iPhone photography and the professional, with Scott Kelby, KelbyOne

Gary Pageau of the Dead Pixels Society talks with industry educator, professional photographer and author, Scott Kelby, about the impact of COVID-19 on photographic education and workshops, how the iPhone is putting pressure on the traditional camera makers and what his favorite iPhone app is.

Scott Kelby is an American photographer, publisher, and author. He is the CEO of KelbyOne, an online educational community for Photographers, Photoshop, and Lightroom users.  He has authored dozens of books, including his latest, "The iPhone Photography Book."

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Transcript

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Gary Pageau  0:02  
Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixels society podcast. I'm your host, Gary Pageau. And today we're joined by the legendary Scott Kelby of KelbyOne, one of the industry's largest training platforms for the photography world. Hey, Scott, how are you today?

Scott Kelby  0:18  
I am awesome, Gary, thanks for having me.

Gary Pageau  0:21  
So Scott in the age of COVID, how is that impacted the training world

Scott Kelby  0:30  
in a really massive way. So, you know, we're, I think of our company is like an online based, you know, we do online training, we've got like, 800 classes and, and that's our main business. But an important part of our business are live events. So each year, we hold the Photoshop World Conference. So it's usually in Las Vegas, which is a big conference, and it brings in photographers away, it's a Photoshop conference, with a ton of Lightroom training and a ton of photography training. So it started as Photoshop world, but as photographers kind of moved into that space, it became more of a photography world, but but there's a lot of, you know, software and post processing that we teach. But yeah, that that's that conference went away, we've replaced it with online conferences, we've done five or six so far. And there are two day events, but it's just not the same. You know, it's like, we I think, just as people we need to get together, we need to gather in groups. And there are friends that I only see it Photoshop world, I look forward to it so much each year, it's like a family gathering. And there's been people that have been coming for 1520 years that come to every single Photoshop world every single year. And it's kind of like a homecoming. And that's, that's been kind of rough. I do a seminar tour that goes to like 22 cities, and I think I went to two last year. Wow, before I had to stop. So I miss all that a lot. It is we've had to shift our business. And so it's been okay. But it's just replacing that, that human contact is just so hard. It's just, you know, I mean, you can do it virtually. And it's, it's not bad, but it's just not that level of awesome. There's no hugging. There's no hanging out at the bar

Gary Pageau  2:21  
And it's really just incidental encounters. Like you see someone and you see their badge and you realize, Hey, this is someone I need to meet. Right? You don't do that online.

Scott Kelby  2:32  
Yeah, all that stuff, you know, just the so much of, you know, I always tell people and I said this even you know, before the pandemic and stuff is that, so much of what we do, is real connections are made in person, you can email people, you can text, you can do voice stuff, you can do video, but real connection happens in person. And I think that is such a powerful thing. And I said that forever. Because there's people you'll meet and you talk to and you you work with them for two years, you have one dinner with them and everything changes, right. So it's it's that that personal connection, I miss it, it has definitely impacted our whole industry. Gosh, I've got so many friends where they tell me their stories of you know, their business has been devastated. You know, they're sports photographers, right? And, you know, they're, they're your old, they're allowing a quarter of the number of photographers that used to be there, and, you know, the access is so limited. And you know, I've got wedding photographers that aren't doing weddings, right. You know, it's just I've got portrait photographers that go, I can't get anybody to come in my studio, you know, it's just, I can't name a genre of photography that hasn't been impacted by it, a workshops, the workshop business, I had a workshop planned in Prague, for this past year that I was going to do Tuscany and I wound up I had to send an email again, to my Prague group. Well, we're not going to go in April. It's just It's very, it's disappointing. it's disheartening, but it's you know, it's kind of where we're at I'm just you know, I'm hopeful for the future but it man is it impacted every facet of our industry, including production and manufacturing and everything.

Gary Pageau  4:12  
Oh, yeah. Because I mean, think about how many people plan a big trip and they buy that DSLR that mirrorless camera and they buy the bag and they buy the lens and you know they make a big while all that's gone right i mean we all know what's happening to camera sales in the last year and I think you know the the innovative inhibit ation of travel travel has impacted that tremendously.

