{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1.92,"endTime":4.26,"body":"Welcome to questions from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1.92,"endTime":4.26,"body":"the closet. I'm Ben Schilaty."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4.0,"endTime":7.09,"body":"And I'm Charlie Bird."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4.0,"endTime":7.09,"body":"Each episode, we discuss a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":7.09,"endTime":10.0,"body":"question that we commonly get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":7.09,"endTime":10.0,"body":"asked as LGBTQ plus Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":10.0,"endTime":10.51,"body":"Saints."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":10.6,"endTime":12.61,"body":"We are not trying to answer"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":10.6,"endTime":12.61,"body":"this question or come to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":12.61,"endTime":15.04,"body":"consensus, but simply sharing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":12.61,"endTime":15.04,"body":"our perspectives. Today's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":15.04,"endTime":18.49,"body":"question is, what if loved ones"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":15.04,"endTime":18.49,"body":"are disappointed in my choices?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":18.76,"endTime":20.8,"body":"Ben and I are not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":18.76,"endTime":20.8,"body":"terribly diverse, and we share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":20.8,"endTime":23.41,"body":"many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":20.8,"endTime":23.41,"body":"experiences. For example, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":23.41,"endTime":24.61,"body":"both like meeting new people."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":24.82,"endTime":26.8,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":24.82,"endTime":26.8,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":26.8,"endTime":29.62,"body":"example, people WANT to meet"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":26.8,"endTime":29.62,"body":"Charlie, but they GET to meet"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":29.62,"endTime":29.92,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":32.35,"endTime":33.04,"body":"Go ahead."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":34.06,"endTime":36.1,"body":"Well, people will like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":34.06,"endTime":36.1,"body":"email the questions in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":36.1,"endTime":38.86,"body":"closet, like, Hey, can I meet"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":36.1,"endTime":38.86,"body":"you guys sometime? And I'll be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":38.86,"endTime":41.59,"body":"like, there's no way I'll ever"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":38.86,"endTime":41.59,"body":"meet Charlie. He's busy and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":41.59,"endTime":43.81,"body":"doesn't even respond to my text."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":41.59,"endTime":43.81,"body":"So you can come meet me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":44.08,"endTime":44.5,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":44.56,"endTime":46.18,"body":"And I always have people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":44.56,"endTime":46.18,"body":"meet me in my office at work,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":46.18,"endTime":48.25,"body":"because I don't know if you're a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":46.18,"endTime":48.25,"body":"murder. So."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":48.61,"endTime":50.65,"body":"So if they are, they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":48.61,"endTime":50.65,"body":"might as well do it in your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":50.65,"endTime":51.37,"body":"office at work?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":51.4,"endTime":53.71,"body":"I feel like they're less"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":51.4,"endTime":53.71,"body":"likely to murder me at work with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":53.71,"endTime":54.52,"body":"all those people around."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":54.64,"endTime":55.15,"body":"That's true."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":55.33,"endTime":57.19,"body":"And also, I mean, they have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":55.33,"endTime":57.19,"body":"to like to pass by the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":57.19,"endTime":61.3,"body":"secretaries. And it just feels a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":57.19,"endTime":61.3,"body":"lot safer. Like I feel like if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":61.3,"endTime":64.09,"body":"you're gonna murder someone--you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":61.3,"endTime":64.09,"body":"like walk into the WILK at BYU."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":64.09,"endTime":65.41,"body":"Like, maybe I won't."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.5,"endTime":70.0,"body":"I I feel like that took"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.5,"endTime":70.0,"body":"a dark twist. I thought this was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":70.0,"endTime":72.34,"body":"gonna be about how everyone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":70.0,"endTime":72.34,"body":"wants to meet me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":73.17,"endTime":75.87,"body":"Everyone does want to meet"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":73.17,"endTime":75.87,"body":"you. But they get to meet me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":77.1,"endTime":79.92,"body":"I'm like happy to meet people."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":77.1,"endTime":79.92,"body":"So, but I like not going to go"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.92,"endTime":82.65,"body":"and like I'm already at my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.92,"endTime":82.65,"body":"office. I was just like, yeah..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":82.74,"endTime":83.43,"body":"That's funny."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":83.69,"endTime":86.45,"body":"But uh, yeah, before I had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":83.69,"endTime":86.45,"body":"an office people--and this is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":86.45,"endTime":88.82,"body":"like before even the podcast--I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":86.45,"endTime":88.82,"body":"would like have people like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":88.82,"endTime":91.07,"body":"come to my house or like a park."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":88.82,"endTime":91.07,"body":"And that always felt kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":91.1,"endTime":91.79,"body":"sketchy to me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":92.06,"endTime":93.92,"body":"I really like meeting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":92.06,"endTime":93.92,"body":"people impromptu."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":94.37,"endTime":95.42,"body":"Like on the street?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":95.48,"endTime":98.6,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. I like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":95.48,"endTime":98.6,"body":"that. More than like that, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":98.6,"endTime":101.72,"body":"an organized meeting. It feels"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":98.6,"endTime":101.72,"body":"so formal to me, or someone's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":101.72,"endTime":104.0,"body":"like, why do you want to meet"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":101.72,"endTime":104.0,"body":"me? Why is this formal?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":104.03,"endTime":105.32,"body":"You know why people want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":104.03,"endTime":105.32,"body":"meet you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":105.47,"endTime":107.87,"body":"No, tell me why Ben,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":105.47,"endTime":107.87,"body":"tell me more."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":108.65,"endTime":110.0,"body":"I haven't figured out"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":108.65,"endTime":110.0,"body":"myself."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":110.18,"endTime":112.31,"body":"Well, we would like to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":110.18,"endTime":112.31,"body":"provide a variety of voices and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":112.31,"endTime":114.62,"body":"perspectives. So today we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":112.31,"endTime":114.62,"body":"joined by Jessica Wells."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":114.83,"endTime":115.82,"body":"Hi, I'm Jessica."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":115.88,"endTime":117.95,"body":"Hey, Jessica. Well tell us"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":115.88,"endTime":117.95,"body":"a little bit about yourself."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":118.11,"endTime":120.36,"body":"I'm from Nova Scotia,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":118.11,"endTime":120.36,"body":"Canada originally, which makes"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":120.36,"endTime":120.99,"body":"me exotic."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":121.02,"endTime":121.59,"body":"Really?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":121.59,"endTime":121.95,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":121.98,"endTime":123.0,"body":"You know, I'm half"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":121.98,"endTime":123.0,"body":"Canadian."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":123.03,"endTime":125.04,"body":"Oh my gosh. Congrats."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":125.34,"endTime":127.47,"body":"I think Nova Scotia is the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":125.34,"endTime":127.47,"body":"most..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":127.53,"endTime":129.24,"body":"That is the most exotic"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":127.53,"endTime":129.24,"body":"Canada."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":129.27,"endTime":131.19,"body":"Yeah, it's even in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":129.27,"endTime":131.19,"body":"different timezone."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":131.28,"endTime":133.38,"body":"It really is. I've had"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":131.28,"endTime":133.38,"body":"people ask me how close to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":133.38,"endTime":136.29,"body":"Russia it is before because it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":133.38,"endTime":136.29,"body":"sounds like it should not be in"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":136.29,"endTime":136.77,"body":"Canada,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":136.8,"endTime":138.06,"body":"I think of Novosibirsk."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":139.74,"endTime":140.88,"body":"Or like supernova."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":141.48,"endTime":143.13,"body":"Anyway, you're from Canada,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":141.48,"endTime":143.13,"body":"we got derailed quickly."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":144.0,"endTime":147.54,"body":"Let's see, I've been"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":144.0,"endTime":147.54,"body":"here in Utah for 10 years. I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":147.54,"endTime":150.33,"body":"went to BYU in my undergraduate"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":147.54,"endTime":150.33,"body":"program, and I went to the U to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":150.33,"endTime":153.48,"body":"get my master's in social work."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":150.33,"endTime":153.48,"body":"So right now I'm a therapist. I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":153.48,"endTime":154.44,"body":"work up in Bountiful."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":155.79,"endTime":156.54,"body":"Bountiful, huh?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":156.57,"endTime":157.32,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":158.19,"endTime":159.93,"body":"Great. Well, how do you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":158.19,"endTime":159.93,"body":"self identify?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":160.38,"endTime":164.16,"body":"Oh, I identify as"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":160.38,"endTime":164.16,"body":"bisexual. But my last two"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":164.25,"endTime":166.23,"body":"serious relationships have been"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":164.25,"endTime":166.23,"body":"with women. So..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":166.44,"endTime":168.75,"body":"All right, well, so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":166.44,"endTime":168.75,"body":"Jessica, you and I know each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":168.75,"endTime":170.19,"body":"other from when we used to work"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":168.75,"endTime":170.19,"body":"together."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":170.19,"endTime":170.67,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":170.7,"endTime":173.13,"body":"I did my internship while I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":170.7,"endTime":173.13,"body":"was doing my Master's in social"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":173.13,"endTime":176.88,"body":"work at BYU at the LDS Family"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":173.13,"endTime":176.88,"body":"Services in Salt Lake."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":176.97,"endTime":177.27,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":177.63,"endTime":181.77,"body":"And my shift was from 1pm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":177.63,"endTime":181.77,"body":"to 9pm on Wednesdays, I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":181.77,"endTime":184.26,"body":"always have time for dinner. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":181.77,"endTime":184.26,"body":"so you would feed me."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":184.38,"endTime":186.42,"body":"That's right. Candy"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":184.38,"endTime":186.42,"body":"from my drawer. So I don't know"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":186.42,"endTime":187.38,"body":"how nutritious that really."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":187.38,"endTime":190.29,"body":"So it wasn't just candy you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":187.38,"endTime":190.29,"body":"had like those--like vegetable"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":190.29,"endTime":190.8,"body":"puffs?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":190.83,"endTime":193.59,"body":"Oh, I did. Yeah. Like"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":190.83,"endTime":193.59,"body":"the veggie straws. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":193.62,"endTime":194.49,"body":"Those are so good."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":194.52,"endTime":196.23,"body":"They were really good. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":194.52,"endTime":196.23,"body":"sometimes you'd even give me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":196.23,"endTime":197.34,"body":"like a whole Pop Tart."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":197.46,"endTime":199.44,"body":"Oh, yeah, I did have"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":197.46,"endTime":199.44,"body":"Pop Tarts. I call that \"Pop Tart"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":199.44,"endTime":199.62,"body":"Therapy.\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":201.96,"endTime":203.91,"body":"It was great and my office"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":201.96,"endTime":203.91,"body":"was..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":203.97,"endTime":206.25,"body":"Ben, you sound like a,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":203.97,"endTime":206.25,"body":"like a little child."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":207.11,"endTime":210.8,"body":"A whole Pop Tart. But it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":207.11,"endTime":210.8,"body":"really was incredibly kind. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":210.8,"endTime":213.56,"body":"my office was larger than yours."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":210.8,"endTime":213.56,"body":"Sometimes we would have to swap"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":213.56,"endTime":215.36,"body":"and you were like \"Eat all the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":213.56,"endTime":215.36,"body":"candy you want.\" I'd be like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":215.36,"endTime":217.25,"body":"doing therapy and I was chowing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":215.36,"endTime":217.25,"body":"down on candy."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":218.48,"endTime":218.81,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":219.05,"endTime":221.12,"body":"How long were you at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":219.05,"endTime":221.12,"body":"LDS family services?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":221.24,"endTime":224.33,"body":"Oh, I was there for two"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":221.24,"endTime":224.33,"body":"years about."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":224.72,"endTime":225.08,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":225.29,"endTime":226.1,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":226.13,"endTime":228.74,"body":"How old are you? Is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":226.13,"endTime":228.74,"body":"that okay? You look so young."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":228.74,"endTime":230.24,"body":"Like, I didn't think you would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":228.74,"endTime":230.24,"body":"have that much experience."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":230.0,"endTime":231.65,"body":"How old do you think I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":230.0,"endTime":231.65,"body":"am?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":231.74,"endTime":232.55,"body":"24."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":232.7,"endTime":236.78,"body":"Oh, my gosh, thank you."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":232.7,"endTime":236.78,"body":"No, I'm almost 29 I'll be 29 in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":236.0,"endTime":241.94,"body":"I'll get there."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":236.07,"endTime":241.59,"body":"Wow, I used to be 29."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":236.78,"endTime":236.96,"body":"May."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":242.03,"endTime":244.13,"body":"Anyway, so Jessica, when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":242.03,"endTime":244.13,"body":"you and I knew each other, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":244.13,"endTime":245.3,"body":"didn't know you were bisexual."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":245.37,"endTime":249.09,"body":"No, I did not. I was I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":245.37,"endTime":249.09,"body":"was pretty closeted at that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":249.09,"endTime":252.39,"body":"point in time. But I remember"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":249.09,"endTime":252.39,"body":"asking you questions all the"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":252.39,"endTime":255.63,"body":"time about like, all the stuff"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":252.39,"endTime":255.63,"body":"you were involved in and like"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":255.66,"endTime":260.85,"body":"the church's stance on, on"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":255.66,"endTime":260.85,"body":"everything so and I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":260.85,"endTime":262.98,"body":"was like secretly digging. I was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":260.85,"endTime":262.98,"body":"prying."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":263.01,"endTime":264.9,"body":"Yeah. And I had no idea. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":263.01,"endTime":264.9,"body":"just thought you were just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":264.9,"endTime":265.98,"body":"interested in me in my life."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":266.08,"endTime":268.12,"body":"I mean, I was--yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":266.08,"endTime":268.12,"body":"you're interesting."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":268.21,"endTime":270.49,"body":"Oh, thanks. That's why"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":268.21,"endTime":270.49,"body":"people want to meet me."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":271.57,"endTime":273.49,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Just keep"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":271.57,"endTime":273.49,"body":"on telling yourself that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":273.55,"endTime":277.27,"body":"Oh, okay I will. So what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":273.55,"endTime":277.27,"body":"what's been happening in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":277.27,"endTime":279.31,"body":"last like, two years? What what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":277.27,"endTime":279.31,"body":"led you to coming out?