{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3.09,"endTime":5.34,"body":"Welcome to Questions"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":3.09,"endTime":5.34,"body":"from the Closet. I'm Charlie"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":5.34,"endTime":5.67,"body":"Bird."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.79,"endTime":8.76,"body":"And I'm Ben Schilaty. Each"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":5.79,"endTime":8.76,"body":"episode we discuss a question"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.76,"endTime":11.31,"body":"that we commonly get asked as"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":8.76,"endTime":11.31,"body":"LGBTQ Latter-day Saints."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.49,"endTime":13.47,"body":"We're not trying to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":11.49,"endTime":13.47,"body":"answer this question or come to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.47,"endTime":16.38,"body":"a consensus but simply sharing"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":13.47,"endTime":16.38,"body":"our perspectives. Today's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":16.38,"endTime":18.84,"body":"question is, what if my spouse"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":16.38,"endTime":18.84,"body":"comes out as gay?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":18.84,"endTime":22.47,"body":"Which we both have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":18.84,"endTime":22.47,"body":"experience with? Charlie and I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":22.47,"endTime":24.57,"body":"are not terribly diverse and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":22.47,"endTime":24.57,"body":"share many opinions and life"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":24.57,"endTime":27.84,"body":"experiences. For example, we"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":24.57,"endTime":27.84,"body":"both have dated girls."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":28.02,"endTime":30.27,"body":"However, there are some"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":28.02,"endTime":30.27,"body":"pretty big differences. For"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":30.27,"endTime":33.36,"body":"example, I have never been"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":30.27,"endTime":33.36,"body":"dumped by a girl but Ben has."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":33.36,"endTime":34.38,"body":"They all dumped me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":34.41,"endTime":35.43,"body":"Why did they dump you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":34.41,"endTime":35.43,"body":"Ben?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":35.43,"endTime":39.09,"body":"One girl because she could"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":35.43,"endTime":39.09,"body":"tell I wasn't into it. And the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":39.09,"endTime":43.8,"body":"other one because she went on a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":39.09,"endTime":43.8,"body":"long trip. And she said she"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":43.8,"endTime":49.89,"body":"didn't miss me while she was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":43.8,"endTime":49.89,"body":"gone. Those weren't the exact"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.89,"endTime":53.28,"body":"words she used but that was the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":49.89,"endTime":53.28,"body":"sentiment, but I think it also"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":53.28,"endTime":55.44,"body":"was like I was gay. And she was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":53.28,"endTime":55.44,"body":"like, one of the first people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":55.44,"endTime":56.07,"body":"ever told."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":56.1,"endTime":57.0,"body":"Oh, she knew you were gay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":57.03,"endTime":57.57,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":57.69,"endTime":59.28,"body":"Oh, I know. I know who"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":57.69,"endTime":59.28,"body":"you're talking about now."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":59.219,"endTime":61.259,"body":"Yeah, well, I mean, I wrote"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":59.219,"endTime":61.259,"body":"a whole book about her. A whole"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":61.259,"endTime":67.589,"body":"chapter. Anyway, and then the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":61.259,"endTime":67.589,"body":"third girl I dated, I guess I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":67.589,"endTime":71.429,"body":"technically broke up with her."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":67.589,"endTime":71.429,"body":"But she, I could tell she wanted"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":71.429,"endTime":73.409,"body":"to break up with me. And she"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":71.429,"endTime":73.409,"body":"was, like, six years younger"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":73.409,"endTime":77.339,"body":"than me. And so we like went on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":73.409,"endTime":77.339,"body":"this like date to Salt Lake. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":77.369,"endTime":80.039,"body":"we were coming home. And she"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":77.369,"endTime":80.039,"body":"like, obviously, for a couple of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":80.039,"endTime":83.099,"body":"days. Like I could tell she was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":80.039,"endTime":83.099,"body":"like wanting to be out of it. So"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":83.129,"endTime":86.549,"body":"when I like dropped her off, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":83.129,"endTime":86.549,"body":"was like, so how do you feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":86.549,"endTime":89.789,"body":"like things are going and she"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":86.549,"endTime":89.789,"body":"said, do you want to say it? And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":89.789,"endTime":94.079,"body":"I said yes. As I think we should"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":89.789,"endTime":94.079,"body":"break up and she said so do I."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":94.16,"endTime":96.74,"body":"Wow. You're a bad"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":94.16,"endTime":96.74,"body":"boyfriend?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":96.92,"endTime":100.01,"body":"No I was not a bad"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":96.92,"endTime":100.01,"body":"boyfriend. I just, well, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":100.01,"endTime":101.45,"body":"it depends what you want in a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":100.01,"endTime":101.45,"body":"boyfriend. You want someone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":101.45,"endTime":103.52,"body":"who's like nice and kind and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":101.45,"endTime":103.52,"body":"attentive. I'm great."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":103.88,"endTime":108.68,"body":"I guess they wanted"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":103.88,"endTime":108.68,"body":"someone, I don't know. They all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":108.68,"endTime":109.37,"body":"dumped you so..."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":110.63,"endTime":112.76,"body":"They're all very happily"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":110.63,"endTime":112.76,"body":"married to other people. Well,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":112.76,"endTime":114.62,"body":"actually, the first one, I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":112.76,"endTime":114.62,"body":"know, because I haven't talked"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":114.62,"endTime":117.41,"body":"to her a long time. But I assume"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":114.62,"endTime":117.41,"body":"she's happily married. She"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":117.41,"endTime":119.48,"body":"actually reached out to me on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":117.41,"endTime":119.48,"body":"Facebook a couple weeks ago. We"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":119.48,"endTime":120.98,"body":"haven't talked for like 11"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":119.48,"endTime":120.98,"body":"years."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":121.46,"endTime":122.12,"body":"That's exciting."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":122.0,"endTime":123.89,"body":"Now it's been more than"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":122.0,"endTime":123.89,"body":"that. I went and saw here when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":123.89,"endTime":126.32,"body":"worked at the MTC and I stopped"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":123.89,"endTime":126.32,"body":"working there when I was 24."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":126.47,"endTime":128.0,"body":"I feel like we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":126.47,"endTime":128.0,"body":"getting down a rabbit hole."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":128.0,"endTime":132.32,"body":"Anyway, how about the girls"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":128.0,"endTime":132.32,"body":"that you've dumped Charlie. You"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":132.32,"endTime":133.94,"body":"seem like the bad boyfriend if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":132.32,"endTime":133.94,"body":"you're the one dumping the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":133.94,"endTime":135.74,"body":"girls. Well, I was gay."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":138.27,"endTime":141.36,"body":"Just like, ah, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":138.27,"endTime":141.36,"body":"if we get, I don't know, we"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":141.36,"endTime":144.63,"body":"talked we did a whole episode on"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":141.36,"endTime":144.63,"body":"kissing, right? Kissing girls"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":144.63,"endTime":147.84,"body":"and like, I don't like, girls"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":144.63,"endTime":147.84,"body":"would like want to marry me. And"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":147.84,"endTime":151.8,"body":"I'd be like, oh my gosh, like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":147.84,"endTime":151.8,"body":"haven't even kissed you yet."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":153.54,"endTime":154.47,"body":"It's the charm."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":154.95,"endTime":157.17,"body":"See, girls want to marry"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":154.95,"endTime":157.17,"body":"me, but not the ones I've dated."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":158.22,"endTime":160.68,"body":"Anyway, we need to move"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":158.22,"endTime":160.68,"body":"on from this or it will get real"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":160.68,"endTime":166.26,"body":"sticky real fast. Or it's about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":160.68,"endTime":166.26,"body":"to get stickier. Because we like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":166.26,"endTime":168.63,"body":"to provide a variety of voices"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":166.26,"endTime":168.63,"body":"and perspectives. And today"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":168.63,"endTime":170.04,"body":"we're joined by Jessica Frew."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":170.43,"endTime":171.21,"body":"Hi, guys."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":172.62,"endTime":174.51,"body":"So tell us a little bit"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":172.62,"endTime":174.51,"body":"about yourself."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":174.9,"endTime":178.14,"body":"My name is"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":174.9,"endTime":178.14,"body":"Jessica. I co-host a podcast"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":178.14,"endTime":181.56,"body":"with my husband and my"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":178.14,"endTime":181.56,"body":"ex-husband. My ex-husband is"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":181.56,"endTime":185.94,"body":"Steve and he is gay. My husband"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":181.56,"endTime":185.94,"body":"is Matt and he is straight. So"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":185.94,"endTime":190.41,"body":"that's a bonus for me. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":185.94,"endTime":190.41,"body":"I have two stepkids. I have a"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":190.41,"endTime":196.53,"body":"daughter Penny who's 11. And now"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":190.41,"endTime":196.53,"body":"I'm a bold action taker. That's"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":196.53,"endTime":199.56,"body":"what I always say. We're"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":196.53,"endTime":199.56,"body":"teaching people to lead bold"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":199.56,"endTime":202.2,"body":"lives live the life that feels"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":199.56,"endTime":202.2,"body":"true to who you are."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":202.9,"endTime":206.5,"body":"Is that why you shaved"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":202.9,"endTime":206.5,"body":"your head? Am I allowed to ask"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":206.5,"endTime":208.81,"body":"that? Yeah, your hair is so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":206.5,"endTime":208.81,"body":"cool."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":210.16,"endTime":214.51,"body":"The lack of hair?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":210.16,"endTime":214.51,"body":"So honestly, it started as I"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":214.51,"endTime":217.9,"body":"wanted to know what it would be"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":214.51,"endTime":217.9,"body":"like to have my head shaved"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":217.93,"endTime":220.93,"body":"because hair is such an"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":217.93,"endTime":220.93,"body":"identifying factor for who we"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":220.93,"endTime":224.41,"body":"are. And I'm always the short"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":220.93,"endTime":224.41,"body":"girl with the spiky hair because"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":224.41,"endTime":227.32,"body":"my hair is still usually short,"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":224.41,"endTime":227.32,"body":"but it's sticking up. So I was"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":227.32,"endTime":230.17,"body":"like okay, so what happens when"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":227.32,"endTime":230.17,"body":"I get rid of this? Do I still"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":230.17,"endTime":234.94,"body":"feel confident? Do I still know"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":230.17,"endTime":234.94,"body":"who I am? So I shaved it off."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":235.18,"endTime":235.93,"body":"And I love it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":236.11,"endTime":237.16,"body":"You still feel who you are?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":237.19,"endTime":237.67,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":237.79,"endTime":239.8,"body":"they have like the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":237.79,"endTime":239.8,"body":"opposite effect though. Because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":239.8,"endTime":244.69,"body":"now you still don't know because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":239.8,"endTime":244.69,"body":"you still love your hair. You're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":244.69,"endTime":246.19,"body":"gonna have to grow it out really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":244.69,"endTime":246.19,"body":"long."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":246.93,"endTime":249.93,"body":"I thought about"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":246.93,"endTime":249.93,"body":"buying some wigs just to see"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":249.93,"endTime":254.07,"body":"what it's like to have really"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":249.93,"endTime":254.07,"body":"long hair. But yeah, I actually"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":254.07,"endTime":256.38,"body":"was thinking about this as I was"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":254.07,"endTime":256.38,"body":"getting ready to come here"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":256.38,"endTime":260.7,"body":"tonight. I always am a little"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":256.38,"endTime":260.7,"body":"extra and definitely don't fit"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":261.12,"endTime":263.79,"body":"the typical Mormon LDS mold."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":264.48,"endTime":267.36,"body":"And I thought it was really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":264.48,"endTime":267.36,"body":"normal to do a podcast with your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":267.36,"endTime":268.26,"body":"husband and ex husband."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":268.26,"endTime":270.15,"body":"It's totally"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":268.26,"endTime":270.15,"body":"normal. Totally normal. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":271.86,"endTime":273.33,"body":"So you often don't fit in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":271.86,"endTime":273.33,"body":"you feel."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":273.33,"endTime":276.36,"body":"Yeah, I but I've"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":273.33,"endTime":276.36,"body":"never. I don't have a problem"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":276.36,"endTime":281.97,"body":"with that. I it's just who I am."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":276.36,"endTime":281.97,"body":"And I'm okay with that. So..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":282.09,"endTime":282.69,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":283.47,"endTime":286.02,"body":"Also you have a great head"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":283.47,"endTime":286.02,"body":"shape for having children. Thank"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":286.02,"endTime":289.08,"body":"you. Thank you. I worked hard on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":286.02,"endTime":289.08,"body":"that. Very good. headshake."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":290.64,"endTime":293.16,"body":"Also, I want to say that your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":290.64,"endTime":293.16,"body":"daughter Penny made Charlie and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":293.16,"endTime":296.76,"body":"me rainbow bracelets. That we're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":293.16,"endTime":296.76,"body":"both wearing. I mean great"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":296.76,"endTime":299.46,"body":"content for a podcast to talk"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":296.76,"endTime":299.46,"body":"about something people can't see"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":299.46,"endTime":300.66,"body":"it. Hair and bracelets."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":301.47,"endTime":303.63,"body":"Before I left"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":301.47,"endTime":303.63,"body":"tonight she's like, did you get"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":303.63,"endTime":305.97,"body":"the bracelets? Yes, Penny. I"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":303.63,"endTime":305.97,"body":"have the bracelets."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":306.27,"endTime":306.96,"body":"We got them."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":306.96,"endTime":312.03,"body":"Super cute. Thanks,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":306.96,"endTime":312.03,"body":"Penny. Yeah. So you have"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":312.03,"endTime":313.95,"body":"experienced dating gay guys."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":314.08,"endTime":316.96,"body":"I have. I have."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":314.08,"endTime":316.96,"body":"And it was interesting."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":317.26,"endTime":320.68,"body":"listening to you guys talk about"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":317.26,"endTime":320.68,"body":"it and kissing or not kissing"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":320.68,"endTime":324.79,"body":"girls and girls you dated and"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":320.68,"endTime":324.79,"body":"how they they did want to marry"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":324.79,"endTime":327.07,"body":"or not marry you. Because they"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":324.79,"endTime":327.07,"body":"can tell."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":327.07,"endTime":329.05,"body":"They wanted to marry me"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":327.07,"endTime":329.05,"body":"but they did not want to marry"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":330.73,"endTime":330.82,"body":"Ben."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":330.85,"endTime":333.07,"body":"The last year I dated I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":330.85,"endTime":333.07,"body":"26. I didn't glow up until I was"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":333.07,"endTime":333.64,"body":"like 28."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":334.15,"endTime":337.06,"body":"That's fair. Mine were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":334.15,"endTime":337.06,"body":"all post glow up."