Relentless - S07:E23 - Episode 137 - Peter Panayiotou

From selling cars to becoming the best in Europe.

Filmed in London 🇬🇧

Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJkuXaD7_0JPNzYKMuIaMeZxA-F16YgzN

The latest episode of Relentless: Life On Your Terms features a guest who embodies discipline, consistency and elite performance — Peter Panayiotou.
Peter’s journey started on the showroom floor at Toyota.

No shortcuts. No special treatment. Just a relentless commitment to mastering his craft.

Within just a few years, he became the #1 salesperson — not only in the UK, but across all of Europe.

So what separated him from everyone else? In this episode, we break it down:
🚗 The fundamentals of sales that actually drive results
❌ The strategies that most salespeople get wrong
🤝 Why a genuine, client-first approach will always outperform pressure tactics
🧠 How consistency beats talent when talent doesn’t execute

But the biggest lesson? Sales isn’t about convincing people. It’s about serving them. Understanding their needs. Acting in their best interest. Building trust that lasts beyond the transaction. That’s what creates not just results — but longevity.

This is a conversation for anyone in sales, business, or leadership who wants to perform at a higher level without compromising integrity.

🎧 Now live on Relentless: Life On Your Terms

#RelentlessPodcast #Sales #Leadership #Entrepreneurship #HighPerformance #ClientFirst #LifeOnYourTerms

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I would rather upset someone by being honest than upset someone by lying. And people always choose the latter.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Welcome back to another episode of Relentless Life on Your Terms, season seven. As I promised, bigger and better, going international. Here we are in London with a friend I've known for over 30 years, Peter. Peter, how are you? Hi, Chris. I'm good. Thanks for having me. Now you have a very, very interesting journey. We're going to talk about every facet of that, covering what an amazing salesperson you are, into the great business that you've built, into your philanthropy, which is a very close thing for both of us. Let's start right at the start.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

So I guess I maybe had a very skewered uh view of the world at that time because working in a family business, as you know, uh is is is quite tough. Um but a lot of what I learned um was a mixture of working from very, very young in terms of manual labour. So hard work. Cutting potatoes, uh, you know, not just the prep, the clean down. I saw a business that ran six days a week that even though the doors opened at 12 p.m., the what work started at 7 a.m. And then even though the business closed at 10 p.m., uh, 12 p.m., we're still there packing down.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

So you saw the prep and the window, so you saw what it took. It wasn't just the trading hours. Yes. Which is probably something you've taken into your business, which we're gonna cover. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yes. Now I I I would like to say my father was a great businessman. He was a very hard worker, very charismatic, but unfortunately not a very good business brain. So um I learned from him hard work and manual labour. But when I was 19, um and I got my first job, which was selling cars for Toyota UK.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Now, you're a very successful salesperson. You started very, very, very young. So I want to talk about that. You are salesman, best salesman two years in a row. Tell us a bit about your journey and how young you're as a principal. Now I know the journey, but share it with us.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Thank you. So, you know, arriving at 19 with my experience, you know, within a business world, you know, selling cars to me at the time sounded really glamorous. And I remember reading the newspaper, you know, with the job being available at that at that point in my life. I'd never been for an interview, but I always in my head had very good confidence. I would say one of my greatest skill sets is building rapport and people and people. And the reason for that is I went to ten different schools. So always being the foreign kid, you know, the only Greek in the village, uh, I learned to build that rapport very quickly and make friends.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Because you had to.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Because I had to, as a survival mechanism. I was always the new guy, and you know, racism in England, you know, back then wasn't, you know, it it was it was quite fragile. There was often, you know, threats uh, you know, from local lads, but I built a skill set to diffuse things very quickly and make people laugh.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Which was being hospitable, having good relationships with skills. So the how did that help in sales, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

So when I went for the interview, you know, uh it was like oh, it's first day at school. Yeah. Right? So, you know, building rapport with the manager. I had no idea at that point about Toyota as a brand. We knew it from Cyprus, you know, the Toyota pickup trucks. Of course. Uh, but I I landed at a company that could have that was the best place for me to be. Toyota is as as the world knows it, is one of the most and is the most reliable car in the world, Toyota and Lexus. It's fact. So I didn't know at the time, I guess that God was giving me the best product because the the range at the time, the Corolla, the old cars were were not sexy at all. They were really, really horrible looking cars. But I I nailed the job. I remember to I was put in a position when my parents got divorced that I I had to step up, I had to pay my mum's mortgage in effect and contribute to the household. So I didn't really have a decision to make in terms of going to university.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

