{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":9.93,"endTime":12.42,"body":"Welcome to Questions From"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":9.93,"endTime":12.42,"body":"the Closet. I'm Ben Schilaty."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":12.51,"endTime":19.68,"body":"And I'm Charlie Bird."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":12.51,"endTime":19.68,"body":"So for over about a little over"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":19.68,"endTime":22.11,"body":"a year now we've been discussing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":19.68,"endTime":22.11,"body":"questions we commonly get asked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":22.11,"endTime":24.21,"body":"as LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":25.02,"endTime":26.85,"body":"We don't try to answer"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":25.02,"endTime":26.85,"body":"these questions or come to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":26.85,"endTime":29.37,"body":"consensus, but simply share our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":26.85,"endTime":29.37,"body":"perspectives. Today will be a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":29.37,"endTime":32.16,"body":"live Q\u0026A with topics from a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":29.37,"endTime":32.16,"body":"selection of questions submitted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":32.16,"endTime":33.36,"body":"by the listeners."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":34.5,"endTime":37.26,"body":"So Ben and I are not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":34.5,"endTime":37.26,"body":"terribly diverse, and we share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":37.26,"endTime":40.14,"body":"many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":37.26,"endTime":40.14,"body":"experiences. For example, we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":40.14,"endTime":42.54,"body":"both super excited to be kicking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":40.14,"endTime":42.54,"body":"off season two with this live"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":42.54,"endTime":42.84,"body":"event."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":43.74,"endTime":45.48,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":43.74,"endTime":45.48,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":45.48,"endTime":49.77,"body":"example, Charlie wanted to do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":45.48,"endTime":49.77,"body":"this, and I didn't want to. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.77,"endTime":55.8,"body":"then he convinced me to plan the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.77,"endTime":55.8,"body":"whole thing. So, so most of what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":55.8,"endTime":58.59,"body":"you see is my doing this and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":55.8,"endTime":58.59,"body":"mostly recruiting other people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":58.59,"endTime":60.24,"body":"to help. So here we are for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":58.59,"endTime":60.24,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":60.36,"endTime":65.67,"body":"I showed up 15 minutes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":60.36,"endTime":65.67,"body":"late. So as you know, we like to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.67,"endTime":68.01,"body":"provide a variety of voices and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.67,"endTime":68.01,"body":"perspectives. And tonight, we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":68.01,"endTime":70.2,"body":"joined by Sarah Kelly Langford,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":68.01,"endTime":70.2,"body":"who will help us move through"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":70.2,"endTime":72.93,"body":"the questions as our moderator."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":70.2,"endTime":72.93,"body":"So Sarah, it's all yours."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":73.26,"endTime":76.05,"body":"Great. So if you haven't"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":73.26,"endTime":76.05,"body":"listened to my two episodes, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":76.05,"endTime":79.14,"body":"not hurt by that. But just in"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":76.05,"endTime":79.14,"body":"case, go ahead and listen to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":79.14,"endTime":84.69,"body":"them. Let me make sure I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":79.14,"endTime":84.69,"body":"it's okay, Episode 25 and 38. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":84.69,"endTime":89.43,"body":"make a note, all right. So my"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":84.69,"endTime":89.43,"body":"name is Sarah Langford. I've"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":89.43,"endTime":92.85,"body":"been friends with Ben and"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":89.43,"endTime":92.85,"body":"Charlie now for a few years, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":93.15,"endTime":96.12,"body":"I'm a bisexual woman. I'm in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":93.15,"endTime":96.12,"body":"mixed orientation marriage. My"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":96.12,"endTime":98.01,"body":"husband's over there. Hey,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":96.12,"endTime":98.01,"body":"Brandon, give a little wave."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":98.79,"endTime":105.12,"body":"Right. So cute. And I'm really"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":98.79,"endTime":105.12,"body":"excited to be here. I think they"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":105.12,"endTime":107.91,"body":"asked me to do this because they"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":105.12,"endTime":107.91,"body":"didn't want to pay anyone else."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":110.9,"endTime":112.4,"body":"We literally couldn't pay"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":110.9,"endTime":112.4,"body":"anyone so..."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":115.18,"endTime":116.32,"body":"So it was really"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":115.18,"endTime":116.32,"body":"interesting..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":116.32,"endTime":117.28,"body":"It's like a laugh"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":116.32,"endTime":117.28,"body":"track."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":121.89,"endTime":126.0,"body":"I mean, like that, record"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":121.89,"endTime":126.0,"body":"it for the podcast, I guess. It"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":126.0,"endTime":128.43,"body":"was really interesting looking"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":126.0,"endTime":128.43,"body":"at all these questions. So first"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":128.43,"endTime":131.76,"body":"of all, applause for all of you"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":128.43,"endTime":131.76,"body":"guys for submitting so many just"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":131.76,"endTime":135.84,"body":"over 130 questions were"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":131.76,"endTime":135.84,"body":"submitted. Pretty impressive. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":135.84,"endTime":139.35,"body":"as you can see, reasonably, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":135.84,"endTime":139.35,"body":"hope that we would not be able"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":139.35,"endTime":144.15,"body":"to get to all 130 questions, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":139.35,"endTime":144.15,"body":"I've tried my best to try to ask"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":144.15,"endTime":146.7,"body":"questions that covers a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":144.15,"endTime":146.7,"body":"these. But if your question"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":146.7,"endTime":150.33,"body":"isn't answered, we will get to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":146.7,"endTime":150.33,"body":"it. Eventually. The questions"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":150.33,"endTime":152.67,"body":"aren't answered. We're going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":150.33,"endTime":152.67,"body":"post later on the website with"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":152.67,"endTime":155.28,"body":"the correlating episode that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":152.67,"endTime":155.28,"body":"might also be able to help you"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":155.28,"endTime":159.66,"body":"answer. It might take some time,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":155.28,"endTime":159.66,"body":"but it will be there. So let's"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":159.66,"endTime":166.02,"body":"get started with a soft one. All"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":159.66,"endTime":166.02,"body":"right? Ben, and, Charlie, what"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":166.02,"endTime":167.79,"body":"have you learned since starting"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":166.02,"endTime":167.79,"body":"this podcast?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":169.7,"endTime":173.9,"body":"I'll go first because I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":169.7,"endTime":173.9,"body":"the tallest. But barely. I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":173.9,"endTime":175.79,"body":"learned an awful lot. So I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":173.9,"endTime":175.79,"body":"actually brought my journal but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":175.79,"endTime":178.73,"body":"I left over there. So I'll just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":175.79,"endTime":178.73,"body":"quote what it says. But I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":178.73,"endTime":181.07,"body":"going to read an entry for my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":178.73,"endTime":181.07,"body":"journal the day that I decided"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":181.07,"endTime":184.25,"body":"to start this podcast. And my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":181.07,"endTime":184.25,"body":"friend Lisa just randomly"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":184.25,"endTime":187.49,"body":"messaged me and said I should"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":184.25,"endTime":187.49,"body":"start a podcast. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":187.55,"endTime":190.49,"body":"I don't want to do that. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":187.55,"endTime":190.49,"body":"actually went through my our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":190.52,"endTime":192.86,"body":"messages to see what we had said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":190.52,"endTime":192.86,"body":"back back and forth to each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":192.86,"endTime":197.09,"body":"other. And I said, Maybe I'll"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":192.86,"endTime":197.09,"body":"consider it. And then I went to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":197.09,"endTime":199.64,"body":"church and was hanging out my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":197.09,"endTime":199.64,"body":"friend, Deb. And I, we were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":199.64,"endTime":201.98,"body":"passing notes back and forth"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":199.64,"endTime":201.98,"body":"during church about the podcast."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":201.98,"endTime":203.48,"body":"I just kept thinking about it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":201.98,"endTime":203.48,"body":"just felt like the right thing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":203.48,"endTime":207.05,"body":"to do. And as I read my journal"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":203.48,"endTime":207.05,"body":"entry from that day, earlier"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":207.05,"endTime":210.02,"body":"today, one of the things I said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":207.05,"endTime":210.02,"body":"was, you know, I just finished"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":210.05,"endTime":213.53,"body":"the first, the first version of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":210.05,"endTime":213.53,"body":"my manuscript of my book, and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":213.53,"endTime":215.99,"body":"thought, so what is the next"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":213.53,"endTime":215.99,"body":"thing like, what is the next"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":215.99,"endTime":218.81,"body":"thing I can do to build Zion? I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":215.99,"endTime":218.81,"body":"thought maybe this is maybe this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":218.81,"endTime":222.14,"body":"podcast is the next thing. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":218.81,"endTime":222.14,"body":"so one of the things I've really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":222.14,"endTime":225.38,"body":"learned is, you know, we build"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":222.14,"endTime":225.38,"body":"Zion by sharing stories, and by"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":225.38,"endTime":227.33,"body":"getting to know one another's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":225.38,"endTime":227.33,"body":"hearts and minds, and I knew"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":227.33,"endTime":230.81,"body":"that beforehand. But as we've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":227.33,"endTime":230.81,"body":"done this podcast, I just really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":230.81,"endTime":234.95,"body":"seen the edification of Zion as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":230.81,"endTime":234.95,"body":"we share stories. And the other"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":234.95,"endTime":236.93,"body":"thing I've really learned is,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":234.95,"endTime":236.93,"body":"recently, I was giving a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":236.93,"endTime":241.31,"body":"fireside at UVU. And someone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":236.93,"endTime":241.31,"body":"asked how we deal with such an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":241.31,"endTime":244.22,"body":"uncertain future. And I said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":241.31,"endTime":244.22,"body":"something I hadn't said before,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":244.22,"endTime":245.9,"body":"which I think is really cool,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":244.22,"endTime":245.9,"body":"which I'm gonna tell you now."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":246.65,"endTime":248.72,"body":"Which is when we think about the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":246.65,"endTime":248.72,"body":"future and how uncertain it is,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":248.75,"endTime":251.51,"body":"that often gives us anxiety,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":248.75,"endTime":251.51,"body":"like things could be bad. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":251.51,"endTime":253.7,"body":"what I've learned through this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":251.51,"endTime":253.7,"body":"podcast is the future is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":253.7,"endTime":258.5,"body":"uncertain. But I get to see how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":253.7,"endTime":258.5,"body":"God is going to surprise me. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":258.53,"endTime":260.78,"body":"this podcast is one of the most"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":258.53,"endTime":260.78,"body":"important things in my life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":260.78,"endTime":264.35,"body":"right now. And if my friend Lisa"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":260.78,"endTime":264.35,"body":"hadn't asked me to do this, just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":264.35,"endTime":266.3,"body":"over a year and a half ago, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":264.35,"endTime":266.3,"body":"probably wouldn't have done it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":266.6,"endTime":268.52,"body":"And so one of things I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":266.6,"endTime":268.52,"body":"learned is that God is going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":268.52,"endTime":270.62,"body":"surprise me with beautiful"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":268.52,"endTime":270.62,"body":"things that I could have never"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":270.62,"endTime":272.6,"body":"anticipated. And so that's what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":270.62,"endTime":272.6,"body":"I've learned."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":274.76,"endTime":276.89,"body":"For me, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":274.76,"endTime":276.89,"body":"I've learned a lot about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":276.89,"endTime":280.46,"body":"creating the, like the change"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":276.89,"endTime":280.46,"body":"that you want to see in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":280.46,"endTime":283.94,"body":"world. And I say that because a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":280.46,"endTime":283.94,"body":"few years back, I had maybe told"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":283.94,"endTime":287.0,"body":"three people that I was gay, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":283.94,"endTime":287.0,"body":"I was like scouring for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":287.0,"endTime":290.03,"body":"resources and everything I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":287.0,"endTime":290.03,"body":"finding wasn't really like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":290.06,"endTime":293.3,"body":"resonating with me and it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":290.06,"endTime":293.3,"body":"what I was looking for. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":293.3,"endTime":297.44,"body":"remember one time I was I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":293.3,"endTime":297.44,"body":"driving from Provo to Texas to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":297.44,"endTime":299.63,"body":"visit family and then up to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":297.44,"endTime":299.63,"body":"Missouri and I was like, I have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":299.63,"endTime":304.25,"body":"like fourty hours and when we in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":299.63,"endTime":304.25,"body":"a car by myself and I spent a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":304.34,"endTime":307.88,"body":"good chunk of an entire day"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":304.34,"endTime":307.88,"body":"looking for a podcast that dealt"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":307.88,"endTime":311.33,"body":"with like faith and sexuality,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":307.88,"endTime":311.33,"body":"or even just like being gay in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":311.33,"endTime":315.59,"body":"general, and I really just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":311.33,"endTime":315.59,"body":"wasn't finding anything. And at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":315.59,"endTime":320.69,"body":"that moment, it didn't like even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":315.59,"endTime":320.69,"body":"occur to me that, like me seeing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":320.72,"endTime":324.95,"body":"this here and like what we've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":320.72,"endTime":324.95,"body":"created, through just Ben's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":324.95,"endTime":328.97,"body":"idea, seeing a need that wasn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":324.95,"endTime":328.97,"body":"filled, is mind blowing to me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":328.97,"endTime":333.47,"body":"And on top of that I, what,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":328.97,"endTime":333.47,"body":"really what I was looking for,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":333.98,"endTime":337.01,"body":"before that drive was something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":333.98,"endTime":337.01,"body":"to give me hope, something to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":337.01,"endTime":339.86,"body":"give me connection, something to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":337.01,"endTime":339.86,"body":"give me validation, something to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":339.86,"endTime":346.79,"body":"give me something secure. And,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":339.86,"endTime":346.79,"body":"as I've been blessed to co-host"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":346.79,"endTime":349.91,"body":"this podcast, I've met so many"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":346.79,"endTime":349.91,"body":"incredible people that have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":349.91,"endTime":354.05,"body":"given me hope. And we try really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":349.91,"endTime":354.05,"body":"hard to, to have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":354.05,"endTime":357.23,"body":"different types of guests with a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":354.05,"endTime":357.23,"body":"diversity and range of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":357.23,"endTime":361.07,"body":"experiences. And it's so cool to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":357.23,"endTime":361.07,"body":"see that all of them are happy,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":361.43,"endTime":365.0,"body":"and that there's happiness down"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":361.43,"endTime":365.0,"body":"all these paths. We've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":365.03,"endTime":368.78,"body":"interviewed people in same sex"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":365.03,"endTime":368.78,"body":"relationships, and they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":368.78,"endTime":371.78,"body":"happy. And we've interviewed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":368.78,"endTime":371.78,"body":"people who are single, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":371.78,"endTime":374.39,"body":"they're happy. We've interviewed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":371.78,"endTime":374.39,"body":"people in mixed orientation"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":374.39,"endTime":377.63,"body":"marriages, and they are happy."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":374.39,"endTime":377.63,"body":"And it's just so cool to see"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":377.63,"endTime":380.78,"body":"that when you're authentically"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":377.63,"endTime":380.78,"body":"yourself and living according to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":380.78,"endTime":384.86,"body":"your own values in a way that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":380.78,"endTime":384.86,"body":"like, is faith-filled and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":384.86,"endTime":388.28,"body":"connecting with God, you can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":384.86,"endTime":388.28,"body":"find happiness, and it's been so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":388.28,"endTime":391.19,"body":"necessary for me. And I'm just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":388.28,"endTime":391.19,"body":"so humbled that we can share a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":391.19,"endTime":392.75,"body":"piece of that with others."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":393.98,"endTime":395.87,"body":"Thank you, Ben and"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":393.98,"endTime":395.87,"body":"Charlie, I appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":396.6,"endTime":397.83,"body":"Thank you for the great"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":396.6,"endTime":397.83,"body":"question."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":401.16,"endTime":403.65,"body":"So I think it's fair to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":401.16,"endTime":403.65,"body":"say that even though you're very"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":403.65,"endTime":406.41,"body":"clear about the fact that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":403.65,"endTime":406.41,"body":"neither one of you were experts,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":406.41,"endTime":409.56,"body":"or all encompassing about these"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":406.41,"endTime":409.56,"body":"experiences at the intersection"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":409.56,"endTime":412.92,"body":"of faith, sexuality and gender"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":409.56,"endTime":412.92,"body":"identity, that a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":412.92,"endTime":417.99,"body":"look to you as relative experts,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":412.92,"endTime":417.99,"body":"or at least, you know, important"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":417.99,"endTime":422.4,"body":"people that know a lot of stuff."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":417.99,"endTime":422.4,"body":"Okay, so what have you learned?"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":422.4,"endTime":425.37,"body":"Have your opinions changed at"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":422.4,"endTime":425.37,"body":"all? Since the beginning? Has it"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":425.37,"endTime":425.97,"body":"shifted?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":426.59,"endTime":430.1,"body":"Yeah. So this is actually"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":426.59,"endTime":430.1,"body":"the hardest part of being public"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":430.1,"endTime":432.86,"body":"and sharing my story for me is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":430.1,"endTime":432.86,"body":"people thinking that their story"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":432.86,"endTime":436.13,"body":"should be like mine, that that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":432.86,"endTime":436.13,"body":"is really the hardest part. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":436.16,"endTime":440.3,"body":"I don't so much worry about that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":436.16,"endTime":440.3,"body":"with with the LGBTQ folks who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":440.33,"endTime":442.55,"body":"are members of the church,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":440.33,"endTime":442.55,"body":"because when I started my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":442.55,"endTime":444.83,"body":"support group in Tucson, my goal"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":442.55,"endTime":444.83,"body":"was to get everyone to stay in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":444.83,"endTime":448.43,"body":"the church, and almost no one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":444.83,"endTime":448.43,"body":"did, in that support group, but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":448.43,"endTime":452.12,"body":"I did, and I thought, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":448.43,"endTime":452.12,"body":"I can say stay, I can say be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":452.12,"endTime":453.86,"body":"like me, but they're not going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":452.12,"endTime":453.86,"body":"to do it anyway, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":453.86,"endTime":457.37,"body":"people are going to be who they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":453.86,"endTime":457.37,"body":"are no matter what. And so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":457.37,"endTime":461.54,"body":"just I share my story, I invite"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":457.37,"endTime":461.54,"body":"people to share theirs. And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":461.96,"endTime":464.0,"body":"I'm not so worried about people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":461.96,"endTime":464.0,"body":"trying to think that they should"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":464.0,"endTime":466.19,"body":"be like me, cuz I don't really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":464.0,"endTime":466.19,"body":"see that happening a ton. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":466.19,"endTime":470.3,"body":"also am just so explicit about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":466.19,"endTime":470.3,"body":"that. My big fear is for the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":470.3,"endTime":472.82,"body":"straight people who hear my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":470.3,"endTime":472.82,"body":"story, that they are going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":472.82,"endTime":476.57,"body":"think that my story can be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":472.82,"endTime":476.57,"body":"someone else's story. And that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":476.57,"endTime":479.36,"body":"just not the case. And I say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":476.57,"endTime":479.36,"body":"that a ton, like again, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":479.36,"endTime":482.06,"body":"again, and again and again. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":479.36,"endTime":482.06,"body":"I don't think I can ever say it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":482.06,"endTime":485.36,"body":"enough, because people are still"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":482.06,"endTime":485.36,"body":"gonna say that. And I remember a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":485.36,"endTime":487.52,"body":"good friend of mine, I probably"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":485.36,"endTime":487.52,"body":"mentioned this before, but but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":487.52,"endTime":492.47,"body":"his mom said to me, he told me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":487.52,"endTime":492.47,"body":"that his mom said to him, that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":492.47,"endTime":496.52,"body":"am everything that she wishes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":492.47,"endTime":496.52,"body":"her son could be. And that is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":496.52,"endTime":498.98,"body":"just so painful. Like that is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":496.52,"endTime":498.98,"body":"just so painful that people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":498.98,"endTime":502.79,"body":"wishing their kids could be like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":498.98,"endTime":502.79,"body":"me. And I don't I don't, I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":502.79,"endTime":505.97,"body":"want that. So that's my big"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":502.79,"endTime":505.97,"body":"hesitation in sharing my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":505.97,"endTime":508.88,"body":"stories. And as explicit as I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":505.97,"endTime":508.88,"body":"am, this is my story. People are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":508.88,"endTime":511.7,"body":"going to do that. And I really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":508.88,"endTime":511.7,"body":"try hard not to but I don't feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":511.7,"endTime":513.74,"body":"like that means I shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":511.7,"endTime":513.74,"body":"share my story. I think my story"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":513.74,"endTime":516.83,"body":"is still valid and worth"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":513.74,"endTime":516.83,"body":"sharing. I just hope that we all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":516.83,"endTime":519.47,"body":"can have enough humility and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":516.83,"endTime":519.47,"body":"openness to talk to the people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":519.47,"endTime":522.62,"body":"in our lives. And not just some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":519.47,"endTime":522.62,"body":"public figure like me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":524.64,"endTime":531.45,"body":"And what a public"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":524.64,"endTime":531.45,"body":"figure you are, Ben. By the way,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":531.45,"endTime":532.59,"body":"me and Ben are not dating."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":535.74,"endTime":536.28,"body":"He wishes."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":536.54,"endTime":543.08,"body":"Yeah, I do. It's I we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":536.54,"endTime":543.08,"body":"get a lot of questions. I bet"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":543.08,"endTime":546.95,"body":"maybe 30 of the questions were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":543.08,"endTime":546.95,"body":"if we're dating, just on the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":546.95,"endTime":554.9,"body":"down low. So I feel like one of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":546.95,"endTime":554.9,"body":"the one of the things I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":554.9,"endTime":558.53,"body":"learned a lot about myself. