Ministry Coach: Youth Ministry Tips & Resources

How to Revive a Dying Youth Ministry

• Kristen Lascola • Episode 260

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Check out our new partnership with Onward: Youth & Young Adult Pastor Cohort https://www.onwardleader.com/the-cohort  *** Are you afraid your youth ministry might be dying?  Every youth pastor dreads the moment when they realize their student ministry might be on life support. The energy is gone, attendance is dwindling, and that spark of spiritual growth seems to have dimmed to barely a flicker. Whether you've inherited a struggling youth group or watched your once-thriving program slowly fade, that feeling of failure can be paralyzing.  But what if the path to revival is clearer than you think?  Before you can apply the defibrillator paddles to your youth ministry, you need an accurate diagnosis.  Ready to breathe new life into your dying youth ministry? Let's go!!!

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You may also enjoy these episodes:

(#085) How to Do Youth Ministry at a Dying Church

(#259) Top 10 Bible Resources for Youth Ministry

(#256) Best Practices for Emailing the Parents of Your Youth Ministry Students


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Speaker 1:

Are we meeting their needs and do we have positive relationships? That will take you so far. What is your specific data telling you about the program? Do you feel like your youth ministry is dying? Then stick around, because today we're going to give you practical ways of how you can revive it.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where I give you weekly tips and tactics to help you fast-track the growth and health of your youth ministry.

Speaker 1:

My name is Jeff Laskola and this is Kristen Laskola, and today we are talking about how to revive a dying youth group. So sad Can be a very discouraging time when you feel like you've either walked into a dying youth group, like maybe you're new and it's just not thriving, or maybe you sense that the youth ministry you're already leading is just not it right now and you're struggling and we've talked about this before. As youth pastors we start to take this stuff personally. We think something's wrong with us, we are horrible people and even like on a kind of just simpler level, you feel like nobody likes me, like nobody likes me, everybody hates me.

Speaker 1:

I guess I'll go Yorm. So it can be a tough season to get out of because the sadness, the insecurity, the depression, they kind of all start building up and you just sort of feel disabled in it all, like I can't do anything. I don't even know where to start or what to do. And we're going to help you today kind of get through that and hopefully come out the other side and see that there are things you can do and ways to kind of like jump start, put a little adu aed, what are they called?

Speaker 2:

they're like yeah, I know what you mean.

Speaker 1:

It's not adu, though put it adu on here and rent it out and make a little side income.

Speaker 2:

Aud ae aed, and I don't know what it stands for.

Speaker 1:

It's a defibrillator.

Speaker 2:

Defibrillator yeah, isn't it? Aed.

Speaker 1:

I think so. I feel like there's a U in there. I'm going to say aortic electronic defibrillator?

Speaker 2:

I don't know.

Speaker 1:

All right, that was irrelevant. It was supposed to be a simple illustration that we moved past very quickly. However, here we are. So here's step one. Step one is if you're new to this youth group and it's dying and you're like trying to diagnose what's going on, that needs to be your first step. I've got to diagnose the problem, or the problems. Chances are it's not just one thing, chances are it's probably a few different things. So what you need to do is put on your detective hat and get really, really curious. You need to ask a lot of questions and this doesn't apply just if you're new. If you're in a church and you sense the youth group is dying and you've been there for a while, it still applies. So you need to ask questions and the type of questions you need to ask depends on the group you're asking, and there's a few key groups that you need to start to interview and investigate and bring together for groups and feedback, and that would be leaders you know like whoever your team is the team that's there?

Speaker 1:

Who do you work alongside in the youth ministry? The other adults, the volunteers. You need to ask them a ton of questions. You need to ask the parents a lot of questions and you need to ask the students a lot of questions. So here's what we're trying to figure out by asking these questions. So why aren't students engaging with what we're doing? And obviously that's a very complicated question and everyone will probably have a different opinion.

Speaker 2:

And how would you pitch that question so as to get to the heart of the problem and not just kind of get arbitrary? Well, this is my opinion, you know.

Speaker 1:

And the opinions, actually, you know Well, and the opinions, actually, you know I'm going to talk about how to digest the data in a second, but opinions actually might start telling a story you know.

Speaker 1:

So you can kind of say like do you feel like our youth group is essential for your? Let's say you're talking to the parents for your child. Is our youth group at this church essential? Why or why not? Is it essential to your child's um spiritual development? Why or why not? What is the overall feedback your child gives you when they come home? If it's hard to get your child to come, why do they say that is?