You had action, you need to make money.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

I needed to make money now. Um, so it was all by accident the way I read the you know the article. But I've got into Toyota, and again, I remember the first day, and everyone was telling me, you don't know what you're doing, don't talk too much, just listen to what we do. I did the opposite. I ran to the customers, I had no idea about the product, but I was building rapport in the way that I knew how getting coffees, getting teas, putting them in the car, driving them around.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Being of service.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Being of service. First day I did a hat trick. I was known as the hat-trick hat-trick kid. And I remember at one point uh when we took them to the finance desk, the guy's going, he's looking at his wife. She's you know what, it's a great deal, but you know what, we'll think about it and we'll come back tomorrow. And I'm like, no problem, sir. And and my manager's looking at me going, Shut up, shut up, yeah, you know, but they did buy the car, they did sign. So I was doing something maybe that wasn't uh, you know, drilled sales, but there was something. And I remember the guy saying, What is this guy doing that we're not? Right? So at the time, the manager I had, uh our branch out of 14 branches across the Curry Motors group, uh, that the Jaffe family owned, very, very wealthy family from South Africa, and cars was their thing. Been doing it since the the late 70s.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

They had like 14.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Well, 14 branches at that time, only in the UK, but they had franchises uh for different brands of dealerships uh uh in America and around the world. So the way that things worked there was we were always put in leagues and leaderboards, not just amongst ourselves as a team, but other branches.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

So it's competition with our opposition that wanted to push you to get greater and greater.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yeah. So when when when I had this manager, have you ever heard of the pendulum closing technique?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

No.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

So pendulum is as it says, you know, it's a pendulum that swings. So you sit down with the client, and this is what this manager taught me to do, which was really against all of my grain. This just felt alien to me. The client, you know, the cars nine double nine five. The client will say, I'll go ahead if you can do it for nine two fifty. So you get a bit of paper out, you get them to write in effect, can you please put your offer here? 9250. I'm just gonna go and speak to my manager to see if I can agree this for you. And I was be the pendulum. So I'd go to his office and he he would not agree it by putting a sad face. And I remember at that time when he did that, thought this is stupid. I can't believe I'm gonna go back now with a piece of paper in a main dealer toyota ship with a client to say, sorry, it's a sad face. He said, No.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

It's like an emoji.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Yeah. And I'd go backwards and forwards. And I remember one time just ripping it up and saying, you know what, I'm not doing this. You know, this is what we can do. I kind of bypassed him, I signed the contract, and he was furious. Why? Because I didn't do it the way he wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

But you got the sale.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

And yeah, I've experienced that in every company. They want me to do it a certain way, and I'm always professional and within the company guidelines. But I know how to close a client, I know how to build rapport, and I'm always listening to what the per person wants.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

You said that to him on the car here, and it fascinated me as you have grown and evolved, because every person aspires to get better and better. When you get a new job or a new position before you started the business, which we'll talk about later, you don't talk for a week. That's right. And what share with me what you shared with me in the car.

unknown 7:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Uh when I went when I got headhunted and you go to a new business. Yeah, when I go to a new business, I'm a mute for the first week. I'm a mute. I just listen to what everyone is doing, how things feel, what clients are saying. Even even in the service area where people are getting their cars serviced and getting a coffee, I would sit among them and just listen. Why? Because I like to hear what is going on. Once I have a viewpoint from everyone, not within the business, but also externally.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

So what they're saying.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah, it allows me to build the correct narrative of what the business is doing, correct or not correct.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

I looked at things when I was in sales, I did things something slightly different. I'd always ask, who's the best closer in this office? And I can name every role that I've done who it is. And then the second question was can I spend a week with them? And I used to shadow them. So door to door was Mario, on the phones was Barry, uh Fastway Kuros was Colin, uh in homes was Valerio. So I knew them and I wanted to just learn by side by side because I knew that they're doing something right. I wanted to know how they are getting their leads, how are they closing, but what can I bring into my game to get better and better at what I do? So it always interests me what different people do, but listening is always a very, very kick.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Did you say doing that by shadowing someone who's more experienced? In effect, it's a mentor, isn't it? You're getting a mentor for a week or two. Did you say that helped you evolve quicker?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

I knew that, but I also wanted to see in this business, in this product, in this company, who's doing the best and why? So I'm gonna give you an example. When I got uh the job at Fastway Curious, I asked him, I can ask you a question, sure, Chris. Is there any leads here? After I've asked that he goes, as many as you want. Just wait a second. I'm like, this is unbelievable. I've come from door knocking, tally my. Whatever, give me anything, I'll call it. Comes in, bangs like a white or yellow pages book at the time. Call that there's as many as you want. And I started laughing.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah, yeah. Of course. Yeah, then um So there's there's a saying, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

