Rep. Jennifer McClellan on Iran, Voting Rights, and AI Risks

What is actually happening inside Congress right now—and how does it affect everyday people?

In this episode, Congresswoman Jennifer McClellan breaks down a wide range of issues shaping the current political moment, from rising healthcare costs and federal budget cuts to military action in Iran and ongoing debates over voting rights. She explains how expiring ACA tax credits are impacting families, why proposed budget changes could affect hospitals, education programs, and energy costs, and what constituents in Virginia’s 4th District are already experiencing.

The conversation also explores the War Powers Resolution and the limits of presidential authority in military conflicts, offering context for recent U.S. actions abroad. On voting rights, McClellan walks through the details of the SAVE Act and why it has become a point of contention.

The episode closes with a discussion on artificial intelligence—its risks, energy demands, and the challenge policymakers face in regulating it—and a reflection on America’s 250th anniversary and what it means for the future of the country.

GUEST BIO
Jennifer McClellan is the U.S. Representative for Virginia’s 4th Congressional District. She previously served nearly two decades in the Virginia General Assembly and, in 2023, became the first Black woman elected to Congress from Virginia. Her work focuses on healthcare, energy, technology, and voting rights.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:16

And it's not, you know, we spend a lot of time investing in the quality of life for our service members and their families. And that's not where a lot of this money is going. It is going to fund this war in Iran that we don't even know what the end game is, what the purpose of it is. So I think we are gonna see a lot of people who are already hurting, you know, programs that help lower your energy costs by, you know, weatherizing your home or helping you people are energy efficient being completely eliminated. Programs that help low-income people who struggle to pay their electric bills to pay them being eliminated. So I think we're really going to see our safety nets that are already frayed break.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Hey, welcome back, faithful politics listeners and watchers. I am your political host, Will Wright, and I'm joined by your faithful host, Pastor Josh Bertram. What's going on, Josh? What's going on, Will? Hey, and today we are joined again by Jennifer McClellan, the Congresswoman. She represents Virginia 4th District and previously served nearly two decades in the state legislature. In 2023, she became the first black woman elected to Congress from Virginia. And this is her third time to the show. So welcome back to Fit of Politics.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

Thank you. It's great to be back.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Yeah, yes. I will I will, you know, just give you a quick prop on the top because, you know, I just appreciate you wanting to come on our show. I mean, who are we? We're just a bunch of podcasters, right, from Virginia. But this is your third time here. So that that says something. And before that, your predecessor, Donna McKeachin, came on. So I'm I'm hoping to extend, you know, this this you know relationship to even Josh's congressperson, whoever that is.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Rob Whitman.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Rob Whitman.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

I reached out, they haven't gotten back to me yet.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah, yeah. So so I I I'll I'll I'll just jump right into it. I'm gonna ask you, you know, just just on the top. I mean, well, you you were in DC. Have you been to DC this whole week?

SPEAKER_04 2:18

Uh yes. I came up Monday.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Got it. I got it. So so you you weren't here in Virginia when we all had to turn on our heaters like earlier on the week.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

Well, we I over the I was over the weekend, yeah. I had to turn on my heat.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yeah, it's wild. Yeah, it's wild. What's up with that? I don't know. Climate change. Okay, well, that wasn't my question. My question is the lat the the we were initially supposed to talk to you back in January. And through a course of just you being busy, because you're a Congress person, a lot has happened. But I I wanted to just like just quickly review the questions I was going to ask you back in January, and maybe we can still talk on some of these, but but you know, January, we were going to ask you about premium tax credits, the ACA, Greenland, NATO, an alliance stability, Venezuela capturing another president, tariffs, and a whole bunch of other stuff. And now today we are facing a whole new slew of issues. So I'd love just for you to start off by like, what is the state of our union, our Commonwealth, even?

SPEAKER_03 3:21

The state of our union is chaos.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

