023: Henry Mather - South Florida Diving and Underwater Photography

Henry Mather is a South Florida based dive master and underwater photographer.  During our chat, we talk about some of Florida's most famous dives from Blue Heron Bridge to the wrecks of Key Largo, and much more!

In this episode, we talk about a few of Henry's images.  You will be able to view these pictures as chapter art if you use the OVERCAST podcast player.  Otherwise, just check out the show notes in the link below to see them.

(All photos courtesy and copyright of Henry Mather)

Show Notes
Check out the full show notes and more of Henry's pictures here.

Watch It On YouTube:
Our conversation with Henry can also be seen on YouTube.

More of Henry Mather's Work:

• Instagram - hanxplace
• Facebook - hanxplace | Photo Namaste

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Transcript

Introduction

Todd 0:08

Welcome to the Aquatic Life, podcast about underwater photography, diving, and adventure travel. I'm Todd Reimer, and with me as always is Dalton Ham. Today we got a great guest lined up for you. Henry Mather is a South Florida-based diver and underwater photographer. He also happens to be a great friend of the podcast. He's uh longtime friends with Dalton, and I've known him for a couple years. Really great guy, another great interview. As with our past podcasts with guest interviews, uh, use the Overcast Podcast Player if you can, or check out our show notes. Any photographs that we reference will be in the chapter art and in our show notes. So check them out there. Uh it will enhance your experience. So without further ado, let's meet Henry Mather.

Let's Meet Henry Mather

Todd 1:11

Welcome to the Quarterly Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Thanks for inviting me. It's awesome to be here. Welcome.

Todd 1:22

Doing the wave, doing the wave.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Welcome aboard, Henry.

Todd 1:28

Henry is not only a friend of the podcast, but uh a longtime friend of Dalton's, and and I'd like to include myself in there. I've known Henry for a few years and Dalton even longer. So why don't we start off and uh talk about uh how Henry and Dalton how you guys know each other?

SPEAKER_02 1:44

We met through friends. Uh Dave, right? Dave and Mickey?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yeah, yeah. We were having uh you guys were having dinner at Dive Bar. Yeah. Uh I mean it was totally the appropriate uh meeting. We we we we met in a in a place called Dive Bar that is a dive bar that serves sushi. Yeah and is surrounded by boats and dive boats.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

So yeah, it was great to be amongst friends, and it was awesome. Lifelong friends with uh Dalton and Ramona.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

So yeah, yeah. Uh it was a good time, and we just hit it off instantly. And next thing you know, we were diving together and traveling together and you know, drinking together and barbecuing and you know, talking dive stories and photography photos. I love it.

Todd 2:32

And and uh to go back to that, so dive bar is based in uh South Florida.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Jupiter, Florida. Jupiter, Florida.

Todd 2:39

And Jupiter, and uh that's where you're based currently, Henry, right? Near near Barbara.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Just a little nerd north of there called Hobe Sound. Beautiful little fishing village.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Uh speaking of beautiful little fishing village, you got a beautiful little resort village going on at your place, man. You've been crushing it.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

It's a lot of work. When I when I can't dive during this COVID mess, um I'm pouring a lot of that energy into the backyard and making an oasis, so I don't have to go to a I don't have to go anywhere. I just sit in the backyard.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Hey, nothing wrong with that, man. Nothing wrong with that. It is I wouldn't mind spending uh a few days sitting in your backyard. You're both welcome.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Anytime we can have a um an aquatic life here in the backyard next to the Buddha.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

We we will definitely take you up on that as soon as flights are easy to do.

Todd 3:24

So why don't we give the our loyal podcast listeners a little background on you, Henry? Tell us about how you got into diving and uh where you know where you started off and how you also branched into underwater photography.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Well, I mean, I've been diving forever. I think a lot of people, you know, me being around a pool, I was a swimmer all my life, swimmer in high school, swimmer in college, always around pools. And I I think I grabbed somebody's tank at some time, my older brother maybe, with one of those old aqua long uh BC or um uh regulators, and just did it without being actually trained, just learned off what my brother had been done. And then in high school, I did the um not the Boy Scout course, but there was a local community. Like I think I was a uh a 4-H farmer and they had it as well. But it was just something we could do as an activity uh in the quarries in Illinois. And then when I moved to Florida, is when I really, really got into it. Um, being down here, it's just a heaven to do anything scuba diving related.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Gotta love the water in Florida, man.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

And then yeah, when I got out of college when I could actually afford scuba diving uh and had a job, is is when I became a as paid for the money to become a dive master. And that's really when diving, the love of diving, is is just helping others and making sure that everybody's safe and everybody's corralled, because that's as you know, the job of a dive master is really to be let's rewind for just a second.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

You were a high school swimmer and you were a college swimmer, but you weren't just a college swimmer, you were a D1 college swimmer.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Yeah, I went to the University of Texas and the University of Alabama, hook them horns and roll tide. Roll tide. And uh was a collegiate swimmer and swam in the NCAAs and did quite well. Didn't really win anything, but you're already a winner at that stage, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, to to swim for a D1 college, I mean that's that's no joke, right? It's your life. It it really really is your life. And just uh just an interesting story for for the guys listening. Yeah, I I knew Henry was a D1 swimmer, and I knew he was a very good swimmer, but we were in St. Thomas, and we were just out on a boat, hanging out, having some cocktails early in the morning. We weren't diving that day, we were just having a boat day. And we all kind of jump in the water playing around, and Henry's like, I'm gonna swim over to that island. I'm like, okay, bud. And I turn around and say something to one of the guys on the boat and turn back around to look for Henry, and he's almost at the island. And and this is and this is a couple hundred yards away. It's not like it was, you know, just 50 yards away. I'm talking like two football fields. He just like cooked it, and I was like, uh, okay, and that is several, and that's several years after college. That's not you know, that wasn't too long ago.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

That was that was your wedding year.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yes, yeah, that's three, yeah, like three years ago. You can always tell the difference in someone who swam competitively. And so that had to be a huge part of your life. Do you have any uh can you just tell us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Well, I I don't regret it.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

