Dealing With Public Display of Affection in Youth Ministry - PDA Problems

Are you looking to grow the size and health of your youth ministry? Check out
GrowYourYouthMinistry.com ***** Have you ever found yourself in the middle of a midweek youth group program, trying to focus on the announcements or message, only to be sidetracked by a pair of teenagers cuddling in the corner? It’s a situation many church leaders know all too well, and it's the heart of our latest episode where we grapple with the challenge of public displays of affection (PDA) in youth ministry.  In this episode, we navigate the complex dance of spirituality and romance in adolescence by setting a balance of policy & situational wisdom.  As youth pastors, we want to come along side our student's growth journey and aid their developmental stages while prioritizing their faith.  Listen in as we tackle the awkward but necessary conversations about PDA, striving to guide our youth with patience and understanding, all without compromising the space that student ministry is meant to be.

=======

We love hearing from you all and we do our best to provide powerful and insightful youth ministry content on a weekly basis to be that coach and mentor you may not have, but desperately need.
If you have an episode idea, please E-Mail us at MinistryCoachPodcast@gmail.com!

If you have it on your heart to support this ministry, please consider going to our Patreon page at: www.patreon.com/ministrycoach

=======

You may also enjoy these episodes:

(#012) Creating a Safe Ministry - 3 Areas to Focus On!

=======

🔄 CONNECT WITH US ON SOCIAL MEDIA 📱:
Ministry Coach Podcast:
Website: http://www.kristenlascola.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MinistryCoach/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ministrycoachpodcast/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ministrycoachpodcast
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ministrycoachpodcast

Kristen Lascola:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/klascola/

Jeffrey Lascola:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grandmasterbengal/

=======

Audio Equipment:

Microphones
https://amzn.to/3eWUWrk

Digital Recorder
https://amzn.to/3eXmvkj


*This episode is not sponsored. Some of the links are affiliate links which simply means, if you buy something, we will receive a small commission (at no additional cost to you) Thank you!*

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

It's a real slippery slope, you know. Number one at church, it's really not the place, it's actually a distraction. Now people are focused on you guys instead of what we're doing. The way we handle and walk alongside people in their struggle is a big deal and it's formative, so we need to be merciful, gentle, careful. They're learning. They're learning their teenagers. They're learning how to be a Christian teenager with feelings and hormones and crushes and boyfriend. I mean, it's complicated. This is the first time for a lot of them that they're going through this, so we can't expect them to have it down. Today we're talking all about tips to help you navigate the challenges of PDA and your youth group upbeat music playing Kristen Lascola. And today we're talking about an awkward topic that you may or may not have run into in your childhood that is with high schoolers, maybe deal with it a whole lot more college age students.

Speaker 1: 2:18

I don't even know they're adults, I don't know what they're doing these days. So what do we do when we're confronted with this and how can we deal with it in a healthy way? And that's what we're talking about today. So the things I'm gonna talk about today are part policy and part wisdom. Policy only goes so far. Here's what I mean by that. You can have a policy and it usually sounds something like this at church, like at camp, mostly It'll be like no girls and boy cabins, no boys and girls cabins. That's a very standard camp rule and it's a very good one. That's a policy.

Speaker 1: 2:58

Where wisdom comes in is there might be some things that didn't necessarily make your list. You don't have a specific written rule against them, but you just don't feel right about it. You know, maybe a couple students are just a little too close and it's just sort of putting on a weird vibe and they're getting really whispery and their arms and they're looking around Like you know, if you are sensing and a lot of youth pastors ask this question, I think because they have been in that situation of like this doesn't technically fit one of my rules, but I don't like it and that's enough. Like that should be enough to intervene If you just don't like what's happening, if you don't like the vibe that it's putting out. We don't have to allow like. This is not a place where it's like well, we have to allow a little bit.

Speaker 2: 3:56

A little bit of PDA, you know we don't, so if Church. Pda.

Speaker 1: 4:00

Just.

Speaker 2: 4:01

Church PDA.

Speaker 1: 4:02

So here's some questions to ask yourself as you're navigating your own challenges with PDA, because it really could look different. I mean, I'm not gonna describe every single nuance of what it could be, but what you can do is filter through these questions and know when you might need to take some action. So number one does this make me feel uncomfortable?

Speaker 2: 4:27

Me as the youth pastor.