And a lot of us on the Hill trying to stay focused on community in the midst of the chaos. That's definitely where I am. But I think some of the issues you touched on are still very relevant and affecting people, and I still hear about in the district. So the enhanced premium tax credits did expire in December. They have not yet been reinstated, although we did pass through a discharge petition on a bipartisan basis, an extension in the House. And we have seen, I saw a recent report that 83,000 Virginians now have dropped their insurance under the Virginia marketplace because they can't afford their premium anymore. I've I have some constituents who tell me what those premiums have jumped to. So that I've got one, Lester Johnson. If you ever go to Mama J's, that's he and his mom own that restaurant. This family of three went from paying$600 a month to over$1,000 a month. And there are all kinds of stories throughout the district, throughout Virginia and the country on that. The tariffs have been invalidated by the courts after a lot of millions of Americans paid more for just about everything from groceries to gas to housing to toys to technology. And the administration is giving refunds to the businesses, but not the people who the businesses then pass those costs on to. So there's legislation pending in the House that would say give a refund to the consumers that ultimately pay for those tariffs. We'll see where that goes. Venezuela seems to have settled down. I don't know. It's just not in the news anymore. But now we're at a war with Iran with another an attack on Iran, absent any evidence, even according to our intelligence community, there was no evidence of an imminent threat on the United States or our interests. So now we are trying to figure out what's what's what's the strategy, what's the game plan, what's the end goal. Is the Strait of Hormuz open? Is it closed? Is it blockaded? You know, it depends what day of the week. We've seen the president threaten war crimes on Easter Sunday. We've seen him threaten to kill the whole civilization. Very concerned about where that's headed. Cost of everything is still too high. And yeah, yeah. So these are these are the things that I hear the most about from constituents who either call into the office, you know, immigration. I still hear about concerns around ICE and what they're what they're doing in our communities and the impact it's having on our communities. I've done a bunch of roundtables in in the Richmond area. So these are the things that I hear either through calls into my office and emails, or when I'm in the district talking to constituents, these are the issues that I hear about.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, that's quite the laundry list. And you sit there and you hear it, and you're like, man, we have a lot that we have to figure out. And I want to concentrate, though, for just a few minutes on the budget, the 2027 budget. Right. So there's a proposed increase, significant increase in defense spending, by cutting non-defense discretionary spending by about 10%. At least that's what the data I have at this point. So that sounds abstract to someone like me, like, oh great, you know, the government's cutting 10%. Oh, great, the government's taking on a trillion dollars in debt. Awesome. Obviously, I know that that's that's not good, but it's like we hear this kind of stuff all the time, and then it just kind of rolls off of us, which isn't a good thing. I would love for you to kind of bring this to reality. What are the people in Virginia's fourth district and maybe even beyond, what are they gonna feel in that trade-off when the defense spending goes up, the non-defense spending goes down? What are they gonna feel? Where are we gonna feel the impacts?

SPEAKER_04 8:05

Everywhere, frankly, everywhere. Because you can't look at that budget in a vacuum. So remember HR one, which the president called the big, beautiful bill, I called the big ugly bill. So a lot of the cuts from HR one will take effect January 1st. So we haven't, we've begun to feel them, but not a lot. So I'll give you an example. The Medicaid cuts haven't taken effect yet, but we have seen rural health centers either close or close the whole departments in anticipation of those cuts because you know we saw in Lynchburg they they closed their labor and delivery department. Augusta Health closed three health centers in in sort of the the western part of the state. In in our area, we you know, we have 10 hospitals in Virginia at risk of closing, one of them down in my district in Portia. So they're really struggling to figure out how to backfill those cuts. And then our healthcare safety net is really broken now. I met with Health Brigade, which is the oldest free clinic in the Metro Richmond area. And they not only are they struggling to continue to pay to provide services to their patients, but there are patients who they don't even see coming in the doors anymore, who they're worried about, or the the stories that they hear because they just can't quite meet their needs. So that all is gonna get worse because for for health and human services, it's it's about a 13% cut. And it's cutting things like parts of the agency that deal with maternal mortality. We have a maternal mortality crisis in this country, and there are there are programs that were designed to track, monitor, and track those deaths, the disparities between black and white women, because black women are three times more likely to die in childbirth, and then put put policies in place to fix it. They're getting eliminated. In higher ed, we're seeing, you know, my mom, who was the first member of her family, she was the third youngest of 14 children. She was the first member of her family to go to high school, let alone graduate. She ended up running the trio programs at Virginia State University, which are three federally funded programs that help first generation or at-risk high school students go to college and then succeed in college. So that she spent almost 30 years helping kids like her go and go to college and succeed. That program is proposed being eliminated. Environmental protections that that help ensure that that that pollution doesn't further hurt our public health, the departments dealing with that and employees dealing with that are being cut. So there's just a few of the things. And what the president is asking for is above and beyond even what the most what we call defense hawks think we need. And it's not, you know, we spend a lot of time investing in the quality of life for our service members and their families, and that's not where a lot of this money is going. It is going to fund this war in Iran that we don't even know what the end game is, what the purpose of it is. So I think we are gonna see a lot of people who are already hurting, you know, programs that help lower your energy costs by, you know, weatherizing your home or helping you be more energy efficient being completely eliminated. Programs that help low-income people who struggle to pay their electric bills to pay them being eliminated. So I think we're really going to see our safety nets that are already frayed break. And all of the programs to help address affordable housing, child care. He said, President said we can't afford health care and child care. And he said we can't afford Medicaid, Medicare, and child care because we got to fight this war. That's not the right priority when Iran was not an imminent threat to this country or our national interest until we've hacked them.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

