The Dead Pixels Society Podcast
News, information and interviews about the photo/imaging business. This is a weekly audio podcast hosted by Gary Pageau, editor of the Dead Pixels Society news site and community.
This podcast is for a business-to-business audience of entrepreneurs and companies in the photo/imaging retail, online, wholesale, mobile, and camera hardware/accessory industries.
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The Dead Pixels Society Podcast
From Swamp Mode To Systems That Sell, with Kenneth Kollasch
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Most businesses fail to grow for a simple reason: The owner is stuck selling the obvious thing, while the customer is buying something deeper. When Kenneth Kollasch tells us what it’s like to grow up inside a multi-generational ballroom and Latin dance studio, the lesson lands fast. Dance lessons were never just about steps. They were about confidence, relationships, identity, and feeling at home in a room full of people. That “hidden product” idea maps directly to the photo imaging world too, where prints and gear are really about memories and self expression.
From there, we get practical about small business systems and exit planning. Kollasch works with franchise owners and stressed “mom and pop” operators who feel trapped in a daily cycle of fires. Kollasch and Gary Pageau of The Dead Pixels Society talk through how to move from swamp mode to a predictable operating system: start with a deep diagnostic of real numbers, then document the know how that’s been living in your head for years. A clear playbook and solid SOPs don’t just help you hire and train, they make your business less owner dependent and more valuable when you want to sell.
Kollasch also reveals what buyers should look for during due diligence and business acquisition, including the team you’re actually buying, how automated and repeatable the operations are, what the financial output really means, and why the seller is exiting.
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Hosted and produced by Gary Pageau
Announcer: Erin Manning
Sponsors And Welcome
Erin ManningThe Dead Pixel Society Podcast is brought to you by Media Clip, Advertech Printing, and Independent Photo Imagers. Welcome to the Dead Pixel Society Podcast, the photoimaging industry's leading news source. Here's your host, Gary Peugeot.
Meet Kenneth Kolosh
Gary PageauHello again and welcome to the Dead Pixel Society Podcast. I'm your host, Gary Peugeot, and today we're joined by Kenneth Kolosh, who is a third-generation entrepreneur business coach, and he's coming to us from Valprazo, Indiana today. So, Kenneth, give us your 30-second pitch on how you got into the business world. I mean, obviously, being a third-generation entrepreneur, you grew up with it. So, what what was that like?
Kenneth KollaschYes, I did not learn about business. I was born into it. It was a dinner table type of education. And yeah, I got into it by getting into the family business like a lot of multi-generational entrepreneurs do. And being in the family business for over a decade, I then from there went into my own business consulting world where I helped mom and pop business owners go from that crazy mom and pop wearing a thousand hats every day, going nuts stage to a professional business system. So yeah, that's kind of how I got into it through the family, through the dinner table discussions, and how I got to be doing what I'm doing now.
Gary PageauSo, what was that multi-generational
The Ballroom Studio Business Model
Gary Pageaubusiness at the kitchen table you were first starting? And what was that?
Kenneth KollaschYeah. So as crazy it might sound, it was actually a ballroom and Latin dance studio. It's global franchise. So, but it's it's 114-year-old franchise now. It's my my parents owned a franchise location when we were growing up, and it was a very interesting background to grow up in.
Gary PageauI'm curious, what is that business model like? Because you have to be like obviously good at what you're doing, you have to be a good dancer, but you also have to be a good teacher and you have to convince enough people to do that and keep coming back. So, what is that business model like?
Kenneth KollaschYeah, it's actually a very niche model, as you could probably imagine. And like a lot of industries out there, there is the what I call the Ford sect, and then there's the Ferrari sect. And for our section of that market, we were a luxury brand. So we taught adults that were mostly obviously wedding couples, but for the most part, it was empty nesters, people looking to retire soon, people really getting back to the thing that they wanted to do 20, 30 years ago, but they now have the time and money to actually invest in, and the person that they want to do it with, their spouse or significant other. So, yeah, a lot of our the business model was actually wrapped around helping people come closer in their relationships with one another, or helping singles actually develop their own personality to be able to be comfortable at weddings and comfortable cocktail parties. And so it had a lot to do with actually the identity of the person, not as much the actual skill of dancing, although it was really cool to learn how to dance. And we call it the dance business because, exactly to your point, it's much more than just learning how to put your left foot in front of your right foot without killing the person across from you. It's about actually creating an environment and a culture where people grow as people while they're learning how to actually grow as dancers.