Speaker 1: 4:28

Yeah, if you're looking at it like we were saying before. Something just doesn't sit right with you. Okay, listen to that. You're the adult, you're the leader, you're the pastor. If something makes you uncomfortable, chances are it's making other people feel uncomfortable too, Number two question to ask yourself is this a distraction from why we're here?

Speaker 1: 4:51

So is it one of those things that other people are now looking and it's become a unintended focal point and everyone's kind of giggling about it and it's this thing now Black and white? Number three is it inappropriate? If it's inappropriate, okay, time to say something. And then another question that I ask myself sometimes is Is this a normal part of growing up? And normal is very subjective, but what I mean by that is like, yeah, it's normal to want to do a whole lot of things. Right, we can't let that be our determinant factor. But there is a level of like. I'm not going to avoid people having crushes on each other Like that's normal. It's normal for kids to have crushes on each other. It's normal for some of them to even start dating, to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend. Like, not every like. Some pastors are uncomfortable even with kids liking each other and they're like hey, you know that's a big distraction of why we're here and we need to not Don't like anybody.

Speaker 1: 5:59

I've heard that happen, like I've been on a trip with pastors like that, and so I just think, hey, we aren't going to just say, hey, anything goes, because it's a normal part of growing up. But what I am saying is you have to understand this as a part of someone's development is I start to notice girls and boys, girls start to notice boys, and you know it's part of that. So we can't just be offended and like, no, we don't talk about that. Like, okay, no, there can be space to talk about boys, there can be a space to talk about girls, there can be a space to have a crush and all of that. And it's our job to kind of navigate them through that. Like it's okay, it's part of growing up. They don't have to be embarrassed or feel ashamed that they even have those feelings.

Speaker 1: 6:47

But when it starts to get like okay, we've got to intervene here is when two kids are dating or interested in each other and it is becoming too much. So here's where I would love for every youth pastor to start is having setting kids up to succeed in this area. Now, if you work with junior hires, maybe I'm naive. I, in 20 years of junior high ministry, have dealt with PDA maybe three times, like it was our little imitation in the beginning. They're like, very like robotic, and they're holding each other's hand and nobody will move a muscle because they're like so nervous Looks painful.

Speaker 1: 7:31

Yeah, they're like just they are so nervous that you almost wanna be like hey, you're all right, just relax, you're off the hook.

Speaker 2: 7:40

You guys don't have to do this. I don't know who put you up to it. You can separate.

Speaker 1: 7:45

Some kids are kind of more comfortable with it and I think in high school it's a little more comfortable. Here's what I mean by setting them up for success. What I've noticed is kids never want to be engaged in PDA when they're surrounded by adults, so they wanna sneak off somewhere, they wanna be alone, they wanna like find the little corner and whatever. So let's make that really difficult for them. Have an adult maybe not one of your small group leaders, because your small group leaders should be participating but I have a security guard or two or three pacing the hallways During youth group the entire time. They're always moving and they're always somewhere in the parking lot. Some are in the halls and I keep every door locked where a student should not be, because that did happen to me. One time a boy and a girl snuck off. It was like at an overnight event and they snuck off into a bathroom and it was like gosh, like that was a hard one to avoid, because I mean, we're sleeping and boys and girls were in separate areas.

Speaker 2: 8:55

But it was, a shared bathroom was not a yeah, one gender or the other, it was just a whatever.

Speaker 1: 9:00

Yes, we only had one bathroom at our old campus and they had Planned earlier in the night.

Speaker 2: 9:07

That sounds weird to say a shared bathroom. It was a bathroom with one like a toilet.

Speaker 1: 9:11

Yeah, like a one-person bathroom, and they had made plans earlier in the night to meet up later that night, you know, and it's like that's a hard thing to super. It's like, nope, we're gonna be on bathroom duty till you know 8 am. Like that's not reasonable. Sometimes, if kids are gonna find a way, they're gonna find a way, but we want to make it as difficult for them as possible. So I leave, and this is different now because it's a different bathroom. We have a guys bathroom, a girls bathroom, but I do leave those doors propped open, so during youth group, not a church on the weekends, because it's all kinds of people using them. But there's Privacy, you know, but it's just like at the mall or at Disneyland or whatever.

Speaker 2: 9:55

There's no stalls but you can't see. Yeah, there's no doors on those.