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":554.9,"endTime":558.53,"body":"maybe that sounds selfish, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":558.53,"endTime":563.12,"body":"it's it's been really cool to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":558.53,"endTime":563.12,"body":"look at my past through like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":563.12,"endTime":569.45,"body":"more mature adult lens and find"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":563.12,"endTime":569.45,"body":"themes in the way I develop and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":569.45,"endTime":572.36,"body":"learn about Christ in ways that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":569.45,"endTime":572.36,"body":"I get tripped up. And as I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":572.36,"endTime":575.99,"body":"talked to so many different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":572.36,"endTime":575.99,"body":"people, I can see how my path"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":575.99,"endTime":578.93,"body":"has gotten me to where I am. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":575.99,"endTime":578.93,"body":"I've been able to kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":579.98,"endTime":583.04,"body":"be better at trial and error, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":579.98,"endTime":583.04,"body":"think because I'm not where I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":583.04,"endTime":586.61,"body":"going to be and that's something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":583.04,"endTime":586.61,"body":"that the well first of all, when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":586.61,"endTime":590.33,"body":"I allowed myself to realize that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":586.61,"endTime":590.33,"body":"I'm like on a journey and I can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":590.33,"endTime":593.09,"body":"make choices and I can change my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":590.33,"endTime":593.09,"body":"mind and just move wherever I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":593.09,"endTime":596.06,"body":"want and trust God that opened"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":593.09,"endTime":596.06,"body":"up so many possibilities to me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":596.24,"endTime":601.22,"body":"and I feel much more healthy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":596.24,"endTime":601.22,"body":"doing that. But I think the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":601.22,"endTime":604.01,"body":"coolest thing is just like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":601.22,"endTime":604.01,"body":"said, talking to all of these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":604.01,"endTime":607.49,"body":"incredible people, these guests,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":604.01,"endTime":607.49,"body":"and I've learned what the word"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":607.52,"endTime":610.31,"body":"pansexual means. And I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":607.52,"endTime":610.31,"body":"learned what it's like for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":610.31,"endTime":612.92,"body":"someone to be asexual, and I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":610.31,"endTime":612.92,"body":"learned how I can be a better"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":612.92,"endTime":616.01,"body":"transgender ally. And I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":612.92,"endTime":616.01,"body":"learned about all of these like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":616.13,"endTime":619.79,"body":"little, they're not little,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":616.13,"endTime":619.79,"body":"they're important. But to me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":619.79,"endTime":624.44,"body":"they weren't at the forefront of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":619.79,"endTime":624.44,"body":"being LGBTQ+, because I'm the G."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":624.47,"endTime":626.6,"body":"And that's what's always right"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":624.47,"endTime":626.6,"body":"there in front of me, like how"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":626.6,"endTime":629.63,"body":"am I going to live as a gay man"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":626.6,"endTime":629.63,"body":"in this society, in this church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":629.63,"endTime":633.44,"body":"in this city. But by looking to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":629.63,"endTime":633.44,"body":"other people and their"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":633.44,"endTime":636.83,"body":"experiences, there's like, so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":633.44,"endTime":636.83,"body":"much. There's so many"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":636.83,"endTime":640.22,"body":"similarities and symmetries that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":636.83,"endTime":640.22,"body":"I can glean from. But at the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":640.22,"endTime":643.34,"body":"same time, it shifts my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":640.22,"endTime":643.34,"body":"attitudes, my actions, my words,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":643.34,"endTime":646.67,"body":"in a way that I hope can make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":643.34,"endTime":646.67,"body":"more space for other people. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":646.67,"endTime":647.75,"body":"that's been really nice."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":648.35,"endTime":650.63,"body":"And just one thing I want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":648.35,"endTime":650.63,"body":"to add, as longtime listeners"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":650.63,"endTime":653.33,"body":"might know, I answer the emails."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":650.63,"endTime":653.33,"body":"And so I get all the feedback on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":653.33,"endTime":657.35,"body":"the episodes, and you know, as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":653.33,"endTime":657.35,"body":"hard as we try to be educated"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":657.35,"endTime":660.53,"body":"and do things, right, we make a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":657.35,"endTime":660.53,"body":"lot of mistakes. And then people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":660.53,"endTime":662.84,"body":"email us and tell us those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":660.53,"endTime":662.84,"body":"mistakes, and then I read them."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":663.26,"endTime":666.14,"body":"And, and, and it has been really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":663.26,"endTime":666.14,"body":"good for me. So we did an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":666.14,"endTime":668.63,"body":"episode called Should I stay"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":666.14,"endTime":668.63,"body":"single and celibate. And I'd"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":668.63,"endTime":670.85,"body":"said something like, I'm not a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":668.63,"endTime":670.85,"body":"robot, I'm a human being like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":670.85,"endTime":673.43,"body":"of course, I want to be in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":670.85,"endTime":673.43,"body":"relationship with someone. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":673.43,"endTime":675.68,"body":"then someone emailed us and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":673.43,"endTime":675.68,"body":"said, I identify as asexual and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":675.68,"endTime":677.99,"body":"a romantic, I'm a human, and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":675.68,"endTime":677.99,"body":"do not want to be in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":677.99,"endTime":680.81,"body":"relationship. And I was like, Oh"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":677.99,"endTime":680.81,"body":"my gosh, like, like, I missed"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":680.81,"endTime":683.69,"body":"out this thing that I didn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":680.81,"endTime":683.69,"body":"see. And you know, there, there"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":683.69,"endTime":685.73,"body":"are a lot of experiences that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":683.69,"endTime":685.73,"body":"that I don't see, because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":685.73,"endTime":688.58,"body":"they're not my experiences. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":685.73,"endTime":688.58,"body":"I try and be humble and listen,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":688.58,"endTime":691.13,"body":"but I just do that so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":688.58,"endTime":691.13,"body":"imperfectly. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":691.13,"endTime":693.62,"body":"that's the thing, I want to do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":691.13,"endTime":693.62,"body":"better, I want to be better at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":693.62,"endTime":696.83,"body":"hearing people's experiences"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":693.62,"endTime":696.83,"body":"that are outside of my own, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":696.83,"endTime":699.83,"body":"just listening to them and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":696.83,"endTime":699.83,"body":"trusting them. And I have I have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":699.83,"endTime":701.3,"body":"a lot more learning to do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":699.83,"endTime":701.3,"body":"honestly."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":703.58,"endTime":705.56,"body":"It's fair to say that you"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":703.58,"endTime":705.56,"body":"both are pretty open about the"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":705.56,"endTime":710.63,"body":"fact that you are growing and"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":705.56,"endTime":710.63,"body":"continuing to grow. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":710.63,"endTime":715.19,"body":"that it's an open secret that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":710.63,"endTime":715.19,"body":"public discourse is at times not"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":715.19,"endTime":718.55,"body":"always very understanding of"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":715.19,"endTime":718.55,"body":"people growing. So how do you"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":718.55,"endTime":722.69,"body":"think we as a community can do a"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":718.55,"endTime":722.69,"body":"better job of holding people"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":722.69,"endTime":727.34,"body":"accountable, while also giving"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":722.69,"endTime":727.34,"body":"space for people to learn and to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":727.34,"endTime":728.42,"body":"grow and to change?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":732.59,"endTime":734.33,"body":"Well, Charlie's had an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":732.59,"endTime":734.33,"body":"experience where he was pretty"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":734.33,"endTime":737.48,"body":"cancelled. I, that I think would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":734.33,"endTime":737.48,"body":"be good if you're talking about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":737.48,"endTime":741.23,"body":"but I think one things we can do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":737.48,"endTime":741.23,"body":"is offer people grace. So I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":741.23,"endTime":744.5,"body":"spent an amazing weekend in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":741.23,"endTime":744.5,"body":"Sacramento with some great"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":744.5,"endTime":746.87,"body":"people. I went on a youth trek"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":744.5,"endTime":746.87,"body":"there, it was super, super fun."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":747.17,"endTime":749.9,"body":"And as I was talking to the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":747.17,"endTime":749.9,"body":"people who invited me, I know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":749.9,"endTime":752.12,"body":"they would say like, Well, what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":749.9,"endTime":752.12,"body":"about someone saying this thing?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":752.12,"endTime":754.91,"body":"Or? Or what about if this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":752.12,"endTime":754.91,"body":"happens at church? And I said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":754.91,"endTime":756.41,"body":"something like, well, is that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":754.91,"endTime":756.41,"body":"something you would have said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":756.41,"endTime":759.8,"body":"four years ago. And and the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":756.41,"endTime":759.8,"body":"truth is that some of the things"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":759.8,"endTime":762.29,"body":"that make me mad, some things"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":759.8,"endTime":762.29,"body":"that hurt me, some things that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":762.29,"endTime":767.09,"body":"feel toxic, are things that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":762.29,"endTime":767.09,"body":"myself have said, and so I try"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":767.09,"endTime":769.76,"body":"and offer people grace and time"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":767.09,"endTime":769.76,"body":"to grow. So if someone says"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":769.76,"endTime":772.73,"body":"something that they shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":769.76,"endTime":772.73,"body":"say, or that are painful or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":772.73,"endTime":775.1,"body":"hurtful, you know, I try and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":772.73,"endTime":775.1,"body":"look at their intentions, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":775.1,"endTime":778.1,"body":"most people's intentions are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":775.1,"endTime":778.1,"body":"good. And so instead of just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":778.1,"endTime":780.95,"body":"like getting someone out of my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":778.1,"endTime":780.95,"body":"life, or saying they're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":780.95,"endTime":784.19,"body":"canceled, now, I want to give"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":780.95,"endTime":784.19,"body":"them grace and time to grow. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":784.19,"endTime":786.41,"body":"there are some people who don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":784.19,"endTime":786.41,"body":"want to grow, who don't want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":786.41,"endTime":788.81,"body":"listen. And that's their choice."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":786.41,"endTime":788.81,"body":"And maybe that relationship"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":788.81,"endTime":790.79,"body":"isn't going to be a healthy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":788.81,"endTime":790.79,"body":"relationship for me to stay in."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":791.09,"endTime":793.79,"body":"But I want to get those people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":791.09,"endTime":793.79,"body":"to care about time to grow, just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":793.79,"endTime":794.81,"body":"like I've had time to grow."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":796.19,"endTime":796.79,"body":"Thank you, Ben."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":797.17,"endTime":800.02,"body":"Yeah, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":797.17,"endTime":800.02,"body":"connection can sometimes be the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":800.02,"endTime":805.27,"body":"best form of correction. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":800.02,"endTime":805.27,"body":"just for me, so much of it comes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":805.27,"endTime":809.41,"body":"down to proximity. And that what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":805.27,"endTime":809.41,"body":"Ben was talking about, I, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":809.41,"endTime":811.57,"body":"interesting, because I didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":809.41,"endTime":811.57,"body":"foresee I posted something on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":811.57,"endTime":816.34,"body":"Instagram that like a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":811.57,"endTime":816.34,"body":"people took to mean something I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":816.34,"endTime":820.63,"body":"didn't intend for it to mean."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":816.34,"endTime":820.63,"body":"And I felt like it was important"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":820.63,"endTime":824.17,"body":"to say, but, but I was getting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":820.63,"endTime":824.17,"body":"attacked, like on all sides. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":824.17,"endTime":826.78,"body":"it was really interesting,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":824.17,"endTime":826.78,"body":"because people were accusing me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":826.78,"endTime":829.9,"body":"of like, not bringing up certain"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":826.78,"endTime":829.9,"body":"issues or excusing things or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":829.9,"endTime":835.75,"body":"acting a certain way. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":829.9,"endTime":835.75,"body":"like, I talk about that a lot."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":835.9,"endTime":837.76,"body":"You know, they're like, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":835.9,"endTime":837.76,"body":"never talked about the hurtful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":837.76,"endTime":840.67,"body":"things in church history. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":837.76,"endTime":840.67,"body":"was like, I wrote, like, half of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":840.67,"endTime":846.07,"body":"my book is about that. And like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":840.67,"endTime":846.07,"body":"the theme is, is that or, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":846.07,"endTime":848.26,"body":"don't know, it was just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":846.07,"endTime":848.26,"body":"interesting to me. And they were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":848.26,"endTime":851.14,"body":"like, I don't know, they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":848.26,"endTime":851.14,"body":"like, it's so dangerous to like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":851.17,"endTime":854.2,"body":"promote being single and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":851.17,"endTime":854.2,"body":"celibate. And I was like, we did"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":854.2,"endTime":857.59,"body":"a podcast on that where I said"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":854.2,"endTime":857.59,"body":"that, you know, so it was just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":857.59,"endTime":860.41,"body":"interesting to me that people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":857.59,"endTime":860.41,"body":"can take one chunk and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":860.44,"endTime":864.88,"body":"internalize it a certain way and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":860.44,"endTime":864.88,"body":"then make blanket assumptions."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":865.33,"endTime":870.16,"body":"And I think in any polarizing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":865.33,"endTime":870.16,"body":"environment, which sexuality and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":870.16,"endTime":874.0,"body":"religion is super polarizing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":870.16,"endTime":874.0,"body":"there, there are like pretty"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":874.0,"endTime":878.71,"body":"defined sides that I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":874.0,"endTime":878.71,"body":"break out of, because I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":878.71,"endTime":882.25,"body":"belong to either. And so when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":878.71,"endTime":882.25,"body":"people try to pull me to their"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":882.25,"endTime":886.66,"body":"side, it makes like, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":882.25,"endTime":886.66,"body":"I feel like they don't see me as"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":886.66,"endTime":889.33,"body":"a person. And if they could get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":886.66,"endTime":889.33,"body":"to know me and have a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":889.33,"endTime":893.74,"body":"discussion, that if I do need to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":889.33,"endTime":893.74,"body":"be corrected, then then I want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":893.74,"endTime":897.82,"body":"to like I want to do better. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":893.74,"endTime":897.82,"body":"when it comes in like, like you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":897.82,"endTime":901.75,"body":"are this way and you're bad,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":897.82,"endTime":901.75,"body":"that's It's not helpful. I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":901.75,"endTime":904.42,"body":"know if that helps. I'm still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":901.75,"endTime":904.42,"body":"that hurt my feelings. I'm still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":904.42,"endTime":905.68,"body":"not over it. Thanks for bringing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":904.42,"endTime":905.68,"body":"it up Ben."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":909.92,"endTime":912.74,"body":"And this is a story I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":909.92,"endTime":912.74,"body":"mentioned my book and in my TEDx"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":912.74,"endTime":914.69,"body":"talks. I apologize if you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":912.74,"endTime":914.69,"body":"already heard this story, but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":914.84,"endTime":918.5,"body":"but I love my brother Justin."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":914.84,"endTime":918.5,"body":"He's amazing. But when I told"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":918.5,"endTime":920.42,"body":"him that I had kissed a man,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":918.5,"endTime":920.42,"body":"like his response was like to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":920.42,"endTime":925.7,"body":"shutter and say, like, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":920.42,"endTime":925.7,"body":"yeah. And the thing I said, in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":925.7,"endTime":928.82,"body":"my TED Talk, which I super"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":925.7,"endTime":928.82,"body":"believe, is like, I didn't care"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":928.82,"endTime":930.71,"body":"how he responded, I just cared"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":928.82,"endTime":930.71,"body":"that we were having the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":930.71,"endTime":934.73,"body":"conversation. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":930.71,"endTime":934.73,"body":"now, years later, like, like, he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":934.73,"endTime":937.82,"body":"would have a much different"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":934.73,"endTime":937.82,"body":"response. And, you know, I could"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":937.82,"endTime":941.3,"body":"have said, How dare you respond"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":937.82,"endTime":941.3,"body":"that way. And then then I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":941.3,"endTime":944.09,"body":"going home, I'm not seeing my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":941.3,"endTime":944.09,"body":"brother anymore. But like, what,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":944.09,"endTime":947.06,"body":"like, what a shame that would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":944.09,"endTime":947.06,"body":"have been for our family. But it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":947.06,"endTime":949.79,"body":"took both of us, you know, me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":947.06,"endTime":949.79,"body":"being willing to share and him"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":949.82,"endTime":953.66,"body":"being like having the humility"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":949.82,"endTime":953.66,"body":"to listen and understand me,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":954.11,"endTime":956.36,"body":"that really brought us closer"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":954.11,"endTime":956.36,"body":"together and brought understand"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":956.36,"endTime":959.48,"body":"for both of us. And then my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":956.36,"endTime":959.48,"body":"brother, he works at a at a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":959.48,"endTime":961.61,"body":"middle school, then he started a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":959.48,"endTime":961.61,"body":"pride club and his middle"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":961.61,"endTime":963.8,"body":"school. And when he told me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":961.61,"endTime":963.8,"body":"about that, he said, You know, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":963.8,"endTime":966.05,"body":"did this, because I don't want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":963.8,"endTime":966.05,"body":"anyone to have to feel as alone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":966.05,"endTime":968.99,"body":"as you did. And so this is what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":966.05,"endTime":968.99,"body":"happens when we are patient,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":969.17,"endTime":972.83,"body":"when we take time to listen and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":969.17,"endTime":972.83,"body":"teach people that it just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":972.83,"endTime":976.1,"body":"ripples out into more goodness."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":972.83,"endTime":976.1,"body":"And if we just cancel people and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":976.1,"endTime":978.32,"body":"say, You're bad, you're toxic,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":976.1,"endTime":978.32,"body":"then those ripples are going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":978.32,"endTime":979.16,"body":"stop with us."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":980.46,"endTime":983.43,"body":"Thank you, Ben. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":980.46,"endTime":983.43,"body":"that's a round of applause."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":988.91,"endTime":991.37,"body":"That's the last round of"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":988.91,"endTime":991.37,"body":"applause that'll allow you for"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":991.37,"endTime":993.86,"body":"this. Just because, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":991.37,"endTime":993.86,"body":"want to be like..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":994.13,"endTime":994.55,"body":"No, I like it."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":994.7,"endTime":995.57,"body":"No, no, no,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":996.05,"endTime":997.1,"body":"It feels great guys."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":997.79,"endTime":999.95,"body":"Maybe like wave your"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":997.79,"endTime":999.95,"body":"hands? I don't know. We'll play"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":999.95,"endTime":1006.07,"body":"it by ear. Okay. Um, so I'm just"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":999.95,"endTime":1006.07,"body":"curious, then, like you, clearly"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1006.1,"endTime":1009.37,"body":"you guys have strong opinions"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1006.1,"endTime":1009.37,"body":"and like experiences that have"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1009.7,"endTime":1013.15,"body":"allowed you to be empathetic to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1009.7,"endTime":1013.15,"body":"yourself, like, especially to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1013.15,"endTime":1016.42,"body":"others as they're continuing to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1013.15,"endTime":1016.42,"body":"learn and to grow. One of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1016.42,"endTime":1020.83,"body":"questions on here from Adam S."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1016.42,"endTime":1020.83,"body":"My brother came out to me two"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1020.83,"endTime":1023.92,"body":"years ago, and I did not react"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1020.83,"endTime":1023.92,"body":"the way that I wanted to, I've"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1023.92,"endTime":1026.86,"body":"learned a lot, but I don't know"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1023.92,"endTime":1026.86,"body":"how else I can say that I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1026.86,"endTime":1029.83,"body":"sorry. He just won't talk to me."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1026.86,"endTime":1029.83,"body":"What do I do?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1031.66,"endTime":1033.49,"body":"Well, I always say for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1031.66,"endTime":1033.49,"body":"these questions. I don't know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1033.49,"endTime":1035.17,"body":"what you should do, because I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1033.49,"endTime":1035.17,"body":"don't know your relationship."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1035.98,"endTime":1039.34,"body":"And so it really depends on your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1035.98,"endTime":1039.34,"body":"personal relationship. When I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1039.34,"endTime":1042.49,"body":"think of like, who I want my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1039.34,"endTime":1042.49,"body":"like, who I would want in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1042.49,"endTime":1044.92,"body":"future spouse and a partner. You"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1042.49,"endTime":1044.92,"body":"know, of course, all those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1044.92,"endTime":1047.2,"body":"normal things that light like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1044.92,"endTime":1047.2,"body":"rapport, someone I'm attracted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1047.2,"endTime":1049.36,"body":"to. But aside from all the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1047.2,"endTime":1049.36,"body":"normal things, like the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1049.36,"endTime":1051.58,"body":"characteristic that matters the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1049.36,"endTime":1051.58,"body":"most if someone is forgiving,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1052.39,"endTime":1055.36,"body":"because I make a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1052.39,"endTime":1055.36,"body":"mistakes. And you know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1055.36,"endTime":1058.69,"body":"know what your relationship is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1055.36,"endTime":1058.69,"body":"like with your brother. And he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1058.69,"endTime":1060.55,"body":"might not be in a place where"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1058.69,"endTime":1060.55,"body":"he's ready to receive an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1060.55,"endTime":1064.03,"body":"apology. But I would say, keep"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1060.55,"endTime":1064.03,"body":"reaching out, keep keep"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1064.03,"endTime":1068.17,"body":"apologizing. Whenever I talk to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1064.03,"endTime":1068.17,"body":"someone who has come out to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1068.17,"endTime":1070.57,"body":"family member and they don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1068.17,"endTime":1070.57,"body":"respond well. I always say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1070.6,"endTime":1073.42,"body":"that's not the last"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1070.6,"endTime":1073.42,"body":"conversation, like, like, you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1073.42,"endTime":1076.15,"body":"going to have more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1073.42,"endTime":1076.15,"body":"conversations. And so he might"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1076.15,"endTime":1078.61,"body":"be in a place where he's not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1076.15,"endTime":1078.61,"body":"ready to talk or forgive now,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1078.61,"endTime":1081.88,"body":"and that's okay. Like the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1078.61,"endTime":1081.88,"body":"relationships lasts a long time."