030: Ronan Debelius - Life of a Liveaboard Cruise Director in Indonesia

Ronan Debelius was the cruise director of the prestigious Coralia Liveaboard in Indonesia when Todd met him last year.  Ever since we started this podcast, we wanted to have Ronan on to chat to share his experiences.

Ronan was born in Germany, but his mom is Indonesian.  A desire to get in touch with his roots, and strong family ties to the dive industry lead him to work all over Indonesia at some of the most prestigious dive operations all over the country for the past  7 years.   

In today's episode, we chat about everything from what it is like to be one of the youngest cruise directors in Indonesia, to how COVID has impacted the dive operators and staff, and much more!  Of course Ronan shares some of his favorite places to dive and answers the 'Dive Brief' questionnaire too.

Check out the YouTube version of the interview here!

Check out some of the amazing places Ronan has worked:
Coralia Liveaboard
Pindito Liveaboard
Lembeh Resort

[All photos courtesy of Ronan Debelius]

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

The aquatic life. This is spoken word. It is wonderful. It is beautiful. It is here for us to talk about things that we see and have done. And here we are. Now without further ado, let me introduce our host, Todd Reimer. And Dalton!

Todd 0:26

Welcome to the Aquatic Life, a podcast about diving underwater photography and adventure travel. I'm Todd Reimer, and with me as always is Dalton Ham. And thank you so much, Ronan, for that wonderful intro. Ronan is our guest today on the podcast. He is a cruise director on the Coralia. You'll hear me mispronounce it as Coralia all throughout the podcast episode. I apologize for that. But he's a fantastic guy, has a great story. He's born in Germany to uh an Indonesian mom and a German dad. His dad was an underwater photographer, and he wanted to go and explore his Indonesian roots, and so did that through the dive industry. And we talk about some really, really fascinating topics. Everything from how he grew up to talking about all the major places to dive in Indonesia, talk about how the industry has been impacted by COVID and lots and lots of other topics. Again, thanks so much, Ronan, for everything. We had a great time chatting with you, and I think the audience is gonna enjoy the listen. So, guys, sit back, grab a drink, and listen to our chat with Ronan Debelius. Let's get this started. Welcome Ronan. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for that awesome intro. We appreciate it. Uh Ronan and I go way back because on uh we don't have May here. She's at work. She wanted to say hi to you, by the way. But when May and I went uh to our last liverboard trip on Raja Ampot, we were on the Coralia. By the way, I've still got my bag and use her all the time. Uh and our cruise director was the one and only Ronan you know, Mr. Ronan here. And we had lots of great conversations in between dives, and he was such a fascinating guy, and I really wanted to have him on the podcast, and he graciously agreed to join us. So welcome, Ronan.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.

Todd 2:35

Uh, one of the things I thought found was so fascinating was just your story, uh, because you are, if you and correct me if I'm wrong, part Indonesian and part German. Why don't you give us a brief introduction and we'll we'll take it from there? I don't need to tell you the story and you can correct me, but I I'd I'd love to Todd, why don't you tell us about Roman? Yeah, let me tell you more about Ronan. I would love to hear my story.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

No, it's serious.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

It's not cool. Um, yeah, the short and quick version, born and raised in Germany, uh traveled around the world a bunch, ended up in Indonesia, and connected uh somewhat with my roots. And thanks to uh a lot of background from my father's profession, I was able to get into the industry. Um, say, well, I guess it would be tourism, yeah. Tourism, live aboards, and primarily diving. And I was fortunate enough to be able to make a living off of it and actually have a career in the last seven years up until COVID-19. But oh well.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

So you've been in you've been in Indonesia for the last seven years the whole time? Awesome. That's fantastic. And as far as diving, um, are you an instructor, dive master, just a diver? What do you think? Of course I'm I think you're a course. I think you're a course director, but you know. Well, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Yes, yes, yes. I lead the whole thing. No, I did uh do an instructor course and all of that good stuff, but I'm one of those few lucky ones who can say that he's not actually an instructor. Instructor, well, not lucky, it's just a weird thing to explain to people, to be honest, when you say, Yeah, I'm an instructor, but I don't really teach, you know. So but yeah, that is my title as a patty diver. Right on an instructor.

Todd 4:19

So when we met, we were on Coralia, which is was one of the or is still one of the premier uh liverboards on uh in Raja Ampat in all of Indonesia. Actually, right before we left, I think one of the dive mags in UK listed them the top liverboard in all of Raja Ampat. And Mr. Ronan was was uh was there running the running the whole operation. So how why don't we just start there? Like how did you uh how long were you working on Corlea? Uh I know you were working alongside the other the other guys, I forget their names that that that were also cruise directors. Debbie and Jerry. Debbie and Jerry, who uh if if you hear Corlea, a lot of people know Debbie and Jerry too. So tell us about how you got in touch with with Coralia and and um what it was like, you know, run running things over there when you when you were there.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Well, uh with Koralia, the way it happened, uh she is my third vessel vessel at this moment that I've been working on. And yeah, I've had a few years on different boats as well as on land. And uh during that time I actually made a lot of connections in regards to people uh living and working in the industry in Indonesia. And I actually knew Debbie and Jerry, and they used to work on uh another lipaboard, and another friend of mine who said, Hey buddy, um there's this dream job. I don't think it's real, but I saw this post and you should check it out because I think this would be something for you. And what it said it was um we're looking for part-time cruise director, and usually the gig comes with a full-time, you know, 11 months on doing the whole Shabam uh up until you get that one month of uh vacation. Uh it is a non-stop thing. And what I always wanted to do, or at least try to work towards, too, is to get some more free time and be able to travel a lot more. I mean, granted, my job is all about traveling, I'm constantly on the move, but essentially um I wanted to go check out places beyond Indonesia and Europe, for instance. And that's why I jumped on the offer and yeah, I wrote them and within probably the same 24 hours I got accepted because that's awesome. You're the English guess is what it's all about.

Todd 6:35

It's not what you know, who it's who you know, and it clearly is more never more so true than in the dive industry, and probably even more so in Indonesia, right? So it's very true. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

That's awesome, that's fantastic.

Todd 6:48

But let's go back uh and kind of start with. So you grew up uh in Germany. Uh did you grow up in the Frankfurt area? That's where you're talking to us from now. Uh so and but you also spent some time in the States. I think you went to college there, is that right? Am I remembering correct? Okay. High school and college. Yeah, so tell us just kind of your background of kind of of all your your travels growing up, and then when did you first get interested in diving or water and and go from and and we'll take it from there?

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Sure. Um, well, for me, this starts at the very beginning. My dad happens to be an underwater photographer and an author as well. So he was in the field from way before I was actually um conceptualized, so to say. And uh when I was born, my parents always used to drag me around everywhere they went. You know, a lot of the places were in Southeast Asia, a lot of them were Indonesia, due to the fact that my mom's in uh Indonesian and that my dad absolutely loved the archipelago. And yeah, I got to see it quite a bit. And finally, at around I think six, my mom finally allowed my dad to take me on a little discover scuba diving kind of thing, you know, where he would take me down on the octopus. And you know, to me it was 20 meters, it was probably only two meters. Right. I don't know what that's in feet, sorry guys. Metric system. Um, but yeah, uh, so I I started diving then, and then at around eight, Patty actually introduced a bubble maker. So my dad jumped on it and let me do the bubble maker. So I've been diving from a very young age. And don't ask me how many dives I have, I have no idea. Um, but uh yeah, I was fortunate to be able to do that. But I took a long hiatus from diving and of itself uh because of school and everything. Uh and as you mentioned, I was born and raised here in Germany, which I'm currently residing in again. And it was more of a um yeah, landlocked situation in which I just didn't go diving. And uh once the opportunity came about to move to the United States, uh I took it and I actually went to California and stayed there for quite a bit. I did do some cold water diving in Monterey Bay, which was pretty wicked uh in both senses of the word, if you know what I mean. Yes, beautiful, but so so cold. So, so thank you. Uh but regardless of that, you know, um I ended up uh staying in the US for quite some time. And once that was done, uh to fast forward towards the diving part, I went back to Germany and uh tried my luck here just to see what it would be like after uh such a long absence. I was nearly gone for about 10 years or so, nine years. And then I came back and it just wasn't really for me back then at that point in time in my life. And I always wanted to connect to the other part of my roots, you know, my heritage, and that's why I figured why not go to Indonesia.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Now, did you always want to work in uh tourism or hospitality, or did you want to be something else growing up?

