Friday Conversation with Sarah Giles, former head of HR, now confidence and resilience coach

For our first episode of 2022, I was delighted to be joined for a chat by Sarah Giles.

Sarah and I met a few years ago and were united in our shared passion for lawyer wellbeing.

In this episode, Sarah shares with me why she decided to leave HR after 16 years and to create her own business as a confidence and resilience coach in the pandemic, alongside homeschooling!

We discuss the mindset shifts it takes to build your own business and also Sarah shares her tips for building more confidence and resilience. 

Do connect with Sarah on Linkedin here https://www.linkedin.com/in/s-giles/

About your host, Hannah Beko

Podcast host Hannah Beko is a self-employed lawyer coach and corporate trainer for the legal profession.

Hannah has also created the Build Your Legal Business Podcast which you can find here https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/build-your-legal-business/id1569422462

If you are a legal professional, please feel free to join our free Facebook Group for networking, tips and support - Legally Speaking, a group for the legal profession https://bit.ly/fblawyers

Do connect with Hannah on Linkedin here https://linkedin.com/in/hannahbeko/ or visit www.authenticallyspeaking.co.uk.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:03

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Friday Conversations. It has been quite a while since I've been to you with a new episode so I'm really excited about this one. I've asked Sarah Giles to join me who is a former head of HR at a law firm and is now a confidence and resilience coach. So I personally wanted to hear all about Sarah's journey out of HR and legal firms and into her own business as a coach and I thought other people would be interested in it too. So welcome, Sarah. Tell everybody a little bit more about who you are and the work you do. Well firstly thanks for having me Hannah, it's great to be on here. Yeah so as Hannah said I'm a confidence and resilience coach so I work with individuals that perhaps at a stage in their life where they're feeling a little bit overwhelmed with everything but also a bit frustrated with themselves because they want to make some changes but they haven't quite got the confidence to take that first step. So it might be a career change, you know it could be going into business, just different life transitions.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09

