The Right Mentor Can Change Your Life And Business, with Anthony Spark

Anthony Spark of Spark a Change Coaching, Long Island, NY,  talks about business growth through mentorship and leadership development. Spark describes an entrepreneurial childhood in a dysfunctional family, working full-time at 15, and choosing direct sales at 18 after meeting successful mentors, which helped him develop skills in finance, relationships, communication, sales, organization, and time management, and leave a full-time job at 25. He emphasizes that success came more from coaching, personal development, and low-risk entry than from products, and warns about the time and opportunity cost of equipping people and treating mentors transactionally. They discuss matching roles to personalities, managing outputs over preferences, paying for A players versus training younger staff, and building culture.

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Transcript

Sponsors And Welcome

Erin Manning 0:00

The Dead Pixels Society Podcast is brought to you by Media Clip, Advertek Printing, and Independent Photo Imagers. Welcome to the Dead Pixels Society Podcast, the photoimaging industry's leading news source. Here's your host, Gary Pageau.

Gary Pageau 0:17

Hello again, and welcome to the Dead Pixels Society Podcast. I'm your host, Gary Pageau. And today we're joined by Anthony Spark, who's who is with Spark a Change Coaching, and he's coming to us from Long Island, New York today. And he's going to share with us ideas on how to initiate some growth in your business. Hi, Anthony. How are you today?

Anthony Spark 0:37

Thanks for having me, Gary. Looking forward to chatting with the Dead Pixel Society. It's a very cool name.

Gary Pageau 0:42

Initially, what was your interest in business? You were telling me before we started recording that you started very young in the business. Tell me a little bit about instead of chasing the girls, you were chasing the money. What was that about?

Mentors And Real Skill Building

Anthony Spark 0:53

Thankfully, I've been with my wife since we're 20. But I came from a really dysfunctional family. My dad was in prison. My mom was a single mom. I was working full-time at 15. I wanted to buy stuff. My mom needed money. So I worked for starting full-time in ninth grade. But I was always entrepreneurial. I'd sell polished stones. I'd buy candy at the store, start out by backpack, stop bringing books. A lot more profitable. I'd make like a hundred bucks a day when I was like in fifth grade. So I always had an entrepreneurial mind and a desire. But right before I turned 18, I was on the track to go to med school. So I was going to go to med school. I figured I wanted to make a lot of money. I didn't want to be poor anymore. And I was. So I said, let me do something that's going to make money, but I also want to do something that helped people. So I figured I'd become a doctor. I wasn't passionate about being a doctor. I was passionate about those other two things. But when I was 18, a friend of mine, he worked at a ski place, but he told me he met someone that said he was going to retire at 28. And I never heard of that. There is no Mr. Beast. There is no Instagram. I thought you were either born rich or you worked your whole life. So I said, I'd do anything to have that kind of a life. And I said it might be. But first of all, if it is a scam, I got nothing for anyone to get. This guy's the worst scam artist ever. And secondly, my family are criminals. So it's probably more dangerous for him to meet me than it is to meet for him. If he's not legit, I'm not worried about meeting a guy in Starbucks. But I got to know him, his family, and they were some of the most successful people in the direct sales industry. And they had an amazing life. And he was able to make a great income and be with his family. And I said, this is the life that I want. So I was really lucky that I met really good people that had an amazing business opportunity for them. And they mentored and they coached me. And I've been doing that for 20 years. And that left me let me leave my full-time job, my full-time income at 25. And so that was my introduction to business. And I've been doing that since.

Gary Pageau 2:32

There's a lot of talk about direct sales as an industry and all that. And you just touched on something that was super important, which is the importance of mentoring or coaching. Because that's think, especially in the sales world, that's where it falls apart. There's not enough mentoring, there's not enough coaching where people are just thrown out to the wolves. Here's some leads, go call them, yep, and go for it. So, what kind of things did your mentor help you with starting out green at the age of 18?

