Ministry Coach: Youth Ministry Tips & Resources

Not Getting Hired in Youth Ministry? This Might Be Why...

• Kristen Lascola • Episode 247

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Are you ready to grow the size and health of your youth ministry? Check out
GrowYourYouthMinistry.com *** Feeling called to youth ministry but can't seem to get hired at a church? You're not alone! This episode uncovers the uncomfortable yet crucial reasons why some youth ministry-minded individuals struggle to get hired as a youth pastor despite their passion.  Whether you're actively seeking a student pastor position or you are involved in hiring for your church, this conversation offers valuable perspective on what makes someone student ministry-ready. 

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📕 Book Mentioned in this Episode:

The Proximity Principle by Ken Coleman


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You may also enjoy these episodes:

(#026) Increasing Your Value, Worth & Influence: Heart, Hunger, Hustle

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Speaker 1:

Today we're taking an honest look at some reasons why you might not be getting hired in youth ministry.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we give you weekly tips and tactics to help you fast track the growth and health of your youth ministry.

Speaker 1:

My name is Jeff Laskola and this is is Kristen Laskola, and today we're going to talk to those of you who are trying to become youth pastors or maybe this would be helpful if you already are a pastor and you have some say in hiring. It's kind of a touchy subject, I guess, but we're going to talk about a few reasons why you may not be getting hired as a youth pastor. I've known a lot of people over the years that have that dream and they feel like they have that calling on their life and they really want to enter the ministry. They want to be pastors, which, like, what a noble desire and cause and all of that. And sometimes it just doesn't happen and that can be frustrating, especially if you feel like it's been an extended period of time and you're still not landing the youth pastor job and you're confused why not? What is it? And obviously you know I'm going to talk from my perspective and different people I've met and why some aren't getting hired.

Speaker 1:

But I think we also have to keep in mind, like God calls people into ministry and God calls people Okay, let me say that again, god calls everybody into ministry. Some of us are just happen to be in vocational ministry and are paid to do the traditional youth pastor pastor job that we're thinking of. However, every single Christian is called into ministry, so I love the way our pastor puts it. He's like you're doing ministry on the job site, you're doing ministry in the office, you're doing ministry to your neighbors, like if you're a Christian you're in ministry. But I know what you mean. Some of you are like well duh, but I want to work at a church.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

So I get that and God really does open doors, close doors. He is in charge of leadership. And I don't know definitively. I couldn't look at someone and say this is exactly why you're not getting hired. But all I know is that it is a God process and I can speak to some of the practical things that, hey, have you ever thought of this? Or maybe we need to be honest with ourselves about this, or whatever. So number one I would say this is the most common and that's why I'm going to start with.

Speaker 1:

It is because I feel like people who want to be youth pastors, a lot of times they don't make it because they want to skip steps two through 99. And that's an arbitrary number. Just for example's sake, let's say there's a hundred steps to becoming a youth pastor and you're on step one, and that is you maybe either have put in an application or you've started getting your feet wet in youth ministry, like you've started volunteering or something like that. You have some involvement or interest in youth ministry. Well, step 100 would be you have landed the job, you are the youth pastor at the church that you're looking at, or whatever. But what about steps two through 99? There's a lot in there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, list those steps. What List all those steps right now, please? Okay, step two Take notes.

Speaker 1:

You're really putting me on the spot, jeff, just kidding.

Speaker 1:

But it's a metaphor, it's figurative okay, because it's like there's a lot in between my desire and me getting the job right and the way that I've watched a lot of young people operate is I want to be a youth pastor, I should be a youth pastor. In the end it's like, wow, there was a lot of steps in between that you may have missed, because this isn't like your typical job. Like I want to work at Starbucks, turn in my application, I work at Starbucks. Now it's like this is different. It is kind of a process I would say like one doesn't just wake up and decide I want to go into youth ministry and start turning in applications at every church in their town or in their city, right, like there's a process of learning and refinement and mentorship and spiritual, emotional and character growth. There's learning how to do it by working alongside someone. There's a volunteer aspect, maybe an internship aspect. It's not just like you go from zero to 100, but I think everyone's like yeah, yeah, yeah, anyways. But I know I meant to do this and.

