Ministry Coach: Youth Ministry Tips & Resources

What Your Youth Ministry Numbers are ACTUALLY Telling You!

• Kristen Lascola • Episode 240

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Now is the time to grow a healthy, thriving youth ministry...if you'd like to work with us, check out GrowYourYouthMinistry.com *** Ever found yourself doing a little "pastor math" with your youth group attendance? You're not alone. Those numbers we sometimes inflate or obsess over aren't just digits – they're telling a powerful story about your youth ministry's health and impact.

What makes this conversation so vital is that youth ministry numbers truly matter, not because bigger is better, but because "every number has a name, every name has a story, and every story matters to God." This perspective transforms how we view our student ministry metrics from a source of pride or insecurity into valuable insights about the young people we're called to shepherd.

Ready to transform how you view your numbers and create a youth ministry that students can't wait to attend? This episode provides practical steps to close that back door, create magnetic programming, and foster healthy, sustainable growth.  What story are your numbers telling you? Share your thoughts or questions about your ministry trends – we'd love to continue this conversation with you!

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We love hearing from you all and we do our best to provide powerful and insightful youth ministry content on a weekly basis to be that coach and mentor you may not have, but desperately need.
If you have an episode idea, please E-Mail us at MinistryCoachPodcast@gmail.com!

If you have it on your heart to support this ministry, please consider going to our Patreon page at: www.patreon.com/ministrycoach

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You may also enjoy these episodes:

(#219) LISTEN TO THIS if You Want Consistent Youth Ministry Attendance

(#239) Your Youth Ministry Website is ALL WRONG! (Here's How to Fix It!)


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Speaker 1:

What are your numbers trying to tell you in youth ministry? That's what we're talking about today on the Ministry Coach Podcast.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast where we give you weekly tips and tactics to help you fast track the growth and health of your youth ministry. If this is the first time, we're meeting.

Speaker 1:

My name is Jeff Laskola and this is Kristen Laskola, and I would like to know if this is the first time we're meeting. Maybe drop a comment below and tell us if this is your very first episode. That would be really cool to hear because the topic we're talking about today might bring some new listeners, because if you're a youth pastor, numbers is a hot topic and it can be a sore subject. It can be a source of pride for some. It could be a sense of or a source of insecurity for others, depending on what those numbers are. And I think, regardless if your numbers are a sense of pride for you or a source of insecurity for you, all of us have done pastor math with our numbers. So pastor math is like you inflate your numbers by like 10 or so you know, or you take the highest number you've ever.

Speaker 2:

I think that's usually what it is and that becomes your average exactly.

Speaker 1:

Well, how many students do you have on a given week and you think of the highest number? You can think of that you've ever had. And then you round up right and then that's your highest, that's your average attendance, and I don't think any of us are intentionally like I'm going to lie about this.

Speaker 2:

But there's just this. Well, maybe, but hopefully not.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I just think there's this need in us to inflate them a little bit because, whether we like to admit it or not, I think our numbers are tied into our value and nobody would say that. But it's this just understood thing like, wow, you have a youth ministry of a thousand. Whoa, you're legit. Oh, you only have two kids. And we will spiritualize it and we'll say no, it's fine, but deep down, we wonder and it? And we'll say no, it's fine, but deep down we wonder like and it's okay to wonder, it's good.

Speaker 1:

Actually, and that's what we're going to talk about today is like well, what? Not necessarily like numbers being good or bad. Let's look at it in a way of numbers telling a storybers don't tell us everything. That's what our senior pastor always says. He's like numbers don't tell us the whole story, but they do tell us a story, and so you can't put well, if it's big, it's good, If it's small, it's bad, it's not as concrete and simplistic as that, in addition to the story it's telling, are the numbers going up or are the numbers going down in a trend setting?

Speaker 2:

jumping ahead, silly goose I figured I would, why not?

Speaker 1:

you're a trendsetter, jeff, you're brilliant, something like that. Well, yeah, so we're gonna say today well, what question should we be asking ourselves to? To sort of try to pull out the story that they're trying to tell?