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":279.43,"endTime":282.13,"body":"So I started a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":279.43,"endTime":282.13,"body":"relationship with a friend of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":282.13,"endTime":286.33,"body":"mine. And it was kind of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":282.13,"endTime":286.33,"body":"unexpected. It wasn't I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":286.33,"endTime":288.61,"body":"planning on it. In fact, when I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":286.33,"endTime":288.61,"body":"kind of realized that I was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":288.61,"endTime":291.34,"body":"bisexual, I kind of had put that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":288.61,"endTime":291.34,"body":"to the side and I was like,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":291.34,"endTime":294.07,"body":"well, you know, I can just date"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":291.34,"endTime":294.07,"body":"men, I don't need to date women."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":294.13,"endTime":296.17,"body":"It's easier date men. And you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":294.13,"endTime":296.17,"body":"know..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":296.17,"endTime":297.94,"body":"Is it though? Is it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":296.17,"endTime":297.94,"body":"easier to date men?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":300.84,"endTime":303.78,"body":"In the community, yes,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":300.84,"endTime":303.78,"body":"as as a person who knows, you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":303.78,"endTime":308.31,"body":"know? So I just had kind of like"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":303.78,"endTime":308.31,"body":"decided that was the route I was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":308.31,"endTime":310.71,"body":"going to take, and I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":308.31,"endTime":310.71,"body":"going to pursue any relationship"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":310.71,"endTime":314.43,"body":"with women, because like that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":310.71,"endTime":314.43,"body":"actually would take work. And so"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":314.43,"endTime":316.74,"body":"if I just didn't put the work"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":314.43,"endTime":316.74,"body":"into it, it wasn't gonna happen."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":316.74,"endTime":318.66,"body":"And I would just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":316.74,"endTime":318.66,"body":"continue on my merry"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":319.29,"endTime":322.2,"body":"way--present as straight because"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":319.29,"endTime":322.2,"body":"that was just it seemed easier"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":322.2,"endTime":325.5,"body":"at the time and seemed easier"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":322.2,"endTime":325.5,"body":"with my family, seemed easier"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":325.5,"endTime":328.8,"body":"with friends. And so that's kind"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":325.5,"endTime":328.8,"body":"of what I did is--I dated men"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":328.8,"endTime":330.03,"body":"for a really long time. And they"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":328.8,"endTime":330.03,"body":"were great."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":330.03,"endTime":331.32,"body":"That definitely seems"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":330.03,"endTime":331.32,"body":"easier."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":331.0,"endTime":334.42,"body":"Yeah, yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":331.0,"endTime":334.42,"body":"That was how it went for a long"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":334.42,"endTime":337.03,"body":"time until I started hanging out"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":334.42,"endTime":337.03,"body":"with a friend of mine. And then,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":337.09,"endTime":340.24,"body":"you know, it came out that she"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":337.09,"endTime":340.24,"body":"was bisexual as well. And then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":340.24,"endTime":343.81,"body":"we kind of just got really close"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":340.24,"endTime":343.81,"body":"really fast and developed those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":343.81,"endTime":347.77,"body":"feelings. And it was just really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":343.81,"endTime":347.77,"body":"unexpected and interesting and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":347.77,"endTime":351.88,"body":"engaging and exciting in a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":347.77,"endTime":351.88,"body":"of ways and, and so our"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":351.88,"endTime":354.91,"body":"relationship kind of formed out"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":351.88,"endTime":354.91,"body":"of that, which was very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":354.91,"endTime":357.61,"body":"unexpected and not planned. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":354.91,"endTime":357.61,"body":"I didn't have to work for it,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":357.64,"endTime":360.52,"body":"and caught me really off guard,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":357.64,"endTime":360.52,"body":"but definitely, like changed my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":360.52,"endTime":364.15,"body":"life in a really impactful and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":360.52,"endTime":364.15,"body":"meaningful way. I am so much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":364.15,"endTime":367.21,"body":"happier for it now. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":364.15,"endTime":367.21,"body":"realize how happy I could be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":367.72,"endTime":370.39,"body":"kind of accepting all those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":367.72,"endTime":370.39,"body":"parts of me. So..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":370.51,"endTime":372.94,"body":"That's awesome. So you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":370.51,"endTime":372.94,"body":"weren't planning on coming out?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":372.94,"endTime":374.59,"body":"You weren't planning on dating"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":372.94,"endTime":374.59,"body":"women, it just kind of happened."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":374.68,"endTime":379.0,"body":"Yep. It was. It just"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":374.68,"endTime":379.0,"body":"like fell in my lap, so to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":379.0,"endTime":381.55,"body":"speak. And it wasn't wasn't a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":379.0,"endTime":381.55,"body":"plan for sure."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":381.67,"endTime":384.04,"body":"So what was the reaction of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":381.67,"endTime":384.04,"body":"your family when you told them"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":384.04,"endTime":385.06,"body":"you were dating a woman?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":385.66,"endTime":388.6,"body":"That took a long time,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":385.66,"endTime":388.6,"body":"actually, so I had almost dated"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":388.6,"endTime":392.62,"body":"her for like, eight months"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":388.6,"endTime":392.62,"body":"before I came out to my parents."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":392.92,"endTime":395.53,"body":"And it was a it was very"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":392.92,"endTime":395.53,"body":"unexpected. I was going to like"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":395.53,"endTime":398.44,"body":"wait for like years, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":395.53,"endTime":398.44,"body":"determined that like, I would be"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":398.44,"endTime":401.38,"body":"close to marrying this person if"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":398.44,"endTime":401.38,"body":"I was going to tell my family"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":401.38,"endTime":402.88,"body":"about it. My friends were"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":401.38,"endTime":402.88,"body":"different. I could tell my"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":402.88,"endTime":405.76,"body":"friends, I felt pretty"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":402.88,"endTime":405.76,"body":"comfortable and safe. But my"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":405.76,"endTime":408.7,"body":"parents I was like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":405.76,"endTime":408.7,"body":"know, my dad would be fine. But"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":408.7,"endTime":411.97,"body":"my mom I was like really"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":408.7,"endTime":411.97,"body":"concerned about. And so I was I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":411.97,"endTime":415.24,"body":"was just not going to do it. But"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":411.97,"endTime":415.24,"body":"I I told my mom at one point, I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":415.24,"endTime":417.28,"body":"felt pretty strongly that I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":415.24,"endTime":417.28,"body":"should tell her that I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":417.43,"endTime":420.43,"body":"actively going to church"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":417.43,"endTime":420.43,"body":"anymore. And so I came out with"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":420.43,"endTime":423.55,"body":"that. And then I at the time,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":420.43,"endTime":423.55,"body":"the girl I was dating, I told"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":423.55,"endTime":428.53,"body":"her that and she took that as a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":423.55,"endTime":428.53,"body":"kind of a springboard to tell"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":428.53,"endTime":431.74,"body":"her family that we were dating"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":428.53,"endTime":431.74,"body":"and I was like, \"Well, okay, if"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":431.74,"endTime":433.66,"body":"you're going to tell your"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":431.74,"endTime":433.66,"body":"family, I feel like really bad,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":433.66,"endTime":437.35,"body":"just like, keeping this from"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":433.66,"endTime":437.35,"body":"mine.\" And so it was like a week"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":437.35,"endTime":439.87,"body":"after I told my parents, I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":437.35,"endTime":439.87,"body":"wasn't really actively going to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":439.87,"endTime":445.39,"body":"church anymore that I told, told"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":439.87,"endTime":445.39,"body":"them about her and I dating. And"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":445.39,"endTime":447.88,"body":"it was it was hard because I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":445.39,"endTime":447.88,"body":"didn't want it to be connected"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":447.88,"endTime":449.32,"body":"to why I wasn't going to church"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":447.88,"endTime":449.32,"body":"anymore. Because they were"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":449.32,"endTime":452.8,"body":"actually very separate reasons."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":449.32,"endTime":452.8,"body":"It wasn't you know, and I have"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":452.98,"endTime":455.62,"body":"had no animosity towards the"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":452.98,"endTime":455.62,"body":"church whatsoever. It was simply"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":455.62,"endTime":458.89,"body":"like, it wasn't an uplifting"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":455.62,"endTime":458.89,"body":"place for me anymore. And it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":458.89,"endTime":464.08,"body":"wasn't in relation to my"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":458.89,"endTime":464.08,"body":"sexuality. So coming out, at the"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":464.08,"endTime":467.53,"body":"same time, I told my parents"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":464.08,"endTime":467.53,"body":"that around the same time was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":467.53,"endTime":470.41,"body":"actually like, I didn't want it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":467.53,"endTime":470.41,"body":"to be associated, but it kind of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":470.41,"endTime":471.85,"body":"ended it was anyways. Yeah..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":471.85,"endTime":473.65,"body":"But it was. That's a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":471.85,"endTime":473.65,"body":"lot of weight to hold on to for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":473.65,"endTime":474.52,"body":"a really long time."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":474.55,"endTime":475.36,"body":"Yes, yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":475.39,"endTime":477.4,"body":"This whole relationship"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":475.39,"endTime":477.4,"body":"and not being able to share that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":477.4,"endTime":480.22,"body":"with some of the people you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":477.4,"endTime":480.22,"body":"you're closest to, and then also"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":480.22,"endTime":483.52,"body":"having like a faith transition"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":480.22,"endTime":483.52,"body":"in the midst of all of these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":483.52,"endTime":485.29,"body":"huge life decisions. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":485.56,"endTime":488.11,"body":"Yeah. That was a lot."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":485.56,"endTime":488.11,"body":"It was an it was an interesting"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":488.11,"endTime":490.75,"body":"time in my life, for sure. It"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":488.11,"endTime":490.75,"body":"was a lot of secrets. It was a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":490.75,"endTime":492.88,"body":"lot of things to hold for a long"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":490.75,"endTime":492.88,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":493.23,"endTime":496.05,"body":"What was it like when you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":493.23,"endTime":496.05,"body":"like, let go of those secrets?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":496.0,"endTime":499.42,"body":"Well, I like to do it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":496.0,"endTime":499.42,"body":"in stages. So my parents I told"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":499.42,"endTime":502.84,"body":"first, and then I didn't tell my"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":499.42,"endTime":502.84,"body":"siblings, I have four older half"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":502.84,"endTime":508.18,"body":"siblings. I didn't tell them for"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":502.84,"endTime":508.18,"body":"another, like five months, six"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":508.18,"endTime":511.75,"body":"months after that, because I was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":508.18,"endTime":511.75,"body":"also worried about how that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":511.75,"endTime":515.47,"body":"would be received. Some of them"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":511.75,"endTime":515.47,"body":"I wasn't worried about but I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":515.47,"endTime":517.78,"body":"tried to keep it on the on the"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":515.47,"endTime":517.78,"body":"down low because I knew that if"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":517.78,"endTime":521.71,"body":"I told one person, I would have"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":517.78,"endTime":521.71,"body":"to tell everybody. So I...."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":521.71,"endTime":523.93,"body":"A lot of gossips in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":521.71,"endTime":523.93,"body":"your family?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":527.41,"endTime":528.64,"body":"That doesn't sound very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":527.41,"endTime":528.64,"body":"Canadian at all."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":530.23,"endTime":531.61,"body":"I thought Canadians"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":530.23,"endTime":531.61,"body":"were nice."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":532.99,"endTime":535.42,"body":"Like you tell somebody"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":532.99,"endTime":535.42,"body":"something and it's just like,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":535.78,"endTime":537.07,"body":"the likelihood of it getting"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":535.78,"endTime":537.07,"body":"out.."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":537.07,"endTime":537.94,"body":"It gets away from you."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":537.99,"endTime":540.12,"body":"It's far more so I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":537.99,"endTime":540.12,"body":"wanted to wait it out a little"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":540.12,"endTime":540.33,"body":"more."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":540.36,"endTime":541.71,"body":"Everyone Nova Scotia knows"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":540.36,"endTime":541.71,"body":"each other."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":541.98,"endTime":544.02,"body":"All the LDS members in"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":541.98,"endTime":544.02,"body":"Nova Scotia know each other."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":544.05,"endTime":544.68,"body":"That's a fact."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":544.75,"endTime":549.22,"body":"Yeah. So I'm assuming"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":544.75,"endTime":549.22,"body":"you're on the show because your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":549.22,"endTime":555.94,"body":"family wasn't supportive? I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":549.22,"endTime":555.94,"body":"just going to awkwardly jump"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":555.94,"endTime":556.72,"body":"into that."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":557.65,"endTime":559.69,"body":"A lot of them were"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":557.65,"endTime":559.69,"body":"really supportive. I was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":559.69,"endTime":562.24,"body":"surprised honestly, like it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":559.69,"endTime":562.24,"body":"caught me off guard because it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":562.24,"endTime":565.9,"body":"was a it was a big worry I held"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":562.24,"endTime":565.9,"body":"on to for a long time. Like I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":566.11,"endTime":568.99,"body":"think I was more worried and I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":566.11,"endTime":568.99,"body":"didn't give them enough credit."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":569.5,"endTime":573.25,"body":"But definitely in that I had a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":569.5,"endTime":573.25,"body":"family member too--that was it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":573.25,"endTime":576.85,"body":"was challenging for a long time."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":573.25,"endTime":576.85,"body":"It's gotten a lot better. This"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":576.85,"endTime":579.64,"body":"past year. It's gotten a lot"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":576.85,"endTime":579.64,"body":"better, but there was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":579.64,"endTime":583.57,"body":"hard conversations and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":579.64,"endTime":583.57,"body":"a lot of guilt for where I was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":583.57,"endTime":583.84,"body":"at."