Ministry Coach: Youth Ministry Tips & Resources

How to Keep Students Engaged During Small Groups

• Kristen Lascola • Episode 262

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Now is the time to grow a healthy, thriving youth ministry...if you'd like to work with us, check out GrowYourYouthMinistry.com *** Are you trying to keep your students engaged during small groups in your youth ministry?  Small groups are one of the best models for discipleship in student ministry, but what do you do when you can't keep them engaged?  In this episode, we give a ton of practical tips on how to keep students listening and sharing during small group time at your youth group.

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You may also enjoy these episodes:

(#066) Writing Effective Talk Sheets for Small Group Time in Youth Ministry

(#064) What's the BIG DEAL About SMALL GROUPS in Youth Ministry?

(#052) Small Group Leader Training for Youth Ministry

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SPEAKER_01:

You should do the least amount of talking. You ask good questions, you set the tone, you get them moving toward the direction they need to move, but you're not lecturing. The last thing you want is a frustrated leader. They really did not sign up for discipline. They signed up for discipleship. Today we're talking about the best practices of how to keep your students engaged during small groups in youth ministry.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we give you weekly tips and tactics to help you fast-track the growth and health of your youth ministry. If this is the first time we're meeting, my name is Jeff Lascola, and this is Kristen Lascola.

SPEAKER_01:

And today we're going to answer the question: how to keep students engaged and listening during your small group time. We've said it before, we'll say it again. If you're like what small groups, push boss, go launch small groups, then come back. Then come back and finish. Because that is like the only way I can think to have a like consistent discipleship model in youth ministry. And so here's the thing, especially if you work with junior hires like me, we know that small groups can sometimes feel less than life-giving and less than productive. You were a small group leader for a while.

SPEAKER_02:

It's Thunderdome. Yeah. No rules.

SPEAKER_01:

Sounds like a leadership problem to me. Definitely was.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's why I asked for that leader to step down.

SPEAKER_01:

I asked myself one day, never turn back.

SPEAKER_02:

Is this really worth it? It is not. Leave.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, it is. Don't listen to Jeff. It is worth it. And I know like it can be a frustrating half hour, 45 minutes. So if you are doing high school small groups, I think high schoolers can go a little longer. In fact, they need to go a little longer. They should be able to, like probably 45 to 50 minutes is great for a high school small group. You know your group best. So this is not like I did not write this in stone. It's not a law. Do whatever you want. Junior high, I feel like a half hour to 40 minutes is probably good. You know, sometimes, depending on the group, they can go way longer and it be healthy and productive.

SPEAKER_02:

Or boys versus girls.

SPEAKER_01:

I was gonna say, and I try to keep it to around 30 minutes to like put our male small group leaders out of their misery some some weeks. I and it has to be uniform. I can't be like, all right, you guys can go 45, you guys go, you know, it's like part of the program. So you have to pick a time. But yeah, so I the the reason I bring that up is because I guess it's not just common knowledge. Like I've had youth pastors reach out before with small group qu questions and they'd say, you know, like we spent about 15 minutes in small groups. I'm like, oh wow, okay, well, that could solve your problem.

SPEAKER_02:

You haven't even gone through all the farts yet.

SPEAKER_01:

I know we're still saying six, seven, we're still farting, we're still, you know, like putting our trash in the trash can because you know, we all fighting over a chair. Totally. So yeah, I think 30 minutes minimum, 40 to 45 maximum, and then high school 45 to an hour, you know, the girls might want to go that long. Uh, you know, and I don't mean to paint with a broad brush. Girls just in my experience tend to want to talk more and longer. And boys are ready to, you know, burn some energy after a little while, which is totally fine. So we're gonna talk about okay, if we're going to do small groups, which we are, that is a non-negotiable. How do we make them the best that they can possibly be? Because they can be frustrating. It can be really, really hard to get students of any age or gender to listen or focus. Some of our girls' small groups are giggly and like warty. Yes, you you know who you are. Very farty. Um, you know, and it's it's not just the boys, you know. We have some girls small groups that like the leaders are like, oh, that was really a struggle. So today we're gonna talk about just some practical tips. And we're gonna go through a lot, and I'm gonna try to do them quickly because I did something a little different for this episode. My research is, you know, it's partly from myself and my experience. I have been a small group leader for many, many years. I'm currently not, so that I can help my small group leaders specifically with discipline. But some of this is from me. But then what I did is I sent out a message to my small group leaders asking them this question to see what they would say. And it's interesting, there's some common threads, but I it made me realize every group of kids is so different and what they need and what works for them. And every small group leader, you know, as they wrote me this afternoon an answer to this question, you realize that they are kind of the expert of their small group and they have a very specific leadership style, and they've tried to figure out where those two meet and where they have found success. So it's gonna feel like wow, like maybe you can grasp at one of these and see if it works for your small groups. So I started off by asking um my girls director slash admin Arden. I was asking her at church today, and she said, set clear boundaries, rules, and expectations for the group. And I put in parentheses, you might have to do that every single time. Like it's not just like, well, remember that at the very beginning of the year when we talked about expectations. You might have to review that every single time, especially with the younger ones, just to be like, hey guys, here's what this time is, here's what this time isn't for the next 30 minutes. We're going to study the Bible. I want to hear from all of you. We're here to learn from the Bible, learn from each other, discuss, wrestle through things, pray for each other. I need you on board with that mission and vision. If I sense that you are not on board with that mission and vision, we're gonna have to come up with a solution for you because this time is too important to be a throwaway. So I added more than what she said, but it's like that boundaries and goals and expectations, kind of that like state of the union before you start. Another idea Arden has was, and I used to do this as a small group leader, offer rewards towards goals. So if you have a goal for your entire small group to bring their Bible, say if every single girl brings their Bible for three weeks in a row, I'll bring pizza for our group. Or you can give them more of an immediate reward. Every kid who brings their Bible gets a piece of candy. I like to give candy for kids who answered, like raised their hand, answered, and participated in the right way. You know, that helped them stay focused and motivated, whatever it takes. She said, bring in activities that they want to do or look forward to do in order to stay engaged. And one of her examples was highs and lows. She says the girls always really look forward to saying highs and lows for the week. I would recommend timing that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, give you a cap of time.

SPEAKER_01:

Totally. And because some of the boys chimed in on that, then they're like, we just pray we can get through highs and lows. And I'm like, yeah, I can sense that because students really do like to talk about themselves. And it might have to be like everyone gets 30 seconds, here's my phone timer, ready go. When I was a small group leader, I used to do that. I I wanted to hear from everyone, but it could turn into a big long story that this kind of forced them to cut out any unnecessary details and get to the point because there's way more stuff to do. Or for the boys, if they don't want to do highs and lows, if there was some like quick little get to know you game, or maybe not a runaround game, because I think it'd be really tough to like center their energy back in. But like, you know, the game where you put the card on your head and they have to guess what it is, if you could make it relevant to your small group, you know, or something like that. But yeah, just something to kind of break the ice, kind of like get their little wiggles out, you know, and kind of start on like a like a positive note, you know, not like, all right, listen up, guys. This is, you know, because that doesn't really what we're trying to do is inspire fellowship, inspire conversation, inspire community. So it's always this like line of tension between being overly strict and overly permissive, because what you would want is that you don't have to be the bad guy and they all just share and focus and participate, and we had a good old time. Now that usually happens with my student leadership girls. We had a great discussion on Friday, and it was just like on fire, you know, that's not always the case. And that was like utopia as a small group leader, what we hope for. But yeah, that tension of like, I do need to be like one of my leaders, Vaughn, said, like, sometimes you do have to get strict with them and like make a boundary. And I always tell the leaders like, if you are having a problem with boundaries and they're not respecting you, it is not outside the realm of possibility to send a kid out. The the And that's where you come in. That's where I come in. And the key is or the two-leader system. One leader can stay with the group and one leader can take a kid out in the hallway and talk to him.

SPEAKER_02:

Beat the heck out of him and talk to him.