You know, um, Congresswoman, I don't know what kind of conversations you are having, not not only with your constituents, but you know, friends, family, or whatever. But I know that when I'm having conversations with people I know, even with like some guests, like before we hit record, like we we recorded this episode with one guest, I won't mention the name, but you know, before we were recording, we were we were just sort of reflecting a little bit on where we are as a country. You know, that you look you look at the news and you're just like, What? The Navy secretary just got fired, and now there's like all this action, you know, in in the Street of Four moves, and you're just like, What what is happening? I mean, like, like what do you tell people like when they are just turning on the news, pulling out their hair, and am like, I don't know what to do because it seems like the world has fallen apart.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

First, take a breath. You know, I think wait, were you telling that to me? You were probably just Well, everybody. Now I think I think first just take a breath to settle yourself and then focus on what to do. I tell myself that all the time. Sort of my my three rules or the advice I give, which is sometimes I'm really good at giving but not following, is I put my own mask on first so that I am taking care of myself so I can respond. Whether that's like just take a minute to meditate, you know, go for a walk, like put the phone down and smell the roses, you know, whatever I need in that moment to kind of pause and calm down because part of what's happening is everyone is so full of anxiety, and especially those who doom scroll, that your reaction comes from a place of anxiety and anger and fear, and not from a place of, okay, let me do something constructive. So that's the first thing is just pause. And also, if you give yourself, you know, a stroke, you're not gonna be able to do anything. Second, focus on what you can control and trust God or the universe or whatever you believe in to handle the rest. You will find there is enough within your life that you can control to at least fill your day and calm your anxiety. So if it's you can control, you calling your member of Congress, writing your member of Congress, telling them how what's happening in Washington is impacting you or what you want Washington to focus on. If protest is your jam, there have been lots of protests that have let people know, you know, I don't like the direction that this is going. If it's I'm gonna go and and and try to support or volunteer an organization that's being harmed by these policies, then go do that. But there are things within your life that you can control. Vote. I mean, that's the number one, everybody's got to vote, and I'll come back to that. That is your power in affecting the outcome of our government. And I do not let me forget to come to that. And then the third is get some joy in there. You know, find something in your life that you are grateful for and that you are joyful for and hold on to it. And when you when you get to the point where you're angry or you're anxious, and you know, don't know what to do, and you're trying to pause, think think of that.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

That sounds like not a lot, but it is.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

And I think for me, people coming and telling me their stories, whether it's here's how the tax credits, how the how the tax cuts, uh, the Medicaid cuts are impacting me, here's how the loss of the tax credits are impacting me, here's what's happening in my community when ICE shows up at this apartment complex or at the courthouse.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

Um, you know, here's how much I'm paying for groceries.

SPEAKER_04 17:01

Fun fact the price of ground beef, a pound of ground beef costs more than working an hour under the federal minimum wage. So telling those stories to members of Congress or your state legislator or your local government leader helps us be your voice and helps us do our job better. And then, of course, voting in every single election. Because I always say, you know, in a government by of and for the people, government will only reflect a perspective and then meet the needs of the people who participate. And we have seen the more people that participate, the more pushback that Congress or this president gets. We've seen them back off, back down sometimes. He backs down quietly, but he does like he's a lot louder when he's pushing forward. But when he backs down, you know, he he does it quietly. So I I do see the people making a difference. They just cannot give up, can't give up.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah, I I really appreciate that because one, I think it's just good for me to personally hear, and it's probably good for your constituents to hear too, that, you know, like we're not trying to ignore what's happening, but we are trying to self-regulate and so we can actually address it if we get burned out and we don't put our mask on, right? But but you you you you brought up something, and and I and I want to kind of uh switch it to to DHS. So DHS is still shut down, at least at the time that we're recording this. And to me personally, it's had very little effect. I have had to travel a few times and didn't really have any. I mean, we've got a great airport here in Richmond, you know, so it wasn't a a a big hassle, but that's not the experience for a lot of people that have been affected.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

So I'd love for you just to talk to us like why is DHS still shut down so uh DHS is shut down because Speaker Mike Johnson and the Freedom Caucus of the House Republican caucus would rather keep it shut down than hold ICE and Border Patrol agents to the same standards and accountability that every other law enforcement agency in the country is held to. That's the bottom line because the Senate passed unanimously a bill to fund DHS with the exception of ICE and Border Patrol. And what is gets lost in the conversation HR1 funded ICE and Border Patrol for three years. They got up to$200 billion, which is enough to fund them for three years. So this is not a fight about do we fund ICE and Border Patrol? They're already funded. This is a fight about do we hold them accountable when they murder American citizens? Do we hold them accountable and not just, I mean, when they murder people, period. Do we hold them accountable when they hold people in detention centers under conditions that are so bad that over 40 people have died in their custody? Do we hold them accountable when they say that they are only going after criminals, but they show up at courthouses or on the way to schools or when people are on their way to worship and detain people and deport people with no due process? Are we gonna require them to show their badge and not wear masks because anybody can put on a mask and claim that they're ICE or Border Patrol and say, you know, open the door. They don't want to do any of that. And as a result, they're saying to TSA and FEMA and our Coast Guard, well, you might not get paid because we just don't want to do that. Or some members of the House Freedom Caucus say we don't want to fund DHS unless we pass a bill that would require everybody to prove their citizenship before they can vote through documents that cost money. If you your name is different today than on your birth certificate because you got married or any other reason, you've got to go show the chain of custody of your name to be able to register to vote. And we want to end mail-in balloting, even though the president of the United States votes that way. So that that's why uh DHS remains.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