The hot leads, the warm leads, and the said to the guy, uh, I go to Colin, how are you generating all these sales? And he goes to me, Do you see this here? I go, Yeah, this is Sydney. This is who's getting all the sales in Sydney. So I go into the same branches in Melbourne and I say, I'm your preferred supplier in Sydney. That's my leg, and that's the warm door.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

And he closes them and I said, Just that one sentence.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Because he's got the preferred, he's got that confidence, and everyone did something different. Barry would smile, he's a telemarketer, and he's got a mirror, and he's smiling at himself all day. What are you doing? He goes, It shows my attitude. How I look is how I speak on the phone. So all day he's smiling, and he can maintain his attitude. They all had little techniques, some work, some you got to bring them into your personality.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

But it helps to see the person say the right thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

I've known Chris for since I was 12 years old. 34 years. One of his 34 years to be exact. I think you're exactly the same, to be fair. You haven't changed much. I like to think I haven't either in certain ways. But when uh when we lived in Cyprus together, we were playing pool, uh place called Wise Place, I believe. Remember? Very famous spot, playing pool. We had our 20 cents, you know, five or six of them stacked up on the table. We're enjoying ourselves. I think we had some female uh classmates there, there's a couple of the guys, you know, it's it's it's it's like Greece, right? We're playing pool. A couple of the older kids rock up, I think they were specifically Greek kids, right? They weren't they were from the island, so there was a bit of aggression there, but I think they were must have been 18, four or five years older than us. Uh so the the guy comes over and he says, I'm playing next. And you say, No, you're not. And he goes, We're playing uh the misimaxumen, we're playing next. You said no, we're we've we're we're here for a while. You ain't playing next. So he looks at you, looks at the coins, and throws off the coins and he says, I'm playing next, and puts his 20 cents. You get down on the floor, you pick up all the 20 cents, polite, kind, you put them all back and you say, No, we were here first. This went on uncomfortably, I think, for a good five or ten minutes. Uh but that's what you have for something that's just and something that's right, you're relentless. There was no you would have caught, you were gonna cop a beating. He was about he was about to start kicking the shit out of all of us. And then thankfully someone goes, You know he's Zen's brother, right? And your brothers, as we know, are famous badasses that no one would mess with. So as soon as he heard you went, Oh, Zen, I mean, he dusted you down, and he went, I'm so sorry, you are next. That mindset is something that stayed with me. Uh, that you're you're you unwavering, whatever the whatever the situation.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Why the podcast called Relentless.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yes. I I would love to tell it, but I think it may tarnish both our reputations, uh, what we got up into the classrooms in in Cyprus. Um, I think the the the story I'd like to share is when I saw you after many, many years. I think the last time I must have seen you was 15, 16. Yeah. And then I think we it was about we were about 20 years old, 21, when I came to Australia for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Uh you picked me up, and I and I your nickname back then was Pee-Wee, because the Pee Wee Herman was before my time at the school. And I said, uh, how are you, Pee-We? And he goes, 'No one calls me that anymore.' I had a shaven head that looked like the act. Yeah. You had your George Michael earring, right? Yeah. Was it a Falcon, Ford Falcon you were driving at the time? Five liter.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

That was a Holden, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

A Holden, yeah. So you instead of driving me anywhere, you drive me straight to the snooker hall because we had a bit of friendly rivalry when we used to play when we were younger. And you proceeded to batter me. I couldn't do anything after a 24-hour flight and jet lagged. And then you turned and look at me and you went, and I'm sorry, at the airport, I did say, so if your name's not Pee Wee, what's your nickname now? You go, like it's the Potter. And I went to a pool. And then you whip me up at Snooker and you look at me and you go, That's why they call me the Potter.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

That's it. So going back to your story, you were salesman of the year.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yeah, I mean, look, I I I would love to take the credit for all of that. There was something in me, but I only became that when because our branch was doing horrifically. Out of the 14 branches, we were bottom when I joined. Now, quite rightly so, after two, three months of this BS pendulum nonsense, uh the the the MD of the franchises came in, he was gone.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

And then tell us about the story.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

The main man arrived, the legend that is David Eagle. Yeah. He was managing or the dealer principal, a DP in the motor trade world means you're responsible for servicing parts and used a new car sale. So you're a dealer principal, yeah. It's four different components of the business, and obviously everything else that comes with it. Now David Eagle was coming from the best branch to the worst. And what I learned from him was how important a process, the better your process, the better the end result for the business and for the client.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

