Friday Conversation with Jenna Atkinson, family lawyer at Harrison Drury

Jenna and I discussed the impact of Covid on her own relationship and what she has leant from her work with clients going through difficult family times in lockdown.  It was great to hear about how much importance Jenna puts on having a separation between relaxing and work time even when working at home.

Podcast host Hannah Beko is a self-employed lawyer, coach and creator of the Lawyers Business Mastermind™ (the place for entrepreneurial lawyers to grow).

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If you'd like to take part in a #FridayConversation, please do email Hannah@authenticallyspeaking.co.uk. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Hello everyone and welcome to another Friday Conversation. Today I'm joined by Jenna Atkinson, who's a family lawyer. So thank you for coming to join me, Jenna. Come on and introduce yourself to everyone. Yeah, hi everyone. I'm Jenna from Harrison Drury Solicitors. So I specialise in matrimonial finance work, divorce and children work mainly. So yeah, that's a bit about me. I'm usually based in Clivero, sometimes work from Preston office as well. But at the moment, obviously, we're all working remotely, which has been a change. So yeah, I'm in the office at home, just walk across the landing to work. And you were sharing some great stuff with me just before we started, Jenna, about how you think it's affected your relationship at home being in lockdown. yeah I mean I did say to my hubby because he works from home a couple of days a week anyway but I got the office because I do a lot more drafting than him and we have a big IMAX screen he's on the phone more of the time so he's now set up in the dining room but yeah I was just saying that obviously I'm dealing with some difficult situations with people breaking up in what I do in the day and if anything I've kind of cherished mine more in a way because I'm quite a social butterfly I'd say is fair usually and now I've been locked in with him I'm kind of I've never taken him for granted but I'm kind of um cherishing it more really so I think I'll have a few more Friday nights in from now on after this is all lifted because I think um I don't know, it just makes me laugh so much and I'm thinking you have so busy lives normally that sometimes you're just rushing about travelling and you just get home, have your tea and then you're going to sleep. So I think I've just cherished being at home more really. Yeah that's really interesting I think well obviously there have been so many ups and downs for everyone in lockdown as you and I were just discussing a moment ago but in terms of your sort of normal work did you work from home a lot before or is this all very new for you being at home all the time? No so I don't think I've only worked from home in evenings when I've been busy or weekends I've never I've always been at the office for working so I think I mean, I wasn't necessarily for home working before because I do like being in the office because we've got a really nice team of people. And I am missing that, to be honest, that interaction and seeing clients face to face. But I think long term, a mix would be good because I mean, I travel about 30 miles to Clivero and I'm It's kind of, I've just had more time to do things in the evenings and in the morning you're not stuck in traffic and things like that. So I think a mix of home and office would be brilliant in the future because we're all enjoying it really. it's interesting you say that because there's so many conversations now starting about um you know what will happen as we come out of lockdown and it's interesting that you say you weren't one who who either did work from home a lot and you didn't even you know necessarily want to but actually now you've had that experience it's something you do want to do more of so so do you see yourself doing you know one two days a week or something from home when when we get back to to new normal Yeah, I think obviously I'll just, we'll see what's said about it. But I think everybody's realised that, you know, we can work really effectively from home. And I mean, me included, I like being in the office area because I know I'll concentrate on things, whereas it's just like an office at home, really, because I've separated... that from my sanctuary in the living room, which I wouldn't ever work in there because I want that to be the evening space. I think that's important for mental health and everything to just separate the rooms in a way, because in the evening, I like the little log fire on and the dog lying on me and things like that. So I think it is important to have a different space. And I did watch a... webinar at the beginning of lockdown about it mentioned that and I think that's really important to just separate the two Yes, you're absolutely right. I mean, that is something I talk to people about a lot. You know, even if even if you don't have a separate office within your home, you know, can you have a corner of your living room or your dining room or something? And so that even mentally, that's your place where you go to work and then you leave it at five o'clock or six o'clock or whatever and go to your, as you say, your relaxing space. I think it's just having that mental separation between the two is so important. yeah if I had my candles on I would never concentrate so I keep the relaxing candles and all that I've got a thing about candles he's always moaning at me for buying candles but yeah that's like I like to keep that separate because obviously when you come in from the office usually you you'd go well i'd usually go straight to the living room or i'd have a bath and then go to the living room so that's like my chill out place so i wouldn't like that to become your working place yes i just think it's important so you do switch off at some point yeah no absolutely it is it's really important um so what have been your sort of ups and downs of lockdown you know what have been the good