I mean, they're technically they're working, they're just not getting paid. And that's why.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Man. That's really, really, really good. And I it's good to hear from someone in Congress uh what's going on, the perspective there. I mean, I obviously I know you're from the Democrat perspective, but it's good to hear what's really going on, I think, uh from from your perspective. I really appreciate that. I, you know, you mentioned the SAVE Act, right? You mentioned the SAVE Act, and you mentioned the difficulty that it could propose to people. And I just I would love for you to kind of help people understand what the SAVE Act is. Why aren't you because like what I hear, right? The what you might call just the I don't know, hot takes on it is well, hey, what's wrong with requiring people to give their photo ID? We that just is making you know elections safe. Right. Again, that's what I'm hearing. I'm not saying that that's what the Safe Act is about. But why what's wrong with just, you know, we just want to make elections safer. We want to make sure only citizens are voting and not anyone who's not a citizen should be voting. And we want to make sure that the right people are able to vote. Citizens. Okay. So that's what I'm hearing from one side. And then from another side I'm hearing it's racist. It's got, you know, different agendas behind it that are not gonna restrict all the voting and make it very difficult and even potentially make it so that women have a much harder time voting or even taking away a female vote. Can you tell tell us what's going on with the Save Act? If that's true, the stuff I said, why is it true? How do we know that that's true?

SPEAKER_04 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

So this the the Save America Act is not about limiting voting to citizens because that's already the law. Right?

SPEAKER_04 23:50

It is illegal, you can go to jail and there's there's there's very very very very very very little evidence that anybody who is not a citizen has voted after many years of study. Because this this whole bill is not new. It's been at least 10 years that they've been trying to do something similar. So so that's the first point. What the bill does it doesn't just say bring a photo ID we we did that in Virginia but we said that if you don't have one, the state will make one for you and it'll be free. It doesn't it's not just your driver's license what the what the Save America Act does is it requires very specific government issued photo IDs. All of them cost money and I took my oath of office on the Bible that my father kept his poll tax receipt in because my father and my grandfather had to pay poll taxes to register to vote. And what the Save America Act basically says is whether it's what you have to pay for I mean a real ID doesn't even count. And I don't know if you've gotten your real ID but it's not easy to get one. That doesn't even count. So you got to have a passport or like there's a whole list of of IDs and the only one that doesn't cost anything is if you have a military ID but you have to present it in person. And you and and and if you are on the USS Gerald Ford in the Persian Gulf it's gonna be very difficult for you to use that ID to register to vote or to vote. And and even if you're registered now if this bill passes everybody would have to re-register. So that's number one number two most of the IDs that you need you need a birth certificate for and if your name is different on your birth certificate you've got to walk through and show well how did your name get from here to there Congresswoman Joyce Beatty told an incredible story about when she went to get her real ID. Same thing your name has to match and she showed up with her birth certificate but it was her maiden name and they were like well your name now is different and she's like yeah because I got married like well we need your marriage certificate so she had to get a copy of her marriage certificate from another state she brought that and it's like well this name is different. She's like oh yeah because I forgot I was married before well we need your divorce decree so she had to go get her birth certificate her original marriage certificate her divorce decree her second marriage certificate and then she got her real ID she'd have to go through that whole process again to register to vote. Second the bill also tries to eliminate mail-in ballots which our military use which homebound people use which the elderly use which rural people that live in rural communities who are far away from the voter registrar's office use and what frustrates me the most about that is President Donald Trump uses and yet so it's okay for him but not for everybody else. So so so that is why the Save America Act will put barriers in the way of people voting when we have fought so hard since the beginning of this country the very first vote ever held in Virginia in 1619 and involved voter suppression. And we have been fighting voter suppression in Virginia and the country at large ever since. And every time we make progress there's this backlash that involves voter suppression violence and intimidation and and propaganda and here the propaganda is well all of these people all of these people who shouldn't be voting are voting and there's no evidence to support that as a matter of fact there's evidence to prove that's just very very rare and and if they do it they go to jail. So that's why I oppose the save the save acts again as somebody whose family had to fight tooth and nail for the right to vote I'm gonna fight tooth and nail any efforts to roll back anybody's ability to vote.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

