{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2.34,"endTime":4.77,"body":"Welcome to Questions from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2.34,"endTime":4.77,"body":"the Closet. I'm Ben Schilaty."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4.98,"endTime":7.44,"body":"And I'm Charlie Bird."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4.98,"endTime":7.44,"body":"Each episode we discuss a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":7.44,"endTime":10.65,"body":"question we commonly get asked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":7.44,"endTime":10.65,"body":"as LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":10.71,"endTime":12.6,"body":"We're not trying to answer"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":10.71,"endTime":12.6,"body":"this question or come to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":12.6,"endTime":15.42,"body":"consensus but simply sharing our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":12.6,"endTime":15.42,"body":"perspectives. Today's question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":15.42,"endTime":17.01,"body":"is, do you keep your covenants?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":17.34,"endTime":19.32,"body":"Ben and I are not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":17.34,"endTime":19.32,"body":"terribly diverse and we share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":19.32,"endTime":22.11,"body":"many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":19.32,"endTime":22.11,"body":"experiences. For example, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.11,"endTime":23.52,"body":"both used to have blond hair."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":23.69,"endTime":25.76,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":23.69,"endTime":25.76,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":25.76,"endTime":30.14,"body":"example, my hair was natural and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":25.76,"endTime":30.14,"body":"Charlie's was fake. So when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":30.14,"endTime":32.09,"body":"was a kid, I just naturally had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":30.14,"endTime":32.09,"body":"this really blonde hair, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":32.09,"endTime":34.55,"body":"then as I aged, it got darker"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":32.09,"endTime":34.55,"body":"and now it's actually reverting"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":34.55,"endTime":35.63,"body":"back to light again."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":35.84,"endTime":37.28,"body":"It's, it's gray, Ben."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":37.31,"endTime":40.04,"body":"Yeah, well, I mean, gray"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":37.31,"endTime":40.04,"body":"hair is actually white hair."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":40.22,"endTime":41.3,"body":"It's, it just looks gray."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":41.3,"endTime":42.11,"body":"It's peppered."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":42.14,"endTime":42.62,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":42.65,"endTime":45.26,"body":"Peppered in. I was blonde when I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":42.65,"endTime":45.26,"body":"was 24."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":46.1,"endTime":46.73,"body":"What happened?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":46.79,"endTime":49.25,"body":"Back in my wild days."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":46.79,"endTime":49.25,"body":"It wasn't even that wild. I just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":49.25,"endTime":51.38,"body":"bleached my hair once because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":49.25,"endTime":51.38,"body":"wanted to do it. I wanted to do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":51.38,"endTime":54.29,"body":"it for like four years. And then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":51.38,"endTime":54.29,"body":"finally I was like, I don't care"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":54.29,"endTime":57.65,"body":"if people think I'm gay. I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":54.29,"endTime":57.65,"body":"gonna have Platinum hair."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":57.71,"endTime":59.36,"body":"And straight guys can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":57.71,"endTime":59.36,"body":"bleach their hair, too."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":59.39,"endTime":60.56,"body":"That's true. But I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":60.62,"endTime":62.03,"body":"Or, or guys from the 90s."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":62.06,"endTime":66.02,"body":"Basically, right? Any,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":62.06,"endTime":66.02,"body":"anything that was like, off"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":66.02,"endTime":68.09,"body":"socially, I was trying very hard"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":66.02,"endTime":68.09,"body":"not to do."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":68.12,"endTime":71.54,"body":"Gotcha. Anyway, and you had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":68.12,"endTime":71.54,"body":"blonde hair recently, again?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":71.6,"endTime":73.49,"body":"I did not. I April"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":71.6,"endTime":73.49,"body":"Foolsed Day, everyone on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":73.49,"endTime":76.97,"body":"Instagram, and I posted pictures"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":73.49,"endTime":76.97,"body":"of like dyeing my hair three"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":76.97,"endTime":82.25,"body":"years ago. And people were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":76.97,"endTime":82.25,"body":"upset. Like, I did not know that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":82.25,"endTime":86.03,"body":"people were so possessive over"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":82.25,"endTime":86.03,"body":"my hair. I was getting like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":86.03,"endTime":89.48,"body":"angry messages about how ugly I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":86.03,"endTime":89.48,"body":"was with blonde hair. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":89.48,"endTime":91.04,"body":"like, thanks."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":91.34,"endTime":93.89,"body":"People are, like you posted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":91.34,"endTime":93.89,"body":"some of the reactions that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":93.89,"endTime":96.29,"body":"people are insane. I can't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":93.89,"endTime":96.29,"body":"believe how mean they were."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":96.32,"endTime":99.26,"body":"Like, it's literally"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":96.32,"endTime":99.26,"body":"just hair. And also like, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":99.26,"endTime":102.68,"body":"wasn't April Fool's. But my hair"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":99.26,"endTime":102.68,"body":"did he has to look like that. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":102.68,"endTime":104.09,"body":"was like, okay, so."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":104.27,"endTime":106.88,"body":"So I totally fell for the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":104.27,"endTime":106.88,"body":"joke. I was like, Charlie, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":106.88,"endTime":108.44,"body":"told you your hair looked bad"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":106.88,"endTime":108.44,"body":"when it was bleached. Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":108.44,"endTime":109.88,"body":"that's what I was thinking. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":108.44,"endTime":109.88,"body":"I was like, I can't believe you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":109.88,"endTime":112.1,"body":"did this. But then I was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":109.88,"endTime":112.1,"body":"Oh, thank goodness."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":112.13,"endTime":114.71,"body":"Yeah. Even for my mom."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":112.13,"endTime":114.71,"body":"I was like, Mom, you're so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":114.71,"endTime":115.22,"body":"gullible."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":115.22,"endTime":118.73,"body":"Oh Kathy. Kathy. Anyway,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":115.22,"endTime":118.73,"body":"now neither of us have blonde"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":118.73,"endTime":122.54,"body":"hair. But we used to have blond"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":118.73,"endTime":122.54,"body":"hair. So fun times. So we often"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":122.54,"endTime":124.64,"body":"have guests on the show. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":122.54,"endTime":124.64,"body":"today we're joined by nobody."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":124.88,"endTime":127.79,"body":"Just us. We're talking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":124.88,"endTime":127.79,"body":"about covenants. Kind of a juicy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":127.79,"endTime":128.27,"body":"topic."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":128.3,"endTime":131.24,"body":"Yeah. And we try to figure"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":128.3,"endTime":131.24,"body":"out what the right question was."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":131.36,"endTime":133.73,"body":"And we just kind of went with a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":131.36,"endTime":133.73,"body":"question that we get asked."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":133.85,"endTime":136.94,"body":"Which is like, do you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":133.85,"endTime":136.94,"body":"keep your covenants? Yeah, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":137.0,"endTime":139.34,"body":"it's not like that, though. It's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":137.0,"endTime":139.34,"body":"like, do you keep your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":139.34,"endTime":144.32,"body":"covenants? I mean, it's always"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":139.34,"endTime":144.32,"body":"from the from like, a are you a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":144.32,"endTime":145.25,"body":"good person?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":145.31,"endTime":145.85,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":145.84,"endTime":148.42,"body":"I'm just like, ooof, so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":145.84,"endTime":148.42,"body":"we're gonna unpack that a little"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":148.42,"endTime":148.63,"body":"bit."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":148.63,"endTime":151.09,"body":"Yeah. Or people who are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":148.63,"endTime":151.09,"body":"like, I wish that so and so kept"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":151.09,"endTime":152.56,"body":"their covenants like you do Ben."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":152.65,"endTime":153.07,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":153.1,"endTime":156.13,"body":"And I don't really like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":153.1,"endTime":156.13,"body":"that at all. Yeah. So today,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":156.13,"endTime":157.03,"body":"we're talking about covenants."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":157.9,"endTime":161.38,"body":"I have a few issues"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":157.9,"endTime":161.38,"body":"with this question. Like even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":161.38,"endTime":167.26,"body":"beyond just like, the overt"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":161.38,"endTime":167.26,"body":"judgment that I feel. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":167.26,"endTime":171.7,"body":"think mostly it's because like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":167.26,"endTime":171.7,"body":"I feel like as a gay person, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":171.7,"endTime":174.28,"body":"only covenant anybody ever cares"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":171.7,"endTime":174.28,"body":"about that I've made is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":174.28,"endTime":177.76,"body":"chastity. And so they're like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":174.28,"endTime":177.76,"body":"do you keep your covenants but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":177.76,"endTime":180.34,"body":"what they're asking is, are you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":177.76,"endTime":180.34,"body":"having sex with guys?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":180.46,"endTime":181.0,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":181.0,"endTime":183.28,"body":"And I just feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":181.0,"endTime":183.28,"body":"that's inappropriate. And also"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":183.28,"endTime":186.97,"body":"like, it's, it's like, really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":183.28,"endTime":186.97,"body":"disappointing to me when people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":186.97,"endTime":191.08,"body":"reduce my covenants to sex."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":186.97,"endTime":191.08,"body":"Because like, I've made"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":191.08,"endTime":193.69,"body":"baptismal covenants. I've made"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":191.08,"endTime":193.69,"body":"temple covenants. I've made"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":193.69,"endTime":196.33,"body":"priesthood covenants. And like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":193.69,"endTime":196.33,"body":"when you add them all up,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.33,"endTime":199.42,"body":"there's like, there's like eight"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.33,"endTime":199.42,"body":"covenants there. And then people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":199.42,"endTime":203.68,"body":"are just like, Are you having"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":199.42,"endTime":203.68,"body":"sex? And I'm like, excuse me?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":204.64,"endTime":207.04,"body":"Yeah, I, you know, I feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":204.64,"endTime":207.04,"body":"the same way. I feel like people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":207.04,"endTime":209.35,"body":"often like judge my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":207.04,"endTime":209.35,"body":"righteousness, which I mean,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":209.35,"endTime":211.63,"body":"they shouldn't be doing anyway."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":209.35,"endTime":211.63,"body":"But based on whether or not I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":211.63,"endTime":214.33,"body":"having sex, like they look at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":211.63,"endTime":214.33,"body":"the law of chastity as like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":214.33,"endTime":216.64,"body":"this, like this overarching"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":214.33,"endTime":216.64,"body":"covenant to one like, wondering"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":216.64,"endTime":218.32,"body":"if I'm keeping that covenant or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":216.64,"endTime":218.32,"body":"not."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":218.37,"endTime":221.91,"body":"Well, the thing is, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":218.37,"endTime":221.91,"body":"feel like people view the law of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":221.91,"endTime":227.76,"body":"chastity as whether or not you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":221.91,"endTime":227.76,"body":"are gay and having sex. Does"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":227.76,"endTime":228.42,"body":"that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":228.48,"endTime":231.45,"body":"I mean, I don't think it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":228.48,"endTime":231.45,"body":"quite like that. I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":231.45,"endTime":233.64,"body":"people still wonder if straight"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":231.45,"endTime":233.64,"body":"people live the law of chastity."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":233.64,"endTime":236.07,"body":"Yeah, yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":233.64,"endTime":236.07,"body":"true. But like, like, there is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":236.07,"endTime":239.49,"body":"no way for, I guess I'm saying"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":236.07,"endTime":239.49,"body":"that like, straight people have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":239.49,"endTime":242.7,"body":"a way to like, keep the law of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":239.49,"endTime":242.7,"body":"chastity according to like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":242.79,"endTime":246.57,"body":"views while having sex. Like if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":242.79,"endTime":246.57,"body":"you get married, straight people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":246.57,"endTime":247.23,"body":"can have sex."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":247.26,"endTime":248.1,"body":"Oh, of course. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":248.0,"endTime":271.64,"body":"Yay. Yeah. Well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":248.0,"endTime":271.64,"body":"as I thought about this, and you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":248.099,"endTime":250.619,"body":"So it's just like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":248.099,"endTime":250.619,"body":"don't know, like, like, it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":250.619,"endTime":253.049,"body":"really interesting to me that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":250.619,"endTime":253.049,"body":"we're in a culture where other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":253.049,"endTime":256.109,"body":"people are like (a) where other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":253.049,"endTime":256.109,"body":"people are asking people about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":256.109,"endTime":259.649,"body":"their covenants that aren't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":256.109,"endTime":259.649,"body":"like, ecclesiastical leaders, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":259.649,"endTime":263.669,"body":"like giving a temple recommend"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":259.649,"endTime":263.669,"body":"interview, but also that it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":263.669,"endTime":267.149,"body":"just so like, I don't know, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":263.669,"endTime":267.149,"body":"just like I always get so mad"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":267.149,"endTime":269.369,"body":"when people are so interested in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":267.149,"endTime":269.369,"body":"my sex life just because I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":269.369,"endTime":274.139,"body":"gay. And I'm like, your interest"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":269.369,"endTime":274.139,"body":"is awry because like, I am a vi"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":274.139,"endTime":277.439,"body":"gin. So like, yeah, I'm keeping"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":281.75,"endTime":283.91,"body":"know, prepared a little bit for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":281.75,"endTime":283.91,"body":"today's episode, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":283.91,"endTime":286.01,"body":"wondering, like, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":283.91,"endTime":286.01,"body":"just like reviewing, like, what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":286.01,"endTime":288.53,"body":"covenants I have made, and the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":286.01,"endTime":288.53,"body":"ones that mean the most to me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":288.53,"endTime":291.86,"body":"and when we get baptized, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":288.53,"endTime":291.86,"body":"know, as it talks about and Moza"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":291.89,"endTime":295.07,"body":"18. And when Alma explains the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":291.89,"endTime":295.07,"body":"baptismal covenant talks about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":295.19,"endTime":296.93,"body":"that will mourn with those that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":295.19,"endTime":296.93,"body":"mourn and comfort those that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":296.93,"endTime":298.76,"body":"stand in need of comfort and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":296.93,"endTime":298.76,"body":"bear one another's burdens that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":298.76,"endTime":301.58,"body":"they'll be light. It talks about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":298.76,"endTime":301.58,"body":"being a witness of God at all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":301.58,"endTime":304.85,"body":"times and all things and in all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":301.58,"endTime":304.85,"body":"places. I love that, like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":304.85,"endTime":307.82,"body":"love, like those promises that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":304.85,"endTime":307.82,"body":"we make. And then you know, of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":307.82,"endTime":310.34,"body":"course we we promise that we'll"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":307.82,"endTime":310.34,"body":"take upon ourselves the name of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":310.34,"endTime":313.1,"body":"Christ and keep God's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":310.34,"endTime":313.1,"body":"commandments that we'll always"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":313.31,"endTime":317.18,"body":"remember him. And, and I just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":313.31,"endTime":317.18,"body":"love that stuff. Yeah, like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":317.18,"endTime":319.91,"body":"think those are really important"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":317.18,"endTime":319.91,"body":"things. And I think it's too bad"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":319.91,"endTime":322.79,"body":"when people just like, wonder"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":319.91,"endTime":322.79,"body":"like who you're having sex with?