points what have been the difficult points for you I think the ups have been just similar to what I've said really just having more time in mornings and evenings just enjoying you know a coffee rather than usually I'll make a coffee put it in my car and set off so it's just having a bit more time for yourself because I'm always told I'm doing things for other people and in all honesty I don't make enough time for myself so I have I have really enjoyed that. And just on the sunny days, you know, taking the dog for really nice walks and, you know, things like usually you might not get the time to do it at night. So that's been really good. And I did start a Be A Little Kinder campaign at the beginning of 2020, which the gist was surprise someone with an act of kindness every week. And I've carried that on in lockdown, which... I've been trying to do two people a week, surprise them. And that's been really nice because when they've got the little card or gift, it's really cheered them up and made the day. And I know my godchildren have been sending me little pictures and that, you know, when you get things like that out of the blue, they really do make my day, to be honest. So I'm trying to do that for other people as well. And then probably the downsides have been, I mean, I do love my job and helping people through a really sad time but I have had a lot of quite difficult and sad situations in lockdown which obviously not going into the detail just talking about it generically but I've had a couple of domestic violence situations where people are so terrified of even being in the same house that they've felt they had to ring me and make an application and I find that so sad that people think home isn't a safe place because obviously I feel so safe here it's probably the safest I feel and I just find that very hard and I've had people really really upset on the phone to me about things like that so that's been quite tough and then the other issue we've had a lot of is children matters where the guidance was clear at the start for parents they could move between the homes and But unfortunately, some people have been using this as an excuse really to, you know, COVID just to not let the other person see the children. Some have had very valid reasons for that. Others, I do think, have just tried to stop. You know, one client of mine, he was just stopped seeing them without a very good reason. And obviously, it's hard enough, all of this, without seeing your children. So... think it's just been it's just been hard for a lot of people and obviously i'm just trying my best to help people through it and advise them on it but yeah it's been quite tough hearing what other people are going through really yes yeah well I mean I can't imagine doing property law as I do it just doesn't get quite as emotional as your work but yeah it's so sad as you say to think that for some people home isn't their safe place because you know in lockdown that's what our homes have become haven't they we're safe at home from the virus and to think that some people don't feel that is so sad yeah I think that's how I felt exactly how you just said it you just feel so safe here and we were joking before about the supermarkets you know going there's a treat at the moment but I mean sometimes in there even I think right I've got a list I've got to get in and out of there because being at home is safe and That's why I've just found it so hard when people have said the opposite to me about that. And, you know, they're in the bedroom scared about going downstairs. And I just think that's so awful for someone to feel that way. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I'm glad they've got you to call and to support them. But then that, you know, that is hard for you as well, isn't it? To be dealing with that. Yeah, I think one of, I mean, all our team, I know I can speak for all of us that one of the things that, well, this is why I wanted to work at Harrison Drury actually on the team because we just all really genuinely care about people and what they're going through. And I've always been that. I've never, I always wanted to do family law for that reason. And I just think if I can even help people a tiny bit, through all this and make a bit of a difference like that then that's all you can really try to do you just have to empathize and try and put yourself in their shoes as well because it's hard sometimes to understand the emotion because you're not going through it yourself um so you just have to you know empathize with what they're saying and just try and help really. And it's hard because face-to-face I think is invaluable usually. And we've obviously had to do a lot over the telephone and things like that. So I think I will be starting the face-to-face again if people want that because I think the initial meet with a new person, it's invaluable. You just get the rapport built up. It's more difficult on the phone. I think that's another thing I've found quite difficult. Yes, as you say, rapport and trust and really feeling like you know somebody is much easier in person, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's a northern thing, this, but I know I offer a brew every time I meet someone. Cause I normally want one as well. And I'm, you know, I'm, I'm always like that. If you feel a bit stressed or you're upset, just get a cup of tea or coffee. It's usually tea actually, if I'm crying, but I normally have coffee. I mean, I've had people burst out crying the minute they walk in because it is daunting when, and you know, a lot of people have been together a long time and then they, they take the step to come and see us. And I just find if you offer them a hot drink, it calms someone down a bit immediately, it does with me. So I just think that element of it, I am missing a bit because I just think it's hard initially because everybody I act for, I can picture them and I've met them. But obviously the new people, I can't picture them because I've never sat down with them. So it's... Yeah, I'm looking