A different approach to school photography, with Annie Poissant, Fotosko

Gary Pageau of the Dead Pixels Society talks with Annie Poissant, of Fotosko, a Quebec portrait and school photography company. Poissant talks about her company's unusual approach to environmental school portraits and how that led her to become owner and director of Photosuite Canada, a company offering a managed services solution for Canadian independent volume photographers as well as the distributor of Netlife Photosuite PRO solution in North America.

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Transcript

Gary Pageau  
 Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixel Society podcast. I'm your host, Gary Pageau. And today we're joined by Annie Poissant, the founder of Fotosko, a volume photography firm based near Montreal. Hello, Annie, how are you today?

Annie Poissant  
I'm pretty good yourself.

Gary Pageau  
So any you have an interesting background prior to getting into the school and volume photography business about five years ago? Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, I call myself like, you know, I have like the mini wheat syndrome. For all my life. I was like, in between, you know, science and Fine Arts. And like orienteer at school says that, you know, you cannot love math, if you like, you know, heart, it was impossible, but here I am. So my whole life was in between, like the business and art side always like struggling to get a balance. So I've studied at Concordia University in fine arts, and also in women in the fine arts. But always work after that in sales and marketing.

Gary Pageau  
Okay.

Annie Poissant  
So, so that was like, quite, you know, quite different. But, you know, I really had like a strong business sight. But then in 2012, I got a car accident.

Gary Pageau  
Okay, I'm sorry to hear that.

Annie Poissant  
So yeah, but now I'm okay. So I did a lot RSD or it's called, like, crsp English, like, our regional pain syndrome, whatever. So got me out of work. Because I was on, you know, on disease leave. And then my husband said, I was really interested in photo. So he bought me my first Nikon. And I had like a teacher who came at my house and show me like, how to, you know, shoot in manual mode, like,

Gary Pageau  
and from the ground up? You mean? Yep.

Annie Poissant  
Yep. And that was it. I just like, I can kind of save me in a way. Because I focus, like, just discover a new passion. And, you know, for all my life, my medium was painting, and but I never had the connection that I have with photo.

Gary Pageau  
Okay. So, um, what style of painting did you have? And what was it like, you know, realistic, impressionist, modern?

Annie Poissant  
How can I say that I was putting color on a canvas with a lot of, you know, diluted like, so it was kind of, you know, really washy color, and then it was mixing and then I saw, always, like, see something in it, like faces, and then I go from there and develop it. So it was always with like, human kind of, but always floating.

Gary Pageau  
I was just seeing if there was a connection between your visual style with painting and photography.

Annie Poissant  
I'm not I'm really into portraits. Like, Oh,

Gary Pageau  
well, whether you said you were looking for the face in the painting and now Yeah.

Annie Poissant  
Yeah. And really, I'm this buttress, but you're on his side, as well. So

Gary Pageau  
So for a lot of people, though, in your situation where they're, they're maybe learning photography as a as a means of expression, a hobby or whatever. They don't make the leap to make it into the business side of it, especially relatively quickly as you did. I mean, what just a few years before you open up your business. Can you talk about that evolution of kind of going from the hobbyist to the business person.

Annie Poissant  
It all started. My youngest son was in kindergarten and his teacher was Like, just amazing. So I wanted to give her something, you know, special. So I went on a date off in the classroom take picture of all the kids, while they were throwing something for her. And I just make a photo album with all the drawings and the kid picture. And I have like two copies printed. So one for the teacher, one for my son. The teacher was like, it's the best gift ever. Yeah, of course, of course. And then I receive. Yeah, so and then all the kids talk to their parents parents asked me, they wanted to have that photo book, as well, because there were a picture of like, each kid has, you know, his picture and his drawing and it little sentence and everything. So it was like a, you know, like a photo group in a book. Sure. So I received a call from the parents, but it was really like a volunteer experience for me, Oh, I forgot it. Like, I didn't charge anything, just a guest cover my class. And the parents just asked me, you know, that's the type of picture that you'd like to have, you know, from school, not the traditional portrait, we're kind of sick and tired of those kind of birth rates. We never, they don't look like our kids, you know, it's really stiff, and so on. So this is how it started.

Gary Pageau  
So when you started in the School of Business, did you how did you get clients and market that? I mean, you know, obviously, I'm sure there's a lot of schools that, you know, have a lot of parents who say, I can do your school pictures for you. And the person doesn't have the skills. So a How did you start? How did you learn the skills?

Annie Poissant  
So, like, I just started from scratch.