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":322.99,"endTime":325.12,"body":"Yeah, I appreciate that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":322.99,"endTime":325.12,"body":"you said that, Ben, because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":325.12,"endTime":327.85,"body":"think about this a lot like, my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":325.12,"endTime":327.85,"body":"baptismal covenants are the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":327.85,"endTime":330.4,"body":"first ones that I made and are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":327.85,"endTime":330.4,"body":"that like, that's how you enter"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":330.4,"endTime":335.17,"body":"the gate to eternal life through"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":330.4,"endTime":335.17,"body":"baptism, and the receiving the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":335.17,"endTime":338.74,"body":"Holy Ghost, and that's where"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":335.17,"endTime":338.74,"body":"conversion begins to happen. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":338.77,"endTime":343.6,"body":"I think sometimes just naturally"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":338.77,"endTime":343.6,"body":"in LDS culture, we talk about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":343.6,"endTime":346.75,"body":"covenants as if it is chastity,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":343.6,"endTime":346.75,"body":"as if like temple covenants are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":346.75,"endTime":350.2,"body":"marriage and chastity and or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":346.75,"endTime":350.2,"body":"that temple covenants are the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":350.2,"endTime":354.64,"body":"only covenants. And we overlook"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":350.2,"endTime":354.64,"body":"baptism, confirmation, being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":354.64,"endTime":357.91,"body":"ordained to the priesthood. Even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":354.64,"endTime":357.91,"body":"within the temple, there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":357.94,"endTime":361.96,"body":"obedience and sacrifice and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":357.94,"endTime":361.96,"body":"consecration. So there's all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":361.96,"endTime":365.68,"body":"these beautiful, beautiful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":361.96,"endTime":365.68,"body":"covenants that we have. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":365.68,"endTime":369.79,"body":"think I've even been guilty"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":365.68,"endTime":369.79,"body":"myself in the past of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":370.48,"endTime":373.0,"body":"worrying so much about covenants"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":370.48,"endTime":373.0,"body":"in the covenant path and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":373.0,"endTime":377.02,"body":"focusing so much on chastity"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":373.0,"endTime":377.02,"body":"that I'm overlooking all the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":377.02,"endTime":380.23,"body":"really beautiful things I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":377.02,"endTime":380.23,"body":"promised, that fits so well into"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":380.23,"endTime":384.7,"body":"my life and who I am, regardless"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":380.23,"endTime":384.7,"body":"of like sexual status."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":385.15,"endTime":387.58,"body":"Definitely, yeah, I was,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":385.15,"endTime":387.58,"body":"you know, as we talk about, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":387.58,"endTime":389.23,"body":"temple covenants, I was worried"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":387.58,"endTime":389.23,"body":"that some people might think"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":389.26,"endTime":392.2,"body":"like, it's not okay to talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":389.26,"endTime":392.2,"body":"about this stuff. So I actually"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":392.2,"endTime":394.57,"body":"printed out something from the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":392.2,"endTime":394.57,"body":"church's website. So there's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":394.69,"endTime":397.0,"body":"lots of great stuff on on the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":394.69,"endTime":397.0,"body":"temple on the church website."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":397.15,"endTime":399.01,"body":"And it says this, it says in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":397.15,"endTime":399.01,"body":"conjunction with these"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":399.01,"endTime":402.28,"body":"ordinances mean the ordinance of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":399.01,"endTime":402.28,"body":"the initiatory and the endowment"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":402.49,"endTime":404.65,"body":"says you will be invited to make"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":402.49,"endTime":404.65,"body":"specific comments with God."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":404.86,"endTime":407.2,"body":"These covenants include the law"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":404.86,"endTime":407.2,"body":"of obedience, the law of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":407.2,"endTime":410.14,"body":"sacrifice, law of the gospel,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":407.2,"endTime":410.14,"body":"the law of chastity, the law of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":410.14,"endTime":413.26,"body":"consecration. In return, God"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":410.14,"endTime":413.26,"body":"promises wonderful blessings in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":413.26,"endTime":416.68,"body":"this life and the opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":413.26,"endTime":416.68,"body":"return to live with Him forever."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":416.92,"endTime":420.22,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Can I say something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":416.92,"endTime":420.22,"body":"about the law, about the law of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":420.22,"endTime":420.79,"body":"consecration?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":420.82,"endTime":421.45,"body":"Yeah, please."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":421.48,"endTime":424.21,"body":"So they also have like some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":421.48,"endTime":424.21,"body":"general authority quotes to go"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":424.21,"endTime":425.8,"body":"along with each covenant to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":424.21,"endTime":425.8,"body":"like, explain what what they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":425.8,"endTime":428.23,"body":"mean. And there's this really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":425.8,"endTime":428.23,"body":"beautiful quote by elder"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":428.23,"endTime":429.46,"body":"Christofferson is okay, if I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":428.23,"endTime":429.46,"body":"read it?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":429.49,"endTime":430.03,"body":"Yeah, of course."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":430.02,"endTime":433.11,"body":"It's like I'm teaching"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":430.02,"endTime":433.11,"body":"Sunday school now. This, thi"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":433.14,"endTime":435.9,"body":"from Elder, Elder Christoffer"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":433.14,"endTime":435.9,"body":"on. He said, \"Our life on ea"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":435.9,"endTime":439.08,"body":"th is a stewardship of time and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":435.9,"endTime":439.08,"body":"choices granted by our Creator."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":439.08,"endTime":442.05,"body":"he word stewardship calls to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":439.08,"endTime":442.05,"body":"ind the Lord's law of consecrat"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":442.05,"endTime":445.68,"body":"on, which has an economic role"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":442.05,"endTime":445.68,"body":"but more than that is an appli"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":445.68,"endTime":450.09,"body":"ation of celestial law to life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":445.68,"endTime":450.09,"body":"here and now. To consecrate"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":450.09,"endTime":452.88,"body":"s to set apart or dedicate som"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":450.09,"endTime":452.88,"body":"thing as sacred, devote"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":452.88,"endTime":456.27,"body":"to holy purposes. True succes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":452.88,"endTime":456.27,"body":"in this life comes in consecr"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":456.27,"endTime":460.65,"body":"ting our lives, that is our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":456.27,"endTime":460.65,"body":"time and choices to God's pur"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":460.65,"endTime":464.88,"body":"oses. In doing so we permit him"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":460.65,"endTime":464.88,"body":"to raise us to our highest desti"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":464.88,"endTime":468.27,"body":"y.\" And I like the idea th"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":464.88,"endTime":468.27,"body":"t like the law of consecration t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":468.27,"endTime":472.74,"body":"at we've promised is an invita"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":468.27,"endTime":472.74,"body":"ion for us to live a celestial l"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":472.74,"endTime":477.03,"body":"fe right now. And to live a li"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":472.74,"endTime":477.03,"body":"e that is made holy, by ded"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":477.03,"endTime":480.21,"body":"cating it to God, and by using e"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":477.03,"endTime":480.21,"body":"erything that we have to serv"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":480.21,"endTime":483.99,"body":"God and build up others and to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":480.21,"endTime":483.99,"body":"build his kingdom. And I have a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":483.99,"endTime":487.74,"body":"friend who I was talking to onc"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":483.99,"endTime":487.74,"body":"and she was just really s"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":487.74,"endTime":490.44,"body":"ressed out about, she was someo"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":487.74,"endTime":490.44,"body":"e who was like, hard, she had t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":490.44,"endTime":492.81,"body":"ouble asking for help. It just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":490.44,"endTime":492.81,"body":"like felt like she had to do al"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":492.81,"endTime":495.33,"body":"these things and, and be so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":492.81,"endTime":495.33,"body":"eone that served everyone and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":495.33,"endTime":497.37,"body":"then she had this epiphany at o"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":495.33,"endTime":497.37,"body":"e point where she said, wher"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":497.37,"endTime":500.85,"body":"she realized that the law of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":497.37,"endTime":500.85,"body":"onsecration wasn't just abou"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":500.85,"endTime":504.51,"body":"giving everything she had to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":500.85,"endTime":504.51,"body":"God, and to those around her,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":504.51,"endTime":507.99,"body":"but accepting everything that t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":504.51,"endTime":507.99,"body":"ose around her and God ha"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":507.99,"endTime":511.17,"body":"to give to her. And then sh"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":507.99,"endTime":511.17,"body":"thought, Well, I can ask for he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":511.17,"endTime":513.63,"body":"p, like other people are here t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":511.17,"endTime":513.63,"body":"consecrate what the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":513.93,"endTime":515.88,"body":"Yeah, yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":513.93,"endTime":515.88,"body":"beautiful. Thanks for sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":515.88,"endTime":520.29,"body":"that. I think, like, for me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":515.88,"endTime":520.29,"body":"this this covenant, that the I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":520.29,"endTime":524.73,"body":"guess the highest covenant I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":520.29,"endTime":524.73,"body":"made is consecration. And it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":524.73,"endTime":528.39,"body":"so like, the idea of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":524.73,"endTime":528.39,"body":"consecrating my life and what I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":528.39,"endTime":531.72,"body":"have to build the kingdom of God"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":528.39,"endTime":531.72,"body":"is so sacred to me. And it's so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":531.72,"endTime":534.69,"body":"fulfilling and meaningful to me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":531.72,"endTime":534.69,"body":"And, you know, it's funny"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":534.69,"endTime":539.19,"body":"because, like, people, I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":534.69,"endTime":539.19,"body":"want to over generalize, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":539.19,"endTime":542.7,"body":"like, people have, like, talked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":539.19,"endTime":542.7,"body":"to me a lot and come to me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":542.7,"endTime":546.24,"body":"concerned and like, \"Oh, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":542.7,"endTime":546.24,"body":"came out as gay, and you're not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":546.24,"endTime":548.91,"body":"gonna be able to keep your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":546.24,"endTime":548.91,"body":"covenants.\" And I'm like, for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":548.91,"endTime":552.24,"body":"me, coming out as gay has been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":548.91,"endTime":552.24,"body":"one of the things that has"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":552.24,"endTime":554.55,"body":"helped me most keep that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":552.24,"endTime":554.55,"body":"covenant of building the kingdom"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":554.55,"endTime":557.37,"body":"of God. Because this is an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":554.55,"endTime":557.37,"body":"aspect of who I am. This is part"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":557.37,"endTime":562.17,"body":"of me. This is part of my being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":557.37,"endTime":562.17,"body":"that I can consecrate to this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":562.2,"endTime":566.37,"body":"effort to build Zion and have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":562.2,"endTime":566.37,"body":"people see each other and hear"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":566.37,"endTime":569.64,"body":"each other and know my heart and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":566.37,"endTime":569.64,"body":"I'm learning other people's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":569.64,"endTime":572.37,"body":"hearts at the same time. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":569.64,"endTime":572.37,"body":"that's why like, a lot of my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":572.37,"endTime":575.91,"body":"time and talents and efforts"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":572.37,"endTime":575.91,"body":"have been through this like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":575.91,"endTime":580.56,"body":"filter, I guess, or conduit of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":575.91,"endTime":580.56,"body":"my orientation led me to be able"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":580.56,"endTime":583.86,"body":"to build the kingdom of God in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":580.56,"endTime":583.86,"body":"really unique and diverse ways."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":584.58,"endTime":589.14,"body":"And so like, like, for me, my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":584.58,"endTime":589.14,"body":"orientation falls so in line and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":589.14,"endTime":592.47,"body":"so harmoniously with the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":589.14,"endTime":592.47,"body":"covenants I've made."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":592.56,"endTime":596.22,"body":"Yeah, I super agree. Like I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":592.56,"endTime":596.22,"body":"said this before, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":596.25,"endTime":598.47,"body":"when I give firesides, or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":596.25,"endTime":598.47,"body":"lessons and we talk about same"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":598.47,"endTime":601.17,"body":"sex attraction how to minister"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":598.47,"endTime":601.17,"body":"to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":601.41,"endTime":603.3,"body":"like I always end, like I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":601.41,"endTime":603.3,"body":"bearing my testament, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":603.3,"endTime":606.09,"body":"teaching gospel principles. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":603.3,"endTime":606.09,"body":"you know, the main vehicle"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":606.09,"endTime":608.1,"body":"through which I'm bearing my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":606.09,"endTime":608.1,"body":"testimony now is by talking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":608.1,"endTime":611.67,"body":"about my orientation. And by"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":608.1,"endTime":611.67,"body":"coming out, I feel like I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":611.7,"endTime":614.94,"body":"been able to keep keep the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":611.7,"endTime":614.94,"body":"covenant to keep the law of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":614.94,"endTime":617.4,"body":"consecration to live the law of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":614.94,"endTime":617.4,"body":"consecration in a much higher"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":617.4,"endTime":618.27,"body":"and holier way."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":618.42,"endTime":620.46,"body":"These are things that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":618.42,"endTime":620.46,"body":"I've learned over time. Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":620.55,"endTime":622.65,"body":"like I said, I used to really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":620.55,"endTime":622.65,"body":"get caught up over over"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":622.65,"endTime":624.66,"body":"covenants and like thinking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":622.65,"endTime":624.66,"body":"about the temple. I'm like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":624.66,"endTime":627.78,"body":"gay, I don't fit in like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":624.66,"endTime":627.78,"body":"can't keep these covenants. To"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":627.78,"endTime":631.26,"body":"be perfectly honest, like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":627.78,"endTime":631.26,"body":"term or the phrase covenant path"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":631.68,"endTime":634.23,"body":"has been difficult for me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":634.53,"endTime":635.19,"body":"Tell me more."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":635.37,"endTime":638.16,"body":"I guess initially, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":635.37,"endTime":638.16,"body":"kind of still, I'm still working"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":638.16,"endTime":641.01,"body":"through it. I don't want anyone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":638.16,"endTime":641.01,"body":"to think that I'm, I've like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":641.04,"endTime":644.34,"body":"arrived at my understanding or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":641.04,"endTime":644.34,"body":"testimony. But..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":644.37,"endTime":645.42,"body":"Of course you have you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":644.37,"endTime":645.42,"body":"27."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":645.81,"endTime":649.53,"body":"I'm 27. And my hair's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":645.81,"endTime":649.53,"body":"not blonde anymore. I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":649.56,"endTime":650.1,"body":"tempered."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":650.93,"endTime":651.83,"body":"What if it goes gray?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":652.97,"endTime":654.14,"body":"I hope I'm still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":652.97,"endTime":654.14,"body":"pretty."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":654.92,"endTime":656.69,"body":"I only got prettier when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":654.92,"endTime":656.69,"body":"turned gray."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":656.81,"endTime":657.68,"body":"You look great, Ben."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":657.68,"endTime":658.22,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":660.35,"endTime":660.92,"body":"What was I saying?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":661.16,"endTime":663.83,"body":"You're talking about the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":661.16,"endTime":663.83,"body":"covenant path and like how you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":663.83,"endTime":665.54,"body":"haven't like arrived and figured"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":663.83,"endTime":665.54,"body":"everything out."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":665.6,"endTime":668.54,"body":"Yeah. So, so it used"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":665.6,"endTime":668.54,"body":"to, like, stress me out because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":668.54,"endTime":672.86,"body":"it feels like it doesn't allow"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":668.54,"endTime":672.86,"body":"for a certain sense of diversity"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":672.92,"endTime":676.88,"body":"within it. Like, like, to me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":672.92,"endTime":676.88,"body":"when I hear that I get images of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":676.88,"endTime":682.1,"body":"like, beige. Like everyone is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":676.88,"endTime":682.1,"body":"the same. It's the same path."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":682.1,"endTime":686.48,"body":"It's the same thing. Honestly,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":682.1,"endTime":686.48,"body":"like in the past, and it kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":686.51,"endTime":690.35,"body":"resurges sometimes I feel like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":686.51,"endTime":690.35,"body":"made covenants, not really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":690.35,"endTime":693.14,"body":"knowing who I was, like, like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":690.35,"endTime":693.14,"body":"went to the temple when I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":693.14,"endTime":695.93,"body":"19, before my mission, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":693.14,"endTime":695.93,"body":"like legitimately thought I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":695.93,"endTime":699.08,"body":"would be straight in the future."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":695.93,"endTime":699.08,"body":"And so like, I made these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":699.08,"endTime":702.98,"body":"covenants as one person, as like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":699.08,"endTime":702.98,"body":"someone I was trying to be that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":702.98,"endTime":705.74,"body":"wasn't really who I am. And so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":702.98,"endTime":705.74,"body":"like part of me kind of like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":705.77,"endTime":709.1,"body":"resents that To be honest, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":705.77,"endTime":709.1,"body":"maybe that's like, hard for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":709.1,"endTime":711.41,"body":"people to hear. But it's true."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":709.1,"endTime":711.41,"body":"That's a thought I've had a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":711.41,"endTime":714.44,"body":"like, would I have easily made"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":711.41,"endTime":714.44,"body":"those covenants if I really knew"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":714.44,"endTime":715.46,"body":"what I was getting in to."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":715.88,"endTime":717.62,"body":"This is what I'm hearing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":715.88,"endTime":717.62,"body":"you say, Charlie, you don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":717.62,"endTime":720.5,"body":"really like it when people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":717.62,"endTime":720.5,"body":"reduce your covenants to like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":720.5,"endTime":723.05,"body":"the law of chastity. What I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":720.5,"endTime":723.05,"body":"hearing you say is like, you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":723.05,"endTime":725.12,"body":"kind of doing that right now."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":723.05,"endTime":725.12,"body":"Like you're viewing the covenant"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":725.12,"endTime":726.38,"body":"path as marriage."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":726.44,"endTime":728.0,"body":"That yeah, that's what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":726.44,"endTime":728.0,"body":"I'm saying right now."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":728.3,"endTime":729.65,"body":"And you're saying that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":728.3,"endTime":729.65,"body":"bad."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":729.95,"endTime":731.84,"body":"Yeah, it wasn't helpful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":729.95,"endTime":731.84,"body":"for me at all."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":731.9,"endTime":733.79,"body":"I think you bring up a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":731.9,"endTime":733.79,"body":"really good point, like, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":733.79,"endTime":735.89,"body":"know, I think there might have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":733.79,"endTime":735.89,"body":"even been a talk at this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":736.13,"endTime":738.86,"body":"conference about what the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":736.13,"endTime":738.86,"body":"covenant path means. But I might"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":738.86,"endTime":739.76,"body":"have been tired and missed it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":739.82,"endTime":742.28,"body":"Yeah, there was. I just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":739.82,"endTime":742.28,"body":"I listened to it on the way"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":742.28,"endTime":742.52,"body":"here."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":742.52,"endTime":743.87,"body":"Actually, what was the,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":742.52,"endTime":743.87,"body":"what does it say?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":743.93,"endTime":746.57,"body":"So it was Elder"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":743.93,"endTime":746.57,"body":"Christofferson. And honestly,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":746.6,"endTime":749.15,"body":"most of it was like about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":746.6,"endTime":749.15,"body":"baptism and following the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":749.15,"endTime":752.75,"body":"Spirit. And it's funny because,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":749.15,"endTime":752.75,"body":"because to be perfectly honest"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":752.75,"endTime":756.35,"body":"with you, conference was Sunday,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":752.75,"endTime":756.35,"body":"this has been very recent. I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":756.35,"endTime":760.52,"body":"watching it. And once this talk"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":756.35,"endTime":760.52,"body":"opened as the covenant path, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":760.52,"endTime":763.43,"body":"kind of just like muted out,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":760.52,"endTime":763.43,"body":"because I was afraid there was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":763.43,"endTime":766.55,"body":"gonna be something that like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":763.43,"endTime":766.55,"body":"hurt my feelings. And that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":766.55,"endTime":768.32,"body":"didn't want to deal with now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":766.55,"endTime":768.32,"body":"And I was just like, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":768.32,"endTime":771.8,"body":"gonna mute. But we're recording"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":768.32,"endTime":771.8,"body":"this today. So I looked at it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":771.83,"endTime":775.7,"body":"And it was just interesting to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":771.83,"endTime":775.7,"body":"see that, like, I expected it to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":775.7,"endTime":779.24,"body":"be all about marriage, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":775.7,"endTime":779.24,"body":"exaltation. And it was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":779.24,"endTime":782.18,"body":"about the importance of baptism"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":779.24,"endTime":782.18,"body":"and following the promptings of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":782.18,"endTime":786.11,"body":"the Holy Spirit. Again, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":782.18,"endTime":786.11,"body":"like, I'm just saying, like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":786.11,"endTime":789.41,"body":"guilty of this all the time"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":786.11,"endTime":789.41,"body":"reducing the covenant path to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":789.83,"endTime":793.04,"body":"chastity and marriage when the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":789.83,"endTime":793.04,"body":"covenant path is becoming a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":793.04,"endTime":795.29,"body":"child of God like becoming"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":793.04,"endTime":795.29,"body":"Christ-like."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":795.78,"endTime":798.87,"body":"Yeah, so like, even if I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":795.78,"endTime":798.87,"body":"had gotten married when I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":798.87,"endTime":802.23,"body":"23, like I expected, then it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":798.87,"endTime":802.23,"body":"like, the covenant path is done."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":802.23,"endTime":804.75,"body":"Like I still have a whole"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":802.23,"endTime":804.75,"body":"lifetime of covenants to live"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":804.75,"endTime":807.33,"body":"and keep so that I can strive to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":804.75,"endTime":807.33,"body":"be like the Savior."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":807.63,"endTime":809.97,"body":"Yeah. So Ben, you know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":807.63,"endTime":809.97,"body":"how we have this thing about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":809.97,"endTime":811.65,"body":"like, personal revelation?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":811.98,"endTime":814.5,"body":"Well, I mean, we have a but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":811.98,"endTime":814.5,"body":"it's kind of like a true"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":814.5,"endTime":816.27,"body":"principle. So right. It's not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":814.5,"endTime":816.27,"body":"like our thing."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":817.68,"endTime":821.82,"body":"But I feel like every"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":817.68,"endTime":821.82,"body":"podcast comes back to seeking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":821.82,"endTime":824.46,"body":"revelation like personal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":821.82,"endTime":824.46,"body":"revelation for yourself. And the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":824.46,"endTime":828.99,"body":"way to reconcile faith,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":824.46,"endTime":828.99,"body":"sexuality, allyship anything, is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":828.99,"endTime":833.7,"body":"to just like, go to God, and be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":828.99,"endTime":833.7,"body":"led by the Spirit. So in this,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":833.73,"endTime":836.37,"body":"this talk that I was mentioning"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":833.73,"endTime":836.37,"body":"from this past General"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":836.37,"endTime":839.07,"body":"Conference, I'm going to be like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":836.37,"endTime":839.07,"body":"Ben and teach Sunday school"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":839.07,"endTime":839.4,"body":"again."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":839.46,"endTime":840.03,"body":"Please do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":840.03,"endTime":843.84,"body":"And also read a quote"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":840.03,"endTime":843.84,"body":"from Elder Christofferson. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":843.84,"endTime":844.44,"body":"here we are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":845.38,"endTime":846.64,"body":"Shout out to D. Todd today."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":847.54,"endTime":850.42,"body":"So it says, \"Our"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":847.54,"endTime":850.42,"body":"overarching covenant commitment"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":850.45,"endTime":853.21,"body":"is to do God's will, and to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":850.45,"endTime":853.21,"body":"obedient to His commandments and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":853.21,"endTime":855.85,"body":"all things that he shall command"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":853.21,"endTime":855.85,"body":"us.\" And then it talks about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":855.85,"endTime":858.34,"body":"like following the principles"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":855.85,"endTime":858.34,"body":"and the commandments of gospel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":858.34,"endTime":861.19,"body":"is the way to happiness. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":858.34,"endTime":861.19,"body":"our overarching covenant"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":861.19,"endTime":866.59,"body":"commitment is to do God's will."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":861.19,"endTime":866.59,"body":"And I, again, like it's just so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":866.59,"endTime":870.16,"body":"important for me to remind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":866.59,"endTime":870.16,"body":"myself that my covenant is to do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":870.16,"endTime":874.66,"body":"what God says to do. Like, if I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":870.16,"endTime":874.66,"body":"have faith in God, and I trust"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":874.66,"endTime":878.32,"body":"the revelation, I receive and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":874.66,"endTime":878.32,"body":"act on it. I'm on the covenant"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":878.32,"endTime":878.74,"body":"path."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":879.28,"endTime":882.31,"body":"Definitely like when like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":879.28,"endTime":882.31,"body":"when we're doing God's will for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":882.31,"endTime":885.79,"body":"us. Like that's what we promised"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":882.31,"endTime":885.79,"body":"to do, like we we're promising"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":885.79,"endTime":888.46,"body":"to, to keep his commandments and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":885.79,"endTime":888.46,"body":"his commands is what He commands"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":888.46,"endTime":889.06,"body":"us to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":889.66,"endTime":892.15,"body":"I guess, I guess in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":889.66,"endTime":892.15,"body":"this sense, I was just saying"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":892.15,"endTime":894.61,"body":"how like it used to kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":892.15,"endTime":894.61,"body":"bother me that the covenant path"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":894.61,"endTime":898.87,"body":"that phrase like didn't ring"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":894.61,"endTime":898.87,"body":"diversity through to my ears,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":899.44,"endTime":902.83,"body":"but like, if the covenant path"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":899.44,"endTime":902.83,"body":"really is following God's will."