Anthony Spark 2:59

Yeah, when you're 18, they got to help you with everything. And that's the thing that most people aren't willing to do. I find in when we're talking about leadership development, we're talking about equipping, mentoring, training people. There's kind of almost a ladder where you serve everybody. You serve your customers, you serve your people, you build culture, you do dinners, you do events. Service shouldn't be dependent on the person. Right. You run a company or you're building a team. Teaching is always a part of it. But when we start talking about equipping and really helping to create duplication, to help teach someone your skills, to really mentor, apprentice somebody, really, that requires a lot of time. It requires years and it requires a big dedication. So it's choosing the right people and making sure that you're putting the majority of your energy into a few people that have the capacity, they have the desire for the industry that they're in, and they really have the aptitude to learn it, the willingness to do the work that it's going to take because it's a both end. Leadership development, I put that kind of at the apex because you're not going to develop a lot of leaders. But when you talk about mentoring, I mean, they help me with my personal finance, they help me with my relationships, they help me with leadership development, communications, sales skills, dress, organization, time management. I was 18. I didn't know anything. One of the best things I had going for me was I was so young. I'm like, I know for sure I don't know anything. So I was very much willing to learn, especially from someone that had a great life. But I think a lot of people fall short, they fail to recognize the amount of time and effort it does take to equip somebody. And it's why you need to be really careful of the opportunity cost of choosing the right people. Now you can't be afraid, you can't never do it because if you don't do it, you're gonna end up in the business that's a prison where you're gonna get stuck where you're the sun and you have a few satellites around you, which for anyone that's listening, they know exactly what I'm talking about. The money's good, but the pressure you have to be careful, make sure you invest that time and go on that journey with the right person.

Gary Pageau 4:51

Now, you say about having an interest in the industry, right? You are more interested, to be honest, in making money, right? That was your thing, right? I had two interests making money and doing something that made the difference.

Why Direct Sales Worked

Anthony Spark 5:02

Yeah, but in the beginning, and I needed to make a lot of money.

Gary Pageau 5:05

What was it about the direct sales products that you were involved in that caught your interest? Because I I didn't know what you were selling, so I'm just curious is was there something there that kind of keep your interest that you could key in on? As I believe in this, I really want to sell it.

Anthony Spark 5:19

Because the answer is not what most people think. Right. The reason I chose direct sales was two reasons. It wasn't the products. I personally don't believe, and this is a hot take, I don't believe that the competitive advantage of direct sales is a product. The reality is a McDonald's has the most successful restaurant, makes the most amount of money, but they do not objectively have the best product. They have a marketable product that people want to buy. But no one's oh man, McDonald's got the best food. Unless it's a McRib. Yeah, McRib. I'm a big Wendy's fan. I think Wendy's is way better than a McDonald's if I'm gonna do a late night burger. But Shake Shack's my top though, but they're not open late. But if I were gonna say the two reasons I chose it, first, it was I found people that were extremely successful, that had the proof of concept, that were willing to teach me and shared the values I wanted to espouse. If I had met somebody in insurance or I had met somebody in the film industry or photography, I felt like that was the primary. Because if Tom Brady's your dad, doesn't mean you're not gonna have to work hard. But the path to the NFL is very different than if you don't have that level of coaching and mentorship. So that was the first reason. Second, it was never the products. The products were great, they were marketable. Most network marketing companies they have a good product. Now, people could say price, they could say this, they could say that, but that's normal business. People say that in your guys' industry, they say it in every industry. But it's usually not the product that's going to be anything that drives success. It was the education, it was the mentorship, it was the skills I was able to develop, it was the personal development. It was a low-stakes opportunity, but didn't require a lot of money because I couldn't open up a conventional business. But being it was low cost, it was low risk, and I had an A plus type person coaching me that I believed in, believed in me. That's why I chose it.

Accountability And Transactional Mistakes

Gary Pageau 6:58

We were working with this mentor and you're first starting out. What was the thing you did early on that really disappointed that person? Disappointed them.

