{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2.73,"endTime":4.92,"body":"Welcome to Questions"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2.73,"endTime":4.92,"body":"from the Closet. I'm Charlie"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":4.92,"endTime":5.28,"body":"Bird."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.37,"endTime":8.31,"body":"And I am Ben Schilaty. Each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.37,"endTime":8.31,"body":"episode we discuss a question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.31,"endTime":11.07,"body":"that we commonly get asked as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.31,"endTime":11.07,"body":"LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.369,"endTime":13.229,"body":"We're not trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.369,"endTime":13.229,"body":"answer these questions or come"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.229,"endTime":15.569,"body":"to a consensus but simply"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.229,"endTime":15.569,"body":"sharing our perspectives."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":15.929,"endTime":18.239,"body":"Today's question is, am I being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":15.929,"endTime":18.239,"body":"deceived?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":18.66,"endTime":20.7,"body":"So Charlie and I are not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":18.66,"endTime":20.7,"body":"totally diverse and we share"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":20.7,"endTime":23.16,"body":"many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":20.7,"endTime":23.16,"body":"experiences. For example, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":23.16,"endTime":24.45,"body":"both have beautiful eyes."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":24.48,"endTime":26.64,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":24.48,"endTime":26.64,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":26.64,"endTime":31.26,"body":"example, Ben has a lot longer"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":26.64,"endTime":31.26,"body":"lashes than I do. And he also"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":31.26,"endTime":32.04,"body":"wears glasses."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":32.99,"endTime":34.25,"body":"Sure, my lashes are very"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":32.99,"endTime":34.25,"body":"long."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":34.28,"endTime":36.05,"body":"What is your vision"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":34.28,"endTime":36.05,"body":"thing?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":36.23,"endTime":38.6,"body":"I'm not sure you'd like the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":36.23,"endTime":38.6,"body":"20/whatever thing."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":38.63,"endTime":40.19,"body":"I'm like 20/25."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":40.7,"endTime":44.24,"body":"That's really good. So my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":40.7,"endTime":44.24,"body":"contacts prescription is minus"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":44.39,"endTime":46.88,"body":"four, minus four, minus four."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":47.12,"endTime":48.98,"body":"What's the biggest"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":47.12,"endTime":48.98,"body":"minus?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.07,"endTime":51.44,"body":"I don't know what my dad's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.07,"endTime":51.44,"body":"like a minus 12. And he's like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":51.44,"endTime":52.46,"body":"legally blind. What?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":52.49,"endTime":54.23,"body":"What's the difference"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":52.49,"endTime":54.23,"body":"between a plus and a minus?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":54.26,"endTime":55.94,"body":"I don't. nearsighted,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":54.26,"endTime":55.94,"body":"farsighted."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":56.78,"endTime":58.43,"body":"I don't know. I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":56.78,"endTime":58.43,"body":"it means."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":58.49,"endTime":62.03,"body":"Well, the thing is your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":58.49,"endTime":62.03,"body":"lashes. Ben has lashes like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":62.03,"endTime":65.03,"body":"camel. Like I went to Egypt once"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":62.03,"endTime":65.03,"body":"and I was riding a camel. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.03,"endTime":69.74,"body":"was like, Oh my gosh, this camel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":65.03,"endTime":69.74,"body":"looks like Ben because it's like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":69.74,"endTime":70.73,"body":"the eyelashes are so ..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":70.76,"endTime":72.68,"body":"You did not think of me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":70.76,"endTime":72.68,"body":"when you saw the camel."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":73.97,"endTime":75.23,"body":"You're Lebanese."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":75.26,"endTime":77.81,"body":"That's true. And my face is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":75.26,"endTime":77.81,"body":"kind of a camel face."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":79.37,"endTime":82.43,"body":"Okay, that's fine. But"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":79.37,"endTime":82.43,"body":"mostly just the lashes are so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":82.43,"endTime":82.76,"body":"long."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":82.79,"endTime":83.75,"body":"That's true. I do have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":82.79,"endTime":83.75,"body":"really long lashes."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":83.75,"endTime":86.96,"body":"I really, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":83.75,"endTime":86.96,"body":"want to put mascara on you to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":86.96,"endTime":88.64,"body":"like volumize and boost those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":86.96,"endTime":88.64,"body":"babies."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":88.64,"endTime":90.17,"body":"You're not the first person"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":88.64,"endTime":90.17,"body":"to say that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":90.2,"endTime":90.62,"body":"Really?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":90.65,"endTime":92.42,"body":"I've had a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":90.65,"endTime":92.42,"body":"offer to like curl eyelashes and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":92.42,"endTime":93.62,"body":"like put mascara on them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":93.68,"endTime":97.01,"body":"Well, we should do it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":93.68,"endTime":97.01,"body":"No. Well, the thing is, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":97.04,"endTime":98.63,"body":"your glasses make them even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":97.04,"endTime":98.63,"body":"longer."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":98.69,"endTime":100.73,"body":"I know. And I used to have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":98.69,"endTime":100.73,"body":"a pair of glasses once actually,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":100.73,"endTime":104.21,"body":"when I like push them back. my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":100.73,"endTime":104.21,"body":"lashes would hit the glass."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":104.27,"endTime":106.52,"body":"Oh my gosh, your eyes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":104.27,"endTime":106.52,"body":"are blue. Right? Yeah, mine are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":106.52,"endTime":106.94,"body":"green."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":107.03,"endTime":107.45,"body":"I know."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":107.48,"endTime":109.58,"body":"Just so everyone knows"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":107.48,"endTime":109.58,"body":"what we're talking about our"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":109.58,"endTime":112.73,"body":"eyes. Whereas now we're just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":109.58,"endTime":112.73,"body":"looking deep into each other's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":113.0,"endTime":115.49,"body":"eyes. Trying to think of more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":113.0,"endTime":115.49,"body":"material."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":115.94,"endTime":118.79,"body":"But anyway, let's talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":115.94,"endTime":118.79,"body":"about the topic today. So we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":118.79,"endTime":120.83,"body":"would like to provide a variety"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":118.79,"endTime":120.83,"body":"of voices and perspectives. So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":120.83,"endTime":122.54,"body":"today we're joined by Dave"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":120.83,"endTime":122.54,"body":"Butler."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":122.03,"endTime":122.54,"body":"Yeehee!"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":124.79,"endTime":127.58,"body":"That's the first time"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":124.79,"endTime":127.58,"body":"someone yelped to introduce"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":127.61,"endTime":130.04,"body":"themselves. We kind of confused"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":127.61,"endTime":130.04,"body":"him on what to do."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":131.45,"endTime":133.82,"body":"Well I just went"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":131.45,"endTime":133.82,"body":"with what my Spirit said,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":134.03,"endTime":135.83,"body":"That was very appropriate."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":135.83,"endTime":137.39,"body":"Well, that's perfect."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":135.83,"endTime":137.39,"body":"Cuz today we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":137.39,"endTime":138.26,"body":"the Spirit. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":138.26,"endTime":139.82,"body":"So tell us a little bit"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":138.26,"endTime":139.82,"body":"about yourself, Dave."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":140.72,"endTime":143.48,"body":"I'm a Texan. I like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":140.72,"endTime":143.48,"body":"barbecue."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":143.81,"endTime":145.01,"body":"What part of Texas are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":143.81,"endTime":145.01,"body":"you from?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":144.594,"endTime":147.234,"body":"Just outside of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":144.594,"endTime":147.234,"body":"Houston? Place called Sugar"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":147.234,"endTime":151.014,"body":"Land. Do you know that band?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":147.46,"endTime":149.47,"body":"Sugar Land? Oh, yeah I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":147.46,"endTime":149.47,"body":"didn't know they were named"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":149.47,"endTime":149.77,"body":"after Texas."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":149.77,"endTime":150.55,"body":"My hometown."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":150.55,"endTime":150.91,"body":"Jennifer Nettles."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":150.91,"endTime":151.3,"body":"Is that the main"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":150.91,"endTime":151.3,"body":"girl?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":151.3,"endTime":151.39,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":151.39,"endTime":152.2,"body":"Oh. I just claim"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":151.39,"endTime":152.2,"body":"that I'm from the town they're"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":152.2,"endTime":165.49,"body":"named after, are they anyways, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":152.2,"endTime":165.49,"body":"was about to bust into one of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":165.49,"endTime":171.43,"body":"their songs. And I am married to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":165.49,"endTime":171.43,"body":"Jenny. We have six kids. We live"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":171.43,"endTime":176.65,"body":"in Lehi. And we are just our"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":171.43,"endTime":176.65,"body":"oldest is 16. Our baby is six."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":176.65,"endTime":180.67,"body":"And so we're just, oh, they"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":176.65,"endTime":180.67,"body":"control my whole life right now."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":180.94,"endTime":181.57,"body":"In a good way."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":181.63,"endTime":182.56,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":182.71,"endTime":183.79,"body":"And what do you do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":182.71,"endTime":183.79,"body":"professionally?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":184.15,"endTime":187.18,"body":"I teach Institute,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":184.15,"endTime":187.18,"body":"right now at UVU at the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":187.18,"endTime":190.45,"body":"institute at UVU. And I've"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":187.18,"endTime":190.45,"body":"taught seminary for lots of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":190.45,"endTime":192.16,"body":"years. And then a couple years"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":190.45,"endTime":192.16,"body":"ago, I started teaching"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":192.16,"endTime":196.03,"body":"Institute at UVU. And so that is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":192.16,"endTime":196.03,"body":"my my main gig."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.0,"endTime":198.43,"body":"And you're like an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":196.0,"endTime":198.43,"body":"expert on the Holy Ghost?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":202.12,"endTime":207.49,"body":"I don't think so."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":202.12,"endTime":207.49,"body":"But if you want me to be today."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":207.64,"endTime":208.51,"body":"That's why you're here."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":208.57,"endTime":211.75,"body":"OK, well shoot. You should have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":208.57,"endTime":211.75,"body":"found somebody else."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":211.96,"endTime":214.63,"body":"So today we're talking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":211.96,"endTime":214.63,"body":"about like, Am I being deceived?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":214.63,"endTime":217.6,"body":"Which is a question I once asked"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":214.63,"endTime":217.6,"body":"Ben, and I'll kind of tell that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":217.6,"endTime":221.74,"body":"story a little bit later. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":217.6,"endTime":221.74,"body":"think at least I've kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":221.74,"endTime":224.86,"body":"struggled in my journey knowing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":221.74,"endTime":224.86,"body":"like what's coming from God and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":224.86,"endTime":227.77,"body":"what's not like, is this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":224.86,"endTime":227.77,"body":"personal revelation? Or is this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":227.77,"endTime":233.59,"body":"just what I want? Is this just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":227.77,"endTime":233.59,"body":"my desire? And the same day my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":233.59,"endTime":236.38,"body":"book came out, you released a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":233.59,"endTime":236.38,"body":"book about the Holy Spirit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":236.38,"endTime":239.14,"body":"called Spirit. And so I just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":236.38,"endTime":239.14,"body":"figured you done a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":239.14,"endTime":242.71,"body":"research. And your book's pretty"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":239.14,"endTime":242.71,"body":"good. So I was like, let's have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":242.71,"endTime":243.07,"body":"Dave on."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":243.9,"endTime":248.37,"body":"Well, thank you."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":243.9,"endTime":248.37,"body":"Yeah. And then it all seriously"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":248.37,"endTime":252.48,"body":"the day I submitted that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":248.37,"endTime":252.48,"body":"manuscript, I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":252.48,"endTime":256.86,"body":"already would add so much to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":252.48,"endTime":256.86,"body":"change it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":256.86,"endTime":259.14,"body":"that's true of everybody, right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":256.86,"endTime":259.14,"body":"who submits one. They're just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":259.14,"endTime":262.41,"body":"like, oh, but legitimately with"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":259.14,"endTime":262.41,"body":"that one. I was like, I think"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":262.41,"endTime":266.64,"body":"I've learned some new things, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":262.41,"endTime":266.64,"body":"think, I think, not majorly"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":266.64,"endTime":269.1,"body":"differently, but like some"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":266.64,"endTime":269.1,"body":"things I might nuance a little"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":269.16,"endTime":273.39,"body":"anyways, but full disclosure, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":269.16,"endTime":273.39,"body":"have written a book on the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":273.39,"endTime":277.02,"body":"Spirit. And I did spend a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":273.39,"endTime":277.02,"body":"time you know, reading,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":277.02,"endTime":280.17,"body":"researching, thinking, obviously"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":277.02,"endTime":280.17,"body":"about it, but I just feel like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":280.17,"endTime":285.36,"body":"that is a there. This podcast"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":280.17,"endTime":285.36,"body":"should be different a year from"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":285.36,"endTime":288.84,"body":"now. I think. I think that's the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":285.36,"endTime":288.84,"body":"essence, right of living a life"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":288.84,"endTime":291.81,"body":"that's spirit-led where you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":288.84,"endTime":291.81,"body":"just like, there's something a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":291.81,"endTime":294.9,"body":"little bit mysterious about it."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":291.81,"endTime":294.9,"body":"There's something that's like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":295.68,"endTime":297.36,"body":"developmental about it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":297.81,"endTime":301.29,"body":"Like there's no growth"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":297.81,"endTime":301.29,"body":"or progress then what's the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":301.29,"endTime":301.56,"body":"point?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":301.59,"endTime":305.73,"body":"Right? Right? So"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":301.59,"endTime":305.73,"body":"like, stagnant is a word I would"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":305.73,"endTime":309.54,"body":"never associate with the Holy"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":305.73,"endTime":309.54,"body":"Spirit. And so I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":309.54,"endTime":312.39,"body":"the difference, the opposite of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":309.54,"endTime":312.39,"body":"that is. Wild?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":312.39,"endTime":312.99,"body":"Flowing."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":313.08,"endTime":313.95,"body":"Flowing. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":313.98,"endTime":315.66,"body":"Growing, thriving."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":315.93,"endTime":317.19,"body":"I thought we were"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":315.93,"endTime":317.19,"body":"gonna start rhyming,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":317.31,"endTime":323.79,"body":"So when you're like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":317.31,"endTime":323.79,"body":"rowing, rowing, paddle down. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":323.79,"endTime":328.68,"body":"Ben, have you ever wondered if,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":323.79,"endTime":328.68,"body":"like, increased acceptance of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":328.68,"endTime":332.55,"body":"your sexual orientation was like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":328.68,"endTime":332.55,"body":"a deception?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":332.75,"endTime":336.65,"body":"Yes, I have. I wouldn't say"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":332.75,"endTime":336.65,"body":"it's a constant thing. But I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":336.65,"endTime":339.59,"body":"mean, I'm 37 and single and not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":336.65,"endTime":339.59,"body":"pursuing a marriage to a woman"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":339.59,"endTime":343.31,"body":"right now or a man. So I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":339.59,"endTime":343.31,"body":"not following church teachings,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":343.31,"endTime":345.29,"body":"if you will, because I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":343.31,"endTime":345.29,"body":"trying to get married, which I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":345.29,"endTime":348.08,"body":"guess I need to do to be exalted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":345.29,"endTime":348.08,"body":"and become like, God, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":348.08,"endTime":351.08,"body":"shouldn't say so flippantly, but"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":348.08,"endTime":351.08,"body":"well. So there have actually"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":351.08,"endTime":353.3,"body":"been a number of times like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":351.08,"endTime":353.3,"body":"since I came out publicly, where"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":353.3,"endTime":356.0,"body":"I just like, really sincerely"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":353.3,"endTime":356.0,"body":"pray and I'm like, Am I supposed"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":356.0,"endTime":358.79,"body":"to marry a woman? Like, am I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":356.0,"endTime":358.79,"body":"doing this wrong? Just like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":358.82,"endTime":361.7,"body":"really sincerely. And then the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":358.82,"endTime":361.7,"body":"most recent time that happened"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":361.7,"endTime":364.01,"body":"was there was a General"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":361.7,"endTime":364.01,"body":"Conference talk not too long"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":364.01,"endTime":366.95,"body":"ago, that was like, really hard"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":364.01,"endTime":366.95,"body":"for me and really triggering,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":367.16,"endTime":369.83,"body":"and I just had like this, and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":367.16,"endTime":369.83,"body":"watched it with a friend of mine"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":369.83,"endTime":374.06,"body":"who's gay. And she just like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":369.83,"endTime":374.06,"body":"sobbed after just like sobbed."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":374.06,"endTime":377.84,"body":"And I was, I was upset. She was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":374.06,"endTime":377.84,"body":"sad. I just like, came down to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":377.84,"endTime":380.45,"body":"my room, and I knelt down, I had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":377.84,"endTime":380.45,"body":"this like, really sincere"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":380.45,"endTime":383.63,"body":"prayers, like, vocally and I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":380.45,"endTime":383.63,"body":"like, What the heck God? Like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":383.69,"endTime":389.21,"body":"am I wrong? Is this General"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":383.69,"endTime":389.21,"body":"Conference speaker wrong? Are is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":389.21,"endTime":392.6,"body":"there? Is he right? Am I right?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":389.21,"endTime":392.6,"body":"Is there a way that we're are we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":392.6,"endTime":395.27,"body":"both wrong? Are we both right"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":392.6,"endTime":395.27,"body":"somehow? Like, should I actually"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":395.27,"endTime":399.68,"body":"be trying to marry a woman like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":395.27,"endTime":399.68,"body":"like he's saying, and, and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":399.68,"endTime":401.66,"body":"just like, as I prayed this,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":399.68,"endTime":401.66,"body":"like really sincerely, and like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":401.69,"endTime":404.78,"body":"honestly, kind of raging? I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":401.69,"endTime":404.78,"body":"like, felt calm, like, no, Ben,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":404.78,"endTime":407.57,"body":"you're on the right path, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":404.78,"endTime":407.57,"body":"you're going the way you're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":407.57,"endTime":408.2,"body":"supposed to go."