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1082.09,"endTime":1085.51,"body":"And it's okay to be patient and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1082.09,"endTime":1085.51,"body":"to wait for those wounds to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1085.51,"endTime":1088.54,"body":"heal. I think an apology and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1085.51,"endTime":1088.54,"body":"multiple apologies can always be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1088.54,"endTime":1089.71,"body":"warranted if you did the wrong"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1088.54,"endTime":1089.71,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1090.59,"endTime":1093.71,"body":"Thank you, Ben. Do you"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1090.59,"endTime":1093.71,"body":"want to say something, Charlie?"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1093.74,"endTime":1097.91,"body":"Okay, great. So I think that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1093.74,"endTime":1097.91,"body":"this is an important thing."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1097.91,"endTime":1100.4,"body":"Let's give grace, let's give"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1097.91,"endTime":1100.4,"body":"empathy. And then there are"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1100.4,"endTime":1103.58,"body":"situations where the person"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1100.4,"endTime":1103.58,"body":"who's I mean, Adams brother,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1104.03,"endTime":1108.2,"body":"maybe he's listening, maybe he's"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1104.03,"endTime":1108.2,"body":"not. He is justifiably angry."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1108.23,"endTime":1110.57,"body":"It's okay. That he's angry. It's"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1108.23,"endTime":1110.57,"body":"okay that he's upset about the"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1110.57,"endTime":1114.23,"body":"fact that his brother wasn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1110.57,"endTime":1114.23,"body":"understanding. But someone who's"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1114.29,"endTime":1118.64,"body":"committed to anger, this is a"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1114.29,"endTime":1118.64,"body":"question ummm, anonymous. How"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1118.64,"endTime":1122.51,"body":"can I let go of anger towards"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1118.64,"endTime":1122.51,"body":"the church? I want to, but I"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1122.51,"endTime":1128.48,"body":"just don't know how, how have"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1122.51,"endTime":1128.48,"body":"either of you handled this? Easy"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1128.48,"endTime":1129.23,"body":"question."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1129.72,"endTime":1135.78,"body":"Yeah. So part of me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1129.72,"endTime":1135.78,"body":"when I hear that is, it almost"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1135.78,"endTime":1138.69,"body":"sounds like this person is under"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1135.78,"endTime":1138.69,"body":"the impression that I'm not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1138.69,"endTime":1146.22,"body":"angry. And I'm angry every day."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1138.69,"endTime":1146.22,"body":"Like, every time there's like, a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1146.22,"endTime":1149.91,"body":"misconception or a way that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1146.22,"endTime":1149.91,"body":"feel marginalized or see a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1149.91,"endTime":1153.15,"body":"friend being marginalized or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1149.91,"endTime":1153.15,"body":"hurt, I'm angry. I'm angry all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1153.15,"endTime":1159.75,"body":"the time. And I guess like, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1153.15,"endTime":1159.75,"body":"way I try to work through that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1159.75,"endTime":1163.23,"body":"is to allow myself to feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1159.75,"endTime":1163.23,"body":"multiple emotions at the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1163.23,"endTime":1168.36,"body":"time, even if, like, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1163.23,"endTime":1168.36,"body":"they should be contradictory."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1169.05,"endTime":1175.62,"body":"And as I open up a space for me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1169.05,"endTime":1175.62,"body":"to feel anger and also hope and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1175.65,"endTime":1181.02,"body":"devotion and accountability, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1175.65,"endTime":1181.02,"body":"forgiveness all at the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1181.02,"endTime":1185.4,"body":"time. I feel like it expands my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1181.02,"endTime":1185.4,"body":"heart and allows that anger not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1185.4,"endTime":1192.78,"body":"to become who I am, but be a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1185.4,"endTime":1192.78,"body":"driving force for me to work"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1192.78,"endTime":1198.78,"body":"through doubt and push for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1192.78,"endTime":1198.78,"body":"positive change. And so I like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1198.78,"endTime":1201.15,"body":"really feel like it's okay to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1198.78,"endTime":1201.15,"body":"angry and there's so many"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1201.15,"endTime":1206.13,"body":"reasons that you should be. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1201.15,"endTime":1206.13,"body":"that doesn't mean that you have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1206.13,"endTime":1211.38,"body":"to close yourself off from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1206.13,"endTime":1211.38,"body":"goodness and let, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1211.38,"endTime":1215.01,"body":"that anger can be an inspiration"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1211.38,"endTime":1215.01,"body":"and a catalyst for for beauty."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1216.53,"endTime":1218.72,"body":"I just want to echo what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1216.53,"endTime":1218.72,"body":"Charlie said that you know, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1218.72,"endTime":1223.64,"body":"get angry a lot. really terrible"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1218.72,"endTime":1223.64,"body":"things happen. And it's not like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1223.64,"endTime":1226.07,"body":"I just brush it off say, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1223.64,"endTime":1226.07,"body":"well all as well on Zion, Zion"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1226.07,"endTime":1228.68,"body":"prosperous. In fact, if we say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1226.07,"endTime":1228.68,"body":"that, according to Nephi, we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1228.68,"endTime":1233.12,"body":"being carefully led down to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1228.68,"endTime":1233.12,"body":"hell. So, so let's not think all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1233.12,"endTime":1236.72,"body":"as well in Zion, because because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1233.12,"endTime":1236.72,"body":"it's not. And you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1236.72,"endTime":1239.24,"body":"ever go to therapy, that you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1236.72,"endTime":1239.24,"body":"often be told that anger is a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1239.24,"endTime":1241.28,"body":"secondary emotion, that is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1239.24,"endTime":1241.28,"body":"something else or feeling"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1241.28,"endTime":1246.32,"body":"whether it be pain, isolation,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1241.28,"endTime":1246.32,"body":"rejection. So just like Charlie,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1246.32,"endTime":1250.49,"body":"I try to allow myself to feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1246.32,"endTime":1250.49,"body":"those feelings. And I just, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1250.49,"endTime":1253.01,"body":"honest with myself, I talk to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1250.49,"endTime":1253.01,"body":"people that I care about and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1253.04,"endTime":1256.25,"body":"about how I actually feel. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1253.04,"endTime":1256.25,"body":"that has been really helpful for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1256.25,"endTime":1259.94,"body":"me when something painful and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1256.25,"endTime":1259.94,"body":"hurtful happens. So when we when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1259.94,"endTime":1261.62,"body":"we talked to the beginning"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1259.94,"endTime":1261.62,"body":"about, you know how this this,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1261.65,"endTime":1265.88,"body":"this podcast started. So I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1261.65,"endTime":1265.88,"body":"finished my book, which I felt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1265.88,"endTime":1268.46,"body":"prompted to do, and I felt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1265.88,"endTime":1268.46,"body":"prompted do this podcast and the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1268.46,"endTime":1271.19,"body":"podcast came out. And I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1268.46,"endTime":1271.19,"body":"like, Okay, what is the next"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1271.19,"endTime":1273.2,"body":"thing like I did these two"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1271.19,"endTime":1273.2,"body":"things I feel proud to do, what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1273.2,"endTime":1276.8,"body":"is the next thing, and the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1273.2,"endTime":1276.8,"body":"shutdown had just happened. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1276.8,"endTime":1279.47,"body":"was spending, I ended up"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1276.8,"endTime":1279.47,"body":"spending three weeks in Arizona"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1279.47,"endTime":1282.11,"body":"with my friends, Kevin and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1279.47,"endTime":1282.11,"body":"Allison. And while I was there,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1282.11,"endTime":1284.72,"body":"I just was thinking about some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1282.11,"endTime":1284.72,"body":"things that just happen at BYU"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1284.72,"endTime":1287.81,"body":"before the shutdown. There was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1284.72,"endTime":1287.81,"body":"this race integration panel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1287.84,"endTime":1291.29,"body":"where some really racist"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1287.84,"endTime":1291.29,"body":"comments were were made. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1291.29,"endTime":1295.37,"body":"then the whole change the Honor"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1291.29,"endTime":1295.37,"body":"Code, that was really painful"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1295.37,"endTime":1298.4,"body":"for a lot of people. And I met"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1295.37,"endTime":1298.4,"body":"with a lot of students about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1298.4,"endTime":1302.51,"body":"both of those incidences, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1298.4,"endTime":1302.51,"body":"just saw the pain. And I talked"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1302.51,"endTime":1304.7,"body":"to some of the people who were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1302.51,"endTime":1304.7,"body":"uncomfortable that there were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1304.7,"endTime":1308.75,"body":"even gay students on campus. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1304.7,"endTime":1308.75,"body":"and I was like, well, I am gay,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1308.75,"endTime":1313.07,"body":"and they were shocked to that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1308.75,"endTime":1313.07,"body":"was even possible. But I had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1313.07,"endTime":1315.23,"body":"this really beautiful"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1313.07,"endTime":1315.23,"body":"conversation with a student who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1315.23,"endTime":1317.21,"body":"was like, Why are their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1315.23,"endTime":1317.21,"body":"homosexuals little at the Lord's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1317.21,"endTime":1323.06,"body":"University, and we had this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1317.21,"endTime":1323.06,"body":"beautiful, I but we had this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1323.09,"endTime":1326.9,"body":"really beautiful conversation."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1323.09,"endTime":1326.9,"body":"And and when he left, I think we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1326.9,"endTime":1330.8,"body":"both felt super good. And so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1326.9,"endTime":1330.8,"body":"was reflecting all the all this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1330.8,"endTime":1335.3,"body":"when I was in Arizona, and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1330.8,"endTime":1335.3,"body":"thought I, I don't think any of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1335.3,"endTime":1338.09,"body":"this is happening because people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1335.3,"endTime":1338.09,"body":"have malice. I don't think they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1338.21,"endTime":1341.03,"body":"think they mean to hate people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1338.21,"endTime":1341.03,"body":"of other races. I don't think"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1341.03,"endTime":1344.51,"body":"they mean to hate LGBTQ people."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1341.03,"endTime":1344.51,"body":"They just don't know. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1344.51,"endTime":1347.21,"body":"think a little education will"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1344.51,"endTime":1347.21,"body":"change the world here. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1347.21,"endTime":1348.86,"body":"thought, well, I have a PhD,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1347.21,"endTime":1348.86,"body":"maybe I'll just teach a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1348.86,"endTime":1354.8,"body":"diversity class. And so I well,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1348.86,"endTime":1354.8,"body":"during shutdown, I I made a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1354.8,"endTime":1357.44,"body":"proposal and wrote this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1354.8,"endTime":1357.44,"body":"diversity class that somehow got"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1357.44,"endTime":1359.51,"body":"approved. And I've been teaching"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1357.44,"endTime":1359.51,"body":"for two semesters, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1359.51,"endTime":1362.78,"body":"teach in the fall as well. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1359.51,"endTime":1362.78,"body":"then once I did that, I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1362.78,"endTime":1366.44,"body":"like, Okay, now what is the next"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1362.78,"endTime":1366.44,"body":"thing? And so now I'm working on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1366.44,"endTime":1368.51,"body":"other projects that maybe I'll"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1366.44,"endTime":1368.51,"body":"talk about in the future, if it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1368.51,"endTime":1372.71,"body":"ever ends up happening. So the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1368.51,"endTime":1372.71,"body":"reason I share this is, when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1372.74,"endTime":1375.29,"body":"when painful things happen, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1372.74,"endTime":1375.29,"body":"think, how can I create the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1375.29,"endTime":1378.41,"body":"world I want to live in? Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1375.29,"endTime":1378.41,"body":"what can I do to create a world,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1378.44,"endTime":1381.11,"body":"the world that I want to live"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1378.44,"endTime":1381.11,"body":"in. And then I put all my energy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1381.11,"endTime":1384.56,"body":"into that. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1381.11,"endTime":1384.56,"body":"prayers I pray the most often I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1384.56,"endTime":1387.2,"body":"say, Heavenly Father, I want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1384.56,"endTime":1387.2,"body":"do all I can in my sphere of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1387.2,"endTime":1390.5,"body":"influence, to make the world a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1387.2,"endTime":1390.5,"body":"better place. And if you want me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1390.5,"endTime":1394.04,"body":"to have a bigger sphere of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1390.5,"endTime":1394.04,"body":"influence that's on you. And and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1394.04,"endTime":1400.88,"body":"you know, I do say that more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1394.04,"endTime":1400.88,"body":"more prayerful language, of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1400.88,"endTime":1405.53,"body":"course. But you know, what, when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1400.88,"endTime":1405.53,"body":"when tough things happen, that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1405.53,"endTime":1408.8,"body":"kind of my response, I let"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1405.53,"endTime":1408.8,"body":"myself feel the feelings. I talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1408.8,"endTime":1411.32,"body":"to people I care about, about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1408.8,"endTime":1411.32,"body":"how I'm feeling. And then I say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1411.32,"endTime":1413.54,"body":"okay, what can I do to make the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1411.32,"endTime":1413.54,"body":"world better? How can I turn"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1413.54,"endTime":1415.43,"body":"these my energy into something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1413.54,"endTime":1415.43,"body":"productive?"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1416.24,"endTime":1420.2,"body":"Thank you, Ben. Thank"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1416.24,"endTime":1420.2,"body":"you, Charlie. I want to repeat"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1420.2,"endTime":1423.8,"body":"the question back to you that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1420.2,"endTime":1423.8,"body":"you just I think whoever it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1423.8,"endTime":1427.07,"body":"that asked you that? Why does"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1423.8,"endTime":1427.07,"body":"the Lord allow homosexuals at"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1427.07,"endTime":1427.76,"body":"BYU?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1429.22,"endTime":1433.63,"body":"Because God lets all of his"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1429.22,"endTime":1433.63,"body":"children attend BYU. Like God"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1433.63,"endTime":1443.77,"body":"has anything to do with who gets"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1433.63,"endTime":1443.77,"body":"into BYU. So I was on this panel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1443.77,"endTime":1447.49,"body":"at BYU back in January of 2020."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1443.77,"endTime":1447.49,"body":"And one of the people on the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1447.49,"endTime":1450.55,"body":"panel was Liz Darger, who's the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1447.49,"endTime":1450.55,"body":"Senior Associate Director of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1450.55,"endTime":1455.2,"body":"Athletics, I believe, is her"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1450.55,"endTime":1455.2,"body":"title. And, and she was asked a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1455.2,"endTime":1457.57,"body":"question similar to this like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1455.2,"endTime":1457.57,"body":"like, like, should LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1457.57,"endTime":1460.09,"body":"students attend to BYU? And she"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1457.57,"endTime":1460.09,"body":"said, Where else would we want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1460.09,"endTime":1461.68,"body":"them to Like, where else would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1460.09,"endTime":1461.68,"body":"we want them to be?"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1461.89,"endTime":1462.4,"body":"Amen."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1462.38,"endTime":1465.53,"body":"And so we just need to do a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1462.38,"endTime":1465.53,"body":"better job of creating a space"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1465.53,"endTime":1469.61,"body":"where people feel comfortable."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1465.53,"endTime":1469.61,"body":"Not long ago, I was in a in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1469.61,"endTime":1473.27,"body":"class and I was part of a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1469.61,"endTime":1473.27,"body":"diversity panel. And there was a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1473.3,"endTime":1476.51,"body":"there was a woman of color, a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1473.3,"endTime":1476.51,"body":"man of color and me on the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1476.51,"endTime":1479.24,"body":"panel. And one of the questions"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1476.51,"endTime":1479.24,"body":"I was asked was, how can we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1479.24,"endTime":1482.15,"body":"create more diversity at BYU"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1479.24,"endTime":1482.15,"body":"and, and they talked about, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1482.15,"endTime":1484.61,"body":"know, recruitment and things"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1482.15,"endTime":1484.61,"body":"like that and, and elevate"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1484.61,"endTime":1486.74,"body":"people's voices. And then it was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1484.61,"endTime":1486.74,"body":"my turn, I said, Well, we don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1486.74,"endTime":1489.26,"body":"need to create more LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1486.74,"endTime":1489.26,"body":"diversity at BYU it's already"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1489.26,"endTime":1492.14,"body":"here. Like we already have the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1489.26,"endTime":1492.14,"body":"diversity, we just don't know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1492.14,"endTime":1494.63,"body":"about it. And so we need to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1492.14,"endTime":1494.63,"body":"create an environment where"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1494.63,"endTime":1497.36,"body":"people feel comfortable and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1494.63,"endTime":1497.36,"body":"confident enough for them to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1497.36,"endTime":1501.56,"body":"share their stories and be open"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1497.36,"endTime":1501.56,"body":"about who they are. And one of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1501.56,"endTime":1504.23,"body":"the best things that like some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1501.56,"endTime":1504.23,"body":"of the best feedback we get on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1504.23,"endTime":1506.84,"body":"the podcast is when someone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1504.23,"endTime":1506.84,"body":"comes up to me and they say, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1506.84,"endTime":1509.39,"body":"at BYU, and I listen to you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1506.84,"endTime":1509.39,"body":"podcast, and you helped me hav"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1509.39,"endTime":1512.21,"body":"the courage to come out. Yo"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1509.39,"endTime":1512.21,"body":"know, I know it's not the righ"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1512.21,"endTime":1514.25,"body":"thing for everybody. But i"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1512.21,"endTime":1514.25,"body":"there's something that you wan"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1514.25,"endTime":1516.47,"body":"to do, and we can just give yo"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1514.25,"endTime":1516.47,"body":"a little bit of courage to hel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1516.47,"endTime":1518.66,"body":"you do that thing that you wan"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1516.47,"endTime":1518.66,"body":"to do, like, that is a win"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1519.559,"endTime":1523.069,"body":"Thank you. Great answer."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1519.559,"endTime":1523.069,"body":"So this is a little bit of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1523.069,"endTime":1527.209,"body":"pivot. And we've talked a little"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1523.069,"endTime":1527.209,"body":"bit about this or, personally,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1527.209,"endTime":1530.059,"body":"and I know you've touched on it"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1527.209,"endTime":1530.059,"body":"in your podcast, but I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1530.059,"endTime":1533.209,"body":"it's an important one. How do"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1530.059,"endTime":1533.209,"body":"you deal with the high image"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1533.209,"endTime":1535.969,"body":"standards unofficially pushed by"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1533.209,"endTime":1535.969,"body":"the gay community?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1536.78,"endTime":1537.71,"body":"We meet them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1546.15,"endTime":1550.77,"body":"I'm assuming that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1546.15,"endTime":1550.77,"body":"body image. I have some thoughts"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1550.77,"endTime":1557.22,"body":"on this. And I, you know, I can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1550.77,"endTime":1557.22,"body":"only speak from my perspective"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1557.25,"endTime":1567.24,"body":"as a cisgender gay man. And I, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1557.25,"endTime":1567.24,"body":"think one of like, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1567.24,"endTime":1570.87,"body":"how problematic it is, but but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1567.24,"endTime":1570.87,"body":"in the same sex couple like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1571.53,"endTime":1574.29,"body":"that, I feel like there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1571.53,"endTime":1574.29,"body":"of comparisons that can be made,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1574.65,"endTime":1578.73,"body":"right, like, you're taller,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1574.65,"endTime":1578.73,"body":"you're shorter, you have bigger"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1578.73,"endTime":1580.65,"body":"arms, you have more hair, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1578.73,"endTime":1580.65,"body":"there's a bunch of different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1580.65,"endTime":1583.95,"body":"ways that like we can talk about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1580.65,"endTime":1583.95,"body":"like bodies and compare bodies."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1583.95,"endTime":1586.92,"body":"And I also think that one of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1583.95,"endTime":1586.92,"body":"reasons that like body image is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1586.92,"endTime":1592.02,"body":"a huge issue, especially for gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1586.92,"endTime":1592.02,"body":"men is the way that like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1592.05,"endTime":1595.26,"body":"sexuality is so sexualized,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1592.05,"endTime":1595.26,"body":"like, we don't talk about as if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1595.26,"endTime":1599.46,"body":"it's orientation, like, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1595.26,"endTime":1599.46,"body":"spiritual and emotional and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1599.46,"endTime":1602.67,"body":"companionship connection, it's,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1599.46,"endTime":1602.67,"body":"it's only viewed like through a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1602.67,"endTime":1608.19,"body":"sexual lens. On top of that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1602.67,"endTime":1608.19,"body":"there's like, a lot of people's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1608.19,"endTime":1611.13,"body":"first exposure when they're gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1608.19,"endTime":1611.13,"body":"to any type of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1611.19,"endTime":1614.58,"body":"relationship, or like sexuality"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1611.19,"endTime":1614.58,"body":"is through pornography, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1614.58,"endTime":1616.68,"body":"they're trying to hide things,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1614.58,"endTime":1616.68,"body":"and they can't like, go on a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1616.68,"endTime":1619.02,"body":"date and meet someone. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1616.68,"endTime":1619.02,"body":"there's a lot of ways that like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1619.23,"endTime":1625.32,"body":"bodies become very important,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1619.23,"endTime":1625.32,"body":"very quickly. And I think just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1625.32,"endTime":1628.32,"body":"one of one of the things that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1625.32,"endTime":1628.32,"body":"learned from dating was that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1629.43,"endTime":1633.93,"body":"like, orientation isn't just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1629.43,"endTime":1633.93,"body":"sexuality. And just being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1633.93,"endTime":1637.11,"body":"attracted to someone, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1633.93,"endTime":1637.11,"body":"physically doesn't necessarily,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1637.11,"endTime":1640.8,"body":"like equate love, like at all."