Speaker 1:

us about what's going on, because they are an indicator. And here's why numbers matter. I love what this pastor said. He said numbers matter because people matter. Every number has a name, every name has a story and every story matters to God. And so we can't just say, oh, numbers don't matter. Well, yes and no, because if you look at it, it's like well, I mean, number one is a person, number two is a person. So if you're assigning people to these numbers, well then they do matter if they're people.

Speaker 1:

It's just numbers don't matter in the sense that they don't tell us how the end all be all story of how valuable our ministry is or how effective it is or how dynamic it is or how good we are as a pastor. That is where they can't communicate everything. But they do matter in the sense that they reflect real souls like real people and it's good to. I guess. Today I want to have kind of like a healthier relationship and a healthier perspective on numbers. So first, are you even taking accurate attendance and consistent attendance? So, like, do you know what your numbers are recently accurately, like you know?

Speaker 1:

Here's what I would say a great place to start is you don't take attendance consistently and accurately. That is a great place to start from. This episode of find a system that works for your setting, of how you can make sure you know who's actually coming through the doors. That's a huge step of. I mean, knowing who's coming helps in all kinds of ways with discipleship, assimilation. You know being seen, known and kept up with. You know tending the flock like caring for the sheep.

Speaker 1:

You got to know who the sheep are and if they're coming or going or where have they been. It just tells you so much information. So if you don't even take attendance yet, please start doing that. Secondly, what we want to start to look at is if we are trending up and this is kind of where you were going a second ago, I think if you are consistently trending up or consistently trending down or staying the same. Here's how you can find that out. Let's assume you have been doing your attendance for however long you've been in ministry. What you want to do is pull the numbers at least from the last calendar year. If you have it, I think it would be better to go back a couple of years, year to date. So right now it's April, so April 2025 is current. Go back to April 2024. What was our consistent or average number for the spring of 2024 and 2023. And let's compare those two things and see where are we trending when we compare it to the years past.

Speaker 1:

Are we going up? And if so, then you can get a little more specific and say by how much? So, are we growing by 10%? Are we ready for that 10% growth? Are we shrinking by 10%? Now we're going to talk a little bit more specific, because even that can't tell us the full picture, but it's really good. It's a really good starting place.

Speaker 1:

And a little side note if you're a pastor who is going to be pitching for anything with your senior pastor, maybe you want to raise, maybe you want a budget increase, maybe you want to hire another staff member. This is very good information to know. So if you can make a case for why you need the extra money in your budget or why you need the extra staff member because you can clearly show an upward trend in your youth ministry, it's a lot easier to make a case than just I want one, you know, or I? Why do you want to raise? Cause I want more money. Inflation, you know Well, of course. But can you make a case for? Well, hey, I've grown. We've grown consistently 10% every single year. More families are coming and you know, the bigger the ministry, I mean, the more care involved and the more complex it becomes involved and the more complex it becomes.

Speaker 1:

And there you go, you made more of a case. Here's why that, even if you can show a graph of where your numbers are trending, here's why that doesn't show completely the full story and why you have to get a little more in detail with your numbers, is because there's this backdoor factor that might be skewing things without you realizing it. For example, getting new students is really exciting, like some youth groups are like. We get new faces every single week.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Cool. I'm glad they're inviting their friends, your overall numbers aren't going up and that is like should be going off like a warning bell to you so if you are noticing new faces every single week, yet your numbers have either downtrended or have stayed the same, that means the back door is gaping open right now meaning people are coming in the front door and they're just walking right out the back door.

Speaker 1:

In simpler terms, you're not retaining anyone and that should go off, like I said, like a warning bell for you. So then you have to start to ask deeper questions here. Why aren't they staying? So if somebody was eager enough to come and to visit and to see, but they didn't stay, we've got a problem and it's okay to acknowledge we have a problem. I think sometimes people don't want to look at numbers in their budget, their bank account, their checking account, you know, because they're like la, la, la, la, it's too scary to really dive in, and so I challenge you.