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":408.69,"endTime":411.93,"body":"Yeah, I think for me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":408.69,"endTime":411.93,"body":"it was confusing, because, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":411.93,"endTime":414.6,"body":"so much of the stuff I learned"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":411.93,"endTime":414.6,"body":"at church and from church"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":414.6,"endTime":419.76,"body":"leaders was true and good and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":414.6,"endTime":419.76,"body":"right. But when it came to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":419.79,"endTime":424.5,"body":"orientation, so much of what I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":419.79,"endTime":424.5,"body":"learned there was damaging, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":424.5,"endTime":429.15,"body":"hurtful. And so, like, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":424.5,"endTime":429.15,"body":"weird for me, for example, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":429.15,"endTime":433.47,"body":"I had church leaders counsel me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":429.15,"endTime":433.47,"body":"to, to not identify as gay and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":433.47,"endTime":436.2,"body":"just say, I was, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":433.47,"endTime":436.2,"body":"experiencing feelings of same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":436.2,"endTime":439.65,"body":"sex attraction. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":436.2,"endTime":439.65,"body":"Okay, I'll do that. And so for a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":439.65,"endTime":443.34,"body":"long time, like, the way I self"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":439.65,"endTime":443.34,"body":"identified was, I have these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":443.34,"endTime":446.88,"body":"feelings of same sex attraction."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":443.34,"endTime":446.88,"body":"But it like wasn't working for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":446.88,"endTime":449.01,"body":"me. It was stressing me out. It"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":446.88,"endTime":449.01,"body":"was making my life more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":449.01,"endTime":452.97,"body":"difficult. I was hiding from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":449.01,"endTime":452.97,"body":"people. And then I started"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":452.97,"endTime":457.17,"body":"saying I was gay. And I started"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":452.97,"endTime":457.17,"body":"feeling lighter, and closer to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":457.17,"endTime":459.69,"body":"God. And I was like, this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":457.17,"endTime":459.69,"body":"really confusing, because like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":459.69,"endTime":462.9,"body":"I thought this was the word I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":459.69,"endTime":462.9,"body":"wasn't supposed to use. And,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":463.14,"endTime":467.1,"body":"like, that's just a small"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":463.14,"endTime":467.1,"body":"example of like, my growth, of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":467.1,"endTime":469.68,"body":"accepting myself is something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":467.1,"endTime":469.68,"body":"that like, I thought I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":469.68,"endTime":474.66,"body":"allowed to do. Like, I thought"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":469.68,"endTime":474.66,"body":"God didn't accept gay and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":474.66,"endTime":477.81,"body":"gayness, so me accepting myself"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":474.66,"endTime":477.81,"body":"and being more authentic and,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":478.29,"endTime":483.84,"body":"and like, owning that part of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":478.29,"endTime":483.84,"body":"me. Felt like, like, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":483.84,"endTime":487.44,"body":"is this spirit taking me here?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":483.84,"endTime":487.44,"body":"Or is like Satan taking me here?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":487.44,"endTime":490.35,"body":"Because I was always told that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":487.44,"endTime":490.35,"body":"like, Satan is the one that is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":490.35,"endTime":493.29,"body":"like, pushing for gay marriage"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":490.35,"endTime":493.29,"body":"and trying to like destroy the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":493.29,"endTime":495.03,"body":"family and things like that. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":493.29,"endTime":495.03,"body":"I was like, Oh, my gosh, is that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":495.03,"endTime":496.89,"body":"what I'm becoming? Hmm."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":497.37,"endTime":500.4,"body":"Yeah. Dave, when have you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":497.37,"endTime":500.4,"body":"worried about whether or not you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":500.4,"endTime":501.27,"body":"were being deceived?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":501.0,"endTime":504.15,"body":"It's so funny,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":501.0,"endTime":504.15,"body":"because when you texted and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":504.15,"endTime":506.76,"body":"said, that's where we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":504.15,"endTime":506.76,"body":"kind of talk about I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":507.48,"endTime":511.08,"body":"started thinking, and I was"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":507.48,"endTime":511.08,"body":"like, Well, I guess the thing"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":511.08,"endTime":515.4,"body":"is, by nature, you wouldn't know"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":511.08,"endTime":515.4,"body":"if you were being deceived. You"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":515.4,"endTime":518.46,"body":"know what I mean? Like, by"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":515.4,"endTime":518.46,"body":"definition of the word, if"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":518.46,"endTime":522.81,"body":"you're deceived, that means that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":518.46,"endTime":522.81,"body":"you believe fully, something"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":522.81,"endTime":527.64,"body":"that's false, right? And so you"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":522.81,"endTime":527.64,"body":"wouldn't ever like actually, it"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":527.64,"endTime":532.11,"body":"would take some sort of outside"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":527.64,"endTime":532.11,"body":"interference, or, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":532.11,"endTime":537.21,"body":"like, realize, like, Oh, hold"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":532.11,"endTime":537.21,"body":"on, I believed that really"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":537.21,"endTime":541.41,"body":"strongly. And I guess I was"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":537.21,"endTime":541.41,"body":"wrong. You know, about that, or,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":541.86,"endTime":544.05,"body":"I'm working through this, or"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":541.86,"endTime":544.05,"body":"whatever. And I thought that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":544.05,"endTime":546.21,"body":"would ,Charlie, when you were"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":544.05,"endTime":546.21,"body":"just talking I kind of thought"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":546.57,"endTime":550.05,"body":"my first inclination probably"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":546.57,"endTime":550.05,"body":"would have been when I realized,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":550.53,"endTime":553.2,"body":"you know, you say, like, Oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":550.53,"endTime":553.2,"body":"gay. And all of a sudden, I felt"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":553.2,"endTime":556.65,"body":"closer to God. They my first"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":553.2,"endTime":556.65,"body":"inclination probably being like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":556.68,"endTime":560.88,"body":"Oh, I guess I was wrong about"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":556.68,"endTime":560.88,"body":"what God thought about gayness."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":560.97,"endTime":565.14,"body":"Right. Right. Like, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":560.97,"endTime":565.14,"body":"Oh, actually, like, I believed"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":565.14,"endTime":569.07,"body":"something that was false"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":565.14,"endTime":569.07,"body":"earlier. You know, is it because"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":569.13,"endTime":571.29,"body":"because it goes both ways,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":569.13,"endTime":571.29,"body":"right? Because you're kind of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":571.29,"endTime":575.49,"body":"thinking, Oh, was I am I wrong"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":571.29,"endTime":575.49,"body":"right now? But maybe you were"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":575.49,"endTime":577.38,"body":"wrong. Does that actually"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":575.49,"endTime":577.38,"body":"happen?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":577.36,"endTime":579.16,"body":"I think that's why it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":577.36,"endTime":579.16,"body":"so difficult because this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":579.16,"endTime":583.18,"body":"juxtaposition of like, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":579.16,"endTime":583.18,"body":"then that makes what I learned"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":583.18,"endTime":584.98,"body":"at church deceptive."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":585.3,"endTime":588.69,"body":"Well, and I think"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":585.3,"endTime":588.69,"body":"that's a hard word because that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":588.69,"endTime":592.98,"body":"word deceive has like a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":588.69,"endTime":592.98,"body":"connotation of like, intention."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":593.04,"endTime":595.83,"body":"I don't know if it is for y'all."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":593.04,"endTime":595.83,"body":"Maybe that's just me when I hear"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":595.83,"endTime":596.76,"body":"the word deceive."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":596.79,"endTime":598.11,"body":"Well, let's define how"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":596.79,"endTime":598.11,"body":"we use it."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":598.0,"endTime":601.66,"body":"Yeah. Because when"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":598.0,"endTime":601.66,"body":"I hear that word, I sense like a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":601.66,"endTime":603.91,"body":"conniving, like a purposeful..."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":603.91,"endTime":604.36,"body":"Manipulation."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":604.36,"endTime":607.09,"body":"Right? Right? You"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":604.36,"endTime":607.09,"body":"know that word just carries that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":607.09,"endTime":612.52,"body":"feeling for me. And so we don't"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":607.09,"endTime":612.52,"body":"know, right? Like, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":612.52,"endTime":616.81,"body":"the intention if if someone"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":612.52,"endTime":616.81,"body":"taught me something wrong. Let's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":616.81,"endTime":619.63,"body":"say for example, I actually"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":616.81,"endTime":619.63,"body":"don't know the intention of that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":619.63,"endTime":624.16,"body":"person. And if I were to, like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":619.63,"endTime":624.16,"body":"accuse them, like just mentally,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":624.67,"endTime":628.42,"body":"and say, like, oh, You deceived"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":624.67,"endTime":628.42,"body":"me, I would be offended. If"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":628.42,"endTime":631.03,"body":"somebody said that, to me."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":628.42,"endTime":631.03,"body":"That's how I feel about the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":631.03,"endTime":632.68,"body":"word. You know, someone, I You"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":631.03,"endTime":632.68,"body":"deceived me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":632.68,"endTime":634.57,"body":"because if you've taught"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":632.68,"endTime":634.57,"body":"something that was like, untrue"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":634.57,"endTime":636.61,"body":"or mistaken, like, you never"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":634.57,"endTime":636.61,"body":"would have meant to do that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":636.64,"endTime":638.89,"body":"Right, right. I think I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":636.64,"endTime":638.89,"body":"would say like, Oh, I'm sorry,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":639.28,"endTime":643.66,"body":"the seed sounds so like, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":639.28,"endTime":643.66,"body":"just eat as like an evil"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":643.72,"endTime":647.23,"body":"connotation to it. And maybe it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":643.72,"endTime":647.23,"body":"does, you know, like, by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":647.23,"endTime":651.49,"body":"definition, it might not. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":647.23,"endTime":651.49,"body":"hear that word. And I think,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":651.79,"endTime":653.62,"body":"Well, you think of like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":651.79,"endTime":653.62,"body":"Satan being the father of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":653.62,"endTime":654.55,"body":"deception and lies."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":654.55,"endTime":656.92,"body":"Yeah, yeah. The"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":654.55,"endTime":656.92,"body":"deceiver, you know, and you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":656.92,"endTime":658.57,"body":"like, Oh, my goodness."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":659.17,"endTime":659.62,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":660.1,"endTime":663.22,"body":"So I was gonna say,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":660.1,"endTime":663.22,"body":"like, you know, I was deceived"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":663.22,"endTime":667.99,"body":"at church. And it's to me that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":663.22,"endTime":667.99,"body":"like, could there be somebody at"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":667.99,"endTime":672.64,"body":"church who's manipulative and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":667.99,"endTime":672.64,"body":"conniving? And yes, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":673.03,"endTime":675.58,"body":"For sure. There could be people"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":673.03,"endTime":675.58,"body":"like that at church, why would"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":675.58,"endTime":679.93,"body":"there not? Why could that not"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":675.58,"endTime":679.93,"body":"happen? Right? And if we go into"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":679.93,"endTime":680.35,"body":"church."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":680.35,"endTime":683.53,"body":"I hope they're at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":680.35,"endTime":683.53,"body":"church. Y'all better get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":683.53,"endTime":684.31,"body":"yourselves to church."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":685.29,"endTime":688.74,"body":"If I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":685.29,"endTime":688.74,"body":"church, you know, thinking to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":688.74,"endTime":691.35,"body":"myself, like, Oh, this is a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":688.74,"endTime":691.35,"body":"place where I could never be"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":691.35,"endTime":696.54,"body":"taught wrong, then I don't think"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":691.35,"endTime":696.54,"body":"that'd be a really smart, super"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":696.54,"endTime":700.98,"body":"healthy way to worship and to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":696.54,"endTime":700.98,"body":"think through and it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":700.98,"endTime":704.55,"body":"interesting, because, like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":700.98,"endTime":704.55,"body":"scripture, if we take scripture,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":704.55,"endTime":711.27,"body":"for example, we usually today go"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":704.55,"endTime":711.27,"body":"to scripture for answers. But"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":711.3,"endTime":714.57,"body":"scripture is actually wisdom"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":711.3,"endTime":714.57,"body":"literature, the ancients"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":714.6,"endTime":718.14,"body":"wouldn't have seen scripture"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":714.6,"endTime":718.14,"body":"having that purpose. The"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":718.14,"endTime":721.95,"body":"Scriptures, like began the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":718.14,"endTime":721.95,"body":"discussion, or continued it or"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":721.98,"endTime":726.87,"body":"in, like invoked, more feelings"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":721.98,"endTime":726.87,"body":"and questions about it. Like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":726.87,"endTime":729.63,"body":"that was its intention to get"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":726.87,"endTime":729.63,"body":"you talking, and to get you"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":729.63,"endTime":732.96,"body":"discovering and wondering and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":729.63,"endTime":732.96,"body":"stuff like that. We have such a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":732.96,"endTime":734.94,"body":"different culture scriptures"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":732.96,"endTime":734.94,"body":"today, right? We're just like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":734.97,"endTime":739.53,"body":"Oh, I go to the Scriptures to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":734.97,"endTime":739.53,"body":"end the argument. Right. But"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":739.56,"endTime":743.55,"body":"that that's scriptures to begin,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":739.56,"endTime":743.55,"body":"right. Right to be like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":743.55,"endTime":747.54,"body":"let's start to let's use this,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":743.55,"endTime":747.54,"body":"this, these words is the place"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":747.54,"endTime":750.33,"body":"to like, get into the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":747.54,"endTime":750.33,"body":"discussion, get into the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":750.33,"endTime":752.97,"body":"messiness of whatever it is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":750.33,"endTime":752.97,"body":"we're trying to figure out."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":753.23,"endTime":755.36,"body":"Yeah, well, and that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":753.23,"endTime":755.36,"body":"makes sense. Because, because,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":755.36,"endTime":759.53,"body":"like when I figured out things,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":755.36,"endTime":759.53,"body":"for example, like, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":759.53,"endTime":762.62,"body":"gonna keep using that because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":759.53,"endTime":762.62,"body":"it's like a safer and an easy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":762.62,"endTime":765.68,"body":"one to understand. Like, when I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":762.62,"endTime":765.68,"body":"started, like, accepting my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":765.68,"endTime":768.65,"body":"identity, and feeling good about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":765.68,"endTime":768.65,"body":"that. It made me question"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":769.4,"endTime":773.51,"body":"basically, everything I'd"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":769.4,"endTime":773.51,"body":"learned, right? Cuz I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":773.51,"endTime":776.75,"body":"Well, if that was wrong, what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":773.51,"endTime":776.75,"body":"else could be wrong? And that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":776.75,"endTime":779.78,"body":"think I was worried if I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":776.75,"endTime":779.78,"body":"being deceived, because that was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":779.78,"endTime":784.7,"body":"scary. It's scary to look at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":779.78,"endTime":784.7,"body":"your entire belief set and think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":785.21,"endTime":789.89,"body":"could couldn't could something"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":785.21,"endTime":789.89,"body":"else be wrong? You know, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":790.58,"endTime":792.14,"body":"you're saying that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":790.58,"endTime":792.14,"body":"healthy?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":793.85,"endTime":795.77,"body":"Honestly, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":793.85,"endTime":795.77,"body":"super healthy. Like when when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":795.8,"endTime":799.28,"body":"President Uchtdorf said a few"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":795.8,"endTime":799.28,"body":"years ago, like, we should doubt"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":799.28,"endTime":802.13,"body":"our doubts. I don't think like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":799.28,"endTime":802.13,"body":"the skill to like doubt your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":802.13,"endTime":804.95,"body":"doubts is also learning how to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":802.13,"endTime":804.95,"body":"like doubt what you know, as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":804.95,"endTime":807.65,"body":"well, like just this, I think"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":804.95,"endTime":807.65,"body":"it's really healthy to like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":808.01,"endTime":809.39,"body":"examine and look at it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":809.42,"endTime":811.46,"body":"Yeah. It's not like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":809.42,"endTime":811.46,"body":"disregard your doubts?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":811.49,"endTime":813.65,"body":"Yeah. It's like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":811.49,"endTime":813.65,"body":"I believe this and why do I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":813.65,"endTime":816.98,"body":"believe this? And, and, and look"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":813.65,"endTime":816.98,"body":"at the fruits of it."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":816.0,"endTime":819.45,"body":"And well, and I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":816.0,"endTime":819.45,"body":"think like, you're, we're"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":819.45,"endTime":821.97,"body":"talking about what's the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":819.45,"endTime":821.97,"body":"opposite of like that word, we"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":821.97,"endTime":826.14,"body":"use the beginning, stagnant,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":821.97,"endTime":826.14,"body":"like it feels really stale and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":826.14,"endTime":829.05,"body":"stagnant for just like for"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":826.14,"endTime":829.05,"body":"everything to be so cut and dry."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":829.38,"endTime":832.77,"body":"And I actually think beliefs"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":829.38,"endTime":832.77,"body":"have a lot more thrill and power"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":832.77,"endTime":837.09,"body":"to them. If, if we, if we can"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":832.77,"endTime":837.09,"body":"doubt them if they can be wrong,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":837.12,"endTime":840.03,"body":"you know, does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":837.12,"endTime":840.03,"body":"Like, oh, now, yes, all of a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":840.03,"endTime":841.95,"body":"sudden, there's like an"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":840.03,"endTime":841.95,"body":"excitement to things that you"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":841.95,"endTime":845.4,"body":"believe in you have race and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":841.95,"endTime":845.4,"body":"like, if you can't be wrong,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":845.46,"endTime":847.77,"body":"like all of that is, is lost."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":847.8,"endTime":850.47,"body":"It turns into like an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":847.8,"endTime":850.47,"body":"obstacle course instead of just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":850.47,"endTime":851.73,"body":"like running around a track."