Speaker 2:

because, I've.

Speaker 1:

I've talked to youth pastors before that say parents are like dragging their kids to youth group, so the child must be giving you some feedback. Why don't you like?

Speaker 2:

it.

Speaker 1:

What is missing, what's going on. And so, hearing that from a parent's perspective, if they're willing to tell you, and then maybe talking through like, hey, we had an event, what was it that would prompt you to sign up or not sign up for an event If you're having trouble coming or getting people to come to your events, is this program a priority for your family? Why or why not? And then, like talking to your leaders, are you excited to serve here? Is this a highlight of your week or does this is kind of always this looming Wednesday night that you're dreading why. You know, and I think you're going to have to be really brave to ask these questions and it's going to be difficult, because if you already feel like you're down, then asking these questions can kick you while you're down.

Speaker 2:

Expose you to more.

Speaker 1:

Exactly, and I was teaching my students this morning. We were talking about getting out of our comfort zone for the sake of the gospel. I was telling them like, hey, one time our kid, who was two at the time, woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't breathe. And I woke you up and we were freaking out. We called 911, go out to the ambulance. They ended up taking her to the hospital and it wasn't until I got inside that I realized I look like a disaster, like I'm in my pajamas, no shoes on, no makeup, on my side bun is melting off my head, my hair is frayed and everywhere. I looked awful, but the urgency of the situation superseded my need to like oh, do these shoes?

Speaker 2:

Matt hold on.

Speaker 1:

I know you can't breathe, but I can't find my earrings. You know, because you realize the urgency of the situation supersedes your comfort.

Speaker 2:

To put that in the context of what we're talking about today and to close the loop on that, she was fine, it was croup. Yes, it was croup.

Speaker 1:

And it was very scary because two year olds can't communicate well how they're feeling anyways. It was like, okay, it's going to be difficult for you to maybe hear, but the only way to get through is through. You know what I mean. Like, if we want to get through this season, you might have to sacrifice your comfort, how you look to others and even to yourself, because the urgency of the situation is we're on life support here. So, yes, I might look foolish because I'm exposed now to feedback and criticism and things that might be difficult for me to hear, but the only way to improve is I have to hear them, I have to understand them and put them all together and and digest. Like what does this mean?

Speaker 1:

So, when do you get some of those answers? And that could be like hey, we're having a parent breakfast and I'm inviting all the parents and I have some questions. You could send out a survey, if you don't want to do it face to face, and hopefully get some responses back. You could do a leader night at your house and talk to the leaders. You could do a little small group with the students and get their feedback on what do you love about youth group, what do you not love about youth group? Would you invite a friend here? Why or why not? What areas do you look forward to? What areas do you dread? Is this the highlight of your week? Why or why not? So then you put it all together and you start to look for patterns Because, like you said, sometimes people will have like a one-off opinion. Like I remember a kid once is like I think it's just like so boring how you only have pepperoni and cheese pizza.

Speaker 2:

I was like okay well, I don't care.

Speaker 1:

You know, go get your own pizza. But if you start to notice things that are more of a pattern of like everyone says, it's at a really inconvenient time. Sunday night is a family night. We're getting ready for school the next day. It just doesn't fit with our schedule.

Speaker 1:

Or maybe someone is saying, or you're hearing leaders say we never know what's going on, we don't feel like ready when we come and you're hard to get a hold of, like those are things that's like, ah, if like one or two, three people are starting to say this, then maybe this is what you put. You kind of take the data, maybe, put it in an Excel sheet or some kind of document and categorize it. Okay, this is the complaints we have about program. This is the complaints we have about communication. This is the complaints we have about schedule. This is the complaints we have about relationships or lack thereof or whatever it might be, and you start to kind of like you're an investigator of your own ministry of, like, what is the data that you've gathered telling you?

Speaker 1:

And this process could take a while, and so being really patient with trying to ask good questions, trying to touch base with as many people as possible, trying to elicit really honest responses you know honest responses, you know. So sometimes, if it has to do with you, people are going to be kind of hesitant to say, which obviously I think we all are trying to save people's feelings. So try to ask things that don't have to do with you but have to do with something more objective you know, like the program or the schedule or whatever it might be, Do you feel like you're growing spiritually here?

