{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2.4,"endTime":5.07,"body":"Welcome to Questions from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2.4,"endTime":5.07,"body":"the Closet. I'm Ben Schilaty."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.13,"endTime":7.74,"body":"And I'm Charlie Byrd."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.13,"endTime":7.74,"body":"Each episode we discuss a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":7.74,"endTime":11.22,"body":"question we commonly get asked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":7.74,"endTime":11.22,"body":"as LGBTQ plus Latter-day Saints."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.34,"endTime":13.95,"body":"We're not trying to answer this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.34,"endTime":13.95,"body":"question or come to a consensus,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.98,"endTime":16.44,"body":"but simply sharing our"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.98,"endTime":16.44,"body":"perspectives. Today's question"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":16.44,"endTime":19.26,"body":"is, what do the scriptures say"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":16.44,"endTime":19.26,"body":"about homosexuality?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":19.81,"endTime":22.09,"body":"Ben and I are not terribly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":19.81,"endTime":22.09,"body":"diverse, and we share many"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.09,"endTime":25.75,"body":"opinions and life experiences."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.09,"endTime":25.75,"body":"For example, we have both read"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":25.75,"endTime":27.31,"body":"the entire standard works of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":25.75,"endTime":27.31,"body":"scripture."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":27.64,"endTime":29.8,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":27.64,"endTime":29.8,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":29.8,"endTime":33.4,"body":"example, I didn't read all the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":29.8,"endTime":33.4,"body":"standard works until I was 24."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":33.73,"endTime":35.44,"body":"I read them all before"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":33.73,"endTime":35.44,"body":"I was 12."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":36.31,"endTime":37.18,"body":"That's very impressive."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":37.0,"endTime":39.82,"body":"I would I was a nerd."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":37.0,"endTime":39.82,"body":"And before I got the aaronic"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":39.82,"endTime":43.93,"body":"priesthood, I was I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":39.82,"endTime":43.93,"body":"very, I guess I still am. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":43.93,"endTime":47.74,"body":"was very, like, religious, very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":43.93,"endTime":47.74,"body":"pious, and I was like, I want to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":47.74,"endTime":49.72,"body":"make sure I know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":47.74,"endTime":49.72,"body":"getting into before I get the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":49.72,"endTime":54.67,"body":"priesthood. And so my grandpa"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":49.72,"endTime":54.67,"body":"had like tapes, like cassette"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":54.67,"endTime":58.36,"body":"tapes of all the standard works."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":54.67,"endTime":58.36,"body":"So every night I would play them"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":58.36,"endTime":63.1,"body":"and read along, and it took me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":58.36,"endTime":63.1,"body":"like, forever. The Old"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":62.82,"endTime":65.64,"body":"It's very long. So I was, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":62.82,"endTime":65.64,"body":"mean, I was also hopefully pious"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":63.1,"endTime":63.82,"body":"Testament's long."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.64,"endTime":68.97,"body":"and good. But when I was was my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.64,"endTime":68.97,"body":"best friend Mitch in high"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":67.89,"endTime":86.61,"body":"Wow, I don't know that about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":67.89,"endTime":86.61,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":68.97,"endTime":73.29,"body":"school, the one I came out to,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":68.97,"endTime":73.29,"body":"he is a huge jokester in one day"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":73.29,"endTime":76.56,"body":"and Sunday school he was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":73.29,"endTime":76.56,"body":"e would always make stuff up."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":76.65,"endTime":78.87,"body":"nd so he was talking about this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":76.65,"endTime":78.87,"body":"uy in the Book of Mormon who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":78.87,"endTime":81.54,"body":"ut off people's arms and showed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":78.87,"endTime":81.54,"body":"im to the king. We're like, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":81.54,"endTime":84.21,"body":"are insane. That did not happen."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":81.54,"endTime":84.21,"body":"He was like, \"No, I swear.\" I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":84.21,"endTime":87.63,"body":"as like, \"No, this we're like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":84.21,"endTime":87.63,"body":"you are insane.\" None of us ha"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":87.63,"endTime":90.09,"body":"read the Book of Mormon. And th"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":87.63,"endTime":90.09,"body":"n when we were like, 17,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":89.46,"endTime":98.4,"body":"And I read the Old"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":89.46,"endTime":98.4,"body":"Testament when I was like, 24."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":90.09,"endTime":91.47,"body":"and talking about going on miss"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":90.09,"endTime":91.47,"body":"ons, I was like, I should"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":91.47,"endTime":93.21,"body":"probably read the Book of Mormo"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":91.47,"endTime":93.21,"body":". So that's when I read it fo"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":93.21,"endTime":95.64,"body":"the first time when I was 17."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":98.58,"endTime":100.41,"body":"And you had the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":98.58,"endTime":100.41,"body":"audacity to be seminary"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":100.41,"endTime":101.49,"body":"president as a freshman."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":101.52,"endTime":103.11,"body":"Well, I read the Doctrine,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":101.52,"endTime":103.11,"body":"so I read the Doctrine and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":103.11,"endTime":105.24,"body":"Covenants, and then the New"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":103.11,"endTime":105.24,"body":"Testament and then the Book of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":105.24,"endTime":105.9,"body":"Mormon."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":106.17,"endTime":108.9,"body":"Awesome. Well, we like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":106.17,"endTime":108.9,"body":"to provide a variety of voices"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":108.9,"endTime":111.24,"body":"and perspectives. And today"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":108.9,"endTime":111.24,"body":"we're joined by Dr. Eric"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":111.24,"endTime":112.62,"body":"Huntsman. Welcome."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":112.77,"endTime":113.88,"body":"Thanks. Thanks"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":112.77,"endTime":113.88,"body":"for having me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":113.91,"endTime":115.56,"body":"Yeah. So Eric, tell us a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":113.91,"endTime":115.56,"body":"little bit about yourself."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":115.59,"endTime":118.32,"body":"So my name is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":115.59,"endTime":118.32,"body":"Eric and I am a professor of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":118.35,"endTime":122.25,"body":"ancient scripture at BYU. I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":118.35,"endTime":122.25,"body":"started teaching in 1994. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":122.25,"endTime":123.06,"body":"older than I look."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":123.06,"endTime":123.93,"body":"That was so long ago."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":123.96,"endTime":125.37,"body":"Yeah, I was one years"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":123.96,"endTime":125.37,"body":"old."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":125.36,"endTime":128.15,"body":"I agree. I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":125.36,"endTime":128.15,"body":"graduated from BYU."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":128.21,"endTime":130.13,"body":"You're so well preserved,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":128.21,"endTime":130.13,"body":"what is your trick?"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":130.25,"endTime":134.03,"body":"I don't eat much"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":130.25,"endTime":134.03,"body":"and I exercise compulsively and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":134.06,"endTime":135.05,"body":"good genes, I guess."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":135.08,"endTime":136.1,"body":"Okay. All right."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":136.16,"endTime":138.59,"body":"So anyway, I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":136.16,"endTime":138.59,"body":"graduated from BYU in 1990, with"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":138.59,"endTime":141.08,"body":"a double major in classical"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":138.59,"endTime":141.08,"body":"Greek and Latin, which what do"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":141.08,"endTime":143.9,"body":"you do with that? So I went to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":141.08,"endTime":143.9,"body":"grad school and got an MA and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":143.9,"endTime":146.66,"body":"PhD at the University of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":143.9,"endTime":146.66,"body":"Pennsylvania in ancient history."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":146.69,"endTime":149.45,"body":"So I was a Greek and Roman"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":146.69,"endTime":149.45,"body":"historian. I met my wife in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":149.45,"endTime":152.3,"body":"Philadelphia, she's a jersey"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":149.45,"endTime":152.3,"body":"girl, got married the year"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":152.3,"endTime":156.59,"body":"before we took the BYU job, from"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":152.3,"endTime":156.59,"body":"94 to 2003. I actually was in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":156.59,"endTime":158.96,"body":"humanities. I taught classics."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":156.59,"endTime":158.96,"body":"So I thought Greek and Latin,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":158.96,"endTime":160.88,"body":"Greek history, mythology,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":160.91,"endTime":161.99,"body":"I love that stuff."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":161.99,"endTime":163.97,"body":"But then I as I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":161.99,"endTime":163.97,"body":"describe it to people, I got"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":163.97,"endTime":166.64,"body":"religion in 2003. And I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":163.97,"endTime":166.64,"body":"transferred over to ancient"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":166.64,"endTime":168.8,"body":"scripture, because what I really"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":166.64,"endTime":168.8,"body":"wanted to teach was the New"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":168.8,"endTime":171.35,"body":"Testament. And what I really"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":168.8,"endTime":171.35,"body":"wanted to teach was the ministry"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":171.35,"endTime":175.55,"body":"of Jesus. So I specialize in the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":171.35,"endTime":175.55,"body":"gospels, particularly the Gospel"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":175.55,"endTime":178.43,"body":"of John. Cool. So that's what I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":175.55,"endTime":178.43,"body":"do professionally. As I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":178.43,"endTime":181.07,"body":"mentioned, I met my wife back"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":178.43,"endTime":181.07,"body":"east. She was working on her"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":181.07,"endTime":183.38,"body":"master's at a place called"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":181.07,"endTime":183.38,"body":"Drexel, which is a campus right"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":183.38,"endTime":186.23,"body":"next to Penn. And we have two"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":183.38,"endTime":186.23,"body":"children. We have a daughter"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":186.23,"endTime":189.56,"body":"named Rachel, she and her"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":186.23,"endTime":189.56,"body":"husband Luke, moved in with us"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":189.56,"endTime":191.9,"body":"during COVID. They're supposed"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":189.56,"endTime":191.9,"body":"to be watching our house while"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":191.9,"endTime":193.97,"body":"we're in Israel. I supposed to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":191.9,"endTime":193.97,"body":"be the Academic Director of the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":193.97,"endTime":194.87,"body":"Jerusalem center. But..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":194.9,"endTime":195.83,"body":"That sounds so cool."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":195.03,"endTime":198.69,"body":"...can't get out of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":195.03,"endTime":198.69,"body":"country. Thanks to the virus. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":198.69,"endTime":201.63,"body":"have a son named Samuel who's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":198.69,"endTime":201.63,"body":"eight teen. He's our special"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":201.63,"endTime":204.99,"body":"needs son. He has autism. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":201.63,"endTime":204.99,"body":"always get a little verklempt,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":205.14,"endTime":208.11,"body":"to the Jewish expression,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":205.14,"endTime":208.11,"body":"talking about Sam because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":208.11,"endTime":210.9,"body":"think actually what we're going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":208.11,"endTime":210.9,"body":"to talk about today, my heart"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.9,"endTime":214.83,"body":"was blown wide open by this boy."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.9,"endTime":214.83,"body":"He was he was diagnosed when he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":214.83,"endTime":218.76,"body":"was three and a half, four. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":214.83,"endTime":218.76,"body":"because his life experience"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":218.76,"endTime":221.55,"body":"ended up being so much different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":218.76,"endTime":221.55,"body":"than what we had hoped for him."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.12,"endTime":224.76,"body":"Because he doesn't have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.12,"endTime":224.76,"body":"relationships because he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":224.76,"endTime":230.31,"body":"probably won't marry. I just, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":224.76,"endTime":230.31,"body":"learned to be a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":230.55,"endTime":233.82,"body":"open to different experiences."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":230.55,"endTime":233.82,"body":"You know, I just grew up and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":233.82,"endTime":236.28,"body":"was even though I grew up back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":233.82,"endTime":236.28,"body":"east, I went from, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":236.28,"endTime":238.77,"body":"sixth generation latter-day"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":236.28,"endTime":238.77,"body":"saint family. We were Mormons"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":238.77,"endTime":241.08,"body":"then. But now we're just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":238.77,"endTime":241.08,"body":"latter-day saints. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":241.08,"endTime":243.78,"body":"I just grew up with all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":241.08,"endTime":243.78,"body":"normal church expectations. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":243.78,"endTime":246.15,"body":"served a mission in Thailand."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":243.78,"endTime":246.15,"body":"You know, I was Elders Quorum"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":246.15,"endTime":248.01,"body":"President. I served in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":246.15,"endTime":248.01,"body":"bishopric in Philadelphia. I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":248.01,"endTime":250.56,"body":"been a bishop. I had all these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":248.01,"endTime":250.56,"body":"things. I was just checking the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":250.56,"endTime":253.83,"body":"boxes being the typical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":250.56,"endTime":253.83,"body":"faithful, hyperactive in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":253.83,"endTime":257.76,"body":"church, latter-day saint. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":253.83,"endTime":257.76,"body":"something, one of the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":257.88,"endTime":261.15,"body":"important people in my life. We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":257.88,"endTime":261.15,"body":"found out he wasn't going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":261.15,"endTime":265.47,"body":"have the life we wanted for him."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":261.15,"endTime":265.47,"body":"And it just made me look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":265.47,"endTime":268.59,"body":"things very, very differently. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":265.47,"endTime":268.59,"body":"mentioned that I was a bishop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":268.59,"endTime":271.23,"body":"when I was a young man. I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":268.59,"endTime":271.23,"body":"downtown in Provo, down by the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":271.23,"endTime":273.42,"body":"hospital and the power plant,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":271.23,"endTime":273.42,"body":"the old power plant. It's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":273.42,"endTime":276.87,"body":"there anymore. And you know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":273.42,"endTime":276.87,"body":"was working with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.87,"endTime":281.01,"body":"transient people, a very socio"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.87,"endTime":281.01,"body":"economically impacted area. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":281.01,"endTime":285.48,"body":"just suddenly my world that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":281.01,"endTime":285.48,"body":"so clean, and the lines were so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":285.48,"endTime":288.6,"body":"firmly drawn. You know, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":285.48,"endTime":288.6,"body":"were people with psychological"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":288.6,"endTime":290.43,"body":"problems. There were people with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":288.6,"endTime":290.43,"body":"economic problems. There were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":290.43,"endTime":294.54,"body":"people with social problems. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":290.43,"endTime":294.54,"body":"gradually met people from the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":294.54,"endTime":298.35,"body":"LGBTQ community. I made friends"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":294.54,"endTime":298.35,"body":"with people with different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":298.35,"endTime":301.77,"body":"racial and ethnic backgrounds."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":298.35,"endTime":301.77,"body":"Then suddenly, it was not enough"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":301.77,"endTime":305.19,"body":"to just be your stereotypical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":301.77,"endTime":305.19,"body":"Wasatch Front whitebread as my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":305.19,"endTime":309.09,"body":"friend Tamiu Smith calls, those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":305.19,"endTime":309.09,"body":"of us who are pigment, pigment"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":309.09,"endTime":312.93,"body":"impaired. Tamiu and Zandra"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":309.09,"endTime":312.93,"body":"Veins, the sisters in Zion."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":312.96,"endTime":316.38,"body":"They're amazing. Yeah. So they,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":312.96,"endTime":316.38,"body":"they've opened my eyes to many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":316.38,"endTime":319.44,"body":"things. So anyway, that's just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":316.38,"endTime":319.44,"body":"little bit about me. I that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":319.44,"endTime":321.18,"body":"wasn't quite the normal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":319.44,"endTime":321.18,"body":"introduction, but it will, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":321.18,"endTime":324.96,"body":"think, help explain a little bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":321.18,"endTime":324.96,"body":"about why I approached this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":324.96,"endTime":327.96,"body":"particular issue the way I do."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":324.96,"endTime":327.96,"body":"And since I think we're going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":327.96,"endTime":331.86,"body":"talk about homosexuality and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":327.96,"endTime":331.86,"body":"scriptures. I'm more like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":331.86,"endTime":335.25,"body":"Charlie than Ben. Sorry, Ben, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":331.86,"endTime":335.25,"body":"read the standard works"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":335.25,"endTime":337.95,"body":"compulsively as a child. I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":335.25,"endTime":337.95,"body":"very obsessive compulsive. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":337.95,"endTime":340.53,"body":"often will joke with people,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":337.95,"endTime":340.53,"body":"\"Obsessive compulsive, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":340.53,"endTime":345.54,"body":"it's a disorder but we get more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":340.53,"endTime":345.54,"body":"done than other people.\" Anyway,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":345.54,"endTime":349.05,"body":"so when I was a, when I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":345.54,"endTime":349.05,"body":"starting seminary, 14, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":349.05,"endTime":352.65,"body":"Old Testament. And it's because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":349.05,"endTime":352.65,"body":"I'm competitive I read the Old"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":352.65,"endTime":354.39,"body":"Testament three times, at 14."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":354.39,"endTime":355.26,"body":"Oh, my goodness."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":355.29,"endTime":356.34,"body":"Yeah, we are similar."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":356.0,"endTime":358.58,"body":"But it's only"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":356.0,"endTime":358.58,"body":"because the teacher had one of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":358.58,"endTime":362.99,"body":"those charts, you know, with the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":358.58,"endTime":362.99,"body":"stars. I was gonna be the first"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":362.99,"endTime":365.18,"body":"one done. And then I was gonna"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":362.99,"endTime":365.18,"body":"do it again. And then I was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":365.18,"endTime":367.16,"body":"gonna do it again. And then I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":365.18,"endTime":367.16,"body":"thought, well, then I'll read"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":367.16,"endTime":369.32,"body":"the rest of the standard works."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":367.16,"endTime":369.32,"body":"And so I had this thing going on"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":369.32,"endTime":372.26,"body":"in seminary, that each year, I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":369.32,"endTime":372.26,"body":"would read whatever text we were"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":372.26,"endTime":374.36,"body":"studying two or three times, and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":372.26,"endTime":374.36,"body":"then read everything else."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":374.39,"endTime":374.87,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":375.05,"endTime":378.35,"body":"So anyway, I love"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":375.05,"endTime":378.35,"body":"scripture. And I love to talk"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":378.35,"endTime":381.38,"body":"about it. When I teach"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":378.35,"endTime":381.38,"body":"scripture, we use some pretty"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":381.38,"endTime":384.83,"body":"funky terms. The things you"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":381.38,"endTime":384.83,"body":"actually probably already do."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":384.83,"endTime":387.05,"body":"But sometimes I tell my"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":384.83,"endTime":387.05,"body":"students, if you learn the, the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":387.05,"endTime":389.84,"body":"jargon for it, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":387.05,"endTime":389.84,"body":"technical terms, sometimes we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":389.84,"endTime":392.21,"body":"use a different term or"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":389.84,"endTime":392.21,"body":"expression for something that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":392.21,"endTime":395.48,"body":"you're already doing, it makes"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":392.21,"endTime":395.48,"body":"you look at it differently. So"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":395.48,"endTime":398.78,"body":"for instance, you know, we all"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":395.48,"endTime":398.78,"body":"know from first Nephi 19, about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":398.81,"endTime":401.03,"body":"likening all scriptures to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":398.81,"endTime":401.03,"body":"yourself, what's the word for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":401.03,"endTime":403.16,"body":"that? Well, the technical term"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":401.03,"endTime":403.16,"body":"for that is exposition, you're"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":403.16,"endTime":406.58,"body":"taking something and applying it"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":403.16,"endTime":406.58,"body":"to yourself. The term for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":406.58,"endTime":409.7,"body":"understanding the original"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":406.58,"endTime":409.7,"body":"meaning of a text to its initial"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":409.7,"endTime":412.67,"body":"audience is exegesis, which"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":409.7,"endTime":412.67,"body":"comes from the Greek to lead out"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":412.67,"endTime":416.12,"body":"the meaning, actually, it's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":412.67,"endTime":416.12,"body":"trying to establish the presumed"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":416.12,"endTime":417.71,"body":"original meaning of the text,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":416.12,"endTime":417.71,"body":"because..