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1637.11,"endTime":1640.8,"body":"And so there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1640.8,"endTime":1644.01,"body":"different ways to like, be a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1640.8,"endTime":1644.01,"body":"beautiful person and be loved."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1644.01,"endTime":1646.65,"body":"So I'm just I guess, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1644.01,"endTime":1646.65,"body":"assuming that that question is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1646.65,"endTime":1651.57,"body":"coming from like, I'm worried to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1646.65,"endTime":1651.57,"body":"find love. But on top of that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1651.57,"endTime":1654.57,"body":"like, I think everyone struggles"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1651.57,"endTime":1654.57,"body":"with body image issues because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1654.57,"endTime":1658.59,"body":"of the images that we're fed all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1654.57,"endTime":1658.59,"body":"the time. So like, like, for me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1658.62,"endTime":1663.42,"body":"when I honestly, I used to be so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1658.62,"endTime":1663.42,"body":"wrapped up in that, because I am"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1663.42,"endTime":1666.3,"body":"sensitive to that. And like, if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1663.42,"endTime":1666.3,"body":"you like scrolled down on my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1666.3,"endTime":1668.73,"body":"Instagram, I think I'm an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1666.3,"endTime":1668.73,"body":"archive most of it, I hope. So."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1669.0,"endTime":1671.73,"body":"I used to like post thirst"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1669.0,"endTime":1671.73,"body":"traps, and try to be sexy and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1671.73,"endTime":1675.54,"body":"spend a lot of time at the gym."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1671.73,"endTime":1675.54,"body":"And sometimes I feel guilty that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1675.54,"endTime":1678.81,"body":"I'm not doing that right now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1675.54,"endTime":1678.81,"body":"Because I'm like, oh, and like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1678.99,"endTime":1681.39,"body":"writing and doing the podcast"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1678.99,"endTime":1681.39,"body":"and I don't have time I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1681.39,"endTime":1685.26,"body":"maybe I won't be enough. Maybe I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1681.39,"endTime":1685.26,"body":"can't be the coolest, most"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1685.26,"endTime":1688.41,"body":"attractive guy. And I'm like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1685.26,"endTime":1688.41,"body":"don't know, I just don't have to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1688.41,"endTime":1693.36,"body":"be. And so as I like filter out"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1688.41,"endTime":1693.36,"body":"different social media accounts,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1693.36,"endTime":1696.42,"body":"like I can unfollow people who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1693.36,"endTime":1696.42,"body":"make me feel bad about myself"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1696.42,"endTime":1699.96,"body":"and, and just put myself in a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1696.42,"endTime":1699.96,"body":"position where I can see myself"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1700.47,"endTime":1705.0,"body":"for my spirit, and just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1700.47,"endTime":1705.0,"body":"recognize that this body is a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1705.0,"endTime":1709.86,"body":"vehicle for me to do good. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1705.0,"endTime":1709.86,"body":"have a spirit. And I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1709.86,"endTime":1712.65,"body":"is that helpful? Ben do you have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1709.86,"endTime":1712.65,"body":"any thoughts other than that you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1712.65,"endTime":1715.14,"body":"are the male image standard?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1716.86,"endTime":1720.82,"body":"That was a joke. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1716.86,"endTime":1720.82,"body":"think I'm the wrong person to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1720.82,"endTime":1724.3,"body":"ask this. I don't I don't have a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1720.82,"endTime":1724.3,"body":"lot of body image issues. So I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1724.33,"endTime":1727.24,"body":"there are, I think are probably"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1724.33,"endTime":1727.24,"body":"better people to ask this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1727.24,"endTime":1731.2,"body":"question to than me. I might on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1727.24,"endTime":1731.2,"body":"my mom's side of the family"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1731.23,"endTime":1733.63,"body":"there are people just naturally"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1731.23,"endTime":1733.63,"body":"tall and thin and broad"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1733.63,"endTime":1737.56,"body":"shouldered. So I just naturally"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1733.63,"endTime":1737.56,"body":"tall and thin with broad"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1737.56,"endTime":1742.21,"body":"shoulders. That's not how I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1737.56,"endTime":1742.21,"body":"born. It's not anything I did."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1742.75,"endTime":1745.48,"body":"But when I was always pretty"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1742.75,"endTime":1745.48,"body":"skinny, I was kind of scrawny."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1745.63,"endTime":1748.36,"body":"And then when I moved to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1745.63,"endTime":1748.36,"body":"Arizona, at the University of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1748.36,"endTime":1751.24,"body":"Arizona, there was this, this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1748.36,"endTime":1751.24,"body":"mandatory rec center fee we had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1751.24,"endTime":1753.52,"body":"to pay there's like hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1751.24,"endTime":1753.52,"body":"dollars every semester, and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1753.52,"endTime":1756.46,"body":"tried to get them to take away"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1753.52,"endTime":1756.46,"body":"the fee because I wasn't gonna"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1756.46,"endTime":1758.74,"body":"use it and they wouldn't. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1756.46,"endTime":1758.74,"body":"was like, Well, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1758.74,"endTime":1763.33,"body":"show them so I started working"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1758.74,"endTime":1763.33,"body":"out out of spite and and so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1763.33,"endTime":1765.76,"body":"made a goal that workout zero to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1763.33,"endTime":1765.76,"body":"four times a week and that is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1765.76,"endTime":1769.75,"body":"still my goal. So every week I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1765.76,"endTime":1769.75,"body":"make my goal and and it's been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1769.75,"endTime":1773.83,"body":"really fun. Like I'm I have like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1769.75,"endTime":1773.83,"body":"30 pounds of muscle more than I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1773.83,"endTime":1776.59,"body":"used to have. And like when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1773.83,"endTime":1776.59,"body":"got to Arizona, and it's been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1776.62,"endTime":1779.44,"body":"it's been fun. It's also been a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1776.62,"endTime":1779.44,"body":"lot of work, but something that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1779.44,"endTime":1781.51,"body":"have been out of spite and now I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1779.44,"endTime":1781.51,"body":"just do it because I enjoy it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1781.51,"endTime":1783.91,"body":"So I don't know what I'm saying"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1781.51,"endTime":1783.91,"body":"where I'm going with this. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1783.91,"endTime":1787.6,"body":"guess if there's something about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1783.91,"endTime":1787.6,"body":"you that you don't like love"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1787.6,"endTime":1789.67,"body":"yourself and also if there's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1787.6,"endTime":1789.67,"body":"something that you could do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1789.67,"endTime":1792.28,"body":"better, you know, don't don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1789.67,"endTime":1792.28,"body":"hesitate to try something new"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1792.49,"endTime":1793.09,"body":"out of spite."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1795.37,"endTime":1798.13,"body":"I think the key takeaway"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1795.37,"endTime":1798.13,"body":"Ben was that we all heard that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1798.13,"endTime":1800.2,"body":"you have 30 more pounds of"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1798.13,"endTime":1800.2,"body":"muscle."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1801.43,"endTime":1803.68,"body":"Probably like 25. I've got"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1801.43,"endTime":1803.68,"body":"a little chub now too."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1803.74,"endTime":1808.48,"body":"Oh whatever. Speaking of"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1803.74,"endTime":1808.48,"body":"image, this question is from"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1808.48,"endTime":1814.36,"body":"Kristin. Charlie, your hair"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1808.48,"endTime":1814.36,"body":"always looks so good. What do"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1814.36,"endTime":1816.7,"body":"you use to keep it looking good?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.83,"endTime":1823.98,"body":"Kiristin, Okay, first"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.83,"endTime":1823.98,"body":"of all, Kristin, Kristin, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1823.98,"endTime":1826.5,"body":"got to have like wavy or curly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1823.98,"endTime":1826.5,"body":"hair. If you want the curls to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1826.5,"endTime":1829.59,"body":"pop, right, you can't be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1826.5,"endTime":1829.59,"body":"starting with like, straight"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1829.59,"endTime":1831.96,"body":"hair. straight hair can be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1829.59,"endTime":1831.96,"body":"beautiful, but so can curls. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1831.96,"endTime":1835.95,"body":"I'm gonna tell you how. The"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1831.96,"endTime":1835.95,"body":"first thing you do, you can't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.95,"endTime":1838.77,"body":"brush you can't finger comb, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.95,"endTime":1838.77,"body":"got to scrunch. So it starts"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1838.77,"endTime":1840.57,"body":"when it's wet. If you're in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1838.77,"endTime":1840.57,"body":"shower, you put your hair in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1840.57,"endTime":1843.15,"body":"sink, whatever, you got to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1840.57,"endTime":1843.15,"body":"scrunch it, okay, and we want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1843.15,"endTime":1847.32,"body":"those curls to start getting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1843.15,"endTime":1847.32,"body":"defined. When you dry it off,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1847.5,"endTime":1852.3,"body":"are we rubbing our hair like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1847.5,"endTime":1852.3,"body":"that Kristin? No, no, we're not."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1852.33,"endTime":1855.39,"body":"It's gonna get frizzy, you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1852.33,"endTime":1855.39,"body":"gonna be looking a mess. You"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1855.39,"endTime":1859.56,"body":"scrunch scrunch the towel. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1855.39,"endTime":1859.56,"body":"then I just use like a Curl"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1859.56,"endTime":1861.81,"body":"Cream. I've talked to a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1859.56,"endTime":1861.81,"body":"different people with curly"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1861.81,"endTime":1864.87,"body":"hair, you can kind of like get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1861.81,"endTime":1864.87,"body":"recommendations, I use the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1864.87,"endTime":1868.26,"body":"cheapest Curl Cream from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1864.87,"endTime":1868.26,"body":"Walmart, it's like six bucks,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1868.29,"endTime":1874.74,"body":"called Heritage, Hairitage."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1868.29,"endTime":1874.74,"body":"That's what it is. And then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1874.74,"endTime":1878.13,"body":"just put that in, I put a little"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1874.74,"endTime":1878.13,"body":"gel in. Now this is the key. Now"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1878.13,"endTime":1882.33,"body":"you gotta wait. You wait until"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1878.13,"endTime":1882.33,"body":"it gets all shiny and crusty."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1882.99,"endTime":1886.98,"body":"And then you break the gel. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1882.99,"endTime":1886.98,"body":"you just again, it's just the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1886.98,"endTime":1890.37,"body":"scrunch. It's, it's really all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1886.98,"endTime":1890.37,"body":"the scrunch. And so sometimes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1890.37,"endTime":1892.53,"body":"I'll feel like tonight, I spent"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1890.37,"endTime":1892.53,"body":"a lot of time on my hair. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1892.53,"endTime":1895.68,"body":"didn't wait because I didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1892.53,"endTime":1895.68,"body":"have time. So I used hair dye"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1895.68,"endTime":1899.4,"body":"with a diffuser. I like dry my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1895.68,"endTime":1899.4,"body":"hair with a hairdryer. And then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1899.4,"endTime":1902.64,"body":"I put a little bit of argan oil"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1899.4,"endTime":1902.64,"body":"on my hands and then scrunched"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1902.64,"endTime":1905.28,"body":"it there and it just really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1902.64,"endTime":1905.28,"body":"makes the curls pop. So..."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1912.42,"endTime":1914.79,"body":"This is a really"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1912.42,"endTime":1914.79,"body":"important note, like Charlie was"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1914.79,"endTime":1917.64,"body":"not paid to promote any hair"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1914.79,"endTime":1917.64,"body":"products during this time."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1919.17,"endTime":1921.33,"body":"I feel like I kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1919.17,"endTime":1921.33,"body":"want to do like a tutorial on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1921.33,"endTime":1922.2,"body":"Instagram now."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1922.92,"endTime":1924.09,"body":"I would watch that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1924.12,"endTime":1925.86,"body":"But that means I have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1924.12,"endTime":1925.86,"body":"to clean my bathroom."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1928.53,"endTime":1930.69,"body":"Who else would watch"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1928.53,"endTime":1930.69,"body":"Charlie doing a hair tutorial?"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1932.97,"endTime":1941.07,"body":"Okay. So I really, really like"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1932.97,"endTime":1941.07,"body":"this question. Most of the time,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1941.07,"endTime":1944.94,"body":"I think I am straight. But then"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1941.07,"endTime":1944.94,"body":"I see women like Zendaya and"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1944.94,"endTime":1952.11,"body":"Emma Watson and then I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1944.94,"endTime":1952.11,"body":"damn, maybe not. Is this, is"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1952.11,"endTime":1955.08,"body":"this normal? Or am I not"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":1952.11,"endTime":1955.08,"body":"straight? Haha."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1958.32,"endTime":1961.74,"body":"Well, most of the time,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1958.32,"endTime":1961.74,"body":"I think I'm gay. But then I see"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1961.74,"endTime":1963.69,"body":"women like Zendaya and Emma"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1961.74,"endTime":1963.69,"body":"Watson."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1970.68,"endTime":1971.97,"body":"So those are my thoughts."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1974.06,"endTime":1980.75,"body":"So this is how I do my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1974.06,"endTime":1980.75,"body":"hair. I'm kidding You know?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1980.78,"endTime":1985.34,"body":"That's a good question. And when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1980.78,"endTime":1985.34,"body":"I see is India and Emma Watson,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1985.37,"endTime":1988.19,"body":"I don't think that so I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1985.37,"endTime":1988.19,"body":"know what that experience is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1988.19,"endTime":1998.75,"body":"like. I might be gayer than"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1988.19,"endTime":1998.75,"body":"Charlie. Solid Kinsey 6. So, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1998.75,"endTime":2002.29,"body":"know, if if you're not sure, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1998.75,"endTime":2002.29,"body":"mean, the way I knew for sure"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2002.29,"endTime":2006.43,"body":"that I was gay was I dated"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2002.29,"endTime":2006.43,"body":"women, and I kissed them. And it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2006.43,"endTime":2009.31,"body":"just, it just didn't feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2006.43,"endTime":2009.31,"body":"natural. It felt kind of yucky."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2010.45,"endTime":2013.99,"body":"And I would hold their hands and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2010.45,"endTime":2013.99,"body":"it felt really uncomfortable."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2014.23,"endTime":2016.72,"body":"And I would date them because I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2014.23,"endTime":2016.72,"body":"was supposed to. I actually"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2016.87,"endTime":2019.0,"body":"dated this girl and we like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2016.87,"endTime":2019.0,"body":"agreed that we liked each other."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2019.0,"endTime":2022.18,"body":"We're going to date and I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2019.0,"endTime":2022.18,"body":"like, now what do we do? Like it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2022.18,"endTime":2025.39,"body":"just didn't make sense to me?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2022.18,"endTime":2025.39,"body":"And so for someone who's who's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2025.42,"endTime":2027.85,"body":"thinking about their their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2025.42,"endTime":2027.85,"body":"orientation, you know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2027.85,"endTime":2030.52,"body":"know, maybe you might be a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2027.85,"endTime":2030.52,"body":"little bi? I don't know, but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2030.52,"endTime":2033.37,"body":"it's not. I think it's perfectly"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2030.52,"endTime":2033.37,"body":"normal to someone who was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2033.37,"endTime":2036.43,"body":"incredibly attractive, that you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2033.37,"endTime":2036.43,"body":"might not normally be attracted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2036.46,"endTime":2037.27,"body":"to be attracted to them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2038.23,"endTime":2041.92,"body":"And if you're a little"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2038.23,"endTime":2041.92,"body":"bi, that's awesome. Like, cool."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2041.92,"endTime":2046.6,"body":"We love it. You know? I just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2041.92,"endTime":2046.6,"body":"yeah, I don't know. I'm just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2046.6,"endTime":2049.57,"body":"thinking about like, Emma"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2046.6,"endTime":2049.57,"body":"Watson's glow up and the third"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2049.57,"endTime":2054.34,"body":"Harry Potter movie. We should"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2049.57,"endTime":2054.34,"body":"really just move on. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2054.61,"endTime":2058.24,"body":"especially cuz she was like 14,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2054.61,"endTime":2058.24,"body":"but I was also 12."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2062.35,"endTime":2064.96,"body":"It's okay, if you're a"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2062.35,"endTime":2064.96,"body":"lot bi too though, right?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2064.99,"endTime":2068.08,"body":"Yeah, a little bi, a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2064.99,"endTime":2068.08,"body":"bi, super bi."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2068.2,"endTime":2070.09,"body":"Okay, super bi."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2071.5,"endTime":2072.64,"body":"No more comments, we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2071.5,"endTime":2072.64,"body":"gonna move on."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2074.8,"endTime":2077.41,"body":"So if I'm like hearing"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2074.8,"endTime":2077.41,"body":"you correctly, the important"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2077.41,"endTime":2080.17,"body":"thing is, is if you think"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2077.41,"endTime":2080.17,"body":"Zendaya and Emma Watson are hot,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2080.2,"endTime":2083.11,"body":"don't freak out. It's normal."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2080.2,"endTime":2083.11,"body":"And if you don't, it's also"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2083.11,"endTime":2086.5,"body":"normal. Like, just like enjoy"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2083.11,"endTime":2086.5,"body":"the experience, whatever it is,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2087.07,"endTime":2087.49,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2087.75,"endTime":2089.94,"body":"Like when I see Emma Watson"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2087.75,"endTime":2089.94,"body":"or for my generation, Anne"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2089.94,"endTime":2093.03,"body":"Hathaway, I'm like, that is a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2089.94,"endTime":2093.03,"body":"very attractive woman. I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2093.03,"endTime":2096.12,"body":"want to kiss her or hold her"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2093.03,"endTime":2096.12,"body":"hand, but she's, she's very nice"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2096.12,"endTime":2096.81,"body":"to look at."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2098.79,"endTime":2101.4,"body":"So I want to know like"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2098.79,"endTime":2101.4,"body":"who do you guys think is nice to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2101.4,"endTime":2102.09,"body":"look at?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2103.35,"endTime":2105.09,"body":"Like, like the lady"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2103.35,"endTime":2105.09,"body":"celebrities?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2105.09,"endTime":2105.99,"body":"Say me, Ben. Say me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2107.13,"endTime":2107.94,"body":"Charlie Bird."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2108.75,"endTime":2111.99,"body":"I mean, we can like do"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2108.75,"endTime":2111.99,"body":"both like, I mean, just in"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2111.99,"endTime":2115.47,"body":"general people like Who do you"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2111.99,"endTime":2115.47,"body":"think are nice? Yeah, who's hot?"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2115.47,"endTime":2118.14,"body":"Who are your celebrity crushes?"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2115.47,"endTime":2118.14,"body":"Specifically,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2118.14,"endTime":2120.66,"body":"You know, most of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2118.14,"endTime":2120.66,"body":"Chris's, you know Chris Pine and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2120.66,"endTime":2124.32,"body":"Chris Evans a Chris Pratt. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2120.66,"endTime":2124.32,"body":"mean, who doesn't love a good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2124.32,"endTime":2129.45,"body":"Chris? A Jeff Goldblum in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2124.32,"endTime":2129.45,"body":"Jurassic Park? That's pretty"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2129.45,"endTime":2132.51,"body":"impressive. Yeah, I'm done now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2135.64,"endTime":2138.73,"body":"So I was always very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2135.64,"endTime":2138.73,"body":"into Jake Gyllenhaal. And I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2138.73,"endTime":2141.85,"body":"never even seen Brokeback"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2138.73,"endTime":2141.85,"body":"Mountain. It's just like, just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2142.0,"endTime":2145.24,"body":"seeing Jake on like the red"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2142.0,"endTime":2145.24,"body":"carpet and stuff. I also relate"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2145.0,"endTime":2147.04,"body":"Spider Man Far From Home."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2145.0,"endTime":2147.04,"body":"He was the best part."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2147.07,"endTime":2147.82,"body":"I had never seen it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2148.27,"endTime":2148.9,"body":"Worth watching."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2148.96,"endTime":2151.06,"body":"Is it horrible? I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2148.96,"endTime":2151.06,"body":"really like Spider Man."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2152.47,"endTime":2157.15,"body":"canceled. I'm gonna cancel."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2152.47,"endTime":2157.15,"body":"Let's see Zane from One"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2157.15,"endTime":2160.36,"body":"direction. Back in the day. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2157.15,"endTime":2160.36,"body":"was like, Ooh, that hair is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2160.36,"endTime":2167.65,"body":"perfectly quaffed. I liked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2160.36,"endTime":2167.65,"body":"Maluma for a while. He's a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2167.65,"endTime":2171.97,"body":"singer from Colombia. Speaking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2167.65,"endTime":2171.97,"body":"of Colombia, like girl-wise"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2171.97,"endTime":2175.69,"body":"Shakira is everything. Beyonce"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2171.97,"endTime":2175.69,"body":"is Queen and Taylor Swift is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2176.47,"endTime":2178.18,"body":"like, Oh, I wish I was her."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2181.96,"endTime":2184.72,"body":"So we have some former"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2181.96,"endTime":2184.72,"body":"guests here from the podcast,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2184.72,"endTime":2186.67,"body":"and I was talking to try"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2184.72,"endTime":2186.67,"body":"recording was like they are all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2186.67,"endTime":2190.9,"body":"so attractive. Like, not a dud"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2186.67,"endTime":2190.9,"body":"in the bunch. And I'm very sorry"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2190.9,"endTime":2193.36,"body":"that the podcast is audio"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2190.9,"endTime":2193.36,"body":"because we have very attractive"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2193.36,"endTime":2194.62,"body":"guests. So..."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2196.45,"endTime":2198.49,"body":"I'm thinking about them."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2196.45,"endTime":2198.49,"body":"Now. I got distracted."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2201.7,"endTime":2203.08,"body":"Sarah who do you find"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2201.7,"endTime":2203.08,"body":"attractive?"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2203.0,"endTime":2206.12,"body":"You really want to know?"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2203.0,"endTime":2206.12,"body":"I mean, obviously, oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2206.15,"endTime":2208.61,"body":"Kareem Priest, like right up"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2206.15,"endTime":2208.61,"body":"there in the front. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2208.67,"endTime":2212.09,"body":"obviously my number one, where's"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2208.67,"endTime":2212.09,"body":"Brandon? Like? That goes without"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2212.09,"endTime":2215.9,"body":"saying but celebrity like"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2212.09,"endTime":2215.9,"body":"Benedict Cumberbatch. I know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2215.9,"endTime":2219.29,"body":"guys. I know. I don't understand"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2215.9,"endTime":2219.29,"body":"it either."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2221.09,"endTime":2222.26,"body":"Sarah likes a smart man."