You know I I know that you're you're not necessarily the uh the the whip but like what what's your sense of like and and I'm only asking because we we spoke with an election expert Jessica Hewsman from Vogebeat and we were asking her about the Save Act you know and her assessment was you know even if it did get passed it would be a nightmare to get it through the system by the midterm there'd be training and all kinds of other stuff and even if they were tried to like shove it through it would just it would just be reckless and it would probably you know really really affect the integrity of of the election. So like like it is are you sensing that that it could potentially pass you know or or are you thinking like it's it's going to be pushed really hard but there just really aren't the votes I think it's gonna be pushed really hard but there aren't the votes in the Senate.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

You know the president has said he won't sign another bill unless it's the Save Act but I think he's backed off of that there's one senator I'm forgetting his name but a senator from Utah who is like adamantly pushing Thune to put it on the floor for a vote but Thune's like we don't have the votes to break the filibuster on it and we don't we probably don't have the votes to pass it. So I think this week folks have pretty much realized it's dead. But with this crowd, you never know. It's like you know there's something over the past year and a half now you've heard this word called reconciliation and reconciliation is a process that the that the part that the majority can use to cut the minority out of the process through budget a budget bill that's what the big that's what the the the HR1 big ugly bill was so they're trying to do a DHS funding reconciliation bill and there's a member of the House and a member of the Senate who are trying to push the SAVE Act as part of that but the Senate rules don't allow policy changes. They only allow budget changes in in that process. So they're still gonna try but I'm I'm hopeful that they're gonna fail.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Yeah I this might be I don't know inside baseball but I I just don't know how like the rules work like could they change the Senate rules to to make it work they would have to change the they could they what what that what some want them to do is completely eliminate the filibuster. There is not the the appetite for that or make it be a talking filibuster because the way the filibuster used to work is you literally had to stand on the floor and talk the entire time and then they put a rule in place that said if you if you have if you don't have the votes to override the filibuster then that counts without having to speak they could try to change the rules to force you know you to talk the whole time Senate Democrats are prepared to talk forever on this and they're just they're not going to get rid of the filibuster because it's it it's in it it protects the minority views like the the the the you may not you may not have the majority but our constitution protects the ability of everybody to participate in the process and so there really isn't any appetite to get rid of the filibuster I'm gonna switch switch topics to Iran because you know since as I as I mentioned at the top you know we originally were going to talk about Venezuela and the capture of their president and since then I don't know if the president is just embolden or or not or what but he went after the president of Iran a a person that I think that if if it had been a different you know president in the White House like could have made an argument to the American people you know even if there wasn't an imminent threat right uh because like that's sort of you get the bully pulpit you get up there you make the case you say hey we got to really do this we got to get stick together and you know here's our common enemy but he didn't do that he decided to take military action continue to take military action and I'm I'm curious about like how does all that the military use of force in in Venezuela and Iran like comport with like the powers that a president actually has.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

So that's an excellent question. It's a complicated answer but so Venezuela technically was not a military strike. Technically it was a law enforcement action because the president of Venezuela I know had been indicted for crimes in federal court and what the Justice Department would say is we used the military to apprehend someone to bring them here for whatever.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

That's what they claim.

SPEAKER_04 33:37

But it was very it was a very narrow very strategic incident that you could argue was not an act of war and did not need congressional approval. Now I don't know if I agree with that but it and it was clearly regime change but it was we're gonna get rid of the president and then the vice president is going to be more compliant with our wishes so even though she's just as bad from a human rights perspective from you know how she treats the people of Venezuela she's good with us so we're gonna let her stay that's what happened in Venezuela. Here so the president can only order a military strike on another country if there is evidence of an imminent threat to the United States if they attack if it's if they attack the United States like Pearl Harbor if they there is an imminent threat to the United States our service members here abroad are in national interest and then they have 60 days and they have to they have to consult with Congress so there's something called the gang of eight which are the Democrat and Republican chair and ranking member of the Armed Services Committee in the House and the Senate and the intelligence committees so president has to consult with them can do this strike and then has 60 days and then they have to withdraw or get approval from Congress none of that happened here what I believe happened is President Benjamin Netanyahu for several years has been trying to convince an American president to attack Iran Iran is governed by very dangerous people who have funded terrorism around the world who can never be allowed to have a nuclear weapon but had not developed a nuclear weapon was nowhere close to developing a nuclear weapon and the de and the Pentagon has said that not Jonathan McClellan the Pentagon has said that the last strikes against Iran knocked back any potential to have a nuclear weapon or build a nuclear weapon decades according to the Pentagon and I think what happened is the president decided I had success in Venezuela we can do this and have regime change it'll be very quick we'll be very successful it'll be over I'll be a hero not understanding how complicated a military strike in Iran would be not understanding the implications of killing the Ayatollah during Ramadan without that imminent threat and the implications of that Ayatollah being replaced by his son who is younger and more radical and and it definitely underestimated Iran's response.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

They have been waiting for something like this for years and so you have a president a secretary of defense who have no clear exit strategy who have no clear plan who have who thought we're gonna go in we're gonna bomb it's gonna be over they're gonna they're gonna you know capitulate and none of that happened they don't know how to get out of this mess that's that's where we are with Iran well thank you for explaining that I appreciate it you know I I would like to think a little bit more like about this war powers resolution right so and I just wondering from you as much as you can you know kind of what do you think about this war powers resolution like is it is this a good thing that we let presidents go and and and enter into these military conflicts even if they talk to certain people like Congress is supposed to declare war but they haven't declared war since what World War II?

