Exclusive Interview w/ Download Youth Ministry's Doug Fields at DYM100!

Have you ever questioned what it takes to build a supportive team in youth ministry, one that fortifies your strengths and cushions your weaknesses? Our guest, Doug Fields (Pastor at Mariner's Church, Co-Founder & President of Download Youth Ministry, Speaker, Author), a superhero in youth ministry, is here to do just that. He opens up about his youth ministry journey, divulging the secrets of his longevity and some of his best decisions made along the way.

Embracing the spotlight as a leader is often a challenging trajectory, especially when it's hard to let go of control.  In this episode, Doug candidly shares his personal journey of becoming a 'spotlight leader', highlighting the challenges it entailed and the growth that followed. Together we explore the necessity of giving away leadership and the potential opportunities and benefits that can arise from this.  Sit back and enjoy this fun mix of laughter, insight, and powerful lessons.

We want to thank Doug Fields, Josh Griffin and the entire DYM staff for allowing us the opportunity to record this rare podcast, but also for your gracious hospitality and opportunities to speak at DYM100!  Thank you from the bottom of our hearts!

Be sure to check out: Download Youth Ministry & Coleader!!

Book Mentioned in this Episode:
Purpose Driven Youth Ministry By Doug Fields: https://amzn.to/3NMZAuW

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You may also enjoy these episodes:

(#021) Taking Volunteer Training to the Next Level - Interview w/ Josh Griffin - DYM

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

The students will leave and what keeps you anchored is that team, that hopefully they stick around for years and years and years. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 0:07

I began to develop a team and they just became my friends. So even a bad night at youth group ends with me being with my friends. I don't have to be great at everything, but I need to surround myself with people who make my weaknesses seem irrelevant. When I first started, I had to do everything, but now I've started like, okay, I'm not very good at this, I'm not very good at that, and I find other people to do it. The longer you're in a place, the more you get to do what you're really good at.

Speaker 1: 0:33

Hey everyone, welcome to the Ministry Coach podcast. We have a super special episode for you. This week I got the rare opportunity to interview one of my long time youth ministry heroes, who kept me in the game when I felt like throwing in the towel Mr Doug Fields, the legend himself. When I was about 19 and a youth pastor and didn't know what in the world I was doing, I remember reading Purpose Driven Youth Ministry by Doug Fields and just my mind was blown and I still have so many of those practices he talked about in his book. I'm still doing those today, and so I really hope you guys enjoy this interview that we got to do at the DYM 100 conference at Mariners Church in Orange County, california, and we talked all about what has kept Doug in youth ministry for 40 years, his secrets of longevity and the best decisions he's ever made in youth ministry.

Speaker 1: 1:44

Welcome to the Ministry Coach podcast, where we bring you weekly tips and tactics to help you fast track the growth and health of your youth ministry. And if you're wondering where Jeff is, he's here. You just can't see him. And today we have a special guest that I'm so excited about. Doug Fields To me needs no introduction, because if you would have told me in my first I don't know five years of youth ministry that someday I'd be sitting next to Doug and getting to interview you, I think I would have peed my pants.

Speaker 1: 2:14

I would have been so excited and today we're at the DYM 100 conference in Orange County and we get a few short minutes with Doug to talk about. I mean, it's hard to even Whatever you want Quants a fine.

Speaker 2: 2:28

Whatever you want, let's talk about it. You tell me.

Speaker 1: 2:31

Okay, well, first we'll start with. We have a small audience here and they wanted to know, doug, what's in the cup.

Speaker 2: 2:39

Well, this cup right now is water, water. What is usually in the cup Diacoke is usually in the cup.

Speaker 1: 2:46

That was my guess.

Speaker 2: 2:46

Yeah, right after this you're going to go teach a workshop which thank you for doing that and I'm going to go to Del Taco and I'm going to have a Diet Coke and I'm going to have my lunch there and then I have to prep for tomorrow's part of the conference.

Speaker 1: 3:01

So is Del Taco your go-to, it's my go-to. Here's the deal.

Speaker 2: 3:04

When I was for those that don't know when I was a pastor at Salabac Church, which has, like at the time, maybe 20 to 30,000 people, I was on the preaching team and so I mean I spoke sometimes more than Rick Warren spoke, because he wrote a book and he was traveling along, so I'd speak 20 times a year and In my community 30,000 people then everybody knew me, so I had to find places to hide Just 30,000 small.

Speaker 1: 3:31

Yeah, no, I know, it's not 30,000 people. Small community.