Speaker 1:

If you're kind of avoiding digging into the nitty-gritty, I would challenge you. You've got to ask these questions and be brave, because it doesn't mean you're bad, it doesn't mean your youth group's bad, it just means something's off and you can probably fix it. Know, unless it's some like toxic environment and, like you know, it's like some weird cult, it's like, well, you should be able to fix it. You just have to figure out where's the leak you know.

Speaker 2:

So Because the greatest thing any youth pastor not should say the greatest thing One of the best things for a youth pastor is when you're seeing these new faces, because it means people are inviting people.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely so.

Speaker 2:

It must be a good thing, it must be a good thing, but then, like you said, if you're not keeping them there, then they're. Yeah, there's obviously something going on. It's hard to get them in the door sometimes.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

It's like the last thing you want to do is once you finally get them, oh, they're not coming back.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and we can talk through some of that. Well, first of all, I would recommend Larry Osborne's book Sticky Church and that what we're talking about right now. That is the entire premise of the book of how to close the back door. Like people want to come, how do you keep them from just sneaking out the back door?

Speaker 2:

And you wonder where did all these people go? And if they're middle schoolers, you definitely don't want them sneaking anywhere. Lock the doors, security cameras. We have a whole episode on that. Don't want them sneaking anywhere.

Speaker 1:

So lock the doors. Security cameras we have a whole episode on that. Can't trust them.

Speaker 2:

Love them, love them.

Speaker 1:

Can't trust them.

Speaker 1:

So, some of them you can't Um. So if you're noticing, yeah, that's totally us, and what we're saying right now is resonating with you. Here would be my guess without knowing your youth ministry, without knowing you, without knowing exactly what is going on, here's what I would guess is that your discipleship model is broken. So I think people cannot get connected or grow. So it's kind of like a flash in the pan type of ministry where maybe they heard the gospel for the first time. They got saved. They were saved, they were excited, they were wanting to follow and know what's next.

Speaker 1:

And then they want to know what was next. And then they wanted to know. You know what I mean. You never gave them a next step. You just were like kind of the come, get saved, be excited, and then the next batch of people come and get saved and be excited.

Speaker 1:

So one way that we put this at our church is that we're believer focused, but seeker sensitive, meaning that we're most of our efforts go toward discipleship, but it doesn't mean that we're leaving the new person behind and that they feel like, oh my gosh, they're so far ahead of me Like I can never keep up. I can never, you know can't understand the terminology.

Speaker 2:

You know the traditions, maybe, that they're doing that Like it's like.

Speaker 1:

I don't know what this even means, so, and it doesn't mean so dumb it down, you know, or leave out the hard truth of the gospel? Not at all. But in the way that you speak um little things or like we always have bibles available, it's not like well, you didn't bring your bible, well, you're not in our club it's like oh, you don't have one here you go, take it home, you can have it.

Speaker 2:

Or the simple things like, if you're going in up, we're speaking in the book of revelation and maybe, pointing out, you go to your bible. It's the very last book. It's like, well, a lot, lot of your students that have been there for a long time are going to be like duh, you know, I know that. But it's that for that one kid that's like. This is the first time I've held a Bible Sure and now you tell me it's at the back.

Speaker 1:

I know where to go and I feel like weird, like looking over. Do you always patronize us? We know where the book of James is. And the pastors are like. I'm not saying it for you.

Speaker 2:

If you know where it is.

Speaker 1:

congratulations, good for you. What you do is you kind of speak for a little bit to give them time to find it. I was coaching one of our speakers this weekend and I told him like hey, you've got to give them time. You said Matthew six, 24. And then you just started. I'm like the kids need time, you know so, and you make it seem natural like all right, for you knew people were going to give you a couple minutes, but you just kind of talk and okay, let me set this up for you while you're getting there or something.

Speaker 1:

So it's just you're allowing people to to try to keep pace and not make it so inaccessible. So all that to say if your back door is wide open, it's probably a discipleship thing is that you're not giving people a clear next step, like, okay, I'm saved, I'm excited, I want to do this thing. Now what do?

Speaker 2:

I do.

Speaker 1:

It's not just like the same message every weekend and it's like, okay, now I'm ready to sink my teeth into something. So you never want to be that youth group. That is only where people come to get saved, but they can't come to be discipled and grow. You need both. It's not like so don't get saved.

