Ministry Coach: Youth Ministry Tips & Resources

5 Mistakes Youth Pastors Make When Their Youth Ministry Isn't Growing

• Kristen Lascola • Episode 243

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Now is the time to grow a healthy, thriving youth ministry...if you'd like to work with us, check out GrowYourYouthMinistry.com *** That sinking feeling when your youth ministry isn't growing can trigger panic and questionable decisions. But what if your solution isn't going to bring the result you think it will?  In this episode, we take a look at 5 mistakes youth pastors often make when they are faced with the reality that their youth group is shrinking in size.  To be clear, the size of your youth group doesn't automatically equal effectiveness, and not every youth ministry is destined for thousands of attendees. However, when you sense momentum has disappeared or attendance is declining, it requires thoughtful investigation rather than hasty reactions.  In this strategic episode, we take a look at the challenging reality of student ministry stagnation and offer practical tips for reversing the course.

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You may also enjoy these episodes:

(#235) SPORTS vs. YOUTH GROUP: 5 Ways to Win the Battle of Priorities!

(#240) Do Numbers Matter?  What Your Youth Ministry Numbers Are ACTUALLY Telling You!


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Speaker 1:

Has your ministry stopped growing and are you worried about it? Well, today we're going to talk about five things you should not do if you're in that situation.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we give you weekly tips and tactics to help you fast track the growth and health of your youth ministry.

Speaker 1:

My name is Jeff Laskola and this is Kristen Laskola, and today we're going to talk about five mistakes that youth pastors make when their youth ministry is not growing. When I read the title I was like that's a tiny bit confusing. But here's the point of today is, if you are not growing and you're wondering what to do, we're going to help you know what not to do and, by extension, default you will know some things to do. But I think sometimes we get in a panic and we're like, oh no, it must be this or that. We're just going to help guide the thinking today a little bit to know, well, here's some mistakes that you want to avoid so you can be more likely to find the solution to get you out of the rut of stagnation, which none of us love. But I will say before we jump in here is growth is such a relative thing and stagnation is a relative thing, and I truly believe that not every church is meant to be a 5,000 person church and beyond.

Speaker 1:

I don't think that's the case and I don't think that if you aren't 5,000, 10,000, 20,000 people, that something's wrong. I don't think that every church, I don't something's wrong. I don't think that every church, I don't think every congregation, I don't think every town or city or leadership structure has the purpose or potential to just have this infinite growth forever and ever and ever. So I just want you to know that, going in that we've talked about this many times. I just want you to know that, going in that we've talked about this many times. But just the reminder size and effectiveness are like, not correlated necessarily. It's not like. Small churches are like, really like oh wow, well, no one comes because they're the only ones who are serious about the gospel.

Speaker 1:

And that's why they're small. And it's not like big churches are sellouts and it's not the reverse either. It's not like, well, the big churches clearly are doing it right and the small churches like, wah, wah, you know, you could be effective at any size. And so this is a question only you can answer, if you feel like your growth has stopped or you're stagnant, or you're on the decline or something like that. Not and we can't put a number on that, but that's something that you and your church and team will have to answer of. Like you know when something doesn't feel right, you know when the energy is gone, the momentum is gone, the health is gone, the numbers are staying still, or on the decline.

Speaker 1:

And so that's sort of what we mean. But not everything is meant to have this exponential growth forever, never, never. It's meant to be effective and healthy. And I think those are the questions we want to answer. And it was a lot of like when we did the episode very recently on numbers. We were like, well, numbers just tell us part of a story. We want to change our relationship with numbers to not be a source of guilt, shame or pride, but what do the numbers tell us? So we're going to continue that line of thinking today and the first thing if you notice that your ministry is not growing the number, one thing not to do is nothing. Don't just say, oh well, this is us, because it needs a little bit more investigation than that, and you're like, wait a minute. You just said every church is not meant to be in a state of exponential growth.

Speaker 2:

You did say that.

Speaker 1:

What this is, a ripoff man. Well, what I mean is it requires some investigation Like are we healthy and effective and growing for what would seem healthy for our particular location and context and people, or do I know we can grow beyond what we are? And that's the boat I was in. For a long time I inherited a youth ministry of 11 kids after coming from a youth ministry of 300. Now I'm in charge of the 11 and I left the team to do this and, based on our church and where we were and the passion that in the tools I had on my tool belt, I knew we could grow bigger than 11.