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":903.52,"endTime":907.06,"body":"I think God's will for each of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":903.52,"endTime":907.06,"body":"us, children will probably be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":907.09,"endTime":911.41,"body":"different, like on Earth, we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":907.09,"endTime":911.41,"body":"all in different situations in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":911.41,"endTime":916.45,"body":"different phases of life and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":911.41,"endTime":916.45,"body":"like, revelation is consistent,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":916.45,"endTime":920.02,"body":"but it also changes. Does that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":916.45,"endTime":920.02,"body":"make sense? And so in that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":920.02,"endTime":923.44,"body":"sense, there, there is diversity"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":920.02,"endTime":923.44,"body":"and like, like, even the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":923.44,"endTime":926.47,"body":"covenant of baptism is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":923.44,"endTime":926.47,"body":"individual. It's not like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":926.47,"endTime":930.37,"body":"collective everyone being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":926.47,"endTime":930.37,"body":"baptized at the same time, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":930.58,"endTime":936.01,"body":"covenant keeping is a one on one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":930.58,"endTime":936.01,"body":"relationship between us and God,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":936.07,"endTime":942.22,"body":"like one person and God. And so,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":936.07,"endTime":942.22,"body":"yeah, like the covenant path I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":942.22,"endTime":945.19,"body":"think sometimes we think of it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":942.22,"endTime":945.19,"body":"as like, one road that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":945.19,"endTime":947.47,"body":"everyone's walking on, but I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":945.19,"endTime":947.47,"body":"think it's like a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":947.47,"endTime":951.49,"body":"different roads that all have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":947.47,"endTime":951.49,"body":"the same goal of becoming"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":951.52,"endTime":953.2,"body":"Christ-like and living with God"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":951.52,"endTime":953.2,"body":"again."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":953.62,"endTime":956.71,"body":"Yeah, I like that. I, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":953.62,"endTime":956.71,"body":"trying to think of..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":956.77,"endTime":957.64,"body":"Does that freak you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":956.77,"endTime":957.64,"body":"out?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":957.67,"endTime":960.28,"body":"No, it doesn't, doesn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":957.67,"endTime":960.28,"body":"freak me out."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":960.88,"endTime":961.78,"body":"It terrifies you."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":961.81,"endTime":965.86,"body":"No, it doesn't terrify me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":961.81,"endTime":965.86,"body":"either. Like, like, I like of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":965.86,"endTime":968.53,"body":"course, like love the principle"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":965.86,"endTime":968.53,"body":"of personal revelation and feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":968.53,"endTime":971.11,"body":"like it's essential and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":968.53,"endTime":971.11,"body":"necessary. And the at the same"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":971.11,"endTime":976.12,"body":"time, like, I've never felt to,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":971.11,"endTime":976.12,"body":"like, not live like church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":976.12,"endTime":977.26,"body":"teachings as well."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":977.71,"endTime":979.42,"body":"Well, that's I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":977.71,"endTime":979.42,"body":"think that's what I was trying"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":979.42,"endTime":979.93,"body":"to say."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":980.23,"endTime":983.65,"body":"Yeah. So as you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":980.23,"endTime":983.65,"body":"speaking, I'm thinking, it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":983.65,"endTime":985.99,"body":"kind of like, Well, whatever God"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":983.65,"endTime":985.99,"body":"tells you to do do that thing,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":986.02,"endTime":986.8,"body":"which I mean,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":986.83,"endTime":989.98,"body":"Well, it but if we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":986.83,"endTime":989.98,"body":"truly believed in, like, if you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":989.98,"endTime":992.41,"body":"truly have a testimony of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":989.98,"endTime":992.41,"body":"revelation you're getting, isn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":992.41,"endTime":992.92,"body":"that true?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":993.01,"endTime":993.43,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":993.49,"endTime":996.4,"body":"But like, would God"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":993.49,"endTime":996.4,"body":"command you to go on a path"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":996.4,"endTime":998.08,"body":"that's outside of God's path for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":996.4,"endTime":998.08,"body":"you?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":998.2,"endTime":998.68,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":998.74,"endTime":1003.24,"body":"So it like, it feels"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":998.74,"endTime":1003.24,"body":"like anarchy is what you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1003.24,"endTime":1003.57,"body":"saying?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1003.6,"endTime":1005.28,"body":"Well, I'm just like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1003.6,"endTime":1005.28,"body":"thinking about like, 23 year old"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1005.28,"endTime":1007.83,"body":"me hearing this and 23 year old"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1005.28,"endTime":1007.83,"body":"me is freaking out. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1008.43,"endTime":1011.82,"body":"Whereas like, 37 year old me has"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1008.43,"endTime":1011.82,"body":"like, a lot of experience"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1011.85,"endTime":1014.31,"body":"seeking personal revelation,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1011.85,"endTime":1014.31,"body":"receiving personal revelation,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1014.46,"endTime":1018.78,"body":"and like living church teachings"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1014.46,"endTime":1018.78,"body":"and keeping what I believe are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1018.78,"endTime":1022.14,"body":"commandments and, and like a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1018.78,"endTime":1022.14,"body":"of experience, and I feel like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1022.29,"endTime":1024.54,"body":"23 year old, 23 year old me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1022.29,"endTime":1024.54,"body":"would be freaked out by like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1024.96,"endTime":1027.75,"body":"\"Whatever God tells you do\", but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1024.96,"endTime":1027.75,"body":"I guess like I say all the time."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1027.75,"endTime":1030.39,"body":"So yeah, I don't know. I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1027.75,"endTime":1030.39,"body":"really don't know where I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1030.39,"endTime":1030.78,"body":"going with that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1030.78,"endTime":1033.96,"body":"So are you saying that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1030.78,"endTime":1033.96,"body":"by opening, I feel like this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1033.96,"endTime":1036.48,"body":"important conversation. Okay, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1033.96,"endTime":1036.48,"body":"want to dig into this because 23"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1036.48,"endTime":1039.84,"body":"year old me is like, that's,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1036.48,"endTime":1039.84,"body":"like thrown the phone across the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1039.84,"endTime":1040.14,"body":"room."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1041.16,"endTime":1042.6,"body":"23 year old you it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1041.16,"endTime":1042.6,"body":"that long ago."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1042.6,"endTime":1047.01,"body":"Okay. Okay. So 22 year"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1042.6,"endTime":1047.01,"body":"old me. So much growth between"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1047.01,"endTime":1047.94,"body":"22 and 23."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1047.94,"endTime":1050.49,"body":"I know. Oh, my goodness,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1047.94,"endTime":1050.49,"body":"and some blonde hair in between?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1052.14,"endTime":1054.45,"body":"Well, let me just like explain,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1052.14,"endTime":1054.45,"body":"like how I am as a person."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1054.45,"endTime":1055.14,"body":"Yeah, go for it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1055.14,"endTime":1057.84,"body":"So I'm like a very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1055.14,"endTime":1057.84,"body":"duty-bound person. And like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1057.84,"endTime":1061.44,"body":"a very obedient person, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1057.84,"endTime":1061.44,"body":"I'm a rule follower, like if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1061.44,"endTime":1064.95,"body":"there ever was one. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1061.44,"endTime":1064.95,"body":"remember when I was when I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1064.98,"endTime":1070.56,"body":"30, and dating Jordan. And I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1064.98,"endTime":1070.56,"body":"just like, I need Jordan in my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1070.56,"endTime":1073.11,"body":"life. He'd like, broken up with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1070.56,"endTime":1073.11,"body":"me, because I like wouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1073.11,"endTime":1076.29,"body":"in real relationship with Him."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1073.11,"endTime":1076.29,"body":"And I got in my car in Arizona,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1076.29,"endTime":1078.66,"body":"and drove up to Utah to like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1076.29,"endTime":1078.66,"body":"tell him that I changed my mind."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1078.87,"endTime":1081.33,"body":"On the drive. I was like, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1078.87,"endTime":1081.33,"body":"how can I keep Jordan in my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1081.33,"endTime":1083.85,"body":"life? How can I keep him in my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1081.33,"endTime":1083.85,"body":"life. And what I had figured out"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1083.85,"endTime":1087.75,"body":"was, like the wording of the, of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1083.85,"endTime":1087.75,"body":"the law of chastity that I had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1087.75,"endTime":1090.24,"body":"promised in the temple wasn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1087.75,"endTime":1090.24,"body":"gendered."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1090.6,"endTime":1091.05,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1091.11,"endTime":1094.95,"body":"It was just that I could"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1091.11,"endTime":1094.95,"body":"only have that. So it didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1094.98,"endTime":1097.26,"body":"specify a gender because it was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1094.98,"endTime":1097.26,"body":"to a group of people like men"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1097.26,"endTime":1099.84,"body":"and women in the group. So I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1097.26,"endTime":1099.84,"body":"like, \"Okay, if I'm married to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1099.84,"endTime":1103.98,"body":"Jordan, then I'm not breaking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1099.84,"endTime":1103.98,"body":"that covenant. And, but the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1103.98,"endTime":1106.56,"body":"church might disfellowship me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1103.98,"endTime":1106.56,"body":"and I will be able to hold a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1106.56,"endTime":1108.9,"body":"call and or have a tub"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1106.56,"endTime":1108.9,"body":"recommend, but I've gone to the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1108.9,"endTime":1111.42,"body":"temple more than most people in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1108.9,"endTime":1111.42,"body":"their lives, and I've served"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1111.42,"endTime":1113.76,"body":"plenty and can keep serving.\" So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1111.42,"endTime":1113.76,"body":"I was like, as long as it so the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1113.76,"endTime":1117.21,"body":"church might say, this isn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1113.76,"endTime":1117.21,"body":"okay. But with God, I'll be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1117.21,"endTime":1120.81,"body":"okay. And so that's how I worked"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1117.21,"endTime":1120.81,"body":"that out in my head. That ended"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1120.81,"endTime":1123.42,"body":"up not being the right thing for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1120.81,"endTime":1123.42,"body":"anyone involved in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1123.42,"endTime":1126.66,"body":"situation. But that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1123.42,"endTime":1126.66,"body":"how I worked it out. And it was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1126.66,"endTime":1131.49,"body":"very important to me that I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1126.66,"endTime":1131.49,"body":"like, following like, the letter"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1131.49,"endTime":1135.93,"body":"of the law that I had made with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1131.49,"endTime":1135.93,"body":"God, even if it like wasn't okay"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1135.96,"endTime":1139.35,"body":"with like, what the church was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1135.96,"endTime":1139.35,"body":"teaching. Okay, and that was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1139.35,"endTime":1142.53,"body":"like, a really like, odd thing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1139.35,"endTime":1142.53,"body":"for me to do like that is really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1142.56,"endTime":1145.77,"body":"not characteristic of like me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1142.56,"endTime":1145.77,"body":"Like, that's not really how I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1145.86,"endTime":1147.66,"body":"how I am typically, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1145.86,"endTime":1147.66,"body":"usually if there's like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1147.78,"endTime":1150.15,"body":"something you're asked to do,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1147.78,"endTime":1150.15,"body":"you do that thing? And I do it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1150.27,"endTime":1150.78,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1151.08,"endTime":1154.38,"body":"So I guess what I'm getting"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1151.08,"endTime":1154.38,"body":"with this is that Ben was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1154.41,"endTime":1157.29,"body":"so scared of being alone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1154.41,"endTime":1157.29,"body":"forever, that I was like, trying"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1157.29,"endTime":1160.17,"body":"to like, do anything I could to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1157.29,"endTime":1160.17,"body":"like, keep this person in my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1160.17,"endTime":1160.56,"body":"life."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1161.01,"endTime":1161.61,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1161.64,"endTime":1163.74,"body":"But then when I like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1161.64,"endTime":1163.74,"body":"actually like prayed about it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1163.74,"endTime":1168.9,"body":"and thought about it. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1163.74,"endTime":1168.9,"body":"do that thing. So I guess..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1169.77,"endTime":1172.59,"body":"Well, I think the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1169.77,"endTime":1172.59,"body":"difference there is where it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1172.59,"endTime":1176.88,"body":"coming from, because that was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1172.59,"endTime":1176.88,"body":"coming from you, not from God."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1177.18,"endTime":1179.55,"body":"And then when you went to God,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1177.18,"endTime":1179.55,"body":"you realized that that was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1179.55,"endTime":1181.26,"body":"coming from you. And so you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1179.55,"endTime":1181.26,"body":"didn't do it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1181.32,"endTime":1182.28,"body":"Right. Right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1182.31,"endTime":1185.91,"body":"But Had it been coming"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1182.31,"endTime":1185.91,"body":"from God, I feel like you would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1185.91,"endTime":1186.54,"body":"have done it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1186.81,"endTime":1189.51,"body":"That is true. So, so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1186.81,"endTime":1189.51,"body":"here's, here's where, here's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1189.51,"endTime":1191.52,"body":"where I'm going to get into I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1189.51,"endTime":1191.52,"body":"still working it out in my head."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1192.75,"endTime":1193.11,"body":"I feel..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1193.11,"endTime":1194.1,"body":"This is a juicy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1193.11,"endTime":1194.1,"body":"episode."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1194.67,"endTime":1197.49,"body":"...like personal revelation"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1194.67,"endTime":1197.49,"body":"for me, like there are things"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1197.49,"endTime":1199.65,"body":"that happen in the church that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1197.49,"endTime":1199.65,"body":"like really tick me off. That"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1199.65,"endTime":1202.95,"body":"really upset me. And yet as I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1199.65,"endTime":1202.95,"body":"like, seek personal revelation,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1203.13,"endTime":1205.83,"body":"I feel called again and again,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1203.13,"endTime":1205.83,"body":"again to live church teachings."