I absolutely love every part of it.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Um I mean, I really didn't go to college for learning. I went for swimming and girls, to be honest. I I I everything about swimming was great because the people I got to meet, the places I got to go, uh all over the world, um, being part of a large college system like that is just fantastic. It's not like a football where you're getting all the stuff. I think we got a speedo and a pair of goggles. That's all we got for free. Um, but it it it really teaches you a lot about how to work as a team, how to work together, um, you know, goal setting, visions, and and making sure that you know how to attain things in life. I mean, that's basic any sport in general. Um, but at a at a D1 level, you get access to a lot of um the sport psychology behind things. So it it was great. And and I realize now how blessed I truly was back then. At the time, I was just, yeah, I'm here having fun, whatever. I'm a kid.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Well, we're all young, young and dumb in college. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

But yeah, it pays off now though, because like you said, you know, I'm sure the discipline pays off here. Yeah, the discipline, I think just my comfortability in water alone is is a payoff because you know, people look at me and say, How come your your buoyancy is so good? I said, I've had years and years and years of practice of that.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Right. So the biggest thing you can do is be comfortable in the water. That's gonna extend your bottom time, it's gonna it uh ease any anxiety that you have, it's just gonna make for an all-around better dive. Yeah, before you pick up a camera, get comfortable in the water. Be good at your buoyancy and just be comfortable in the water. And then you start adding all the gear and gadgets.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Right. My instructor, Richard Rydell, he's he is past, but he was one of the most amazing influences on my life, scuba diving wise. Um I think the first time I brought a little point and shoot to one of my lessons with him, he slapped it out of my hands. He goes, none of that, none of that until you get your dive master. You know, until you prove to me that you can take care of stuff around and the things that I need, you're not gonna hold anything in your hand. You know, it's it's getting rid of the gadgets. And and that's hard sometimes for people. They want to they want to record that. I think in some ways that's a bridge in how I got interested in underwater photography is that a lot of times I would gather up those those uh electronic gadgets that they wouldn't want to, you know, little point shoots and and little cameras that they would bring, and I'd say, you're not gonna need those. You're gonna be focusing on the skills today. Uh and you know, and what I'll have is I'll have it in my pocket. If you want to take a picture, I'll hand it to you, or I'll take a picture for you. And and a lot of you know, a lot of them like the pictures I took. So I think it's just a natural bridge into getting a bigger camera and and having this be a more expensive mistress.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Yeah, and it it uh it definitely becomes uh an addiction, doesn't it? All not just the scuba gear, but the photo gear.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

You get you know, it it kind of we're all early adopters here, so you know what it is like. So anything that comes out, you're you're gonna want, oh, that's cool. You know, that that new Shearwater uh Petrus, ooh, I want that one, man.

unknown 9:29

You know.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Absolutely. But you know, as a as a dive master, it it was one of the best things for me. I've heard you say it on some of the other podcasts that I've listened to. You've got to learn the skills, you've got to be comfortable to know not just where your gear is, but where your gear is while you're focusing on something else. It has to be a blind location. You know, situational awareness is huge in scuba diving. I try to teach that to anybody I come across that you should know exactly where your dump valves are, you should know exactly how to re-trim yourself if you if you're not. Uh because then, you know, one of the experiences I had when I was in um um Roatan, uh, I was diving, doing some scuba diving and some shooting of some, you know, just regular stuff. Um and all of a sudden the camera comes floating down from above. You know, somebody had gotten panicked, they they lost complete situational awareness and just dumped whatever gear they had just to get to the surface. So I had to bring that back up and you know, things like that. Finders keepers, right? Yeah, well, unfortunately it was my girlfriend's and I had to give it back.

Todd 10:35

So well, you're in the right place at the right time for that. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

I'm sure, I'm sure it paid off in the end. So when you got certified, did you go from just your open water course, advanced, and then take a little bit of time, or did you just like plow all the way through to Dive Master in like six months?

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Well, I did open water in advance in Nitrox right off the bat. And I think then it was probably another two or three years later just to become comfortable. I mean, I I fish to water is is basically kind of what I am anyway. So um it wasn't long before I realized that hey, you know, I might be want to make a profession out of this. I I didn't go all the way to the instru to instructor, but you know, I think dive master was perfect for me. You know, it's a cooler title, actually, than instructor, because you can cross your arms like I'm a dive master. Sounds a little more important, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yeah, it really does.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Dive Master.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Yeah.

Henry's Intro To UW Photography

SPEAKER_01 11:32

So when you uh got into photography aspect of it, um did you start with you know the point and shoots that the people were handing you, or did you get your own point and shoot? Did you jump all the way to DSLR? Yeah, sea life.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

I think I kept a couple of times on dives when I had their point and shoots, I realized, hey, I should get something that this is fun because I liked kind of communicating and and meeting people. This is um I started a scuba club called Secret Society of the Frog. And and in doing that, just kept meeting people and through the camera, basically, I would say, hey, I got some great shots of you, give me your email address. And at the same time, I would tell them about our scuba club um and just kind of build membership that way. Uh I did start, I I think my very first camera with a housing was um one of those thin stony point and chutes that had the sliding front. I can't remember the model number, but it took really good shots. It had a like a lens or something tiny in there. Right. Uh and it just had a little, a little uh compression housing, and it was super simple to use and it took great shots. The the only thing it wouldn't do is it had that delay that that's really what frustrated me was I wanted to get that shot of something really quick. And unlike the DSLR that we have now, where you can just pop a bunch of shots off and it's almost immediate, is immediate. Um, that Sony, that that's the thing that frustrated me. I said, you know, I want to do better. I want to I want to improve on this, and the competitive nature in me just to make myself better is is what pushed me to to go and and open the door to investing in a DLR and a and a good housing.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Yeah, I think it was a similar situation with Todd and myself. We uh had an SP350, is what we started with underwater, uh made by Olympus. It was that that lag you'd push and then you're like waiting half a second for it to actually take the photo. Right. So you're kind of like okay. So frustrating.