Speaker 1:

It wasn't like well, this is it for us. I knew it would take time, but I'm like, oh man, based on our town and how many junior hires like I knew we could do it. It just we needed some strategy. I knew we hadn't hit our like growth potential and I was right we hadn't.

Speaker 1:

So you don't just want to do nothing, you want to ask questions. Are we simply just maintaining what we have or are we? Do we have a vision for the future, like I did way back when, when I was a super young youth pastor, like I did, I had a vision for the future. I knew this wasn't it. And then you have to ask the question how are we going to get there? And that's where it gets tricky, obviously, is the how, because we all are like, of course, they want to grow. Okay, how do we? How do we do it? And that's mostly what we talk about on this podcast. But what you need to understand is that strategies also change from like what got you from 10 to 20 is not gonna be the same thing that gets you from 20 to 30 and then 30 to 40 and 40 and beyond.

Speaker 1:

So it's not like, well, this is what we've always done and this is just not. Is what we've always done, and this is just not exactly what you've always done probably isn't going to continue to work. So what gets you to 20 kids is not going to, and what gets you to 40 and 60 and 80 and these milestones. So not doing anything will never be effective. You'll just stay where you are. So you know you need to do something.

Speaker 1:

It's coming down to the how, and what I've noticed is it usually comes down to three different things. Either people aren't really connecting with other people, they don't have opportunities to build meaningful relationships Leadership is not strategic with people entering into meaningful relationships or, secondly, they're not being challenged in their faith. So this is very common in a church that's highly evangelistic, where it's like people come to get saved and that is it, and then come back next week and get saved again, and then come back next week and get saved again. Now, there's nothing wrong with a weekly altar call. I've been to a lot of really effective churches that do that. However, you can't leave the longtime believer behind twiddling their thumbs, being like how many times do I say the prayer? Go to the altar, whatever you need to make sure.

Speaker 1:

We always say at North Coast Church we're believer, focused, seeker, sensitive, so we're building disciples and that has the staying power, because people's faith is continually challenged and you give them a next step.

Speaker 1:

And if you're lacking that, your church probably will be stagnant.

Speaker 1:

And then, thirdly, people don't have opportunities to use their gifts and step into their purpose. The ministry is done by the ministers and they never challenge the congregation to do anything else and they might not have enough opportunities. So think about it like this If the only opportunities you have to serve are in the nursery or working with kindergartners, you leave out most men like sorry, to just be paint with a broad brush. We have incredible men that help with our little kids, but they're about 5%. Well, when we do a different project and we just did a whole weekend called serve your city, where we got out of the building, we canceled church, did all these service projects in our city to show the city we love you, we're not just here, come and get us, but we're going to you. Well, all these men who have all these technical skills, electrical skills, plumbing skills, construction skills that you're never going to catch teaching sunday school, but they're ready to get their power drills and their hammers and spend the weekend serving the city.

Speaker 1:

So the serving opportunities have to be dynamic. Now, obviously, I just painted with a broad brush and I know there's a man out there going, but I love it with the kids, and then I know there's a woman out there going. Well, I can do construction. Of course it's not 100%, but I'm saying are there dynamic opportunities for people of all walks of life, of all ages, of all genders, of all skill levels to use their skills? Or is it like, well, if you're not helping in children's, there's really nothing to do here? Those are, those are red flags that might start to point you in the right direction of looking hard at those questions, those three that I just mentioned, and that's when some idea might spark of. Okay, I think I know where the problem, kind of sniffing that out and might start to lead you down that path.

Speaker 1:

So we don't want to do nothing, but we want to try some new things, because whatever we're currently doing obviously isn't working. So you have to get comfortable with just trying and failing and or tweaking things. Or it's like, well, I can tell like, I just had a conversation with one of my leaders today and we started a program that she was very passionate about and it's going well, but it's not hitting the mark exactly. So we talked for about 40 minutes brainstorming how we can tweak it. To hit the nail on the head a little closer, it's like, ah, we're not going to get rid of it, but I think we always refer to the junior hires as our, our clients. You know, I think our clients want the candy immediately. They don't want to have to earn the candy when they memorize these verses later on down the line, but they want the immediate gratification. So we're trying to tweak it to fit the client of like. We want you to be in the word of God, we want you to memorize scripture.

