Ministry Coach: Youth Ministry Tips & Resources

3 Highly Effective Leadership Styles for Youth Pastors...Which One Are You?

• Kristen Lascola • Episode 230

Share episode

Send us a text

Are you looking to grow the size and health of your youth ministry? Check out
GrowYourYouthMinistry.com *** Youth Pastors: Are you truly leading or just managing?  In this episode, we will be unlocking the secrets to elevating your leadership approach in youth ministry!  We will be discussing the dynamics of little "l" and big "L" leadership. Inspired by Jesus's leadership style, we invite you to explore 3 different types of leadership modeled in scripture.  

As we dissect modern leadership through the teachings of Jesus, we'll challenge you to reflect on your own motivations and methods. Join us for an episode filled with personal insights and scripture that encourage you to embrace and implement effective leadership strategies in your student ministry.

=========

We love hearing from you all and we do our best to provide powerful and insightful youth ministry content on a weekly basis to be that coach and mentor you may not have, but desperately need.
If you have an episode idea, please E-Mail us at MinistryCoachPodcast@gmail.com!

If you have it on your heart to support this ministry, please consider going to our Patreon page at: www.patreon.com/ministrycoach

=========

You may also enjoy these episodes:

(#224) 5 Leadership Habits of Highly Effective & Visionary Youth Pastors

(#189) The 4 Phases of Youth Ministry - Which One Are You In? (DON'T GIVE UP NOW!)


=======

🔄 CONNECT WITH US ON SOCIAL MEDIA 📱:
Ministry Coach Podcast:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MinistryCoach/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ministrycoachpodcast/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ministrycoachpodcast
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ministrycoachpodcast

Kristen Lascola:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/klascola/

Jeffrey Lascola:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grandmasterbengal/

=======

Audio Equipment:

Microphones
https://amzn.to/3V9GrrT

Microphone Preamp
https://amzn.to/3QVB3WQ

Digital Recorder
https://amzn.to/3eXmvkj

*This episode is not sponsored. Some of the links are affiliate links which simply means, if you buy something, we will receive a small commission (at no additional cost to you) Thank you!*

Support the show

Speaker 1:

Everyone wins. When the leader gets better, everything in our wake gets better Our ministry, our teams, our morale, the culture, the creativity, the innovation. Everything is better when the leaders are better. And we're meant to be leaders, not managers, and I wonder if that question has ever struck you before of just what is the difference between management and leadership. I'm going to talk about three different styles of leadership today that all can really be reflected in the leadership of Jesus, so I feel like it comes on pretty good authority, not just my opinion. Today we're talking about three effective leadership styles for youth ministry.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we give you weekly tips and tactics to help you fast track the growth and health of your youth ministry. My name is Jeff Laskola and this lovely lady is oh thanks, oh, thanks, kristen Laskola.

Speaker 1:

And today we're talking about effective leadership styles in youth ministry and we're going to ask the question which one are you? And one thing I love about the church I work at is from early on they always instilled in us this distinction between little L leader and a big L leader. And little L leadership is much more like managerial, based of just you're managing what is under your care, you're keeping things running, whereas big L leaders develop systems, they develop people, things are better because they were there, so they maintain. They don't maintain the status quo, but they grow something, so they maintain. They don't maintain the status quo, but they grow something.

Speaker 1:

They develop people and everything we're going to talk about today and you'll see why falls under that category of big L leadership. And that's the goal to be that kind of leader that has moved beyond management to actual leadership. And I wonder if that question has ever struck you before of just what is the difference between management and leadership. And when you step into true leadership, you realize how much you hate management and that management is so soul sucking. I mean, that's how I feel. I always tell my team please don't turn me into a manager. I don't want to do that. That is where my ministry soul goes to die, when I feel like I'm managing your tasks, I'm managing your behavior, I'm managing your schedule, and anytime I've had a partner in ministry that I had to manage, it just did not go well.

Speaker 2:

Does that mean, like, a lot of hand-holding, a lot of checking in? Yeah, just like, if I don't give youholding a lot of checking in.

Speaker 1:

If I don't give you a list, you can't start your day. If I don't check in, you're not doing your tasks. If I'm not helping you manage your time, you won't finish things on time, if I'm not telling you, hey, it's three, 30, you better get going. I mean, I just shrivel and die under that. And so really getting the people around you, not just yourself, but getting the people around you to move into that big L leadership too, because, like Craig Groeschel says, everything in our wake gets better.

