{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2.1,"endTime":4.32,"body":"Welcome to Questions"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2.1,"endTime":4.32,"body":"from the Closet. I'm Charlie"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4.32,"endTime":4.71,"body":"Bird."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4.77,"endTime":7.44,"body":"And I'm Ben Schilaty. Each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4.77,"endTime":7.44,"body":"episode we discuss a question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":7.44,"endTime":10.11,"body":"that we commonly get asked as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":7.44,"endTime":10.11,"body":"LGBTQ Latter-day Saints."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":10.0,"endTime":11.98,"body":"We're not trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":10.0,"endTime":11.98,"body":"answer this question or come to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.98,"endTime":14.74,"body":"a consensus but simply sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.98,"endTime":14.74,"body":"our perspectives. Today's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":14.74,"endTime":17.02,"body":"question is, what does it mean"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":14.74,"endTime":17.02,"body":"to be non binary?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":17.35,"endTime":19.36,"body":"Charlie and I are not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":17.35,"endTime":19.36,"body":"terribly diverse. We share many"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":19.36,"endTime":22.21,"body":"opinions and life experiences."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":19.36,"endTime":22.21,"body":"For example, we both love"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":22.21,"endTime":22.81,"body":"attention."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.9,"endTime":24.97,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.9,"endTime":24.97,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":24.97,"endTime":27.19,"body":"example, we like different kinds"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":24.97,"endTime":27.19,"body":"of attention."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":27.28,"endTime":28.9,"body":"So what kind of attention"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":27.28,"endTime":28.9,"body":"do you like, Charlie?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":29.26,"endTime":34.72,"body":"I like public praise."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":29.26,"endTime":34.72,"body":"Ben I feel like you like when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":34.72,"endTime":37.69,"body":"people individually reach out to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":34.72,"endTime":37.69,"body":"you and tell you how great you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":37.69,"endTime":37.96,"body":"are."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":37.99,"endTime":38.68,"body":"Oh, I love that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":38.92,"endTime":40.51,"body":"I don't really like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":38.92,"endTime":40.51,"body":"that. That stresses me out. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":40.51,"endTime":44.65,"body":"just want to be like performing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":40.51,"endTime":44.65,"body":"on stage. I want like masses,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":44.8,"endTime":48.1,"body":"like fans screaming my name and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":44.8,"endTime":48.1,"body":"clapping for me and applauding"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":48.16,"endTime":52.6,"body":"but after that, like I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":48.16,"endTime":52.6,"body":"want to talk to them. But you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":52.6,"endTime":55.15,"body":"want like a hordes of people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":52.6,"endTime":55.15,"body":"coming to you individually and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":55.15,"endTime":56.23,"body":"be like, \"You changed my life.\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":56.0,"endTime":59.24,"body":"No, not hordes. But just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":56.0,"endTime":59.24,"body":"like, if someone's like, \"Ben,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":59.27,"endTime":61.55,"body":"thank you for what you said. It"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":59.27,"endTime":61.55,"body":"was really meaningful to me\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":61.55,"endTime":62.99,"body":"like, Oh, thank you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":63.2,"endTime":65.48,"body":"That's nice. Well, one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":63.2,"endTime":65.48,"body":"time we were all at lunch with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.48,"endTime":68.93,"body":"some friends. And someone was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.48,"endTime":68.93,"body":"like, \"Who likes attention more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":68.93,"endTime":69.92,"body":"Ben or Charlie?\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":70.22,"endTime":71.36,"body":"And we were like, uhhhh."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":71.66,"endTime":75.14,"body":"Like, everyone there"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":71.66,"endTime":75.14,"body":"was like, uhhh we don't really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":75.14,"endTime":75.59,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":75.83,"endTime":76.88,"body":"But probably Charlie."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":76.91,"endTime":77.72,"body":"Probably you."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":77.9,"endTime":79.79,"body":"Well, who knows? But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":77.9,"endTime":79.79,"body":"there's a kind of attention I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.79,"endTime":83.0,"body":"don't like. I don't like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":79.79,"endTime":83.0,"body":"birthday attention or like, or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":83.0,"endTime":85.85,"body":"like the idea of like wedding"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":83.0,"endTime":85.85,"body":"attention. Just sounds awful to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":85.85,"endTime":86.3,"body":"me, too."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":86.51,"endTime":88.88,"body":"I just, I don't really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":86.51,"endTime":88.88,"body":"know if I can say if I like that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":88.88,"endTime":90.68,"body":"or not. I feel like that's the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":88.88,"endTime":90.68,"body":"kind you would like though"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":90.68,"endTime":92.24,"body":"because there's like a receiving"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":90.68,"endTime":92.24,"body":"line."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":92.3,"endTime":95.12,"body":"Yeah, but it's just like a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":92.3,"endTime":95.12,"body":"lot of small talk repeatedly."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":95.12,"endTime":97.46,"body":"I hate small talk."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":95.12,"endTime":97.46,"body":"Small talk's tough."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":97.49,"endTime":100.61,"body":"Yeah. And birthday. Like I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":97.49,"endTime":100.61,"body":"want like attention for like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":100.61,"endTime":102.65,"body":"something I did not something my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":100.61,"endTime":102.65,"body":"mom did."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":102.68,"endTime":105.17,"body":"Ben wants accolades."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":102.68,"endTime":105.17,"body":"And I want followers."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":105.2,"endTime":106.94,"body":"Yeah, exactly. That's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":105.2,"endTime":106.94,"body":"exactly right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":106.94,"endTime":107.96,"body":"We've cracked the code."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":109.13,"endTime":111.47,"body":"So we would like to provide"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":109.13,"endTime":111.47,"body":"a variety of voices and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":111.47,"endTime":113.54,"body":"perspectives. So today, we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":111.47,"endTime":113.54,"body":"joined by Bobby."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":113.81,"endTime":118.01,"body":"Hi, I'm Bobbi. I grew up"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":113.81,"endTime":118.01,"body":"in Singapore and I have lived in"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":118.01,"endTime":122.99,"body":"the US for the last 10 years. I"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":118.01,"endTime":122.99,"body":"am Chinese Singaporean, I"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":122.99,"endTime":129.62,"body":"identify as a gender, and I go"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":122.99,"endTime":129.62,"body":"by, they/them pronouns. I am now"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":129.62,"endTime":135.11,"body":"happily married to a lovely"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":129.62,"endTime":135.11,"body":"person named Summer. You guys"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":135.11,"endTime":136.16,"body":"might have heard of her."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":136.19,"endTime":138.62,"body":"Yeah we actually had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":136.19,"endTime":138.62,"body":"Summer on the podcast a couple"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":138.62,"endTime":139.22,"body":"weeks ago,"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":139.7,"endTime":144.77,"body":"I studied Media Arts at"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":139.7,"endTime":144.77,"body":"Brigham Young University and"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":144.77,"endTime":145.55,"body":"graduated."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":147.02,"endTime":147.05,"body":"Congraduations."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":147.26,"endTime":151.07,"body":"I like to say I graduated"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":147.26,"endTime":151.07,"body":"because for a lot of kids like"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":151.07,"endTime":155.51,"body":"me, it was an extremely"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":151.07,"endTime":155.51,"body":"difficult and trying time, and"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":155.57,"endTime":157.7,"body":"not all of us make it out."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":158.84,"endTime":160.13,"body":"What do you mean by"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":158.84,"endTime":160.13,"body":"kids like me?"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":161.39,"endTime":165.47,"body":"Kids who are anywhere on"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":161.39,"endTime":165.47,"body":"the spectrum of being LGBTQIA+."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":166.91,"endTime":169.4,"body":"Yeah. What was what was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":166.91,"endTime":169.4,"body":"hard about your time at BYU?"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":169.55,"endTime":173.48,"body":"I'm having that"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":169.55,"endTime":173.48,"body":"complicated identity of being"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":173.54,"endTime":181.22,"body":"both Mormon and queer. And then"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":173.54,"endTime":181.22,"body":"later, also, realizing that my"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":181.31,"endTime":185.78,"body":"gender identity was or, or"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":181.31,"endTime":185.78,"body":"rather like coming to terms with"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":185.78,"endTime":189.86,"body":"my gender identity, something"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":185.78,"endTime":189.86,"body":"that I had known since I was a"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":189.86,"endTime":192.02,"body":"child, but just didn't have the"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":189.86,"endTime":192.02,"body":"words for it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":192.89,"endTime":195.62,"body":"Actually, you, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":192.89,"endTime":195.62,"body":"wrote a story about this, right?"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":195.71,"endTime":196.04,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.07,"endTime":197.0,"body":"Would you mind sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.07,"endTime":197.0,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":197.0,"endTime":200.33,"body":"Yes, I would love to."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":197.0,"endTime":200.33,"body":"Once upon a time, there were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":200.33,"endTime":204.5,"body":"girls, and there were boys, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":200.33,"endTime":204.5,"body":"there was Bobbi. Bobbi played"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":204.5,"endTime":208.49,"body":"with the boys and loved being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":204.5,"endTime":208.49,"body":"with them. But as much as Bobbi"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":208.49,"endTime":211.7,"body":"was like one of the boys, Bobbi"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":208.49,"endTime":211.7,"body":"and the boys knew that Bobbi"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":211.7,"endTime":215.9,"body":"wasn't actually a boy. And for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":211.7,"endTime":215.9,"body":"clarification, Bobbi didn't want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":215.9,"endTime":218.96,"body":"to grow up to be a man one time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":215.9,"endTime":218.96,"body":"at church. And new member"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":218.96,"endTime":222.89,"body":"pointed at Bobbi from afar and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":218.96,"endTime":222.89,"body":"asked if Bobbi was a boy or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.89,"endTime":226.91,"body":"girl. Bobbi's friends promptly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.89,"endTime":226.91,"body":"replied, \"Oh, Bobbi isn't a boy."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":227.57,"endTime":232.64,"body":"But we definitely wouldn't call"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":227.57,"endTime":232.64,"body":"her a girl either.\" Even I had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":232.64,"endTime":236.06,"body":"to chuckle when my friends told"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":232.64,"endTime":236.06,"body":"me about this after. Indeed,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":236.33,"endTime":239.39,"body":"growing up, Bobbi was often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":236.33,"endTime":239.39,"body":"described by peers and adults"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":239.39,"endTime":244.37,"body":"alike as being a quote unquote"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":239.39,"endTime":244.37,"body":"tomboy. The thing was, Bobbi"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":244.37,"endTime":248.18,"body":"didn't see themselves as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":244.37,"endTime":248.18,"body":"tomboy. And frankly, never liked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":248.18,"endTime":251.3,"body":"being called one. But Bobbi"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":248.18,"endTime":251.3,"body":"couldn't figure out why it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":251.3,"endTime":254.39,"body":"bothered them so much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":251.3,"endTime":254.39,"body":"nonetheless, throughout a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":254.39,"endTime":257.42,"body":"their life, Bobbi kept going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":254.39,"endTime":257.42,"body":"through phases trying to be like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":257.42,"endTime":260.81,"body":"the other girls. Because when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":257.42,"endTime":260.81,"body":"you're a kid, you just want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":260.81,"endTime":264.98,"body":"fit in. Periodically, Bobbi will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":260.81,"endTime":264.98,"body":"grow their hair out, dress, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":264.98,"endTime":269.12,"body":"what they thought goes should be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":264.98,"endTime":269.12,"body":"or look like. And shortly after,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":269.12,"endTime":272.42,"body":"throughout the whole facade,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":269.12,"endTime":272.42,"body":"only to repeat the cycle all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":272.42,"endTime":275.66,"body":"over again. A little while"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":272.42,"endTime":275.66,"body":"later, this internal conflict"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.17,"endTime":280.64,"body":"went on as Bobbi grew up, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.17,"endTime":280.64,"body":"Bobbi was in their 20s. As most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":280.64,"endTime":284.27,"body":"of you know by now, they came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":280.64,"endTime":284.27,"body":"out as gay. And since they were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":284.27,"endTime":287.63,"body":"biologically female, the term"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":284.27,"endTime":287.63,"body":"typically used to describe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.63,"endTime":292.19,"body":"someone like Bobbi was lesbian,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.63,"endTime":292.19,"body":"but just like the term tomboy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":292.82,"endTime":296.03,"body":"the term lesbian made Bobbi"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":292.82,"endTime":296.03,"body":"cringe every time they were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":296.03,"endTime":300.08,"body":"referenced by it. Again, Bobbi"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":296.03,"endTime":300.08,"body":"couldn't figure out why. Then In"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":300.08,"endTime":305.21,"body":"one day, a few years ago, Bobbi"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":300.08,"endTime":305.21,"body":"discovered a term agender. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":305.21,"endTime":309.41,"body":"suddenly, for the first time in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":305.21,"endTime":309.41,"body":"their life, everything finally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":309.41,"endTime":313.01,"body":"started to make sense. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":309.41,"endTime":313.01,"body":"definition of agender, at least"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":313.01,"endTime":317.81,"body":"for Bobbi, means being a person"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":313.01,"endTime":317.81,"body":"who has an internal sense of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":317.81,"endTime":322.16,"body":"being neither a man or a woman."