The Law in Lockdown and Beyond, with Hannah Beko
A series of conversations with those in the legal profession navigating the ups and downs of the law during and after lockdown. How has this changed the profession as we've emerged from the global pandemic?
The Law in Lockdown and Beyond, with Hannah Beko
Friday Conversation with Sian Darlington, business and crime solicitor at gunnercooke
Sian is a colleague of mine at gunnercooke and it was lovely to have a Friday afternoon chat with her about what's she's learned about herself and her family throughout lockdown. Sian has used the opportunity to build her business through networking Zoom meetings and start a vlog! She's also adopted "date night" with her husband on a Saturday night with a virtual wine tasting.
You can find out more about Sian here.
Podcast host Hannah Beko is a self-employed lawyer, coach and creator of the Lawyers Business Mastermind™ (the place for entrepreneurial lawyers to grow).
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You can connect with Hannah on LinkedIn or visit www.authenticallyspeaking.co.uk.
If you'd like to take part in a #FridayConversation, please do email Hannah@authenticallyspeaking.co.uk.
Hello everyone and welcome to another Friday Conversation. Today I'm joined by Sian Darlington who is a colleague of mine at Gunner Cook. So I'm going to say hello Sian and come and introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Hi Hannah, thanks for having me on. Yeah, as you say, I work with you at Gunna Cook and I specialise in business crime and regulatory law. People often say to me, well, what does that actually mean? Basically, both individuals and businesses are subject to lots of different types of regulation of which the criminal law is one example, but there are many others which impose duties on them and subjects them to standards. So things like health and safety law, anti-money laundering, trading standards and you know the regulation of those takes place within the criminal courts but there's other areas so for professionals who are regulated by bodies such as solicitors in the SRA the solicitors regulation authority doctors in the general medical council where any allegations of breach of those standards are determined in the tribunals so it's quite a varied area a bit of anything and everything from straightforward general crime driving offences to large-scale frauds to enforcement notices issued by local councils. Yeah, very varied, but I like it.
SPEAKER_01:You're a very useful lady to know, I find. I
SPEAKER_00:hope so.
SPEAKER_01:So in lockdown in particular, I know you've been our go-to at different conversations about the lockdown rules and what the police are doing and enforcing, and you've been our go-to person, haven't you?
UNKNOWN:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I have. I've lost it slightly now because we won't talk too much about politics. But I think things have got very confused about how far you can stretch the law depending on who you are. But yes, generally, I have been the boring person that's read all the rules and regulations and tried to work out what they actually mean and what you can and can't do.
SPEAKER_01:Yes absolutely and you're right we won't go there politically but I know of course exactly what you're talking about. So prior to lockdown of course I know the answer to this because I work with you but for the benefit of everybody else how much did you work from home before lockdown so how much has this been a big change for you or not?
SPEAKER_00:Well I was mainly based at home for prior to lockdown is I was in private practice at a firm in Manchester for many years but since 2014 I've worked on a consultancy basis more on a freelance basis and I did that up until joining Gonna Cook in 2018 so I've mainly been based on home for five six years and until I I joined Gunna Cook, I never really had a permanent office space. So it was actually being quite nice to have the option of being able to go into an office and to have colleagues again. I probably went into the office once or twice a week prior to lockdown. So I've missed that really. But I am used to working from home. Of course, I'm not used to working from home with three children, homeschooling and a husband also working from home. So that's been a bit of a learning curve. But yeah, the actual working from home itself, I'm quite used to.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. No, it's interesting. And I'm just thinking, actually, while you were speaking, I think you might be my first person from Gonna Cook to come on Friday Conversations. But I... Sorry? That's exciting. Well, exactly, exactly. But yeah, I totally agree with you. I mean, you know, historically, some people have thought of us as a bit of a virtual law firm. I know that's the term that's been used a lot over the years. And I've always said to people, well, no, you know, we have real offices, we have real colleagues, we work in real
SPEAKER_00:teams.
SPEAKER_01:And I totally agree with you. I have so missed going into the office, even just once a week and seeing our colleagues.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing because when I first left private practice and the reason that I wanted to do that was for the flexibility after having the kids because I wanted to be able to do things like take them to school and pick them up and go to assemblies and things which anybody with school children knows that school's surprised with things at the drop of a hat and suddenly, can you do this in two days time? And after my first child, I had gone back part-time, but I found that hard in a way because flexible doesn't necessarily mean having fixed set of hours and fixed set of days off. It's about being able to do what you want to do when you want to do it. So, yeah, that's what Gunna Cup gives the opportunity to do that, but also... to have the office and the contacts as well, which makes it absolutely the best of both worlds for me. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:absolutely. No, definitely. It is funny, isn't it? Who would have thought that schools would do that? But it's the same in our school. Literally, you get a message saying, oh, we've got an assembly or we've got a trip or we've got something in about two or three days time. And I'm thinking, if I did have a job where I was in the office every day, that wouldn't be possible at all. So no, it's a funny one. But yes, you're right. That flexibility for us really just means flexibility to plan our day and plan our time, doesn't it? It does. Yeah, absolutely. So yes, we all miss each other a great deal. I know we do. We stay in touch on WhatsApp and we have our Friday afternoon drinks, don't we? But it'll be great to see each other in the office again. Not too far away, I hope. I hope so too. So what have been your high points and low points of lockdown? Wow.