Todd 13:30

Yeah, shuttle legs are shuttle lag is a b, what can you say? But it's a it was a good place to start, and it got once you got some photos, it it just it just started the uh the desire, right, to get to improve and get better, and you knew you knew something was there and you could do it.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

And yeah, and I think the also the excitement of pairing it with with post-production, anything I didn't know Lightroom at the time. I was just kind of I don't remember the software I used at first, but just just kind of you know getting the the green or the yellow out of the shot because there wasn't a lot of light behind that camera, uh was fun. I was like, oh wow, okay, so that's kind of cool. Uh because I I work in computers, that's the did the nine to five job that pays for all this fun. So combining it with software afterwards to say, okay, listen, I can tweak this and kind of make it look exactly like I thought here in my eye or in my head, that was the next evolutionary step for me. That was that was a great part. I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Awesome. Yeah, there's uh something to be said about being able to combine your passions you know, of technology and photography and diving. And it's like you get the best of all of all worlds, you get to be creative, you get to be technical, and you just get to hang out in the water and do something fun.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yeah,

Henry's Breakthrough

SPEAKER_02 14:45

I think the biggest step for me where it all kind of started gelling, I got Alex Mustard's book that was entitled, I think, like the Encyclopedia of Underwater Photography. Um, and it really broke down everything that I was not understanding because it it did the camera side of things, all the the technical settings, the the F-stop and all the shutter speeds and what that's going to do underwater. Um, it talks about the focal length and everything like that, but really how to approach your subjects, how to get that shot, how to position it, how to do the advanced thinking before your dive, just like you would do with a dive master or an instructor, when you do your drive profile, you have to have a photography profile too, to say, okay, what am I looking for? What shots am I looking for? And how can I put myself in that position? So that book really opened me up to a lot of different ways to to do the photography, but I needed better equipment. So there uh I I talked to some friends at Reef Photo right here. It's great having them right in Pompano Beach area, and and stopped in and said, Hey, you know, here's my budget to start with. What can I get? And I'm shooting at the time, I think um the Nikon D7000, which is a great cropped lens uh camera. Um and and so they were talking about all these housings and everything, and I'm like, well, do I want you know the Ike lights that have the um um plasticky or or or yeah, the the clear housings, or do I want to get something metal and more robust that's a much more expensive uh housing? And I and I opted for the metal just because of the enclosure. And I'm kind of a bull in a China shop. If I drop something, it's I wanted to survive.

Todd 16:24

So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

And so which housing did you end up with Nauticam or I ended up with the Nauticam, yeah, the Nauticam D7000 at the time. That also fortunately, when I upgraded to the 7200, accepted that same camera. So that was fortunate because that's not always the case. Uh and then only about I think a year or two ago, I upgraded to the D500, still a cropped lens. I do like that lens. Uh, I think I talked to both of you about possibly upgrading to the full sensor or the yeah, the full size. Uh, possibly like what you shoot Dalton at 850. Um, and because of the glass that I had already invested in, it was it was a better decision for me to stay at the seven at the 500.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

I think

Crop Sensor Is Professional Too

SPEAKER_01 17:05

that's uh what a lot of people forget about is uh or don't think about. They hear full frame and they instantly think, well, that's what the pros shoot with, that's what I have to shoot with. Right. And and that's that's kind of true. Well, it's kind of true, that's what the pros shoot with, but as a professional photographer, I've shot with the D500 and the D850 and a D810 and a D5 all at the same time. You know, have out you know, shooting sports, I would have one hanging off one side, one hanging off the other side. I'd be using one with a 400 millimeter lens on it, and I'm switching between all of them. Right. Um so it really doesn't matter. You just have to realize what benefits you get from each one. Like for a crop sensor, if you're shooting macro stuff, that crop sensor is going to be a huge advantage. Huge help.

Todd 17:55

You know, and if you have a fisheye lens, the wide angle doesn't matter as much having, you know, like the it used to be well, if I have a standard wide angle lens and oh my gosh, uh, you know, I'm shooting at 14 millimeter and I think that's fine, but underwater in a crop sensor, it's not wide enough, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Right.

Todd 18:12

Well, with a fish eye and your crop sensor, you don't have to worry about it. You don't have to have a whole new camera. And so that's kind of the thing we had talked about uh when you're making that decision is that it's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Understand the dynamics of of a fish eye underwater and how it's not as blown as as bulbous as a fish eye is out of water.

Todd 18:33

Right, it actually brings it back into just because sea life and reef life, when the human eye looks at it, the distortion isn't perceived nearly as much as it is if you're taking a topside photo with the fish eye. So all that stuff combined, the and just for the fact in recent years, you know, compared to when we first got it start got started, the availability of different types of lenses, you know, however many fish eyes there are and ultra-wide angles, there's a lot more nowadays than there used to be. So back in the day, you kind of you there was like one lens to have, and you had it would make sense to have a full frame. Nowadays, those those issues are are gone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

And that was a real problem for me to decide in my head. I I I'd said those exact words. I'm, you know, I want to be a professional, I need to shoot a professional camera. But the the 500 is a professional camera, maybe semi-pro in some people's mind, but it really took a lot of talking to my friends, you guys, to to determine, hey, I'm gonna be fine with that. I don't have to reinvest in all my glass, and I will shoot just as good, if not better, pictures because you know, this is I'm comfortable with that view, that cropped view.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Yeah, exactly. And you know, just on the only people that will tell you that that is not a professional camera is someone who is not a professional. If you talk to any pro photographer, right, they'll tell you I'll tell you the same thing that any pro photographer worth their salt will will tell you. It doesn't matter what camera you hand me, I'm gonna take a good photo.

unknown 20:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Point shoot, it doesn't matter. It does it yeah, it just doesn't matter because I understand light and how things work.

unknown 20:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

But people that are gonna say, oh, well that D500, that's not you know, that's not a pro camera, that's someone who doesn't know any better. That's someone who who's still learning. You know, so very true. So yeah.

Todd 20:24

Once you got started uh with your Nottingham housing, did you first dive take it low somewhere locally? Did you do a short dive, or was it in preparation for a big trip you were about to take?

