The Law in Lockdown and Beyond, with Hannah Beko
A series of conversations with those in the legal profession navigating the ups and downs of the law during and after lockdown. How has this changed the profession as we've emerged from the global pandemic?
The Law in Lockdown and Beyond, with Hannah Beko
Friday Conversation with Rukshana Begum, Justice's Legal Advisor in Training - Overwhelm
For our first episode of 2021, I was delighted to be joined by Rukshana to talk about overwhelm.
We all have a lot to cope with, now more than ever.
It feels like a permanent state of affairs, and we don’t know when anything will change. But, now and then we get to the point where it’s not just a lot to do – it feels emotional as though it’s all too much.
We don’t feel that we have the emotional resilience to get through it all and we become completely overwhelmed by everything that’s on our plate.
Rukshana and I discuss how the pandemic and juggling full-time work and motherhood is impacting her personally.
You can find a handy guide to dealing with Overwhelm here.
Podcast host Hannah Beko is a self-employed lawyer, coach and creator of the Lawyers Business Mastermind™ (the place for entrepreneurial lawyers to grow).
If you are a legal professional, please feel free to join our free Facebook Group for networking, tips and support - Legally Speaking, a group for the legal profession by clicking here.
Visit Lawyers Business Mastermind™ for more details and to join us.
You can connect with Hannah on LinkedIn or visit www.authenticallyspeaking.co.uk.
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another Friday Conversation, the 1st of 2021. And I'm really pleased to be joined by Rukhshana Begum, who is a Justice's Legal Advisor in Training. Now, I'm sure she's going to tell us all a bit more about that. So, Rukhshana, come and introduce yourself to everyone.
SPEAKER_00:Hi, everyone. My name is Rukhshana Begum, as mentioned. And what it is, I started this position back in September 2020, so before the whole pandemic. pandemic started to be honest so the position is it was one to be honest I've been trying for this position for a while so I was really excited it's like a two-year training period as a family justice's legal advisor so at the Manchester Civil Justice Centre so it was like a dream job to be honest so yeah I remember a bit of your
SPEAKER_01:journey actually because we've known each other for probably two years or so now and I remember it was a position you've been talking about for a while so um it was it was really great when you when you started but so if you started that before the pandemic how how did sort of life and day-to-day work change based on you know how much time you would have spent in the office before the pandemic so i was
SPEAKER_00:yep so I was full-time five days in the office I didn't have to worry about my little boy who was in nursery drop him off my husband would pick him up so it was basically focusing on work I mean this is what something I've wanted for ages so getting there trying to do the training bit the learning and doing the job basically so five days full full days
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:and so
SPEAKER_01:how much of a culture change and a shock
SPEAKER_00:was it to come
SPEAKER_01:to the
SPEAKER_00:for me a big one um a little bit of background I started um working since I was like 16 full-time and I studied a lot part-time so I'd have like you know work and then evening classes weekend classes so for me I'd really separate my professional from my personal so um So it was definitely a big shock to me, to be honest, because I've always had my professional working at work, full work mode, 100% there. You know, I can concentrate and everything like that. And now it's just very difficult, very, very difficult.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, that brings us nicely on to one of the reasons I asked you to come and have a chat with me today, because I know you were at some training I did last week where we started looking at this topic of feeling overwhelmed. It was it sort of came up by accident, but I think it seems to have really resonated with a lot of people since we started talking about it. So this idea that we've all got a lot on our plates. I mean, everyone has. It's obvious. But I think for me, overwhelm is sort of that step further. It's not just busy. It's not just stressed out. it's when you actually feel that there's so much going on that you sort of don't really know where to start and you know even your rational um thinking goes out the window a bit so you don't even know where to get going um so i know you you were on that training and you had some thoughts about it so i just thought it'd be good to get your views on on this sort of topic of overwhelm and you know how are you are you feeling overwhelmed at the moment and what has it looked like
SPEAKER_00:to be honest um like you said like we all have busy lives um you know the job whatever what you do in it's busy at home it's busy but to be honest I don't think I felt that sort of overwhelm until now until the pandemic when you know both collide and then you just feel like you feel like oh god I'm not even you know you have really high work standards and everything and you want to get it done but you can't you have to be realistic you're at home like I'm shielding so every time bang shielding with a three-year-old it's impossible your trainer thought goes so then you just feel like I've got my to-do list I want to do this but it's just when you can't do it and like other things come in you just feel like oh god that's it overwhelmed and you just honestly you just feel like you're gonna burst maybe or something like that that's how it feels sometimes at that moment overwhelmed is when it's so much going on and you just can't you can't even take a step back to be at that point. You feel like you can't take a step back. But yeah, your session really helped, to be honest, just to put things into perspective. And it's really useful to know that I'm not the only one that's going through this. I mean, at that point, you feel like it's just you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah no I think you're absolutely right I mean there's quite a lot of overlap for me when I'm talking to people about stress and severe chronic stress and about overwhelm because it's almost the same sort of reaction that I think goes on with our brain in the sense that that rational logical thinking goes out the way because I think we can be busy we can have a lot on our plate but so long as we can still focus on each thing and as you say get through that to-do list and get it done then it doesn't seem quite so bad there's busy and getting through it and then there's is busy and overwhelmed or chronic stress where you just you're not even getting through it and you don't really even know where to start so I think it is a different thing to just busy do