Anthony Spark 7:15

I worked really hard because I knew I was at a disadvantage being 18 and being out. So I I moved a lot when I was young. And this caused me tremendous success and almost a mental breakdown. So I do want to make sure it's clear that this isn't a positive, it's two sides of a coin. But being I moved a lot, I found that when you move, no one knows who you are. You can choose who how people see you, you can choose your reputation. You could be introverted, you could be extroverted, you could be life of the party, you could be serious. But when you change a place that you go, you have an open ticket to be whomever you want to be. So being that I had that training, it put me in a position that when I came here, I just was really attuned to what is the person they want to mentor? What do they sound like, what do they look like, what do they believe in? How do they dress? What does it do? I cut my hair off. It was super conservative. I changed my dress. But when we talk about disappointment, so I worked really hard to almost create a caricature of myself that served me in some regards and did not serve me, especially later in my life. I was dumb enough to have my buddies talk me into smoking a bunch of pot one day. And but I wasn't dumb enough to go to the meeting high. And it was like, I don't know what the hell you guys put in this. So I missed a meeting. I was supposed to be there. So that was a big one. And I'm like, what did I miss? And I was really upset because I worked really hard for this. It was like 1 p.m. The meeting was eight. I thought you were serious, and I never missed anything. So that was a moment where I really missed it.

Gary Pageau 8:35

So we learned accountability on that.

Focus Versus Many Projects

Anthony Spark 8:37

Oh, yeah. I was an accountable guy in general. It was one of those dumb young things where I should have plenty of time. I'm not going to be unaccountable. But that's how a lot of these bad decisions happen. They spiral out of control, and you're like, the bad first bad decision leads to other unintended consequences. Exactly. There was a time where I wasn't considering the person mentoring me and their feelings, their way they want to go about things. And I stopped thinking of them as a person and they became somebody I called when I needed something, I needed advice, I needed something. And at one point in time, one of the people that was mentoring said, What do you want? He said, only call me if you need something. So it made me realize that no matter how successful somebody is or how far along they are, that we are all people. And if you forget that and you treat people transactional, even if it's unintentional, it creates a lot of emotional damage. So that was I learned that was probably, I don't even know, probably 18 years ago now.

Gary Pageau 9:32

And then you've gone on to start other companies or work with other companies and do various certain things. Have you always had this sort of attention span sort of deficit?

Anthony Spark 9:42

But yeah, I think that's fair. I was never diagnosed, but I feel I like the way I mentally am wired, I like to talk about it's like you're sitting at a table, right? And you're like, I can't eat another bite. But if dessert comes out, you can eat the new thing. And if something new comes out, you can eat the new thing. So I worked really hard and I only built my network marketing direct sales business, and that was the culture. And I needed to make sure I chased one rabbit. You can't catch multiple rabbits. But being that as I built that and I succeeded at that and I had a little bit of margin and I had some different creative endeavors I want to do, I find it best that if I can executive function a bunch of different things and I could be working on this, and then I can shift to this, and I can shift, it gives me more energy. Now having a few different companies, I have a primary, I have secondary things, I have my creative endeavors, I got projects and different things. I find if I'm real organized, which you know, I have a virtual assistant, we got AI, which we're talking about, all these different things, but I find that's where I thrive. I think the important thing, though, a lot of times people will listen to someone that's successful and they'll try to duplicate what worked for them, but it very often may not. You got to get to know who you are, what you believe in, right? How you're wired, how you succeed, because it's gonna be different. So you can be informed by people, but you got to find your own path. And to be honest, some people want to do the work for that, right? They don't I think that's one of the biggest foundations. I talk a lot about the success financially in business or any endeavor is a pyrrhic victory. It's an empty victory if you've disregarded the most valuable thing as the person you become in the pursuit of it, if you're making sure your focus is in the right place. It's the debate between the Michael Jordan and the LeBron James. And you can argue Michael Jordan's got more championships. I don't know him, and I'm not looking to throw shade, but from an outside perspective, from the stories, the background, the broken marriages, the relationship with the kids that aren't there, the gambling addiction, the clear anger, and this person he built to be that served him for 40 years doesn't allow him to enjoy the back 40. And then he got LeBron, also one of the top guys ever, but he's with the same woman since he was in high school. He's got the longevity and his teammates like him.

Gary Pageau 11:42

So I find that if How do you get past the flopping, though?

Anthony Spark 11:45

I can't get past the flopping. In all honesty, leadership. I don't even know what that means. I know nothing about basketball, Gary. I don't even know what flopping means.

Gary Pageau 11:54

Somebody just brushes him lately and he tries to pretend like he's got a foul. Oh, I got you. Maybe that's why he's been in for so long.

Anthony Spark 12:01

He ain't taking fouls. There you go. I don't know much about basketball. I don't know about leadership. My only interest in sports is the leadership team dynamics. I actually don't know really anything else about well, yeah.