Speaker 1:

I just want to preach, put me on stage. It's like the process of becoming a youth pastor is just that, it's becoming a youth pastor. I don't think that they just exist. I think they often become that through a series. Like you, I won't list all 100 steps, but no, just two through 99.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

Number two get involved. Like it would be like if interest were step one, involvement would be step two, like volunteering. Like then let's see if they have an unpaid internship that you can learn a little bit more ministry skills, Then maybe they do have a paid internship, Maybe they have a directorship that you can be a part of. Maybe you find a ministry mentor and you meet with them, you know, a couple times a month. Then maybe you're taking some. If you can't afford a seminary degree, you could do a certificate program and learn some more theology and then you take a leadership course or you take an assessment to define your gifts and skills. There's a lot of things in there that start to develop you into becoming a pastor. You don't just skip it all and then throw up your hands and say I guess I'm not meant for ministry, Nobody's hiring me.

Speaker 1:

This could take years of becoming, becoming that person, so will you probably have to work also? Yes, like, just because you're interested in ministry does not mean a church is obligated to pay you a living wage while you're in process of getting like ready for that big next step. And I think we're just sometimes in this hurry of like I got it when we don't, because if you're in ministry, you know, like if you're already there, then this might not apply to you, but this is something you can teach the young ones coming up who want to work in ministry or have a dream like I want to do what you do or you know. And then I heard this great term the other day called pace manipulation, which I was like, yes, that makes so much sense, and it's the idea of trying to go fast instead of being faithful and not giving yourself the time to develop and learn.

Speaker 1:

And if you're in such a hurry, you're in such a hurry, respectfully. I will need to question your motivation for doing this, Because if you really feel called to the ministry and you know that that is the path for you, I feel like if your motivation is to serve the church, feed the sheep and love the bride of Christ and love the bride of Christ, you will put in the work and the effort to be refined yourself, be readied, be developed by people who have gone before you. But if you are rushing and you just want a microphone, and you just want influence and you want to be visible and you want leadership.

Speaker 1:

I would highly question if ministry is for you to feel valuable, to feel significant, to feel seen, to heal some part of yourself, or if this is really about the church, and I think this is just my opinion. I think that's why, a lot of times, people who were never looking for it end up being in ministry because God is doing something almost without their knowledge and they just end up walking through an open door by accident.

Speaker 1:

And I was like I don't know how I got here, but I guess I'm here and the ones who are beating down the door or clawing at it and very impatient. It usually doesn't work out.

Speaker 1:

And I would have to think it's not because they're bad people, but it's a very different condition of the heart to be motivated and willing to put in the time. You know, it kind of reminds me, as I'm talking, as the illustration of, you know, leah and Jacob, and Rachel and Jacob, and because he loved her, he was willing to wait and it didn't seem like any time had gone by at all, because his deep, deep love for Rachel was just kind of like what other choice do I have? Of course, seven years. You got it. 14 years, okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Because she's worth the wait and I think in a sense you know that loosely, obviously it's not a perfect fit, but loosely illustrates like when you truly love something, not yourself you can be more patient because of the object of your love. So, loving ministry, loving more than that, just loving the Lord you know of, like well, what is his path? What is his timing? What is his? What is he trying to do in my heart and mind? Where is he leading and being patient with that? Because you, when you want to run fast, you're not always running faithfully, because you don't want to outpace what god is trying to do in you before you're ready to pour out and do something with them yeah with the sheep, with the church, all of that kind of going off jumping off on your starbucks illustration.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure there's probably people listening or watching that have been a barista in a Starbucks before. Maybe you can speak into this. If you're watching on YouTube, put it in the comment section below, but you can probably walk in and give a resume and you probably could get hired. Obviously, more experience is better, but I'm sure there is a way for someone like I've never even had a sip of coffee before I have no idea, but they would train you.