Scott Kelby  4:36  
Oh, yeah. I mean, that's that's what you use as an excuse to buy new gear. That was our excuse. Go into Namibia. I can't go with the crap camera I've got now. Really no, that was that was what we use as their as a as a reason why we had to get that new camera back.

Gary Pageau  4:55  
So how I'm just curious how has COVID changed your the format of an online event? I mean, because it's different than a workshop. And the reason why I asked that is because I've seen different organizations try and take their live event and kind of turn it into a virtual event with like a, you know, a trade show booth, or a floor and breakout sessions and things and I'm really not sure that's been successful. And you've been doing both. So when you do your virtual Photoshop world, is that a similar format to the live event? Or do you do it similar to your online events? Or is it a hybrid? Or what? How is that?

Scott Kelby  5:33  
So it? It's, it's kind of a hybrid? I will say this, it has worked phenomenally well. From our last one we did, which we just finished one, a travel photography conference, by the way. 99.6% of the respondents, we had over 1000 people said that they would absolutely attend another one of our online events.

Gary Pageau  5:57  
Right. Okay,

Scott Kelby  5:58  
so we run two simultaneous tracks, we have live presentations, live Q and A's. We have a wrap up, that's that we will get all the instructors together and do a q&a. But I will be honest with you, a lot of the people that are coming to our events are people that have been to our live events, right. So it's kind of like they're reconnecting online. The class, you know, presentations are great. We've got studios, and we've got, you know, facilities. And, you know, we've got a great team. So the quality is great. They get it archived for a year, right. So if they're not able to attend every session, or they're not able to be there, the day broadcasts live, they can watch it for up to a year. So it has its advantages and disadvantages. But you know, we've done six of them. So far, the numbers have been tremendous. And, and the feedback has been so great. It's it's a lot better than I was expecting. The only people that that don't do that well, is there is no trade show, right? So at night, we do a vendor area, and they get a half an hour to basically just say, hey, if you want to stop by i'll be showing my product. And it for some people, it has worked quite well. And for others, it just hasn't. It's just depends on what your product is and how it translates and how you are as a presenter. Right. So this is now you're talking to someone who's usually standing at a tradeshow booth is looking at a camera from their their house from their living room. So I would say that part of it has been a mixed bag, but the actual teaching, I mean, we're an online company, we release a class every week. So we're just releasing a whole bunch of classes real quick. But the the quality and the stream and the audio and the video and the instruction. I mean, we've got the best instructors. So it is worked out better than I expected as far as the instruction goes and the happiness of the attendee. And it's the trade show part of it kind of stinks.

Gary Pageau  7:53  
So what has been the uptick? I'm just curious to the archive material or people going back and revisiting the sessions they may have. Yeah, okay. 

Scott Kelby  8:02  
I hear from people all the time. that'll say, Hey, I was just watching a class. And it's from a conference we did eight months ago. Okay. So I still get questions and comments and things from classes that were Yeah, people go back and they watch it, they got the time. on their hands. So yeah, they've got you know, 20 classes basically, is what it you know, where it's two tracks two days. So they have 20 classes, plus bonus sessions and our pre conference workshop. And yeah, it's all archived for an entire year. So they can just go, you know, watch it. It's, I'm so surprised. It is worked out as well as that as because I to be honest with you, Gary, I had very little hope when we first started doing it, right. I was like, we're we do this stuff live. And now we're going to take it online. And I knew that we had the technology because that's what we do. But I didn't know how. And so we decided to do them live. Our first conference was 100% live every class, we had an instructor in Paris with an instructor in Canada, we've got an instructor that Netherlands, and we're all broadcasting live, and it worked out astonishingly, well, much better than I was expecting. So it's a mixed bag.

Gary Pageau  9:08  
As I mean, obviously, you already had a foot in, in the online world anyway. So you'd have to build it from the ground up. You know, unfortunately, there's been other conferences in the industry who weren't as prepared. So it'll be interesting to see how that how that evolves. Because I think once COVID passes, hopefully soon, this year, perhaps, and people can start going back to things it'll be interesting to see how much the online portion is retained. Right? Because, you know, you've you're building an audience based on people who have already come to your events and you hopefully you've picked up some new people, right. So will the new people have never been to an in person event? Well, they go to a future in person that you don't know. No one knows.