SPEAKER_01:

And I and I'm glad you bring that up because my goal is always to be respectful and kind. So I'm never out in the hallway yelling at a kid. What I'm usually saying is, hey, I don't know if you forgot the purpose of small groups, but you have a small group leader who came tonight for free because they love this and they're excited to get you guys to understand more of who God is. And imagine you all are in a boat and you're all rowing together toward this common goal of like, we want to understand the Bible, we want to learn, we want to leave here different than when we came. And when you distract or fart or try to be the funny guy or are being rude or disrespectful, it's like you're rowing the opposite direction. And that's really hard for the small group. And I know you can do it. I want to hear you participate, but I just think you need to understand what correct participation looks like. We want to hear from you. We want to hear what you have to say. So it's all very positive. And that's why, like a small group leader or myself, like I trust that we're gonna do that the right way. You know, back in the day, I've had like random security people, not anyone who's currently on my staff, but like try to like, hey kid, like you better shape up and show some respect. And it like doesn't really go. Scared straight techniques. Yeah. And it's just not the look we're going for, it's not the heart we're going for, it's not effective, I would say. But sometimes you do have to send a kid out. I had to send a kid out of church last Sunday, you know. Luckily, I wasn't speaking, so I just walked with him. I said, you know, we're gonna just walk. Let's walk. And then the next Sunday I had to send him out again. And I gave him to another leader and I said, I think he's needs a walk done with what we're doing. And she was available. She's like, I got it. And so they went in the office and played some trading card game or something. But it it's always nice to have an extra leader where you can just be like, All right, we've reached the end of our ability to reason with this person. They just need to be gone so we can do what we need to do. So give your leaders that option. And you, if they have re the last thing you want is a frustrated leader. They really did not sign up for discipline, they signed up for discipleship.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And leaders get burnt out when they feel like I remember being a substitute teacher thinking I was going to teach. And I was very excited about that. And I remember the first time I did, I taught, and it was invigorating and I loved it. And I'm like, sign me up. And then slowly what it became is behavior management, discipline, sending kids to the principal, calling kids parents, chasing kids who would run out of the classroom. I'm like, I'm good. It's not worth the$90 you're gonna pay me or whatever. It's just like I wanted to teach. And so I think about that with my small group leaders. What did they sign up for? Okay, the ugly parts, there will be some, inevitably, drama and disrespect. We can't eliminate all of that for them. But what we can eliminate from them, we should. I can take the discipline, I can make the phone call, I can do the dirty hard work, you know, for them. And then that just helps them not burn out, burn out as easily. So, okay, so one of my leaders, she had this tip, Hannah, and she's like, I feel like this might only work for my group. I don't know, but she has a group of eighth grade girls that sometimes they get really out of control, just like blah blah. And she's like, I just tell them, we are going to be silent for one minute. And you, if you talk, I'm starting the timer over, you know, and in the wrong group, they'd be like, right.

SPEAKER_02:

I was thinking of junior high boys, any grade, that would, yeah, it would be never ending.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's what she said. She's like, it's not for every group, but for my group, they really like it. It is a reset button for them when they like can't get a hold of themselves. And I think that's a problem for junior hires, is they can't contain their own energy, they can't direct their own energy, they can't manage their own energy. So it's not like they're trying to be bad, but their energy is just unmanageable for even them. So if you say, you know what, we're gonna be absolutely silent, close your eyes if you need to. One minute, it's like we're gonna push the reset button of like, I'm in control of my energy, I can be calm, I can keep it together, you know, because then they just feed off each other and then, you know, and it reaches this fever pitch and you can't get it back. So it's like she has found I just need absolute silence. And it's almost like this metaphoric deep breath, and then we can keep going. And it works for her. Again, that's why I'm gonna give you guys a lot of ideas because her small group is eighth grade girls. What works for that is not gonna work for sixth grade boys. So I heard we're gonna hear from all kinds of people today. So, Caleb, my guy's director, he said this. Um, he was a former small group leader, but like myself, he's not leading right now. He fills in as like a substitute when we're missing leaders. He says, Don't make it feel like a classroom or lecture hall since it's for their growth in community, not for us to be on a soapbox. And sometimes you don't get to the to the talk sheet because something else comes up. So as long as it's growth for them and as a group, I see it as productive. And I love what he said about like is this. I think sometimes leaders feel like, okay, I'm gonna do sermon 2.0. Right. And it's like, no, now we're in the lab. Like it was lecture, now lab. So the sermon was lecture, lab is discussing hands-on, how do we do this? Get in the Bible, ask questions, answer questions, learn together. So it's like not the small group leader's job to be like, you should do the least amount of talking. You ask good questions, you set the tone, you get them moving toward the direction they need to move, but you're not lecturing. And he brings up one of the things I wrote down as well that I totally agree with. And I think another leader, Ryan, said this. The whole point, like, I give my leaders the talk sheet. It's there if you need it and if you want to follow it. However, I've also coached youth pastors who say, I can't get my kids to be interested in what we're talking about. And I said, because they might not be, you know, like we might have to abandon ship, not from the Bible or spiritual things or God, but what we had planned to talk about that night in small groups. If they are 0% interested in that, yet they are interested in asking some questions more off the cuff, it can turn into a fantastic small group if you follow a rabbit trail that is like Caleb said, still productive. It's not like, um, let's just talk about like what boys we like or something like that. It I mean, that's okay for part of it, like community. I would consider that honest community. Uh, but if they, if that's all they want to talk about, it's like, all right, let's wrap it up. Hey, like, let's talk about something real now. That could be like the icebreaker, you know. But it's like what they want to talk about, you'll find probably a very high level of engagement in like what's on their heart, what's on their mind. And that's not like you have to ask that. You could just maybe sense it in the either if they're not engaging in the material and they're just giving you one-word answers and they're not really like moved by it, or if sometimes they'll pick it up and run the ball another way. And if it's good, just go with them, you know, or if they're asking a question that you think everyone's kind of leaning in, like, yeah, like what is the answer to this? So let them set the tone. Like, some leaders get very fixated on the talk sheet or the discussion sheet itself and keep trying to bring students back to that, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but use wisdom and common sense of like, am I trying to force you out of a great conversation for whatever on my paper?