Speaker 2:

Sure, and that doesn't really exist in the youth pastor world in the sense of like we're going to hire you I know you've never done it before but we're going to train you. I feel, like most churches, it doesn't happen. There's very little, if anything. There's very little mentorship or whatever. It's kind of like throw you in the deep end and figure out how to swim Right. And if you're going again off the off the Starbucks illustration if you were to look at that and say you're hired, well, I don't know how to make coffee, good luck. You're like wow, I really wish I had that training you know, to really get me to, because otherwise it's like man, your coffee is awful. No offense, offense, starbucks. I'm just saying the person who can't make coffee would be like this is bad.

Speaker 2:

You don't know what you're doing there's so many skills you haven't learned, you can't do this yet yeah so what you're kind of describing all the way leading up to hey, you're hired, is that training process. Unfortunately it's not in this typical starbucks way of we're paying you and training you working alongside other leaders.

Speaker 1:

Like the training is, I volunteer and I'm starting to kind of understand how this works right now can I, you know, go a step further and learn a little bit more of the behind the scenes? Or could I help with an event, or could I help you know what I mean, and you're biting off a little bit as you go. And then by the time you're ready to be a youth pastor, you have like years of these skills like in your wake that help you know like and nothing can totally prepare you for it.

Speaker 1:

You're going to deal with issues for the first time, but at least you've had that slow build to learn. Alongside I have my associate, pastor Caleb. He's been working with me for five years and he says I still don't feel ready. If you were to leave, I don't want to be the youth pastor because I still don't feel ready. You know like there's so much stuff you do and I'm like, oh, but you'd figure it out. You know it's just, that's the. That's the thing. We're never totally ready. But when you work alongside someone for years or months, whatever you've got, it starts to develop the necessary skills in you.

Speaker 2:

You would probably know this, but is it John Maxwell that has the book about the proximity principle or the proximity? Basically it's saying when you're near, and kind of like absorbing leadership when you're near leaders and kind of gleaning off of them, and it's just may not be something that you can take a test and read a book and learn, necessarily, but when you're there, in the presence of that, and that is so true Rabbit trail.

Speaker 1:

Side note to all my female youth pastors that's why in the early years of my ministry it was so hard to be a female youth pastor, because I missed out on that. Like there was proximity among the men, you know, and they were learning skills like kind of just catching them from each other. They were learning the language of this thing and it was hard for me to get in there because I didn't have the same proximity and in the same ways and so when you're kind of out on your own, you miss out on the development. I think that's why my learning curve was steeper.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I feel like I learned just eventually, but at a much slower pace because, I didn't have a proximity person you know for a very long time, so it's really important and then, kind of within that, you know we're talking about wanting to skip all these steps. You know I often talk about the sugar versus the salt of ministry and a lot of people want the sugar and they're like, oh my gosh, how fun. I want to get up and give a sermon and people will tell me that like I feel called to preach, but they don't want to serve, they don't want, they just want to get up and tell you some stuff.

Speaker 1:

It's like that's not really what we do, Like write a blog or go to Toastmasters or something like go be a professional speech giver, but they just feel this burning like I could teach, or they're very critical of people who teach. I could have said that better.

Speaker 1:

And it's like I doubt it Like it's. It's a communication. We've done a lot of episodes on. That is really difficult. But they see that sugar of like oh, I want to be the smart, look like the smartest person in the room with the power, with the microphone, with the stage, or maybe they are high energy and they're like Ooh, that'd be fun to lead a game and hype up a room and, you know, be that central figure.