Speaker 1:

Our ministry, our teams, our morale, the culture, the creativity, the innovation. Everything is better when the leaders are better, and we're meant to be leaders, not managers. So I'm going to talk about three different styles of leadership today that all can really be reflected in the leadership of Jesus. So I feel like it comes on pretty good authority, not just my opinion, but styles that he definitely showed throughout his earthly ministry, and I'll unpack that a little bit. So number one is called open handed leadership, and it's exactly what it sounds like. You hold your leadership and your authority with an open hand, and here's what leaders are usually good at. Is this big word delegation? Right? It's not a big word, but it's like big in the sense that everyone talks about it. It's delegation, delegate, don't forget to delegate, delegate you shouldn't be doing everything. Delegate, I agree. Delegate. However, what are you delegating? So like I think small leadership, little L leadership thinks I'm delegating. So like I think small leadership, little l leadership thinks I'm delegating tasks to you. Well, I couldn't possibly get all this done.

Speaker 1:

So you, you know and, more specifically, tasks they don't want to do right, I was gonna say is it stuff that you don't want to do or you can't do? Maybe because that could fit like, say, I hate graphic design and I'm really bad at it and Caleb, my guy's director, is excellent at it. Well, why not give it?

Speaker 1:

to him he's gonna love it and so, and in a sense, yes, that is correct. However, we are trying to think beyond just tasks, because that's not what makes people leaders right, that's what makes them workers, and that's good. We need people who can work, we all need to work, but the challenge is to get beyond that and actually give away some of our authority and to give away responsibility. And that word authority, I think, think, is really huge, because when we put somebody in charge of something like a system, a program, a project, really handing it off to them and saying you have the authority to make the decision and this is something I train my interns on early on when they over ask me questions about their own project, well, well, should it start at six or seven, like own project, as in, should it start at six or seven?

Speaker 2:

Like own project, as in they came up with the idea for this project or a project that you gave them. It could be either one.

Speaker 1:

So say I'm like, hey, you're in charge of planning our next service project. Here's a few parameters, but you need to take the ball and run with it. And if they start saying, well, what should we eat, or who should cater, or what time should it start, if they're over asking me, then the I need to make sure they understand the authority of this project is yours and they might need the boost for me to say I trust you to make these decisions. I'm here to help, but I'm not here to make all the decisions, because that's authoritative help, but I'm not here to make all the decisions because that's authoritative. Like that's what authority is, is I'm. I'm in charge of saying what happens next. I want you to sit in that seat and you decide what happens next and I will help execute. Yeah, what's my part, you know? Oh, I can set up the tables. I can, you know, but I'm not the decision maker. You've got to release that. And so a lot of leaders are really good at the delegation process, but they aren't really good at handing authority over to people. Well, what's our next series? I don't know. What is it? Well, what should we talk to the kids about? I don't know. Develop it.

Speaker 1:

You know, one of my interns did a great job of this recently. He came up with the series that we were going to do and he planned out every week and outlined it and we all just signed up for the week we wanted to teach and he didn't really ask any questions like well, what should we do? What should we do first? This or that was like I'm on board with your plan. You have the authority and that's training people how to be big L leaders, to trust their leadership, and if it fails, or a part of it fails, that's part of it too. Like there has to be room and we'll talk about that and more in a little bit. But there has to be room for what happens if we should have started at seven instead of six and you should have ordered more dessert and you didn't. Okay, well, let's talk about that. On the back end of like well, let's come up with a ratio. If we have 50 people attending something, a rule of thumb might be this, you know, and you don't leave people high and dry.

Speaker 1:

Like well, figure it out and fail, and flail around but, however, you can't be with them in every detail. There's some times where you just are like you've got to decide and I I really feel like the image there of holding your leadership with an open hand is hard for a lot of leaders because they want to hoard their authority really. And there's so many insecure leaders yeah, like everywhere, like it's not just a church problem feel like somehow very insecure people get into leadership which you would think would be so counterintuitive, but they're so afraid somebody's going to take their job or usurp their authority or outshine them, you know.

Speaker 1:

So this is an exercise in your own humility and confidence and grounding yourself of like, you know, like I don't have to be the guy, the girl, like on everything. Like yeah, I don't have to be the show, somebody else can step in and everything gets better. I think when everyone feels confident to make a decision, make a call, go for the play right and biblically, I really see this in John 21, 17, where Jesus is restoring Peter and he's like Peter, do you love me? Yes, lord, I love you. Peter, do you love me?