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":317.81,"endTime":322.16,"body":"Bobbi discovered a term that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":322.16,"endTime":325.88,"body":"finally fit, because it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":322.16,"endTime":325.88,"body":"perfectly describes how they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":325.88,"endTime":326.51,"body":"don't fit."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":326.69,"endTime":328.4,"body":"Well, Bobbi, thank you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":326.69,"endTime":328.4,"body":"so much for sharing that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":328.55,"endTime":332.03,"body":"Yeah. So Bobbi, you talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":328.55,"endTime":332.03,"body":"about how growing up, people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":332.03,"endTime":334.01,"body":"didn't really know where to put"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":332.03,"endTime":334.01,"body":"you, and you don't really know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":334.01,"endTime":337.16,"body":"where to put yourself either."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":334.01,"endTime":337.16,"body":"What was that like for you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":337.54,"endTime":341.5,"body":"It was confusing. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":337.54,"endTime":341.5,"body":"think like a lot of people in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":341.5,"endTime":345.91,"body":"general, that's an innate desire"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":341.5,"endTime":345.91,"body":"to, to want to fit in and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":346.0,"endTime":348.67,"body":"wanting to fit in, or like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":346.0,"endTime":348.67,"body":"trying to figure out where to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.67,"endTime":353.17,"body":"fit in, was largely based on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.67,"endTime":353.17,"body":"your knowledge and understanding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":353.17,"endTime":357.43,"body":"of how society worked. And if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":353.17,"endTime":357.43,"body":"society only had this or that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":357.52,"endTime":362.59,"body":"kind of, regardless of how you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":357.52,"endTime":362.59,"body":"felt, you really try to force"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.59,"endTime":367.21,"body":"yourself into the, these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.59,"endTime":367.21,"body":"existing parts of society, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":367.21,"endTime":371.32,"body":"these existing definitions of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":367.21,"endTime":371.32,"body":"society. In a way, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":371.32,"endTime":374.17,"body":"kind of like, you know, as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":371.32,"endTime":374.17,"body":"kid, you know, you play with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":374.17,"endTime":377.59,"body":"kind of puzzle blocks, per se."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":374.17,"endTime":377.59,"body":"And then you try to like shove,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":377.59,"endTime":381.7,"body":"like, I don't know, like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":377.59,"endTime":381.7,"body":"circular block into like a cube,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":382.48,"endTime":385.69,"body":"or like a slot that's meant for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":382.48,"endTime":385.69,"body":"a cube, and it doesn't fit, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":385.69,"endTime":388.18,"body":"then you're like, you just like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":385.69,"endTime":388.18,"body":"constantly trying to jam it in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":388.18,"endTime":392.17,"body":"there. I think, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":388.18,"endTime":392.17,"body":"actually the first time I like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":392.62,"endTime":396.7,"body":"I've given that analogy in it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":392.62,"endTime":396.7,"body":"as well. And it really describes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":397.12,"endTime":400.84,"body":"that feeling so much like it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":397.12,"endTime":400.84,"body":"you totally do not fit in there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":400.87,"endTime":404.53,"body":"But you were like forcing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":400.87,"endTime":404.53,"body":"yourself to try to get in there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":404.53,"endTime":408.34,"body":"somewhere, somehow, because then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":404.53,"endTime":408.34,"body":"perhaps you could start to feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":408.34,"endTime":410.59,"body":"a little bit more complete, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":408.34,"endTime":410.59,"body":"everyone else."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":410.64,"endTime":413.4,"body":"Yeah, you were saying that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":410.64,"endTime":413.4,"body":"when you're reading your story,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":413.4,"endTime":416.1,"body":"that there were times when you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":413.4,"endTime":416.1,"body":"would dress like a girl and grow"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":416.1,"endTime":418.5,"body":"your hair out. And then you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":416.1,"endTime":418.5,"body":"would kind of just throw it all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":418.5,"endTime":422.88,"body":"away and try again. So it sounds"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":418.5,"endTime":422.88,"body":"like there was a lot of trying"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":422.88,"endTime":425.73,"body":"to fit into this hole he didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":422.88,"endTime":425.73,"body":"fit into for a lot of years."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":426.08,"endTime":429.14,"body":"Yeah, I'm glad you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":426.08,"endTime":429.14,"body":"brought that up, too. Because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":429.17,"endTime":433.55,"body":"also wanted to add to that point"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":429.17,"endTime":433.55,"body":"in that obviously, being a girl"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":433.55,"endTime":438.38,"body":"doesn't necessarily have to take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":433.55,"endTime":438.38,"body":"on a certain kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.44,"endTime":443.0,"body":"presentation or expression. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.44,"endTime":443.0,"body":"kind of like having long hair,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":443.0,"endTime":447.68,"body":"wearing skirts were kind of like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":443.0,"endTime":447.68,"body":"the mainstream expectation that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":447.68,"endTime":451.94,"body":"I think a lot of us grew up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":447.68,"endTime":451.94,"body":"with, at least in the societies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.94,"endTime":455.27,"body":"that we exist in. So I want to,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.94,"endTime":455.27,"body":"I want to speak to that because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":455.27,"endTime":460.28,"body":"obviously, I also definitely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":455.27,"endTime":460.28,"body":"wanted to speak to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.4,"endTime":465.26,"body":"difference and importance of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.4,"endTime":465.26,"body":"gender expression, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":465.26,"endTime":469.04,"body":"presentation and how that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":465.26,"endTime":469.04,"body":"different from gender identity."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":469.16,"endTime":473.87,"body":"Related, of course, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":469.16,"endTime":473.87,"body":"determine how someone might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":473.93,"endTime":475.37,"body":"present themselves."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":475.68,"endTime":479.25,"body":"Yeah. So as we were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":475.68,"endTime":479.25,"body":"kind of preparing for this, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":479.25,"endTime":482.19,"body":"was looking up some definitions,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":479.25,"endTime":482.19,"body":"just to make sure that I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":482.19,"endTime":485.28,"body":"was on the same page of where I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":482.19,"endTime":485.28,"body":"expected you might be. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":485.31,"endTime":488.07,"body":"there's there are like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":485.31,"endTime":488.07,"body":"distinctions between gender and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":488.07,"endTime":491.97,"body":"sex. And according to the World"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":488.07,"endTime":491.97,"body":"Health Organization, gender is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":491.97,"endTime":495.45,"body":"socially constructed roles,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":491.97,"endTime":495.45,"body":"behaviors or activities that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":495.51,"endTime":500.46,"body":"society considers appropriate"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":495.51,"endTime":500.46,"body":"for men and women. So in that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":500.55,"endTime":503.88,"body":"definition, gender would be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":500.55,"endTime":503.88,"body":"different from sex, because like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":503.88,"endTime":509.01,"body":"it has no, it doesn't have like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":503.88,"endTime":509.01,"body":"an intrinsic link to anatomy. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":509.01,"endTime":512.67,"body":"there's sex, and then there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":509.01,"endTime":512.67,"body":"gender. And so you're saying"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":512.67,"endTime":516.0,"body":"that like the way like no matter"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":512.67,"endTime":516.0,"body":"what your sex is, your gender"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":516.0,"endTime":520.26,"body":"expression, can or can not be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":516.0,"endTime":520.26,"body":"different from that, depending"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":520.26,"endTime":523.86,"body":"on how you want, like, what is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":520.26,"endTime":523.86,"body":"inside of you, right?"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":524.25,"endTime":529.8,"body":"Also, great question. So"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":524.25,"endTime":529.8,"body":"now let's, I'm glad you brought"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":529.8,"endTime":534.69,"body":"up sex because, at least to me,"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":529.8,"endTime":534.69,"body":"like sex is more of biological"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":534.69,"endTime":539.94,"body":"characteristics. But these"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":534.69,"endTime":539.94,"body":"biological characteristics may"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":539.94,"endTime":544.17,"body":"not necessarily determine"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":539.94,"endTime":544.17,"body":"gender. And for a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":544.17,"endTime":549.18,"body":"it doesn't. So we have like"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":544.17,"endTime":549.18,"body":"sexual characteristics or sex."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":549.63,"endTime":553.35,"body":"And then we have gender"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":549.63,"endTime":553.35,"body":"identity. And then we have"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":553.47,"endTime":557.61,"body":"gender expression or gender"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":553.47,"endTime":557.61,"body":"presentation. So now I think"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":557.61,"endTime":560.43,"body":"we're more like talking in terms"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":557.61,"endTime":560.43,"body":"of like three different things."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":560.57,"endTime":563.27,"body":"So how are those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":560.57,"endTime":563.27,"body":"related? Cuz I feel like this,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":563.3,"endTime":566.33,"body":"this is where many people get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":563.3,"endTime":566.33,"body":"confused is because there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":566.33,"endTime":569.54,"body":"these three things that and a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":566.33,"endTime":569.54,"body":"lot of people's minds are the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":569.54,"endTime":573.53,"body":"same, like gender is sex is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":569.54,"endTime":573.53,"body":"gender expression, and kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":573.53,"endTime":577.76,"body":"historically, that's how things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":573.53,"endTime":577.76,"body":"have been. But now we have these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":577.76,"endTime":580.58,"body":"like, different genders,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":577.76,"endTime":580.58,"body":"different gender expressions,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":580.58,"endTime":585.02,"body":"and then, I mean, even just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":580.58,"endTime":585.02,"body":"anatomically, there's not two"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":585.02,"endTime":588.68,"body":"sexes. There's a lot of intersex"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":585.02,"endTime":588.68,"body":"people who are born with like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":588.68,"endTime":592.7,"body":"hormones and biological factors"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":588.68,"endTime":592.7,"body":"of, of both sexes, male and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":592.7,"endTime":596.57,"body":"female. And so I, it, that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":592.7,"endTime":596.57,"body":"where it starts getting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":596.99,"endTime":601.25,"body":"confusing, I guess, you know, so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":596.99,"endTime":601.25,"body":"so how do those interact for you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":601.49,"endTime":602.78,"body":"as agender?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":603.08,"endTime":605.12,"body":"Before I, before I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":603.08,"endTime":605.12,"body":"continue I just wanted to say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":605.12,"endTime":608.48,"body":"like as you were kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":605.12,"endTime":608.48,"body":"expressing all the things that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.48,"endTime":612.05,"body":"you just did it just it really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.48,"endTime":612.05,"body":"just makes you realize like how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":612.47,"endTime":618.74,"body":"wonderfully different we all are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":612.47,"endTime":618.74,"body":"and how beautiful these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":618.74,"endTime":622.61,"body":"differences can be. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":618.74,"endTime":622.61,"body":"potential of these differences"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.61,"endTime":628.04,"body":"to thrive or for, for a person"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.61,"endTime":628.04,"body":"to thrive when embraced because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":628.13,"endTime":631.25,"body":"as you could tell like as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":628.13,"endTime":631.25,"body":"child like or you know even in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.25,"endTime":635.75,"body":"my later years like it's very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.25,"endTime":635.75,"body":"mentally and emotionally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":635.75,"endTime":639.8,"body":"exhausting and imagine like i"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":635.75,"endTime":639.8,"body":"mean in addition to my queer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":639.8,"endTime":643.22,"body":"identity so imagine like not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":639.8,"endTime":643.22,"body":"having to be so invested in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":643.22,"endTime":647.09,"body":"figuring things out if you knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":643.22,"endTime":647.09,"body":"that you could just simply exist"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":647.09,"endTime":650.9,"body":"as is and be celebrated for it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":647.09,"endTime":650.9,"body":"like how much those energies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.9,"endTime":652.58,"body":"could have been channeled"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.9,"endTime":652.58,"body":"elsewhere."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":652.76,"endTime":653.36,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":654.71,"endTime":658.91,"body":"But anyway coming back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":654.71,"endTime":658.91,"body":"to your question so for me I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.91,"endTime":662.3,"body":"born female at birth so I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.91,"endTime":662.3,"body":"female biological"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":662.3,"endTime":666.83,"body":"characteristics so that's kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":662.3,"endTime":666.83,"body":"of like my sex and my gender"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.83,"endTime":669.89,"body":"would be agender which simply"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.83,"endTime":669.89,"body":"means I don't strongly identify"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.89,"endTime":673.88,"body":"with either being being within"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.89,"endTime":673.88,"body":"the binaries which in a society"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.88,"endTime":677.69,"body":"that would be being a man or a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.88,"endTime":677.69,"body":"woman and as for my presentation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.69,"endTime":681.29,"body":"I tend to lean towards what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.69,"endTime":681.29,"body":"people might consider masculine"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":681.44,"endTime":683.96,"body":"and I like to say that because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":681.44,"endTime":683.96,"body":"really at the end of the day"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":683.96,"endTime":687.65,"body":"like who gets to decide what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":683.96,"endTime":687.65,"body":"types of like presentations or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":687.68,"endTime":690.8,"body":"more masculine or more feminine?