Speaker 1:

I think our methodology might be slightly off in being willing to tweak that and change it. So are you investigating your ministry and to say, all right, where, where might we be slipping in one of those areas? And then number two a mistake that youth pastors make if things aren't going well is they make some. And I just said make changes, try things. However, there's a caveat there and a warning and an asterisk. Do not do something drastic like change your day and time that you're meeting Unless another caveat it's on Sunday night, then, yes, that is why you're not growing. Okay, worst night to me, just going to say it Sunday night no, of course there's going to be somebody, that's yeah.

Speaker 1:

And if it's working for you and if you have 300 kids coming, then keep going Right. When I was in college.

Speaker 2:

Specifically speaking to the person who is not growing and shrinking. Sunday night typically is not a good night.

Speaker 1:

And guess what? I'm just a person. I'm not like the wizard of Oz who knows every single thing. Like, filter this through your own wisdom and experience. Like, take it for what it's worth. I mean, I'm just a youth pastor like you.

Speaker 1:

So, um, I've just noticed that Sunday night stuff. When I was in college we had a Sunday night I guess it was youth group, but we were in college, so young adult group, whatever. It was great, it was big. They moved it to Thursday and it tripled in size. So I just feel like Sunday night is rough for a lot of reasons. That's not what today's podcast is about, but other than that, I would say, please don't make a drastic change of your time and the day. You know, because here's what will end up happening is we've talked about this before. You're going to just make changes, like you're going to exchange one problem for another. So there's going to be the people who are like, hey, wait a minute, we planned our whole life around Wednesday night. Why'd you change it to Thursday? And then you know you have the other. So it's just like, try to keep it, just don't make that drastic of a change.

Speaker 1:

I think sometimes youth pastors are like, well, maybe it's because no one can come on Thursdays and it's probably not that again, unless it's Sunday. That's usually not the solution. But I think we sometimes are like, well, everything's perfect, if it just must be the day and then it just gets. You probably will end up losing more people than you gain by doing a change as drastic as that. Just my opinion. You know, you know your church and community the best, but I would say that's probably not in my top 10 or 20 solutions for why it wouldn't be growing. That would be like all right, we've tried everything. I guess it's the night of the week, like, and who knows, you might strike gold. But I just think it would be pretty unlikely in general and it would probably cause more problems than it would fix.

Speaker 1:

What you should be focusing on instead is is this program so excellent, so irresistible and so effective that people will do anything to get there? And that kind of brings us to number three. Another thing not to do is to blame families and students for not coming. I think a youth pastor's default would be to say, well, their priorities aren't in the right place or they're not very spiritual. And it's like this heap of guilt onto people, and that's guilt is never an effective motivator, it's never like. I think it makes us feel better because, like, well, it's them, not me. But I think the truth is, if we create this program that's irresistible, effective and excellent, eventually people are going to tweak their schedules to fit that?

Speaker 1:

you know and we talked about that on the sports episode is yeah, maybe. Oh well, I have students who are like, oh, I can't wait to come back. I've been playing lacrosse. You know, I'll be back soon. Yeah, I mean, lacrosse is on Tuesday, there's nothing we can do about it, we'll see you when you come back.

Speaker 1:

But overall, you want people to say this is the youth group is the priority, and so it has to be worth it, and we can never eradicate their other commitments completely. But we can definitely make it a struggle for them to say, oh no, like what are we going to do? Or can we come late, or can we at least make it to half of it? Or who cares if you have to come in your uniform right after the game? You know, go back to the sports episode. Jeff will link it below and you can watch that and it kind of creates the mindset that we're talking about. But the bottom line for this episode is don't point the finger and don't play the blame game. Sometimes you can blame another church Well, it's because that church opened up. Well, church, well, it's because that church opened up. Well. Here's what I would suggest If there is a church in your vicinity that is effective and growing and buzzing. Go figure out what they're doing well Like if they're, it's easy to say, well, it's probably because they watered down the gospel.

Speaker 2:

How do you know?

Speaker 1:

You know like we want to just come up with some sinister reason for their success because we feel so insecure. However, why don't we go and learn from them? I promise you I visited I can't even count how many churches we visited when we were small and struggling and trying to figure things out and had no money and no staff and we're like we know we can grow, we're just. What are we missing? And we went up to LA and Orange County and Riverside and like, looked at all San Diego, looked at all these churches that were having super effective student ministries, were growing and we would meet their staff and tour their facility and talk to their leaders and see what was going on.