So you can duplicate a process, you can't duplicate a great salesman. Correct. Because they usually can't train someone. But if there's a script beginning, middle, and end and they follow, they can get better and better at it. Correct. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Because I, even though I'm, you know, I'd love to talk, but because I listen, I like to listen, because I don't know what I'm doing most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Or as you're new, you're young.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Even in boxing at 46, the reason I'm evolving is I just listen to what the the better people say and then I implement it in the best way I can until that result is the same. So David Eagle's the most character he he looks like a rugby player. He's six foot four. Yeah, jug we used to call him Juggiers, you know, massive hands. He just doesn't look like a salesman, he looks like a rugby player. He would so he would do this thing where he'd meet someone and always tilt his head like a puppy dog. And just he'd just do this little thing and flutter his eye, you know, it's a big guy. All of a sudden he just commands the room just by doing this one thing. So I learned that. I used to watch him do it, and then I started incorporating the puppy dog. I call it the puppy dog technique. Just tilt your head.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Gets people to love and they kind of probably because it relaxes. All these things work if they're done correctly.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

He'd always smile, he'd till and then smile. And he'd always say, How can I serve you?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

You see, the difference is when you smile, it releases endorphins, it gets people to think differently, and it can disarm anything. And it's a very, very key aspect in sales. If you just smile, isn't that something you do with your team?

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Smile.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

I always do that. If someone comes with a chat with a challenge or a problem, stop, smile, whatever it is, we're going to fix it because it gets you to think of the problem differently, but also release endorphins. And if you're going to deal with an issue anyway, why not do it with a smile on your face and you'll come at it from a different angle? But also it's more pleasant. But it's a very, very good thing to see someone. So he didn't want you there though, did he? Because you were too young. So you're one of the youngest people.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

What happened was David Eagle became my mentor. If that guy said to me, jump, it would be how high? The guy wants to go to his family with the airport, don't book a cab, I'll pick you at 5 a.m., I'll take you. But there was always a give and take. Because my father was in my life, but he wasn't, he wasn't a good male role model. David Eagle is one of the first male role, positive male role models I had in my life, in the sense that he showed me what success can look like. And he he said to me, and I I figured out we we realized after a few days, he came to every salesperson in the showroom and said the same thing. And he said, He lent to come to our desk here, he'd say, I've heard a lot about you. And you go, Yeah? You're the best here. I am. But he said that's all five of us. Alright, but his man management skills were like nothing I've ever experienced before.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

He wanted you to believe in yourself.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

It's uh Dana Goodson trained many many world champions, stand the man was one of them. Every fighter that he walked out, he'd always do the same thing. You know what he'd do when you'd walk out? Number one, every one of his fighters, because he wanted them to have that mentality to believe.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Which is exactly what he did.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah. So these little comments in between, I'd imagine that's like a Jose Mourinho with football. He is that to the motor trade. So, you know, uh back then you uh uh a really good performing branch would maybe sell 25 new cars, 25 used cars a month. Yeah. Okay, around 50 units. Okay, it's good good business. When David Eagle arrived, and with me and with David Eagle, there's also he was the front man and he had this one principle in the showroom. I have one one rule that you must all obey. All right, everything else I'm really flexible. We can talk about it. But if you can't close a client, they do not leave their show my showroom until they speak to me. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

So we would take the client all the way, and even sometimes with glee, you'd go to David, David, I'm tagging you in, been with me for an hour. It's a dead end. It's a dead end, bro. He'd come over, he'd do the puppy dog, he'd smile, within minutes they're signing, they're signing for a new car or a machine. And me seeing that over and over, he'd never say to you do this like the previous uh manager. He would show you, he'd always show and lead from the front. So when there was nothing going on, let's say we're having a quiet few days, you'd see this guy, you'd see this guy with a broom on the forecourt sweeping. Really? Yeah. And you'd run out, Dave. We boss, what are you doing? Ah, just thought I'd give this place a bit, it's a bit dirty, isn't it? If it's a bit messy, shall we before you know it, all of us are out, we've got the broom off him, we're cleaning, we're moving stuff around, we're making stuff happen.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Emotion creates emotion, emotion creates sales.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

He just was leading always from the front. So why there was always situations, you know, we're we've got, let's say, new registration coming out where we've got to you know deliver 50 cars in one day. We've got 50 families in effect coming to pick up new cars. Uh the valetors haven't come in. You know, it's a big commotion. The valetors are not here. We're all moaning, we're all crying. We're what does he do? Calm. He goes to the back, gets the chamisy, gets the bubbles, starts, starts cleaning the cars.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Calm, gets a solution, gets it done. Action.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Not, oh, it's not my I'm the big boss. You no.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