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Like, be sensitive to where the spirit is kind of leading and teaching them, and don't necessarily steal that or pull that away from them because you have to do what's on the talk sheet. You don't. It's there, and that's the topic we planned, and it's probably a really good one. But the Holy Spirit might be doing something different and be open and flexible to that. I think that makes some leaders a little nervous because they're like, oh no, what if we talk about something I don't know the answers to? And Caleb is very humble and honest, and he'll say, and that's when I go say, Let's find Kristen. Go ask Kristen. Or I'll get a text message from a leader. Hey, can you pop in my small group? They're asking some stuff that I would love your input on. And I'm like, absolutely, I make house calls. So, you know, let them know like another reason why I'm available. If your kids start asking questions and you're feeling like iffy on it, bring me in as the youth leaders, youth pastor. I'm here to help. Josh, pray in the beginning that you make it past the highs and lows. Josh, if you're listening, get a timer. All right. Okay, so Ryan, um, he's one of my very seasoned leaders. He's been doing it for a long time, took a break and just came back. And he said, start with prayer and see if one of the kids wants to pray. Feel out the vibe. Sometimes it's a night to have a meaningful conversation, and sometimes it's just a night to get to know the kids better. And then I love what he says right here. It's the long game that matters. And he would know that because he's been in it for years. And, you know, again, Ryan has learned the art of flexibility there of like, is tonight a night where we just need some community? Because that's spiritual too. I mean, a night of getting to know each other, and there is a very powerful thing of kids feeling that sense of belonging and how their spiritual walls come down a little bit, you know, is like, okay, I was known or I had fun or we laughed together. And in the big group, maybe we didn't get to do that as intentionally, but now I'm sitting here with my small group leaders and I feel part of a community, I feel a part of a family, I feel like I belong. And that's great. And Ryan's saying, sometimes sense the vibe. Do you guys just need some small group time together? And you could ask, like, hey, you know, as we wrap up kind of our time, does anyone have anything they want prayer for? And see what happens once those walls are down from everyone like enjoying camaraderie. They might be like, Yeah, my dad has cancer. I haven't told you guys because I didn't really know the right time to bring it up. We've had kids say that just comes out of nowhere, like, we had no idea. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02:

But it just And that's one of those things where if that came out, let's say in the beginning, it's worth camping on that and not just being like, Okay, cool. Does anybody else have anything to share? You know, it's like that may take up your whole time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And we've been a part of life groups where you know, like sometimes someone drops a bomb and they're like, Oh, forget about all this. We need to talk, we need to come around you, we need to like give high attention to this right now. So, and that's probably harder for newer leaders to do. Ryan's been doing this for a long time. He's a pro. So, you know, he knows that hey, what kind of mood are these kids in? Do they need prayer? Do they need the discussion? Do they need just some love, you know, uh, from their small group leaders and attention and interest. And, you know, it's amazing. Like junior hires are bottomless pits for love, attention, and affection. You know, they just want your undivided look at me, hear me, see me, value me, watch me, you know, hang out with me. They that is fulfilling a need. So I love that. I love when he says it's the long game that matters. You have a long time with these students if they're you're in your small group and every night is a little different. Building night, prayer night, discussion night. Like, let's look at the long game of like what am I trying to accomplish? And he was so great. He would take the boys hiking and camp. I don't know if they went camping, but they were always like hiking or mountain biking. He was taking the boys to do like really cool things. So relationship. Trevor, uh, he's one of our leaders and interns. And he says, you have to win their trust before being the bad guy or the party pooper. That will help in the long run of keeping them engaged and controlling behavior. So we always say in student ministry, relationship is the bridge that truth travels over. So the more relationship we have with them, the more influence we have with them, and the more hope we have to get them to listen when it matters, you know, when we do have to kind of be like, hey guys, enough. You know, if they know us and love us, then that means something instead of just like, who's this guy? And that's why consistency is important too, because if you're never there, they're like, what do you care? Like, no, now you're here to be the bad guy and you're you never show up, kind of thing. Trevor says, also make sure there are clear boundaries set, kind of what Arden was saying, so they know when it's appropriate time to have fun and it's appropriate time to get serious. And I think with that, like having a little schedule, you know, of like, all right, we do our highs and lows, and then I do our state of the union, and then I say, Oh, remember what we're here for tonight? All right, who would like to pray? That kind of signals we're transitioning now, and then we do the discussion or, you know, whatever they want to talk about, end in prayer, like help guide them through what is appropriate at what time. Well, now we can be a little more off the cuff and casual or just sharing about our highs and lows. Oh, she prayed, she's now transitioning us to the other stuff. So if you kind of lead with a similar formula every week, they might be like, oh, I I'm signaled now what to do. And you know, phones are a real issue in small groups. I helped lead with one of our eighth grade girls small groups two weeks ago, and right off the bat, it was no questions. Everyone just put their phone in their small group bin. So every small group has a bin with their name on it and the leaders' names, and they bring it in and it has supplies and stuff like that, but they also use it as like a phone carrier, so it wasn't like, oh, I have to take it away because you've misused it. I'm not even giving you the chance to misuse it. You just put it in the bin until we're done. Because a junior hire's favorite line, predictable as the sun rising in the morning. Put your phone away. I'm texting my mom every time, as if that is the caveat for this is acceptable. It's like I so I finally said, tell your mom not to text you during our small group, or tell your mom not to text you during the sermon at church. Like, is this an emergency? Then you should be out of here. But if you your mom is just texting you, it can wait. My gosh, we did it. I grew up going to church without a phone. If my mom needed to tell me something, she told me after. And so that's their number one thing. So it needs to go in the bin. It's 30 minutes. If there's an emergency, we'll figure it out. So Mara, she had some really great things to say. She's one of our seventh grade girls, small group leaders. She said they nearly, they're nearly always willing to talk about themselves, preferences, funny stories, school stuff, sports, etc. We start with highs and lows. We're noticing that theme there, to give the girls a chance to connect with each other and leaders on a personal level, but also to help them express excitement and energy before we ask them to focus a little more on sermon reflection and the questions, what we were just talking about. Like this is this time, this is this time. I like this part. She said, I like to ask what about the message stood out to them, which gives the girls a little refresh and the opportunity, opportunity to ask questions before we jump into the info on the talk sheet. Yes, to the set boundaries, she was agreeing. But I love how she does the okay. Well, just starting with a very broad general question that anybody can jump in on. Like, well, what stood out to you about the sermon? And that's just a great way to start because it kind of is a review and a refresher. And then it might even indicate to you like what parts of the talk sheet to focus on, or oh my gosh, they heard this, let's go that direction. So, as a small group leader, pay attention to what they're saying during the what stood out to you so that you know where to go next, maybe of like, oh, they really heard so much about this, let's camp in that area. Like, it seems like they're gonna be the most interested to talk about things that have to do with whatever, right? And I love how she said, like, let them get it out. Like, that's kind of I've been noticing they lead different ways, but that's been like the common denominator. Like, there's gotta be time in the beginning. It's just you've gotta have the boundary to not let that time get away from you because all of a sudden now you have three minutes to like, uh, like Bible in prayer, you know. Austin, he says this, he's one of our small group leaders. Matt and I, that's his co-lead. Matt and I have found sometimes if we have one of the boys ask the questions on the talk sheet, that helps the other guy stay more engaged.