Gary PageauYou know, it's interesting you said because a lot of times I've discovered with businesses that is that I talk to, they're often selling something that is not the obvious thing, right? You're not really selling dancing, you're selling these other things that enable you to dance, right? Like, you know, like for example, in the photography industry, you know, you're not really selling uh devices or printing services, you're selling ways people can capture their memories and express themselves. And that's really what the market really is. So I find it kind of interesting that you know, you kind of knew that dancing was really about that. It really wasn't about the steps, it was really about the the the fulfillment that they're gonna get from that.
Kenneth KollaschYes, it's a lot like it's a lot like a great dip, right? There's crackers, but what I'm really interested in is the fondue. Right. Like so the dancing is it was a great vehicle to obviously people want to learn how to be comfortable on the floor with the father-daughter dance, or you know, they're going out to a swanky event. But the transformation, what they were actually looking for deeper than the dancing was really why they stayed around. Our average client retention was somewhere between five and seven years, right? So yeah, there were people that they they had long since learned how to dance at a at a basic, you know, social level, but why they stuck around was was for benefits that were far beyond just again knowing how to put their left foot in front of their right foot without you know stepping on their partner.
Gary PageauAnd from a timing standpoint, this wasn't that long ago. This was relative. I mean, people are still doing this, right?
Kenneth KollaschYes, I'm not 120 years old. Thank you. I I started in 2010. I my final year was in 2024. So, yes, even through the age of the internet, social media, Netflix, all the things that keep people from socializing in the real world, even in that stage, you're right. That our end, our our that business model was was thriving and had record years that they hadn't had in the 70s. So yeah, it's funny how even though culture shifts, like any good business, the business itself shifts and actually uh moves to accommodate the change in culture in a way that obviously still benefits the client, the customer, and even the staff and the owners themselves.
The COVID Pivot And Lifestyle Choice
Gary PageauYeah. So is that business continuing and you're just not involved? Where is that at?
Kenneth KollaschYeah. So my wife and I actually during COVID, we were planning, like I think a lot of multi-generational business owner families. You know, we were planning on taking over one of the family franchises. And we ended up deciding that because I, of course, have some background perspective on what it's like to grow up, we decided during COVID that I would like to actually be home a little bit more often. And when we had kids, we would like to have a different kind of lifestyle and in the dance world. It's it's an evenings and afternoons type of thing. So we we felt like moving to something that had more regular hours I could do virtually from home, right? The consulting role was the best of both worlds for me. I've also been a pastor along the way. So yeah, getting to do business with more than just the model that I was familiar with, which is that dance model has been great to work with other industries and other types of companies, but also still be in that world where you're helping business owners and helping high-end clients achieve some type of really cool transformation. That during COVID, we had, I think, like a lot of people, that epiphany where I think where my life's going isn't the perfect package. And maybe I just adjust it a little bit. So I'm doing a lot of what I did in the franchise world, just doing now in my own consulting agency.
Gary PageauSo who are your typical
Systems For Stressed Small Businesses
Gary Pageauclients in that space? When I mean, is it like who like when someone reaches out to you and says, Hey, listen, Kenneth, I need a, you know, I need some help. What kind of businesses are those?
Kenneth KollaschYeah. So for me, most people come to me and they're because of my background, they're either from the franchise world or they're in that small business phase where again they're in that mom and pop madhouse where they themselves, as the owner, are somewhere under a million dollars. There's they've got maybe two to three, four or five employees. And so they've got a small team and they have all their hands in the cookie jars, they're putting out all the fires, cleaning all the messes themselves. And it's just a really stressful place for them to be. So the problem that I tend to solve for most of these business owners is the systems and the frameworks and the predictability and the sustainability that I learned in that 114-year-old franchise, right, and helping them actually build a sustainable, scalable business without going crazy because they could grow. But then with the current model they have, for the most part, they are just going to scale the craziness and the stress. What they're looking to do is actually benefit the way they thought they would when they became a business owner, which is time, money, and freedom. But they just haven't figured out how to do that in that kind of crazy mom and pop stage.