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":687.68,"endTime":690.8,"body":"What's it was that really based"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":690.8,"endTime":696.92,"body":"in? Frankly my presentation or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":690.8,"endTime":696.92,"body":"the way I dress is largely based"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.92,"endTime":701.99,"body":"on the principle of am I wearing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.92,"endTime":701.99,"body":"something that allows me to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":701.99,"endTime":704.78,"body":"ready anyone invites me to play"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":701.99,"endTime":704.78,"body":"basketball?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":707.15,"endTime":707.69,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":707.69,"endTime":710.78,"body":"Are you wearing something"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":707.69,"endTime":710.78,"body":"you're able to run in, to jump"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":710.78,"endTime":714.17,"body":"in? Are you wearing the right"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":710.78,"endTime":714.17,"body":"shoes? So i'm always dressed for"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":714.26,"endTime":714.71,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":715.25,"endTime":716.63,"body":"You're a very practical"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":715.25,"endTime":716.63,"body":"dresser."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":716.66,"endTime":718.04,"body":"I'm very practical."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":719.15,"endTime":723.74,"body":"Yeah so Bobbi I'm, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":719.15,"endTime":723.74,"body":"cisgender man or male so I, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":723.74,"endTime":726.44,"body":"know my sex assigned at birth is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":723.74,"endTime":726.44,"body":"how I identify. It's also how I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":726.44,"endTime":730.01,"body":"express myself as well. I dress"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":726.44,"endTime":730.01,"body":"very manly no?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":730.46,"endTime":731.42,"body":"So manly."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":731.42,"endTime":731.96,"body":"So manly."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":731.99,"endTime":732.89,"body":"You look so good."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":732.87,"endTime":735.6,"body":"Thank you. Actually this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":732.87,"endTime":735.6,"body":"shirt does make my arms look re"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":735.6,"endTime":739.29,"body":"lly good. No one can see. So B"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":735.6,"endTime":739.29,"body":"bbi helped me understand like w"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":739.29,"endTime":742.98,"body":"at it's like to present as a w"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":739.29,"endTime":742.98,"body":"man when you identify as a g"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":742.98,"endTime":746.07,"body":"nder and where that like what t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":742.98,"endTime":746.07,"body":"at discomfort feels like."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":746.28,"endTime":748.8,"body":"Can i ask like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":746.28,"endTime":748.8,"body":"question real quick before we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":748.8,"endTime":752.52,"body":"get there because the, the term"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":748.8,"endTime":752.52,"body":"we use to like introduce this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":752.52,"endTime":755.31,"body":"episode was non-binary and so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":752.52,"endTime":755.31,"body":"just for anyone before the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":755.31,"endTime":758.22,"body":"conversation gets like too"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":755.31,"endTime":758.22,"body":"advanced could you make the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":758.22,"endTime":760.77,"body":"distinction like what's the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":758.22,"endTime":760.77,"body":"difference between non binary"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":760.77,"endTime":761.52,"body":"and agender?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":761.61,"endTime":764.97,"body":"i'm really glad you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":761.61,"endTime":764.97,"body":"asked that so essentially we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":764.97,"endTime":770.16,"body":"have the term transgender. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":764.97,"endTime":770.16,"body":"the term transgender can cover"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.19,"endTime":776.34,"body":"binary, trans identities and non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.19,"endTime":776.34,"body":"binary trans identities and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":776.34,"endTime":780.69,"body":"under the non binary trans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":776.34,"endTime":780.69,"body":"identities you essentially get a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.69,"endTime":787.14,"body":"variety of identities that fall"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.69,"endTime":787.14,"body":"outside of the binaries of men"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":787.17,"endTime":787.83,"body":"or women."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":787.86,"endTime":790.5,"body":"So non binary meaning"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":787.86,"endTime":790.5,"body":"anything but one or the other."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":791.0,"endTime":794.99,"body":"So it's some sort of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":791.0,"endTime":794.99,"body":"combination or like not fitting"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":791.13,"endTime":791.46,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":795.32,"endTime":798.02,"body":"like either a combination or"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":795.32,"endTime":798.02,"body":"like I don't want to say"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":798.02,"endTime":799.25,"body":"rejection but..."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":799.31,"endTime":800.18,"body":"An absence."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":800.21,"endTime":801.77,"body":"An absence. There you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":800.21,"endTime":801.77,"body":"go. That's what I'm looking for."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":801.77,"endTime":804.41,"body":"So like for me that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":801.77,"endTime":804.41,"body":"would be an absence of it. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":804.41,"endTime":807.23,"body":"mean you we can get into like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":804.41,"endTime":807.23,"body":"all the many different terms you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.23,"endTime":810.35,"body":"know like there's also like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.23,"endTime":810.35,"body":"bi-gender like where someone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":810.35,"endTime":814.43,"body":"strongly identifies as both and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":810.35,"endTime":814.43,"body":"in some ways they're unlike the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.43,"endTime":817.04,"body":"complete opposite of that for me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.43,"endTime":817.04,"body":"it's like the absence of both."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":817.19,"endTime":817.49,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.9,"endTime":821.77,"body":"I'm glad you asked this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.9,"endTime":821.77,"body":"because recently I learned that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":821.98,"endTime":826.45,"body":"actually people who identify as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":821.98,"endTime":826.45,"body":"non binary it's okay if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.45,"endTime":831.64,"body":"don't identify with the word"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.45,"endTime":831.64,"body":"transgender and that's something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.64,"endTime":835.45,"body":"that I just came to learn for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.64,"endTime":835.45,"body":"myself recently because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":835.45,"endTime":839.14,"body":"actually personally never saw"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":835.45,"endTime":839.14,"body":"myself as transgender. I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":839.14,"endTime":844.15,"body":"partly because I've strongly saw"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":839.14,"endTime":844.15,"body":"the terms transgender as a word"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":844.15,"endTime":847.87,"body":"for people who were, who still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":844.15,"endTime":847.87,"body":"fell within the binary like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":847.87,"endTime":852.58,"body":"being a trans man or trans woman"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":847.87,"endTime":852.58,"body":"yeah but then you know like I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.58,"endTime":856.45,"body":"was told that non binary still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.58,"endTime":856.45,"body":"fell under the trans umbrella"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":856.84,"endTime":861.13,"body":"and so then I thought i had to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":856.84,"endTime":861.13,"body":"take on the you know the in some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.13,"endTime":865.42,"body":"ways like the transgender term"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.13,"endTime":865.42,"body":"but anyway I wanted to mention"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.42,"endTime":868.33,"body":"that because you know for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.42,"endTime":868.33,"body":"everyone who's listening or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.33,"endTime":871.87,"body":"wanting to learn that in,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.33,"endTime":871.87,"body":"honestly sometimes the best way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.87,"endTime":876.64,"body":"to learn is just to ask and how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.87,"endTime":876.64,"body":"and like someone might identify"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":876.64,"endTime":880.12,"body":"not to assume that just because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":876.64,"endTime":880.12,"body":"it's one way for someone that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":880.15,"endTime":881.86,"body":"it's the same way for everyone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":880.15,"endTime":881.86,"body":"else."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":882.55,"endTime":885.79,"body":"So what I'm hearing you say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":882.55,"endTime":885.79,"body":"is there's this category of non"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":885.79,"endTime":889.21,"body":"binary and agender is like a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":885.79,"endTime":889.21,"body":"subcategory of that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.33,"endTime":893.23,"body":"Yes and so I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":889.33,"endTime":893.23,"body":"comfortable referring to myself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":893.23,"endTime":898.39,"body":"as having a non binary identity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":893.23,"endTime":898.39,"body":"or being agender that's probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":898.39,"endTime":904.15,"body":"the most frequent term I refer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":898.39,"endTime":904.15,"body":"to myself by. And I almost never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":904.81,"endTime":908.14,"body":"refer to myself as trans. I, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":904.81,"endTime":908.14,"body":"know, it's one of those things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":908.14,"endTime":911.41,"body":"where you learn, you think, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":908.14,"endTime":911.41,"body":"that must be like the scholarly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.41,"endTime":915.25,"body":"approach or something. But then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.41,"endTime":915.25,"body":"at the end of the day, like, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.25,"endTime":918.4,"body":"think we come back to the basis"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.25,"endTime":918.4,"body":"of how like, what should work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":918.4,"endTime":921.31,"body":"for us, instead of like, we work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":918.4,"endTime":921.31,"body":"for them."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":922.42,"endTime":925.21,"body":"It sounds like you kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":922.42,"endTime":925.21,"body":"have been told how to identify"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":925.21,"endTime":927.82,"body":"for a long time, and even this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":925.21,"endTime":927.82,"body":"trans identity was kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":927.85,"endTime":930.28,"body":"thrust upon you. And now you've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":927.85,"endTime":930.28,"body":"just recently gotten permission"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":930.28,"endTime":931.9,"body":"to not have to refer to yourself"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":930.28,"endTime":931.9,"body":"as trans."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":931.9,"endTime":932.95,"body":"Right. Right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":933.46,"endTime":934.72,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":933.46,"endTime":934.72,"body":"Congratulations."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":936.37,"endTime":937.18,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":937.18,"endTime":938.92,"body":"We will not put any"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":937.18,"endTime":938.92,"body":"identity on to you today."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":939.52,"endTime":941.23,"body":"Well, thank you, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":939.52,"endTime":941.23,"body":"wanted to put it out there just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.26,"endTime":944.11,"body":"again, you know, kind of like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.26,"endTime":944.11,"body":"for anyone else who's non binary"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":944.11,"endTime":947.14,"body":"and haven't been taught like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":944.11,"endTime":947.14,"body":"oh, that means you know, you're,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":947.56,"endTime":950.95,"body":"you fall in a trans umbrella. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":947.56,"endTime":950.95,"body":"you, you know, you're some kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":950.95,"endTime":951.61,"body":"of trans."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":951.93,"endTime":954.45,"body":"Alright, we can go back"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":951.93,"endTime":954.45,"body":"to your question, Ben. Sorry."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":955.08,"endTime":958.35,"body":"That was good. When you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":955.08,"endTime":958.35,"body":"were presenting female and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":958.35,"endTime":960.6,"body":"identifying as female, you know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":958.35,"endTime":960.6,"body":"help me just understand that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":960.6,"endTime":962.52,"body":"Like what that felt like when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":960.6,"endTime":962.52,"body":"you were presenting as a way"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":962.52,"endTime":965.73,"body":"that didn't really feel, that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":962.52,"endTime":965.73,"body":"didn't resonate with you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":965.88,"endTime":969.63,"body":"So, before I proceed, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":965.88,"endTime":969.63,"body":"do want to clarify the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":969.63,"endTime":972.12,"body":"definitions we're using here."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":969.63,"endTime":972.12,"body":"Because I've learned that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":972.12,"endTime":974.79,"body":"sometimes it's kind of hard to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":972.12,"endTime":974.79,"body":"have a conversation when you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":974.79,"endTime":977.97,"body":"not in the same, we're not on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":974.79,"endTime":977.97,"body":"the same page about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":978.3,"endTime":982.56,"body":"definitions you're using behind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":978.3,"endTime":982.56,"body":"these terms. When you say, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":982.56,"endTime":985.41,"body":"example, that when you say like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":982.56,"endTime":985.41,"body":"presenting as female I think of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.41,"endTime":988.95,"body":"that more as like presenting as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.41,"endTime":988.95,"body":"a woman. Because to me, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":988.95,"endTime":992.25,"body":"being female is more of like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":988.95,"endTime":992.25,"body":"you, like biology."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":992.25,"endTime":992.91,"body":"Biological."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":992.99,"endTime":995.39,"body":"Yeah, biological"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":992.99,"endTime":995.39,"body":"characteristic. And I want to"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":995.39,"endTime":998.09,"body":"clarify here, because I do know"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":995.39,"endTime":998.09,"body":"that there are a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":998.09,"endTime":1001.3,"body":"out there who, who actually kind"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":998.09,"endTime":1001.3,"body":"of use male and female as"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1001.3,"endTime":1004.51,"body":"alternative terms to like, men"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1001.3,"endTime":1004.51,"body":"and women."