Speaker 1:

Why or why not? That's very different than asking am I a good teacher?

Speaker 1:

So it's like, yes, you know, I saw this artist. I don't think he was an artist, I think he just bought a bunch of paintings on Amazon and we're selling them at the beach the other day and he's like do you like this painting? I was like, yeah, well then why don't you buy it? I'm like I painting. I was like, yeah, well then, why don't you buy it? I'm like I didn't know what to say. But it's like if an artist asks you do you like my painting, there's only one answer yes, like. So if you say, am I a good teacher? Yes, am I a good youth pastor?

Speaker 1:

Uh-huh, but you have to ask about the fruit Like are you growing spiritually? Do you have a better understanding of scripture?

Speaker 1:

Do you feel engaged when we worship? Are these songs hitting for you? Do you feel like you have opportunities to make friends here? So you ask about the fruit, not the procedure, you know, because that won't ever get you an honest response, I guess. So, once you kind of have that data and you figure out, okay, is this telling me a story? Am I noticing patterns? What can I do? Here's some areas that you can move on to that are tried and true that probably will address some of the things you're finding anyways.

Speaker 1:

Oh and, by the way, I would really pray over that data of just like that God would show you what he needs, to show you as you kind of analyze what people are saying, the general feeling out there, and that he would just kind of like speak through that and give you wisdom and direction here, and then you kind of move on to this idea that healthy ministry is always built on healthy relationships, first and foremost, and there's really no way around that.

Speaker 1:

Like that is like the core foundation of every single thing we do. It's relationships. So I would, if you feel like your youth ministry is dying, I would laser focus on this area of relationships. And so I mean the obvious relationship here is your relationship with God. Obviously, right, that is the most important. But here's the truth. I know people that are on fire for God have an amazing relationship, are following him closely, are deeply in love with Jesus, and it doesn't mean their youth ministry is going well.

Speaker 1:

It doesn't mean they know how to do their job. On the contrary. I know people and I've seen that dozens of times. You love the Lord, are very sincere, you're passionate about youth. You just like don't know how to piece together youth ministry.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:

And then, on the contrary, I mean, how many times have we seen someone who ends up having a whole double life or is far from the heart of God and their ministry was bursting at the seams? So all I'm saying is, as we move through this content, I'm assuming that your relationship with God is what it should be. That is always first and foremost. Your relationship with God is what it should be. That is always first and foremost. You know, as a pastor, we can't hope to like pour out of an empty cup and we can't hope to teach something that we don't experience on a daily basis for ourselves. Your relationship with God is number one. So here's what we need to do is figure out your relationship with your leaders, your staff, your team, whoever that is you with them and them with each other.

Speaker 1:

Camaraderie is like an it factor, according to Craig Groeschel, in churches that just have it Like. How do you define like? They just have it Like it's just electric, and camaraderie is part of that and it's very obvious to anyone who steps on. It was like there's a buzz between the people, there's love and affection and connection there, and it has to start between you and your team and your team, with your team. That is the foundation of ministry. So if your youth ministry is dying, I would, yes, do the data analysis that we just talked about, but foundationally, what is our relationship culture like among the team? And that is like what trickles out to the rest of the youth ministry. There, literally is nothing. If your team is not good, there is no hope. You know what I mean. Like that, if the leaders aren't getting along, if the leaders aren't connected, if the leaders aren't unified, Well, there's no hope if you don't do anything.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely yes, if you're just like well, people don't get along oh well, you know, it is what it is.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, we've got to be architects of this relational culture for our ministry. It doesn't always just happen naturally, but you, as the pastor or the ministry lead, are the catalyst for this. So you need to have a very good, solid, connected relationship with every single one of your leaders. And you need to have a very good, solid, connected relationship with every single one of your leaders, and you need to foster opportunities for them to have camaraderie and relationship with each other. You know and that comes in the form of all kinds of things like celebrations. You know, celebrating wins together, having fun together, celebrating God, god, stories like oh, look what happened in this small group and this was amazing.

Speaker 1:

And then just celebrating life with each other birthdays or going away parties, or you know, what do we do when someone is sick? Um, do we take care of each other. You know, and that's like I always look at them as like my, my small group. You know, I, and that's like I always look at them as like my, my small group you know I don't lead a small group.