Gary Pageau  
I mean, what were some of the resources you you look at this because clearly if you've if you've done some business and marketing in the past, then you knew there was more to it than just showing up with a camera bag. And

Annie Poissant  
yeah, totally told me so well, the first album just became the year after I did like several album for this school. And I asked for permission to the parents to use their the kids picture. So started to create my websites started to create a brochure. And I've asked like the secretary, can you show me you know, what kind of advertising you receive every year. So I base myself upon that, and I wanted to be really different, because I wanted to have like, the concept of, you know, candid pictures and. And so I have to, to, to have a different approach. I also have like, a precise idea of what I wanted to as a webshop. Because, you know, I am a photographer, but I am also a mother of three kids. And, you know, when you buy picture every year is like you have to think Okay, so how many five by seven or eight by 10? doing? So, and then you have to Okay, which package should I take? Oh, this one, but I think No. Okay, so you always end up having like, sorry, but to to too many mini picture. And I just moved last summer and I can't tell you my oldest is at university right now. And I still have so many unused picture in a file, you know, I mean, small little prints, small little prints or wherever because you know, release, basically you need like most like this five by seven and eight by deck. So, um,

Gary Pageau  
I draw

Annie Poissant  
like the solution that I wanted and I did my research on the web to find like the workflow cuz I'm really really I'm really like, efficiencies or to like pronounce it but I think I need to I like innovation. I like that everything. You know, I love technology. So I want to everything be automated. So I was looking for that my dream workflow in the market and couldn't find it. So I approached a developer and realize how much money I said, well, let's go back to Google. And, you know, did you make more? Yeah,

Gary Pageau  
I mean, at this point, what size was your business? I mean, you do. I mean, you're looking at developing software. Never did you have employees? Did you have no studio?

Annie Poissant  
I'm, I'm crazy. Okay. Right. I crazy. It's like, it's always like think big. And you know, okay. Yeah, it was it doesn't matter. I didn't. I really had that idea that I didn't want to use slide paper.

Gary Pageau  
Sure. You know, so, so the contactless thing which is trendy now you were looking at five years ago?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, totally. And finally, after, you know, assist, a lot of demos from you know, a lot of players in the market, I discovered net five, in Norway, which was for Canada was disputed by hvp. solution. So I just, I just took like the whole, like the pro version, I was kind of crazy, really, because usually, you know, usually, the pro version is like, for 10,000 heads per year

had like, zero help per year. And I bought it. So I was that crazy. But honestly, I'm still with it today. And it's like, just perfect. And the webshop was what I wanted, because the parents was were able to mix and match their, their picture of their even have, you know, if they have two kids, they can do a collage and right, so it was really innovative. And brand new, I was the first one in Canada to to integrate MetLife and to have that webshop.

Gary Pageau  
So So from a workflow standpoint, how does this work in the field? For those people who aren't familiar with MetLife?

Annie Poissant  
Okay. So because I was doing, you know, candid picture, you know, in the classroom, I really had to find a way to identify and match the data with the picture. Sure. So. So you have like, the QR code. So it's really like that, it's really simple. Because just cool. Just, they sent their nameless through the school portal, we have like a school portal, and then those those these data is transformed into qR. So you take the QR and then you shot the kid. And then you put back the QR codes and a picture in the system. And everything is automated. So

Gary Pageau  
So then, how do the parents see the proofs then? Or see that order product? How do they How do they see that job? Do they get the code of some sort? Or how does that happen?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah. And that was different to remember five years ago, having to email a deaf parents email was kind of really new.

Gary Pageau  
Yeah. Especially since I think, especially in Canada, you have a lot of privacy concerns there.

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did have a complaint about that. And I had like, to go with the board. And, you know, everything is perfect now. But yeah, there was that app for privacy, but it's, it's this cool responsibility, in fact, to to, to look,

Gary Pageau  
so how long does it take from the time the exposure is taken till the parent sees the proof in on their phone or whenever?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, on their phone. It's always depending on, you know, I'm a bit crazy to about the editing process. And now thanks God to image they are doing the job for us. So that's so much more. That's amazing. Who is that? It's image shalom. They're based in Montreal in Montreal. And they do. It's an editing studio. They are amazing and working with photographers around the world.

Gary Pageau  
So so you're not really doing traditional school portraits per se, in the sense you're doing the up against the screen and giving people the chance to look at their backgrounds and change the backgrounds and maybe that's the limit of the editing, maybe retouch. little here and there your product is positioned more as a keepsake of the school. Right? So it's more of a portrait type thing.