Speaker 1: 9:58

You know, even at targets and targets there's no doors on them. So I think that just kind of Takes the mister like, ooh, like this could be a and for all kinds of bad behavior, you know.

Speaker 2: 10:10

Yeah, like you're mentioning the security guards, this obviously is way more than just oh yeah, we don't have like the PDA police. This is just one but if you need that, that's something to consider and it's great, though, because the bathroom doors remain open.

Speaker 1: 10:26

Security walking the halls all extra doors are locked, so there's only really one place you can be, and that's the auditorium. With 25 adults and 150 kids, and it's really. There is no privacy. Yeah so, number one set them up for success. Make sure your ratios of adults to kids is really good. Make sure there's no places they can sneak off to. And the point is we're trying to make it really difficult for secrecy to happen again. I've had it happen under my watch. If they're determined, sometimes they can find a way.

Speaker 1: 11:03

Yeah, but we're not gonna make it easy for them. I would say like, in all honesty, the most I've ever tolerated in my presence is Handholding. So you Again, policy and then wisdom. So if the hand holding turns into like there's just something about you guys, that's getting weird, I will come up to them and I'll just sort of put my hand on their shoulder and be like, hey guys, do you mind if we leave a little more room here between you guys? And they'll be like oh yeah, sure, okay.

Speaker 2: 11:37

Just acknowledging it sometimes will stop Like.

Speaker 1: 11:41

I've never had a kid fight me on that. To say no, you can't like, they are already like I'm nervous, I'm uncomfortable.

Speaker 2: 11:50

You probably saved them in that moment, really.

Speaker 1: 11:52

Yes. So like I've had kids try to lay next to each other, like during a movie night or something oh no, I am all over that. Like sit up, move, you're too close. No, sharing a blanket. You know that's another thing that they might try to do at camp or a trip. Or, you know, during a movie or worship, like, oh well, we're all out here and it's cold. Nope, no blanket sharing. No laying down. I've never had a kid like kiss in front of me, you know. I know they have snuck off before and done it at camp or something like that. But again, that is so few and far between because when you think of the hundreds of kids we've had come through our ministry probably thousands at this point we've made it so difficult for them. It really doesn't happen very often if they like.

Speaker 1: 12:39

Take their one little opportunity and you're like okay, you know, but the most I've tolerated is hand holding, no lap sitting. So a lot of youth pastors are like, okay, I would probably be the same way. It makes me uncomfortable. So then what do I do? So you could start where I started of, you know, looking at them and saying hey, guys.

Speaker 1: 13:02

Number one ew, number two ick, number three barf. No, but just kind of trying to overly embarrass them, because I think they're already embarrassed, they're being approached, but just to put a hand on their shoulder and say, hey, you know, I think I would be more comfortable, and everyone else would be more comfortable, if we left a little more room here. If that's too many words, a simple hey guys, let's leave a little bit more room here, Okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 13:31

Just a quick spray with a cold hose. Shhh, break it up, you two.

Speaker 1: 13:36

And then if you feel like it's a recurring, like oh my gosh, every week this couple, you know, if it's getting excessive and becoming like a theme, you might wanna just pull them aside and say like hey, could I talk to you guys?

Speaker 2: 13:53

Like hey.

Speaker 1: 13:55

I know you like each other. That's okay, like we're allowed to like people. You don't have to feel ashamed. Perfectly normal to have feelings for someone and have a crush on someone. However, we gotta be really careful of how much physical affection we're showing. It's a real slippery slope. You know, number one, at church it's really not the place. It's actually a distraction. Now people are focused on you guys instead of what we're doing. You know you could point to other couples, maybe that help out in your ministry and say like hey, like Bob and Lisa, they're married, they're a great couple, they like each other.

Speaker 2: 14:38

They haven't kissed in years, sleeping in separate beds. Come on, you guys, there's two people you can look up to. I think they're really mad at each other tonight, so how?

Speaker 1: 14:55

But you could point to a couple and say like hey, like it's one thing to be affectionate and you can sit next to each other and give each other attention. But you know, are Bob and Lisa making anyone uncomfortable? No, like they don't need to be all over each other all the time to prove anything, it's a confidence in your relationship.

Speaker 2: 15:13

If you feel the need to be pawing each other constantly. It's like you must not be that comfortable with that person.