Speaker 2: 3:34

It's stupid, it's stupid big, but it just meant that everywhere I went, yeah, I was Interrupted, and or I mean that's the, that's the courseway of saying it, but like when you want to get something done, it feels like an eruption.

Speaker 2: 3:48

Sure, obviously, I was loved, the people, and people have been so gracious. Even I've been gone for a dozen years, I still live in that area and they're still gracious. But I drove through a deltaco one time way more than you want to know, kristen, but I drove through a deltaco is about nine in the morning. I looked inside and there was nobody in there and I thought I'm going in there and it just became a habit, like I could get so much work done uninterrupted and then because nobody goes to deltaco.

Speaker 2: 4:13

Yeah, from like 8 30 1115.

Speaker 1: 4:17

I'm a Taco Bell person myself. Well, that's products.

Speaker 2: 4:20

I can't, I can't do that. Even when I go to regal cinemas now they change from coke to Pepsi. My little bit is, when I see the Pepsi thing, I boo. Yeah, I don't blame you well deserved. Yeah, I'm a coke. Everybody knows coke is better than Pepsi, for sure.

Speaker 1: 4:35

Okay, doug, there's a million things I want to know and ask you, but Since we don't have a ton of time, I would love to know, and I think our listeners would love to know, because you have been in youth ministry for has it been 30, 40 years?

Speaker 1: 4:51

Yeah, 40 years yeah and these, you know, we've heard statistics all the time of you know, the average lifespan of a youth pastor's 18 months or something. I think it's increased. I think those are old statistics, but what would you say has been the thing that has kept you Serving as long as you have, because I'm sure you've had major ups, major downs. Yeah absolutely Seasons where things felt like they were going so well and seasons when you felt like what am I doing?

Speaker 1: 5:21

with my life, you know and so riding the wave, riding the ebbs and flows, what has like been the anchoring sentiment, thought, feeling that has kept you going for as long as you have.

Speaker 2: 5:35

Yeah, I mean, if I could reduce it to something that everybody can relate to, I would say it would be volunteers. Like I love my volunteer team and so when I'm investing in my volunteers I'm just building a sense of community. So before I did that, like my best friends when I was in my early 20s, my best friends were teenagers because I didn't do youth ministry right, you know, I wasn't developing a team. But as I got a little older and wiser, I began to develop a team and they just became my friends.

Speaker 2: 6:02

So even a bad night, a youth group, I was around my volunteers and my friends and so even the journeys that I've been on, you know, 11 years at one church, 19 years in another church, 10 years at another or back to the original church. It's always been the team that I've been around so I'm a team, team person. So even a bad night, bad Wednesday night, ends with me being with my friends.

Speaker 2: 6:25

Yeah, I agree that's the thing that has kept me like now. Obviously, I have an amazing wife and family and you know I've was taught as a teenager the habits of spiritual discipline, so I've had a rooted faith for during those years. Today we talked a lot about you're not. Who you are is not based on what you do, but on what God who God says you are, and I was taught that at an early age.

Speaker 2: 6:53

So, the success and the failure really didn't matter that much to me. I mean, I always knew that I was. Youth ministry was my calling. Even when I proposed to my wife I asked her dad for his blessing and he said what are you gonna do after your youth pastor? And I said I hadn't even thought of it. I'm like I'm probably gonna help youth pastors. So I've always had kind of a heart and a passion for teenagers in the church and you know it's been volunteers. I mean volunteers have been the lifeline to keep me in the game, especially when I'm discouraged.

Speaker 1: 7:26

And I feel like I'm sure you agree like as a young youth pastor, you focus so much on students and then you realize at one point students leave, you know, and if you're lucky, they come back and they become those leaders that you treasure so much, which that's the reward of longevity as students graduate and then students come back and they're your leaders and it's awesome.

Speaker 1: 7:47

But I agree, the students will leave and what keeps you anchored is that team that hopefully they stick around for years and years and years. And so what do you think like? Sounds like that was like a light bulb moment for you when you kind of transition to leadership, leadership from students to building a team and that built longevity. What would you say was and maybe that was the same answer but what would you say is a lesson that you kind of had to learn the hard way in youth ministry.

Speaker 2: 8:20

I think it was like I can't do it all myself.

Speaker 1: 8:23

And.

Speaker 2: 8:24

I feel like there was a time in my early 20s I visited another church and I was so discouraged because they were so good and so polished and they're like equipment room was bigger than my youth room like of all their props they had and stuff and I was really discouraged in and I just realized that if I'm gonna be the center of our youth ministry, it's always gonna be limited to a small room.

