Joy-Tendai Kangere

 Episode: Joy-Tendai Kangere, Barrister, advocate and lecturer
Joy-Tendai speaks with Hogai about her childhood on the continent of Africa and the impact of education and justice that led to a lifelong ambition to become a barrister. They discuss the challenges of racism in school and workplace settings, as a woman and migrant in Ireland, as well as the importance of finding community in a new home.
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Open Mic is a new podcast presented by the Open Doors Initiative which explores the challenges and opportunities of the working world from the perspectives of marginalised communities. The podcast takes the form of short interview segments with individuals who will share their lived experiences and insights.

Guest Host
Introducing Hogai asefi Wardak. Born in Kabul Afghanistan in 2001, the youngest of her family, with 4 sisters and 2 brothers. A family where she could see her older sisters not getting what they wanted in their lives, not reaching their wishes and goals, because her father had never allowed or permitted, and never had an open mind for women to engage, work and participate in community, at that time in their country. 

In 2016, she graduated from high school and was enrolled in Kabul University. She started working with Zan TV, which is a specialized tv network for women. She started to host programmes dealing with Women’s empowerment, Women and sports and various social programmes. 

She also established an educational community for children, to help women and youngsters to get jobs, by joining POOHA NGO and worked with NATO. She’s still working with Zan TV on screen.

Open Doors Initiative

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• Together we carry out training, work experience, mentoring, research and reduce barriers for people who are marginalised
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Transcript