Speaker 2:

I love you, Peter. Do you love me? That's totally how he said it too.

Speaker 1:

Kind of feels like it sometimes. I'm sure it wasn't, it was much more serious. But then he said then feed my sheep. Like he was putting the keys into Peter's hand. Like you are not perfect, however, I trust you to have this authority like go take care of them. And he didn't really tell him how necessarily you know of like here's the blueprint, like number one you're going to do this, this and this.

Speaker 1:

He's like in that restoration process he was showing Peter, I trust you Like, go and do it. Like you've been with me long enough, you know how this works, you've seen it done, you've been deployed to do it. Now go feed my sheep If you love me. This is what I'm putting in your hands and I love that trust that he shows and just sort of hands it off to him and it's pretty amazing really.

Speaker 2:

And to add to that, you did say you know, like Jesus said. You didn't say, but the theory was you've been with me, you've seen, you know you should be able to do it now on your own.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Same thing with your volunteers, leaders or, you know, staff. It wouldn't be like day one, welcome on. Oh, that's actually number two. Yes, okay. Nevermind welcome on. Oh, that's actually number two. Yes, okay, never mind. Well, no, because you're see, you get it, jeff and I don't read the notes.

Speaker 1:

I was just thinking that. Did you not read these? I guess not okay.

Speaker 1:

So number two would be develop and deploy bingo that is a like what you were saying a clear jesus move, right. So what did he spend most of his earthly ministry doing? Developing and deploying his disciples for ministry so that when we do get to John 21, 17, he can say now go feed my sheep. But before that, in Matthew 10, jesus sends out the 12.

Speaker 1:

So they had been with him and he finally is just like all right, guys getting a pair, you know, group project time, get your partner and you guys are going to go do this, and he gives them some. He gives them like a few instructions that are actually more scary than no instructions, because he's like don't take money, don't take a change of clothes, don't take. And it's like oh, oh, my gosh, like we're really doing this with just the clothes on our back. Here we go, and you know, and it was just a really cool experience for them I heard a really great quote in a group session the other day and someone said the best gift you can give your church is leaders you know, and that is what Jesus was developing like leaders that he was going to hand this ministry off to.

Speaker 1:

So I guess a great question to ask yourself is do you have a track record? Like it's interesting when you look at different pastors and you look and you're like how many leaders have come out of your ministry?

Speaker 1:

Especially when you've been there for 10, 15 years yeah, is there anyone that you could have deployed, like? Is there someone that you could deploy to different ministry, a different position, a different church, even you know? Is there anyone who, like, if tomorrow someone were to say we are splitting junior high and high school, because I know a lot of you are combined and do you have any names for someone who could do one or the other? Do you have someone on your staff or what have you been doing?

Speaker 2:

have you been developing? Do you even have someone on your staff that can fill in if you're sick or can't make it, or you're on vacation, or if you were on?

Speaker 1:

a sabbatical. Like are you imparting what you know? Like, basically, like the goal is like teach them everything you know. Like that's my goal all the time with my upper staff. Is like everything I know, you should know everything I can do. You do. You might not do it exactly how I do it, but nonetheless you know how to do it or where to go to find the answer, at least. And and within this I think it's really important, in the Jesus style, you know to put character over competency every single time. So you know we are definitely the ones who are going to develop their skills, but putting people's character above their competency when they don't get it right at first.

Speaker 1:

Right, because there might need to be like some mercy here and forgiveness and patience. Just like Jesus when he had to kind of restore Peter and say you had a big ministry fail, you kind of pretended you didn't know me. Like that hurt, let's fix this. And he shows this, this mercy and forgiveness. And we have to know that the staff that we're training up will fail. There'll be a really bad message, there'll be a really botched game, there'll be a really disorganized event and something will go wrong. And how do we restore them back to all right, like we got to get back up. What did we learn? How can we do this differently and it's not us necessarily doing it for them every time, but like let's dissect this problem in this process. What, and you know, I hate that. This is true, but one of the best teachers is pain.

Speaker 2:

Oh, 100%. So it's like A lot of times people won't move until the pain is great enough.

Speaker 1:

And so when you have the pain of a failed like embarrassing game that was disorganized or an event that nobody knew about, so nobody showed up, because you didn't communicate- it. Like.