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":417.74,"endTime":418.22,"body":"We don't know."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":418.25,"endTime":419.21,"body":"We don't know for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":418.25,"endTime":419.21,"body":"sure."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":419.27,"endTime":420.08,"body":"That's exegesis."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":420.0,"endTime":423.0,"body":"So that's exegesis. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":420.0,"endTime":423.0,"body":"what we do is we look at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":423.0,"endTime":425.22,"body":"language and we look at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":423.0,"endTime":425.22,"body":"author, and we look at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.22,"endTime":428.46,"body":"audience and the culture, and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.22,"endTime":428.46,"body":"try to understand what that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":428.46,"endTime":432.12,"body":"would have meant to the original"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":428.46,"endTime":432.12,"body":"audience. It's what I, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.12,"endTime":434.64,"body":"simplify it in a religion class,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.12,"endTime":434.64,"body":"I say, what does it mean to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":434.64,"endTime":438.3,"body":"them, there, then, and I always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":434.64,"endTime":438.3,"body":"tell my students that you need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.3,"endTime":441.42,"body":"to understand what a passage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.3,"endTime":441.42,"body":"means to them, there, then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.42,"endTime":445.35,"body":"before you do the us, here, now,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.42,"endTime":445.35,"body":"because although the Spirit can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":445.35,"endTime":448.11,"body":"guide you and give you a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":445.35,"endTime":448.11,"body":"personal interpretation and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":448.11,"endTime":451.26,"body":"application of a passage, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":448.11,"endTime":451.26,"body":"that's great, sometimes we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.26,"endTime":454.77,"body":"become a little irresponsible or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.26,"endTime":454.77,"body":"sloppy with our personal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":454.77,"endTime":457.23,"body":"application. So if you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":454.77,"endTime":457.23,"body":"understand what the original"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":457.23,"endTime":460.38,"body":"meaning was to that initial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":457.23,"endTime":460.38,"body":"audience to them, there, then,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.62,"endTime":463.65,"body":"it can kind of guide you in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.62,"endTime":463.65,"body":"being responsible in your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":463.65,"endTime":467.19,"body":"application or your exposition."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":463.65,"endTime":467.19,"body":"Sometimes it's interesting, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":467.19,"endTime":470.4,"body":"sorry, I'm kind of going off in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":467.19,"endTime":470.4,"body":"a sidebar here. Sometimes a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.4,"endTime":472.74,"body":"passage can mean something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.4,"endTime":472.74,"body":"completely different to its"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.74,"endTime":476.13,"body":"original audience, and can mean"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.74,"endTime":476.13,"body":"something valid and true, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":476.13,"endTime":479.28,"body":"completely different to us. An"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":476.13,"endTime":479.28,"body":"example that jumps to mind is"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":479.28,"endTime":482.1,"body":"39, \"Search the"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":479.28,"endTime":482.1,"body":"Scriptures for in them you think"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":482.1,"endTime":485.52,"body":"you have eternal life.\" And we"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":482.1,"endTime":485.52,"body":"always do that and people we"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":485.52,"endTime":487.8,"body":"trust, right? our moms or"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":485.52,"endTime":487.8,"body":"seminar teachers, President"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":487.8,"endTime":490.83,"body":"Monson church leaders have"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":487.8,"endTime":490.83,"body":"always used that passage to say"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":490.83,"endTime":494.04,"body":"we should search and study the"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":490.83,"endTime":494.04,"body":"scriptures. In Greek, it's"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":494.04,"endTime":496.59,"body":"actually unclear whether it's a"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":494.04,"endTime":496.59,"body":"command searched the scriptures,"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":496.59,"endTime":498.87,"body":"or whether it's indicative mood,"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":496.59,"endTime":498.87,"body":"you're searching the scriptures"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":498.87,"endTime":500.58,"body":"because you think you have"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":498.87,"endTime":500.58,"body":"eternal life in them. And"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":500.58,"endTime":503.31,"body":"actually, if you look at the"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":500.58,"endTime":503.31,"body":"original context, Jesus is"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":503.31,"endTime":505.89,"body":"talking to, you know, the"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":503.31,"endTime":505.89,"body":"Pharisees and the Jewish"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":505.89,"endTime":508.98,"body":"leadership in chapter five. He's"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":505.89,"endTime":508.98,"body":"actually saying to them, you"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":508.98,"endTime":512.97,"body":"have your noses in those dusty"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":508.98,"endTime":512.97,"body":"old Torah scrolls, right? Your"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":513.0,"endTime":514.71,"body":"your scrolls of the laws and the"},{"speaker":"John 5","startTime":513.0,"endTime":514.71,"body":"Prophet."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":514.71,"endTime":515.94,"body":"Oh, but they're not gonna"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":514.71,"endTime":515.94,"body":"save you. Jesus Will."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":515.94,"endTime":518.19,"body":"They're not gonna"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":515.94,"endTime":518.19,"body":"save you Jesus is. So that's the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":518.19,"endTime":520.47,"body":"exegetical meaning of that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":518.19,"endTime":520.47,"body":"passage, which is completely"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":520.47,"endTime":521.73,"body":"opposite how we apply it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":521.79,"endTime":522.27,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":522.48,"endTime":525.09,"body":"It doesn't mean how we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":522.48,"endTime":525.09,"body":"apply it is wrong. I mean, God"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.09,"endTime":528.03,"body":"can do whatever he wants with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.09,"endTime":528.03,"body":"his word. And so we can use a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":528.03,"endTime":531.75,"body":"passage to mean something else."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":528.03,"endTime":531.75,"body":"But if you don't know what that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":531.75,"endTime":534.03,"body":"original meaning was, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":531.75,"endTime":534.03,"body":"you're missing a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":534.03,"endTime":536.7,"body":"opportunity. So I often say to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":534.03,"endTime":536.7,"body":"students, because I'm obsessive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":536.7,"endTime":538.98,"body":"compulsive, I read my book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":536.7,"endTime":538.98,"body":"Mormon every morning, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":539.04,"endTime":542.97,"body":"President Benson told me back in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":539.04,"endTime":542.97,"body":"the 80s to do that. If I read my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.97,"endTime":545.76,"body":"Book of Mormon 20 minutes every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.97,"endTime":545.76,"body":"morning, and I think I'm going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.76,"endTime":548.07,"body":"to be saved because I'm reading"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.76,"endTime":548.07,"body":"the Book of Mormon, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":548.07,"endTime":550.8,"body":"going to be saved. It's because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":548.07,"endTime":550.8,"body":"the Book of Mormon is another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":550.8,"endTime":553.23,"body":"testament of Christ. So having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":550.8,"endTime":553.23,"body":"both those meanings, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":553.23,"endTime":556.35,"body":"original meaning, and the way we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":553.23,"endTime":556.35,"body":"usually apply it today in mind,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":556.56,"endTime":559.5,"body":"actually helps me search the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":556.56,"endTime":559.5,"body":"scriptures more responsibility"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":559.5,"endTime":564.18,"body":"to find Jesus. That was a long"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":559.5,"endTime":564.18,"body":"kind of sidebar, as I said, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":564.18,"endTime":566.07,"body":"don't want to get too much in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":564.18,"endTime":566.07,"body":"the weeds. But when we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":566.07,"endTime":570.18,"body":"talking about something as as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":566.07,"endTime":570.18,"body":"difficult and sometimes as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":570.18,"endTime":574.29,"body":"unclear as sexuality, it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":570.18,"endTime":574.29,"body":"important to understand how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.29,"endTime":576.96,"body":"those passages would have been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.29,"endTime":576.96,"body":"understood and applied to their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":576.96,"endTime":581.22,"body":"original audiences before we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":576.96,"endTime":581.22,"body":"apply them in our own situation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":581.46,"endTime":584.55,"body":"And there has been I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":581.46,"endTime":584.55,"body":"suggest a lot of, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":584.55,"endTime":588.54,"body":"to say sloppy exegesis or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":584.55,"endTime":588.54,"body":"exposition application, but it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":588.78,"endTime":592.23,"body":"not very subtle. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":588.78,"endTime":592.23,"body":"sometimes these passages have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":592.23,"endTime":596.64,"body":"been used as bludgeons. Right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":592.23,"endTime":596.64,"body":"And I think sometimes have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.64,"endTime":600.09,"body":"caused more pain than they have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.64,"endTime":600.09,"body":"encouraged people to control"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.09,"endTime":600.6,"body":"their behavior."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":600.6,"endTime":603.66,"body":"Actually, colloquially"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":600.6,"endTime":603.66,"body":"within the LGBTQ religious space"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":603.69,"endTime":606.36,"body":"there are certain Bible passages"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":603.69,"endTime":606.36,"body":"that are referred to as the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":606.36,"endTime":607.32,"body":"clobber passages."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":607.35,"endTime":609.72,"body":"Oh, well, I said"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":607.35,"endTime":609.72,"body":"bludgeon and you said clobber."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":609.93,"endTime":612.15,"body":"Yeah, so I assume we'll"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":609.93,"endTime":612.15,"body":"get into some of those today."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":612.18,"endTime":612.57,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":612.63,"endTime":615.57,"body":"One of one of them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":612.63,"endTime":615.57,"body":"When I made this realization"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":615.57,"endTime":618.75,"body":"about the scriptures and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":615.57,"endTime":618.75,"body":"homosexuality I like, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":618.75,"endTime":622.23,"body":"like this huge moment for me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":618.75,"endTime":622.23,"body":"but it's actually pretty obvious"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":622.26,"endTime":625.53,"body":"that within like, restored LDS"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":622.26,"endTime":625.53,"body":"scripture, Book of Mormon,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":625.53,"endTime":628.32,"body":"Doctrine and Covenants, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":625.53,"endTime":628.32,"body":"Pearl of Great Price it says"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":628.35,"endTime":631.8,"body":"nothing about it like it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":628.35,"endTime":631.8,"body":"even broach the topic. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":631.8,"endTime":634.71,"body":"really, what we're working from,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":631.8,"endTime":634.71,"body":"as we talk about homosexuality"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":634.71,"endTime":638.13,"body":"in the scriptures, are just the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":634.71,"endTime":638.13,"body":"New and Old Testament."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":638.0,"endTime":641.42,"body":"Right? The only thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":638.0,"endTime":641.42,"body":"that comes close in restoration"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":641.42,"endTime":645.89,"body":"scripture is Doctrine \u0026"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":641.42,"endTime":645.89,"body":"Covenants 59:6. And once again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":645.92,"endTime":649.46,"body":"you have to get in the original"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":645.92,"endTime":649.46,"body":"context, and this is subtle,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.79,"endTime":653.06,"body":"\"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.79,"endTime":653.06,"body":"thyself. Thou shalt not steal."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.06,"endTime":655.73,"body":"Thou shalt not commit adultery,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.06,"endTime":655.73,"body":"nor kill or do anything like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":655.76,"endTime":658.7,"body":"unto it.\" Years ago, I think,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":655.76,"endTime":658.7,"body":"Elder Packer before he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.7,"endTime":660.56,"body":"President Packer used that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.7,"endTime":660.56,"body":"passage, actually in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":660.56,"endTime":663.32,"body":"discussion of abortion, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":660.56,"endTime":663.32,"body":"he was saying don't kill or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":663.32,"endTime":666.56,"body":"anything like unto it. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":663.32,"endTime":666.56,"body":"have heard some people say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.59,"endTime":670.16,"body":"well, committing adultery,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.59,"endTime":670.16,"body":"breaking a covenant, for sexual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":670.16,"endTime":673.52,"body":"behavior, something like unto"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":670.16,"endTime":673.52,"body":"that would be any sexual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.52,"endTime":676.79,"body":"behavior outside of marriage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.52,"endTime":676.79,"body":"between a man and woman. That's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":676.79,"endTime":679.28,"body":"the only passage as I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":676.79,"endTime":679.28,"body":"looking through the scriptures"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":679.28,"endTime":682.19,"body":"this afternoon ahead of this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":679.28,"endTime":682.19,"body":"visit, that I could find in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.19,"endTime":686.57,"body":"restoration scripture that could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.19,"endTime":686.57,"body":"be taken to allude to sexual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":686.57,"endTime":689.66,"body":"behavior, which outside of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":686.57,"endTime":689.66,"body":"marriage, which would include"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.66,"endTime":690.62,"body":"homosexual behavior."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":690.0,"endTime":693.18,"body":"Yeah, I don't know why"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":690.0,"endTime":693.18,"body":"I find that so interesting. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":693.18,"endTime":697.71,"body":"guess it's because growing up, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":693.18,"endTime":697.71,"body":"assume that like, LDS scripture,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":697.8,"endTime":703.44,"body":"LDS doctrine would, would be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":697.8,"endTime":703.44,"body":"like very anti gay. And it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":703.44,"endTime":705.69,"body":"actually interesting because I,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":703.44,"endTime":705.69,"body":"like I said, I'd read the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":705.69,"endTime":708.27,"body":"standard works multiple times,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":705.69,"endTime":708.27,"body":"even as a child and all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":708.27,"endTime":710.58,"body":"throughout high school. But it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":708.27,"endTime":710.58,"body":"wasn't until a couple years ago"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":710.58,"endTime":714.54,"body":"when I like, really, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":710.58,"endTime":714.54,"body":"I've told the story before but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":714.54,"endTime":716.31,"body":"the first time I ever read the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":714.54,"endTime":716.31,"body":"Book of Mormon through the lens"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":716.31,"endTime":719.58,"body":"of my orientation, and not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":716.31,"endTime":719.58,"body":"trying to pretend I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":719.58,"endTime":722.79,"body":"straight, just like as a gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":719.58,"endTime":722.79,"body":"man, I read it, I was like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":722.79,"endTime":726.87,"body":"like, there's nothing that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":722.79,"endTime":726.87,"body":"like, attacking me here. Like it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":726.87,"endTime":731.31,"body":"all is building me and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":726.87,"endTime":731.31,"body":"everything I found was, was good"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":731.31,"endTime":735.57,"body":"and light and what didn't like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":731.31,"endTime":735.57,"body":"hurt my testimony as I thought"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":735.57,"endTime":736.35,"body":"it would have."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":736.36,"endTime":738.43,"body":"You know, there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":736.36,"endTime":738.43,"body":"possible historical or cultural"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":738.43,"endTime":741.79,"body":"reason for it. If you want me to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":738.43,"endTime":741.79,"body":"just venture a guess, and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":741.79,"endTime":744.37,"body":"were talking before this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":741.79,"endTime":744.37,"body":"episode, that I want to be very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":744.37,"endTime":747.31,"body":"careful to distinguish between"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":744.37,"endTime":747.31,"body":"what the Scriptures are clearly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":747.31,"endTime":750.55,"body":"teaching and what we think may"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":747.31,"endTime":750.55,"body":"be the reason."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":750.58,"endTime":751.66,"body":"Go ahead and venture a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":750.58,"endTime":751.66,"body":"guess."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":751.649,"endTime":754.049,"body":"Okay, so I know"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":751.649,"endTime":754.049,"body":"nothing about really the history"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":754.049,"endTime":757.769,"body":"of homosexuality. But I would"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":754.049,"endTime":757.769,"body":"assume from what I know about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":757.799,"endTime":760.589,"body":"broader history, that for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":757.799,"endTime":760.589,"body":"instance, Victorian England,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":760.649,"endTime":764.699,"body":"19th century into the 20th"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":760.649,"endTime":764.699,"body":"century, homosexuality, for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":764.699,"endTime":768.089,"body":"various cultural reasons was in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":764.699,"endTime":768.089,"body":"the corners, was hidden, the lov"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":768.089,"endTime":771.059,"body":"that can speak its name. But th"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":768.089,"endTime":771.059,"body":"ancient world, it was ver"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":771.059,"endTime":775.529,"body":"different. So the Hebrews, th"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":771.059,"endTime":775.529,"body":"Israelite tribes, later, th"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":775.529,"endTime":779.429,"body":"Jews, they were surrounded b"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":775.529,"endTime":779.429,"body":"people where homosexual behavio"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":779.429,"endTime":784.559,"body":"was much more patent open. I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":779.429,"endTime":784.559,"body":"fact, it was ritual, sometime"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":784.559,"endTime":787.649,"body":"it wasn't just behavior betwee"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":784.559,"endTime":787.649,"body":"individuals. It was sometime"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":787.649,"endTime":790.589,"body":"ritualized, temple prostitute"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":787.649,"endTime":790.589,"body":", that kind of thing. And so the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":790.589,"endTime":792.869,"body":"e was a reason I would sugges"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":790.589,"endTime":792.869,"body":", and we'll look at some of the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":792.869,"endTime":795.929,"body":"e passages in a moment, w"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":792.869,"endTime":795.929,"body":"y Leviticus and Deuteronomy wou"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":795.929,"endTime":798.929,"body":"d address it head on. Where"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":795.929,"endTime":798.929,"body":"s restoration scripture didn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":798.929,"endTime":801.359,"body":"s because it was so much more,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":798.929,"endTime":801.359,"body":"I won't say it's much mo"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":801.359,"endTime":804.719,"body":"e prevalent, but it was more o"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":801.359,"endTime":804.719,"body":"t in the open. Likewise, and I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":804.719,"endTime":807.749,"body":"o know a lot more about this"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":804.719,"endTime":807.749,"body":"n Greco Roman culture, homosexu"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":807.749,"endTime":813.629,"body":"l behaviors of various kinds, we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":807.749,"endTime":813.629,"body":"e much more around and open. A"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":813.629,"endTime":816.149,"body":"d so there was a reason for Pa"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":813.629,"endTime":816.149,"body":"l and Romans or First Corinthia"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":816.149,"endTime":820.229,"body":"s to address it. That's ju"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":816.149,"endTime":820.229,"body":"t a guess. But I would suggest"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":820.229,"endTime":823.229,"body":"hat the Hebrew Bible and the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":820.229,"endTime":823.229,"body":"reek New Testament address ce"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":823.229,"endTime":826.949,"body":"tain homosexual behaviors, be"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":823.229,"endTime":826.949,"body":"ause they were issues that were"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":826.979,"endTime":829.679,"body":"eing openly discussed in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":826.979,"endTime":829.679,"body":"heir surrounding cultures."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":829.859,"endTime":833.609,"body":"hereas at the time of Joseph"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":829.859,"endTime":833.609,"body":"mith, Doctrine and Covenants, I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":833.609,"endTime":836.519,"body":"on't know about Book of Mormon"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":833.609,"endTime":836.519,"body":"eople's, but maybe it's the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":836.519,"endTime":839.819,"body":"ame among the nephites and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":836.519,"endTime":839.819,"body":"amanites. That wasn't something"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":840.029,"endTime":844.109,"body":"hat was openly discussed and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":840.029,"endTime":844.109,"body":"xhibited. And so there wasn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":844.109,"endTime":846.899,"body":"s much reason to talk about it."