Turning Readers Into Writers

066 - Navigate co-writing with Autumn J Birt & Jesper Schmidt

June 10, 2021 Emma Dhesi Season 1 Episode 66
Turning Readers Into Writers
066 - Navigate co-writing with Autumn J Birt & Jesper Schmidt
Show Notes Transcript

Autumn and Jesper share their journeys to writing. Jesper came to writing later in life, it was something he always wanted to do, but it wasn’t until he went on holiday to Finland that he had an ‘ah ha’ moment, one that led him to start writing straight away rather than wait for the perfect time.

She wasn’t long out of college when Autumn began writing, and have been doing so for a number of years before she met Jesper on Twitter and they became friends.

Later they decided to pull their assets and respective skills to start writing non-fiction books together. A few years later they decided to write fiction together. 

We discuss the benefits of co-writing. For Autumn and Jesper this includes brainstorming and pulling ideas together, the advantage of one person coming up with an idea that the other person might never have come up with on their own.

By combining their two styles, they have developed a voice that is neither one nor the other but unique.

They share how they actually write their books. Jasper devises an outline using the seven pillars of story structure. He sends that outline to Autumn. 

They discuss it, decide on any changes or alterations that need to be made, and once it is agreed, Jasper writes the first draft. He then sends that to Autumn who “overwrites” his first draft. 

Jesper emphasises is the need for compromise and being open to ideas for a successful co-writing relationship to flourish. 

They later tell me about their podcast, Am Writing Fantasy, and the new project they are working on. 

If you’re thinking about co-writing a book, this is definitely an episode to listen to.

Connect with Autumn J Birt and Jesper Schmidt

Welcome - AmWritingFantasy

Ylecium | A New World Awaits



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Emma Dhesi:

Hello, I'm Emma Dhesi and welcome to another episode of turning readers into writers. If you're brand new here, welcome. And here's what you need to know. This is a community that believes you are never too old to write your first novel, no matter what you've been up to until now, if you're ready to write your book, I'm ready to help you reach the end, I focus on helping you find the time and confidence to begin your writing journey, as well as the craft and skills you need to finish the book. Each week I interview debut authors, editors and industry experts to keep you motivated, inspired, and educated on all things writing, editing, and publishing. If you want to catch up, head on over to emmadhesi.com, where you'll find a wealth of information and tools to help you get started. Before we dive in, this week's episode is brought to you by my free cheat sheet 30 Top Tips to find time to write. In this guide, I give you 30 ways that you can find time to write in the small gaps that appear between the various errands and tasks and responsibilities that you have in your day to day life. Now, you might be thinking that you don't have any time to spare, but I can guarantee these top tips will give you writing time you didn't think you had. If you thought writing always involved a pen and paper or a keyboard. Think again. If you thought you needed at least an hour at a time to write your manuscript. I help you reframe that you won't be disappointed. Get your free copy of 30 Top Tips to find time to write by going to emmadhesi.com forward/30 Top Tips. Okay, let's dive in to today's episode. Autumn J Birt won her first writing contest in high school and has gone on to have a book nominated for best book of 2017. She won Best world building and has had other when Readers Choice Awards. Writing has become a passion. Usually she writes primary fantasy from Epic to dark. But all of them have both heroines and heroes, epic landscapes, and since she's a bit of a romantic at heart usually have a bit of love along the way. Jesper Schmidt is a best selling fantasy author, who also doubles in nonfiction. So if you need help with writing, publishing and marketing, Jesper can be found at I'M writing fantasy. together. They are the names and faces behind the website. I'm writing fantasy, and the website self publishing success, where they help writers get their books written. So let's dive into our conversation with the two of them find out how they got started in writing, and how they work together, we'll discover the nitty gritty of what it means to be a co writing partnership, and the benefits to being a co writing partnership. And then we learn some more about their podcast, I'm writing fantasy. So let's get listening. Well, Jesper, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm thrilled to have you on the show.

Jesper Schmidt:

Thank you.

Emma Dhesi:

So I wonder if you could start by letting me know about your journey to writing How did you become a writer and get to the place where you are now?