Todd 9:59

Just do whatever it could take to get roots in Indonesia, and that was the path of least for Zoom.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Basically, basically. The diving part I shunned it for quite some time. Not shunned it, uh that's uh too much. I would say I exaggerate on that point, but I just simply didn't take the route that was already offered and that was presented to me by my parents, which happened to be in the tourism industry. My mom uh being a travel agent, my dad traveling all over the world all the time and doing these things. So it kind of I sort of got what's the saying, a silver spoon in that sense. And I was very, very fortunate because I did know a lot of people and a few key individuals were the ones that uh made this happen and made it happen in such a fast and wonderful way. And when I moved to Indonesia, I figured, okay, I'm gonna talk to some people and do something with this diving business. You know, I've been avoiding it all my life, and you know how it is with parents and children, you try to prove them wrong as a kid, but in the end, they usually are right. So props to you, pops and moms, you guys were right. Yeah, right, right, right. It's like, oh damn, they made a lot of sense about them. Why didn't I listen? Now did you have that's exactly how it went. You know, I just listened to them and um I tried my luck and I was very fortunate to be able to have some opportunities that developed into me having a career. That's awesome.

Todd 11:30

Uh did you did you what were your dreams elsewhere? So you went, what did you go to school for? Did you were thinking you were gonna go and you were gonna be an engineer or some other crazy profession initially? That uh why you were originally originally apprehensive to follow on the parents' uh footsteps?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

No, it's just like one of those youthful mistakes, you know, it's like, no, I shall never do anything that my parents did, you know, kind of deal.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

So I just tried my own luck with uh uh whatever have you, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

If I studied environmental science and I really wanted to do something in that sense because I always thought to myself, you know, it's like, okay, academics is fine and dandy, but how do you actually use it and what's actually important? And that's what college actually showed me because back then it wasn't it wasn't more about uh what GPA you got or what anything like that. It was more about let's see what this is like, let's see if it's first of all, like in the movies, because I'm European and you see a lot of movies and colleges are crazy, at least they're represented that way, and uh all of that good stuff was fun, but uh yeah, I thought to myself environmental science would be the best because I do love being in nature. Yeah, and so that does coincide with my profession as of now, and which I'm constantly outside. I'm actually in it, I'm not talking about it, I'm not drawing graphs around it, you know, blah blah blah blah blah. I'm actually there. I'm actually if if I were to partake in a study, I'll be the person you'd probably talk to about you know, the wealth of knowledge on the spot. Uh so in that sense, I think I did do my studies some justice because I do get to see quite a lot of things. And you know, being in the ring of fire is quite interesting, and um you know, having the background of talking about those kind of things in environmental science, just let me have at it.

Todd 13:22

So for those that aren't familiar with Indonesia, tell people what Ring of Fire represents, just in case you're not familiar with it.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Sure thing. Uh so the Ring of Fire is uh the world's largest ring, quote unquotes, um, of volcanoes, and it's the largest volcanic activity uh currently at this point in time. And it's Indonesia in of itself consists of 17,500 islands plus. And I say plus because again, it's volcanic and it's still growing. Take for instance Hawaii, you know, the big island, it's still bubbling and it's still growing. It's gonna be much bigger in thousands of years when none of us are here anymore. But uh, that's basically what's happening in all of Southeast Asia, not just Indonesia. It's quite a big area, actually, but Indonesia is the hotspot.

Todd 14:11

When you first decided, okay, I'm gonna make the leap, I'm gonna finally follow my parents' footbelt footsteps. I I'm gonna go back to my roots. I'm headed to Indonesia and I'm thinking I'm thinking about trying to find a job there. Take us from there. What where did you start off as your base of operations? Who how did you did you reach out before you actually went there to get a job lined up? Or did you go out there and say, hey, I I'm just gonna go because maybe I have relatives or something I can stay with and start looking for a job? How did that how did that work for you?

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Well, it was a mix of a lot of things. Um honestly, it was just a swift kick in the ass for my dad saying, good luck to you. And I figured it out. But before that happened, actually, I did have some um, you know, some talks with some friends with a family and such who put in a good word for me in certain areas. And when I'm uh got to Indonesia, I had actually had a gig lined up, uh, which was in North Sulawesi in Manado for Morex. And uh when I was at Morex, I started um basically an internship. And there they just tested me, you know, it's like I came there with nothing, nothing, you know, not even dive gear really, right? Which was nuts back then, you know. Um, I still remember my my boss saying it's like, oh, you're a funny guy, you know, you're coming here to a dive shop without even dive gear.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

What do you expect? I'm like, I know, but I'm trying to figure this out as I'm going, you know, it's like I'm hitting the road running.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

But uh yeah. Oh it was it was interesting to see. And there I met uh another great friend of mine, Pim Manchendo, and he's a really, really cool guy who's doing his own thing now in Monado as well. But uh yeah, him and I got along really well. And at one point or another, uh the big boss, Danny, uh Danny Charlton is his name, he actually put me on this island called Banca, which is also a very beautiful dive destination. So for all of those who don't know, North Sulawesi, uh you go there and you go to this island right on top of it. It's called Banca. It's the best place to be isolated if you really want to live the Robinson Crusoe life. And that's where I stayed for a few months uh until I was offered the opportunity, uh, thanks to my work at that place, to work for another location, which was the Lembe Resort, which is not too far off. So for those scuba divers who are really into macro diving, you might know Lembe uh from all the tales and legends. It's a unique place, it's a beautiful place, and I was fortunate enough to work at yeah, the most prestigious resort around there.

Todd 16:47

And was so you actually worked at Lembe Resort, right? Which is people people that are not familiar with uh although we've talked about Lembe Resort on a few different podcasts. Um there's a lot of resorts in Lembe, but Lembre Resort is one of the premier, uh if not the premier destinations.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

At least while Ronan was working there, it was the premiere. Yeah, exactly.

Todd 17:11

I don't know if Dimpy was working back then. Uh I mean this was probably a long time ago, but Dimpy was working back then. Okay, yeah, Dimpy was there. Shout out to you, Dimpy. Hey Dimpy. Yeah, we talk about her a lot of time. I we've uh been at Limbay Resort and Dimpy was awesome and we've chatted. I've I keep trying to get her to come on the podcast also, but she doesn't want to do it. You should, you should. Yeah, she's awesome. She's a wealth of knowledge. She is. That lady is awesome. She's so sweet. Pretty cool. Anyway, so what did so what did you do for Lembae Resort? Did you run, like were you uh running, you know, uh guest relations? Were you on the boat?

SPEAKER_01 17:41

So I got hired to be the interim uh man uh in an interim manager position. At first it was guest relations manager, okay, in which the general manager was still there and they were just you know working off the time that was still allotted to them. And there was a time frame in which uh the old uh couple had left or the old management team and the new management team would come in. And I just bridged that part. And that's when I worked for the resort as first uh guest relations um manager just to see uh how everything's going, how everything works out on land, and you know, get the insights uh to all of what's going on behind the scenes. And later on, I well I sort of kind of took off uh the the mantle of the guest relations uh the guest or the general manager and um managed to do that for a while. But if it wasn't for the entire team over there, and trust me, uh Lember Resort, if you haven't gone there, it is a well-oiled machine. These people know what they're doing, you'll never look or ask for anything, you know. Uh it's amazing. And uh their support has made my experience there so much more uh fantastic. And during that time, um this is where a lot of people also in the industry kept on talking to me because I was fresh in Indonesia, I was new. And the fortunate thing was I speak English, obviously, I speak German, which is really helpful uh with a lot of German uh clientele around there. And I was beginning to learn or relearn Indonesian again back then because at the tender age of six, I made the uh stupid mistake of telling myself, you know, I don't really need Indonesian anymore. I'm just gonna stop speaking the language because you know nobody knows where Indonesia is here, and if I have to explain it every time I want to get go crazy. So I was learning Indonesian and they're saying, hey, uh for you to do yourself a huge favor and make an impact as best as possible uh for yourself, is if you were to actually consider going on a liveaboard. First of all, uh you would be sort of similarly doing everything I was doing uh on the resort side, but much more involved because once you're on a boat, it's not just you know the hierarchy system, it's you gotta do whatever you gotta do in order to get things going. You know, there is some earth box in one end or the other guy, you know. Uh so uh they told me it's like, and uh most of the time because these people are on a boat, they don't necessarily uh find it to be a requirement to know or learn English. And that is actually their right to do so. We are in Indonesia after all. Yes, I am half an Indonesian region, but the least I could do is learn their language to communicate with them. So that's exactly uh what I took from it. And once I started um you know warming up to the idea, I jumped right into it after my gig in Lembe Resort, and that's uh when the boat life started.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

And how long have you been doing the boat life now? Boat life?

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Um what six years now? Seven years, something like that.

Todd 20:54

And so and what was that first uh what was the first liverboard that you got after that?