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1206.37,"endTime":1210.15,"body":"And so I do that. And so like my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1206.37,"endTime":1210.15,"body":"history as a human being has"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1210.15,"endTime":1213.3,"body":"been as I've sought God's will"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1210.15,"endTime":1213.3,"body":"for me, it's to live church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1213.3,"endTime":1216.48,"body":"teachings. But that doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1213.3,"endTime":1216.48,"body":"I'm just like doing it willy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1216.48,"endTime":1218.88,"body":"nilly, or like, because I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1216.48,"endTime":1218.88,"body":"supposed to like, it's very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1218.88,"endTime":1222.63,"body":"much. It's very personal for me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1218.88,"endTime":1222.63,"body":"And so I guess this idea of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1222.63,"endTime":1226.74,"body":"like, like God telling, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1222.63,"endTime":1226.74,"body":"telling me like me, Ben, to do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1226.74,"endTime":1229.2,"body":"something that would like, take"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1226.74,"endTime":1229.2,"body":"me out of church teachings just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1229.2,"endTime":1232.86,"body":"feels kind of antithetical to my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1229.2,"endTime":1232.86,"body":"life. I'm not saying that's not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1232.89,"endTime":1235.62,"body":"possible, but it just, it just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1232.89,"endTime":1235.62,"body":"is kind of, like hard for me to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1235.62,"endTime":1238.02,"body":"wrap my head around, like now to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1235.62,"endTime":1238.02,"body":"actually sit down. Think about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1238.02,"endTime":1238.2,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1238.23,"endTime":1241.44,"body":"Yeah. Well, I think of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1238.23,"endTime":1241.44,"body":"like, like, John..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1241.89,"endTime":1242.58,"body":"Which one?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1242.61,"endTime":1245.61,"body":"Gustav Rothel? Oh, yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1242.61,"endTime":1245.61,"body":"like his story, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1245.61,"endTime":1248.28,"body":"know, if we can just like, pull"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1245.61,"endTime":1248.28,"body":"his story into this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1248.28,"endTime":1249.15,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1249.21,"endTime":1251.73,"body":"Well, well, I feel like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1249.21,"endTime":1251.73,"body":"like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1251.88,"endTime":1253.74,"body":"It's funny that we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1251.88,"endTime":1253.74,"body":"recording this conversation"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1253.74,"endTime":1256.02,"body":"because like, this is like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1253.74,"endTime":1256.02,"body":"conversation that me and you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1256.02,"endTime":1259.23,"body":"would actually have like, this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1256.02,"endTime":1259.23,"body":"is, this is not a clean"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1259.23,"endTime":1262.62,"body":"conversation. Like this doesn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1259.23,"endTime":1262.62,"body":"have ribbons and bows on it. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1262.62,"endTime":1265.65,"body":"like, you know, because because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1262.62,"endTime":1265.65,"body":"isn't that what happened to John"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1265.68,"endTime":1266.55,"body":"and his husband?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1266.58,"endTime":1269.46,"body":"Yeah, I know, literally"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1266.58,"endTime":1269.46,"body":"dozens of people who feel who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1269.46,"endTime":1272.64,"body":"felt like called by God to be in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1269.46,"endTime":1272.64,"body":"same sex relationships. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1272.64,"endTime":1274.05,"body":"don't doubt that revelation."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1274.17,"endTime":1277.77,"body":"Right. So like, in a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1274.17,"endTime":1277.77,"body":"way, is it like, can they still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1277.77,"endTime":1281.28,"body":"be on the covenant path? If they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1277.77,"endTime":1281.28,"body":"are, like being faithful to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1281.28,"endTime":1284.58,"body":"their partner and abstaining"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1281.28,"endTime":1284.58,"body":"from sex outside of marriage"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1284.58,"endTime":1286.32,"body":"with whom they're legally and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1284.58,"endTime":1286.32,"body":"lawfully wed?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1286.38,"endTime":1288.36,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it's not for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1286.38,"endTime":1288.36,"body":"me to say like, who is and who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1288.36,"endTime":1291.06,"body":"isn't on a covenant path, right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1288.36,"endTime":1291.06,"body":"But I feel like if I received"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1291.06,"endTime":1294.87,"body":"personal revelation to be in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1291.06,"endTime":1294.87,"body":"same sex marriage, I would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1294.87,"endTime":1296.34,"body":"believe that I was on the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1294.87,"endTime":1296.34,"body":"covenant path."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1296.46,"endTime":1300.96,"body":"Me too. And as scary as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1296.46,"endTime":1300.96,"body":"that might be to someone. I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1300.96,"endTime":1304.44,"body":"not scared of that anymore."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1300.96,"endTime":1304.44,"body":"Like, I would have been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1304.44,"endTime":1307.2,"body":"terrified by that. Like, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1304.44,"endTime":1307.2,"body":"if former me could hear me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1307.2,"endTime":1310.17,"body":"saying that right now. I would,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1307.2,"endTime":1310.17,"body":"like I said, like the phone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1310.17,"endTime":1313.92,"body":"would now be destroyed, thrown"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1310.17,"endTime":1313.92,"body":"across the room and then hit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1313.92,"endTime":1316.8,"body":"with a hammer. But it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1313.92,"endTime":1316.8,"body":"bother me anymore, though."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1316.8,"endTime":1322.23,"body":"Because like, I trust my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1316.8,"endTime":1322.23,"body":"revelation. And I have seen that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1322.23,"endTime":1325.8,"body":"like, by giving myself options,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1322.23,"endTime":1325.8,"body":"I don't feel stuck anymore."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1326.16,"endTime":1329.04,"body":"Like, it's amazing. It really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1326.16,"endTime":1329.04,"body":"all comes back to personal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1329.04,"endTime":1332.04,"body":"revelation and agency. By"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1329.04,"endTime":1332.04,"body":"seeking God and realizing that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1332.04,"endTime":1336.18,"body":"can do whatever I want, then it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1332.04,"endTime":1336.18,"body":"makes choosing what God tells me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1336.18,"endTime":1339.0,"body":"so much easier, because then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1336.18,"endTime":1339.0,"body":"don't feel forced down the path."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1339.0,"endTime":1344.13,"body":"Like, for me, I would say, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1339.0,"endTime":1344.13,"body":"if I'm feeling stuck, as I'm,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1344.52,"endTime":1347.19,"body":"like, on the covenant path, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1344.52,"endTime":1347.19,"body":"would have to look inside and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1347.19,"endTime":1351.57,"body":"say, am I really on the covenant"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1347.19,"endTime":1351.57,"body":"path? Because I believe that the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1351.57,"endTime":1354.66,"body":"path to eternal progression"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1351.57,"endTime":1354.66,"body":"should be, like mortal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.66,"endTime":1358.14,"body":"progression, and that it should"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1354.66,"endTime":1358.14,"body":"feel like synthesised and fluid."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.56,"endTime":1363.12,"body":"And so like a covenant path that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1358.56,"endTime":1363.12,"body":"I feel stuck on, doesn't really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1363.15,"endTime":1369.72,"body":"feel God-given. Does that make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1363.15,"endTime":1369.72,"body":"sense? And, and the one I'm on,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1370.08,"endTime":1372.93,"body":"I really liked that you pointed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1370.08,"endTime":1372.93,"body":"out and specified that like, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1372.93,"endTime":1376.29,"body":"is not our job to determine who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1372.93,"endTime":1376.29,"body":"and who is not on a covenant"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1376.29,"endTime":1380.82,"body":"path, except for ourselves. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1376.29,"endTime":1380.82,"body":"Charlie Bird and the steward of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1380.82,"endTime":1385.29,"body":"my own covenant path with God."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1380.82,"endTime":1385.29,"body":"Like, I feel like, if I feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1385.29,"endTime":1389.07,"body":"like I'm on the covenant path I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1385.29,"endTime":1389.07,"body":"am. You know waht I mean?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1389.13,"endTime":1390.81,"body":"I don't think it's quite"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1389.13,"endTime":1390.81,"body":"that simple. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1390.84,"endTime":1391.68,"body":"You don't think so?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1391.74,"endTime":1393.81,"body":"Like, if I think I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1391.74,"endTime":1393.81,"body":"keeping my covenants I am,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1394.38,"endTime":1397.5,"body":"Like, if I truly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1394.38,"endTime":1397.5,"body":"believe if like, my whole soul"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1397.59,"endTime":1402.03,"body":"is converted to my covenant path"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1397.59,"endTime":1402.03,"body":"then I'm on it, right? You"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1402.03,"endTime":1402.93,"body":"disagree with this."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1402.96,"endTime":1405.3,"body":"No, well I know you well"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1402.96,"endTime":1405.3,"body":"enough Charlie to know that you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1405.3,"endTime":1407.43,"body":"wouldn't do anything that you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1405.3,"endTime":1407.43,"body":"didn't believe was the right"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1407.43,"endTime":1412.32,"body":"thing. Like, like you are, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1407.43,"endTime":1412.32,"body":"are a very, like congruent and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1412.35,"endTime":1413.25,"body":"authentic person."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1413.34,"endTime":1416.55,"body":"Okay. Thanks. That's a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1413.34,"endTime":1416.55,"body":"really nice compliment."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1416.76,"endTime":1420.09,"body":"It's true. Yeah. So I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1416.76,"endTime":1420.09,"body":"doubt what you're saying. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1420.09,"endTime":1423.84,"body":"just, I just kind of feel like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1420.09,"endTime":1423.84,"body":"that, that one statement seems"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1423.9,"endTime":1424.59,"body":"simplistic."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1424.74,"endTime":1428.4,"body":"Well, we're, we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1424.74,"endTime":1428.4,"body":"working out the kinks here."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1429.12,"endTime":1431.13,"body":"Can you just share some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1429.12,"endTime":1431.13,"body":"stories that that might feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1431.16,"endTime":1432.63,"body":"that just kind of feel relevant"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1431.16,"endTime":1432.63,"body":"right now?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1432.66,"endTime":1433.17,"body":"Yeah, please."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1433.0,"endTime":1434.86,"body":"So I don't think I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1433.0,"endTime":1434.86,"body":"shared the story before,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1434.89,"endTime":1438.25,"body":"probably because it makes me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1434.89,"endTime":1438.25,"body":"look important. But when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1438.28,"endTime":1441.61,"body":"started the Master's in social"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1438.28,"endTime":1441.61,"body":"work at BYU, I had just finished"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1441.61,"endTime":1444.55,"body":"my Ph. D. program in Arizona,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1441.61,"endTime":1444.55,"body":"and I was really tired. Like, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1444.55,"endTime":1449.26,"body":"didn't want to be in school"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1444.55,"endTime":1449.26,"body":"again. And my dream job in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1449.26,"endTime":1452.2,"body":"Spanish department at BYU opened"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1449.26,"endTime":1452.2,"body":"up, and my dream had been to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1452.2,"endTime":1454.78,"body":"work at BYU in the Spanish"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1452.2,"endTime":1454.78,"body":"department for like, the last 10"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1454.78,"endTime":1458.47,"body":"years. And so like a couple of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1454.78,"endTime":1458.47,"body":"the faculty like invited me to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1458.47,"endTime":1460.06,"body":"apply for this position, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1458.47,"endTime":1460.06,"body":"know, there was there was no"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1460.06,"endTime":1462.37,"body":"guarantee I'd get it. But But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1460.06,"endTime":1462.37,"body":"you know, they were inviting me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1462.37,"endTime":1465.16,"body":"to apply, which was a good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1462.37,"endTime":1465.16,"body":"thing. And I had, I had lunch"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1465.16,"endTime":1468.25,"body":"with an administrator, friend of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1465.16,"endTime":1468.25,"body":"mine at BYU. And I was telling"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1468.25,"endTime":1471.22,"body":"her that I thought I was going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1468.25,"endTime":1471.22,"body":"to quit my social work program,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1471.43,"endTime":1475.0,"body":"and get the Spanish job. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1471.43,"endTime":1475.0,"body":"because I just too tired to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1475.0,"endTime":1477.94,"body":"in school, and this is what she"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1475.0,"endTime":1477.94,"body":"said. She said, Ben there are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1477.97,"endTime":1480.52,"body":"100 people who could do that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1477.97,"endTime":1480.52,"body":"Spanish job and only one person"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1480.52,"endTime":1482.77,"body":"who can do what you're going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1480.52,"endTime":1482.77,"body":"do. And you need to be trained"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1482.77,"endTime":1486.58,"body":"to do it. You can't quit your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1482.77,"endTime":1486.58,"body":"program. And and she was right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1486.61,"endTime":1489.97,"body":"Like she was. Yeah, she was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1486.61,"endTime":1489.97,"body":"absolutely right. And I use my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1489.97,"endTime":1493.15,"body":"social work skills every single"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1489.97,"endTime":1493.15,"body":"day. Yeah, like every single"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1493.15,"endTime":1497.26,"body":"day. And so the reason I share"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1493.15,"endTime":1497.26,"body":"that story is like, I really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1497.26,"endTime":1499.81,"body":"want to consecrate my life to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1497.26,"endTime":1499.81,"body":"like build a kingdom and do good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1500.14,"endTime":1502.81,"body":"and there are times when I'd"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1500.14,"endTime":1502.81,"body":"like want to do something that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1502.81,"endTime":1506.98,"body":"just feels easier because I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1502.81,"endTime":1506.98,"body":"tired. Yeah, but then really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1506.98,"endTime":1510.28,"body":"wise people have helped me be in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1506.98,"endTime":1510.28,"body":"a place where I make decisions"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1510.28,"endTime":1512.98,"body":"that are more congruent with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1510.28,"endTime":1512.98,"body":"with my with my overall overall"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1512.98,"endTime":1516.28,"body":"goal. And just one more story I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1512.98,"endTime":1516.28,"body":"remember, right after your book"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1516.28,"endTime":1518.8,"body":"came out, you were kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1516.28,"endTime":1518.8,"body":"overwhelmed and things were like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1518.8,"endTime":1520.69,"body":"you'd been really busy for a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1518.8,"endTime":1520.69,"body":"week. And I was like, that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1520.69,"endTime":1522.58,"body":"like the one week we didn't have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1520.69,"endTime":1522.58,"body":"a podcast episode come out"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1522.58,"endTime":1523.66,"body":"because you didn't have time to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1522.58,"endTime":1523.66,"body":"edit it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1523.699,"endTime":1524.509,"body":"Sorry, everyone."