So

SPEAKER_00: 1:10

what made you decide to come out of HR and move into this world? Good question. So it's been a massive journey. So actually, over the last few years of my career in HR, I started getting really interested in the wellbeing side of things. And I, obviously I dealt with, you know, from working in HR, I dealt with a lot of different cases over the years, perhaps where, you know, employees were experiencing burnout, you know, lots of different things where people are struggling with work-life balance. I thought I'm really interested in this area. And I started actually a coaching diploma in resilience because it was always something I was obviously interested in. And then I, COVID hit and it really accelerated some change for me because I had an opportunity to sort of pause a little bit and think about what I wanted to do. I was in a very busy role, I've always been the type of person that had put everything into my career so I was always working hard but I was also juggling a family and So COVID really was the thing that accelerated some changes for me. And how have you found the journey? I know we were just discussing it before I hit record, but we were discussing that it's not necessarily what you expect when you go out and set up your own business. No, it has certainly been the biggest personal development journey I think I've had. Yeah. I think when you're employed in a role and you've got that security, haven't you? But also, I've always been the type of person, I love a challenge and I would always involve myself in lots of different projects and opportunities. Didn't really ever think about mindset. Didn't think I had any mindset issues until I came into business and suddenly realised that I probably naively actually thought before, it can't be that difficult, you know. But the transition has been a massive journey for me. I think when you're a business owner, you know, you do it because you want to do things that you're passionate about. So whether that's coaching or other areas. But what you find and what can be really daunting at the start is that you suddenly... you're spending time on areas that aren't really perhaps your expertise so for example you know sales and marketing that is not my area of expertise neither is the technology and so I held myself back a lot at the start I wasted a lot of time energy you know we start you start then perhaps doubting yourself, thinking, gosh, is it worth it? Is it not easier to go and get a job again and have a paid salary? All of these things came up. But I think the thing I've learned is it's about taking those small steps, because if you do too much, I think we can get really enthusiastic at the start, thinking I want to achieve all of these things. But then we come across these mindset, perhaps blocks, that we need to work through. And it's taken me a long time to work through some of them, and I still am. It's not easy, as you probably know, Hannah. Yeah, no, I'm with you 100%. I as some people know oh and I will be talking about on the podcast to celebrate 10 years of my business birthday in February for my legal business so I know what what exactly what you mean I've had 10 years of the legal business and then five years of the coaching and training business so I've seen it and do you know what's really interesting is that even when you might have got through certain mindset blocks and issues with one business it doesn't mean they don't just pop up again, even in something else. So just when you think, oh yeah, I've cracked charging and having conversations about money and telling people what my fees are, you know, in the legal business, no issues doing that whatsoever. But yet when you bring it over into another business, it's the whole same thing again. So no, I know you and I have joked about mindsets, particularly around selling and, you know, how do I, how do I get out there into the public what I know people need and I know will make a big difference for them but I'm too scared to tell them because it's going to sound salesy yeah that's exactly it it's taken me such a long time to even to do a you know a simple sales post or you know to even every time somebody would ask me about my prices I'd be a bit like oh please you know almost cringing inside because I didn't want to say it because it's something I haven't been used to doing. You know, working in HR, I never had to really do any sales and marketing. So it's just a very different skill set that I've had to, I wouldn't say I'm not 100% there at all, but it's learning and it's good. And actually now it's about, the message I say is about, you know, recognising your journey and the progress that you make along the way. Yeah, I think that's really true. To be honest, I think that's what gives us as coaches almost that credibility and more material to work with our clients on because we're a work in progress all the time. And I don't know about you, and I'd be interested to see what you think, but in my early couple of years as a coach, I hit a stumbling block because at first I thought, yep, I've got all these tools. I know how to help people with their mindset, with their limiting beliefs, all these, you know, I know their phrases that us coaches use a lot, but we explain them to our clients. They get it. But I thought I had all these tools. And then suddenly when I would hit a block again, I suddenly thought, oh, so I don't have all the answers. Should I even be doing this then? And it took me a while to realise that it's never about having all the answers. It's about knowing, actually, I have hit another stumbling block and this is what I need to do to work through it. So we can tell our clients that. Yeah, absolutely. I totally relate to that because I've almost been in situations where I felt like a bit of a fraud. It's, you know, thinking, oh, oh I've got this issue popped up now and should I really be coaching somebody else to help them with their blocks when I've still got issues but like you've just said Hannah as a coach you know we're always developing we're always quite well as individuals and it's just about that journey and we find with especially when we talk about the mindset you know once you unravel some things there's more it's like you open up a can of worms because there's more to deal with, but you have the tools then to be able to navigate it. Yeah, it's so true. I know I was working with, with a group of clients and, um, I remember them saying at certain points that actually this is not easy stuff. And now I've started to dig and started to deal with things. Now other things are coming up and, and I had to say to them, you know, it's not easy, but you know what, when you come out the other side and you've got, you know, other skills and other tools and you're able to deal with things, that path is so much easier than sort of burying it all down and avoiding it. Um, And I always say to them, it's as uneasy as it is to go through some of this stuff, it's so much easier than not dealing with it, which is what so many people do and just push it down and push it down physically with things like, you know, alcohol in the legal profession has been the traditional one or comfort eating or even over exercise or over healthy eating. You know, we hide our feelings and our emotions with all these other things because dealing with them doesn't feel that comfortable. But actually, in the long run, it's so much better, isn't it? Yeah, definitely. And I think that's one thing, you know, in the law profession as well, people not wanting to look like they're failing. It can be a massive thing, can't it? So it's better to try and hide it than actually talk about it with somebody. Yeah. Yeah, it is. But, you know, I like to think that we're slowly changing that. Yeah. I always say to people, there's absolutely no failure in reaching out for help. And actually... It's what's the strong thing to do. It really is. And you'll come out of the other side of it so much stronger as well. Definitely. I've, you know, like you said earlier, Hannah, as well, you know, when you're a coach early on as well, you have all these tools suddenly and you think I should be able to go and, you know, help all these people. And perhaps a bit resistance to actually getting some support ourselves is, um but I've worked with coaches now you know to help me because I know it's going to make me a better person a better coach and I can get through my own blocks quicker with somebody else's support than me trying to unravel it yeah I don't know if you've found like I do you sort of become a bit of a um you know you sort of get addicted to it in a good way because once you've had coaching and everything you can't sort of go without it then I think you see the power of it so I don't know that I'll ever not be working with people in some shape or form um myself because you just get so much out of it definitely and working with different people you do you learn so many different things don't you from different people yeah you do you do absolutely so who are your what sort of clients do you really like to work with who have been your favorites I don't mean names or anything but you know So good question. No. So I've tended to work with women in their careers that are perhaps either, you know, find it challenging to perhaps speak up in meetings, lack a bit of confidence there, or perhaps they want to go forward for that promotion. But they haven't, again, had the confidence to perhaps apply for it. And I've worked with people that perhaps, you know, they've had a period of time out. So again, there's a thing with the confidence, but their confidence has taken a bit of a hit. And it's transitioning either back to the workplace or looking at what else they would like to do in the future. So I think I have worked with a whole different range of people through my studies, mostly with, you know, people with perhaps long-term health conditions, people that have reached burnout, people that have had relationship issues. So I've been able to work with a range of people, which has been great, but I always come back to those people in their careers. And I think, and it does make sense with my HR background. Yeah, I assume you find it really useful, the background you had in HR to translate into your coaching.