Speaker 1:

And they just see that sugar, but they forget about the salt it's like the kid barfed in the in the bathroom. Someone's got to clean it up or all the planning that took to get there and the logistics, and then the hard conversations you had to have with people and the serving I mean and the clean I mean even just like manual labor, like I mean mean up until we moved into this new building.

Speaker 1:

I've told you guys before like I was still coming in on my off day to mop the youth room floor mop the barf clean the bathroom and you know there's a lot that are just the nuts and bolts and I call that the salt that it just takes to make this thing run, and the sugar is like maybe 10% of your job. But then people see that and they're like, yes, that's what I want to do.

Speaker 2:

It's like which is also why people, like usually the kids, think well, what do you? What's your real job?

Speaker 1:

Because, you're only here on Sunday and then one midweek day and that's it there. And then one midweek day and that's it Right. And so just remember, like a great phrase is to always keep in mind is serving comes before influence. You know, I feel like people putter out of serving very quickly. It's just like they don't want to work hard, they don't want to come back and ask like what else can I do or how else can I help. It's just like, well, when do I get to lead? And again, I feel like those are the kind of people I hate to say it that don't get hired in youth ministry.

Speaker 1:

Because I think if you're not self-aware of it, other people are, and I can spot it from a mile away now and I don't hire those kind of people. It's because, honestly, most of what we do is actual work. So I'm looking for someone who can work and also happens to be great on stage and is willing to learn how to teach and put some things into practice and is teachable. I can't discount that. I want someone who's like dynamic, upfront, but at the same time, most of what I do is work.

Speaker 2:

So do you think that also plays into how to do that? Most youth pastors only last 18 months or two and a half years, or whatever the statistic of the day is, but it's a short period of time. Do you think that is because some of the people you're describing do end up getting hired, get into the job, realize there's a lot of work and it's not just being on stage and being the could be? Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I think that youth ministry, unfortunately and this is painting with a broad brush this is not all of us. I'm in the boat so I can't be offended. You know I'm here too. But it really attracts people who need a lot of attention and need to be praised and have public accolades and have their ego boosted by being, and I think that's why sometimes we see these catastrophic moral failures of these pastors and we all like, oh my gosh, not again, because there was something beyond their love. It was like the motivation was wrong from the jump.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

And so I just feel, like ministry in general, the stage does something to people and it tends to attract people who might need that and are craving that and then, like you said, so maybe they don't last very long because they realize I mean, that's not try to give your best message in front of a bunch of 13 year olds. They will humble you so quick, you know, and sometimes you straight gold and they're like, oh, my face is melting off. That was so good.

Speaker 2:

I had a student just real quick One time after I gave a message he was. He was said he'd close in prayer and in this prayer he said God, we thank you for this message, even though we didn't really learn anything. And I was said God, we thank you for this message, even though we didn't really learn anything, and I was like, wait, I can hear you.

Speaker 1:

I remember that, even though we didn't really learn anything.

Speaker 2:

I learned something.

Speaker 1:

Oh, junior hires man, they will humble you so quick, like I said.

Speaker 1:

And then sometimes they come up to me after a message and they're like, oh my gosh, thank you so much that was and you're like, oh, I could probably live off of that for a while, because you realize, as a youth pastor, by and large it is thankless. You know what I mean. Like I could give you my very best and they'll be like, mehh, you know, but someone got it and even though they're not acting like they appreciate it, I know God's doing something with it.

Speaker 1:

So I'm playing the long game of like I know that there's some kind of spiritual stuff going on and that I can't access or reach, but that God is doing something with these words. So, yeah, that's a good point. It could be why. And then, if you're within a church and you're hoping to get hired in ministry, I would say another reason you might not be getting hired to be a youth pastor is this mentality of. So there is this whole very healthy thing of boundaries. Right, we have boundaries. We don't want to be used, we don't want to overdo it, we don't. We're always scared of burnout.