Jesper Schmidt:

Yeah, I guess opposite to a lot of other people that are you usually listen to on podcasts when they are asked this question. They always say, I always knew I wanted to be a writer. And it's been with me since I was a child. And I started writing at five but that's really not me, to be honest. I've always, always loved you know, the fantasy genre. I've always read it and what's his fantasy movies and all that stuff? I've always been in love with that. But I think it wasn't until I became an adult at some point that I started thinking about that it would be fun to write some stories. But then I also thought that well, it's something I could get back to one day, you know, one once I retire something I could sit down and I could start writing some books and and then every summer usually we go to we go to Finland on vacation. And in Finland, they have this wonderful saunas. So you just sit in the sauna, and you relax. And you think and then it was there one night that I just started thinking, why is it that I have gotten this idea into my head that I should wait 20 years until I retire or something? What Why couldn't I just start writing? And then the next morning, I had my laptop there as well. So I pulled it up the next morning and I started writing the most awful stuff. The world will never see but I started writing. And yeah, I never stopped.

Emma Dhesi:

Actually, I've come across a few people now in my in my podcasting life that have said, you know, it took them a while to realize actually this is something I really want to do something I love. Why Why am I doing things off if I enjoy it, so And I'm a bit like that, too. I was sort of, well, I did always know I wanted to write, but it took me a long time to actually make the decision to do it. And then right, I made the decision, it was all good. Now you write together, not everything, but you do some writing together with your colleague, Autumn, Autumn J Birt. And I wonder if you could share with us a little bit just you know, how you met, and then how you realize that you would be a good writing team? Because it's something that not many of us do. A lot of us still are in our garretts by ourselves, we do you kind of want to try at least co-writing.

Jesper Schmidt:

Well, yeah, it was a bit of a long journey, to be honest. It's started quite a lot, quite a lot of a lot of years back. And I, we Well, I think we met on Twitter first used to we just talking about something but I at that point in time, I had just released my book on fantasy map-making. And I think Autumn saw some tweets about that, or something like that. And so she we ping pong debate there on Twitter, we also emailed a bit for a while just like different things, you know, just normal things, nothing to do with with Co working or co authoring at all. And about the same time, Autumn had also started the I am writing fantasy website and blog and it was going fairly well, it's she was pretty surprised that nobody has snapped up that URL yet. So so she bought it and started blogging there, and about writing and all those different things. And then she at some point, felt like, because she's traveled a lot, you know, she was basically like, she didn't have a stationary place at all. She just traveled our drive, drove around US with her husband and dog, and experience things and wrote wherever she wants, and she felt like she could need a bit of help. So she was thinking, I wonder if there's somebody I could work with to, to manage this. I'm writing fantasy stuff, as well. And she had also just built a writing course at that point in time and courses was something that I was already thinking about way from the beginning that I would really like to do that one day, because I love the teaching, I love the sharing stuff. But building a course is one thing is sort of putting the material together. But another thing is all the technical things about it, you know, you know, the cost platforms, you need to ensure that people can get in unless they paid and all that stuff. And I didn't know how to manage that at all. So I sort of just had a mental note about I need to figure that out at one day. And then Autumn reached out to me and asked if I wanted to work together on on the am writing fantasy stuff and I was thinking Well, yeah. But if we're to work together, I think I want to expand it quite a lot more. So I went back to her say yeah, I'm interested. But I was actually thinking that why wouldn't we do a lot of other things as well, because I want to get into the course stuff. You already have some platform to do that. And she knows all the technical stuff, all the website building and all she knows how to do all that, which I don't. So. So I was trying to tap into that a bit and see, can we work together on that as well. At the time, I also had a I had a YouTube channel, I was running at the time and was struggling a bit with it as well. So we ended up deciding to we had we had a couple of video meetings just to align, do we want the same thing? What is our goals here? And what are we trying to build, but that aligned very well. And because of it, then we decided to Well, it was probably good time to start working together. So we actually started only on the non-fiction stuff, meaning that all the all the ad writing fantasy, brandish is covering everything to do with, with advice and teaching other authors and so on. So that's actually where we started. And we went like that for a long while. We wrote a couple of non-fiction books together. And then somewhere along the way, we decided why don't why don't we just write the fiction stuff together as well. So that's what we've started as well. And basically this 2021 we have fully dedicated to to writing fiction together. So that's what we are really doubling down on now.