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":337.09,"endTime":339.55,"body":"Now if I now if I did a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":337.09,"endTime":339.55,"body":"woman she'd be like, yeah, let's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":339.55,"endTime":340.0,"body":"get married."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":340.9,"endTime":343.09,"body":"I mean, it's okay, Ben."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":344.53,"endTime":348.76,"body":"Honestly, though, she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":344.53,"endTime":348.76,"body":"really probably would. I like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.76,"endTime":350.74,"body":"even once I found out that Steve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.76,"endTime":350.74,"body":"was gay. It was after we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":350.74,"endTime":353.2,"body":"married, I realized six months"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":350.74,"endTime":353.2,"body":"into our marriage that he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":353.2,"endTime":358.03,"body":"gay. It took him a little longer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":353.2,"endTime":358.03,"body":"to realize that. But I also it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":358.03,"endTime":362.02,"body":"didn't change who he was to me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":358.03,"endTime":362.02,"body":"in that moment. So that was I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.02,"endTime":365.8,"body":"mean, it didn't change our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.02,"endTime":365.8,"body":"relationship negatively at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.8,"endTime":369.19,"body":"point. And so it was just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.8,"endTime":369.19,"body":"getting to know him better. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":369.19,"endTime":373.78,"body":"got to know him on a deeper"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":369.19,"endTime":373.78,"body":"level. And but dating wise, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":373.78,"endTime":376.24,"body":"was funny because he said all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":373.78,"endTime":376.24,"body":"these girls I dated before I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":376.24,"endTime":378.82,"body":"never really into I didn't want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":376.24,"endTime":378.82,"body":"to make out with them. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":378.82,"endTime":381.46,"body":"want to kiss them. They always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":378.82,"endTime":381.46,"body":"tried to kiss me. It never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":381.46,"endTime":384.79,"body":"really did anything for me. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":381.46,"endTime":384.79,"body":"he said all of them always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":384.79,"endTime":386.83,"body":"wanted to marry me. And their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":384.79,"endTime":386.83,"body":"moms wanted them to marry me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":386.83,"endTime":391.06,"body":"because I was a good guy and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":386.83,"endTime":391.06,"body":"respected them. And so anyways,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":391.06,"endTime":393.04,"body":"it was just interesting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":391.06,"endTime":393.04,"body":"listening to you guys talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":393.04,"endTime":395.71,"body":"that. And like, Oh, yeah, Steve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":393.04,"endTime":395.71,"body":"relates to these sentiments."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":395.74,"endTime":397.99,"body":"Yeah, I very much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":395.74,"endTime":397.99,"body":"relate to that. Oh, you treat"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":397.99,"endTime":400.24,"body":"her so well. And you're always"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":397.99,"endTime":400.24,"body":"so well groomed."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":403.15,"endTime":403.87,"body":"Like I care."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":404.29,"endTime":406.93,"body":"So Jessica, you knew your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":404.29,"endTime":406.93,"body":"husband was gay before you did?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":407.38,"endTime":408.61,"body":"Before he did."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":408.61,"endTime":411.28,"body":"Yes. And I asked him at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":408.61,"endTime":411.28,"body":"that point six months into our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":411.28,"endTime":411.73,"body":"marriage. Are you gay?"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":411.73,"endTime":413.29,"body":"Oh my gosh! That is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":411.73,"endTime":413.29,"body":"bold."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":413.59,"endTime":417.4,"body":"And he, it sent him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":413.59,"endTime":417.4,"body":"into like a tailspin. Because he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":417.4,"endTime":421.33,"body":"had never allowed himself to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":417.4,"endTime":421.33,"body":"think those words. Even though"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.33,"endTime":424.18,"body":"he was pretty aware of the fact"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.33,"endTime":424.18,"body":"he was gay, he was very much in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":424.18,"endTime":427.36,"body":"denial about that fact, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":424.18,"endTime":427.36,"body":"didn't want to admit that to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.36,"endTime":432.64,"body":"himself. And I'm newly married"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.36,"endTime":432.64,"body":"to a returned missionary. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.64,"endTime":435.13,"body":"you know, everything is supposed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.64,"endTime":435.13,"body":"to be great. And he had already"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.13,"endTime":438.76,"body":"told me like he had pornography"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.13,"endTime":438.76,"body":"issues, however you want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.79,"endTime":441.94,"body":"identify that. He did not tell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.79,"endTime":441.94,"body":"me it was all gay porn. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.94,"endTime":444.16,"body":"that's when I found all the gay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.94,"endTime":444.16,"body":"porn six months in. And I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":444.16,"endTime":448.66,"body":"like, Oh, okay. This is like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":444.16,"endTime":448.66,"body":"another level to this."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":449.58,"endTime":452.19,"body":"What was your initial"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":449.58,"endTime":452.19,"body":"reaction to that? Like, how did"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":452.19,"endTime":453.36,"body":"your heart take that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":453.81,"endTime":456.87,"body":"I remember, we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":453.81,"endTime":456.87,"body":"living in Maryland at the time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":456.9,"endTime":460.23,"body":"And so we didn't know anybody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":456.9,"endTime":460.23,"body":"there. And I'm at home at our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.23,"endTime":462.39,"body":"apartment, and I was laying on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.23,"endTime":462.39,"body":"the floor on the computer and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":462.39,"endTime":465.81,"body":"all this gay porn started coming"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":462.39,"endTime":465.81,"body":"up. And I'm realizing, Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":465.81,"endTime":470.22,"body":"gosh, like this, straight men"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":465.81,"endTime":470.22,"body":"typically don't look at gay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.22,"endTime":476.43,"body":"porn. And I laid there probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.22,"endTime":476.43,"body":"for an hour or so crying, just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":476.46,"endTime":480.39,"body":"processing all this, like, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":476.46,"endTime":480.39,"body":"does this mean? We are so happy."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":480.51,"endTime":484.77,"body":"We were so happy. And wondering"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":480.51,"endTime":484.77,"body":"how do I talk to him about this,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.77,"endTime":488.52,"body":"I don't want to push him away. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.77,"endTime":488.52,"body":"want to draw him in. And I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":488.52,"endTime":490.86,"body":"glad he was at work and didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":488.52,"endTime":490.86,"body":"get home until late because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":490.86,"endTime":494.37,"body":"could kind of think through some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":490.86,"endTime":494.37,"body":"things. Not that it was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":494.37,"endTime":498.81,"body":"time. But I wanted him to feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":494.37,"endTime":498.81,"body":"to feel safe. And I wanted him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":498.81,"endTime":501.93,"body":"to know I still loved him that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":498.81,"endTime":501.93,"body":"it didn't change anything. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.93,"endTime":506.46,"body":"it I mean, it obviously did in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":501.93,"endTime":506.46,"body":"ways but the feelings I had for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":506.46,"endTime":509.91,"body":"him were still the same. And it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":506.46,"endTime":509.91,"body":"was interesting. When he got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":509.91,"endTime":513.78,"body":"home that night he knew. He was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":509.91,"endTime":513.78,"body":"like, Oh my gosh, he could tell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":514.38,"endTime":516.57,"body":"that something happened. And we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":514.38,"endTime":516.57,"body":"talked about it. But he's still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":516.57,"endTime":519.09,"body":"at that point told me \"Well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":516.57,"endTime":519.09,"body":"not gay. The reason I look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":519.09,"endTime":525.45,"body":"gay porn is because I didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":519.09,"endTime":525.45,"body":"want to disrespect women.\" So he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.45,"endTime":527.43,"body":"very much had convinced himself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.45,"endTime":527.43,"body":"of that."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":528.51,"endTime":529.29,"body":"Did you believe him?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":529.33,"endTime":534.34,"body":"No. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":529.33,"endTime":534.34,"body":"that's fine. Like, we can take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":534.34,"endTime":536.71,"body":"time to process this. But he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":534.34,"endTime":536.71,"body":"said for the next three weeks,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":536.71,"endTime":539.68,"body":"like that's all he thought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":536.71,"endTime":539.68,"body":"about, am I gay. And it's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":539.68,"endTime":543.01,"body":"first time he allowed himself to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":539.68,"endTime":543.01,"body":"think those words to him. And he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":543.01,"endTime":547.51,"body":"was scared as most people are,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":543.01,"endTime":547.51,"body":"from what I hear, I haven't gone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.51,"endTime":551.65,"body":"through a coming out experience,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.51,"endTime":551.65,"body":"that coming out, people aren't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.65,"endTime":554.68,"body":"going to love you. These, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.65,"endTime":554.68,"body":"people that you love are going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":554.68,"endTime":560.83,"body":"to love you and accept you. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":554.68,"endTime":560.83,"body":"I didn't want to prove him right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":560.83,"endTime":565.24,"body":"about that. And so I've made it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":560.83,"endTime":565.24,"body":"a point from that moment to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.24,"endTime":570.58,"body":"always love him. And it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.24,"endTime":570.58,"body":"been an interesting ride."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":570.64,"endTime":574.0,"body":"Obviously, we're divorced at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":570.64,"endTime":574.0,"body":"this point. But that was my main"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.0,"endTime":578.83,"body":"goal is for him to know he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.0,"endTime":578.83,"body":"loved. It even if it was only by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":578.83,"endTime":583.69,"body":"me that he had somebody in his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":578.83,"endTime":583.69,"body":"corner, who loved him and on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":583.69,"endTime":587.95,"body":"some level I'm the person that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":583.69,"endTime":587.95,"body":"should be the most offended,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":587.95,"endTime":591.97,"body":"like affected by this by this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":587.95,"endTime":591.97,"body":"knowledge. Anyway, it took him a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":591.97,"endTime":594.04,"body":"year later for him to realize he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":591.97,"endTime":594.04,"body":"was gay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":594.04,"endTime":596.2,"body":"Can I pause you for a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":594.04,"endTime":596.2,"body":"second Jessica? You were getting"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":596.2,"endTime":598.57,"body":"emotional as you were talking"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":596.2,"endTime":598.57,"body":"about that. Yeah, like unpack"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":598.57,"endTime":600.52,"body":"that like like, where's that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":598.57,"endTime":600.52,"body":"emotion come coming from?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.72,"endTime":604.92,"body":"So it really comes from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.72,"endTime":604.92,"body":"at the end of our marriage when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":604.95,"endTime":607.59,"body":"he did start coming out to other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":604.95,"endTime":607.59,"body":"people, because people are like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":607.59,"endTime":610.77,"body":"why are you guys getting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":607.59,"endTime":610.77,"body":"divorced, you guys are happy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":610.8,"endTime":614.37,"body":"and we were happy. We had a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":610.8,"endTime":614.37,"body":"marriage, we knew so much about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":614.37,"endTime":619.08,"body":"each other. And so very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":614.37,"endTime":619.08,"body":"emotionally connected. And so we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.11,"endTime":621.66,"body":"I said, Steve, we don't really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.11,"endTime":621.66,"body":"have a choice but to tell people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":621.72,"endTime":625.08,"body":"and he had had an affair. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":621.72,"endTime":625.08,"body":"all these things and, and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":625.08,"endTime":627.81,"body":"tried to work through the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":625.08,"endTime":627.81,"body":"affair, but it just wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.84,"endTime":630.3,"body":"working. He wasn't attracted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.84,"endTime":630.3,"body":"me any more after he had the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.3,"endTime":632.52,"body":"affair. And I was like, Alright,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.3,"endTime":632.52,"body":"I don't I don't know if I can do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":632.52,"endTime":638.88,"body":"that. And, but he was suicidal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":632.52,"endTime":638.88,"body":"at that point. And I just knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":639.45,"endTime":642.75,"body":"that I needed to stay close to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":639.45,"endTime":642.75,"body":"him, and to show him that love."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":642.75,"endTime":645.84,"body":"And so that's, that's why I get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":642.75,"endTime":645.84,"body":"emotional thinking about that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":645.84,"endTime":650.37,"body":"because I know how real it is."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":645.84,"endTime":650.37,"body":"And I watched him fight for so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.37,"endTime":655.41,"body":"long to do what he thought was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.37,"endTime":655.41,"body":"right, to do what he thought"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":655.44,"endTime":658.59,"body":"would fix him. And I never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":655.44,"endTime":658.59,"body":"thought he would be fixed. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.59,"endTime":661.65,"body":"knew he would always be gay. I,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":658.59,"endTime":661.65,"body":"but I also felt he could be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":661.65,"endTime":666.03,"body":"happy in our marriage because we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":661.65,"endTime":666.03,"body":"were happy. But I didn't. At"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.03,"endTime":669.33,"body":"that point when he was suicidal."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.03,"endTime":669.33,"body":"I mean, I needed him to know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.33,"endTime":672.93,"body":"that I loved him. And while I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.33,"endTime":672.93,"body":"was going through a whole slew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":672.93,"endTime":675.87,"body":"of emotions, on my end of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":672.93,"endTime":675.87,"body":"things, because I was getting a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":675.87,"endTime":680.19,"body":"divorce, we had a two year old"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":675.87,"endTime":680.19,"body":"daughter at that point. And he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":680.19,"endTime":683.04,"body":"had had an affair and all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":680.19,"endTime":683.04,"body":"these things, I also knew that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":683.04,"endTime":687.45,"body":"could set those things aside and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":683.04,"endTime":687.45,"body":"still love him. And it was just,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":687.57,"endTime":691.02,"body":"yeah, it was just very real. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":687.57,"endTime":691.02,"body":"understanding how important that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":691.02,"endTime":693.72,"body":"is for somebody to have when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":691.02,"endTime":693.72,"body":"they're going through that and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.72,"endTime":696.57,"body":"not knowing if how his family is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.72,"endTime":696.57,"body":"gonna respond or how my family"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.57,"endTime":699.81,"body":"is gonna respond and all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.57,"endTime":699.81,"body":"these things. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":699.93,"endTime":703.26,"body":"That's such a kind way to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":699.93,"endTime":703.26,"body":"respond to someone saying, you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":703.26,"endTime":705.9,"body":"know, this affects me, but I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":703.26,"endTime":705.9,"body":"love you. Yeah, no matter what."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":705.93,"endTime":707.97,"body":"You have such a big"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":705.93,"endTime":707.97,"body":"heart."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":708.9,"endTime":709.59,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":709.65,"endTime":713.52,"body":"I'm just trying to put"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":709.65,"endTime":713.52,"body":"myself in that position of being"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":713.52,"endTime":716.01,"body":"recently married thinking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":713.52,"endTime":716.01,"body":"everything's okay. And for those"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":716.01,"endTime":718.92,"body":"first six months, you're like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":716.01,"endTime":718.92,"body":"happily married and life is"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":718.92,"endTime":723.27,"body":"bliss. And, and you have this"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":718.92,"endTime":723.27,"body":"earth shattering realization."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":723.69,"endTime":728.07,"body":"But but to realize that on the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":723.69,"endTime":728.07,"body":"other end of it, for those six"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":728.07,"endTime":733.8,"body":"months, he was probably, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":728.07,"endTime":733.8,"body":"devoured by shame. And I that's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":733.8,"endTime":738.09,"body":"just such a Christ-like way to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":733.8,"endTime":738.09,"body":"look at that situation, because"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":738.09,"endTime":743.34,"body":"it did affect you a lot. That's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":738.09,"endTime":743.34,"body":"amazing. And I also I even I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":743.34,"endTime":746.58,"body":"was, so I started to get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":743.34,"endTime":746.58,"body":"emotional when you were talking"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":746.58,"endTime":750.21,"body":"about that, because for a long"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":746.58,"endTime":750.21,"body":"time, that was my, my biggest"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":750.21,"endTime":755.34,"body":"fear for myself, that I would be"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":750.21,"endTime":755.34,"body":"in that position, and get"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":755.34,"endTime":759.75,"body":"married to a woman, and just"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":755.34,"endTime":759.75,"body":"have so much shame. And it's so,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":760.08,"endTime":762.33,"body":"I love listening to you talk"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":760.08,"endTime":762.33,"body":"about this, because it's so"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":762.33,"endTime":765.9,"body":"real. Like, the way I didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":762.33,"endTime":765.9,"body":"think I was gay, but I knew I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":765.9,"endTime":769.89,"body":"was. It doesn't make sense"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":765.9,"endTime":769.89,"body":"unless you've lived it. I don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":769.89,"endTime":775.11,"body":"know how to explain it. But I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":769.89,"endTime":775.11,"body":"was so afraid that if I ever"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":775.11,"endTime":777.9,"body":"found a woman that I thought I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":775.11,"endTime":777.9,"body":"might be able to make it work"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":777.9,"endTime":781.17,"body":"with, I would look at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":777.9,"endTime":781.17,"body":"pornography or have an affair or"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":781.17,"endTime":783.57,"body":"do something to hurt someone I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":781.17,"endTime":783.57,"body":"really loved."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":783.87,"endTime":787.08,"body":"Can I make a comment? So I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":783.87,"endTime":787.08,"body":"have a straight friend who would"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":787.08,"endTime":789.69,"body":"want me to say that they're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":787.08,"endTime":789.69,"body":"straight people who look at gay"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":789.69,"endTime":791.28,"body":"pornography who aren't gay. So."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":791.28,"endTime":793.38,"body":"Yeah, and I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":791.28,"endTime":793.38,"body":"there are. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":793.5,"endTime":795.42,"body":"So just want to validate"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":793.5,"endTime":795.42,"body":"that experience, if that's an"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":795.42,"endTime":799.23,"body":"experience someone's having. And"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":795.42,"endTime":799.23,"body":"also you took this, this, this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":799.23,"endTime":801.75,"body":"coming out experience, and you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":799.23,"endTime":801.75,"body":"didn't make it about you."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":801.78,"endTime":804.81,"body":"Yeah, that's how it's,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":801.78,"endTime":804.81,"body":"because it was about, in, like,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":804.81,"endTime":809.46,"body":"if any coming out is about you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":804.81,"endTime":809.46,"body":"like it's this. But you still"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":809.49,"endTime":810.72,"body":"oh, that's amazing."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":810.779,"endTime":812.849,"body":"And I think so many people"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":810.779,"endTime":812.849,"body":"make someone else's coming out"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":812.849,"endTime":816.719,"body":"about them. So how did you do"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":812.849,"endTime":816.719,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.71,"endTime":820.71,"body":"I always tend to talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.71,"endTime":820.71,"body":"about I told you guys that at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.71,"endTime":822.87,"body":"the beginning, I'm a bold action"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.71,"endTime":822.87,"body":"taker, and one of the things I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":822.87,"endTime":827.55,"body":"hold on to is loving boldly. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":822.87,"endTime":827.55,"body":"firmly believe that when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":827.55,"endTime":833.46,"body":"truly understand the gospel of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":827.55,"endTime":833.46,"body":"Jesus Christ, we come to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.46,"endTime":837.63,"body":"understand that it's about love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.46,"endTime":837.63,"body":"at the basis, at the very core."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":838.05,"endTime":842.91,"body":"This is my interpretation. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":838.05,"endTime":842.91,"body":"about loving people. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":842.91,"endTime":845.85,"body":"whole plan is that we come to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":842.91,"endTime":845.85,"body":"earth and learn to love people."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.03,"endTime":849.24,"body":"And if everybody was exactly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.03,"endTime":849.24,"body":"like us, if everybody thought,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.51,"endTime":852.72,"body":"the same way we did, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.51,"endTime":852.72,"body":"everybody presented the same way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.72,"endTime":858.9,"body":"we did. It'd be really easy to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.72,"endTime":858.9,"body":"just love people or not, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.96,"endTime":862.29,"body":"much easier to find, like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.96,"endTime":862.29,"body":"well, they're doing the things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":862.29,"endTime":865.83,"body":"they they should do, they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":862.29,"endTime":865.83,"body":"supposed to do. And so it's easy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.1,"endTime":869.91,"body":"to, to express that love. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.1,"endTime":869.91,"body":"that wouldn't help us learn to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.91,"endTime":873.57,"body":"grow. It wouldn't help us to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":869.91,"endTime":873.57,"body":"become who Heavenly Father wants"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":873.57,"endTime":877.02,"body":"us to become. So we need all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":873.57,"endTime":877.02,"body":"these different perspectives"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":877.05,"endTime":880.71,"body":"like this is their plan. This is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":877.05,"endTime":880.71,"body":"somebody else's journey. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":880.71,"endTime":884.28,"body":"it's just as much for us to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":880.71,"endTime":884.28,"body":"learn how to love people. We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.28,"endTime":888.42,"body":"can't come here and expect"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.28,"endTime":888.42,"body":"everybody to do the same thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":888.42,"endTime":891.42,"body":"to present the same way or we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":888.42,"endTime":891.42,"body":"don't learn anything. We don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":891.42,"endTime":895.41,"body":"grow. We don't get that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":891.42,"endTime":895.41,"body":"opportunity. So for me, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":895.41,"endTime":899.25,"body":"very much you know, I'm here to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":895.41,"endTime":899.25,"body":"learn how to love and I did have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.25,"endTime":901.86,"body":"an experience. Even I got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.25,"endTime":901.86,"body":"married where I mean, he told me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":901.86,"endTime":905.01,"body":"about the pornography a few days"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":901.86,"endTime":905.01,"body":"before we got married. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":906.09,"endTime":908.55,"body":"He's like, hey, I want to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":906.09,"endTime":908.55,"body":"honest with you. So this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":908.55,"endTime":911.31,"body":"actually helped because I knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":908.55,"endTime":911.31,"body":"he was trying to be honest with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.31,"endTime":914.97,"body":"me in the ways that he could."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.31,"endTime":914.97,"body":"And he told me about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":914.97,"endTime":917.25,"body":"pornography. And I spent the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":914.97,"endTime":917.25,"body":"weekend just kind of pondering,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":917.25,"endTime":919.53,"body":"I'm like, okay, this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":917.25,"endTime":919.53,"body":"something you know, that is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":919.53,"endTime":923.85,"body":"big deal. But does this change"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":919.53,"endTime":923.85,"body":"who he really is? Does this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.85,"endTime":927.42,"body":"change the man that I know he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.85,"endTime":927.42,"body":"is? Does it change how well he's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":927.42,"endTime":931.77,"body":"treated me? How will I believe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":927.42,"endTime":931.77,"body":"he's going to treat me and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":931.77,"endTime":934.86,"body":"just couldn't figure out any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":931.77,"endTime":934.86,"body":"reason that it changed anything,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.86,"endTime":937.83,"body":"except that he was being honest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":934.86,"endTime":937.83,"body":"with me. And I saw his shame in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.83,"endTime":942.51,"body":"that moment as well. I could see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.83,"endTime":942.51,"body":"it because he's telling me, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":942.51,"endTime":945.09,"body":"know, this is the thing I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":942.51,"endTime":945.09,"body":"always dreaded the most is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":945.09,"endTime":950.25,"body":"telling my wife that I had this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":945.09,"endTime":950.25,"body":"issue with pornography. And so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":950.25,"endTime":954.45,"body":"didn't want to add to that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":950.25,"endTime":954.45,"body":"shame. And so and I knew I still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":954.45,"endTime":957.72,"body":"felt very at peace that we get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":954.45,"endTime":957.72,"body":"married. And I had an experience"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":957.72,"endTime":961.29,"body":"in the temple where it was, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":957.72,"endTime":961.29,"body":"sealer directly told me this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":961.29,"endTime":963.48,"body":"the man I was supposed to marry"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":961.29,"endTime":963.48,"body":"and all these things, and I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.48,"endTime":966.18,"body":"felt like, you know, I, I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.48,"endTime":966.18,"body":"always gone back to that, that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":966.18,"endTime":968.19,"body":"knew this was the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":966.18,"endTime":968.19,"body":"decision, and that we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.19,"endTime":970.74,"body":"supposed to be a part of each"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.19,"endTime":970.74,"body":"other's lives. However that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":970.74,"endTime":973.17,"body":"looked. Not the way I thought it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":970.74,"endTime":973.17,"body":"would look."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":974.13,"endTime":976.71,"body":"Even now, like nine years"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":974.13,"endTime":976.71,"body":"after the divorce, you still"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":976.71,"endTime":977.37,"body":"feel that way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":977.58,"endTime":983.43,"body":"Oh, 100%. And I married"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":977.58,"endTime":983.43,"body":"a man who is very okay with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":983.43,"endTime":985.95,"body":"Steve still being a part of my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":983.43,"endTime":985.95,"body":"life. And that was kind of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.95,"endTime":988.89,"body":"thing when we got divorced. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.95,"endTime":988.89,"body":"told Steve, I said, I hope that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":988.89,"endTime":992.49,"body":"I marry somebody who's okay with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":988.89,"endTime":992.49,"body":"our relationship, because I want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":992.49,"endTime":997.8,"body":"you, I always want us to be able"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":992.49,"endTime":997.8,"body":"to be together in the same room"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":997.86,"endTime":1001.97,"body":"for Penny's, our daughter's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":997.86,"endTime":1001.97,"body":"events, her big life events, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.97,"endTime":1004.13,"body":"don't want her to ever think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.97,"endTime":1004.13,"body":"it's weird. I don't want her to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1004.13,"endTime":1008.33,"body":"ever be uncomfortable. I knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1004.13,"endTime":1008.33,"body":"when I stayed married to knowing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1008.33,"endTime":1010.13,"body":"you're gay, and then had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1008.33,"endTime":1010.13,"body":"daughter with you that this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1010.13,"endTime":1012.92,"body":"might be something that happens."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1010.13,"endTime":1012.92,"body":"And so now we have to figure out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.92,"endTime":1013.73,"body":"how it looks for us."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1013.93,"endTime":1017.08,"body":"Can we can I take it"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1013.93,"endTime":1017.08,"body":"back into that? He basically"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1017.11,"endTime":1020.29,"body":"he's outed to you. And then and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1017.11,"endTime":1020.29,"body":"then then at that point, you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1020.29,"endTime":1023.92,"body":"kind of like, ahead of him"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1020.29,"endTime":1023.92,"body":"because you're like, you're gay."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1023.92,"endTime":1027.94,"body":"And he's like, I'm not gay. So"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1023.92,"endTime":1027.94,"body":"during that interim, and then"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1027.94,"endTime":1031.87,"body":"also, going forward, decided to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1027.94,"endTime":1031.87,"body":"have a child like, what were"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1031.87,"endTime":1034.0,"body":"those, what was that like?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.23,"endTime":1037.54,"body":"It was an interesting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1035.23,"endTime":1037.54,"body":"time. And my husband always was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1037.54,"endTime":1043.18,"body":"like, what were you thinking?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1037.54,"endTime":1043.18,"body":"Like? Because at one point, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1043.18,"endTime":1045.97,"body":"that at the point, Steve came to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1043.18,"endTime":1045.97,"body":"terms with the fact he was gay,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1046.03,"endTime":1048.97,"body":"he was we were in the process of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1046.03,"endTime":1048.97,"body":"moving to Belize, he had we had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1048.97,"endTime":1050.11,"body":"sold everything we had."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1050.17,"endTime":1051.16,"body":"Wow, Why?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1051.82,"endTime":1053.89,"body":"He does Hotel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1051.82,"endTime":1053.89,"body":"Management. So we went and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1053.89,"endTime":1055.12,"body":"managed the resort down there."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1055.12,"endTime":1056.98,"body":"I would love to go to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1055.12,"endTime":1056.98,"body":"Belize and manage a hotel. No, I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1056.98,"endTime":1058.51,"body":"wouldn't want to do the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1056.98,"endTime":1058.51,"body":"managing, but I do want to go to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1058.51,"endTime":1058.78,"body":"Belize."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1058.81,"endTime":1063.22,"body":"Yeah, that was amazing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1058.81,"endTime":1063.22,"body":"And so he had left me some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.22,"endTime":1066.49,"body":"returns to do to Deseret Book."