This is how the only way we're gonna make this solve this today is by us cleaning the cars, and that's all I did.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Which you lead from the front. Now you were the one of the youngest as well, weren't you?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Was I was very young at 19, but what I did was unprecedent. Um so we're talking about the the sales statistics, we went from sort of below average, with David coming and me next to him, uh, and a very good team, shall I say, of administrators and other sales executives. We started hitting 100 cars a month. 50 used, 50 new. Unprecedent. About I would say around 25% of of that volume was me. And how many salespeople? Uh we're talking about a team of five. So the average, if you you're having a good month if it's five or eight cars, 80, 20. My average became around 20, 30 units a month to the point. Which is why you got salesman in the year twice. Twice a year. And you were the youngest? I was the youngest, but after two years, now before Google reviews and online reviews, you know what I used to do? I used to get my clients' birthdays, which I still do to this day, and um um used to get them to handwrite a letter, a review about my service and Why they bought the car. I have all the letters to this day. I'll send you a photo of them. And they used to get sent directly to the owner of Curry Motors. And there would be 30, 40 letters coming every month. Before online reviews, the person had to physically write it, put it in an envelope, and post it. And I've got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these paper reviews. I used to put them on my desk in a folder. And I used to have all the comparison cars, Honda Toyota, all the reviews on my desk without me realizing I was creating visual closing points for the client. So I'd when I'd say, I'm just gonna go and get you a coffee, I would throw the book in front of them. So they're just perusing, perusing my reviews and the best car, Toyota, Toyota, Toyota, Toyota. So I was doing all these things. This is something I guess you're subconscious? Yeah, this is something my desk was different to everyone else's, the way it was structured, the way they calculate. I still have this system today, you know, my visual cue points, where my calculator is. I want to be efficient and I want to.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

And all these one percenters, they help client experience, but they also help you re-infirm if the client's kind of 50-50 and a bit of a nudge, here they go.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

So I obviously you're very, very good at sales and you did that for a very long time.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

I did that, I was I was there for seven years, but in in after uh two years in that business and uh and David Eagle and you know two years on the bounce, uh my mentor sat me down. He says, We've got the call, you're gonna be the youngest leader principal in Toyota history. We're gonna move you to the Harrow branch, which at that point became the worst performing branch.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

So the youngest in not you in in in when was it, Europe?

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah, I was I was the number one salesman for two years, not only in the country, but the whole of Europe.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

That's incredible, and I love Toyota because they they got the Kaizen mentality, the 1% better.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

It's exactly the Zen. They have it on the production line.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

So, of course, how to get better. So I had a theme a year ago with Reventon, which was Kaizen, and I gave everyone a book, Atomic Habits by James Clear, which talks about improvements. Yes, so it's a very, very special.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Other business leaders and other manufacturers the the Toyota Way, they call it, which is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Yeah, so from that, obviously, you did that, you were the youngest person to do that. That's a massive congratulations. Now you've started your business, yeah, which you're doing very, very well. Tell us a bit about the Pana Yee Group.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Thank you. So finally got my own business. Yes. Uh we are we were six years old on October the fourth.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Congratulations. Thanks a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Thanks very much. So it's a big, big month. Uh as you know, I'm getting getting married this month. The business is six years old, then fighting for uh uh an amateur title fight at York Hall Bethnel Green on the 18th of October this month as well.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Which is great. It's your fourth fight, fourth fight, undefeated to this point, fighting your first fourth rounder, tough opponent, and we hope you're gonna go well. Thank you. Especially we had we had your bucks in Cyprus as well the weekend. We did. So the prep had a little bit of a dint, but we're back, we're back. We're back trading, which is cool.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

So yeah, the Panay group was um incorporated a little bit by chance, actually, because I was headhunted. Um but actually they they sort of made me go self-employed rather than what I thought it was going to be. So I started the company and in the first year, in effect, it was servicing uh one family who owned 400 units. Now that happened, you know, end of 2018, 2019, the pandemic hits, and I've never dealt with the homeless or social market before that point.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

I know, and you you shared a story which was talk about a little bit towards the end. I want to talk a bit about Panay Group and then a mutual sharing of helping homeless people. But obviously, in six years, you've built a successful business. Give us some of the key milestones and you're going from strength to strength, how it started, how you scaled it now to start employing people and increasing your team.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yeah. So, you know, I had I actually didn't, I had I had about a thousand pounds at that time from various previous failures. You know, I had a very tough time in between great success and the incarnation that I am now.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