Annie Poissant  
It's more of a portrait. And, you know, it's like, it's, it's to give the kids a real memory, you know, guys, you know, having the background of his classroom, you know, I was going through my school picture, I'm 46 now, but it didn't change that much like, you know, the type of picture that we take. So the point is, it didn't change, but you could see the evolution of the child.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah.

Annie Poissant  
And you know, the photo industry changed so much. But that's the part of the school and the photography industry that just still a bit old school,

Gary Pageau  
right, let's

Annie Poissant  
say. So I didn't have any memory. I can't recall all my classroom was and you know, it was that like, it was not like emotional, I just like, you know, you focus on Oh, my god, did you see my hair and my hair? And my coats? And,

Gary Pageau  
you know, it's interesting, you said, because you're talking about the child almost as the customer as opposed to the parent.

Annie Poissant  
When you know what, I realized that a lot of people thinks that these picture are not for the parents. They are for the grandparents.

Gary Pageau  
Right.

Annie Poissant  
Okay. It's really funny, but you know, what, maybe today, like the grandparents will enjoy it more. But in 20 years, grandparents won't be there anymore. So right has to be, you know, a real memory, you know, something that's really emotional for the kid and to remember out the kid was, also it's really important for

Gary Pageau  
the personality you're trying to catch.

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, yeah. And

Gary Pageau  
so, so the team must take I mean, my experience with covering the volume photography business, though, it's very much you've got 13 to 18 seconds to capture an image. Right. So how long is this taking to do this what you're talking about? It's gotta be I mean, it's not a I mean, obviously, this isn't for everybody. This isn't a solution for this approach. approach is not for everybody. And I don't think you're trying to pretend that it is. But I'm just curious in terms of the process, how long do you get per kid? Do you think?

Annie Poissant  
I'm usually would like with two photographers, we will be there. Let's say 35 minutes per group. per class. Yeah. So one minute a kid proximately. Yeah. And a bit more sometimes, because we're working to photographers. So okay, the concept evolved a bit because the parents still want to have like, you know, a shot, like, where the kid looks at the camera, and you don't see any, any other kids in the background. So that's the grandma picture. But still, we do it with a lot of fun in the classroom. And because we do it in the classroom, and that was prior to COVID. The kids are in their comfort zone. Okay. So they are much more relaxed and natural. And you know, for us, like, it's kind of a party and and when the kids they saw the hereafter it's like, oh, yeah, it's Do you like it, and they remember, you know, the silly names that we say, and it's really like, interacting a bit more with the kids.

Gary Pageau  
I do think that is interesting, because in the traditional school environment, the photographer was set up in the gym and the line people up and they'll have 12 to 13 seconds to take a picture, right? But you're reaching the students, like you said, where they feel most comfortable or relaxed and imagined. There's a lot of positive energy and chemistry in that room.

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, totally, totally. And like, the best thing that you know, the best comment I can have from a parent is like, Oh, my God, this is so much my kid. You just capture who he is really, you know, and that's what I want to remember. A few years you know, like showing personality, instead of taking a pose,

Gary Pageau  
so from the business side, yeah. How? How are the sales compared to what do you think would be a traditional sitting? Are people buying more? Do you think? Because it is such a personalized experience as opposed to a?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, the sales rates are pretty good. The prices that we do charges really in the market, maybe a bit more. But we cannot just go below that, you know. But, but because the way the webshop is structure, it's more expensive. Yes. And no, because parents, you know, if they don't have a lot of money, they can buy just, let's say they have to get they can buy one sheet and put, you know, a picture of each kid on it. Okay, so that's our way of

Gary Pageau  
going by that. So you're selling per sheet, basically, on some of these most of these packages?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, well, the week worse is basically it's you have to every volume for the Murphy's printing on eight by 10 sheets, right? So you're purchasing like, five by seven, you get to five by seven on an eight D, eight by 10. Sheet. So basically, like, if you have like a package in our webshop have four sheets? Well, it's like, if you have like four blank sheet, and you put whatever you want on it. So that's a great value for the parents.

Gary Pageau  
And your customers are comfortable doing that. They, I mean, how much how much training or support, you have to provide for parents for that sort of model. Because what I want I'm picturing is that there's a blank sheet on a screen, and they're dragging and dropping pictures on there to basically make their fill up the page, if you will.

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, but you know, this system will show a preview, and they will like be default template assigned to the sheets. And so they don't see a blank sheet, it's already filled up. But they can change the layout. If they want, they can change the pose. So it's not as Friday. And we also have like, you know, a package that is an easy, easy, breezy, it's like, you choose one post, and there's a picture will go everywhere. That's it. So if you're not fitting comfortable, just use this one, and you're good to go.