Speaker 1: 15:20

You could say that in a gentle way of like, they love each other, but we're not distracted by it. It's like well, there's Bob and Lisa again. So if you guys could help me out and sit next to each other, enjoy youth group together Like I'm, I don't mind that you guys are a couple, but I need you to. You don't have anything to prove right now. And then, if you have suspicion that something might be going on behind closed doors, tread very carefully of how you're gonna have that conversation. That's not what we're talking about today. We're talking about PDA.

Speaker 1: 15:56

That means public you know, displays of affection at your youth group, so that would be like talking about their purity. You might want to navigate that differently. You know, find some people to bring into that conversation with you. You know, maybe if you have a, if you're a guy youth pastor, you know, maybe you want to bring in a girl and vice versa for blah, blah, blah. But all that to say, it's perfectly okay to have that conversation if you felt, like the initial, like hey guys, could you leave a little more space? If that's simple. Hi, I see you bring attention to it do you?

Speaker 1: 16:34

work, feel free to have a conversation, and of that I mean, I can't imagine a scenario where that still wouldn't work.

Speaker 1: 16:44

And they're like no, we insist, Like that would be above my pay grade because, I've never had to deal with that, but hopefully this helps a little bit for you to get a handle and maybe gain a little confidence, because I will admit it's an awkward thing to address. It's awkward to approach the couple. Even for me and I've been doing Youth Ministry a long time I don't like calling kids out on it, but I don't like it in my youth group. It's just an ick. That's awkward and but I don't want other kids to go home and tell their mom or dad like, yeah, youth group was cool, but this couple was like all cuddly in the corner, Like I don't know, Like I'm more willing to address what would make someone uncomfortable than the couple being uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 17:37

But just be gentle with them because the way you reprimand them on this will probably stick with them for their entire life of how the church dealt with their indiscretion. Like again, we don't just say, oh well, do whatever you want, but the way we handle and walk alongside people in their struggle is a big deal.

Speaker 1: 18:02

And it's formative. So we need to be merciful, gentle, careful with the words we choose and the way we speak and the kindness we show and the patience we show and the understanding. We don't want to come across overly like I disapprove of you. You know, they're learning, they're learning their teenagers. They're learning how to be a Christian teenager with feelings and hormones and crushes and boyfriend. I mean, it's complicated. This is the first time for a lot of them that they're going through this, so we can't expect them to have it down. They need us to walk alongside them and say hey, I see you, it's okay to like someone. Let me help you do this. Well, so that is the PDA talk. I hope it was helpful.

Speaker 2: 18:52

So, like, let's look at this kind of in a larger scheme, Like if you have a sixth grade through 12th grade because I know a lot of youth pastors have that Do you think this is? Are you ever preemptive? Like we have a set of rules, and at what point do you even announce those rules? And it's like is that a camp thing? Is that a? Like a new class comes in, so we do the? You know, here are all the rules.

Speaker 1: 19:16

I don't really like how official do you ever want to make it? I thought about that when I was prepping this content.

Speaker 2: 19:21

Or is it like as it comes up? Do you do it? Do you have your students sign the handbook of I will not?

Speaker 1: 19:28

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know I feel like that's so like private school vibes. You know I do it at camp, like say, like hey, there's a girl sleeping area, cause I think camp adds a layer of complexity. There's sleeping, there's changing, there's. You know, it's just like very appropriate at camp to set some boundaries of like hey, this is the girl sleeping area.

Speaker 1: 19:55

No boy should be here. This is the boy sleeping here. No girl should be there. Like do not mix those areas and if I see it like, you're gonna have a consequence. Like that is gonna be a hard line for me At a regular youth group. I just feel like acknowledging it and making it a thing makes it more of a thing. Like, all right, when you step through these doors you will no longer like hold a hand, kiss, I mean. What do you say? You're allowed to hold a hand but you can't kiss.

Speaker 2: 20:26

That's why I like and the more specific you are, the more loopholes they try to figure out Exactly and the weirder it gets Like imagine a new sixth grader we're holding ears.

Speaker 1: 20:35

It's just an ear Like is that what people do here? That's weird, so I just like to address it as it comes, and I can have an entire class go through and I never have to talk about it once, so it's not as big of a problem for me that it needs to be like all right, welcome to Junior High. This is the rules, guys.

Speaker 2: 21:00

Posted on the wall over there by the cafe, no making out during worship.

Speaker 1: 21:04

Do I make myself clear? Does that? Mean, we can make out during small group time Or-.