But it'll be interesting because because one thing I've discovered from people Who are talking about the changes COVID has brought on the industry is, you know, there's really no going back to a pre COVID world. Right? You know, the future is going to be definitely impacted by COVID and how it's affected their business whether it's you know, doing online things or whatever, but we still need the in person stuff. We got to have the in person activity I

Scott Kelby  10:21  
too. Yeah, we it's, it's, it's how we're wired. I am worried about the zombies. That's the next wave coming is zombies. But in the meantime,

Gary Pageau  10:36  
I'm thinking is he is this like an industry term for someone who logs on but doesn't learn anything? Or is this an actual flesh eating zombie? 

Scott Kelby  10:44  
Yeah, I was thinking flesh eating zombie. Oh, get up. But just totally kidding. You know, who? Who was nailing this though? Gary? If I don't know if you saw the last iPhone event from Apple?

Gary Pageau  10:55  
Oh, yeah.

Scott Kelby  10:56  
Oh, come on, dude. They are nailing it. But you watch the event, you're like, this is better than being there. I mean, they now the amount of money they put into, it can only be put into it by Apple. Correct. It was like watching a motion picture of a keynote. It was amazing. Right. But, you know, I think people are going to school and that I think you'll see some great stuff. But but I do think I think the future is going to be virtual and in person. And, you know, we just we've got a, we have an interesting, it's gonna be an interesting year. So I'm, I'm optimistic. And I do see some things already getting better. Yeah. And so I'm just, you know, we're kind of learning to live with it. Right? We're learning how do I navigate the space and like, when I do training, and I and like, I had to have a live model in the studio last week. And so we're all wearing masks, we're all 10 feet 15 feet apart, Ryan and at some point, I'm on camera after take off my mask? Well, I'm using a 70 to 200 lens, I'm standing 15 feet away from you know, you're learning how do I navigate this and keep everybody safe? And when you're just learning how it's just kind of the way it is.

Gary Pageau  12:04  
So that was a nice segue earlier, you mentioned Apple, because we're really here to talk about your new book, which isn't this nice, how smooth this is working. So your new book is called the iPhone photography book, how to get professional looking images using the camera you always have with you. And it's an actual physical book, that someone's actually printing, binding and mailing. It's not curious. It's sort of a throwback thing.

Scott Kelby  12:32  
So tell me about the book. So what it is, is just the iPhone camera has gotten so good. Like, it's just it started to scare me, is what pushed me into this. So my wife is as an iPhone photographer, and she's she's just a really good photographer, and the iPhone is her camera. And she's taking pictures that I'm looking at these and go, there's no way you would know that these weren't from a DSLR or a mirrorless. Camera. And so I started taking it a little bit more seriously. And then in the last couple iPhones, Apple is leading the way with the stuff that they're doing. They're they're doing this, this computational software, stuff that while the camera is good, like the lenses gotten better, and there's things what they're doing with the software is ridiculous. And it's allowing you to do things I didn't think you'd be able to do with a with a camera on your phone. And so I realized, what if we took the same things that I teach professional photographers, like the same things about portraits and about posing and about landscape, and the only thing we change is, yeah, now you're using a phone. So that's what it is, the whole book is built as the same things that I teach the pros, except for the same techniques that we use, except for instead of you holding a DSLR or a mirrorless you're holding an iPhone. And so now I will say about 25% of the book, or 30% of that is very iPhone specific things like here's some neat things you can do in the iPhone, here's some stuff the software will do, here's how to take advantage of it. But the other 75% is just teaching you the skills of photography. And and it's just because at some point the camera doesn't matter that much if there are other things that matter more. So now that you've got a great camera, because I do think the camera is at a kind of a breakout stage right now with the iPhone. I think it's it it does computational photography, stuff that that Apple introduced, I think was a game changer. So that's, that's where I think I thought it was time for this book. And what's weird is, you know, like, you're like do people still write books? This book has my highest pre orders for the print version of probably any book I've had in three or four years. Wow.