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":844.109,"endTime":846.899,"body":"ust a guess. Just a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":847.38,"endTime":849.18,"body":"It's funny, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":847.38,"endTime":849.18,"body":"because of that, I feel like it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":849.24,"endTime":853.86,"body":"has been very freeing for me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":849.24,"endTime":853.86,"body":"because sometimes when I read"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":853.86,"endTime":856.65,"body":"the Bible, I kind of get hung up"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":853.86,"endTime":856.65,"body":"on those passages that like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":856.83,"endTime":860.73,"body":"confused me, or making me like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":856.83,"endTime":860.73,"body":"second guess my life or who I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":860.73,"endTime":863.79,"body":"am, and kind of make me feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":860.73,"endTime":863.79,"body":"excluded. But within the Book of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":863.79,"endTime":867.72,"body":"Mormon, which is my favorite"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":863.79,"endTime":867.72,"body":"scriptural text, I love it,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":867.9,"endTime":870.78,"body":"because it doesn't say anything"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":867.9,"endTime":870.78,"body":"specifically, or like, I can't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":870.78,"endTime":874.02,"body":"misinterpret anything like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":870.78,"endTime":874.02,"body":"don't have to worry about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":874.08,"endTime":878.61,"body":"historical or cultural aspects"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":874.08,"endTime":878.61,"body":"of homosexuality in the ancient"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":878.61,"endTime":881.64,"body":"Americas, like, all of that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":878.61,"endTime":881.64,"body":"not there. So I can just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":881.7,"endTime":885.75,"body":"accept the gospel of Christ as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":881.7,"endTime":885.75,"body":"the gospel of Christ for me, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":885.75,"endTime":886.74,"body":"know, right, that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":886.92,"endTime":887.73,"body":"Perfect sense."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":888.33,"endTime":890.58,"body":"So, Eric, take us to the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":888.33,"endTime":890.58,"body":"Old Testament. What's going on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":890.58,"endTime":890.79,"body":"there?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":890.84,"endTime":896.03,"body":"All right. Well, let me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":890.84,"endTime":896.03,"body":"just mention, I actually took a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.03,"endTime":897.71,"body":"few moments. I don't always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.03,"endTime":897.71,"body":"prepare for these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":897.71,"endTime":899.84,"body":"things as well as I should but I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":897.71,"endTime":899.84,"body":"took some time this afternoon."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.84,"endTime":902.27,"body":"Just To go over the standard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.84,"endTime":902.27,"body":"passages, which I now know in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":902.27,"endTime":905.99,"body":"your community are the clobber"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":902.27,"endTime":905.99,"body":"passages. So starting with"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":906.02,"endTime":910.43,"body":"5 this is a Lot and"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":906.02,"endTime":910.43,"body":"the angels and the people of"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":910.43,"endTime":915.11,"body":"Sodom, right? I mean, Sodom has"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":910.43,"endTime":915.11,"body":"historically given its name to"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":915.11,"endTime":918.44,"body":"certain kinds of homosexual"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":915.11,"endTime":918.44,"body":"behavior. There are allusions to"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":918.44,"endTime":922.25,"body":"that incident in Isaiah and of"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":918.44,"endTime":922.25,"body":"course, Nephi quotes Isaiah, so"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":922.25,"endTime":926.3,"body":"that does show up in 2 Nephi"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":922.25,"endTime":926.3,"body":"13:9. In Jude, for instance, he"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":926.3,"endTime":929.42,"body":"refers the sin of Sodom. What's"},{"speaker":"Genesis 19","startTime":926.3,"endTime":929.42,"body":"really interesting about that"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":929.42,"endTime":933.86,"body":"5 does"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":929.42,"endTime":933.86,"body":"talk about the men of Sodom,"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":934.13,"endTime":936.56,"body":"surrounding Lot's house and"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":934.13,"endTime":936.56,"body":"saying, bring out these guests"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":936.56,"endTime":939.26,"body":"that we may know them, which is"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":936.56,"endTime":939.26,"body":"a euphemism for sexual behavior,"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":939.86,"endTime":943.7,"body":"that was not seen as the"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":939.86,"endTime":943.7,"body":"egregious sin of Sodom that led"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":943.7,"endTime":947.42,"body":"to its destruction. In fact,"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":943.7,"endTime":947.42,"body":"what's very interesting is you"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":947.42,"endTime":950.21,"body":"look at how the rabbi's talked"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":947.42,"endTime":950.21,"body":"about this, they talked about"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":950.21,"endTime":954.02,"body":"the sins of inhospitality and"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":950.21,"endTime":954.02,"body":"lack of charity among the"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":954.02,"endTime":958.04,"body":"Sodomites. Hospitality is a big"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":954.02,"endTime":958.04,"body":"thing in the ancient world,"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":958.04,"endTime":960.8,"body":"whether you're talking about the"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":958.04,"endTime":960.8,"body":"Semitic world, the Hebrews or in"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":960.8,"endTime":962.84,"body":"Greco Roman culture. If you've"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":960.8,"endTime":962.84,"body":"read the Iliad and the Odyssey,"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":962.84,"endTime":965.03,"body":"particularly the Odyssey, you"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":962.84,"endTime":965.03,"body":"know, hospitality was a huge"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":965.03,"endTime":968.75,"body":"deal. And because Lot had taken"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":965.03,"endTime":968.75,"body":"these angels into his home and"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":968.75,"endTime":972.11,"body":"provide them hospitality, he had"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":968.75,"endTime":972.11,"body":"to protect them, and the people"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":972.11,"endTime":975.8,"body":"of Sodom were abusing that. But"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":972.11,"endTime":975.8,"body":"there are actual references for"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":975.8,"endTime":978.92,"body":"instance, in Ezekiel, Ezekial"},{"speaker":"passage, even though 19","startTime":975.8,"endTime":978.92,"body":"refers to this I think it's in"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":979.28,"endTime":984.56,"body":"49 and 50. He talks about how"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":979.28,"endTime":984.56,"body":"the people of Sodom did not take"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":984.56,"endTime":988.76,"body":"care of the poor, how they"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":984.56,"endTime":988.76,"body":"starve the widows and how they"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":988.76,"endTime":993.2,"body":"were unkind to each other. So it"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":988.76,"endTime":993.2,"body":"was a much larger issue, not"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":993.2,"endTime":996.44,"body":"just that one particular thing"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":993.2,"endTime":996.44,"body":"at the, at the culmination when"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":996.44,"endTime":999.2,"body":"it says bring out those men,"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":996.44,"endTime":999.2,"body":"your guests betray the"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":999.2,"endTime":1001.69,"body":"hospitality that you've extended"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":999.2,"endTime":1001.69,"body":"them so that we may quote"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1001.69,"endTime":1005.5,"body":"unquote know them. Another way"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1001.69,"endTime":1005.5,"body":"that sometimes this is looked at"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1005.53,"endTime":1008.44,"body":"is not so much the particular"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1005.53,"endTime":1008.44,"body":"kind of sexual behavior they"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1008.44,"endTime":1010.06,"body":"were threatening, but the fact"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1008.44,"endTime":1010.06,"body":"that they were threatening"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1010.09,"endTime":1014.71,"body":"sexual violence. In fact, if you"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1010.09,"endTime":1014.71,"body":"look a passage in in Judges 19,"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1014.71,"endTime":1017.2,"body":"it's the story about the Levite"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1014.71,"endTime":1017.2,"body":"and his concubines where his"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1017.2,"endTime":1020.41,"body":"concubine is raped and and left"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1017.2,"endTime":1020.41,"body":"for dead and he cuts her up and"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1020.41,"endTime":1024.04,"body":"sends her all over. But, but the"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1020.41,"endTime":1024.04,"body":"real problem there, the reason"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1024.04,"endTime":1027.7,"body":"the Benjamites end up getting"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1024.04,"endTime":1027.7,"body":"clobbered in war is because of"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1027.7,"endTime":1030.76,"body":"sexual violence. So even if"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1027.7,"endTime":1030.76,"body":"you're to look at the sin of"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1030.76,"endTime":1034.45,"body":"Sodom as a sexual sin, in this"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1030.76,"endTime":1034.45,"body":"case, same sex behavior, it was"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1034.45,"endTime":1037.12,"body":"sexual violence and rape, that"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1034.45,"endTime":1037.12,"body":"really seems to been the thing"},{"speaker":"16","startTime":1037.12,"endTime":1038.11,"body":"that pushed it over the edge."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1038.11,"endTime":1039.31,"body":"This wasn't consensual sex."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1039.31,"endTime":1042.76,"body":"Right. So that one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1039.31,"endTime":1042.76,"body":"particular passage obviously is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1042.76,"endTime":1044.98,"body":"one that we know and it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1042.76,"endTime":1044.98,"body":"entered legal codes right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.98,"endTime":1048.76,"body":"sodomy, anything besides typical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.98,"endTime":1048.76,"body":"straight heterosexual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.76,"endTime":1049.33,"body":"intercourse."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1049.33,"endTime":1051.28,"body":"So you're saying that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1049.33,"endTime":1051.28,"body":"sodomy should be referred to as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1051.31,"endTime":1052.18,"body":"inhospitality."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.0,"endTime":1055.42,"body":"Inhospitality, not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.0,"endTime":1055.42,"body":"caring for the poor or but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1055.42,"endTime":1058.21,"body":"sexual violence, ie rape should"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1055.42,"endTime":1058.21,"body":"certainly be considered that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1059.05,"endTime":1063.22,"body":"Now the passages which of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1059.05,"endTime":1063.22,"body":"course, particularly for for gay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.22,"endTime":1067.87,"body":"men are hard, I guess bludgeon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.22,"endTime":1067.87,"body":"passages are Leviticus 18:22 and"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1067.87,"endTime":1072.16,"body":"13 where there is direct"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1067.87,"endTime":1072.16,"body":"discussion about not lying with"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1072.16,"endTime":1076.27,"body":"a man as you lie with a woman."},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1072.16,"endTime":1076.27,"body":"And I certainly think the"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1076.27,"endTime":1079.24,"body":"application of that is as an"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1076.27,"endTime":1079.24,"body":"active faithful latte-day saint"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1079.24,"endTime":1081.79,"body":"I believe any sexual behavior"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1079.24,"endTime":1081.79,"body":"outside of the bonds of"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1081.79,"endTime":1084.82,"body":"sacramental marriage, I, I've"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1081.79,"endTime":1084.82,"body":"decided to use that term now in"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1084.82,"endTime":1087.43,"body":"the age of marriage equality, or"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1084.82,"endTime":1087.43,"body":"same sex marriage, you can have"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1087.43,"endTime":1089.74,"body":"whatever legal or civil"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1087.43,"endTime":1089.74,"body":"contracts you want, but"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1089.74,"endTime":1092.71,"body":"sacramental marriage, the way we"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1089.74,"endTime":1092.71,"body":"look at it, not just the legal"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1092.71,"endTime":1095.38,"body":"marriage, but we call a"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1092.71,"endTime":1095.38,"body":"marriage, in harmony with the"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1095.38,"endTime":1098.71,"body":"law of the Lord. Any sexual"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1095.38,"endTime":1098.71,"body":"behavior outside of sacramental"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1098.71,"endTime":1101.68,"body":"marriage is wrong. And so that"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1098.71,"endTime":1101.68,"body":"would certainly be a legitimate"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1101.71,"endTime":1105.34,"body":"application or exposition of"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1101.71,"endTime":1105.34,"body":"those two passages. What's"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1105.34,"endTime":1108.34,"body":"really interesting, particularly"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1105.34,"endTime":1108.34,"body":"in chapter 18, it's part of"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1108.34,"endTime":1111.52,"body":"Leviticus, section of Leviticus"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1108.34,"endTime":1111.52,"body":"sometimes called the holiness"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1111.52,"endTime":1115.51,"body":"code. It's about setting apart"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1111.52,"endTime":1115.51,"body":"the people of God as separate"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1115.51,"endTime":1118.36,"body":"and distinct from the people who"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1115.51,"endTime":1118.36,"body":"were in the land. The land is"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1118.36,"endTime":1121.06,"body":"holiest, we've got to get rid of"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1118.36,"endTime":1121.06,"body":"the Canaanites, and we can't do"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1121.09,"endTime":1124.3,"body":"anything like they were doing."},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1121.09,"endTime":1124.3,"body":"Now, there are different ways"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1124.3,"endTime":1126.58,"body":"that particularly Protestant"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1124.3,"endTime":1126.58,"body":"scholars have tried to"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1126.58,"endTime":1129.22,"body":"understand this, and perhaps"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1126.58,"endTime":1129.22,"body":"reconcile this to, you know,"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1129.25,"endTime":1133.57,"body":"more inclusive, scriptural view."},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1129.25,"endTime":1133.57,"body":"They will point out that most of"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1133.57,"endTime":1136.3,"body":"what you get in chapter 18, is"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1133.57,"endTime":1136.3,"body":"actually about incest. It's the"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1136.3,"endTime":1139.36,"body":"different kinds of sexual"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1136.3,"endTime":1139.36,"body":"behavior that you cannot have"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1139.36,"endTime":1143.11,"body":"with a man or woman within your"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1139.36,"endTime":1143.11,"body":"family circles. I think that's"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1143.11,"endTime":1145.6,"body":"actually straining at a gnat and"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1143.11,"endTime":1145.6,"body":"swallowing a camel, I think"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1145.6,"endTime":1147.91,"body":"that's actually trying to"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1145.6,"endTime":1147.91,"body":"rationalize a little bit too"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1147.91,"endTime":1151.33,"body":"much, because the very next"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1147.91,"endTime":1151.33,"body":"verse is about beastiality and"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1151.36,"endTime":1154.33,"body":"you don't see, you know, that"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1151.36,"endTime":1154.33,"body":"animal is being a member of your"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1154.33,"endTime":1158.29,"body":"family. But I do think, as I was"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1154.33,"endTime":1158.29,"body":"mentioning earlier, this was"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1158.29,"endTime":1160.9,"body":"something that was really in the"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1158.29,"endTime":1160.9,"body":"forefront. You know, we assumed"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1160.9,"endTime":1163.93,"body":"that Moses was at least the"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1160.9,"endTime":1163.93,"body":"source or the authority behind"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1163.93,"endTime":1166.15,"body":"these texts, whoever actually"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1163.93,"endTime":1166.15,"body":"wrote the books attributed to"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1166.15,"endTime":1170.05,"body":"him. But this was something that"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1166.15,"endTime":1170.05,"body":"Moses and I would say the Lord"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1170.05,"endTime":1173.2,"body":"really want the people of Israel"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1170.05,"endTime":1173.2,"body":"to do to distinguish themselves"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1173.2,"endTime":1176.62,"body":"from all the other peoples who"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1173.2,"endTime":1176.62,"body":"were not holy who were not set"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1176.62,"endTime":1181.99,"body":"apart to service. And so to just"},{"speaker":"20","startTime":1176.62,"endTime":1181.99,"body":"take those two verses out, 18:22"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1181.99,"endTime":1185.89,"body":"13, that talk about same"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1181.99,"endTime":1185.89,"body":"sex behavior, you should be"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1185.89,"endTime":1189.64,"body":"giving equal opportunity to"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1185.89,"endTime":1189.64,"body":"talking about not marrying a"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1189.64,"endTime":1193.24,"body":"close relation. But in fact,"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1189.64,"endTime":1193.24,"body":"just a few verses before, if I"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1193.24,"endTime":1196.81,"body":"can be this direct, there's a"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1193.24,"endTime":1196.81,"body":"discussion about having normal"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1196.81,"endTime":1199.27,"body":"straight, heterosexual"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1196.81,"endTime":1199.27,"body":"intercourse during a woman's"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1199.27,"endTime":1203.59,"body":"period. And you know, you don't"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1199.27,"endTime":1203.59,"body":"have people talking at length"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1203.59,"endTime":1208.09,"body":"and passing legislation based"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1203.59,"endTime":1208.09,"body":"upon, you know, our Jewish"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1208.09,"endTime":1210.07,"body":"friends, you know, they're"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1208.09,"endTime":1210.07,"body":"Orthodox Jews, they actually"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1210.07,"endTime":1213.01,"body":"don't do it during that period."},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1210.07,"endTime":1213.01,"body":"But I think a lot of Christians"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1213.01,"endTime":1216.19,"body":"don't pay any attention to that"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1213.01,"endTime":1216.19,"body":"kind of thing. So those are the"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1216.19,"endTime":1219.76,"body":"bludgeon passages of the Old"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1216.19,"endTime":1219.76,"body":"Testament, but except for later"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1219.76,"endTime":1223.18,"body":"prophets like Zeke and Isaiah,"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1219.76,"endTime":1223.18,"body":"alluding to the sin of Sodom,"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1223.63,"endTime":1226.6,"body":"and Ezekiel actually making that"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1223.63,"endTime":1226.6,"body":"being uncharitable and not"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1226.6,"endTime":1230.95,"body":"necessarily sexually violent."},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1226.6,"endTime":1230.95,"body":"The next set of passages are all"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1230.98,"endTime":1232.87,"body":"attributed to our friend Brother"},{"speaker":"and 20","startTime":1230.98,"endTime":1232.87,"body":"Paul, right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1233.83,"endTime":1235.33,"body":"What did Jesus say about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1233.83,"endTime":1235.33,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1235.63,"endTime":1237.61,"body":"I'm going to get"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1235.63,"endTime":1237.61,"body":"to him last because Jesus trumps"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1237.61,"endTime":1240.7,"body":"everyone, right? So, in fact, I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1237.61,"endTime":1240.7,"body":"have a I have a stabbing it's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1240.7,"endTime":1243.67,"body":"not a joke. It's I'm deadly"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1240.7,"endTime":1243.67,"body":"serious in my classes. The"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1243.67,"endTime":1247.0,"body":"answer is always Jesus. In fact,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1243.67,"endTime":1247.0,"body":"when I give pop quizzes, reading"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1247.0,"endTime":1248.86,"body":"quizzes, I always tell my"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1247.0,"endTime":1248.86,"body":"students if you don't know the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1248.86,"endTime":1250.75,"body":"answer that question write down"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1248.86,"endTime":1250.75,"body":"Jesus and you'll get at least"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1250.75,"endTime":1253.54,"body":"half credit. Jesus is always the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1250.75,"endTime":1253.54,"body":"answer. So let's, we'll come"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1253.54,"endTime":1256.99,"body":"back to that in a moment. But"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1253.54,"endTime":1256.99,"body":"the bludgeon passages, what did"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1256.99,"endTime":1260.92,"body":"you call them? Clobber passages?"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1256.99,"endTime":1260.92,"body":"The clobber passages are Romans"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1260.92,"endTime":1265.9,"body":"9, and 1"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1260.92,"endTime":1265.9,"body":"Timothy 1:10. And this talks"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1265.93,"endTime":1269.44,"body":"about people who are burning in"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1265.93,"endTime":1269.44,"body":"their lust to each other, doing"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1269.44,"endTime":1272.86,"body":"things which were unseemly to"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1269.44,"endTime":1272.86,"body":"use the King James Version. The"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1272.86,"endTime":1275.23,"body":"way Protestant exegesis is"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1272.86,"endTime":1275.23,"body":"sometimes tried to explain,"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1275.65,"endTime":1279.76,"body":"explain this as it gets overly"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1275.65,"endTime":1279.76,"body":"exegetical and looks at the"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1279.76,"endTime":1284.11,"body":"particular words that are used."},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1279.76,"endTime":1284.11,"body":"So for instance, in Romans 1,"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1284.11,"endTime":1287.59,"body":"there's a discussion about those"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1284.11,"endTime":1287.59,"body":"who are the King James term is"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1287.62,"endTime":1291.4,"body":"unfortunate. It's effeminate,"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1287.62,"endTime":1291.4,"body":"but it's actually in Greek, it's"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1291.61,"endTime":1297.58,"body":"mollacoy, which means soft. But"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1291.61,"endTime":1297.58,"body":"in that context, but it's not"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1297.58,"endTime":1300.79,"body":"about mannerisms. So that's why"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1297.58,"endTime":1300.79,"body":"effeminate is the wrong term"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1300.79,"endTime":1304.66,"body":"there. It is about, it's"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1300.79,"endTime":1304.66,"body":"probably in a sexual context"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1304.66,"endTime":1308.62,"body":"about passive sexual behavior."