SPEAKER_04 38:08

And yet we've been in these Iraq you're right we did.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yeah so but but but all these conflicts right since World War II I guess since that one notwithstanding then none of them have been a declaration of war by Congress right but we've been in conflict losing hundreds of thousands right of American lives so it's like what what do you make of this like maybe for our listeners like this war powers resolution because everyone goes well the Constitution but it's actually not the constitution that's laying it's it's both so so the Constitution says that that Congress declares war but the president is commander in chief so as commander in chief you have certain emergency powers again if if if you are attacked you can respond and if there's an imminent threat you can respond. 9-11 being a key example of us being attacked.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

Yeah and so what the war powers resolution so it was passed in 1973 to to fix the problems that we saw with Vietnam and Korea where as commander in chief the president ordered troops somewhere and Congress never declared war. So what the war powers resolution of 1973 says is if there's an imminent threat then you can deploy service members for a limited engagement for up to 60 days and you have to consult with Congress and you have 60 days to resolve resolve it and at the end and it can be extended for 30 an additional 30 but at the end of that period if Congress does not declare war you have to bring our troops home now you can always do defensive right but this is for offensive if you are sending troops over to attack and and that was designed to say it's Congress's job to decide are we going to send our men and women in harm's way for an extended period of time. But you give the commander in chief the flexibility to respond to emergencies. And the reason the reason our founding fathers wanted Congress to be the one to declare war is because history is full of examples of kings and queens who said I'm having problems at home so I'm gonna go start a war or I want more territory just because I want territory so I'm gonna go start a war.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

And and it's the people who suffer and this and as the people's representatives Congress should be the one to decide when we're gonna go to war just changing gears off Iran I want to talk about AI for a moment. Hitting all the hits yeah well it's like you know I I I know that you you've written about it in like your your newsletter and stuff yeah like it AI seems to just kind of be all over the place and it seems you know some people really enjoy it and are productive and then other people you know like use it for AI slob i e the White House. So I I'd love for you to just like talk about like like what is the impact of AI and like what what are you what are you hearing or studying about it and how it's kind of affecting you know our country.

SPEAKER_04 41:35

So I think you know AI has has a wide impact. Everything from you know use chat GPT to like I used it to I uploaded a picture and said what would I look like if I were an American girl doll, right? Yes my daughter was curious. But it also has been used we just saw to tell someone who wants to shoot you know engage in a mass shooting what types of gun and bullets to use. It can be used to help in healthcare and you know energy deployment it has a wide variety of uses but just like any tool it can be used for good and it can be used for bad. And so my concern with AI is there are a whole lot of policies that we have put in place to protect people, to protect environment to protect communities and they should apply whether the action is being done by a human being or a computer and and so that is where we are struggling as policymakers to figure that out. The bigger impact though is AI uses an incredible amount of energy because all of the data that you the data we're using right now for to record this and for you to post it out the data everybody uses on every internet transaction you use has to be stored somewhere. Well AI generates and uses a ton of data and that's why we need all these data centers. Well a data center one data center one Microsoft data center uses enough electricity and energy to power the city of Seattle yeah yeah like it is scary I can't remember the exact amount but like every chat GPT like the one that I did with the with the American girl doll used a ton of energy and so it is causing two things the proliferation of data centers much faster than we ever expected because we need more and they need to be powered and that is exploding energy demand which is making it harder to meet and for consumers to keep the lights on affordably. And I haven't even gotten into the water that they use because to keep those machines the the the computers and the servers from overheating you know a lot of them use water. So then there's implications for you know water use.

unknown 44:15

So

SPEAKER_04 44:16

So we're we're grappling with all of that, but we're behind. And at the same time, we've got this race with China for AI dominance that's that's as equally as important as the race to who's gonna get on the moon first. Because we want a lot of the AI, whether it's the algorithms used for it, or like we want the computing and everything, we'd rather have it here and controlled by American-based companies and people than in China. So it has national security implications, it has healthcare implications, it has workforce implications, and we're several years behind. I mean, I remember I was at a conference in 2018 where someone was talking about the the rise of AI. And I remember sitting in that conference saying none of our systems are ready for this. And Congress had the House had its first congressional hearing on AI in 2023.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Jeez.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

That is that's really, really, I don't know, I guess disturbing is the thing that comes to my head. But I I I I there's so many things to feel like scared about right now. And it's like I'm just trying to like take it one at a time, you know, one existential threat at a time, Congresswoman. I that's all that's all I can handle. And I just uh it it's like but the AI thing, honestly, like Iran feels existential. Iran, Iran feels existential to me because I don't want a nuclear war to start. And I don't trust our president with those capacities. But AI, AI, I appreciate that. AI is existential, and I don't quite know why. Because I understand that it could take everything over. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