Gary Pageau  14:46  
So I'm curious when you say professional, you know, that's one of those words that you know can mean different things to different people. So clearly you're talking about, you know, something other than portrait mode. Right now on the camera. You know, the portrait mode is fine, and we all like it. When you talk about professional, what kind of accessories are you talking about, that can go with the, let's say, an iPhone 12 Pro, you know, either lights or you know, because me saying this out of the box, it's not gonna compete with a DSLR unless you're talking lighting and some other things, unless I'm wrong on that. 

Scott Kelby  15:21  
I mean, I do talk a little bit about accessories, I have an accessory chapter in the book. And there's some things that that'll help. But the things that I talk about a lot in the book are not necessarily things that you buy too attached to your phone. Okay. So for example, if I'm teaching photography, natural light photography, so a lot of people are drawn to natural light photography, it's inexpensive, and things like that. And I have a whole chapter on that. But one of the things I tell people, and I'll just share it with you, one of the big tips in the book, and it's a secret that pros have been using forever, is to buy what's called a one stop diffuser. So this is not a piece of camera gear, it is a is an accessory for photography, it picture around disc, that's flat, so it's a flat round disc, about the size of a basketball, it opens up into a big, large, you know, 30 or 40 inch rectangle, you literally hold it between your subject and the sun, and the light becomes absolutely beautiful. So you're standing out in this harsh, nasty, whatever. And then you put this diffuser over your subjects head. So you need a friend, right? Gary, you got to get somebody out there with you. Right, and you could technically you couldn't get you'd both have to be wearing masks at this point to get close to yourself. So bring a friend and assistant, a buddy, whoever, and and you just say look put the sun's up there. And they're squinting and it looks awful. Put this between the sun in them. And Gary, it is shocking. I mean, the difference is just like, Are you kidding me? You know how much it costs, you can get it for 10 bucks, you can find these for 10 bucks, you're $10 away. But also you take that same thing and and put a flash through it. They make flashes for the iPhone. Yeah, they're not that soft. Until you fire one through that one soft diffuser, all of a sudden, you're getting results that you would swear that you shot with a DSLR or a mirrorless. Because the quality of the light is fantastic. And by the way, the iPhone does great in great light. Like that's its secret weapon, its secret weapon is if it's nice and bright outside, it'll rocket but when you're shooting outside, people don't look that good, right? And bucks. I'm telling you, it's a different world. And I show side by side examples that are stunning. Like you look at that you're like, I will never photograph a person without a window of the user in my life. And I give all kinds of other examples. But that's typical of the kind of things that I talk about. How do you use diffuser? Why do you use one how to use one with a flash? How to use a flash? You know, all that kind of stuff?

Gary Pageau  17:51  
When do you use a flash?

Scott Kelby  17:53  
It's just one thing. You know, it's just that's one little thing in your bag of tricks.

Gary Pageau  17:57  
But it's the same bag. What's interesting is with this stuff, your time it's the same bag. It's just a different device.

Scott Kelby  18:02  
Yeah, it is. It's  the same stuff that I've been teaching. And I have a book called The natural light photography book that is for DSLR and mirrorless. And there's there's a whole chapter on that using diffusers, big ones, little ones, because you can get big ones that you can, you know, shoot a wedding party under and you know, there's all kinds of things that you can do. But yeah, I mean, but that's typical stuff where we're going away from the standard stuff that you would normally do with a photographer with a DSLR. And and we're gonna apply it to the phone and

Gary Pageau  18:33  
is the only thing you can do on the phone. I'm going to reverse it. Okay, you can do on a DSLR and other