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1525.65,"endTime":1528.98,"body":"And, and then you and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1525.65,"endTime":1528.98,"body":"like met on my back porch. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1528.98,"endTime":1531.32,"body":"we're just like debriefing, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1528.98,"endTime":1531.32,"body":"talking about like what to do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1531.32,"endTime":1535.73,"body":"going forward. And we've been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1531.32,"endTime":1535.73,"body":"using Richard Ostler's equipment"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1535.73,"endTime":1538.85,"body":"to record up in Murray. And it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1535.73,"endTime":1538.85,"body":"was a long drive. And it was a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1538.85,"endTime":1542.27,"body":"hassle. And so I was like, well,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1538.85,"endTime":1542.27,"body":"I'll just buy equipment. And we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1542.27,"endTime":1545.87,"body":"went online, and it was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1542.27,"endTime":1545.87,"body":"expensive. It was and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1545.87,"endTime":1546.32,"body":"thought..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1546.38,"endTime":1547.88,"body":"But how's the sound"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1546.38,"endTime":1547.88,"body":"quality everyone?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1548.3,"endTime":1552.02,"body":"And I thought, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1548.3,"endTime":1552.02,"body":"like, what is my money for but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1552.02,"endTime":1556.16,"body":"to do good? And if this will"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1552.02,"endTime":1556.16,"body":"make our lives easier, and make"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1556.16,"endTime":1558.08,"body":"it easier for us to do the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1556.16,"endTime":1558.08,"body":"podcast then it is worth every"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1558.08,"endTime":1561.77,"body":"penny? Yeah. And so I did it and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1558.08,"endTime":1561.77,"body":"I didn't regret it and never"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1561.77,"endTime":1563.81,"body":"have and you know, and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1561.77,"endTime":1563.81,"body":"basically bankroll this whole"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1563.81,"endTime":1566.36,"body":"podcast, I mean it's not like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1563.81,"endTime":1566.36,"body":"super expensive to do but, but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1566.39,"endTime":1568.13,"body":"I'm like, it's a pleasure to do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1566.39,"endTime":1568.13,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1568.28,"endTime":1569.42,"body":"Ben's my sugar daddy."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1571.91,"endTime":1576.23,"body":"Because like, I believe in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1571.91,"endTime":1576.23,"body":"this, I believe this. And and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1576.23,"endTime":1578.57,"body":"feel like this is one of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1576.23,"endTime":1578.57,"body":"ways that I can build Zion and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1578.57,"endTime":1581.57,"body":"consecrate my life. And you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1578.57,"endTime":1581.57,"body":"know, I don't know what everyone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1581.57,"endTime":1583.73,"body":"else should do to like, keep"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1581.57,"endTime":1583.73,"body":"their covenants to live the law"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1583.73,"endTime":1586.82,"body":"of consecration, but I really,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1583.73,"endTime":1586.82,"body":"like want to use my time, my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1586.82,"endTime":1590.0,"body":"talents and everything that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1586.82,"endTime":1590.0,"body":"have to do good and build the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1590.0,"endTime":1593.24,"body":"kingdom. And, like I honestly"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1590.0,"endTime":1593.24,"body":"like don't think about the law"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1593.24,"endTime":1594.29,"body":"of chastity that much."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1594.32,"endTime":1594.77,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1595.1,"endTime":1598.64,"body":"I mean, I mean, like, if I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1595.1,"endTime":1598.64,"body":"was gonna, like, hook up with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1598.64,"endTime":1600.47,"body":"someone, like who would it even"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1598.64,"endTime":1600.47,"body":"be? I don't even know."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1600.0,"endTime":1605.91,"body":"Watch out Ben we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1600.0,"endTime":1605.91,"body":"gonna get hordes of emails from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1607.2,"endTime":1608.46,"body":"potential suitors for you."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1608.91,"endTime":1613.56,"body":"We're really not. But it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1608.91,"endTime":1613.56,"body":"like, I mean, it's like such a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1613.56,"endTime":1616.65,"body":"settled thing for me. Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1613.56,"endTime":1616.65,"body":"it's, it's just like, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1616.65,"endTime":1619.2,"body":"like, so settled. And like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1616.65,"endTime":1619.2,"body":"that's not what I'm gonna do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1619.2,"endTime":1620.49,"body":"that it's just not a problem."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1620.79,"endTime":1623.22,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1620.79,"endTime":1623.22,"body":"simplistic too, though, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1623.22,"endTime":1625.92,"body":"there's so many people that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1623.22,"endTime":1625.92,"body":"aren't. And I feel like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1625.92,"endTime":1630.12,"body":"listenership most of them aren't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1625.92,"endTime":1630.12,"body":"settled in their path. And so I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1630.12,"endTime":1633.69,"body":"don't know, I feel like that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1630.12,"endTime":1633.69,"body":"coming from a place of being 40"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1633.72,"endTime":1637.47,"body":"and having a ton of resources to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1633.72,"endTime":1637.47,"body":"figure this out."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1637.5,"endTime":1640.41,"body":"Yeah, definitely. Like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1637.5,"endTime":1640.41,"body":"a lot farther down my life path"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1640.41,"endTime":1643.14,"body":"then a lot of the listeners."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1640.41,"endTime":1643.14,"body":"Yeah, and I don't want to say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1643.14,"endTime":1646.17,"body":"that, like, it's always been an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1643.14,"endTime":1646.17,"body":"easy thing. So but like, this is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1646.17,"endTime":1646.77,"body":"where I am now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1646.86,"endTime":1648.18,"body":"Can I read a quote from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1646.86,"endTime":1648.18,"body":"the Prophet?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1649.14,"endTime":1649.71,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1649.77,"endTime":1651.18,"body":"Can I Ben? Is that ok?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1651.21,"endTime":1651.51,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1652.47,"endTime":1655.8,"body":"Okay, so Russell M."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1652.47,"endTime":1655.8,"body":"Nelson said, \"Wherever you are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1655.8,"endTime":1658.44,"body":"on the covenant path, even if at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1655.8,"endTime":1658.44,"body":"this moment, you are not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1658.44,"endTime":1661.8,"body":"centered on the path, I promise"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1658.44,"endTime":1661.8,"body":"you that if you will sincerely"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1661.8,"endTime":1664.62,"body":"and persistently do the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1661.8,"endTime":1664.62,"body":"spiritual work needed to develop"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1664.62,"endTime":1667.11,"body":"the crucial spiritual skills of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1664.62,"endTime":1667.11,"body":"learning how to hear the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1667.11,"endTime":1670.29,"body":"whisperings of the Holy Ghost,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1667.11,"endTime":1670.29,"body":"you will have all the direction"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1670.29,"endTime":1673.14,"body":"you will ever need in your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1670.29,"endTime":1673.14,"body":"life.\" And that's what I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1673.14,"endTime":1678.09,"body":"trying to say. Like, when things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1673.14,"endTime":1678.09,"body":"got messy, like this is exactly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1678.09,"endTime":1680.58,"body":"what I'm trying to say. Because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1678.09,"endTime":1680.58,"body":"like, if you sincerely and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1680.58,"endTime":1684.09,"body":"persistently do spiritual work,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1680.58,"endTime":1684.09,"body":"to develop this crucial"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1684.09,"endTime":1688.38,"body":"spiritual skill of hearing God's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1684.09,"endTime":1688.38,"body":"word for you, and then acting on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1688.38,"endTime":1691.47,"body":"it, like, to me that is the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1688.38,"endTime":1691.47,"body":"covenant path, to me that is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1691.47,"endTime":1695.88,"body":"being led by the Spirit, that is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1691.47,"endTime":1695.88,"body":"the direction I will need. And,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1695.88,"endTime":1699.48,"body":"and I've felt that and honestly,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1695.88,"endTime":1699.48,"body":"like, I don't want it to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1699.48,"endTime":1703.08,"body":"like, I'm so great, but like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1699.48,"endTime":1703.08,"body":"I've worked really, really,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1703.08,"endTime":1707.37,"body":"really hard to develop my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1703.08,"endTime":1707.37,"body":"spiritual skill set, and really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1707.37,"endTime":1711.15,"body":"try to understand the way I feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1707.37,"endTime":1711.15,"body":"the spirit and how I receive"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1711.15,"endTime":1715.71,"body":"answers, and seek those and be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1711.15,"endTime":1715.71,"body":"really sensitive to like, what I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1715.71,"endTime":1718.74,"body":"feel is right and wrong. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1715.71,"endTime":1718.74,"body":"feel like like, hopefully it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1718.74,"endTime":1722.31,"body":"continues. But I feel like I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1718.74,"endTime":1722.31,"body":"developed a pretty good sense of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1722.34,"endTime":1725.91,"body":"what's right for me. And so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1722.34,"endTime":1725.91,"body":"maybe that's why it's more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1725.91,"endTime":1729.21,"body":"simplistic for me too just like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1725.91,"endTime":1729.21,"body":"on..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1729.24,"endTime":1731.4,"body":"Because we've been around a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1729.24,"endTime":1731.4,"body":"while?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1731.43,"endTime":1734.4,"body":"Well, just because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1731.43,"endTime":1734.4,"body":"we've tried, you know, we've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1734.4,"endTime":1737.64,"body":"just been like praying and like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1734.4,"endTime":1737.64,"body":"I think if you're earnestly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1737.64,"endTime":1741.09,"body":"seeking to find your path,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1737.64,"endTime":1741.09,"body":"you're going to find it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1741.96,"endTime":1744.48,"body":"And what I got from that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1741.96,"endTime":1744.48,"body":"quote from President Nelson, it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1744.48,"endTime":1747.03,"body":"sounds like what he's saying is,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1744.48,"endTime":1747.03,"body":"if you're not living the law of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1747.03,"endTime":1749.7,"body":"chastity, but you're mourning"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1747.03,"endTime":1749.7,"body":"with those that mourn, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1749.7,"endTime":1751.38,"body":"comforting those that stand in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1749.7,"endTime":1751.38,"body":"need of comfort, like and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1751.38,"endTime":1753.84,"body":"keeping that covenant, then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1751.38,"endTime":1753.84,"body":"that's helping you move forward"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1753.84,"endTime":1757.2,"body":"on the covenant path. But if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1753.84,"endTime":1757.2,"body":"you're, if you're married and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1757.26,"endTime":1759.36,"body":"sealed to someone in the temple"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1757.26,"endTime":1759.36,"body":"and living in the law of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1759.36,"endTime":1762.99,"body":"chastity in that way, but you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1759.36,"endTime":1762.99,"body":"not consecrating your life to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1762.99,"endTime":1766.32,"body":"build the kingdom, then you can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1762.99,"endTime":1766.32,"body":"move forward with that covenant."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1766.32,"endTime":1768.75,"body":"And, and what I'm hearing him"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1766.32,"endTime":1768.75,"body":"say is like, it's not about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1768.75,"endTime":1771.12,"body":"perfection, it's about doing the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1768.75,"endTime":1771.12,"body":"best you can with what you've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1771.12,"endTime":1771.48,"body":"got."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1771.78,"endTime":1774.33,"body":"Right. And it's not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1771.78,"endTime":1774.33,"body":"even like, like people say, it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1774.33,"endTime":1777.09,"body":"not about checking boxes, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1774.33,"endTime":1777.09,"body":"it's not like building blocks."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1777.09,"endTime":1780.66,"body":"It's not like in order to mourn"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1777.09,"endTime":1780.66,"body":"with those that mourn. I have to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1780.66,"endTime":1784.08,"body":"also, I don't know, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1780.66,"endTime":1784.08,"body":"make sense. Like there is a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1784.08,"endTime":1787.32,"body":"of interrelation between them"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1784.08,"endTime":1787.32,"body":"because it's just like, being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1787.32,"endTime":1791.28,"body":"Christ-like but like, I feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1787.32,"endTime":1791.28,"body":"like someone can be like working"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1791.28,"endTime":1795.57,"body":"through chastity issues and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1791.28,"endTime":1795.57,"body":"also, like, be obedient in other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1795.57,"endTime":1798.99,"body":"areas or mourn with those that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1795.57,"endTime":1798.99,"body":"mourn, and be comforting and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1798.99,"endTime":1800.88,"body":"like seek Christ. You know?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1800.91,"endTime":1801.42,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1801.45,"endTime":1803.58,"body":"Like we act like if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1801.45,"endTime":1803.58,"body":"you're not fully keeping one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1803.58,"endTime":1806.88,"body":"covenant like, and actually I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1803.58,"endTime":1806.88,"body":"feel like chastity is the only"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1806.88,"endTime":1810.27,"body":"covenant there is that people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1806.88,"endTime":1810.27,"body":"say like, you're either keeping"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1810.27,"endTime":1812.64,"body":"it or you're not because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1810.27,"endTime":1812.64,"body":"everything else is so ambiguous,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1812.64,"endTime":1815.88,"body":"like, are you mourning with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1812.64,"endTime":1815.88,"body":"those that mourn at 100%"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1816.18,"endTime":1816.9,"body":"capacity?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1816.99,"endTime":1817.74,"body":"Obviously."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1817.95,"endTime":1821.07,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1817.95,"endTime":1821.07,"body":"And so it's it's like, we hinge"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1821.07,"endTime":1826.86,"body":"on this, like, yes or no to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1821.07,"endTime":1826.86,"body":"sexual intercourse. When like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1827.07,"endTime":1831.21,"body":"like, that's not like covenants"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1827.07,"endTime":1831.21,"body":"are, like, so robust and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1831.21,"endTime":1835.86,"body":"beautiful and like, grand. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1831.21,"endTime":1835.86,"body":"it's just like, ugggh why do we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.86,"endTime":1836.52,"body":"do this?