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Well, you know, that's a good question. I I bought it, no, I bought it in in anticipation of going to Indonesia. Um and that was like two years out because I knew I had it, I needed time. I needed time to get to know all the buttons and dialogs. I mean, the inside of that housing looks like a German clock maker made it. Right. You know, it's all the little things. So I was I was really kind of intimidated at first. And I watched a lot of YouTube videos on just the setup of that. You know, I made sure that my camera was set to go um, you know, not just in it, but to make sure it could take advantage of all the settings in an underwater setting. Um it there's there's several things on on all those DSLRs that need to be set different so that you know the the back uh focus is one. Because if you don't want it, you don't want, I don't want anyways to be able to pull the trigger to take a shot and have it refocus. I want to focus on something, stay level on my on my uh my buoyancy, and then just kind of follow that whatever I'm whatever I'm shooting and pop off the shot when I need it. You know, I don't want to have to to worry about it refocusing on the trigger. That's a big one right there.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Completely understand that.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Uh

Diving in South Florida

SPEAKER_02 21:44

but I think my first dive might have been Blue Herring Bridge, to be honest. It's just I wanted to take it out as soon as possible. I just that's the thing I love about living in this part of the country. You know, we've got you know Coral Cove and we've got the the the bass and stuff right up here that are all within maybe a fifteen to thirty. 30-minute drive away that it doesn't matter if it's pouring down rain, it doesn't matter if there's five to ten uh uh foot seas out in the ocean. I'm in these self-contained little beautiful places that I can just go and still get, you know, my love truly is macro. I love the big creatures and all that, but to to see the macros and the little things and to just, you know, follow them around is great.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

To be fair, Henry. Um I do remember one dive at Blue Heron you and I went to do after a hurricane came through. That's true. We didn't necessarily make it in because literally were you kidd well, we made it in, but we turned around and got right back out. You couldn't see, you could put your hand on the front of your port and and not see it.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

I couldn't see anything in the front of my mask that close. Yeah, I truly was. I can't know what hurricane that was, but it was two days after the hurricane, or one day after the hurricane left, we wanted to go out, and so we went to Blue Heron Bridge, and it was just a disaster. Oh

Blue Heron Bridge

SPEAKER_02 22:57

my god.

Todd 22:57

So it's a that's a good thing. Henry is our, I believe, our first official South Florida resident guest on podcast. Blue Heron Bridge is pretty nationally known, but just in case people don't know what Blue Heron Bridge is, can you explain to us what is it like? What why is it so famous? Blue Heron Bridge like diving Blue Heron.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Yeah, Blue Heron Bridge is really kind of a great resource for it. Most people just call it a shore dive, but it's part of a the national park system. It's Phil Foster State Park. Um it basically is a parking lot under a bridge that has water on both sides. Uh and it's in the middle of the intercoastal waterway. Yeah, in the middle of sorry, in the middle of an intercoastal waterway, and it's down close to kind of West Palm Beach, Riviera Beach area of Florida. Um, it just has a tremendous following. It's its own microcosm as far as scuba diving is concerned. On any particular day, it is it is very impacted by the tidal flows. So because it's right next to the inlet. Yeah, it's right next to the inlet of West Palm Beach, so the tides come in and out there, they're ripping. They're probably anywhere on the low side of maybe two to three knots up to five knots. And it can be a big tidal flow of anywhere from a foot to three feet. Um so when you're on the slack tide, okay, so everybody's checking, there's lots of websites out that you can actually go and check these. Um divers will just converge on this. And it doesn't matter the time of day. It can be six o'clock in the morning, uh, it can be six or seven at night. It does close at dusk, so you can't really do a night dive without special permission. Or if you have a boat or on a dive boat, they can take you there too. Um, but it's just a fantastic place. It has a snorkel trail, so it's good for snorkelers. Um, and there's good and bad with all dive sites. Like sometimes on weekends, there's a ton of the new divers and instructors there. So you have a lot of people finning kicked down, so it's getting all silty. Um, but on weekdays when I try to go during the day, um, it's just gorgeous because you've got gosh, I couldn't even imagine how how many how many acres do you think that is, Dalton? Maybe 30? Uh yeah, under one. I mean, it's a it's a lot of park um that you can go out and and even if you stuck your hand in the dirt, you're probably only gonna get to 15 to 17 feet in the deepest portions. Most of it's probably only under 10.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

20 is the deepest you'll you'll hit. Um, because I would do checkout dives there, and you have to do what to qualify as a dive, it has to be 20 feet for 20 minutes. Okay. Minimum. So you can you can shove your hand down to your watch in the sand and get to get to 20 feet.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

But they've got a lot of stuff there, Todd, that is, that is, you know, they've they've got shopping carts when they've got statues out there for local artists that have put some uh like three different types of sharks. They got a hammerhead and some other things. The snorkel trail has a whole bunch of artificial reefs that they've been constructed out of concrete, and it's designed to um, you know, make the fish come in and and make little homes for them. There's just so much to offer, all different kinds of swimmers, snorkelers, divers, whatever you want. But I think the best part is that it's such a rich nutrient environment that you have nudie branks. You've got the small stuff. You I mean, on on some days that I've been there, I've seen more than 30 octopus, and they're all, you know, inside little holes or inside shells or coming out of a bottle that was thrown out of a out of a boat or something. Um, just an amazing place, but truly like muck diving at its best at some times because they have frogfish. There's uh a whole family of seahorses. It really is tremendous. If you're if you're in a position to come uh and you want a backup dive, which in case your dive boat doesn't go out because of bad weather, come down here to South Florida because Blue Heron Bridge and some of the other local sites are also very good. Um, because you don't you can have bad weather and still go diving.