SPEAKER_01 21:02

So the first liverboard that I got to afterwards, um I had just gone back uh to Bali from Manado, and I had stayed at one of those people that had uh briefly mentioned when I said those were the key figures that really helped me get along and make a career for myself. And one of them is Dove Svierkata, who owns Alambatu uh resort up in uh northeastern Bali, which is a wonderful dive resort. Highly recommend that as well. It is the best. Uh I'm slightly biased, but it is the best. What am I gonna say? So I again I I just hung out with her. She's basically uh another mother of mine. Uh I love that person so much. And uh through her, I met again a bunch of people. And ironically enough, uh, the people who used to be cruise directors on the Liverport that I was gonna start working on were starting to work for Dovis at Alambatu. And they put in, well, they asked me, it's like, are you You sure you are you you really want to do this? We'll put in a good word uh at our former bosses. He's always looking. And that guy happened to be Eddie Formenwila, uh, who is the owner of the Pendito, which happens to be the reason all of us go to Raja Ampat. He is the man, he is the explorer, he is yeah.

Todd 22:20

So I can tell us tell us about that history since most of us don't really know that that's kind of the start of the popularity of Raja Ampat.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Yeah, to Eddie and Pendito. Seriously, uh you gotta take it way back. Well, way back everything's relative, but uh the 90s, the early 90s. Uh you can say there were about four liverboards back then. I I would please remember that number. Four liverboards total. Yeah. Once we get to now and we talk about how many there are now, it's gonna be like, whoa, nuts. But uh four wing the Baruna, uh the Chehili, the evening star, or something star, I forget, uh, and of course Kindito. And uh back in the day, this Swiss man came to the Indonesian archipelago and wanted to explore and figured how do I best see a bunch of islands? Build myself a boat. And this pioneer said, I'm gonna go there, there, and there. Nobody ever's been there. Let's do this. So back in the day, you you might have known about Komodo, which already or was starting to become a national park, but it was already a dive destination for a lot of people. But again, four boats. And then you keep on going east, you go into the Bandasi, you go into the Molucos, uh, and then you go all the way further up north, and you end up going to back then still probably Irianjaya, which now is Papua. And Eddie said, uh you know how cool it is? It's like a fantasy, like a childhood fantasy. You know, you you have this pirate map and you have this big white blob there. What's in that white blob? Yeah, and this man said, I'm gonna go there. And he did, he discovered it. Most of the dive sites we go to are credited to him. Of course, there's a lot of other people like Max Amers, uh, who did the first resort in Raja Ampad and a slew of other individuals who then discovered more dive sites, but you know, honor to those who deserve it, and Eddie is the guy. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, I was two years under him, worked for him for quite some time, and yeah, seeing everything from Indonesia, guys. If you haven't been there, I mean I know uh Todd, Dalton, have you been there? No.

Todd 24:38

I've been trying to get him for for years to go. We we were talking about doing something, but then COVID hit. So uh, but that but he's gonna be going too with him and his his wife. So uh but yeah, it's one of my favorite places to dive. I mean, we've been to Raj Ampat twice because of it, and Komodo is awesome also, and that's only the scratching the surface of all the amazing places to see. But um, so yeah, so then your your boat life started, and you you know, you're spending most of your time on a boat now, right? So 24-7. How how is that what was that like? What's it like living, you know, for those that are aren't used to being that? What's what's really amazing about it, and then what maybe you don't think of that's you you miss or that's really frustrating about that that you're on a boat for your whole life for a given year?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

To say the least, there were a few adjustments you can put on that. When I when I started, uh I was just in for the adventure. I love jumping into the unknown. It's just something that I guess it's a challenge. I don't even know if it's a challenge, it's just something that I enjoy, and then you know, just see where you come out on at the end on the other end. And for me, it's been pretty good. And when I walked on the boat for the first time, I was like, whoa. I mean, you know, you read the specs, whatever, 50, 80 meters long, 10 meters wide, or something like that. But once you're there, you're like, oh, wait a minute. Remember what I said earlier before we uh started talking when I walked into a house, everything seems so big now. Yeah, it's because of a boat, everything's more compact and everything makes sense. There has to be a purpose to where every anything is. And yeah, Pendito was uh my first introduction to it. And back then, uh I also shared a cabin with uh my buddy Eric, uh, who is currently on the Ghillies. So uh Eric Vandenburg, also a good guy. He runs um a hotel down in yeah, Ghili Trangangan right now. But obviously, with the times, there's nothing going on there. Uh, regardless, uh, we spent some time there and uh I was there for a lot of things. You know, this boat was built in 1992. It is the only boat that is still running with 20 plus years on its back. And wow, you know, it's just it was such a motivational thing, you know, it's inspirational to me, you know. Yeah, talking to Eddie, listening to him, hearing his stories, and knowing where that boat's been, what that boat's been through, and doing all of these things, you know, dry dock, guys. Boat life is one thing, but dry dock is all that's another paragraph to this entire beautiful um sentence that I'm gonna uh talk about.

Todd 27:31

But in between tours, at some point the boat's gotta get serviced, right? So you gotta put in dry dock. As a member of the crew, what how much involvement do you actually have in the work that has to be done?

SPEAKER_01 27:43

I was young back then, or younger, I should say. I was as far as I knew, I was the youngest guy in that specific bubble of cruise directors and all of these things.

Todd 27:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

And uh it's not easy necessarily when you know hierarchy also demands age, you know. So you come in as a boss of people who are much older than you and much more experienced. Because I'm not a boss by no means, it's just the title, you know, that's all it is. Uh so I learned this from Eddie too. It's just about showing that you're motivated, that you want to partake, and that you don't think that you're better than anybody else on that boat. Because if we weren't working as a team, as a union, as we we wouldn't get anywhere, we couldn't solve any problems and it would be quite difficult. So even in dry dock, you know, I actually did everything. I scrubbed, I sanded, I painted, I cut, I did everything, you know. It was amazing. It was nuts, absolutely crazy, because all of that, you know, there's a whole year leading up to that experience because living on a boat, you know, not being on land. And back then, uh, and I gotta say this, Jokoe, you kept your promise. He said he was gonna connect Indonesia via planes and um uh cell phone network. And when I started, guys, I saw the progression within a few years where back in the day in certain coastlines, you could you you'd be gone, you know. This is what we're doing a 14-day trip, 12-day trip, whatever. You're gone for 10 days. There is no reception. It's still the norm in Raja and every uh in certain areas, but nowadays, you know, it's like compared to what it used to be, you can actually get messages. You can you you can communicate nowadays. Back then you're just gone. Yeah you're off the radar, off the grid. Off the grid. Uh so that was nuts in of itself, and you know, but it was a new experience, it was beautiful. Every day you wake up in a different location. So you're waking up in the same spot on the boat, but you're in a different area, and that's what really gave me so much joy to see a different scenario every day, and then you know, learning about these things, and especially when you're new, everything's just all the more fantastic. You already know Indonesia is great, the dive places I've been to have been amazing. What's next? You know, what what more can I see? You know, all of these things, and then all the different areas that we travel to uh from all the way from Bali towards Komodo into the Bandasi, and then up into Raja Ampara, and all the way back. All of these things uh it's phenomenal. My my first year was breathtaking, and um absolutely and then Drydock hit me in the face. I mean boo, it seriously sucker punched me.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

And I was like, Oh, this is the other part of being a cruise director and living the boat life, you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

And I'm I'm sure people don't realize that when you guys are running these, you know 10, 7, 14-day um cruises, that when you guys have to turn them around, it's not like you get a day off to turn them around. You you don't get a day off. You're you go from see you guys later to make you know going to pick up supplies and and everything else and loading the boat up for the next trip. You are saying it, yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Yeah, so I love it when you know a lot of people say, Oh, so you get a day off when we're done. I'm like, as far as you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

It's just you uh it was a little bit weird back in the day, but you know, you you get used to it, and the first few years, you know, were kind of intense under Eddie, you know, it's like a lot it was just you had to be on, but I I was learning, you know, I was learning 24-7, so it was part of the game, and uh I'm grateful. I'm grateful for that opportunity looking back at it.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Now, do you did you get any downtime to yourself, like an hour here or there to you know, write letters to home to mom and dad or whatever, or or was it go, go, go, go, go the whole time?

SPEAKER_01 31:57

I'd be lying, and I think anybody would if you'd say, Oh, I was constantly on doing nothing but work, da-da-da-da-da-da. You know, that's just grand exaggeration, in my opinion. But uh, yeah, of course I got some time off. You know, there's you have to have time off. You know, you need to be able to say goodbye, good night, you know. And there there were times where I would literally call my boss um and tell them, hey, today I know I'm supposed to be doing this, but we are a team of cruise directors, so we've decided that one of us gets to go on land. And usually when that happened, you know, we we do a coin toss, and whoever got to go on land would straight up go into a hotel with no windows, shut everything down and just sleep.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Sleep. Order food to the room and just not speak and just do nothing. Nothing is the best.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Um so but yeah, uh during the during the cruise you do get some time off, so of course, but the idea is to be there for you, for the guests and for the crew, and yeah, just in general.