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":584.74,"endTime":587.56,"body":"So you don't have to air"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":584.74,"endTime":587.56,"body":"out any dirty laundry, but what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":587.56,"endTime":589.66,"body":"would you like to tell us about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":587.56,"endTime":589.66,"body":"what was hard about that?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":590.17,"endTime":593.83,"body":"So I grew up very, very"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":590.17,"endTime":593.83,"body":"LDS and I was very, very active"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":593.83,"endTime":596.29,"body":"in the church. I worked at LDS"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":593.83,"endTime":596.29,"body":"Family Services right? And"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":596.29,"endTime":596.62,"body":"then..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":597.01,"endTime":597.64,"body":"We had a blast."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":597.64,"endTime":598.75,"body":"Yeah, we did. It was a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":597.64,"endTime":598.75,"body":"blast."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":598.81,"endTime":599.74,"body":"Eating Pop Tarts."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":600.19,"endTime":602.14,"body":"It's true. I still love"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":600.19,"endTime":602.14,"body":"Pop Tarts. Okay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":602.2,"endTime":603.01,"body":"They're very good."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":603.33,"endTime":606.18,"body":"And I loved I loved LDS"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":603.33,"endTime":606.18,"body":"Family Services, I probably"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":606.18,"endTime":610.62,"body":"would have stayed there forever"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":606.18,"endTime":610.62,"body":"if I could of. And I also served"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":610.68,"endTime":615.57,"body":"a mission in Orlando, Florida."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":610.68,"endTime":615.57,"body":"And I was probably, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":615.57,"endTime":619.05,"body":"mom, for example, considered me"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":615.57,"endTime":619.05,"body":"like, very strong in the church."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":619.05,"endTime":621.72,"body":"I set like a really good"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":619.05,"endTime":621.72,"body":"example, too. I have like 16"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":621.72,"endTime":624.48,"body":"nieces and nephews, and there's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":621.72,"endTime":624.48,"body":"always a lot of pressure on me"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":624.48,"endTime":628.56,"body":"from a very young age to kind of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":624.48,"endTime":628.56,"body":"uphold that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":628.83,"endTime":630.66,"body":"Like set a standard be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":628.83,"endTime":630.66,"body":"the example."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":630.69,"endTime":633.84,"body":"Yeah, my parents were"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":630.69,"endTime":633.84,"body":"related me to Mary Poppins"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":633.84,"endTime":636.39,"body":"growing up, I was practically"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":633.84,"endTime":636.39,"body":"perfect in every way."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":637.98,"endTime":639.24,"body":"You're just a little"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":637.98,"endTime":639.24,"body":"spoonful of sugar."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":641.16,"endTime":644.19,"body":"So, so coming out and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":641.16,"endTime":644.19,"body":"going through that faith"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":644.19,"endTime":647.22,"body":"transition all the same time was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":644.19,"endTime":647.22,"body":"really challenging, because all"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":647.22,"endTime":651.09,"body":"of a sudden, I like I like,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":647.22,"endTime":651.09,"body":"broke a facade. And my mother,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":651.09,"endTime":653.91,"body":"for example, like, made a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":651.09,"endTime":653.91,"body":"comment of like, she didn't know"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":653.91,"endTime":656.55,"body":"who I was anymore. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":653.91,"endTime":656.55,"body":"I'm, I'm the same. I'm not--I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":656.85,"endTime":659.7,"body":"haven't changed. I just there"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":656.85,"endTime":659.7,"body":"are things that I've withheld."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":659.97,"endTime":660.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":660.72,"endTime":663.66,"body":"So I think that was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":660.72,"endTime":663.66,"body":"certainly the most like, that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":663.66,"endTime":666.51,"body":"was the hardest relationship to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":663.66,"endTime":666.51,"body":"navigate when I came out. So it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":666.51,"endTime":669.51,"body":"was good that I came out to her"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":666.51,"endTime":669.51,"body":"first before, I think everybody"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":669.51,"endTime":671.64,"body":"else because I think that was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":669.51,"endTime":671.64,"body":"the one that needed the most"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":671.64,"endTime":674.4,"body":"time and the most work, and it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":671.64,"endTime":674.4,"body":"still has its challenges"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":674.4,"endTime":675.06,"body":"occasionally."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":675.18,"endTime":678.42,"body":"See, it sounds like you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":675.18,"endTime":678.42,"body":"didn't really meet your family's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":678.42,"endTime":679.62,"body":"expectations of you."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":679.83,"endTime":681.87,"body":"Yeah, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":679.83,"endTime":681.87,"body":"interesting, because they can"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":681.96,"endTime":686.13,"body":"be--they're--my mom is can be so"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":681.96,"endTime":686.13,"body":"accepting. But at the same time,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":686.13,"endTime":689.07,"body":"I think it's hard because she"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":686.13,"endTime":689.07,"body":"had, yeah, this ideal or this"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":689.07,"endTime":692.76,"body":"expectation of what she wanted"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":689.07,"endTime":692.76,"body":"for my life or where she wanted"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":692.76,"endTime":696.3,"body":"me to be and where she thought I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":692.76,"endTime":696.3,"body":"would be based on like, all the"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":696.3,"endTime":697.98,"body":"things that I had done and gone"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":696.3,"endTime":697.98,"body":"through."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":698.88,"endTime":700.92,"body":"And then that's where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":698.88,"endTime":700.92,"body":"that disappointment entered in."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":700.95,"endTime":702.0,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":702.33,"endTime":704.94,"body":"And what was it like for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":702.33,"endTime":704.94,"body":"you to have your mom say, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":704.94,"endTime":705.96,"body":"don't even know you anymore?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":707.37,"endTime":710.34,"body":"Really hard. That was a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":707.37,"endTime":710.34,"body":"really, really hard"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":710.34,"endTime":712.62,"body":"conversation. I remember one"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":710.34,"endTime":712.62,"body":"conversation in particular,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":712.83,"endTime":716.67,"body":"like, I remember, I was talking"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":712.83,"endTime":716.67,"body":"to her, I was driving. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":716.67,"endTime":720.12,"body":"we were talking kind of about"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":716.67,"endTime":720.12,"body":"that or feeling like she would"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":720.15,"endTime":723.21,"body":"say things that just made me"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":720.15,"endTime":723.21,"body":"feel really, really guilty about"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":723.21,"endTime":726.39,"body":"the choices I was making. And,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":723.21,"endTime":726.39,"body":"and I knew that she didn't mean"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":726.39,"endTime":728.73,"body":"to make me feel that way. Like I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":726.39,"endTime":728.73,"body":"knew she wasn't saying it to be"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":728.73,"endTime":731.85,"body":"hurtful. But it was and I had"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":728.73,"endTime":731.85,"body":"to, like, stop her and be like,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":731.88,"endTime":736.71,"body":"\"You can't complain to me about"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":731.88,"endTime":736.71,"body":"me. You can't do that, like, I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":736.71,"endTime":741.12,"body":"can't be your therapist, in"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":736.71,"endTime":741.12,"body":"dealing with issues for me.\" And"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":741.33,"endTime":744.69,"body":"it was just like, it was a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":741.33,"endTime":744.69,"body":"really hard conversation that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":744.69,"endTime":748.35,"body":"like, that hurt me as much to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":744.69,"endTime":748.35,"body":"like talk about or say that as"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":748.35,"endTime":751.95,"body":"much as it hurt her, I think to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":748.35,"endTime":751.95,"body":"hear that and, and realize that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":751.95,"endTime":754.2,"body":"our dynamic had changed or"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":751.95,"endTime":754.2,"body":"shifted."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":754.41,"endTime":756.12,"body":"It also kind of sounds"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":754.41,"endTime":756.12,"body":"like as you were talking about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":756.12,"endTime":758.91,"body":"this relationship that you were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":756.12,"endTime":758.91,"body":"in, and how freeing it was and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":758.91,"endTime":762.51,"body":"how much more yourself you felt."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":758.91,"endTime":762.51,"body":"That made it more of a contrast"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":762.51,"endTime":765.3,"body":"when you're in a way doing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":762.51,"endTime":765.3,"body":"better than you ever have. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":765.3,"endTime":768.21,"body":"then but the people you love and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":765.3,"endTime":768.21,"body":"care about the most are like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":768.27,"endTime":769.23,"body":"retracting."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":769.78,"endTime":773.65,"body":"Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":769.78,"endTime":773.65,"body":"remember dreading, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":773.65,"endTime":775.87,"body":"would call my mom once a week, I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":773.65,"endTime":775.87,"body":"remember dreading kind of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":775.87,"endTime":778.24,"body":"calling her a little bit, I knew"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":775.87,"endTime":778.24,"body":"that she dreaded it too. That"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":778.24,"endTime":780.67,"body":"was like, the hard thing is"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":778.24,"endTime":780.67,"body":"like, it was hard for her to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":780.67,"endTime":782.35,"body":"have these conversations, it was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":780.67,"endTime":782.35,"body":"hard for me to have these"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":782.35,"endTime":784.9,"body":"conversations. And at the same"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":782.35,"endTime":784.9,"body":"time, you're right, like I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":784.9,"endTime":787.81,"body":"absolutely was, like, happier"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":784.9,"endTime":787.81,"body":"than I'd ever been. And I would"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":787.81,"endTime":790.66,"body":"like try to tell her that and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":787.81,"endTime":790.66,"body":"like she couldn't, like accept"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":790.66,"endTime":793.27,"body":"that. Because at the same time,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":790.66,"endTime":793.27,"body":"she was like, in her own"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":793.27,"endTime":796.18,"body":"grieving process. And like, I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":793.27,"endTime":796.18,"body":"was trying my best to honor that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":796.18,"endTime":798.76,"body":"as well. And to like, understand"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":796.18,"endTime":798.76,"body":"that and understand that she had"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":798.76,"endTime":802.39,"body":"her own place that she was at"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":798.76,"endTime":802.39,"body":"and, and that was okay. But it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":802.39,"endTime":805.24,"body":"was still like, it was so hard"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":802.39,"endTime":805.24,"body":"because I wanted things to just"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":805.24,"endTime":806.44,"body":"be okay between us."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":806.47,"endTime":809.71,"body":"Almost like, how can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":806.47,"endTime":809.71,"body":"happiness exist outside of her"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":809.71,"endTime":810.73,"body":"frame of reference?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":810.79,"endTime":811.18,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":811.3,"endTime":811.63,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":811.66,"endTime":811.99,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":812.23,"endTime":814.06,"body":"Jessica, you were so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":812.23,"endTime":814.06,"body":"gracious right now, you're like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":814.09,"endTime":816.67,"body":"you were saying that you need to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":814.09,"endTime":816.67,"body":"give her the space to think and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":816.67,"endTime":817.78,"body":"process things as well."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":817.96,"endTime":818.23,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":818.26,"endTime":820.36,"body":"That's a really kind thing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":818.26,"endTime":820.36,"body":"to give your mom."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":820.81,"endTime":823.57,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I love"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":820.81,"endTime":823.57,"body":"her. But also, it's what she"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":823.57,"endTime":827.8,"body":"needed, you know. And I had to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":823.57,"endTime":827.8,"body":"understand that as much as I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":827.8,"endTime":828.22,"body":"could."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":828.73,"endTime":830.86,"body":"That reminds me, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":828.73,"endTime":830.86,"body":"have said this a couple times"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":830.86,"endTime":833.08,"body":"before, but when we did that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":830.86,"endTime":833.08,"body":"episode of the stages of coming"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":833.08,"endTime":834.76,"body":"out, Ben, what are the stages?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":834.0,"endTime":837.54,"body":"Well, there's six of them."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":834.0,"endTime":837.54,"body":"There's identity. I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":837.54,"endTime":837.99,"body":"remember the ...!"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":839.82,"endTime":842.46,"body":"Go back and listen to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":839.82,"endTime":842.46,"body":"it. But but but ..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":842.46,"endTime":844.32,"body":"Identity synthesis,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":842.46,"endTime":844.32,"body":"synthesis."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":844.35,"endTime":845.64,"body":"Identity synthesis."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":845.87,"endTime":849.65,"body":"Well, like, we've talked about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":845.87,"endTime":849.65,"body":"how like, parents, loved ones,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":849.65,"endTime":852.08,"body":"like even allies kind of go"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":849.65,"endTime":852.08,"body":"through that same stages where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":852.08,"endTime":855.83,"body":"it's almost like starts with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":852.08,"endTime":855.83,"body":"like, fear or anger, and then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":855.83,"endTime":859.46,"body":"doubt and then like grief, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":855.83,"endTime":859.46,"body":"they're moving through this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":859.46,"endTime":862.22,"body":"process. And it sounds like you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":859.46,"endTime":862.22,"body":"did a really good job,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":862.4,"endTime":865.34,"body":"understanding that, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":862.4,"endTime":865.34,"body":"realizing that you've been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":865.34,"endTime":867.59,"body":"working on this for a really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":865.34,"endTime":867.59,"body":"long time, but your parents"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":867.59,"endTime":870.11,"body":"hadn't. So you gave them the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":867.59,"endTime":870.11,"body":"benefit of the doubt, you gave"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":870.11,"endTime":872.48,"body":"them space. And it also sounds"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":870.11,"endTime":872.48,"body":"like you gave them like a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":872.75,"endTime":878.45,"body":"vulnerability. And like you kept"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":872.75,"endTime":878.45,"body":"trying for this relationship."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":878.63,"endTime":880.67,"body":"Like even though you're dreading"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":878.63,"endTime":880.67,"body":"talking to your mom, like you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":880.67,"endTime":884.24,"body":"still wanted to build that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":880.67,"endTime":884.24,"body":"relationship and try to help her"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":884.24,"endTime":887.36,"body":"see you as you were, not as who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":884.24,"endTime":887.36,"body":"she thought you were."