Speaker 1:

They're my small group so that I can focus all my time, energy and relational bandwidth on them and make sure we are healthy, because that's where a growing, thriving youth ministry begins. So and then the truth is, no matter how good of a youth pastor you are maybe you're an excellent teacher, maybe you're highly organized, maybe you're super fun and magnetic and all the kids love you the truth is, no matter how good you are, you will not last in youth ministry without that team around you and the strength of that team is what will carry you into longevity and when that's unhealthy, or when you feel like you've got this and you will quickly realize you will only make it so far.

Speaker 1:

You might be able to have a youth group of like 12 kids, and then that will be your ceiling and your limit, and that's even stretching it. I always use 12 as an example, because that's how many disciples.

Speaker 2:

Jesus had.

Speaker 1:

So you spend every. If you're in emergency life support mode, then you need to spend every single day, literally every single day build, finding a way to build relationships with your team before you do anything else. So examples of that one-on-ones with people grabbing coffee, grabbing lunch, going on a walk, hanging out, doing whatever, but spending one-on-one time with your team, brainstorming sessions, inviting them into the ministry process.

Speaker 1:

Like hey, what does your perfect youth group look like? What from your perspective? We all sit on a different seat in the bus. We see things differently. Like what do you think would make our youth group more impactful? Do you see an area of lack? Do you see an area that if you were I always ask it this way if you were in charge, if you sat in my seat, what would you do next? Or what would you do differently? Or what would you get rid of? What would you add? You, you know, imagine I just pass you the steering wheel and you can take this thing anywhere. It's amazing what you'll hear. Find out again.

Speaker 1:

You need to be humble and listen to that skin yes, and then obviously hangout time, fun time, just celebratory type of things. I'm looking for any excuse to celebrate with my team. A couple got engaged. We're throwing a party. One of them's moving to Hawaii. We're throwing a party. We are the end of a really big event project season. In October we're going on a retreat and throwing a party. We just did summer camp and it was exhausting and we're all depleted and tired. We're throwing a celebration for all of our hard work. I look for any opportunity for fun and celebration and look what we did. So that's a way.

Speaker 1:

And you know encouragement cards. I love writing my team encouragement like just like a literal card or a text or a voice text or something like that. And depending on how, not that you have to be in complete dire straits to pray and fast for your ministry. It always seems like more of like an emergency move or something. But do you guys pray for the ministry together? If you feel like, yeah, you're on life support, why not call a fast and you guys all do that together? We did that once. The ministry was terrible. It was like I dreaded it every single day, cause the kids were not picking up anything we were putting down. Their behavior was like the power balance flipped and they it was mayhem.

Speaker 1:

It was mutiny and I'm like I feel like I work in a prison, I don't feel like I work at a church and you could just notice it. Suck the life out of all of us we were all just going through the motions and dreading.

Speaker 1:

It was not life-giving anymore and I was like, hey, if this is a spiritual battle, we need a spiritual weapon. And we just prayed and fasted for our ministry. Maybe that will bring you guys together, maybe that will show them. Hey, I'm serious about this thing breathing, like getting life breathed back into it, and we need some major spiritual intervention here. And I remember I sent them kind of prayer prompts throughout the day.

Speaker 1:

Okay, for this hour, when you think of it, let's pray for the parents and wisdom of leading their children. Let's pray for the students. Okay, for this hour when you think of it, let's pray for the parents and wisdom of leading their children. Let's pray for the students. Let's pray for us. Let's pray for you know, maybe a specific situation that was very difficult, someone by name. So we were just praying, praying, praying, praying and honestly it worked, like our ministry, like all of a sudden I'm like I recognize this place, like this is this is the? Not that I expect it to be all sunshine and rainbows every day, but it was. It was dark, it was not good or healthy at all. So we needed to come together and just like cry out to God, like we need you as a team, and that, I think, really bonded us and brought the Holy Spirit like full, like power, into our ministry and it was so like oh my gosh, like we charged this hill together and it was really cool.

Speaker 1:

So assess that. What are the relationships like with my team and what are the relationships like you have to figure out with parents? Have we lost trust with parents? Because that's part of it. You need to look at your relationship with the students as well. I'm not going to spend as much time on those, because I think the foundation of a ministry is the team and those relationships, but as a youth pastor, obviously you need to have good relationships with the students as well. Like, do they see you as someone they can talk to? Do you pursue them? Are you excited to see them? Are you on their level? Are you accessible? All of those things Are you for them? Is this like? Are you too hard on them? Is this like school and not like youth groups? You know, and winning over the parents as well. So you kind of have to maintain all those areas of relationship. So and that alone could take months to rebuild, but any ministry that's healthy will be built on a foundation of healthy relationships.