Todd 26:52

Yeah, it's the muck diving capital of North America, pretty much. There's so many great critters. If you're if you you're like Henry and you want to take pictures of critters, octopuses, blennies, and little coralheads, and frogfish are hard to find, but there you have a good chance of seeing one. Seahorses, like you said. This and it's a shore dive and it's right off a parking lot. So it's it's about as easy as it gets. You just have to time the time the uh tide. Uh, but it has some of the most amazing macro life anywhere that you can find, all in one small area. It's pretty much as good as it gets in North America here. And it just happens to be down the street from where Henry lives.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Yeah, and from a training aspect, if you're if you're you know new equipment or you have a new camera, you want to try something out, the fact that you're out there in kind of battling a current is really good if you're gonna be on a live aboard later or you're going on a nice long trip you've invested in and you want to get some good photos. Blue Heron Bridge is the perfect place to kind of test all that together so that you can get your your stuff together and make sure you get a good shot.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Yeah, and I mean it even has on the uh western side of the park there where you have the um cut through for the the boats and stuff to come through, you've got like a a little mini wall on the inside there. It's true where you get plenty of of lobsters and shrimp and and things like that, arrow arrow crabs. And I've seen like mantis shrimp there. Oh yeah. I mean I I've seen so many sharks, all kinds of

Jawfish Photo

SPEAKER_01 28:34

you know, some days you're looking at macro stuff.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

I know I particularly remember a story. I was looking and shooting a jawfish. I think I submitted that photo for this picture. You know, the jawfish is, you know, once every 30 days, usually on the full moon, it's gonna be aerating, the male is gonna be aerating its eggs. It's a great shot, and you're just sitting there camped out, waiting for the guy to have enough nerve to come up and and actually toss the ball of eggs. If you can get that shot, it'd be a winner. Yeah, that's it right there. Um, but I'm I'm sitting there trying to get this shot, and then I see or feel this shadow go over my head, and it was a it was a uh a devil ray. Just it, you know, it's the weirdest thing. Sometimes you'll get man uh manatees, sometimes you'll get I've even seen people show that there's manta rays there, but just had this big devil ray come over top of me, and it was incredible while I'm trying to shoot this wonderful little creature with uh trying to aerate as all his little babies.

Todd 29:27

Disclaimer here is uh if you guys are listening on the podcast, if you use the Overcasts podcast players, you'll be able to see this as chapter art. If not, if you happen to be using any other podcast players, just check your show notes. We'll have pictures for any of the photos we referenced uh of Henry's on here. You can check the show notes or head over to YouTube and it should be up there as well. So this was so this jawfish has uh well, it looks to be thousands, but we'll say hundreds of babies at it. Uh tell us, tell us about how uh you know jawfish, as they have their eggs and their Lambryos and what they do, the behavior, maybe not everyone has seen.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

This is a big banded jawfish. So the size of this guy is probably his head's maybe the size of a golf ball, and his body's maybe the size of three or four inches below that. I've never, I don't think I've seen them outside of the, they stay in little holes. They they make these little abodes, and and you see them a lot of times when there's no, when they don't have the babies, they are digging down in and they come up and they spit the the uh sediment out as they're trying to clear the home for whenever the babies arrive. And they're the funniest little things because they're full of uh personality. Um, a lot of times they'll swivel and and the and their heads will just kind of follow you wherever you go. They're like a tracking device. So wherever you happen to be, and and they're they're almost the perfect picture taker because they kind of want to engage with you. So if you're really patient, and and one of the things I learned from Alex uh Mustard's book was the fact that you know fish are very repetitive. Everything marine is very repetitive. If you miss that one shot, just be patient, hang around. Um, and it'll probably happen again. Um, I think that's one of the frustrating things when you dive with us with an underwater photographer, um you you spend a lot of time sitting in one place when when people want to move around and see stuff, when we're wanting to camp out and just what is that? I want to see it again, you know?

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yeah, I mean that's one of the things that I've I've told a lot of people that don't dive or new divers. I'm like, yeah, I can drop in on a coral head and I can spend a whole 45 minute or hour dive just on that coral head. Right. I mean, I I I won't go anywhere else. And they're like, how why are you spending so much? You were there when we left. What are you looking at? I'm like, I'm looking at blennies or jawfish or arrow crabs or paraclemines shrimp. Try to say that three times real fast.

Todd 31:56

I can't say that one time fast, what says three?

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Right. Um, but there's so much to see if you just take your time and look. Right. And then again, it's also beautiful in color.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

Talking about blue hair and bridge, there's just there's just so much to see, and I'm so fortunate. We're also fortunate. Seahorses. Yeah, seahorses. I don't try to spend too much time on them because I know that that the light bothers them at some time. So I just take a few shots here and there and then come back. There are quite a few spots, and the dive community is is very secretive but very supportive in that. We don't really want to give up the the spots unless we know who you are, we know what what you're capable of. So there's special Facebook groups, there's all sorts of fun uh ways to communicate that. Um a lot of times we'll be very secretive, especially with seahorses, because they unfortunately one of the bad parts about Blue Heron Bridge is the fact that you do have poachers coming for you know various regions, calling research, whatever it is, and they come and they steal a lot of the aquatic life that is beautiful there, and it's it's sad.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Henry, didn't they have a big thing about that a couple of years ago? Yeah. Even more recently there was something news.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

It it's only been about a year, I think, year and a half. And Jim, Jim Abernathy, one of the local guys that does a dive boat and does a lot of research, um, they had a uh, I think it was the University of Texas or or Arlington or something, aquatic um research and aquarium, had sent a big truck with about four divers, and they were just going in there and pulling everything out uh over like a six-day period. And so we all, all the dive community got up in arms and we actually got legislation to to make it a preserv a preserved site. So unless they have like really good connections or they get a very expensive written notice that they can do that, that you know, they're basically that's been stopped and it's nice. But there's still a lot of people that come at night and just take stuff and they're not related to anybody and it's sad.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Yeah, it's that's unfortunate. It's it's one of the big things, uh, another thing we always try to push. Um not just on the podcast, but even when we're out on dive boats, you know, just don't take anything but don't take anything but chuh. Don't take anything but pictures. I can't talk today. So don't take anything but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles.

Todd 34:20

True. It is Thursday Thursday, don't you drink it early?

SPEAKER_01 34:25

I didn't tell you guys what was in my uh little magic cup today.

Todd 34:28

Okay.

Florida Keys

Todd 34:30

So Blue Heron Bridge is suit is uh very famous in South Florida. Uh I know the next thing that comes to mind for me is the Florida Keys. Have you been have you uh dove the keys quite a bit?