Emma Dhesi:

Oh, it says so yeah, it's been a it's been a journey of discovery for both of you. I like the idea that and you both sort of come to the table with different assets, different skill sets, and I've been able to put them together to kind of drive this both the writing fantasy and the success school together as well. So that same it's nice to find someone that you've got those skill sets and that overlap but also that you've got a common kind of goal the common ambition for the for the business as well. Now, before We started recording we did kind of talk about, or you mentioned that there are a number of benefits to co-writing. So for those of us that don't call write what has been your experience, so far of the benefits of doing that?

Jesper Schmidt:

Well, that there is a number of things as long as you can work together. Of course, that's sort of the starting point if you if you're able to, to figure out how to make things work between you. But I think in terms of benefits, there is for one, or for a start there is the fact that when you do the stories, and you figure out what support what is this supposed to be about, or even, of course, we write fantasies, we also do some world building and all that stuff. You can really challenge each other in terms of trying to find out is this really the best thing we can come up with. And usually, I've at least found that when we do it together, then the end result becomes much, much better and much deeper, because we can, if I default into my standard thinking, you know, I can get you understand that and viceversa. So that's always good. And also, for us, at least, probably not for everybody. But for us. We are quite lucky in the sense that we just, it just happened so that we like to do the different things. So autumn loves to do the editing, and making everything sound very good and wonderful. And she's very good at it and adding all the characterizations, and so on. And I don't like that, so, so I can do my things that I love to do. And then she can do her things that she loves to do. So I think that's, that's lucky for us, of course, and not maybe not every author of Co-writing relationship will be like that, but at least it is for us.

Autumn J Birt:

Sorry, I was a little late. I had this written down wrong.

Emma Dhesi:

No, don't worry, don't worry, we're recording. Don't worry. I'm just gonna say we had a few. You know, tech things that happens and including time zones. I know all about those. But then just a welcome awesome onto the show. Glad that you can be with us. awesome thing. Thank you so

Autumn J Birt:

Yes. It's fantastic to be you. And I will much. definitely chip into that question is that yes, it was also amazingly good at plotting and making sure we have the foundation down. And that's definitely when I was writing my own stuff. I'm not a pantser. But I'm not as big a plotter. And he's just so good at making sure we stay online. And I think it adds an extra ounce of influence to the world that when I'm writing my own stuff, I usually have to, you know, edit it in later. So it ends up being a better product. It's definitely one plus one is, is not a one, it's a multiplication, we're getting such a better advanced by helping each other out and being partners in this.

Emma Dhesi:

Yeah, certainly finds it. I mean, even the kind of coming together bringing your two businesses together, it sounds like you have complementary skills and assets that work really well together. And I wonder if I just go back to the beginning. Awesome. And would you mind sharing with our listeners, how you came to writing and got to where you are today. We'd love to hear from you.

Autumn J Birt:

Absolutely. I I've always enjoyed writing. I've always been a big fantasy reader. And that's how I discovered fantasy was a short story by Ed McCaffrey driving impression and that was it. I was in love with fantasy at that point from that moment on. And I always even in high school actually want to short story contest. So I'd always written a little bit, but it's just something I did on the side. Even though I was an English major. I didn't take it seriously. Except I would often write in my notes like in college, you know, you're supposed to be taking notes, I'd often flip to the back of the my notebook and start writing short stories. And eventually my husband actually found one when we're still dating. And he said it was just he thought it was fantastic. And he's like, you have to keep this up. So I started developing it, I took some extra, despite the English degree took some extra creative writing classes, some novel writing classes as an adulted. And he had actually shared with me a story of working for the US government, an agency and RCS at the time. And he shared a very similar story about a different civil servant, that self published. And she was doing that while working and he's like, this is like you and I read that in December and I think February of that next year, I published my first book on Amazon.