So at, you know, at so I'm on the energy and commerce committee, so we talk about AI a lot, especially the because I'm on the I'm on two subcommittees that deal with it, the energy subcommittee and the communications and technology subcommittee. So we had a hearing with some AI company CEOs, and there was one, this 23-year-old kid who dropped out of MIT to develop a an AI business who had spent time in China, and he said, we have to ensure that human beings control AI and not the other way around.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 46:55

And as a joke, I said, so we really do need to be worried about the age of Ultron. And he's looked me dead in the eye and he said, Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Wait, what? Like, one, he knew what Ultron was, so that's great. Two, like, like he understood kind of like what Ultron could do. So like I I didn't mean to jump in in here, uh Josh. No, it's so good. You're you're you're saying that like if left unchecked, like AI could become an annoying.

SPEAKER_04 47:24

We we have seen robots, we have seen instances where AI and and AI-powered robots lied, where they engage in self-preservation and tried to overcome shutdown protocols.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

Because remember they threatened to blackmail.

SPEAKER_03 47:45

They threaten to blackmail.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

They threaten to blackmail the person, like send out emails of personal information and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 47:53

Yeah, yeah. AI is learning from human beings.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

At an enormous, unimaginable space.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

Yes, and so just like human beings being ethical and moral and legal boundaries, so do they I absolutely agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

And I'm thinking, then this is just a question for you, thinking about the energy issue. I mean, what do we have? What solutions are being uh brought to this energy issue? Because this is, I mean, energy cost is just going up and up. And most people, they're just now becoming aware of the data center issue. Me being one of them, like, oh, collecting it, connecting to dust. Oh, wait, that's an enormous amount of demand, like triple demand, and it's the same amount of people. But the demand is going up. So it's like you can't keep going at that rate.

SPEAKER_04 49:02

And again, even if you even before AI, right now, the average household has 21 connected devices that use and process data, which is a mind-blowing number. And so even before AI, we had the issue with with data. AI just exploded. So there are two two ways I'm gonna answer that question. One, data centers, we are starting to say you need to, you need to pay your fair share of these costs. So in Virginia, the the State Corporation Commission, which is what regulates the electric companies, just approved a new electric rate that data centers will pay for the electricity that they use so that so that that is not spread out over you and me. So we're trying to explore more of that, make them pay their fair share. When they build a data center, say you need to you need to build your own little mini power plant so that you are generating the energy that you need. One good example, and and try to encourage them to use renewables. So we've got we've got a metadata center in Henreiko County out by the airport. It's 100% renewable energy. So they and they they're they have a goal of being 100% you know, net zero, which means they they don't the net of the carbon that they produce is zero. So things like that are important. Um making sure that you're not concentrating a lot of data centers in one area and putting a lot of demand on a regional grid because the the electric grids are are kind of serving a region and not the entire company or or country or a little neighborhood. So that's one side. But we've got to generate a whole lot more energy. And that solar and wind, clean energy is the fastest, cheapest, and and cleanest energy to get on the grid. And we were making a lot of progress in building more of that. And then this president who hates wind for some, I don't know why, he absolutely hates it. He and the Department of Energy came in and cut back, declared war basically on wind and solar energy, and are trying to get more natural gas and coal, but it's slower, it's dirtier, it's less, it's more expensive, it's less efficient.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Do we know why they're doing this? Is it just like lobbyists? Is it just corporations? Is it just they want to destroy the planet?

SPEAKER_04 51:49

Well, I don't think they want to. I don't part they don't believe in the connection between fossil fuels and climate change for whatever reason. They don't believe that. They just really love coal and natural gas. And part of it, I think, is because of the donors that they have. Part of it is because some parts of the country really rely on those those sources for jobs and don't care about the impact that that fossil fuels have on public health and the planet and everything else. And we fight this every day in the energy in the energy committee. And so we are trying to figure out how can we generate more? How can we control demand through things like energy efficiency so that we can reduce demand as much as possible? The president's trying to roll that back. And then how can we build more transmission? Because once you generate it, you've got to transmit it from where you have your power plant to where you need it. And we haven't built new transmission in this country in like 20 years. So we're trying to do some permitting reform to get those transmission lines built more quickly in a way that still balances environmental protection and public safe public safety.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Yeah, that's uh that's that's quite the uh the challenge. But I'm I'm I'm also you know, very um I'm I don't know, I'm optimistic that you know great Congress people like yourself can actually accomplish stuff like that. And you know, my my my last question for you is you know, this year we are going to be celebrating 250 years, America's birthday. You know, you have had quite the path getting to Congress. You know, you are a history maker, maker. And I'd I'd love for you just to kind of just reflect for a moment, like just on what what that means to you. And I'm only asking, I know it's it's April, right? But we're probably not gonna talk before July 4th. So, so like I'd love for you just to kind of opine on like what what that means to you, yeah. And and maybe more importantly, like, are you going to the UFC or the IndyCar race?