SPEAKER_02 34:43

Yeah, as a dive master, I think that's I mean, my my dive total, I don't know. I I probably have somewhere over 2,2500 dives, but a lot of those are in the Florida Keys. Um my my instructor had a a friend that owned the Jules Verne Undersea Park, and we did a lot of our, you know, a lot of our training there. So just about every weekend I was in the Keys with Richard. And and if those of you who don't know the Jules Verne Undersea Park, it's basically the end of the canal and it's got about visibility about that far. Um and the water's cold. Yeah, the water's very cold. It's where the underwater sea hotel is. Um but I did a lot of my tech training there too, because I went out and got um I an IANDT training uh technical too for like a couple 300 foot dives, and then I quit because it's too expensive, uh, too much gear, and there's not enough people doing it that I just stopped.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

So and all your sea life is really you know, between 40 and if you want to see beautiful blue water or or some cool wrecks, I will say that the wrecks were cool, but it it really my focus was um and I, you know, the cold water diving too.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

My my focus is warm water diving, Caribbean diving. Yeah. I love the keys though. The keys is actually where I discovered nudie ranks for the first time because the water's so much warmer. And I think it was the city of Washington that I was on a dive, and I I saw this little fluttering, like looked like a piece of ribbon with you know, with things sticking out of it. And I went up top to to surface on the surface interval, and I said, What was that thing? And I asked one of the dive masters on the boat, and she was like, Well, that's a nudie brank. It's uh Grand Florida or something she called it. I couldn't remember what it was, but I was like, What is that stuff? And she goes, Well, it breathes out its butt. I'm like, Really? Because yeah, that's nudie brank. Naked gill is, I think it's Greek, right? So it's it's they breathe out their their butt and then they've got the rhizosomes or rhizopheres or whatever they got to taste the water in front of them, whether it's friend or foe.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Well,

Orange Nudibranch Photo

SPEAKER_01 36:40

I know you've got a really good uh nudibrank shot that you sent over to us to show off today.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

They're they are totally my passion. I I could I could take pictures of Nudibranks every day, all day. Um because there's just so many of them. Yeah, this was this was in um the Komodo Sea in Indonesia um in a probably I want to say about maybe ten or fifteen foot of water, a lot of surge, and this guy was just you know munching on you know some of the green life around it. He came up over this um um I think that was a shell. No, it may have been a um a mollusk or something. Yeah, C fan. And just he got in several positions that were really cool, and the colors on him were so amazing. The detail you captured is stunning. And and this I think was with my uh 105. I I didn't hadn't purchased the 60 millimeter lens yet, so I was shooting the 105 uh macro on the crop lens, which so it gives me like 126 or something.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

But really closer to 150, I think.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Yeah, 150. The bad part is that the the the focal length is, I mean, the the depth of field is such a sliver that you really only get the front. Uh but the I loved the color, the little polka dots. It was so 70s, and the color scheme on them, and then those those rhizosomes, um, I didn't realize they had little layers so that more that the surface area of them is is quadrupled in essence to get more water past them.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Yeah, I mean, every time that I've seen something like this, um it's a lot of times you don't get the the detail of the rhizosomes. Uh you can actually see that they're individual little p pieces on there. Right. You just a lot of times you just see it as one little thing sticking out of the top. Yeah. But on on this image, you know, it's it it's uh just great detail, and you can see the individual um layers. It's fantastic.

Todd 38:43

Just tons of great detail on the rhinophores and on his body, just all the white spots, you know, circle or spots all throughout the state.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

That's it. Rhinophores.

Todd 38:50

Thanks, Todd. Couldn't come up with the word.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Todd Todd knows what it is today.

Todd 38:55

Yeah, they spent enough time taking pictures of nudies, rhino rhinophores. The killer ski goes all the way up the brachial plumes or something like that. Oh, cool. Nice. Yeah, there's still so much delivery. This is just an amazing shot. Uh again, uh, have a look in our show notes. It's just a a beautiful uh animal taken in a beautiful manner. So this is definitely uh uh a wonderful shot, Henry. Great job.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Thanks. For sure. Um and this is with the D7000.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Um I think at the time that was probably the 7200 on a with a 105 uh macro lens. Yes, very nice. And not you know, and the port. Everything, everything goes with everything. So it's not new lens, new port. New port, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Yeah, how it goes. Usually new camera, new lens, new port, new.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

It's been a great learning curve though. I I have not, you know, it it's very frustrating at times. I still consider myself just a newbie amateur, but I I get good shots. Um, I I take a lot to heart of what um a lot that I've read and I've seen a lot of pictures is you know, that picture in particular, I I literally was, you know, as low as I could go, because I I I never I I see too many people take pictures from the top down. Oh, there's another top of a seahorse, there's another fish butt. You know, whatever it may be. You really need to take time and find out what what your angle is, and you've you've got to be below that subject to get the picture that you want. And I wanted to see those antlers. I'm calling them antlers because I can't get the board again.

Todd 40:32

But it's not a marine biologist here. Right?

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Sorry, sorry guys, I am not a marine biologist. You had a lot of them on the show, and now you're gonna get me.

Todd 40:40

That's right. Get your phone known as antlers for the rest of this. Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Exactly. So the yeah, I wanted to have the antlers above and and have some blackness behind them. And there's a couple shots I I don't know, I don't think I submitted, but there's a couple shots that actually shows the mouth feeding on on some of the food. And I didn't realize they even had a mouth that projected out, which was really cool. So it's and then you know, the whole community when I post it um on the nudie brank hunters and things like that, there's so many bio uh marine biologists out there, they tell you the genus and the phylum and everything, and they they get so specific. So it's it's such this great learning experience, and I love it as well. It's the it's the back end side of the photography.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Nice. Nice. You said that was in Komodo in Indonesia. Komodo. Um can't remember the beach.

Diving Indonesia

SPEAKER_01 41:30

How'd you like diving in Indonesia?

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Unbelievable. I was set to go back uh in November uh and and take my girlfriend with me this time, but unfortunately our flights just got canceled, and we we can't, you know, Singapore Airlines is not letting people uh fly from the States except for LAX, but we'll go back in 2021. Probably we're gonna do the same trip. Um, I love Indonesia. It's to me, there's so you really can tell. Now I've been out in the keys diving. I've been here in Florida diving for the last almost 30 years, and uh I've really seen a decline in in what's happening. And and I know that you know climate change is a big hot topic, but when you're a diver, you see it. You see it firsthand, it's devastating. Uh it's getting worse exponentially. Um unfortunately, Indonesia is one of those places that I'm almost scared to tell people to go to because we as humans like to just go and destroy. It's just kind of our MO. And I don't mean that as a bad thing, people, don't take it as a trigger, but it is something we do and we do it really well. So, but Indonesia is one of those places it's it's kind of going back to the you know the 70s and 80s in in Florida. Everything is so lush and beautiful, and the the water is so crystal clear. Again, it has trouble in some areas, but like Raja Ampot, which I've been, uh, you know, the Bandas Sea, uh Komodo National Forest, those places are just amazing. Uh the things you see there are just tremendous. And and I tried to take as much as I could. I just you know didn't have all the time and the money in the world to stay there.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Right? The life goals, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Right, exactly.