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1836.63,"endTime":1840.11,"body":"Yeah, you know, I actually"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1836.63,"endTime":1840.11,"body":"spent a couple of years"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1840.11,"endTime":1843.08,"body":"pondering this, where like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1840.11,"endTime":1843.08,"body":"because to me, like, as a single"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1843.08,"endTime":1845.42,"body":"person the law of chastity is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1843.08,"endTime":1845.42,"body":"don't do this, or this, or this,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1845.45,"endTime":1849.2,"body":"or this. And I didn't like that,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1845.45,"endTime":1849.2,"body":"like this law of chastity was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1849.2,"endTime":1850.94,"body":"like, about not doing things,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1849.2,"endTime":1850.94,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1851.3,"endTime":1853.64,"body":"Every other covenant is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1851.3,"endTime":1853.64,"body":"about doing things."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1854.17,"endTime":1856.69,"body":"Yeah. And then I've talked"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1854.17,"endTime":1856.69,"body":"about this before, but I ended"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1856.69,"endTime":1859.66,"body":"up like, spending a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1856.69,"endTime":1859.66,"body":"in the temple and looking at the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1859.69,"endTime":1862.42,"body":"language there about, like, what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1859.69,"endTime":1862.42,"body":"Adam and Eve were commanded. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1862.45,"endTime":1865.21,"body":"yeah, and ended up getting to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1862.45,"endTime":1865.21,"body":"place where like, to me the law"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1865.21,"endTime":1869.59,"body":"of chastity means that I'm going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1865.21,"endTime":1869.59,"body":"to be fruitful, multiply and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1869.59,"endTime":1872.2,"body":"replenish the earth. And long"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1869.59,"endTime":1872.2,"body":"story short, like what that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1872.2,"endTime":1873.79,"body":"means to me is like replenishing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1872.2,"endTime":1873.79,"body":"the earth means like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1873.79,"endTime":1876.58,"body":"replenishing God's children and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1873.79,"endTime":1876.58,"body":"like, being a light to those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1876.91,"endTime":1879.4,"body":"around me, and like, hoping that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1876.91,"endTime":1879.4,"body":"every person I interact with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1879.64,"endTime":1883.45,"body":"leaves feeling that they were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1879.64,"endTime":1883.45,"body":"that they were renewed,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1883.45,"endTime":1885.46,"body":"refreshed, replenished, because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1883.45,"endTime":1885.46,"body":"they got to interact with me,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1885.49,"endTime":1887.86,"body":"right? And like, to me, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1885.49,"endTime":1887.86,"body":"that's how I actually live the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1887.86,"endTime":1889.84,"body":"law of chastity, which might"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1887.86,"endTime":1889.84,"body":"sound weird, but like, that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1889.84,"endTime":1890.59,"body":"how it worked out in my head."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1890.6,"endTime":1893.09,"body":"Oh no, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1890.6,"endTime":1893.09,"body":"beautiful. And it's like, keep"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1893.09,"endTime":1896.51,"body":"on a path that is making you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1893.09,"endTime":1896.51,"body":"fruitful and connect with other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1896.51,"endTime":1899.78,"body":"children of God and growing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1896.51,"endTime":1899.78,"body":"like, absolutely. Like, I want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1899.78,"endTime":1904.52,"body":"to be on that path I want to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1899.78,"endTime":1904.52,"body":"ever improving. And that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1904.52,"endTime":1905.27,"body":"really nice, Ben."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1905.6,"endTime":1906.05,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1906.08,"endTime":1910.07,"body":"Good job. I was also"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1906.08,"endTime":1910.07,"body":"thinking about like, part of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1910.07,"endTime":1913.4,"body":"covenant path is like gathering"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1910.07,"endTime":1913.4,"body":"with covenant people and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.4,"endTime":1915.77,"body":"associating with other people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.4,"endTime":1915.77,"body":"who are making God a priority in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1915.77,"endTime":1918.05,"body":"their life. And I think there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1915.77,"endTime":1918.05,"body":"a lot of power in that too, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1918.05,"endTime":1922.58,"body":"we, we don't allow, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1918.05,"endTime":1922.58,"body":"if I should say this, because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1922.58,"endTime":1924.23,"body":"feel like this podcast is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1922.58,"endTime":1924.23,"body":"already messy."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1924.26,"endTime":1924.83,"body":"Just say it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1924.29,"endTime":1927.59,"body":"But maybe we should"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1924.29,"endTime":1927.59,"body":"just make a mess here. Like, so,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1924.87,"endTime":1932.46,"body":"Because you'd done all this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1924.87,"endTime":1932.46,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1927.59,"endTime":1930.68,"body":"so I like started coming out to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1927.59,"endTime":1930.68,"body":"myself during the period of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1930.68,"endTime":1936.29,"body":"time, when there was the church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1930.68,"endTime":1936.29,"body":"policy. Basically, the if, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1932.73,"endTime":1953.04,"body":"I was like, I've been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1932.73,"endTime":1953.04,"body":"working for two years, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1936.8,"endTime":1938.81,"body":"if you're in a same sex"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1936.8,"endTime":1938.81,"body":"relationship, you're like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1938.81,"endTime":1943.01,"body":"subject to excommunication. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1938.81,"endTime":1943.01,"body":"since then, like terms have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1943.01,"endTime":1946.4,"body":"changed, policies have changed."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1943.01,"endTime":1946.4,"body":"But like, I was watching"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1946.4,"endTime":1950.75,"body":"everyone, I'm like, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1946.4,"endTime":1950.75,"body":"everyone I know, that is gay, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1950.75,"endTime":1954.44,"body":"same sex attracted, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1950.75,"endTime":1954.44,"body":"generally ends up in a same sex"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1954.44,"endTime":1957.59,"body":"relationship at one point. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1954.44,"endTime":1957.59,"body":"so like, I just became hyper"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1954.54,"endTime":1994.83,"body":"stretching my soul to somehow be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1954.54,"endTime":1994.83,"body":"okay with being excommunicated."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1957.59,"endTime":1962.72,"body":"focused under this policy with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1957.59,"endTime":1962.72,"body":"excommunication. And I, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1962.75,"endTime":1967.01,"body":"prepped for like two years, for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1962.75,"endTime":1967.01,"body":"me being excommunicated. Like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1967.01,"endTime":1969.83,"body":"honestly thought it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1967.01,"endTime":1969.83,"body":"inevitable, because I just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1969.83,"endTime":1973.04,"body":"figured it would happen to me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1969.83,"endTime":1973.04,"body":"whether I liked it or not. And,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1973.1,"endTime":1976.91,"body":"and that was like, honestly,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1973.1,"endTime":1976.91,"body":"that was horrible. Like, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1976.91,"endTime":1980.63,"body":"really difficult. And it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1976.91,"endTime":1980.63,"body":"just a lot of, actually, that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1980.63,"endTime":1982.73,"body":"one of the reasons why it was so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1980.63,"endTime":1982.73,"body":"hard for me when the policy was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1982.73,"endTime":1985.76,"body":"rescinded. And everyone was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1982.73,"endTime":1985.76,"body":"like, very excited about it. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1985.76,"endTime":1987.8,"body":"was like..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1995.28,"endTime":1995.97,"body":"Anyway..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1996.03,"endTime":1997.08,"body":"That sounds very dramatic."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1997.0,"endTime":2000.48,"body":"Yeah, it was. It was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1997.0,"endTime":2000.48,"body":"hard. But the thing is, like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2000.48,"endTime":2003.39,"body":"believed in the power of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2000.48,"endTime":2003.39,"body":"gathering with covenant people."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2003.6,"endTime":2005.91,"body":"And so I was kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2003.6,"endTime":2005.91,"body":"planning this life for myself,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2005.91,"endTime":2008.34,"body":"like, what's my life gonna look"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2005.91,"endTime":2008.34,"body":"like as an excommunicated"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2008.34,"endTime":2011.04,"body":"member, because that's, again,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2008.34,"endTime":2011.04,"body":"like, I don't think that's gonna"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2011.04,"endTime":2013.5,"body":"happen anymore. But at that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2011.04,"endTime":2013.5,"body":"point in my life, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2013.5,"endTime":2017.82,"body":"that's where everyone else's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2013.5,"endTime":2017.82,"body":"life has gone. And I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2017.82,"endTime":2021.9,"body":"still want to gather with the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2017.82,"endTime":2021.9,"body":"covenant people, I want to fill"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2021.9,"endTime":2027.06,"body":"my life with people who put God"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2021.9,"endTime":2027.06,"body":"first and see the value in being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2027.09,"endTime":2029.88,"body":"Christ-like, and taking upon"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2027.09,"endTime":2029.88,"body":"them the name of Christ. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2029.88,"endTime":2034.44,"body":"even myself, I was like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2029.88,"endTime":2034.44,"body":"going to take upon myself the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2034.44,"endTime":2037.68,"body":"name of Christ, like, I hope I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2034.44,"endTime":2037.68,"body":"always do that. And I can strive"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2037.68,"endTime":2041.64,"body":"to be that type of person and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2037.68,"endTime":2041.64,"body":"develop those characteristics. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2041.64,"endTime":2046.23,"body":"feel like I have so much more of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2041.64,"endTime":2046.23,"body":"a robust view on on what it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2046.23,"endTime":2051.27,"body":"means to seek God now. And, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2046.23,"endTime":2051.27,"body":"I think wherever you are,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2051.27,"endTime":2053.61,"body":"whatever your life life looks"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2051.27,"endTime":2053.61,"body":"like, if you're married, if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2053.61,"endTime":2055.71,"body":"you're in a mixed orientation,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2053.61,"endTime":2055.71,"body":"marriage, if you want to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2055.71,"endTime":2057.57,"body":"celibate, forever, if you want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2055.71,"endTime":2057.57,"body":"to enter in a same sex"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2057.57,"endTime":2061.05,"body":"relationship, you can always see"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2057.57,"endTime":2061.05,"body":"God and, and work to keep"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2061.38,"endTime":2062.73,"body":"covenants that you've made."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2063.63,"endTime":2065.76,"body":"Yeah, Charlie, what I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2063.63,"endTime":2065.76,"body":"hearing you say is like to you,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2065.76,"endTime":2069.12,"body":"like the root of your covenants"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2065.76,"endTime":2069.12,"body":"is, is keeping the commandments"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2069.12,"endTime":2073.08,"body":"that God has given to you and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2069.12,"endTime":2073.08,"body":"acting in a Christ-like way."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2073.36,"endTime":2075.94,"body":"I really love the Book"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2073.36,"endTime":2075.94,"body":"of Mormon. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2075.94,"endTime":2080.95,"body":"one of the main reasons I love"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2075.94,"endTime":2080.95,"body":"it. Because the theme of it is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2081.22,"endTime":2085.15,"body":"moving through the wilderness"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2081.22,"endTime":2085.15,"body":"and trusting God and, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2085.15,"endTime":2088.15,"body":"keeping commandments and having"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2085.15,"endTime":2088.15,"body":"that, being led to a promised"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2088.15,"endTime":2092.71,"body":"land. I think that happens so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2088.15,"endTime":2092.71,"body":"much and like even probably the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2092.71,"endTime":2096.61,"body":"most dramatic version is Nephi"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2092.71,"endTime":2096.61,"body":"whose family is uprooted and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2096.64,"endTime":2098.86,"body":"goes through this wilderness and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2096.64,"endTime":2098.86,"body":"they have to do a lot of things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2098.86,"endTime":2100.93,"body":"that they don't really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2098.86,"endTime":2100.93,"body":"understand. And like these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2100.93,"endTime":2103.48,"body":"covenants or like these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2100.93,"endTime":2103.48,"body":"commandments that they were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2103.48,"endTime":2106.6,"body":"keeping weren't even really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2103.48,"endTime":2106.6,"body":"moral. Like, it wasn't like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2106.81,"endTime":2110.89,"body":"don't have sex, it was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2106.81,"endTime":2110.89,"body":"build this boat to be led to a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2110.89,"endTime":2114.67,"body":"promised land. And he was, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2110.89,"endTime":2114.67,"body":"he followed what he knew he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2114.67,"endTime":2117.19,"body":"should do and was led to a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2114.67,"endTime":2117.19,"body":"promised land. And then that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2117.19,"endTime":2119.95,"body":"reminds me of the story you just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2117.19,"endTime":2119.95,"body":"told of like, staying in this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2119.95,"endTime":2122.29,"body":"master's program after you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2119.95,"endTime":2122.29,"body":"already had a PhD in something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2122.29,"endTime":2122.77,"body":"different."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2122.95,"endTime":2123.88,"body":"It was exhausting."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2123.91,"endTime":2126.94,"body":"Yeah. Like, like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2123.91,"endTime":2126.94,"body":"remember talking to you. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2127.21,"endTime":2129.61,"body":"it's funny, cuz you're like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2127.21,"endTime":2129.61,"body":"this program is so hard and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2129.61,"endTime":2131.59,"body":"like, almost destroyed me. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2129.61,"endTime":2131.59,"body":"I'm in the same program right"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2131.59,"endTime":2134.35,"body":"now. And I'm like, really, Ben?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2131.59,"endTime":2134.35,"body":"Not that hard."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2134.35,"endTime":2135.16,"body":"I was exhausted."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2135.19,"endTime":2136.93,"body":"Like, you had a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2135.19,"endTime":2136.93,"body":"different things going on in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2136.93,"endTime":2140.83,"body":"your life, you know, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2136.93,"endTime":2140.83,"body":"just smarter than you. I'm just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2140.83,"endTime":2141.1,"body":"kidding."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2141.82,"endTime":2143.26,"body":"I just did more homework"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2141.82,"endTime":2143.26,"body":"than you did."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2143.5,"endTime":2147.58,"body":"That's probably true."