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":852.21,"endTime":853.29,"body":"Wait, tell me what"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":852.21,"endTime":853.29,"body":"you mean by that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":853.35,"endTime":856.5,"body":"I'm thinking of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":853.35,"endTime":856.5,"body":"what's that show I like to watch"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":856.5,"endTime":860.28,"body":"for the people fall off the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":856.5,"endTime":860.28,"body":"rings, American Ninja Warrior,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":860.58,"endTime":862.89,"body":"like, like, it becomes an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":860.58,"endTime":862.89,"body":"American Ninja Warrior course,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":862.89,"endTime":866.43,"body":"like, anyone can just like walk"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":862.89,"endTime":866.43,"body":"down and be bored, like doing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":866.43,"endTime":868.95,"body":"circles on a track. But if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":866.43,"endTime":868.95,"body":"you're like, on a course or like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":868.95,"endTime":871.29,"body":"going trail running, like takes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":868.95,"endTime":871.29,"body":"it into a place that you've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":871.29,"endTime":874.35,"body":"never seen before. And it makes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":871.29,"endTime":874.35,"body":"you stay on your toes."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":874.72,"endTime":878.35,"body":"Yeah, I think if we"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":874.72,"endTime":878.35,"body":"were to say, Oh, I like it this"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":878.35,"endTime":882.04,"body":"way, because it is super safe."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":878.35,"endTime":882.04,"body":"Then I would say Oh, then you"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":882.04,"endTime":886.57,"body":"give up, like courage and wimzie"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":882.04,"endTime":886.57,"body":"on the other side. If you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":886.57,"endTime":889.81,"body":"going to be safe, it means that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":886.57,"endTime":889.81,"body":"you're you're always going to be"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":889.81,"endTime":893.65,"body":"safe, it means you won't get to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":889.81,"endTime":893.65,"body":"experience like the other side"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":893.65,"endTime":899.59,"body":"of where those things, you know"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":893.65,"endTime":899.59,"body":"could be like so it seems nice"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":899.62,"endTime":903.34,"body":"to try and make it really cut"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":899.62,"endTime":903.34,"body":"and dry. Let's make the profit"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":903.34,"endTime":907.0,"body":"of fax machine. So that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":903.34,"endTime":907.0,"body":"everything is never"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":907.0,"endTime":910.39,"body":"misinterpreted, always straight"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":907.0,"endTime":910.39,"body":"from God, like, you know, but"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":910.39,"endTime":915.25,"body":"the fact that like we can"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":910.39,"endTime":915.25,"body":"interpret and speak wrong and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":915.31,"endTime":920.41,"body":"accidentally leave, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":915.31,"endTime":920.41,"body":"like, like the fact that anybody"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":920.41,"endTime":923.29,"body":"can do that on any level,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":920.41,"endTime":923.29,"body":"actually, like makes it"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":923.29,"endTime":929.32,"body":"imperative for us to live a life"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":923.29,"endTime":929.32,"body":"led by the Spirit. And like it,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":929.62,"endTime":933.76,"body":"it makes it so you like oh my"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":929.62,"endTime":933.76,"body":"gosh, we have to every day, we"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":933.76,"endTime":939.43,"body":"have to like work through this"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":933.76,"endTime":939.43,"body":"and adjust and think and but"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":939.43,"endTime":942.73,"body":"that's what it means to be"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":939.43,"endTime":942.73,"body":"alive. So I wouldn't want to get"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":942.73,"endTime":943.18,"body":"rid of it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":943.3,"endTime":945.46,"body":"As you guys were talking I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":943.3,"endTime":945.46,"body":"thought about this scripture in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":945.46,"endTime":949.24,"body":"2 Nephi 28. And Nephi kind of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":945.46,"endTime":949.24,"body":"goes through a couple of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":949.24,"endTime":952.78,"body":"examples of how the devil tries"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":949.24,"endTime":952.78,"body":"to deceive us. He says, this is"},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":952.78,"endTime":957.58,"body":"27, \"yea wo be unto"},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":952.78,"endTime":957.58,"body":"him that say we have received"},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":957.64,"endTime":961.57,"body":"and we need no more.\" You know,"},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":957.64,"endTime":961.57,"body":"I think this is really good at"},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":961.57,"endTime":964.0,"body":"that, like, you know, we"},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":961.57,"endTime":964.0,"body":"shouldn't have a stagnant faith"},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":964.0,"endTime":967.03,"body":"we shouldn't have like, if we"},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":964.0,"endTime":967.03,"body":"think that what we believe and"},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":967.03,"endTime":970.42,"body":"know, and how we've been led to"},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":967.03,"endTime":970.42,"body":"where we are like, that's it."},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":970.45,"endTime":972.85,"body":"Like that's like, we're warned"},{"speaker":"2 Nephi 28","startTime":970.45,"endTime":972.85,"body":"against that."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":972.94,"endTime":974.95,"body":"That's a cool, what"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":972.94,"endTime":974.95,"body":"verse is that, because I've"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":974.95,"endTime":977.17,"body":"never read it like that before."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":974.95,"endTime":977.17,"body":"That's actually super rad."},{"speaker":"Ben: It's 2 Nephi 27","startTime":977.23,"endTime":980.14,"body":"28 no"},{"speaker":"Ben: It's 2 Nephi 27","startTime":977.23,"endTime":980.14,"body":"28:27."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":980.81,"endTime":984.8,"body":"So like, I wonder if by"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":980.81,"endTime":984.8,"body":"definition, to have faith, it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":984.8,"endTime":987.59,"body":"must be challenged. Because if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":984.8,"endTime":987.59,"body":"it's not challenged, there's no"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":987.59,"endTime":988.31,"body":"need for faith."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":988.49,"endTime":990.83,"body":"Oh, it seems so"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":988.49,"endTime":990.83,"body":"like, right? Can you say that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":990.83,"endTime":994.46,"body":"you trust somebody? If there's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":990.83,"endTime":994.46,"body":"not an opportunity to like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":994.49,"endTime":998.54,"body":"mistrust or, you know, trust"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":994.49,"endTime":998.54,"body":"somebody is like, that's a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":998.57,"endTime":1001.12,"body":"that's a step into the dark as"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":998.57,"endTime":1001.12,"body":"people like to say like that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1001.12,"endTime":1005.71,"body":"really is like, yeah, I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1001.12,"endTime":1005.71,"body":"I'm making a decision. I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1005.71,"endTime":1010.27,"body":"leaning on you. I have reason"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1005.71,"endTime":1010.27,"body":"to, but it's like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1010.27,"endTime":1012.64,"body":"actually know for, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1010.27,"endTime":1012.64,"body":"sure."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1012.93,"endTime":1015.45,"body":"Yeah. And I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1012.93,"endTime":1015.45,"body":"that question has made me a more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1015.45,"endTime":1019.35,"body":"engaged believer, for example,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1015.45,"endTime":1019.35,"body":"to take a like another like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1019.35,"endTime":1021.84,"body":"General Conference talk that was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1019.35,"endTime":1021.84,"body":"given that didn't sit well with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1021.84,"endTime":1026.19,"body":"me, it probably was the same"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1021.84,"endTime":1026.19,"body":"one, honestly. I was I like had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1026.19,"endTime":1029.1,"body":"a similar I was like, Oh my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1026.19,"endTime":1029.1,"body":"gosh, am I wrong? Like is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1029.1,"endTime":1031.92,"body":"everything I believe, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1029.1,"endTime":1031.92,"body":"what's real? And I ended up"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1031.92,"endTime":1034.53,"body":"printing that off and going"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1031.92,"endTime":1034.53,"body":"through and like high like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1034.53,"endTime":1037.14,"body":"praying about it and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1034.53,"endTime":1037.14,"body":"highlighting and being like, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1037.14,"endTime":1039.63,"body":"know what, there are these"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1037.14,"endTime":1039.63,"body":"principles and these themes and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1039.63,"endTime":1042.45,"body":"these quotes within this talk"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1039.63,"endTime":1042.45,"body":"that I believe are true and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1042.45,"endTime":1046.92,"body":"resonate. And are these things"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1042.45,"endTime":1046.92,"body":"that like, I don't know, like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1046.92,"endTime":1051.09,"body":"don't like to be like frank,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1046.92,"endTime":1051.09,"body":"like, I don't believe them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1051.15,"endTime":1055.2,"body":"Right? Yeah. But like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1051.15,"endTime":1055.2,"body":"process of like, owning my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1055.2,"endTime":1059.37,"body":"testimony like that, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1055.2,"endTime":1059.37,"body":"exercising faith was really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1059.37,"endTime":1063.12,"body":"cool. And really building and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1059.37,"endTime":1063.12,"body":"then it's made me like, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1063.12,"endTime":1066.21,"body":"whenever something's said, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1063.12,"endTime":1066.21,"body":"might before I just take this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1066.21,"endTime":1070.53,"body":"and like, tack it on this, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1066.21,"endTime":1070.53,"body":"push pin board of testimony. I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1070.53,"endTime":1072.63,"body":"gonna like pray about it and see"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1070.53,"endTime":1072.63,"body":"if I want to put it up there."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1072.78,"endTime":1075.54,"body":"Like is that what's true for me?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1075.57,"endTime":1077.97,"body":"You know, to take"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1075.57,"endTime":1077.97,"body":"something like that that's such"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1077.97,"endTime":1081.81,"body":"a cool practice and when you"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1077.97,"endTime":1081.81,"body":"were saying that I was like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1081.81,"endTime":1086.4,"body":"and then I, my personality is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1081.81,"endTime":1086.4,"body":"would have quickly gone to other"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1086.4,"endTime":1089.46,"body":"people. Maybe quicker. I don't"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1086.4,"endTime":1089.46,"body":"know, I was about to say that I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1089.46,"endTime":1092.28,"body":"should. But I don't even think"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1089.46,"endTime":1092.28,"body":"there's a should or shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1092.28,"endTime":1095.4,"body":"with that. I would have taken"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1092.28,"endTime":1095.4,"body":"that talk and quickly brought"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1095.4,"endTime":1097.71,"body":"other people into the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1095.4,"endTime":1097.71,"body":"conversation and just been like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1097.71,"endTime":1101.88,"body":"yeah, wait, do you think this is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1097.71,"endTime":1101.88,"body":"true? Like, I'm really bugged by"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1101.88,"endTime":1105.42,"body":"this. And like, let's I want to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1101.88,"endTime":1105.42,"body":"think through it. I just think"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1105.42,"endTime":1107.85,"body":"through things better with and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1105.42,"endTime":1107.85,"body":"you know, other people too, you"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1107.85,"endTime":1110.85,"body":"know, so it's just like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1107.85,"endTime":1110.85,"body":"that's what I was thinking."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1111.29,"endTime":1113.45,"body":"Ben, do you remember"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1111.29,"endTime":1113.45,"body":"when I asked you this exact"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1113.45,"endTime":1118.67,"body":"question? I do. So we were at a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1113.45,"endTime":1118.67,"body":"USGA meeting, which is like an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1118.67,"endTime":1122.27,"body":"unofficial BYU group. And I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1118.67,"endTime":1122.27,"body":"just like, barely, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1122.27,"endTime":1125.75,"body":"stepping out and was like trying"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1122.27,"endTime":1125.75,"body":"to fly under the radar."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1125.78,"endTime":1126.98,"body":"You were such a little baby"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1125.78,"endTime":1126.98,"body":"gay."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1127.04,"endTime":1128.66,"body":"I was a little baby"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1127.04,"endTime":1128.66,"body":"gay. And it really wasn't that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1128.69,"endTime":1132.77,"body":"long ago. But I we were in a BYU"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1128.69,"endTime":1132.77,"body":"working group together. So we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1132.77,"endTime":1136.1,"body":"kind of knew each other. And I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1132.77,"endTime":1136.1,"body":"would like walk there right"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1136.1,"endTime":1138.41,"body":"after practice. And I live like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1136.1,"endTime":1138.41,"body":"on the other side of town. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1138.41,"endTime":1142.55,"body":"Ben would like pretty much every"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1138.41,"endTime":1142.55,"body":"week drive me home. And one time"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1142.55,"endTime":1146.15,"body":"you drove me home, and you told"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1142.55,"endTime":1146.15,"body":"the story that I thought like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1146.18,"endTime":1148.46,"body":"sounded ridiculous, but also"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1146.18,"endTime":1148.46,"body":"felt true to me."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1149.93,"endTime":1150.62,"body":"What's the story?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1154.58,"endTime":1157.16,"body":"Cuz you made out with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1154.58,"endTime":1157.16,"body":"your boyfriend? And then the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1157.16,"endTime":1159.47,"body":"next day, were like, I need to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1157.16,"endTime":1159.47,"body":"go to the temple. And you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1159.47,"endTime":1162.68,"body":"like, Am I worthy? And you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1159.47,"endTime":1162.68,"body":"like, yeah. And so like, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1162.68,"endTime":1165.68,"body":"went to the temple, and I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1162.68,"endTime":1165.68,"body":"like, you can kiss a boy and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1165.68,"endTime":1169.07,"body":"then go to the temple? I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1165.68,"endTime":1169.07,"body":"like, what? But then like, going"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1169.07,"endTime":1171.05,"body":"to the temple was like a really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1169.07,"endTime":1171.05,"body":"good experience for you and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1171.05,"endTime":1172.97,"body":"helped you like, understand"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1171.05,"endTime":1172.97,"body":"where you fit and where you want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1172.97,"endTime":1173.6,"body":"it to move forward."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1173.6,"endTime":1174.38,"body":"Exactly what I need it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1174.38,"endTime":1176.99,"body":"Yeah. So I was just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1174.38,"endTime":1176.99,"body":"like, that, like rocked my"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1176.99,"endTime":1179.78,"body":"world. I was not ready to hear"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1176.99,"endTime":1179.78,"body":"that. And I remember thinking I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1179.78,"endTime":1183.53,"body":"was like, Oh my gosh, like, is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1179.78,"endTime":1183.53,"body":"Ben, like some sort of like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1183.8,"endTime":1188.69,"body":"demon. Like, is he like, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1183.8,"endTime":1188.69,"body":"manipulating me and trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1188.69,"endTime":1189.77,"body":"get me to believe something?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1189.95,"endTime":1190.34,"body":"Maybe."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1190.46,"endTime":1193.43,"body":"it sounded shocking to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1190.46,"endTime":1193.43,"body":"me. And I was like, Ben, are we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1193.43,"endTime":1198.53,"body":"being deceived? Should I just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1193.43,"endTime":1198.53,"body":"like, hate myself again and try"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1198.53,"endTime":1201.32,"body":"to marry a woman even though"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1198.53,"endTime":1201.32,"body":"it's like really not working for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1201.32,"endTime":1205.22,"body":"me? And should I just go back to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1201.32,"endTime":1205.22,"body":"the closet where I was living"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1205.22,"endTime":1205.88,"body":"for so long?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1205.91,"endTime":1206.48,"body":"What did I say?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1206.479,"endTime":1210.529,"body":"Everything felt like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1206.479,"endTime":1210.529,"body":"dangerous but safe. That's like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1210.649,"endTime":1214.699,"body":"I don't know, looming, but say"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1210.649,"endTime":1214.699,"body":"like, heavy but safe. And you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1214.699,"endTime":1218.719,"body":"like, I don't know, maybe, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1214.699,"endTime":1218.719,"body":"like, How do you feel? What are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1218.749,"endTime":1221.389,"body":"basically you asked me what the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1218.749,"endTime":1221.389,"body":"fruits of like coming out and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1221.389,"endTime":1225.379,"body":"like starting this journey had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1221.389,"endTime":1225.379,"body":"been and had Ben."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1226.16,"endTime":1226.61,"body":"Good pun."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1226.67,"endTime":1232.4,"body":"And I was like, Well,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1226.67,"endTime":1232.4,"body":"I'm happier. I can sleep now. I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1232.4,"endTime":1236.81,"body":"don't have panic attacks, I can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1232.4,"endTime":1236.81,"body":"pray without apologizing that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1237.08,"endTime":1240.02,"body":"I'm even praying. Like, I can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1237.08,"endTime":1240.02,"body":"ask questions. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1240.14,"endTime":1243.2,"body":"Oh my gosh, I'm not being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1240.14,"endTime":1243.2,"body":"deceived. Like I'm growing and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1243.2,"endTime":1246.77,"body":"getting healthier. But but but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1243.2,"endTime":1246.77,"body":"like, it was still weird because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1246.77,"endTime":1250.37,"body":"I honestly thought that like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1246.77,"endTime":1250.37,"body":"like accepting sexual"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1250.37,"endTime":1253.61,"body":"orientation was like a great"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1250.37,"endTime":1253.61,"body":"sin. Because that's what I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1253.61,"endTime":1256.49,"body":"been instilled with. But it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1253.61,"endTime":1256.49,"body":"actually like really helps me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1256.49,"endTime":1257.42,"body":"get to God."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1257.78,"endTime":1260.09,"body":"I'm so wise, it's always to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1257.78,"endTime":1260.09,"body":"look at the fruits of what was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1260.09,"endTime":1260.54,"body":"happening."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1260.57,"endTime":1262.22,"body":"So that's when I made"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1260.57,"endTime":1262.22,"body":"out with the guy that went to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1262.22,"endTime":1265.28,"body":"the temple. Just like you, Ben."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1265.31,"endTime":1266.12,"body":"You did not."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1266.27,"endTime":1267.95,"body":"I didn't. We can cut"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1266.27,"endTime":1267.95,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1270.98,"endTime":1272.84,"body":"But yeah, I think I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1270.98,"endTime":1272.84,"body":"know if I said this in this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1272.84,"endTime":1275.66,"body":"conversation. But sometimes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1272.84,"endTime":1275.66,"body":"people are like, well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1275.84,"endTime":1278.54,"body":"feeling this way. But I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1275.84,"endTime":1278.54,"body":"sure if it's right or true. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1278.54,"endTime":1281.27,"body":"I like well, what happened when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1278.54,"endTime":1281.27,"body":"you like, got your testimony of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1281.27,"endTime":1284.36,"body":"the Book of Mormon or the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1281.27,"endTime":1284.36,"body":"restoration? Like, is it that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1284.36,"endTime":1287.96,"body":"same feeling? Like, I've just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1284.36,"endTime":1287.96,"body":"learned ways that I've learned"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1287.96,"endTime":1292.34,"body":"truth. And so, you know, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1287.96,"endTime":1292.34,"body":"learning a truth that that feels"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1292.34,"endTime":1295.79,"body":"like tougher, or different than"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1292.34,"endTime":1295.79,"body":"I had expected? Like, same thing"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1295.79,"endTime":1299.66,"body":"like with how I self define, or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1295.79,"endTime":1299.66,"body":"self identify? Yeah, like, the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1299.66,"endTime":1301.04,"body":"spirit sounds the same."