SPEAKER_03 54:11

So in redistricting, I get Williamsburg and Jamestown.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

So I'll I'll I'll I'll probably go there. But um I, you know, the idea that the power of government derives from the people, and the idea that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness were revolutionary. And those ideas are only 250 years old, and it was an experiment that we weren't sure was gonna last. And yet and we went from that to a constitution that created a government buy-of for the people, but the ideals upon which this country were founded didn't apply to everybody. You know, I am struck that Virginia in six in July of 1619 was the birthplace of modern you know, American democracy. And a month later was the birthplace of American slavery. And the history of our country has been how do we first reconcile the ideals upon which we were founded with the reality, and then how do we make those ideals true for everybody? And we have made extraordinary progress. I would not be sitting here as the first black woman representing, not only representing Virginia, representing the capital of the Confederacy.

SPEAKER_03 55:42

I will represent next year the the you know Jamestown, where this started.

SPEAKER_04 55:52

But every time we have made progress towards that goal, there's been that backlash that involves violence, propaganda, and voter suppression every single time. We are in that backlash right now. And how we move forward in response to that backlash will determine if the great American experiment survives. Because his history will show, you know, James Madison studied every form of government throughout human history and came up with the Virginia plan that's that formed the basis of our constitution because he said, what makes governments fail? What makes governments fail is when the worst instinct of human nature overtakes government and harms the people, and then the people fight back. And so how do we stop that? We create a government where the power comes from the people and that there's a check on the worst instincts of human nature. Well, right now we have a Congress that refuses to do its job to check the worst instincts of the Trump administration. We have a Supreme Court that we have to really, you know, so far it's doing its job, but that's not enough. And so ultimately it's gonna be up to every single one of us to decide. Do we want to continue? Do we want to achieve that more perfect union, or are we just gonna give up and go the way that every other government and every other society in history went?

SPEAKER_01 57:30

Yeah, I think that's really well said, Congresswoman. Thank you for for saying it. How can people connect to you and what you guys are doing there in the fourth district to just kind of give them a way to uh contact you guys?

SPEAKER_04 57:43

Absolutely. So my website is mcclellan.house.gov. You can sign up for my newsletter and you can f you can see find where to follow me on social media. I'm on X, Facebook, Threads, Instagram as rep mcclellan. And then I'm on blue sky as mclellan.house.gov. I haven't gotten on on I haven't gotten on um TikTok yet.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

What about threads? You're on threads?

SPEAKER_04 58:11

I'm on threads, yes, yes, yes, rep McClellan.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

And then we're on TrueSocial account?

SPEAKER_04 58:18

I am not on TrueSocial, no. No, I am on YouTube though. I'm on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Once and money.

SPEAKER_04 58:25

Yeah, there are too many. There's so many. Every time we think we got them all, a new one comes. So we're like, is this real or is this gonna last? So you can follow me all of those ways, and then you can find out how to call the office or email the office through the website too. And we'll be out, you know, I'm doing this on the official side, but the filing period for the election starts May 1st. So there are other ways you can find me on the campaign side, but both on the official side and on the campaign side, you know, I'll be out in the community. I'll be out and about in the current district, meeting constituents, doing town halls, doing constituent services, and then I'll be campaigning in the new district, getting to know those those new voters and asking everybody to hire me for another two years.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

Wait, you so so on the redistricting thing, it's not really a question on the redistrict theme, but it will Josh be a part of will he be your uh your constituent?

SPEAKER_04 59:23

I think you're Hanover, right?

SPEAKER_01 59:25

Um Hen Rikko.

SPEAKER_04 59:26

Oh, hen Rico. Where in henreco? Probably not. If you're in the Robert Western henreich.

SPEAKER_01 59:31

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_04 59:32

I so I will lose the northwest corner of the district. So right now, the line between Rob Whitman and I is around um like where Virginia Center Commons was. It'll go a little bit east. So I'll have the eastern half, so I won't have you. But I'll and I'll lose sort of Scott's Edition, the first council district in the city, and then down a little around Bon Air and Chesterfield. But I'll pick up Williamsburg and half of James City County, and I'll go to Danville.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

Well, there you go. Oh my wound. Well, thank you so much, Congresswoman, for coming on and spending time with us. It's been a real pleasure.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:12

Thank you. Always love it. And uh we'll do it before a year.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

Absolutely. And to our viewers, guys, make sure you go check out everything that Congresswoman McClone is doing. See what's happening and see what's going on. Take part. Go vote in your own places where you're at. Coming up in this midterm, it's a big important election. And until next time, guys, keep your conversations not right or left, but up. Thanks.