Speaker 2: 8:49

But that was kind of the aha moment. Even if I would go back and say, what would I tell Doug Fields at 18 when he started as an intern? It would be like develop leaders, develop leaders. So it took me I don't know how long maybe through college and seminary, maybe seven years to really figure out like oh, youth ministry is about teamwork. So yeah, and now I've already forgot your question.

Speaker 2: 9:13

I told you I'm on day quote right so it sounds like you need to be also, I know we just had a literary treat. And day quote is Jack Daniels with a little bit of food coloring is. I think that's all it is. So now, I forgot the question.

Speaker 1: 9:27

Well, I think you kind of answered it. What did you have to learn? The hard way?

Speaker 2: 9:30

That was the hard way is that I think the principle that came out is I don't have to be great at everything, but I need to surround myself with people who make my weaknesses seem irrelevant. And so you know, really longevity is it's not for me. I do more now that I'm good at than when I first started. I had to do everything, but now I've started like, okay, I'm not very good at this, I'm not very good at that, and I find other people to do it. So the longer you're in one place and you're a champion, you're like heroic that you've been in 20 plus years in one place. The longer you're in a place, the more you get to do what you're really good at.

Speaker 1: 10:10

Totally. Yeah, I think that I like how you said you used to do everything, and I think that's the hard thing of a newer youth pastor is they don't have the resources. But that motivation to stay in longer, it's like people eventually come and opportunities eventually come. I mean, I used to be on the stage like saying this and then I run back and push play on this video, and now I'm running over here and I'm roughing this game and going all over the place, but when you stay long enough, your team starts to build and then the right people kind of come to the table. Was it hard for you to cause? I feel like sometimes people don't give away leadership cause they don't have anyone to give it to Other times people don't give away leadership Cause they don't want to.

Speaker 2: 11:00

They hold it like this. They feel like they need to be that person. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:03

And it's very tied to their ego and it's very tied to their sense of purpose. Was it difficult for you to like hold your ministry with an open hand? Or was it just in the beginning like I don't have anyone, I have no one to give it to, or did you have to kind of put some of yourself aside to platform others?

Speaker 2: 11:24

Yes, that's exactly what I had to do, and because I liked doing all the stuff I mean everything you described, from roughing the game to running the game to speaking to sound I mean I liked all of that stuff. I mean that was all fun and when you're starting doing it yourself, you become good at all of those things. So even when you allow somebody to do announcements and back in your mind you're like you're not very good at this, like I mean one students don't like announcements anyway but I'm way better at announcements.

Speaker 2: 11:51

So you really have to. You know, I've developed a term that I call spotlight leader. Like, I want to be a spotlight leader and that's putting the spotlight on other people, meaning that you know I need to, I need to decrease so others can increase, which obviously has biblical roots in that. But in ministry we don't have to work at getting older. You know, we're really good at getting older, I mean, it's just, it's the reality it's right, right.

Speaker 2: 12:15

What we do need to do is work at getting younger, and so we need to empower other people and put the spotlight on other people so that other people can learn to you know, lead and teach and use an expression of their gifts. And when you become what I call a spotlight leader, you're actually a really fun leader to work for, because people want to be around you, because you champion other people. But you've got to deal with where you were going with. It is. You got to deal with your own ego and realize that some people are going to be better. So Josh Griffin, who's our mutual friend, who I do download Youth Ministry with, is a junior high pastor here is that when he first came out from Michigan, I started using him in different things and like maybe the third time I ever put him on stage, I went oh, he's better than me.

Speaker 2: 12:57

Like he's way better than me, or has the potential to be better than me. He still did weird things and talked weird and stuff, but, you know, with some minor adjustments, I'm like, oh, and then now I don't even, I don't even go in that direction. Oh, you want that? Josh is so much better at that than I am, and you begin once. That mentality has to shift, though, like you got to at some point go like okay, I'm going to be about developing other people, which doesn't mean you don't get to express your giftedness, you know. So what it means is I get to express my giftedness, but instead of teaching every week, maybe I'm teaching once every three weeks or once every four weeks which actually makes me a better teacher.

Speaker 2: 13:39

It gives our students more of a variety of the body of Christ that they're listening to. But it does take a heart and a mind shift to say you know, I don't have to be all things to all people.

Speaker 1: 13:49

Right, and did you feel like there was a pain point for you in that? To where you like, I just can't do it anymore or was it more gradual?

Speaker 2: 13:58

I think the pain point, if I'm being honest, is you just die a little death each time, like, oh, I used to love doing that or I you know, and you kind of miss it a little bit. But you know that pain goes away. But that's where for me, it was like, oh, I wish I was speaking, like when I even go to the main service I'm on the preaching team. I don't ever want to be a senior pastor, if never want to be a senior pastor, but Christmas and Easter I sit there with why? Cause they're bigger crowds.