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1063.22,"endTime":1066.49,"body":"He's like, here's the receipt."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1066.49,"endTime":1069.01,"body":"Here's the stuff I need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1066.49,"endTime":1069.01,"body":"returned. And I'm looking at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1069.01,"endTime":1071.8,"body":"receipt as I'm standing and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1069.01,"endTime":1071.8,"body":"desert book. And it's all like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.98,"endTime":1077.71,"body":"homo, homo, homo. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.98,"endTime":1077.71,"body":"okay, he has come to terms with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1077.71,"endTime":1081.19,"body":"the fact he's gay. He hadn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1077.71,"endTime":1081.19,"body":"told me specifically, but I saw"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.28,"endTime":1083.56,"body":"and they were like workbooks,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.28,"endTime":1083.56,"body":"because I went and found it and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.56,"endTime":1086.71,"body":"I was like, Okay, what is this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.56,"endTime":1086.71,"body":"stuff? And I'm like, All right,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.71,"endTime":1090.04,"body":"I'm here, I am going to go pick"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.71,"endTime":1090.04,"body":"up some books for me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1090.43,"endTime":1094.12,"body":"So so he was returning"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1090.43,"endTime":1094.12,"body":"books from Deseret Book about"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1094.12,"endTime":1094.78,"body":"homosexuality."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1094.78,"endTime":1096.91,"body":"They were, he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1094.78,"endTime":1096.91,"body":"returning other stuff on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1096.91,"endTime":1100.21,"body":"receipt that had nothing to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1096.91,"endTime":1100.21,"body":"with homosexuality. On that same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1100.21,"endTime":1104.32,"body":"receipt was all of these things."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1100.21,"endTime":1104.32,"body":"That was about homosexuality"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1104.32,"endTime":1107.2,"body":"that his counselor had told him,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1104.32,"endTime":1107.2,"body":"go pick these up, take them with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1107.2,"endTime":1107.5,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1108.16,"endTime":1110.98,"body":"So if you're gonna buy"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1108.16,"endTime":1110.98,"body":"books about being gay, buy them"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1110.98,"endTime":1112.48,"body":"separately than the other things"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1110.98,"endTime":1112.48,"body":"you're buying."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1113.32,"endTime":1118.12,"body":"If you don't want your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1113.32,"endTime":1118.12,"body":"wife to know or yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1118.12,"endTime":1120.52,"body":"Steve's, like, maybe I did want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1118.12,"endTime":1120.52,"body":"you to know, maybe somewhere,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1120.52,"endTime":1123.4,"body":"subconsciously, I was just like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1120.52,"endTime":1123.4,"body":"oh, she'll see this and figure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1123.4,"endTime":1128.53,"body":"it out. So I called him he's in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1123.4,"endTime":1128.53,"body":"Belize I was home for three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1128.53,"endTime":1131.02,"body":"weeks getting things finished"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1128.53,"endTime":1131.02,"body":"up. And I'm reading all of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1131.02,"endTime":1135.85,"body":"books about people who have gone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1131.02,"endTime":1135.85,"body":"through similar situations where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.85,"endTime":1139.15,"body":"they were married in a mixed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.85,"endTime":1139.15,"body":"orientation, marriage, and how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.15,"endTime":1142.15,"body":"that went for them. And again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.15,"endTime":1142.15,"body":"there were a lot of tears during"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.15,"endTime":1145.57,"body":"that time of realizing he's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.15,"endTime":1145.57,"body":"probably going to have an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.57,"endTime":1149.89,"body":"affair. It's very likely, at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.57,"endTime":1149.89,"body":"least that he has an affair. If"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1149.89,"endTime":1152.89,"body":"he does it, it's very likely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1149.89,"endTime":1152.89,"body":"that we at least get divorced or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1152.89,"endTime":1156.25,"body":"we go through a separation at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1152.89,"endTime":1156.25,"body":"some time. And all of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1156.25,"endTime":1159.49,"body":"things that I'm processing and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1156.25,"endTime":1159.49,"body":"trying to decide, is this,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.7,"endTime":1164.05,"body":"something I can do, and I still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.7,"endTime":1164.05,"body":"just felt very at peace about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.05,"endTime":1170.77,"body":"it, and continue forward. And we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.05,"endTime":1170.77,"body":"had fun together. I mean, I and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1170.77,"endTime":1172.87,"body":"that's the thing I went back to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1170.77,"endTime":1172.87,"body":"I'm like, What am I missing in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1172.87,"endTime":1177.37,"body":"this marriage? Am I missing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1172.87,"endTime":1177.37,"body":"anything at this point, and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1177.37,"endTime":1180.43,"body":"didn't have a daughter yet or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1177.37,"endTime":1180.43,"body":"anything. And I'm like, I'm not."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1180.55,"endTime":1183.43,"body":"I'm happy. He takes really good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1180.55,"endTime":1183.43,"body":"care of me. He's very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1183.43,"endTime":1188.17,"body":"thoughtful. And I knew on some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1183.43,"endTime":1188.17,"body":"level, he needed me as well. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.17,"endTime":1191.47,"body":"I knew I was strong enough in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.17,"endTime":1191.47,"body":"who I was, and taking care of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.47,"endTime":1195.67,"body":"myself that I could, I could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.47,"endTime":1195.67,"body":"continue forward. So it sounds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1195.67,"endTime":1199.99,"body":"super nuts, but we kept going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1195.67,"endTime":1199.99,"body":"and I ended up getting pregnant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.99,"endTime":1204.91,"body":"in Belize and we had a baby down"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.99,"endTime":1204.91,"body":"there. And it was kind of crazy."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.21,"endTime":1208.12,"body":"But there was a there was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.21,"endTime":1208.12,"body":"peace about it the whole time."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1208.42,"endTime":1210.58,"body":"That's cool. It sounds"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1208.42,"endTime":1210.58,"body":"like you were optimistically"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1210.61,"endTime":1211.45,"body":"realistic."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.78,"endTime":1215.59,"body":"Yes. Like I knew, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.78,"endTime":1215.59,"body":"knew that there was a chance all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1215.59,"endTime":1217.87,"body":"of this could happen. I knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1215.59,"endTime":1217.87,"body":"that there was a chance I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.87,"endTime":1220.51,"body":"going to go through some really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.87,"endTime":1220.51,"body":"hard things by making this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1220.51,"endTime":1226.93,"body":"decision. And I realized that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1220.51,"endTime":1226.93,"body":"was okay with that. And I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.93,"endTime":1230.56,"body":"accepting my responsibility, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.93,"endTime":1230.56,"body":"that, that if I stayed married,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1231.04,"endTime":1234.58,"body":"I couldn't just put all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1231.04,"endTime":1234.58,"body":"blame on him. Because I like I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1234.58,"endTime":1238.12,"body":"said, I watched him fight for so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1234.58,"endTime":1238.12,"body":"many years. I mean, when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.12,"endTime":1241.81,"body":"lived in Belize, we would go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.12,"endTime":1241.81,"body":"every Sunday, and we would he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.81,"endTime":1246.13,"body":"would take roll of everybody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.81,"endTime":1246.13,"body":"that's in church. And after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1246.13,"endTime":1249.22,"body":"church, we would go visit every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1246.13,"endTime":1249.22,"body":"member that was not there to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1249.22,"endTime":1252.7,"body":"invite them to another meeting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1249.22,"endTime":1252.7,"body":"that night. And he, I mean, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.7,"endTime":1256.99,"body":"did everything we were he was so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.7,"endTime":1256.99,"body":"devoted in hopes that he would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1256.99,"endTime":1259.84,"body":"change this. And it broke my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1256.99,"endTime":1259.84,"body":"heart because I kept telling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1259.84,"endTime":1262.12,"body":"him, I'm like, you don't need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1259.84,"endTime":1262.12,"body":"change this about yourself. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.12,"endTime":1265.57,"body":"need to just embrace it, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.12,"endTime":1265.57,"body":"love this part of you. And years"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.57,"endTime":1267.58,"body":"down the road. He started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.57,"endTime":1267.58,"body":"getting more that way in our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1267.58,"endTime":1269.71,"body":"marriage, but it was it was hard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1267.58,"endTime":1269.71,"body":"for him to get there."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1270.56,"endTime":1273.26,"body":"So walk us through what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1270.56,"endTime":1273.26,"body":"happened. So you confronted him"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1273.29,"endTime":1275.78,"body":"about the pornography use you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1273.29,"endTime":1275.78,"body":"read these books about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1275.81,"endTime":1278.39,"body":"homosexuality? What were the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1275.81,"endTime":1278.39,"body":"conversations like with your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1278.39,"endTime":1281.21,"body":"husband once he was more okay"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1278.39,"endTime":1281.21,"body":"with it, and you guys were"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1281.21,"endTime":1281.93,"body":"actually talking about it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1282.77,"endTime":1285.47,"body":"We talked about all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1282.77,"endTime":1285.47,"body":"things including things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1285.5,"endTime":1288.2,"body":"what types of guys he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1285.5,"endTime":1288.2,"body":"attracted to. And if you saw a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1288.2,"endTime":1290.39,"body":"cute guy at the store, like he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1288.2,"endTime":1290.39,"body":"would nudge me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1291.62,"endTime":1293.66,"body":"So you're married to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1291.62,"endTime":1293.66,"body":"him? And he's like, that guy's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1293.66,"endTime":1294.86,"body":"hot. And you're like, Oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":1295.22,"endTime":1296.24,"body":"Sure. Cool."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1297.11,"endTime":1299.24,"body":"Do you have different"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1297.11,"endTime":1299.24,"body":"types?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1299.39,"endTime":1301.76,"body":"I mean, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1299.39,"endTime":1301.76,"body":"that I necessarily really have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.76,"endTime":1309.62,"body":"type. But anyway, we watched a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.76,"endTime":1309.62,"body":"lot of Channing Tatum movies,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1309.65,"endTime":1313.25,"body":"and some other guy he got into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1309.65,"endTime":1313.25,"body":"for a while, and we watched all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1313.25,"endTime":1314.15,"body":"of his movies."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1314.15,"endTime":1315.44,"body":"And you're not jealous"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1314.15,"endTime":1315.44,"body":"of them?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1315.66,"endTime":1319.59,"body":"No, there wasn't, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1315.66,"endTime":1319.59,"body":"was never about me. And I, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1319.59,"endTime":1322.68,"body":"you guys said, I think there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1319.59,"endTime":1322.68,"body":"this thing that we get in our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1322.68,"endTime":1327.15,"body":"heads that, and especially with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1322.68,"endTime":1327.15,"body":"pornography, and marriages, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1327.15,"endTime":1331.26,"body":"we get that it's about us that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1327.15,"endTime":1331.26,"body":"it's that they're doing this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1331.26,"endTime":1336.6,"body":"because there's some lack in us."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1331.26,"endTime":1336.6,"body":"And that is 99% of the time not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1336.6,"endTime":1339.81,"body":"the case. It's that there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1336.6,"endTime":1339.81,"body":"something in them that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1339.81,"endTime":1344.43,"body":"driving them to either need the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1339.81,"endTime":1344.43,"body":"pornography or those things,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.43,"endTime":1348.3,"body":"there's something that and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.43,"endTime":1348.3,"body":"obviously him being gay, I knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.3,"endTime":1352.35,"body":"had nothing to do with me. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.3,"endTime":1352.35,"body":"while it could have felt very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1352.35,"endTime":1356.28,"body":"personal and hurtful, I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1352.35,"endTime":1356.28,"body":"made a conscious decision to not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1356.31,"endTime":1359.55,"body":"let that not let me go there to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1356.31,"endTime":1359.55,"body":"not let it be about me. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.55,"endTime":1360.81,"body":"wasn't about me."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1360.96,"endTime":1364.83,"body":"So how did you deal"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1360.96,"endTime":1364.83,"body":"with like the incongruence of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1364.83,"endTime":1367.35,"body":"attraction, I'm trying to figure"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1364.83,"endTime":1367.35,"body":"out how to say that like, like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1367.35,"endTime":1369.84,"body":"that you are attracted to him"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1367.35,"endTime":1369.84,"body":"sexually, but he wasn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1369.84,"endTime":1370.89,"body":"attracted to you sexually."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.92,"endTime":1373.92,"body":"So when we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1370.92,"endTime":1373.92,"body":"married, he was attracted to me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.92,"endTime":1378.18,"body":"sexually. Like we had a good sex"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1373.92,"endTime":1378.18,"body":"life. And people I mean, I get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1378.18,"endTime":1379.17,"body":"asked that all the time."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1379.29,"endTime":1381.0,"body":"You do not have to"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1379.29,"endTime":1381.0,"body":"share any, like..."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1381.0,"endTime":1385.02,"body":"you're good. I won't go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1381.0,"endTime":1385.02,"body":"much beyond that. But all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1385.08,"endTime":1388.68,"body":"aspects of our marriage, we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1385.08,"endTime":1388.68,"body":"very content and and part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.89,"endTime":1391.77,"body":"part of what I believe,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1388.89,"endTime":1391.77,"body":"contributed to the fact that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.77,"endTime":1394.74,"body":"had a good sex life is that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.77,"endTime":1394.74,"body":"were so emotionally connected,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1394.98,"endTime":1397.71,"body":"because there is something about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1394.98,"endTime":1397.71,"body":"the emotional side of things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.74,"endTime":1401.37,"body":"that can lead to a good sex"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.74,"endTime":1401.37,"body":"life. And he's always said, He's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1401.37,"endTime":1405.24,"body":"like, I've never been attracted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1401.37,"endTime":1405.24,"body":"to another woman. You were the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1405.24,"endTime":1407.37,"body":"only one when I met you. There"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1405.24,"endTime":1407.37,"body":"was something about you that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.37,"endTime":1412.29,"body":"was like, who is this girl? I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.37,"endTime":1412.29,"body":"need to know her. And so that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.29,"endTime":1416.73,"body":"kind of held on until he had the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.29,"endTime":1416.73,"body":"affair. And then he was, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1416.73,"endTime":1419.73,"body":"like, blatantly obvious, he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1416.73,"endTime":1419.73,"body":"not attracted to me any more."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.27,"endTime":1424.65,"body":"And that's when it really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.27,"endTime":1424.65,"body":"that's when things got hard. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.07,"endTime":1428.13,"body":"I thought I would be okay with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.07,"endTime":1428.13,"body":"it. him not being attracted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1428.13,"endTime":1430.83,"body":"me because we even dated again"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1428.13,"endTime":1430.83,"body":"after we got divorced as nuts as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.83,"endTime":1431.37,"body":"that is."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1431.43,"endTime":1433.2,"body":"What?!? Say more about"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1431.43,"endTime":1433.2,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.69,"endTime":1437.71,"body":"So yeah. And, and that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.69,"endTime":1437.71,"body":"for me was really hard. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1437.71,"endTime":1440.38,"body":"Steve, putting me in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1437.71,"endTime":1440.38,"body":"situation. It was hard for him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1440.71,"endTime":1443.35,"body":"to feel like I could have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1440.71,"endTime":1443.35,"body":"somebody that was attracted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1443.35,"endTime":1447.43,"body":"me. And he was keeping me from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1443.35,"endTime":1447.43,"body":"that. He was keeping me from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1447.43,"endTime":1452.17,"body":"having somebody. So yeah, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1447.43,"endTime":1452.17,"body":"dated again. He so he had an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1452.17,"endTime":1455.95,"body":"affair. He moved in with the guy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1452.17,"endTime":1455.95,"body":"right after I left because we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1455.95,"endTime":1458.23,"body":"were living in Oklahoma at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1455.95,"endTime":1458.23,"body":"time. And I was like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1458.23,"endTime":1460.72,"body":"know anybody here. I need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1458.23,"endTime":1460.72,"body":"support. I moved home to Boise."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1461.29,"endTime":1462.91,"body":"You went from Belize to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1461.29,"endTime":1462.91,"body":"Oklahoma?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":1462.94,"endTime":1465.19,"body":"We went Belize,"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":1462.94,"endTime":1465.19,"body":"Colorado, Oklahoma."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1466.51,"endTime":1470.5,"body":"You took it in stages."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1466.51,"endTime":1470.5,"body":"It's probably good that you had"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1470.5,"endTime":1473.29,"body":"Colorado before Oklahoma."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1473.29,"endTime":1474.34,"body":"Oklahoma is not Belize."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.91,"endTime":1478.6,"body":"No, it was not. I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.91,"endTime":1478.6,"body":"always like, I never want to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.6,"endTime":1481.15,"body":"back to Oklahoma, but I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.6,"endTime":1481.15,"body":"probably be fine with Oklahoma."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1482.53,"endTime":1486.49,"body":"Yeah, so he had a partner that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1482.53,"endTime":1486.49,"body":"moved in right after I left, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.49,"endTime":1489.67,"body":"man he had an affair with great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.49,"endTime":1489.67,"body":"guy super nice. And I was glad"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1489.67,"endTime":1492.04,"body":"because I knew Steve was in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1489.67,"endTime":1492.04,"body":"good place. So I was glad"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1492.04,"endTime":1496.78,"body":"somebody was there to kind of I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1492.04,"endTime":1496.78,"body":"went and stayed with them one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1496.78,"endTime":1499.36,"body":"weekend. It was all weird."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1496.78,"endTime":1499.36,"body":"There's so many weird stories."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1500.45,"endTime":1502.31,"body":"But it's so juicy."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1502.0,"endTime":1506.56,"body":"Yeah. But then Steve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1502.0,"endTime":1506.56,"body":"kept saying, Well, I think I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1506.56,"endTime":1509.11,"body":"gonna move to Boise. Like he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1506.56,"endTime":1509.11,"body":"kept bringing it up. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.11,"endTime":1511.54,"body":"called him one night because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.11,"endTime":1511.54,"body":"was dating. We're divorced, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1511.54,"endTime":1514.15,"body":"was dating. I said, Listen, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1511.54,"endTime":1514.15,"body":"falling in love with somebody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.15,"endTime":1518.53,"body":"else. If you are moving to Boise"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1514.15,"endTime":1518.53,"body":"for me, you better do it now."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1518.65,"endTime":1521.74,"body":"Like, come home and do it now."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1518.65,"endTime":1521.74,"body":"And he called me back the next"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1521.74,"endTime":1527.14,"body":"morning and he said, I'm coming"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1521.74,"endTime":1527.14,"body":"back. I can't leave the church."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.14,"endTime":1531.52,"body":"I can't leave you. I just too,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.14,"endTime":1531.52,"body":"it's all too muddled. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1531.55,"endTime":1535.63,"body":"okay. And I said, Okay, than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1531.55,"endTime":1535.63,"body":"quit your job and come home. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1535.63,"endTime":1539.02,"body":"he said, Okay, I'm quitting. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1535.63,"endTime":1539.02,"body":"the day he quit, a job opened up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1539.02,"endTime":1541.27,"body":"in Boise with the same company"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1539.02,"endTime":1541.27,"body":"and they transferred him."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1541.51,"endTime":1544.0,"body":"Whoa. So this was meant to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1541.51,"endTime":1544.0,"body":"be."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1544.45,"endTime":1549.49,"body":"The conversations y'all"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1544.45,"endTime":1549.49,"body":"have, like, the the bold"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1549.49,"endTime":1552.31,"body":"conversations, that's really"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1549.49,"endTime":1552.31,"body":"impressive."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1552.84,"endTime":1555.09,"body":"I always tell people,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1552.84,"endTime":1555.09,"body":"I'm like, you need to have hard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1555.09,"endTime":1558.99,"body":"conversations, but you need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1555.09,"endTime":1558.99,"body":"know what it is you're feeling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1559.02,"endTime":1562.77,"body":"and what it is you kind of want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1559.02,"endTime":1562.77,"body":"out of that before you go into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1562.77,"endTime":1566.22,"body":"it. And also think somewhat of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1562.77,"endTime":1566.22,"body":"the other person's perspective"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1566.22,"endTime":1570.57,"body":"going into it how they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1566.22,"endTime":1570.57,"body":"feeling. But I don't shy away"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.57,"endTime":1573.48,"body":"from those conversations."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.57,"endTime":1573.48,"body":"Because Brenee Brown always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.48,"endTime":1578.07,"body":"says, clear is kind and unclear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1573.48,"endTime":1578.07,"body":"is unkind. And I firmly believe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1578.07,"endTime":1581.85,"body":"that that if I can be clear,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1578.07,"endTime":1581.85,"body":"then we can have a good, kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1581.85,"endTime":1582.57,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1582.63,"endTime":1585.18,"body":"Yeah, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1582.63,"endTime":1585.18,"body":"remarkable how you are aware of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1585.18,"endTime":1587.85,"body":"what you need and your feelings"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1585.18,"endTime":1587.85,"body":"and then your courage to express"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1587.85,"endTime":1588.3,"body":"those things."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1588.3,"endTime":1589.02,"body":"And communicate them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1589.02,"endTime":1593.19,"body":"Yeah, it is scary. Like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1589.02,"endTime":1593.19,"body":"I, I know, it's scary. I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.19,"endTime":1595.56,"body":"felt those feelings. And there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1593.19,"endTime":1595.56,"body":"still conversations that I know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1595.56,"endTime":1598.83,"body":"I need to have right now that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1595.56,"endTime":1598.83,"body":"are scary, but I need to know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.83,"endTime":1602.43,"body":"I'm ready to have them. So it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.83,"endTime":1602.43,"body":"a very real thing. But yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1602.43,"endTime":1605.97,"body":"he moved back and we dated for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1602.43,"endTime":1605.97,"body":"six months. And it was..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1606.18,"endTime":1609.51,"body":"And you had Penny."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1606.18,"endTime":1609.51,"body":"She's like an infant."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.51,"endTime":1611.64,"body":"We had Penny. She's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.51,"endTime":1611.64,"body":"two. She was two when we got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1611.64,"endTime":1615.03,"body":"divorced. terrible twos. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1611.64,"endTime":1615.03,"body":"she's always been a really good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1615.03,"endTime":1617.46,"body":"kid. I always say Heavenly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1615.03,"endTime":1617.46,"body":"Father sent us a really easy kid"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.46,"endTime":1622.02,"body":"because he knew enough stuff to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.46,"endTime":1622.02,"body":"go through."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1622.08,"endTime":1623.28,"body":"She makes great bracelets."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":1623.49,"endTime":1625.08,"body":"She does make"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":1623.49,"endTime":1625.08,"body":"great bracelets,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1625.11,"endTime":1628.77,"body":"How much did prayer"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1625.11,"endTime":1628.77,"body":"play into these decisions that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1628.77,"endTime":1629.31,"body":"you were making?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1629.63,"endTime":1635.18,"body":"So much. And I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1629.63,"endTime":1635.18,"body":"firmly believe that, through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1635.18,"endTime":1639.5,"body":"prayer, and faith, we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1635.18,"endTime":1639.5,"body":"understand a lot. And I think we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1639.5,"endTime":1644.3,"body":"question our own intuition,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1639.5,"endTime":1644.3,"body":"which I firmly believe is just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1644.42,"endTime":1647.63,"body":"God talking to us, Heavenly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1644.42,"endTime":1647.63,"body":"Father speaking to us, the Holy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1647.63,"endTime":1651.02,"body":"Ghost. And I feel like we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1647.63,"endTime":1651.02,"body":"question that so often. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1651.02,"endTime":1655.91,"body":"we stop hearing it, which we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1651.02,"endTime":1655.91,"body":"taught in church. But really, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1655.91,"endTime":1658.28,"body":"just comes down to listening to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1655.91,"endTime":1658.28,"body":"yourself and feeling your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1658.28,"endTime":1661.55,"body":"feelings, embrace all of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1658.28,"endTime":1661.55,"body":"feelings, process them, journal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1661.55,"endTime":1665.81,"body":"about them and understand them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1661.55,"endTime":1665.81,"body":"And it will get you to where you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.81,"endTime":1670.97,"body":"need to go. And I firmly believe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.81,"endTime":1670.97,"body":"that we negate our own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1671.03,"endTime":1675.38,"body":"intuition, and we question it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1671.03,"endTime":1675.38,"body":"and we hash it out, way more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1675.38,"endTime":1678.74,"body":"than we need to instead of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1675.38,"endTime":1678.74,"body":"listening, pondering, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1678.86,"endTime":1682.01,"body":"when you know, act, act when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1678.86,"endTime":1682.01,"body":"feel it's right."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1682.34,"endTime":1685.31,"body":"So this might be hard to"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1682.34,"endTime":1685.31,"body":"answer in retrospect, but when"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1685.31,"endTime":1687.71,"body":"you decided to like ask your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1685.31,"endTime":1687.71,"body":"husband like, Hey, if you're in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1687.71,"endTime":1689.96,"body":"this, like, or your ex husband"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1687.71,"endTime":1689.96,"body":"like, but come, let's try this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1689.96,"endTime":1692.48,"body":"again. Let's date was that like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1689.96,"endTime":1692.48,"body":"a fear-based thing? Like I'm"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1692.48,"endTime":1694.94,"body":"afraid to lose him? Or is that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1692.48,"endTime":1694.94,"body":"like a faith-based thing? Like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1694.94,"endTime":1697.22,"body":"what like, where were those"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1694.94,"endTime":1697.22,"body":"desires to try again, coming"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1697.22,"endTime":1697.55,"body":"from?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1697.84,"endTime":1702.1,"body":"It was based in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1697.84,"endTime":1702.1,"body":"fact that I had made a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1702.1,"endTime":1706.72,"body":"commitment to a marriage. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1702.1,"endTime":1706.72,"body":"wanted to make sure we had made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.72,"endTime":1710.56,"body":"the right choice. And putting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.72,"endTime":1710.56,"body":"another six months or a year"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1710.56,"endTime":1714.13,"body":"towards knowing for sure that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1710.56,"endTime":1714.13,"body":"had made the right decision was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1714.13,"endTime":1717.91,"body":"worth it. It was worth it to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1714.13,"endTime":1717.91,"body":"both of us to explore that and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1717.91,"endTime":1721.63,"body":"make sure we knew where we were."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1717.91,"endTime":1721.63,"body":"So we we literally went back to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1721.63,"endTime":1725.92,"body":"dating again. I was I'm I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1721.63,"endTime":1725.92,"body":"ridiculously straight edge. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.92,"endTime":1728.14,"body":"I was like, Listen, we're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.92,"endTime":1728.14,"body":"married, there's no sex. There's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1728.14,"endTime":1731.26,"body":"no any of these other things."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1728.14,"endTime":1731.26,"body":"We're not exploring those. This"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.26,"endTime":1734.29,"body":"is back to dating. Like before"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1731.26,"endTime":1734.29,"body":"we were married."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1734.29,"endTime":1735.07,"body":"Pick me up at six."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1737.02,"endTime":1737.74,"body":"Meet my parents."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1739.58,"endTime":1742.46,"body":"And honestly, my whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1739.58,"endTime":1742.46,"body":"family's getting to know him on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1742.46,"endTime":1746.51,"body":"a new level at this point. We're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1742.46,"endTime":1746.51,"body":"all rehashing this relationship."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1746.51,"endTime":1750.08,"body":"I'm sure my parents were dieing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1746.51,"endTime":1750.08,"body":"that I dated him again. I know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1750.08,"endTime":1755.99,"body":"it probably kill them. But we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1750.08,"endTime":1755.99,"body":"did it. And yeah, it was just an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1755.99,"endTime":1758.72,"body":"interesting process. And I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1755.99,"endTime":1758.72,"body":"Steve needed that clarity. We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.72,"endTime":1763.67,"body":"both needed that clarity of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.72,"endTime":1763.67,"body":"knowing it's okay to be done."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1763.82,"endTime":1767.75,"body":"Like we can create a new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1763.82,"endTime":1767.75,"body":"relationship that works for us."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1768.02,"endTime":1770.12,"body":"And that's what we have. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1768.02,"endTime":1770.12,"body":"always tell people he's like my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.12,"endTime":1774.71,"body":"brother. Cuz I get people who,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.12,"endTime":1774.71,"body":"who say, well, you must still be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1774.71,"endTime":1777.14,"body":"in love with him or he's in love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1774.71,"endTime":1777.14,"body":"with you. And I'm like, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1777.14,"endTime":1781.16,"body":"really not. He really just feels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1777.14,"endTime":1781.16,"body":"like my brother. I care and love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1781.16,"endTime":1785.69,"body":"him that deeply. But he is not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1781.16,"endTime":1785.69,"body":"i'm not attracted to him on any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1785.69,"endTime":1789.56,"body":"level. And I cannot imagine"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1785.69,"endTime":1789.56,"body":"being married to him again. But,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.95,"endTime":1792.92,"body":"but he is a part of my life. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.95,"endTime":1792.92,"body":"he's somebody I care deeply"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1792.92,"endTime":1793.22,"body":"about."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1793.25,"endTime":1797.0,"body":"Yeah, I really admire just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1793.25,"endTime":1797.0,"body":"your way of approaching all this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1797.0,"endTime":1800.18,"body":"like I think about when I was 24"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1797.0,"endTime":1800.18,"body":"and I, and I, that girl I had"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1800.18,"endTime":1802.01,"body":"broken up with me, the one who"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1800.18,"endTime":1802.01,"body":"didn't miss me when she was on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1802.01,"endTime":1807.05,"body":"vacation. And I graduated from"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1802.01,"endTime":1807.05,"body":"BYU and went to Mexico for the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1807.05,"endTime":1810.02,"body":"summer. And I like missed her so"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1807.05,"endTime":1810.02,"body":"much. Like, I missed her, missed"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1810.02,"endTime":1813.38,"body":"her, missed her. And I, like"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1810.02,"endTime":1813.38,"body":"would email her and she'd like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1813.38,"endTime":1815.87,"body":"politely respond. But like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1813.38,"endTime":1815.87,"body":"obviously, it was like keeping"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1815.87,"endTime":1818.39,"body":"me at arm's length. Then when I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1815.87,"endTime":1818.39,"body":"came back, I like really wanted,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1818.39,"endTime":1821.27,"body":"like, try and get back together"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1818.39,"endTime":1821.27,"body":"with her. And then I had this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1821.27,"endTime":1824.0,"body":"moment, where I was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1821.27,"endTime":1824.0,"body":"watching a movie and like it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1824.03,"endTime":1826.22,"body":"like this very strong prompting"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1824.03,"endTime":1826.22,"body":"came and was like, if you really"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1826.22,"endTime":1829.28,"body":"care about her, you'll just let"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1826.22,"endTime":1829.28,"body":"her go. Like, you won't hold on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1829.28,"endTime":1831.62,"body":"to this anymore. But a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1829.28,"endTime":1831.62,"body":"what I was doing was because I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1831.62,"endTime":1835.28,"body":"was afraid. Like, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1831.62,"endTime":1835.28,"body":"afraid of being alone. Like, it"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1835.28,"endTime":1837.2,"body":"sounds like you weren't acting"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":1835.28,"endTime":1837.2,"body":"out of fear."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1837.36,"endTime":1840.63,"body":"I wasn't afraid, I knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1837.36,"endTime":1840.63,"body":"I would be okay. And that's one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.63,"endTime":1844.17,"body":"of the things I felt through all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1840.63,"endTime":1844.17,"body":"of this is I knew I would be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1844.17,"endTime":1848.58,"body":"okay. And I also allowed myself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1844.17,"endTime":1848.58,"body":"the time to process and to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1848.58,"endTime":1852.0,"body":"understand and to not diminish"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1848.58,"endTime":1852.0,"body":"those feelings, but to embrace"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1852.0,"endTime":1855.42,"body":"them, because I, I had to feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1852.0,"endTime":1855.42,"body":"them. This man had had an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.42,"endTime":1860.19,"body":"affair. He left me for a man."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1855.42,"endTime":1860.19,"body":"And it was okay. It was okay"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1860.19,"endTime":1864.18,"body":"that I was sad, was okay that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1860.19,"endTime":1864.18,"body":"now had to rehash my whole life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1864.18,"endTime":1867.15,"body":"and rethink what I thought it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1864.18,"endTime":1867.15,"body":"was going to be. And also make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.15,"endTime":1870.0,"body":"it work for me. The things I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.15,"endTime":1870.0,"body":"scared of, is how it would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1870.0,"endTime":1873.63,"body":"impact my daughter. And there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1870.0,"endTime":1873.63,"body":"was at one point that I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1873.63,"endTime":1877.44,"body":"sitting there is a really weird"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1873.63,"endTime":1877.44,"body":"situation, how we got here, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1877.65,"endTime":1880.53,"body":"I was in a hotel room, Steph and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1877.65,"endTime":1880.53,"body":"Penny were napping on the bed,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1880.77,"endTime":1883.95,"body":"and I was reading books, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1880.77,"endTime":1883.95,"body":"just had this very strong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.95,"endTime":1887.16,"body":"feeling of knowing that my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.95,"endTime":1887.16,"body":"daughter was going to be okay."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.73,"endTime":1890.01,"body":"And everything was going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.73,"endTime":1890.01,"body":"fine there. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1890.01,"endTime":1894.66,"body":"okay, we, we're gonna be fine."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1890.01,"endTime":1894.66,"body":"We're gonna figure this out. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.66,"endTime":1898.68,"body":"I firmly believe that Penny, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.66,"endTime":1898.68,"body":"mean, she's baptized, she's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.68,"endTime":1903.21,"body":"being raised in the church. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.68,"endTime":1903.21,"body":"she also has this whole other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1903.21,"endTime":1908.04,"body":"view of life that she gets to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1903.21,"endTime":1908.04,"body":"experience with her dad. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1908.04,"endTime":1910.59,"body":"just always think this girl is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1908.04,"endTime":1910.59,"body":"going to know how to love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.59,"endTime":1914.58,"body":"people, and how to embrace"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.59,"endTime":1914.58,"body":"others, and she's going to be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1914.58,"endTime":1917.46,"body":"force for good. And that makes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1914.58,"endTime":1917.46,"body":"me super excited. But I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.46,"endTime":1919.68,"body":"also, the other things that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.46,"endTime":1919.68,"body":"was worried about was like, I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1919.68,"endTime":1921.99,"body":"been a stay at home mom. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1919.68,"endTime":1921.99,"body":"that was my plan. I wanted to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.99,"endTime":1924.6,"body":"home with her during those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.99,"endTime":1924.6,"body":"little years. So there were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1924.6,"endTime":1926.85,"body":"things like that, that I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1924.6,"endTime":1926.85,"body":"afraid of, but it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1926.85,"endTime":1931.71,"body":"necessarily about losing my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1926.85,"endTime":1931.71,"body":"husband. And I also realized I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1931.71,"endTime":1934.08,"body":"could still have a relationship"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1931.71,"endTime":1934.08,"body":"with Him, which was really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.08,"endTime":1937.02,"body":"rethinking the whole divorce"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.08,"endTime":1937.02,"body":"process, because people don't..."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1937.05,"endTime":1939.06,"body":"That's what I was gonna"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1937.05,"endTime":1939.06,"body":"say, it seems like it didn't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1939.06,"endTime":1941.49,"body":"work for you. So you just like"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1939.06,"endTime":1941.49,"body":"scrapped the rulebook. And we're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1941.49,"endTime":1944.01,"body":"like, let's build something that"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1941.49,"endTime":1944.01,"body":"works for us and our weird"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1944.01,"endTime":1947.46,"body":"situation. Like, let's take what"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1944.01,"endTime":1947.46,"body":"we know, take the existing love"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1947.46,"endTime":1950.13,"body":"we have and put a structure"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1947.46,"endTime":1950.13,"body":"under it that works, even if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":1950.13,"endTime":1951.09,"body":"people think it's weird."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1951.0,"endTime":1954.69,"body":"Yeah. And be open to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1951.0,"endTime":1954.69,"body":"having conversations about how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.69,"endTime":1957.24,"body":"that's going to look for us."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.69,"endTime":1957.24,"body":"Because we haven't done it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1957.24,"endTime":1959.88,"body":"before. And neither of us know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1957.24,"endTime":1959.88,"body":"what we're doing. We're gonna"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1959.88,"endTime":1962.79,"body":"make mistakes, and to give each"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1959.88,"endTime":1962.79,"body":"other grace in those mistakes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1962.79,"endTime":1966.78,"body":"and say, Hey, this really made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1962.79,"endTime":1966.78,"body":"me uncomfortable. We need to not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.78,"endTime":1969.66,"body":"do that, or at least not right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.78,"endTime":1969.66,"body":"now. This isn't, cool right now."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.66,"endTime":1972.48,"body":"Maybe we can have these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1969.66,"endTime":1972.48,"body":"conversations later. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.54,"endTime":1975.69,"body":"honestly, what we encourage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1972.54,"endTime":1975.69,"body":"people to do is we're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1975.69,"endTime":1979.53,"body":"telling you to do things like we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1975.69,"endTime":1979.53,"body":"did. I firmly believe, believe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1979.53,"endTime":1982.83,"body":"people can make mixed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1979.53,"endTime":1982.83,"body":"orientation marriages work. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.83,"endTime":1986.85,"body":"had a wonderful marriage for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.83,"endTime":1986.85,"body":"seven years. I, we were so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.85,"endTime":1990.69,"body":"connected. I don't believe it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.85,"endTime":1990.69,"body":"for everybody, though. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1990.69,"endTime":1994.14,"body":"also believe that having a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1990.69,"endTime":1994.14,"body":"co-parent that you can have over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1994.14,"endTime":1997.44,"body":"for Sunday dinner and host a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1994.14,"endTime":1997.44,"body":"podcast with and who works for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1997.71,"endTime":2003.14,"body":"Steve works for my for my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1997.71,"endTime":2003.14,"body":"husband,  like, like, that's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.14,"endTime":2005.33,"body":"going to work for everybody. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.14,"endTime":2005.33,"body":"that's okay, we have a different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2005.33,"endTime":2009.14,"body":"situation, with my husband's ex,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2005.33,"endTime":2009.14,"body":"a completely different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2009.14,"endTime":2011.81,"body":"situation. And so we just really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2009.14,"endTime":2011.81,"body":"encourage people to figure out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.81,"endTime":2016.1,"body":"what works for you. You don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.81,"endTime":2016.1,"body":"have to fit in to some mold of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2016.1,"endTime":2021.11,"body":"how this looks. And I feel like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2016.1,"endTime":2021.11,"body":"you guys understand that. Steve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2021.11,"endTime":2024.56,"body":"understands that, like we get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2021.11,"endTime":2024.56,"body":"it, you need to figure out who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2024.56,"endTime":2028.34,"body":"you were created to be and lean"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2024.56,"endTime":2028.34,"body":"into that. Embrace it fully."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2028.85,"endTime":2029.6,"body":"Beautiful."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2029.63,"endTime":2031.7,"body":"So Jessica, when are you"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2029.63,"endTime":2031.7,"body":"writing your book, just feel"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2031.7,"endTime":2033.23,"body":"your feelings and live your"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2031.7,"endTime":2033.23,"body":"life."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2034.01,"endTime":2037.07,"body":"There you go. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2034.01,"endTime":2037.07,"body":"coming. I keep, when I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.07,"endTime":2040.13,"body":"coming today, I was like, man, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2037.07,"endTime":2040.13,"body":"need to talk to these guys about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2040.16,"endTime":2043.7,"body":"book writing and how you do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2040.16,"endTime":2043.7,"body":"that, because it's so inspiring."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2043.7,"endTime":2047.54,"body":"And it's such a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2043.7,"endTime":2047.54,"body":"opportunity that you give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2047.54,"endTime":2048.08,"body":"people."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2048.11,"endTime":2050.33,"body":"You know what you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2048.11,"endTime":2050.33,"body":"good at? You aren't good at"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2050.33,"endTime":2054.11,"body":"feeling multiple emotions at the"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2050.33,"endTime":2054.11,"body":"same time, even if they're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2054.11,"endTime":2057.59,"body":"supposed to be contradictory."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2054.11,"endTime":2057.59,"body":"You're a lot like, you're you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2057.59,"endTime":2061.22,"body":"good at giving them space and"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2057.59,"endTime":2061.22,"body":"realizing that you can. That's"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2061.22,"endTime":2064.79,"body":"cool. That's a really, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2061.22,"endTime":2064.79,"body":"keep noticing that you're like I"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2064.79,"endTime":2068.78,"body":"was, I would like you were happy"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2064.79,"endTime":2068.78,"body":"and sad and faithful and fearful"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2068.78,"endTime":2073.43,"body":"all at the same time. And not"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2068.78,"endTime":2073.43,"body":"like pushing any feeling away,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2073.43,"endTime":2075.59,"body":"even if it hurt or was"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2073.43,"endTime":2075.59,"body":"confusing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2075.75,"endTime":2078.69,"body":"Yeah. That's where we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2075.75,"endTime":2078.69,"body":"learn. That's where we get to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.69,"endTime":2081.87,"body":"learn about ourselves. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.69,"endTime":2081.87,"body":"firmly believe that's when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2081.87,"endTime":2085.59,"body":"get to understand what it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2081.87,"endTime":2085.59,"body":"Heavenly Father would have us do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2085.62,"endTime":2088.65,"body":"what our heavenly parents want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2085.62,"endTime":2088.65,"body":"for us, who they created us to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2088.65,"endTime":2092.43,"body":"be. And when we embrace that, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2088.65,"endTime":2092.43,"body":"just get to hear all those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2092.43,"endTime":2094.68,"body":"feelings a little more clearly."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2092.43,"endTime":2094.68,"body":"We get to feel them more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2094.68,"endTime":2098.16,"body":"clearly. There's nothing wrong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2094.68,"endTime":2098.16,"body":"with feeling any of the feelings"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2098.43,"endTime":2101.55,"body":"and they can coexist. It's so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2098.43,"endTime":2101.55,"body":"weird people when I go through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2101.55,"endTime":2104.13,"body":"my divorce, like, why do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2101.55,"endTime":2104.13,"body":"have? How do you have so much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2104.13,"endTime":2107.58,"body":"peace around you and like, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2104.13,"endTime":2107.58,"body":"don't just have peace right now."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.06,"endTime":2112.53,"body":"Like, there's a lot of anger and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.06,"endTime":2112.53,"body":"upset, like, I'm upset, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2112.53,"endTime":2117.75,"body":"sad. I'm really sad. But I also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2112.53,"endTime":2117.75,"body":"know there are things in my life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2117.75,"endTime":2119.73,"body":"that are really good and that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2117.75,"endTime":2119.73,"body":"get to embrace and find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2119.73,"endTime":2122.1,"body":"happiness and joy. And so I get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2119.73,"endTime":2122.1,"body":"I get to have all of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2122.1,"endTime":2123.75,"body":"things I can, I can hold it all."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2124.11,"endTime":2126.39,"body":"Yeah, and that's such a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2124.11,"endTime":2126.39,"body":"mature way to be, to be like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2126.39,"endTime":2129.75,"body":"hold all these things at once."