},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1304.66,"endTime":1308.62,"body":"And then there's also a term"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1308.65,"endTime":1311.44,"body":"\"arsenacotoy\", which means men"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1308.65,"endTime":1311.44,"body":"lying with men, which is"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1311.44,"endTime":1314.2,"body":"probably talking about active"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1311.44,"endTime":1314.2,"body":"behavior. And I have seen"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1314.2,"endTime":1317.17,"body":"Protestant exigeets, bending"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1314.2,"endTime":1317.17,"body":"over backwards trying to say"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1317.17,"endTime":1320.59,"body":"particular sexual behaviors"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1317.17,"endTime":1320.59,"body":"might be forbidden, but not"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1320.59,"endTime":1324.25,"body":"homosexual behavior itself. You"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1320.59,"endTime":1324.25,"body":"know, and maybe something else"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1324.25,"endTime":1327.85,"body":"is, is appropriate. But I think"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1324.25,"endTime":1327.85,"body":"the reason Paul's talking about"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1327.85,"endTime":1332.74,"body":"it is both Rome and Corinth were"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1327.85,"endTime":1332.74,"body":"huge urban centers, with lots of"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1332.74,"endTime":1337.0,"body":"decadence. And homosexual"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1332.74,"endTime":1337.0,"body":"behavior was only one of a"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1337.0,"endTime":1339.73,"body":"number of what we would call"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1337.0,"endTime":1339.73,"body":"sinful behaviors in those"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1339.73,"endTime":1343.15,"body":"cities. So those are probably"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1339.73,"endTime":1343.15,"body":"why Paul was concerned about"},{"speaker":"1:27, 1 Corinthians 6","startTime":1343.15,"endTime":1343.42,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1343.66,"endTime":1347.2,"body":"Well, and I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1343.66,"endTime":1347.2,"body":"what that scripture for me, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1347.2,"endTime":1350.08,"body":"also people, people don't even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1347.2,"endTime":1350.08,"body":"talk about the the part where it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1350.08,"endTime":1353.44,"body":"says they burned in lust, one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1350.08,"endTime":1353.44,"body":"with another. And I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1353.68,"endTime":1357.31,"body":"that even reminds me of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1353.68,"endTime":1357.31,"body":"Sermon on the Mount. When when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1357.31,"endTime":1360.43,"body":"Christ is like, Don't commit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1357.31,"endTime":1360.43,"body":"adultery in your heart, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1360.43,"endTime":1363.82,"body":"know, like, like burning with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1360.43,"endTime":1363.82,"body":"lust has never been godly and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1363.82,"endTime":1367.54,"body":"being consumed by sex and carnal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1363.82,"endTime":1367.54,"body":"desires, and anything like that."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1367.54,"endTime":1370.39,"body":"And you know, to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1367.54,"endTime":1370.39,"body":"just come out in the open here"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1370.39,"endTime":1374.59,"body":"about, quote, unquote, approved"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1370.39,"endTime":1374.59,"body":"sexual behavior. I will often"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1374.62,"endTime":1377.62,"body":"tell people, my wife's a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1374.62,"endTime":1377.62,"body":"therapist, she deals with all"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1377.62,"endTime":1382.24,"body":"kinds of things. Consent still"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1377.62,"endTime":1382.24,"body":"must happen in marriage. It is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1382.24,"endTime":1384.97,"body":"wrong for a man to impose"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1382.24,"endTime":1384.97,"body":"himself on his wife if she's not"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1384.97,"endTime":1392.92,"body":"willing to or vice versa. And if"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1384.97,"endTime":1392.92,"body":"one makes his partner, an object"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1392.92,"endTime":1396.85,"body":"objectifies his wife, that I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1392.92,"endTime":1396.85,"body":"would call more or lustful than"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1396.85,"endTime":1400.15,"body":"loving. Yeah, so you know, we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1396.85,"endTime":1400.15,"body":"can take and we're gonna come"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1400.15,"endTime":1403.03,"body":"back to the words of Jesus in a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1400.15,"endTime":1403.03,"body":"moment, I brought a book with"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1403.03,"endTime":1407.32,"body":"me, which is an attempt to try"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1403.03,"endTime":1407.32,"body":"to understand both the clobber"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1407.32,"endTime":1409.48,"body":"passages in the Old Testament"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1407.32,"endTime":1409.48,"body":"and in the New Testament."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1410.11,"endTime":1411.94,"body":"We've never had a guest"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1410.11,"endTime":1411.94,"body":"bring so many books."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1412.17,"endTime":1415.95,"body":"Sorry. And I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1412.17,"endTime":1415.95,"body":"didn't actually get it for the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1416.01,"endTime":1418.59,"body":"purpose of our discussion today."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1416.01,"endTime":1418.59,"body":"It's a man named William J."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1418.59,"endTime":1421.68,"body":"Webb. He's an evangelical"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1418.59,"endTime":1421.68,"body":"scholar, \"Slaves, Women, and"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1421.68,"endTime":1424.53,"body":"Exploring the"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1421.68,"endTime":1424.53,"body":"Hermeneutics of Cultural"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1424.53,"endTime":1429.24,"body":"Analysis\". Now, that's a really"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1424.53,"endTime":1429.24,"body":"big term I've got on, I have to"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1429.24,"endTime":1432.87,"body":"unpack the terms. Hermeneutics"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1429.24,"endTime":1432.87,"body":"is what we call the science and"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1432.87,"endTime":1436.29,"body":"art of interpretation. So"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1432.87,"endTime":1436.29,"body":"exegesis and exposition are both"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1436.29,"endTime":1439.17,"body":"subsets of that okay, how do we"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1436.29,"endTime":1439.17,"body":"interpret understand scripture?"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1439.38,"endTime":1442.17,"body":"Exegesis is in its original"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1439.38,"endTime":1442.17,"body":"context to its original"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1442.17,"endTime":1445.17,"body":"audience, exposition or"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1442.17,"endTime":1445.17,"body":"application is to us as a"},{"speaker":"Homosexuals","startTime":1445.17,"endTime":1446.7,"body":"secondary or modern audience."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1446.72,"endTime":1448.67,"body":"So at the end of this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1446.72,"endTime":1448.67,"body":"podcast, remember there's a quiz"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1448.67,"endTime":1451.49,"body":"and the question will be what is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1448.67,"endTime":1451.49,"body":"exegesis? The answer will be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1451.52,"endTime":1452.21,"body":"Jesus."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1454.64,"endTime":1456.59,"body":"Anyway, the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1454.64,"endTime":1456.59,"body":"reason this book came to my"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1456.59,"endTime":1459.86,"body":"attention is I taught a seminar"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1456.59,"endTime":1459.86,"body":"I used to direct the Ancient and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1459.86,"endTime":1461.9,"body":"Near East Studies program here"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1459.86,"endTime":1461.9,"body":"at the Kennedy Center and I did"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1461.9,"endTime":1465.11,"body":"a seminar on women in the Bible"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1461.9,"endTime":1465.11,"body":"so I got it mostly for feminist"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1465.11,"endTime":1468.32,"body":"hermeneutics and and gender"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1465.11,"endTime":1468.32,"body":"theory, as we were trying to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1468.32,"endTime":1472.4,"body":"unpack, because we can have"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1468.32,"endTime":1472.4,"body":"problem passages with how women"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1472.4,"endTime":1475.04,"body":"are treated in the Old Testament"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1472.4,"endTime":1475.04,"body":"or in the ???? testament for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1475.04,"endTime":1478.64,"body":"that moment, or in the modern"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1475.04,"endTime":1478.64,"body":"age. Slavery is kind of an"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1478.64,"endTime":1481.16,"body":"interesting thing as well,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1478.64,"endTime":1481.16,"body":"because the Old Testament"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1481.16,"endTime":1484.28,"body":"condones slavery. And Paul"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1481.16,"endTime":1484.28,"body":"actually says, if you're a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1484.28,"endTime":1487.52,"body":"slave, don't, don't escape it"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1484.28,"endTime":1487.52,"body":"just be a good slave. And"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1487.52,"endTime":1490.73,"body":"actually, in the antebellum"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1487.52,"endTime":1490.73,"body":"south, some people use the Bible"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1490.73,"endTime":1495.05,"body":"to justify African slavery in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1490.73,"endTime":1495.05,"body":"the American South. So I'd"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1495.05,"endTime":1497.93,"body":"gotten this book for that class"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1495.05,"endTime":1497.93,"body":"on women in the Bible, that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1497.93,"endTime":1502.7,"body":"seminar, but what Webb does is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1497.93,"endTime":1502.7,"body":"he looks at these three issues,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1502.7,"endTime":1507.35,"body":"slavery, gender issues, and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1502.7,"endTime":1507.35,"body":"issues of homosexuality. And he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1507.35,"endTime":1512.21,"body":"tries to see how, as a believing"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1507.35,"endTime":1512.21,"body":"Christian, he and his readers"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1512.24,"endTime":1516.35,"body":"can perhaps understand how we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1512.24,"endTime":1516.35,"body":"should read those passages now."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1516.95,"endTime":1520.79,"body":"Now, I will go ahead and spoiler"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1516.95,"endTime":1520.79,"body":"alert, he comes down very"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1520.79,"endTime":1524.3,"body":"traditionally at the end, that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1520.79,"endTime":1524.3,"body":"homosexuality is not wrong, but"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1524.3,"endTime":1528.29,"body":"homosexual behavior is so he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1524.3,"endTime":1528.29,"body":"holds the line on that. But he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1528.29,"endTime":1532.31,"body":"points out that slavery is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1528.29,"endTime":1532.31,"body":"clearly wrong. And treating"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1532.31,"endTime":1537.56,"body":"women unequally is wrong. And he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1532.31,"endTime":1537.56,"body":"suggests, he posits this model"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1537.56,"endTime":1541.16,"body":"he calls a redemptive movement"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1537.56,"endTime":1541.16,"body":"hermeneutic. Okay, hermeneutic"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1541.16,"endTime":1544.43,"body":"is interpretive strategy,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1541.16,"endTime":1544.43,"body":"redemption, we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1544.43,"endTime":1548.42,"body":"redeem us make ourselves better."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1544.43,"endTime":1548.42,"body":"It's a movement because he sees"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1548.42,"endTime":1554.36,"body":"God speaking to people, in fact,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1548.42,"endTime":1554.36,"body":"think of Alma 30, is it 29 or"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1554.36,"endTime":1559.31,"body":"30? 29, where Alma wants to be"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1554.36,"endTime":1559.31,"body":"an angel and speak with... And"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1559.31,"endTime":1561.74,"body":"he says, you know, \"God speaks"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1559.31,"endTime":1561.74,"body":"to all people according their"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1561.74,"endTime":1565.07,"body":"own language, what part of his"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1561.74,"endTime":1565.07,"body":"word he feels in his wisdom"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1565.07,"endTime":1570.08,"body":"they're ready to have.\" And so"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1565.07,"endTime":1570.08,"body":"what Webb suggests is that early"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1570.08,"endTime":1574.34,"body":"in Israelite history, okay,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1570.08,"endTime":1574.34,"body":"because of the culture in which"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1574.34,"endTime":1579.59,"body":"they lived, women and slaves"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1574.34,"endTime":1579.59,"body":"play different roles. What he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1579.59,"endTime":1582.71,"body":"actually points out, though, is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1579.59,"endTime":1582.71,"body":"that women in many ways, were"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1582.71,"endTime":1585.08,"body":"protected more in Israelite law"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1582.71,"endTime":1585.08,"body":"than they were in some"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1585.08,"endTime":1588.62,"body":"surrounding cultures. And"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1585.08,"endTime":1588.62,"body":"slavery was actually very"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1588.77,"endTime":1592.13,"body":"regulated. So you couldn't beat"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1588.77,"endTime":1592.13,"body":"your slave, you know, there are"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1592.13,"endTime":1594.53,"body":"various kinds of things. And"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1592.13,"endTime":1594.53,"body":"then what he says is that you"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1594.53,"endTime":1597.71,"body":"move into the New Testament, and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1594.53,"endTime":1597.71,"body":"women are able to prophesy and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1597.71,"endTime":1600.35,"body":"speak in tongues, and they"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1597.71,"endTime":1600.35,"body":"follow Jesus. And so we're"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1600.35,"endTime":1605.24,"body":"seeing a development there. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1600.35,"endTime":1605.24,"body":"there is slavery. But Paul says,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1605.24,"endTime":1607.79,"body":"I would in Philemon, for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1605.24,"endTime":1607.79,"body":"instance, if you really want to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1607.79,"endTime":1611.06,"body":"do me a favor, you let him go."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1607.79,"endTime":1611.06,"body":"And the way I describe this in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1611.06,"endTime":1614.6,"body":"terms of gender issues, is I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1611.06,"endTime":1614.6,"body":"tell my students, that, that God"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1614.6,"endTime":1617.27,"body":"put Israelite women in a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1614.6,"endTime":1617.27,"body":"slightly more protected position"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1617.27,"endTime":1620.87,"body":"than say Canaanite women were."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1617.27,"endTime":1620.87,"body":"And then Jesus was very"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1620.87,"endTime":1624.35,"body":"liberating. And although there"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1620.87,"endTime":1624.35,"body":"are a couple difficult passages"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1624.35,"endTime":1627.23,"body":"in Paul, about gender issues,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1624.35,"endTime":1627.23,"body":"like there are about sexuality"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1627.23,"endTime":1630.98,"body":"issues, Paul still is giving"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1627.23,"endTime":1630.98,"body":"women a role in the Christian"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1630.98,"endTime":1633.32,"body":"movement they hadn't had before."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1630.98,"endTime":1633.32,"body":"And so I describe it as you're"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1633.32,"endTime":1636.44,"body":"moving the ball down the line,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1633.32,"endTime":1636.44,"body":"you're moving down the field."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1636.83,"endTime":1639.89,"body":"And so the question is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1636.83,"endTime":1639.89,"body":"Christians, particularly at the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1639.89,"endTime":1643.1,"body":"time of Joseph Smith, they took"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1639.89,"endTime":1643.1,"body":"Paul's position, he'd moved the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1643.1,"endTime":1645.83,"body":"ball down to say, the 20 yard"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1643.1,"endTime":1645.83,"body":"line, and they assume that's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1645.83,"endTime":1648.8,"body":"what has to be fixed. But I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1645.83,"endTime":1648.8,"body":"would say Joseph Smith turning"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1648.8,"endTime":1651.44,"body":"the key on behalf of the women"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1648.8,"endTime":1651.44,"body":"in Nauvoo Relief Society he's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1651.44,"endTime":1654.2,"body":"actually advancing the ball"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1651.44,"endTime":1654.2,"body":"farther. So that's what Webb"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1654.2,"endTime":1657.29,"body":"means by redemptive movement"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1654.2,"endTime":1657.29,"body":"hermeneutic. But what he points"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1657.29,"endTime":1660.8,"body":"out is that in the case of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1657.29,"endTime":1660.8,"body":"slavery and gender issues, the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1660.8,"endTime":1665.06,"body":"rules first for Israel, and then"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1660.8,"endTime":1665.06,"body":"for the church, were actually"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1665.06,"endTime":1670.73,"body":"more empowering and liberating."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1665.06,"endTime":1670.73,"body":"There were more rules there. But"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1670.73,"endTime":1674.36,"body":"what you find out with the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1670.73,"endTime":1674.36,"body":"sexual behavior is that the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1674.36,"endTime":1677.57,"body":"Israelites and the Christians"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1674.36,"endTime":1677.57,"body":"actually had higher standards"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1677.6,"endTime":1680.12,"body":"than the surrounding world. Does"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1677.6,"endTime":1680.12,"body":"that make sense? So women were"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1680.12,"endTime":1683.99,"body":"more protected and given more"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1680.12,"endTime":1683.99,"body":"rights in Christianity, but the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1683.99,"endTime":1687.56,"body":"rules on sexual behavior were"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1683.99,"endTime":1687.56,"body":"firmer than those around them."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1687.89,"endTime":1691.25,"body":"So, so web actually does come"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1687.89,"endTime":1691.25,"body":"out. But he makes some"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1691.25,"endTime":1694.7,"body":"interesting points, though. He"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1691.25,"endTime":1694.7,"body":"calls out Christian hypocrisy,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1695.12,"endTime":1699.08,"body":"because he says, yes, we can say"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1695.12,"endTime":1699.08,"body":"that marriage between a man and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1699.08,"endTime":1701.84,"body":"a woman and any sexual behavior"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1699.08,"endTime":1701.84,"body":"outside of Covenant marriage--he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1701.84,"endTime":1703.7,"body":"uses terms that are very"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1701.84,"endTime":1703.7,"body":"familiar to us as latter-day"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1703.73,"endTime":1708.74,"body":"saints--is wrong. But we have"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1703.73,"endTime":1708.74,"body":"all of these straight born"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1708.74,"endTime":1712.13,"body":"again, Christians who are"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1708.74,"endTime":1712.13,"body":"addicted to porn, and are"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1712.13,"endTime":1714.77,"body":"beating their wives. And he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1712.13,"endTime":1714.77,"body":"calls out what he calls"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1714.77,"endTime":1717.77,"body":"Christian hypocrisy. And he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1714.77,"endTime":1717.77,"body":"comes down to a position which I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1717.77,"endTime":1720.71,"body":"think a lot of us in the church"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1717.77,"endTime":1720.71,"body":"allies, I hope, families are"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1720.71,"endTime":1725.15,"body":"members of the LGBTQ community,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1720.71,"endTime":1725.15,"body":"where we should be loving and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1725.15,"endTime":1729.23,"body":"accepting of people, even if we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1725.15,"endTime":1729.23,"body":"don't always accept their"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1729.23,"endTime":1732.32,"body":"choices and behavior. Now, to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1729.23,"endTime":1732.32,"body":"something you texted me about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1732.32,"endTime":1734.18,"body":"when you invited me to do this"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1732.32,"endTime":1734.18,"body":"episode, you said what the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1734.18,"endTime":1736.34,"body":"Scriptures say about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1734.18,"endTime":1736.34,"body":"homosexuality, and I can say"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1736.34,"endTime":1741.98,"body":"pretty clearly nothing. They say"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1736.34,"endTime":1741.98,"body":"nothing about orientation. We"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1741.98,"endTime":1744.95,"body":"have those, quote unquote"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1741.98,"endTime":1744.95,"body":"clobber passages about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1744.98,"endTime":1749.24,"body":"homosexual behavior. And I think"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1744.98,"endTime":1749.24,"body":"that's an important point,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1749.24,"endTime":1751.88,"body":"because when I was growing up,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1749.24,"endTime":1751.88,"body":"I'm 20-30 years older than you"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1751.88,"endTime":1756.11,"body":"two, when I was growing up,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1751.88,"endTime":1756.11,"body":"homosexuality equaled homosexual"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1756.11,"endTime":1759.38,"body":"behavior, just like our sexual"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1756.11,"endTime":1759.38,"body":"behavior, regardless of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1759.38,"endTime":1763.07,"body":"orientation is a choice, somehow"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1759.38,"endTime":1763.07,"body":"being homosexual was a choice. I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1763.07,"endTime":1765.38,"body":"mean, that's the way that was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1763.07,"endTime":1765.38,"body":"the verbiage I heard. That's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1765.38,"endTime":1769.7,"body":"what I heard in the 60s and 70s,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1765.38,"endTime":1769.7,"body":"and 80s, is that people chose to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1769.7,"endTime":1773.3,"body":"be gay. And as Tom talks in his"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1769.7,"endTime":1773.3,"body":"book, Tom Kristofferson talks in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1773.3,"endTime":1776.9,"body":"his book, merely accepting he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1773.3,"endTime":1776.9,"body":"was homosexual, he asked to be"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1776.9,"endTime":1780.23,"body":"excommunicated, because that was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1776.9,"endTime":1780.23,"body":"the assumption, this conflation"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1780.44,"endTime":1784.13,"body":"of identity and orientation with"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1780.44,"endTime":1784.13,"body":"behavior. And I would say the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1784.13,"endTime":1786.11,"body":"scriptures don't address that."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1784.13,"endTime":1786.11,"body":"And the reality is in the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1786.11,"endTime":1789.32,"body":"ancient world, the Greeks didn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1786.11,"endTime":1789.32,"body":"really have a word for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1789.32,"endTime":1792.44,"body":"homosexuality. They had all"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1789.32,"endTime":1792.44,"body":"kinds of words for all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1792.44,"endTime":1797.6,"body":"sexual behavior. But the reality"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1792.44,"endTime":1797.6,"body":"is no one, I'm not saying that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1797.6,"endTime":1800.6,"body":"people weren't gay or lesbian in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1797.6,"endTime":1800.6,"body":"the ancient world. didn't have"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1800.6,"endTime":1803.09,"body":"the orientations we describe it."