Speaker 2:

It's like no, of course you need both, whereas the opposite is true as well, if it's just like a new person is coming and be like I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't think this is for me, because it's so. I'm clueless here.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, right it's, and there's definitely an art to it and, depending on the church culture, some churches are better at one particular aspect than the others. Where I work, we just really focus on discipleship. We want to create lifelong Jesus followers, that they learn how to intersect every part of their life and obedience to Jesus. Not just one exciting decision and a cool, emotional night and that was that, but giving them where to go next. So like, okay, well, where do they go next? They get in a small group, they start serving somewhere. They, you know, junior hires. Giving, I think, is important. So we sponsor a Compassion International kid and we challenge them to give generously to that kid, you know. So it's like giving small groups serving, using their gifts and serving, and that creates a more sticky environment because now they have relationships, now they are growing in their small group discussion, they're growing alongside peers of the same stage and station in life. They're being challenged to give sacrificially, whether it's their time or their parents' money or you know, whatever it might be.

Speaker 1:

So there's these next steps. Or we have another discipleship group thing called the deep end, where they have biblical challenges of memorizing the books of the Bible and memorizing scripture and they get little like chaos bucks for it that they can spend at the snack shack, getting them to go to camps and events. You know, there's always something to put in front of them of like a next step. So if you're noticing that back door is wide open, I think sitting down with your team and saying what's our discipleship model and if it's crickets and everyone's like what are you talking about? I don't know Then you might be like there it is.

Speaker 1:

Like there's the back door and you can start to work on that if your numbers, if you're noticing they're trending down. So that would kind of be like what we just talked about would be numbers probably staying kind of the same, new faces but no growth. So now let's talk about if they're actually trending down. Now this one's a sore subject and we're here with you, we're holding your hand because I know that. That is because I know that that is. We take it very personally as youth pastors and we think I'm doing a bad job, I'm going to lose my job, I am embarrassed I. What is wrong with me? And then the toxic comparison stuff comes in and you start looking at different youth groups on Instagram or in your own community and you're like, why does everyone love them and nobody loves us? And we're trying our best. And maybe if I had a $30,000 budget, I could do cool stuff too.

Speaker 1:

Maybe if I had a staff of 10, I could do cool stuff too, and we start to throw this pity party. Can you tell that? I've been there and so I know your thoughts and I know it's hard. But again, let's be brave and ask some questions of, instead of blaming everyone else. Well, because they're not committed, because they have sports and sports are more important. Or I don't have a big enough budget. So we think of all these reasons why we're trending downward, but it could not have anything to do with us.

Speaker 1:

It's all their fault, you know, and that's a pretty bad place to be, because then you're never. You have no hope at that point, like you're never going to be moving toward an upward trend. I mean, at least give it a try instead of just what was me kind of. So here's some questions I would be asking if I were downward trending. I would be asking number one are we effectively meeting the age group that we're intending to meet? So I think sometimes youth pastors with good intentions will aim too high for their students, or maybe too low.

Speaker 1:

So if you're, let's just go right in the middle and that's where I'm at middle school. You need to make sure you're on par with their level of maturity or lack thereof. You can't expect them to be high schoolers and design a high school group. If you're a high school pastor, please don't try to design a college group because you're trying to like raise the bar on them. It's like raise the bar in a different way but don't like hold them to a high standard of behavior, fine, but don't try to create, like this coffee shop environment because it's cool or something, when you have kids who are being in class all day and just want to throw a dodgeball at each other. Know your audience.

Speaker 1:

And I think sometimes you need to get more realistic of. Are you serving what they're eating? You know what I mean, and that is where the pride has to get abandoned, and don't try to fit a square into a peg hole.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

Write it in the comments below. Don't try to fit a round square into a peg hole.

Speaker 2:

Square peg in a round hole. Peg hole, a place to put pegs. Oh, I've got the perfect, perfect peg for that, then where is?