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Hello everyone welcome to Open Mic podcast presented by the Open Doors Initiative which explores the challenge and opportunities of the Working World from the perspectives of marginalised communities the podcast will take the form of short interview segments with individuals who will share their life experiences and insights my name is Hogai asefi Wardak hosting the Open Mic podcast the podcast will be available from the Open Doors website and from different podcast streaming providers it will be promoted online through social media and our member companies and supporting partners Joy-Tendai Kangere, barrister at the Bar of Ireland, writer speaker co-founder of rooted and United in Africa and Ireland welcome JT hi a thank you so much for having me no thanks a million to come here so I'm going to start my questions and my first question will be tell me about yourself your family where you about the childhood you know like I want you to bring you to your childhood this is good okay so I'm from a family of five girls um and we largely grew up within different countries in southern Africa um very much uh a person that grew up as a tomboy I I always wanted to be you know playing rugby playing climbing trees and and scuffling with everyone so really I suppose found out I was female at a very late age so so that that's about me um uh my family still lives in Zimbabwe and um really uh grew up uh with the country that was very beautiful went to a school that really I enjoyed and um I think that was the foundation of uh giving me the the school the the high school that I went to we had the Moto cinu without fear so I've always approached everything in life without we without fear yeah that's nice uh you said like uh you have five girls like you you were the five girls and your family like the youngest one you are or no the first the first wow so like you was the responsible for your sisters yeah am I right absolutely okay so like uh you said that uh still your family is living in Zimbabwe yeah so tell me about like all that the period that you spent in Zimbabwe how was that and how you decide to came to Ireland so I I mean like no one wants to leave their home country and yeah really I came because I had actually done a uh studied in Japan and did some it so got when I was invited to uh to transfer the skills to Ireland and I took the opportunity um it was only for 6 months and uh 20 years later I'm still here uh where is the journey to becoming barrister here in Ireland JT so um it goes back to my childhood where I saw the injustices growing up I mean having to go in South Africa to go to separated toilets and having to see people being brutally uh tortured because of the colour their skin really uh irked me to I mean to find Justice and to be trying to be a voice for those that are usually voiceless yeah so I knew from the age of six that I wanted to be someone age of six yes the age of six that was actually wanted to be a lawyer or someone that drives and advocates for equity and equality and but I also knew that I just didn't want to be just a lawyer I knew I wanted to be a barrister because I had watched uh Rumpole of the Bailey which was one of the old English uh programs and uh that gave me you know being that so that's where the journey started um saying that no one should be especially in terms of you know the skin they born in that there shouldn't be those injustices and I also would like to say that I was very inspired by Ruby Bridges whose birthday was uh last week yeah her fearlessness and I think at some stage I was one of only two black children in a school and we also had to face those difficulties uh Joy you mentioned the skin colour and these kind of problems uh I'm going to ask you like what barriers you have faced to be an African woman well I mean the barriers would have started still in school where you know when you go and talk to a career guidance counselor and you tell them that this is my plan in life and they'll tell you you can't be because you literally the the excuse is it's leading to who you are and your social you know you're not you can't fit in there um I've I've had to and I still when I represent myself or present myself in in front of people I hate talking about what I am I want people to know who I you know to appreciate me as who I are and I just find sometimes there is such a lot of microaggressions or just you know I'm just put off as a person um and sometimes I actually just you know not just sometime because it is part of my African I actually put a a scarf over my head and I find that the more that I'm more representative of myself the worse the attitudes become so it is it is those things that you you know besides being in the professional arena the societal day to day and trying to survive in in in that uh Joy I'm asking you the legal world considerate quite prestigious and proper so many people might assume that there is less racism but that's not really true so it's more subtle what do you think high level professional bodies should tackle these issues within their organizations and uh like uh membership so what is your idea okay so I mean I find that the more Ireland has always been like a monolithic society and the more that people come in I mean we we're talking normally we it say that migration has happened in the last 20 or 25 years but I would argue with that because even in the 1800s there were black people that were living in Ireland married to Irish men you know and this is this is nothing new you know having that so I found that because we don't have um a system like affirmative action in Ireland I'm respected for that I'm a capable and person so I get that respect I've worked hard and sometimes I feel that I've worked 10 times harder because of my intersectionality black African woman you know all those three come in you know women also have that um and I I just really think that it brings back we need to go back it's not about high level it's about going back to to this philosophy that we have in southern Africa called Ubuntu I am because we are if we see the person as human we we shouldn't you know everyone knows how to treat their animals well I agree how to motivate them exactly so what is the difference between a human being and something that you're precious so um it's not about doing diversity and equality training it's about you seeing a person that is opposite you you know like we're sitting here and seeing yeah and seeing us as human and once you carry that once you get rid of those societal or socialization biases you know and understand we have the issue of The Travellers as well you know like I can't speak on their experiences but I know and I've worked with people from The Travelilng community and they have like really experienced like a century of being sidelined so it is important that we start from children in in in primary in the home yeah charity begins at home and it starts from the home exactly and once that's carried out that goes into the individual into the institution into decision making and Society has that acceptance you know where we're not teaching people to respect other people you know or to accept or to tolerate but an acceptance like we can say that it belongs to the awareness too that it starts from the home yeah yeah uh JT like uh I mentioned that you're writer too speaker too so just tell me that what do you write mostly and where you're speaking about what issues okay so my passion for writing uh started when I was very young as well uh poetry wow um I won actually award for the un uh humanitarian poetry and I always felt that through writing yeah thank you um through writing you can you know what you say stays in you know in people's hearts yeah um and I've written a lot on on that on just really observant of what happens as as human beings um carry that over um when I came here and wrote a few articles in creating awareness uh for the independent um which top of that you know it it seems like in in Ireland there's a difficulty in accepting um the fact that people can be discriminatory around so I agree my articles every time I wrote an article I would have like threats and you know so many things so I've taken a step back from writing that because it's not but I I continue to speak in terms of speaking I work with different uh multinational companies uh um I've worked with different people in the arts um and training and it's not really training but having discussions