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2222.29,"endTime":2225.11,"body":"But there's like a"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2222.29,"endTime":2225.11,"body":"visceral reaction when he starts"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2225.11,"endTime":2229.13,"body":"talking. And like, he did this"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2225.11,"endTime":2229.13,"body":"he narrated this animal like"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2229.16,"endTime":2233.06,"body":"Kingdom kind of thing. And I was"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2229.16,"endTime":2233.06,"body":"just, he wasn't even on the"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2233.06,"endTime":2233.66,"body":"screen."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2233.96,"endTime":2236.36,"body":"Okay. And the lion bit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2233.96,"endTime":2236.36,"body":"the gazelle."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2238.85,"endTime":2241.16,"body":"Attraction is"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2238.85,"endTime":2241.16,"body":"multifaceted. Okay. It's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2241.16,"endTime":2243.71,"body":"spectrum. And Benedict"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2241.16,"endTime":2243.71,"body":"Cumberbatch and my attraction"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2243.71,"endTime":2248.21,"body":"for him is like my confirmation"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2243.71,"endTime":2248.21,"body":"of that. Okay. And just like"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2248.21,"endTime":2252.2,"body":"women, like Ruby Rose does it"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2248.21,"endTime":2252.2,"body":"for me, and there's a there's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2252.2,"endTime":2258.02,"body":"list. But we'll talk about that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2252.2,"endTime":2258.02,"body":"later. So, we're gonna, like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2258.02,"endTime":2261.02,"body":"bring this back a little bit?"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2258.02,"endTime":2261.02,"body":"And this is a really good"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2261.02,"endTime":2265.85,"body":"question from Andre. So what do"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2261.02,"endTime":2265.85,"body":"you consider has been the most"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2265.85,"endTime":2269.36,"body":"important learning regarding to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2265.85,"endTime":2269.36,"body":"same sex attraction in your"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2269.36,"endTime":2275.81,"body":"life? I was a little I was just"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2269.36,"endTime":2275.81,"body":"reading that verbatim. So what"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2275.81,"endTime":2277.43,"body":"has been the most important"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2275.81,"endTime":2277.43,"body":"thing that you've learned about"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2277.43,"endTime":2278.33,"body":"your sexuality?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2278.75,"endTime":2281.15,"body":"Yeah you know, whenever we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2278.75,"endTime":2281.15,"body":"ask like a hyperbole question,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2281.15,"endTime":2282.98,"body":"like the most thing, or the most"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2281.15,"endTime":2282.98,"body":"important thing is always to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2282.98,"endTime":2285.26,"body":"kind of hard to answer. So I'll"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2282.98,"endTime":2285.26,"body":"share a couple of things that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2285.29,"endTime":2291.29,"body":"that I've really learned along"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2285.29,"endTime":2291.29,"body":"the way. I've learned that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2291.29,"endTime":2295.37,"body":"came to this earth in a specific"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2291.29,"endTime":2295.37,"body":"way. And I tried to change how I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2295.37,"endTime":2298.88,"body":"came an awful lot. And I tried"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2295.37,"endTime":2298.88,"body":"to change this in a number of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2298.88,"endTime":2301.7,"body":"ways. And one things I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2298.88,"endTime":2301.7,"body":"learned about same sex"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2301.7,"endTime":2303.71,"body":"attraction is this isn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2301.7,"endTime":2303.71,"body":"something that I was meant to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2303.71,"endTime":2306.29,"body":"change. You know, I can say a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2303.71,"endTime":2306.29,"body":"prayer about something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2306.29,"endTime":2308.66,"body":"frivolous, like, Hey, I'm kind"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2306.29,"endTime":2308.66,"body":"of lonely. I want to have a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2308.66,"endTime":2310.79,"body":"friend today, then someone will"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2308.66,"endTime":2310.79,"body":"call right away, like God"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2310.79,"endTime":2313.58,"body":"answers my prayers in really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2310.79,"endTime":2313.58,"body":"miraculous ways. And so one of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2313.58,"endTime":2315.89,"body":"the things I've learned is that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2313.58,"endTime":2315.89,"body":"as much as I wanted and tried to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2315.89,"endTime":2319.16,"body":"change this, this, my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2315.89,"endTime":2319.16,"body":"orientation isn't something that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2319.16,"endTime":2324.59,"body":"God wanted to change. And so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2319.16,"endTime":2324.59,"body":"and I, and and once I realized"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2324.59,"endTime":2327.71,"body":"that, and stopped trying to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2324.59,"endTime":2327.71,"body":"change who I was, and tried to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2327.71,"endTime":2333.11,"body":"be the best me how I was, then I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2327.71,"endTime":2333.11,"body":"really started to thrive. And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2333.11,"endTime":2334.91,"body":"I guess one of the most"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2333.11,"endTime":2334.91,"body":"important things that I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2334.91,"endTime":2339.65,"body":"learned is, is that I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2334.91,"endTime":2339.65,"body":"created for a purpose. And now"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2339.65,"endTime":2342.08,"body":"it's up to me to live my best"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2339.65,"endTime":2342.08,"body":"life the way I was created."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2349.38,"endTime":2359.16,"body":"So Ben stole my answer."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2349.38,"endTime":2359.16,"body":"I'm just thinking about, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2359.19,"endTime":2362.85,"body":"piggybacking off of that, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2359.19,"endTime":2362.85,"body":"way that who I am, has like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2362.85,"endTime":2365.7,"body":"forced me to look at me and my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2362.85,"endTime":2365.7,"body":"relationship with God and like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2365.7,"endTime":2369.27,"body":"really teach me about who Jesus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2365.7,"endTime":2369.27,"body":"Christ is. I think it's so easy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2369.27,"endTime":2373.38,"body":"to like, sing I am a child of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2369.27,"endTime":2373.38,"body":"God and primary and, and be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2373.38,"endTime":2375.66,"body":"like, yeah, Jesus knows me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2373.38,"endTime":2375.66,"body":"personally. But like, I had to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2375.66,"endTime":2380.58,"body":"come to like, a rock bottom"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2375.66,"endTime":2380.58,"body":"situation where like Christ had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2380.58,"endTime":2383.88,"body":"to know me personally. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2380.58,"endTime":2383.88,"body":"fully believe that he does. He"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2383.88,"endTime":2388.23,"body":"knows exactly what it means to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2383.88,"endTime":2388.23,"body":"be me as I am on every step of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2388.23,"endTime":2392.37,"body":"this journey. And because of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2388.23,"endTime":2392.37,"body":"that, he can like guide me. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2392.43,"endTime":2396.03,"body":"when I realized that I stopped"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2392.43,"endTime":2396.03,"body":"being afraid of myself, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2396.03,"endTime":2399.0,"body":"stopped being afraid of all the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2396.03,"endTime":2399.0,"body":"ways I could fail. Because for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2399.0,"endTime":2402.78,"body":"so long, I was just debilitated"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2399.0,"endTime":2402.78,"body":"by choice. And I felt backed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2402.78,"endTime":2407.91,"body":"into a corner. And it was either"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2402.78,"endTime":2407.91,"body":"like it was like, be gay or be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2407.91,"endTime":2412.02,"body":"religious, like, it was a corner"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2407.91,"endTime":2412.02,"body":"that I hated and stressed me out"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2412.02,"endTime":2417.84,"body":"and kept me up all night. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2412.02,"endTime":2417.84,"body":"felt like well, just to ramble a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2417.84,"endTime":2422.67,"body":"little bit, I remember watching"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2417.84,"endTime":2422.67,"body":"a story on like, the Mormon gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2422.67,"endTime":2427.41,"body":"website forever ago, and someone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2422.67,"endTime":2427.41,"body":"had like, left and dated for a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2427.41,"endTime":2431.88,"body":"few years, and then they'd like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2427.41,"endTime":2431.88,"body":"come back to the church. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2431.88,"endTime":2435.99,"body":"was like, I wish I could do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2431.88,"endTime":2435.99,"body":"that. Like, I can't believe they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2435.99,"endTime":2439.08,"body":"get to go date and have all the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2435.99,"endTime":2439.08,"body":"fun. And, and I'm just gonna,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2439.08,"endTime":2442.92,"body":"like, be lonely forever. And I'd"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2439.08,"endTime":2442.92,"body":"like I really felt like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2442.92,"endTime":2445.8,"body":"couldn't make a choice. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2442.92,"endTime":2445.8,"body":"couldn't do anything. I just had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2445.8,"endTime":2449.19,"body":"to like, live in my like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2445.8,"endTime":2449.19,"body":"strict, narrow mindset. But when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2449.19,"endTime":2452.91,"body":"I realized that Christ atoned"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2449.19,"endTime":2452.91,"body":"for us to teach us and allow us"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2452.91,"endTime":2456.45,"body":"to repent, the gift of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2452.91,"endTime":2456.45,"body":"agency became so clear, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2456.45,"endTime":2459.75,"body":"wasn't afraid to try new things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2456.45,"endTime":2459.75,"body":"and make mistakes and just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2459.75,"endTime":2462.66,"body":"constantly reassess where I was,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2459.75,"endTime":2462.66,"body":"and where I was headed. And if I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2462.66,"endTime":2466.8,"body":"liked that direction, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2462.66,"endTime":2466.8,"body":"honestly, like, who knows what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2466.8,"endTime":2470.22,"body":"any of our lives are gonna look"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2466.8,"endTime":2470.22,"body":"like, but I feel so confident"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2470.4,"endTime":2473.52,"body":"that if I'm prayerful, and like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2470.4,"endTime":2473.52,"body":"deliberate about the way I move"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2473.52,"endTime":2477.09,"body":"forward, and just trust that if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2473.52,"endTime":2477.09,"body":"I'm like, getting to a bad"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2477.09,"endTime":2481.59,"body":"place, I can get back or if I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2477.09,"endTime":2481.59,"body":"being led down a place that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2481.59,"endTime":2484.35,"body":"thought was scary, and I thought"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2481.59,"endTime":2484.35,"body":"was bad, but it's actually"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2484.35,"endTime":2488.1,"body":"feeling right, then I can do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2484.35,"endTime":2488.1,"body":"that. And I'm going to be okay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2489.41,"endTime":2491.39,"body":"Just a couple more thoughts"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2489.41,"endTime":2491.39,"body":"that I want to hear more from me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2491.39,"endTime":2496.22,"body":"about this. I hit rock bottom"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2491.39,"endTime":2496.22,"body":"when I was 30. You know, I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2496.22,"endTime":2498.71,"body":"didn't think I could be happy in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2496.22,"endTime":2498.71,"body":"the church. I think I could be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2498.71,"endTime":2502.4,"body":"happy gay. I just like there was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2498.71,"endTime":2502.4,"body":"no way forward. I was like, life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2502.4,"endTime":2506.45,"body":"was over. And I just wasn't sure"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2502.4,"endTime":2506.45,"body":"how I could move forward. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2506.45,"endTime":2509.69,"body":"was at my parents house for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2506.45,"endTime":2509.69,"body":"like, a month on on break from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2509.72,"endTime":2513.5,"body":"from my Ph. D. program. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2509.72,"endTime":2513.5,"body":"was like, done with the church."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2513.5,"endTime":2515.54,"body":"I was like, I'm out of here like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2513.5,"endTime":2515.54,"body":"this is this is just not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2515.54,"endTime":2519.05,"body":"working. But I decided I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2515.54,"endTime":2519.05,"body":"gonna give up on God. And so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2519.05,"endTime":2522.44,"body":"kept reading my scriptures and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2519.05,"endTime":2522.44,"body":"like, I gave up on the church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2522.47,"endTime":2525.86,"body":"for like, a two day period like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2522.47,"endTime":2525.86,"body":"I didn't last that long. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2525.86,"endTime":2528.89,"body":"remember reading in Matthew 26,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2525.86,"endTime":2528.89,"body":"and is the story I shared in my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2528.89,"endTime":2533.33,"body":"book. But I was I didn't notice"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2528.89,"endTime":2533.33,"body":"that Matthew 26 from crisis in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2533.33,"endTime":2536.45,"body":"the Garden of Gethsemane, he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2533.33,"endTime":2536.45,"body":"says that prayer father, that'd"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2536.45,"endTime":2539.18,"body":"be willing to let this cup pass"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2536.45,"endTime":2539.18,"body":"from me. Nevertheless, not my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2539.18,"endTime":2541.58,"body":"will, but Thine be done. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2539.18,"endTime":2541.58,"body":"think I hadn't noticed before as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2541.58,"endTime":2544.94,"body":"he made that same prayer three"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2541.58,"endTime":2544.94,"body":"times, three times. He said, Is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2544.94,"endTime":2547.58,"body":"there another way because I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2544.94,"endTime":2547.58,"body":"don't want to do this. And then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2547.58,"endTime":2550.97,"body":"it occurred to me, it's not,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2547.58,"endTime":2550.97,"body":"it's not un-Christlike. Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2550.97,"endTime":2553.1,"body":"it's a Christ like thing to not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2550.97,"endTime":2553.1,"body":"want to do something too hard."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2553.85,"endTime":2556.13,"body":"And if the Savior did want to do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2553.85,"endTime":2556.13,"body":"something hard, it's okay for me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2556.13,"endTime":2558.65,"body":"to not want to do something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2556.13,"endTime":2558.65,"body":"hard. But then it's up to me to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2558.65,"endTime":2561.29,"body":"say, Okay, father, no, no, what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2558.65,"endTime":2561.29,"body":"cup Are you offering me? Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2561.29,"endTime":2565.28,"body":"what do you want me to drink?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2561.29,"endTime":2565.28,"body":"And that became my prayer. My"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2565.28,"endTime":2568.01,"body":"prayer wasn't How do I move"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2565.28,"endTime":2568.01,"body":"forward? But like, God, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2568.04,"endTime":2570.65,"body":"what are you offering to me?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2568.04,"endTime":2570.65,"body":"Like, what are you offering me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2570.65,"endTime":2574.46,"body":"in this life. And as I did that,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2570.65,"endTime":2574.46,"body":"life started to get a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2574.46,"endTime":2577.58,"body":"brighter. And I started to find"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2574.46,"endTime":2577.58,"body":"and like, like, little pinpricks"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2577.58,"endTime":2581.03,"body":"of light starts showing up in my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2577.58,"endTime":2581.03,"body":"life, and I started to be able"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2581.03,"endTime":2583.22,"body":"to move forward in a way that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2581.03,"endTime":2583.22,"body":"that that really got me to a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2583.22,"endTime":2586.16,"body":"thriving place, but it was, it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2583.22,"endTime":2586.16,"body":"was hard work. And that's one of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2586.16,"endTime":2589.37,"body":"things I've really learned from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2586.16,"endTime":2589.37,"body":"from my sexual orientation is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2589.4,"endTime":2593.15,"body":"that it's a really normal thing,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2589.4,"endTime":2593.15,"body":"to not want to have the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2593.15,"endTime":2595.61,"body":"situation that you've been that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2593.15,"endTime":2595.61,"body":"you've been given to not want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2595.67,"endTime":2598.61,"body":"play the cards you've been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2595.67,"endTime":2598.61,"body":"dealt. But it is a Christ like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2598.61,"endTime":2600.71,"body":"thing to figure out what God"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2598.61,"endTime":2600.71,"body":"wants you to do in that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2600.71,"endTime":2603.83,"body":"situation. And the last thing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2600.71,"endTime":2603.83,"body":"I'm gonna mention is, I'm one of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2603.83,"endTime":2605.75,"body":"the most privileged people on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2603.83,"endTime":2605.75,"body":"the planet, like I'm a tall,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2605.75,"endTime":2608.72,"body":"white, English speaking,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2605.75,"endTime":2608.72,"body":"educated male with hair. And,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2608.84,"endTime":2611.96,"body":"and, and the only way I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2608.84,"endTime":2611.96,"body":"privileged is with my sexual"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2611.96,"endTime":2614.18,"body":"orientation. That's something"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2611.96,"endTime":2614.18,"body":"that I can hide if I need to."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2614.75,"endTime":2618.59,"body":"And just being a little bit of a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2614.75,"endTime":2618.59,"body":"minority, has really helped me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2618.59,"endTime":2621.35,"body":"to have a lot more compassion,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2618.59,"endTime":2621.35,"body":"not as much compassion as I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2621.38,"endTime":2623.69,"body":"probably should have or need to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2621.38,"endTime":2623.69,"body":"have. But it's given me a lot"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2623.69,"endTime":2626.12,"body":"more compassion for people who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2623.69,"endTime":2626.12,"body":"feel different and marginalized,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2626.24,"endTime":2629.36,"body":"which, as I've learned, tends to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2626.24,"endTime":2629.36,"body":"be most people at some point."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2629.69,"endTime":2633.89,"body":"And I've just learned so much"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2629.69,"endTime":2633.89,"body":"about so many people. As I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2633.89,"endTime":2636.11,"body":"opened up, they've opened up and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2633.89,"endTime":2636.11,"body":"I've just learned all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2636.11,"endTime":2637.31,"body":"things. That's been a real gift."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2638.11,"endTime":2640.87,"body":"Thank you, Ben. Thank"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2638.11,"endTime":2640.87,"body":"you, Charlie. We kind of touched"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2640.87,"endTime":2643.6,"body":"on this at the beginning, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2640.87,"endTime":2643.6,"body":"there are a lot of people that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2643.6,"endTime":2646.93,"body":"assume a lot of things about the"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2643.6,"endTime":2646.93,"body":"both of you. they assign a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2646.93,"endTime":2650.41,"body":"of nefariousness or"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2646.93,"endTime":2650.41,"body":"maliciousness or just general"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2650.41,"endTime":2653.17,"body":"ignorance. And as you said, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2650.41,"endTime":2653.17,"body":"mean, you've written books,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2653.17,"endTime":2658.57,"body":"you've podcasted, these people"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2653.17,"endTime":2658.57,"body":"that have no problem with you,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2658.6,"endTime":2662.02,"body":"maybe we'll label them your"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2658.6,"endTime":2662.02,"body":"haters, like, What do you wish"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2662.02,"endTime":2664.87,"body":"that they knew that they don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2662.02,"endTime":2664.87,"body":"seem to know about you?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2668.92,"endTime":2671.62,"body":"I just you know, my story"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2668.92,"endTime":2671.62,"body":"is everywhere. Like you can read"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2671.62,"endTime":2673.63,"body":"my blog, you listen to the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2671.62,"endTime":2673.63,"body":"podcast, you can read my book,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2673.63,"endTime":2675.97,"body":"you can see my TED talk, you can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2673.63,"endTime":2675.97,"body":"come talk to me personally, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2675.97,"endTime":2678.82,"body":"my story is not hidden. Like it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2675.97,"endTime":2678.82,"body":"is very easy to know me if you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2678.82,"endTime":2682.03,"body":"want to know me, as I just wish"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2678.82,"endTime":2682.03,"body":"people would get to know me. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2682.03,"endTime":2686.05,"body":"there's the song that that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2682.03,"endTime":2686.05,"body":"from Steven Universe. I haven't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2686.05,"endTime":2688.93,"body":"even seen it the show. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2686.05,"endTime":2688.93,"body":"there's a song that I don't need"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2688.93,"endTime":2692.23,"body":"you to love me. I love me. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2688.93,"endTime":2692.23,"body":"don't have to go. I need to love"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2692.23,"endTime":2694.57,"body":"me. I love me. I don't need you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2692.23,"endTime":2694.57,"body":"to accept me accept me. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2694.57,"endTime":2697.27,"body":"want you to know if you could"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2694.57,"endTime":2697.27,"body":"know me you change your mind."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2698.5,"endTime":2700.9,"body":"Something like that. I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2698.5,"endTime":2700.9,"body":"paraphrasing but you know, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2700.9,"endTime":2703.57,"body":"think that if people really got"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2700.9,"endTime":2703.57,"body":"to know me, they love me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2704.2,"endTime":2706.9,"body":"Because there's not a person"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2704.2,"endTime":2706.9,"body":"that I've really gotten to know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2706.9,"endTime":2709.99,"body":"that I don't love. Like, there's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2706.9,"endTime":2709.99,"body":"not some, like there's no"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2709.99,"endTime":2713.53,"body":"unlovable person. And even the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2709.99,"endTime":2713.53,"body":"person who seems like the most"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2713.53,"endTime":2715.78,"body":"boring or the most mean, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2713.53,"endTime":2715.78,"body":"really get to know them, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2715.78,"endTime":2718.33,"body":"they are awesome. Like everyone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2715.78,"endTime":2718.33,"body":"is worth loving. And it's like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2718.33,"endTime":2721.39,"body":"CS Lewis said, you won't look"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2718.33,"endTime":2721.39,"body":"into the eyes of someone that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2721.39,"endTime":2724.24,"body":"God doesn't love. And as I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2721.39,"endTime":2724.24,"body":"gotten to know, more people,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2724.24,"endTime":2726.94,"body":"I've noticed that and really,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2724.24,"endTime":2726.94,"body":"really seen that. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2726.94,"endTime":2730.21,"body":"I had these BYU students come by"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2726.94,"endTime":2730.21,"body":"my office all the time. More"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2730.21,"endTime":2732.46,"body":"often than not, I'm the first"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2730.21,"endTime":2732.46,"body":"person that come out to that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2732.46,"endTime":2734.74,"body":"happened at least a dozen times"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2732.46,"endTime":2734.74,"body":"in my office and the first"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2734.74,"endTime":2738.34,"body":"person that they share their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2734.74,"endTime":2738.34,"body":"orientation with. And it's such"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2738.34,"endTime":2740.41,"body":"a sacred experience for me to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2738.34,"endTime":2740.41,"body":"have this stranger come in. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2740.41,"endTime":2744.52,"body":"trust me with this information."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2740.41,"endTime":2744.52,"body":"And, you know, I have tried to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2744.52,"endTime":2748.3,"body":"share my life with other people."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2744.52,"endTime":2748.3,"body":"And I really think that if they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2748.3,"endTime":2751.72,"body":"really got to know me that they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2748.3,"endTime":2751.72,"body":"would love me. And the other"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2751.72,"endTime":2755.83,"body":"thing is, I tried really hard to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2751.72,"endTime":2755.83,"body":"be humble, I love attention."