Gary PageauAnd generally speaking, they don't have either one of those things, time, money, or freedom.
Kenneth KollaschYeah, man, you you could preach on that right there. That is most people when they come to me, is they are kind of at the end of the rope, they're looking to sell their company in the next five years. They worked X number of years and they feel like they haven't gotten the benefits that they imagined when they first started. So that's where I see most clients is either they're ready to sell or they're two or three years into their business realizing I don't want to do this for 30 more years. I got to figure this out now before I, you know, work.
Gary PageauWhich is probably the ideal time to do it, actually. You know, when I talk to a lot of people about you know getting into business, and there's a side story to that, which I won't get into, but I always tell people you should know when you get into a business how you're gonna get out of it.
Kenneth KollaschLike, like that's a good oh my gosh. I'm I need to write that down. Yeah, I'll be I'll be your audience right now, too. I'll be the audience, not the guest. That was great. See that.
Gary PageauBut anyway, but I mean, because that makes it because that's gonna that's gonna inform all of your decisions going forward, right? Whether you take on capital, whether you take on debt, who you know, whether you're gonna take on equity partners or all those things. So diverting from that a little bit, you mentioned something earlier about franchises, like people who have franchises. How is that different from somebody else? Like, like, for example, you're let's say let's say I'm a franchise owner of a sub shop, or let's say it's uh Jersey Mike's or something, and don't they have ways of helping those owners? Why would they talk to somebody like you?
Kenneth KollaschYeah, it's a great point. So there's a variety of different things that what I would call the parent company that the parent franchise company does for the franchisees, sure, but in terms of actual training and facilitating the operations of the franchise, every parent franchise has different operating systems that they and training that they give to their franchisees. So not every franchise is created equal. And anybody that has gone through the process of researching and actually finding out which franchise will work best for them, that is a whole process that I actually don't consult 100% on, but I have friends that consult in that world because those parent companies are all different in terms of how they oh yeah, uh train onboard and offer the franchise to these franchisees. Absolutely.
Gary PageauYeah, and it's just plus it's you know, whether you can even transfer the rights, which you can do, and oh, those kind of crazy things are involved. Because some people think franchisee is the easy way, but maybe it's almost golden handcuffs, you can't get out of it sometimes.
Kenneth KollaschMany of the agreements are operation, like in-house operation franchisees where you have to be there every day. It's not the passive type of role that most entrepreneurs are pursuing, especially when they're looking into the franchise model. Right. So, yeah, I would even say one of the main benefits that I've seen where I tend to come into the franchise world is people that are looking for a second opinion because they have absorbed all of the franchise training and the onboarding and the courses and all the internal things. But like anything, one of my favorite books is called Rookie Smarts by Liz Waceman, and it's the value of having somebody in your circle of decision making that doesn't actually know what you do. So, yeah, I come in in those scenarios and sometimes for them it's it's extremely valuable. And of course, other times the internal
Franchises And Getting A Second Opinion
Kenneth Kollaschtraining and onboarding is sufficient for them.
Gary PageauSo, one of the things that often happens in my space, right? The photo imaging space. Let's say we're talking about a retailer or a small photo lab or someone like that. You know, they've been doing it a long time, and a lot of the knowledge and processes and expertise is is in their head or in their head, in their wife's head, or in their head, or their yeah. What are some of the things people can do? Let's say you're well, let's say you're doing that thing. Hey, I'm gonna sell in three years, right? I need to start laying down the steps, and you've got all this knowledge trapped in your noggin.