Speaker 1:

that's painful and most people will learn very quickly from an experience that they feel like they let you down, they let the ministry down, whatever. So, all that to say, we're not setting people up to fail. However, if they do fail, it's a pretty good teacher. And how we restore them after that. You know, I love looking to that model of how Jesus talked to Peter is like OK, you can do this, and I'm restoring your responsibility and the trust I have in you and the purpose that you are originally called to. So I love you know.

Speaker 1:

Like with the competency thing, where you know how I'm saying like, put character over competency. When Jesus deploys the disciples and they go out to do ministry, you know, and they come back and they're talking to Jesus and they're like oh my gosh, this is so cool, even the demons obeyed us. Like the demons, we cast them out. And Jesus is like don't rejoice that the demons listen to you, rejoice that your names are written in heaven. And I just love that moment of like okay, like you did some cool stuff, don't forget the gospel.

Speaker 1:

And I think that's such a cool model of ministry. Like, no matter how many cool things we do, like or you know that our team has these successes and wow, and we had this many kids come and this was great and it's like cool, yeah, great, let's keep doing great ministry, but don't forget, your names are written in heaven Like it was the, the gospel, and that's really the only thing we're doing here, and that's really the only thing that matters, like teaching them that it's like the character of who we are, that we are his, not because 100 kids came to whatever like yeah, let's celebrate a great night and hard work.

Speaker 1:

I'm not saying like so don't be, happy about it, but well, and the focus.

Speaker 2:

What would I mean? I? I think nature would say, if you put on a perfectly planned event, you know you'd be so excited about it, you know, executed perfectly, but maybe no kids grew in their faith, came to know Jesus, or something like that versus horribly planned, a horribly executed event but four kids got saved. I think you know you obviously would celebrate that, but I think the goal sometimes becomes the perfectly executed event but four kids got saved. I think you know you, obviously you would celebrate that, but I think the goal sometimes becomes the perfectly executed event.

Speaker 1:

Sure, I fall into that all the time.

Speaker 2:

And not so much. What is the ultimate outcome of this? It's the perfect cheer.

Speaker 1:

SNL a while ago.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I know it now. Oh yeah, trust me.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, I agree, you know, sometimes we get so focused on the ministry Like somebody said it recently that I'm like, yeah, it's like we've been working at the burning bush for so long. We forget, like, what we're doing there kind of thing is like it's not holy ground anymore, kind of like we were immune to the real task and we're like let's just make this thing awesome you know and youth ministry world like oh, this many kids came and then this kid barfed up beans. What?

Speaker 2:

a success or whatever, and that's not to say you don't put that effort in and try to do your best and put on a great event and all that stuff, but it's never losing sight of the ultimate goal.

Speaker 1:

Right Of like. What is the true celebration? Yeah, that are our students, names written in heaven, are we? And teaching your team? That's the core of ministry, no matter how many cool things we do, that's the true victory.

Speaker 1:

You know, OK, I I think we get it All right. And lastly, third is relational leadership. So obviously Jesus shows this over and over and over again. I love Matthew 20, 25 through 26. Jesus called them together and said you know that the rulers of the Gentiles lorded over them and their high officials exercise authority over them, not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant. I think relational ministry is probably the most, or relational leadership is probably the most powerful, and that's where we're really trying to use our not so much our title as influence, like to be. I mean, some people maybe care that you're called a pastor or director or whatever you're called at your church, or a leader, but the whole point like this is kind of a weird. Fact is that sometimes we get all like wound up about the title pastor and who has it and who doesn't?

Speaker 1:

I know a little bit about that, but it's also interesting that that word is not actually even in the Bible. Yeah, we can talk about elders and deacons and whatever, but the word shepherd is, and if that's what we're boiling pastorship down to, like that is really what it is Like. Jesus kind of set it up perfectly to Peter, like feed my sheep. Who is the person who feeds sheep? It's a shepherd like shepherd my people.

Speaker 1:

What does a shepherd do? It's not like hey, listen up, sheep, you know he's a protector, right, he lays down his life for them, he keeps them safe, he cares for them, he feeds them. You know your family is always talking about lambing in ohio and like how intense this work is is making sure the little worms aren't on the lambs and feeding them the right amount with these bottles. And like caring for sheep's a big deal. It's not an authoritative role, it's a. It's a an authoritative role. It's a. It's a caretaker role, because sheep really cannot take care of themselves. Like they're very interesting animal, like they need a lot of human help and I I think that sets up the pastor role perfectly.