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1800.6,"endTime":1803.09,"body":"That's just not the way they"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1803.09,"endTime":1806.12,"body":"discussed it. They just"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1803.09,"endTime":1806.12,"body":"discussed behaviors. Whereas we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1806.12,"endTime":1811.07,"body":"talked for a long time about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1806.12,"endTime":1811.07,"body":"people and their labels and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1811.07,"endTime":1812.81,"body":"conflated that with their"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1811.07,"endTime":1812.81,"body":"behaviors."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1812.93,"endTime":1815.3,"body":"Right. Terminology. so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1812.93,"endTime":1815.3,"body":"important. And I think people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1815.3,"endTime":1818.48,"body":"trip up on it quite a bit. I had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1815.3,"endTime":1818.48,"body":"a couple of thoughts as you were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1818.69,"endTime":1821.51,"body":"talking, I guess, first off, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1818.69,"endTime":1821.51,"body":"was looking into the history of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1821.51,"endTime":1824.69,"body":"the word homosexual, and a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1821.51,"endTime":1824.69,"body":"of different interpretations of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1824.69,"endTime":1826.55,"body":"the Bible, like the New"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1824.69,"endTime":1826.55,"body":"International Version, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1826.55,"endTime":1829.22,"body":"things like that include the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1826.55,"endTime":1829.22,"body":"word homosexuality, but that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1829.22,"endTime":1832.61,"body":"didn't really start until like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1829.22,"endTime":1832.61,"body":"1946, from what I was reading,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1832.61,"endTime":1835.52,"body":"and I just thought that was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1832.61,"endTime":1835.52,"body":"interesting that like, I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.55,"endTime":1838.28,"body":"people live under this guise of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.55,"endTime":1838.28,"body":"like, oh, the Bible is very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1838.28,"endTime":1841.13,"body":"clear and what it says about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1838.28,"endTime":1841.13,"body":"homosexuality, and I'm kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1841.13,"endTime":1845.24,"body":"like, well, the word didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1841.13,"endTime":1845.24,"body":"exist. And also it's not really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1845.24,"endTime":1846.05,"body":"that clear."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1846.0,"endTime":1849.39,"body":"Well, to go back"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1846.0,"endTime":1849.39,"body":"to those two terms in Romans, it"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1849.39,"endTime":1852.36,"body":"was talking about receptive"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1849.39,"endTime":1852.36,"body":"behavior and active behavior,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1852.36,"endTime":1855.75,"body":"but it didn't talk about ality"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1852.36,"endTime":1855.75,"body":"right, you know, to be"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1855.75,"endTime":1858.15,"body":"heterosexuality or"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1855.75,"endTime":1858.15,"body":"homosexuality, any kind of ality"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1858.18,"endTime":1859.92,"body":"it's kind of the Book of Mormon"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1858.18,"endTime":1859.92,"body":"tells us we shouldn't have any"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1859.92,"endTime":1863.97,"body":"kind of ites. Right. You know,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1859.92,"endTime":1863.97,"body":"it's and that those terms have"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1863.97,"endTime":1868.35,"body":"changed in your lifetime. Also,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1863.97,"endTime":1868.35,"body":"right in the 90s. I, the church."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1868.89,"endTime":1872.91,"body":"I'm not gonna say changed, but"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1868.89,"endTime":1872.91,"body":"more inspiration, I think came"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1872.91,"endTime":1876.36,"body":"to our leaders, and they"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1872.91,"endTime":1876.36,"body":"realized it was important to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1876.36,"endTime":1881.25,"body":"distinguish between any kind of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1876.36,"endTime":1881.25,"body":"behaviors and who people are."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1881.49,"endTime":1883.32,"body":"And as we're reading"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1881.49,"endTime":1883.32,"body":"these and kind of talking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1883.32,"endTime":1886.77,"body":"through them, I'm also pretty"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1883.32,"endTime":1886.77,"body":"aware of the fact that it's only"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1886.77,"endTime":1890.76,"body":"referring to, or the way we look"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1886.77,"endTime":1890.76,"body":"at it's only male, like, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1890.76,"endTime":1892.44,"body":"homosexuality isn't exclusive to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1890.76,"endTime":1892.44,"body":"mails."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1892.44,"endTime":1894.09,"body":"Yeah, well I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1892.44,"endTime":1894.09,"body":"think it's 1 Corinthians? I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1894.09,"endTime":1896.43,"body":"think it's Romans it actually"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1894.09,"endTime":1896.43,"body":"talks about women as well."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1896.46,"endTime":1896.97,"body":"Oh, does it?"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1896.959,"endTime":1899.419,"body":"Yeah, that's the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1896.959,"endTime":1899.419,"body":"only possible reference I'm"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1899.419,"endTime":1903.439,"body":"aware of to lesbianism, but one"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1899.419,"endTime":1903.439,"body":"of the Paul passages does talk"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1903.439,"endTime":1907.339,"body":"about women, but it is overall,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1903.439,"endTime":1907.339,"body":"mostly male, but the reality is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1907.339,"endTime":1910.519,"body":"most ancient discourse was male"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1907.339,"endTime":1910.519,"body":"writing for men."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1910.9,"endTime":1913.78,"body":"And I feel like even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1910.9,"endTime":1913.78,"body":"the definition of marriage in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.78,"endTime":1917.11,"body":"the ancient days was different."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1913.78,"endTime":1917.11,"body":"And like, like gender roles were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1917.11,"endTime":1920.11,"body":"different, like, as far as I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1917.11,"endTime":1920.11,"body":"mean, you kind of talked about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1920.11,"endTime":1923.17,"body":"that a little bit. But, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1920.11,"endTime":1923.17,"body":"maybe I'm ignorant, but people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1923.17,"endTime":1925.96,"body":"talk about how like women were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1923.17,"endTime":1925.96,"body":"owned, and were more property"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1925.96,"endTime":1929.68,"body":"based, and marriage was more of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1925.96,"endTime":1929.68,"body":"like, an economic or financial."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1929.95,"endTime":1931.87,"body":"And often had a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1929.95,"endTime":1931.87,"body":"lot to do with social alliances."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1931.87,"endTime":1932.14,"body":"and families."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1932.0,"endTime":1935.36,"body":"Yeah, so so I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1932.0,"endTime":1935.36,"body":"that, I think you can kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1935.36,"endTime":1937.88,"body":"get into tricky water when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1935.36,"endTime":1937.88,"body":"you're trying to superimpose the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1937.88,"endTime":1941.36,"body":"way we view marriage and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1937.88,"endTime":1941.36,"body":"religion now, onto a culture"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1941.36,"endTime":1944.6,"body":"where we we are working with,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1941.36,"endTime":1944.6,"body":"like imperfect translations as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1944.6,"endTime":1947.48,"body":"well, like, we're not reading it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1944.6,"endTime":1947.48,"body":"in its original Hebrew, and the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1947.48,"endTime":1950.39,"body":"Bible is kind of like, a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1947.48,"endTime":1950.39,"body":"conglomeration of different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1950.39,"endTime":1953.72,"body":"accounts. It's I don't think it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1950.39,"endTime":1953.72,"body":"was, at least for me, I've never"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1953.72,"endTime":1956.66,"body":"believed that it was fully"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1953.72,"endTime":1956.66,"body":"intended to be like, all of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1957.08,"endTime":1960.89,"body":"everything God wanted us to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1957.08,"endTime":1960.89,"body":"have, which also is another"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1960.89,"endTime":1963.2,"body":"wonderful reason why we have the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1960.89,"endTime":1963.2,"body":"Book of Mormon to kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1963.2,"endTime":1965.72,"body":"give context to that. And then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1963.2,"endTime":1965.72,"body":"and then one other thing I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1965.72,"endTime":1967.73,"body":"pointed out, because I was kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1965.72,"endTime":1967.73,"body":"of looking through these, these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1967.79,"endTime":1972.26,"body":"passages, too, and in Romans,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1967.79,"endTime":1972.26,"body":"and the first verse, in the very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1972.26,"endTime":1975.5,"body":"next chapter in Romans 2, Paul"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1972.26,"endTime":1975.5,"body":"is condemning those who misuse"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1975.5,"endTime":1979.28,"body":"God's teachings to judge others."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1975.5,"endTime":1979.28,"body":"And I just, I just thought that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1979.28,"endTime":1984.17,"body":"was kind of like interesting how"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1979.28,"endTime":1984.17,"body":"this verse is so used to condemn"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1984.17,"endTime":1988.79,"body":"homosexuality, and judge people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1984.17,"endTime":1988.79,"body":"who are born gay. And then in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1988.79,"endTime":1992.99,"body":"the very next verse, it says,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1988.79,"endTime":1992.99,"body":"Please don't misuse God's word,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1993.26,"endTime":1994.34,"body":"to judge others and do harm."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1995.02,"endTime":1995.23,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1995.029,"endTime":1996.889,"body":"You were"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1995.029,"endTime":1996.889,"body":"mentioned in those passages and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1996.889,"endTime":2001.179,"body":"what happens afterwards, I have"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":1996.889,"endTime":2001.179,"body":"a kind of an exercise for my"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2001.179,"endTime":2003.759,"body":"religion, students, I have them"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2001.179,"endTime":2003.759,"body":"write about passages of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2003.759,"endTime":2006.129,"body":"Scripture, they do what they"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2003.759,"endTime":2006.129,"body":"call an exegetical analysis."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2006.129,"endTime":2009.699,"body":"It's just a little four"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2006.129,"endTime":2009.699,"body":"paragraph papers or two pages on"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2009.699,"endTime":2011.919,"body":"the passage, they choose each"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2009.699,"endTime":2011.919,"body":"unit set to three during the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2011.919,"endTime":2014.739,"body":"course of the semester. And I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2011.919,"endTime":2014.739,"body":"have them ask historical,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2014.739,"endTime":2016.659,"body":"literary and theological"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2014.739,"endTime":2016.659,"body":"questions about their passage."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2016.659,"endTime":2019.329,"body":"But the literary questions a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2016.659,"endTime":2019.329,"body":"e, What kind of writing is th"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2019.569,"endTime":2023.709,"body":"s? Who is it written to? and Wh"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2019.569,"endTime":2023.709,"body":"t comes before and after? and t"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2023.709,"endTime":2027.039,"body":"at's so important, we have a ten"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2023.709,"endTime":2027.039,"body":"ency to do something called cher"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2027.039,"endTime":2031.239,"body":"y pick, we take a verse and we u"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2027.039,"endTime":2031.239,"body":"e it as a proof text. It's not"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2031.239,"endTime":2033.819,"body":"hat the application that we're g"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2031.239,"endTime":2033.819,"body":"ving it isn't legitimate, y"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2033.909,"endTime":2036.099,"body":"u know, being baptized wate"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2033.909,"endTime":2036.099,"body":"and the spirit. I mean, that's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2036.099,"endTime":2038.889,"body":"mportant proof text. Even thou"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2036.099,"endTime":2038.889,"body":"h it's a proof text, it's te"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2038.889,"endTime":2041.679,"body":"ching us something true and i"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2038.889,"endTime":2041.679,"body":"portant. But if we don't see w"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2041.679,"endTime":2044.649,"body":"at comes before and after we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2041.679,"endTime":2044.649,"body":"can take something out of conte"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2044.649,"endTime":2048.489,"body":"t or not understand the full pic"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2044.649,"endTime":2048.489,"body":"ure. And so that one passage"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2048.489,"endTime":2052.719,"body":"in 1 Corinthians 6, which is ab"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2048.489,"endTime":2052.719,"body":"ut you know, fornicato"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2052.719,"endTime":2055.929,"body":"s, idolaters, nor adulterers,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2052.719,"endTime":2055.929,"body":"or feminists, that was the s"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2055.929,"endTime":2058.329,"body":"ft ones and the abuses themsel"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2055.929,"endTime":2058.329,"body":"es with mankind. Those are men"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2058.329,"endTime":2060.849,"body":"ho lie with men. The next minu"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2058.329,"endTime":2060.849,"body":"e talks in the next verse abo"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2060.849,"endTime":2063.459,"body":"t thieves and drunkards, verse 1"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2060.849,"endTime":2063.459,"body":", we still have a list of sinner"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2063.669,"endTime":2067.029,"body":", but 11. So here's the verse th"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2063.669,"endTime":2067.029,"body":"t comes right after it that's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2067.029,"endTime":2071.919,"body":"o beautiful. \"And such were some"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2067.029,"endTime":2071.919,"body":"of you, but ye are washed,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2071.919,"endTime":2075.339,"body":"ut ye are sanctified, ye"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2071.919,"endTime":2075.339,"body":"re justified in the name of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2075.339,"endTime":2079.419,"body":"he Lord Jesus, and by the spirit"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2075.339,"endTime":2079.419,"body":"of our God.\" These particular se"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2079.419,"endTime":2083.949,"body":"ual sins are just two in a lis"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2079.419,"endTime":2083.949,"body":"of all kinds of sins, that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2083.949,"endTime":2086.829,"body":"ere part of the surrounding cul"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2083.949,"endTime":2086.829,"body":"ure in Corinth, and the Corint"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2086.829,"endTime":2089.739,"body":"ian saints had been involved in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2086.829,"endTime":2089.739,"body":"all those things, but it di"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2089.739,"endTime":2093.189,"body":"n't matter because of Jesus."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2089.739,"endTime":2093.189,"body":"hey had been washed, they'd b"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2093.189,"endTime":2095.319,"body":"en justified, which meant t"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2093.189,"endTime":2095.319,"body":"at their sins were forgiven. T"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2095.319,"endTime":2097.689,"body":"ey were brought in harmony w"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2095.319,"endTime":2097.689,"body":"th law, they were sanctified, t"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2097.689,"endTime":2100.689,"body":"ey were made holy, which is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2097.689,"endTime":2100.689,"body":"ot just making it back to grou"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2100.689,"endTime":2103.329,"body":"d zero, right? I often when I tr"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2100.689,"endTime":2103.329,"body":"to explain justification and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2103.329,"endTime":2106.659,"body":"anctification, I say if you have"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2103.329,"endTime":2106.659,"body":"the law which defined sin, that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2106.869,"endTime":2110.109,"body":"s base zero, and you sin, you"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2106.869,"endTime":2110.109,"body":"o down minus five, just"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2110.349,"endTime":2113.139,"body":"fication brings you back to zero"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2110.349,"endTime":2113.139,"body":"it forgives you. But what sanc"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2113.139,"endTime":2116.499,"body":"ification does, and we thin"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2113.139,"endTime":2116.499,"body":"it's misleading to sanc"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2116.499,"endTime":2119.049,"body":"ified could mean cleanse in Engl"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2116.499,"endTime":2119.049,"body":"sh, but in Greek and Hebr"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2119.049,"endTime":2122.829,"body":"w, it means make holy, it take"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2119.049,"endTime":2122.829,"body":"you to plus five. So the aton"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2122.829,"endTime":2125.739,"body":"ment first brings you back to b"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2122.829,"endTime":2125.739,"body":"se zero, it forgives your sin"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2125.739,"endTime":2129.099,"body":"rings you back in harmony with l"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2125.739,"endTime":2129.099,"body":"w, but then it transforms you"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2129.099,"endTime":2132.669,"body":"nd makes you more like God"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2129.099,"endTime":2132.669,"body":"nd exalts you. And that's the p"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2132.669,"endTime":2137.289,"body":"int doesn't matter who you are"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2132.669,"endTime":2137.289,"body":"r what you did. When you are ju"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2137.289,"endTime":2140.109,"body":"tified and sanctified through th"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2137.289,"endTime":2140.109,"body":"blood of Jesus Christ and the p"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2140.109,"endTime":2145.029,"body":"wer of the Spirit, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2140.109,"endTime":2145.029,"body":"atter. And it's interesting th"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2145.029,"endTime":2147.489,"body":"t, you know, once again, whe"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2145.029,"endTime":2147.489,"body":"I was growing up, we had t"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2147.489,"endTime":2151.689,"body":"is big thing about ranking sin"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2147.489,"endTime":2151.689,"body":". And I think part of that's be"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2151.689,"endTime":2154.869,"body":"ause we know that murder is y"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2151.689,"endTime":2154.869,"body":"u can't undo murder. And y"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2154.869,"endTime":2159.159,"body":"u know, sexual sins are very g"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2154.869,"endTime":2159.159,"body":"ievous. But we had a great time"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2159.159,"endTime":2163.359,"body":"ranking our sexual sins, you k"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2159.159,"endTime":2163.359,"body":"ow, and my fornicating was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2163.359,"endTime":2166.089,"body":"ad, but nothing as bad as an"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2163.359,"endTime":2166.089,"body":"of you doing homosexual st"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2166.089,"endTime":2171.279,"body":"ff, you know, a single sin can"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2166.089,"endTime":2171.279,"body":"set you apart from God. And yet"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2171.279,"endTime":2174.669,"body":"all of those things can be ove"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2171.279,"endTime":2174.669,"body":"come by the grace of Christ."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2174.669,"endTime":2177.369,"body":"ow, you had asked earlier, and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2174.669,"endTime":2177.369,"body":"hadn't dodged, because I always"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2177.369,"endTime":2181.029,"body":"want to talk about Jesus. But"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2177.369,"endTime":2181.029,"body":"hat has Jesus taught about it?"