Scott Kelby  18:43  
Oh, well, you know what it is you can do the same stuff. It's just so much easier on the phone, right? For example, I was doing a workshop in China at the end of 2019, not in Wuhan. And we're shooting these fishermen in the lake and they're casting their nets. And I've got my DSLR and I'm setting up all this stuff and I got this big tripod I got all this junk. And the the others inspector that's with me. His wife walks over and she holds up her iPhone, and she shows me this picture. It's video and all of a sudden it goes to slow mo. Slow Mo you see these fishermen. It's in slow motion. It was amazing. I'm like, could I do that on my? Well, I don't know I'd have to get on my computer and have to shoot regular video, go to my computer, apply a slow mo effect. This was brilliant because I don't know if you know the iPhone. It starts the photo in real in real time. And then it slows it. So you see this fisherman Yeah. So you see this fisherman and he's throwing the thing and it's and it freezes in and then it goes to Super slomo it's incredible now well I'm sitting out there shooting right we're at dawn shooting out here in the middle of nowhere China. She is posting the history. shots, which looked fantastic, by the way, to Instagram, right? And I'm thinking, I'm four hours from that, yeah, I gotta take a boat back to the shore, I gotta jump in a bus, I got to switch buses at some point to a car, I got to drive to my hotel, I got to download my photos, I got to put them on my computer, I got to crop them, I got to edit them, then I have to save them back to my phone. So I can import them to Instagram. And she's standing in the middle of nowhere and doing it and I'm like, What am I doing here? Well, you know, it's

Gary Pageau  20:29  
interesting. You mentioned that because that's something that's come up a few times with previous guests in the podcast is about the the inability, it appears for the camera, traditional camera makers to make their devices more competitive. Right? I like for example, I don't understand why there can't be a a cellular connection in a DSLR. Right, so you could exactly do that.

Scott Kelby  20:59  
They could absolutely be the problem is now you have to pay for a second one. Right? That's kind of that. So in your phone you're already paying?

Gary Pageau  21:07  
I mean, I mean, you can have a you know, it's funny there Apple sonett. Now where you can have an out, you can have a cell connection to your Apple Watch, and people are paying for that. I mean, you know, I'm just saying is I think it's interesting how, from the Japanese camera manufacturer standpoint, they seem to be focused so much on lens quality. Yeah, those type of differentiators, that with the computational photography that Apple has been able to put in the iPhone, they've they've kind of negated that advantage to some extent,

Scott Kelby  21:39  
yes, they absolutely have. And they're doing things without computational photography. Well, here's the thing, just look at this, this is a simple thing. You mentioned portrait mode. And for those of you listeners who are not familiar with portrait mode, it blurs the background behind your subject to make it look like you took it with an expensive camera. And it does a brilliant job. But here's the thing that this is where the computational, that is part of the computational photography. But here's the mind blower. After you've taken the photo, you can go into the Apple's own Photos app, and change how blurry The background is, right? You can take the blur out, you can put way more blur in, you can't do that. Does that mean they made a camera called the lighter ones that that was the idea that later? Well, it's in the iPhone today, it's there. And you can go say, Alright, I want to make this a 1.8 aperture and you just slide your finger to the left of the background. I'm telling you, it's just that kind of stuff. And and that's really what it is. It's the ease and immediacy of what they're doing. So they're doing things sometimes that your your camera can't do at all. And then when they're doing things that your DSLR camera can do, they're just doing it easier, faster, quicker, and then you can share it. And and you're right, the camera companies are like, hey, let's let's focus on sharp lenses and apples. Like let's make cool stuff easy for everybody. Unless let them do stuff that that even pros are having to take a long time, they have to wait till they get back to their laptop. And you know, apples like this is our computer. This is it, we're going to edit in here. And to make an image black and white to do to add motion. You know, like for example, it just as a little tip, when you're shooting pictures with your phone. If at any time you decide you want to shoot video, you just click on the shutter button and drag to the right and it starts shooting video. Right? While you're shooting stills, right. And by the way, you can do the opposite when you're shooting video. If you look on screen, there's a little white button. That's a shutter button. You can take stills while you're taking video. I mean, it's they're just doing things that just you ask your DSLR to do that. They're like, Oh no, we either shoot video, or we shoot stills. We don't do both. And the iPhones goes yeah, absolutely. We do both. I'm telling you, it's Gary. It's terrifying what they're doing with the iPhone. I had to write that book.