of going back to that and I speak to young people because it it is important to to empower I speak with everyone from different uh migrant backgrounds who might want you know to have that empowerment and through uh Rooted in Africa and Ireland we've done you know different workshops to empower men young people but also I speak mostly on in terms of the effects of um uh discrimination how it affects people's mental health yeah and that is what something that I'm very passionate about and continue because um we've had incidences especially you know going back to uh last week September where it was the 4th anniversary of Mia O'Neil who died by suicide due to racial bullying and that is part of the conversation that we should start having so that's those are the topics really that I talk about so you did a lot for yourself you know and I appreciate that I really appreciate that uh so beside all of these things JT uh I want to ask you very where personally question we you it for your own soul for your own personal life like uh I think you're a parent too so tell me about your own family you have a family here in Ireland yeah yeah I've got two um two children and I think well when I when I talk about myself the fact that I'm a mother comes first yeah um really empowered by seeing you know trying to have a better life because when I was growing up I thought by the time I had my children we wouldn't have issues with discrimination or othering and um it's sad for me so mostly they they are my uh accountability partners what you know if one day when I'm sitting in a retirement home and my children ask Mama what did you do for the I agree yeah for us usually um I do a lot I I love um nature so I do a lot of walking um and really appreciating uh just you know what we have in in in nature I listen to a lot of music yeah I I do a lot of reading um and I suppose just yeah just to to keep yeah should I ask you what kind of music I actually listen to a lot of 60s and 70s music so uh more town I know uh the likes of uh Diana Ross the Lionel Richie um but also I'm listening to a lot of uh recent music because my daughter likes I think it's called Kad or something so we I know there's lot of music but like um it's it's so um I'm me I'm also inspired because I grew up listening to my mom my mom is a a a really loved um Phil Lynott so I I I I listen to a lot of Thin Lizzy so that's that's the that's the music that I try and give my children because I feel like there's no the music that is there now has no taste but that's that's me um just keeping it keeping it me that's that's me that's my my thing yeah that's nice Joy being a mother uh you know like raising the people while also like speaker writer how it's possible can you give me your success key where is the success key um who is behind you you know there's like someone is behind her or be behind him so who is behind you to motivate you that much um the great motivator are my children um but also I account this because I had to change career I account to my drive now to and attribute my son who died in 2013 yeah he's always been he's my angel and I kind I I do things um you know in the fact that what could he have done if he had lived um I do it for my father um who you know although not being South African fought for the South Africans and ended up being a political prisoner um and his death really affected me and um so for all those that have gone before me and for those that have come after me and for all those that have not had the life or had their lives taken because of injustices and so many women whose stories that I've come across and living in Ireland that have sacrificed a lot of Migrant women their stories umh that's that's that's what keeps my fire going that's good like there is no pain no gain yeah uh JT you came here in Ireland and you accomplished lots of achievements uh being as a migrant uh what is your message to other immigrants to achieving their goals what they should do you know again I always look at what has happened in different communities I'm very aspired by the Chinese and Asian communities um no man is an island when you come into a new country you have to and the Irish people do it you know they look for the first get together and have your community because you need that and I find that really it's not about it's not about assimilating it's about integration and it's a two-way that you know as as as migrants we need to learn about Irish culture which is why I you know I was lucky that I was taught by Irish teachers so I knew a lot of about Ireland before I came here and also got in to learn like the history and the people and get to know so you need you need that because you you're building a new base you know you've moved away from your soil and you're in new soil and if you don't have that basis you're just floating so I would say really connecting with community making the connections yeah um sharing information because you always if you don't have information you're always going to be one step back and I find that those people that have shared information with me um especially from a migrant perspective have helped me propel and not to pull the ladder from you know I don't want to be the the only person that is up there or you know going up I want to have in a room to have everyone at the table I want to have to see when to see when we have any meetings or communities that every person that calls Island home is at the table so it is that sense of coming together community looking for the networks um it's not an easy it's not an easy road um because you always be judged by whatever community that you're from so it is you you're doing it to prove your yourself I always do it for the first is me me and God if what I'm doing is good and and I feel that God will not judge me and approves of that then I'm in the right direction and the next thing is am I being authentic to the work that I'm doing but we always you know as my my make I think just to summarize don't try and be uh a a crab in the bucket yeah you know don't try and step over other people in order for you to succeed bring everyone with you and you find that it's an easier it's not a lonely journey it it it is more enjoyable and the more that we you have more networks you can actually um achieve more and and call this home that's nice like it's so nice and enjoyable to having you in the studio uh JT but as a last question I'm going to ask you that how did you describe the island you know the culture the weather the people cause now uh like you're a citizen here you know and you have lots of experience so how did you describe the island so again going back to my childhood and I I'll be very brief is that I I I was taught by as I said Irish teachers and I knew we celebrated and had to dress up for for St Patrick's Day yeah and really it that brought me closer to Ireland um the similarities between the troubles and what was happening in in apartheid South Africa also brought me to understand that but what what I love about Ireland is that really and it's we go back to the Brehon laws you know where there was that issue that there was the real Cead Mile Failte you know and you are the thousand welcomes and I feel that besides the scenery and everything we've lost a bit of those thousand you know those million uh welcomes actually just left with you know a few 10 of them and if we could go back I love Ireland um if I didn't I wouldn't um stay here and I was reading a quotation last week that says uh home is not where you are born but home is where you do not want to escape anymore and I feel that I do not want to escape anymore from my exactly yeah so you feel home in Island yes and I wish people would actually see me as part of you know of being here in Ireland like I I won't say that I'm I'm Irish I'm an Irish citizen um but I I am home this is the big bind this this is this is where all my fears uh I don't have to escape anymore got it yeah so JT it was a nice chat to you like even I'm so happy that I'm with you and I got motivated thanks a million for taking the part with Open Mic and uh thanks a lot no thank you so much for having me pleasure thanks a million this was an amazing chat with Joy-Tendai Kangere barrister at the Bar of Ireland writer and speaker thanks a million for listening just stay tuned for the next episode of Open Mic from open doors we hope you found the series helpful please follow us online at open doors work on Instagram LinkedIn and and Twitter thanks a million