SPEAKER_02:

I used to do that sometimes too. Yeah. And I sometimes I'd have the more wild ones read the questions because it kept them engaged. And it was almost like when they're asking it, they really want to hear the answers from other people. Because now it's important because I asked the question. It wouldn't always work, but a lot of times that we found that was it was either.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you had told me that at some point, but I I've never really done that. So that was like, whoa, creative. And maybe the boys need that more. But yeah, like throwing it to the kids. All right, you asked this question and seeing their peers a lead is probably a cool thing too. And he says, and also like Caleb and Ryan were saying, being willing to deviate from what you were planning on talking about in order to address what seems to be the most poignant in their lives. So again, it's like, are we listening to them? Right? Like the small group is not for them to listen to the small group leader. It's for us to listen to them and guide the conversation. Like, and that's really what a small group leader is guiding conversation to a good place, asking good questions so that you get to a good conclusion, leading people in their thoughts to have a spiritual awakening or epiphany or see and understand God in themselves better. So it really is an art form. It's not just them listening to you do sermon 2.0. Hey, friend, I just wanted to interrupt this episode for a second to let you know about an awesome opportunity for you and your youth ministry. So last year, we We launched our course and coaching program called Youth Ministry Growth Accelerator. And the response has been amazing. So we've helped tons of youth pastors grow the size and health of their youth ministry. And we want to invite you to be a part of that as well because maybe you're just sort of feeling stuck in a rut. Maybe you don't know what to do next. Maybe you just have a vague plan in your mind of what you're doing and you want some real help to get you from where you are to where you want to go. So if that sounds like something you've been looking for, go to growyouryoutministry.com and check it out for more details. All right, let's get back to the episode. And then a couple of thoughts from myself that I've noticed can really impact small groups, is the small group chemistry might be to blame, is why you're not having really great success and leading a good small group. Oh, we even know this as adults. Like if you show up to a Bible study and it's just not it, like you're not sharing. And so sometimes youth leaders are like, oh, I can't get them to share. Like, have you ever thought it could be the chemistry is just off? So, like, and you can have the opposite problem. Like, they can be too good of friends, you know what I mean? And that makes it impossible as well. So either they don't connect with each other, and that's really hard because nobody really is like interested in like building community with people they don't really click with. And then on the other hand, you have people that are way too close of friends, and you feel like, hi, I'll be here in the corner while you guys just laugh and have your inside jokes the whole time. Here's what I would do if they're too good of friends and they won't stop talking and you can't get them to hush. This is what I have to do all the time. I have to move them where they sit. And they have to be, and then especially the boys, I had to move this one kid like four times today during church. He had to be with out touching range, like in like, and he kept scooting his chair. And I'm like, I see you. I am right here. He didn't care. He had to be near someone that he could touch or take their hat off or flip their hat in the air or do something. And I'm like, I said, you need a lot of supervision. I'm like, this is getting really exhausting, and he just did not care. So sometimes you have to move them where they can't touch anybody or they're not next to their BFF because I can empathize in junior high. If I was sitting next to my best friend in any class, it was uh not controllable. Like we you do the little like and you like look at each other and try not to laugh or pass a note, or we'd write something funny on our book covers or something or in the books, yeah. We did we did that. Um in our Bibles of all things, in the cover of our Bible, he would like write weird notes and pictures, very weird, you know. So I empathize with the weirdness of a junior hire. I I remember being that way. So sometimes it's like just get them away from each other. And then if it's bad chemistry and nobody likes each other, here would be my question: do you need to split? Do you need to find maybe three with a common denominator of like, I think we could get these three to click if these four weren't here and these four could kind of click. Well, now we have two super small groups, but with a way better chance of connection because I've seen that happen before. I split a group about a year ago, and the small group leaders' feedback was like all of a sudden they share and talk. And I'm like, we had bad chemistry. We should have done that a long time ago. They were like uphill every single week, and then we split it to what I always coin as the phrase, like, put people in the best opportunity for connection. And when we architect it that way, it worked. Do you need to find a way to build camaraderie? Like, is there no fun? So there is no chemistry. Maybe that's what it is. You need to have some kind of icebreaker or bring in candy or you know, do something fun outside a group together, or you know, like do something that builds relationships instead of we are a group of people talking and nobody's like into it, you know. You have the best conversations with your best friends, right? So try to put them in a place to build camaraderie. And then a second sneaky thing is is the group too big? So if you're not having any success with engagement, it could be the group is too big. That's a really big problem for us, and it's hard to solve because there's only so many rooms and leaders and spaces and places. It's hard. But if you have a small group that is actually pushing a size of a small youth group, you need to maybe strategize how to cut that down a little bit. Splitting is always hard, they never want it, they always complain and kick and scream, but it actually always builds health in the long run. Like Ryan said, we're looking at the long game here. So I think sometimes, like a kid, especially a new kid, they're like, Yeah, all right, I'm not sharing in front of 14 boys I don't know. But when you give them a good shot at like, okay, I could probably get to know these five boys. I don't think I could get to know these 14 boys. And so how deep can your conversation really go? Like when nobody knows each other, all you really are gonna do is answer Bible questions. You're not going to be doing life. And I don't, there's nothing wrong with answering Bible questions, but small groups are more than that. It's like doing life and yeah, sharing the prairie quest about your dad who has stage four cancer and talking about, you know, the fight you had, you know, with your parents and you're upset, or the bad grade you got, and now you had to get off the football team or whatever that like tender spot is for you that you need support and encouragement. That's gonna be hard in a group that's too large. So engagement will be surfacey at best, and we'll just kind of stick to the plan and get through the half hour. You know what I mean? So you guys are lucky you got to hear from some of the best small group leaders that I have come across. And thank you to my volunteers who chimed in on our Discord discussion thread today and gave their two cents. It was really good.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and also keep in mind that small group is a very impactful time for your youth group overall, but it is one aspect of many. I mean, assuming you do do a message, um, worship, you know, things like that. If it doesn't hit every question on the talk sheet and you only spend time just getting to know each other, it's like, well, that's still a win because there were other times that we you were in the word, you know, in the message or you were doing worship music, and it doesn't always have to be like we got through every single question. So make sure you give that yourself and your uh small group leaders that grace of knowing like it doesn't have to be buy the book every single time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's not necessarily success. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