Speaker 2: 14:25

You know if anybody likes crowds, it's speakers right, and so I'm like those are the times where I sit there and I'm like, oh, I wish I was a senior pastor, but it only happens twice a year.

Speaker 1: 14:33

I kind of love what you said there because I think so many like you know how you're Father-in-law had said what are you?

Speaker 1: 14:41

gonna do after you become a youth pastor. Well, my dad used to always say that to me, you know, like when I was graduating from college like when are you gonna stop? Like I think some people see it as like teaching Sunday school, like when are you gonna get a real job? What are you gonna step into your potential? Why did you get an education if you're not gonna do any? You know, and To hear you say that you've been in youth ministry for as long as you have and you had no desire to be a senior pastor, I think that's like Incredibly valuable for a young youth pastor to hear, because I think there's this thing when I've heard people say like, oh my gosh, you're in your 30s, what are you still doing in youth ministry? Oh my gosh, you're in your 40s, oh my gosh, you're in your. And people kind of there's like this judgment almost yeah, maybe maybe you couldn't make it as a real Pastor right and that's why you stayed in youth ministry.

Speaker 1: 15:31

Heaven forbid there could be. That's just the calling on your life, that's the desire of your heart. This is where I want to be. Not that I couldn't. I mean, you could have been a senior pastor if you had wanted to.

Speaker 2: 15:40

I'd have been a bad one. Bad, bad, bad, bad for me, bad for the church, bad for my family.

Speaker 2: 15:46

No, I just never wanted that and I think, you know, I was at Salabak for almost 20 years and in everybody's mind I was the next Senior pastor, but it was never in my mind. Wow, never in my mind. And so, and I don't think that's anything other than just, you know, trying listening to who God called me to be, I just didn't have, like I said, desired twice a year, christmas in Easter. I was like I wish I could. I wish I could be preaching right now, but it was mostly because I have one. I have a heart for unbelievers, and that's when they come yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:18

Christmas in in Easter, and you know, the only person that likes a crowd is a speaker. Yeah yeah, everybody else doesn't like a crowd, but a speaker likes a crowd, and so yes, they always say people like it small, leaders like it big.

Speaker 1: 16:31

Yeah, you know, they want to see the crowds and the people. But the people actually attending our youth groups, our churches, are small groups. They want it to feel small, they want to feel known.

Speaker 1: 16:40

Yeah, you know yeah, so that makes a ton of sense and I just think that's a huge encouragement piece, though, that that can be a desire, like I'm in it, like, and that's how I see myself. I told our senior pastor, chris Brown, I'm like I Assume I'm gonna retire and die in my office chair, you know, like this is where I'm going to be. Yeah, and I think Young youth pastors need to hear that this can be absolutely where you absolutely.

Speaker 2: 17:08

but but to your point, it's not, it's not valued. Yeah, you know in the church culture. So you have to find your value somewhere else outside of that. So, you know, even at some of the churches that I've worked at that had a lot of resources you know I was I was paid as the youth pastor you know I wasn't. There was people younger than me that are in different positions that were paid more because they had a Non-youth position.

Speaker 1: 17:32

Yeah, isn't that funny yeah just the way that it's viewed or valued, you know, in different churches and organizations.

Speaker 2: 17:38

Yeah, and so, as a leader, if you're finding your value in what you do, you know and what you're, what you know, how you're perceived or who you're trying to impress, you're gonna be discouraged. Yeah but if you find your value in what you feel called to do, then you know, doesn't matter.

Speaker 1: 17:54

I remember talking to a youth pastor who was a friend and he said he wanted to transition to being a senior pastor because he didn't care what 12 year olds thought about him anymore. And I just thought that is such an interesting perspective, that Like I'm growing out of their opinion and I don't go to work every day, like I hope the 12 year olds think I'm cool, like, but it is that transition to like, but this is ministry and our leaders and our teams and the longevity there. But if all you're focused on is down here, I think you could lose your motivation.

Speaker 1: 18:27

Yeah, right, right right, okay, well, I just got our time signal.

Speaker 2: 18:35

We kind of put you in a bad spot. So just so you know, we told I told Christian we'd have an hour, and then everything started running late and now she has to teach in just a little bit and so, but I feel like we really made the most of our. This is me not wanting to be here, there, or this is me, this is not me not wanting to be here, I'm happy. I would talk forever.

Speaker 1: 18:56

Well, can I ask you one question as we exit? Yeah, I feel like I always learn a lot about people when I ask them Okay, what is the best decision you ever made in youth ministry?