Gary Pageau  
And what are you seeing with people buying the digital file or the download? Are people allowed to do that?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, of course. And I'm a really, I really believe that prints and digital together is the best thing. Cuz who knows, in 10 years, if we will be able to look at JPEGs. Right? You know,

Gary Pageau  
so one thing is, I think people who just buy the download, maybe have the intention of printing later, but then they don't bother. Right? Or they you know, they get busy to lose track. And so what so when your your images are printed, how were they being printed? Are they being printed through a lab? Or how,

Annie Poissant  
yeah, and everything is automated. So I don't have to, you know, take orders or, you know, the cells don't just go through the system. And when the free school did every time is up, I just leave, I release the orders and they go to the lab, and then they go to school.

Gary Pageau  
Do you see much interest in other ancillary products besides prints, like, you know, ornaments or cards or anything like that? Or have you gotten involved in much of that side of the business?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, I do. And I, one of the goal is really to develop our own, you know, also design, we're working on it and to create, you know, like, each year, I new collections to be always up to date. So worth right. You know, I was really surprised that people buy ornaments and things like that, but yeah, they do. They do sell a lot. Grandma likes the ornaments. See? Yeah. 

Gary Pageau  
I know, Grandma, that's great.

Annie Poissant  
Yeah. But you know, like the, the first concept was like the collage, you know, just to have like something that looks good on your wall. And more modern, you know, that's really important.

Gary Pageau  
So you've also made the leap. To the vendor side of the business, right, where you're now a distributor of the, the net life suite of products, the way to say that you talk a little bit about why you decided to do that as if you weren't busy enough?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, I told you I'm crazy a bit. Um, well, you know, this fall, I was like, you know, and peak season, and at the lunchtime, I just look at a Facebook group. And, you know, there was like, in a full refer groups, and I was reading, you know, photographer going to a nursery or a school and they were charging so little. And they had to do like so much, you know, it's a lot of manual labor. Right? If you do that on your own, it's crazy. And there's a lot of, you know, school requirement that you don't really know how to handle and things like that. And just Customer service is really, really intense and everything happening at the same time, you know. So I was like, a way that I can have other photographer access my portal in my system, and he can use it. So I was like, trying to find a solution. And I've contact Glen. Glen Nelson at hvp, with the distributor for Australia. And I asked him, is there a way I can do that? And he said, you know, what, we're just launching photo suite light photo link light, which is like exactly what you're talking about. And that was it. And after that I was able to to distribute like the pro version of it?

Gary Pageau  
And also, what does that mean, the pro version? What? Because there's a service component to it, right? For the light.

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, you know, with the light version, all the photographer has have to do is like three step, create a job. So import the data into system, shoot the picture with the Jarkko. And put everything back into software, right? It did it or not edited, because we can also do the editing for now. After that they're done. That's it. We do take care of everything else. So we will like quality assurance that the job, we will release the job on the webshop we will even take care of the customer service. So every email and phone calls, and I'm telling you there is a lot for school.

Gary Pageau  
Oh, sure. Yeah. No, yeah, I know very well, that this is not a hands off process.

Annie Poissant  
No. You know, and it's, I'm always surprised, I'm always say, Oh, I'm not saving life. It's just like, school picture, you know, but it's like, the parent can call you if you don't answer right away, they can call you like five times in a row but so we take care of that. We take care of the printing think after shipping and then we distribute back the money to the photographer. And that's it. So the photographs are really can focus on what he loves to do. Right take pictures,

Gary Pageau  
right? So that's that now is that the lighter the pro version?

Annie Poissant  
So that's the light version like that's Yeah, so that's really good for you know, someone that does

Gary Pageau  
like yourself when you were starting out, that's what you wanted.

Annie Poissant  
Honestly, if I could have that, oh my god, I you know, we always we also educate them and help them through the process of growing their business. And oh, I would have saved myself so much.

Gary Pageau  
Right? So much time.

Annie Poissant  
So that's the lite version and the pro version usually is is said or more to 10,000 ads and more for a year. So a bit bigger studio I and and then they they can you know, customize everything. It's their own portal with their name with their everything with their packages, and you You know, so and we do, we do take them from step one, until the full implementation. So it's a process is different with the live version, download the software, do the job. And you know, you're good to go, it's really you're good to go. With the implementation you take about it takes about a month, you know, to be really, to set everything up, right.

Gary Pageau  
So what possessed you to want to take that on besides being crazy?