Turning Know How Into A Playbook
Kenneth KollaschWell, I think one of the initial steps I've actually got on my website, there's this free market that I have where it's 13 free resources to either generate a playbook for your business, basically to do what you just said. How do I evaluate what I already know works well, but put it into something that if I sold it, it could be valuable to somebody who's never run this before, right? And I think one of the first places I have people start in that market is doing some type of, and I don't mean surface level, I mean deep diagnostic of there's not, there's a there's one, it's one thing to say, I know, I feel how this business works. Oh, I feel like it's going great. I feel like leads are going well, I feel like my sales conversion rates are great. But to actually have the hard numbers of, oh, well, this is what our conversion rates tend to be from Q1 to Q2 and Q2 to Q3. The knowing, knowing step one is knowing actually what's really happening, not just what feels like is happening. Sure. And then step two is, and I think this is where you have to bring in somebody on the outside, is helping you from the outside in break down every single step that is intuitive to you now as the business owner or instinctual now, because you've been doing it for 10, 15, 20 years, or even to your managers for if they've been doing anything more than two years, it's probably somewhat second habit at this point. But having somebody from the outside or a way for you to actually break down those steps into an operating, operating manual for every single section of your business. That is, I know that sounds awful. It sounds too meticulous. It sounds like, why would that make the sale of my business any better than it is now? And the value of that cannot be underestimated. Right. Not just for obviously bringing on new new employees and not just for optimizing parts in your in your operating system that you didn't even realize were going poorly, but you felt like they were going great. But just having that upon sale, it makes the value of your business tremendously more valuable than you would think. And not to mention it's it's really great negotiating power when you're in that point of sale type of position. So those are the two steps that I would take first.
Gary PageauYeah, I've I've actually talked to a few people about that process. Say, well, I don't have time to write this stuff down. I said, but do you have time to talk into your phone and talk to you about how you do it?
Kenneth KollaschEven if it's somebody within where you're you have a really great virtual assistant or you have an executive assistant that's in person, the ability for somebody to capture the great things that are already happening and and co-collect all of the data of the reports from every sector of your business. It's it's like when people go to sell a home. You you repair things that you had let go for 10 or 15 years, you finally fix the deck, you finally change the flooring, you finally repaint the walls.
Gary PageauAnd then you decide to stay because now it's the house you want.
Kenneth KollaschYeah, we fixed it all up, but then we kept it. Yeah, but it's the same way with the business is think of this as like you're repainting the house. You're you're actually fixing that deck that's been kind of falling apart for five or 10 years. Now, when you're coming up to a sale, you do things that if you were to own the business yourself, you wouldn't necessarily fix or change. But now, because you're looking to extract the most value and equity out of this business, doing those two steps that I just said are are think of it as the same. It's immensely valuable when it comes to the sale.
Fixing Swamp Mode For Good
Gary PageauSo when people are in their business, they get kind of in their what I call swamp mode, right? Where they're just, you know, they come in and they have 16 fires to put out, right? The printer didn't show up that day, the laser on, the laser printer's down. How can people conceivably have time to do the things you're talking about when they're in swamp mode?
Kenneth KollaschWell, I think step one is to fix swamp mode. Okay. It's unrealistic for somebody to operate in a place of wisdom, great decision making, understanding, peace of mind, all the things that are required to step one, yeah, you have to put out your fires, but to understand how to actually keep your business from constantly staying in swap swamp mode, that's exactly what why people like me exist. First of all, it's why I have a job. But two, it's it's what the benefit of doing those processes actually give you. It gives you foresight into your business and it gives you time to actually prevent, to be in preventative maintenance mode, not oh, I'm constantly reacting to these problems. So, yes, do you need to clean up your swamp? Do you need to go from Shrek to, you know, you know, back to the castle? Yeah, of course. But just because there you've been in swamp mode doesn't necessarily mean you have to stay there forever. And something like this, the process I was talking about, it helps prevent future swamp. And of course, it it gives
Valuation Beyond Just More Sales
Kenneth Kollaschyou all the things that you really want.
Gary PageauSome people want like when they start prepping a business for sale, right? They start optimizing for profits, right? Because they figure, you know, I want to sell times profits. But but do you have any uh advice or ideas about top line growth?