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2126.39,"endTime":2129.75,"body":"So what I'm sensing from you is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2129.75,"endTime":2133.86,"body":"like, there's no bitterness."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2129.75,"endTime":2133.86,"body":"There's not like, I wish things"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2133.86,"endTime":2137.46,"body":"had been different, just like a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2133.86,"endTime":2137.46,"body":"gratitude for the journey. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2137.46,"endTime":2139.53,"body":"that's just how you are"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2137.46,"endTime":2139.53,"body":"naturally. But if there's"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2139.53,"endTime":2142.98,"body":"someone who like wants to be"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2139.53,"endTime":2142.98,"body":"that way, how do you do that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2143.26,"endTime":2147.01,"body":"uh, you have to start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2143.26,"endTime":2147.01,"body":"doing some deep diving into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2147.04,"endTime":2150.82,"body":"getting to know yourself. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2147.04,"endTime":2150.82,"body":"always say I teach classes about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2150.82,"endTime":2155.38,"body":"being bold. And for me that is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2150.82,"endTime":2155.38,"body":"comes down to getting to know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2155.5,"endTime":2159.94,"body":"who you are, what you want,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2155.5,"endTime":2159.94,"body":"where your pain points are in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2159.94,"endTime":2164.44,"body":"life right now. And, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2159.94,"endTime":2164.44,"body":"embracing those and figuring out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2164.44,"endTime":2167.47,"body":"and taking ownership of them,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2164.44,"endTime":2167.47,"body":"like take ownership of your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2167.47,"endTime":2170.98,"body":"life, because I could have just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2167.47,"endTime":2170.98,"body":"said this was all Steve's fault,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2171.28,"endTime":2174.01,"body":"and thrown it all on him. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2171.28,"endTime":2174.01,"body":"all these things. In fact,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2174.01,"endTime":2176.02,"body":"somebody kept telling me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2174.01,"endTime":2176.02,"body":"somebody very close to me, after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2176.02,"endTime":2178.27,"body":"we got divorced, kept saying,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2176.02,"endTime":2178.27,"body":"I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2178.27,"endTime":2181.21,"body":"said, you have to stop telling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2178.27,"endTime":2181.21,"body":"me that you're sorry. Because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2181.21,"endTime":2185.2,"body":"knew what I was, I knew I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2181.21,"endTime":2185.2,"body":"married to a gay man. I knew I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2185.2,"endTime":2188.17,"body":"was in this situation. I have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2185.2,"endTime":2188.17,"body":"take ownership of that. And when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2188.17,"endTime":2192.22,"body":"I have ownership of that, I get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2188.17,"endTime":2192.22,"body":"the power to continue forward, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2192.22,"endTime":2195.34,"body":"get to have the sense of control"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2192.22,"endTime":2195.34,"body":"and power. I can't control"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2195.34,"endTime":2198.7,"body":"everything, but I still get to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2195.34,"endTime":2198.7,"body":"take ownership. And there's so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2198.7,"endTime":2202.42,"body":"much power in that. So I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2198.7,"endTime":2202.42,"body":"firmly believe that it it comes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.42,"endTime":2205.69,"body":"down to getting to know yourself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2202.42,"endTime":2205.69,"body":"and listening to yourself. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.69,"endTime":2208.03,"body":"being very in tune with that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.69,"endTime":2208.03,"body":"And there are things you there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2208.03,"endTime":2211.42,"body":"are moments that I have to say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2208.03,"endTime":2211.42,"body":"I, I need space, like I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2211.42,"endTime":2214.96,"body":"just everyday show up saying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2211.42,"endTime":2214.96,"body":"hey, this is great. I can do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.96,"endTime":2218.8,"body":"this. I also very much like I'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.96,"endTime":2218.8,"body":"tell Steve, I'll tell Matt, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2218.8,"endTime":2223.27,"body":"husband, I need some time right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2218.8,"endTime":2223.27,"body":"now. I can't do this. I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2223.27,"endTime":2226.93,"body":"go, I'm gonna go do whatever I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2223.27,"endTime":2226.93,"body":"going for a long run, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2226.93,"endTime":2231.73,"body":"to go out with my friends."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2226.93,"endTime":2231.73,"body":"Because I can't process this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2231.73,"endTime":2233.53,"body":"right now. I'm going to take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2231.73,"endTime":2233.53,"body":"some time and then come back to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2233.53,"endTime":2235.39,"body":"it. And realizing that that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2233.53,"endTime":2235.39,"body":"okay."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2235.75,"endTime":2237.91,"body":"You know, one of the"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2235.75,"endTime":2237.91,"body":"phrases I've said a lot is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2237.97,"endTime":2240.43,"body":"honoring agency and honor, and"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2237.97,"endTime":2240.43,"body":"honoring other people's agency."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2240.43,"endTime":2243.61,"body":"Yes, I have a new phrase that I"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2240.43,"endTime":2243.61,"body":"got from you just now, which is"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2243.64,"endTime":2246.94,"body":"owning your agency. Like just"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2243.64,"endTime":2246.94,"body":"really owning the choices that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2246.94,"endTime":2249.85,"body":"we make, and then living with"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2246.94,"endTime":2249.85,"body":"those decisions, and then"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2249.88,"endTime":2252.7,"body":"realizing that we have the power"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2249.88,"endTime":2252.7,"body":"to continue making choices in"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2252.7,"endTime":2253.21,"body":"the future."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":2253.27,"endTime":2255.13,"body":"I love it. So"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":2253.27,"endTime":2255.13,"body":"good."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2255.61,"endTime":2258.31,"body":"So what is it like now"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2255.61,"endTime":2258.31,"body":"that you're married to a"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2258.31,"endTime":2258.91,"body":"straight guy?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2262.93,"endTime":2264.52,"body":"Or a bisexual. I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2262.93,"endTime":2264.52,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2265.36,"endTime":2269.41,"body":"He's pretty straight."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2265.36,"endTime":2269.41,"body":"It's great. I mean, it has a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2269.41,"endTime":2271.96,"body":"whole different set of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2269.41,"endTime":2271.96,"body":"challenges that come into play."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2271.989,"endTime":2272.979,"body":"It's a new vibe."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2272.0,"endTime":2277.25,"body":"Yeah, it's interesting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2272.0,"endTime":2277.25,"body":"because I always say, remarriage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2277.25,"endTime":2280.31,"body":"has been so much harder for me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2277.25,"endTime":2280.31,"body":"than the divorce was. And maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2280.31,"endTime":2283.52,"body":"it's because I kind of was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2280.31,"endTime":2283.52,"body":"realistic about the divorce and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.52,"endTime":2289.04,"body":"the possibility of those things."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.52,"endTime":2289.04,"body":"I don't know. But remarriage has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.04,"endTime":2292.88,"body":"been hard. And I understand why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.04,"endTime":2292.88,"body":"so many second marriages end in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2292.88,"endTime":2296.09,"body":"divorce, and quickly end in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2292.88,"endTime":2296.09,"body":"divorce. Because I was there a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2296.09,"endTime":2301.46,"body":"year into our marriage, I left."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2296.09,"endTime":2301.46,"body":"I was like I am done. And it's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2302.15,"endTime":2305.57,"body":"it's hard, because well, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2302.15,"endTime":2305.57,"body":"blending families and all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.57,"endTime":2308.3,"body":"that. So it just comes with a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.57,"endTime":2308.3,"body":"different set of problems, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2308.3,"endTime":2312.41,"body":"different set of issues, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2308.3,"endTime":2312.41,"body":"it's fun. We have a great time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2312.41,"endTime":2316.82,"body":"together. And he is a very, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2312.41,"endTime":2316.82,"body":"good man. So it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2316.82,"endTime":2322.25,"body":"wonderful. And I sometimes that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2316.82,"endTime":2322.25,"body":"I feel bad that I go and share"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2322.25,"endTime":2326.81,"body":"this love for the LGBTQIA"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2322.25,"endTime":2326.81,"body":"community. Like how does my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2326.81,"endTime":2329.63,"body":"husband, my new husband feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2326.81,"endTime":2329.63,"body":"about this because it's so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2329.63,"endTime":2332.39,"body":"connected to my ex husband,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2329.63,"endTime":2332.39,"body":"right? And he's right there with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2332.39,"endTime":2336.44,"body":"me. He's just like, we need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2332.39,"endTime":2336.44,"body":"do this. There needs to be love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2336.44,"endTime":2340.37,"body":"and awareness. We need to help"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2336.44,"endTime":2340.37,"body":"people. And he just is right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2340.37,"endTime":2343.79,"body":"there with me. I mean, he's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2340.37,"endTime":2343.79,"body":"loving. He will say I love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2343.79,"endTime":2347.75,"body":"Steve, I love your ex-husband."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2343.79,"endTime":2347.75,"body":"And so yeah, I married a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2347.75,"endTime":2349.73,"body":"guy. So it's, it's pretty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2347.75,"endTime":2349.73,"body":"awesome."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2350.42,"endTime":2356.15,"body":"Jessica, I'm picturing a"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2350.42,"endTime":2356.15,"body":"listener who is LGBTQ and is in,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2356.21,"endTime":2358.91,"body":"either dating someone seriously"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2356.21,"endTime":2358.91,"body":"or in a marriage and they're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2358.91,"endTime":2363.02,"body":"thinking about telling their"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2358.91,"endTime":2363.02,"body":"partner or spouse, what what"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2363.02,"endTime":2364.4,"body":"advice would you give for that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2363.02,"endTime":2364.4,"body":"person?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2365.47,"endTime":2368.68,"body":"I mean, my first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2365.47,"endTime":2368.68,"body":"thought is tell them, tell them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2369.34,"endTime":2373.06,"body":"It can go many ways. When you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2369.34,"endTime":2373.06,"body":"tell them, it's probably going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.06,"endTime":2376.81,"body":"to be really hard. But it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.06,"endTime":2376.81,"body":"through the hard things that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2376.81,"endTime":2381.55,"body":"either get to draw closer to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2376.81,"endTime":2381.55,"body":"your partner, your spouse and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.58,"endTime":2387.1,"body":"find out your true colors like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.58,"endTime":2387.1,"body":"the basis of a relationship is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2387.1,"endTime":2392.17,"body":"its best or relationships are at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2387.1,"endTime":2392.17,"body":"their best when we know who the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2392.17,"endTime":2395.92,"body":"other person is truly when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2392.17,"endTime":2395.92,"body":"know what it is. What makes them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.92,"endTime":2400.03,"body":"tick who they are. Like that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.92,"endTime":2400.03,"body":"when the magic happens. That's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2400.03,"endTime":2403.54,"body":"when you get to love yourself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2400.03,"endTime":2403.54,"body":"fully and love the other person"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2403.54,"endTime":2408.16,"body":"fully. So I mean, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2403.54,"endTime":2408.16,"body":"obviously something so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2408.16,"endTime":2412.63,"body":"individual to each person, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2408.16,"endTime":2412.63,"body":"that is what I, I honestly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2412.63,"endTime":2415.3,"body":"believe that if you can tell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2412.63,"endTime":2415.3,"body":"them, it's going to bring you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2415.3,"endTime":2419.47,"body":"peace no matter what, no matter"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2415.3,"endTime":2419.47,"body":"what comes, you're going to find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2419.47,"endTime":2422.41,"body":"more peace and clarity than just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2419.47,"endTime":2422.41,"body":"suppressing who you are."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2422.48,"endTime":2425.87,"body":"Yeah. And along with"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2422.48,"endTime":2425.87,"body":"that, I feel like you can only"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2425.87,"endTime":2428.84,"body":"heal from pain that you're"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2425.87,"endTime":2428.84,"body":"willing to acknowledge. So if"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2428.84,"endTime":2433.55,"body":"you're brave enough to dig deep"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2428.84,"endTime":2433.55,"body":"into really what's causing,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2433.58,"endTime":2437.45,"body":"like, take a big scoop out of"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2433.58,"endTime":2437.45,"body":"that pain, then how much more"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2437.45,"endTime":2439.88,"body":"are you able to heal from? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2437.45,"endTime":2439.88,"body":"that makes sense?"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2439.0,"endTime":2442.36,"body":"Yeah, what I tell people,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2439.0,"endTime":2442.36,"body":"because sometimes I'll get"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2442.36,"endTime":2445.33,"body":"emails, and they'll say, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2442.36,"endTime":2445.33,"body":"I'm gay. And I haven't told my"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2445.33,"endTime":2448.42,"body":"wife, what do I do? And I always"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2445.33,"endTime":2448.42,"body":"tell them, you know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2448.42,"endTime":2451.3,"body":"know, like, my job is you should"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2448.42,"endTime":2451.3,"body":"do in your marriage, but at some"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2451.3,"endTime":2453.79,"body":"point, they're gonna know, like,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2451.3,"endTime":2453.79,"body":"they're gonna know, like, this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2453.79,"endTime":2456.34,"body":"secret isn't going to stay"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2453.79,"endTime":2456.34,"body":"forever. And so I say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2456.37,"endTime":2458.11,"body":"it's not should I, but when."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2458.0,"endTime":2462.02,"body":"Yes, and they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2458.0,"endTime":2462.02,"body":"feeling that tension. Whether"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.02,"endTime":2465.11,"body":"you guys are acknowledging that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.02,"endTime":2465.11,"body":"or not in your marriage or in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2465.11,"endTime":2468.38,"body":"your relationship, you can feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2465.11,"endTime":2468.38,"body":"it, you can feel it. And I could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2468.38,"endTime":2472.7,"body":"feel the times when Steve when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2468.38,"endTime":2472.7,"body":"something was going on. And he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2472.7,"endTime":2476.15,"body":"wasn't telling me I knew, I knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2472.7,"endTime":2476.15,"body":"that he was struggling with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2476.15,"endTime":2478.67,"body":"something or that something had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2476.15,"endTime":2478.67,"body":"happened that he wasn't telling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2478.67,"endTime":2482.24,"body":"me about. And so I could,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2478.67,"endTime":2482.24,"body":"whether he vocalized that or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2482.24,"endTime":2485.84,"body":"not, I knew, but when he told me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2482.24,"endTime":2485.84,"body":"he was so much better, because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.84,"endTime":2488.63,"body":"knew what was actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.84,"endTime":2488.63,"body":"happening. Instead of making up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2488.66,"endTime":2491.51,"body":"some story in my head, Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2488.66,"endTime":2491.51,"body":"gosh, he's had an affair. Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2491.51,"endTime":2494.33,"body":"goodness, he's done this or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2491.51,"endTime":2494.33,"body":"that. Or he's going to tell me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2494.33,"endTime":2497.6,"body":"we're getting divorced. But even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2494.33,"endTime":2497.6,"body":"if he had told me those things,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2497.69,"endTime":2501.41,"body":"it was easier to know. Every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2497.69,"endTime":2501.41,"body":"time he told me something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2501.41,"endTime":2503.72,"body":"had happened, it was easier to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2501.41,"endTime":2503.72,"body":"know exactly what it was so that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2503.72,"endTime":2504.98,"body":"I knew how to deal with it."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2505.07,"endTime":2507.2,"body":"Well, and you don't"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2505.07,"endTime":2507.2,"body":"have to live in like, a you"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2507.2,"endTime":2508.85,"body":"don't have to make up fake"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2507.2,"endTime":2508.85,"body":"scenarios that hurt your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2508.85,"endTime":2512.57,"body":"feelings. Live in that paranoia."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2512.81,"endTime":2516.17,"body":"And I always just felt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2512.81,"endTime":2516.17,"body":"grateful when he told me the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2516.17,"endTime":2520.82,"body":"hard things. And also, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2516.17,"endTime":2520.82,"body":"loved him more. Every time we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2520.82,"endTime":2523.55,"body":"went through those things. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2520.82,"endTime":2523.55,"body":"just loved him so much more. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2523.55,"endTime":2526.52,"body":"I also it's because I understood"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2523.55,"endTime":2526.52,"body":"him more I could see his hurt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2526.52,"endTime":2529.16,"body":"and pain, I think of a couple of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2526.52,"endTime":2529.16,"body":"times he went on work trips and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2529.16,"endTime":2534.62,"body":"ended up at like gay clubs, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2529.16,"endTime":2534.62,"body":"in sketchy parts of town that he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2534.62,"endTime":2537.65,"body":"was not good things were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2534.62,"endTime":2537.65,"body":"happening. And he wasn't having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2537.65,"endTime":2541.58,"body":"affairs, but it was on the verge"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2537.65,"endTime":2541.58,"body":"of those things. And just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2541.61,"endTime":2545.69,"body":"appreciating that he trusted me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2541.61,"endTime":2545.69,"body":"enough to tell me. And it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2545.69,"endTime":2550.01,"body":"always easy to hear. Most of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2545.69,"endTime":2550.01,"body":"time it wasn't. But again, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2550.01,"endTime":2553.19,"body":"wasn't about me it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2550.01,"endTime":2553.19,"body":"understanding who he was and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2553.19,"endTime":2556.67,"body":"where he was at. So I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2553.19,"endTime":2556.67,"body":"yeah, you're exactly right. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2556.67,"endTime":2559.58,"body":"we can't tell them what to do."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2556.67,"endTime":2559.58,"body":"But there is some peace that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.58,"endTime":2562.07,"body":"comes from being honest. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.58,"endTime":2562.07,"body":"there is a tension there that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2562.07,"endTime":2562.61,"body":"people feel."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2562.64,"endTime":2565.34,"body":"Yeah. And just this"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2562.64,"endTime":2565.34,"body":"acknowledgement that if someone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2565.34,"endTime":2567.02,"body":"is struggling, even if you don't"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2565.34,"endTime":2567.02,"body":"know what it is like that"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2567.02,"endTime":2569.84,"body":"affects you. Yeah. And it's,"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2567.02,"endTime":2569.84,"body":"it's easier in the long run, if"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2569.84,"endTime":2571.04,"body":"you just know what's going on."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.63,"endTime":2574.0,"body":"That comes down to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.63,"endTime":2574.0,"body":"anything in relationship, not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.0,"endTime":2577.87,"body":"even big things. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.0,"endTime":2577.87,"body":"just keep thinking. So people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2577.87,"endTime":2581.92,"body":"often ask me, well, how do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2577.87,"endTime":2581.92,"body":"talk to Penny about this? And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2582.1,"endTime":2584.8,"body":"you know, what age did Penny"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2582.1,"endTime":2584.8,"body":"find out and all of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2584.8,"endTime":2587.74,"body":"things, and we had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2584.8,"endTime":2587.74,"body":"conversation about that, Steven,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2587.74,"endTime":2591.58,"body":"I did. And I said, listen, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2587.74,"endTime":2591.58,"body":"want her to know, from a young"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2591.58,"endTime":2594.43,"body":"age. I don't want her I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2591.58,"endTime":2594.43,"body":"want to tell her when she's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2594.43,"endTime":2597.58,"body":"teenager. I don't want her to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2594.43,"endTime":2597.58,"body":"find out. Just wanted to know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2597.64,"endTime":2601.06,"body":"like, this is just who you are."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2597.64,"endTime":2601.06,"body":"And so that's something that a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2601.06,"endTime":2603.73,"body":"lot of people ask, and they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2601.06,"endTime":2603.73,"body":"scared like, whether it's their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.73,"endTime":2606.76,"body":"niece or nephew or it's their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.73,"endTime":2606.76,"body":"own kids how to have those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2606.76,"endTime":2609.91,"body":"conversations. And I always just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2606.76,"endTime":2609.91,"body":"tell people, you be very honest,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2609.91,"endTime":2613.27,"body":"on an age appropriate level."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2609.91,"endTime":2613.27,"body":"Penny's first experience was she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2613.27,"endTime":2615.1,"body":"saw Steve kiss one of her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2613.27,"endTime":2615.1,"body":"boyfriend, one of his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2615.1,"endTime":2617.53,"body":"boyfriends, and she thought it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2615.1,"endTime":2617.53,"body":"was super funny the first night"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2617.53,"endTime":2619.87,"body":"and then the second night, she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2617.53,"endTime":2619.87,"body":"saw him kiss him again. And she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2619.87,"endTime":2624.1,"body":"goes Daddy, boys aren't supposed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2619.87,"endTime":2624.1,"body":"to kiss boys. And she was like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2624.1,"endTime":2628.45,"body":"three. And it was just so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2624.1,"endTime":2628.45,"body":"interesting to have her pick up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2628.45,"endTime":2632.8,"body":"on that. And she was a little,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2628.45,"endTime":2632.8,"body":"like, unsure about it to begin"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2632.8,"endTime":2635.71,"body":"with. She wasn't sure how to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2632.8,"endTime":2635.71,"body":"respond to that. And it really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2635.74,"endTime":2639.34,"body":"kind of hurt Steve. I said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2635.74,"endTime":2639.34,"body":"Listen, she is three. She is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2639.34,"endTime":2643.63,"body":"processing something. She loves"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2639.34,"endTime":2643.63,"body":"you. Just, it's going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.63,"endTime":2646.36,"body":"okay. And he was also nervous"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.63,"endTime":2646.36,"body":"because I'm still active in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2646.36,"endTime":2648.79,"body":"church. And he's there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2646.36,"endTime":2648.79,"body":"little part of him that's going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2648.79,"endTime":2651.52,"body":"well, what are you going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2648.79,"endTime":2651.52,"body":"teach her about this? And so we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2651.52,"endTime":2654.13,"body":"just told her listen, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2651.52,"endTime":2654.13,"body":"boys love boys, and sometimes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2654.13,"endTime":2658.3,"body":"girls love girls, and sometimes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2654.13,"endTime":2658.3,"body":"boys love girls and whatever. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2658.3,"endTime":2662.62,"body":"doesn't matter. It's just about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2658.3,"endTime":2662.62,"body":"love. And in her three year old"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2662.62,"endTime":2666.07,"body":"brain that was enough to to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2662.62,"endTime":2666.07,"body":"forward. She was okay with that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2666.1,"endTime":2667.9,"body":"And as she's gotten older, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2666.1,"endTime":2667.9,"body":"course, we've had more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2667.9,"endTime":2671.32,"body":"conversations. And I think now"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2667.9,"endTime":2671.32,"body":"it's funny because she's been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2671.32,"endTime":2673.99,"body":"around drag queens and stuff."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2671.32,"endTime":2673.99,"body":"And now she knows what those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.99,"endTime":2679.15,"body":"are. And it's like, clicking of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.99,"endTime":2679.15,"body":"like, ooooh, they weren't just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2679.15,"endTime":2682.87,"body":"dressing up for Halloween or a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2679.15,"endTime":2682.87,"body":"party. This is a thing that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2682.87,"endTime":2688.09,"body":"do. And I just love that those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2682.87,"endTime":2688.09,"body":"conversations happen and that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2688.09,"endTime":2692.71,"body":"she knows who her dad is and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2688.09,"endTime":2692.71,"body":"that she gets to love him as he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2692.71,"endTime":2696.04,"body":"is. So I think there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2692.71,"endTime":2696.04,"body":"power in that in opening up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2696.04,"endTime":2697.12,"body":"those conversations."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2698.02,"endTime":2700.03,"body":"So Jessica, if people want"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2698.02,"endTime":2700.03,"body":"to hear more of your story where"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2700.03,"endTime":2700.54,"body":"can they go?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2701.11,"endTime":2703.54,"body":"So if you go to our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2701.11,"endTime":2703.54,"body":"podcast Husband In Law it's on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2703.54,"endTime":2708.13,"body":"any podcasting platform, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2703.54,"endTime":2708.13,"body":"literally go through our story"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2708.13,"endTime":2712.3,"body":"from beginning to end and Matt's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2708.13,"endTime":2712.3,"body":"story beginning to end and until"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2712.3,"endTime":2716.71,"body":"now, and you can hear all of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2712.3,"endTime":2716.71,"body":"things. It's kind of a different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2716.71,"endTime":2720.34,"body":"setup. It's more I always say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2716.71,"endTime":2720.34,"body":"like the people that like true"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2720.34,"endTime":2734.56,"body":"crime stories, podcasts. Because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2720.34,"endTime":2734.56,"body":"it's just the story. We do just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2734.56,"endTime":2736.99,"body":"share all of our stories there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2734.56,"endTime":2736.99,"body":"in hopes to help people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2736.99,"endTime":2741.61,"body":"understand that it's okay to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2736.99,"endTime":2741.61,"body":"embrace a life that isn't what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2741.61,"endTime":2744.25,"body":"you thought it would be. And to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2741.61,"endTime":2744.25,"body":"understand that it's okay to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.25,"endTime":2747.61,"body":"who you are. And to have these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.25,"endTime":2747.61,"body":"relationships that may look a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2747.61,"endTime":2751.18,"body":"little weird to other people."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2747.61,"endTime":2751.18,"body":"And that's okay. So we are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2751.18,"endTime":2755.14,"body":"there. We are on Instagram,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2751.18,"endTime":2755.14,"body":"Husband In Law. And then yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2755.14,"endTime":2757.42,"body":"we also have a coloring book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2755.14,"endTime":2757.42,"body":"right now if anyone is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.42,"endTime":2761.2,"body":"interested., that is all it has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.42,"endTime":2761.2,"body":"queer terms in there that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2761.2,"endTime":2763.6,"body":"can go and start up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2761.2,"endTime":2763.6,"body":"conversations with your kids. We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2763.6,"endTime":2766.42,"body":"had one little while we had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2763.6,"endTime":2766.42,"body":"dad that reached out to us, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2766.42,"endTime":2769.66,"body":"said, We got a coloring book."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2766.42,"endTime":2769.66,"body":"And my daughter opened up to I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2769.66,"endTime":2772.21,"body":"think she's around nine. And she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2769.66,"endTime":2772.21,"body":"was reading through all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2772.21,"endTime":2774.94,"body":"terms that she said, Dad, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2772.21,"endTime":2774.94,"body":"what I am. I'm not one right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2774.94,"endTime":2779.74,"body":"there. And he said, he just like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2774.94,"endTime":2779.74,"body":"got all teary and was so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2779.74,"endTime":2783.94,"body":"grateful that she felt seen. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2779.74,"endTime":2783.94,"body":"she felt normal because she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2783.94,"endTime":2787.57,"body":"should, she should feel normal."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2783.94,"endTime":2787.57,"body":"And so it's just kind of a fun,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2787.57,"endTime":2790.84,"body":"easy way to open up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2787.57,"endTime":2790.84,"body":"conversations and help people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2790.84,"endTime":2792.58,"body":"feel seen."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2791.68,"endTime":2792.58,"body":"Yeah, love that."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2793.389,"endTime":2796.329,"body":"Well, thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2793.389,"endTime":2796.329,"body":"for sharing your heart, your"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2796.329,"endTime":2799.749,"body":"story, your boldness with us."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2796.329,"endTime":2799.749,"body":"I've loved this conversation."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2800.29,"endTime":2800.92,"body":"Thanks so much."},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":2800.949,"endTime":2802.029,"body":"Thanks for having"},{"speaker":"Jessica Frew","startTime":2800.949,"endTime":2802.029,"body":"me, guys."},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2803.77,"endTime":2805.96,"body":"Thank you for joining us"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2803.77,"endTime":2805.96,"body":"today. If you've enjoyed this or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2805.96,"endTime":2808.66,"body":"other episodes, please consider"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2805.96,"endTime":2808.66,"body":"leaving a review following us on"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2808.66,"endTime":2811.51,"body":"Instagram or Facebook at"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2808.66,"endTime":2811.51,"body":"Questions from the Closet or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2811.51,"endTime":2814.09,"body":"sharing the podcast with someone"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2811.51,"endTime":2814.09,"body":"you love. And as always, please"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2814.09,"endTime":2815.89,"body":"remember that we do not"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2814.09,"endTime":2815.89,"body":"represent the Church of Jesus"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2815.89,"endTime":2818.62,"body":"Christ of Latter-day Saints for"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2815.89,"endTime":2818.62,"body":"Brigham Young University. You're"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2818.62,"endTime":2820.96,"body":"not trying to be prescriptive or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2818.62,"endTime":2820.96,"body":"tell anyone what to think or"},{"speaker":"Ben","startTime":2820.96,"endTime":2821.47,"body":"what to do."},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2821.949,"endTime":2823.629,"body":"You heard thre"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2821.949,"endTime":2823.629,"body":"perspectives and there are many"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2823.629,"endTime":2826.329,"body":"many more. We encourage you t"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2823.629,"endTime":2826.329,"body":"listen to other voices and hea"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2826.329,"endTime":2829.029,"body":"a wide variety of experiences"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2826.329,"endTime":2829.029,"body":"If you would like to submit"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2829.029,"endTime":2831.699,"body":"question or share a commen"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2829.029,"endTime":2831.699,"body":"about today's episode, you ca"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2831.699,"endTime":2835.059,"body":"email us at questions in th"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2831.699,"endTime":2835.059,"body":"closet@gmail.com. Until nex"},{"speaker":"Charlie","startTime":2835.059,"endTime":2835.389,"body":"time"}]}