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2755.86,"endTime":2757.96,"body":"Like, I'm just a naturally"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2755.86,"endTime":2757.96,"body":"prideful person who loves"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2757.96,"endTime":2761.44,"body":"attention and praise. And I have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2757.96,"endTime":2761.44,"body":"an I just been like, so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2761.44,"endTime":2764.74,"body":"intentional about how I share my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2761.44,"endTime":2764.74,"body":"story and how we do this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2764.74,"endTime":2767.26,"body":"podcast, so that I'm doing it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2764.74,"endTime":2767.26,"body":"for the right reasons to quote"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2767.26,"endTime":2770.89,"body":"the Bachelor in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2767.26,"endTime":2770.89,"body":"Bachelorette. You know, to just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2770.89,"endTime":2773.02,"body":"like, really do this for the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2770.89,"endTime":2773.02,"body":"right reasons like to make sure"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2773.02,"endTime":2776.32,"body":"that it's not about me, it's not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2773.02,"endTime":2776.32,"body":"about Charlie. It's about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2776.35,"endTime":2780.67,"body":"education, and elevating other"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2776.35,"endTime":2780.67,"body":"people's stories. And so I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2780.7,"endTime":2782.95,"body":"hope that they can see like, my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2780.7,"endTime":2782.95,"body":"heart is in the right place. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2782.95,"endTime":2785.89,"body":"if I'm doing something wrong, if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2782.95,"endTime":2785.89,"body":"I'm hurting people, like I want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2785.89,"endTime":2787.12,"body":"to know that and I want to do it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2785.89,"endTime":2787.12,"body":"better."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2788.38,"endTime":2790.66,"body":"Thank you, Ben. Charlie."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2793.6,"endTime":2798.7,"body":"Everything Ben said"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2793.6,"endTime":2798.7,"body":"resonates with me, almost 100%"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2798.73,"endTime":2804.13,"body":"I, I find it so interesting."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2798.73,"endTime":2804.13,"body":"Like, it's, I guess I would want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2804.13,"endTime":2809.41,"body":"them to know that. I'm not like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2804.13,"endTime":2809.41,"body":"invincible, I'm not some sort of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2809.41,"endTime":2813.4,"body":"like bulletproof shield. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2809.41,"endTime":2813.4,"body":"get feedback a lot from a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2813.4,"endTime":2816.04,"body":"different people and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2813.4,"endTime":2816.04,"body":"sides. And it's very easy to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2816.04,"endTime":2820.21,"body":"like, send me a message or like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2816.04,"endTime":2820.21,"body":"have someone tell me something."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2820.6,"endTime":2824.77,"body":"And I feel like I'm just like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2820.6,"endTime":2824.77,"body":"hurt multiple times every day."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2824.77,"endTime":2828.91,"body":"And I'm, and honestly, maybe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2824.77,"endTime":2828.91,"body":"it's like a bit of a Savior"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2828.91,"endTime":2832.75,"body":"complex. But I just feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2828.91,"endTime":2832.75,"body":"I'm taking arrows in the back"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2832.75,"endTime":2836.32,"body":"hoping that they don't hit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2832.75,"endTime":2836.32,"body":"somebody else sometimes. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2836.35,"endTime":2840.46,"body":"it's hard for me to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2836.35,"endTime":2840.46,"body":"misunderstood. Like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2840.46,"endTime":2843.67,"body":"know what it looks like to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2840.46,"endTime":2843.67,"body":"people, if I'm like, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2843.67,"endTime":2846.34,"body":"pretty happy person, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2843.67,"endTime":2846.34,"body":"optimistic. I'm positive. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2846.34,"endTime":2850.75,"body":"like, it hurts to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2846.34,"endTime":2850.75,"body":"misunderstood. And that can come"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2850.75,"endTime":2854.17,"body":"in like the simplest of ways,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2850.75,"endTime":2854.17,"body":"like, when I'm accused of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2854.17,"endTime":2857.47,"body":"something, I don't believe, or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2854.17,"endTime":2857.47,"body":"when I've worked really hard,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2857.47,"endTime":2862.09,"body":"and to not make it appear like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2857.47,"endTime":2862.09,"body":"am a certain way or I believe a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2862.09,"endTime":2866.23,"body":"certain thing. And then just out"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2862.09,"endTime":2866.23,"body":"of like not knowing me, someone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2866.23,"endTime":2869.08,"body":"will just assume that based on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2866.23,"endTime":2869.08,"body":"my positionality whether it's in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2869.08,"endTime":2871.54,"body":"a gay space, or a religious"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2869.08,"endTime":2871.54,"body":"space, and I just feel like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2872.53,"endTime":2875.38,"body":"like, it's so crazy to me that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2872.53,"endTime":2875.38,"body":"in the same day, I can be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2875.38,"endTime":2878.29,"body":"accused of being like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2875.38,"endTime":2878.29,"body":"malicious church puppet who's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2878.29,"endTime":2881.23,"body":"brainwashed and also like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2878.29,"endTime":2881.23,"body":"servant of Satan, who's gonna"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2881.23,"endTime":2885.76,"body":"rot in hell, I'm like, I, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2881.23,"endTime":2885.76,"body":"know, and I think that just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2885.76,"endTime":2891.85,"body":"like, shows how difficult this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2885.76,"endTime":2891.85,"body":"space is. And I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2891.85,"endTime":2894.55,"body":"that's kind of sad. But yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2891.85,"endTime":2894.55,"body":"get hurt. And I just have to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2894.55,"endTime":2898.96,"body":"keep reminding myself that like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2894.55,"endTime":2898.96,"body":"people, like the anger is a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2898.96,"endTime":2904.51,"body":"secondary emotion to pain. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2898.96,"endTime":2904.51,"body":"try not to let that keep me from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2904.51,"endTime":2910.12,"body":"doing what I feel called to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2904.51,"endTime":2910.12,"body":"And being strategic about the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2910.12,"endTime":2913.33,"body":"way I present myself in a way"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2910.12,"endTime":2913.33,"body":"that's going to build a bridge"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2913.42,"endTime":2916.69,"body":"and not thrust me to either"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2913.42,"endTime":2916.69,"body":"side, because I'm so sick of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2916.69,"endTime":2918.28,"body":"sides, like I can't do it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2916.69,"endTime":2918.28,"body":"anymore."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2919.6,"endTime":2921.88,"body":"And you know, there's a way"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2919.6,"endTime":2921.88,"body":"to provide feedback, that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2921.88,"endTime":2923.68,"body":"appropriately if you say,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2921.88,"endTime":2923.68,"body":"Charlie, you're an idiot, or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2923.68,"endTime":2925.87,"body":"Charlie, you're bad. Or Charlie,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2923.68,"endTime":2925.87,"body":"you're murdering people. Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2925.87,"endTime":2929.44,"body":"that's not helpful. But if you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2925.87,"endTime":2929.44,"body":"say, hey, Charlie, I read these"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2929.44,"endTime":2932.41,"body":"posts, you, you you've put up"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2929.44,"endTime":2932.41,"body":"about church leaders, and maybe"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2932.41,"endTime":2935.17,"body":"you hadn't considered this, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2932.41,"endTime":2935.17,"body":"know, that's a way to provide"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2935.17,"endTime":2938.11,"body":"feedback in a way that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2935.17,"endTime":2938.11,"body":"constructive. And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2938.14,"endTime":2941.14,"body":"Charlie and I legitimately want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2938.14,"endTime":2941.14,"body":"to be better. And so if people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2941.14,"endTime":2943.6,"body":"can provide us feedback, we will"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2941.14,"endTime":2943.6,"body":"be better, like, we'll do our"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2943.6,"endTime":2946.36,"body":"best. But we don't need to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2943.6,"endTime":2946.36,"body":"attacked to be better."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2947.32,"endTime":2949.51,"body":"Thank you, Ben. Thank"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2947.32,"endTime":2949.51,"body":"you, Charlie. And I know this"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2949.51,"endTime":2952.18,"body":"was a question for them. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2949.51,"endTime":2952.18,"body":"just gonna say, I just want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2952.18,"endTime":2957.85,"body":"see something. Ben and Charlie"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2952.18,"endTime":2957.85,"body":"obviously have like the unhappy"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2957.85,"endTime":2961.39,"body":"responsibility of having a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2957.85,"endTime":2961.39,"body":"of people on every side of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2961.39,"endTime":2965.92,"body":"conversation, have an issue with"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2961.39,"endTime":2965.92,"body":"them at some point. And as like"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2965.92,"endTime":2969.22,"body":"a member of this community, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2965.92,"endTime":2969.22,"body":"wish that we would do a better"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2969.22,"endTime":2973.6,"body":"job of giving grace to each"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2969.22,"endTime":2973.6,"body":"other and do a better job of"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2974.56,"endTime":2977.98,"body":"understanding where people are"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2974.56,"endTime":2977.98,"body":"coming from. We know better than"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2977.98,"endTime":2980.56,"body":"anyone else, what it's like to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2977.98,"endTime":2980.56,"body":"be a minority and what minority"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2980.56,"endTime":2984.7,"body":"stress does. And what that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2980.56,"endTime":2984.7,"body":"further re emphasized when your"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2984.7,"endTime":2988.87,"body":"own community is criticizing you"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2984.7,"endTime":2988.87,"body":"or rejecting you. Again, there's"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2988.87,"endTime":2992.47,"body":"nothing wrong with feedback. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2988.87,"endTime":2992.47,"body":"just, it really frustrates me."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2993.64,"endTime":2996.85,"body":"It like hurts me as their friend"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2993.64,"endTime":2996.85,"body":"or hurts me as an individual."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2997.21,"endTime":3001.71,"body":"Not all 130 of these questions"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":2997.21,"endTime":3001.71,"body":"were the nicest Questions. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3001.71,"endTime":3005.1,"body":"was cognizant of that, and I"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3001.71,"endTime":3005.1,"body":"hated. And I still hate the fact"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3005.1,"endTime":3008.07,"body":"that I haven't let Ben and"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3005.1,"endTime":3008.07,"body":"Charlie see all these questions."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3008.58,"endTime":3011.46,"body":"I told them that I wasn't gonna"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3008.58,"endTime":3011.46,"body":"let them see an anonymous form,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3011.79,"endTime":3015.39,"body":"until I'd seen all of it. And it"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3011.79,"endTime":3015.39,"body":"frustrates me that I had to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3015.39,"endTime":3018.54,"body":"that, that in 2021, I had to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3015.39,"endTime":3018.54,"body":"that because of a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3018.57,"endTime":3021.57,"body":"on every side of this"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3018.57,"endTime":3021.57,"body":"conversation. So we just invite"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3021.57,"endTime":3026.94,"body":"you to consider how you might be"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3021.57,"endTime":3026.94,"body":"further reinforcing a bad"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3026.94,"endTime":3028.08,"body":"communication problem."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3029.92,"endTime":3031.39,"body":"Just one thing I want to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3029.92,"endTime":3031.39,"body":"say was that you know, Sarah,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3031.42,"endTime":3034.69,"body":"Sarah has been, she's one of my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3031.42,"endTime":3034.69,"body":"closest friends. And she's been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3034.69,"endTime":3037.0,"body":"a very good shield for this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3034.69,"endTime":3037.0,"body":"event, like shielding us from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3037.0,"endTime":3039.55,"body":"the mean questions, the rest,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3037.0,"endTime":3039.55,"body":"I'm sure, it's all stuff I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3039.55,"endTime":3042.91,"body":"heard before. And it's really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3039.55,"endTime":3042.91,"body":"kind when people are shields."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3043.6,"endTime":3046.81,"body":"But I don't want anyone to put"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3043.6,"endTime":3046.81,"body":"energy into trying to shield us"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3046.81,"endTime":3050.08,"body":"from hard things. Like, we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3046.81,"endTime":3050.08,"body":"gonna be okay, we have each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3050.08,"endTime":3053.83,"body":"other, you know, you'll put your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3050.08,"endTime":3053.83,"body":"energy into doing what you can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3053.95,"endTime":3057.16,"body":"in your sphere. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3053.95,"endTime":3057.16,"body":"that is kind as it is to be a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3057.16,"endTime":3060.67,"body":"shield to us, you know, probably"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3057.16,"endTime":3060.67,"body":"just sharing your story, the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3060.67,"endTime":3063.34,"body":"stories that the people you love"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3060.67,"endTime":3063.34,"body":"might do might do better than"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3063.34,"endTime":3064.87,"body":"that put your energy into"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3063.34,"endTime":3064.87,"body":"shielding us."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3065.41,"endTime":3073.06,"body":"Thank you. Thank you from"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3065.41,"endTime":3073.06,"body":"a shield. This is a really good"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3073.06,"endTime":3074.8,"body":"question. And you kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3073.06,"endTime":3074.8,"body":"answered it in one of your"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3074.8,"endTime":3078.82,"body":"episodes. But I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3074.8,"endTime":3078.82,"body":"good one to point out again. If"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3078.82,"endTime":3082.69,"body":"I suspect a friend might be"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3078.82,"endTime":3082.69,"body":"LGBTQ+, but they haven't quite"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3082.69,"endTime":3086.17,"body":"come to terms with it or come"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3082.69,"endTime":3086.17,"body":"out to themselves. How can I"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3086.17,"endTime":3090.01,"body":"establish myself as an ally"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3086.17,"endTime":3090.01,"body":"slash safe space? So they feel"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3090.01,"endTime":3092.65,"body":"comfortable coming out to me in"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3090.01,"endTime":3092.65,"body":"the future? Is it ever"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3092.65,"endTime":3095.74,"body":"appropriate for me to bring it"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3092.65,"endTime":3095.74,"body":"up to them prior to them coming"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3095.74,"endTime":3096.43,"body":"out to me?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3097.8,"endTime":3101.22,"body":"So this is all about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3097.8,"endTime":3101.22,"body":"the Ann approach. And Ann is my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3101.22,"endTime":3106.17,"body":"sister. She's three years older"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3101.22,"endTime":3106.17,"body":"than me. And I was trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3106.17,"endTime":3111.54,"body":"date like all the Cougarettes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3106.17,"endTime":3111.54,"body":"when I was Cosmo. Because I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3111.54,"endTime":3117.72,"body":"like, I was like, they must be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3111.54,"endTime":3117.72,"body":"the best. Like, I'll go after"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3117.72,"endTime":3121.11,"body":"the Cougarettes, because yeah,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3117.72,"endTime":3121.11,"body":"and so but it like wasn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3121.11,"endTime":3125.28,"body":"working. And I don't know, I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3121.11,"endTime":3125.28,"body":"I was dating girls. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3125.28,"endTime":3130.68,"body":"like, boasting how great my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3125.28,"endTime":3130.68,"body":"dates were because I was like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3130.68,"endTime":3134.28,"body":"super overcompensating. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3130.68,"endTime":3134.28,"body":"trying to hide that I was gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3134.28,"endTime":3137.64,"body":"slash really trying to make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3134.28,"endTime":3137.64,"body":"something work with a girl. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3137.64,"endTime":3141.06,"body":"I was talking to my sister, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3137.64,"endTime":3141.06,"body":"she was just like, something is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3141.06,"endTime":3145.8,"body":"totally off here. Like I had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3141.06,"endTime":3145.8,"body":"been on like, 11 dates with this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3145.8,"endTime":3150.87,"body":"girl. And like, hadn't held her"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3145.8,"endTime":3150.87,"body":"hand or like, touched her. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3150.87,"endTime":3154.47,"body":"my sister was like, Huh, but she"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3150.87,"endTime":3154.47,"body":"didn't say anything about it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3154.47,"endTime":3158.13,"body":"She, she just watched me for a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3154.47,"endTime":3158.13,"body":"while and was like, I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3158.13,"endTime":3162.78,"body":"Charlie might be gay. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3158.13,"endTime":3162.78,"body":"gonna figure out the best way"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3162.78,"endTime":3165.54,"body":"that a sister can support a gay"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3162.78,"endTime":3165.54,"body":"brother, and I'm going to show"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3165.54,"endTime":3168.36,"body":"him that I'm safe until he's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3165.54,"endTime":3168.36,"body":"ready to tell me. And if he's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3168.36,"endTime":3171.9,"body":"not gay, then I'll be a better"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3168.36,"endTime":3171.9,"body":"person. So that's what she did."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3171.9,"endTime":3175.86,"body":"And so she just started like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3171.9,"endTime":3175.86,"body":"researching and looking at blogs"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3175.86,"endTime":3178.35,"body":"and stories and asking people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3175.86,"endTime":3178.35,"body":"about their experiences and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3178.35,"endTime":3181.95,"body":"became like a super powerful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3178.35,"endTime":3181.95,"body":"ally. And I had no idea. In the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3181.95,"endTime":3184.65,"body":"meantime, I'm super stressed. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3181.95,"endTime":3184.65,"body":"feel like my family might reject"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3184.65,"endTime":3188.43,"body":"me, I can't tell anyone. But Ann"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3184.65,"endTime":3188.43,"body":"started doing the an approach,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3188.85,"endTime":3193.5,"body":"which was just like sending"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3188.85,"endTime":3193.5,"body":"small organic messages to me to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3193.5,"endTime":3197.79,"body":"say that if I'm gay, I'm safe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3193.5,"endTime":3197.79,"body":"with her. And the most powerful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3197.79,"endTime":3200.79,"body":"one of those came as a text to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3197.79,"endTime":3200.79,"body":"me and my little brother, and my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3200.79,"endTime":3204.78,"body":"little brother is notoriously"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3200.79,"endTime":3204.78,"body":"straight. Like, follow him on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3204.78,"endTime":3207.51,"body":"Instagram. He's like, very"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3204.78,"endTime":3207.51,"body":"attractive. He's everything I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3207.51,"endTime":3210.18,"body":"ever wanted to be the straight"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3207.51,"endTime":3210.18,"body":"basketball star from the high"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3210.18,"endTime":3216.15,"body":"school. And he just, he's just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3210.18,"endTime":3216.15,"body":"very not gay. And she, but she"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3216.15,"endTime":3219.57,"body":"included us both in a group"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3216.15,"endTime":3219.57,"body":"text. And like talked a lot. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3219.57,"endTime":3224.22,"body":"part of that message was to say,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3219.57,"endTime":3224.22,"body":"look, if you're struggling with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3224.22,"endTime":3226.71,"body":"anything, if there's anything"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3224.22,"endTime":3226.71,"body":"about you that you don't like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3226.74,"endTime":3229.98,"body":"she listed a few things just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3226.74,"endTime":3229.98,"body":"like if you're gay, or you feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3230.22,"endTime":3233.01,"body":"attracted to your same sex at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3230.22,"endTime":3233.01,"body":"any level, and you feel ashamed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3233.01,"endTime":3235.59,"body":"of that, please know that I love"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3233.01,"endTime":3235.59,"body":"you and nothing changes. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3235.59,"endTime":3238.86,"body":"want to help you know, my little"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3235.59,"endTime":3238.86,"body":"brother got that message. It was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3238.86,"endTime":3245.16,"body":"like, cool, Ann thanks, love you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3238.86,"endTime":3245.16,"body":"too. And I got that message. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3245.16,"endTime":3251.73,"body":"I was like, I'm safe. And she, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3245.16,"endTime":3251.73,"body":"just think she was so tactful."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3251.73,"endTime":3256.71,"body":"And the way she saw a potential"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3251.73,"endTime":3256.71,"body":"situation and prepared herself"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3256.71,"endTime":3259.89,"body":"for it and did it in a way that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3256.71,"endTime":3259.89,"body":"didn't force me or pry it out of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3259.89,"endTime":3264.45,"body":"me or make me feel uncomfortable"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3259.89,"endTime":3264.45,"body":"or like defensive, but she just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3264.48,"endTime":3267.57,"body":"offered herself as a safe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3264.48,"endTime":3267.57,"body":"channel of support where I could"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3267.57,"endTime":3271.26,"body":"go if I needed it. And then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3267.57,"endTime":3271.26,"body":"did. And she was my first family"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3271.26,"endTime":3274.11,"body":"member I came out to and helped"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3271.26,"endTime":3274.11,"body":"me a ton as I was dealing with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3274.11,"endTime":3277.86,"body":"some of the most difficult years"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3274.11,"endTime":3277.86,"body":"of my life. So I would not ever"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3277.86,"endTime":3281.28,"body":"really point blank ask someone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3277.86,"endTime":3281.28,"body":"if they're gay. But if you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3281.28,"endTime":3284.82,"body":"concerned about their well"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3281.28,"endTime":3284.82,"body":"being, that's a great way to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3284.82,"endTime":3285.27,"body":"start."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3286.53,"endTime":3289.35,"body":"And I echo that like I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3286.53,"endTime":3289.35,"body":"think it's generally the wrong"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3289.35,"endTime":3291.69,"body":"choice to ask someone if they're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3289.35,"endTime":3291.69,"body":"gay or asked what their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3291.69,"endTime":3294.54,"body":"orientation or gender identity."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3291.69,"endTime":3294.54,"body":"When I was living in Tucson,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3294.54,"endTime":3296.97,"body":"I've been out for a couple of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3294.54,"endTime":3296.97,"body":"years. So it's like close"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3296.97,"endTime":3299.79,"body":"friends and some family members."