SPEAKER_00:It's been such a strange experience, hasn't it? I suppose because none of us ever thought that anything like this would happen. And when I look back, real life seems such a long time ago. And it's definitely been up and down. I think I started with a positive mindset because I wanted it to be. a positive experience, particularly for the children. And one of the ways in which I solved that, for want of a better word, is by saying, well, you know, this is part of history. In years to come, we'll be in textbooks, people will be reading about, you know, this time when everything closed down, it's totally unprecedented. So I've kept a sort of lockdown diary in photos on Facebook every day since lockdown started and because I was doing that I wanted it to be positive so it's a bit like practicing gratitude where I try to find something positive in every day and to look at the things that you would have done but for lockdown but that isn't to say that it hasn't been without its its lows I think it is it has been very very challenging to balance not only working but also carrying on maintaining a presence and building your business because obviously all of us at Gunna Cook are not just employees we've all got our own businesses and so therefore you want to stay on the radar with homeschooling children and I've got three of three different ages and and all the other things that go in between that. So cooking and cleaning and providing entertainment and sorting out things that are broken. It's been a real challenge to try and fit everything in. And I'm sure everybody will say, I haven't always been successful at it. And there've been times when I have been bad tempered and snappy. And there are times when I've just wanted to go out of the house and speak to somebody that isn't in my family. And of course, that's not been possible. But on the flip side to that, I was worried about the effect on the kids of not being in school. But I think that being gifted this time with them where, you know, I've just never spent so much time with them and rarely seen... got to know them and got to know what they're good at at school and what they enjoy and what they don't enjoy. And also I've seen their relationship with each other develop because prior to this, they went to school, went into different classes, only saw each other after school and at weekends. So that's been really good. I think using Zoom and video conferencing to keep in touch with people has meant that some of those conversations have been much better and more real than would have had in real life particularly with family where i tend to so uh you know my parents live nearby i see them regularly but i don't you know i tend to go into the house i'll read their copy of the radio times because they still buy it um extortionately priced i wouldn't buy it myself but i do enjoy reading it you know they talk to the kids and we we we have lunch and we'd leave but you know we'd ever when you look back did we ever really have proper conversations where actually when you're staring at each other over a screen you do. We've got to know many of our neighbours who we knew a little bit but it's been really nice how we've all supported each other. We had a great day on VE Day with everybody having a socially distanced picnic in their front gardens and it was a beautiful sunny day and and joined together and we've really got to know our area. I live in Prestwich which is North Manchester. I've lived here for a long time and I know it reasonably well but with lockdown we've had to find different places to walk and really appreciated all these hidden beautiful places that are quite close to us. yeah so I think you know don't get me wrong it's not all being positive and there have been times and I'm sure that there still will be you know everything's still uncertain about the future when the kids will go back you know will there be enough work to sustain me going forward am I going to have a quiet time all that uncertainty is underneath but I think there's been a lot of positives and hopefully some of those things can carry forward after lockdown ends, which hopefully it will at some point.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah absolutely absolutely and I think many people will have been on that same journey with you absolutely that yes it's been tough having the children at home all this time but it's also given us an opportunity to do something that we never would normally have had and for their relationships to to grow as well so I've got three too not not too dissimilar in age to yours and yes they have really become good buddies I think it's not to say we don't have fights we do but yeah Yeah, it's been nice to see them grow together a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And I agree with you. We had a sort of street picnic on VE Day as well, so we saw that too. And I know something you've shared with us a few times is your Saturday nights.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yes, my Saturday nights. So... Before lockdown, there's a great little high-end wine shop slash bar local to Prestwich. Name check it, great to grain, great place. Branch in Prestwich, branch in Ramsbottom. If you're ever nearby, definitely go. The people that run it are excellent, very funny. And they were obviously extremely worried when lockdown was announced about their survival. So they came up with the idea. They ran weekly wine tastings sessions anyway where you could buy a ticket they give you three or four wines to taste talk you through where they came from and the grape and they're like well we can just do this virtually so every weekend my husband and I have had date night in the pub so we've sent the kids upstairs to watch a film told them only to disturb us if you know absolutely 100% necessary and we our wine has been delivered the day before and we have taken part in a virtual wine tasting on zoom and it's been fantastic because lots of the people that we know from there have also been on other friends have been on neighbours all sorts it's been a real community and Yeah, it's been a virtual pub that you just never thought would happen. Plus, my husband and I have actually spent some quality time together that we don't normally get because nobody will babysit for our children anyway.