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1301.22,"endTime":1303.62,"body":"Yeah. And for me, it's,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1301.22,"endTime":1303.62,"body":"it's kind of with this, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1303.62,"endTime":1307.07,"body":"more like the feeling of before"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1303.62,"endTime":1307.07,"body":"I left on my mission, like that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1307.07,"endTime":1311.06,"body":"faith step, because it was scary"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1307.07,"endTime":1311.06,"body":"to step into a new space. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1311.06,"endTime":1314.18,"body":"had to, like, I guess, even"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1311.06,"endTime":1314.18,"body":"like, in the restoration, Joseph"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1314.18,"endTime":1316.46,"body":"Smith had to go through like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1314.18,"endTime":1316.46,"body":"that period of dark and like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1316.46,"endTime":1320.48,"body":"doubt, before the light came"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1316.46,"endTime":1320.48,"body":"through, you know, and it's hard"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1320.48,"endTime":1323.54,"body":"to move through that, before you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1320.48,"endTime":1323.54,"body":"get to the light."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1323.66,"endTime":1325.94,"body":"Yeah, that's super"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1323.66,"endTime":1325.94,"body":"interesting. I love that concept"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1325.94,"endTime":1328.7,"body":"of it's something that I've just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1325.94,"endTime":1328.7,"body":"been thinking a lot about,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1328.7,"endTime":1333.35,"body":"actually, recently is that, what"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1328.7,"endTime":1333.35,"body":"are the fruits of these"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1333.35,"endTime":1336.86,"body":"decisions, and even to use like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1333.35,"endTime":1336.86,"body":"an eye of faith a little bit and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1336.86,"endTime":1340.46,"body":"to look forward? And just kind"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1336.86,"endTime":1340.46,"body":"of say, like, if I perpetuated"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1341.12,"endTime":1345.08,"body":"this, like, what, what might"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1341.12,"endTime":1345.08,"body":"that end up looking like? You"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1345.08,"endTime":1348.5,"body":"know, in the future? Also, like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1345.08,"endTime":1348.5,"body":"obviously, you don't know for"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1348.5,"endTime":1352.82,"body":"sure. But I think asking what"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1348.5,"endTime":1352.82,"body":"are the fruits of this is one of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1352.82,"endTime":1357.2,"body":"the wisest questions that a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1352.82,"endTime":1357.2,"body":"person could ask, right? That's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1357.2,"endTime":1362.66,"body":"how Paul describes spirit best,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1357.2,"endTime":1362.66,"body":"I think in scripture, is he"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1362.72,"endTime":1365.3,"body":"coined that phrase, and then you"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1362.72,"endTime":1365.3,"body":"can you can kind of use it"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1365.3,"endTime":1368.63,"body":"across all of scriptures. Like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1365.3,"endTime":1368.63,"body":"what are the what are the fruits"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1368.66,"endTime":1373.22,"body":"of, I mean, the reality is,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1368.66,"endTime":1373.22,"body":"like, there's segments of our"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1373.22,"endTime":1376.91,"body":"lives where we, where we are"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1373.22,"endTime":1376.91,"body":"wrong. And we just don't know,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1377.39,"endTime":1379.67,"body":"like, at all times, but doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1377.39,"endTime":1379.67,"body":"mean like, we're all wrong, or"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1379.67,"endTime":1383.21,"body":"all right. Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1379.67,"endTime":1383.21,"body":"Like, there's just gonna be"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1383.63,"endTime":1386.18,"body":"parts of us that we're just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1383.63,"endTime":1386.18,"body":"working through at different"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1386.21,"endTime":1388.91,"body":"levels and different"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1386.21,"endTime":1388.91,"body":"intensities, like all the time?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1389.87,"endTime":1392.33,"body":"And I think just constantly"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1389.87,"endTime":1392.33,"body":"asking, like, Okay, what are"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1392.33,"endTime":1394.82,"body":"like, you know, should I be"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1392.33,"endTime":1394.82,"body":"like, if it's something that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1394.82,"endTime":1398.99,"body":"we're doing, should I be doing"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1394.82,"endTime":1398.99,"body":"this? Or if I am believing this,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1398.99,"endTime":1401.15,"body":"like, what are the fruits of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1398.99,"endTime":1401.15,"body":"actually believing this"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1401.15,"endTime":1404.27,"body":"particular? I mean, that's what"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1401.15,"endTime":1404.27,"body":"Alma does, right with his"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1404.27,"endTime":1408.38,"body":"experiment chapter, 32. He's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1404.27,"endTime":1408.38,"body":"like, plant this in your heart,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1409.01,"endTime":1412.85,"body":"and see what it does, like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1409.01,"endTime":1412.85,"body":"embrace this particular truth."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1412.88,"endTime":1415.55,"body":"Now, he's talking about a super"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1412.88,"endTime":1415.55,"body":"particular truth in that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1415.55,"endTime":1419.69,"body":"chapter. But I think it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1415.55,"endTime":1419.69,"body":"applicable to say, like, if I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1419.75,"endTime":1423.53,"body":"plant this one, and there is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1419.75,"endTime":1423.53,"body":"actually this phrase in there,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1423.77,"endTime":1426.59,"body":"where he says this, which is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1423.77,"endTime":1426.59,"body":"really interesting, someone"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1426.59,"endTime":1429.23,"body":"pointed this out to me, like a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1426.59,"endTime":1429.23,"body":"year ago, and I was like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1429.26,"endTime":1433.1,"body":"that is actually really cool."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1429.26,"endTime":1433.1,"body":"Where he says, Okay, \"now give,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1433.16,"endTime":1436.07,"body":"if you will give place that a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1433.16,"endTime":1436.07,"body":"seed maybe planted in your"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1436.07,"endTime":1440.6,"body":"heart\", or the seed in this one"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1436.07,"endTime":1440.6,"body":"is, is a particular truth or"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1440.6,"endTime":1444.05,"body":"idea, right? That's what the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1440.6,"endTime":1444.05,"body":"seed is being compared to the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1444.05,"endTime":1450.44,"body":"word, a word, right? \"If it be a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1444.05,"endTime":1450.44,"body":"true seed, or a good seed\", and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1450.44,"endTime":1454.1,"body":"he uses both of the words right"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1450.44,"endTime":1454.1,"body":"there, a true one, and a good"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1454.1,"endTime":1457.94,"body":"one. But then for the rest of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1454.1,"endTime":1457.94,"body":"the chapter, he drops one of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1457.94,"endTime":1462.2,"body":"those two additives and only"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1457.94,"endTime":1462.2,"body":"keeps one for the rest of his"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1462.2,"endTime":1467.09,"body":"sermon. And he drops true. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1462.2,"endTime":1467.09,"body":"he just focuses on good for the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1467.09,"endTime":1470.54,"body":"rest of the chapter. That's not"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1467.09,"endTime":1470.54,"body":"to say that, like whether"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1470.54,"endTime":1474.59,"body":"something is true or not, is not"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1470.54,"endTime":1474.59,"body":"important. But I do love that he"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1474.59,"endTime":1478.58,"body":"starts to emphasize Let's not"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1474.59,"endTime":1478.58,"body":"talk about whether it's true or"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1478.58,"endTime":1483.53,"body":"not. Let's talk about whether it"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1478.58,"endTime":1483.53,"body":"is good or not. Is it having"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1483.53,"endTime":1487.91,"body":"these good reactions? Is it like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1483.53,"endTime":1487.91,"body":"is it making our, are we more"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1487.91,"endTime":1491.0,"body":"enlightened? Is it more"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1487.91,"endTime":1491.0,"body":"delicious? Is it more like he's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1491.0,"endTime":1494.6,"body":"like, let's talk about that,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1491.0,"endTime":1494.6,"body":"instead of being so focused on"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1494.6,"endTime":1498.77,"body":"is this right or wrong? True or"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1494.6,"endTime":1498.77,"body":"false? He's like, how about Is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1498.77,"endTime":1499.64,"body":"this good?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1500.18,"endTime":1502.31,"body":"Like almost like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1500.18,"endTime":1502.31,"body":"spiritually stimulating."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1502.34,"endTime":1504.98,"body":"Yeah. Right. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1502.34,"endTime":1504.98,"body":"like he tells you what some of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1504.98,"endTime":1508.43,"body":"the fruits are there, he only"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1504.98,"endTime":1508.43,"body":"mentions four. But Paul mentions"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1508.46,"endTime":1511.28,"body":"even more, right? And you could"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1508.46,"endTime":1511.28,"body":"find several throughout"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1511.28,"endTime":1514.7,"body":"scripture, or just through your,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1511.28,"endTime":1514.7,"body":"you know, own experience and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1514.7,"endTime":1516.98,"body":"others, like people will use"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1514.7,"endTime":1516.98,"body":"different synonyms, right to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1516.98,"endTime":1521.12,"body":"describe what that might be. But"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1516.98,"endTime":1521.12,"body":"like, I really, really loved"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1521.12,"endTime":1523.73,"body":"that whole, and it seems like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1521.12,"endTime":1523.73,"body":"you know, those verses at the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1523.73,"endTime":1528.17,"body":"very end that missionaries love"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1523.73,"endTime":1528.17,"body":"to use in Moroni, I sometimes"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1528.17,"endTime":1530.99,"body":"think, Oh, I think Moroni was"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1528.17,"endTime":1530.99,"body":"reading Alma right before he"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1530.99,"endTime":1535.52,"body":"wrote this because he says this,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1530.99,"endTime":1535.52,"body":"by the power of the Holy Ghost,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1535.52,"endTime":1539.45,"body":"you may know the truth of all"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1535.52,"endTime":1539.45,"body":"things. And then he says in the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1539.45,"endTime":1542.72,"body":"verse right after, and I wish"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1539.45,"endTime":1542.72,"body":"someone would have told me, oh,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1542.72,"endTime":1544.76,"body":"you can actually share with"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1542.72,"endTime":1544.76,"body":"people the verse right after and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1544.76,"endTime":1547.37,"body":"your mission, verse six is good,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1544.76,"endTime":1547.37,"body":"too. Yeah, that's the one. He"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1547.37,"endTime":1552.38,"body":"says whatsoever thing is good,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1547.37,"endTime":1552.38,"body":"is just and true. And so it kind"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1552.38,"endTime":1557.18,"body":"of comes back to that same idea"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1552.38,"endTime":1557.18,"body":"of like, what is it good? You"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1557.18,"endTime":1558.68,"body":"know, what are the fruits of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1557.18,"endTime":1558.68,"body":"this?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1558.95,"endTime":1563.21,"body":"So I'm an overly confident"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1558.95,"endTime":1563.21,"body":"person, just by nature. And so I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1563.21,"endTime":1566.3,"body":"don't often worry, like, am I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1563.21,"endTime":1566.3,"body":"being deceived? But I've been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1566.3,"endTime":1569.81,"body":"told a lot that I'm being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1566.3,"endTime":1569.81,"body":"deceived by other people."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1569.84,"endTime":1570.74,"body":"Yeah, me, too."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1570.77,"endTime":1572.51,"body":"So Dave, what advice would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1570.77,"endTime":1572.51,"body":"you give for someone who's like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1572.51,"endTime":1575.12,"body":"being told by like, friends or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1572.51,"endTime":1575.12,"body":"family or loved one, that the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1575.12,"endTime":1578.45,"body":"choices they're making are bad,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1575.12,"endTime":1578.45,"body":"but they feel that they're good?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1578.96,"endTime":1581.78,"body":"Well, I think that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1578.96,"endTime":1581.78,"body":"then opens up an opportunity for"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1581.78,"endTime":1585.41,"body":"a person to just like, explore"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1581.78,"endTime":1585.41,"body":"that. Right? Like, who like why"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1585.41,"endTime":1589.61,"body":"does somebody have like the, the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1585.41,"endTime":1589.61,"body":"knowledge and know what, they"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1589.61,"endTime":1592.73,"body":"could be being deceived? Right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1589.61,"endTime":1592.73,"body":"Does that make sense? And so"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1592.73,"endTime":1595.58,"body":"it's like, that's not cut and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1592.73,"endTime":1595.58,"body":"dry for you to say that to you."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1595.58,"endTime":1598.58,"body":"But I also think it's really"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1595.58,"endTime":1598.58,"body":"healthy. Like y'all were talking"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1598.58,"endTime":1602.6,"body":"about in some of your stories"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1598.58,"endTime":1602.6,"body":"earlier, that is say, to begin"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1602.63,"endTime":1607.97,"body":"that with like, well, it is a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1602.63,"endTime":1607.97,"body":"very likely possibility that I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1607.97,"endTime":1612.65,"body":"am being deceived. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1607.97,"endTime":1612.65,"body":"am, I have been around the Sun"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1612.86,"endTime":1618.8,"body":"30 times only. So and my"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1612.86,"endTime":1618.8,"body":"experiences are so limited in"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1618.8,"endTime":1624.08,"body":"this world. Obviously, I am"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1618.8,"endTime":1624.08,"body":"easily, I can easily be tricked"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1624.11,"endTime":1626.69,"body":"and deceived. So I think it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1624.11,"endTime":1626.69,"body":"healthy to go into it and just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1626.69,"endTime":1629.87,"body":"be like, instead of playing like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1626.69,"endTime":1629.87,"body":"ah ah wait, your you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1629.87,"endTime":1633.5,"body":"just like, okay, that's true. I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1629.87,"endTime":1633.5,"body":"could be and you could also be"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1633.5,"endTime":1637.76,"body":"wrong to who are saying that to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1633.5,"endTime":1637.76,"body":"me? And most likely, we're both"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1637.76,"endTime":1642.74,"body":"wrong somehow. Right. And so I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1637.76,"endTime":1642.74,"body":"actually, I wish someone would"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1642.74,"endTime":1646.52,"body":"never say that to somebody,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1642.74,"endTime":1646.52,"body":"because if it's a friend, they"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1646.52,"endTime":1652.01,"body":"probably wouldn't say it to you."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1646.52,"endTime":1652.01,"body":"But rather like, let's begin a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1652.01,"endTime":1656.15,"body":"discussion about this. Let's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1652.01,"endTime":1656.15,"body":"engage, you know, in this,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1656.51,"endTime":1657.8,"body":"that's what, that's what I would"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1656.51,"endTime":1657.8,"body":"think."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1658.31,"endTime":1660.38,"body":"I have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1658.31,"endTime":1660.38,"body":"thoughts, and I might move into"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1660.38,"endTime":1661.55,"body":"some tricky territory."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1661.64,"endTime":1662.21,"body":"Go ahead, Charlie."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1663.26,"endTime":1666.23,"body":"Okay. I think that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1663.26,"endTime":1666.23,"body":"been most difficult for me when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1666.23,"endTime":1670.37,"body":"I feel like I've received"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1666.23,"endTime":1670.37,"body":"personal revelation that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1671.0,"endTime":1674.3,"body":"looking different from ever,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1671.0,"endTime":1674.3,"body":"like what everybody else"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1674.3,"endTime":1678.08,"body":"believes, or like, current"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1674.3,"endTime":1678.08,"body":"church teachings. I'm like, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1678.08,"endTime":1685.01,"body":"don't like feeling like I know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1678.08,"endTime":1685.01,"body":"more about a gay identity than"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1685.46,"endTime":1686.36,"body":"leaders."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1686.9,"endTime":1687.8,"body":"Well, you do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1687.92,"endTime":1690.38,"body":"But that's, and then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1687.92,"endTime":1690.38,"body":"realized, like, how could I not,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1690.41,"endTime":1694.43,"body":"you know, like, because I'm the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1690.41,"endTime":1694.43,"body":"one who is gay, right? Like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1694.43,"endTime":1697.64,"body":"the one who's seeking and asking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1694.43,"endTime":1697.64,"body":"these questions. So like, I feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1697.64,"endTime":1704.06,"body":"like in a way, I'm entitled to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1697.64,"endTime":1704.06,"body":"revelation about myself, before"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1704.06,"endTime":1707.63,"body":"the rest of the church is, is."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1704.06,"endTime":1707.63,"body":"Is that, am I allowed to say"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1707.63,"endTime":1708.02,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1708.41,"endTime":1710.48,"body":"Well, I mean, we don't want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1708.41,"endTime":1710.48,"body":"to be like, ahead of the church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1710.48,"endTime":1711.14,"body":"or counseling the church."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1711.17,"endTime":1712.73,"body":"Well, that's not what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1711.17,"endTime":1712.73,"body":"I'm trying to do. But just like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1712.76,"endTime":1716.42,"body":"I think, I think I was just so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1712.76,"endTime":1716.42,"body":"in this, like, I have to receive"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1716.42,"endTime":1721.1,"body":"revelation from down the line,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1716.42,"endTime":1721.1,"body":"right? And then I get, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1721.1,"endTime":1722.72,"body":"I'm just saying, I got to the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1721.1,"endTime":1722.72,"body":"point where I'm like, I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1722.72,"endTime":1725.6,"body":"receive real life revelation for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1722.72,"endTime":1725.6,"body":"me, and I'm not gonna, like put"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1725.6,"endTime":1729.14,"body":"that on everyone else. Like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1725.6,"endTime":1729.14,"body":"not trying to, to be like, this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1729.14,"endTime":1732.41,"body":"is the great revelation for the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1729.14,"endTime":1732.41,"body":"gays. But I can be like, this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1732.41,"endTime":1735.23,"body":"the great revelation for me this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1732.41,"endTime":1735.23,"body":"year, because this is what I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1735.23,"endTime":1736.28,"body":"need to do right now."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1736.31,"endTime":1739.97,"body":"Well, well, that's a story"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1736.31,"endTime":1739.97,"body":"of like Cornelius in Acts, in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1739.97,"endTime":1742.28,"body":"Acts chapter 10, where he's like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1739.97,"endTime":1742.28,"body":"a Gentile who wants to join the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1742.28,"endTime":1745.58,"body":"church. And that chapter's, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1742.28,"endTime":1745.58,"body":"for some reason, like really,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1746.18,"endTime":1750.44,"body":"like tells what time it is a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1746.18,"endTime":1750.44,"body":"lot. And Cornelia saw an angel,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1750.44,"endTime":1752.75,"body":"like a day before Peter saw his"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1750.44,"endTime":1752.75,"body":"vision."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1752.84,"endTime":1754.07,"body":"Oh, that's beautiful."