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2181.029,"endTime":2185.289,"body":"othing, right. Jesus does not"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2181.029,"endTime":2185.289,"body":"address the issue of homosexual"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2185.379,"endTime":2189.759,"body":"ehavior clearly at all. He"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2185.379,"endTime":2189.759,"body":"oes, of course, talk about marri"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2189.759,"endTime":2192.489,"body":"ge. And that's the closest I co"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2189.759,"endTime":2192.489,"body":"ld come as I was trying to refl"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2192.489,"endTime":2195.489,"body":"ct upon this. You know, Cha"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2192.489,"endTime":2195.489,"body":"lie has talked movingly about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2195.489,"endTime":2198.309,"body":"how the Book of Mormon is a life"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2195.489,"endTime":2198.309,"body":"ine for him, because it just t"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2198.309,"endTime":2200.589,"body":"stifies to him of truth and bri"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2198.309,"endTime":2200.589,"body":"gs them to Christ, and does"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2200.589,"endTime":2205.029,"body":"'t have clobber passages that c"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2200.589,"endTime":2205.029,"body":"uld set him off. I don't w"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2205.059,"endTime":2208.179,"body":"nt this passage from from M"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2205.059,"endTime":2208.179,"body":"rk, and there's a parallel in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2208.179,"endTime":2212.079,"body":"Matthew to set anyone off who d"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2208.179,"endTime":2212.079,"body":"esn't feel like she or he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2212.079,"endTime":2215.199,"body":"an be in a heterosexual marri"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2212.079,"endTime":2215.199,"body":"ge in this life, or ever that it"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2215.199,"endTime":2218.049,"body":"s another issue, I'd like to, I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2215.199,"endTime":2218.049,"body":"d like to hear as much from y"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2218.049,"endTime":2221.439,"body":"u as talk because this is, th"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2218.049,"endTime":2221.439,"body":"s is your life. I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2221.439,"endTime":2225.609,"body":"t it from the outside. I know"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2221.439,"endTime":2225.609,"body":"marriage. And the promise about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2225.609,"endTime":2227.439,"body":"hether you're gonna have ever"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2225.609,"endTime":2227.439,"body":"blessing the next lif"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2227.439,"endTime":2230.349,"body":"or not, is a complicated on"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2227.439,"endTime":2230.349,"body":". You know, I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2230.349,"endTime":2235.359,"body":"my son at the beginning, it was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2230.349,"endTime":2235.359,"body":"very easy for me as I first bec"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2235.389,"endTime":2239.439,"body":"me sensitized to LGBTQ issue"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2235.389,"endTime":2239.439,"body":", to say, Oh, this is just anot"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2239.439,"endTime":2242.889,"body":"er disability in life. You know"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2239.439,"endTime":2242.889,"body":"just like my son can't have"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2242.889,"endTime":2245.019,"body":"relationship won't get married"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2242.889,"endTime":2245.019,"body":"in this life. But I've been pro"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2245.019,"endTime":2248.079,"body":"ised that the resurrection will"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2245.019,"endTime":2248.079,"body":"e made whole. I didn't realize"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2248.079,"endTime":2251.049,"body":"hat sometimes the way the res"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2248.079,"endTime":2251.049,"body":"of us glibly talk about this c"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2251.049,"endTime":2254.049,"body":"n actually be hurtful. I gav"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2251.049,"endTime":2254.049,"body":"a devotional that addressed"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2254.049,"endTime":2257.109,"body":"some of these issues back in A"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2254.049,"endTime":2257.109,"body":"gust of 2018. And as a resu"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2257.109,"endTime":2260.829,"body":"t, I spoke at Northstar o"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2257.109,"endTime":2260.829,"body":"ce. And in my preparation for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2260.829,"endTime":2264.219,"body":"orthstar, a gay friend warned"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2260.829,"endTime":2264.219,"body":"e he said, Eric don't do the d"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2264.489,"endTime":2269.049,"body":"sability thing. Because I have f"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2264.489,"endTime":2269.049,"body":"iends who feel very strongly th"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2269.049,"endTime":2272.169,"body":"t that is their eternal identit"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2269.049,"endTime":2272.169,"body":". And the reality is, we don't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2272.169,"endTime":2274.209,"body":"know what the Scriptures"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2272.169,"endTime":2274.209,"body":"say about homosexuality, nothin"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2274.209,"endTime":2276.309,"body":". What do they say about it"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2274.209,"endTime":2276.309,"body":"origins? Nothing. What do they"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2276.309,"endTime":2280.959,"body":"say about its end nothing. So"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2276.309,"endTime":2280.959,"body":"I understand that, that talki"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2281.319,"endTime":2285.549,"body":"g about this can be triggerin"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2281.319,"endTime":2285.549,"body":"for some in the LGBTQ communi"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2285.549,"endTime":2289.179,"body":"y. But it is true that Jesus in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2285.549,"endTime":2289.179,"body":"the earliest, Mark's earlie"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2289.179,"endTime":2292.899,"body":"than Matthew, which is why I al"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2289.179,"endTime":2292.899,"body":"ays start in Mark first. This"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2293.379,"endTime":2296.739,"body":"2-13. It's actually"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2293.379,"endTime":2296.739,"body":"n the context of a pharasaic qu"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2296.979,"endTime":2301.839,"body":"stion, you know, is it okay t"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2296.979,"endTime":2301.839,"body":"divorce a wife? And Jesus"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2301.839,"endTime":2303.789,"body":"ays, \"Well, Moses allowed you t"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2301.839,"endTime":2303.789,"body":"do it because of the hardness"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2303.789,"endTime":2305.919,"body":"f your heart. But it shou"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2303.789,"endTime":2305.919,"body":"dn't be that way. Because in the"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2305.919,"endTime":2309.189,"body":"beginning, and he alludes to"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2305.919,"endTime":2309.189,"body":"Genesis 1:2, that's what Webb a"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2309.189,"endTime":2312.879,"body":"d evangelical Christians will c"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2309.189,"endTime":2312.879,"body":"ll a creation mandate. God c"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2312.879,"endTime":2316.779,"body":"eated man and woman what"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2312.879,"endTime":2316.779,"body":"od has joined asunder, don't eve"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2316.779,"endTime":2321.279,"body":"separate.\" So Jesus c"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2316.779,"endTime":2321.279,"body":"early endorses heterosexual marr"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2321.279,"endTime":2323.169,"body":"age, as coming from God, whic"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2321.279,"endTime":2323.169,"body":"of course a latter-da"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2323.169,"endTime":2325.239,"body":"saints, the proclamati"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2323.169,"endTime":2325.239,"body":"n family, we certainly a"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2325.239,"endTime":2328.779,"body":"cept as well. But you know, what"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2325.239,"endTime":2328.779,"body":"is really striking because of o"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2328.899,"endTime":2333.129,"body":"r, our cultural as well as"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2328.899,"endTime":2333.129,"body":"ur religious surroundings,"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2333.129,"endTime":2336.429,"body":"nd acculturation. The Scriptu"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2333.129,"endTime":2336.429,"body":"es actually talk a lot less ab"},{"speaker":"is Mark 10","startTime":2336.429,"endTime":2337.419,"body":"ut marriage than you assu"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2338.65,"endTime":2340.06,"body":"seminary"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2338.65,"endTime":2340.06,"body":"questions, I do home study"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2340.06,"endTime":2342.94,"body":"seminary with my son, since he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2340.06,"endTime":2342.94,"body":"can't do release time, or I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2342.94,"endTime":2345.07,"body":"really have to work through it"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2342.94,"endTime":2345.07,"body":"with him. And you know, the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2345.07,"endTime":2347.29,"body":"manual is like, so what is the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2345.07,"endTime":2347.29,"body":"Old Testament teach you about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2347.29,"endTime":2350.11,"body":"marriage? And well, there's a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2347.29,"endTime":2350.11,"body":"lot of polygamy going on."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2350.14,"endTime":2353.5,"body":"There's a lot of forced pairs. I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2350.14,"endTime":2353.5,"body":"mean, there wasn't the clean,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2353.5,"endTime":2357.25,"body":"nice temple marriages that we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2353.5,"endTime":2357.25,"body":"experience, or talk about, or"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2357.25,"endTime":2359.53,"body":"celebrate, at least in the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2357.25,"endTime":2359.53,"body":"church today. And there's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2359.53,"endTime":2362.11,"body":"actually not as much of in the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2359.53,"endTime":2362.11,"body":"New Testament either or the Book"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2362.11,"endTime":2364.93,"body":"of Mormon, for that matter. I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2362.11,"endTime":2364.93,"body":"mean, you've got section 132,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2364.93,"endTime":2367.48,"body":"but that's fraught with some of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2364.93,"endTime":2367.48,"body":"the plural marriage things even."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2368.29,"endTime":2372.04,"body":"Part of it may be because it was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2368.29,"endTime":2372.04,"body":"such a given in all societies,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2372.37,"endTime":2374.92,"body":"that there wasn't the need to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2372.37,"endTime":2374.92,"body":"talk about its importance and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2374.92,"endTime":2377.8,"body":"sanctity as much, but Jesus"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2374.92,"endTime":2377.8,"body":"clearly does espouse marriage is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2377.8,"endTime":2381.82,"body":"from God. There is one passage"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2377.8,"endTime":2381.82,"body":"and I don't know that I can"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2381.82,"endTime":2384.04,"body":"firmly say, I promised you I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2381.82,"endTime":2384.04,"body":"would not say anything the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2384.04,"endTime":2388.27,"body":"scriptures clearly say. So this"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2384.04,"endTime":2388.27,"body":"is just me wondering with you."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2388.66,"endTime":2393.1,"body":"There's in Matthew's version of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2388.66,"endTime":2393.1,"body":"the marriage passage. This is in"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2393.1,"endTime":2397.78,"body":"3-9 he's talking"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2393.1,"endTime":2397.78,"body":"about you know, don't get"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2397.78,"endTime":2401.41,"body":"divorced except for adultery."},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2397.78,"endTime":2401.41,"body":"And After the Pharisees leave,"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2401.41,"endTime":2405.85,"body":"Peter says, Wow, if I can't get"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2401.41,"endTime":2405.85,"body":"rid of her, maybe it's better"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2405.85,"endTime":2408.28,"body":"not to marry at all. I mean, I'm"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2405.85,"endTime":2408.28,"body":"being a little flippant there."},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2408.43,"endTime":2410.74,"body":"But it's almost like the"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2408.43,"endTime":2410.74,"body":"disciples are saying, if you"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2410.74,"endTime":2412.99,"body":"can't get divorced for any"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2410.74,"endTime":2412.99,"body":"cause, you know what if it's"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2412.99,"endTime":2415.12,"body":"just impossible to live with"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2412.99,"endTime":2415.12,"body":"her, she doesn't cook. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2415.15,"endTime":2418.75,"body":"who knows what he was thinking."},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2415.15,"endTime":2418.75,"body":"And in the mythean version, I"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2418.75,"endTime":2420.88,"body":"better read this rather than"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2418.75,"endTime":2420.88,"body":"paraphrase because I don't want"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2420.88,"endTime":2425.71,"body":"to get it wrong. Jesus actually"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2420.88,"endTime":2425.71,"body":"says, All men cannot receive the"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2425.71,"endTime":2429.91,"body":"same save they to whom it is"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2425.71,"endTime":2429.91,"body":"given. This idea that"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2430.57,"endTime":2433.42,"body":"heterosexual marriage is a gift"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2430.57,"endTime":2433.42,"body":"from God and should be"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2433.45,"endTime":2437.77,"body":"indissolvable, it should be"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2433.45,"endTime":2437.77,"body":"permanent. He said, not everyone"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2437.77,"endTime":2441.46,"body":"can accept that though. And then"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2437.77,"endTime":2441.46,"body":"he has this interesting passage"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2441.46,"endTime":2444.46,"body":"in verse 12. For there are some"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2441.46,"endTime":2444.46,"body":"eunuchs which are born from"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2444.46,"endTime":2447.73,"body":"their mother's womb. And there"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2444.46,"endTime":2447.73,"body":"are some which are made eunuchs"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2447.73,"endTime":2451.54,"body":"of men. And there be eunuchs"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2447.73,"endTime":2451.54,"body":"which have made themselves"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2451.54,"endTime":2454.48,"body":"eunuchs for the Kingdom of"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2451.54,"endTime":2454.48,"body":"Heaven sake. Now, clearly here,"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2454.48,"endTime":2458.62,"body":"eunuch doesn't have to be"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2454.48,"endTime":2458.62,"body":"literally a castrated male. You"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2458.62,"endTime":2461.23,"body":"know, it could be suggesting"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2458.62,"endTime":2461.23,"body":"some people are born with birth"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2461.23,"endTime":2465.4,"body":"defects that don't let them"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2461.23,"endTime":2465.4,"body":"function sexually, or perhaps"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2465.4,"endTime":2469.15,"body":"emotionally like as a person"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2465.4,"endTime":2469.15,"body":"with autism like my son, some"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2469.15,"endTime":2472.72,"body":"are made eunuchs by men. Well,"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2469.15,"endTime":2472.72,"body":"clearly there was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2472.93,"endTime":2476.77,"body":"slavery going on and eunuchs"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2472.93,"endTime":2476.77,"body":"were created. But that last"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2476.77,"endTime":2479.26,"body":"line, some make themselves"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2476.77,"endTime":2479.26,"body":"eunuchs for the Kingdom of"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2479.26,"endTime":2481.54,"body":"Heaven sake. Now, there's a"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2479.26,"endTime":2481.54,"body":"horrible story of an early"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2481.54,"endTime":2484.72,"body":"Christian father named Origen,"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2481.54,"endTime":2484.72,"body":"who struggled with chastity. And"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2484.72,"endTime":2487.33,"body":"in a moment of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2484.72,"endTime":2487.33,"body":"excessive piety, castrated"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2487.33,"endTime":2490.33,"body":"himself with a piece of glass,"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2487.33,"endTime":2490.33,"body":"trying to make himself a eunuch"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2490.33,"endTime":2492.52,"body":"for the Kingdom of Heaven's"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2490.33,"endTime":2492.52,"body":"sake. But let's just say for a"},{"speaker":"Matthew 19","startTime":2492.52,"endTime":2493.9,"body":"moment that this is..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2493.9,"endTime":2494.83,"body":"We are not endorsed that."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2494.86,"endTime":2497.23,"body":"Not endorsing it."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2494.86,"endTime":2497.23,"body":"And once again, this is me just"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2497.23,"endTime":2499.42,"body":"thinking aloud with you, right?"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2497.23,"endTime":2499.42,"body":"I'm not saying this, the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2499.42,"endTime":2501.55,"body":"scriptures clearly teaching"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2499.42,"endTime":2501.55,"body":"this, but it's something that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2501.55,"endTime":2505.99,"body":"came to me once when a student,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2501.55,"endTime":2505.99,"body":"he didn't say that he, it was an"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2505.99,"endTime":2508.57,"body":"orientation issue for him. But I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2505.99,"endTime":2508.57,"body":"could just tell the pain with"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2508.57,"endTime":2510.61,"body":"which he asked the question"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2508.57,"endTime":2510.61,"body":"about marriage that there was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2510.61,"endTime":2513.82,"body":"something going on there. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2510.61,"endTime":2513.82,"body":"And so I felt, I felt a little"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2513.82,"endTime":2517.78,"body":"prompted to explore this verse"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2513.82,"endTime":2517.78,"body":"with him. If we're using eunuch"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2517.78,"endTime":2521.83,"body":"symbolically, for people who are"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2517.78,"endTime":2521.83,"body":"not married permanently, as"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2521.83,"endTime":2524.83,"body":"Jesus has just laid out to the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2521.83,"endTime":2524.83,"body":"Pharisees and his disciples,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2525.88,"endTime":2529.15,"body":"someone who and I know this is a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2525.88,"endTime":2529.15,"body":"choice that I can't even relate"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2529.15,"endTime":2534.67,"body":"to. But for those who elect a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2529.15,"endTime":2534.67,"body":"life of Covenant keeping, which"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2534.67,"endTime":2538.15,"body":"might mean a life that's single"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2534.67,"endTime":2538.15,"body":"to keep the covenants and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2538.15,"endTime":2541.78,"body":"receive the promises they've"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2538.15,"endTime":2541.78,"body":"been given. Could that not be"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2541.78,"endTime":2545.29,"body":"those who make themselves"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2541.78,"endTime":2545.29,"body":"eunuchs for heaven's sake. Now,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2545.29,"endTime":2549.04,"body":"once again, I understand this"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2545.29,"endTime":2549.04,"body":"can be triggering, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2549.04,"endTime":2552.85,"body":"want to be flippant about it as"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2549.04,"endTime":2552.85,"body":"an outsider, I was brought to my"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2552.85,"endTime":2556.21,"body":"attention about the same time I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2552.85,"endTime":2556.21,"body":"was speaking at Northstar, that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2556.21,"endTime":2560.89,"body":"someone a leader actually had"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2556.21,"endTime":2560.89,"body":"said to someone, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2560.89,"endTime":2562.69,"body":"not any different than being a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2560.89,"endTime":2562.69,"body":"single woman who doesn't have a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2562.69,"endTime":2566.77,"body":"chance to get married. And this"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2562.69,"endTime":2566.77,"body":"person's response was a single"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2566.77,"endTime":2570.58,"body":"woman can pray every night that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2566.77,"endTime":2570.58,"body":"she'll meet and marry. I have to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2570.58,"endTime":2573.28,"body":"pray every night that I don't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2570.58,"endTime":2573.28,"body":"fall in love. So I understand."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2573.79,"endTime":2575.02,"body":"These are hard issues."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2575.0,"endTime":2576.98,"body":"Yeah. You know, Eric, as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2575.0,"endTime":2576.98,"body":"you're talking about eunuchs,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2576.98,"endTime":2581.57,"body":"I'm reminded of a scripture in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2576.98,"endTime":2581.57,"body":"Isaiah 56, where he's talking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2581.57,"endTime":2584.51,"body":"directly to eunuchs and he said,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2581.57,"endTime":2584.51,"body":"I will give you a name. I'll"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2584.51,"endTime":2587.45,"body":"give you a name. And like within"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2584.51,"endTime":2587.45,"body":"my in my house within my walls,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2587.45,"endTime":2589.49,"body":"I'll give you a place a name"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2587.45,"endTime":2589.49,"body":"better than if something else."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2589.52,"endTime":2592.04,"body":"I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2589.52,"endTime":2592.04,"body":"you're aware of this, the museum"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2592.04,"endTime":2595.49,"body":"and memorial to the Holocaust in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2592.04,"endTime":2595.49,"body":"Jerusalem is called Yad Vashem."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2595.94,"endTime":2596.72,"body":"Of course I knew that."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2596.72,"endTime":2599.33,"body":"Hebrew is hand"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2596.72,"endTime":2599.33,"body":"and a name. But it's referring"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2599.33,"endTime":2602.93,"body":"to that Isaiah passage, that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2599.33,"endTime":2602.93,"body":"these eunuchs who were not"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2602.93,"endTime":2606.98,"body":"allowed to participate fully in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2602.93,"endTime":2606.98,"body":"the temple practice, and felt"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2606.98,"endTime":2610.34,"body":"like they were a dry tree, and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2606.98,"endTime":2610.34,"body":"they would not have posterity."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2611.12,"endTime":2615.14,"body":"Jesus basically says to him, of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2611.12,"endTime":2615.14,"body":"Jehovah, Jehovah basically says"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2615.14,"endTime":2620.21,"body":"to them, I will give you a name"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2615.14,"endTime":2620.21,"body":"and a place in my house. It"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2620.21,"endTime":2626.33,"body":"reminds me is it Samuels mother,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2620.21,"endTime":2626.33,"body":"Hannah. And she's kind of in a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2626.33,"endTime":2630.62,"body":"plural marriage situation. And"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2626.33,"endTime":2630.62,"body":"her Penihah, I think is her. Her"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2630.83,"endTime":2632.9,"body":"sister wife has given her a hard"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2630.83,"endTime":2632.9,"body":"time because she doesn't have"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2632.9,"endTime":2635.57,"body":"any children. And she kind of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2632.9,"endTime":2635.57,"body":"complains. She kind of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2635.57,"endTime":2638.87,"body":"complaints her husband Elkanah"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2635.57,"endTime":2638.87,"body":"answers, you know, she's got all"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2638.87,"endTime":2641.57,"body":"these kids and I have nothing."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2638.87,"endTime":2641.57,"body":"He says, aren't I better than 12"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2641.57,"endTime":2644.0,"body":"sons to you? Typical male thing"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2641.57,"endTime":2644.0,"body":"to say right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2644.36,"endTime":2645.26,"body":"Chauvinist."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2645.65,"endTime":2648.74,"body":"And that's why I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2645.65,"endTime":2648.74,"body":"wanted to qualify everything I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2648.74,"endTime":2652.52,"body":"said, because I shouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2648.74,"endTime":2652.52,"body":"telling you how to feel and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2652.52,"endTime":2655.85,"body":"experience. And I'm sorry, for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2652.52,"endTime":2655.85,"body":"getting once again verklempt"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2655.85,"endTime":2661.4,"body":"about it. I took very seriously"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2655.85,"endTime":2661.4,"body":"when President Ballard what was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2661.4,"endTime":2664.88,"body":"it November 2017. In that great"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2661.4,"endTime":2664.88,"body":"devotional Questions and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2664.88,"endTime":2668.9,"body":"Answers, he said, we need to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2664.88,"endTime":2668.9,"body":"hear and listen to our"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2668.9,"endTime":2673.1,"body":"homosexual sisters and brothers."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2668.9,"endTime":2673.1,"body":"And so I always feel a little"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2673.1,"endTime":2677.9,"body":"amiss when I try to venture"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2673.1,"endTime":2677.9,"body":"suggestions. Because I need to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2677.9,"endTime":2682.4,"body":"listen to the experiences you're"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2677.9,"endTime":2682.4,"body":"having, and how difficult it is,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2682.97,"endTime":2688.25,"body":"how rewarding it is. That's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2682.97,"endTime":2688.25,"body":"where a lot of us mainstream"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2688.76,"endTime":2692.0,"body":"members of the church would do"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2688.76,"endTime":2692.0,"body":"better to listen more."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2692.27,"endTime":2694.28,"body":"And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2692.27,"endTime":2694.28,"body":"really beautiful. And thank you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2694.28,"endTime":2696.89,"body":"for saying that. And just this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2694.28,"endTime":2696.89,"body":"idea that eunuchs were kept out"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2696.89,"endTime":2700.22,"body":"of the temple and Jehovah saying"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2696.89,"endTime":2700.22,"body":"you've got a place in my house."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2700.7,"endTime":2701.63,"body":"The Heavenly"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2700.7,"endTime":2701.63,"body":"temple."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2701.66,"endTime":2703.4,"body":"Yeah, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2701.66,"endTime":2703.4,"body":"incredibly beautiful. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2703.4,"endTime":2703.76,"body":"know that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2703.76,"endTime":2707.6,"body":"That is beautiful Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2703.76,"endTime":2707.6,"body":"Could you read the the first"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2707.63,"endTime":2711.11,"body":"like, a couple before the unique"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2707.63,"endTime":2711.11,"body":"scripture you read something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2711.11,"endTime":2713.42,"body":"about like, to whom it is given?