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":887.69,"endTime":889.58,"body":"Yeah, I think I think"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":887.69,"endTime":889.58,"body":"that's accurate."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":889.61,"endTime":891.86,"body":"Like huge props to you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":889.61,"endTime":891.86,"body":"for that because that that can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":891.86,"endTime":892.52,"body":"be difficult."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":893.06,"endTime":895.01,"body":"Yeah. And it was and I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":893.06,"endTime":895.01,"body":"think, you know, it was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":895.01,"endTime":896.96,"body":"difficult for me it was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":895.01,"endTime":896.96,"body":"difficult for her too because I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":896.96,"endTime":900.02,"body":"think she also wanted that,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":896.96,"endTime":900.02,"body":"right? She wanted to get to know"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":900.02,"endTime":903.38,"body":"me. And like she really values"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":900.02,"endTime":903.38,"body":"honesty. And so I think it was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":903.38,"endTime":907.16,"body":"also almost kind of felt like a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":903.38,"endTime":907.16,"body":"betrayal that I hadn't been open"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":907.16,"endTime":907.94,"body":"sooner."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":908.18,"endTime":908.6,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":908.63,"endTime":911.81,"body":"And so it was like"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":908.63,"endTime":911.81,"body":"this, it was there was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":911.9,"endTime":914.42,"body":"trying to meet each other where"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":911.9,"endTime":914.42,"body":"we were at or where we were both"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":914.42,"endTime":916.16,"body":"kind of like hurting in"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":914.42,"endTime":916.16,"body":"different ways."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":916.46,"endTime":919.37,"body":"That's actually a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":916.46,"endTime":919.37,"body":"really common theme. I think, in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":919.37,"endTime":922.67,"body":"parents and in loved ones. It's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":919.37,"endTime":922.67,"body":"like, I wish you would--like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":922.67,"endTime":926.12,"body":"betrayal that they hadn't known"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":922.67,"endTime":926.12,"body":"sooner. And I feel like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":926.12,"endTime":927.08,"body":"encountered that a lot."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":927.48,"endTime":929.25,"body":"Definitely. It's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":927.48,"endTime":929.25,"body":"interesting, as you're talking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":929.25,"endTime":932.1,"body":"about all this, like, my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":929.25,"endTime":932.1,"body":"immediate family has never been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":932.1,"endTime":935.49,"body":"like disappointed in my choices,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":932.1,"endTime":935.49,"body":"I think it is, IN my choices."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":936.36,"endTime":939.6,"body":"We've been having an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":936.36,"endTime":939.6,"body":"argument or discussion. is it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":939.84,"endTime":942.6,"body":"disappointed BY my choices, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":939.84,"endTime":942.6,"body":"disappointed IN my choices?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":942.63,"endTime":944.1,"body":"They probably both"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":942.63,"endTime":944.1,"body":"have--this is why I say a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":944.1,"endTime":946.47,"body":"different connotation. Anyway,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":944.1,"endTime":946.47,"body":"prepositions are hard."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":946.0,"endTime":950.08,"body":"Not as hard as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":946.0,"endTime":950.08,"body":"pronouns."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":952.97,"endTime":955.55,"body":"Anyway, my family was never"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":952.97,"endTime":955.55,"body":"really just disappointing cuz"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":955.55,"endTime":957.65,"body":"I've like made the choices, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":955.55,"endTime":957.65,"body":"think that if they could have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":957.65,"endTime":960.44,"body":"prescribed like I would have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":957.65,"endTime":960.44,"body":"made. So I guess that just makes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":960.44,"endTime":963.41,"body":"it easier for them than me. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":960.44,"endTime":963.41,"body":"I remember when I first came out"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":963.41,"endTime":965.09,"body":"to my parents, like they weren't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":963.41,"endTime":965.09,"body":"really ready to have the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":965.09,"endTime":967.97,"body":"conversation. And we didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":965.09,"endTime":967.97,"body":"really have like an in depth"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":967.97,"endTime":970.34,"body":"conversation for like, seven"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":967.97,"endTime":970.34,"body":"years until after I came out to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":970.34,"endTime":974.06,"body":"them. And that was like, more me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":970.34,"endTime":974.06,"body":"than then like they kept"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":974.06,"endTime":976.4,"body":"bringing it up. But during those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":974.06,"endTime":976.4,"body":"seven years, like my dad was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":976.4,"endTime":978.95,"body":"reading blog posts and reading"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":976.4,"endTime":978.95,"body":"stories about LGBTQ Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":978.95,"endTime":982.79,"body":"Saints. And so when I was ready,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":978.95,"endTime":982.79,"body":"like he was prepared, but my mom"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":982.79,"endTime":984.95,"body":"like she hadn't done that. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":982.79,"endTime":984.95,"body":"then like, as soon as I like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":984.98,"endTime":987.86,"body":"opened up my heart, like, like a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":984.98,"endTime":987.86,"body":"switch flipped immediately. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":987.86,"endTime":990.44,"body":"she like, kind of got it and was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":987.86,"endTime":990.44,"body":"like, \"Ben, I'm with you. Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":990.47,"endTime":992.69,"body":"whatever you need to do. We're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":990.47,"endTime":992.69,"body":"okay.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":993.0,"endTime":996.84,"body":"Yeah, I kind of had my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":993.0,"endTime":996.84,"body":"sister prepare my family. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":993.0,"endTime":1130.91,"body":"Yeah, like, this wasn't like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":993.0,"endTime":1130.91,"body":"strategy of mine. But like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":993.02,"endTime":993.41,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":993.41,"endTime":993.98,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":996.84,"endTime":999.3,"body":"don't know if she really needed"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":996.84,"endTime":999.3,"body":"to, because their, their"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":999.3,"endTime":1001.61,"body":"reactions were so much better"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":999.3,"endTime":1001.61,"body":"than I could have ever imagined."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1001.94,"endTime":1004.88,"body":"But for about a year and a half,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1001.94,"endTime":1004.88,"body":"she was like planting little"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1004.88,"endTime":1007.91,"body":"seeds purposely because she"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1004.88,"endTime":1007.91,"body":"knew--both my sisters knew, but"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1007.91,"endTime":1011.21,"body":"my parents didn't. So she was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1007.91,"endTime":1011.21,"body":"kind of helping. I think there's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1011.21,"endTime":1013.28,"body":"two aspects to this, because one"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1011.21,"endTime":1013.28,"body":"of them is like, what if they're"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1013.28,"endTime":1017.0,"body":"disappointed in who I am? And"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1013.28,"endTime":1017.0,"body":"then what if they're"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1017.0,"endTime":1019.82,"body":"disappointed in what I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1017.0,"endTime":1019.82,"body":"with that? So there's almost"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1019.82,"endTime":1023.81,"body":"like two sides. But a lot of it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1019.82,"endTime":1023.81,"body":"revolves around coming out,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1023.84,"endTime":1028.16,"body":"right? So it's like, this is who"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1023.84,"endTime":1028.16,"body":"I am. But also like, even coming"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1028.16,"endTime":1029.99,"body":"out publicly, like I talked to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1028.16,"endTime":1029.99,"body":"people, they're like, well, I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1029.99,"endTime":1032.24,"body":"want to come out, but my parents"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1029.99,"endTime":1032.24,"body":"don't want me to. And there's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1032.24,"endTime":1035.63,"body":"like, a lot of like, it seems"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1032.24,"endTime":1035.63,"body":"like mess surrounding that. And"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1035.63,"endTime":1038.15,"body":"one of the things I tried really"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1035.63,"endTime":1038.15,"body":"hard to do coming out is to be"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1038.15,"endTime":1040.88,"body":"very intentional about it. And"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1038.15,"endTime":1040.88,"body":"kind of like you were saying,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1040.91,"endTime":1045.2,"body":"understand, I like okay, these"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1040.91,"endTime":1045.2,"body":"are the things I know, I have a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1046.07,"endTime":1048.23,"body":"traditional--well, I guess we're"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1046.07,"endTime":1048.23,"body":"not really traditional because"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1048.23,"endTime":1050.66,"body":"my parents are divorced, but"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1048.23,"endTime":1050.66,"body":"like, my parents grew up"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1050.9,"endTime":1055.76,"body":"conservative, and LDS, with not"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1050.9,"endTime":1055.76,"body":"really any education exposure"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1055.76,"endTime":1059.9,"body":"surrounding LGBTQ issues. So"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1055.76,"endTime":1059.9,"body":"like, how am I going to build"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1059.9,"endTime":1062.6,"body":"this coming out approach in a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1059.9,"endTime":1062.6,"body":"way that's going to be palatable"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1062.6,"endTime":1066.05,"body":"to them in a way that's going to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1062.6,"endTime":1066.05,"body":"be like understandable for them."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1066.14,"endTime":1068.81,"body":"And I think sometimes it's hard"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1066.14,"endTime":1068.81,"body":"to do that. Because like, when"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1068.81,"endTime":1071.42,"body":"you're like, so stressed and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1068.81,"endTime":1071.42,"body":"like you want to come out, you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1071.42,"endTime":1074.78,"body":"want liberation, it's really"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1071.42,"endTime":1074.78,"body":"easy to like be reactive about"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1074.78,"endTime":1077.69,"body":"that approach. But I think it's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1074.78,"endTime":1077.69,"body":"like the healthiest people I've"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1077.69,"endTime":1081.35,"body":"seen have been very intentional,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1077.69,"endTime":1081.35,"body":"and like gone with forgiving"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1081.35,"endTime":1083.99,"body":"approach as they come out, which"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1081.35,"endTime":1083.99,"body":"is kind of weird. And it's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1083.99,"endTime":1086.57,"body":"actually kind of sad in a way"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1083.99,"endTime":1086.57,"body":"that like, we have to be so"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1086.57,"endTime":1090.5,"body":"forgiving, as we are like doing"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1086.57,"endTime":1090.5,"body":"something so brave. But but it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1090.5,"endTime":1094.13,"body":"makes things so much better, I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1090.5,"endTime":1094.13,"body":"think. I was talking to this one"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1094.28,"endTime":1097.31,"body":"kid once and he was talking"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1094.28,"endTime":1097.31,"body":"about how he came out. And his"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1097.31,"endTime":1099.5,"body":"family was really unsupportive"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1097.31,"endTime":1099.5,"body":"and just like incredibly"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1099.5,"endTime":1102.47,"body":"reactive, and it caused a huge"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1099.5,"endTime":1102.47,"body":"fight. And I was like, I wonder"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1102.47,"endTime":1106.1,"body":"how he came out. So I asked him"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1102.47,"endTime":1106.1,"body":"and he's like, \"Well, I was like"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1106.13,"endTime":1108.92,"body":"Mom, Dad, I'm gay. And I have"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1106.13,"endTime":1108.92,"body":"fiance and we're getting marrie"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1108.92,"endTime":1110.9,"body":"in two weeks, and there'"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1108.92,"endTime":1110.9,"body":"nothing you can do about it\". A"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1110.9,"endTime":1115.28,"body":"d I was like, okay, like, lik"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1110.9,"endTime":1115.28,"body":", like, let's kind of unravel so"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1115.28,"endTime":1118.4,"body":"e of that. Because, like the w"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1115.28,"endTime":1118.4,"body":"y you present something, it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1118.4,"endTime":1120.26,"body":"s almost like you kind of have"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1118.4,"endTime":1120.26,"body":"o market your coming out to yo"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1120.26,"endTime":1124.97,"body":"r parents. And but it helps y"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1120.26,"endTime":1124.97,"body":"u know, you can give it in dos"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1124.97,"endTime":1128.21,"body":"s or in a way that saves t"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1124.97,"endTime":1128.21,"body":"e relationshi"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1130.91,"endTime":1133.94,"body":"first like, 30 times I came out,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1130.91,"endTime":1133.94,"body":"I'm like, \"I'm gay. And I like"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1133.94,"endTime":1138.05,"body":"Jesus.\" Like it ended to be like"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1133.94,"endTime":1138.05,"body":"a conversation, but like my"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1138.05,"endTime":1140.21,"body":"testimony and belief in the"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1138.05,"endTime":1140.21,"body":"church, like \"I'm gay, and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1140.66,"endTime":1142.19,"body":"here's why--here's what I love"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1140.66,"endTime":1142.19,"body":"about the church.\""},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1142.52,"endTime":1142.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1143.33,"endTime":1144.59,"body":"This is authentic to me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1143.33,"endTime":1144.59,"body":"But..."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1144.92,"endTime":1146.24,"body":"Yeah, I love that,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1144.92,"endTime":1146.24,"body":"though."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1146.9,"endTime":1149.93,"body":"So Jessica, I have a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1146.9,"endTime":1149.93,"body":"question. So yesterday, one of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1149.93,"endTime":1152.81,"body":"my friends texted me--a very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1149.93,"endTime":1152.81,"body":"good friend of mine and her"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1152.81,"endTime":1155.45,"body":"brother and sister in law, who I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1152.81,"endTime":1155.45,"body":"also know--she texts me that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1155.45,"endTime":1158.84,"body":"they've just decided to leave"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1155.45,"endTime":1158.84,"body":"the church. And so she texted me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1158.84,"endTime":1161.0,"body":"this like a short text like \"so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1158.84,"endTime":1161.0,"body":"and so has decided to leave the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1161.0,"endTime":1165.02,"body":"church.\" And I didn't know how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1161.0,"endTime":1165.02,"body":"to respond right away. And so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1165.02,"endTime":1168.35,"body":"just paused for like 20 seconds."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1165.02,"endTime":1168.35,"body":"And then I texted back. \"I want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1168.35,"endTime":1172.91,"body":"to hear their story.\" What like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1168.35,"endTime":1172.91,"body":"what do you wish your family had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1172.91,"endTime":1176.39,"body":"done when you talked about your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1172.91,"endTime":1176.39,"body":"change in faith and your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1176.39,"endTime":1177.14,"body":"orientation?