SPEAKER_00:you think definitely definitely I think overwhelmed it can be at that point you feel it or it could be like you don't realize you're feeling overwhelmed and it's like a big a build-up and you just think you know I'll just keep going keep going keep going until you think you know what and then like something will happen and you think, you know what, this isn't right. Like a little thing will like tick you off. I mean, I'm rational, but a little thing you'd be like, oh, why isn't this? And that's when you feel like, nope, you need to like, really something's going on. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:no, no, absolutely. And I think that that's what a lot of people say, actually, that makes them feel better. The first thing, as you've said, is just to understand that you're not alone, that it's not any sense of failure or just you who can't cope, you know, the understanding that so many people I was going to say everybody I'm sure there's some people who are not feeling it but the vast majority of people are feeling like that in this situation because it has gone on for so long you know I think we can we can cope with certain things for a certain period of time we've got that resilience and things but actually this has gone on for nearly a year now it's testing
SPEAKER_00:everyone and I think for me I don't know about others but it's the not knowing that it's never going to end so it's like you're back in shielding or you know like you know school's out this is out everything and you're back so it's like you can't even like look forward to like you know it's gonna like oh it's gonna get better because you don't know it's gonna get better so in your mind you think okay I'll just keep going and then but then something else happens like another lockdown like we're on lockdown three now aren't we so you don't know how long it's gonna go and it's just I think that's a struggle as well the long period it's gone on for and they're not seeing maybe the light at the end of the tunnel I know it sounds really cliched but that's how I'm feeling anyway. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And I do think for us, us in the legal profession, us lawyers love a bit of certainty, don't we? So uncertainty, we're no good with that. Yeah. So I will, when I put the show notes together for this podcast, I will give everybody a link to the overwhelm guide that I put together for the session last week. But you mentioned a couple of things that were particularly
SPEAKER_00:useful
SPEAKER_01:for you. I
SPEAKER_00:mean, the first two point, I think when you feel overwhelmed, that's it, stop. Do you know what I mean? I think you just need to have a cup of tea or something like that. Just break away from it. And it's true. Don't keep going because it'll get worse. I feel like it's going to get worse. So you're feeling overwhelmed. Just stop. Stop. I mean, I think that's really powerful. We say it, but I think it's just really, really powerful. And the second thing you've put is it's okay. And, you know, it's so nice to just, those words, it's okay. You can just say it to yourself and you just feel like you calm down a bit and you're like, it's okay. Do you know what I mean? You're doing your best, you know, it's okay. So I thought that was really good.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, good. No, I'm glad. And I think that's right. I mean, for anybody who checks out the guide, it's a seven, eight point guide, but yeah, the first ones are stop. If you're starting to notice those feelings of overwhelm, you know, you're looking at your list or you haven't even written the list yeah and you just don't even know where to start um stop is the first one and take a step away because once your brain has gone into that sort of overwhelm overdrive um you're not going to think logically and rationally at that point so there's no point sitting there trying to you know have have a change whether it's get up make a cup of tea as as i suggest in there um you know i i am a fan of a tea and biscuit when we're struggling you know we need sugar we need energy sometimes so you know getting up and getting a snack and a cup of tea maybe a quick walk a look outside a breath of fresh air just something to break that cycle and to say right i've stopped um and then yeah yeah to just instead of beating ourselves up instead of the sort of why can't i cope why can't i get on with this you know joe blogs is getting on with this why am i not you know to think actually most people are struggling with this i'm not on my own i'm not different or failing everyone is struggling
SPEAKER_00:And I think that's really powerful when it's like, it's okay. Like other people are going through it. And I mean, like you said, Hannah, we can't be expected to do, you know, when you're in the office uninterrupted, you have that whole frame of mind, don't you? There's like other colleagues there. It's all like law, law, law. Whereas in your house, it's not it's totally different I mean just look at the interiors it's not even there I've got like behind me I've got like stuffed toys and everything like that so it's the focus it's just not there so it's just saying okay it's okay I can't I can't do probably that eight hours it probably like broken down to two or three and just being so I think I think all that is really powerful and the rest of your tips I think are brilliant because once you get over that initial bit yes you can start working on those bits I mean I'm sure you you can
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah Absolutely. I think that, yeah, once you've done the stop and the cup of tea and the biscuit and tell yourself it's okay, then you can get down to the, okay, so what really is on my mind, dump it all out, make a big list of everything that you're worried about. And then, yeah, cross off the things you can't change. You know, that was where we started, wasn't it? So many things that are not in our control. We might be worried about them, but we can't do anything about them. Physically cross them off that list because, you know, there's something even powerful in writing it down and then crossing it off. You know, you're sort of saying to your mind, saying to yourself, I'm not going to worry about that right now because I can't do anything about it. And then hopefully you're just left with the things that you can do something about and to decide what order to put them in and to tackle them. But yeah, it's like there's a book, How to Eat the Elephant or something, or there's certainly a saying, you know, how do you eat an elephant and one bite at a time, you know, and you have to start somewhere. And I think that that's what hopefully this this guide will help with. But yeah, the stop and the replenish, you know, get get get a drink, get some sugar, get something to eat before you start is really useful. But yeah. There was something else you made me think of, actually, when you were saying about lawyers being at home and accepting that we can't do it all. I think it is such a legal profession trait that we tend to be perfectionists. We tend to be good at our jobs and want to be good at our jobs. And I think the two just collide when you've got perfectionist people trying to be parents and homeschooling and then perfectionist people trying to do their six, seven hours a day work. I mean, the two can't work together, can