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1754.1,"endTime":1755.75,"body":"Because he was the one that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1754.1,"endTime":1755.75,"body":"was affected by it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1756.02,"endTime":1757.61,"body":"And the thing is,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1756.02,"endTime":1757.61,"body":"that's hard, though. And that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1757.61,"endTime":1759.68,"body":"was hard for me, because that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1757.61,"endTime":1759.68,"body":"comes with a lot more moral"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1759.68,"endTime":1760.58,"body":"responsibility."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1760.67,"endTime":1761.21,"body":"There you go."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1761.21,"endTime":1763.58,"body":"Because now, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1761.21,"endTime":1763.58,"body":"now I'm not living under the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1763.61,"endTime":1766.49,"body":"like a safe umbrella because I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1763.61,"endTime":1766.49,"body":"like, I could be deceived right"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1766.49,"endTime":1766.79,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1766.85,"endTime":1767.09,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1767.09,"endTime":1769.37,"body":"And then like, I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1767.09,"endTime":1769.37,"body":"that's why it's so difficult."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1769.37,"endTime":1771.62,"body":"And that's why was so hard for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1769.37,"endTime":1771.62,"body":"me because like, I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1771.62,"endTime":1776.03,"body":"be wrong if I'm stepping out"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1771.62,"endTime":1776.03,"body":"from this. And I also don't want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1776.06,"endTime":1778.94,"body":"to like, be like, Hey, everyone,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1776.06,"endTime":1778.94,"body":"like, you need to make this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1778.94,"endTime":1781.94,"body":"umbrella bigger. But I was like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1778.94,"endTime":1781.94,"body":"this is where I need to stand."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1781.94,"endTime":1782.54,"body":"Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1782.54,"endTime":1785.0,"body":"Yeah. And I love"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1782.54,"endTime":1785.0,"body":"that you bring up Cornelius'"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1785.0,"endTime":1787.19,"body":"story, because as you were"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1785.0,"endTime":1787.19,"body":"saying that I was like, well,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1787.46,"endTime":1791.57,"body":"there's actually scriptural"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1787.46,"endTime":1791.57,"body":"precedents for both, right for"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1791.57,"endTime":1795.89,"body":"somebody like receiving, like a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1791.57,"endTime":1795.89,"body":"revelation that was like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1795.92,"endTime":1800.15,"body":"contrary to like, typical"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1795.92,"endTime":1800.15,"body":"thought. And there's also like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1800.21,"endTime":1803.21,"body":"scriptural precedents for people"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1800.21,"endTime":1803.21,"body":"receiving revelations that were"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1803.72,"endTime":1809.99,"body":"wrong, you know, and so you"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1803.72,"endTime":1809.99,"body":"either could happen. Right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1810.32,"endTime":1814.25,"body":"I guess just like, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1810.32,"endTime":1814.25,"body":"trick is to engage with it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1814.46,"endTime":1818.33,"body":"Yeah. And the thing is,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1814.46,"endTime":1818.33,"body":"like with most choices, most"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1818.33,"endTime":1819.59,"body":"choices can be undone."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.01,"endTime":1822.23,"body":"Yeah. Oh, thank you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1820.01,"endTime":1822.23,"body":"Because I was gonna come back to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1822.23,"endTime":1825.23,"body":"that. Thanks. Because I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1822.23,"endTime":1825.23,"body":"that's something I had to learn"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1825.23,"endTime":1829.58,"body":"to that, like, Christ atoned for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1825.23,"endTime":1829.58,"body":"me. Like I because when I'm in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1829.58,"endTime":1832.16,"body":"this space, where like, I could"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1829.58,"endTime":1832.16,"body":"be totally screwing up and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1832.16,"endTime":1835.4,"body":"making decisions that are taking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1832.16,"endTime":1835.4,"body":"me down a wrong path. And then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.4,"endTime":1839.42,"body":"was like, like, God's got me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1835.4,"endTime":1839.42,"body":"you know, but like, if I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1839.42,"endTime":1841.73,"body":"trying to stay close to Christ,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1839.42,"endTime":1841.73,"body":"and I've really believed that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1841.73,"endTime":1845.9,"body":"repentance is real. I shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1841.73,"endTime":1845.9,"body":"be afraid to move around. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1845.9,"endTime":1847.28,"body":"like, make decisions."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1847.58,"endTime":1849.95,"body":"And make mistakes"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1847.58,"endTime":1849.95,"body":"even. Yeah, like, if you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1849.95,"endTime":1853.28,"body":"petrified of making a mistake,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1849.95,"endTime":1853.28,"body":"then you never have the courage"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1853.28,"endTime":1855.86,"body":"to do something that could be"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1853.28,"endTime":1855.86,"body":"really good. Right? Different"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1855.86,"endTime":1857.27,"body":"and helpful. Right? Does that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1855.86,"endTime":1857.27,"body":"make sense?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1857.27,"endTime":1859.76,"body":"And I think. Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1857.27,"endTime":1859.76,"body":"I think for me, I got to the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1859.76,"endTime":1862.16,"body":"point where I was like, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1859.76,"endTime":1862.16,"body":"difference is, I'm not going to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1862.16,"endTime":1866.72,"body":"be like, I'm going to go do this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1862.16,"endTime":1866.72,"body":"sin. It was like, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1866.72,"endTime":1869.75,"body":"this is good. So I'm gonna, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1866.72,"endTime":1869.75,"body":"I don't know, it's like, not a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1869.75,"endTime":1872.75,"body":"sin, just like an idea. Right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1869.75,"endTime":1872.75,"body":"Right. It's not, it's not like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1872.75,"endTime":1875.06,"body":"was like, I'm going to try to do"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1872.75,"endTime":1875.06,"body":"a bad thing on purpose, and then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1875.06,"endTime":1878.39,"body":"repent, because Jesus gots me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1875.06,"endTime":1878.39,"body":"right? Yeah, no, I yeah, it was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1878.39,"endTime":1881.54,"body":"more like, I feel like this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1878.39,"endTime":1881.54,"body":"good. And I'm gonna try it out."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1882.05,"endTime":1885.2,"body":"And if it is good, I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1882.05,"endTime":1885.2,"body":"like thank God and the Spirit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1885.2,"endTime":1887.42,"body":"for taking you there. But if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1885.2,"endTime":1887.42,"body":"it's not good, I'm going to say"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1887.42,"endTime":1890.33,"body":"Christ, I need you to pull me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1887.42,"endTime":1890.33,"body":"back or at least to a different"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1890.33,"endTime":1890.72,"body":"spot."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1891.98,"endTime":1892.73,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1893.47,"endTime":1896.59,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I think as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1893.47,"endTime":1896.59,"body":"long as we're sincerely trying"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1896.59,"endTime":1899.62,"body":"to do our best, like really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1896.59,"endTime":1899.62,"body":"sincerely, seeking out the will"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1899.62,"endTime":1903.25,"body":"of God and doing our very best,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1899.62,"endTime":1903.25,"body":"you know, as we stumble and fall"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1903.25,"endTime":1909.82,"body":"and tumble, I should have made"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1903.25,"endTime":1909.82,"body":"it all rhyme, but you know, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1909.82,"endTime":1912.28,"body":"think we're gonna be okay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1909.82,"endTime":1912.28,"body":"Because, you know, we're, we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1912.28,"endTime":1913.93,"body":"moving in the right direction."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1914.05,"endTime":1915.67,"body":"Right. There's a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1914.05,"endTime":1915.67,"body":"difference between somebody"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1915.67,"endTime":1919.33,"body":"like, trying to be rogue, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1915.67,"endTime":1919.33,"body":"I'm intentionally trying to,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1919.33,"endTime":1921.73,"body":"like, do something different"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1919.33,"endTime":1921.73,"body":"than I'm intentionally trying"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1921.73,"endTime":1925.51,"body":"to, because I can give myself"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1921.73,"endTime":1925.51,"body":"like scriptural permission to do"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1925.51,"endTime":1928.0,"body":"something like that. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1925.51,"endTime":1928.0,"body":"somebody who's just like, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1928.0,"endTime":1933.1,"body":"genuinely am yearning to put my"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1928.0,"endTime":1933.1,"body":"life into God's hands. That is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1933.1,"endTime":1938.17,"body":"what I am trying to do. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1933.1,"endTime":1938.17,"body":"not going to do it very well, a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1938.17,"endTime":1942.34,"body":"lot of the time. And but I like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1938.17,"endTime":1942.34,"body":"but I'm, I'm trying, I that's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1942.34,"endTime":1944.89,"body":"what I that's what I want."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":1942.34,"endTime":1944.89,"body":"That's where I want to be. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1944.95,"endTime":1946.99,"body":"Well, that reminds me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1944.95,"endTime":1946.99,"body":"of the fruits too. Because like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1946.99,"endTime":1949.9,"body":"I feel like those fruits can"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1946.99,"endTime":1949.9,"body":"come inside you. Like if those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1949.9,"endTime":1953.11,"body":"are your desires. That's how you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1949.9,"endTime":1953.11,"body":"tell if what you're looking for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1953.11,"endTime":1954.52,"body":"is is is good."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.55,"endTime":1958.21,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And I love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.55,"endTime":1958.21,"body":"the idea of fruits, because it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1958.21,"endTime":1961.54,"body":"like, Alma says, like, you'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1958.21,"endTime":1961.54,"body":"begin to notice these things."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1961.9,"endTime":1964.39,"body":"Right? And then he says, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1961.9,"endTime":1964.39,"body":"then a tree comes in, then the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.39,"endTime":1967.9,"body":"fruit comes on the tree. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.39,"endTime":1967.9,"body":"sometimes it's like takes a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1967.9,"endTime":1971.41,"body":"while for these things to kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1967.9,"endTime":1971.41,"body":"of like, manifest like, wait, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1971.41,"endTime":1975.37,"body":"this is this right? Am I, so the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1971.41,"endTime":1975.37,"body":"idea of it being like fruits is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1975.37,"endTime":1977.5,"body":"actually like, interesting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1975.37,"endTime":1977.5,"body":"because it's like, oh, those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1977.5,"endTime":1982.15,"body":"take a little bit of time, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1977.5,"endTime":1982.15,"body":"like, to just like, work through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.15,"endTime":1983.62,"body":"and figure out and so."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1984.04,"endTime":1986.71,"body":"I feel like sometimes"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1984.04,"endTime":1986.71,"body":"I've had to be wrong to be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1986.71,"endTime":1991.84,"body":"right. Like, I've had to, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1986.71,"endTime":1991.84,"body":"go down or like move to like a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1991.84,"endTime":1995.53,"body":"testimony place where I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1991.84,"endTime":1995.53,"body":"like, actually, this isn't it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1995.53,"endTime":1999.28,"body":"for me. And then I'm like, but"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1995.53,"endTime":1999.28,"body":"this is like it but it helps me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1999.28,"endTime":2001.56,"body":"like find something better what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1999.28,"endTime":2001.56,"body":"I'm looking for, you know."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2001.72,"endTime":2004.81,"body":"Yeah, I watched"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2001.72,"endTime":2004.81,"body":"this, like conversation happen"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2004.81,"endTime":2008.44,"body":"between, like a friend of mine"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2004.81,"endTime":2008.44,"body":"that used to teach seminary with"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2008.71,"endTime":2011.92,"body":"and one of our past students. We"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2008.71,"endTime":2011.92,"body":"both taught him at different"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2011.92,"endTime":2014.83,"body":"times. And for some reason, we"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2011.92,"endTime":2014.83,"body":"were on a place that we were"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2014.83,"endTime":2018.67,"body":"together, and just kind of like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2014.83,"endTime":2018.67,"body":"talking about the good old days,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2018.7,"endTime":2022.72,"body":"you know, and this kid said"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2018.7,"endTime":2022.72,"body":"something to the other teacher,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2022.72,"endTime":2026.47,"body":"and he just said, he's like, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2022.72,"endTime":2026.47,"body":"remember you taught me this, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2026.47,"endTime":2031.27,"body":"this and this in class, and he's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2026.47,"endTime":2031.27,"body":"like, I remember it. And I've"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2031.27,"endTime":2034.99,"body":"thought a lot about it. And I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2031.27,"endTime":2034.99,"body":"don't think it's right. And he"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2034.99,"endTime":2038.68,"body":"said back to him. He was like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2034.99,"endTime":2038.68,"body":"Oh, I think I taught you wrong,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2039.01,"endTime":2042.64,"body":"because I've like, kind of like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2039.01,"endTime":2042.64,"body":"kind of followed through and saw"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2042.64,"endTime":2046.27,"body":"the fruits of believing that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2042.64,"endTime":2046.27,"body":"particular truth. And I did not"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2046.27,"endTime":2050.68,"body":"like, they weren't they didn't"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2046.27,"endTime":2050.68,"body":"sound like Jesus to me, like the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2050.68,"endTime":2053.44,"body":"fruits that were coming from it"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2050.68,"endTime":2053.44,"body":"wrong. And I was like, I think I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2053.44,"endTime":2056.38,"body":"said that I was like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2053.44,"endTime":2056.38,"body":"freaking love this conversation"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2056.38,"endTime":2061.36,"body":"so much. I love that they're"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2056.38,"endTime":2061.36,"body":"both like one of them questions"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2061.36,"endTime":2065.5,"body":"his teacher and says, like, I've"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2061.36,"endTime":2065.5,"body":"like, planted that truth in me."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2065.5,"endTime":2068.74,"body":"And it's, I don't think it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2065.5,"endTime":2068.74,"body":"right. And for him to admit and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2068.74,"endTime":2073.39,"body":"say like, Oh, me too. And I and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2068.74,"endTime":2073.39,"body":"I'm, I think I taught you wrong."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2073.66,"endTime":2075.52,"body":"That's the opposite of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2073.66,"endTime":2075.52,"body":"stagnant. That's flow."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2075.55,"endTime":2075.91,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2075.91,"endTime":2077.62,"body":"And that's so humble,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2075.91,"endTime":2077.62,"body":"too."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2077.81,"endTime":2080.36,"body":"Right? But on both"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2077.81,"endTime":2080.36,"body":"ends, I was just like, this is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2080.39,"endTime":2085.28,"body":"awesome. This is, this is faith"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2080.39,"endTime":2085.28,"body":"right here. This is like, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2085.28,"endTime":2088.61,"body":"it's and it's Zion. And it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2085.28,"endTime":2088.61,"body":"faith community. And it's like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2088.61,"endTime":2092.99,"body":"this is like, I'm a really,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2088.61,"endTime":2092.99,"body":"really big proponent. This is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2092.99,"endTime":2095.84,"body":"second time I've said of like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2092.99,"endTime":2095.84,"body":"bringing this other people"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2095.84,"endTime":2100.37,"body":"together and talking about them."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2095.84,"endTime":2100.37,"body":"By myself. I mean, you No,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2100.37,"endTime":2103.13,"body":"everybody knows, like, inside,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2100.37,"endTime":2103.13,"body":"you're just a basket case,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2103.16,"endTime":2106.73,"body":"right? And like, what you ate"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2103.16,"endTime":2106.73,"body":"and a memory you had from when"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2106.73,"endTime":2109.85,"body":"you were 12. And like all of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2106.73,"endTime":2109.85,"body":"these things can like impact"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2109.85,"endTime":2113.12,"body":"your emotions and your thoughts"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2109.85,"endTime":2113.12,"body":"and your feelings like, so"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2113.15,"endTime":2117.53,"body":"radically, that it's so nice for"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2113.15,"endTime":2117.53,"body":"me to like, this is actually one"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2117.53,"endTime":2120.35,"body":"of the benefits I'd see in like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2117.53,"endTime":2120.35,"body":"were you talking about, like the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2120.35,"endTime":2122.87,"body":"revelation that comes through"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2120.35,"endTime":2122.87,"body":"lines, like, I'm just like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2122.87,"endTime":2128.24,"body":"so happy there are both because"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2122.87,"endTime":2128.24,"body":"I don't trust my own sometimes."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2128.27,"endTime":2131.87,"body":"And it's also nice to just have"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2128.27,"endTime":2131.87,"body":"something to like, bounce off"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2131.87,"endTime":2137.24,"body":"of, and compare like both to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2131.87,"endTime":2137.24,"body":"and, and other people within my"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2137.51,"endTime":2141.5,"body":"that I trust in love and just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2137.51,"endTime":2141.5,"body":"like. I you know, I'm genuinely"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2141.53,"endTime":2143.69,"body":"I'm not, especially when"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2141.53,"endTime":2143.69,"body":"someone's like, I'm not trying"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2143.69,"endTime":2149.12,"body":"to fix anybody or I just let's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2143.69,"endTime":2149.12,"body":"just talk about this. I think"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2149.12,"endTime":2154.1,"body":"the spirit flows in situations"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2149.12,"endTime":2154.1,"body":"like that, even in fact, the one"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2154.1,"endTime":2158.63,"body":"that you talked about, with"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2154.1,"endTime":2158.63,"body":"Cornelius, there is a line soon"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2158.63,"endTime":2162.65,"body":"after that, where Peter and the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2158.63,"endTime":2162.65,"body":"other apostles make a major,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2163.04,"endTime":2167.18,"body":"where they make their major,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2163.04,"endTime":2167.18,"body":"like, policy decision change."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2167.72,"endTime":2170.87,"body":"Like it's one of the biggest in"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2167.72,"endTime":2170.87,"body":"the book of Acts. And like three"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2170.87,"endTime":2175.79,"body":"times in that chapter, Peter"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2170.87,"endTime":2175.79,"body":"says, it seemed good to us and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2175.79,"endTime":2179.84,"body":"the Holy Ghost to make this"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2175.79,"endTime":2179.84,"body":"decision. Cool. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2180.05,"endTime":2186.65,"body":"you what, you just made a major"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2180.05,"endTime":2186.65,"body":"policy change by saying it"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2186.65,"endTime":2191.21,"body":"seemed good. But it's cool that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2186.65,"endTime":2191.21,"body":"he was just like, we did it"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2191.21,"endTime":2195.83,"body":"because it seemed good to all of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2191.21,"endTime":2195.83,"body":"us. And the Holy Ghost. Like we"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2195.86,"endTime":2198.71,"body":"like that's, and that's why we"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2195.86,"endTime":2198.71,"body":"did it. That's why we're doing"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2198.71,"endTime":2198.86,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2198.93,"endTime":2202.68,"body":"Yeah. I love that. So we've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2198.93,"endTime":2202.68,"body":"been talking about people trying"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2202.71,"endTime":2205.29,"body":"like with the best of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2202.71,"endTime":2205.29,"body":"intentions. And you know, it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2205.29,"endTime":2207.48,"body":"says in the scriptures that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2205.29,"endTime":2207.48,"body":"Satan actually is trying to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2207.48,"endTime":2210.54,"body":"deceive us. Right. It says a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2207.48,"endTime":2210.54,"body":"couple of ways that like Nephi"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2210.54,"endTime":2212.37,"body":"talks about a couple ways that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2210.54,"endTime":2212.37,"body":"he tries to do that. And one is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2212.37,"endTime":2215.85,"body":"by saying that there is no"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2212.37,"endTime":2215.85,"body":"devil, and there is no sin, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2215.85,"endTime":2218.79,"body":"you just eat, drink and be merry"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2215.85,"endTime":2218.79,"body":"for tomorrow we die. And I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2218.79,"endTime":2220.92,"body":"really like this one where he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2218.79,"endTime":2220.92,"body":"says this is in 2 Nephi 28"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2220.92,"endTime":2224.04,"body":"again, he says and others will"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2220.92,"endTime":2224.04,"body":"he pacify and lull them away"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2224.04,"endTime":2227.07,"body":"into carnal security that they"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2224.04,"endTime":2227.07,"body":"will say all as well in Zion."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2227.1,"endTime":2230.88,"body":"Yeah Zion prosperous, all as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2227.1,"endTime":2230.88,"body":"well. And thus the devil cheated"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2230.88,"endTime":2234.03,"body":"their souls and leadeth them"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2230.88,"endTime":2234.03,"body":"away carefully down to hell. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2234.03,"endTime":2238.35,"body":"a couple verses down in verse"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2234.03,"endTime":2238.35,"body":"24, therefore woe be unto him"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2238.35,"endTime":2241.65,"body":"that is at ease in Zion. Wo be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2238.35,"endTime":2241.65,"body":"unto him that cry at all as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2241.65,"endTime":2244.65,"body":"well. The a will be unto him to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2241.65,"endTime":2244.65,"body":"Harken under the precepts of men"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2244.65,"endTime":2248.16,"body":"and denying the power of God and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2244.65,"endTime":2248.16,"body":"the gift of the Holy Ghost. And,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2248.19,"endTime":2251.1,"body":"you know, I think that's one of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2248.19,"endTime":2251.1,"body":"the one of the chief ways that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2251.1,"endTime":2253.83,"body":"feel like I was deceived in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2251.1,"endTime":2253.83,"body":"past. And maybe now like, I just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2253.83,"endTime":2257.19,"body":"thought, everything's fine. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2253.83,"endTime":2257.19,"body":"I don't need to do anything to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2257.19,"endTime":2261.75,"body":"make things better. And I have"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2257.19,"endTime":2261.75,"body":"felt so much more like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2261.75,"endTime":2264.78,"body":"enlivened, and lead, as I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2261.75,"endTime":2264.78,"body":"like, noticed things that don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2264.78,"endTime":2269.94,"body":"feel good to me, and then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2264.78,"endTime":2269.94,"body":"working to to build Zion in my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2269.94,"endTime":2271.68,"body":"sphere of influence in my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2269.94,"endTime":2271.68,"body":"stewardship."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2272.35,"endTime":2274.66,"body":"Yeah, that those,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2272.35,"endTime":2274.66,"body":"like what Charlie was talking"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2274.66,"endTime":2279.94,"body":"about earlier, the idea of God's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2274.66,"endTime":2279.94,"body":"got you, and how there is hazard"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2280.48,"endTime":2284.41,"body":"in that side of the spectrum."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2280.48,"endTime":2284.41,"body":"And there's also the hazard on"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2284.41,"endTime":2286.66,"body":"the other side, too, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2284.41,"endTime":2286.66,"body":"does that make sense? Like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2286.66,"endTime":2289.75,"body":"there's just like, you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2286.66,"endTime":2289.75,"body":"have a gutter on both sides of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2289.75,"endTime":2293.32,"body":"the street. And it's like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2289.75,"endTime":2293.32,"body":"that's actually why I love I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2293.32,"endTime":2296.05,"body":"teach a world religions class,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2293.32,"endTime":2296.05,"body":"so and I just love all the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2296.08,"endTime":2299.47,"body":"religions of the world. But that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2296.08,"endTime":2299.47,"body":"whole idea of the Buddha"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2299.47,"endTime":2302.98,"body":"teaching about the Eightfold"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2299.47,"endTime":2302.98,"body":"middle path, the whole like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2303.01,"endTime":2307.12,"body":"idea and concept behind it is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2303.01,"endTime":2307.12,"body":"like, in the middle, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2307.15,"endTime":2311.77,"body":"like, extremes are hazardous and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2307.15,"endTime":2311.77,"body":"dangerous. You want to try and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2311.77,"endTime":2315.31,"body":"find that place. But I think"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2311.77,"endTime":2315.31,"body":"believing both those things at"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2315.31,"endTime":2318.34,"body":"the same time, is to say, like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2315.31,"endTime":2318.34,"body":"I could be wrong, and I could be"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2318.34,"endTime":2321.76,"body":"deceived. God has me at the same"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2318.34,"endTime":2321.76,"body":"time, everything's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2321.76,"endTime":2325.81,"body":"okay. Like, they kind of just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2321.76,"endTime":2325.81,"body":"provide this good playground."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2325.87,"endTime":2326.29,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2327.1,"endTime":2331.69,"body":"Like, sets a boundary,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2327.1,"endTime":2331.69,"body":"right? Like the resistance pulls"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2331.69,"endTime":2333.79,"body":"you together, instead of pushing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2331.69,"endTime":2333.79,"body":"you apart."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2333.82,"endTime":2338.35,"body":"Right? Right. There"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2333.82,"endTime":2338.35,"body":"has to be tension. Like, it"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2338.35,"endTime":2342.13,"body":"really is, like this really"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2338.35,"endTime":2342.13,"body":"sweet place to have tension."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2342.25,"endTime":2346.42,"body":"It's just like, Oh, this is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2342.25,"endTime":2346.42,"body":"where, like it all the good"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2346.45,"endTime":2347.05,"body":"stuff happens."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2347.05,"endTime":2349.84,"body":"I think tension is how"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2347.05,"endTime":2349.84,"body":"you get revelation like, cuz"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2349.87,"endTime":2352.66,"body":"because you're not praying for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2349.87,"endTime":2352.66,"body":"answers unless you're feeling"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2352.66,"endTime":2356.17,"body":"some doubt. Right? Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2352.66,"endTime":2356.17,"body":"Yeah. Like, like Joseph Smith"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2356.17,"endTime":2359.68,"body":"wasn't praying for an answer."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2356.17,"endTime":2359.68,"body":"Because everything was awesome."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2359.92,"endTime":2363.25,"body":"Like there was extreme tension."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2359.92,"endTime":2363.25,"body":"And when I think about myself,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2363.28,"endTime":2366.31,"body":"and like, coming out and trying"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2363.28,"endTime":2366.31,"body":"to figure out who I am, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2366.31,"endTime":2370.63,"body":"like, where I fit in the plan of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2366.31,"endTime":2370.63,"body":"salvation. It's like, I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2370.63,"endTime":2373.12,"body":"looking for answers. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2370.63,"endTime":2373.12,"body":"gaining personal revelation,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2373.12,"endTime":2376.0,"body":"because there was tension there."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2373.12,"endTime":2376.0,"body":"And if it wasn't there, then I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2376.0,"endTime":2379.81,"body":"would know exactly how much I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2376.0,"endTime":2379.81,"body":"knew before I started this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2379.81,"endTime":2380.44,"body":"process."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2380.83,"endTime":2383.05,"body":"What I'm here to say is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2380.83,"endTime":2383.05,"body":"like this question, like, Am I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2383.05,"endTime":2384.82,"body":"deceived? Like, not a bad"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2383.05,"endTime":2384.82,"body":"question?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2384.85,"endTime":2386.26,"body":"It's like a cool"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2384.85,"endTime":2386.26,"body":"question. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2386.29,"endTime":2387.88,"body":"It's like, it's like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2386.29,"endTime":2387.88,"body":"checking in with ourselves to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2387.88,"endTime":2389.71,"body":"make sure that we're that we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2387.88,"endTime":2389.71,"body":"on the right path."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2389.84,"endTime":2392.24,"body":"Well, and even"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2389.84,"endTime":2392.24,"body":"Joseph's particular question,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2392.27,"endTime":2396.14,"body":"like we miss tell this story so"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2392.27,"endTime":2396.14,"body":"often. And I'm like, can we let"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2396.14,"endTime":2398.84,"body":"that narrative go because it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2396.14,"endTime":2398.84,"body":"not nearly as good as the real"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2398.84,"endTime":2402.38,"body":"narrative where he's like, which"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2398.84,"endTime":2402.38,"body":"church is true? And is like that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2402.38,"endTime":2406.25,"body":"is that's that is so secondary"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2402.38,"endTime":2406.25,"body":"to what he was doing, which is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2406.25,"endTime":2410.39,"body":"like, he's like, I was concerned"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2406.25,"endTime":2410.39,"body":"about my soul. And that is such"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2410.39,"endTime":2413.54,"body":"a better narrative. We had this"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2410.39,"endTime":2413.54,"body":"boy, he was just like, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2413.54,"endTime":2418.43,"body":"actually am genuinely concerned"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2413.54,"endTime":2418.43,"body":"about my soul. Like, and, and I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2418.43,"endTime":2424.64,"body":"want a healthy, living, vibrant"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2418.43,"endTime":2424.64,"body":"soul. And like, and I need"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2424.64,"endTime":2428.39,"body":"truth, I need something to help,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2424.64,"endTime":2428.39,"body":"you know, like, it's not right"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2428.39,"endTime":2431.33,"body":"now. It's troubled that it's,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2428.39,"endTime":2431.33,"body":"you know, and so I really,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2431.33,"endTime":2433.82,"body":"really love that idea of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2431.33,"endTime":2433.82,"body":"somebody just like, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2433.82,"endTime":2436.01,"body":"that's just another way of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2433.82,"endTime":2436.01,"body":"saying, like, I'm genuinely"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2436.01,"endTime":2440.12,"body":"trying, you know, it's just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2436.01,"endTime":2440.12,"body":"like, here's some genuinely want"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2440.12,"endTime":2446.0,"body":"to experience life. You know,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2440.12,"endTime":2446.0,"body":"and like, what I mean by that,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2446.03,"endTime":2448.76,"body":"right now, I have this like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2446.03,"endTime":2448.76,"body":"working definition of eternal"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2448.76,"endTime":2452.09,"body":"life. I want to get rid of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2448.76,"endTime":2452.09,"body":"eternal life as an end"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2452.09,"endTime":2456.11,"body":"destination, and start talking"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2452.09,"endTime":2456.11,"body":"about it more the way the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2456.11,"endTime":2459.86,"body":"scriptures talk about it as like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2456.11,"endTime":2459.86,"body":"something we experience right"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2459.86,"endTime":2465.11,"body":"now. Like I am experiencing"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2459.86,"endTime":2465.11,"body":"eternal life, like I'm more"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2465.11,"endTime":2469.19,"body":"alive to God. And I'm more alive"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2465.11,"endTime":2469.19,"body":"to other people. Like if I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2469.19,"endTime":2471.47,"body":"feeling that and experiencing"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2469.19,"endTime":2471.47,"body":"it. I'm like, whatever's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2471.47,"endTime":2475.67,"body":"happening to make that happen."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2471.47,"endTime":2475.67,"body":"That is what I want to have more"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2475.67,"endTime":2476.0,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2477.44,"endTime":2481.13,"body":"That's cool. So I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2477.44,"endTime":2481.13,"body":"talking about when I was worried"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2481.13,"endTime":2484.25,"body":"about being deceived, and had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2481.13,"endTime":2484.25,"body":"that conversation with Ben, when"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2484.25,"endTime":2490.01,"body":"we were parked when we were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2484.25,"endTime":2490.01,"body":"parked outside outside of King"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2490.01,"endTime":2494.63,"body":"Henry apartments. So they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2490.01,"endTime":2494.63,"body":"very Provo. That was kind of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2494.63,"endTime":2501.17,"body":"like the era where I started,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2494.63,"endTime":2501.17,"body":"like, stopped feeling defective"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2501.2,"endTime":2506.96,"body":"and started feeling whole that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2501.2,"endTime":2506.96,"body":"like I was, like, supported and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2506.96,"endTime":2509.48,"body":"whole as a child of God as I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2506.96,"endTime":2509.48,"body":"was. And then there was nothing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2509.48,"endTime":2513.8,"body":"to change. And I ended up"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2509.48,"endTime":2513.8,"body":"meeting with one of the the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2513.8,"endTime":2517.7,"body":"administrators on campus and was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2513.8,"endTime":2517.7,"body":"was talking to her and told her"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2517.7,"endTime":2521.12,"body":"like bore testimony and like it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2517.7,"endTime":2521.12,"body":"really clicked and like both of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2521.12,"endTime":2524.12,"body":"us cried, it was so powerful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2521.12,"endTime":2524.12,"body":"when I was like, Look, the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2524.12,"endTime":2527.24,"body":"messages I get, tell me that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2524.12,"endTime":2527.24,"body":"there's something wrong with me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2527.24,"endTime":2531.41,"body":"that I need to change. But God"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2527.24,"endTime":2531.41,"body":"is telling me that I'm whole."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2532.1,"endTime":2535.97,"body":"And it was just this powerful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2532.1,"endTime":2535.97,"body":"moment. And then I graduated, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2535.97,"endTime":2540.5,"body":"moved, it had been like a year"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2535.97,"endTime":2540.5,"body":"and didn't like, never really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2540.5,"endTime":2543.5,"body":"thought about that conversation."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2540.5,"endTime":2543.5,"body":"And one day, she sent me an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2543.5,"endTime":2547.88,"body":"email out of the blue. And if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2543.5,"endTime":2547.88,"body":"it's okay, I'd like to read"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2547.88,"endTime":2553.01,"body":"exactly what she wrote to me,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2547.88,"endTime":2553.01,"body":"because it like, sunk into me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2553.01,"endTime":2556.13,"body":"and grounded me and I go back to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2553.01,"endTime":2556.13,"body":"this all the time, every time"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2556.13,"endTime":2559.67,"body":"I'm worried about like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2556.13,"endTime":2559.67,"body":"direction I'm going. So towards"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2559.67,"endTime":2563.63,"body":"the end of the email, she said,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2559.67,"endTime":2563.63,"body":"\"I know I don't know how it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2563.63,"endTime":2567.05,"body":"feels. And I can't appreciate"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2563.63,"endTime":2567.05,"body":"what it's like to have a core"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2567.05,"endTime":2570.68,"body":"element of my identity devalued"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2567.05,"endTime":2570.68,"body":"or even made to seem shameful."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2571.37,"endTime":2574.85,"body":"What I do know is that personal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2571.37,"endTime":2574.85,"body":"revelation is real. And you have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2574.85,"endTime":2577.43,"body":"received assurances that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2574.85,"endTime":2577.43,"body":"supersede every message to the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2577.43,"endTime":2581.12,"body":"contrary, please hold on to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2577.43,"endTime":2581.12,"body":"that, come back to it over and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2581.12,"endTime":2584.87,"body":"over again. You are just as an"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2581.12,"endTime":2584.87,"body":"all knowing, completely loving"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2584.87,"endTime":2588.44,"body":"father made you, you know it, he"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2584.87,"endTime":2588.44,"body":"knows it. All those who have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2588.44,"endTime":2590.9,"body":"been touched by your life,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2588.44,"endTime":2590.9,"body":"compassion and friendship, know"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2590.9,"endTime":2594.56,"body":"it too please do whatever you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2590.9,"endTime":2594.56,"body":"need to do to keep the memory of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2594.56,"endTime":2598.07,"body":"your peaceful, sweet assurance"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2594.56,"endTime":2598.07,"body":"alive and active for those times"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2598.07,"endTime":2601.22,"body":"when you are tired and feel"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2598.07,"endTime":2601.22,"body":"despair. You can rely on that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2601.37,"endTime":2603.26,"body":"And as you recall your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2601.37,"endTime":2603.26,"body":"experience, it will help you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2603.26,"endTime":2605.99,"body":"offer grace to those who say"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2603.26,"endTime":2605.99,"body":"otherwise.\""},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2606.77,"endTime":2607.76,"body":"Can I kind of build on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2606.77,"endTime":2607.76,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2607.79,"endTime":2608.42,"body":"Yeah, please."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2608.78,"endTime":2610.4,"body":"So I recently gave a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2608.78,"endTime":2610.4,"body":"fireside."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2610.4,"endTime":2613.64,"body":"Build a castle on it. A"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2610.4,"endTime":2613.64,"body":"temple."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2615.41,"endTime":2619.55,"body":"I recently gave a fireside"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2615.41,"endTime":2619.55,"body":"for youth in a ward in my stake."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2619.76,"endTime":2622.58,"body":"And during the q\u0026a, someone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2619.76,"endTime":2622.58,"body":"asked, you know what we can do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2622.58,"endTime":2624.56,"body":"to help someone who wants to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2622.58,"endTime":2624.56,"body":"stay in the church and keep"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2624.56,"endTime":2626.51,"body":"their covenants but is likely"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2624.56,"endTime":2626.51,"body":"going to stay single? Like how"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2626.51,"endTime":2629.51,"body":"do we help them in a church"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2626.51,"endTime":2629.51,"body":"that's focuses so much on the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2629.51,"endTime":2631.52,"body":"family. And so I talked about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2629.51,"endTime":2631.52,"body":"all my friends, Kevin and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2631.52,"endTime":2633.5,"body":"Allison, and how they've made me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2631.52,"endTime":2633.5,"body":"part of their family. I told a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2633.5,"endTime":2636.35,"body":"number of stories and and then I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2633.5,"endTime":2636.35,"body":"kind of circled back I said, so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2636.35,"endTime":2638.9,"body":"to answer this question like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2636.35,"endTime":2638.9,"body":"how do we like what do we do if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2638.9,"endTime":2641.39,"body":"someone wants to stay in the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2638.9,"endTime":2641.39,"body":"church but but is a single? And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2641.39,"endTime":2643.37,"body":"I said, what you do is you make"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2641.39,"endTime":2643.37,"body":"them part of your family?