Speaker 1:

And sometimes we see that in terms of our students.

Speaker 1:

Like yes, I am shepherding my students, my little flock, but also we are teaching our, our staff, our leaders, our interns, our small group leaders, whatever we are shepherding them as well, we are their shepherd.

Speaker 1:

We can pastor them in the relational way of like, hey, it's not like I'm up here and you guys are down here because I'm somehow in charge and you know everyone listened to me and my.

Speaker 1:

Not like I'm up here and you guys are down here because I'm somehow in charge and everyone listened to me and my ideas and I'm the most important person in the room. Like Jesus is saying, we don't lord it over them but we turn it into sacrificial serving life on life. And that's why ministry is hard is because there's no separation sometimes between you yes, are my coworker, but also my sheep. I love you and I'm supposed to care for you, and so those lines get blurred and I just have not figured out a way around that so far. Pastoral care can be difficult, but I think one thing jesus was really good at is interacting with his little disciple sheep as individuals and not just as like well, here's the team but seeing each person individually, having words for each person individually, having a relationship with each person so it's not individually get yeah like relationship, them and me, right, it's like oh and, and it's individual for each person.

Speaker 2:

You're, you're being intentional with them, not a blanket statement, a blanket leadership where you all get the same and and uh, yeah, I'm not making it, you know, and you have to know that to you like.

Speaker 1:

a perfect example is we did a leader, like two interns and two directors, and we met and we're like talking about this next year of like, what do we want to do, what's going well, what needs help, blah, blah, blah. We met as a team and everyone put their input. And then I did performance review, like meetings, sitting down with each one individually, and I just went through here's what you're so good at, and those lists were very long and then I said, hey, here's a couple of things you need to work on, but at every single meeting, to be honest, the bulk of the time was just talking about them and their life.

Speaker 1:

And hey, what are you doing right now that is giving you life? Like, what are you excited about? What's a challenge for you right now? Like and I wasn't asking it like an interview, like that, it was just we just had lunch and started chatting, like and they would open up about, like here's where I'm struggling, or, man, it's hard for me to trust God in this area.

Speaker 1:

Or you know, and it was just so cool to like get to just be doing like friendship and life with them. And I love like Jesus's model of you know, that classic story where they're in the upper room and he's going to wash their feet, and that sacrificial thing, like we should be the hardest workers on our team. Like when the series goes out, I usually let my team pick what they want to teach on first and then I'm like I'll take your leftovers, like I'll figure out how to teach on whatever, but what do you feel passionate about? Take that and run with it, you know.

Speaker 1:

Or when it comes to different things, I always like to let them go first of like well, you, you choose, and then I'll do what's left, you know, and just hanging in there to the end with them of not because we have the authority using it, but rather coming alongside. And it's just so interesting too. I've been studying a lot of the life of Jesus and I recently did a talk on the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness and it's so interesting and I never really thought about it this way, but Jesus never, ever used his power for his own benefit. So every time we see Jesus exercising his when he easily could have Exactly, and that's what Satan was saying of, like, who's going to stop you?

Speaker 1:

Just get a snack you know, get off the cross. Go around the cross like avoid the cross get the crown, who's going to stop you?

Speaker 1:

And when you look at his exercise of power or miracles or whatever you're like, never once was it for his own comfort, his own agenda, like I mean, he could have done things very differently. Like I would have made a feather bed out in the wilderness with an air conditioning unit and like sushi on demand. You know if I was him in the wilderness. But we never like. How much self-control does that take when you have every capability to end your own suffering? I mean, and I'm talking even before the cross- you know and you don't.

Speaker 1:

Every time you used it it was to end someone else's suffering and it was like that's kind of mind-blowing and satan was kind of taunting him with that of like. So, just like, turn these stones into bread, or like, throw yourself down, the angels will come and get you and everyone will be like, oh my gosh, he is god like you don't have to do the whole cross thing prove in another way, you know, and it was just like dang, and so I think taking a page out of that book looks a lot like.