Emma Dhesi:

Exciting times. Ammm now I was just saying before I came across you and I guess and by default or by extension Jesper as well. And through the women in publishing summit that you were speaking on. Ammm so I wonder you were talking there about how you can outline and write together. So 90 to 100,000 words in under three months, which are the fantasy writers out there given this you know how big the books are, that will be a dream, I'm sure. So could you talk us through your outlining process?

Autumn J Birt:

Yes. Well, I mean, Jesper as we together, we wrote a book on plotting, and it really does step you through it. And I mean, it really comes down to, Oh, Jesus, I don't even know where to start to go ahead Jesper you are the one who didn't, he always does the first write through of the book and we have adapted that it came from both of our own spheres of how we worked. And then he kind of combined it into one and that is how we're working. But to me, even as a pantser, I think having an outline, and we break it down to a word count and the chapter goal, if you can start with that. And I also really loved using the seven steps of story structure, which I think I talked about in the woman's self publishing course, or event that it's, if you can take those two things up the barest minimum, having a chapter count a word count, and then divide that up into the seven stages of story structure, you have a very quick outline, you can do that in half an hour to just a couple days. And if you're a pantser, then you can dive into it. And if not, yes, we're gonna tell you more about the product.

Emma Dhesi:

So if I could just ask, though, so as a pantser, you don't find having an outline? And inhibiting? Because, you know, sort of constraining or actually, is it loose enough that you're able to kind of still be free?

Autumn J Birt:

it's loose enough. And I'm definitely a hybrid, I think being 100%. Pants are the for yesterday, and I both started off as pantser, we both had the exact same experience, I think I was three chapters into my first my debut novel, and I was totally lost, the characters were lost, I was lost, I didn't know what was gonna happen next. And I'm like, you need more structure than this, I could not go blind. And so I had always, even now if I'm writing on my own, I have a very loose outline, where I have an idea of what happens in every chapter, but it might be two sentences. Okay. And when I get to that chapter, I fill in some details like what is the beginning? What's the climate, you know, I make sure there's a chapter structure. So it rolls from there. And then you have to have some kind of guideposts to make sure you're writing very good chapters, and that you're not going to go back and either don't have her book or waste time on things. Because to get it done in three months, you do need to have your goalposts and you need to know your map. If we're writing together, you have to have a lot better communication, and we have a much stronger outline. And I think yes, for is more towards the plotter anyway, so it works out really well that way.

Jesper Schmidt:

Yeah, I like I like the plotting, because I hate redoing work. That's like, once I'm done with a chapter I want it to be done. I don't want to go back to it.

Autumn J Birt:

I am a lighter I like doing things in layers. This is totally different.

Jesper Schmidt:

But but at least in terms of writing together, I mean, if you write alone, you can probably sort of find your own way through it and find whatever works for you. But at least when you write together, you need to be pretty aligned on where's this thing going, what are we trying to tell with this story, and, and so on. And if you don't have that under control, you are going to rewrite stuff or you're going to end up like 15 chapters later, one person will say, Well, this is not what I thought was supposed to happen. And then you have the problem, right? So we try to actually plot out well, fairly detailed in terms of what is going to happen not not on a chapter by chapter level, but more like, here's the structure of what's going to happen through the Seven Pillars of story structure and how we're going to touch upon each one. I just I haven't sent it to Autumn yet, but I just finished up the the plotting structure or pillars for the next book today. on it, email it to all them today. But that's words just to as an example, right. So so there is quite some content there in term, but you have to because you have to sort of fake out all the not all the details. I was about to say deep but but only ever even though also details because especially with the character development and so on, where is this stuff going? And what are we turning this character into? Because we are writing series as well. So it needs to set up the next book correctly as well. So yeah, it requires some planning

Emma Dhesi:

So congratulations on getting that plan done for today.

Autumn J Birt:

We're doing this on even our podcast, does it go? Did I not tell you this? No, you didn't. That is so exciting.

Jesper Schmidt:

I do it on purpose.

Emma Dhesi:

So my next question then would be so yes, but you send it to Awesome, awesome, has a look at it and say she's like, oh, not keen on this. How did that discussion go? How do you kind of work out? Either a change of direction or adding things in or taking things away? How do you negotiate that?