Gary Pageau 12:10

But but you do you do you sponsor that long distance, the 5K, right? So are you a runner? I love running.

Mentoring Your Younger Self

Anthony Spark 12:15

I'm a big runner. Yeah, we started the punk rock run, it'll be our third year, raises money for a local organization, the Heritage Center and the Youth Council to help support with mental health services. So that's been a really cool thing. But running is a key part of my mental health. I find there these risk-taking people are these people that are just a little bit off. If you don't get brain chemicals a healthy way, you're gonna find them an unhealthy way. So I try to do it the healthy way.

Gary Pageau 12:37

So if you were mentoring 18-year-old Anthony, what would be the first thing you would have said to him?

Anthony Spark 12:45

As the challenge is that anyone that mentors someone else can only see from their own perspective. I feel that who whomever, when their interests are aligned, everyone does the best they can. It's kind of like parenting, where it's like you do the best you can and you love these people more than anything, but you still you mess up a lot. So they did, they were much more rigid and they were much more this is the way things were, which probably developed me into somebody I might not have been able to be. Right. But if I were able to go back for Anthony Spark, I would have affirmed who I am. I would have given a lot more leeway to try and do different things within the context of what it was. Because the reality is I can operate in a thin lane, but it's not where I thrive. So I would have been as judicious as humanly possible to minimize anything that would prevent me from doing and being who I wanted to do and be within the healthy constraints. Because you have preference and then you have needs for constraints. And a lot of leaders and a lot of people, they're they want to go narrow, they want conformity, they want it to be predictable, which I'm not here to say is wrong. It works a lot, much more like that in this space. Right. But for me, I need that, I need it to be a little different.

Coaching Teams In Process Work

Gary Pageau 13:55

And that's where I was kind of leading to that. Is a lot of my audience are man are people who are managing teams, right? They're managing different people, and things need to be done a certain way. If you want the prints to get on on time, you got to do the process, you want the mug, the photo mug to get out and make the shift, which is super important. Those kind of things are not a lot of leeway, but then again, you got to find people who can work in that environment, which can be not very creative, very road, and kind of work around that. Do you have any suggestions for coaching those kind of people like in terms of making that more palatable?

Anthony Spark 14:28

Yeah. So the things I would say is first off, you got to make sure you find the right person. There are some people that they love the minutiae of details and they love that kind of quality control. They love fixed systems and being told exactly what to do. But if you get a guy like me, they're never gonna thrive there. Unless you're gonna put me an executive or leadership role to oversee and strategically look at it. No matter, you got to make sure you match the role with what someone can do. Right. The other thing is being very cautious to measure outputs, not measure preferences. So if the photo mugs and the prints are getting done on time or ahead of schedule and they're at the proper quality, don't worry about how they're doing it as long as it's getting done. Right. A lot of times people they get nervous and they want to control things that might not need their control. And this is typically a bottleneck for small business, it's a bottleneck for one man, one-woman show where you only have a few employees, where people they take it as an art rather than making it a product, something outside of them. So feedback is personal. The way it comes out is personal, and there's a degree to that because you need to have a certain quality, particularly when you're a smaller outfit. Right. But you need to be careful that you don't put your preferences where they don't need to be. So some simple ones, like if no one's seeing these people, whatever they wear shouldn't matter. Just don't make those choices really consciously to not limit things as much as possible. But at the same token, when you're talking about people that are super detail-oriented, they might love the uniform, they might love having a real clear stand operat procedure and a rule book. So I think that the key, the principle, is knowing your personnel, knowing what the role is going to require, and making sure you're meeting and coaching people for something that's suited for them.

Gary Pageau 16:04

But that's gonna be kind of hard in a lot of today's hiring practices, right? And today's hiring environment is you may not have the opportunity to get to know somebody or whatever, or in the case of you may find somebody who's great for that role and then they ghost you on the first day of work, right? That's true. The hiring environment today is you may not get the chance to actually find that person.

Hiring Tradeoffs And Building Culture

Anthony Spark 16:47

Yeah. So Alex Ramosi talks a lot about it, and there's never no work. A lot of times people think there's this path that's this is at least work. It's just different work.

Gary Pageau 16:57

Right.