Speaker 1:

That's what everyone's always freaked out I'm going to burn out, I'm going to burn out, I'm going to burn out. So we've created a culture of very strict boundaries. No, my time, no, no, no. Protect, protect, protect. That's a good thing mostly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

But what I've noticed too and I've heard other people speak on this and I tend to agree is that I think we've gone so far the other way, to where people are very unwilling to do anything. That is, that's not my job, that's not in my job description, you're not paying me to do that and that gets pastors.

Speaker 2:

That's their whole. Job is usually what you're not being paid to do Exactly.

Speaker 1:

And in ministry specifically, that gets really sticky because ministry is serving, and so I feel like it gets like, when this entitlement attitude starts to creep in, that people are unwilling to help in areas outside of their department, things that aren't their job, I'm off the clock, I'm not willing to do that. It's a huge turnoff, and then when people go to hire, they're not going to think of you, they're going to think of the person who did exactly what Jesus did and laid down his life for the mission, and I'm not saying so.

Speaker 1:

Who cares about spending time with your family? You should be a workaholic, obviously, but we do need to be careful of over self-protection to the point where we've lost sight that this is also serving. Whether or not it's your job, it is still serving. Even though I get paid to do ministry, I have to remember that it is still serving. So when I'm asked to do something that doesn't directly benefit me or my ministry there's a season where oh, I'm so busy with camp I have to say no. But I need to also discipline myself to say yes when I can and not just say, well, not my problem.

Speaker 1:

And I think that's very tempting in this like strict boundary thing, and you'll be. I believe, when you're very generous with yourself, when you're very generous with your time, when you're very generous with your talents and abilities, it actually does come back to you, because that is a sign of someone who like kind of the faithful with little, faithful with much, someone who can be trusted to fulfill the mission, that they're a team player, that they're willing to help, and isn't that what a pastor is you know, and so it's like I want to be a youth pastor, but I don't want to do anything that I don't want to do.

Speaker 1:

It's like you're not going to make it because I do things I don't want to do all the time. So you just have to get very used to that idea that it's about the big picture, not just about you. And where do you fit into all of that Within reason, what can you give and how can you be generous with yourself? And you know, don't underestimate. I was having a conversation with a coworker the other day and he's very good at his job and I said isn't it amazing, the power of just doing your job with excellence over a period of time? I feel like that alone, if you can do that, puts you in the top 5% of people. You know, because here's the thing a lot of people want to be on staff or like have a title or, but they don't actually want to.

Speaker 1:

They want to get by with doing the absolute bare minimum even in the church, even Christians, especially Christians sometimes, and it's like they just think, ah, it's not really about the work, it's more about just us palling around and having a good time. You know, it's like no, but this still has to get done. And so I feel like people don't get hired when they just see it as, ah, let's just, let's just get by with doing as little as possible, which kind of piggybacks on the last thing we were talking about, but the power of simply doing your job, whatever it is. Even if you're just a volunteer, doing it with excellence over an extended period of time, you will create a feeding frenzy for yourself, and that's what this guy did. He just did an excellent job over a period of time, and now everyone wants to hire him for everything, and it's like anybody can do that, by the way.

Speaker 1:

Like you just went the extra mile every chance you got, you just elevated the experience for everyone. Every chance you got, you just like thought outside the box and wanted to create a space of excellence. Every single chance you got you took initiative. And these are all qualities like the ones I'm naming right now, that we at my church call a big L leader, and that's what churches want to hire. You're either a big L leader or a little L leader, and a little L leader still leads and they're still necessary and we need them, but they're just more of a managerial type of role where, as a big L leader has initiative and vision and big picture and excellence and motivation and a hunger and a hustle, and they're making things happen.

Speaker 1:

And I will say it as often as I can till the day I die, because this is my one of my favorite leadership principles from Craig Groeschel. He says leaders don't need to be told what to do. They instinctively find important things to do, and I think that is the kind of person that people want to hire, especially churches. And then, lastly, another reason you might not be getting hired at a church is it might be the wrong church and it might be the wrong position for you. So just because you, so you could get hired at a church doing something besides being a youth pastor. There's other jobs and that might fit your gift set a little bit better. You might look at that microphone stage teaching thing and think it's for you, but it just might not be, unfortunately. But there's other positions that are no less important, that are still creating the fullness of the bride of Christ, and we need that.