Speaker 2: 21:11

I don't know why they were such a young child saying that it was like three years old Kind of youth group business.

Speaker 1: 21:17

But you're right, junior Highers love to find the exception.

Speaker 2: 21:20

If you did lay out rules, not step one, two, but rule number one, two and three they would.

Speaker 1: 21:27

oh well, you didn't mention this, so does that mean it's okay, you could hold hands like this, not interlocked.

Speaker 2: 21:33

That's too intimate and it would just be a constantly adding to rule book of like okay, you can't interlock fingers, okay, you can't backhand to backhand, no, you can't do that, but that's what I mean.

Speaker 1: 21:45

I was like wisdom is part of this Like you just need to be watching.

Speaker 1: 21:49

And when something happens, you know, and you usually someone else will know too, Because anytime we've had a couple get a little too close, you better believe my leaders are tapping me on the shoulder. What do we do about them? And I always say I see it, I'm watching, I'm ready to make a move, I'm just waiting for the when you know like we're all on edge here and you know I'm like there it is, and then I move in. I'm like, hey, guys, split up, hey, no, laying down, hey, you know cause I see it. And that again goes back to the number one make it very difficult for them. You should have so many adults in that room that it's gonna be a robust kill.

Speaker 2: 22:32

Yeah Well, for those of you that have dealt with this, is there anything that you've done specifically? If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and put it in the comment section below. That it might help out some other youth pastors, just to add to conversation, please do. All right, we're gonna do a question of the day right now and this it's kind of awkward actually considering the topic we just talked about, but it could be awkward, I guess. What is the last Google search you had?

Speaker 1: 22:56

So I want to know if this conversation was happening. So I Googled how to talk to youth about PDA. So PDA apparently stands for like pathological, like it's some disorder. I forget what it all stands for, but it's oh pathological. Oh man, what is it? Basically? They don't like direct orders, like if you tell them do this, don't do that. They like malfunction.

Speaker 2: 23:26

It's like all kids.

Speaker 1: 23:27

So, but now it's labeled so I don't know. So I was like so then I did PDA in youth group because I thought maybe if I put in like the youth group thing, my version of PDA will come up. No, it's not. It's just this thing. It's like a disorder I'd never heard of so.

Speaker 2: 23:46

I've never heard of it. I will say, though, I heard the term PDA long before I was. I became a Christian when I was 18. I heard the term PDA well before I became a Christian, so it's widely accepted as public display of affection. Are you looking at up again right now?

Speaker 1: 24:01

Yeah, but now it's. I just said PDA meaning, and now it says public displays of affection, but before oh that's it the Child Mind Institute. It's called Pathological Demand Avoidance. They avoid demands, so I haven't heard of that.

Speaker 2: 24:22

Yeah, my last Google search was a couple hours ago, because our dog attacked an alligator lizard, which are like larger than regular lizards, and then she started kind of like gagging and like barfing up a little bit and I was like, can dogs get poisoned by alligator lizards? It's totally fine, but that was the last Google search I have. So, if you're brave enough, what was the last Google search that you had on?

Speaker 1: 24:48

your phone or laptop. What do you have to hide?

Speaker 2: 24:49

Yeah, yeah, you PDA pastors.

Speaker 1: 24:53

I don't know, what that means.

Speaker 2: 24:54

Hey, actually I do know what that means.

Speaker 1: 24:56

They avoid demand.

Speaker 2: 24:58

That's right. So we're gonna do a community comment of the day real quick. This comes from our favorite Carl Schmittke, who says I love how you are going deeper and deeper in your content. It is so good for us to evaluate what we do. You do a great job of addressing difficult stuff while keeping it fun.

Speaker 1: 25:14

Thanks, carl, that's a great compliment.

Speaker 2: 25:16

We love Carl. He's a part of our YMGA program. He's an awesome person. You guys should all know.

Speaker 1: 25:22

That's all I have to say he's my best friend. That's it.

Speaker 2: 25:25

That's it, hey. Thank you guys so much for watching and listening and we'll see you next time.

Speaker 1: 25:30

Are you dealing with a lot of PDA or public displays of affection in your youth group? Then stick around, cause today we're talking all about how to navigate it. That's so many birds.

Speaker 2: 25:40

Yeah, brian, I should preface that if I sing Wait, eric Brian.

Speaker 1: 25:45

Not as awkward as Bob and Julie is leaving it separate beds.