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2644.03,"endTime":2646.85,"body":"Because we're all meant to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2644.03,"endTime":2646.85,"body":"family. And then when I said"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2646.85,"endTime":2648.86,"body":"that, you could just like feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2646.85,"endTime":2648.86,"body":"the spirit in the room. And then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2648.86,"endTime":2652.28,"body":"the Bishop piped in, and he"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2648.86,"endTime":2652.28,"body":"said, \"Are you all feeling that?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2652.52,"endTime":2655.16,"body":"Ben just said something true"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2652.52,"endTime":2655.16,"body":"when the Holy Ghost is telling"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2655.16,"endTime":2657.32,"body":"you that it's true.\" I thought"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2655.16,"endTime":2657.32,"body":"that was a really powerful"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2657.32,"endTime":2659.6,"body":"teaching moment. But from from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2657.32,"endTime":2659.6,"body":"the bishop to say, like, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2659.75,"endTime":2661.58,"body":"Are you experiencing what's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2659.75,"endTime":2661.58,"body":"happening right now make sure"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2661.58,"endTime":2665.78,"body":"you're noticing this. And, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2661.58,"endTime":2665.78,"body":"know, I've, as I, as I've aged"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2665.78,"endTime":2668.15,"body":"and gotten older and had more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2665.78,"endTime":2668.15,"body":"experiences, I've started, I've"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2668.15,"endTime":2671.63,"body":"noticed those moments more and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2668.15,"endTime":2671.63,"body":"more. Yeah, I just feel that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2671.63,"endTime":2674.51,"body":"can get guidance and receive"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2671.63,"endTime":2674.51,"body":"truth."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2674.0,"endTime":2676.43,"body":"Yeah. And I feel like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2674.0,"endTime":2676.43,"body":"both of these stories go back to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2676.43,"endTime":2679.31,"body":"what you were saying about the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2676.43,"endTime":2679.31,"body":"community aspect of this."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2679.73,"endTime":2683.03,"body":"Because when I started coming"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2679.73,"endTime":2683.03,"body":"out and even started having"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2683.03,"endTime":2685.67,"body":"these conversations,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2683.03,"endTime":2685.67,"body":"immediately, I was hearing from"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2685.67,"endTime":2688.13,"body":"other voices. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2685.67,"endTime":2688.13,"body":"was scary for me because I was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2688.13,"endTime":2690.98,"body":"like, What if these other people"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2688.13,"endTime":2690.98,"body":"are giving me things that aren't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2690.98,"endTime":2694.94,"body":"true? But then I mean, we've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2690.98,"endTime":2694.94,"body":"talked about how to discern"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2694.94,"endTime":2698.72,"body":"that. But then this lady that I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2694.94,"endTime":2698.72,"body":"met with one time sent me this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2698.72,"endTime":2702.17,"body":"email that like was my rock. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2698.72,"endTime":2702.17,"body":"it got me through the two"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2702.17,"endTime":2703.88,"body":"hardest years of my entire life."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2704.72,"endTime":2707.12,"body":"And, you know, I think we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2704.72,"endTime":2707.12,"body":"should Well, I know I've been"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2707.12,"endTime":2710.24,"body":"wary of people who have like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2707.12,"endTime":2710.24,"body":"told me things about myself, or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2710.24,"endTime":2714.44,"body":"like have told me what to do or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2710.24,"endTime":2714.44,"body":"like, explained me to me, I,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2714.56,"endTime":2716.9,"body":"people that have been more"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2714.56,"endTime":2716.9,"body":"helpful or people who like, let"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2716.9,"endTime":2719.99,"body":"me talk and explore me with them"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2716.9,"endTime":2719.99,"body":"instead of trying to tell me"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2719.99,"endTime":2720.62,"body":"about me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2720.65,"endTime":2723.08,"body":"Yeah. And I think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2720.65,"endTime":2723.08,"body":"that's what she was doing here."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2723.08,"endTime":2726.71,"body":"She's like, Hey, we had this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2723.08,"endTime":2726.71,"body":"moment of exploration. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2726.71,"endTime":2730.64,"body":"here's what happened, you know?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2726.71,"endTime":2730.64,"body":"And it was cool."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2731.32,"endTime":2734.53,"body":"Yeah me, I have"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2731.32,"endTime":2734.53,"body":"used this line several times,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2734.53,"endTime":2738.55,"body":"it's just in my like, just my"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2734.53,"endTime":2738.55,"body":"little cards, all my cards. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2738.55,"endTime":2740.89,"body":"this is one I have to play"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2738.55,"endTime":2740.89,"body":"sometimes, just to say to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2740.89,"endTime":2746.65,"body":"people, like I happen to be the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2740.89,"endTime":2746.65,"body":"world's foremost expert on me."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2747.1,"endTime":2752.41,"body":"So let me tell you how I feel"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2747.1,"endTime":2752.41,"body":"and how I think and what I yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2752.41,"endTime":2755.95,"body":"that was well said. And Ben I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2752.41,"endTime":2755.95,"body":"just wanted to this is not the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2755.95,"endTime":2759.67,"body":"topic of this, but I want to put"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2755.95,"endTime":2759.67,"body":"an exclamation point on a text"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2760.03,"endTime":2761.62,"body":"on what you said about..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2761.65,"endTime":2769.15,"body":"An emoji. You know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2761.65,"endTime":2769.15,"body":"like, when you like, click, and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2769.15,"endTime":2775.33,"body":"hold? As long as you don't have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2769.15,"endTime":2775.33,"body":"an Android because then it'll"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2775.33,"endTime":2777.07,"body":"get texted over and over again."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2779.31,"endTime":2783.57,"body":"People who have an"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2779.31,"endTime":2783.57,"body":"Android can not do this. Like, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2783.57,"endTime":2787.59,"body":"have been thinking so much like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2783.57,"endTime":2787.59,"body":"I think my dominant Thought and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2787.59,"endTime":2791.34,"body":"Feeling over the past like two,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2787.59,"endTime":2791.34,"body":"three years has been about that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2791.34,"endTime":2797.61,"body":"concept of us all, as a family."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2791.34,"endTime":2797.61,"body":"Like somewhere that was always"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2797.64,"endTime":2800.85,"body":"the that was that seems"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2797.64,"endTime":2800.85,"body":"scripturally to always be the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2800.85,"endTime":2805.14,"body":"idea. It's just like, it's all"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2800.85,"endTime":2805.14,"body":"of us. We are all the human"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2805.14,"endTime":2808.23,"body":"family. Together, somewhere"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2805.14,"endTime":2808.23,"body":"along the way, someone wrote,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2808.23,"endTime":2811.35,"body":"families can be together"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2808.23,"endTime":2811.35,"body":"forever, and God bless them. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2811.35,"endTime":2814.11,"body":"all of a sudden, our focus"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2811.35,"endTime":2814.11,"body":"started to be on this just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2814.14,"endTime":2817.77,"body":"single nuclear, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2814.14,"endTime":2817.77,"body":"family, like one line of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2817.77,"endTime":2823.56,"body":"lineage, right? We have"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2817.77,"endTime":2823.56,"body":"forgotten the concept of the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2823.56,"endTime":2827.97,"body":"whole human family. Like we were"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2823.56,"endTime":2827.97,"body":"not a bunch of individual"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2827.97,"endTime":2833.01,"body":"families like Zion, the whole"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2827.97,"endTime":2833.01,"body":"Zion, which is the concept"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2833.01,"endTime":2837.54,"body":"Joseph was obsessed with is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2833.01,"endTime":2837.54,"body":"like, all of us, all of us,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2837.57,"endTime":2843.27,"body":"like, every single one of us all"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2837.57,"endTime":2843.27,"body":"together, you know, and I feel"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2843.27,"endTime":2848.4,"body":"like that sort of family talk"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2843.27,"endTime":2848.4,"body":"could be really, really healthy"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2848.43,"endTime":2851.91,"body":"and helpful for people to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2848.43,"endTime":2851.91,"body":"realize, like, wait, the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2851.91,"endTime":2855.39,"body":"ancients saw, I said that phrase"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2851.91,"endTime":2855.39,"body":"twice. I just realized the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2855.39,"endTime":2858.6,"body":"angels. The first time I said, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2855.39,"endTime":2858.6,"body":"sounded like I was a BYU guy or"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2858.6,"endTime":2866.16,"body":"something like a professor or"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2858.6,"endTime":2866.16,"body":"something that. I'm not that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2866.16,"endTime":2871.77,"body":"fancy. The old people who used"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2866.16,"endTime":2871.77,"body":"to be in the scriptures they"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2872.88,"endTime":2877.11,"body":"like, if you look like the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2872.88,"endTime":2877.11,"body":"promises to covenant Israel,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2877.59,"endTime":2882.15,"body":"particularly like the salvation"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2877.59,"endTime":2882.15,"body":"ones are about being saved as"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2882.18,"endTime":2886.71,"body":"the whole. Like, we've become so"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2882.18,"endTime":2886.71,"body":"individualistic, that it's just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2886.71,"endTime":2891.09,"body":"like, I think we missed some of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2886.71,"endTime":2891.09,"body":"the power of ... anyways,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2891.09,"endTime":2894.54,"body":"Oh that feels good."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2891.09,"endTime":2894.54,"body":"Yeah. I like that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2894.57,"endTime":2896.97,"body":"That's good to me, too."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2894.57,"endTime":2896.97,"body":"Let's plant that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2896.0,"endTime":2899.54,"body":"Let's plant that. We're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2896.0,"endTime":2899.54,"body":"planting it now. Plant it in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2899.54,"endTime":2901.94,"body":"your hearts, everyone. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2899.54,"endTime":2901.94,"body":"Well, and and when you think"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2901.94,"endTime":2903.59,"body":"about, like, even the last"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2901.94,"endTime":2903.59,"body":"General Conference, they were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2903.59,"endTime":2906.44,"body":"talking about how the majority"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2903.59,"endTime":2906.44,"body":"of adults in the church are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2906.44,"endTime":2909.38,"body":"single, that are unmarried. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2906.44,"endTime":2909.38,"body":"then there's the whole question"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2909.38,"endTime":2911.51,"body":"of like, what do we do with the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2909.38,"endTime":2911.51,"body":"gays like, what do we do with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2911.51,"endTime":2914.15,"body":"anyone? They're a part of the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2911.51,"endTime":2914.15,"body":"family or what have you. But if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2914.15,"endTime":2918.2,"body":"your parents get divorced, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2914.15,"endTime":2918.2,"body":"where's the sealing? Like, let's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2918.2,"endTime":2920.12,"body":"all go together."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2920.21,"endTime":2922.34,"body":"Right? Stop"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2920.21,"endTime":2922.34,"body":"worrying about like this."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2922.61,"endTime":2924.92,"body":"Like, like, someone's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2922.61,"endTime":2924.92,"body":"gonna fall off the chain and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2924.92,"endTime":2927.44,"body":"break the chain, right? Like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2924.92,"endTime":2927.44,"body":"nah, because we're a junior link"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2927.44,"endTime":2931.85,"body":"fence. All right, we're a mesh"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2927.44,"endTime":2931.85,"body":"chain. We're not like a line."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2932.39,"endTime":2935.69,"body":"Ooh, that's cool, right? Are you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2932.39,"endTime":2935.69,"body":"saying you want to be sealed to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2935.69,"endTime":2935.96,"body":"me?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2936.23,"endTime":2941.42,"body":"Yes, we are. All of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2936.23,"endTime":2941.42,"body":"us are. Right, I really think I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2941.42,"endTime":2946.13,"body":"believe this concept, right,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2941.42,"endTime":2946.13,"body":"wholeheartedly. We either all go"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2946.13,"endTime":2950.81,"body":"back together, or none of us go"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2946.13,"endTime":2950.81,"body":"at all. Like, wholeheartedly?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2951.08,"endTime":2952.22,"body":"Yeah, yes."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2952.25,"endTime":2953.33,"body":"Tell me how you came to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2952.25,"endTime":2953.33,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2953.54,"endTime":2954.17,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2954.2,"endTime":2957.86,"body":"Because I think that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2954.2,"endTime":2957.86,"body":"like, even feels like foreign to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2957.86,"endTime":2962.0,"body":"me. And I feel like I believe"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2957.86,"endTime":2962.0,"body":"some pretty foreign things."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2962.03,"endTime":2965.18,"body":"I just feel like to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2962.03,"endTime":2965.18,"body":"me if you want to define what,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2965.45,"endTime":2969.98,"body":"what salvation looks like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2965.45,"endTime":2969.98,"body":"nothing less than the whole"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2969.98,"endTime":2974.72,"body":"human family together is is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2969.98,"endTime":2974.72,"body":"going to be fitting, it's not"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2974.72,"endTime":2978.59,"body":"going to be enough. Like it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2974.72,"endTime":2978.59,"body":"got to be every person and I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2978.59,"endTime":2981.65,"body":"don't mean like all the families"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2978.59,"endTime":2981.65,"body":"and then that's also bring in"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2981.65,"endTime":2986.12,"body":"the roads like but just like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2981.65,"endTime":2986.12,"body":"just like we all met are in it."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2986.18,"endTime":2990.68,"body":"Yeah, we're all every kind every"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2986.18,"endTime":2990.68,"body":"every like, situation every"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2990.68,"endTime":2995.9,"body":"like, that's so beautiful. That"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2990.68,"endTime":2995.9,"body":"is so like, I've just been"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2995.9,"endTime":2998.9,"body":"thinking about this concept"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2995.9,"endTime":2998.9,"body":"which might be like I don't"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2998.9,"endTime":3001.39,"body":"know, this might be a detour."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":2998.9,"endTime":3001.39,"body":"Little but not far."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3001.6,"endTime":3007.12,"body":"Let's keep going. I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3001.6,"endTime":3007.12,"body":"loving this,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3006.48,"endTime":3009.3,"body":"But obviously like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3006.48,"endTime":3009.3,"body":"right now, we've spent a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3009.3,"endTime":3013.11,"body":"time away from our, like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3009.3,"endTime":3013.11,"body":"organized faith communities, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3009.52,"endTime":3012.97,"body":"Because Are you being"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3009.52,"endTime":3012.97,"body":"deceived?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3013.11,"endTime":3017.94,"body":"know? Yeah. And that's actually"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3013.11,"endTime":3017.94,"body":"been so nice. And there's been"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3014.83,"endTime":3024.43,"body":"Yeah. Right."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3014.83,"endTime":3024.43,"body":"Because you really because,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3017.94,"endTime":3022.11,"body":"so much benefit to that for me"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3017.94,"endTime":3022.11,"body":"and I just have really liked it."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3022.11,"endTime":3026.22,"body":"And because because organized"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3022.11,"endTime":3026.22,"body":"faith communities are clunky,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3024.43,"endTime":3042.37,"body":"right, because like, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3024.43,"endTime":3042.37,"body":"oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3026.28,"endTime":3029.52,"body":"you know, and so it's like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3026.28,"endTime":3029.52,"body":"sometimes it's just nice to just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3029.52,"endTime":3032.61,"body":"be I'm a little more free"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3029.52,"endTime":3032.61,"body":"spirited by nature. I don't like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3032.61,"endTime":3036.0,"body":"organizations. I don't like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3032.61,"endTime":3036.0,"body":"administration. I don't like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3036.54,"endTime":3041.34,"body":"meetings. I don't know. I just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3036.54,"endTime":3041.34,"body":"that's not my thought. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3041.34,"endTime":3043.86,"body":"not alone. And maybe I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3041.34,"endTime":3043.86,"body":"drinking the kool aid of the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3043.86,"endTime":3045.12,"body":"culture of the world right now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3051.91,"endTime":3053.83,"body":"Sick of a nine to five."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3051.91,"endTime":3053.83,"body":"You want to work from home"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3053.83,"endTime":3054.97,"body":"whenever you want. Always?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3054.97,"endTime":3057.31,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. That's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3054.97,"endTime":3057.31,"body":"like the occupational part of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3057.31,"endTime":3060.94,"body":"it. Like, you know, then it"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3057.31,"endTime":3060.94,"body":"comes into my faith. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3061.0,"endTime":3065.92,"body":"anyways, it's just, but all"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3061.0,"endTime":3065.92,"body":"those surveys now on religion"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3066.07,"endTime":3069.43,"body":"are all saying the growing"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3066.07,"endTime":3069.43,"body":"segment of religion right now is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3069.43,"endTime":3073.99,"body":"the nones. Right? Like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3069.43,"endTime":3073.99,"body":"n-o-n-e-s. But it sounds like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3074.02,"endTime":3076.33,"body":"Oh, great. We've got a whole"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3074.02,"endTime":3076.33,"body":"world of atheists."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3076.36,"endTime":3077.29,"body":"Oh, but nones?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3080.32,"endTime":3085.42,"body":"People who have no"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3080.32,"endTime":3085.42,"body":"affiliation? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3085.66,"endTime":3087.49,"body":"And is it okay,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3085.66,"endTime":3087.49,"body":"there's all these nuns."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3089.58,"endTime":3091.5,"body":"You see how that's kind"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3089.58,"endTime":3091.5,"body":"of problematic."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3092.62,"endTime":3096.55,"body":"I wish the nuns"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3092.62,"endTime":3096.55,"body":"were the number one growing. I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3096.55,"endTime":3100.72,"body":"love a good nun. Once on my"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3096.55,"endTime":3100.72,"body":"mission, I saw this nun riding a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3100.72,"endTime":3102.79,"body":"bike around the courtyard of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3100.72,"endTime":3102.79,"body":"this church. And I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3102.79,"endTime":3108.07,"body":"freakin  love that lady, like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3102.79,"endTime":3108.07,"body":"robes blowing in the wind? I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3108.7,"endTime":3114.16,"body":"just love her. So the n-o-n-e-s"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3108.7,"endTime":3114.16,"body":"right, are the growing. But"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3114.16,"endTime":3116.14,"body":"what's interesting is that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3114.16,"endTime":3116.14,"body":"spirituality is actually"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3116.14,"endTime":3119.77,"body":"increasing around the world. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3116.14,"endTime":3119.77,"body":"it's that, I mean, you've heard"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3119.77,"endTime":3124.57,"body":"this before that it's we are a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3119.77,"endTime":3124.57,"body":"lot of people are spiritual, but"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3124.57,"endTime":3127.48,"body":"they don't want a religious"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3124.57,"endTime":3127.48,"body":"affiliation. Right? And"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3127.48,"endTime":3129.58,"body":"particularly the over the last"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3127.48,"endTime":3129.58,"body":"year, you're kind of like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3129.58,"endTime":3133.63,"body":"true. That's actually, that's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3129.58,"endTime":3133.63,"body":"great. You know, I like that,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3133.63,"endTime":3137.41,"body":"like I, my spirit actually likes"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3133.63,"endTime":3137.41,"body":"that. And our foundational story"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3137.41,"endTime":3140.86,"body":"says that you can find God in"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3137.41,"endTime":3140.86,"body":"the woods by yourself without a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3140.86,"endTime":3143.83,"body":"church. Right? Joseph actually"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3140.86,"endTime":3143.83,"body":"went away from church to find"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3143.83,"endTime":3146.2,"body":"God, which is interesting. So"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3143.83,"endTime":3146.2,"body":"it's like, obviously, there's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3146.2,"endTime":3151.24,"body":"elements of that that are true."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3146.2,"endTime":3151.24,"body":"But what is also true is that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3151.24,"endTime":3159.19,"body":"God has scattered the spiritual"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3151.24,"endTime":3159.19,"body":"gifts among us on purpose, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3159.19,"endTime":3162.76,"body":"it comes up in every book of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3159.19,"endTime":3162.76,"body":"Scripture, on purpose, the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3162.76,"endTime":3167.92,"body":"spiritual gifts are scattered"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3162.76,"endTime":3167.92,"body":"among us. So religion is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3167.92,"endTime":3171.91,"body":"actually organized gathering,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3167.92,"endTime":3171.91,"body":"right? So the benefit to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3171.91,"endTime":3176.44,"body":"religion is bringing all the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3171.91,"endTime":3176.44,"body":"spiritual gifts together into"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3176.44,"endTime":3179.62,"body":"one place. And what's"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3176.44,"endTime":3179.62,"body":"interesting is each of the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3179.62,"endTime":3183.01,"body":"spiritual gifts are"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3179.62,"endTime":3183.01,"body":"manifestations of the love and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3183.01,"endTime":3187.69,"body":"character and heart of God. So"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3183.01,"endTime":3187.69,"body":"you can't actually experience"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3188.23,"endTime":3192.34,"body":"the fullness of who God is,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3188.23,"endTime":3192.34,"body":"unless you have gathered"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3192.34,"endTime":3198.58,"body":"together with others. So because"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3192.34,"endTime":3198.58,"body":"of that, no one, if someone is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3198.58,"endTime":3204.13,"body":"missing, then collectively, we"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3198.58,"endTime":3204.13,"body":"are hurting. And collectively,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3204.16,"endTime":3206.89,"body":"we don't represent we don't are"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3204.16,"endTime":3206.89,"body":"not representing God. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3206.89,"endTime":3209.38,"body":"collectively, we're not"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3206.89,"endTime":3209.38,"body":"understanding God, because"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3209.38,"endTime":3213.76,"body":"someone's perspective and gift"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3209.38,"endTime":3213.76,"body":"is missing."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3213.84,"endTime":3216.6,"body":"Can I tell you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3213.84,"endTime":3216.6,"body":"something? I was talking to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3216.6,"endTime":3219.48,"body":"Sarah, my roommate who you know,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3216.6,"endTime":3219.48,"body":"and who's on his way over to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3219.48,"endTime":3222.21,"body":"talk to you right now. Love that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3219.48,"endTime":3222.21,"body":"guy. Oh, my gosh, that's him"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3222.21,"endTime":3227.13,"body":"right now. Did you want him?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3222.21,"endTime":3227.13,"body":"Yeah. Should we just say, Can I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3227.13,"endTime":3230.31,"body":"do something or not orthodox"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3227.13,"endTime":3230.31,"body":"Sarah, coming to come and talk"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3230.31,"endTime":3231.6,"body":"about what we were talking about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3230.31,"endTime":3231.6,"body":"last night."},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3231.0,"endTime":3238.05,"body":"This is my first time on"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3231.0,"endTime":3238.05,"body":"the podcast. So last night,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3238.08,"endTime":3240.99,"body":"Charlie was writing a new"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3238.08,"endTime":3240.99,"body":"portion of his book. And he"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3241.02,"endTime":3244.92,"body":"talked to me about one of my"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3241.02,"endTime":3244.92,"body":"main mantras in life, to"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3245.46,"endTime":3250.23,"body":"experience God through other"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3245.46,"endTime":3250.23,"body":"people, other cultures, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3250.26,"endTime":3254.46,"body":"through the wonders of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3250.26,"endTime":3254.46,"body":"earth, through creation through,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3254.79,"endTime":3258.12,"body":"you know, whatever God has"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3254.79,"endTime":3258.12,"body":"created. I believe that the more"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3258.12,"endTime":3261.48,"body":"that we can understand other"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3258.12,"endTime":3261.48,"body":"people, diverse people,"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3261.63,"endTime":3264.21,"body":"different cultures, the more we"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3261.63,"endTime":3264.21,"body":"can experience what God has"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3264.21,"endTime":3267.6,"body":"created, the more we can see him"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3264.21,"endTime":3267.6,"body":"and his complexity and his true"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3267.6,"endTime":3272.94,"body":"form. And we could see different"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3267.6,"endTime":3272.94,"body":"sides of what God has created"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3272.94,"endTime":3275.97,"body":"within all of us. Because I"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3272.94,"endTime":3275.97,"body":"think yeah, I think that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3275.97,"endTime":3280.83,"body":"everyone has a little piece a"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3275.97,"endTime":3280.83,"body":"little like sliver of divinity"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3280.83,"endTime":3286.26,"body":"inside of them that that God has"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3280.83,"endTime":3286.26,"body":"has given to them. And the more"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3286.26,"endTime":3290.28,"body":"we can, we can understand that"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3286.26,"endTime":3290.28,"body":"like divine beauty in other"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3290.28,"endTime":3292.98,"body":"people, the more we can see God"},{"speaker":"Sarah","startTime":3290.28,"endTime":3292.98,"body":"in all of his forms."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3293.43,"endTime":3294.69,"body":"Homeboy preaching."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3294.9,"endTime":3297.24,"body":"Can you believe that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3294.9,"endTime":3297.24,"body":"like, like, all three of us came"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3297.24,"endTime":3301.77,"body":"to that conclusion like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3297.24,"endTime":3301.77,"body":"separately, like I was thinking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3301.77,"endTime":3303.6,"body":"about that the other day, and I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3301.77,"endTime":3303.6,"body":"was like, Sarah, what about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3303.6,"endTime":3306.48,"body":"this? And he's like, I wrote"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3303.6,"endTime":3306.48,"body":"that as an essay that got me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3306.48,"endTime":3308.97,"body":"into BYU Jerusalem. Like, I've"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3306.48,"endTime":3308.97,"body":"always believed that. And now"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3308.97,"endTime":3310.77,"body":"you're telling me and I'm just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3308.97,"endTime":3310.77,"body":"like, wow."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3311.01,"endTime":3312.15,"body":"Can I share something that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3311.01,"endTime":3312.15,"body":"happened to me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3312.18,"endTime":3312.6,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3312.6,"endTime":3313.29,"body":"Charlie and I were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3312.6,"endTime":3313.29,"body":"reading..."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3313.32,"endTime":3317.07,"body":"It better be a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3313.32,"endTime":3317.07,"body":"fourth witness to this or like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3317.07,"endTime":3317.85,"body":"we don't want to hear it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3317.88,"endTime":3320.55,"body":"Charlie and I are reading"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3317.88,"endTime":3320.55,"body":"Doctrine and Covenants 46, for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3320.55,"endTime":3323.04,"body":"the Come Follow Me readingy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3320.55,"endTime":3323.04,"body":"reading recently, and the like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3323.04,"endTime":3326.16,"body":"the question for that section is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3323.04,"endTime":3326.16,"body":"like, who can come to church?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3326.25,"endTime":3328.44,"body":"Like who's allowed to come to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3326.25,"endTime":3328.44,"body":"church? And then the answer is,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3328.59,"endTime":3330.51,"body":"everyone has a spiritual gift."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3328.59,"endTime":3330.51,"body":"So we're talking about that, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3330.51,"endTime":3331.17,"body":"it's really beautiful."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3331.3,"endTime":3335.32,"body":"And and, like, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3331.3,"endTime":3335.32,"body":"think we should be fighting to"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3335.32,"endTime":3339.4,"body":"bring more people and gather"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3335.32,"endTime":3339.4,"body":"more people, instead of finding"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3339.4,"endTime":3342.88,"body":"ways to exclude people. Like we"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3339.4,"endTime":3342.88,"body":"should be finding ways to like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3342.91,"endTime":3346.63,"body":"because legitimately, if that is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3342.91,"endTime":3346.63,"body":"true, what Sarah just said, is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3346.63,"endTime":3349.54,"body":"true, then we desperately"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3346.63,"endTime":3349.54,"body":"need..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3349.57,"endTime":3350.71,"body":"Like we need to get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3349.57,"endTime":3350.71,"body":"everyone."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3350.74,"endTime":3351.13,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3351.43,"endTime":3352.72,"body":"Or else we're missing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3351.43,"endTime":3352.72,"body":"out on God."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3352.75,"endTime":3355.03,"body":"That and that was"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3352.75,"endTime":3355.03,"body":"the vision from the very, very"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3355.06,"endTime":3357.34,"body":"beginning. That was the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3355.06,"endTime":3357.34,"body":"intention and the vision from"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3357.34,"endTime":3357.79,"body":"day one."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3358.0,"endTime":3360.43,"body":"And that goes back to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3358.0,"endTime":3360.43,"body":"like this all as well in Zion."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3360.43,"endTime":3363.52,"body":"Like, if we are complacent with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3360.43,"endTime":3363.52,"body":"who's at church now, then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3363.52,"endTime":3366.25,"body":"imagine, like, what we are"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3363.52,"endTime":3366.25,"body":"missing?"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3366.34,"endTime":3369.46,"body":"Yeah. If you've"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3366.34,"endTime":3369.46,"body":"heard this talk before, but like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3369.49,"endTime":3373.84,"body":"Jesus was not a scandal, because"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3369.49,"endTime":3373.84,"body":"of who he excluded. He was a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3373.84,"endTime":3375.76,"body":"scandal because of who he"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3373.84,"endTime":3375.76,"body":"included."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3376.33,"endTime":3377.02,"body":"Wow, that's good."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3377.47,"endTime":3378.76,"body":"I know. Can I write"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3377.47,"endTime":3378.76,"body":"that down?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3378.79,"endTime":3380.8,"body":"Yeah. Like really? Like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3378.79,"endTime":3380.8,"body":"you've never said that before?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3380.9,"endTime":3384.14,"body":"No, we're gonna make"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3380.9,"endTime":3384.14,"body":"that a little quote and put it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3384.14,"endTime":3388.16,"body":"on our Instagram. So get ready."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3384.14,"endTime":3388.16,"body":"Check your feed."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3388.58,"endTime":3391.82,"body":"Right. Isn't that"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3388.58,"endTime":3391.82,"body":"true? Yeah. They like issued a"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3391.82,"endTime":3393.71,"body":"complaint toward like..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3393.71,"endTime":3395.6,"body":"He was so loving that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3393.71,"endTime":3395.6,"body":"they killed him."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3395.69,"endTime":3399.89,"body":"Yeah, it was like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3395.69,"endTime":3399.89,"body":"Oh, my God, like, yeah, no one"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3399.89,"endTime":3403.04,"body":"ever complained and said, like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3399.89,"endTime":3403.04,"body":"you didn't include anybody. You"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3403.04,"endTime":3406.01,"body":"know, they complained, because"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3403.04,"endTime":3406.01,"body":"of who he included. That's just"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3406.82,"endTime":3410.57,"body":"so it makes me want to say this"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3406.82,"endTime":3410.57,"body":"is just too bold to say, it"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3410.57,"endTime":3415.76,"body":"really was religious people who"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3410.57,"endTime":3415.76,"body":"killed Jesus, whenever you were,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3415.88,"endTime":3420.38,"body":"people were near him, who had"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3415.88,"endTime":3420.38,"body":"messed up lives, and who were"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3420.38,"endTime":3424.67,"body":"broken, and who were worried and"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3420.38,"endTime":3424.67,"body":"who were wondering, and who were"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3424.67,"endTime":3428.54,"body":"like doggy paddling, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3424.67,"endTime":3428.54,"body":"through life, like those are the"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3428.54,"endTime":3434.24,"body":"people who felt super"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3428.54,"endTime":3434.24,"body":"comfortable around him. And so I"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3434.24,"endTime":3437.36,"body":"want to say, if that same group"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3434.24,"endTime":3437.36,"body":"of people does not feel"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3437.36,"endTime":3440.93,"body":"comfortable in my church"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3437.36,"endTime":3440.93,"body":"congregation, then there must"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3440.93,"endTime":3444.77,"body":"not be a lot of Jesus in it."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3440.93,"endTime":3444.77,"body":"Because they probably should."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3445.4,"endTime":3448.79,"body":"And that's something I take"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3445.4,"endTime":3448.79,"body":"like, super seriously, when like"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3448.79,"endTime":3451.79,"body":"thinking what are you"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3448.79,"endTime":3451.79,"body":"contributing to the culture of"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3451.79,"endTime":3453.32,"body":"your faith community?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3453.5,"endTime":3456.56,"body":"Yeah, I love that. This"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3453.5,"endTime":3456.56,"body":"is cool. I love this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3456.56,"endTime":3457.25,"body":"conversation"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3457.28,"endTime":3457.85,"body":"Same."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3459.14,"endTime":3459.83,"body":"I'm fine with it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3459.98,"endTime":3466.49,"body":"I'm wondering if I'm"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3459.98,"endTime":3466.49,"body":"being deceived by you. But it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3466.49,"endTime":3467.39,"body":"feels really good."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3467.99,"endTime":3469.79,"body":"Well, let's include"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3467.99,"endTime":3469.79,"body":"everyone and see how it feels."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3469.82,"endTime":3474.98,"body":"Yeah, I feel like it's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3469.82,"endTime":3474.98,"body":"nice. Hello, Zion. Come and join"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3474.98,"endTime":3480.77,"body":"with us. Anyway, thanks for"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3474.98,"endTime":3480.77,"body":"coming on. This is this is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3481.01,"endTime":3484.4,"body":"probably our longest thing. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3481.01,"endTime":3484.4,"body":"it was so fun. I was like, you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3484.4,"endTime":3486.2,"body":"know, me and Sarah were talking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3484.4,"endTime":3486.2,"body":"about this last night and in"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3486.2,"endTime":3486.68,"body":"walks Sarah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3488.24,"endTime":3490.01,"body":"Dude, I really should lock"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3488.24,"endTime":3490.01,"body":"the door more."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3491.03,"endTime":3493.37,"body":"Speak someone else"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3491.03,"endTime":3493.37,"body":"into existence is what I want"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3493.37,"endTime":3494.12,"body":"you to do right now."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3494.12,"endTime":3498.71,"body":"We should have excluded"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3494.12,"endTime":3498.71,"body":"Sarah. That's amazing."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3499.4,"endTime":3501.89,"body":"Strangers on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3499.4,"endTime":3501.89,"body":"Oh my gosh."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3501.3,"endTime":3505.41,"body":"The diversity is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3501.3,"endTime":3505.41,"body":"lacking. You guys can all send"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3505.41,"endTime":3509.28,"body":"us emails to complain. Anyway,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3505.41,"endTime":3509.28,"body":"thanks for coming on. This was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3509.28,"endTime":3513.42,"body":"awesome. Yeah. I love this like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3509.28,"endTime":3513.42,"body":"like honestly like, amen, amen,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3513.42,"endTime":3513.93,"body":"amen."},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3515.04,"endTime":3519.21,"body":"Oh, thanks fo"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3515.04,"endTime":3519.21,"body":"having me. Should I say that is"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3519.21,"endTime":3521.91,"body":"supposed to be my line right now"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3519.21,"endTime":3521.91,"body":"I really was thinking in my h"},{"speaker":"Dave Butler","startTime":3521.91,"endTime":3523.02,"body":"art."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3524.16,"endTime":3526.71,"body":"Like I want I just want"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3524.16,"endTime":3526.71,"body":"to say like in the name of Jesus"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3528.69,"endTime":3532.8,"body":"Christ but I don't know if I c"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3528.69,"endTime":3532.8,"body":"n s"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3536.4,"endTime":3538.68,"body":"Thank you for joining us"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3536.4,"endTime":3538.68,"body":"today. If you've enjoyed this or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3538.68,"endTime":3541.35,"body":"other episodes, please consider"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3538.68,"endTime":3541.35,"body":"leaving a review following us on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3541.35,"endTime":3544.14,"body":"Instagram or Facebook at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3541.35,"endTime":3544.14,"body":"Questions from the Closet"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3544.14,"endTime":3546.75,"body":"r sharing this podcast wi"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3544.14,"endTime":3546.75,"body":"h someone you love. And as alway"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3546.75,"endTime":3548.97,"body":", please remember that we do n"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3546.75,"endTime":3548.97,"body":"t represent the Church of Jes"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3548.97,"endTime":3551.64,"body":"s Christ of Latter-day Saints"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3548.97,"endTime":3551.64,"body":"r Brigham Young University. We'"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3551.64,"endTime":3554.1,"body":"e not trying to be prescripti"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3551.64,"endTime":3554.1,"body":"e or tell anyone what to think"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":3554.1,"endTime":3554.91,"body":"or what to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3554.91,"endTime":3557.13,"body":"You heard t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3554.91,"endTime":3557.13,"body":"ree perspectives. Actually four."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3557.13,"endTime":3560.22,"body":"You heard four perspectives."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3557.13,"endTime":3560.22,"body":"And there are many, many more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3560.22,"endTime":3562.92,"body":"We encourage you to listen to o"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3560.22,"endTime":3562.92,"body":"her voices in here a wide variet"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3562.92,"endTime":3565.65,"body":"of experiences. If you would"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3562.92,"endTime":3565.65,"body":"ike to submit a question or sha"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3565.65,"endTime":3568.68,"body":"e a comment about today's epis"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3565.65,"endTime":3568.68,"body":"de. You can email us at quest"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3568.68,"endTime":3571.5,"body":"onsfromthecloset@gmail.com. Unti"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3568.68,"endTime":3571.5,"body":"next time"}]}