Speaker 1:

You know, the one body, many parts we need it all and you don't always get to choose what you are. And we need that. You know the one body, many parts, we need it all and you don't always get to choose what you are. And that's the hard thing is because and you know, the Bible even says that like you look at that part and you're like, well, I wish I could hear, like, why can I only see you know? And it's like, yeah, but we need you. So just lean into that gifting and you'll be happier. The body of Christ will benefit. Like this is better for you and for everyone to be honest with what your actual gifts are.

Speaker 1:

Maybe you're not the meant to be the youth pastor, but maybe you're meant to do youth ministry, just not as the big L leader, and that's okay. How many big leaders can we have in one church? I mean, there's other roles you know like not. So be open to that and then also be open to. I had a guy who really, really, really, really, really, really wanted to go into ministry and he I said I, I can see it in you. You know you love the Lord, you connect with students, you have a passion for truth. Here's what I, what I will say is based on your DNA profile, makeup, how you do ministry. You're going to do it really well, just not here.

Speaker 2:

I can. I said I've worked here long enough A better fit at a different church To just know A different, different vibe and I could even name the church yeah, I told him I said you know what?

Speaker 1:

they would pee their pants. They'd be so excited because you were meant for them. Right, I would really go apply there. And that church needs a youth pastor too. You know what I mean. So we can't always just like create this menu for ourselves Like, um, yes, I'll have this church and this role and this salary and these hours and thank you Jesus, and come back with my perfectly curated ministry career.

Speaker 1:

You might not be a good fit for that particular church. You might not be a particular fit for that role. And so, being willing to have these honest conversations with people in leadership at the churches you're looking at of like, hey, if you don't see me in this role, where do you see me? Or do you see my gifts better suited for a different church environment? You all know churches are so different. We all love the same God.

Speaker 2:

We all serve the same Jesus, but they're different, right, we all?

Speaker 1:

love the same God In a good way. We all serve the same Jesus, but they're different.

Speaker 2:

And they should be, because you wouldn't want it to be all the same, because it's not going to speak to every single person.

Speaker 1:

A hundred, and so figure out where. Where are you sitting? Yes, because that church needs you, that church is waiting for you. That's what I was trying to tell my friend. I said that church is like begging, like for you you could be the answer to their prayer.

Speaker 1:

Like they've been waiting for you this whole time and you might be the best fit there. So sometimes we just have to be honest with ourselves. Like you know what? I could try my absolute best, have a pristine resume, have tons of ministry experience, but I still might not be a good fit for that particular church because, as we know, they're all so different and thank God they are. We need those. We all worship the same God, same Jesus, same tenants of faith, but just the culture inside with this particular group of people in this particular city and time and history, it's just all very different and and it might you might need to kind of turn your attention to what else is out there if it's not happening for you at that church.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, make sure you guys check out an episode we did. It's called heart hunger and hustle.

Speaker 1:

You kind of touched on it for a second and make sure you check that out.

Speaker 2:

It kind of just describes what it takes to be a good leader, specifically in youth ministry. All right, let's do a community comment of the day here real quick. Okay, I like these. This comes from the Siv Div who says Binging, all your episodes loving it so far, keep them coming.

Speaker 1:

We will every Thursday. You can count on us.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, siv Div, we appreciate it. We appreciate you on us. Thank you, sivdiv, we appreciate it. We appreciate you. We appreciate you guys watching and listening and we'll see you next time. Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we give you weekly stuff. My name is Jeff Laskola and this is Kristen.

Speaker 1:

Do numbers really matter? In youth ministry Maybe, numbers, what are they?