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3296.97,"endTime":3299.79,"body":"And I was at a point where like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3299.79,"endTime":3302.76,"body":"one To come up more of a silver"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3299.79,"endTime":3302.76,"body":"is scary. And ever one night I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3302.76,"endTime":3305.37,"body":"was playing Mario Kart with some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3302.76,"endTime":3305.37,"body":"of my friends. And we were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3305.37,"endTime":3308.76,"body":"talking about LGBTQ issues in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3305.37,"endTime":3308.76,"body":"the church, and I was giving a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3308.76,"endTime":3312.6,"body":"lot of opinions and, and and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3308.76,"endTime":3312.6,"body":"could tell this one guy thought"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3312.6,"endTime":3316.62,"body":"I was gay. And I honestly I wish"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3312.6,"endTime":3316.62,"body":"he had said, you know, Ben, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3316.62,"endTime":3318.66,"body":"know a lot of people in church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3316.62,"endTime":3318.66,"body":"experience same sex attraction,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3318.66,"endTime":3320.67,"body":"is that something you've been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3318.66,"endTime":3320.67,"body":"experiencing? Like if he had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3320.67,"endTime":3322.41,"body":"said that I would have liked"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3320.67,"endTime":3322.41,"body":"that would have been like such a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3322.41,"endTime":3324.21,"body":"weight off my shoulder when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3322.41,"endTime":3324.21,"body":"like, Yes, I've been wanting to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3324.21,"endTime":3327.21,"body":"share this. I haven't. But yet,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3324.21,"endTime":3327.21,"body":"if he had said, Are you gay? I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3327.21,"endTime":3331.26,"body":"like, No, no, no, that's not me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3327.21,"endTime":3331.26,"body":"And so it's very difficult. It's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3331.26,"endTime":3333.75,"body":"very difficult, because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3331.26,"endTime":3333.75,"body":"sometimes I think it's, there"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3333.75,"endTime":3336.84,"body":"are people who want to talk, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3333.75,"endTime":3336.84,"body":"I think it would help them if we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3336.84,"endTime":3339.87,"body":"asked, but I think the default"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3336.84,"endTime":3339.87,"body":"should be let's not ask. Let's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3339.87,"endTime":3342.45,"body":"wait till they're ready. But if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3339.87,"endTime":3342.45,"body":"for some reason, the spirit"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3342.45,"endTime":3345.09,"body":"prompts you to ask someone a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3342.45,"endTime":3345.09,"body":"question, you'll ask for their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3345.09,"endTime":3347.34,"body":"consent. Is it okay, if I ask"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3345.09,"endTime":3347.34,"body":"you a really personal question?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3347.58,"endTime":3351.09,"body":"They say yes, you know, you can"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3347.58,"endTime":3351.09,"body":"really soften it. You know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3351.09,"endTime":3353.73,"body":"there are a lot of people who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3351.09,"endTime":3353.73,"body":"are gay in the church is that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3353.73,"endTime":3355.86,"body":"something you've been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3353.73,"endTime":3355.86,"body":"experiencing? But I think for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3355.86,"endTime":3358.17,"body":"the most part, it's it's not the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3355.86,"endTime":3358.17,"body":"right thing to ask. Wait for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3358.17,"endTime":3358.68,"body":"them to be ready."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3359.62,"endTime":3362.44,"body":"It also what you said"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3359.62,"endTime":3362.44,"body":"reminded me of something that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3362.44,"endTime":3366.01,"body":"our guest, Eli McCann said, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3362.44,"endTime":3366.01,"body":"I think it was like, how should"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3366.01,"endTime":3369.43,"body":"I come on to my family. But he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3366.01,"endTime":3369.43,"body":"said, when someone comes out to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3369.43,"endTime":3372.7,"body":"you, it's not bad news. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3369.43,"endTime":3372.7,"body":"think that's such a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3372.7,"endTime":3376.0,"body":"thing to remember, like, being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3372.7,"endTime":3376.0,"body":"authentically who you are, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3376.0,"endTime":3378.58,"body":"sharing that with another"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3376.0,"endTime":3378.58,"body":"individual is so beautiful."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3378.58,"endTime":3380.71,"body":"There's like a communion and a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3378.58,"endTime":3380.71,"body":"connection there. And it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3380.71,"endTime":3384.64,"body":"something to celebrate and be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3380.71,"endTime":3384.64,"body":"proud of. And in our culture, a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3384.64,"endTime":3388.9,"body":"lot of times someone is coming"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3384.64,"endTime":3388.9,"body":"to the coming out moment with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3388.9,"endTime":3393.07,"body":"this, like, this scared, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3388.9,"endTime":3393.07,"body":"I'm going to be rejected, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3393.07,"endTime":3395.35,"body":"going to be hurt. And they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3393.07,"endTime":3395.35,"body":"going to be, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3395.35,"endTime":3399.19,"body":"disappoint someone I love. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3395.35,"endTime":3399.19,"body":"if you can just be like, just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3399.19,"endTime":3401.92,"body":"express love and make it a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3399.19,"endTime":3401.92,"body":"positive thing, like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3401.92,"endTime":3404.38,"body":"celebratory moment that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3401.92,"endTime":3404.38,"body":"someone's willing to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3404.38,"endTime":3407.44,"body":"themselves. That's super good,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3404.38,"endTime":3407.44,"body":"too."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3408.8,"endTime":3411.68,"body":"Thank you, Ben. Thank"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3408.8,"endTime":3411.68,"body":"you, Charlie. So you've recorded"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3411.68,"endTime":3414.8,"body":"a lot of episodes. I know you"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3411.68,"endTime":3414.8,"body":"love all of them, and they were"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3414.8,"endTime":3419.27,"body":"great. But is there an episode"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3414.8,"endTime":3419.27,"body":"that was especially impactful"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3419.27,"endTime":3421.58,"body":"for you? And if it was why?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3421.0,"endTime":3426.61,"body":"Yeah, honestly, I think the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3421.0,"endTime":3426.61,"body":"hits point of emotional thing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3426.61,"endTime":3429.52,"body":"about this was Episode 37. Is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3426.61,"endTime":3429.52,"body":"there a place for me in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3429.52,"endTime":3431.95,"body":"church? Because that was not a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3429.52,"endTime":3431.95,"body":"question that we had planned on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3431.95,"endTime":3434.44,"body":"talking about, I just had had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3431.95,"endTime":3434.44,"body":"this fairly triggering"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3434.44,"endTime":3437.44,"body":"experience watching a TV show"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3434.44,"endTime":3437.44,"body":"with my friend, Heidi. And then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3437.47,"endTime":3439.66,"body":"I came home, and Charlie and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3437.47,"endTime":3439.66,"body":"were roommates at the time. So I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3439.66,"endTime":3441.79,"body":"was talking to him about it. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3439.66,"endTime":3441.79,"body":"then we talked to our roommate"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3441.79,"endTime":3444.94,"body":"McKay about it. And then like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3441.79,"endTime":3444.94,"body":"the next night, we just recorded"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3444.94,"endTime":3448.54,"body":"the episode. And that was, there"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3444.94,"endTime":3448.54,"body":"were a lot of things that I felt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3448.54,"endTime":3451.45,"body":"like we needed to share. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3448.54,"endTime":3451.45,"body":"after that, it kind of gave me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3451.45,"endTime":3454.45,"body":"like a different view of like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3451.45,"endTime":3454.45,"body":"what I wanted the podcast to be."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3454.84,"endTime":3457.45,"body":"And I don't know if any, if any"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3454.84,"endTime":3457.45,"body":"listeners like knows the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3457.45,"endTime":3459.7,"body":"difference after Episode 37 Is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3457.45,"endTime":3459.7,"body":"there a place for me in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3459.7,"endTime":3464.14,"body":"church or not. But I felt the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3459.7,"endTime":3464.14,"body":"difference. I felt that it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3464.14,"endTime":3468.22,"body":"been important for me to share"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3464.14,"endTime":3468.22,"body":"more of the hard things, and to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3468.22,"endTime":3472.9,"body":"be more vulnerable that way. But"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3468.22,"endTime":3472.9,"body":"but really, I we got more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3472.9,"endTime":3475.57,"body":"responses, like more emails"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3472.9,"endTime":3475.57,"body":"about the episode that episode"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3475.57,"endTime":3478.39,"body":"people saying I feel the same"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3475.57,"endTime":3478.39,"body":"way, I wanted to be a place and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3478.39,"endTime":3481.33,"body":"fighting for that. And so that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3478.39,"endTime":3481.33,"body":"was the message I just felt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3481.33,"endTime":3485.17,"body":"like, like, like we were meant"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3481.33,"endTime":3485.17,"body":"to share. And it was it was it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3485.17,"endTime":3488.38,"body":"was powerful and hard to share"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3485.17,"endTime":3488.38,"body":"something that I felt like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3488.38,"endTime":3489.25,"body":"needed to be said."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3491.7,"endTime":3493.92,"body":"I also felt a change"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3491.7,"endTime":3493.92,"body":"after that episode. And I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3493.95,"endTime":3497.4,"body":"on top of that, one of the most"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3493.95,"endTime":3497.4,"body":"difficult things for me to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3497.4,"endTime":3501.78,"body":"like to start being more candid,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3497.4,"endTime":3501.78,"body":"was that I didn't want to lose"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3501.78,"endTime":3505.29,"body":"people's trust. I feel like I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3501.78,"endTime":3505.29,"body":"walking on a tightrope all the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3505.29,"endTime":3508.71,"body":"time. And I always have to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3505.29,"endTime":3508.71,"body":"like, watching to see how"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3508.71,"endTime":3513.96,"body":"someone's gonna react and, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3508.71,"endTime":3513.96,"body":"really wants to be a safe place"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3513.96,"endTime":3518.19,"body":"for members of the church who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3513.96,"endTime":3518.19,"body":"are terrified of LGBTQIA+ people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3518.34,"endTime":3521.67,"body":"and the gay agenda and those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3518.34,"endTime":3521.67,"body":"issues, I want to be like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3521.67,"endTime":3524.52,"body":"point of entry for them, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3521.67,"endTime":3524.52,"body":"they can feel safe and start"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3524.52,"endTime":3526.74,"body":"getting the information that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3524.52,"endTime":3526.74,"body":"they desperately need. So we can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3526.74,"endTime":3531.24,"body":"start making positive change in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3526.74,"endTime":3531.24,"body":"this sphere. But I've I'm so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3531.24,"endTime":3535.41,"body":"afraid and so conscious that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3531.24,"endTime":3535.41,"body":"like everything I say or do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3535.44,"endTime":3538.62,"body":"could potentially be scrutinized"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3535.44,"endTime":3538.62,"body":"or under a microscope microscope"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3538.62,"endTime":3542.61,"body":"and push them away. And I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3538.62,"endTime":3542.61,"body":"that experience just taught me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3542.61,"endTime":3545.34,"body":"that if I'm following the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3542.61,"endTime":3545.34,"body":"spirit, if I need to talk about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3545.34,"endTime":3548.64,"body":"something or say something, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3545.34,"endTime":3548.64,"body":"I just need to do it and trust"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3548.64,"endTime":3552.54,"body":"God, like it's not my job. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3548.64,"endTime":3552.54,"body":"like, obviously, I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3552.54,"endTime":3556.71,"body":"conscious of how I'm talking and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3552.54,"endTime":3556.71,"body":"presenting, but it's not my job"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3558.0,"endTime":3561.21,"body":"to fully like make someone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3558.0,"endTime":3561.21,"body":"comfortable all the time, if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3561.21,"endTime":3566.04,"body":"that means not talking about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3561.21,"endTime":3566.04,"body":"real things. And that episode"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3566.04,"endTime":3568.92,"body":"kind of like led me into feeling"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3566.04,"endTime":3568.92,"body":"more comfortable talking about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3568.92,"endTime":3571.29,"body":"dating, which is something that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3568.92,"endTime":3571.29,"body":"I was terrified to do because I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3571.29,"endTime":3574.8,"body":"had to book a Desert Book and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3571.29,"endTime":3574.8,"body":"just felt crushed by like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3574.8,"endTime":3577.71,"body":"pressures and I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3574.8,"endTime":3577.71,"body":"yeah...."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3577.77,"endTime":3580.38,"body":"yeah, Charlie and I we knew"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3577.77,"endTime":3580.38,"body":"we had to do a dating episode"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3580.38,"endTime":3582.45,"body":"for a while and Charlie just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3580.38,"endTime":3582.45,"body":"wasn't ready. And so I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3582.51,"endTime":3584.52,"body":"waiting for Charlie to be ready."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3582.51,"endTime":3584.52,"body":"And finally one day you were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3584.52,"endTime":3585.99,"body":"like, I'm ready to the episode."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3586.26,"endTime":3588.66,"body":"Yeah. And it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3586.26,"endTime":3588.66,"body":"because I was just like, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3588.66,"endTime":3592.95,"body":"know what, like, that's it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3588.66,"endTime":3592.95,"body":"Like, I learned so much about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3592.95,"endTime":3597.06,"body":"myself and so much about God by"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3592.95,"endTime":3597.06,"body":"dating and I want to share, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3597.06,"endTime":3599.7,"body":"best practices that I learned"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3597.06,"endTime":3599.7,"body":"the hard way after getting"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3599.7,"endTime":3605.61,"body":"burned. And hurt. And just in in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3599.7,"endTime":3605.61,"body":"situations that I didn't, that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3605.61,"endTime":3607.8,"body":"no one else needs to be in now"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3605.61,"endTime":3607.8,"body":"because like I've learned"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3607.8,"endTime":3610.95,"body":"things, I want to share that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3607.8,"endTime":3610.95,"body":"And in case anybody else is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3610.95,"endTime":3614.52,"body":"looking for that in their lives"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3610.95,"endTime":3614.52,"body":"or feels like that's a path that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3614.52,"endTime":3617.85,"body":"they should be going down. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3614.52,"endTime":3617.85,"body":"just think, in a lot of ways"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3617.85,"endTime":3621.75,"body":"that is there a place for me in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3617.85,"endTime":3621.75,"body":"the church episode inspired me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3621.75,"endTime":3624.12,"body":"to be more authentic about my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3621.75,"endTime":3624.12,"body":"experience and talk about more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3624.12,"endTime":3627.84,"body":"real issues that, like, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3624.12,"endTime":3627.84,"body":"know, like the do's, like, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3627.84,"endTime":3630.66,"body":"things that everyone wants to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3627.84,"endTime":3630.66,"body":"know. But also like the things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3630.66,"endTime":3634.92,"body":"that are scary to talk about,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3630.66,"endTime":3634.92,"body":"because that's what a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3634.92,"endTime":3637.14,"body":"people need. So what I wish I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3634.92,"endTime":3637.14,"body":"would have had."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3638.17,"endTime":3640.36,"body":"Just a couple more episodes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3638.17,"endTime":3640.36,"body":"that I really love. And I thank"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3640.36,"endTime":3642.94,"body":"you for sharing that, Charlie,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3640.36,"endTime":3642.94,"body":"with the episode with Sarah,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3642.94,"endTime":3644.86,"body":"should I go on a mission, Sara"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3642.94,"endTime":3644.86,"body":"kind of ended up interviewing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3644.86,"endTime":3647.95,"body":"us, which was fun. But then this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3644.86,"endTime":3647.95,"body":"happens in a number of podcasts"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3647.98,"endTime":3650.26,"body":"really close to finishing and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3647.98,"endTime":3650.26,"body":"Charlie like it's not done yet."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3650.26,"endTime":3653.2,"body":"Like we're missing something."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3650.26,"endTime":3653.2,"body":"And at the end of the episode,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3653.2,"endTime":3655.42,"body":"Charlie shared a story that he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3653.2,"endTime":3655.42,"body":"hadn't planned on sharing that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3655.42,"endTime":3658.54,"body":"was just really beautiful, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3655.42,"endTime":3658.54,"body":"really lovely about God's love"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3658.54,"endTime":3661.96,"body":"and God's care for him. And it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3658.54,"endTime":3661.96,"body":"was just so cool to see like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3661.96,"endTime":3663.88,"body":"we're talking about going on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3661.96,"endTime":3663.88,"body":"missions. And then this episode"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3663.88,"endTime":3667.69,"body":"ended up being like, this is how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3663.88,"endTime":3667.69,"body":"God is watching out for me, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3667.72,"endTime":3671.74,"body":"he is in this detail of my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3667.72,"endTime":3671.74,"body":"experience. And I've seen that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3671.74,"endTime":3673.63,"body":"happen multiple times where"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3671.74,"endTime":3673.63,"body":"we're planning talking about one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3673.63,"endTime":3675.97,"body":"thing, and then something else"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3673.63,"endTime":3675.97,"body":"will happen. One of our episodes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3675.97,"endTime":3679.06,"body":"in season two, ended up kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3675.97,"endTime":3679.06,"body":"kind of being that way, where we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3679.06,"endTime":3680.83,"body":"ended up talking about how are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3679.06,"endTime":3680.83,"body":"we going to cheer for people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3680.83,"endTime":3683.02,"body":"around us? Like, how are we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3680.83,"endTime":3683.02,"body":"going to, like celebrate who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3683.02,"endTime":3685.96,"body":"they are, when that wasn't the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3683.02,"endTime":3685.96,"body":"question at all. And so it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3685.96,"endTime":3689.35,"body":"really fun to see those episodes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3685.96,"endTime":3689.35,"body":"where that happens. Two episodes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3689.35,"endTime":3691.78,"body":"I really loved because they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3689.35,"endTime":3691.78,"body":"weren't conversations, I had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3691.78,"endTime":3695.53,"body":"heard a lot where the episode"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3691.78,"endTime":3695.53,"body":"with Richard Bushman, who was a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3695.86,"endTime":3698.89,"body":"is a church patriarch, because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3695.86,"endTime":3698.89,"body":"I'd never heard a conversation"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3698.89,"endTime":3700.72,"body":"about a patriot talking about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3698.89,"endTime":3700.72,"body":"with like to get a patriarchal"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3700.72,"endTime":3702.37,"body":"blessings. That wasn't me. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3700.72,"endTime":3702.37,"body":"thought that was really neat."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3702.64,"endTime":3705.94,"body":"And also our episode on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3702.64,"endTime":3705.94,"body":"asexuality with Tearza. Because"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3705.94,"endTime":3709.21,"body":"that's just what I was. I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3705.94,"endTime":3709.21,"body":"learned so much as we were doing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3709.21,"endTime":3712.24,"body":"that episode. And it was just so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3709.21,"endTime":3712.24,"body":"fun to like, know that other"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3712.24,"endTime":3715.54,"body":"people are going to be learning"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3712.24,"endTime":3715.54,"body":"as well. So those are some fun"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3715.54,"endTime":3716.23,"body":"episodes as well."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3716.95,"endTime":3721.03,"body":"Thank you. So just as"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3716.95,"endTime":3721.03,"body":"we're wrapping up. I know, guys,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3721.06,"endTime":3723.79,"body":"but we're gonna have some time"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3721.06,"endTime":3723.79,"body":"to talk to Ben and Charlie"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3723.79,"endTime":3726.97,"body":"individually. And I hope you"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3723.79,"endTime":3726.97,"body":"guys talk to each other, too."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3728.14,"endTime":3731.56,"body":"But we're coming up on season"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3728.14,"endTime":3731.56,"body":"two, I you know, you've recorded"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3731.56,"endTime":3735.76,"body":"some episodes, what are some of"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3731.56,"endTime":3735.76,"body":"the hopes and aspirations that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3735.76,"endTime":3739.72,"body":"you have for season two and its"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3735.76,"endTime":3739.72,"body":"impact."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3742.84,"endTime":3746.17,"body":"I hope that season two"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3742.84,"endTime":3746.17,"body":"can continue to grow. And that,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3746.44,"endTime":3748.84,"body":"like we've been doing this long"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3746.44,"endTime":3748.84,"body":"enough that people kind of trust"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3748.84,"endTime":3751.57,"body":"it more and are willing to share"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3748.84,"endTime":3751.57,"body":"and kind of step out of any"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3751.57,"endTime":3753.7,"body":"comfort zone that might be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3751.57,"endTime":3753.7,"body":"inhibiting them from like really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3753.7,"endTime":3758.83,"body":"digging in. And also, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3753.7,"endTime":3758.83,"body":"really hope that season two"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3758.83,"endTime":3761.23,"body":"inspires people to go back and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3758.83,"endTime":3761.23,"body":"listen to some of the other"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3761.23,"endTime":3766.06,"body":"stuff we've done, because we've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3761.23,"endTime":3766.06,"body":"had, like, really spiritual,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3766.09,"endTime":3770.68,"body":"incredible eye opening moments"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3766.09,"endTime":3770.68,"body":"that are captured and I just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3770.71,"endTime":3774.01,"body":"like to think of it that, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3770.71,"endTime":3774.01,"body":"if you've ever had a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3774.01,"endTime":3776.89,"body":"conversation that's been so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3774.01,"endTime":3776.89,"body":"like, riveting and inspiring,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3776.89,"endTime":3779.95,"body":"and just and you wish you could"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3776.89,"endTime":3779.95,"body":"like go back and rewind and, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3779.95,"endTime":3783.04,"body":"look at some of the things like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3779.95,"endTime":3783.04,"body":"that's what we've captured. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3783.34,"endTime":3787.15,"body":"I feel humbled like so humbled"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3783.34,"endTime":3787.15,"body":"that somehow I've been the one"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3787.15,"endTime":3792.22,"body":"that was able to help capture"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3787.15,"endTime":3792.22,"body":"the essence of what it's like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3792.52,"endTime":3797.83,"body":"and the power of God's love, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3792.52,"endTime":3797.83,"body":"the hurt and just all of these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3798.04,"endTime":3802.57,"body":"convoluted complex things that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3798.04,"endTime":3802.57,"body":"we're we're finding as we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3802.57,"endTime":3806.38,"body":"communicate with each other. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3802.57,"endTime":3806.38,"body":"I hope that season two can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3806.38,"endTime":3809.29,"body":"continue to push the project"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3806.38,"endTime":3809.29,"body":"forward, but also inspire people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3809.29,"endTime":3815.68,"body":"to go back and, and really like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3809.29,"endTime":3815.68,"body":"solidify their like allyship and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3815.68,"endTime":3816.88,"body":"their self worth."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3818.35,"endTime":3821.14,"body":"I'm excited to see how the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3818.35,"endTime":3821.14,"body":"Holy Ghost inspires listeners to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3821.14,"endTime":3823.27,"body":"do more things. That's what I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3821.14,"endTime":3823.27,"body":"most excited about."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3824.5,"endTime":3825.22,"body":"Ben's is better."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3824.544,"endTime":3826.494,"body":"There's this really cool"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3824.544,"endTime":3826.494,"body":"project going on right now that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3826.494,"endTime":3831.444,"body":"happened because of Episode 37."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3826.494,"endTime":3831.444,"body":"I probably shouldn't share some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3831.444,"endTime":3836.724,"body":"details about it. I don't know."