Anthony Spark 16:57

So you can find skilled people that are dependable and older, and you're gonna pay a premium. And in general, if you want an A plus player, you're gonna have to pay 25, 40% over industry standard, but they typically are gonna be worth two or three times as much as the B player that's paying, getting paid industry standard. So that's one way. You might have financial constraints, in which case, then you're gonna probably have to find people that are younger, less experienced, willing to work for less, and you're gonna have to train them and you're gonna have to equip them and you're gonna have to spend a lot of that time on the back end, and there is a chance that they're gonna leave. You can't guarantee it. It's the best you can do is to be so valuable for that person and give them such a valuable opportunity that they're compelled to stay because we never can control what somebody does. But if you're gonna just be in emergency all the time, which in a small business, sometimes you need to be. But if you live in urgency and you're constantly needing to fill spots and you don't have the culture and you're not having the equipping and you're not figuring out what your key demographic, the archetype of the employee you want really wants and needs, especially when it's cheap and easy concession like dress, you're always in reactive mode. Right. And you're never fixing the systemic problem. So you always are on fire, you're putting out fires constantly, but you have to systematize things, you have to sometimes slow down to speed up, just really hard when the bills are piling up and you need to fill a role. So it's that real world balance of the ideal and the actual business constraints of I need these mugs done today.

Gary Pageau 18:27

Said something that kind of got me thinking when I went down a direction there was a lot of times in our business, people know who the customer is and they have a vision in their mind of the customer, right? That it's a mom with kids and she picks pictures of her kids on a pillow or whatever. But they tend to define a job within the organization by its function, not correct who's gonna do it.

Anthony Spark 18:51

And if you don't do that, you can't build the environment. So a lot of times people were making fun of all these tech companies and they got these playrooms and this lunch. They attracted the kids that they wanted, they attracted the genius coders. That's the stuff they wanted. And a lot of times we look at what we can't do rather than look focusing on what we can control. And I personally believe there are a lot of things we can't control. We can't control what's happening in the entire industry, we can't control the politics, you can't control the economy generally, you can't control limitations or judgment or whatever it is. But I personally believe the things we can control, if we divert all of our energy and attention to those things, that they always can overpower what if you're not clear, then you don't know because they're like, Oh, I can't do that. You can change dress, maybe you can change having some pizza, you can change not micromanaging the way they do it and managing just the outputs and the results. So in every business going to be different, and every business person has different leadership strengths, right? They need to hire people to fill in their weaknesses, they have to find people, but you can't just look at the role, you have to look at who you would want in that role that would thrive in it.

Why He Shifted Into Coaching

Gary Pageau 19:58

Because, like in marketing, the idea is hey, you build a persona around a customer type. Same thing. Okay. What attracted you to go from multi-level direct sales to coaching? It could have been very easy, for example, if you experience a certain level of success to go do that in for other segments of the industry, right?

Anthony Spark 20:22

First off, I believe in a level of loyalty and appreciation for the people that took the time. And that's a rarer type of thing because I don't really run my life by rules or laws, I run it by ethics. These people, the the this family of people that have been pouring to me for 20 years, regardless of any limitations, regardless of any missteps. They took a 17-year-old kid and I wouldn't have these skills, I wouldn't have this background. I have hundreds of people in my organization that I serve that rely on me. So I'm not willing to change, and I'm also not willing to abandon a ship that I've put a lot of people on. So I love network marketing and I love direct sales. It's most of my income, and I expect it to be a big portion of it. But the thing in network marketing that I loved was always the coaching and the personnel development and the helping people succeed. And we've built a very unique mentorship system around that. But that was the part I loved. It was never the product of the direct sales, it was that element. So I have this skill that I've honed from 20 years of experience. So it gives me novelty, it gives me an extra income, it gives me an extra way to serve people because I'm taking that same skill set. And now, rather than me talking just about building an Amway business, it's almost like going from an agent to a broker where it's whatever they're doing, we're just helping apply those skills. So I helped a guy move from ministry to build a company from zero last year to the $200,000 of revenue. This year is on track to make any probably $500,000 of revenue with a really great margin. I've helped people pay off a bunch of debt. I've helped a couple I was working with, they were struggling with everything and they're in great shape and they got their goals. They wrote two books this year. I find a lot of rewarding, it's very fulfilling. And that's why I don't charge what like a lot of people charge, because thankfully I'm in a financial position that extra money is nice. And if someone's got 50 grand they don't want, I'll take it. But I don't need extra exactly.

