's like listening to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1837.7,"endTime":1842.11,"body":"this, I would just hope that you"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1842.11,"endTime":1845.32,"body":"feel permission in whatever"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1842.11,"endTime":1845.32,"body":"aspect of your life that it's"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1845.32,"endTime":1847.9,"body":"okay, if you don't have it"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1845.32,"endTime":1847.9,"body":"figured out right now. This is"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1847.9,"endTime":1851.2,"body":"me giving you that permission."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1847.9,"endTime":1851.2,"body":"And then, if there's anything"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1851.2,"endTime":1854.14,"body":"that you heard in this podcast"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1851.2,"endTime":1854.14,"body":"that you feel, like really"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1854.14,"endTime":1857.05,"body":"touched you, or helped you,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1854.14,"endTime":1857.05,"body":"instead of like, reaching out to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1857.05,"endTime":1860.47,"body":"like, well, if it's a critique"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1857.05,"endTime":1860.47,"body":"for the podcast, you can totally"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1860.47,"endTime":1863.8,"body":"reach out to Ben and Charlie,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1860.47,"endTime":1863.8,"body":"they love that. But you know,"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1864.91,"endTime":1867.49,"body":"instead of like reaching out to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1864.91,"endTime":1867.49,"body":"me or something, share it with"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1867.49,"endTime":1870.97,"body":"someone that you care about, and"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1867.49,"endTime":1870.97,"body":"tell them why it meant something"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1870.97,"endTime":1874.24,"body":"to you. If you feel like you can"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1870.97,"endTime":1874.24,"body":"be that, you know, vulnerable."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1874.63,"endTime":1877.09,"body":"And then if you don't, then"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1874.63,"endTime":1877.09,"body":"share it with yourself and"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1877.09,"endTime":1879.61,"body":"journal about it. Because that's"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1877.09,"endTime":1879.61,"body":"one thing that has been really"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1879.61,"endTime":1881.86,"body":"helpful for me is looking back"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1879.61,"endTime":1881.86,"body":"on my journals and looking back"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1881.86,"endTime":1885.79,"body":"at the things that touched me"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1881.86,"endTime":1885.79,"body":"and why. It's been helpful, to"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1885.79,"endTime":1888.58,"body":"not necessarily, hasn't helped"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1885.79,"endTime":1888.58,"body":"me figure things out. But it's"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1888.58,"endTime":1891.7,"body":"helped me feel more confident in"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1888.58,"endTime":1891.7,"body":"not having things figured out."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1892.71,"endTime":1895.89,"body":"You know, Joey, you're 23."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1892.71,"endTime":1895.89,"body":"You're just a kid. I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1895.89,"endTime":1900.51,"body":"thinking about when I was 23. If"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1895.89,"endTime":1900.51,"body":"I kept living in the paradigm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1900.51,"endTime":1905.22,"body":"and the constraints I had, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1900.51,"endTime":1905.22,"body":"that I viewed on my life at 23 I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1905.22,"endTime":1909.03,"body":"would be a disaster right now."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1905.22,"endTime":1909.03,"body":"And even like 10 years ago, at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1909.03,"endTime":1912.42,"body":"27, like if I continued living"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1909.03,"endTime":1912.42,"body":"in the paradigm I had then with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1912.42,"endTime":1915.57,"body":"like, the life constraints, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1912.42,"endTime":1915.57,"body":"thought were like on me, I would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1915.57,"endTime":1920.28,"body":"be such a disaster today. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1915.57,"endTime":1920.28,"body":"feel like, I like, it's not like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1920.28,"endTime":1922.62,"body":"I've ended up anywhere, but like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1920.28,"endTime":1922.62,"body":"where I am on my journey is the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1922.62,"endTime":1926.31,"body":"place that I really, really love"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1922.62,"endTime":1926.31,"body":"and appreciate. I guess until we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1926.31,"endTime":1928.2,"body":"had this conversation I didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1926.31,"endTime":1928.2,"body":"realize like how much I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1928.2,"endTime":1930.51,"body":"changed my mind throughout all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1928.2,"endTime":1930.51,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1930.57,"endTime":1932.43,"body":"You've changed your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1930.57,"endTime":1932.43,"body":"mind a lot, Ben."