Jesper Schmidt:

Yeah, well, I I think for us, at least So far, we've been lucky in the sense that we've never really ended up in head butting anything, we might sometimes have a slightly different view on where we want them. But then we just have a conversate, we have like a weekly standing meeting the two of us. So we usually we can just oftentimes as minor things, we've just worked them out over email. Other times, we, we might discuss it during our weekly session, just And usually, actually, I feel like we end up in third place where from where we started. So we end up with like a hybrid thing between what one of us and the other one said, that we're happy with. But I think personally, at least, that if you are co authoring, you cannot be too precious about your ideas. Because if you only want your way, and then it you might not find a writing partner who can wait right with you, because you have to be a bit open minded to say, okay, but maybe this let's explore this other idea a bit. And let's see if it's better. And sometimes it's not. And that's, that's sometimes when we end up with the third version, or sometimes one of us just says, okay, you're right. And then that's it. But I don't know, we've been pretty lucky that in general, we we always say we think alike. So we don't have too much to argue about.

Autumn J Birt:

Yes. And I think it's very interesting, because we were on different from different countries, we have different backgrounds. But we ended up I think I I moved more towards Danish than yesterday's towards us. So he can take lunch, you we have planned conversations, and there's no criticism, it's no critiquing each other as our skills, we both feel very strongly that each other has very strong skills, we have great respect for each other. And we can just have frank conversations, it's about the story making the best story we can not whose story is it and who gets this character. It's about creating something together. And that's what you have to keep in mind. And we both have come from management background. So we are used to talking to people in a very, like creative, constructive feedback sort of way. So combine those two things. And you know, we're usually going ever talking about writing instead of a business meeting. This has been fantastic. Let's talk about magic and fantasy and dragons. And we're good.

Jesper Schmidt:

What's not to like?

Emma Dhesi:

So that brings up another question, then how do you decide who's writing? What do you do chapter by chapter, alternate chapters, sections of the book? How'd you do?

Jesper Schmidt:

Yeah, well, so well, we never know if we're going to change it at some point in the future. But at least the way we do it will have done it for both the nonfiction books, but also the fiction books that we're writing now is that I do the entire first draft, I do all the first draft writing, and then I give it to autumn, and then I let her do her thing. And I don't look at it again. So once I'm done, I leave it with her. So she will change some things. And she will add it and she will edit to it and whatever. But I don't look at it again. And that's maybe going back to your initial question about how do we do a fantasy novel in three months, because if it has to go back to me, and I have to start rewriting it and questioning it again, it's going to take a very long time. So instead, I just trust that autumn will take care of it. She knows what she's doing. And that's it. And I don't see it again. So I'll just start the next book and the next first draft. And once he does the previous book.

Autumn J Birt:

Yes. Okay. So yeah, I just added, you know, I could change the dialogue, I could, I added a whole bunch of different elements, I could add more description, I just, it's taking a first draft. And it's more than just editing it is overriding it sort of so it's I add my own version on top of his and so he has the framework, and then I have the finish polish and then once I've gone through it my like I love doing rounds. So I do like, two three rounds, and then we send it off to the editor.

Emma Dhesi:

I see. Because I've maybe that answers my question then because I was wondering, okay, well, how then if you've got two different people writing the same story, how did we find the voice then how does the voice come through? But it's from what you're saying? It sounds like perhaps it's an amalgamated voice?

Autumn J Birt:

Yes, it is. It's not mine. It's not Yes for us. It's a totally different one from either of us alone. And I think that's what's interesting. And that's why it's better because there's definitely nuances. I'm one I think that the different genders, the different cultures, everything else comes together to create something that neither of us would do on our own. And so yeah, I can see a book that I wrote solely by myself, I can see what I'm writing with yes for. And it's, it's cool to me, I think the version of us together. It's a totally different story I could never do on my own. And I just love that. It's It's a fantastic experience.

Emma Dhesi:

And so what about then got the book, it's finished. Now we need to cover how do you guys decide on what's options, putting your hand up there so you get to your side.