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1178.05,"endTime":1179.37,"body":"Some of my family"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1178.05,"endTime":1179.37,"body":"members did this really"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1179.4,"endTime":1185.16,"body":"well--like my sister. And to be"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1179.4,"endTime":1185.16,"body":"fair, she had like a better I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1185.16,"endTime":1187.62,"body":"don't know, it was a better"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1185.16,"endTime":1187.62,"body":"environment to like, ask these"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1187.62,"endTime":1190.29,"body":"questions. But as soon as I came"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1187.62,"endTime":1190.29,"body":"out to her, we were on FaceTime"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1190.29,"endTime":1193.41,"body":"and and she just asked me about"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1190.29,"endTime":1193.41,"body":"you know, who I was dating at"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1193.41,"endTime":1196.68,"body":"the time and like what I liked"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1193.41,"endTime":1196.68,"body":"about her and like, like, almost"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1196.68,"endTime":1199.77,"body":"like didn't skip a beat and same"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1196.68,"endTime":1199.77,"body":"with like a couple other family"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1199.77,"endTime":1202.65,"body":"members I had just really like"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1199.77,"endTime":1202.65,"body":"just immediately went into, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1202.68,"endTime":1205.86,"body":"yeah, tell me tell me about your"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1202.68,"endTime":1205.86,"body":"relationship.\" And that was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1205.89,"endTime":1208.92,"body":"really nice. Like, it was just"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1205.89,"endTime":1208.92,"body":"it was very relieving it was."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1208.95,"endTime":1212.13,"body":"But it also it felt really"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1208.95,"endTime":1212.13,"body":"validating because like we"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1212.13,"endTime":1214.23,"body":"talked about earlier, like I was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1212.13,"endTime":1214.23,"body":"at a place in my life where I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1214.23,"endTime":1218.19,"body":"was the happiest I've ever been."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1214.23,"endTime":1218.19,"body":"And I and I felt like I was in a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1218.19,"endTime":1220.44,"body":"really healthy relationship for"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1218.19,"endTime":1220.44,"body":"the, like one of the first times"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1220.44,"endTime":1224.55,"body":"in my life. And I was just,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1220.44,"endTime":1224.55,"body":"like, stoked to be me and being"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1224.55,"endTime":1227.22,"body":"with somebody who brought out"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1224.55,"endTime":1227.22,"body":"the best parts of me. And so to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1227.22,"endTime":1229.71,"body":"have people kind of ask about"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1227.22,"endTime":1229.71,"body":"that, like, I was like, so"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1229.71,"endTime":1231.87,"body":"excited to share it, right."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1229.71,"endTime":1231.87,"body":"Like, I was so excited to be"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1231.87,"endTime":1234.78,"body":"like, \"Oh, like, let me tell you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1231.87,"endTime":1234.78,"body":"about all these cool things that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1234.78,"endTime":1236.61,"body":"I've been learning about myself"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1234.78,"endTime":1236.61,"body":"and all these cool things I've"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1236.61,"endTime":1238.8,"body":"been learning in this"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1236.61,"endTime":1238.8,"body":"relationship and, and how great"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1238.8,"endTime":1241.17,"body":"it is.\" And that was probably"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1238.8,"endTime":1241.17,"body":"like the best best"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1241.83,"endTime":1244.38,"body":"response--kind of similar to to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1241.83,"endTime":1244.38,"body":"what you asked, you know, tell"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1244.38,"endTime":1248.34,"body":"me about this, what's going on,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1244.38,"endTime":1248.34,"body":"you know, is it's so validating"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1248.37,"endTime":1251.16,"body":"to be able to share your story."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1248.37,"endTime":1251.16,"body":"Where there were other members"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1251.16,"endTime":1253.92,"body":"of my family that I didn't, you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1251.16,"endTime":1253.92,"body":"know, get to have that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1253.92,"endTime":1256.92,"body":"conversation with. A lot of it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1253.92,"endTime":1256.92,"body":"was kind of addressing their"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1256.92,"endTime":1259.92,"body":"shock, or their, how they were"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1256.92,"endTime":1259.92,"body":"coping or dealing with it, which"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1259.92,"endTime":1263.01,"body":"I was fine to do, but definitely"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1259.92,"endTime":1263.01,"body":"a different approach."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1263.1,"endTime":1263.55,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1263.67,"endTime":1265.47,"body":"How much of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1263.67,"endTime":1265.47,"body":"disappointment you faced do you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1265.47,"endTime":1268.92,"body":"think came from, like religious"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1265.47,"endTime":1268.92,"body":"expectations?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1269.13,"endTime":1271.23,"body":"A fair amount actually,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1269.13,"endTime":1271.23,"body":"like, I think a lot of it was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1271.23,"endTime":1275.73,"body":"tied to to that. I obviously"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1271.23,"endTime":1275.73,"body":"there there are some aspects of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1275.73,"endTime":1279.87,"body":"that tied into my sexuality. But"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1275.73,"endTime":1279.87,"body":"more surprised, I got more"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1279.87,"endTime":1283.11,"body":"surprised about my sexuality,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1279.87,"endTime":1283.11,"body":"and more disappointment on the"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1283.11,"endTime":1285.72,"body":"regards of like, how I was"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1283.11,"endTime":1285.72,"body":"living in accordance with my"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1285.72,"endTime":1289.11,"body":"faith. And then they tied that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1285.72,"endTime":1289.11,"body":"to my sexuality, which was what"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1289.11,"endTime":1289.59,"body":"it was."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1291.4,"endTime":1294.46,"body":"So thinking of my family,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1291.4,"endTime":1294.46,"body":"like, I know that if I like came"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1294.46,"endTime":1298.45,"body":"home with a fiance, and I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1294.46,"endTime":1298.45,"body":"like, \"This is my fiance, we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1298.45,"endTime":1301.33,"body":"getting married.\" He's a guy, of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1298.45,"endTime":1301.33,"body":"course. \"And I don't believe in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1301.33,"endTime":1303.31,"body":"the church anymore.\" Like my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1301.33,"endTime":1303.31,"body":"family would just like love me,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1303.31,"endTime":1305.62,"body":"embrace me. They'd want to meet"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1303.31,"endTime":1305.62,"body":"him and know everything. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1305.62,"endTime":1308.23,"body":"like, like, they'd ask those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1305.62,"endTime":1308.23,"body":"kinds of good questions. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1308.23,"endTime":1310.33,"body":"also believe that like, they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1308.23,"endTime":1310.33,"body":"would be disappointed."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1310.36,"endTime":1311.14,"body":"Sure. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1311.2,"endTime":1313.06,"body":"And I don't really know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1311.2,"endTime":1313.06,"body":"like, how to fix that. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1313.06,"endTime":1315.13,"body":"sure if that's something that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1313.06,"endTime":1315.13,"body":"can be fixed."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1315.16,"endTime":1317.02,"body":"Would you be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1315.16,"endTime":1317.02,"body":"disappointed in yourself?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1317.59,"endTime":1321.25,"body":"I don't know. I think if I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1317.59,"endTime":1321.25,"body":"were at that point, no, because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1321.25,"endTime":1325.21,"body":"I try and be very congruous,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1321.25,"endTime":1325.21,"body":"congruent?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1325.75,"endTime":1326.53,"body":"Incongruent."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1326.54,"endTime":1330.08,"body":"I try and be congruent."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1326.54,"endTime":1330.08,"body":"Like, I try and make choices"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1330.08,"endTime":1331.13,"body":"that align with my values."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1331.0,"endTime":1332.98,"body":"And so I don't think I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1331.0,"endTime":1332.98,"body":"would make a choice that didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1331.16,"endTime":1331.43,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1332.98,"endTime":1335.62,"body":"align with my values. So I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1332.98,"endTime":1335.62,"body":"if I were making that choice,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1335.62,"endTime":1337.24,"body":"then I don't think that--I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1335.62,"endTime":1337.24,"body":"actually know, I wouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1337.24,"endTime":1340.3,"body":"disappointed. Because I would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1337.24,"endTime":1340.3,"body":"have gotten to a place where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1340.48,"endTime":1342.52,"body":"this feels like the right thing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1340.48,"endTime":1342.52,"body":"for me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1342.7,"endTime":1344.59,"body":"So in this sense,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1342.7,"endTime":1344.59,"body":"disappointment, other people's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1344.59,"endTime":1348.28,"body":"disappointment comes from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1344.59,"endTime":1348.28,"body":"somebody else making choices"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1348.28,"endTime":1349.87,"body":"that don't align with THEIR"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1348.28,"endTime":1349.87,"body":"values."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1349.87,"endTime":1350.47,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1350.83,"endTime":1352.84,"body":"Are we allowed to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1350.83,"endTime":1352.84,"body":"assign values to someone else?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1352.87,"endTime":1354.22,"body":"I think we just naturally"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1352.87,"endTime":1354.22,"body":"do that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.4,"endTime":1356.86,"body":"Yeah, but I think we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.4,"endTime":1356.86,"body":"naturally should try not to,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1357.58,"endTime":1359.17,"body":"like or intentionally try not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1357.58,"endTime":1359.17,"body":"to."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1359.56,"endTime":1361.69,"body":"Agreed. I think it's just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1359.56,"endTime":1361.69,"body":"human to be like, I have these"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1361.69,"endTime":1363.4,"body":"values, you're not living my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1361.69,"endTime":1363.4,"body":"values, therefore, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1363.4,"endTime":1364.24,"body":"disappointed in you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1364.3,"endTime":1367.27,"body":"Right. But But I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1364.3,"endTime":1367.27,"body":"like, for like parents or family"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1367.27,"endTime":1369.25,"body":"who are listening, that are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1367.27,"endTime":1369.25,"body":"maybe still struggling with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1369.25,"endTime":1373.42,"body":"that, like, maybe that's almost"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1369.25,"endTime":1373.42,"body":"like a key indicator to see"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1373.42,"endTime":1376.72,"body":"where things are, you know?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1373.42,"endTime":1376.72,"body":"Like, is my love and support for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1376.72,"endTime":1379.84,"body":"someone else, contingent upon"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1376.72,"endTime":1379.84,"body":"whether or not they're living"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1379.84,"endTime":1383.14,"body":"according to my own value set."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1379.84,"endTime":1383.14,"body":"And if that's the way it is,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1383.14,"endTime":1385.03,"body":"then you're going to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1383.14,"endTime":1385.03,"body":"disappointed in a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1385.03,"endTime":1388.03,"body":"and people aren't going to share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1385.03,"endTime":1388.03,"body":"things with you. You know?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1388.06,"endTime":1391.06,"body":"That's true, like my one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1388.06,"endTime":1391.06,"body":"sibling who was like, I feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1391.06,"endTime":1395.83,"body":"like the most worried about me,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1391.06,"endTime":1395.83,"body":"he like knows the least, about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1395.83,"endTime":1396.31,"body":"my life."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1396.49,"endTime":1401.53,"body":"Really? Actually,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1396.49,"endTime":1401.53,"body":"that's also true. In my case,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1401.56,"endTime":1404.95,"body":"for me, it's more like extended"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1401.56,"endTime":1404.95,"body":"family or like people that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1404.95,"endTime":1407.29,"body":"used to know because I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1404.95,"endTime":1407.29,"body":"really talk to anymore. They're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1407.29,"endTime":1410.02,"body":"like, it's more like assumptions"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1407.29,"endTime":1410.02,"body":"about what I believe and what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1410.02,"endTime":1412.36,"body":"I'm doing, rather than knowing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1410.02,"endTime":1412.36,"body":"what's actually going on."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1412.81,"endTime":1415.48,"body":"Right? I mean, that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1412.81,"endTime":1415.48,"body":"makes total sense to me,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1415.51,"endTime":1418.48,"body":"honestly, I feel the same about"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1415.51,"endTime":1418.48,"body":"my family, right? If you are"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1418.48,"endTime":1421.03,"body":"asking questions about my life,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1418.48,"endTime":1421.03,"body":"and you're interested in where"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1421.03,"endTime":1423.79,"body":"I'm where I'm at, and what I'm"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1421.03,"endTime":1423.79,"body":"going through, then you're going"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1423.79,"endTime":1425.86,"body":"to learn a lot about me. If"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1423.79,"endTime":1425.86,"body":"you're not asking those"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1425.86,"endTime":1427.93,"body":"questions, or you're not open to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1425.86,"endTime":1427.93,"body":"receiving those kinds of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1427.93,"endTime":1430.21,"body":"answers, you're not going to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1427.93,"endTime":1430.21,"body":"hear a lot about me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1430.3,"endTime":1432.07,"body":"I think one of the most"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1430.3,"endTime":1432.07,"body":"frustrating things for me is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1432.07,"endTime":1436.36,"body":"like the people are still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1432.07,"endTime":1436.36,"body":"disappointed by the existence of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1436.36,"endTime":1440.08,"body":"someone else. You know what I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1436.36,"endTime":1440.08,"body":"mean? Like, and I probably sense"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1440.08,"endTime":1443.23,"body":"from this idea that being LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1440.08,"endTime":1443.23,"body":"plus is a choice or is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1443.23,"endTime":1445.66,"body":"associated with some sort of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1443.23,"endTime":1445.66,"body":"choice. I mean, it is associated"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1445.66,"endTime":1448.42,"body":"with choices. Like you have to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1445.66,"endTime":1448.42,"body":"be like, this is what I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1448.42,"endTime":1452.35,"body":"do with who I am. But just even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1448.42,"endTime":1452.35,"body":"like, the idea of like, coming"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1452.35,"endTime":1454.69,"body":"out and someone's like, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1452.35,"endTime":1454.69,"body":"this is so disappointing. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1454.93,"endTime":1458.05,"body":"I'm so upset that my son or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1454.93,"endTime":1458.05,"body":"daughter is gay.\" I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1458.26,"endTime":1458.86,"body":"okay..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1461.2,"endTime":1463.36,"body":"I'm sorry, that I was happy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1461.2,"endTime":1463.36,"body":"and my life is a tragedy to you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1464.059,"endTime":1468.589,"body":"I'm sorry that I exist,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1464.059,"endTime":1468.589,"body":"like, like, don't put people in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1468.589,"endTime":1469.489,"body":"that situation."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1470.26,"endTime":1473.29,"body":"So Jessica, let's say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1470.26,"endTime":1473.29,"body":"there's just like for a listener"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1473.29,"endTime":1476.53,"body":"who, who's in the same situation"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1473.29,"endTime":1476.53,"body":"as your mom, and like, has an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1476.53,"endTime":1479.77,"body":"awesome daughter who's beautiful"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1476.53,"endTime":1479.77,"body":"and smart and has awesome...."