Speaker 1:

I'm going to stop talking. Um, where are we? Oh yeah, like, don't try to create an environment for the wrong age group. That could be a reason you might be trending downward. I would also ask are we inconsistent or disorganized? I really, really, really, as summer is coming up, encourage, please, don't cancel for the summer. I know it's everything within you wants to just push through. Please, just keep your momentum going. So what if people are traveling? So what if your numbers dip a little bit? Hold on to whatever momentum you have just keep it.

Speaker 2:

A lot of people just to camp on this for a second. A lot of people say I want to give my leaders a break, which to me it's like there are so many youth ministries that don't stop during the summer but also have leaders who aren't burnt out. If your leaders are getting burnt out and only working, or only working volunteering nine months.

Speaker 1:

There's a different problem going on.

Speaker 2:

It's not that they shouldn't be burnt out, and they're only doing nine months and you're giving them three or two or whatever. It is off. So consider that you know like keep that in the back of your mind.

Speaker 1:

Good point. Yeah, I mean, my leaders are not burnt out, are you guys? Are you listening?

Speaker 2:

They're still showing up.

Speaker 1:

They're still showing up. Well, and here's the thing too, I have a two leader system.

Speaker 1:

So, like one of them went to this really cool music festival last week, but her co-leader was there, so it's not like I can never miss a Tuesday, it's like be there and 75% of the time I things come up things come up and I always am flexible too with like you need to be late, you need to go to work, you need to pick up your kid, your car, like do whatever you need to do, you know, and so making sure I think you bring up a good point that your leaders aren't burnt out. So I mean, we got off on a slight little rabbit trail, but you're welcome you know, please don't stop for the summer.

Speaker 1:

So that's a a potential diagnosis of why you might be trending downward. Or a disorganized thing. Like can people even participate if they wanted to? Like last week's episode was all about the information that you're giving online on your website or on your social media. Is it working for you or working against you? Like, can somebody look at your online presence and say, oh, I know exactly when and where to meet and everything's crystal clear and if I have any questions, I know exactly who to contact? Or is it like has I mean, there's cobwebs in this website?

Speaker 1:

I don't think anyone's been in here in decades and that is definitely the wrong year. I don't think anyone's been in here in decades, and that is definitely the wrong year and I don't know about this. And so it's hard to trend upward when no fresh communication is going out on a consistent basis. So that's something you need to look at. Are you fun, friendly and energetic? I think sometimes youth groups are built for the people who are already there, so the friendly factor is a little lacking and I mean, please never underestimate the power of fun, like even as an adult.

Speaker 1:

Like I look forward to the nights of our Bible study, like when we play a game and have a treat and now we'll talk about the Bible, but I just want to like be human for 30 minutes and have some fun. We've been working all day and dealing, you know, kids and homework and sports and work and everything, and it's like let's just like, ah, something to look forward to you know, and you want the youth group to not just be well, we just come in and get right into the word, you know.

Speaker 1:

And you want the youth group to not just be well, we just come in and get right into the word, you know, because that's all we're here for. It's like true. However, you've got to have the human component in there of like we're all. I mean we're all just looking for fun and connection and a breather, and, and we do want to get in the word. I don't want to exchange one for the other, but make sure it's an energetic, fun environment that people come and they leave filled up of like oh, that was good and one leads to the other, like the fun part component is leading to.

Speaker 2:

when you go into your small groups, some of those walls are broken down. You feel more comfortable around these people. You know them better through games, through fun.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it has a definite purpose to it. And then here's one that you might hate me for. But are you staying culturally relevant, without compromising beliefs, of course, or compromising truth? But staying culturally relevant just shows that you understand the times, you understand the trends, you understand what's going on in teen culture right now. You don't have to dress like a teenager by any means, but you have to kind of have like an ear to the ground of a little bit knowing their world right you know to stay culturally relevant.

Speaker 1:

I remember that being such a big deal when I was in high school and hearing our pastor talk and then he'd throw something in. I was 14 and he would be like yeah, and like reference something in our world. I'm like how did he know about that?