Autumn J Birt:

I do why I've asked you to degrees of my first degree was English in studio art. So I'm a graphic artist and do book covers professionally as well for other authors. So that's definitely, to me, it's more finding the time to do as much art as I'd like to, which working with yes for is actually freeing up a lot of my time, because the writing is not the slog of doing it on your own, you get it's a little more fun, I can take more breaks. So I'm drawing a lot more, which is fantastic. But yeah, I get to do the covers and I usually come up with just like I would do with any process for any author, I come up with some mock ups, we talk about ideas, we do a market research thing, what is looking good, happily, yes, for often just says, hey, these are books that are in the same genre that I like something that that asked for it, and then they come up with ideas and send it back to home. And yeah, we end up with some cover art.

Emma Dhesi:

Sounds like a very harmonious relationship? Indeed.

Jesper Schmidt:

It is, yeah, we still have to, we still have it ahead of us the first time, we really strongly disagree about something that hasn't happened yet. At least.

Autumn J Birt:

That hasn't been we've been together three years. So we'll get there eventually. Maybe

Emma Dhesi:

Announcing this, but it is something I just as I progressed through my career more and more, and I listened to Joanna pen a lot, so more and more aware of kind of intellectual rights. And I've got a bit of a property background. And I know that when you kind of go into business together, it's very important to have things clearly delineated. And did you guys do this? Or did you just throw your hat in and go for it? What was the process for you?

Jesper Schmidt:

Yeah, so we actually have a call it a fairly detailed contract between us. that defines the property, intellectual rights, but it also goes into detailing what would happen if one of us was disabled or died or whatever, because if we go 20 years down the road from here, who knows? You know, we might have like, 50 books that earns a million dollars a year? Who knows, you know, and and we need to have predetermine what happens then. Because if somebody isn't here anymore, and there was all of a sudden a million dollars floated out there, I assume that their families would like some sort of part of that. So we have actually defined that in in contracts already, so that it's clear. And it's already decided what happens. Also, if one of us would want to bring in a third party, at some point, for whatever reason, the contract also says, how's that supposed to work, and so on. So we tried, there's probably something we forgotten, but we tried to cover all our bases in that contract so that there's no reason to argue about it, because it says right there how it's supposed to work. Yeah.

Autumn J Birt:

And I think that was very much if we couldn't have gotten through that initial paperwork, how are we going to get through, you know, years of business together. So I think it's very foundational to authors are gonna work together to figure that out beforehand, because if you can't handle that conversation, when it gets to something you're passionate about, and maybe you're not thinking, you know, you're like, I have to have the character do this, this has to happen. You know, if you have to be able to talk about bland, boring, dull stuff, like what happens if one of us can't work for a year, and you know, something else comes up, or you have a family emergency, and you just need to step back for a while? How does that work? If you can't have that conversation, you probably don't want to dive into something you're extremely emotionally attached? Oh,

Emma Dhesi:

Yeah, thank you for sharing that with us. Because I think it's a, it's a really important part of any business relationship. But when you're in the excitement of finding something to write with, it can be easily forgotten. So thank you for sharing that with us.

Jesper Schmidt:

But and also, now I just wanted to say that it was just a side remark to what you said. But I just wanted to say that it's also a million times easier to discuss those things, when you're not in the middle of an argument about it. predefining them in the contract when everybody's calm, there is no situation. So you can just define this as how it's supposed to work and you're very calm about it, right. So it's really nice, just lay down in the contract, and it's out of the way, and you don't have to discuss it today. The house is on fire.

Emma Dhesi:

Good analogy, good analogy. So I'm gonna move on a little bit now to asking you about your podcast because you guys do a podcast together called I'm writing fantasy. So could you tell us a little bit about it and what listeners might expect from it?

Autumn J Birt:

Oh, absolutely. It's been we just recorded what Episode 124 and I only know that because I was thinking when we passed 123 I'm like, well, that would be a 123. But fine. I mean, before that we actually had a YouTube channel but we moved into doing a podcast and I love it. I love having the podcast. It's a much different format. let's let's let's be real, which I didn't even know what it was until Yes, we had explained it to me with the robots. I did not come from a film background. I came from like painting oil paints onto Canvas background, so they don't move. But it was oh we talked about you know writing tips. We talk about marketing tips. We have interviews we had you on a pen or We've had Chris Fox, we've had so many great, fantastic people on the podcast. And we've actually started doing something which is even more fun. I think we have way too much fun with this as we started doing a humorous episode every month. And they're usually competing lists of usually like the worst magic system ever, or the worst world. And so those are I think their listeners like it, but I do.