Speaker 1:

And you know, not everything translates. You don't say, okay, copy paste, but you start to maybe pick up ideas or vibes or cultural things that you're like ah, they think like this or oh, they treat people like this or they design things like this, and you just start to become a student of the places that are doing great ministry. Instead of folding your arms and huh, well, they're this. It's like well, humble pie, let's just go and see and see what we can learn. And now I have people come and tour my youth group and they're like, wow, can we just check out what you do? That would never have happened to me all those years ago. Nobody would be like what are you doing in this community?

Speaker 2:

center. How are you maintaining these 11 kids in a random community center? Well, let me tell you, it's not easy.

Speaker 1:

So see these posters of the food pyramid on the wall.

Speaker 2:

We can't touch those. They have to stay and this chalkboard over here.

Speaker 1:

Now this is a staple of our ministry and I would just try my best with what I had, but nobody was coming to tour my facility.

Speaker 2:

No one could find it.

Speaker 1:

It means oh man, I have some stories of my just low budget janky, rinky, dink stuff and just things I would try.

Speaker 1:

But that was the thing I was willing to try stuff like, and I like laugh so hard at some of the the harebrained ideas I had. But it was like, oh well, we're trying and learning and having fun along the way, and students are usually a good sport for stuff, and I came out with some really funny stories. So you know, just keep getting creative and trying and being, I guess, be so curious. I love what Kerry Newhoff says. He says don't be critical, be curious. And I think that's such a great mindset shift when you are in that kind of stagnant place.

Speaker 1:

So if we're not growing, let's get curious, not only curious about our own ministry, but curious about other ministries or curious about what. Can we do that we haven't Like? Can we just try something totally out of the box? And even though I've been in ministry for 21 years, I'm still trying new things all the time. I'm going to try something brand new this fall. That I got off the phone with my leader about today with my student leadership team, and I told her let's just see and then if we hate it, we'll go back to the way we did it before. Oh my gosh. Oh well, what if we strike gold? It's worth trying. So get very curious.

Speaker 2:

When you do try something, I think it's always a good idea to give it it's a fair amount of time to see if it's going to work, because sometimes the it might be a little more reactionary. Something's wrong. Let's try this that didn't work immediately, let's stop doing that. Yeah, and maybe it needed a little bit of time to be tweaked or to grow into the. You know habits and you know the rhythm of your, of your youth group, so don't be super quick to pull the plug on new ideas, kind of run their course, and sometimes you can tell immediately.

Speaker 2:

But I would say most of the time.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it might need a little bit of adjusting yes, I can think of many that was like I seen what I needed to see immediately, no immediately, no immediately no, but it didn't cost a whole lot. I don't think anyone's like remember when chaos tried that thing. Oh man, the students like forget about it like the next day.

Speaker 1:

so it was like whatever, yeah, good point. So number four a mistake that youth pastors make would be to not question their discipleship model. So we talked about that a little bit in number one of our people actually being challenged Are people growing in their faith? Is this just a place where they come to get saved and they just hear the same message over and over and over again, like we're always preaching the gospel? Every message should make a beeline to Jesus, you know, and there should be tons of opportunity for response.

Speaker 1:

However, we need to make sure our discipleship model is working, and I think a question sometimes that I ask a lot of my coaching clients is what is your discipleship model? Can you answer that? Do you have a concrete answer of? This is how we take people from A to B, from B to C, from C to D, like we're continuing to challenge them in their faith. How are we doing that? Because we want to make sure that we're the type of church and youth group that aren't just making. We're not like a decision factory. We're a disciple factory. Like decisions are a great start, but it's not the end.

Speaker 1:

It's like good, good start. I love that you acknowledge that you want to start a relationship with Jesus. Let's get to work.

Speaker 1:

You know this is a daily and we're going to teach you how to walk daily with him. Are we teaching students how to walk daily with Jesus? Because if not, they might get disillusioned of like I don't know. That's when people start to say things like I tried Christianity and it didn't work for me because there was nothing sticky about their faith, they didn't understand what being a disciple meant and that this is a like long game kind of thing of like walking every day. So our discipleship model is two things we want to get students plugged into small groups where they're doing life on life, with peers and two adults who can speak into their life and care about them. We want to have serving opportunities. Them. We want to have serving opportunities. We use our student leadership team to accomplish that, where we challenge them to serve inside and outside the church and learn biblical leadership principles, and so those, for us, are our discipleship methods. We have another one I've mentioned before, called the deep end, which is where students can do some extra biblical challenges if they want to learn how to dive into the Bible a little more.