But also health. So there was all there was a number of factors which contributed.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Yeah, I suffered with Crohn's disease for a number of years, lost a lot of weight. Um so in a way, this business is is a miracle and also I think a testament to resilience. Now we have we have a choice in life, you know. I and I've learned you have to fight for the life that you want, you have to keep punching. Uh uh, you can't leave things till tomorrow. I've built this business by being ultra responsive. I mean, you send me an email, I know people say don't check, everyone's got their own system. But for me, I think it's great respect when your clients contact you with a problem and you respond with them with the with saying it's already in hand. So reassurance and rapport and responsiveness is I think what my body, uh, my my business embodies. So we pulled off a miracle by housing, you know, three I think it was actually three but between 350 and 400 homeless people in the pandemic, um, which which at the time I thought was a very noble thing to do. But having seen it from the other side, you can see how difficult it is housing people with with with mental issues or drug addictions. Uh giving someone a home is is not is not an answer without the right support. And that's why, you know, as a business, we you know, we we house people, but that's why homelessness is very important to me. And I'll tell a story about you, Chris, if if you don't mind. But Chris came, well, you came uh to England, I think it was about 10 years ago. 2015. And I was really unwell at the time. You hadn't seen me for a while, I hadn't seen you for a while, and something you know, I I hadn't realized what you'd become, you know, how successful your business was doing, and and the person that you've evolved to. So to see you come over at that time when maybe a bit of hope was lost for me, it was like to see one of my best friends show me what what could be done if if if you are relentless, which you were. Um, and you know, I've known you from 12 years old, and one thing I can say about you, you know, you're not you're definitely not the smartest, but you're the most hard-working, you're the most kindest person I think I've ever met. And one thing that Chris did was, you know, he gives, but he gives in silence. And for me, you know, he was it was Christmas, it was cold, uh, he was taking people off the streets. You were taking people off the streets, you were getting money out of your own pocket, food, you know, putting people somewhere for a night for them to stay, giving them enough if they want to go to a hotel. And that really opened my heart in a way, I think, that that kind of put me on a path to start having the business that I've always wanted so I could action and do what you were doing.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

I actually forgot about that, and um I remember walking the streets in London when we were shopping between and having an amazing time and going across so many homeless people. I remember giving money and doing things, but I don't remember exactly what. And that was in 215.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

And when a few people share stories for with me that are so old that have good impact in our community, it reminds me of um it just makes me very happy. And seeing my friends follow suit and business partners, it's very, very important to give back to your community, especially when you've gone through tough times like you have, I have. We're all human beings. You want that bit of hope.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

And it could be anyone.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Absolutely. I think people need to hear that you're not always gonna have a good day. No one does. You're not always gonna be in a good mood. But the one thing you owe to yourself and anyone around you is to turn up every day, which is something maybe I I never used to do. I I I stopped doing that at one point. And if you're not if you don't care about today, you're never gonna be a success.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

And it's funny, you said it was the catalyst to a little bit of hope, which turned a little your health a little bit better and focused on your vision. But if you go back and you look at your story from the fish and chip shop to hardworking, to picking up all the skills in sales, to breaking records, to being the youngest, you were just preparing for what you're now doing.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

And you had a dream to um sounds like Martin Luther King a bit to start boxing. And traditionally at our age, you don't start boxing. That's right. So when did you start?

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Uh about ten months ago.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Cool. So I knew it was about a year and I knew the answer I wanted the listeners to hear. You've had three fights and three wins. So you can always do something if you're never too late.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

It's never too late. And and and it's it's amazing when you get to a point where you I guess a version of success of what people look at, but then you can inspire those around you by continuously doing difficult things week in by.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

He didn't tell you. He showed me true. But it's the best leadership. I don't listen to what people say as much anymore. I watch what they do.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

People will always show you who they are. Absolutely, you just need to believe them. Exactly. So you want to have a vision of someone, but I actually watch what they do. Sure. I watch how they lead. That's all I need to know.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Well, character is what one does in the dark, not when people are looking. So it's it's very important that your mentor has the right integrity. And every business that for me, David, was always the cut, it's always about the client, it's not about us.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Fine experience.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

I learned about service, how to get a five-star review because in that moment it's not about you. People think it is, oh, you start panicking. It's not, it's about the client.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

So you turn around, get together the ego now.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