Todd 33:04

So most of the time when you're the cruise director, most of the the rest of the crew typically tends to be locals, right? Born and and raised in Indonesia. Yep, yep, always as someone that came from abroad who wasn't born there and and has heritage there but wasn't born there, was there is there any uh difficulties or transition period? Obviously, once you guys get to know each other and bond, but did you find as you went from place to place within the service industry that you ran into some snags because you weren't also born and raised? I mean, you have youth as one issue, but the fact that you were not uh quote unquote native to to uh the homeland, did you find run into any issues there?

SPEAKER_01 33:44

None of the issues were unresolvable, so in that sense, it was okay. But yeah, uh of course uh it's kind of weird. You know, it's like I'm for lack of a better word, half-breed. So regardless where I go, I don't necessarily belong. I've always had that in Germany, you know, it's like, oh you're the brown kid that speaks German very well. I'm like, yeah, I was born and raised here.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

And then you go over there and you think to yourself, like, what's up, people? And they're like, Whoa, dude, you're so white. You know, I'm like, what the so weird.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

So the Indonesians even have a term for it, you know. Uh so if you ever go to Indonesia, Dalton, and you hear the word bule, okay, they mean you bule means for lack of a better word, um non-southeast Asian looking individual. And for the Americans who've been to Hawaii, if you've been called a howli, that's a boule. So only with the Hawaiians, they made it the one without breath, so that's even harder. That's wow. That's a that's a different history story, but uh yeah. So they consider me as a boule, the locals, and but they do appreciate the map the fact that I try talking in their language. They know I'm half Indonesian, but considering that I was born and raised in Germany, they don't see me as anything Indonesian, but they see me as an individual who is at least trying to grasp uh the language and speak to them on even terms. And that's what I did, and that's why I really, really tried for the first few years, you know, just like not slide into this thing where in the hotel business all of the Indonesians working there, they would always ask me, Can we please speak English? I want to practice my English. And I'm like, But I want to speak Indonesian, I practice my Indonesian. So that never went anywhere. Uh and on the boat, I was finally forced because a bunch of those dudes rightfully so did not speak in uh English and didn't want to. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, that's right. So uh supposed the last sentence is if you Indonesian say that, all the Indonesians are gonna fist bump you for that one because makandulu is uh sacred, right? It basically means let's eat first.

Todd 36:02

First eat. I like it.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

So uh just to to dial it back for a second, um, I think that's one thing that we can say for anywhere um people travel is that you should try to learn a little bit of the local language because just that little bit that you're trying goes such a long way, you know. It just it shows that you have a respect for their culture and that you're you want to you know uh try to speak to them on their own terms, and I think that that means a lot. 100 you you said it, you said it, yeah, you said it 1000. So that so so let's eat first is good morning and good evening, and let's eat first. What how how does that go again?

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Makandulu. Makandulu. All right, do it's an Indonesian proverb.

Todd 36:56

I like it, like it. It'll be the unofficial title of this episode is Makandulu. Let's do that. Cool. Well, and and obviously, the you know, anyone that's traveled abroad or spent any time abroad, you're gonna have challenges like that, but then you also gain an appreciation for a different perspective in life. And I think that's always part of the joys of traveling anyway, but it's the extra struggle and joy of actually living and working abroad as you get those additional perspectives, and it's it's it's great. Like so cruise cruise director sounds glamorous, right? But more often than not, you're not, it's not like you're going on every dive, you have dive masters for that. So more often than not, on the Coralia, you were not diving, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:41

You yeah, because that is a privilege that I work towards because back on the Tito, I was on every dive, on every dive, four times a day. Let's do this.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

So yeah, I I started that way. Uh you know, it started off with me being uh cruise director as well as one of the dive guides. And that was challenging because you really it's draining, it's really draining, and doing that for 11 months with and then having a month off. Uh yeah, it's nuts. And when I changed my position to uh another boat, which is the Amira, uh, she is the biggest out of the cruise. Uh well, the liverboards out there. She's Big Bertha, is what I passionately call her. Um Three Masters. So we used to have three Three Masters, now there's only two, unfortunately. But uh yeah, she was the biggest one out of all of them. And then there's still the Devi Nu Santara, and previously there was the Wow, um, but that's a different story. Regardless, I started working there, and there I was able to separate myself from being a dive guide, in which I only went on dives when I wanted to or I had to. I would still offer my dive guides because uh you got to take those guys into consideration too. They're doing this day in, day out, yeah for weeks on end, for months on end. So this is not easy on them either, you know. And they have family and friends at home that they want to see as well, but they're they can't because we're all on a boat and we're doing this right now. So if they're sick or if they just wanted to take a break or just get that one hour or where they could do just turn off, you know. I mentioned that earlier with go uh going to the hotels for me. Uh it's the same for those guys. So I would be like, hey, I'll I'll guide, you know. So I can guide, I can find stuff, you know. It's like that's a skill too, by the way. That's not something that just comes, you know. And the Indonesians are demigods. I mean, demigods would be an insult to them because these guys have eagle eyes of the best kind and they find the coolest stuff. So I was always challenged, you know, to try and find some stuff. And the best tip I ever got from an Indonesian dive guide, uh, when I asked him what's he's like, how do you always find this cool stuff? You can it's like you know where they are. And he said to me, if you look for a friend, where would you go to to find him? And I was like, uh uh uh is this a philosophical question? I don't know. And then he looks at me, he's like, Hey Dodo, his home where he lives, duh. And I was like, Oh but that's just half the that's still only 90% of the battle because you kind of need to know where they live and what they do, whatever creature. Yeah, but in the end of the day, you're still gonna be lucky to actually have that thing appear, you know, and then stay long enough for everybody to get a glimpse of it or photographers to shoot it, you know. Right. Pictures, people, not no debts, no animals were harmed in the beginning of the video. Yes.

Todd 40:46

Yes, whenever we refer to shooting, we're talking about taking pictures only. And those spearfishing.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

I do have the NRA back there, you know. That is true.

Todd 40:54

We do love our guns. My cool death bad. Right. Exactly right. Is there any standout dive that you've been on that just blew your mind? Maybe it was the first time you saw something or super rare or just something that you specifically love?

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Or place that you've been like a bunch of those. Like was Limbe amazing? Was I can tell you for each location what's amazing about it?

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Let's uh if you guys want to want to walk through it, you guys just uh destination we'll talk about it because there is no one dive spot in the world that is the best dive spot, but the death best dive region in the world is Indonesia. So in that sense, if you're visiting it, it's just a matter of what's special to you.

Todd 41:38

Like some people like uh just have a favorite animal that like and I got to see, you know, if you're in the manas and they went to Mistool and got to be surrounded by uh, you know, a billion of them, right? Uh whereas you know everyone else, like for me it was Mandarin fish, you know, at the time, and it's like, oh my gosh, and it just whatever. But okay, I'll give you we'll we'll play this game. So let's start at Raja Ampat.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

What's your most memorable day? Maybe you should rewind that one because you don't start with Mecca or the Vatican.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

Okay. You don't want a pilgrimage people in the other. Sure.

Todd 42:10

Let's start let's start uh let's start in Ba Bali or Ghili Islands, somewhere around that area, not too far off uh Bali.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Bali, I would definitely say up in the northeastern area. Um, for those of you who might know the area, it's called Tulamben. I personally find that to be an amazing dive area. It's uh volcanic dive sites, so it's all black sand or you know, rugged uh coral formations. There's also um the Liberty, which is a rec dive, which is amazing. But the beauty for me there, it's not scenic diving, it's not one of those uh aquarium kind of dives where you have beautiful corals all the time. You do have corals, you do have cool stuff, you know, massive fans and all that stuff. But what's really interesting, and this is not for everybody, especially if you're a beginner diver, uh, but you will inevitably end up on the same train, uh, which is the macro train. The macro life up there is phenomenal. I mean, whoa. You're looking for things that are this tiny, you know. Maybe this this is big, this is massive. Right. But uh just getting that kick and the thrill out of those things, yeah. That I love it there, and um yeah, it's also because you know it's got sentimental values. I did my dive master there when I was 17, 18, and there's a lot of special memories, and those will never go, and that's why I treasure that place, and I would love for more people to experience it. So, yeah, check out uh Bali in the northeastern area. I mean my recommendation.

Todd 43:42

Do you get to see any uh ocean sunfish molamola encounters?

SPEAKER_01 43:48

My dude, uh I'm not much of a man for cold water. All right. Like, so diving for me is diving four shorts and maybe a rash guard.