Speaker 1:

So then next, what you want to do is assess the question are we meeting the needs of our students? So we just talked a little bit briefly about our relationship with students and how that needs to be healthy. However, do we actually know what students need, and are we meeting them? So here's a few things that I think are non-negotiables. Here's what students need from their youth group. They need significant relationships where they are known, loved, accepted and celebrated, and by that I mean people show up to church or youth group every week and hoping they will be met with enthusiasm. That's why I use the word celebrated. So when somebody walks through the door, is it up to them to be? Okay, where do I fit in? Okay, people are playing a game over here. Should I go over here? It's kind of that there you are or here I am mentality, but like making a big deal about them.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, jeff, I'm so happy you're here. We're playing four square get in line, how was your weekend? And when we make sure people feel celebrated, like I am so grateful for your presence here, I'm so happy you're here, I noticed that you're here, I'm welcoming you, I'm getting you plugged in, I'm including you, assimilating you all of that. They need to show up with someone being so excited that they're there and that just warms the heart, breaks down the walls and the ice. And don't ever take students' reaction as much of an indicator, because they might be like fine, but then they go home so excited like, oh my gosh, they know my name.

Speaker 1:

You know, calling them by name. That's one of the first things I used to teach my volunteers is always call students by their name. That is so important. And sometimes I don't know their name and they'll ask me, do you know my name? And I'll be like I think so, like that's the worst feeling when you actually don't know their name. So always call them by name, get so excited and then make sure they're being plugged into relationships with adults. But there we have this girl. Her name is Hope and I call her Joy all the time and I'll be like Joy, I'm so happy you're here, and she'll just like, look at me, like so annoyed, and I'm like that's not your name, is it? I do it all the time. In fact, today I played happy birthday joy on the no thing.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if she noticed because today was her birthday I don't know because she just looks so joyful you know, just say you're saying it as like an exclamation joy, I'm so happy to see you.

Speaker 1:

I feel joy, and, and then I figured out a way to remember and I would say Don't say the first name, I think, think about what it actually is. No, like from Snow White. When I would see her I'd go hi Hope, hi Hope, and she like would look at me and she's like is that annoying? She's like kind of.

Speaker 1:

I was like well then I guess I'm calling you joy seems like it's working really well. Okay, so they need significant relationships where they're known, loved, accepted, celebrated. What else do they need? They need fun, a place meant for them where they can be 12 or 13, 14, whatever age you work at with. When I was younger, there was a commercial on TV for Chuck E Cheese and it would go Chuck E Cheese's.

Speaker 2:

Where a kid can be a kid.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I loved that. So glad you finished. And that's sometimes how I feel about church and youth group like sometimes I feel like churches are like you can be here but don't touch anything. You can be here, but you better be quiet. You can be here, but no more cookies for you.

Speaker 1:

You know, like it's just like we're trying to protect the church from the youth group or no, that's a full-time job it really is, but I think creating a place that's like well, we're not forcing our kids to work around the adult service, we're creating a space that's meant for your energy and your need for some excitement and to be loud and you know it's so hard.

Speaker 1:

We used to play this game outside at church, but then we moved a venue to outside because our church is growing too much. And so now, like they were like, well, the kids are too loud and the people can't hear the sermon, so you need to keep them quiet. And finally I just gave up and I'm like we just can't because, you know, then I'm like asking, I'd be like, okay, have fun, but quiet fun. Well, I would like make it a rule but quiet, fun.

Speaker 2:

Well, I would like make it a rule, like it's called silent gaga ball, and if you talk you're out. You know kids see through that, like at four years old.

Speaker 1:

It was not working, so we don't play it anymore and I'm so thankful I have a great room and we can play inside, but the days of us playing games outside is gone, because, you know, no one's fault. It's a good problem to have her growing, but it it was like okay, the how do we have the adults and the students exist simultaneously, to where we aren't asking kids to be something that they're not?

Speaker 1:

obviously respectful and don't like run through the halls going nuts, but just generally being able to have fun, laugh, yell, be excited, be excited to be here. I think we just need to make sure we have a place that's conducive to their energy. And I remember being a kid going to church when I was little and I just went into the auditorium or the main service with my parents and you did just have to be quiet the entire time.