Speaker 1:

you know, but it like made me feel so like oh, you get it and so the bottom line is, the goal is to create a youth ministry that checks all these boxes and, more obviously, this isn't an exhaustive list. There's way more in an important things. But just sort of looking at, hey, is there something in our program that might be responsible for the downward trend, is there an area of lack? And again, chances are you could fix it pretty quickly. Like the things we listed are not like, oh well, I don't know. Let's like do like a year overhaul I mean you could probably get it done in like two weeks of like implementing something to kind of inject one of these in there if you notice it lacking, and so kind of like, before we blame, the culture and sports and the apathy and the, you know well this church has more resources and that's why everyone's going there. Before we just blame, just remember, when people really want something, they will wait in a really long line and go out of their way to get it.

Speaker 1:

Chick-fil-a proves that over and over and over again. Dutch bros yeah, I don't understand it.

Speaker 1:

Maybe I should drink it one time and I'll understand. But sometimes a line I see for dutch bros are in and out, or chick-fil-a it's like. Or even the Costco gas line, you know if, if they really want it, they will find a way, reroute their you know way home to go by Costco to get the gas or go get waffle fries, chick-fil-a or whatever it is. I mean if, if it's good enough and they can't resist it, they will find a way.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

And knowing human nature is like that. How can we be that thing that's irresistible, to where it's like, yeah, it's a late night, or yeah, I had to come after sports, or yeah, but oh, it's so good, it's so good.

Speaker 1:

I can't not go. And that's the feedback that we've been getting from parents, which makes me feel like, okay, we're really hitting this age group where, where they are, and we've created something that they are excited for. It's not for high schoolers, it's not for elementary kids, it's for junior like, and that's one of our mission statements. We say we speak junior high and that's how we describe ourselves to parents, and I think it's really true, because they will do anything to get there. So what is that part of your ministry where, instead of complaining because that's not going to get us anywhere, or blaming, thinking, okay, how can we become this irresistible place where people have just got to be? So, hey, friend, I just wanted to interrupt this episode for a second to let you know about an awesome opportunity for you and your youth ministry. So last year we launched our course and coaching program called Youth Ministry Growth Accelerator and the response has been amazing. So we've helped tons of youth pastors grow the size and health of their youth ministry and we want to invite you to be a part of that as well, because maybe you're just sort of feeling stuck in a rut, maybe you don't know what to do next, maybe you just have a vague plan in your mind of what you're doing and you want some real help to get you from where you are to where you want to go. So if that sounds like something you've been looking for, go to growyouryouthministrycom and check it out for more details.

Speaker 1:

All right, let's get back to the episode. I guess we'll wrap up by saying one phrase that I've heard over and over and over again throughout my ministry when it comes to numbers is our senior pastor always says healthy things by nature grow. Now, I'm not saying if you're not growing, you're unhealthy overall, but there might be an area that you just need to diagnose and get in there with your toolbox and kind of fix and see if that excels, accelerates your growth. And it's crazy because a lot of our listeners give us that feedback of like, hey, this episode you address this, and I started implementing it and I watched our numbers grow. So it was like just one area that you were kind of missing and you were like, ah, I never thought of doing this with our events or this with our game, or this with our team, and so I don't know what that area is for you. But I just want to end on a hopeful. Note that if you notice a downward trend, just start trying a ton of stuff.

Speaker 2:

That's what I do, but make sure you're only doing one or two things at a time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Instead of we just changed 40 things.

Speaker 1:

No, I don't know which is the thing that did or didn't do it, or whatever. That's a great point, and I think that was what I did when I first started.

Speaker 2:

It was like, and really that's like I feel like that's the capacity you probably have. Anyways, let's just tweak this one thing you know for this two weeks or whatever it is yeah.

Speaker 1:

And then it kind of just becomes a part of your ministry. I remember thinking we have no worship, we need to get worship, and that's what I did. Okay, solved. We don't have a student leadership team. I need a student leadership team, I need a student leadership team. Worked on that, solved, kept it. We don't boom roasted, we don't have a cool camp. Let me redo our camp and work on that. Okay, got it. And so it was just like building brick by brick by brick, one at a time, and then when I felt like I felt like I had a good structure, then I would just start trying weird stuff, like I wonder if they would like this little like tradition, and then see if it was, if it stuck and was fun and was magnetic. Yeah, nah, we didn't like it.