Todd 43:59

We're in the same boat. We're in the same boat.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Yep, that's my kind of deal. You know, like I'll take a three millimeter when I have to put on a five mil. I don't I'm questioning myself. This is worth it, but you know, it's like it usually is worth it, don't get me wrong, for all of those cold water people divers, but uh I have yet to see a mola mola underwater. I did, however, see him above water from a liverboard. So Okay, that counts.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

That's a win. I was gonna ask about Lembe. Lembe.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Well, I guess it's on the you're writing us uh on the same track right here again because macro. If Bali is amazing, and when I mention uh Raja Ampa being the Mecca, the holy place, whatever you want to call it, Lembe is that for macro photography. You so it's muck diving, it's the best muck diving in the world because I've yet to experience it better. A lot of people tell me about some areas in the Philippines, but let's talk about this thing called the Coral Triangle. It's a big massive thing. The further you go out of the center, the less coral variations you have, the less aquatic life you have, and the closer you're in, the more you have, obviously. Guess who's at the center? And memory happens to be right there too. So it's it's a wild roller coaster ride for finding critters and really geeking out. And that's yeah, my personally, my favorite uh underwater creature is a nudie branch. I love nudie branch. Okay, their variations, the the sheer amount of them and the size the size variations, it's just the most phenomenal thing. And if you you know, you you'll see the usual suspects, and you're like, all right, I've seen that a million times. But then you find this one special dude or dudette, whatever it may be, and ah, it is just so much fun. This is where I tell when I guide, this is when I tell my guests, I'm like, you chill and check that out because this is awesome. You're not just gonna go look and be like, okay, and then swim off.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

No, no, no, no, no. You look that's gonna be now.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

I have to interrupt you for a second, Ronan, because I see you doing what Todd and I do a lot, and uh it's how do you know if someone's a diver when they start talking with their hands? We're gonna go this way. We're gonna let's go up, let's go down. Hey, hey, look, look, look over there. You just everything's talking with your hands, right?

Todd 46:41

Exactly right. I'm sure you've gone to this experience where you have uh maybe you're you're leading a dive with an unwanted photographer and like you see the super rare critter, you know, especially if it's a nudie and you're like, oh my god, this nudie is super rare, you're gonna take a picture of that. And he looks at it and he's like, whatever, snap, and they're like, you don't understand. Exactly. Spend the whole dive. You got whatever time you got left, use it all taking this thing. Because you're never gonna see it.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

I don't care if you're at 20 bars. I know I said at 20 bars you should be up, but we're already doing the safety stuff, chill right here and enjoy. Yeah, that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Yeah, I always try to always try to tell new divers, you know, because they're they're always wanting to see the big stuff. Oh, I want to see sharks, I want to see you know, mana rays, I want to see whale sharks, I want to see whatever. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. You you really need to dive into the macro. And there's so much diversity there and color and style that it's just amazing. It's amazing.

Todd 47:40

I mean I mean, talk about alien worlds, just seeing so many crazy, crazy things. Like you said, the Nudibranks alone, they're just like insane. I never understood when I first went to Lembe. I knew that was where I was gonna get into macro and see all this great stuff, and like, oh, you're gonna see blue ring octopus, Matoti, and this and that. I had no concept of what how big or small a blue ring octopus was. I just knew they were super poisonous. And when you get there and then finally see it, and it's like, you know, it's the size of a golf ball or less. I'm like, holy crap! And then you and then you watch it and it's fascinating, and then flamboyant cuttlefish, and it's like, oh my god, like look, it's just oh man, it is so crazy, and all the crazy stuff you see, and the fact that things that are super rare that you're lucky to see once every several dives everywhere else, it's almost like cheating when you're in Lembe, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:28

You see that's what I was about to say, exactly what I was about to say. You know, it's like that one time you get that awesome creature somewhere else, Lembe again. Oh, that's nice. I've seen three on this dive already.

Todd 48:45

Get bored of seeing frogfish.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

They had this thing where you you can request what you would like to see. Yeah. This is not a zoo, friends. So requesting, oh, I want to see uh bumblebee shrimp or something like that. That's not just gonna happen like this, you know? Or it's like, oh yeah, yeah, I want to see a harlequin eating uh freaking starfish or whatever. It's not a fish, it's a sea star, so let's I'm at. But yeah, regardless, um, you know, it's like there, the get the guys would be like, Oh, you want to see that? Uh oh, you want to see a Halimata ghost pipe fish? Uh-huh. Okay, cool. And oh, let me throw in this bonus of the flamboyant cuddlefish that he just mentioned and the hairy frogfish and all of these other things, and blah blah blah. You know, it's just yeah.

Todd 49:32

So what do you want to so then what do you want to do on day three? Because we'll get there with all that stuff on day one and two, no problem.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

Basically, basically. And after that, you just perfect the shot.

Todd 49:43

Yes, exactly. Yeah. All right, so you mentioned you're you're a little apprehensive of cold water. So, what do what's your stance on Komodo then? Since it can on the ground of the curve get a little bit chilly.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

It's a give and take, right? So it is. As is all in life. Um, and Komodo is one of those things you have to take the cold, but you will be rewarded with a spectacle that is breathtaking. So uh yeah, I mean, I love macro, I love geeking out on the small stuff, but you know, everybody starts with the big stuff and wants to see the big stuff. And Komodo offers you that stuff, you know, it will give you the mantis, the reef mantis up in the north. If you're lucky, uh pelagic ones or oceanics uh down in the south. You will have a variety of rays out there, you know, anything from Eagle Race to Marble race and all of that good stuff. And you have your sharks, so how awesome is that? But Komodo is not for the faint-hearted, in my opinion, especially if you hit it at a time where it's kicking. I mean, it's a channel, guys. Water gets funneled. Bajillions of gallons of that gallon. Sure, look at you. You can do liters.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

It's like, wait, wait, wait a minute. Can I say ounces? Sure. Okay. Anyway, let's not get into that.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

That's regarded. Uh Komodo is just wicked, you know. So up in the north, I would still dive in board shorts, but the further south you go, it is inevitable. You have to start uh wearing neoprene. And for me at least, um, I would try to do a few of the dives with a three mil or something like that. But I live on a boat, so I don't get much exercise, and the food's phenomenal. And it just happens to be that my favorite pastime or activity for that matter in all of life is eating. So yeah, I dig in and I mean Todd, just remember that food on Coralia is like oh yeah, it's awesome.

Todd 51:46

But I also remember half of our conversations in between dives were just about uh food and the food that you missed from the States. Yep, yep, and exactly good food in Germany. So yeah, yeah. I'm with you on that. I think we're both with you on that.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Yeah, yeah. Todd Todd would tell me how good the food was there, and and we did a liveaboard in um Maldives. Food was not so good there.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Yeah, I know. I've done a few trips on the Maldives as well, and yeah, seriously, the standard Indonesia is yeah world class, you know. And that's the thing, you know, it's like I'll dive in colder water with less millimeters just in the hopes of shivering off some biofream.

Todd 52:32

Yeah, so let's talk about what happened around the time you know COVID hit. Obviously, I think it got this started uh happening, you know, the end of 2019, November, December.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

When did the March, right? When it really hit big and shut things down.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Ooh, I was like, you are presenting me with the firing line right now. I don't know if we want to talk about your president.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

Oh no, we're not we're not talking about that. We do not no politics on this show.

Todd 53:03

You know, as the end of 2019 hits and then beginning of 2020, March, January, February, March, and I know even in so much of Indonesia is uh based on tourism, especially in the dive industry, obviously, is all foreign tourists coming in. What was that experience like and and for you personally, and then for all your coworker friends, uh how was it impacted and what's the state of things as as we are now? It's uh December 2020. Where where to where does the state of the industry look like?

SPEAKER_01 53:36

Yeah, um, that is a bit of a grim tale, to be honest. Yeah, uh, it's not an easy one. Um still trying to figure out myself what's happening. Well, I know what's happening, but what can be done about it? And the thing is, yeah, this year has been absolutely crazy to say the least, and we're all in in the same boat. But uh in that sense, you know, when when I I got on Coralia, I mentioned the part-time gig where I would only work a certain amount of time in the year, right? And I had foolishly made plans for 2020 to be traveling and doing all of these cool things, you know. And I remember I I got the I was on um at the end of the year, I was still on Koralyam, and after New Year's, I jetted over to Europe uh and stayed in Europe and actually traveled quite a bit while I was still here. This was January time, some from January January till February. I traveled to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and uh a few places in Europe in of itself before I then uh moved back to Indonesia. And at the time is when Corona started you know being a thing and people were talking about it. I noticed it when I went to uh uh Egypt, where I actually went on the dive vacation because I hadn't been in decades, and I had uh dove there when I was younger, and I went to Hugada, and that was the first time you know when we landed, people would come some somebody would come in with uh their little laser gun and then point it at your head and see if whether or not you have fever. And that's when I was like, oh all right, let's see how this is going. And then, you know, Saudi was still all right in that sense, and Europe, once I once back in Europe and I wanted to leave to Indonesia, the person who was checking me in looked at my passport, you know, and I was like, and it's I used passport. I crap, I go all I use the damn thing all the time, and she's like, Oh, this is not in the best condition. I'm like, you're the first person to ever bother me with this. Are you kidding me? She made me buy a cover for it, but you know, long story short, uh, she was asking me, see, are you sure you want to go? You do know the COVID-19 or coronavirus is currently going rampant in all of Southeast Asia. And I'm like, Lady, I live and work there. Yeah, uh and as long as there's flights, unless you tell me there's no flight, I can give my boss a good enough excuse to say, Hey, I'm still stuck in Europe, my dad, you know. So I actually made it back and I went on another tour and that's when this is what around what time of year I can't remember around what we're gonna do.