Kenneth KollaschI was just talking to somebody that I've just started working with, and their goal is to double the valuation of their business in the next 24 months. And one of the things that they said, which is exactly what you just said, is okay, well, let's put all of our efforts into focusing on. Now they mentioned specifically gross revenue. Let's put all of our efforts into just pumping this thing full of cash. Like, let's get all the all the all the sales that we possibly can. Let's bring out a few extra guys, let's just ramp it up as we possibl as much as we possibly can. And one of the things that I think you said in the beginning of towards the beginning of this show that I think would be great for to answer the question that you asked is to actually help them understand what are you actually wanting out of this business and what is it providing for you. Is it, I know one of my favorite things to encourage people to do instead of just throttle the business into this, I won't call it fake, but very unsustainable rhythm, right? Is to actually consider the possibility of either a silent donor option where you keep 10% or you keep 5% or you keep your foot in the door, or or understand that there are aspects of the sale that are negotiable that yes, it has to do with the revenue, but it doesn't necessarily always go with the, well, the last two years of our business, we've done a million dollars. So the valuation is three million. It's not always X's and O's upon sale. At the end of the day, you're still selling to a buyer who is interested. And that buyer is a human, they have concerns that are beyond just gross revenue. If they're buying the business, they themselves are anticipating on probably changing some things, growing it. They're anticipating coming into a sustainable, stable business. And so there's value outside of just the top line revenue upon sale that is a part of the negotiation, not just well, how much money did you do the did you do the last two years? So yeah, I'm encouraged that.
Gary PageauI mean, most people when they buy a business, they have in some ways an idea that I can do this better, right? I mean, that's sort of in their mind is that I'm gonna take on, I'm gonna buy this photo lab, and they've been you know netting out you know, X amount of dollars a year. I think we can do better.
Kenneth Kollasch100%. You are so right.
Gary PageauAnd so you kind of have to, I mean, so when you're coaching someone on the buying side, what are your thoughts there? What are some reasonable expectations? Because you know, the reality is, is you know, that may not be possible or you know, realistic.
Kenneth KollaschYeah, so I I I tell them to go through these three W's in a very specific way, or they're not all W's, but these three questions in a very specific way. And the
Buyer Due Diligence The Key Questions
Kenneth Kollaschfirst one is who? Who is actually in the business once once you buy it? Is it the managers? Are there project managers? Is it all entry-level employees? Who are you getting with the package? And part of what I encourage buyers to do is actually, in a way, do a soft type of interview with each of the people that would be staying around, trying to get to know who is in the business. Those are as much the assets to the business as the products or the inventory or the actual goods and services that you sell. And the second question to that is how does the business function? Are there predictable operating systems? Is there already marketing campaigns in order? Do they have nurture emails set up and sales emails? Do they have the basically how much of the business is automated? In other words, how much am I going to be able to just step in and immediately optimize or continue to just let run? Right. And then the third question is finally, okay, now what is the output of the business? I do need to know, yes, what is the top line revenue? What is the net revenue? What is the actual profit for the owner? And why is it that way? Is it is it because they've been reinvesting? Is that why the profit margins look a little strange? So I think the last question I actually encourage them to ask and investigate is what is the business output? Yeah. Mostly because my ability to come in is naturally, I'm assuming, like you just said, I'm going to be able to extract more output from this business. But if who the people are in the business isn't really lining up with the kind of business that I want to have, then that's going to be a sore point. Same thing with if the business is run, if how the business is run is based on the business owner's wisdom, intellect. They're a unique brand, brand of, you know, that they're the face of the business. And so therefore, how the business works is really because Joe shows up or Sherry shows up every day. Right. People see them and talk to them. And then finally, of course, you need to know what the business output is. But I think that's one of the last questions I ask buyers to consider because inevitably we're going to get come in the business and immediately increase the what anyway. What it outputs is ideally going to grow when we come into the business, but it can't unless those first two rungs are actually in the right place, I feel like.
Gary PageauAnd let's not omit another W, which is why you're selling.
Kenneth KollaschYep. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Gary PageauBecause that can because that can affect the timetable, that can affect a lot of things. I mean, I've seen business sales started because there's a split between the spouses. Or, you know, there's you know, the why is almost as important too.
Kenneth KollaschSuch a good point. Yeah. No, I need to add that on my W. There we go. Now I've got four W's. Well, it's a sharing environment here on the Dead Pixel Society podcast. There we go. There we go. No, you're so right. It's I and you know what's funny is that for a lot of so I've I've probably helped eight different businesses be sold and bought at this point, and two of them were franchises. And you're exactly right that half of those scenarios came out of a negative negative selling environment. In other words, the divorces, the bad partnership, you know, fallouts, things like that. And and and and and then the rest of them obviously were people in retirement age and just kind of the natural, hey, we're just naturally looking to pass this on in some type of way. Nothing went wrong. The business is going great. Our our top guy or girl isn't leaving, you know, it's just it's just time. Yeah. So yeah, it's a great, it's a great ad.