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1004.66,"endTime":1005.14,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1005.2,"endTime":1010.87,"body":"But but for me, I, I see"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1005.2,"endTime":1010.87,"body":"it more like a biological sexual"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1010.87,"endTime":1013.96,"body":"characteristic. You know, kind"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1010.87,"endTime":1013.96,"body":"of like, the anatomy that you"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1013.96,"endTime":1015.1,"body":"were born with, per se."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1015.22,"endTime":1017.47,"body":"Right? So So you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1015.22,"endTime":1017.47,"body":"saying you like to use different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1017.47,"endTime":1020.71,"body":"terms to differentiate whether"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1017.47,"endTime":1020.71,"body":"we're talking about gender,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1020.95,"endTime":1024.16,"body":"which being defined as the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1020.95,"endTime":1024.16,"body":"social construct of like, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1024.16,"endTime":1027.28,"body":"feminine femininity versus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1024.16,"endTime":1027.28,"body":"masculinity, and then sex being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1027.28,"endTime":1028.69,"body":"like, biologically male, female."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.72,"endTime":1031.45,"body":"Right. And then yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.72,"endTime":1031.45,"body":"and then gender identity being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.45,"endTime":1035.8,"body":"man or woman. So essentially,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.45,"endTime":1035.8,"body":"yeah, you know, I was, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.8,"endTime":1040.45,"body":"born with a female body. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.8,"endTime":1040.45,"body":"don't identify as a woman. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.45,"endTime":1044.29,"body":"that was, even though that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.45,"endTime":1044.29,"body":"the, it seemed like that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.29,"endTime":1048.49,"body":"like the logical expectation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.29,"endTime":1048.49,"body":"Logical expectation, that's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.49,"endTime":1052.3,"body":"funny term. Essentially, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.49,"endTime":1052.3,"body":"was the expectation of society,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.3,"endTime":1054.79,"body":"right? If you're born female,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.3,"endTime":1054.79,"body":"obviously, you're going to be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1054.79,"endTime":1057.58,"body":"girl, and you're going to grow"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1054.79,"endTime":1057.58,"body":"up to be a woman. And the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.58,"endTime":1060.01,"body":"goes for if you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.58,"endTime":1060.01,"body":"were born with a male body,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.13,"endTime":1063.1,"body":"obviously, you're going to be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.13,"endTime":1063.1,"body":"man, regardless of how you feel,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.1,"endTime":1067.39,"body":"essentially. That's, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.1,"endTime":1067.39,"body":"that's how that was put onto a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1067.39,"endTime":1071.38,"body":"lot of us by society. And for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1067.39,"endTime":1071.38,"body":"me, yeah, it was very, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.38,"endTime":1074.89,"body":"constantly felt like I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.38,"endTime":1074.89,"body":"playing pretend, like kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1074.89,"endTime":1078.49,"body":"like doing what you got to do in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1074.89,"endTime":1078.49,"body":"order to survive in this world."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1079.66,"endTime":1083.65,"body":"I think in, in many ways,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1079.66,"endTime":1083.65,"body":"whether you are binary or non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.65,"endTime":1087.82,"body":"binary, trans, I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.65,"endTime":1087.82,"body":"us feel very similar ways, in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1087.82,"endTime":1093.58,"body":"sense of you dressed up in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1087.82,"endTime":1093.58,"body":"socially acceptable way in order"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1093.58,"endTime":1094.9,"body":"to function in society."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1095.05,"endTime":1100.03,"body":"So it sounds like being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1095.05,"endTime":1100.03,"body":"agender it's not just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1100.03,"endTime":1103.42,"body":"wearing blue or pink or having"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1100.03,"endTime":1103.42,"body":"long or short hair. There's also"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1103.6,"endTime":1109.45,"body":"some aspects of biological"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1103.6,"endTime":1109.45,"body":"comfort and like place within"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1109.45,"endTime":1111.7,"body":"society. Can you help me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1109.45,"endTime":1111.7,"body":"understand a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1111.7,"endTime":1115.69,"body":"about, like, how it, how it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1111.7,"endTime":1115.69,"body":"roots deeper than just like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1116.05,"endTime":1119.95,"body":"like, it's deeper than non"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1116.05,"endTime":1119.95,"body":"conforming gender. Like it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1119.95,"endTime":1123.07,"body":"deeper than a girl doing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1119.95,"endTime":1123.07,"body":"something boyish. Just like you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1123.07,"endTime":1126.31,"body":"said, people said, they used the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1123.07,"endTime":1126.31,"body":"term tomboy, but you didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1126.31,"endTime":1129.43,"body":"really like that, because it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1126.31,"endTime":1129.43,"body":"not like, you're a girl that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1129.43,"endTime":1131.77,"body":"likes boyish things. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1129.43,"endTime":1131.77,"body":"there's, there's something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1131.77,"endTime":1133.84,"body":"deeper there. Does that make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1131.77,"endTime":1133.84,"body":"sense?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1134.23,"endTime":1138.22,"body":"Right, right. I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1134.23,"endTime":1138.22,"body":"from an early age, I also as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1138.22,"endTime":1142.75,"body":"what my parents might think,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1138.22,"endTime":1142.75,"body":"perhaps having the personality"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.75,"endTime":1147.04,"body":"of sorts that would reject or at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.75,"endTime":1147.04,"body":"least attempted to reject."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1147.44,"endTime":1148.49,"body":"They're pretty"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1147.44,"endTime":1148.49,"body":"traditional."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1148.76,"endTime":1152.72,"body":"Yeah. Oh, and for me to,"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1148.76,"endTime":1152.72,"body":"like, attempt to reject these"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1152.75,"endTime":1155.96,"body":"these expectations placed upon"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1152.75,"endTime":1155.96,"body":"me, like, you know, just because"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1155.96,"endTime":1159.5,"body":"I was born a girl doesn't like"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1155.96,"endTime":1159.5,"body":"why do I have to do XYZ?"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1159.68,"endTime":1163.43,"body":"Honestly, you know, with, with"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1159.68,"endTime":1163.43,"body":"due credit to my parents,"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1163.61,"endTime":1167.99,"body":"thankfully, or they were never"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1163.61,"endTime":1167.99,"body":"like too forceful about it. I"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1167.99,"endTime":1172.7,"body":"think Sunday best was about as,"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1167.99,"endTime":1172.7,"body":"as a firm as they got, I"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1172.7,"endTime":1173.42,"body":"suppose."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1173.48,"endTime":1174.71,"body":"A skirt with a pink bow."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1175.07,"endTime":1179.03,"body":"Exactly. Specifically"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1175.07,"endTime":1179.03,"body":"picking out I think for the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1179.03,"endTime":1181.16,"body":"part you like you can wherever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1179.03,"endTime":1181.16,"body":"you want. You can wear whatever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.16,"endTime":1184.16,"body":"you want during a week, but, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.16,"endTime":1184.16,"body":"know, come Sunday, better put on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1184.16,"endTime":1188.42,"body":"a dress or skirt. I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1184.16,"endTime":1188.42,"body":"remembered this, this memory of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.42,"endTime":1191.72,"body":"when I was a teenager and for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.42,"endTime":1191.72,"body":"various reasons one time, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.72,"endTime":1194.72,"body":"know, I was attending an event"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.72,"endTime":1194.72,"body":"and had to wear a skirt and this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1194.72,"endTime":1198.32,"body":"was outside of church and my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1194.72,"endTime":1198.32,"body":"friends saw me and they were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1198.32,"endTime":1203.27,"body":"like, this is weird because we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1198.32,"endTime":1203.27,"body":"know you're wearing a skirt. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1203.27,"endTime":1205.61,"body":"it almost seems as though we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1203.27,"endTime":1205.61,"body":"like, you're like a boy in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.61,"endTime":1211.85,"body":"skirt. And I was, and I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.61,"endTime":1211.85,"body":"remember seeing it, like, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.85,"endTime":1214.13,"body":"remember being like, amused, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.85,"endTime":1214.13,"body":"slightly disappointed because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.13,"endTime":1217.7,"body":"had, like, tried to dress up,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.13,"endTime":1217.7,"body":"you know. And it's just like, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.7,"endTime":1219.8,"body":"don't think I look like a boy do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.7,"endTime":1219.8,"body":"I? And they're like, \"No, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1219.8,"endTime":1226.79,"body":"just your vibe.\" I might have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1219.8,"endTime":1226.79,"body":"had even long hair at a time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.79,"endTime":1229.7,"body":"that like, completely threw me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.79,"endTime":1229.7,"body":"off like yet long hair, you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.7,"endTime":1232.55,"body":"a skirt on and your friends are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.7,"endTime":1232.55,"body":"still like, this is what looks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.55,"endTime":1236.48,"body":"kinda like, it looks kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.55,"endTime":1236.48,"body":"weird on you, you know, man, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1236.48,"endTime":1237.23,"body":"tried man."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1238.789,"endTime":1240.529,"body":"So even at this early age,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1238.789,"endTime":1240.529,"body":"like there was something that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1240.529,"endTime":1244.009,"body":"you just didn't feel congruent"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1240.529,"endTime":1244.009,"body":"with, with being a woman, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1244.039,"endTime":1246.829,"body":"even your peers saw something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1244.039,"endTime":1246.829,"body":"different in you as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1246.0,"endTime":1249.48,"body":"And even this, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1246.0,"endTime":1249.48,"body":"with my parents, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1249.48,"endTime":1252.45,"body":"thinking that this person had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1249.48,"endTime":1252.45,"body":"kind of rejected expectations"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.45,"endTime":1256.89,"body":"placed upon me like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.45,"endTime":1256.89,"body":"think it was a conscious one at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1256.89,"endTime":1261.03,"body":"all. But I think in a sense when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1256.89,"endTime":1261.03,"body":"you are a child, because you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1261.03,"endTime":1264.39,"body":"have less understanding of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1261.03,"endTime":1264.39,"body":"world, and therefore more more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1264.39,"endTime":1268.29,"body":"bold in your attempt to reject"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1264.39,"endTime":1268.29,"body":"these expectations, because you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.29,"endTime":1271.86,"body":"don't realize that conforming to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.29,"endTime":1271.86,"body":"these expectations will help you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1271.86,"endTime":1274.89,"body":"to sort of survive in some way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1271.86,"endTime":1274.89,"body":"Because you have to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.1,"endTime":1277.2,"body":"as a child, you're just like, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.1,"endTime":1277.2,"body":"don't want to do this, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1277.2,"endTime":1280.32,"body":"doesn't feel like me, I think in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1277.2,"endTime":1280.32,"body":"a way you're like more in tune."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1280.89,"endTime":1285.27,"body":"And again, like more or less"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1280.89,"endTime":1285.27,"body":"aware, with the need to survive."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1285.57,"endTime":1288.54,"body":"But as you get older, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1285.57,"endTime":1288.54,"body":"realize, well, I guess if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1288.54,"endTime":1292.05,"body":"society works this way, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1288.54,"endTime":1292.05,"body":"want to fit in, then and I'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1292.05,"endTime":1295.17,"body":"try to jam in that puzzle block,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1292.05,"endTime":1295.17,"body":"even if I don't fit."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1296.44,"endTime":1298.54,"body":"Now that you have this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1296.44,"endTime":1298.54,"body":"term that you identify with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1298.57,"endTime":1302.29,"body":"agender does it feel like you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1298.57,"endTime":1302.29,"body":"more like you as a child and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1302.29,"endTime":1304.9,"body":"that you're fitting into the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1302.29,"endTime":1304.9,"body":"right space?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1305.17,"endTime":1309.1,"body":"Yes, I would say ever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1305.17,"endTime":1309.1,"body":"since yeah, discovering the term"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1309.16,"endTime":1313.66,"body":"agender and realizing it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1309.16,"endTime":1313.66,"body":"okay. It was okay to be me. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1313.66,"endTime":1318.55,"body":"was okay to not have to identify"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1313.66,"endTime":1318.55,"body":"as this or that. Really the only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.55,"endTime":1321.79,"body":"way I can describe describe it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.55,"endTime":1321.79,"body":"as is liberating."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1321.91,"endTime":1322.36,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1322.96,"endTime":1326.8,"body":"Like, you know, I picture"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1322.96,"endTime":1326.8,"body":"myself as that child finally"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1327.07,"endTime":1331.24,"body":"finding the right, the right fit"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1327.07,"endTime":1331.24,"body":"for my block that's in my hand."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1331.33,"endTime":1332.23,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1332.26,"endTime":1333.01,"body":"You know. And..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1333.46,"endTime":1336.19,"body":"What was it about this just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1333.46,"endTime":1336.19,"body":"a word that was so liberating to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1336.19,"endTime":1336.52,"body":"you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1336.79,"endTime":1338.92,"body":"It was the very fact"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1336.79,"endTime":1338.92,"body":"that I didn't have to identify"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1338.92,"endTime":1342.67,"body":"as a woman and that was okay. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1338.92,"endTime":1342.67,"body":"mean, easily, like growing up,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1342.67,"endTime":1347.62,"body":"like, like, you would have been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1342.67,"endTime":1347.62,"body":"kind of like, a freak or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.65,"endTime":1351.13,"body":"probably seen as a very, very,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.65,"endTime":1351.13,"body":"very, very special kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1351.13,"endTime":1351.85,"body":"snowflake."