SPEAKER_00:they? No, it's like... I'll be honest it's impossible I mean to people that do it great. I need tips probably, but from what I've heard and, you know, even from the conversations we've had in the groups and stuff like that, it's, it's really impossible. And I think we're really hard on ourselves. I think we're really hard. Cause I mean, I've always been like my career, my this, like, you know, that's always been that. And then I've had my family and I can do, I can do that. But then when you have both, you feel like not doing, you feel guilty in both. Like you're not doing like, you know, you're not being a good mom or whatever, and then you're not being a good worker and it's just really hard and it's like like you said Hannah it's been going on for so long and it's just exhausting as well it's just so exhausting
SPEAKER_01:it is somebody was just sharing that with me earlier you know it is that sense of exhaustion and once again it's difficult to make decisions and focus when we're in the midst of exhaustion as well and that's another reason why the sort of stop and take a break works because we are all exhausted it's a stressful situation it's been going on for a long time and So what I'm wondering is, obviously we've talked a lot about overwhelm and I'm sure it's a situation that lots of people are going to resonate with. And, you know, even if they're not feeling it now, they will have felt it or they may feel it in time to come. But when you look back over this sort of pandemic year and lockdowns one, two and three, have there been positives for you? Is there anything positive you can take out from it?
SPEAKER_00:To be honest, I know a lot of other people have taken a lot of positives out from it. And for me, I think I would take the positive if Rizwan goes back to nursery like the whole working from home I mean we know as a legal profession it works I mean there's so many things that I can do probably at work that before they'll it would be like no you can't I mean they take telephone hearings now video hearings I mean before that that wasn't tested or trialed it was very limited so I mean the positives are like yes you can do all that and once hopefully when the pandemic and all the scare and all that stuff goes that it'll be really good like work-life balance, I think it'll be brilliant.
SPEAKER_01:ah you see I really like that because I I'm a big fan of work-life balance as you know and many other people um know if they've heard me talk about it but I feel as though this year in many ways hasn't done us favours because it's sort of shown people the worst of work-life balance and working at home as you say because you've got the children at home and home schooling and you know whereas for me living the dream working at home is dropping the kids at school and going to the coffee shop and you know yeah that's that's living the dream but I think you're right that there's this um this period we've got to get through and then we move into the next phase where hopefully the legal profession will be much more accepting of it and it'll be easier for us because the kids are back at school
SPEAKER_00:yeah definitely that's what i'm hoping and looking forward to to be honest because yeah the positives are if you think about it for me it's like between two to three hour commute i don't have to do do you know i mean i don't have to get into manchester or everything like that so in the like going forward if there was no like pandemic the whole work-life balance would be brilliant. I mean, it's there and it can't be argued. You can do the job from home.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, you're 100%.
SPEAKER_00:I've been doing it. I've been doing it since March, believe it or not, because I'm shielding, yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:So just my last question I like to ask people on here is, have you learned anything about yourself, about your family, about your profession that you think might be useful to other people in this space?
SPEAKER_00:For me, I've learned that I was very, I think I've always been very like personal professional I've always kept it separate and I've realized that that's very like it is forced to not be because you're basically putting your professional in your personal space so um I think I've learned a lot about myself in that respect that um sometimes I've learned that you know what you have to do the best you can do and through through this whole situation I've learned to be I think at this point sometimes um I mean I do have my ups and downs it's just to be kind to yourself and I think I got that from you Hannah and you know the groups that I'm with it's just being kind to yourself and I think we all just need to be that and stop like you know judging ourselves thinking like you know what that person's doing great that person's doing great why can't i and everything like that i think we just need to stop that all that and just be kind to ourselves so that's what i've really learned just to be kind to myself
SPEAKER_01:oh that that's brilliant to hear and and i think so many people could learn from that still you know we've learned it this year but i think there's some people who still need to hear it and we all need to remind ourselves um in fact it came up in a group today um there was there was a lady wanted some advice who's going through a difficult time and the group's advice was you know often when you know one door closes or something happens you know another door will open and you know there'll be some light at the end of the tunnel but their second piece of advice was for now just be kind to yourself just look after yourself and be kind and I think that's useful advice for all of us in this situation well thank you so much for coming to chat to me about overwhelm specifically I think it'll be really useful for lots of people And as I've said, if anybody listening would like to grab that overwhelmed guide, then have a look at the notes below this podcast episode. And thank you so much to Rukhshana for coming to join me. Thank you for having me.