Speaker 1:

You did not speak. The pastor spoke the entire time. The only talking you? The pastor spoke the entire time. The only talking you did was in the form of singing hymns, but other than that, your mouth was shut. There was no opportunity for socialization or being fun, or loud or funny or like there was even getting to know anybody else.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was just so. Kids really need that and so giving them a place within reason that they can just be them, it's so important. So that fun, that engagement. I love that Phil Wickham song there's joy in the house of the Lord today and we won't be silent.

Speaker 1:

You know, I think of that in terms of youth ministry I'm like, yes, you walk into my room on any given Sunday, saturday night, tuesday, whatever we're doing, and there is joy in the house of the Lord and they will not be quiet. You know, and I think that comes from Psalm 122.1 where it's talking about being excited to go to the house of the Lord. Well, what makes a kid excited to go to the house of the Lord while not sitting down and shutting up but being able to be themselves? And obviously they're not going to be talking the whole time. We have a message, but is there room to just be, be them, have some energy out, have some connection time. That's so important. And then what else do kids need? They need a place where they can serve or a way that they can get involved beyond just attending. So a youth group will definitely die if there's no way for anybody to get involved aside from attendance.

Speaker 1:

I told you guys my story. I think church really would have run its course for me had someone not invited me to serve when I was like 18 or something. I think I just would have got bored and just been like is this all there is? Like you just kind of listen to people do ministry and consumerism is not as nice as it sounds, and so if we're just training students to be consumers, I think they're going to get bored really quickly. Watching everyone else Like it's like watching everyone else play the game and you have to sit on the bench and it's like, well, this is only fun for so long. I want to get in there and play.

Speaker 1:

And so giving them. Do we have an easy way to get students serving and involved? Do they have, maybe? I mean, I do that through the avenue of a student leadership team and I assign them different jobs based on their interests. If you don't have a student leadership team one you should, but two you can just help plug people in through, like you could do a serving interest sermon where you tell the kids like, hey, if you're interested in serving, here's some options that junior hires or high schoolers can do at our church. You can come early and help us set up. You can work in the child care or the children's ministry. They hate when we call it child care, children's ministry Babysitting club.

Speaker 1:

You can be a greeter. You can work with the refreshments, like cutting the donuts and putting out the cookies. You can do, I don't know whatever your church offers but yeah, talk with your senior pastor and say can you give me some jobs, some serving places that you think students would be a good fit.

Speaker 1:

Because we have to teach them. It's not like well, it's just for the adults or worse, it's just for the professionals. You know that is such a dry church to attend and then a place where they're. Another thing they need is a place where they're challenged and growing spiritually through worship and the messages they've got to hit. So we've talked about worship for students before. What not? What do you like? What do they like? And don't get all pious and try to make a theological argument why your songs are better than theirs or whatever. As long as it's biblically sound and it's worshiping God, let them have it. I think we need to be very careful of taking where we're at spiritually and thinking well, I'm a 30-year-old man and you're 12. You should be where I'm at. There's a reason kids like the songs they like and there's a reason kids like the shows they like because it hits for them.

Speaker 1:

And if it's not bad and it's worshiping God, let them have it. So that's where your message is as well. Are we hitting them? Are you just talking about things you're interested in? And, like you know, it was hard for me not to talk about my trip to Turkey with my students. They do not care about it. I care about it, I should care about it. But if I was 12 and my youth pastor was like and here's me at the temple of Zeus and the Acropolis.

Speaker 1:

I'd be like check, please. This is so boring, so make sure you're creating messages that hit them where they're at. That's something that they need to hear, and I always know that's happening for me when they look at each other. So, like today, I said something like an acknowledgement. Yes, like these two girls look at each other like uh-oh or like that was us or that already said six, seven, and they had and then there's 41 41 who can figure that one out?

Speaker 2:

no, one one knows Sum 41.

Speaker 1:

Hey, hey that was a band. So, yeah, is our teaching and is it challenging enough too? So, if a kid again. Another way to get kids very bored at church is very surface, mediocre, non-creative messages. People are only going to put up with that for so long. I saw this meme the other day and it was like this person running and it's like when you realize 20 minutes of a personal story and a couple of verses isn't cutting it anymore and they were like running away from church and I thought, yeah, like I think as youth pastors we are like, hey, I could entertain you with a story about me when I fell off my bike and then let's read John 3, 16 and call it a day.