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1352.06,"endTime":1354.43,"body":"It sounds like societal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1352.06,"endTime":1354.43,"body":"expectations for what is male"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.43,"endTime":1358.39,"body":"and what is female really made"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.43,"endTime":1358.39,"body":"it difficult for you to like be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.39,"endTime":1361.21,"body":"yourself and even find yourself"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.39,"endTime":1361.21,"body":"within that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1361.6,"endTime":1364.6,"body":"I think, I think this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1361.6,"endTime":1364.6,"body":"is simply largely due to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1364.6,"endTime":1368.23,"body":"fact that words help us to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1364.6,"endTime":1368.23,"body":"understand the world and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1368.23,"endTime":1371.38,"body":"understand ourselves, and hence"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1368.23,"endTime":1371.38,"body":"the the meanings placed on these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1371.38,"endTime":1375.07,"body":"words, carry a lot of weight."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1371.38,"endTime":1375.07,"body":"And I just didn't have the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.07,"endTime":1379.21,"body":"words, to explain myself or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.07,"endTime":1379.21,"body":"explain how I was feeling. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1379.24,"endTime":1382.39,"body":"and, and you know, and so when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1379.24,"endTime":1382.39,"body":"there comes a time when there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1382.39,"endTime":1386.38,"body":"a word that kind of gives you a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1382.39,"endTime":1386.38,"body":"place in this world, and tells"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1386.38,"endTime":1390.4,"body":"you that you're okay, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1386.38,"endTime":1390.4,"body":"now there's a word that exists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1390.58,"endTime":1393.88,"body":"to describe someone like you. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1390.58,"endTime":1393.88,"body":"in a sense, is like, almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1394.12,"endTime":1399.04,"body":"like, words give validation to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1394.12,"endTime":1399.04,"body":"our existence, and essentially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1399.04,"endTime":1401.92,"body":"also to help us like communicate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1399.04,"endTime":1401.92,"body":"to people who are trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1401.92,"endTime":1404.56,"body":"understand us, you know, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1401.92,"endTime":1404.56,"body":"someone asks, like, what do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1404.56,"endTime":1407.86,"body":"exactly feeling? I mean, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1404.56,"endTime":1407.86,"body":"it's incredible when you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1408.16,"endTime":1412.24,"body":"the word is legitimate enough to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1408.16,"endTime":1412.24,"body":"now be part of dictionary, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.24,"endTime":1415.78,"body":"well as you know, the singular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.24,"endTime":1415.78,"body":"they/them pronouns."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1416.38,"endTime":1420.1,"body":"And honestly, knowing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1416.38,"endTime":1420.1,"body":"you, and in talking with you,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1420.1,"endTime":1423.28,"body":"this word, like really makes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1420.1,"endTime":1423.28,"body":"sense. Like, it just feels like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1423.61,"endTime":1427.69,"body":"it fits who you are, and the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1423.61,"endTime":1427.69,"body":"vibe, or the energy that I get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1427.69,"endTime":1430.15,"body":"when I'm with you, because it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1427.69,"endTime":1430.15,"body":"almost like you don't just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1430.15,"endTime":1434.59,"body":"prefer like, male associated"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1430.15,"endTime":1434.59,"body":"aesthetics or taste, but you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1434.59,"endTime":1437.23,"body":"also like are really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1434.59,"endTime":1437.23,"body":"uncomfortable being perceived as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1437.23,"endTime":1440.95,"body":"female. So it's like, like when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1437.23,"endTime":1440.95,"body":"you said the word absence, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1440.98,"endTime":1445.42,"body":"I feel that from you. I'm glad"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1440.98,"endTime":1445.42,"body":"you found that word."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.63,"endTime":1449.44,"body":"Thank you. Me too. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.63,"endTime":1449.44,"body":"just quickly coming back to like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.44,"endTime":1453.04,"body":"even presentation I used to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.44,"endTime":1453.04,"body":"kind of annoyed when people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.04,"endTime":1456.76,"body":"would say like, \"You know why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.04,"endTime":1456.76,"body":"you dress up like a boy like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.76,"endTime":1460.36,"body":"what, what do you, why do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.76,"endTime":1460.36,"body":"present as a boy?\" so to speak."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1460.39,"endTime":1463.12,"body":"And I just remember you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1460.39,"endTime":1463.12,"body":"feeling kind of frustrated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1463.12,"endTime":1466.3,"body":"because it was always I just, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1463.12,"endTime":1466.3,"body":"just, I'm just dressing out like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1466.3,"endTime":1472.39,"body":"me, that happens to fall into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1466.3,"endTime":1472.39,"body":"society, society's idea of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1472.39,"endTime":1474.85,"body":"more perhaps more masculine"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1472.39,"endTime":1474.85,"body":"presentation you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.85,"endTime":1477.94,"body":"saying like, you can't just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.85,"endTime":1477.94,"body":"dress it yourself without"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1477.94,"endTime":1484.45,"body":"society having to label it in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1477.94,"endTime":1484.45,"body":"certain manner. is I think it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.45,"endTime":1487.0,"body":"let's come down to like the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.45,"endTime":1487.0,"body":"classic skirt and right why is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1487.0,"endTime":1490.33,"body":"it when a man puts on the skirt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1487.0,"endTime":1490.33,"body":"or a boy puts on a skirt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1490.87,"endTime":1494.47,"body":"suddenly everyone's oh you dress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1490.87,"endTime":1494.47,"body":"so girly. I mean, seriously,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.47,"endTime":1499.33,"body":"like pants are a modern"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.47,"endTime":1499.33,"body":"invention. Like we wore skirts,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.51,"endTime":1502.09,"body":"like for for the longest time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1499.51,"endTime":1502.09,"body":"through human history,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1502.27,"endTime":1504.34,"body":"My ancestors had some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1502.27,"endTime":1504.34,"body":"awesome tunics."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1505.06,"endTime":1508.33,"body":"And did you know that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1505.06,"endTime":1508.33,"body":"heels originated in like 1600"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1508.33,"endTime":1508.87,"body":"France."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1508.93,"endTime":1509.77,"body":"I did actually."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1509.77,"endTime":1511.51,"body":"I think the butchers"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1509.77,"endTime":1511.51,"body":"wore them. And then the king"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1511.51,"endTime":1513.64,"body":"wanted to be taller. I think it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1511.51,"endTime":1513.64,"body":"was King Louie the 16th."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1514.21,"endTime":1514.63,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1514.66,"endTime":1517.0,"body":"And so he started"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1514.66,"endTime":1517.0,"body":"wearing high heels to be taller."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1517.18,"endTime":1520.21,"body":"And then like it became all the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1517.18,"endTime":1520.21,"body":"rage for men in France to wear"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1520.21,"endTime":1523.57,"body":"high heels. And then like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1520.21,"endTime":1523.57,"body":"transition to women in the early"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1523.6,"endTime":1527.53,"body":"1900s, or late 1800s, something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1523.6,"endTime":1527.53,"body":"like that. But anyway, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1527.56,"endTime":1530.32,"body":"yeah, like a lot of a lot,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1527.56,"endTime":1530.32,"body":"especially like, I feel like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1530.32,"endTime":1534.85,"body":"lot of gender presentation comes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1530.32,"endTime":1534.85,"body":"from the way we dress. And that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1534.85,"endTime":1537.37,"body":"is all like society based."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1537.69,"endTime":1540.9,"body":"And even that term now"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1537.69,"endTime":1540.9,"body":"that I think about it. Gender"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1540.9,"endTime":1543.54,"body":"presentation. What does it even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1540.9,"endTime":1543.54,"body":"mean? I mean, we really could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1543.54,"endTime":1546.03,"body":"just say presentation, how you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1543.54,"endTime":1546.03,"body":"present as a person?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1546.06,"endTime":1546.33,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1546.36,"endTime":1548.91,"body":"What do you mean, like"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1546.36,"endTime":1548.91,"body":"gender presentation? Right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1549.24,"endTime":1549.99,"body":"It's good point."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1550.35,"endTime":1554.55,"body":"Yeah, I think it's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1550.35,"endTime":1554.55,"body":"as, as we engage with, as people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1554.55,"endTime":1557.55,"body":"engage in these conversations, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1554.55,"endTime":1557.55,"body":"just hope for people to kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1557.79,"endTime":1561.69,"body":"myself included, you know, kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1557.79,"endTime":1561.69,"body":"of question, like the way we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1561.69,"endTime":1563.67,"body":"talk about these things, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1561.69,"endTime":1563.67,"body":"question the assumptions we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1563.67,"endTime":1570.03,"body":"place on our on our ideas of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1563.67,"endTime":1570.03,"body":"presentation based on someone's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.3,"endTime":1571.47,"body":"gender identity."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1571.81,"endTime":1574.45,"body":"So Bobbi, I have a question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1571.81,"endTime":1574.45,"body":"that that kind of goes in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1574.45,"endTime":1578.41,"body":"different line. I know a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1574.45,"endTime":1578.41,"body":"younger people teens are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1578.41,"endTime":1583.69,"body":"identifying as non binary today."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1578.41,"endTime":1583.69,"body":"You know? And I hear people say,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1584.29,"endTime":1587.5,"body":"\"Oh, it's just a fad. It's just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1584.29,"endTime":1587.5,"body":"something cool. It's just a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1587.5,"endTime":1590.32,"body":"trend. It's just like the trendy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1587.5,"endTime":1590.32,"body":"thing to do.\" What would you say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1590.32,"endTime":1591.19,"body":"to someone who said that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1591.27,"endTime":1595.35,"body":"We've always existed,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1591.27,"endTime":1595.35,"body":"we were just never allowed to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1595.35,"endTime":1601.41,"body":"exist as ourselves or as openly,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1595.35,"endTime":1601.41,"body":"until we were able to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.41,"endTime":1606.57,"body":"in our own ways, in our own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.41,"endTime":1606.57,"body":"spaces, in our own social media,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.84,"endTime":1609.27,"body":"because of the knowledge that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.84,"endTime":1609.27,"body":"we've acquired, whether there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.27,"endTime":1614.85,"body":"will be through our own research"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.27,"endTime":1614.85,"body":"or speaking to others. In that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1614.85,"endTime":1618.3,"body":"sense, I think that actually has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1614.85,"endTime":1618.3,"body":"been one of like, the positives"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1618.3,"endTime":1622.02,"body":"of social media for people to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1618.3,"endTime":1622.02,"body":"able to connect with other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1622.02,"endTime":1625.32,"body":"people like them and realize"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1622.02,"endTime":1625.32,"body":"they're not the only ones. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1625.32,"endTime":1629.16,"body":"think that has definitely helped"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1625.32,"endTime":1629.16,"body":"to make these supposedly newer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1629.61,"endTime":1634.14,"body":"gender identities more real,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1629.61,"endTime":1634.14,"body":"like, I think we've always been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1634.14,"endTime":1637.29,"body":"ourselves, but were we allowed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1634.14,"endTime":1637.29,"body":"to be ourselves? I mean, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1637.29,"endTime":1640.38,"body":"might as well say like being gay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1637.29,"endTime":1640.38,"body":"is trendy. Oh, my gosh, there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1640.38,"endTime":1641.52,"body":"suddenly so many gay people."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1641.52,"endTime":1642.33,"body":"It's so trendy."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1642.33,"endTime":1643.17,"body":"We're so cool."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1644.4,"endTime":1645.57,"body":"Give us attention."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1648.27,"endTime":1652.17,"body":"Yeah, it's like we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1648.27,"endTime":1652.17,"body":"finally you know, again, for all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1652.17,"endTime":1657.15,"body":"sorts of reasons, finally have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1652.17,"endTime":1657.15,"body":"permission, or more permission"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1657.36,"endTime":1662.79,"body":"to express ourselves, to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1657.36,"endTime":1662.79,"body":"ourselves, to define ourselves."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1662.96,"endTime":1665.6,"body":"And as I'm also"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1662.96,"endTime":1665.6,"body":"thinking, like, from a societal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1665.6,"endTime":1669.02,"body":"perspective, I'm not even really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1665.6,"endTime":1669.02,"body":"sure what the big deal is,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1669.05,"endTime":1672.95,"body":"because like, in a lot of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1669.05,"endTime":1672.95,"body":"it doesn't affect someone's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1673.01,"endTime":1677.24,"body":"value or worth, like, the way"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1673.01,"endTime":1677.24,"body":"they identify, or what they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1677.24,"endTime":1679.94,"body":"comfortable with, or how they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1677.24,"endTime":1679.94,"body":"present. And it doesn't really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1679.94,"endTime":1683.3,"body":"affect, like, their job"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1679.94,"endTime":1683.3,"body":"capabilities, or their"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1683.3,"endTime":1686.3,"body":"intelligence, or like any of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1683.3,"endTime":1686.3,"body":"these factors, like contribute"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1686.3,"endTime":1689.63,"body":"positively to society, aren't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1686.3,"endTime":1689.63,"body":"really affected by someone's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1689.63,"endTime":1694.13,"body":"identity, even like sex and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1689.63,"endTime":1694.13,"body":"like, with transgender issues,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1694.13,"endTime":1696.83,"body":"like unless you're in a sexual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1694.13,"endTime":1696.83,"body":"relationship with that person,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1696.83,"endTime":1701.12,"body":"like, why does it matter if you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1696.83,"endTime":1701.12,"body":"know what's going on? You know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1701.15,"endTime":1704.27,"body":"it like, like, it doesn't, a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1701.15,"endTime":1704.27,"body":"of it's just like, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1704.27,"endTime":1706.97,"body":"like a weird curiosity, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1704.27,"endTime":1706.97,"body":"like, it doesn't matter. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1706.97,"endTime":1710.45,"body":"you're not gonna, like, ask"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1706.97,"endTime":1710.45,"body":"someone intimate questions about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1710.45,"endTime":1713.93,"body":"their body, if, unless it's like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1710.45,"endTime":1713.93,"body":"your business, you know. So a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1713.93,"endTime":1716.6,"body":"lot of it, I just think, I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1713.93,"endTime":1716.6,"body":"know, like, maybe it's just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1716.6,"endTime":1720.2,"body":"people being uncomfortable with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1716.6,"endTime":1720.2,"body":"new terms, or like challenging"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1720.2,"endTime":1724.7,"body":"gender stereotypes. But I'm just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1720.2,"endTime":1724.7,"body":"like, I don't really see how any"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1724.7,"endTime":1727.25,"body":"of these identities that we've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1724.7,"endTime":1727.25,"body":"ever talked about on this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1727.25,"endTime":1730.82,"body":"podcast, like, inhibit someone's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1727.25,"endTime":1730.82,"body":"ability to contribute to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1730.82,"endTime":1731.48,"body":"society."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.93,"endTime":1734.15,"body":"I'm so glad you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.93,"endTime":1734.15,"body":"expressed all of that. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.15,"endTime":1735.92,"body":"couldn't have said it better"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1734.15,"endTime":1735.92,"body":"myself. But that is actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1735.92,"endTime":1737.09,"body":"something I think a lot about."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1737.27,"endTime":1740.33,"body":"Like, Who cares? If"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1737.27,"endTime":1740.33,"body":"you're non binary, agender and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1740.33,"endTime":1744.83,"body":"I'm gay, like, cool. We're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1740.33,"endTime":1744.83,"body":"friends. Let's go get lunch. You"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1744.83,"endTime":1745.1,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1745.79,"endTime":1746.06,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1746.029,"endTime":1747.979,"body":"One thing I've learned. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1746.029,"endTime":1747.979,"body":"have, I have a student Well, a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1747.979,"endTime":1751.789,"body":"few students who identify as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1747.979,"endTime":1751.789,"body":"transgender and, and I have my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1751.789,"endTime":1755.419,"body":"classes on zoom. And so you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1751.789,"endTime":1755.419,"body":"know, I have my name. And one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.79,"endTime":1782.45,"body":"And it helps to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1754.79,"endTime":1782.45,"body":"normalize it. I think it's often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1755.419,"endTime":1758.479,"body":"them said, said once that it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1755.419,"endTime":1758.479,"body":"just really meaningful for them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.479,"endTime":1761.809,"body":"when someone puts their pronouns"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.479,"endTime":1761.809,"body":"after their name. Like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1761.809,"endTime":1764.329,"body":"think I need to do much to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1761.809,"endTime":1764.329,"body":"present as male I think people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1764.719,"endTime":1767.269,"body":"know that like to see me as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1764.719,"endTime":1767.269,"body":"man. And so I didn't really feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1767.269,"endTime":1769.579,"body":"the need to do that. But then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1767.269,"endTime":1769.579,"body":"when when my students said that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1769.579,"endTime":1771.679,"body":"that was really meaningful to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1769.579,"endTime":1771.679,"body":"them that well, if it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1771.679,"endTime":1774.889,"body":"meaningful to them, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1771.679,"endTime":1774.889,"body":"do it because if it if it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1774.889,"endTime":1777.229,"body":"something that they care about,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1774.889,"endTime":1777.229,"body":"then it's it's worth it for me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1777.229,"endTime":1779.239,"body":"to put a couple extra letters"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1777.229,"endTime":1779.239,"body":"after my name."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1782.45,"endTime":1788.0,"body":"very hard for non binary folks,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1782.45,"endTime":1788.0,"body":"especially to kind of make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1788.0,"endTime":1791.63,"body":"known, not necessarily not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1788.0,"endTime":1791.63,"body":"necessarily like, what our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1791.63,"endTime":1796.37,"body":"identity is, but to make known"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1791.63,"endTime":1796.37,"body":"the pronouns we go by. And so if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1796.37,"endTime":1800.21,"body":"it's normalized, then, like it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1796.37,"endTime":1800.21,"body":"doesn't put anyone on the spot."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1800.54,"endTime":1804.23,"body":"Is it, is it difficult"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1800.54,"endTime":1804.23,"body":"to identify by pronouns that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1804.23,"endTime":1808.01,"body":"also can be referred to as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1804.23,"endTime":1808.01,"body":"plural? Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1808.19,"endTime":1811.67,"body":"And just maybe this is a bad"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1808.19,"endTime":1811.67,"body":"question, but I'm just like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1811.88,"endTime":1816.59,"body":"like he she pronouns are like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1811.88,"endTime":1816.59,"body":"always singular to one person,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1816.62,"endTime":1820.7,"body":"but they them pronouns could"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1816.62,"endTime":1820.7,"body":"either be like an individual or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.7,"endTime":1821.24,"body":"a group."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1821.27,"endTime":1823.85,"body":"Right. So you kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1821.27,"endTime":1823.85,"body":"referring to like the group they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1823.85,"endTime":1824.99,"body":"or the singular they."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1825.02,"endTime":1825.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1825.92,"endTime":1831.47,"body":"So for people who are"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1825.92,"endTime":1831.47,"body":"trying to get used to using"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1831.47,"endTime":1833.81,"body":"singular they/them pronouns,"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1831.47,"endTime":1833.81,"body":"first of all, I applaud you for"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1833.81,"endTime":1838.22,"body":"trying. People like me, thank"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1833.81,"endTime":1838.22,"body":"you very much. And second of"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1838.22,"endTime":1842.78,"body":"all, perhaps an example to help"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1838.22,"endTime":1842.78,"body":"aid you in this getting used to,"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1843.05,"endTime":1846.47,"body":"I call it the like the wallet,"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1843.05,"endTime":1846.47,"body":"the lost wallet example. Like if"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1846.47,"endTime":1849.83,"body":"someone had left their wallet on"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1846.47,"endTime":1849.83,"body":"the table. And I think very"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1849.83,"endTime":1852.86,"body":"often, we would simply say, who"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1849.83,"endTime":1852.86,"body":"left their wallet here? Are they"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1852.86,"endTime":1856.58,"body":"going to come back for it?"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1852.86,"endTime":1856.58,"body":"Right, yeah. And just like that,"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1856.61,"endTime":1859.97,"body":"literally, I mean, you you don't"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1856.61,"endTime":1859.97,"body":"know the gender of the person"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1859.97,"endTime":1863.66,"body":"who left your wallet there."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1859.97,"endTime":1863.66,"body":"Right, their wallet, who loved"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1863.66,"endTime":1867.53,"body":"their wallet, I don't know, you"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1863.66,"endTime":1867.53,"body":"know, let's go find them. And"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1867.53,"endTime":1870.35,"body":"they're, I mean, then, without"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1867.53,"endTime":1870.35,"body":"even trying, you have already"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":1870.35,"endTime":1872.18,"body":"you singular they them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1872.75,"endTime":1874.82,"body":"Nice. I like that. Good"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1872.75,"endTime":1874.82,"body":"job."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1874.82,"endTime":1877.01,"body":"We are smart, we don't even"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1874.82,"endTime":1877.01,"body":"realize how we can use a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1877.01,"endTime":1877.52,"body":"singular they/them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1879.08,"endTime":1881.21,"body":"Thanks for sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1879.08,"endTime":1881.21,"body":"that. That's helpful. So Ben and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1881.21,"endTime":1884.51,"body":"I were recently on a panel with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1881.21,"endTime":1884.51,"body":"with a transgender man, and he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1884.51,"endTime":1887.99,"body":"was like, he's fully"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1884.51,"endTime":1887.99,"body":"transitioned, and he passes very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1887.99,"endTime":1892.37,"body":"well as male. And he was kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1887.99,"endTime":1892.37,"body":"talking about like, passing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1892.37,"endTime":1896.36,"body":"privilege. And he said that he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1892.37,"endTime":1896.36,"body":"hardly ever gets misgendered. Or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1896.39,"endTime":1900.26,"body":"nobody ever uses the, like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1896.39,"endTime":1900.26,"body":"wrong pronoun, because he just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1900.29,"endTime":1904.16,"body":"looks so masculine male, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1900.29,"endTime":1904.16,"body":"people just accept Him as male"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1904.16,"endTime":1907.61,"body":"now. That also made me think of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1904.16,"endTime":1907.61,"body":"like, what it's like to not be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1907.64,"endTime":1913.49,"body":"on that side of things where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1907.64,"endTime":1913.49,"body":"maybe people aren't sure or, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.49,"endTime":1916.28,"body":"you are misgendered, or the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.49,"endTime":1916.28,"body":"wrong pronouns are used. And,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1916.61,"endTime":1918.44,"body":"and I'm wondering if you could"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1916.61,"endTime":1918.44,"body":"speak to that a little bit."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1918.87,"endTime":1922.2,"body":"The nice part of it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1918.87,"endTime":1922.2,"body":"because of my, perhaps you might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1922.2,"endTime":1926.52,"body":"say, yeah, my presentation, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1922.2,"endTime":1926.52,"body":"also my, what actually, we'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1926.52,"endTime":1931.38,"body":"call like my physique privilege,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1926.52,"endTime":1931.38,"body":"I know that I am fortunate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1931.38,"endTime":1934.41,"body":"enough to have for the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1931.38,"endTime":1934.41,"body":"part, the physique that I am"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.41,"endTime":1938.82,"body":"comfortable with, which happens"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.41,"endTime":1938.82,"body":"to be pretty androgynous. So it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1939.15,"endTime":1942.72,"body":"helps me to feel more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1939.15,"endTime":1942.72,"body":"comfortable as a non binary and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1942.75,"endTime":1946.95,"body":"specifically agender person. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1942.75,"endTime":1946.95,"body":"the other flip side of that ends"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1946.95,"endTime":1951.36,"body":"up being a lot of people often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1946.95,"endTime":1951.36,"body":"do misgender me as male, or as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1951.36,"endTime":1955.86,"body":"a, as a boy, or as a man,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1951.36,"endTime":1955.86,"body":"actually, often as a gay boy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.89,"endTime":1962.28,"body":"specifically. You know, my very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.89,"endTime":1962.28,"body":"clean shaven face, and probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1962.28,"endTime":1966.75,"body":"a Twinkie of sorts, I suppose."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1962.28,"endTime":1966.75,"body":"Probably does not make my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.75,"endTime":1969.87,"body":"parents happy. But yeah, sorry,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.75,"endTime":1969.87,"body":"real funny story about that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.87,"endTime":1972.57,"body":"once told them, like, oh boy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.87,"endTime":1972.57,"body":"asked me for my number. And they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.57,"endTime":1974.91,"body":"were like, oh, this was before I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.57,"endTime":1974.91,"body":"came out, and they were like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.91,"endTime":1978.03,"body":"you know, a little bit excited."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.91,"endTime":1978.03,"body":"And then well, turns out because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1978.03,"endTime":1983.97,"body":"he thought I was a boy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1983.97,"endTime":1984.45,"body":"Awkward."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1984.45,"endTime":1987.54,"body":"They did not think that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1984.45,"endTime":1987.54,"body":"was funny. But anyway, started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.54,"endTime":1990.93,"body":"coming back to this. So you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.54,"endTime":1990.93,"body":"know, for me, I kind of take it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1990.93,"endTime":1993.75,"body":"in my stride, because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1990.93,"endTime":1993.75,"body":"recognize it can, it can be hard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.75,"endTime":1998.04,"body":"to tell largely, honestly,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.75,"endTime":1998.04,"body":"largely, because the non non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1998.04,"endTime":2002.9,"body":"binary identities are still not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1998.04,"endTime":2002.9,"body":"as prevalent or as known, or as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.35,"endTime":2006.23,"body":"it is not as recognized,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.35,"endTime":2006.23,"body":"especially with the older"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2006.23,"endTime":2009.77,"body":"generation, I think most of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2006.23,"endTime":2009.77,"body":"their peers probably do just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2009.77,"endTime":2013.55,"body":"identify as, you know, as a man"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2009.77,"endTime":2013.55,"body":"or a woman, or as you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.55,"endTime":2017.66,"body":"girls and boys. So it seems and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.55,"endTime":2017.66,"body":"being non binary, really is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2017.66,"endTime":2022.55,"body":"quite a foreign concept to them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2017.66,"endTime":2022.55,"body":"So anyway, just to explain that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2022.55,"endTime":2027.65,"body":"point. But specifically"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2022.55,"endTime":2027.65,"body":"pertaining to circles where non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2027.65,"endTime":2033.14,"body":"binary identities are now more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2027.65,"endTime":2033.14,"body":"prominent, has also, in some way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2033.14,"endTime":2038.99,"body":"created create an issue with how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2033.14,"endTime":2038.99,"body":"do you have to present in order"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2038.99,"endTime":2043.34,"body":"to be considered non binary? And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2038.99,"endTime":2043.34,"body":"in itself it's like a terrible"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2043.34,"endTime":2047.63,"body":"question. Because kind of coming"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2043.34,"endTime":2047.63,"body":"back to our earlier conversation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2047.63,"endTime":2048.02,"body":"about..