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2711.11,"endTime":2713.42,"body":"Will you read that again?"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2712.96,"endTime":2715.27,"body":"Well, yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2712.96,"endTime":2715.27,"body":"he's just given the big long"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2715.27,"endTime":2717.97,"body":"speech. So the the Pharisees"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2715.27,"endTime":2717.97,"body":"have posed the questions about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2717.97,"endTime":2720.85,"body":"whether you can divorce for any"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2717.97,"endTime":2720.85,"body":"cause. And by the way, this was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2720.85,"endTime":2723.82,"body":"actually a big topic of debate"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2720.85,"endTime":2723.82,"body":"between two different branches"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2723.82,"endTime":2725.62,"body":"of the Pharisees, there's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2723.82,"endTime":2725.62,"body":"something called the Beit Hillel"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2725.62,"endTime":2728.74,"body":"and the Beit Chemai, a really"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2725.62,"endTime":2728.74,"body":"strict group of Pharisees that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2728.74,"endTime":2731.35,"body":"said, Moses said, you can"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2728.74,"endTime":2731.35,"body":"divorce or just put up a bill of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2731.35,"endTime":2733.78,"body":"divorce when she burned the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2731.35,"endTime":2733.78,"body":"dinner, she's out. But a lot of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2733.78,"endTime":2736.84,"body":"the Pharisees were actually"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2733.78,"endTime":2736.84,"body":"pretty compassionate. I often"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2736.84,"endTime":2739.63,"body":"tell my students don't diss the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2736.84,"endTime":2739.63,"body":"Pharisees all the time. I know"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2739.63,"endTime":2741.88,"body":"Matthew does, but the other"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2739.63,"endTime":2741.88,"body":"gospel authors don't as much."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2742.15,"endTime":2744.61,"body":"They don't take a hypocritical"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2742.15,"endTime":2744.61,"body":"oath to be a fantasy. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2744.61,"endTime":2747.34,"body":"they were actually the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2744.61,"endTime":2747.34,"body":"progressives in Judaism in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2747.34,"endTime":2750.76,"body":"Second Bethel Judaism. And the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2747.34,"endTime":2750.76,"body":"Beit Hillel, the group of the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2750.76,"endTime":2754.39,"body":"house of Hillel said, No, we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2750.76,"endTime":2754.39,"body":"should love our wives, we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2754.39,"endTime":2756.91,"body":"shouldn't just divorce them for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2754.39,"endTime":2756.91,"body":"any cause. So the Pharisees were"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2756.91,"endTime":2760.57,"body":"actually asking Jesus to, to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2756.91,"endTime":2760.57,"body":"take a stand in an argument they"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2760.57,"endTime":2763.27,"body":"were having in their own group."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2760.57,"endTime":2763.27,"body":"And so he's given this big long"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2763.27,"endTime":2765.91,"body":"thing about you know, God"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2763.27,"endTime":2765.91,"body":"created man and woman, and a man"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2765.91,"endTime":2768.91,"body":"shall leave his father and a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2765.91,"endTime":2768.91,"body":"mother shall leave her home, and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2768.91,"endTime":2771.43,"body":"they shall clean together and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2768.91,"endTime":2771.43,"body":"what God has put together don't,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2771.82,"endTime":2776.14,"body":"don't separate, the Pharisees"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2771.82,"endTime":2776.14,"body":"leave. And then Peter says, His"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2776.14,"endTime":2779.23,"body":"disciples say to him, not Peter"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2776.14,"endTime":2779.23,"body":"I'm not going to blame it on hi"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2779.23,"endTime":2783.88,"body":". If this is the case of the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2779.23,"endTime":2783.88,"body":"man be so with his wife, it's g"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2783.88,"endTime":2789.46,"body":"od not to marry. There's no esca"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2783.88,"endTime":2789.46,"body":"e clause, I'd rather not get"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2790.06,"endTime":2794.2,"body":"ntangled. And Jesus says, but he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2790.06,"endTime":2794.2,"body":"said unto them, all men cannot r"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2794.2,"endTime":2799.84,"body":"ceive the same save them to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2794.2,"endTime":2799.84,"body":"hom it is given. It seems, I mea"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2799.84,"endTime":2803.59,"body":", reading between the lines, o"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2799.84,"endTime":2803.59,"body":"ce again, leaving exegesi"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2803.59,"endTime":2806.83,"body":"and just speculating a litt"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2803.59,"endTime":2806.83,"body":"e bit. So this is just our o"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2806.83,"endTime":2811.66,"body":"inion. It seems to be openin"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2806.83,"endTime":2811.66,"body":"the door that Jesus recognize"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2811.66,"endTime":2815.47,"body":"that not everyone hearing h"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2811.66,"endTime":2815.47,"body":"m then or reading him now will"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2815.47,"endTime":2820.78,"body":"e in that situation. Not everyo"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2815.47,"endTime":2820.78,"body":"e will be in that marriage man"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2820.81,"endTime":2822.16,"body":"and woman that we should not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2823.47,"endTime":2825.72,"body":"And the wording that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2823.47,"endTime":2825.72,"body":"was interesting to me, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2825.72,"endTime":2830.79,"body":"it says excepted to him who is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2825.72,"endTime":2830.79,"body":"given that says, accept him to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2830.79,"endTime":2835.32,"body":"whom it is given? Yeah, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2830.79,"endTime":2835.32,"body":"don't know, I bet I feel like we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2835.32,"endTime":2838.44,"body":"should just honestly do a whole"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2835.32,"endTime":2838.44,"body":"other episode about like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2838.47,"endTime":2842.04,"body":"marriage, as well as we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2838.47,"endTime":2842.04,"body":"talking. But, but this is just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2842.04,"endTime":2845.4,"body":"making me think about, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2842.04,"endTime":2845.4,"body":"when I was really wondering if I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2845.4,"endTime":2849.21,"body":"should, like, I was going to try"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2845.4,"endTime":2849.21,"body":"for a mixed orientation"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2849.21,"endTime":2854.1,"body":"marriage, like that was my plan."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2849.21,"endTime":2854.1,"body":"A, which was Plan B, like my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2854.1,"endTime":2855.78,"body":"plan and plan A was don't be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2854.1,"endTime":2855.78,"body":"gay."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2856.51,"endTime":2859.54,"body":"Right, right. That"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2856.51,"endTime":2859.54,"body":"didn't work. And I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2857.13,"endTime":2857.97,"body":"Pray it away."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2859.54,"endTime":2862.69,"body":"was all in for heterosexual"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2859.54,"endTime":2862.69,"body":"marriage and mixed orientation"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2862.69,"endTime":2865.6,"body":"marriage, I guess, not"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2862.69,"endTime":2865.6,"body":"necessarily heterosexual but"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2865.63,"endTime":2869.17,"body":"marrying a girl. And I was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2865.63,"endTime":2869.17,"body":"trying so hard, and it was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2869.17,"endTime":2873.49,"body":"killing me. It was destroying"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2869.17,"endTime":2873.49,"body":"me. I was depressed. I was sick."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2873.67,"endTime":2877.93,"body":"I did not want to kiss girls. I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2873.67,"endTime":2877.93,"body":"couldn't even fathom like"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2877.93,"endTime":2881.2,"body":"creating a child. I didn't want"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2877.93,"endTime":2881.2,"body":"that. And I was just like,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2881.2,"endTime":2885.64,"body":"ramming my head against this"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2881.2,"endTime":2885.64,"body":"wall, trying to keep that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2885.64,"endTime":2889.42,"body":"commandment that I thought I had"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2885.64,"endTime":2889.42,"body":"covenanted that I thought was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2889.42,"endTime":2895.54,"body":"given to me to be married to be"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2889.42,"endTime":2895.54,"body":"exalted. And I was reading in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2895.54,"endTime":2900.61,"body":"D\u0026C 132, is that it? Where it ta"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2895.54,"endTime":2900.61,"body":"ks about the new and everlast"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2900.7,"endTime":2903.49,"body":"ng covenant? And I actually"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2900.7,"endTime":2903.49,"body":"ead this verse too. And I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2903.49,"endTime":2908.44,"body":"rayed, and I just had a very"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2903.49,"endTime":2908.44,"body":"trong feeling that that is not"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2908.44,"endTime":2911.05,"body":"our commandment, you are not"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2908.44,"endTime":2911.05,"body":"ne to whom that has been given."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2911.53,"endTime":2916.03,"body":"nd so you're going to be okay."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2911.53,"endTime":2916.03,"body":"nd I don't I don't know."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2916.09,"endTime":2919.12,"body":"ometimes I feel like I say, I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2916.09,"endTime":2919.12,"body":"on't want everyone to like,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2919.63,"endTime":2922.51,"body":"hink what I think is what you"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2919.63,"endTime":2922.51,"body":"hould do. Like everyone is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2922.51,"endTime":2926.26,"body":"ifferent. But like, when I went"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2922.51,"endTime":2926.26,"body":"o God, and was like, God, I'm"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2926.26,"endTime":2930.07,"body":"ying here. Like, I need"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2926.26,"endTime":2930.07,"body":"omething. The Scriptures, they"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2930.07,"endTime":2933.73,"body":"elped me. And to me, it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2930.07,"endTime":2933.73,"body":"capegoat, like, like, someone"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2933.73,"endTime":2936.28,"body":"ould listen to a story that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2933.73,"endTime":2936.28,"body":"ust told me like, Oh, you found"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2936.28,"endTime":2938.8,"body":"scapegoat where you could"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2936.28,"endTime":2938.8,"body":"kirt that commandment. And to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2938.8,"endTime":2942.1,"body":"e, that's not that's not what"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2938.8,"endTime":2942.1,"body":"t was at all. It felt like a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2942.1,"endTime":2945.73,"body":"elief. It felt like accessing"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2942.1,"endTime":2945.73,"body":"he power of Jesus Christ and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2945.73,"endTime":2949.75,"body":"eing held and safe, you know,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2945.73,"endTime":2949.75,"body":"n something that I viewed as a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2949.58,"endTime":2960.65,"body":"You know, once"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2949.58,"endTime":2960.65,"body":"again, kind of from an outside"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2949.75,"endTime":2952.21,"body":"ommandment that was just"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2949.75,"endTime":2952.21,"body":"urting me and destroying me"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2952.21,"endTime":2955.69,"body":"nternally. And I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2952.21,"endTime":2955.69,"body":"t's just.."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2958.8,"endTime":2994.56,"body":"That's how I speak about it."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2960.65,"endTime":2965.36,"body":"perspective, watching how not"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2960.65,"endTime":2965.36,"body":"just society has changed in the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2965.36,"endTime":2970.01,"body":"last 30 or 40 years, in some"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2965.36,"endTime":2970.01,"body":"ways for the better, some ways,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2970.01,"endTime":2973.94,"body":"perhaps not. But even within the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2970.01,"endTime":2973.94,"body":"church. You know, I remember"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2973.94,"endTime":2977.09,"body":"when President Hinckley said"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2973.94,"endTime":2977.09,"body":"marriage is not a solution to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2977.09,"endTime":2981.71,"body":"this problem. That was probably"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2977.09,"endTime":2981.71,"body":"in the late 80s, maybe the 90s"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2982.25,"endTime":2986.18,"body":"because it had been suggested"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2982.25,"endTime":2986.18,"body":"before, as you know, and one of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2986.18,"endTime":2990.5,"body":"the first things once again,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2986.18,"endTime":2990.5,"body":"that I hadn't fathomed, because"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2990.5,"endTime":2993.77,"body":"growing up homosexuality wasn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2990.5,"endTime":2993.77,"body":"about orientation. It was about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2993.77,"endTime":2999.26,"body":"behavior. You know, we didn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2993.77,"endTime":2999.26,"body":"understand. In fact, I was I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2995.32,"endTime":3073.35,"body":"You know, the the being able to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2995.32,"endTime":3073.35,"body":"bond and love and care for other"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2999.26,"endTime":3001.81,"body":"didn't understand my sexuality,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":2999.26,"endTime":3001.81,"body":"I didn't understand that it"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3001.81,"endTime":3005.68,"body":"wasn't just about physical acts."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3001.81,"endTime":3005.68,"body":"It was about bonding. It was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3005.68,"endTime":3008.89,"body":"about love. It was about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3005.68,"endTime":3008.89,"body":"connection. Right. And it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3008.89,"endTime":3011.77,"body":"just, and that's why these"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3008.89,"endTime":3011.77,"body":"particular passages in the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3011.77,"endTime":3014.59,"body":"Hebrew Bible in the Greek New"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3011.77,"endTime":3014.59,"body":"Testament aren't enough. This is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3014.59,"endTime":3018.4,"body":"why we have to have the Spirit."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3014.59,"endTime":3018.4,"body":"And we are waiting on revelation"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3018.4,"endTime":3022.0,"body":"from authorized sources to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3018.4,"endTime":3022.0,"body":"understand more about the cause,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3022.03,"endTime":3025.84,"body":"and the destiny and the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3022.03,"endTime":3025.84,"body":"resolution. Because that was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3025.84,"endTime":3030.31,"body":"really transformative for me to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3025.84,"endTime":3030.31,"body":"realize this wasn't just about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3030.4,"endTime":3036.01,"body":"not doing X, Y, and Z. It was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3030.4,"endTime":3036.01,"body":"about how people related to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3036.01,"endTime":3038.14,"body":"other people and how they wer"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3036.01,"endTime":3038.14,"body":"bonded and how they wer"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3038.14,"endTime":3041.83,"body":"attracted. You know, I didn'"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3038.14,"endTime":3041.83,"body":"realize it was not just abou"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3041.83,"endTime":3045.22,"body":"not wanting to kiss a girl o"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3041.83,"endTime":3045.22,"body":"make a baby. It was not abou"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3045.22,"endTime":3047.44,"body":"having that kind of connection"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3045.22,"endTime":3047.44,"body":"And from what I understand thi"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3047.44,"endTime":3050.83,"body":"is sometimes issue in mixe"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3047.44,"endTime":3050.83,"body":"orientation marriages. Yeah"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3050.89,"endTime":3053.5,"body":"because sometimes th"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3050.89,"endTime":3053.5,"body":"heterosexual partner is the on"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3053.5,"endTime":3056.56,"body":"who's really been cheated no"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3053.5,"endTime":3056.56,"body":"because of the sex, but becaus"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3056.86,"endTime":3060.76,"body":"she or he doesn't feel as full"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3056.86,"endTime":3060.76,"body":"loved and cherished. Becaus"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3060.76,"endTime":3064.12,"body":"that's just not in that makeup"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3060.76,"endTime":3064.12,"body":"And yet, I've heard of som"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3064.12,"endTime":3066.76,"body":"people speaking about thei"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3064.12,"endTime":3066.76,"body":"sexuality as a gift"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3073.35,"endTime":3076.83,"body":"people. You know, sometimes we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3073.35,"endTime":3076.83,"body":"don't have time to go into the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3076.83,"endTime":3078.96,"body":"exegesis of this, but 1"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3076.83,"endTime":3078.96,"body":"Corinthians 7, there's that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3078.96,"endTime":3081.9,"body":"wonderful, wonderfully"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3078.96,"endTime":3081.9,"body":"complicated thing where Paul"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3081.9,"endTime":3084.33,"body":"seems to be advocating celibacy,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3081.9,"endTime":3084.33,"body":"and it's unclear what is going"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3084.33,"endTime":3086.52,"body":"on. It says, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3084.33,"endTime":3086.52,"body":"married man is careful about the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3086.52,"endTime":3088.71,"body":"things of his wife. The"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3086.52,"endTime":3088.71,"body":"unmarried man cares about the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3088.71,"endTime":3090.69,"body":"things the Lord like I said, we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3088.71,"endTime":3090.69,"body":"don't have time to text Jesus."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3090.69,"endTime":3093.09,"body":"But the Greek word there"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3090.69,"endTime":3093.09,"body":"\"marrymanahoh\", doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3093.09,"endTime":3097.02,"body":"careful. It means anxious to the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3093.09,"endTime":3097.02,"body":"point of distraction. And what"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3097.02,"endTime":3100.92,"body":"he's actually saying is a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3097.02,"endTime":3100.92,"body":"married man can be so anxious"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3100.95,"endTime":3104.13,"body":"and worried about pleasing his"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3100.95,"endTime":3104.13,"body":"wife, he's not giving enough"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3104.13,"endTime":3106.83,"body":"attention to God. Well, the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3104.13,"endTime":3106.83,"body":"celibate person can be so"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3106.83,"endTime":3110.07,"body":"worried about displeasing god,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3106.83,"endTime":3110.07,"body":"he's not pleasing God either. I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3110.07,"endTime":3112.32,"body":"mean, what Paul's actually"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3110.07,"endTime":3112.32,"body":"saying in 1 Corinthians 7 is"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3112.47,"endTime":3116.16,"body":"either extreme is wrong, that we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3112.47,"endTime":3116.16,"body":"should always be outward looking"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3116.55,"endTime":3120.78,"body":"\"A\" to God, but \"B\" to our"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3116.55,"endTime":3120.78,"body":"fellow men and women. And I have"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3120.78,"endTime":3125.46,"body":"had friends share with me that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3120.78,"endTime":3125.46,"body":"the the love and the camaraderie"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3125.46,"endTime":3129.42,"body":"and the companionship and the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3125.46,"endTime":3129.42,"body":"caring, and the creativity, and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3129.42,"endTime":3131.94,"body":"the other things they feel,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3129.42,"endTime":3131.94,"body":"which is they see as part of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3131.94,"endTime":3135.24,"body":"their sexuality is something"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3131.94,"endTime":3135.24,"body":"they wouldn't give up. You know,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3135.24,"endTime":3137.25,"body":"even if they were given the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3135.24,"endTime":3137.25,"body":"opportunity to flip the switch"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3137.25,"endTime":3139.89,"body":"and have the mixed orientation"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3137.25,"endTime":3139.89,"body":"marriage or be able to function"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3139.89,"endTime":3142.62,"body":"sexually in a marriage, they"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3139.89,"endTime":3142.62,"body":"wouldn't want to give up all the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3142.62,"endTime":3145.35,"body":"positive benefits of what"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3142.62,"endTime":3145.35,"body":"they've discovered about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3145.35,"endTime":3148.8,"body":"themselves. And that's what I'm"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3145.35,"endTime":3148.8,"body":"trying to listen to more and be"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3148.8,"endTime":3152.43,"body":"more open to. I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3148.8,"endTime":3152.43,"body":"any of that is useful for you or"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3152.43,"endTime":3153.6,"body":"your audience to hear. But..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3153.96,"endTime":3155.49,"body":"Thank you Eric. Can ask you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3153.96,"endTime":3155.49,"body":"a question about your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3155.49,"endTime":3156.06,"body":"devotional?"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3156.12,"endTime":3156.81,"body":"Oh, yeah, sure."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3156.81,"endTime":3159.54,"body":"So I just listened to it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3156.81,"endTime":3159.54,"body":"right before before he came"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3159.54,"endTime":3162.57,"body":"over. And you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3159.54,"endTime":3162.57,"body":"something that Jesus said to the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3162.66,"endTime":3164.76,"body":"young rich man, and..."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3164.79,"endTime":3167.25,"body":"Oh, yeah, and he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3164.79,"endTime":3167.25,"body":"and he goes away sorrowing. And"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3167.25,"endTime":3169.41,"body":"and Jesus beholding him loves"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3167.25,"endTime":3169.41,"body":"him. Is that the passage?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3169.41,"endTime":3171.96,"body":"Yeah. Pull that apart for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3169.41,"endTime":3171.96,"body":"us?"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3172.5,"endTime":3174.3,"body":"Yeah. So this is,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3172.5,"endTime":3174.3,"body":"of course, a passage which"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3174.3,"endTime":3178.35,"body":"appears in all three synoptics"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3174.3,"endTime":3178.35,"body":"that, you know, a rich young man"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3178.35,"endTime":3181.41,"body":"comes up to Jesus and says, what"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3178.35,"endTime":3181.41,"body":"should I have eternal life? And"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3181.41,"endTime":3184.44,"body":"he says, what are the what was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3181.41,"endTime":3184.44,"body":"Moses tell you this as well, you"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3184.44,"endTime":3188.25,"body":"know, to love God, and to keep"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3184.44,"endTime":3188.25,"body":"the commandments and not steal"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3188.25,"endTime":3190.77,"body":"and do all these other things."