Emma Dhesi:

I do find that you get to...

Jesper Schmidt:

We have a lot of fun.

Emma Dhesi:

Did you find that you get and only fantasy readers or writers or actually do you? Does it? You get people from all different genres?

Autumn J Birt:

That's a good... marketing. Yeah.

Jesper Schmidt:

Yeah, well, it's pretty much for I mean, it is called am writing fantasy, because we're trying to speak to two fantasy authors, obviously. But it is really for any genre, because we talk about writing and book marketing and publishing and stuff like that, in general. So I mean, there's nothing in book marketing that is specific to fantasy versus over writing horror, or romance or whatever, it doesn't really matter. So, yeah,

Autumn J Birt:

just the worst. And systems usually are the ones that will come up. But those are more fun, because you get to pick that just for the characters. All the other things we talk about are definitely platform wide, and what every author is facing these days.

Emma Dhesi:

But I'll be sure to put a link so that people can find it easily in the show notes. So yes, but you mentioned that you've done the outline of something. And my next question is going to be you know, What, are you both working on either together or independently?

Jesper Schmidt:

Yeah, so yeah, I just mentioned the outline. So at the moment, the we are 2021, is dedicated to fiction writing. So we have already co written and made a short story available in a brand new fantasy world that we've created, which is the idea is that it'll host all our books and stories, that world. So we have a short story already made available. The first draft of book, one in a new series has been written and Autumn is doing her thing with that. And yeah, I've just finished up plotting the large scale pillars for book number two in that series. So that's what we are working on at the moment.

Autumn J Birt:

Yes. And besides that, I have been releasing a urban fantasy series that I wrote most through 2020. So that is what I wrote by myself. It's called the tainted face. So it's a fake urban fantasy, post apocalyptic sort of climate change. It's all rolled in there all the problems of today's world. And so I just released book number two, three is coming out at the end of April, and the final book in the series will come out at the end of June.

Emma Dhesi:

Wow. So four in the series, you had a busy 2020?

Autumn J Birt:

Yes, I did. I didn't release any books from June 2019. Except for we did nonfiction, all the stuff we were doing together. So I just kind of hunkered down in 2020. Because what else are you gonna do I just wrote and worked on in writing fantasy.

Emma Dhesi:

Oh, fantastic. You guys have got such a wonderful world, we didn't even really delve into your nonfiction. And which we could have done as well, because you've got so much to clear. And I've been over on there. And I write the writing fantasy website. And I've seen that you know, your courses are there, as well as the books that you've got. So I'll definitely make sure people can find that easily. But and that's that's kind of come to the end already. I can't believe it. But before we finish up, can you let people know where they can find out about you both on online?

Jesper Schmidt:

Yeah, so the easiest thing of course, since this is a podcast, and I assume less listeners, then listen to podcasts. So the easiest thing to do is of course, to go to the I am writing fantasy podcast. Just search for I am writing fantasy in your podcast app, and you'll find this any way you listen. Other than that, then of course we have I am writing fantasy, like you mentioned .com. That's that hosts all our author related stuff, meaning nonfiction books for authors, courses for authors, all that stuff is there. And then am reading fantasy.com that helps the fiction side.

Emma Dhesi:

I see. Okay, lovely. Well, again, I'll make sure that those are all up. Well isten. Jesper, Autumn Thank you so much for joining me tod y. It's great that you could bot be here. Yes. Thank you. Wel , thank you so much for joi ing me today. I hope you fin that helpful and ins irational. Now, don't forget to ome on over to facebook and joi my group, turning readers int writers. It is especially for you if you are a beginner wri er who is looking to write the r first novel. If you join the group, you will also find a fre cheat sheet there called thr e secret hacks to write with con istency. So go to emmadhes .com/turning readers into writ rs. Hit join. Can't wait to see you in there. All right. Thank ou. Bye bye.