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3831.444,"endTime":3836.724,"body":"aybe. Probably. But one of my f"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3836.724,"endTime":3839.124,"body":"iends was listening to the ep"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3836.724,"endTime":3839.124,"body":"sode. And she was listening to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3839.124,"endTime":3842.484,"body":"t on her way to work. And then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3839.124,"endTime":3842.484,"body":"she had thi idea. And then she"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3842.484,"endTime":3844.764,"body":"inished the episode on the way"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3842.484,"endTime":3844.764,"body":"ome and all day. She's like, w"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3844.764,"endTime":3846.864,"body":"ll, I can't do that. That's, t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3844.764,"endTime":3846.864,"body":"at's out of my sphere. Like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3846.864,"endTime":3848.994,"body":"I can't do this. And then o"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3846.864,"endTime":3848.994,"body":"the on the drive home, she"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3848.994,"endTime":3850.854,"body":"istened to the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3848.994,"endTime":3850.854,"body":"pisode I said, whatever if you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3850.854,"endTime":3853.914,"body":"re prompted to do do that thin"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3850.854,"endTime":3853.914,"body":". And so she's like, I guess"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3853.914,"endTime":3855.924,"body":"got to do the thing. And now"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3853.914,"endTime":3855.924,"body":"he's doing the thing. That's suc"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3857.634,"endTime":3860.994,"body":"a cool thing. And, and so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3857.634,"endTime":3860.994,"body":"on't know what things you gu"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3860.994,"endTime":3866.004,"body":"s are gonna be inspired to do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3860.994,"endTime":3866.004,"body":"I don't know. And I'm excited"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3866.004,"endTime":3868.044,"body":"to see how God surprised all"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3866.004,"endTime":3868.044,"body":"of us with the cool things th"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3868.734,"endTime":3871.734,"body":"t you guys do. Multiple people h"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3868.734,"endTime":3871.734,"body":"ve reached out since try both sp"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3871.734,"endTime":3874.524,"body":"ak Spanish and have asked us to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3871.734,"endTime":3874.524,"body":"do episodes in Spanish. And I do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3874.524,"endTime":3878.124,"body":"'t think we're gonna do that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3874.524,"endTime":3878.124,"body":"I don't think that's our job"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3878.124,"endTime":3880.494,"body":"But someone's gonna listen, an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3878.124,"endTime":3880.494,"body":"it's gonna be their stewards"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3881.064,"endTime":3883.674,"body":"ip to do that. And I'm excite"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3881.064,"endTime":3883.674,"body":"to hear those episodes in S"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3883.674,"endTime":3886.494,"body":"anish and just subscribe"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3883.674,"endTime":3886.494,"body":"o that podcast whenever it hap"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3886.494,"endTime":3889.434,"body":"ens. You know, I'm excited t"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3886.494,"endTime":3889.434,"body":"see the ideas that you guys h"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3889.434,"endTime":3892.014,"body":"ve and the way that you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3889.434,"endTime":3892.014,"body":"inister to one another. I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3892.014,"endTime":3896.274,"body":"xcited to read your emails. S"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3892.014,"endTime":3896.274,"body":"me of them are very long but I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3896.274,"endTime":3898.794,"body":"o read them all. And so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3896.274,"endTime":3898.794,"body":"etimes people write me like se"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3898.824,"endTime":3901.494,"body":"iously, like 10 page emails, an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3898.824,"endTime":3901.494,"body":"I just finished reading, li"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3901.494,"endTime":3904.344,"body":"e, Oh my gosh, that was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3901.494,"endTime":3904.344,"body":"someone's story. And I think I'"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3904.374,"endTime":3906.624,"body":"so glad that they trusted me en"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3904.374,"endTime":3906.624,"body":"ugh to share that much of th"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3906.624,"endTime":3910.404,"body":"mselves with me. And so my ho"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3906.624,"endTime":3910.404,"body":"e for season two was that pe"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3910.404,"endTime":3913.464,"body":"ple will keep feeling in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3910.404,"endTime":3913.464,"body":"pired to share them their st"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3913.464,"endTime":3917.694,"body":"ries, and to build Zion that wa"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3913.464,"endTime":3917.694,"body":". And, you know, I hope that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3917.694,"endTime":3919.974,"body":"on't have to be the re"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3917.694,"endTime":3919.974,"body":"eptacle for your story in the fu"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3919.974,"endTime":3922.374,"body":"ure, that the people that you ac"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3919.974,"endTime":3922.374,"body":"ually know can be the re"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3922.374,"endTime":3925.434,"body":"eptacle for that. And I don't kn"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3922.374,"endTime":3925.434,"body":"w how God's gonna speak to yo"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3925.434,"endTime":3929.304,"body":". But it might not be through ou"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3925.434,"endTime":3929.304,"body":"podcast, you might find it bo"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3929.304,"endTime":3932.244,"body":"ing, I don't know. But I'm ju"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3929.304,"endTime":3932.244,"body":"t excited to see how God works"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3932.244,"endTime":3936.474,"body":"hrough all of us to move the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3932.244,"endTime":3936.474,"body":"ork of the kingdom forward."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3941.19,"endTime":3944.46,"body":"Thank you, Ben. Thank"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3941.19,"endTime":3944.46,"body":"you, Charlie. We're wrapping up."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3944.7,"endTime":3946.95,"body":"And sometimes I know you sit"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3944.7,"endTime":3946.95,"body":"there, you're just like, I wish"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3946.95,"endTime":3950.37,"body":"I had an opportunity to say that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3946.95,"endTime":3950.37,"body":"thing about that other thing? Is"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3950.37,"endTime":3953.43,"body":"there anything that either one"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3950.37,"endTime":3953.43,"body":"of us with either one of you"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3954.09,"endTime":3957.15,"body":"would want to say before we wrap"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3954.09,"endTime":3957.15,"body":"up today's panel."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3962.67,"endTime":3963.69,"body":"\u003csilence\u003e I'm shocked."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3968.31,"endTime":3972.87,"body":"One of the most, one of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3968.31,"endTime":3972.87,"body":"the heaviest things for me in my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3972.87,"endTime":3975.42,"body":"life has been trying to figure"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3972.87,"endTime":3975.42,"body":"out if there's a place for me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3975.81,"endTime":3979.71,"body":"in heaven, in God's kingdom and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3975.81,"endTime":3979.71,"body":"in the church where I am right"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3979.71,"endTime":3984.9,"body":"now. And I moved to New York"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3979.71,"endTime":3984.9,"body":"City after I finished my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3984.9,"endTime":3989.25,"body":"undergrad at BYU. And I was in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3984.9,"endTime":3989.25,"body":"this Ward that was just like, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3989.25,"endTime":3991.35,"body":"was in on the east side of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3989.25,"endTime":3991.35,"body":"Manhattan. And it was the most"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3991.35,"endTime":3996.42,"body":"like haphazard collection of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3991.35,"endTime":3996.42,"body":"individuals from all different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3996.42,"endTime":4001.34,"body":"places, all different socio"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3996.42,"endTime":4001.34,"body":"economic backgrounds. And it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4001.34,"endTime":4008.3,"body":"a place where like, God was and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4001.34,"endTime":4008.3,"body":"you came as you were. And one of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4008.3,"endTime":4012.47,"body":"my really good friends there was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4008.3,"endTime":4012.47,"body":"dating this guy, and they were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4012.47,"endTime":4016.85,"body":"like, the cutest couple. They"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4012.47,"endTime":4016.85,"body":"were awesome. And he wanted to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4016.85,"endTime":4022.07,"body":"bring his boyfriend to church."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4016.85,"endTime":4022.07,"body":"And we were talking about it in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4022.1,"endTime":4024.68,"body":"in Central Park. And I was just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4022.1,"endTime":4024.68,"body":"like, this is never gonna work,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4024.68,"endTime":4028.88,"body":"dude, like, like, what is what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4024.68,"endTime":4028.88,"body":"is your goal here? Like, there's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4028.88,"endTime":4031.55,"body":"a real, like, we're not even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4028.88,"endTime":4031.55,"body":"sure if we can do this. Why are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4031.55,"endTime":4035.18,"body":"you going to pull this stranger"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4031.55,"endTime":4035.18,"body":"into this? And he's like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4035.18,"endTime":4037.61,"body":"don't know. But I feel like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4035.18,"endTime":4037.61,"body":"should. So we have this whole"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4037.61,"endTime":4040.13,"body":"conversation. And he started"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4037.61,"endTime":4040.13,"body":"bringing his boyfriend to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4040.13,"endTime":4045.08,"body":"church. And there was a place"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4040.13,"endTime":4045.08,"body":"for that same sex couple in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4045.08,"endTime":4047.96,"body":"church in that congregation."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4045.08,"endTime":4047.96,"body":"Like, there were no questions"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4047.96,"endTime":4050.84,"body":"asked, like, people scooted"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4047.96,"endTime":4050.84,"body":"down. And it was like, hey,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4050.84,"endTime":4052.61,"body":"you've never been here before."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4050.84,"endTime":4052.61,"body":"Let me show you how the hymn"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4052.61,"endTime":4056.45,"body":"book works. And this is what to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4052.61,"endTime":4056.45,"body":"expect and, and having them in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4056.45,"endTime":4061.13,"body":"our congregation made. Everyone"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4056.45,"endTime":4061.13,"body":"there better. It fixed a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4061.13,"endTime":4064.37,"body":"like, the hurtful things that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4061.13,"endTime":4064.37,"body":"are said. And it just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4064.37,"endTime":4067.37,"body":"everyone was on their spiritual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4064.37,"endTime":4067.37,"body":"'A\" game and was so accepting."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4067.88,"endTime":4073.43,"body":"And I watched that, and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4067.88,"endTime":4073.43,"body":"like, You know what, if, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4073.43,"endTime":4076.34,"body":"we are The Church of Jesus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4073.43,"endTime":4076.34,"body":"Christ of Latter-day Saints,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4076.37,"endTime":4080.18,"body":"like we are the saints that make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4076.37,"endTime":4080.18,"body":"up the church. And there are so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4080.18,"endTime":4084.56,"body":"many ways that people don't know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4080.18,"endTime":4084.56,"body":"if they have a place, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4084.56,"endTime":4089.09,"body":"communities and congregations"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4084.56,"endTime":4089.09,"body":"and families. And we can be the,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4089.51,"endTime":4093.71,"body":"the agents for change that scoot"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4089.51,"endTime":4093.71,"body":"down on the pew and send a text"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4093.71,"endTime":4097.22,"body":"and support and cheer for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4093.71,"endTime":4097.22,"body":"people. And, and just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4097.22,"endTime":4100.04,"body":"watching my friend and his"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4097.22,"endTime":4100.04,"body":"boyfriend have a place in the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4100.04,"endTime":4105.05,"body":"church blew my mind. And it like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4100.04,"endTime":4105.05,"body":"gave me so much hope that like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4105.05,"endTime":4108.56,"body":"whatever my life looks like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4105.05,"endTime":4108.56,"body":"can honor who I am and what I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4108.56,"endTime":4114.26,"body":"believe. And like, even if I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4108.56,"endTime":4114.26,"body":"going against, like social norms"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4114.26,"endTime":4119.33,"body":"or anything like I can create"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4114.26,"endTime":4119.33,"body":"the life I want to live. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4119.33,"endTime":4123.35,"body":"saw that because other people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4119.33,"endTime":4123.35,"body":"allowed it to happen. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4123.35,"endTime":4126.47,"body":"just so inspired that there's a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4123.35,"endTime":4126.47,"body":"roomful of people who want to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4126.47,"endTime":4132.38,"body":"like that. And the people who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4126.47,"endTime":4132.38,"body":"never felt like, comfortable,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4132.77,"endTime":4136.28,"body":"or, or question whether they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4132.77,"endTime":4136.28,"body":"worth it or whether they fit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4136.28,"endTime":4139.58,"body":"like we can show them they"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4136.28,"endTime":4139.58,"body":"belong. And I'm just overwhelmed"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4139.58,"endTime":4141.86,"body":"with gratitude for that. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4139.58,"endTime":4141.86,"body":"thank you all for coming."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4143.25,"endTime":4147.09,"body":"I just had two thoughts to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4143.25,"endTime":4147.09,"body":"share. When I was 23 in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4147.09,"endTime":4150.03,"body":"closet and just trying to figure"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4147.09,"endTime":4150.03,"body":"out what to do. I read all these"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4150.03,"endTime":4154.65,"body":"anonymous blogs by other gay"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4150.03,"endTime":4154.65,"body":"members of the church. And one"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4154.65,"endTime":4157.95,"body":"of them was by this guy, Mark."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4154.65,"endTime":4157.95,"body":"He later came out on his blog,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4157.95,"endTime":4159.96,"body":"like, like shared his name, his"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4157.95,"endTime":4159.96,"body":"picture. It wasn't an anonymous"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4159.96,"endTime":4162.24,"body":"blog, but his blog was one of my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4159.96,"endTime":4162.24,"body":"favorites and just helped me a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4162.24,"endTime":4168.6,"body":"ton. That's when I was 23. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4162.24,"endTime":4168.6,"body":"then seven years later, Jordan"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4168.6,"endTime":4171.51,"body":"Nye that guy that I dated that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4168.6,"endTime":4171.51,"body":"had just ended, I went back to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4171.51,"endTime":4173.73,"body":"Arizona wondering how he's going"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4171.51,"endTime":4173.73,"body":"to put the pieces of my life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4173.73,"endTime":4177.63,"body":"back together. And I was just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4173.73,"endTime":4177.63,"body":"not in a good place. And I got"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4177.63,"endTime":4180.45,"body":"back to Arizona, and I decided"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4177.63,"endTime":4180.45,"body":"that I wasn't going to hide"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4180.45,"endTime":4183.72,"body":"anymore. Like I was going to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4180.45,"endTime":4183.72,"body":"honest about my orientation. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4183.72,"endTime":4186.78,"body":"so I met this guy playing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4183.72,"endTime":4186.78,"body":"volleyball at the Institute, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4186.78,"endTime":4188.55,"body":"we were standing in the parking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4186.78,"endTime":4188.55,"body":"lot just talking. He's telling"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4188.55,"endTime":4192.27,"body":"me all of his girl woes. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4188.55,"endTime":4192.27,"body":"afterwards, he said, So how's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4192.27,"endTime":4196.02,"body":"your dating life? And I said,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4192.27,"endTime":4196.02,"body":"Well, not good because I'm gay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4196.38,"endTime":4200.01,"body":"And he responded really well."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4196.38,"endTime":4200.01,"body":"And he said, Actually, I've got"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4200.01,"endTime":4202.92,"body":"Friend back in Florida where I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4200.01,"endTime":4202.92,"body":"was living, and I would love to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4202.92,"endTime":4207.39,"body":"set you guys up. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4202.92,"endTime":4207.39,"body":"No, thank you. And then he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4207.39,"endTime":4209.91,"body":"showed me his picture. And it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4207.39,"endTime":4209.91,"body":"was Mark, like, it was a guy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4209.91,"endTime":4211.62,"body":"whose blog I'd read. I was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4209.91,"endTime":4211.62,"body":"Well, I don't want to date him,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4211.62,"endTime":4212.58,"body":"but I do want to meet him."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4213.14,"endTime":4221.21,"body":"And so and so and so we started"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4213.14,"endTime":4221.21,"body":"texting, and he ended up being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4221.21,"endTime":4225.95,"body":"in in, in in Arizona for work."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4221.21,"endTime":4225.95,"body":"And he ended up spending a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4225.95,"endTime":4229.16,"body":"weekend with me in Tucson. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4225.95,"endTime":4229.16,"body":"he was like, what I'm gonna like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4229.16,"endTime":4231.68,"body":"the second or third person I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4229.16,"endTime":4231.68,"body":"didn't like gay person I never"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4231.68,"endTime":4234.41,"body":"talked to about being gay, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4231.68,"endTime":4234.41,"body":"I talked to straight people, but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4234.44,"endTime":4236.54,"body":"I just like, got to talk to him"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4234.44,"endTime":4236.54,"body":"about my life. And it was just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4236.54,"endTime":4240.65,"body":"so good and healing for me. This"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4236.54,"endTime":4240.65,"body":"is back when I was 30. Mark, now"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4240.65,"endTime":4243.56,"body":"listen to the podcast. And he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4240.65,"endTime":4243.56,"body":"texted me how much he loves it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4243.56,"endTime":4247.07,"body":"and says how great it is. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4243.56,"endTime":4247.07,"body":"when the season ended, he was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4247.07,"endTime":4249.62,"body":"super bummed. He's like, I need"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4247.07,"endTime":4249.62,"body":"more episodes, please start"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4249.62,"endTime":4251.87,"body":"making them soon. And it was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4249.62,"endTime":4251.87,"body":"really cool that like this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4251.87,"endTime":4255.59,"body":"person that helped me so much,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4251.87,"endTime":4255.59,"body":"now was being helped by what I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4255.59,"endTime":4259.37,"body":"was saying. Just seeing that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4255.59,"endTime":4259.37,"body":"full circle. And then in one of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4259.37,"endTime":4261.89,"body":"the episodes we mentioned, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4259.37,"endTime":4261.89,"body":"mentioned that I pay for all of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4261.89,"endTime":4264.83,"body":"this. And he said, Well, if you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4261.89,"endTime":4264.83,"body":"ever need any money, let me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4264.83,"endTime":4267.11,"body":"know, I'll pitch in some money."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4264.83,"endTime":4267.11,"body":"And so I was like, oh, we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4267.11,"endTime":4271.34,"body":"gonna do this live event. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4267.11,"endTime":4271.34,"body":"told him, I asked him if he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4271.34,"endTime":4273.92,"body":"would pitch it like 20 or 50"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4271.34,"endTime":4273.92,"body":"bucks. And he asked me how much"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4273.92,"endTime":4279.83,"body":"was going to be and I told him"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4273.92,"endTime":4279.83,"body":"and then he Venmo'd me $1 and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4279.83,"endTime":4282.32,"body":"then he Venmo'd me the rest of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4279.83,"endTime":4282.32,"body":"the money like he like this is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4282.32,"endTime":4294.41,"body":"sponsored by Mark. And, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4282.32,"endTime":4294.41,"body":"know, Mark will love those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4294.41,"endTime":4296.45,"body":"applause when he watches this."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4294.41,"endTime":4296.45,"body":"He's doing the Camino de"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4296.45,"endTime":4302.51,"body":"Santiago in Spain right now."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4296.45,"endTime":4302.51,"body":"But, uh, you know, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4302.51,"endTime":4305.15,"body":"how our lives are gonna"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4302.51,"endTime":4305.15,"body":"intertwine. Like, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4305.81,"endTime":4308.15,"body":"you know, I don't know if 15"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4305.81,"endTime":4308.15,"body":"years from now we're gonna run"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4308.15,"endTime":4310.82,"body":"into each other General"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4308.15,"endTime":4310.82,"body":"Conference, or at the temple, or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4311.0,"endTime":4313.46,"body":"you'll be in my neighborhood. Or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4311.0,"endTime":4313.46,"body":"if I'll be renting a room, my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4313.46,"endTime":4315.71,"body":"house so you end up moving in? I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4313.46,"endTime":4315.71,"body":"don't know. Like, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4315.71,"endTime":4317.27,"body":"how our lives are gonna"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4315.71,"endTime":4317.27,"body":"intertwine. Maybe we'll never"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4317.27,"endTime":4321.23,"body":"meet. I don't know. But I know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4317.27,"endTime":4321.23,"body":"there's something to this, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4321.23,"endTime":4324.83,"body":"there's something to building"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4321.23,"endTime":4324.83,"body":"community. And I'm just so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4324.83,"endTime":4326.66,"body":"grateful that you guys are part"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4324.83,"endTime":4326.66,"body":"of the questions from the closet"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4326.66,"endTime":4329.57,"body":"community. And this isn't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4326.66,"endTime":4329.57,"body":"something that even a year and a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4329.57,"endTime":4331.61,"body":"half ago I would have ever"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4329.57,"endTime":4331.61,"body":"envisioned. And it's just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4331.61,"endTime":4333.95,"body":"really, really beautiful. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4331.61,"endTime":4333.95,"body":"know I said this before, but I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4333.95,"endTime":4336.14,"body":"want to say this again, as my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4333.95,"endTime":4336.14,"body":"takeaway. Like I'm really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4336.14,"endTime":4338.72,"body":"excited to see how God's gonna"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4336.14,"endTime":4338.72,"body":"surprise us, and for the good"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4338.72,"endTime":4341.27,"body":"things are gonna happen, and the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4338.72,"endTime":4341.27,"body":"way that our lives intertwine"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4341.27,"endTime":4345.26,"body":"and the way that you all do so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4341.27,"endTime":4345.26,"body":"much good in the world. Thank"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4345.26,"endTime":4348.08,"body":"you for joining us today. If"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4345.26,"endTime":4348.08,"body":"you've enjoyed this, sorry, if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4348.08,"endTime":4350.36,"body":"you've been if you've enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4348.08,"endTime":4350.36,"body":"our conversation, please"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4350.36,"endTime":4352.7,"body":"consider listening to our weekly"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4350.36,"endTime":4352.7,"body":"podcast and find us on Instagram"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4352.88,"endTime":4355.67,"body":"or Facebook at Questions from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4352.88,"endTime":4355.67,"body":"the Closet. Please remember that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4355.67,"endTime":4357.56,"body":"we do not represent the Church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4355.67,"endTime":4357.56,"body":"of Jesus Christ of Latter-day"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4357.56,"endTime":4359.69,"body":"Saints or Brigham Young"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4357.56,"endTime":4359.69,"body":"University. We're not trying to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4359.69,"endTime":4361.97,"body":"be prescriptive or tell anyone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":4359.69,"endTime":4361.97,"body":"what to think or what to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4363.17,"endTime":4365.27,"body":"As always, we encourage"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4363.17,"endTime":4365.27,"body":"you to listen to other voices"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4365.27,"endTime":4367.67,"body":"and hear a wide variety of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4365.27,"endTime":4367.67,"body":"experiences. If you would like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4367.67,"endTime":4370.1,"body":"to submit a question or share a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4367.67,"endTime":4370.1,"body":"comment about our podcast, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4370.1,"endTime":4374.42,"body":"can email Ben at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4370.1,"endTime":4374.42,"body":"questionsfromthecloset@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4374.42,"endTime":4374.9,"body":"Thank you"}]}