Todd 56:30

This is February. February, okay.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

February, yeah, February, and we're going in uh towards March. Yeah, and that's when yeah shit hit the fan. Yeah, use my French, but yeah. Uh I re we had a Russian uh set and European set, so Germans and Swiss people and we told them, you know, it's like things are going not the way they should be in the world, and we m don't know what it's gonna be like. And I mentioned the reception part earlier with the cell phone coverage and whatnot. So we decided to go down south to Miso. Um and in Miso you do not have reception, right? The only thing you have is satellite. Satellite, yep. And uh, you know, who is who who has their personal satellite to check in on what the world's doing every now and then. Of course, we did. Uh I knew what was going on. I was still in touch with what was going uh uh happening in the world. And once we came back in um to the Dampier Strait, that's when all the calls came in. That was one of the most sleepless tours I've ever had, you know, having to talk to all of the travel agents, uh family members, and you name it, you know, it's like I had to I had to deal with this. And then, of course, with the guests and trying to figure out what to do, you know, and then this was the time when a lot of news just hit and nobody really knew what it was. It was just kind of a lot of scare tactics, and you know, uh we have these Russians, which was quite hilarious, you know, because we get all these news like, oh yeah, corona's shutting down countries, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then, like, you know what they're doing in our country, you should see. And he showed me lion walking out on the street. And and I'm looking at it, it's like Putin releases lion to keep people at home. And I'm like, What? Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_02 58:13

This is a troll, you know? It's like that's the internet. I cannot believe what the internet says. It's like, it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

But yeah, I had we had to evacuate people. Uh so for a few people, uh, the trip ended early, and we got them into an area where we could uh speedboat them off to the next ferry and uh back home as soon as possible. And um yeah, every day everything changed, and in Indonesia, nobody knew how to really react. It was it was weird. You know, you could see there was a lot of trepidation in not only my um bosses uh or eyes and uh the people that I worked there, but the the you know, the Indonesians, they got it. They're like not so good, you know. It's like, and of course, uh it's like wildfire that spreads and panic. Well, it's not panic, but just this fear was there of what's what's next, what's gonna happen. Yeah, trust me, getting out of Pad Jampa wasn't easy.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

And when was your uh when was your last day on the boat? End of February, beginning of March? Around that time frame.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

Um I just remember when I was getting off. I was just gonna be there for one tour, that's it, and then start my part-time cruise director gig and go traveling and life set. Hell no. Yeah, so uh I I was stuck in well, I thought I was gonna be stuck in Raja for a while, and I know that sounds fantastic, but no, it's a different story if you visit it. It's a different story if you're actually there and there's nothing else around, you know. It's like there's internet, but if they run out of gasoline, there ain't no internet for until whenever there's gasoline, and who knows when that's gonna happen. People were isolating, shutting down, and uh banning travel. My flight got canceled four times, all of these things. My coworkers had just uh returned as well, and they're like, you better get out of here before everything shuts down. And I made it on a plane uh the very next day um to get me to Bali still, and in Bali, that's when I went into a five-month isolation period, which was bonkers.

Todd 1:00:24

So you isolated in Bali for for almost half a year then.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

Again, it sounds much more beautiful than it was dark and brown.

Todd 1:00:32

Right, yeah, the reality. Yeah, it's not like you're in a you know at the the Ritz-Carlton, you know, at beach side.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:39

All the fruit from the Ritz Carlton because nobody was there to eat all the fruit. So they were basically showing you all of that stuff in next to nothing, but that's where you could really see how bad everybody was hid. You know, uh it's easy talking about my experience, but I cannot fathom what it's like for my crew members.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:56

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

All of them at work in the industry, you know, they're dependent on this is their lively. Yeah. And it's gone like this. And we don't know when it's gonna start again. Well, that's that's my next question. Back back in March, we were like, all right, we're looking into November, you know, it's like we'll we'll wait it out, it'll be a few months, you know, the summer won't be as good. We'll have time for dry dog. Right. And then you know, each month it got kicked back, kicked back, okay. Maybe maybe January next year, maybe this, maybe that, and forget about it. Even if the vaccine is distributed, not within the next year or so, or two years at least, will it start to be able to recuperate from the damage that COVID has wreaked?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

Any any word on when things will open back up? Who's to say? Same boat. Yeah, who is to say? Yeah, we're all getting in that same boat now.

Todd 1:01:48

We had uh we had a trip to Japan last year. We're supposed to go last April, and so we we delayed it uh because the airlines are gonna let you push it out a year, so we delayed it until next March, and Japan's not gonna be open in March. So we have like no one, yeah, no one quite knows. Yeah, so Olympics are gonna be uh I I wanted to this year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

This year, I wanted to go to Japan too because this has nothing to do with diving, but I love skateboarding and it made it into the Olympics, and I wanted to see that. Yeah, yeah, and I wanted to see a huge Gundam that they built because that's awesome. You know, I was like, this is gonna be so great, but it didn't happen because all of this. And who's to say they say 2021 is gonna be Olympic year, but again, it's gonna be tight tight, yeah. I mean you know, it's like okay, the only people who've really done it are the UFC, and they've done it the best, in my opinion.

Todd 1:02:41

And the NBA and NBA had their had their bubble, but they can't do that with the Olympics, right? Exactly. Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:48

So well, actually you could do that because well, I guess you've so many different events do Olympic camps. Do they since Munich they don't do Olympic camps anymore? I don't know. I don't know because that went way bad back in the day. Yeah, but yeah.

Todd 1:03:02

But it's gonna be tough. I'm sure obviously they're gonna try that it's gonna be right on the borderline. Uh you know, maybe it'll be athlete-only event, but in that's the case, why not just postpone it? Because you're not gonna generate any revenue if that's the case.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

So that's what it's all about, revenue. Yeah, but besides all of that, Japan, amazing place for nudie pranks, by the way. Really cool.

Todd 1:03:21

So have you you so you've been diving in Japan? So uh no, no, no, no. It's it's a dream of mine, actually.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:27

I I want to go to Okinawa, I'm gonna surf a little bit there as well as diving. And I'll even check out the colder spots. But uh a lot of pictures that I've seen when I look at where they've been shot, well, especially when it comes to nudie branks, yeah. A lot of them say Japan. It's cold water diving. So here I am, willing to say I'll jump in there just to get my kicks from this tiny minuscule thing that the majority of the world doesn't even know exists.

Todd 1:03:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:53

You know, so cool.

Todd 1:03:55

Have you talked to some of your friends, you know, local Indonesian residents? Like, what have the what are they doing to buy the uh bide their time, find local jobs? Like I I'm sure all the dive masters, all the folks that we met are have gotta be struggling to find work and to get income for the family. It's gotta be tough times over there.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

That's to say the least. Um Yeah, this is gonna take a tragic turn if we continue talking about this. It's kind of sad actually, because there is nothing to do. You know, what are you gonna do when there is nothing to make the money from? Because your viewers, you myself, we're some the very reason most of these people have jobs. Right. You know, fortunately a lot of companies have kept a lot of the key um crew members on, you know, to keep things going. Coralia, for instance, is in dry doc right now. She is getting prepped for the event eventuality that we will have guests.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

Yeah, but there's only so much you can do to the to the boat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:02

Exactly. But it that's so little that little bit is going to employ a few people for that moment. You know, they will have the the week or two or a month of scraping barnacles off of a freaking hole, but that makes you know, puts not bread on the table, but rice on the table for them, you know.

unknown 1:05:22

Yeah.