Key Largo Wrecks

Todd 43:10

So, yeah, so taking it back in the keys, Key Largo is known for being like one of the rec capitals because there's so many different rec dives there. Tell us a little bit about uh some of the more famous recks that or the ones that that you like that stood out, stand out for you while I uh uh pull up one here.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

There is not a bad wreck in the keys. Uh I've been on the you know the small ones that have been disintegrated, like I mentioned, the city of Washington before, uh the Benwood uh Spiegel Grove. Obviously, everybody knows the Spiegel Grove, the big uh um carrier assistance one. Uh that's just fantastic. But one of my favorites is the Duane, the USS Duane, which is a Coast Guard cutter. And it actually has a sister ship ship, the USS Bib. Uh the Bib isn't so good. It's still awesome, but it's it lays on its side, so it's all its superstructure is kind of deeper for recreational divers. But the Duane is fantastic. It sits upright. It's got the big crow's nest coming up. And it's a very identical and an identifiable structure, as Dalton mentioned, as you can see here.

Turle Wreck Photo (Duane)

SPEAKER_02 44:11

And I've done the Duane a lot, and I've never had an experience like I did with this when then when I had this guy come and visit me for over 30 minutes. He followed me around and was in love with his his um his picture, his own image in the dome port.

Todd 44:28

So we're looking at a picture that Henry took uh while diving the Dwayne. Is that right, Henry? That is correct. Is this uh the so he was diving on the USS Dwayne in in the Keys, and this cool turtle just came to hang out with him and do the dive with him, and he captured this uh great shot. Yeah. So just could be a little bit of a short time. He followed me around.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

It's a Hawksbill turtle, and he's just beautiful. And he stayed up, he was eating a sponge that was growing off of the crow's nest there. And I thought, oh, look, I'll go over and check him out. And when I did, he came over to me and just started swimming around me and looking at himself and his own image in my dome port. And I was just able to capture some really cool shots. And this is kind of early on in me owning the camera. I was still, you know, struggling. You can see that my sunburst up there is not the best, but I I was doing a good job.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

But you gotta get in there.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

Yeah. So it it was really a fantastic dive. And I think he was still there when I went up on the surface interval and came back down. I still got a couple more shots of him there, too.

Todd 45:33

He's still waiting for you. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

He was hanging out. And that's this thing is you see a lot of stuff on the in the the the dives in the keys, like my favorite of all wrecks in the keys is the is the eagle. And that's down towards the middle keys, down now you're near Tavanier. Um, and it and it's only because so many people go to Key Largo uh and Isla Marata that they do all those wrecks like the Spiegel Grove and the Duane and the Bib there. Um you know, maybe a lot of locals and people who know the dive scene will head a little further south to Tavanier, go out and do the Eagle and some of the other ones because they're just you know, it's a calmer, a calmer dive that's not as crowded as the Spiegel, because you get out on the Spiegel and you've got 10 other dive boats all parked there. And and so fortunately now with a lot of the scheduling software, um they're they're trying to get better with what time boats go out there. So there's really only one or two boats on the Spiegel Grove and some of the other ones. So it's getting better, and we're trying to manage that, which I I like to see the management of the of the masses going to see the uh the wrecks. And I'll give a shout out to my friends Gary and Brenda at uh Conch Republic down in Tavanier. He owns Scuba Osity software that does the scheduling for a lot of those dive sites. And it's because of that that they're able to make sure that it's not too crowded and you don't go there with 10 and 20 boats on one site. So, you know, that's it's a big deal to have that. I think the management of that to make sure that the the resources stay pristine is important as we move forward. You know, especially for us photographers who want to get in there as the Spiegel Grove. I mean, will we see the Spiegel Grove disintegrate in our lifetime? I I don't know. It seems like it's it's starting to decline. So we've got to we've got to save these resources while we can.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Might be picked up and moved with a couple of hurricanes. That's true, yeah. We'll see what happens.

Diving Tiger Beach

SPEAKER_01 47:26

And uh you dove the uh you j dove with Abernathy recently, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 47:31

I did. We did his shark dive in Tiger Beach. That was that was fun. I mean that was uh it's right out of here in Riviera Beach. Um the only bad part of the whole experience was the fact that his uh air conditioner went down on the very first day. So there was like I think 15 of us on that boat and it was hot, but uh beautiful. Yeah, the the the crossing both directions was calm, and uh we saw a lot of uh lemon sharks and tiger sharks. So it was my first experience kind of doing the the tiger beach scene. I definitely want to go back and do that. That was you know, I don't want to make that a once-in-a-lifetime. I'm gonna do that many times just because those those creatures are so beautiful. They're they're color patterns. We really are we do get some here when when we dive, you know, on the bells um the Bonaire, which is a wreck here in South Florida off of Jupiter Coast. Um it's where a lot of the the shark feeders will go. Um and and we do get a lot of the the reefies, we do get a lot of lemons, but um occasionally we'll get some really nice tigers too.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

So I I just love well there's uh uh lemon aggregation that comes down through Florida in February, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Yeah, and we're now just getting into the grouper aggregation, which is really the one of the coolest things about South Florida. If you've if you've never been down to South or never seen a fish the size of a VW bug, come down to South Florida and you'll see about a hundred of them all together in front of a boat staring at you. And they yeah, and they and they'll grunt, they'll grunt at you. They they clap their their um gills and it's just sounds like a uh the timpany drum of a symphony. And it is it it gets you right here because that you know if you're getting too close, they'll they'll they'll thump at you, and it's fantastic. And uh I definitely love I love shooting the uh the Goliath groupers in the aggregation because they're they're playful too. You know, they got like the I think one of the the static shots I have from for the headshot for me is with one of the the local celebrity uh Goliaths, a small one, his name is Walter. Uh he he's friendly, he'll come right up to you, he'll nuzzle you. You know, he's he's not scared at all. So, but um, you know, they they're a they're a character. They're definitely worth coming down and doing several dives if you're if you're gonna come down and support our economy.