Speaker 1:

We have a lot of kids that come to our youth group that don't even own a Bible. They don't know where to find one book of the Bible. When you give them a verse with two numbers, they have no clue what you're talking about and we teach them one's the chapter, one's the verse. Why don't you read this? Why don't you memorize this? Why don't you memorize the books of the Old Testament? So we give them opportunities to become more Bible literate. That's a good next step for some of those kids. So it's just making sure that we're giving people next step opportunities.

Speaker 1:

We sponsor a kid. Through Compassion International we encourage kids to give generously We've've talked about that before also giving of their time. And our local schools have fca programs, fellowship of christian athletes. We encourage our students to attend those and be light on their campuses. So there's all these ways where we're trying to get them outside of just. Well, you made a decision, bye, bye.

Speaker 1:

See you in heaven. You want to know what's funny? That reminds me One of my. I went to a junior college before I transferred to university for the rest of my degree and at my junior college I was in a communication class and on the last day of my communication 101 class this guy in my class found out I was a Christian. He was a Christian, we had a connection like friendship kind of thing, and the last day of class he just waves go bye, kristen, see you in heaven. It was like I'm never going to see you again. So I guess I'll see you in heaven. And wherever you are if you're listening, I will I will see you in heaven. So it was pretty cute, I don't know. That just reminded me of that so random.

Speaker 1:

I know Funny little story for you.

Speaker 1:

Hey friend, I just wanted to interrupt this episode for a second to let you know about an awesome opportunity for you and your youth ministry. So last year we launched our course and coaching program called Youth Ministry Growth Accelerator and the response has been amazing. So we've helped tons of youth pastors grow the size and health of their youth ministry and we want to invite you to be a part of that as well, because maybe you're just sort of feeling stuck in a rut. Maybe you don't know what to do next, maybe you just have a vague plan in your mind of what you're doing and you want some real help to get you from where you are to where you want to go. So if that sounds like something you've been looking for, go to growyouryouthministrycom and check it out for more details. All right, let's get back to the episode.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and then lastly, number five what youth pastors should not do is not be willing to change, because that's how we do things. So again, kerry Newhoff I love his leadership stuff and he says sometimes churches get too attached to the method and they forget the mission. And so they're like, well, this is how we do things, but they forget that the method over time needs to change to continue to reach the mission, which never changes. The mission is to point people to the source of truth, the way, the truth, the life, jesus Christ right. That is the mission and always will be.

Speaker 2:

Methods are allowed to change though they kind of need to.

Speaker 1:

Right. But like he has this funny phrase where he says you can smell the age of the church when you walk in, and he's like some churches smell like 1987, some churches smell like 1947. And I'm like, yeah, they have that like museum smell that. You're like huh. And so our methods are allowed to change and still be totally different is good, and it's not like we're compromising anything as long as we're not saying, well, I mean, there's lots of ways to heaven. Jesus is just one way, because that's what people want to hear. It's like whoa, whoa. We're never gonna change that. But how do we get people to engage? Those methods have got to change over time, and so if you're the kind of person who's like, well, this is how we like it, I would challenge you to say well, who is we? You know, if we're not reaching anyone new and it's just the eight of you enjoying all these methods that you've had for years and years, it might be time again to challenge yourself, to take that step back and say what can we learn that other people are doing that are effective, are fresh, to be kind of like a student of the culture, a student of your ministry, a student of your community and it's like what do people want? What are they craving? Want what are they craving?

Speaker 1:

One thing that we did was we create such a priority on children and students, and not that we leave older people out there's always stuff for them but we do events and things with a focus toward the person that has four children, all different ages and stages of life. Are we making it so easy for them to get here on a weekend? Do we have something that their kids are going to be begging to come back to? Because we want to attract young families in our community, because we tend to have, historically, an older community where we live. It was always known as, like a retirement community, and I think that's really changed in the last 10 years. Probably. We see all these new families coming in and so we want to reach them of what does a young family need from us? And so you could take that for your youth group too.

Speaker 1:

What do the kids in this community need from us? And again, that's a question that maybe only you can answer. Depending on, like, homeschool to public school ratio, there's all kinds of things in there that people want from a church based on those demographics, so you really have to know, like who even is available to reach and what are they looking for from us and are we doing that job? And so the bottom line question is always are we being effective for who we are trying to reach?