UNKNOWN: 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:28

Yeah, definitely. I think it's massively been a huge benefit, especially I seem to have attracted actually some HR professionals, but also some lawyers. And I think that's because of where I've worked before. So, and being in those pressurised environments and As you know, you know, in professional services, it can be challenging. So I think having that background and that awareness can really benefit. Yes, I think that there's always a big debate going on, isn't there, about how as a coach you don't have to have done the job of your clients. And I do get that. And often I work with coaches who are not lawyers and don't know the legal world. But I do think there is something to be said for understanding where people are at. As you say, in legal and professional services, it's a similar sort of pressured environment. I think a lot of clients appreciate that experience, don't they? Yeah, and I think it gave me... It's given me the confidence as well as a coach, especially at the start. I think it really helped me because I felt like I could really add some value and support them on their journeys because I had that... background knowledge of how it worked in their industries. Yeah, yeah. So as you know, this podcast is, well, started in lockdown and so sort of carries on the theme of the law in lockdown and afterwards. So we'd love to know what have been your highs and lows of the last, well, two years now? No, that's crazy, isn't it? Where have the last two years gone? The highs, okay, should we start with the highs? Well, I suppose I have the confidence to make that change myself. And it was scary to leave my HR career behind because it's all I'd known for 16 years. So that was a high, although it's been a challenging journey. It's been really rewarding and I've enjoyed it. being able to have that freedom, you know, to just to work the hours that I want to be around for my children because they used to have to go to after school club a lot of the time. So that's been, you know, having family time has been great. Some of the downsides were obviously having to deal with the homeschooling, which is definitely not my area of expertise, I have to say. No, mine neither. So that was a challenge in itself, trying to navigate that as with a lot of working parents. But I think also that has been difficult is I suddenly had been working in an office environment in the workplace for 16 years and I'm then suddenly at home. Now I know obviously a lot of people have We've all been at home a lot of the last two years. But as lockdown then, you know, things started to open up, I suddenly was like, oh, this is it now. You know, I'm at home all the time. And you sometimes do miss that interaction, you know, even if it's just grabbing a coffee, putting the kettle on in the office. So I think that's been... it's it's something I wouldn't say I struggle with but you miss you do miss the little interactions with people but I think what I've learned it's about building that network around you of other business owners what doesn't have to be business owners but people that you can just have a zoom chat with or coffee to keep you connected with other people yeah oh absolutely I know exactly what you mean. I found this in the early years of my business. I did about three years at home because I've been so adamant that working from home was my dream and it should be possible and I could do it. And I loved it for three years until my stress levels were through the roof. And yes, in part was the hours I was working. But I think a big part of that was just being in the same place all the time and without, as you say, human interaction with other people other than my kids. And so it was, I realized even then, and that's why I did struggle. similarly in the pandemic that at least one day a week I needed to be somewhere else whether it was working in a coffee shop meeting people for coffee great but even if I was just working there because I was around the energy of other people yeah and it makes a big difference doesn't it Definitely. It just helps give you that boost and that motivation, I think, to actually get some of your tasks done as well, because we can easily go make another cuppa and distract ourselves, I think. Well, that's certainly been a learning for me whilst at home. You know, you can easily go and do different things. So it's being mindful about your time and what you're focusing on. Yeah. Do you know, I was laughing there because as coaches, it's so funny because when you've learned these tools, you're like, oh, I'm procrastinating. Yeah. Now I recognize, oh, I'm just thinking about the washing that doesn't really need doing. But shall I go and check the washing? And I've walked around and done nothing for the last half an hour. But you catch yourself thinking, so why am I procrastinating? What is it? No, it is in a way, it's funny as a coach, isn't it? Because you recognize all these behaviors. So at the end of each week, I do now a lot of the time challenge someone because there will be things, there's normally things every week, isn't there, that we might, there's that task that you don't really want to do. And I challenge myself now if I've come up thinking, what's my excuses been? You know, why haven't I done that? Because it's easy, isn't it? When you're your own boss to avoid doing things. It is, it is easy or it's easy to do the stuff that's in your comfort zone or that you find easy to do. which is not often the things that the business needs, I find. Which is, yes, constant, constant learning for myself. And then I love to challenge my business owner clients on it as well. So no, I know what you mean. So I was going to ask you, but you may have said it already. What's been one of the biggest learnings you've had in the last two years about yourself or the legal profession or any of those? I would say my biggest learning is actually creating that time for me might sound a bit but in terms of we run around don't we from different things our to-do lists and I know certainly when I was in my career you know I hardly ever you know you just run from meeting to meeting get home and it's looking after family before you know it you know it's the end of the evening you've done some more emails and And I never I've never really got off that hamster wheel because I was just doing it all the time. And so when I made that decision to finish, I suddenly thought, oh, my goodness, I've actually now got time to breathe and properly, you know, work out what I want to do. And also do some of the things that I enjoy again, like I used to like running and just things like that, that I just lost sight of because I was always busy. And I say when I say busy, like we lose ourselves amongst the busyness sometimes, don't we? But it's not necessarily things that are going to add value. We're just used to doing it. Oh, yeah, we're used to being busy. I often say this. We get, again, addicted to the busyness and we get addicted to the stress and our brain gets used to it. And it looks for ways to do it. Definitely. It really is a retraining, isn't it, to get out of that? Yeah. And it's taken me obviously a while, but I would say that I've got into meditation and things like that. And that's really massively helped me. Oh, well, you know what a fan I am of that. Everybody who ever hears me talk is top tip, meditation, solve everything. Meditation, literally. I mean, let's put it that way. Fantastic. Now, this is this is a question that I'm going to put you on the spot with because I didn't mention this. But with your sort of 16 years HR background. What do you see as being sort of the challenges, if you like, for law firms from a HR perspective, particularly? I mean, I'm seeing all the things about, yes, great resignation and struggling to recruit people and things like that. Do you see that there could be big HR challenges potentially? Yeah, definitely. I think so much has changed over the last couple of years as well, hasn't it? And law firms... historically I know we're moving with the times a bit now but perhaps have never done things like working from home not all law firms obviously but some perhaps more traditional law firms have never looked at home working prior to Covid so I think that's great but in a way that's been a positive that has come out of that but I think now the thing is looking at how they can navigate things now that we're getting back to some, I don't like to say normality now, because I think it's all been so crazy. But I think the challenge is now is working out, you know, how they want to take things forward with their employees. And are they going to keep with, you know, have some hybrid working? But also people have had time to think during that time. COVID period, the lockdowns. And it has questioned, I think, quite a few people in their careers about whether it's the right thing for them. Particularly in law, we know it's a very pressurized environment. And people have suddenly then been able to perhaps enjoy some time with family or been around a bit more than what they had before because they were always in the office. So I think there's lots of different challenges in looking at how things are going to move forward. And yeah, recruitment will be, it'll be interesting. I mean, obviously I'm slightly out of, been out of law for a little bit, but I think certainly it's, it's a very fast paced, can be very fast paced, lots of change as well. So it's keeping up with things that are going on. Yeah. I think it's, it's going to be a really, I mean, it's already been an extremely interesting time, but as you say, even coming out to, again, I also don't like to use the word normal, but we are coming out into the future now and we have to decide how it goes from here, don't we? Yeah. Interesting times. I think, you know, a lot of, I'm sure there's going to be law firms thinking about premises and stuff. Do they need the same amount of premises? And now that people are working from home more, Yeah, it's going to be a big reshuffle, I think, a big reshake up. And that will be interesting, definitely. So before I let you go, since your, you know, your favourite topics to coach on, I know what you're really passionate about is resilience and confidence. Have you got one or two sort of top tips that you might give to people for how they could improve confidence and resilience?