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1479.77,"endTime":1480.82,"body":"Really pretty eyes.."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1481.03,"endTime":1483.73,"body":"And great glasses and a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1481.03,"endTime":1483.73,"body":"really killer haircut actually."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1483.82,"endTime":1484.27,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1484.72,"endTime":1485.5,"body":"Wait, where were we going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1484.72,"endTime":1485.5,"body":"with that?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1488.86,"endTime":1490.84,"body":"What advice would you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1488.86,"endTime":1490.84,"body":"give to someone who's in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1490.87,"endTime":1492.67,"body":"position of similar to your mom?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1493.42,"endTime":1495.76,"body":"Because well, let me just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1493.42,"endTime":1495.76,"body":"like, because your mom's not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1495.76,"endTime":1496.57,"body":"trying to hurt your feelings."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1496.0,"endTime":1499.51,"body":"No, not at all. It's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1496.0,"endTime":1499.51,"body":"like she's trying her hardest,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1499.54,"endTime":1504.43,"body":"honestly. As I can, I can see"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1499.54,"endTime":1504.43,"body":"exactly how hard she's trying."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1504.43,"endTime":1507.1,"body":"And it's a lot like she's--even"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1504.43,"endTime":1507.1,"body":"now she's like, trying to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1507.1,"endTime":1509.11,"body":"understand me, she's trying to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1507.1,"endTime":1509.11,"body":"be involved in my life, she'll"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1509.11,"endTime":1512.02,"body":"ask me questions more than she"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1509.11,"endTime":1512.02,"body":"has in the past. So like, I can"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1512.02,"endTime":1515.08,"body":"tell she's trying, it's just,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1512.02,"endTime":1515.08,"body":"it's still really hard for her,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1515.11,"endTime":1518.71,"body":"right. And so, honestly, like,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1515.11,"endTime":1518.71,"body":"one of the biggest piece of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1518.71,"endTime":1522.13,"body":"advice I'd give is like, do your"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1518.71,"endTime":1522.13,"body":"own work, so to speak, like so"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1522.13,"endTime":1524.68,"body":"that you can be there for the"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1522.13,"endTime":1524.68,"body":"people in your family that you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1524.68,"endTime":1527.98,"body":"care about, right? Is if you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1524.68,"endTime":1527.98,"body":"have things that you're trying"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1527.98,"endTime":1530.56,"body":"to work through, if you have a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1527.98,"endTime":1530.56,"body":"grieving process, you need to go"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1530.56,"endTime":1532.33,"body":"through because and that's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1530.56,"endTime":1532.33,"body":"normal. And that's good. And"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1532.33,"endTime":1535.63,"body":"that's fine to do that work, you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1532.33,"endTime":1535.63,"body":"know, whether that's going to a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1535.63,"endTime":1537.82,"body":"therapist of your own, so you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1535.63,"endTime":1537.82,"body":"can kind of really hash that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1537.82,"endTime":1540.43,"body":"out. Or whether that's just kind"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1537.82,"endTime":1540.43,"body":"of like really looking at"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1540.43,"endTime":1543.49,"body":"yourself writing about it, just"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1540.43,"endTime":1543.49,"body":"kind of whatever you need to do"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1543.49,"endTime":1546.31,"body":"to work through that so that you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1543.49,"endTime":1546.31,"body":"can be present and with your"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1546.31,"endTime":1550.33,"body":"loved one, I think, I don't"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1546.31,"endTime":1550.33,"body":"know. That that is what I would"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1550.33,"endTime":1553.81,"body":"really like, right? Is is to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1550.33,"endTime":1553.81,"body":"have that. So I don't have to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1553.81,"endTime":1557.11,"body":"hold it when I'm talking with my"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1553.81,"endTime":1557.11,"body":"mom. If that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1557.14,"endTime":1557.5,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1557.53,"endTime":1559.42,"body":"Because there are times"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1557.53,"endTime":1559.42,"body":"where I have to, and that's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1559.42,"endTime":1562.81,"body":"okay, I can do that. And most of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1559.42,"endTime":1562.81,"body":"the time, and if I can't, then I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1562.81,"endTime":1565.57,"body":"set a boundary. But but yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1562.81,"endTime":1565.57,"body":"think I think that's what I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1565.57,"endTime":1567.55,"body":"would recommend is make sure"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1565.57,"endTime":1567.55,"body":"you're doing your own work and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1567.55,"endTime":1570.19,"body":"looking at that, because it's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1567.55,"endTime":1570.19,"body":"it's okay to feel those things."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1570.22,"endTime":1571.54,"body":"But, you know, work on that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1571.57,"endTime":1573.52,"body":"So are you saying that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1571.57,"endTime":1573.52,"body":"parents and family shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1573.52,"endTime":1576.04,"body":"feel guilt that they're feeling"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1573.52,"endTime":1576.04,"body":"disappointed in their child's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1576.04,"endTime":1576.61,"body":"choices?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1576.63,"endTime":1579.84,"body":"No, I think when you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1576.63,"endTime":1579.84,"body":"have values that you believe are"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1579.84,"endTime":1583.74,"body":"going to make people happy,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1579.84,"endTime":1583.74,"body":"right? When you have things that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1583.74,"endTime":1586.83,"body":"you're like, well, I want this"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1583.74,"endTime":1586.83,"body":"life for you, because it's I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1586.83,"endTime":1589.98,"body":"believe that this life would"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1586.83,"endTime":1589.98,"body":"bring you a lot of joy. And then"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1589.98,"endTime":1592.89,"body":"that that individual in your"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1589.98,"endTime":1592.89,"body":"family doesn't go down that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1592.89,"endTime":1595.05,"body":"path? Well, yeah, clearly,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1592.89,"endTime":1595.05,"body":"you're going to be like, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1595.5,"endTime":1597.81,"body":"you know, maybe you're going to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1595.5,"endTime":1597.81,"body":"be maybe it's gonna be harder,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1597.81,"endTime":1600.21,"body":"or maybe you're going to suffer"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1597.81,"endTime":1600.21,"body":"more.\" And that's hard for a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1600.21,"endTime":1603.3,"body":"parent to see. It's hard to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1600.21,"endTime":1603.3,"body":"watch a child do something that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1603.36,"endTime":1606.9,"body":"the parent feels is going to be"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1603.36,"endTime":1606.9,"body":"more difficult for them. And"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1606.9,"endTime":1609.42,"body":"whether that is or not, it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1606.9,"endTime":1609.42,"body":"doesn't really matter. Because"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1609.42,"endTime":1611.73,"body":"at the end of the day, that's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1609.42,"endTime":1611.73,"body":"how the parent feels is like I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1611.73,"endTime":1615.87,"body":"have this this vision for you,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1611.73,"endTime":1615.87,"body":"so to speak. Because everybody"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1615.87,"endTime":1618.27,"body":"does that, right? Like I have"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1615.87,"endTime":1618.27,"body":"the same things for my friends"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1618.27,"endTime":1621.81,"body":"and my family members, I want"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1618.27,"endTime":1621.81,"body":"the best for them. And and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1621.81,"endTime":1623.85,"body":"sometimes I get in my own head"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1621.81,"endTime":1623.85,"body":"about what I believe that would"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1623.85,"endTime":1627.72,"body":"look like. So yeah, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1623.85,"endTime":1627.72,"body":"normal to have an expectation"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1627.81,"endTime":1629.88,"body":"and have that expectation be"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1627.81,"endTime":1629.88,"body":"burst because it's not your"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1629.88,"endTime":1634.53,"body":"choice. And then be disappointed"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1629.88,"endTime":1634.53,"body":"because, you know, that's no"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1634.53,"endTime":1637.98,"body":"longer the path that they're on."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1634.53,"endTime":1637.98,"body":"And that's okay. And they're"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1637.98,"endTime":1640.38,"body":"probably even happier for it."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1637.98,"endTime":1640.38,"body":"But, but there's still that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1640.38,"endTime":1643.14,"body":"dissonance, right. And so you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1640.38,"endTime":1643.14,"body":"need to you need time to grieve"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1643.17,"endTime":1646.35,"body":"that that other life that you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1643.17,"endTime":1646.35,"body":"had imagined, so that you can be"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1646.74,"endTime":1649.83,"body":"there with them in this life in"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1646.74,"endTime":1649.83,"body":"this path, right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1650.04,"endTime":1652.05,"body":"So as we're talking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1650.04,"endTime":1652.05,"body":"about this, I'm realizing that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1652.05,"endTime":1654.42,"body":"I've been on the other side of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1652.05,"endTime":1654.42,"body":"this coin, where I've been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1654.42,"endTime":1656.31,"body":"disappointed in somebody else's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1654.42,"endTime":1656.31,"body":"life choices."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1656.34,"endTime":1656.94,"body":"Definitely,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1657.05,"endTime":1659.48,"body":"Like quite a few times."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1657.05,"endTime":1659.48,"body":"But the most dramatic one is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1659.51,"endTime":1661.97,"body":"with my dad. My parents got"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1659.51,"endTime":1661.97,"body":"divorced when I was in high"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1661.97,"endTime":1665.12,"body":"school, and my dad ended up"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1661.97,"endTime":1665.12,"body":"leaving the church and he moved"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1665.12,"endTime":1668.27,"body":"away. And I was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1665.12,"endTime":1668.27,"body":"disappointed. I was angry, I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1668.27,"endTime":1671.18,"body":"frustrated, like, there were a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1668.27,"endTime":1671.18,"body":"lot of ways that he was living"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1671.18,"endTime":1676.07,"body":"that were not congruent with my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1671.18,"endTime":1676.07,"body":"values. And I was like, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1676.07,"endTime":1679.25,"body":"messy, it was really, really,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1676.07,"endTime":1679.25,"body":"really messy without getting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1679.25,"endTime":1683.0,"body":"into any details. And over the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1679.25,"endTime":1683.0,"body":"course of a couple of years, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1683.0,"endTime":1688.04,"body":"kind of got to the point where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1683.0,"endTime":1688.04,"body":"we were either--there was like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1688.04,"endTime":1692.3,"body":"discord in the present. Or we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1688.04,"endTime":1692.3,"body":"were living in the past. Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1692.3,"endTime":1696.11,"body":"the only things we could talk"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1692.3,"endTime":1696.11,"body":"about that were, like, safe were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1696.11,"endTime":1698.63,"body":"things like, \"Oh, dad, remember"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1696.11,"endTime":1698.63,"body":"when I was six, and we went to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1698.63,"endTime":1702.29,"body":"ride horses and did this?\" or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1698.63,"endTime":1702.29,"body":"whatever. But anytime, like, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1702.29,"endTime":1705.98,"body":"were dealing with the president,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1702.29,"endTime":1705.98,"body":"like, he was doing things that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1705.98,"endTime":1708.11,"body":"didn't like, and I was doing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1705.98,"endTime":1708.11,"body":"things that he didn't like, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1708.14,"endTime":1713.0,"body":"and like it was just like--whoa."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1708.14,"endTime":1713.0,"body":"So I and honestly that that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1713.0,"endTime":1717.38,"body":"continued, like, at least for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1713.0,"endTime":1717.38,"body":"me. And I think probably for him"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1717.38,"endTime":1720.32,"body":"a little bit. I don't know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1717.38,"endTime":1720.32,"body":"not gonna say how he felt but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1720.32,"endTime":1723.29,"body":"like, up to like, through my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1720.32,"endTime":1723.29,"body":"mission, I got home from my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1723.29,"endTime":1725.63,"body":"mission. And I was like, oh my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1723.29,"endTime":1725.63,"body":"gosh, like, I'm still in this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1725.63,"endTime":1727.85,"body":"awkward situation with my dad,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1725.63,"endTime":1727.85,"body":"where I'm like, I don't know who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1727.85,"endTime":1730.28,"body":"you are. I don't like the way"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1727.85,"endTime":1730.28,"body":"you're living. And the only"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1730.28,"endTime":1732.35,"body":"things we can connect on are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1730.28,"endTime":1732.35,"body":"things that happened 10 years"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1732.35,"endTime":1736.73,"body":"ago, like this is awful. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1732.35,"endTime":1736.73,"body":"realized that like, by like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1736.73,"endTime":1739.58,"body":"superimposing my values on him,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1736.73,"endTime":1739.58,"body":"but like expecting him to be a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1739.58,"endTime":1744.92,"body":"certain way in order for him to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1739.58,"endTime":1744.92,"body":"like, earn my love. Or even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1744.92,"endTime":1747.11,"body":"this, like I was like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1744.92,"endTime":1747.11,"body":"want to condone what he's doing."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1747.17,"endTime":1749.36,"body":"I kind of just threw all of that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1747.17,"endTime":1749.36,"body":"out one day. And I was like, You"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1749.36,"endTime":1752.18,"body":"know what, I'm going to start a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1749.36,"endTime":1752.18,"body":"new relationship and see who my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1752.18,"endTime":1756.41,"body":"dad is now, and be okay with,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1752.18,"endTime":1756.41,"body":"like--I had, like, old dad what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1756.41,"endTime":1759.26,"body":"I used to consider, like, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1756.41,"endTime":1759.26,"body":"way he used to be, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1759.26,"endTime":1761.27,"body":"I was like, that's awesome."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1759.26,"endTime":1761.27,"body":"Like, I had a really beautiful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1761.27,"endTime":1764.39,"body":"relationship with my dad. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1761.27,"endTime":1764.39,"body":"like, now I don't so like, some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1764.39,"endTime":1767.12,"body":"of this is on me, like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1764.39,"endTime":1767.12,"body":"gonna have to like, make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1767.12,"endTime":1769.55,"body":"adjustments to the way I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1767.12,"endTime":1769.55,"body":"approaching this relationship."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1770.3,"endTime":1773.03,"body":"And really, all I did was just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1770.3,"endTime":1773.03,"body":"start being interested in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1773.03,"endTime":1776.93,"body":"things he was interested in. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1773.03,"endTime":1776.93,"body":"like the people he was with,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1776.93,"endTime":1779.57,"body":"like the girls, he was going on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1776.93,"endTime":1779.57,"body":"dates with that, like, weren't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1779.57,"endTime":1782.27,"body":"my mom, and you know, and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1779.57,"endTime":1782.27,"body":"like, still really upset about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1782.27,"endTime":1784.97,"body":"that and was like, you know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1782.27,"endTime":1784.97,"body":"what? Like, my parents got"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1784.97,"endTime":1787.85,"body":"divorced. And I'm gonna get over"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1784.97,"endTime":1787.85,"body":"it and see who my dad is now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1788.06,"endTime":1792.95,"body":"And as I kind of like, was more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1788.06,"endTime":1792.95,"body":"involved in his current life, he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1792.95,"endTime":1795.23,"body":"started being involved in my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1792.95,"endTime":1795.23,"body":"current life and we ended up"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1795.23,"endTime":1797.96,"body":"like learning about each other."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1795.23,"endTime":1797.96,"body":"And then there were still times"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1797.96,"endTime":1800.99,"body":"where we connected on the past"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1797.96,"endTime":1800.99,"body":"but it was like like a line that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1800.99,"endTime":1803.84,"body":"continued into the future"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1800.99,"endTime":1803.84,"body":"because like, it wasn't just so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1803.84,"endTime":1806.93,"body":"awkward. I don't know. And I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1803.84,"endTime":1806.93,"body":"seen this happen with like other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1806.93,"endTime":1809.36,"body":"like extended family members who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1806.93,"endTime":1809.36,"body":"have left the church and like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1809.9,"endTime":1814.37,"body":"the way that people deal with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1809.9,"endTime":1814.37,"body":"that can either be like, \"Hey,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1814.4,"endTime":1816.59,"body":"how's your life? Are you happy?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1814.4,"endTime":1816.59,"body":"What are you doing?\" And just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1816.59,"endTime":1820.34,"body":"like make things normal, or it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1816.59,"endTime":1820.34,"body":"can be like, what is like--if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.46,"endTime":1822.68,"body":"you go into a relationship and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.46,"endTime":1822.68,"body":"you're like, what a shame that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1822.68,"endTime":1825.44,"body":"they're different from me. What"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1822.68,"endTime":1825.44,"body":"a shame that they left the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1825.44,"endTime":1827.75,"body":"church, well, then you're going"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1825.44,"endTime":1827.75,"body":"to have a shameful relationship"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1827.75,"endTime":1830.33,"body":"and you're not going to be proud"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1827.75,"endTime":1830.33,"body":"of that relationship. There's my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1830.33,"endTime":1832.79,"body":"soapbox, hope you're okay with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1830.33,"endTime":1832.79,"body":"everything I said, Dad."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1834.55,"endTime":1838.33,"body":"Well, I've just learned"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1834.55,"endTime":1838.33,"body":"like I, you always tell me how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1838.33,"endTime":1842.41,"body":"self righteous I am, Charlie."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1838.33,"endTime":1842.41,"body":"And it's true. And I am trying"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1842.41,"endTime":1844.78,"body":"to be better, but I'm still far"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1842.41,"endTime":1844.78,"body":"from perfect in it. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1844.78,"endTime":1846.97,"body":"remember like, when I started"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1844.78,"endTime":1846.97,"body":"the support group in Tucson,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1846.97,"endTime":1849.4,"body":"like my goal was to keep"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1846.97,"endTime":1849.4,"body":"everyone in the church. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1849.4,"endTime":1852.46,"body":"was wildly unsuccessful. Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1849.4,"endTime":1852.46,"body":"keeping people in the church."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1852.49,"endTime":1856.87,"body":"imagine love without an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1852.49,"endTime":1856.87,"body":"agenda. Like, Oh, my gosh, how"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1857.11,"endTime":1860.86,"body":"how beautiful could the world"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1857.11,"endTime":1860.86,"body":"be? If we loved people without a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1860.86,"endTime":1864.7,"body":"secret agenda? That'd be so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1860.86,"endTime":1864.7,"body":"nice. Ben you got to work on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1864.7,"endTime":1864.91,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1867.12,"endTime":1869.64,"body":"Building off of that great"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1867.12,"endTime":1869.64,"body":"comment, I had, I had this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1869.64,"endTime":1872.67,"body":"specific agenda. And then like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1869.64,"endTime":1872.67,"body":"as the years went on, I had to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1872.67,"endTime":1875.91,"body":"like, realize that wasn't the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1872.67,"endTime":1875.91,"body":"right agenda. Like my agenda,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1875.94,"endTime":1878.31,"body":"like, like you said, was like to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1875.94,"endTime":1878.31,"body":"love people and be with them and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1878.31,"endTime":1880.98,"body":"be like, cheer for them when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1878.31,"endTime":1880.98,"body":"they were happy. And, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1880.98,"endTime":1882.75,"body":"whatever they like, whenever"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1880.98,"endTime":1882.75,"body":"good, was happy in their life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1882.75,"endTime":1884.97,"body":"like to be happy for them and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1882.75,"endTime":1884.97,"body":"want to hear about it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1884.97,"endTime":1887.25,"body":"Yeah. If your reason"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1884.97,"endTime":1887.25,"body":"for reaching out to someone and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1887.25,"endTime":1893.73,"body":"so they come back to church..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1887.25,"endTime":1893.73,"body":"that sucks, you know?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1893.79,"endTime":1895.17,"body":"Well, then it's all"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1893.79,"endTime":1895.17,"body":"about you. Right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1895.17,"endTime":1895.41,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1895.68,"endTime":1896.85,"body":"It's not about them at"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1895.68,"endTime":1896.85,"body":"all."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1897.21,"endTime":1897.63,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1898.53,"endTime":1902.04,"body":"It's all about what you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1898.53,"endTime":1902.04,"body":"can do. And that's all that's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1902.04,"endTime":1904.86,"body":"all about how that makes you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1902.04,"endTime":1904.86,"body":"feel not about where they're at"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1904.86,"endTime":1907.2,"body":"or what they want, or what's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1904.86,"endTime":1907.2,"body":"going to be best for them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1907.23,"endTime":1908.88,"body":"Right. And I keep"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1907.23,"endTime":1908.88,"body":"thinking about this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1908.88,"endTime":1911.52,"body":"juxtaposition where you were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1908.88,"endTime":1911.52,"body":"that you say you were the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1911.52,"endTime":1915.54,"body":"happiest that you'd been. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1911.52,"endTime":1915.54,"body":"like people were like, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1916.17,"endTime":1918.66,"body":"she's sad. And she's on a bad"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1916.17,"endTime":1918.66,"body":"path.\" And you're like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1919.05,"endTime":1921.06,"body":"\"Actually, I'm doing really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1919.05,"endTime":1921.06,"body":"well.\" Like, that's just so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1921.06,"endTime":1924.63,"body":"like, mind boggling. But that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1921.06,"endTime":1924.63,"body":"juxtaposition the contrast"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1924.63,"endTime":1928.95,"body":"there. And yeah, like, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1924.63,"endTime":1928.95,"body":"what a beautiful illustration of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1928.95,"endTime":1932.58,"body":"how we should, like, believe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1928.95,"endTime":1932.58,"body":"what people say, if you're like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1932.61,"endTime":1935.76,"body":"\"Hey, I'm really happy, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1932.61,"endTime":1935.76,"body":"feel better.\" And it's like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1936.12,"endTime":1939.15,"body":"\"Oh, you're not really happy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1936.12,"endTime":1939.15,"body":"You don't really feel better.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1939.15,"endTime":1941.67,"body":"But you're like, \"Yes, I do!\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1939.15,"endTime":1941.67,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1942.32,"endTime":1945.02,"body":"Right? And I mean, kind"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1942.32,"endTime":1945.02,"body":"of going off what you said"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1945.02,"endTime":1946.97,"body":"earlier, I've been in the"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1945.02,"endTime":1946.97,"body":"position where I've been on the"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1946.97,"endTime":1949.22,"body":"other side of that, where I'm"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1946.97,"endTime":1949.22,"body":"like, \"No, you can't be happy,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1949.22,"endTime":1952.67,"body":"because you're not living XYZ"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1949.22,"endTime":1952.67,"body":"ways.\" Right? Like, I've"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1952.67,"endTime":1955.79,"body":"definitely been on the flip side"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1952.67,"endTime":1955.79,"body":"of that, too, where people you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1955.79,"endTime":1957.5,"body":"know, and so it's been"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1955.79,"endTime":1957.5,"body":"interesting to kind of go"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1957.5,"endTime":1959.45,"body":"through this journey in my life"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1957.5,"endTime":1959.45,"body":"and be like, oh, I really need"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1959.45,"endTime":1961.64,"body":"to like believe people, when"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":1959.45,"endTime":1961.64,"body":"they tell me things."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1961.76,"endTime":1963.98,"body":"Do you think taking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1961.76,"endTime":1963.98,"body":"that approach will lead to like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1964.58,"endTime":1968.54,"body":"a free for all, or like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1964.58,"endTime":1968.54,"body":"decrease in moral values?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1968.66,"endTime":1971.06,"body":"Well, I know I've quoted my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1968.66,"endTime":1971.06,"body":"dad saying this before, but he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1971.12,"endTime":1973.22,"body":"says people are gonna do what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1971.12,"endTime":1973.22,"body":"they want to do, whether you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1973.22,"endTime":1975.53,"body":"like it or not, but you get to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1973.22,"endTime":1975.53,"body":"choose how much you'll be in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1975.53,"endTime":1979.58,"body":"their life. And I think like, my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1975.53,"endTime":1979.58,"body":"being disappointed someone's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1979.58,"endTime":1982.07,"body":"choice has never made them"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1979.58,"endTime":1982.07,"body":"change their choice."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1982.67,"endTime":1986.96,"body":"Hmm, yeah. So well, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1982.67,"endTime":1986.96,"body":"feel like there's like this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1987.02,"endTime":1990.89,"body":"theme in our culture of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1987.02,"endTime":1990.89,"body":"we've talked about this before."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1990.89,"endTime":1993.5,"body":"\"Love the sinner--hate the sin,\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1990.89,"endTime":1993.5,"body":"or like, \"I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1993.5,"endTime":1996.65,"body":"condone what you're doing.\" But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1993.5,"endTime":1996.65,"body":"like, I don't know, didn't you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1996.65,"endTime":1997.94,"body":"do a TED talk on that, Ben?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1997.97,"endTime":1998.6,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1998.0,"endTime":2001.3,"body":"You want to share some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1998.0,"endTime":2001.3,"body":"thought? Ideas that people are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2001.3,"endTime":2001.96,"body":"supposed to pay for."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2002.59,"endTime":2004.99,"body":"It'll be free on YouTube,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2002.59,"endTime":2004.99,"body":"like two weeks after it airs,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2005.56,"endTime":2007.33,"body":"and the TED Talk is being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2005.56,"endTime":2007.33,"body":"released, like at the end of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2007.33,"endTime":2007.84,"body":"March. So..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2008.65,"endTime":2009.97,"body":"So you're just gonna"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2008.65,"endTime":2009.97,"body":"make people wait?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2011.02,"endTime":2012.91,"body":"Well, this will probably be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2011.02,"endTime":2012.91,"body":"released after the TED talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2012.91,"endTime":2013.39,"body":"comes out."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2013.78,"endTime":2014.11,"body":"Oh."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2014.32,"endTime":2017.47,"body":"So you can just watch, type"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2014.32,"endTime":2017.47,"body":"TEDx Talk."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2018.76,"endTime":2021.13,"body":"If you're struggling"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2018.76,"endTime":2021.13,"body":"with that, watch Ben's TED Talk."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2021.069,"endTime":2023.619,"body":"No, but Well, what I did in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2021.069,"endTime":2023.619,"body":"that TED Talk, and I did this on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2023.619,"endTime":2026.889,"body":"purpose was--I told stories of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2023.619,"endTime":2026.889,"body":"people who thought that my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2024.03,"endTime":2027.81,"body":"Oh, that's nice."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2026.889,"endTime":2030.129,"body":"beliefs as a Latter-day Saint"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2026.889,"endTime":2030.129,"body":"were abhorrent, and how people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2030.129,"endTime":2033.099,"body":"like still loved me, even though"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2030.129,"endTime":2033.099,"body":"I was living the \"Latter-day Sa"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2033.099,"endTime":2036.549,"body":"nt lifestyle.\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2035.67,"endTime":2037.14,"body":"Yeah. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2035.67,"endTime":2037.14,"body":"stories I tell is...."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2037.38,"endTime":2038.19,"body":"You're so edgy."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2038.0,"endTime":2041.69,"body":"It is a bit edgy. I tell a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2038.0,"endTime":2041.69,"body":"story about going to this Pride"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2041.69,"endTime":2045.2,"body":"parade in Tucson. Yeah, in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2041.69,"endTime":2045.2,"body":"Tucson. And we were with Mormons"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2045.2,"endTime":2047.54,"body":"Building Bridges and like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2045.2,"endTime":2047.54,"body":"dressed up as you know, in our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2047.54,"endTime":2049.91,"body":"in our Sunday best. And I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2047.54,"endTime":2049.91,"body":"worried that people were like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2049.94,"endTime":2052.04,"body":"we're gonna hate us for being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2049.94,"endTime":2052.04,"body":"there. Because like, we belong"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2052.04,"endTime":2054.5,"body":"the least of any group there."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2052.04,"endTime":2054.5,"body":"But as we were walking down the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2054.5,"endTime":2057.2,"body":"street, and I was like holding"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2054.5,"endTime":2057.2,"body":"the banner, people were just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2057.2,"endTime":2059.99,"body":"like, \"The Mormons are here. The"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2057.2,"endTime":2059.99,"body":"Mormons are here.\" And they just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2059.99,"endTime":2062.18,"body":"like cheered and cheered and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2059.99,"endTime":2062.18,"body":"were like so glad that we were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2062.18,"endTime":2064.76,"body":"there. And then I remember at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2062.18,"endTime":2064.76,"body":"the end, like, like, one of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2064.76,"endTime":2066.56,"body":"organizers was taking a group"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2064.76,"endTime":2066.56,"body":"picture of us and she was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2066.59,"endTime":2069.14,"body":"\"Thank you. Thank you. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2066.59,"endTime":2069.14,"body":"for coming.