forward to a bit more of a normality. I think everybody is though now. Yes, absolutely. And I think that's the really interesting, I mean, I find it fascinating, the whole, you know, remote working and flexible working and how it's going to change for us lawyers coming out of lockdown. Because, you know, so many people wanted more flexibility and the ability to work from home, but nobody wanted it, you know, 100% or certainly nobody I've been talking to. And exactly for those reasons that you've said, you know, yes, being there with your team and your colleagues but being face to face with with your clients like you've said um that that's what you know that people want that still you know this i don't think there's many people that are going to go to say i want to work at home all the time i don't think that's going to happen no i think i mean we have a weekly team call which you get to see everybody and i do love that because we're just having the same banter and everything as we normally do um And then we, you know, talk about cases with each other and, you know, things that we were discussing like that. And we have a longer meeting every month, but I think, I mean, for me, it's more just, yeah, just that in real life, if that makes sense, because we all really get on and I just miss them actually, because people become like your friends as well, don't they? So it's, yeah. yeah I am missing that and I think even just going into the office like on a Friday we always have bake well I have bacon and egg on a Friday and it's like we all have a Friday treat so it's just little things like that you just miss um seeing people because I think we have quite a good um we all get on and have a good social side as well so it's it's um It's just different at the minute, isn't it, for everybody? But I think there's things to learn from it and there's things that are good from it as well. I mean, I've been really focusing on, you know, building up my confidence more because I'm not on my own. I can ring my bosses, you know, any time if I've got a query, but it's just... I feel more confident because I have been dealing with it on my own and you just realise that you can do a lot more than you think you can. So yeah, it's been, I think, I do think everybody, I'm hoping people come out of this kind of people and they cherish things more because I definitely am cherishing things that sometimes you don't even get the chance to. like the the sunset and nature and it's just things like that you realize everything that's around us it's I'm going to do that more than, you know, going for a Prosecco on a Friday. Sometimes now I might go for a walk in the sunset. Oh, I love that. That's, yeah, yeah, that's absolutely amazing. It really has been a time when people have realised things like that, you know, about what's, or re-remembered or re-realised, I think, because we can forget in the busy day-to-day life, can't we? But they've re-remembered what's important to them. yeah definitely I think the the thing I can't wait to do which I'm just waiting for someone to say you can hug your parents because I've just found that so hard not hugging my mum and dad um even though I'm 31 but I just yeah I just can't wait to just and my goddaughter she's always hugging me and I've not even seen her for 16 weeks so it's just um It's just hard, really. I think I am a hugger and I think the huggers of us are missing that. And yeah, I think when they start saying we can do, I don't know what the new normal will be, but I just miss the whole togetherness of everyone, really. And I mean, I was planning, I had some people from church round not long before lockdown and we had such a good night. and we were talking about that the other day and it's just doing things like that you know six of you sat around a table having a meal you just i won't ever take that for granted again just inviting people to your home and things because obviously we just have to stay with who you live with yeah some people have liked like me and then others haven't so yes yes oh i i know what you mean yes i i i miss hugs too and it's And even at the beginning of this, you know, even before we got as far into it as we are now, I said, you know, I think we should not shake hands with clients or the other side anymore. We should all just hug each other. I know that would. Yes, sometimes it can get a bit heated in court. So I think if we came out hugging, that would be different. I think when it gets to court stage. it's yeah I can't imagine us hugging after it but I do think people need to be I don't know I just hope people are more just nicer to each other because I've seen I can't think of any examples but I've just seen like people you know not in the past not being the nicest not in work but just generally and I'm hoping people are just nicer people really when they've had in effect, a lot of the freedom taken away. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And, and had to focus on something, you know, like the threat of the viruses, you know, having something major like that to focus on. I mean, if that doesn't bring out the best in people, then, you know, I don't know what would. No, I think, yeah, it's, I do think lessons can be learned from it for definite, for sure. And yeah, Yeah, I know it's easy to go back when everything gets back to more of a normality to say, oh, I'm going to cherish every day. But I do think I'm going to live by that more because sometimes when you wake up and you think, oh, it's dark outside in winter and you're thinking, oh, I've got to set off now and I'm just not going to have that attitude. I'm just going to live for the day more, I think.

UNKNOWN: 19:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 19:36

Yes, I like that. I really like that. And that's a fantastic note for us to end on. So I'd just love to say thank you very much, Jenna, for coming to join me. No problem. And happy Friday. I love this idea on a Friday. It's great. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks, Hannah.