It's always about the client. So at the Panay group, we do lettings and property management, and we're now going, you know, we've started doing refurbishments and more complicated projects. But I never thought I'd be, you know, managing refurbishments of of properties and designing HMO houses and rooms and choosing, you know, and our our kind of standard has become the standard. You know, we really pushed, driven up the quality of of what a house share could be. And we now manage around 250 residential dwellings that make up HMO houses. And compliance in this country is very dangerous now. You can be fined up to 30,000 pounds. So we we protect our landlords from any fines, we minimize the hassle. And you know, it's very hard in a service industry. You know, we are the highest rated estate agency in the whole of the country. We're not the biggest, we're not, we're not making the most, but we give the best service. We're all starting to be.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

And you see, and I want to just circle back that story you shared at 215, it's very meaningful to me. Because a few years later I became I was following with Vinnie's and I became an ambassador. So I was doing those things well before I was working with Vinnies, and that's when someone convinced me to start, and that's been eight years now. Yeah, that was 10 years ago, 215. Well, no, it wasn't, it was almost 12 years ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

So in in Cyprus, uh, you you did call me to the four seasons for a lovely uh four seasons brunch. Yeah. And if you don't mind me sharing, um this is one of the gifts you gave me. And and watching you do this for Vinnie's, and I know you've hit records in the funds that you've raised for charity, I think it's absolutely amazing and really inspirational. And and I hope to follow in your footsteps and have the same or more impact. So every year we donate sleeping bags to shelter charity and the local Barnett, CAB Homeless Charity. I take my family, I take the my girls with me, we buy shampoos, we buy soaps, we buy what we can. I remember in the first year of the business I could only spend£100.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

But you did, and you and you helped. Yeah. So that's the thing. People think it's always money. It's money. I've met some volunteers at Vinny's, they're amazing people. And I've been asking them how long? 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, people that are retired, young people that have spare time, incredible. Now, if you've got money, that's great. If you've got time, that's great. If you're blessed or like you're like we are, you can give both, that's great. You can start the conversation and raise awareness. There's no excuse for not doing something.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

And when um good people do good things, it's well I've I've noticed the cycle every time I give, it comes back tenfold. There's um I think it's absolutely unbelievable. The more I give, the more I get back, the more my business grows, the more instructions we get, uh, the more five-star reviews we get. It it's unbelievable. Um, and every year we now put we've always put the management fees to one side, we put X amount to one side from the fees that we generate to donate every year. And now, you know, it's snowboard. We can we can deliver 300 sleeping bags, we can deliver 300 shampoo bottles, we can deliver, I think last year we we raised around 11,000 from management fees plus the personal donations, and out of everything that we do, that is the kind of business that I've always wanted where you can action kindness in real time.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

And you know when you said it comes back tenfold, if you give without wanting in return with the right reasons, it always comes back. And I say to my kids, money's a transfer of energy. If you give it from your heart, it will come back with its friends tenfold.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

The same thing, if you do something not nice, it's gonna come back with its friend tenfold, karma. It will come back around. And it writes a lot about I think it's in Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. It talks about giving without expecting. And if you do that and you genuinely, like your David, your Ingle does, cares about the client first. Guess what? Everything else is gonna look after itself.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Absolutely. And listen, things always go wrong, but when you have integrity and you stand in front of no one, the one thing, one thing, one principle I live by that I die by now, and I never used to be like this, by the way, which is another reason I used to fail over and over again sometimes. I would rather upset someone by being honest than upset someone by lying. Of course. And people always choose the latter. They think by withholding the truth or suppressing the problem and not letting the person know you're doing that person a favor, you're not, you're gonna come across as a liar.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

You're compounding something too, but the easiest thing to remember is the truth. And clients I find they understand that we make mistakes and we're human, but what people truly remember, the impact you can truly have, and what people truly appreciate is how you fix it. So when there's a problem at Reventon, I say step in front of it and fix it straight away. You're there when you want to close the deal, you're there when you want the money, you're there when the transaction. You better be with them when there's an issue. Yeah. Where are you when there's the problem? And I say to if a client comes, if a problem comes into the company, you treat it like a new lead. You get on the phone and you fix it. Because usually a small problem compounds into something big when it doesn't have to.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Let me ask you this: if there's bad news for a client or something's happened, a delay, are they better hearing it from you first or then finding out first? Always from us. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

But there's a there's a shadow of a doubt. Correct. You want to you want to get there for the glory, you want to build the business or whatever the case is, you better be there to show them. And I say to my clients when they sign, when I was personally doing the transactions and the sales, this is where our service begins and doesn't end here. This is what you're gonna do moving forward. These are our reviews. I would like you to see the six-month reviews, everything.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

How's your retention in your business? How do you manage retention of your clients?