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3188.25,"endTime":3190.77,"body":"And the man says, I've done this"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3190.77,"endTime":3194.58,"body":"to my youth. And then And Jesus"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3190.77,"endTime":3194.58,"body":"says, you know, one thing do you"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3194.58,"endTime":3197.46,"body":"have left to do sell all you"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3194.58,"endTime":3197.46,"body":"have and come follow me? And he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3197.46,"endTime":3200.01,"body":"goes away sorrowing. And that's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3197.46,"endTime":3200.01,"body":"all Matthew and Luke say about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3200.01,"endTime":3202.89,"body":"it. But Mark, which,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3200.01,"endTime":3202.89,"body":"theoretically, is the earliest"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3202.89,"endTime":3207.36,"body":"version of this, Has Jesus say,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3202.89,"endTime":3207.36,"body":"look, beholding him love him. I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3207.36,"endTime":3209.4,"body":"actually learned this from"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3207.36,"endTime":3209.4,"body":"Elaine Elaine said, you know,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3210.09,"endTime":3213.6,"body":"Jesus loved that man, even"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3210.09,"endTime":3213.6,"body":"though at that point, he wasn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3213.6,"endTime":3220.08,"body":"willing, or able to do the most,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3213.6,"endTime":3220.08,"body":"sell everything and follow Him."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3220.89,"endTime":3227.67,"body":"Elaine said, he still loved him."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3220.89,"endTime":3227.67,"body":"And how do we not know that a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3227.67,"endTime":3232.41,"body":"month, a year, 10 years later,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3227.67,"endTime":3232.41,"body":"he eventually did it. You know,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3232.41,"endTime":3236.88,"body":"and this is the whole judging"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3232.41,"endTime":3236.88,"body":"thing, right? So sometimes we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3236.88,"endTime":3239.58,"body":"get in trouble when we talk"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3236.88,"endTime":3239.58,"body":"about loving our fellow men."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3240.18,"endTime":3245.97,"body":"When we love other people it's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3240.18,"endTime":3245.97,"body":"not that we're not, we're loving"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3245.97,"endTime":3249.69,"body":"them more than we love God. And"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3245.97,"endTime":3249.69,"body":"I teach John. So I know all"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3249.69,"endTime":3252.24,"body":"about if you love me keep my"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3249.69,"endTime":3252.24,"body":"commandments. In fact, in Greek,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3252.24,"endTime":3255.9,"body":"it's even stronger. The word the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3252.24,"endTime":3255.9,"body":"verb \"toreo\" means to stand on"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3255.9,"endTime":3262.35,"body":"watch, to guard to keep to await"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3255.9,"endTime":3262.35,"body":"instructions. So if you love"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3262.35,"endTime":3264.69,"body":"Jesus, you're just waiting."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3262.35,"endTime":3264.69,"body":"You're just not keeping the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3264.69,"endTime":3266.88,"body":"commandments he's giving you,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3264.69,"endTime":3266.88,"body":"you're waiting for more. So I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3267.03,"endTime":3270.09,"body":"fully believe that loving God"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3267.03,"endTime":3270.09,"body":"means keeping His commandments,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3270.3,"endTime":3273.75,"body":"which in my case includes"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3270.3,"endTime":3273.75,"body":"teaching my children and my"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3273.75,"endTime":3277.2,"body":"students and anyone who listened"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3273.75,"endTime":3277.2,"body":"with those commandments are, but"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3277.2,"endTime":3280.17,"body":"I don't think we need to make"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3277.2,"endTime":3280.17,"body":"this dichotomy that if we love"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3280.17,"endTime":3283.44,"body":"someone who makes a different"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3280.17,"endTime":3283.44,"body":"choice, that we're somehow not"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3283.44,"endTime":3284.07,"body":"loving God."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3284.13,"endTime":3286.89,"body":"And I just love that idea"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3284.13,"endTime":3286.89,"body":"that you know that Jesus had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3286.89,"endTime":3289.71,"body":"just told him to do something,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3286.89,"endTime":3289.71,"body":"and then he didn't do it. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3289.71,"endTime":3291.0,"body":"Jesus loved him in that moment."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3291.0,"endTime":3294.57,"body":"In that moment."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3291.0,"endTime":3294.57,"body":"In that moment, and you know, in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3294.57,"endTime":3297.66,"body":"that devotional I talked a lot"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3294.57,"endTime":3297.66,"body":"about the passage in Galatians."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3297.66,"endTime":3301.17,"body":"And there are parallels and in 1"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3297.66,"endTime":3301.17,"body":"Corinthians and Ephesians, as"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3301.17,"endTime":3305.97,"body":"well, but also in 2 Nephi, about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3301.17,"endTime":3305.97,"body":"with God, there's not male or"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3305.97,"endTime":3311.52,"body":"female, black or white bond or"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3305.97,"endTime":3311.52,"body":"free, all are alike to Christ."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3311.82,"endTime":3314.37,"body":"And you know, once again early"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3311.82,"endTime":3314.37,"body":"on where the Scriptures say"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3314.37,"endTime":3318.12,"body":"about homosexuality, nothing"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3314.37,"endTime":3318.12,"body":"about orientation. But what the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3318.12,"endTime":3322.59,"body":"Scriptures do say is that who"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3318.12,"endTime":3322.59,"body":"you are, shouldn't make a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3322.59,"endTime":3326.22,"body":"difference. You know, there are"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3322.59,"endTime":3326.22,"body":"things you can't change. And so"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3326.25,"endTime":3330.06,"body":"those things that people"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3326.25,"endTime":3330.06,"body":"couldn't change, didn't matter."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3330.06,"endTime":3334.38,"body":"If you couldn't change it, that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3330.06,"endTime":3334.38,"body":"wasn't your problem. You were"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3334.38,"endTime":3337.08,"body":"still part of the body of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3334.38,"endTime":3337.08,"body":"Christ, you were all alike to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3337.08,"endTime":3341.85,"body":"God. And now that we no longer"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3337.08,"endTime":3341.85,"body":"say, as I was told, growing up,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3341.88,"endTime":3345.36,"body":"that your sexuality was a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3341.88,"endTime":3345.36,"body":"choice, then we could add"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3345.36,"endTime":3349.74,"body":"another phrase to that male or"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3345.36,"endTime":3349.74,"body":"female, black or white bond or"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3349.74,"endTime":3353.79,"body":"free, gay or straight. The"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3349.74,"endTime":3353.79,"body":"things you can't change you're"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3353.79,"endTime":3358.02,"body":"not responsible for. But you are"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3353.79,"endTime":3358.02,"body":"still called, you know, once"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3358.02,"endTime":3361.14,"body":"again, what does Jesus say about"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3358.02,"endTime":3361.14,"body":"how we love each other in that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3361.14,"endTime":3367.38,"body":"passage in Luke? Sorry, I don't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3361.14,"endTime":3367.38,"body":"have my scriptures."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3367.38,"endTime":3369.63,"body":"If you don't know the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3367.38,"endTime":3369.63,"body":"answer, just say, Jesus, Jesus."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3370.41,"endTime":3373.02,"body":"When the woman"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3370.41,"endTime":3373.02,"body":"comes in, oh, it's Luke 7. I'm"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3373.02,"endTime":3375.54,"body":"sorry. It's right before Yes,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3373.02,"endTime":3375.54,"body":"Luke 7. So it's the end of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3375.54,"endTime":3378.39,"body":"chapter seven, when Jesus says"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3375.54,"endTime":3378.39,"body":"at the home of Simon, the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3378.39,"endTime":3381.93,"body":"pharisee and the woman who was a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3378.39,"endTime":3381.93,"body":"sinner came in, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3381.93,"endTime":3385.08,"body":"cries and washes his feet. And I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3381.93,"endTime":3385.08,"body":"hate the title that that story"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3385.08,"endTime":3386.79,"body":"is not the woman is a sinner."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3385.08,"endTime":3386.79,"body":"Why don't we remember the good"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3386.79,"endTime":3390.27,"body":"thing, the woman who loved much"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3386.79,"endTime":3390.27,"body":"right, and everyone's aghast"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3390.27,"endTime":3393.39,"body":"that this woman who was quote"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3390.27,"endTime":3393.39,"body":"unquote, a sinner came in to the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3393.39,"endTime":3396.06,"body":"dinner party? Because in the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3393.39,"endTime":3396.06,"body":"ancient world, this is another"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3396.06,"endTime":3398.73,"body":"big word I can throw out for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3396.06,"endTime":3398.73,"body":"you. It's called Commenciality,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3398.76,"endTime":3401.49,"body":"who do you eat with, because in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3398.76,"endTime":3401.49,"body":"the ancient world, who you ate"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3401.49,"endTime":3405.06,"body":"with had to do with"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3401.49,"endTime":3405.06,"body":"relationships, family, honor,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3405.48,"endTime":3408.57,"body":"and you wouldn't eat with"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3405.48,"endTime":3408.57,"body":"someone from the outside or a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3408.57,"endTime":3413.37,"body":"Gentile or lower class or"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3408.57,"endTime":3413.37,"body":"dishonorable or a sinner. But"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3413.37,"endTime":3418.65,"body":"Jesus ignored that. Everyone's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3413.37,"endTime":3418.65,"body":"welcome at the table, including"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3418.83,"endTime":3422.04,"body":"the Pharisees, including the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3418.83,"endTime":3422.04,"body":"self righteous, right? It's not"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3422.04,"endTime":3425.01,"body":"the publicans and sinners that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3422.04,"endTime":3425.01,"body":"He's inviting in. He's inviting"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3425.01,"endTime":3427.92,"body":"everyone, the righteous, the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3425.01,"endTime":3427.92,"body":"unrighteous, the self righteous."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3428.4,"endTime":3431.61,"body":"And that's the table. You know,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3428.4,"endTime":3431.61,"body":"we've got this wonderful image"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3431.61,"endTime":3433.71,"body":"each week, particularly now that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3431.61,"endTime":3433.71,"body":"we can start coming back to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3433.71,"endTime":3437.19,"body":"sacrament meeting, the pandemic"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3433.71,"endTime":3437.19,"body":"wanes, that we gather around the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3437.19,"endTime":3438.87,"body":"sacrament table, you know, our"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3437.19,"endTime":3438.87,"body":"Protestant friends call it"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3438.87,"endTime":3441.33,"body":"communion. And I used to always"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3438.87,"endTime":3441.33,"body":"think that was because we're"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3441.33,"endTime":3443.52,"body":"communing with the Lord, right."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3441.33,"endTime":3443.52,"body":"We're taking the bread and water"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3443.52,"endTime":3445.38,"body":"and we're thinking about what"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3443.52,"endTime":3445.38,"body":"Jesus has done for us and we're"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3445.38,"endTime":3448.77,"body":"feeling the spirit. But it's"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3445.38,"endTime":3448.77,"body":"also reenacting the Last Supper,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3448.77,"endTime":3451.8,"body":"Jesus was with the family he"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3448.77,"endTime":3451.8,"body":"chose, his friends, his"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3451.8,"endTime":3455.76,"body":"disciples gathered around"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3451.8,"endTime":3455.76,"body":"sharing bread and wine. And we"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3455.76,"endTime":3459.12,"body":"gather as a ward family, or a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3455.76,"endTime":3459.12,"body":"church family or a group of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3459.12,"endTime":3462.96,"body":"friends. And we're, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3459.12,"endTime":3462.96,"body":"matter if we're black or white"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3462.96,"endTime":3467.22,"body":"male or female, under free,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3462.96,"endTime":3467.22,"body":"straight or gay, we are part of"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3467.22,"endTime":3470.34,"body":"the family of God. And you"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3467.22,"endTime":3470.34,"body":"mentioned that devotional I was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3470.34,"endTime":3474.48,"body":"sharing this with you before."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3470.34,"endTime":3474.48,"body":"Some months after that I had an"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3474.51,"endTime":3476.97,"body":"old lady who was doing a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3474.51,"endTime":3476.97,"body":"fireside in Orem. I don't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3476.97,"endTime":3479.88,"body":"remember what the occasion was."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3476.97,"endTime":3479.88,"body":"And she came up to me afterwards"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3479.88,"endTime":3484.5,"body":"and said, she had a grandson who"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3479.88,"endTime":3484.5,"body":"had come out. And his parents"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3484.5,"endTime":3486.9,"body":"had rejected him. And he said,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3484.5,"endTime":3486.9,"body":"we haven't had anything to do"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3486.9,"endTime":3490.44,"body":"with my grandson for, you know,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3486.9,"endTime":3490.44,"body":"months and months. And when I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3490.44,"endTime":3493.02,"body":"saw the devotional and talked"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3490.44,"endTime":3493.02,"body":"about how we should love and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3493.02,"endTime":3496.14,"body":"reach out, I talked to my"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3493.02,"endTime":3496.14,"body":"daughter, and we had a"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3496.14,"endTime":3500.37,"body":"discussion. And it gave her the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3496.14,"endTime":3500.37,"body":"words to say to her husband, and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3500.37,"endTime":3503.46,"body":"now we have our grandson back in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3500.37,"endTime":3503.46,"body":"our family. And it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3503.46,"endTime":3505.83,"body":"anything I said it was just"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3503.46,"endTime":3505.83,"body":"preaching Jesus, it was just"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3505.83,"endTime":3508.29,"body":"sharing the principles of the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3505.83,"endTime":3508.29,"body":"gospel. And you know, in that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3508.29,"endTime":3510.0,"body":"devotional, I don't know if any"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3508.29,"endTime":3510.0,"body":"of your listeners want to go"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3510.0,"endTime":3513.39,"body":"back and watch that it was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3510.0,"endTime":3513.39,"body":"August 2018. I just use"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3513.39,"endTime":3516.93,"body":"scriptures and the words of the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3513.39,"endTime":3516.93,"body":"Relief Society President, Elder"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3516.93,"endTime":3519.12,"body":"uchtdorf and Elder Holland and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3516.93,"endTime":3519.12,"body":"President Ballard, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3519.12,"endTime":3520.95,"body":"was all straight from the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3519.12,"endTime":3520.95,"body":"scriptures and the modern"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3520.95,"endTime":3525.09,"body":"authorities. Once again, for"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3520.95,"endTime":3525.09,"body":"those of us who aren't judges in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3525.09,"endTime":3528.39,"body":"Israel, if I'm not your Bishop"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3525.09,"endTime":3528.39,"body":"or Stake President, your"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3528.39,"endTime":3531.75,"body":"behavior is not my concern."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3528.39,"endTime":3531.75,"body":"Unless you're a common judge in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3531.75,"endTime":3537.63,"body":"Israel. Don't even go there with"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3531.75,"endTime":3537.63,"body":"behavior. Love, accept. And as"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3537.63,"endTime":3542.46,"body":"Tom has said, wow, you know,"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3537.63,"endTime":3542.46,"body":"because not only his family, but"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3542.46,"endTime":3545.52,"body":"that New Canaan ward in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3542.46,"endTime":3545.52,"body":"Connecticut was so loving. It"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3545.52,"endTime":3548.13,"body":"gave him the chance to come"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3545.52,"endTime":3548.13,"body":"back. Whenever we push people"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3548.13,"endTime":3551.07,"body":"away. We're completely"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3548.13,"endTime":3551.07,"body":"destroying the chances that"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3551.07,"endTime":3555.12,"body":"they'll come back or want to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3551.07,"endTime":3555.12,"body":"stay. Anyway, thanks for having"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3555.12,"endTime":3557.55,"body":"me. I'm sorry. I talked so long"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3555.12,"endTime":3557.55,"body":"and use big words."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3558.18,"endTime":3561.33,"body":"Well, Eric, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3558.18,"endTime":3561.33,"body":"much for coming for sharing your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3561.33,"endTime":3564.69,"body":"expertise. And I mean, you use"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3561.33,"endTime":3564.69,"body":"words I've never heard and said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3564.69,"endTime":3565.8,"body":"all kinds of things I didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3564.69,"endTime":3565.8,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3566.04,"endTime":3569.16,"body":"But we all knew"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3566.04,"endTime":3569.16,"body":"the name Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3569.16,"endTime":3570.33,"body":"that's the master."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3570.39,"endTime":3572.31,"body":"So Charlie, what do the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3570.39,"endTime":3572.31,"body":"scriptures say about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3572.31,"endTime":3573.12,"body":"homosexuality?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3574.08,"endTime":3576.21,"body":"Whatever I want them"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3574.08,"endTime":3576.21,"body":"to. No, they say Jesus."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3577.65,"endTime":3579.57,"body":"Scriptures never"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3577.65,"endTime":3579.57,"body":"say whatever you want them to"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3579.57,"endTime":3579.99,"body":"say."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3580.08,"endTime":3581.61,"body":"I just wanted to see"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3580.08,"endTime":3581.61,"body":"Ben's face."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3582.36,"endTime":3585.27,"body":"The scriptures"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3582.36,"endTime":3585.27,"body":"talk about behaviors, but the"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3585.27,"endTime":3587.52,"body":"Scriptures tell us Jesus loves"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3585.27,"endTime":3587.52,"body":"us."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3587.55,"endTime":3589.71,"body":"No, that this was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3587.55,"endTime":3589.71,"body":"really helpful. Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3589.71,"endTime":3593.04,"body":"bringing your expertise and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3589.71,"endTime":3593.04,"body":"yeah, like I have a lot of food"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3593.04,"endTime":3593.76,"body":"for thought I'm gonna go..."},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3593.76,"endTime":3596.19,"body":"And I hope it was"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3593.76,"endTime":3596.19,"body":"useful. And if I if I said"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3596.19,"endTime":3598.02,"body":"anything that was hurtful today"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3596.19,"endTime":3598.02,"body":"for any of your listeners or"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3598.02,"endTime":3601.08,"body":"triggered anyone, I'm sorry, I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3598.02,"endTime":3601.08,"body":"know that sometimes those of us"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3601.08,"endTime":3604.23,"body":"in the outside or like bulls in"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3601.08,"endTime":3604.23,"body":"a teapot, China cap, whatever"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3604.23,"endTime":3608.52,"body":"the phrase is China shop. And"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3604.23,"endTime":3608.52,"body":"sometimes we say things that are"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3608.52,"endTime":3611.79,"body":"very easy for us to say. And I"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3608.52,"endTime":3611.79,"body":"know it's not always easy, and"},{"speaker":"Eric Hunstman","startTime":3611.79,"endTime":3612.36,"body":"I'm sorry."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3612.78,"endTime":3614.31,"body":"Thank you. Thank you so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3612.78,"endTime":3614.31,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3615.57,"endTime":3617.94,"body":"Thank you for joining us today."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3615.57,"endTime":3617.94,"body":"If you've enjoyed this or other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3617.94,"endTime":3620.31,"body":"episodes, please consider"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3617.94,"endTime":3620.31,"body":"leaving a review, following us"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3620.31,"endTime":3623.55,"body":"on Instagram or Facebook at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3620.31,"endTime":3623.55,"body":"questions from the closet, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3623.55,"endTime":3626.4,"body":"sharing this podcast with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3623.55,"endTime":3626.4,"body":"someone you love. And as always,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3626.4,"endTime":3628.74,"body":"please remember that we do not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3626.4,"endTime":3628.74,"body":"represent the Church of Jesus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3628.74,"endTime":3631.44,"body":"Christ of Latter-day Saints or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3628.74,"endTime":3631.44,"body":"Brigham Young University. We are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3631.44,"endTime":3633.72,"body":"not trying to be prescriptive or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3631.44,"endTime":3633.72,"body":"tell anyone what to think or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3633.72,"endTime":3634.23,"body":"what to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3634.62,"endTime":3637.41,"body":"You heard three perspectives and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3634.62,"endTime":3637.41,"body":"there are many, many more. We"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3637.41,"endTime":3640.14,"body":"encourage you to listen to other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3637.41,"endTime":3640.14,"body":"voices and hear a wide variety o"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3640.14,"endTime":3642.99,"body":"experiences. If you would lik"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3640.14,"endTime":3642.99,"body":"to submit a question or share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3642.99,"endTime":3645.96,"body":"comment about today's episode"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3642.99,"endTime":3645.96,"body":"you can email us at question"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3645.96,"endTime":3648.87,"body":"fromthecloset@gmail.com. Until n"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3645.96,"endTime":3648.87,"body":"xt time."}]}