Gary Pageau  24:02  
So I have a question. So one of the advantages of course an iPhone has is you can do apps you are in you know, Apple's built in app is gray. Are there any other apps you recommend that people try out to play with besides besides the usual Instagram and Oh no, I'm

Scott Kelby  24:21  
going to give you one I'm going to give you a great one. It's called lens distortions. Okay? It's so cheap. And I'm telling you what it allows you to do because the name is really it's not a good name. But what it allows you to do is add all kinds of things effects to your photos like like lens flares, and suns and the sun peeking in and fog and just all this different stuff that you add to your photos that take them to another level and all I do every time I look at it is go Why doesn't Photoshop have this? Okay, this should be part of Photoshop. I can do it on my phone for like 99 cents and it's great. It's so much better than you think. Because my, my description does not do it justice because it sounds like I don't really want to add that until you see all the things that doesn't you just drag and drop them, you take your finger and say, Ooh, that looks really cool. You drag it into your photo, and then you move it on the screen the way you want. And then you can decide if you want it brighter or not. And you know, that's like a hot thing with portraits right now all this backlit lens flare stuff that you see on Instagram. You're one tap away, it's so cool. It's really it's and it works great on landscapes, you can make stuff look like space. It's it's all kinds of fireworks, it's all this different stuff. It's It's amazing. So that is my number one pick lens distortion distortion.

Gary Pageau  25:44  
I think that's one of the things that has been underestimated in terms of how people interact with a camera phone versus a traditional camera is the camera phone allows you to experiment much more easily with an image. Oh, yeah. Then even when you get it to your desktop, right, if you once you're in a desktop, it's not as I would say it's not as intuitive but it's definitely more of a it's a it's a less free flowing process. I think rather than just sliding stuff around on your finger.

Scott Kelby  26:17  
Oh, yeah, it's so intuitive. You know, it's and, and it's all built in, you don't have to use a whole bunch of different crazy things. Like I always tell people, if you want to have fun with your photo, take the photo and then swipe up. And all of a sudden, here comes all these new features. And you're like, wait a minute I can I can animate this photo, you know, it's like, it does so many things behind the scenes, and you're just one click away. It's stuff that you could do in Photoshop, you just have to be really good at Photoshop. You don't have to be really good at the Photos app. It's just all right there. And then I think that's a great equalizer. I think that gives people an opportunity to do things with their, with their images that that were out of reach for most people that weren't like Photoshop experts.

Gary Pageau  26:59  
So throwing this back out to to your core audience like the professional photographer, how do they react to this in the marketplace, when you know, Uncle Joe thinks he's a pro with an iPhone,

Scott Kelby  27:10  
they are very, very defensive about it, I can tell you, they're very, very defensive. So the communities kind of split into two groups. There's this to visit, I'm sorry, there's, there's this not to it's not a to it's a group. There's one group, there's one group that's like, I can see where this is going, I can see that this is the future. And I'm tired of carrying a heavy camera. So I'm okay with this. And there's the other side that says I don't want to be wrong. I've spent a lot of time learning this stuff, I spent a lot of time perfecting it. And I don't want Uncle Joe to come along and kind of take my wedding gig, right. But the reality of it is is Apple is innovating faster than anybody faster than canon Sony Nikon combined. They're doing stuff that the camera companies can only dream of as you met, as you pointed out earlier. And so I mean, don't have a choice. They're gonna keep making the cameras better and better. Hey, do you want to hear it? interesting statistic? Do you know how many people at Apple are working on just the camera? Like how many I read this in an article, just people working on the camera at Apple over 800 full time people just work on the camera? Because the main one of the main reasons if not the main reason people upgrade their camera from version to version and update their phone is to get a better camera, right? a better photo experience. I mean, you don't pick up your phone and look at it and go. I wish I could make a call. There were apps. I mean, it was all that stuff. What's the one thing that can continually get better and better and better and make you want to buy a new phone? It's why I bought my phone because I wanted a better camera?