SPEAKER_00 38:02

We're very, very fortunate. An average client buys 2.4 properties of us. A massive part of our business is based on referrals. So I look at three key things at the end of each year. How many clients bought again from us, repeat business? How many referrals did we get? Very, very important. We're very successful in these two areas. But the third, which is very, very important, how much new business came in? So I'm going to use easy numbers for the sake of this conversation. 100 sales, 30 of them bought again. So we're doing very, very good. They're buying good products and they're making money. 30% making up the number. 30% of them referred people. So they're very, very happy with the service they're giving us reviews. 40% is new. Now, because I sell real estate, it's a high-ticket item. I can't see the client a hundred times. You've got four, five, six.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

How many houses does a person buy in their lifetime?

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Well, I have many clients that have bought over five now, but it's five over a long period of time. So I need referrals from that client and I need new business. So I measure all three pipelines.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

How do you communicate with your clients once the property's sold? How do they hear from you?

SPEAKER_00 39:07

They never hear from us again. Sorry, who? Who is this? So our clients hear from us every single month. We get give them newsletters. They hear from our clients' experience officers and managers, they hear from mortgage brokers every six months, they do six monthly reviews. The first time when they're buying a property and it's getting constructed, they get monthly updates and reviews. The land's going near the builds here from banks. They hear from us 30, 40 times while the property's getting constructed from different departments. They might speak to an accountant or financial planner. For me, those touch points are super, super important. And I want to know if something goes wrong and I want to know straight away. So I want to fix it.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

And I'd tell you back to what we were saying about the transparency. Even you yourself, there's a problem, you want to hear it first.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

I need to know though. Because I deal with it if it escalates to a point where it needs me, but I still want to know what's going on. Where's the inefficiencies in the business? Now we're very, very lucky that we've got a great team. So we've got a 4.9% rating. Five-star Google reviews. We've only been trying to aggressively going for them in the last two years.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

That's something we share, the service. How important the service is.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Don't tell me how good you are. Let my c let your clients tell you. But also, I want to hear from the clients that aren't happy or they can do things better. So negative experiences or negative reviews are very, very important because they're lessons.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

I don't call them anything negative experience anymore, which I used to, and I'll dwell on it. Now I call it a learning experience.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Of course. And it is. You can't take the that that's the best lesson. So for me, it's very, very important. I know the good points of why we're good, but I want to know the areas going back to Toyota, going back to Kaisen. Where can we become better, faster, more efficient? Now, Peter, we can talk about real estate, we can talk about homelessness with our business all day. It's come the time now for your quick fire questions. Are you ready, sir?

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Absolutely. Can't wait.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

I was ready to do this one, funny. Fish and chips or halloumi? Halloumi. Uh coffee or tea. It's coffee now. Boxing training or business meeting?

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Boxing training.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Best piece of advice you've ever received.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Yeah, I think I think it's what I said earlier.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Who told you that?

SPEAKER_01 41:29

I'm not gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Okay. Uh one book, podcast, or resource that inspires you.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

What book?

SPEAKER_00 41:39

One book, one you can pick up.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

It was Gabor Mate's The Body Keeps the Score. It really, really helped me uh transform. Uh uh I've got to read that, I mean. Yeah, it's not it's not it's not a business book per se, but it really helped me resolve childhood trauma. If anyone's got trauma in their life, which I know a lot of us have, especially childhood trauma, which can hold you back becoming the full authentic self, Gabor Mate, anything by Gabor Mate is very, very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

From one to ten, whatever trauma you get, unless you can deal with it, it manifests for the next severity 70 years of your life. There's studies being done on it, you can read extensively on it, and it's fascinating. If you can't deal with what happened to you, and it might come up in a form of addiction in so many different ways, chronic pain, yeah, sickness in your body, which is very, very important. One word that describes your journey so far.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Magical.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

That is beautiful. Now, honest, this is a very important question. On a scale of one to ten, Pete, how much have you enjoyed being on the podcast?

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Um, this is kind of is there a minus or it's a straight ten. Uh spending time with you is always a ten in any capacity.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Well, I really appreciate it. I can't tell you how happy I am that I had an impact on the homeless work that you do here, which is very, very important. You're doing great things. Good luck on your fourth five winning your title. Thank you. Good luck on getting married to your beautiful wife to be and your beautiful family. Now remember to like, share, and subscribe for more episodes of Relentless. Thank you, Pete. Thanks for having me.