Speaker 1:

Okay, let's try some other cool thing. And oh, it was here for a season. And then you start to learn over time your own ministry and culture and what the people want and what makes things stick and what makes people excited and you keep those things. But don't be afraid to try something and not keep it around for the end of time. Always be consistent with meeting. But as you add, in little fun traditions, like a million years ago I bought this thing from doug fields and josh griffin about the impossible shot and I'm like we'll try it, whatever, still doing it.

Speaker 2:

And yours is different than how they normally do it, but the idea is the same, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Like it's a little icebreaker we do and kids love it.

Speaker 1:

They love it and it's so fun and it's been a staple. But then we've done other things, like we used to do other icebreakers, and I was like, oh no, we're not going to do these anymore. So just kind of mess with it, kind of plug different things in and see what sticks and what's fun, and experiment with your ministry. Honestly, that's one of the things I love the most about my job. You know, I hope your church is the same. I'm not like I don't have to get approval for every idea I ever have, it's just like you know you know, I wonder this, and why don't we do this kind of thing and let's give it a try?

Speaker 1:

What do we have to lose? You know it's not a bad thing. If we like it, we'll keep it If we don't move on to the next idea. But just be open to trying a lot of different ideas and just seeing which ones are good and and then tweak it if it needs it. But yeah, just play around, experiment. You know it could always lead to the thing right.

Speaker 2:

You know you mentioned that line that I've heard a lot of people say it is healthy, things grow, which is true, and there's always somebody that will usually say, yeah, but weeds.

Speaker 1:

I have thought that too.

Speaker 2:

Here's the thing, mold grows, true, but in all of those situations like what does a healthy weed look like A growing weed?

Speaker 1:

We just don't like them.

Speaker 2:

So if you're feeding into it the wrong thing, it will grow. So the point of this entire episode, if you couldn't pick up on it, is growth is a good thing, tells a story, but doesn't tell all the story. Like you're saying, you're looking to grow in a healthy way. That's his entire podcast, because episodes one through. However, we're at right now, 200 and something is to grow healthy.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, because there's things that are big that are unhealthy. Like you, like, I used to always think, yeah, but I can think of this huge church and I don't think that's healthy, because not because they're big, and so we have to get away from that mindset too. Well, if it's a mega church, it's unhealthy, I already know it. It's like don't be so quick to judge, but sometimes big things are unhealthy, sometimes small things are unhealthy.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes medium things are unhealthy.

Speaker 1:

100 sometimes medium things are unhealthy sometimes average things are, so it's like you can't just like look at it and say, and so many people will do that, big equals bad right and some people are like no big must equal good right small bad, oh no, small must be good.

Speaker 2:

Right, it doesn't work that way right, which is, again, numbers only tell part of the full story. So another thing to consider and I'm speaking to all of you, I'm looking into the camera right now is that I think if you're here, especially if you've made it this far into this episode, good for you. You're doing a great job and you're looking to improve and that is important, and I feel like God has you where you need to be, in the ministry that you need to be, and you need to keep pouring into the students that you have and are always pushing towards bringing more of those students in, more of their friends in. But I feel like you are where you're supposed to be. You just keep getting better from there.

Speaker 1:

Wow, Jeff. And that, friends, that was Jeff's final thought on Thursday's episode oh, Jeff and that friends, that was Jeff's final thought on Thursday's episode, let's do a community comment of the day.

Speaker 2:

This comes from Shane Coker who says doing our second lock-in at the end of the month. I think he means second overall Kind of sounded like second lock-in in that month.

Speaker 1:

Wow, he is just fighting off more than any of us can chew.

Speaker 2:

I think I read that wrong. Last year we had eight students. This year we've already passed 20 registrations. Hey-o, it's a small ministry that is growing at such a fast pace and these videos have helped in so many ways. Yes, that is awesome to hear, shane. We really appreciate it and we appreciate you guys watching and listening.

Speaker 1:

And we'll see you next time. Do numbers really matter in youth ministry? And if so, how so? That's what we're doing. Sound like Dr Seuss? If so, how so? Who so? You so we so she so Be so Do.