Gary Pageau  28:47  
Well, you know, it's interesting you said because if you look at your typical iPhone ad, it's a camera at huh I mean that's what they're that that's what they're promoting or that's what they're using. differentiator is the camera not phone quality not you can you can listen to all your music on it or anything like that. It's Yeah, it is interesting when you think about it, that it's really, you know, the camera industry is completely shifted in a completely different direction. Yeah, and

Scott Kelby  29:22  
what will happen is, I mean, you're gonna have and for my prediction for the for the traditional camera industry, is that they're not you're not they're not going away. DSLRs and mirrorless aren't going away, but they will be the tools of professionals like people who make their living because you don't want to spit pay some photographer $5,000 he shows up with his phone. Right? Right. That's a quick way to get far he's gonna

Gary Pageau  29:46  
have one of those. Those stop and a half shields that you talked about. They're gonna he's gonna want those.

Scott Kelby  29:54  
Yeah. A lot of equipment. Because if you hire somebody to shoot your wedding for $5,000 and they To show up with a phone, you're going to be pretty upset, right? So there will be people that will still make their living and have their advantages. I mean, you know, it's hard to shoot pro sports with an iPhone, right? You know, you're not gonna see a bunch of people on the sideline though I do see people on the sidelines, I shoot, you know, NFL and different sports, and I look over and there's someone shooting video or doing time lapse or doing something with their phone. So there are people that you will run on into maybe two or three people per game out of the 70 or 80 photographers that are on a sideline of a game. But it's not a sports camera. You know, it's like it's not a wildlife camera at this point. But I'm telling you what, when Apple does, and you know, they're going to find a way to incorporate a zoom lens. And what we've seen some other manufacturers doing is taking the lens, great for this, they turn it sideways, because nobody wants the lens to extend out of the body. They turn it sideways inside the body and they use a mirror using a mirror like a DSLR to get you telephoto lenses. So that's what's next, I think, I think when Apple finally introduces because that's the one thing they've got the wide angle now, right? They're super wide angle is 13 millimeters. It's awesome. Right? There's a wide angle camera is incredible. And that was missing. What you always had was basically you had a standard wide angle, and that was it. And then the zoom that isn't really a zoom. Right? They added that wide angle that was a changer for me. That's when I realized Okay, this is it's it's on? Yeah, so when they add the telephoto, what's gonna happen to the traditional camera photo manufacturers?

Gary Pageau  31:40  
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's gonna be hard. I mean, again, like you said, there will always be a segment of the industry that will need you know, the, the mirrorless format because a specialized lenses or they're shooting a lot of underwater or something like that, you know, certainly there will be architectural stuff like that. Yeah. But there's gonna be more and more people are going to have their needs fulfilled. Like, like, is it Uncle Joe, who maybe had a DSLR that he used because he was a hobbyist? Well, you can be a full fledged hobbyist without that now.

Scott Kelby  32:14  
Yeah. Yeah. And you're you already have this one camera. You're already carrying it with you. Are you gonna carry another? Yeah. No, no, how many cameras you need to carry on vacation?

Gary Pageau  32:28  
Well, I recommend carrying as many as possible. But that's what I'm old school. So that's, that's part of mine. So So listen, Scott Tell, tell people when the book is going to be out and where they can get it.

Scott Kelby  32:44  
So Amazon is showing a date of March 9, as the print version is in stock, you can get the Kindle version right now. Barnes and Noble will have it around the same time and wherever fine books are sold. So any one of those places I would say by the you know, by March 10 we'll we'll be in most stores awesome.

Gary Pageau  33:04  
And where can people find out more about you and what you do?

Scott Kelby  33:09  
I write a daily blog. That's about you know, photography and Photoshop and stuff at Scott Kelby calm, and I'm on Instagram as Scott Kelby and I'm on Twitter is Scott Kilby and Facebook is s Kelby.

Gary Pageau  33:23  
So you're everywhere. Yeah, you have a tick tock is my question. Do you have a tick tock yet?

Scott Kelby  33:27  
I do not. I do not have. My daughter does my son does does that count?

Gary Pageau  33:34  
It does not count. I want to see you're doing some dancing on the Tiktok one of these days. Yes.

Scott Kelby  33:38  
See, that's the main thing that's kept me off is knowing I would have to dance.

Gary Pageau  33:45  
Well, thank you Scott for your time. Congratulations on the book and best wishes for a great 2021

Scott Kelby  33:51  
Thanks so much, Gary.