Todd 1:05:23

Well, yeah, I know it's a downer, but I think it's good to bring, you know, bring to attention because it's easy to forget what makes the industry run and call attention to it. And it's nice to hear that operators, like I'm sure the correlator is finding ways to to keep as many people employed as they can before they can go out go out of business or can't afford to anymore. So it's good to at least hear the folks that uh we're used to working with are doing whatever they can. So you finally made it back to uh your homeland in Ger your other homeland in Germany after being stuck in Bali for five months. And what's it like being back?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

Well, currently they are revving up the restrictions. Months more. So there's a curfew at nine o'clock now, which is all right. George Orwell, you said it. You know, he really wrote it back then. This is happening. Um but uh yeah. Um I was able to travel a bit and see friends and family, which did a world of good for me. You know, it's like I have it's it's crazy, you know, on a boat I never have time. And now I have this very rare luxury of having way too much time. Right. And it's a blessing and a curse because you know, there's this the social parameters of what are you doing? You know, it's like, are you doing much of uh of anything at all? You know, it's like everybody's trying to get by, but uh to be able to live without a worry at this point in time is the utmost luxury. And currently at this point in time, I get to have that and I cherish it. I cherish it very much because it gives me time to reflect, it gives me time to see whether or not uh different avenues um should be explored. Right. Regardless of you know how hard it is, yeah, I'm still connected to the tourism industry and what may come of it. So of course I have hopes uh that everything will recover swiftly and you know I will be able to also come back, work, and dive. You know, it's it's nuts. I go diving all the time, you know. It's like when you said earlier that you didn't go on every dive, it's like dude, because I can go diving anytime I want. Yeah, but uh it's it's not meant to be a bad thing, it's just uh it's it's not even to say I've seen it, you know. It's like that's the the worst thing you could do as a diver when you're just like, oh I've been there already, I've seen it. No dive, no two dives are the same. The things you can find, you know, the things you can refind or whatever, it it's just that's something that I miss, you know. And yeah, it's it's given me so much. It's given me a purpose, it's given me a direction, and COVID took that away, you know. So it's it's been an adjustment, it's been uh difficult, but thanks to friends, family, uh I get to keep a clear head and keep my head above water for that matter.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:16

Now, what do you think uh is there something above cruise director that you want to set a goal toward? Yeah, do you want to be you know boat captain? Uh I don't know that that is any better than or higher than or you know another build his own boat, own your own resort. Own your own own your own boat.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:40

Do you have uh what what's your ambition?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:45

My ambition in that sense is non-existent because uh I've also seen what goes on behind the scenes, and as fine and dandy as everything may appear to the to the AIs, it's not always that easy. And taking that massive risk of building something, you know, it's just uh from all of my bosses, uh Pendito, Amira, and Alcoralia, to venture on that path and say, I'm going to take that risk and build this ship and do this thing in the hopes that I'll be able to put food on the table because that's what it's all about at the end of the day. You know, it's like sure, some people are more wealthy and uh everybody needs their toys, it's okay, it's cool, you know. Um, but it it costs a lot to do that, and I don't think in this day and age it's an intelligent choice to make, to be honest. Yep, and yeah, you never know what happens to look at COVID. It just the rug gets pulled out from under your feet, and then what? Because if you are the owner of a ship like that, the the thoughts that must go through your head, you know, it's like the fear, the trepidation, the anxiety, it's just because it's not just you and your family, it's you, the the crew, the people, the and all of these things, and it's just wow. I uh have utmost respect for all of those people who are holding their heads up high and trying to get through it and working for a better tomorrow, it's the best, you know. It gives me hope.

Todd 1:10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

So yeah, I don't know what I'm gonna do.

Todd 1:10:39

I think you know it's good that for the people that want to have the ambition, and uh it's gotta, like you said, it's gotta be a tremendously difficult time for them right now. But not everyone has to have that ambition to I need to own my own resort. Like there's something to be said for especially what if you're a diver, you realize the fact that you get to appreciate nature, the lifestyle getting, especially working industry, showing other people your worlds that they've never seen before, and having and being able to have you know your your boat, your cabin that's this small, you don't have a ton of possessions, you have a nice, easy, low, you know, low-key lifestyle, and you get to see some of the most amazing things on the entire planet, and then share that with so many different people. That that's that's amazing, uh, an amazing life as it is. So uh for the people that want to do more, that's great. Uh, but for the people that you've already at the Mecca at some point, like you're in the best place to dive in the world, and still can continue to share that amazing thing with other people. So you're already living in the city.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

Ambition like that is is always or or can be a double-edged sword because the further up the ladder you climb, the more you look back and go, Man, I should I should have just stayed being a dive master. Yeah, it was much easier then.

Todd 1:11:59

But then there's the other things like uh conservation and like uh formal and informal. There's lots of opportunities already working in Rajampa that's doing things to help participate in that. That there's some great opportunities there. I know we talked about it a little bit, even in planning your dive itineraries for Corlea, that was always a consideration, right? Everyone's in Ms. will have to go crowded to go to um, you know, uh some of the most famous Manta dives where say, well, you know what? There's there's hundreds of dive sites. You know, we don't we don't want to sit there and destroy the one thing that everyone had. So why don't we just go to these other dive sites that are less explored because it's a it's a win-win. It's less stressed on this when we have hundreds of boats. How many boats thrown in are there in Raja Umpat?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:43

By now, well, actually, by now it might have been reduced by quite a bit, which I'm so sorry to say. It's it's a it's a silver lining of what the unintended benefit, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:54

Let's say in 2019.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:55

Unintended benefit in that sense, but uh yeah, no, it's it's ridiculous. It's over 80 at least at this point. I stopped counting at 50, you know. I was like, because you are in a so you're looking at a world map and you're looking at this uh island nation, and you see the space, this big ocean must be nice, right? But no, the problem is uh, you know, of course, us divers, we want to know what it's like where people where other people have been. Is it worth it to go? And when I talked about uh when you asked me about the locations that I've been to, you know, it's like there's a reason Raja Ampad is the Mecca, where it's the number one. And the problem with that though is a lot of people have reported on it, and then they report on specific dive sites where they've had this amazing dive, and people read this, and unbeknownst to them, you know, they they form this idea that this is gonna be what it's gonna be like, you know. So that's what they're gonna expect. And when they go there, that's what they want to have. And if they don't get that, they're gonna be disappointed. Yep. And as I said, you know, you have to juggle these things, and it's like I could literally take you to a world-famous dive site called Magic Mountain, which is magical. Right. It's true to its name, and it's fantastic, but everybody, everybody, all of the boats, all of the resorts, and well, Miso, they all go there. You know, Miso Miso resort is an amazing concept in which they are actually the shepherds of that general region, they made it uh a protected area. So MPAs are uh few and far between in Indonesia, and MPAs is what every diver should want to be able to dive in. And they are the ones controlling and patrolling these things, and that's why there's a hierarchy in things and there's a rule and order to things where you actually have to uh radio in, you know, it's like I will wake up at five in the morning to radio uh if I can with the other boats to see whether or not there's a schedule going on, or at five in the afternoon check in with the resort and say, Hey, can I have a slot? Because then you are in the system, and that's how the dive set I at least gets a break from overcrowdedness. Because imagine each boat has up to at least 16 guests, you know, like the bigger ones or the normal ones, whatever, 16 to 20 guests, less if for a few others, but that's just your boat, plus your dive goods, plus moi who wants to go diving today, right? You know, that's just over 20 people in the water already. Multiply that by 80. Imagine them exactly, and then boat A and uh B and C come in and want to dive at the same time because seven o'clock or eight o'clock in the morning is the magic hour for the mantas to come in, you know, at least such as the folklore, right? And then you have 60 divers there, and it's just nuts. At least that doesn't happen in Raja, but I can say that that is an example of certain um other dive sites which you know suffer from that. So yeah, uh it would be a uh possibility to see whether or not there's something to be done in that aspect once it starts recuperating. Uh I hope this time is being used well by the Indonesian government to check um their seas, uh you know that there's no bombing or anything, and that the places get to recover, but just imagine all these die sets are being left alone right now. Yeah, and then when you come back, Raja alone is so ridiculously rich with life, yeah. It's gonna be way too overwhelming. It's gonna be Yeah.

Todd 1:16:34

Yeah, imagine that imagine your first tour back and those dives that you go on. It's it's gonna be every dive. Yeah, and and just like how notice like you'll be like, man, I it's just gonna be so um amazing. I'm sure it's gonna be burned in your brain when you when you finally get to go back and dive those.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:52

So Ronan, I think what you meant to say is we're diving four dives a day.

unknown 1:16:58

Right.

Todd 1:16:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:00

We are diving. We're doing we're doing this.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:08

Whenever your first boat back, you tell them you've got it booked.