Annie Poissant  
It's part of me, I like to always like to help others, you know, to grow. I love to sex, I love to the success. And I love the community side of it, too, you know, like, getting togethers, you know, being photographed for is a lot of soul thing. You know?

Gary Pageau  
Yep. by yourself. Yeah,

Annie Poissant  
by yourself. And, you know, there's a bit there's a community of, you know, volume photography in the US, but there's not really one in Canada. Right. So it's really part of my ambition to develop one and, and to make that kind of photography. It a good photography business, as it's, it's I think it seems a bit more like, you know, that low key photographers, but you can do really great things, you know, and that guy, so.

Gary Pageau  
So, there's another piece to the photo sweet.ca business, right? You're like, the North American distributor. Is that correct?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah. I'm an artist. And distributor. Yeah.

Gary Pageau  
So even somebody in the US who wants to tap into this system can tap into it. So yeah. How did that come about? Where all of a sudden, you know, you're in a relatively small area north of Montreal, and now you're across a continent.

Annie Poissant  
Thanks to COVID

Gary Pageau  
we can zoom everywhere now. Yeah,

Annie Poissant  
I even moved to you know, I was born in the suburb really near Montreal before. And now I'm by the lake full time, you know, full time. It's crazy. I love it. I'm lucky. But yeah. Now we can connect to people and we can work together, thanks to technology. You know, I think that's one of the good sides. If I may say, you know, maybe what COVID made us realize and, and, and, you know, COVID was not a good time for anyone. Photographers, you know, if you're doing like carpet shots, or, uh, you know, like, all the business wear clothes, it was really hard. You know, I'm thinking even like the wedding photographer.

Gary Pageau  
Oh, yeah. You know, you were hit hard.

Annie Poissant  
They were hit hard. And even like, with the photo sweet light, they can take and use it, you will say, Oh, you know, wedding is that, you know, is that volume photography thing. But it can be guys, while you're there, everyone looks nice. So you can do picture, you know, of the attendees. And you can sell them to that solution, like for the linkfor a suite. So but I don't know, it's like, world is a small place now. I was even Arey, from net life even introduced me to a school full of effort in South Africa. Okay. And that was really nice, you know, to compare the market and you know, what is their friend and one day I want to, you know, another dream of mine. crazy dream is like to do like a worldwide project, you know, with school photographers to have like a worldwide portrait of the students around the world. You know, that could be so nice, you know, to do something like that.

Gary Pageau  
That would be kind of cool. So you got big dream. So you're looking forward as we move forward into 2021. What do you hope to see happen and accomplish

Annie Poissant  
Well, really To our other photographer to drive into business to start, or just to be more efficient, and to save them all the stress, right? And all the, you know,

I was pretending that I know, I knew everything, and I knew nothing like nothing, you know,

Gary Pageau  
like, even honestly, that's the case with a lot of photographers, when they start out is, you know, they just put it on manual or program and go through and I know how to take a picture. And it's like, especially in this portrait or the volume of business, it's not like that at all. Taking the actual picture is probably the least tricky part of the business.

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, in volume photography. Yeah. But not when you do the kind of portrait that we do, because the light is different everywhere. And you know, sometimes

Gary Pageau  
the light you're not bringing in light stands or anything, you're just using available light on the classroom.

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, with the crow. reflectors. So yeah, cuz we don't have like the time to set up. And so we have to adjust. Because sometimes the classroom is like, red or orange on three walls. Yeah, this is really, really hard. Right?

Gary Pageau  
So you have to be, you have to think on your feet when you're there. Right? Yeah. Because you don't know what it is you go from room to room, you don't know what the lights gonna be?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, totally.

Gary Pageau  
Or is there a specific training you've developed for your people for that?

Annie Poissant  
Yeah, we do have, we do have like, a systematic video, step by step guide that we take the photographer through. So in both, you know, in both in the light version, and the pro version, you know, it's different, of course. But it's really it's really nice. I'm in in implementing the pro version right now with a new suit you. It is so great, you know, we share things and, and even like templates, you know, we share, it's like, it's great, you know, when you can get all together instead of you know, competing and just shareable the resource. Yeah. And we will all be better together.

Gary Pageau  
And hopefully sometime in 2021. We will we will actually be together in the same room. Yeah,

Annie Poissant  
in the same room, taking a plane and you know, that would be awesome.

Gary Pageau  
Oh, well thank you any for your time and wishing you the best in your new ventures, and have a great 2021

Annie Poissant  
Thank you. Same to you, Gary.