Speaker 2: 19:06

in youth ministry I Think one of the best decisions I thought. Before you said youth ministry, I was gonna say getting married to Kathy you know that's the best decision.

Speaker 2: 19:15

But then it triggered a thought. I had a decision, kathy, I used to say to her you know, oh, if you, if you stop volunteering, you know I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave youth ministry. And I was trying to do it as a value statement to her, like you're so fun to do ministry with and I girls love you and you're amazing and I like your support there. And I was trying to really value her. So, like, when you quit, I quit. Well, in the back of her mind she's like I'm not gonna be the one that takes down Doug field, you know. And then it hit me is that I?

Speaker 2: 19:51

I think I made a decision. I'm like, wait, I want my wife's enjoyment Rather than my wife's ministry here. So I I Was trying to hang on to her being in in ministry together and she was, you know, we had kids and they were little and she was trying to find her spot and she had her own youth ministry with her own kids and and I made a decision that I was like I just need to release that and not put that, that pressure on her.

Speaker 2: 20:18

Yeah and then, you know, she had a season like a four or five years off and then came back and she was a better youth worker than I ever was really like back in the day. I don't know if you remember this, but we used to have phones hanging on our wall Chords, and the whole with an answering machine.

Speaker 1: 20:33

Yes, yes, yes, well, even before answering machines.

Speaker 2: 20:35

That was revolutionary. But you know kids used to call the house and they'd be like crying. You know, don't just Kathy there. I'm like Well, is this Julie, are you okay? Is Kathy there?

Speaker 2: 20:49

And I'd be like yeah, and then talk to Kathy and you know Kathy's like ministering to this girl and I'm pacing in the kitchen, going like I'm the youth pastor and like she should want to talk to me, you know. And then the kids that called the one to talk to me were like, uh, what time is Friday night and how much money are we supposed to bring?

Speaker 1: 21:06

I can do ministry too, that's right. I can care for you too, that's exactly right.

Speaker 2: 21:11

So I that was a weird answer, but when you say it was, the best decision, my mind went to my wife, because we've been married almost 40 years and she's amazing. I love that and she's been a such a significant part of our ministry. But I had to kind of release that idea of us being a one-two combo forever, I know, and and that was good. It was good for good for her and that's what ultimately is. I want her empowerment, not not my Selfishness, so yeah it's funny.

Speaker 1: 21:38

When I asked that question to our senior pastor, chris, he said the same thing.

Speaker 2: 21:43

Oh really.

Speaker 1: 21:43

I said well, it was the best decision you made in youth ministry. He said we're marrying my wife, amy, because she was so supportive of his ministry. He goes the youth ministry. Life isn't for everybody. You know kids calling your house, kids coming over, kids crashing on the couch. You know being called out and sometimes the schedule so unpredictable, so somebody that can be in there with you. But then, like I can relate with that, jeff used to be one of my volunteers and that was like the coolest time in ministry and then we had kids and he can't.

Speaker 2: 22:14

Yep, it's just yeah, yeah, different now.

Speaker 1: 22:17

He doesn't come to youth group anymore and I miss that so much, because they loved him absolutely you know, and then you see that part of your spouse.

Speaker 1: 22:23

You're like we're doing this together, like there's something so cool about getting to do ministry with your spouse. But at the same time the church hires us, not our spouses, right, and so there's no requirement on them. I would never want a young youth pastor to think, oh my, you, my spouse, has to do ministry with me, but it is a really cool time in your marriage or your dating relationship.

Speaker 2: 22:44

Yeah, absolutely. Well, that'd be a fun thing to talk about sometime. Yeah, I don't really do podcasts.

Speaker 1: 22:49

You don't, you're not doing this right now.

Speaker 2: 22:51

You're not even here, we're just talking. Youth ministry.

Speaker 1: 22:55

This is AI Doug, but he's really. That's right, that's right, that's right Now.

Speaker 2: 22:59

That's what I should do is I should just create an AI and do podcasts for me. No, what a treat, what a treat and I'm a big fan of yours and your ministry and anybody that's stayed at the church I'm serious 20 years or more is heroic. So there's very few people in the youth ministry space that I there are heroes and if you've been there one more than 20 years.

Speaker 1: 23:23

you're in that spot so thank you for what you're doing, I guess. Right, it's been fun. Well, thanks, doug. Thank you guys so much for watching and listening and we'll see you next time. And the live audience went crazy. I know I was like I gotta get a quick little video.

Speaker 2: 23:43

Now let's get one this way. There it is everybody very fun.