Speaker 1:

It's like if you were sick and that's the best you could do, fine for one day. But if that's your teaching style, is that what you're relying on and you never are challenging students with scripture. They're going to think they've mastered the Bible and that there's nothing else for them, and I think that's how I thought. Going to church as a kid I was like, let me guess, be good the end, you know I just all I saw it as was moralism, like and in today's episode of how to be a good person, uh, don't be jealous the end. And today's episode of how to be a good person don't be jealous the end. In today's episode of how to be a good person share.

Speaker 2:

Listen to your parents. Eat your vegetables.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was just like non-stimulating. And so if we're challenging them with larger theological concepts that match where they're at and in a very engaging way and our worship is engaging for a 12-year-old's ear and they can pick it up and be excited about it We've won. So just be careful that you're hitting them at their level, where they're at, and some youth pastors mistake challenging them like they raise the theology so far above their heads that you've just made it non-accessible. So, finding that sweet spot of like you're going to be able to follow me, but I'm going to challenge you. I think I talk about him all the time, but I think Tim Keller is the perfect example of this is that his messages are so simple yet so challenging, like anyone could understand it. It's not like he's flexing his knowledge and you're like wow, are we in a theology classroom? But he sets you up to push you down. Honestly, it's like okay, I follow you, I follow you, I know that. Uh-huh, uh-huh, that makes sense.

Speaker 1:

And then he comes with the application and the gut punch and you're like I'm done, I'm, I'm toast you know, and it's like you got me, you got me again, and it's his messages are so challenging, yet you can understand them and I think that's the sweet spot for students Like don't let them off easy and like, okay, so let's like be generous people, make sure you're tithing the end, you know, but take them a level deeper and get resources If you struggle with your teaching. You know I've talked about blue letter Bible before Amazing commentary on every single book and passage of the Bible. Sorry, not blue letter Bible. That one's good too. That one's Chuck Smith, but enduring word is my absolute favorite.

Speaker 1:

I can write, and he has sermons too. So if you go to the commentary you can read it. But then you can click on links that have sermons that he's taught on that passage. And that's when, like, my face melted off and I was like, oh my gosh, his name is David Guzik. He's like such a powerful teacher and it's like if that's the only resource you ever had for sermon prep for the rest of your life, it would be enough. Project are super helpful. So those are just like a few little things. You know, think of your sermons sometimes as research papers and try to gather what are other people saying.

Speaker 1:

What do I want to say? What is God telling me? You know you can't just always run to the commentary, but what is God telling you? To tell them as well. It takes longer because you have to listen for the Holy Spirit and then you have to ask yourself not only what do students, are we meeting the needs of these students? But then ask yourself, kind of going back to the relational piece, not just do we have a good relationship with parents, but are we meeting the needs of parents? So, if you notice, we're kind of like in three categories Are we meeting the needs of leaders, relationships, relationships and meeting the needs of students, and relationships and meeting the needs of parents.

Speaker 2:

The three-legged stool.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and staff would be a part of that, like your coworkers. But I don't think that is necessarily reflective of a dying ministry. It usually comes down to leader, students, parents, relationship and needs being met are the two biggies. So, for parents, meeting the needs of parents, what do parents need from us? They need consistent meeting times. Don't jump all over the calendar. And oh, we're going to meet. Well, no, we're not going to meet or we're going to cancel. Oh, I'll let you know. No, you meet the same time, the same place, the same day, every single week. Parents need consistency. There's too many things for them to keep up with. Yeah, especially if you work with junior hires because they don't drive yet. So if you want to try to mix it up with high schoolers, I would not recommend. But it's you know, junior hires are at the mercy of their parents. If you make it difficult for parents, especially non-church parents, they're going to be like I don't think so.

Speaker 1:

Clear and concise and consistent communication with parents. They need to be in the loop, just like your leaders do, of what is going on. What do we need to do, where do we need to be? And don't overdo. We did a whole episode on how to email parents. Well, I'm not going to talk about the details here, you can go back and listen to that. But they need clear, concise and consistent communication with everything they need. Another one we harp on on this podcast quite a bit is this one drives me crazy. People in ministry can be maybe it's just people in general. I work with a lot of people in ministry so hard to get a response from that is the most inexcusable. Look from youth pastor to parent.