UNKNOWN: 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:11

So I think with confidence, we always think that we have to be confident before we do something. And so that then perhaps stops us from doing the one thing we perhaps need to do. And so I just say... It's about practicing because the more we practice, the more competent we get in a particular area and the more confident we'll feel. So it's just about taking those. And I always talk about people must get fed up of me saying this all the time because I always say it's all about the small steps. And I say that because a lot of the people I work with, and I'm talking about myself here as well, because it's how I, you know, you're more likely to then, achieve those bigger goals sometimes we look at things and you know put these big scary goals down which is great to stretch ourselves but then we get overwhelmed because that's all we see and then we miss the strategies in between to actually help us get there Yeah and we sometimes because the small steps which I'm a huge fan of as well are so small you might think I can't see how that's going to get me anywhere because it in itself is small but you're absolutely right those small steps add up. Yeah and I think with the resilience piece it's around looking at your problem solving skills and actually when you're you know we all say I can't do that or I'm not confident enough to do that but it's actually looking at different ways of doing things, being a bit creative about things, because there's always different solutions. Yeah, definitely. I love that. There's always a way, as one of my friends says. There is. Even if it's reaching out to somebody, that's a step in itself. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01: 26:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:06

Fantastic. Now, where could people find out more about you, Sarah, if they want to hear more about your work? So my website's actually having a bit of a revamp at the moment, so it's not, but I'm over on LinkedIn, Sarah Giles, and I am on Instagram. wow look at me with my social media I'm technically on Instagram but I have zero idea about how it works or what to do with it so I sort of randomly just put things on so you're probably doing better than me I'm sure I try I try these things no that's brilliant well I will in the show notes I will make sure that we put a link to your LinkedIn and as and when your website is back up and running just let me know that and i will always update the notes with that as well so people can find you thank you very much for coming to join us it's been great thank you for having me very welcome