And if you do want uh some more information on how to write a successful talk sheet, we have an episode all about that, so we'll link that below. So make sure you check it out. And also, if you are loving this podcast, make sure you like and subscribe, whether you're watching and listening on YouTube or any other platform. Um, and also if you want to take a couple seconds to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, that benefits the show because it gets to more people out there. So we are gonna do a community comment of the day. This is from Matt Nelms, who says, Oh, and this is also from the worship night episode that we did. Taking our sizable youth group out to the beach this Saturday night for a night of worship, reading psalms, offering prayers, and a few incredible sets of praise songs to sing with grace in our hearts to the Lord, timing it for sunset. That'd be cool, and hopeful that some beachgoers will decide to join us. Great content and ideas in the video. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow, thanks, Matt.

SPEAKER_02:

Let us know how it went because that was two months ago when you wrote that.

SPEAKER_01:

So also, I don't know what you mean by sizable, but if I learned this the hard way this summer, if you're taking a sizable group to the beach, you need a permit. I got in trouble uh by the lifeguards, and they were very nice about it. So when I say in trouble, I just mean they were like, hey, next time we need a permit. So if you live in California, I think it's like 65 people or more you need a permit. Or maybe it was you could get it 65 days out. Or and it was 35 days. Maybe. I don't know. You gotta look that up, okay? You'll look it up. But yeah, something something about 65 is.

SPEAKER_02:

So just ask for forgiveness, not permission, is what you're saying. Well, that's what I had to do this year. And thank you guys for watching and listening. And we'll see you next time. What's it called?

SPEAKER_01:

Podecast?

SPEAKER_02:

Hippodicast.

SPEAKER_01:

Hippopodicast. The reality is really going for it. The reality is radio horror.