\" And then my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2069.14,"endTime":2072.29,"body":"favorite line from the whole"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2069.14,"endTime":2072.29,"body":"talk. I say, \"I hope that anyone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2072.32,"endTime":2074.51,"body":"I hope that any LGBTQ person who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2072.32,"endTime":2074.51,"body":"attends a Latter-day Saint"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2074.51,"endTime":2076.64,"body":"congregation would feel as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2074.51,"endTime":2076.64,"body":"welcome there as I felt that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2076.64,"endTime":2080.69,"body":"that Pride parade. Yeah, because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2076.64,"endTime":2080.69,"body":"I mean, I really was like, so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2080.69,"endTime":2084.11,"body":"like, I was like, cheered for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2080.69,"endTime":2084.11,"body":"and praised for coming to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2084.11,"endTime":2086.54,"body":"pride praise of Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2084.11,"endTime":2086.54,"body":"Saints. And you know, shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2086.54,"endTime":2090.35,"body":"we like, cheer for and praise"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2086.54,"endTime":2090.35,"body":"like anyone who wants to do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2090.35,"endTime":2091.37,"body":"something good in their life?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2091.42,"endTime":2095.14,"body":"Yeah. We should be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2091.42,"endTime":2095.14,"body":"cheering for and praising LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2095.14,"endTime":2097.57,"body":"people that come to church and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2095.14,"endTime":2097.57,"body":"the ones that don't come to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2097.57,"endTime":2102.67,"body":"church too. Yeah, Just like we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2097.57,"endTime":2102.67,"body":"need a lot of cheer, cheer us"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2102.67,"endTime":2106.99,"body":"on, give us attention. That's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2102.67,"endTime":2106.99,"body":"why we come out. That's a joke."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2107.29,"endTime":2111.13,"body":"Yeah. So Jessica, I can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2107.29,"endTime":2111.13,"body":"imagine there are people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2111.13,"endTime":2113.11,"body":"listening to this, who, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2111.13,"endTime":2113.11,"body":"know, they're in a similar"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2113.11,"endTime":2115.51,"body":"situation to you like, they're,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2113.11,"endTime":2115.51,"body":"they're living their best life."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2115.51,"endTime":2117.94,"body":"They're thriving, they're really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2115.51,"endTime":2117.94,"body":"happy, but their family members"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2117.94,"endTime":2120.37,"body":"aren't happy with what's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2117.94,"endTime":2120.37,"body":"happening, what would you say to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2120.37,"endTime":2120.73,"body":"them?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2121.11,"endTime":2125.13,"body":"Have really good"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2121.11,"endTime":2125.13,"body":"friends. And just to be patient,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2125.16,"endTime":2128.46,"body":"I think, you know, there were a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2125.16,"endTime":2128.46,"body":"lot of times where like, before"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2128.46,"endTime":2131.46,"body":"I came out, I was so worried and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2128.46,"endTime":2131.46,"body":"so concerned about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2131.46,"endTime":2134.61,"body":"how certain family members of"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2131.46,"endTime":2134.61,"body":"mine would react and, and I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2134.61,"endTime":2138.36,"body":"really, I didn't have enough"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2134.61,"endTime":2138.36,"body":"faith in them to believe that"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2138.36,"endTime":2142.56,"body":"they would kind of take me and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2138.36,"endTime":2142.56,"body":"accept me for where I was at and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2142.56,"endTime":2146.19,"body":"who I am. But and then I never"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2142.56,"endTime":2146.19,"body":"would have guessed that, like"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2146.22,"endTime":2148.77,"body":"certain family members of mine"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2146.22,"endTime":2148.77,"body":"would also, you know, over this"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2148.77,"endTime":2152.4,"body":"past year have like grown a lot"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2148.77,"endTime":2152.4,"body":"too where like, my mom, like I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2152.4,"endTime":2155.31,"body":"said, she's worked really hard"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2152.4,"endTime":2155.31,"body":"to, I think, see me with where"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2155.31,"endTime":2159.27,"body":"I'm at. And so there has been a"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2155.31,"endTime":2159.27,"body":"lot of growth, and it's not"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2159.27,"endTime":2162.75,"body":"painful to talk to her anymore."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2159.27,"endTime":2162.75,"body":"Like, so there's like some"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2162.75,"endTime":2164.61,"body":"patience there and some"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2162.75,"endTime":2164.61,"body":"understanding that I think is"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2164.61,"endTime":2167.85,"body":"really important, and just to be"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2164.61,"endTime":2167.85,"body":"to continue to be yourself and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2167.85,"endTime":2171.84,"body":"know that like things will"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2167.85,"endTime":2171.84,"body":"change and happen in time. And"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2171.84,"endTime":2173.34,"body":"you just got to kind of give it"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2171.84,"endTime":2173.34,"body":"that time,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2173.49,"endTime":2176.34,"body":"Like the way circumstances"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2173.49,"endTime":2176.34,"body":"are now isn't how they're going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2176.34,"endTime":2176.97,"body":"to be in the future?"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2177.15,"endTime":2179.37,"body":"Not at all. Not at all."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2177.15,"endTime":2179.37,"body":"So..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2179.48,"endTime":2181.34,"body":"It seems like you've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2179.48,"endTime":2181.34,"body":"done a really good job not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2181.34,"endTime":2185.06,"body":"holding a grudge or being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2181.34,"endTime":2185.06,"body":"resentful about the way that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2185.06,"endTime":2187.67,"body":"some of your family members"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2185.06,"endTime":2187.67,"body":"initially reacted. But you've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2187.73,"endTime":2189.92,"body":"allowed them a space to grow."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2187.73,"endTime":2189.92,"body":"And you're like, okay, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2190.31,"endTime":2192.38,"body":"we're not there anymore. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2190.31,"endTime":2192.38,"body":"not going to hold that against"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2192.38,"endTime":2192.56,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2192.75,"endTime":2195.57,"body":"Oh, yeah, I mean, and I"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2192.75,"endTime":2195.57,"body":"like kind of I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2195.57,"endTime":2197.88,"body":"earlier, everyone's entitled to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2195.57,"endTime":2197.88,"body":"feel how they're going to feel"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2197.91,"endTime":2200.73,"body":"and, and I knew it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2197.91,"endTime":2200.73,"body":"malicious, right? Most of the"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2200.73,"endTime":2203.52,"body":"time when people hurt us, it's"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2200.73,"endTime":2203.52,"body":"never malicious. It's never with"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2203.52,"endTime":2206.61,"body":"the intent to hurt us. They're"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2203.52,"endTime":2206.61,"body":"just had to have these big"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2206.61,"endTime":2209.31,"body":"feelings, and they don't know"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2206.61,"endTime":2209.31,"body":"how to deal with them. And so"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2209.31,"endTime":2212.49,"body":"they take it out, and or they,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2209.31,"endTime":2212.49,"body":"they don't know how to express"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2212.49,"endTime":2215.52,"body":"it in ways that aren't hurtful."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2212.49,"endTime":2215.52,"body":"And the conflict arises when you"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2215.52,"endTime":2218.22,"body":"then take that personally, and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2215.52,"endTime":2218.22,"body":"then you take it upon yourself,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2218.22,"endTime":2221.37,"body":"like they really want to hurt"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2218.22,"endTime":2221.37,"body":"me. And I think that's rarely"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2221.37,"endTime":2224.01,"body":"ever the case when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2221.37,"endTime":2224.01,"body":"family members or loved ones,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2224.01,"endTime":2226.62,"body":"especially, is they, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2224.01,"endTime":2226.62,"body":"they're just trying to"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2226.62,"endTime":2229.2,"body":"understand. And so if you can"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2226.62,"endTime":2229.2,"body":"kind of take it that way and"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2229.2,"endTime":2231.87,"body":"take a step back and realize"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2229.2,"endTime":2231.87,"body":"it's not about you. It wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2231.87,"endTime":2236.16,"body":"about me, it was my mom had an"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2231.87,"endTime":2236.16,"body":"expectation, and it wasn't met."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2236.76,"endTime":2240.0,"body":"And she had to adjust to that."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2236.76,"endTime":2240.0,"body":"And I had allow her time to do"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2240.0,"endTime":2243.06,"body":"that. And, and then our"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2240.0,"endTime":2243.06,"body":"relationship can....."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2244.77,"endTime":2248.13,"body":"I just as we were talking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2244.77,"endTime":2248.13,"body":"about my TED talk, I just keep"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2248.13,"endTime":2251.52,"body":"remembering these two lesbians"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2248.13,"endTime":2251.52,"body":"that I lived within Tucson, who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2251.55,"endTime":2254.73,"body":"were kind of concerned at first"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2251.55,"endTime":2254.73,"body":"that I was a member of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2254.73,"endTime":2257.25,"body":"church still, but then like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2254.73,"endTime":2257.25,"body":"just came to, like, love and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2257.25,"endTime":2259.83,"body":"accept me and I haven't lived"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2257.25,"endTime":2259.83,"body":"with them since like, 2017."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2259.83,"endTime":2261.51,"body":"Like, it's been a long time"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2259.83,"endTime":2261.51,"body":"since we've lived together. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2261.63,"endTime":2265.71,"body":"the homeowner, she calls me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2261.63,"endTime":2265.71,"body":"every couple months. And every"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2265.71,"endTime":2268.83,"body":"time we talk, she tells me how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2265.71,"endTime":2268.83,"body":"proud she is of me. Like she's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2268.83,"endTime":2271.29,"body":"just always, \"Ben. I'm just so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2268.83,"endTime":2271.29,"body":"proud of you and all that you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2271.29,"endTime":2274.5,"body":"doing.\" And you know, I know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2271.29,"endTime":2274.5,"body":"that when we first met, she was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2274.5,"endTime":2276.57,"body":"like, \"Just get out of that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2274.5,"endTime":2276.57,"body":"bigoted, homophobic church and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2276.57,"endTime":2279.18,"body":"just live your life.\" And now"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2276.57,"endTime":2279.18,"body":"we're at a place where she and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2279.21,"endTime":2281.4,"body":"that's that phase in last very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2279.21,"endTime":2281.4,"body":"long, she was like, \"Ben, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2281.4,"endTime":2284.28,"body":"just so proud of you and what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2281.4,"endTime":2284.28,"body":"you're doing.\" And I just wish"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2284.28,"endTime":2286.38,"body":"everyone could like have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2284.28,"endTime":2286.38,"body":"lesbians like that in their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2286.38,"endTime":2289.53,"body":"life. Or just people like that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2286.38,"endTime":2289.53,"body":"in their life. Who just like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2289.53,"endTime":2291.0,"body":"call you up every couple of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2289.53,"endTime":2291.0,"body":"months and say, \"I'm just so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2291.0,"endTime":2292.05,"body":"proud of you what you're doing.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2292.83,"endTime":2294.69,"body":"I wish everyone can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2292.83,"endTime":2294.69,"body":"have a lesbian in their life."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2295.68,"endTime":2296.79,"body":"I mean, lesbians are"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2295.68,"endTime":2296.79,"body":"great."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2296.79,"endTime":2298.35,"body":"Yeah, everyone probably"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2296.79,"endTime":2298.35,"body":"does."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2298.38,"endTime":2298.74,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2299.01,"endTime":2299.7,"body":"I'm sure we do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2299.87,"endTime":2301.58,"body":"Oh, that's nice. Now"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2299.87,"endTime":2301.58,"body":"I'm thinking about all the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2301.58,"endTime":2309.26,"body":"lesbians in my life. So many to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2301.58,"endTime":2309.26,"body":"choose from. But also, where are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2309.26,"endTime":2309.56,"body":"they?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2311.48,"endTime":2312.89,"body":"Listen to that episode with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2311.48,"endTime":2312.89,"body":"Sammy Taylor."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2314.42,"endTime":2316.46,"body":"Alright, well, Jessica,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2314.42,"endTime":2316.46,"body":"thanks so much for being on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2316.46,"endTime":2318.8,"body":"today and for sharing some of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2316.46,"endTime":2318.8,"body":"these like really personal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2318.8,"endTime":2321.92,"body":"things. I applaud you for your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2318.8,"endTime":2321.92,"body":"courage and your efforts and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2321.92,"endTime":2325.94,"body":"also like your forgiving heart,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2321.92,"endTime":2325.94,"body":"and your beautiful eyes."},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2327.08,"endTime":2328.22,"body":"I worked really hard on"},{"speaker":"Jessica","startTime":2327.08,"endTime":2328.22,"body":"those."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2328.21,"endTime":2331.99,"body":"And thank you for all the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2328.21,"endTime":2331.99,"body":"candy and veggie straws and Pop"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2331.99,"endTime":2338.29,"body":"Tarts. Thank you for joining us"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2331.99,"endTime":2338.29,"body":"today. If you've enjoyed this or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2338.29,"endTime":2340.99,"body":"other episodes, please consider"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2338.29,"endTime":2340.99,"body":"leaving a review, following us o"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2340.99,"endTime":2344.14,"body":"Instagram or Facebook at Quest"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2340.99,"endTime":2344.14,"body":"ons from the Closet or sharing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2344.14,"endTime":2346.69,"body":"the podcast with someone you l"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2344.14,"endTime":2346.69,"body":"ve. And as always, please reme"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2346.69,"endTime":2348.55,"body":"ber that we do not represent"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2346.69,"endTime":2348.55,"body":"the Church of Jesus Chris"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2348.55,"endTime":2351.13,"body":"of Latter-day Saints or Bri"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2348.55,"endTime":2351.13,"body":"ham Young University. We're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2351.13,"endTime":2353.29,"body":"not trying to be prescriptiv"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2351.13,"endTime":2353.29,"body":"or tell anyone what to thin"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2353.29,"endTime":2353.77,"body":"or what to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2354.57,"endTime":2356.25,"body":"You heard three"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2354.57,"endTime":2356.25,"body":"perspectives and there are many,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2356.25,"endTime":2358.92,"body":"many more. We encourage you to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2356.25,"endTime":2358.92,"body":"listen to other voices and hear"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2358.92,"endTime":2361.62,"body":"a wide variety of experiences."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2358.92,"endTime":2361.62,"body":"If you would like to submit a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2361.62,"endTime":2364.26,"body":"question or share a comment"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2361.62,"endTime":2364.26,"body":"about today's episode, you can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2364.26,"endTime":2366.87,"body":"email us at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2364.26,"endTime":2366.87,"body":"questionsfromthecloset@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2367.17,"endTime":2367.98,"body":"Until next time..."}]}