Gary Pageau 22:09

There's always those people.

How The Coaching Program Works

Anthony Spark 22:10

Right. So I'm happy if you got too much money. I can help you with that problem. It's a it's a profitable act of service, and it's why that the pricing I charge, and I'm only gonna do a certain number of clients because I got four kids. I love my wife. I love my life. I have a very fixed amount of hours I'm willing to work. And between all my interests, I'm only going to do so much.

Gary Pageau 22:30

What is this coaching program like? What is involved in that? What are you expecting out of people who want to be coached? So first of all, they probably have want to be coached, right?

Anthony Spark 22:41

I'm not willing to take people's money if it's not serving them. So they have to be coachable. But what I'm really looking for, it could be a business person, it could be a young couple, it could be someone that's a professional, it's looking to build a secondary income, it could be somebody that's looking to install systems, whether it be VAs, AI, it could be financial coaching. I have a guy that went from about $50,000 your income to about $600,000 and he doesn't know how to manage it. He's like making a ton of money, but he doesn't know what to do with it. So it might be management. So there's a lot of different places that I could fill. But the way it works, I find the most effective way that saves people money is a bi-weekly, half an hour dedicated meeting. I've built an AI bot where I've loaded several years of my trainings into it, which becomes something that they can use to then fill in between. I share some different programs and some different trainings. I'm building a school community that'll launch quarter two. And then I have a special proprietary prompt for a special note taker that takes all the sessions, makes it actionable. We put in an AI tool online that then allows people to cross-reference what are the patterns, what are the things that I'm missing for me. So basically, we're building a playbook for how does Gary operate? What is Gary good at? What is Gary not? When Gary's failing, what's with the cause? When Gary's succeeding, what does it look like? What are the different action items? It's accountability, it's believing what people are doing. And a lot of people, they don't realize that just having someone in your corner, even if you're just paying them, their information is valuable. When you pay a little bit of money, you have just a bi-weekly appointment with yourself and you're paying for it. The accountant, because a lot of times we know what we need to do. We need someone that's give us a timeline. Right. And it's not that's not complicated, but it's so powerful and it's so effective, especially when you're lost in the minutia of your business every day, to take a little bit of a step out to work on your business and fix the problems rather than just keep solving the tasks and the problems day to day.

Where To Learn More And Closing

Gary Pageau 24:30

And they're just swimming and treading water, not taking that look above the pool, if you will, and see where they're actually going to. So, where can people go for more information about this program and the things you do? And you've got 17 things you're doing.

Anthony Spark 24:43

So where's the portal for Anthony? Follow me, it's SparkAchange Coaching on Instagram. But the best thing to do is I have a free newsletter that I do every day. You can go to sparkachangecoaching.com. You can get a free PDF of my book that I wrote a few years ago. You get a daily email. If you want to work with me at the bottom of every email, you could book a session, a free discovery call. We got to figure out if the values align. But I'd love to talk to anyone. Another way, most people won't, but I give my personal cell phone. Most people are not going to reach out, typically, whatever. But you want to text me, if I could serve you, you got a question on something, I'm happy to help. No one's too busy to help someone that's got the guts to ask, in my opinion. But if you sign up for the email, you'll get my email, you get my cell phone, you get the access. And if you want to talk about coaching, be an honor, privilege to serve. But most importantly, please reach out to Gary because Gary does a lot of work. And most people don't realize how thankless it is to do a podcast and to get the guests and to do it. And having five or six nice texts that I've been listening to the Dead Pixel Society, and it's really helped me. That can carry someone for three, four months. So please, if you're getting value out of this, please reach out to Gary and tell him he's doing a great job.

Gary Pageau 25:49

Thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate your advice and everything else. And I look forward to catching up with you again soon. Thank you so much.

Anthony Spark 25:55

Such a privilege. Bye, guys.

Erin Manning 25:59

Thank you for listening to the Dead Pixel Society podcast. Read more great stories and sign up for the newsletter at www.theadpixelssociety.com.