Speaker 1:

whose comfort are we seeking like? Are we seeking to comfort or be comforted? Are we seeking to, you know, have the best position, the biggest piece? Because we've to, you know, have the best position, the biggest piece, because we've earned it, you know, and I think that's so easy as the leader, to do Like I've earned it, so I should sleep in this bed, or I should have this spot, or I should get to choose first and you guys serve me.

Speaker 1:

You know we would never say that, but do our actions indicate that we feel that way of just like all right minions you?

Speaker 1:

know, I got, I'm going to do what is in my best interest, and then you people work around. That you know, and I think people intuitively know what kind of leader you are. You know, and so I just love Jesus's like you know. It's's so crazy. Like one of our teaching pastors, Larry Osborne, says this all the time like the gospel is like a diamond and he's like it's the same diamond, but every time you turn it yeah it.

Speaker 1:

You see a new aspect of it, just like a diamond, like, oh, the way the light hit this facet or this groove or this part of it. You see new aspects of it and I feel like you know, no matter how long I'm a Christian, every time I like start to study Jesus, he shows me something new, like I did not know that, I did not see, that you know. And so, yeah, I love diving into. Like how did he treat people, how did he work alongside people? How did he show love, mercy, kindness to people? And so, yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if we can say which style are you? One, two or three? Probably the best thing would be to be a combination of them all, because Jesus was all of those and more. Again, it's not an exhaustive list. I always say that, but is there an area, maybe, or or one of these oh yeah, I do that all the time, no brainer and one of these did it kind of give you that like, huh, yeah, maybe I need to change my mindset or my pattern on that one strong.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we did an episode a while back you guys should check out. It is five leadership habits of highly effective and visionary youth pastors. I think it would pair well with what we talked about here. Sweet, sweet, all right, we're gonna do a question of the day, which? Is what is, or who is, a misunderstood villain in cinema history?

Speaker 1:

I think miranda, priestly from the devil, wears Prada. Have you ever seen that movie?

Speaker 2:

I, oh, I've seen parts of it. Is she the lead lady?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, leading lady the head.

Speaker 2:

She's the boss of the company. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Um it's uh Meryl street Meryl street, yes, and I feel like she's the villain in the movie. But when you get a little glimpse, like to her personal life, it's like very sad and you realize that she is trying to feel important at work and kind of exactly the opposite of what we're talking about today, like using her authority in the wrong way to make people intimidated and scared and pull all these power moves so that she can feel powerful in her position and she makes everyone's life horrible.

Speaker 1:

But and very, everyone's scared of her, but it's really coming from a place of loneliness and insecurity you know and, like you, see this scene where she's like home and it's like her husband is gonna leave her and it's just a lonely life and it makes you it's like compassion. Why are you laughing?

Speaker 2:

no, I just it's interesting. Her character is very dislikable I know but yeah, I could see where you get those. I think I've only seen it one time, but yeah, she's just like kind of pretending the whole time you know that's how I like sensed it. Maybe I'm thinking way too deep about the devil wears prada, but it's a random question, I would say joaquin phoenix's character in gladiator commodus I thought you're gonna say joker no, that would have been a good one too.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I should change mine no, I'll stick with it, because I feel like he I mean, ultimately he ended up being a psycho villain. But I feel like a lot of it had to do with how he was raised, the lack of attention maybe he was given by his father and then all he wanted was to lead and I think, lead well, but he was driven by pride and insecurities and it kind of just spiraled out of control. For him.

Speaker 1:

Wow, two bad leadership models. That pairs really well with this content.

Speaker 2:

But in the comment section below there's a misunderstood villain, and again, I'm not siding with Commodus, he ended up being a total psycho, but just saying there could be some.

Speaker 1:

It's never. We're not excusing it, it's just saying like, okay, like you're broken, you feel for them for a little bit yeah.

Speaker 2:

All right, this is the community comment of the day. This comes from Jana Williams, who said I've loved how you've shared your personal experiences in ministry, including both mistakes and wins. My favorite episode was on the four phases of youth ministry. It really helped put things in perspective for me. Thanks for everything.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I liked that episode too. Thanks for reminding me the four phases of youth ministry.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that was a great episode. I love that one. Make sure you guys check that out and we thank you, Jana, for your comment. We thank you guys for watching and listening and we'll see you next time.

Speaker 1:

Today we're talking.

Speaker 2:

No. Next time. Today we're talking no. Welcome to the ministry coach podcast where every week we give you practical and and something else I don't know what it is, and the goal is to always be moving toward big L, little leadership, leadership,