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2143.5,"endTime":2147.58,"body":"But like, you kept that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2147.58,"endTime":2151.33,"body":"commandment, like, like what you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2147.58,"endTime":2151.33,"body":"felt was right for you. And you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2151.33,"endTime":2153.52,"body":"were led to a promised land"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2151.33,"endTime":2153.52,"body":"where now you can help a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2153.52,"endTime":2156.97,"body":"people and use those skills that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2153.52,"endTime":2156.97,"body":"you've gained to keep your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2156.97,"endTime":2160.72,"body":"covenant of building the kingdom"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2156.97,"endTime":2160.72,"body":"of God. And like establishing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2160.72,"endTime":2164.86,"body":"more, a more beautiful Zion. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2160.72,"endTime":2164.86,"body":"that's why I love the Book of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2164.86,"endTime":2168.04,"body":"Mormon. But you know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2164.86,"endTime":2168.04,"body":"saying, like, like, that is the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2168.04,"endTime":2171.37,"body":"theme. Like, I'm hoping this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2168.04,"endTime":2171.37,"body":"message conveys and with all of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2171.37,"endTime":2175.57,"body":"like, the mess and like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2171.37,"endTime":2175.57,"body":"gymnastics and like, vernacular"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2175.57,"endTime":2178.81,"body":"that we're trying to, like, get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2175.57,"endTime":2178.81,"body":"around to like, like, that's the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2178.81,"endTime":2181.33,"body":"point I'm trying to make, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2178.81,"endTime":2181.33,"body":"keeping the commandments leads"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2181.33,"endTime":2184.27,"body":"you to the promised land. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2181.33,"endTime":2184.27,"body":"like, that is like the root of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2184.27,"endTime":2188.05,"body":"our gospel is centered in Jesus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2184.27,"endTime":2188.05,"body":"Christ. And, and I really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2188.05,"endTime":2192.13,"body":"believe that no matter who you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2188.05,"endTime":2192.13,"body":"are, there's ways to do that and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2192.13,"endTime":2192.79,"body":"improve."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2192.96,"endTime":2195.06,"body":"Yeah, yeah. As you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2192.96,"endTime":2195.06,"body":"talking, I was thinking about,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2195.09,"endTime":2198.51,"body":"you know, the saints and Nauvoo"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2195.09,"endTime":2198.51,"body":"and before they went west, they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2198.51,"endTime":2201.18,"body":"there's this meeting the temple"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2198.51,"endTime":2201.18,"body":"and everyone there covenanted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2201.18,"endTime":2203.25,"body":"that they would make sure that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2201.18,"endTime":2203.25,"body":"everyone who wanted to get to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2203.25,"endTime":2205.53,"body":"Zion would get to get there, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2203.25,"endTime":2205.53,"body":"they wouldn't leave anyone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2205.53,"endTime":2209.4,"body":"behind. And so what that meant"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2205.53,"endTime":2209.4,"body":"was all along the way, like in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2209.4,"endTime":2211.98,"body":"Iowa they, you know, they had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2209.4,"endTime":2211.98,"body":"these way stations where they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2211.98,"endTime":2214.8,"body":"like, built houses and planted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2211.98,"endTime":2214.8,"body":"crops that they wouldn't even"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2214.8,"endTime":2218.16,"body":"get to eat, because of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2214.8,"endTime":2218.16,"body":"people that were coming after"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2218.16,"endTime":2221.73,"body":"them. And, you know, I think,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2218.16,"endTime":2221.73,"body":"you know, as I, as I like, try"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2221.73,"endTime":2223.89,"body":"and think about, like, what does"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2221.73,"endTime":2223.89,"body":"it mean to me to, like, live my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2223.89,"endTime":2226.83,"body":"covenants, that means, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2223.89,"endTime":2226.83,"body":"binding myself to God, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2226.83,"endTime":2230.37,"body":"binding myself to those around"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2226.83,"endTime":2230.37,"body":"me. And, you know, when we are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2230.37,"endTime":2233.1,"body":"connected with God, and when we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2230.37,"endTime":2233.1,"body":"are deeply connected with, with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2233.1,"endTime":2236.4,"body":"the people in our lives, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2233.1,"endTime":2236.4,"body":"that is like that is what the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2236.4,"endTime":2240.33,"body":"covenant path means to me. And,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2236.4,"endTime":2240.33,"body":"you know, I hope that that we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2240.33,"endTime":2243.21,"body":"can, that we can, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2240.33,"endTime":2243.21,"body":"plant some crops for people that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2243.21,"endTime":2246.39,"body":"come after us and send some,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2243.21,"endTime":2246.39,"body":"send some wagons back to people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2246.39,"endTime":2249.15,"body":"who who need some support,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2246.39,"endTime":2249.15,"body":"because, you know, there are a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2249.15,"endTime":2251.67,"body":"lot of people who are, who are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2249.15,"endTime":2251.67,"body":"struggling and suffering and,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2251.94,"endTime":2255.45,"body":"and, you know, for me, and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2251.94,"endTime":2255.45,"body":"think for many people keeping"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2255.45,"endTime":2257.91,"body":"our keeping our covenants means"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2255.45,"endTime":2257.91,"body":"that we're going to help those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2257.91,"endTime":2260.49,"body":"people who, who want to come to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2257.91,"endTime":2260.49,"body":"Zion who don't quite have the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2260.49,"endTime":2261.57,"body":"strength to get there on their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2260.49,"endTime":2261.57,"body":"own."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2261.78,"endTime":2265.02,"body":"Yeah. I couldn't agree"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2261.78,"endTime":2265.02,"body":"more. Ben, do you keep your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2265.02,"endTime":2265.77,"body":"covenants?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2265.89,"endTime":2269.4,"body":"I try my very best to thank"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2265.89,"endTime":2269.4,"body":"you, Bishop and Stake President"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2269.4,"endTime":2273.87,"body":"in my temple recommend"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2269.4,"endTime":2273.87,"body":"interview. I really go because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2273.87,"endTime":2275.61,"body":"the question that temple"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2273.87,"endTime":2275.61,"body":"recommend interview, I believe"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2275.61,"endTime":2277.41,"body":"is do you strive to keep your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2275.61,"endTime":2277.41,"body":"covenants?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2277.45,"endTime":2281.86,"body":"Really? Ben like, wooo,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2277.45,"endTime":2281.86,"body":"we should have brought that up"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2281.86,"endTime":2282.25,"body":"earlier."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2282.31,"endTime":2282.97,"body":"I just thought of it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2283.6,"endTime":2285.91,"body":"You see that's much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2283.6,"endTime":2285.91,"body":"better. That makes me way less"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2285.91,"endTime":2286.63,"body":"stressed too."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2287.44,"endTime":2289.21,"body":"Because it's not about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2287.44,"endTime":2289.21,"body":"like, do your don't you? It's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2289.3,"endTime":2290.2,"body":"\"are you doing your best?\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2290.23,"endTime":2294.01,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2290.23,"endTime":2294.01,"body":"and like, for those who are so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2294.01,"endTime":2297.91,"body":"curious, like, Yeah, I do. Like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2294.01,"endTime":2297.91,"body":"I honestly strive to keep my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2297.91,"endTime":2302.02,"body":"covenants. And and I'm happy and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2297.91,"endTime":2302.02,"body":"I feel like I have been led to a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2302.02,"endTime":2302.92,"body":"more Promised Land."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2302.93,"endTime":2304.34,"body":"Yeah, I think that's what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2302.93,"endTime":2304.34,"body":"President Nelson was saying in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2304.34,"endTime":2308.27,"body":"that, quote that you read that,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2304.34,"endTime":2308.27,"body":"you know, it's not about how far"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2308.27,"endTime":2311.81,"body":"you are or how well you're doing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2308.27,"endTime":2311.81,"body":"just, if you're keeping if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2311.81,"endTime":2314.84,"body":"you're doing your best with the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2311.81,"endTime":2314.84,"body":"covenants you've made, and like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2314.87,"endTime":2318.71,"body":"keeping, like one or two or part"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2314.87,"endTime":2318.71,"body":"of covenants, like, that's,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2318.89,"endTime":2321.86,"body":"like, that's enough like that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2318.89,"endTime":2321.86,"body":"propelling you forward. And one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2321.86,"endTime":2324.05,"body":"thing my Bishop said, which I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2321.86,"endTime":2324.05,"body":"really like, is he said, \"God"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2324.05,"endTime":2326.33,"body":"doesn't care if you're at the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2324.05,"endTime":2326.33,"body":"top of the stairs or the bottom"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2326.33,"endTime":2329.21,"body":"of the stairs, he just cares"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2326.33,"endTime":2329.21,"body":"that you're looking up.\" Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2329.27,"endTime":2332.15,"body":"and President Worthen at BYU"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2329.27,"endTime":2332.15,"body":"said something really similar."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2332.15,"endTime":2335.45,"body":"He said, like \"To God, time is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2332.15,"endTime":2335.45,"body":"irrelevant. And so he doesn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2335.45,"endTime":2338.39,"body":"care how far down the path you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2335.45,"endTime":2338.39,"body":"are, he just cares which"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2338.39,"endTime":2339.35,"body":"direction you're heading.\""},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2339.71,"endTime":2342.62,"body":"And I can also like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2339.71,"endTime":2342.62,"body":"add a testimony that, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2342.62,"endTime":2346.94,"body":"striving to keep my covenants"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2342.62,"endTime":2346.94,"body":"brings me increased peace. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2346.97,"endTime":2351.11,"body":"especially in this realm, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2346.97,"endTime":2351.11,"body":"like, even this episode was very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2351.14,"endTime":2355.43,"body":"confusing and muddled, you know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2351.14,"endTime":2355.43,"body":"like, times that by like, 70,000"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2355.43,"endTime":2358.13,"body":"and then that's my life. You"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2355.43,"endTime":2358.13,"body":"know, like, that's how I feel."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2358.55,"endTime":2361.82,"body":"But as I started to keep my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2358.55,"endTime":2361.82,"body":"covenants, like, I have peace,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2361.85,"endTime":2365.18,"body":"and I feel like my mind has been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2361.85,"endTime":2365.18,"body":"enlarged, and so has my heart,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2365.45,"endTime":2369.86,"body":"that I'm able to understand more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2365.45,"endTime":2369.86,"body":"fully, who I am, how to fulfill"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2369.86,"endTime":2374.15,"body":"the measure of my creation, what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2369.86,"endTime":2374.15,"body":"purpose God has for me, and and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2374.15,"endTime":2378.14,"body":"like I have every intent of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2374.15,"endTime":2378.14,"body":"always striving to keep my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2378.14,"endTime":2380.66,"body":"covenants because they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2378.14,"endTime":2380.66,"body":"meaningful to me. They're sacred"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2380.66,"endTime":2381.02,"body":"to me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2381.0,"endTime":2384.6,"body":"Yeah, same. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2381.0,"endTime":2384.6,"body":"for me, like, I think I was the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2384.6,"endTime":2387.75,"body":"worst spot when I was myopically"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2384.6,"endTime":2387.75,"body":"ask myself, am I gonna have sex"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2387.75,"endTime":2390.24,"body":"with a man or am I not gonna"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2387.75,"endTime":2390.24,"body":"have sex with a man. Like when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2390.24,"endTime":2393.18,"body":"just made it like that the focus"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2390.24,"endTime":2393.18,"body":"of my life like is this is like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2393.18,"endTime":2395.88,"body":"this is I'm gonna do this or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2393.18,"endTime":2395.88,"body":"this. That's when things were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2395.88,"endTime":2399.09,"body":"bad for me. And when I kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2395.88,"endTime":2399.09,"body":"had a broader view of like, what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2399.12,"endTime":2402.9,"body":"God was calling me to do that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2399.12,"endTime":2402.9,"body":"when life got a lot more, a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2402.93,"endTime":2411.27,"body":"more better, more better. mucho"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2402.93,"endTime":2411.27,"body":"mas mejor. That's when once I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2411.27,"endTime":2413.58,"body":"got rid of that myopic focus,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2411.27,"endTime":2413.58,"body":"that's when life got a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2413.58,"endTime":2414.06,"body":"better for me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2414.19,"endTime":2415.51,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, me too."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2417.369,"endTime":2419.769,"body":"Thank you for joining us"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2417.369,"endTime":2419.769,"body":"today. If you have enjoyed this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2419.799,"endTime":2422.049,"body":"or other episodes, please"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2419.799,"endTime":2422.049,"body":"consider leaving a review,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2422.319,"endTime":2424.629,"body":"following us on Instagram or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2422.319,"endTime":2424.629,"body":"Facebook  at questions from th"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2424.629,"endTime":2428.019,"body":"closet, or sharing this podcas"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2424.629,"endTime":2428.019,"body":"with someone you love. And a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2428.019,"endTime":2430.569,"body":"always, please remember that w"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2428.019,"endTime":2430.569,"body":"do not represent the Church o"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2430.569,"endTime":2432.609,"body":"Jesus Christ of Latter-da"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2430.569,"endTime":2432.609,"body":"Saints or Brigham Youn"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2432.609,"endTime":2435.339,"body":"University. We're not trying t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2432.609,"endTime":2435.339,"body":"be prescriptive or tell anyon"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2435.339,"endTime":2436.539,"body":"what to think or what to do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2436.899,"endTime":2438.339,"body":"You heard two"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2436.899,"endTime":2438.339,"body":"perspectives, and there are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2438.339,"endTime":2441.279,"body":"many, many more. We encourage"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2438.339,"endTime":2441.279,"body":"you to listen to other voices"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2441.279,"endTime":2444.279,"body":"and hear a wide variety of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2441.279,"endTime":2444.279,"body":"experiences. If you would like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2444.279,"endTime":2447.159,"body":"to submit a question or share a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2444.279,"endTime":2447.159,"body":"comment about today's episode,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2447.219,"endTime":2451.089,"body":"you can email us at questions"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2447.219,"endTime":2451.089,"body":"romthecloset@gmail.com. Until ne"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2451.089,"endTime":2451.659,"body":"t time."}]}