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2048.89,"endTime":2051.35,"body":"Well, it's like if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2048.89,"endTime":2051.35,"body":"you're, if the whole point is to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2051.35,"endTime":2055.85,"body":"reject the binary, then why are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2051.35,"endTime":2055.85,"body":"you trying to superimpose the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2055.85,"endTime":2058.73,"body":"binary, the binary on the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2055.85,"endTime":2058.73,"body":"rejection of the binary?"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2058.76,"endTime":2059.39,"body":"Exactly?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2060.11,"endTime":2062.12,"body":"Well my understanding is,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2060.11,"endTime":2062.12,"body":"it's not so much of rejection,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2062.12,"endTime":2064.43,"body":"but just like, I don't need to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2062.12,"endTime":2064.43,"body":"fit."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2064.46,"endTime":2066.86,"body":"Yeah, like if you don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2064.46,"endTime":2066.86,"body":"fit in the binary, then like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2067.19,"endTime":2069.74,"body":"and you're not fitting the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2067.19,"endTime":2069.74,"body":"binary, you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2070.01,"endTime":2072.77,"body":"superimpose the binary like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2070.01,"endTime":2072.77,"body":"ooh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2073.1,"endTime":2076.07,"body":"It's like, I, there's no"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2073.1,"endTime":2076.07,"body":"way I should present. I'm just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2076.07,"endTime":2078.65,"body":"going to present the way that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2076.07,"endTime":2078.65,"body":"feels comfortable to me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.69,"endTime":2080.85,"body":"You would think there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.69,"endTime":2080.85,"body":"would be like a more like fluid"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2080.85,"endTime":2085.14,"body":"spectrum to present as a non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2080.85,"endTime":2085.14,"body":"binary person. And so not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2085.17,"endTime":2088.74,"body":"exactly. Well, I mean, you both"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2085.17,"endTime":2088.74,"body":"got it right away. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2088.74,"endTime":2093.18,"body":"there is, and so like, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2088.74,"endTime":2093.18,"body":"reverse side of that is often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.36,"endTime":2097.8,"body":"what has become the stereotype"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.36,"endTime":2097.8,"body":"for non binary folks is do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2097.8,"endTime":2103.26,"body":"look androgynous enough? Do you,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2097.8,"endTime":2103.26,"body":"do you look ambiguous enough."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2103.89,"endTime":2108.03,"body":"Again a very silly concept if we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2103.89,"endTime":2108.03,"body":"are rejecting the binaries"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.03,"endTime":2111.69,"body":"altogether as a non binary"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.03,"endTime":2111.69,"body":"person and i want to speak to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2111.69,"endTime":2116.04,"body":"this because because it is it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2111.69,"endTime":2116.04,"body":"it has become an issue i mean"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2116.04,"endTime":2119.04,"body":"this issue just to back up a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2116.04,"endTime":2119.04,"body":"little i mean has there's just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2119.04,"endTime":2122.88,"body":"lot actually even in the binary"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2119.04,"endTime":2122.88,"body":"trends the binary trans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2122.88,"endTime":2127.68,"body":"community where if you don't for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2122.88,"endTime":2127.68,"body":"example if you're like a trans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2127.68,"endTime":2134.1,"body":"if you identify as a trans woman"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2127.68,"endTime":2134.1,"body":"but you don't pass as a woman or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2134.1,"endTime":2138.93,"body":"you can't pass as a trans woman"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2134.1,"endTime":2138.93,"body":"and then there might or there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2138.93,"endTime":2142.92,"body":"has been people who who say like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2138.93,"endTime":2142.92,"body":"oh you're not really you're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2142.92,"endTime":2146.22,"body":"really a trans woman you know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2142.92,"endTime":2146.22,"body":"when because you don't look it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2147.21,"endTime":2151.59,"body":"And the same goes for trans men"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2147.21,"endTime":2151.59,"body":"and one of the biggest problems"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2151.59,"endTime":2154.95,"body":"about this too is also well not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2151.59,"endTime":2154.95,"body":"not just because not everybody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2154.95,"endTime":2160.71,"body":"might want to pass a large part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2154.95,"endTime":2160.71,"body":"of it too is a lot of people may"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2160.71,"endTime":2164.58,"body":"not have the accessibility to..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2165.15,"endTime":2167.49,"body":"Well it takes a certain"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2165.15,"endTime":2167.49,"body":"privilege to be able to look and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2167.49,"endTime":2170.49,"body":"dress and like even if you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2167.49,"endTime":2170.49,"body":"doing some sort of like medical"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2170.49,"endTime":2174.54,"body":"transition like it takes money"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2170.49,"endTime":2174.54,"body":"it takes time resources and not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2174.54,"endTime":2176.46,"body":"everyone has access to that is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2174.54,"endTime":2176.46,"body":"that what you're trying to say?"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2176.42,"endTime":2179.39,"body":"Yes yes so there are some"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2176.42,"endTime":2179.39,"body":"people who who may not even want"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2179.39,"endTime":2183.89,"body":"to transition but for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2179.39,"endTime":2183.89,"body":"people who do want to it is not"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2183.89,"endTime":2187.64,"body":"accessible passing or"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2183.89,"endTime":2187.64,"body":"transitioning is not assess is"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2187.64,"endTime":2191.51,"body":"not accessible they don't have"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2187.64,"endTime":2191.51,"body":"that privilege to financial"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2191.51,"endTime":2196.4,"body":"resources to to necessary"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2191.51,"endTime":2196.4,"body":"procedures to help them to"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2196.4,"endTime":2200.45,"body":"better pass should they want to"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2196.4,"endTime":2200.45,"body":"and often it is a white"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2200.45,"endTime":2205.16,"body":"privilege to have access to"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2200.45,"endTime":2205.16,"body":"these resources especially"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2205.16,"endTime":2208.67,"body":"regarding trans people of color"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2205.16,"endTime":2208.67,"body":"i mean as a transgender"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2208.67,"endTime":2211.91,"body":"community they really fall into"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2208.67,"endTime":2211.91,"body":"like lower socio economic"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2211.91,"endTime":2215.57,"body":"demographics and then to add to"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2211.91,"endTime":2215.57,"body":"that being people of color as"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2215.57,"endTime":2218.96,"body":"well and then to add to that"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2215.57,"endTime":2218.96,"body":"trans people of color have like"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2218.99,"endTime":2223.07,"body":"the highest rates of like murder"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2218.99,"endTime":2223.07,"body":"and assault in the country. A"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2223.07,"endTime":2227.63,"body":"lot of time like people don't"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2223.07,"endTime":2227.63,"body":"understand them. People feel"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2227.63,"endTime":2231.71,"body":"uncomfortable around them."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2227.63,"endTime":2231.71,"body":"People don't see them as valid"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2231.71,"endTime":2232.43,"body":"humans."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2233.3,"endTime":2236.48,"body":"We need to be a lot better"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2233.3,"endTime":2236.48,"body":"as a society of accepting people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2236.48,"endTime":2239.51,"body":"who might not look or act or or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2236.48,"endTime":2239.51,"body":"think like us."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2239.96,"endTime":2242.18,"body":"And so i just i kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2239.96,"endTime":2242.18,"body":"want to just let viewers know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2242.18,"endTime":2245.12,"body":"that like however someone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2242.18,"endTime":2245.12,"body":"chooses to identify like don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2245.12,"endTime":2249.47,"body":"expect a certain kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2245.12,"endTime":2249.47,"body":"presentation from them whether"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2249.47,"endTime":2254.72,"body":"they be binary trans or non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2249.47,"endTime":2254.72,"body":"binary trans folks are just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2254.72,"endTime":2255.86,"body":"simply non binary."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2256.97,"endTime":2259.82,"body":"So as we're kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2256.97,"endTime":2259.82,"body":"winding down and wrapping things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2259.82,"endTime":2263.51,"body":"up one of the main thing, themes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2259.82,"endTime":2263.51,"body":"in what you say that keeps"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2263.51,"endTime":2265.76,"body":"coming back to me is just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2263.51,"endTime":2265.76,"body":"allowing a sense of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2265.76,"endTime":2269.39,"body":"individuality in others and not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2265.76,"endTime":2269.39,"body":"like super imposing your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2269.39,"endTime":2273.8,"body":"expectations of what someone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2269.39,"endTime":2273.8,"body":"should be on to them but just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2274.58,"endTime":2278.18,"body":"almost like just accepting a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2274.58,"endTime":2278.18,"body":"person as they are and however"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2278.18,"endTime":2281.99,"body":"they choose to present or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2278.18,"endTime":2281.99,"body":"however they and here i am using"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2281.99,"endTime":2285.92,"body":"the singular they it's really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2281.99,"endTime":2285.92,"body":"not that hard turns out but like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2285.92,"endTime":2289.01,"body":"whoever they are just just let"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2285.92,"endTime":2289.01,"body":"them be that and almost like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2289.07,"endTime":2291.95,"body":"don't make assumptions about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2289.07,"endTime":2291.95,"body":"someone before you get to know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2291.95,"endTime":2295.49,"body":"them and let them teach you who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2291.95,"endTime":2295.49,"body":"who they are by association."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2296.36,"endTime":2299.39,"body":"I've also heard you say a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2296.36,"endTime":2299.39,"body":"number of times that we should"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2299.39,"endTime":2303.56,"body":"feel comfortable not having to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2299.39,"endTime":2303.56,"body":"conform to an expectation that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2303.56,"endTime":2304.64,"body":"feels uncomfortable."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2305.36,"endTime":2307.25,"body":"I like that. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2305.36,"endTime":2307.25,"body":"for sharing all of that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.45,"endTime":2310.57,"body":"Oh absolutely I still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2307.45,"endTime":2310.57,"body":"remember you had one question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.57,"endTime":2314.02,"body":"about the whole personality"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.57,"endTime":2314.02,"body":"thing. That, that was fun. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2314.02,"endTime":2317.32,"body":"like, what parts of all these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2314.02,"endTime":2317.32,"body":"things could just be also just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2317.32,"endTime":2318.76,"body":"my personality? You remember"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2317.32,"endTime":2318.76,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2319.38,"endTime":2322.95,"body":"Oh but but my point"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2319.38,"endTime":2322.95,"body":"that I was gonna make there's so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2323.25,"endTime":2327.21,"body":"i was thinking about like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2323.25,"endTime":2327.21,"body":"ways that I am sometimes gender"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2327.21,"endTime":2330.21,"body":"non conforming and how like and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2327.21,"endTime":2330.21,"body":"I don't know if it's just my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2330.21,"endTime":2333.3,"body":"personality or if it goes back"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2330.21,"endTime":2333.3,"body":"into my sexual orientation but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2333.3,"endTime":2337.2,"body":"there's there's aspects of me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2333.3,"endTime":2337.2,"body":"that tend to be more feminine"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2337.41,"endTime":2341.49,"body":"depending on like the sometimes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2337.41,"endTime":2341.49,"body":"aesthetics I like, or music I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2341.49,"endTime":2345.24,"body":"listen to, entertainment that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2341.49,"endTime":2345.24,"body":"that I take in. Like gender non"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2345.24,"endTime":2349.44,"body":"conforming like as gender non"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2345.24,"endTime":2349.44,"body":"conforming as i could possibly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2349.44,"endTime":2353.58,"body":"be like I could dress up as a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2349.44,"endTime":2353.58,"body":"girl like I could be in in full"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2353.58,"endTime":2357.0,"body":"drag doing something very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2353.58,"endTime":2357.0,"body":"feminine stereotypically but I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2357.0,"endTime":2361.41,"body":"still wouldn't be transgender I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2357.0,"endTime":2361.41,"body":"still wouldn't be non binary"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2361.86,"endTime":2364.14,"body":"like like there's and that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2361.86,"endTime":2364.14,"body":"what I was trying to say. That"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2364.14,"endTime":2367.77,"body":"there's something deeper than"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2364.14,"endTime":2367.77,"body":"just presentation or interest or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2367.77,"endTime":2372.24,"body":"personality. From talking to you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2367.77,"endTime":2372.24,"body":"and talking to other non binary"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2372.24,"endTime":2375.69,"body":"or trans people I know it's not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2372.24,"endTime":2375.69,"body":"just like femininity versus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2375.69,"endTime":2380.19,"body":"masculinity it feels much deeper"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2375.69,"endTime":2380.19,"body":"than that and when I'm with you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2380.19,"endTime":2385.56,"body":"I don't know how to describe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2380.19,"endTime":2385.56,"body":"what it is but but it feels"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2385.59,"endTime":2387.21,"body":"there. Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2387.54,"endTime":2390.9,"body":"It actually does yeah"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2387.54,"endTime":2390.9,"body":"really I think you explained all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2390.9,"endTime":2391.56,"body":"that really well"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2391.92,"endTime":2393.12,"body":"And not nonbinary."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2393.48,"endTime":2395.4,"body":"You don't see yourself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2393.48,"endTime":2395.4,"body":"that way. At the end of the day"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.4,"endTime":2398.73,"body":"is how you see yourself it can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.4,"endTime":2398.73,"body":"be all those things but at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2398.73,"endTime":2400.17,"body":"end of the day how do you see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2398.73,"endTime":2400.17,"body":"yourself?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2404.35,"body":"Yeah and again that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2404.35,"body":"just like who a person is and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2404.35,"endTime":2406.36,"body":"think that's a really nice I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2404.35,"endTime":2406.36,"body":"like the way you said that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.41,"endTime":2454.72,"body":"Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.41,"endTime":2454.72,"body":"asking this. So for me my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2406.36,"endTime":2409.78,"body":"because it kind of like boils"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2406.36,"endTime":2409.78,"body":"away all these like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2410.14,"endTime":2413.38,"body":"complications with presentation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2410.14,"endTime":2413.38,"body":"and femininity and masculinity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.38,"endTime":2418.54,"body":"just like who you are is who you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.38,"endTime":2418.54,"body":"are and like hopefully people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2418.54,"endTime":2422.5,"body":"can be comfortable and confident"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2418.54,"endTime":2422.5,"body":"in that and then also as like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.53,"endTime":2425.95,"body":"Latter-day Saints as a community"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.53,"endTime":2425.95,"body":"and as a society hopefully we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2425.95,"endTime":2429.94,"body":"can make space where people can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2425.95,"endTime":2429.94,"body":"be confident in who they are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.94,"endTime":2434.11,"body":"nd still feel valued and loved"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.94,"endTime":2434.11,"body":"nd respected So going back to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2434.11,"endTime":2436.99,"body":"ike terminology I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2434.11,"endTime":2436.99,"body":"bout how a lot of the terms we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2436.99,"endTime":2440.47,"body":"se in society are gendered and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2436.99,"endTime":2440.47,"body":"'m thinking about like, like my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2440.47,"endTime":2443.47,"body":"brother, my sister, my daughter,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2440.47,"endTime":2443.47,"body":"my son. So how does your fa"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2443.47,"endTime":2448.57,"body":"ily refer to you because it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2443.47,"endTime":2448.57,"body":"ike they/them pronoun but also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2449.47,"endTime":2450.37,"body":"t's, does that make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2454.75,"endTime":2458.74,"body":"parents still refers refer to me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2454.75,"endTime":2458.74,"body":"as their daughter and my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2458.74,"endTime":2463.51,"body":"brothers refer to me as their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2458.74,"endTime":2463.51,"body":"sister and in fact in the future"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2463.69,"endTime":2469.18,"body":"I would refer to myself as a mom"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2463.69,"endTime":2469.18,"body":"when I have kids. And for me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2469.78,"endTime":2475.0,"body":"that's okay because to me these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2469.78,"endTime":2475.0,"body":"because of my personal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2475.0,"endTime":2479.83,"body":"experiences these terms have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2475.0,"endTime":2479.83,"body":"meanings that are very special"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2479.83,"endTime":2485.44,"body":"to me so I used to see myself as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2479.83,"endTime":2485.44,"body":"my parents daughter as my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.44,"endTime":2490.69,"body":"brother's sister. I have just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.44,"endTime":2490.69,"body":"loved the way my mother was and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2490.69,"endTime":2494.08,"body":"I really do look forward to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2490.69,"endTime":2494.08,"body":"motherhood with all that being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2494.08,"endTime":2497.98,"body":"said why this was such a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2494.08,"endTime":2497.98,"body":"question from Charlie is because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2498.58,"endTime":2502.66,"body":"how I feel about this can be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2498.58,"endTime":2502.66,"body":"very different from how other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2502.66,"endTime":2508.51,"body":"non binary individuals feel in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2502.66,"endTime":2508.51,"body":"fact a lot of them do prefer to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2508.51,"endTime":2514.87,"body":"go by gender neutral family"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2508.51,"endTime":2514.87,"body":"terms like being their parents'"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2514.87,"endTime":2520.63,"body":"child being their brother's or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2514.87,"endTime":2520.63,"body":"sister's sibling being or simply"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2520.63,"endTime":2523.54,"body":"you know for people who have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2520.63,"endTime":2523.54,"body":"kids simply being a parent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2523.57,"endTime":2529.06,"body":"rather than specifically being a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2523.57,"endTime":2529.06,"body":"mother or father so really the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2529.06,"endTime":2532.03,"body":"only you know the best way to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2529.06,"endTime":2532.03,"body":"know is just to ask."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2532.0,"endTime":2534.88,"body":"And that kind of goes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2532.0,"endTime":2534.88,"body":"into like the plural and the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2534.88,"endTime":2538.42,"body":"singular they/them in the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2534.88,"endTime":2538.42,"body":"way like if you don't know the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2538.42,"endTime":2541.27,"body":"gender of someone's child you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2538.42,"endTime":2541.27,"body":"not like do you have any"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2541.27,"endTime":2544.21,"body":"daughters you're like do you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2541.27,"endTime":2544.21,"body":"have any kids you know and then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2544.21,"endTime":2547.75,"body":"they can that opens opportunity"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2544.21,"endTime":2547.75,"body":"for them to specify either way"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2547.9,"endTime":2548.95,"body":"so that makes sense to me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2549.13,"endTime":2553.9,"body":"Yeah I think in general"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2549.13,"endTime":2553.9,"body":"too like in how we as a way of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2553.9,"endTime":2557.44,"body":"like how are we as society can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2553.9,"endTime":2557.44,"body":"also do better through gender"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2557.47,"endTime":2562.3,"body":"inclusive language and it's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2557.47,"endTime":2562.3,"body":"simply kind of let what Charlie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2562.3,"endTime":2568.42,"body":"was saying like especially even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2562.3,"endTime":2568.42,"body":"within like the LGB communities"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2568.93,"endTime":2574.21,"body":"for someone to us and if you are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2568.93,"endTime":2574.21,"body":"bringing you know if you are a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.21,"endTime":2578.89,"body":"boy you know instead of asking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.21,"endTime":2578.89,"body":"like oh like is there a cute"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2578.89,"endTime":2581.71,"body":"girl you're seeing you could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2578.89,"endTime":2581.71,"body":"just be like oh is this someone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2581.71,"endTime":2582.31,"body":"you're seeing?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2582.88,"endTime":2585.94,"body":"I'm totally, I, I will"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2582.88,"endTime":2585.94,"body":"shout out from the rooftops."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2585.94,"endTime":2588.31,"body":"It's so much better because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2585.94,"endTime":2588.31,"body":"people like, \"Oh so do you have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2588.31,"endTime":2591.67,"body":"a girlfriend?\" I'm like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2588.31,"endTime":2591.67,"body":"\"Really?\" Like it would be nice"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2591.67,"endTime":2593.5,"body":"like, \"Are you saying anyone?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2591.67,"endTime":2593.5,"body":"Are you interested in anyone?\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2593.5,"endTime":2596.71,"body":"like gender neutral terms are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2593.5,"endTime":2596.71,"body":"super helpful to me there and so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2596.71,"endTime":2598.63,"body":"i can't imagine how much more it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2596.71,"endTime":2598.63,"body":"would be for you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2600.31,"endTime":2603.97,"body":"Or even introducing him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2600.31,"endTime":2603.97,"body":"or not introducing like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.97,"endTime":2608.5,"body":"welcoming group of people we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.97,"endTime":2608.5,"body":"tend to go ladies and gentlemen"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2609.43,"endTime":2609.97,"body":"or..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2610.0,"endTime":2610.9,"body":"Brothers and sisters."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2610.9,"endTime":2614.41,"body":"Brothers and sisters or"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2610.9,"endTime":2614.41,"body":"boys and girls when we could be"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2614.41,"endTime":2618.16,"body":"like welcome everyone. On this"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2614.41,"endTime":2618.16,"body":"note i would love to share a"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2618.16,"endTime":2618.79,"body":"story."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2618.88,"endTime":2619.54,"body":"Please do."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2620.08,"endTime":2624.28,"body":"So i know that it can be"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2620.08,"endTime":2624.28,"body":"tricky often for some of us"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2624.37,"endTime":2628.39,"body":"including me to know the"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2624.37,"endTime":2628.39,"body":"correct, how to address someone"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2629.47,"endTime":2632.77,"body":"correctly.So especially I think"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2629.47,"endTime":2632.77,"body":"in a world of customer service"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2632.83,"endTime":2637.12,"body":"that can be really tricky and"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2632.83,"endTime":2637.12,"body":"essentially one day I'm at Costa"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2637.12,"endTime":2641.89,"body":"Vida. I've pretty much always"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2637.12,"endTime":2641.89,"body":"have been misgendered as you"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2641.89,"endTime":2645.58,"body":"know as previously mentioned"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2641.89,"endTime":2645.58,"body":"often more often than not as as"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2645.58,"endTime":2650.83,"body":"male so so people would say, Hi"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2645.58,"endTime":2650.83,"body":"sir. How may i help you?\" and so"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2650.83,"endTime":2653.65,"body":"I'm here standing in line at"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2650.83,"endTime":2653.65,"body":"Costa Vida the person in front"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2653.65,"endTime":2657.43,"body":"of me just got done being helped"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2653.65,"endTime":2657.43,"body":"and I walk up to the line and I"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2657.76,"endTime":2660.91,"body":"again fully expect most likely"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2657.76,"endTime":2660.91,"body":"to be referred to as sir and"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2660.91,"endTime":2663.88,"body":"this man looks at me he goes"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2660.91,"endTime":2663.88,"body":"\"How may i help you...\" and in a"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2663.88,"endTime":2667.87,"body":"split second he goes"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2663.88,"endTime":2667.87,"body":"\"...friend?\" and it completely"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2667.87,"endTime":2671.47,"body":"changed my life. I remember"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2667.87,"endTime":2671.47,"body":"grinning from ear to ear for"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2671.47,"endTime":2676.93,"body":"like the rest of the day because"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2671.47,"endTime":2676.93,"body":"I was like that's the word if"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2676.93,"endTime":2679.45,"body":"you're ever unsure just say"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2676.93,"endTime":2679.45,"body":"friend."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2680.41,"endTime":2681.94,"body":"That's beautiful thanks"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2680.41,"endTime":2681.94,"body":"for sharing that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2682.18,"endTime":2684.61,"body":"Well Bobbi thank you so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2682.18,"endTime":2684.61,"body":"much for sharing your life and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2684.61,"endTime":2686.89,"body":"your experiences with us and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2684.61,"endTime":2686.89,"body":"your wisdom. We appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2687.04,"endTime":2688.69,"body":"You're welcome. Thanks"},{"speaker":"Bobbi","startTime":2687.04,"endTime":2688.69,"body":"for having me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2690.46,"endTime":2692.53,"body":"Thank you for joining us"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2690.46,"endTime":2692.53,"body":"today. If you've enjoyed this or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2692.53,"endTime":2695.26,"body":"other episodes please consider"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2692.53,"endTime":2695.26,"body":"leaving a review following us on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2695.26,"endTime":2698.83,"body":"Instagram or Facebook @questi"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2695.26,"endTime":2698.83,"body":"nsfromthecloset or sharing thi"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2698.83,"endTime":2701.38,"body":"podcast with someone you lov"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2698.83,"endTime":2701.38,"body":". And as always, please re"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2701.38,"endTime":2703.39,"body":"ember that we do not re"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2701.38,"endTime":2703.39,"body":"resent the Church of Jesus Ch"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2703.39,"endTime":2706.15,"body":"ist of Latter-day Saints or Br"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2703.39,"endTime":2706.15,"body":"gham Young University. We are no"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2706.15,"endTime":2708.61,"body":"trying to be prescriptive or te"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2706.15,"endTime":2708.61,"body":"l anyone what to think or wh"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2708.61,"endTime":2709.06,"body":"t to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2709.57,"endTime":2711.31,"body":"You heard three"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2709.57,"endTime":2711.31,"body":"perspectives and there are many,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2711.31,"endTime":2714.16,"body":"many more. We encourage you to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2711.31,"endTime":2714.16,"body":"listen to other voices and hear"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2714.16,"endTime":2716.86,"body":"a wide variety of experiences."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2714.16,"endTime":2716.86,"body":"If you would like to submit a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2716.86,"endTime":2719.68,"body":"question or share a comment"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2716.86,"endTime":2719.68,"body":"about today's episode, you can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2719.68,"endTime":2723.31,"body":"email us at questionsfromthecl"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2719.68,"endTime":2723.31,"body":"set@gmail.com. Until next ti"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2723.31,"endTime":2723.64,"body":"e."}]}