Gary PageauThat last because the reality is is also, you know, that can inform the seller, right? How anxious is this person to buy?
Kenneth KollaschYeah. Leverage is a real thing when it comes to buying and selling businesses. That's a hundred percent true. Right.
Gary PageauSo, what are some of the things that you're seeing trending in businesses now? Because you know, there's a weird sort of financing world we're into, right? It's just,
Financing Trends SBA Cash And Online Lenders
Gary Pageauyou know, getting capital to buy a business is a challenge these days. Are people trying to you know fund purchases through earnings? Are they coming up with cash? Are they doing how are people in the businesses you're seeing doing the finance piece?
Kenneth KollaschWell, for a lot of them, uh so it was very, very popular during COVID, all the SBA loans. Yeah, there, those were very, very popular, especially for business owners that were newer and still wanted to pay their staff through the pandemic and all that. But I would say since so since I've been in some type of consulting role since 2017, since I've been in that type of role, I have seen the home appreneur, where it's somebody out of their home creating some type of business, whether that's a product-based business or a service business, or even like a SaaS business, or even a drop shipping sort of situation. Drop shipping, absolutely. A lot of these businesses are starting just out of pure, hey, I I threw it on my credit card this month. Basically, they're cash-based startups. And I think those have I've seen a few of them that I personally work with that we had them profitable month one. And I'm like, and when I say profitable, I mean it not only paid the expenses of the business, but it actually helped them pay all their bills that month, the personal bills, and have a reasonable amount, right? Yeah, money left over after. So they they were back to a normal standard of living after they had left their jobs, started this home-based business. So I think the cash model is more popular than it ever has been in terms of just personal investment side. But I do find a lot of business owners, banks, and there's just a lot more virtual only financial institutions out there. Yeah, Finn's finsync is one that I that I'm familiar with, that a lot of people I know use. But a lot of those types of platforms where it's actually a very low relationship with the lender, the capital with the lender, that is probably the most popular option, which is very typical of our culture right now. Okay, how can I get what I want out of you without having to really actually get to know you? Exactly, which is this the weirdest thing because you're literally borrowing, you know, 10, 50,000, 100,000. Like you're literally borrowing a ton of money. But yeah, so that that's what that's probably the trend I've seen that's different than in the past. Yes, people are still doing the SBAs and all those other kind of traditional loans, but I think those more virtual financial institutions, low, low relational things are becoming more and more of a trend nowadays. That and the cash-based startups are those are the two, I think, anomalies that are they've always been there, but they're more frequent now.
Gary PageauSo, but it strikes me you're more of a relational guy.
Kenneth KollaschYeah, thankfully they're still they still have to get to know me. I force them to get to know me. There you go. But no, you're you're so right. I I, you know, I'm a former pastor. I've I definitely I come from a Hispanic family, so you we can't help but wear a heart on our sleeves. So for me, it's would I prefer to do everything relationally? Yes, it's just I'm a people person, I'm an extrovert. But I even with clients that I've had, I mean, some some just prefer text and email, they would never want to jump on a video call. And for others, they would talk if I gave them five hours, they would stay five hours on the video call. I think relational is the way to go, but convenience has its way too.
Gary PageauSo if people wanted to start a relationship with Kenneth, where would they go for more information?
Kenneth KollaschYeah,
Where To Find Kenneth And Closing
Kenneth Kollaschso everything I made it really easy for anybody, whether it's those free resources that I talked about earlier, or whether it's to book a call with me to learn more about all my consulting services, it is all in one spot on my website. It's Kennethcoaches.com. And on KennethCoaches.com, there's my social media links there. There's my YouTube channel link. There's I have a blog post, all the goodies. But the main thing is on KennethCoaches.com, you get access to pretty much getting a hold of me in whatever way you per you personally feel like.
Gary PageauAnd well, thank you much, Kent. This was great learning from you. I never really knew much about the ballroom dancing world. So now I've when with my daughter getting married soon, maybe I should be looking into it. But thank you so much.
Kenneth KollaschMy pleasure, my pleasure.
Erin ManningThank you for listening to the Dead Pixel Society podcast. Read more great stories and sign up for the newsletter at www.theadpixels society.com.
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