Speaker 1:

You know I joked earlier about me and that leader calling the junior hires our clients. But if the junior hires, or the high schoolers, the students, are your clients, what are they looking for? Because what we have to give them is so valuable that we have to make sure that we're being strategic, of capturing their interest, meeting their felt needs and figuring out what makes them so excited to be a part of what we're doing. You know you never want parents to feel like they have to drag their kids to youth group or church, but that kid should be dragging their parents of like.

Speaker 1:

We have to go, you know, and that does happen. So don't be afraid to change up your methods. There's a lot of things that I have done that are not my taste or not my preference, are not my personality necessarily, but I've just learned that so many of the methods are like you just have to become unattached to them, because then they'll change in another five years you know, like everyone's doing it, and you need to be willing to make those changes when the time comes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think I've quoted him before. But when Craig Groeschel says we will do anything short of sin to reach people for the gospel, I'm like, yeah, I mean when we hold, I mean it sounds extreme, but we could even make a methodology and idol, right If it is so sacred. And it cannot be changed. And we've always played organ music for the junior hires and we shall, but that was new at one point.

Speaker 2:

So, what?

Speaker 1:

what does it matter? The? The mission is reaching people for Jesus. Just don't ever forget that. So be willing to abandon something you personally love, or being willing to embrace something that you don't actually love. You know people are so against Instagram and social media. It's like, of course it's awful. Could we redeem it for something amazing? Absolutely, you know it's just a tool. It's like, of course it's awful. Could we redeem it for something amazing? Absolutely, you know it's just a tool. It's not bad or good Secular music, I remember.

Speaker 2:

I like how you're using it is the defining factor of it's good or not.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like I had a leader once get mad at me because I had mixed secular music and Christian music in the same playlist and she was, like this is youth group, this is church, like you should only be playing Christian music. And I said, yeah, but what about the kid who comes in these doors? Can you imagine like their brain lighting up a little bit, cause there's a song that they recognize? I'm not going to put on something inappropriate, duh, because he says anything short of sin, but why not put on something catchy that they know that they're excited about, to show them, hey, like we see you and we're not like, we only listen to.

Speaker 1:

You know Christian music and you better learn it if you're going to, you know it's like we've got to be willing to change things up to reach those who are trying to reach.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, we will link those. I will link those episodes below. One is do numbers matter? And yes, they do, but we have. It's all about a story that it's telling. Make sure you watch that episode. And also we did that whole episode on sports versus youth group how to win the battle of priorities for your students. So check those out. We're going to do a community Before we do that.

Speaker 1:

I wanted to tell them. So two questions as we close out for them to be thinking of number one.

Speaker 1:

What do we believe that might need to be changed? Is there a belief we're holding about church or youth group or the way we do things that needs to be challenged? Does our thinking need to be challenged, because that's often where it starts? Are we thinking about this the correct way? And then, kind of a fun one what's one new thing we can try? You know summer's coming up. What's one new thing we can try? You know summer's coming up, I don't know. Just try one new fun thing this summer that you think is the direction that you need to go, not just like, uh, we're gonna have a balloon artist.

Speaker 1:

That would be new ideas are welcome what is that really accomplishing, what we're trying to accomplish?

Speaker 2:

So what's new?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, who knows who am I?

Speaker 2:

Who am I to say Don't shoot down the idea. Who am I to say, yeah, put in the comment section below. We'll add that for the question of the day. So make sure you guys answer that below if you're watching on YouTube. All right, this is a community comment of the day. This comes from Matt Standifer, who says I always appreciate the content you both provide here. It is both inspirational and instructive and it's encouraged me on building a long lasting staple in the community type ministry. Going into my third year now, in a small town of 2000 population, my wife and I are doing youth ministry bivocationally. My wife is a stay at home mom of four girls homeschooling, so it's a lot but totally worth it. Just wanted to say thanks and to keep it up Woo, I love that. That's awesome. We appreciate that and we will be praying for your wife and all the four kids and homeschooling and all that, I bet she's a rock star, she's a total rock star.

Speaker 2:

Thank you guys, so much for watching and listening and we'll see you next time.

Speaker 1:

Do numbers really matter in youth ministry? Do numbers really matter in youth ministry? And if they do, how so Numbers Do they matter? Find out today on 60 Minutes.