Speaker 2:

For people who are always on their phone too. That's what always boggles my mind, Right yeah, you're like. Every time I see you, you have your phone in your hand.

Speaker 1:

That's just not what they want to be doing on their phone, I guess. But it want to be doing on their phone, I guess. But it's like so you saw, you saw that text, you saw that email, you saw that phone call and then you ignored it. Yeah, so we have a saying you have 24 hours to respond to a parent. That is it. After that, it's a bad look.

Speaker 1:

So parents are number one, and your leaders as well, but number one priority of communication, whether it's a text, an email, a DM, a phone call, they deserve you to get back to them. And when you don't, and when they can't get ahold of you and, heaven forbid, have to go above you and talk to your boss, your senior pastor, and say wasn't able to get ahold of the youth pastor, oh my gosh To me, wasn't able to get a hold of the youth pastor? Oh my gosh To me. That is like the cringiest, like. Parents need to hear from us, be accessible and prompt with your communication. Your youth ministry overall needs to be organized and convenient, because that builds trust. The organization especially builds trust with parents. You need to look like you've got your stuff together, that this isn't a hey, we just kind of show up and whatever happens happens. That's not a program parents want to send their kids to do.

Speaker 1:

Are you a trustworthy adult? There's a lot of adults who are not trustworthy and parents are freaked out about non like especially.

Speaker 1:

Imagine a parent with church trauma or church hurt and you don't return, like, say, you take their kid to the trampoline park not just them, but like a group of kids and you're a half an hour late and you didn't say anything to the parents and they're just waiting there at the church wondering what's going on. Or you didn't have permission slips available and you their kid got hurt on your watch but you didn't even think to have the permission slip, so you can't even call the parent to tell them you know, your kid twisted their ankle or something.

Speaker 1:

So just be responsible with the ministry, be organized and earn the trust of parents that way and then seek to engage them. Talk to the parents, try to get to know them, go after them, don't avoid them. I think sometimes youth pastors avoid parents or see almost parents as the enemy.

Speaker 2:

Like.

Speaker 1:

I've heard so many youth pastors kind of roll their eyes. Oh, the parents, the parents, they're not that bad, they're just. You know, like they're not the enemy, they are your advocate and they can be your biggest raving fan If you'll let them be your best friend, your worst enemy you seem to prefer the latter cable guy reference Um, and all of this builds trust as we engage them, as we're friendly, and all of that.

Speaker 1:

So those are the big areas I can point you to If you're trying to revive a dying youth group Leaders, students, parents are we meeting their needs and do we have positive relationships? That will take you so far. And then, as we talked about in the first half, what is your specific data telling you about the program? Because those three areas are generalities for every ministry, but you need to get deep into the nitty gritty of like, what are we doing that isn't working for people and you analyze that data. And if you can do the first half and second half of what we talked about, I think you know. Obviously bathed in prayer and seeking the Lord and his guidance. Obviously bathed in prayer and seeking the.

Speaker 1:

Lord and his guidance, you can hopefully revive any youth group.

Speaker 2:

I think it's possible. Yeah, it's kind of like getting that diagnosis from a doctor. You know you may not want to hear it, but until you know what you're dealing with you can't really have any treatment towards improving it Totally. So you have to go through that hard time before you can see any light. You had mentioned the email episode that we did. I will link that below, so make sure you check that out. And also, if you kind of want to go deeper on some practical things to do, especially if you're working at a not just a dying youth ministry but a dying church overall, we have an episode dedicated to that, so make sure you check that one out.

Speaker 2:

All right, this is a community comment of the day. This comes from Ryan Baines, who says been listening to you guys for about six months now and it's been so beneficial in so many ways. I'm 41 officially today Happy belated birthday but very new to the youth leadership game and I'm a part of an amazing team at Compassion City Youth and this has given us so many ideas. It's also nice to know we're not the only ones dealing with some of the struggles we face. The youth ministry struggle is real Praying for you guys, your ministry, and for continued success and growth.

Speaker 1:

Love that. Thanks, Ryan. That's really awesome. Thank you, Ryan Love that Appreciate that Well.

Speaker 2:

Thank you guys for watching and listening and we'll see you next time.

Speaker 1:

Today, we're talking about the best practices for what. Today, we're talking about the best practices for what the best email practices, best practices, the best email practices. Today, we're talking about the best practices.