Todd 1:17:13

Since your dad was an underwater photographer, did you ever dabble in it? Uh, did you kind of just leave that to the guests to do? Uh you just stay clear. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:23

Yeah, uh, it's a stigma kind of thing. It's like, oh my, your dad's an underwater photographer. You must be an underwater photographer. You know, if that's a family thing for your family, that's fine and dandy, but I happen to be related to the dude who wrote a few books that are somewhat known in the industry. So it I never thought that anybody would necessarily compare me, per se, but it's inevitable. You are going to be getting uh be compared, you know. It's like and what my dad did that I find much more respectable, no offense to all of the new tech gadget freaks out there, he shot analog. None of it was digital. So that shot that you saw in that book was that moment. It wasn't a choice from 50 million other ones, you know. Yeah. So uh and with with being a guide, you know, when I do guide, I do not have the luxury to be taking pictures of everything. Right. That's my responsibility. Yep. Uh so I have to do that. And um when I do my free dives or my fun dives, I'll do my fun dives, you know. But essentially, uh I let the guests uh take care of that. And you know, I I was able, I'm I'm allowed to handle a lot of these things. You know, a lot of people you want to try it, you know. It's like Eddie uh from Menwila, the guy from Pendito, he used to film with this massive red camera. I mean, we're talking about a monster. We're not talking about the new ones where the compact and everything. Yeah, no, we're talking about 4K was a thing, you know? Yeah, and it took two people to lift it. So me and one of the crew members used to lift it, get it down the stairs and put it on uh the dinghy, and then go to the die site. He would jump in, then I would heave the thing by myself, uh do my little, you know, four gray skull nuts and then just give it to him. But underwater, you could play with that thing on your hand like this. I mean, this thing is a bus. You're holding it like this, and you're like but yeah, you know, filming the schools of fish in Raja with that is it's actually that's one of my favorite dive visuals. That's of interest, but you know, seeing just a bay ball going nuts, the the beautiful iridescent colors and the reflections, and then just tunis or whatever have you shooting through there trying to get to them. That is one of the coolest things. That's why there should never be, oh, I'm just a macro diver. Oh, I'm I just like big things. Live it all, enjoy it all. That's what it's exactly.

Todd 1:20:02

Yeah. That it's funny, you're one of the first people that worked in the dive industry that I heard that when they go on vacation also will go somewhere else to dive. Usually most of the dive masters that I talk to are dive cruise directors, they want to go in the snow or they just want to go home and do whatever. You're you're probably the one and only person I know that actually say, Oh yeah, I'll go to the Red Sea because I haven't been there and and dive there. So it's truly in your blood, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:28

Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:30

I mean, there are moments where I, especially when I used to be uh on the boat for a long time, uh, where I just wanted to have a land experience where I didn't really want to do anything. And uh the trip to Egypt was a thing for my cousin's 30th birthday, you know. And they were doing they were diving, you know, getting you know their feet wet for the first time or the one of the first few times. And they're hooked, you know, him and his girlfriend. We went there uh with this whole shebang. She did her advanced open water divers so she got down uh you know to 80 meters and whatnot, and we just had a blast. I mean, my cousin, he uh I I've been diving for 20 plus years. He's been diving for five or something like that, six, seven years. He's been to Komodo with me, and he's been to Raja with me. This is been spoiled.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:18

So I told him it's like we gotta go somewhere where it's a little bit more realistic. Let's go to Egypt, you know. It's like it's still dope, it's still really cool stuff to see, but it's definitely not Raja.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:28

You know, you bring him out here to California where you know the water might get to 70 in the summer, and you know, visibility is you know 15 feet.

Todd 1:21:37

Yeah, Ronan's Q, but no v2. Vetoing that one. Fair enough. Fair enough. Well, Ronan, thanks so much for all this time. But we're before we let you go, Dalton and I usually have uh a little thing that we do called the dive brief, where we just have five rapid fire questions that we ask our every guest. So uh okay, question number one, Ronan. What is your favorite dive snack?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:09

Yeah, so much for firing questions. I'm I'm going through the roster of things that I need to be like you can you can give me your top three if it's easier. On which boat? It's like dive snack, just anything big, to be honest, anything sweet and delicious.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:25

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:26

Um, what's your favorite piece of dive gear? That's a good one, actually. I'd say fence because you well nowadays you can even go with the wetsuit, you can go nuts. Uh I got it, I had a Bruce Lee wetsuit for a while there. Uh nice. Yeah, the yellow with the black stripe.

Todd 1:22:44

Yeah, man, that's the best dude. That's awesome. Oh, that there you go. Do you have a picture of you in that? We can make that your pro the podcast profile picture.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:52

There we go. That is awesome. I'll send you that picture for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:00

Uh yeah, I'll take, I mean, essential diving equipment, obviously a regulator, but it had to be a cool regulator.

Todd 1:23:07

So I like yeah, do whatever's cool, whatever's the coolest, it could be it doesn't have to be the most essential, coolest, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:12

Like you said, you're boosting wet to be the most expensive, it just has to be cool. And that's why I like fins because it does show a little bit of personality uh with you know different divers. You know, there's always the ninja diver who's going all black. Yeah, I'm much more of a colorful individual, so I have my pink fins, I have my white fins. You know, it's just like you need to see me, so that's why I'm doing it, and plus I like colors.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:34

Same ticket. I got like I love my full foot fins. I and I've got the same, I've got blue ones and red ones, but I mix match them. So I have I wear a blue one and a red one at the same time. That's that's when I when I get when I guide and I instruct us, say just look for the mismatched fins, you'll you'll see me. Yeah, yeah.

Todd 1:23:51

That's the one thing you don't have to conform with everyone else just because they say you, you know, just do what you want. Uh okay, question number three. If you could choose somewhere to dive that you haven't been before, where would you go?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:04

Japan. Nice, nice. Yep. That's that's an easy one. Yeah, so going back similar to number one, what is your favorite post-dive drink? Or probably any tea with ginger in it.

Todd 1:24:18

All right. Right on. Yep. Your favorite sea animal.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:24

Well, since that one was so easy.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:26

Wait, wait, wait. What what section? What section? Because there's of course I like manta race and I like all the other cool stuff, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:32

So yeah, psychedelic frogs, we shall bonus. So we're gonna like that. Psychedelic frogs.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:37

So we're gonna go for a for a bonus round and we'll say uh what's the most frustrating thing about diving?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:45

Watching people with bad buoyancy.

Todd 1:24:47

Oh so true. That's an easy one too.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:53

Yes, yes, very good. Right on.

Todd 1:24:56

So when did you see your two where did you see your two psychedelic frogfish, by the way?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:00

Oh my man. This place called Ambon or Ambon, actually, which is in the Moluccus, and wow, it is phenomenal. You're going into this, you know, it's like uh a strait that goes into a harbor area, and you're diving with a lot of trash next to you, you know, diapers, you name it, plastic bags, batteries, everything's there. And there's a slope of some what do you call them? The mushroom corals, you know, a lot of them are flipped over because that's where they like a hide. And then twice in my life I was able to see for a long time without anybody disturbing me before I I got the other people that never happened. Uh I I saw it, I found it, and I got the other people. Right away. No, no, no. I actually enjoyed that. And I was like, actually, I before and after, you know, when people take pictures of it just to look at it, because that's a very good creature. Not everybody's gotten to see that. You know, people literally, the second it gets posted, people travel from wherever they are to that destination in the hopes of getting the opportunity to shoot a picture of that.

Todd 1:26:09

Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. That's awesome. Well, uh, man, Ronan, thank you so much for joining us today. Uh man, I'm sure we could talk for several more hours, but it's late over there in Frankfurt. Maybe we can maybe we can do it again once you guys get the world gets turned right side up again, and you get a break from your first time back on Coralia, and we can talk about it a trip report, and we can kind of touch base and hopefully under more exciting circumstances.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:40

Or or we can do one from the Coralia.

Todd 1:26:43

In person, yes. We'll do it from the boat. In person, not from the boat. That now we're talking would be the best way to do that. That's what I'm thinking. Amen. Amen. Uh we'll see what we can we'll see if we can do it. Keep us in mind, you have last-minute cancellations, we'll just fly out and and come come meet you.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:59

Roger that.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:00

Roger. It was great meeting you, bud, for sure. Hey, likewise, likewise.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:05

It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me. Again, apologize that it took so long, but don't worry about it.

Todd 1:27:11

Yeah, stay safe, dude, and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks everyone for listening. Uh hey Ronan, anywhere people can find you online, find uh more about Corel. Instagram, Corelia, Facebook, Instagram, all that fun stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:25

I'm a ghost. I like to keep it that way. If you find me, you can find me, but otherwise, forget the butt otherwise check out Coralia.

Todd 1:27:33

That's uh that's where he's working, has been working at currently at the Fantastic Liverboard, great crew, and great interim cruise director. We may be biased. Thank you, thank you. That's right. All right, guys. Uh we'll catch everyone uh soon. Thanks for listening, and thanks so much, Roman, for your time. Really appreciate it.