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1932.46,"endTime":1934.29,"body":"Like even in the past few"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1932.46,"endTime":1934.29,"body":"years."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1934.44,"endTime":1935.04,"body":"That's true."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1935.1,"endTime":1938.73,"body":"So have I. So have I."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1935.1,"endTime":1938.73,"body":"Like if I look at myself five"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1938.73,"endTime":1941.49,"body":"years ago, I'm like, Who was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1938.73,"endTime":1941.49,"body":"that? Even though it was still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1941.49,"endTime":1943.77,"body":"me. I was like, dang, I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1941.49,"endTime":1943.77,"body":"putting a ton of pressure on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1943.77,"endTime":1946.5,"body":"myself, and trying to live in a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1943.77,"endTime":1946.5,"body":"space that I was never meant to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1946.5,"endTime":1946.95,"body":"live in."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1947.04,"endTime":1949.92,"body":"Yeah. So let's do this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1947.04,"endTime":1949.92,"body":"again in 10 years and see where"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1949.92,"endTime":1950.19,"body":"we are."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1951.24,"endTime":1951.45,"body":"Check in."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1951.29,"endTime":1956.42,"body":"Great. Well hopefully in"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1951.29,"endTime":1956.42,"body":"10 years, the podcast is still"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1956.42,"endTime":1959.51,"body":"up, you know. Hopefully I don"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1956.42,"endTime":1959.51,"body":"t like say six months from no"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1959.51,"endTime":1960.59,"body":"\"Hey, guys, take it down."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1961.49,"endTime":1963.71,"body":"Well, Joey, thank you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1961.49,"endTime":1963.71,"body":"so much for coming and sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1963.8,"endTime":1967.28,"body":"yourself and some of your story"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1963.8,"endTime":1967.28,"body":"and we're gonna hold you to it."},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1968.84,"endTime":1974.3,"body":"What? What kind of ending"},{"speaker":"Joey","startTime":1968.84,"endTime":1974.3,"body":"is that?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1974.3,"endTime":1976.309,"body":"That was a joke. That"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1974.3,"endTime":1976.309,"body":"was a joke. No, honestly, thank"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1976.347,"endTime":1977.75,"body":"you for sharing and being vulnerable."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1979.309,"endTime":1981.649,"body":"Thank you for joining us"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1979.309,"endTime":1981.649,"body":"today. If you've enjoyed this or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1981.649,"endTime":1984.319,"body":"other episodes, please consider"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1981.649,"endTime":1984.319,"body":"leaving a review. Follow us on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1984.319,"endTime":1987.259,"body":"Instagram or Facebook @q"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1984.319,"endTime":1987.259,"body":"estionsfromthecloset, or shar"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1987.259,"endTime":1989.929,"body":"ng this podcast with some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1987.259,"endTime":1989.929,"body":"ne you love. And as always, plea"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1989.929,"endTime":1992.089,"body":"e remember that we do not repr"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1989.929,"endTime":1992.089,"body":"sent the Church of Jesus Chri"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1992.089,"endTime":1994.789,"body":"t of Latter-day Saints, or Brig"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1992.089,"endTime":1994.789,"body":"am Young University. We are not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1994.789,"endTime":1997.009,"body":"rying to be prescriptive or tell"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1994.789,"endTime":1997.009,"body":"anyone what to think or what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1997.009,"endTime":1997.549,"body":"to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1998.089,"endTime":1999.949,"body":"You heard three"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1998.089,"endTime":1999.949,"body":"perspectives and there are many,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1999.979,"endTime":2002.769,"body":"many more. We encourage you to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1999.979,"endTime":2002.769,"body":"listen to other voices and hear"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2002.769,"endTime":2005.559,"body":"a wide variety of experiences."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2002.769,"endTime":2005.559,"body":"If you would like to submit a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2005.559,"endTime":2008.379,"body":"question or share a comment"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2005.559,"endTime":2008.379,"body":"about today's episode, you can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2008.379,"endTime":2011.859,"body":"email us at questionsfromthecl"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2008.379,"endTime":2011.859,"body":"set@gmail.com. Until next ti"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2011.859,"endTime":2012.189,"body":"e,"}]}