UNKNOWN:They're not that bad.
SPEAKER_00:They're not that bad. Just a little bit wild.
SPEAKER_01:It's hard with three, isn't it? When I had two, it was easy to do a babysitting swap with friends. But now we've got three and not a lot of people have three. You don't feel you can send them anywhere.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, it's one of those things that you don't think about before you have three, but it's quite a lot to ask somebody else to do very often.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I loved your story when you shared it with us a few weeks ago about how you have date night on a Saturday, which you wouldn't normally have. So I thought that was really nice. Really nice, yeah. So what have you learned, whether it's about yourself, your family, your work? What have you learned during lockdown that you think might be useful to other people? I
SPEAKER_00:think I've learned quite a lot. I mean, I already thought that I was a reasonably practical person and wasn't overly phased by different things that happen. And I feel like it... know when you if you'd asked me a year ago how you would how i would have felt about the sort of being locked down and i've said i don't think i could possibly cope with that and i'd have fallen apart and i haven't done and i you know i'm i'm really pleased about that and that i've managed to balance all of these different tasks of you know child care and teaching and working and all of those things and that we've we've still retained most of our sanity probably not all of it so I think that's what I've learned about myself and I've also found that lockdown is although I don't feel like I've had some time in order to carve out some time I've I've done lots of seminars with organisations like Women in the Law, some of the barristers chambers that have done the remote lectures. I've read lots about the law because it's been such a changing time with all the legislation that I feel like that was, you know, as a lawyer, and I became a lawyer because I liked the law and I quite liked looking at the law, but actually in practice, you don't really do that as much as you would have thought you would have done. So actually, you know, reading the law as it develops and commenting on that and it's been really really interesting and I think I've met a whole new group of people virtually by taking part in events organized by women in the law and women lawyers and mothers and you know learn thought about lots of different different aspects of running a business so things like branding and networking and marketing that I probably didn't really think enough about before and one of the one of the steps that I've taken during lockdown is to start a series of vlogs rather than blogs and the thought of doing a vlog before lockdown I would have said no no That's not for me. I'm quite happy writing. I don't want to be on a camera speaking. I did some social media training and with the encouragement of other people who I've been speaking to, I recorded my first vlog. It's a series called Don't Let It Be You and it's designed to provide advice to businesses on how they might be impacted by the criminal law and some tips on how they can avoid falling foul of it. Yeah, so I've recorded that. I've posted it on LinkedIn and shared it and got over that sort of fear. And I just don't think I'd have done it ever without lockdown and without having that extra information or the confidence to do it. So yeah, it has. It's been a learning experience. I've also learned how to work Zoom. Well,
SPEAKER_01:absolutely. Yes, everyone has learned how to use Zoom now, haven't they?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, well, I've seen your vlog and it is excellent. So if anybody wants to check that out, it's called Don't Let It Be You, did you say?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And that's on your LinkedIn page. It is, yeah. And I'm hoping that the second one, the first one's about AML, anti-money laundering. And the second one is... is on health and safety legislation which is quite topical at the moment and i'm hoping that will be out at some point next week i've not recorded it yet oh that's
SPEAKER_01:excellent I love to see people learning these things because I mean it's sort of learning about marketing and branding and business development is something I've been doing for the last few years because of my second business and loved it and actually the more I talk to lawyers about it the more I think this is so relevant for lawyers as well not just if it's your own business and you're self-employed but for employed lawyers as well to learn about how we market ourselves how we brand ourselves how can we use LinkedIn better like you say videos or articles sharing our knowledge knowledge, making us stand out from others. And it's been really nice to see so many people use this time to try and learn a bit about that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. And I think it has a lot of people. I think, you know, it's a time when people are really reflecting on where they are and where they want to be and what they want to do. You know, some people have had lockdowns impacted everybody differently and you know I feel like we're very fortunate in many ways because my husband's job is secure and I've had work throughout lockdown so we haven't had any financial worries which you know I know a lot of people have and that's been really really difficult and I'm sure we'd be having a very different conversation if that had applied to me but you know, I think for many people, there are lots and lots of positives to come out of this time. So I hope, I hope there are anyway. I hope that going forward, you know, it'd be a bit of a different world. I
SPEAKER_01:think so. I do. Yeah, it will be so interesting to see how it is different, you know, law in particular, as well as everything else. Because I think this time has just given people that we can get sort of almost stuck in a rut where we get up each morning and we're doing the same thing every day, whether it's getting the kids out or getting ourselves to work or whatever, and never stop and have that time to think about, you know, what do I want for my future? What does my future look like? And this has suddenly given people time and space to do that. Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It will be very interesting to see how things change afterwards. Thank you so much for coming to chat with me, Sian. It was a pleasure.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for asking me.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, you're very welcome.