Picture of Henry and 'Walter' the grouper

SPEAKER_02 49:47

Yep, there's a picture of Henry and Walter. Henry Selfie. Walter Selfie. That's right. He's cool. And he's he's probably only like maybe a hundred and maybe close to 200 pounds. He's he's not he's nowhere nearer the size of the really big ones.

Florida Black Water Diving

Todd 50:01

The other thing that's been popular recently in South Florida that used to only be a big deal in Hawaii is black water diving.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Yes. It's about to get to that.

Todd 50:10

Right. So so tell us tell us a little bit about what where people go in in South Florida who who does blackwater diving and tell us what you're doing. Just tell us about blackwater diving in general.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

Well, to be honest, I've only been in one uh there's one company I really like, Pura Vita Divers out of Riviera Beach. Um, they do a great blackwater operation. And to be honest, you can beep this out, Todd, but I was scared shitless. The first time I went, I was gonna go do a black dive. Blackwater dive. Um I would be too. You know, because it's a different matter altogether when you kind of see in the blue ocean, you know what's down there, you know, you can kind of see vaguely what's there. But if you're in, you know, two, three hundred feet of water and it's completely pitch black, and the only thing, you know, for those of you that don't know, Blackwater dives, they take you out at night uh well after the nautical and the civil light is is done, and and they throw out a buoy with a big either strobe light or a light on the bottom of it that is in about maybe 30 foot of water. So it's just hanging there. And that's kind of your reference point. And the the whole thing is you can stay in that 30-foot ball uh 30-foot column of water looking for, and uh and a lot of times it these it's juvenile fish that you're looking for, these little juveniles. Um, it could be swordfish, it could be crabs, it could be squid, it could be lots of different things. Um I've even had people I've been waiting to see is the lionfish, the little lionfish larvae are supposedly very beautiful. Um and you get a lot of stuff that come up from the deeper water. Right, deeper water. Um and it's just a phenomenal experience once you get over my original apprehension was everything's pitch black. I mean, I've done cave diving, and and that's pitch black, but this is kind of a pitch black that just goes on and on and on. So you really focus in on that that reference light that's hanging on that buoy.

Todd 51:59

Um so they drop you, you're you're not tethered or anything, they just drop you on the back of the cloud.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

They drop you like a normal dive and you you drift dive. Drift diving's really big in South Florida. Um, we're we're going always typically with the the um oh I can't think of that current y thing off the coast. See, again, the blonde takes over for a little bit. Um but yeah, we're we're just drifting with the current, and it and it could be a slow current of only two to three knots or it could be higher. But you're you may drift in that in that hour-long dive, you may drift maybe eight miles. So they'll they'll start off by by dry, you know, driving the boat eight miles to the south so that when the when the north current is is kicking you, you're drifting right back to basically where you started. And the boat's always with you. You're drifting with the boat. Um, and it really challenges you on a lot of levels because A, like I mentioned before, your situational awareness, you need to know in the case of an emergency, you know, how can I either, you know, raise myself or or come up if I need to? Where's my dump valves if I need to go lower? Um, what's my buoyancy? How am I doing on my trim and everything? But also, you know, on your housing, you know, how do I know where everything is if I need to change, you know, everything? So you you really can't see anything. Um so that was a challenge in itself, and and it just being you know, a blackwater dive, you have to have a lot of light so you can see whatever's in front of you in order to get your camera to focus on whatever it is. Because a lot of these things are I, you know, maybe the size of a grain of salt.

Black Water Squid Photo

SPEAKER_02 53:30

This one, this particular squid was probably if it was an inch, I'd be amazed. It was probably maybe a half inch to three quarters of an inch long and completely translucent, right? And it's just beautiful. And now it didn't light up like that. That's actually my flash um reflecting off of the colors, but it's just it almost looks like a toy, like a dog would carry, right? It's just amazing.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Yeah, I was saying I've seen some of your Blackwater stuff, and uh I mean it's really cool. There's so many things that you have to think about when you're talking about a blackwater dive because there is no point of reference. I mean, people talk about you know diving in blue water where you know you really have no reference but up, right? Because you can see you can see daylight. But at night, you're taking away that daylight. So you know, you think about your normal night dive, you know, people can shine you shine your light on the reef and you're looking at cool stuff. But on a blackwater dive, it doesn't matter where you shine your light, you're not seeing anything. And it's a total challenge. Except for whatever's in front of you.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

It's a total challenge because you you could look and you're focused as a photographer. You all know you've you've squirreled and gone in different directions just to find whatever it is you're trying to track. And the next thing I do, I look up and I'm like, where's that ball? And I may be at 60 feet instead of 30 feet, or I may be at 10 feet instead of 30 feet. So it challenges all aspects of your dive training.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

And and you gotta pay attention to your your depth is absolutely eye on your on your dive. Yeah, everything.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

Um, so yeah, it it's important to have a lot of light so that you can illuminate the whole, the whole, you know, the area that you're in, because these things are so small, and a lot of times they're just pulsing in front of you, or they're they don't stop like some of the fish on the reef will. These things are constantly in motion, and you're, you know, I wish I had a picture of me out of the water doing how fast I have to move the camera sometimes just to follow them. It's crazy.

Todd 55:28

Yeah, I was just about to say, you know, the luxury you usually have when you're uh when you're shooting macro is you usually are close to, let's say, a sea floor or something, and shooting something that's usually pretty stationary. And that small sliver of focus that you have to get in macro is a challenge, but not so much because it's once you once you lock it in, you're you're pretty close and you can use your back button focus and then slowly move backwards and forwards. But now in Blackwater, like every it's a free-for-all, right? And so you just have to hope to catch focus and maybe have it in servo mode. I don't know. What did you do?

SPEAKER_02 56:01

How did you handle just back focus and and basically trying to stay with them in the column of water? Um, every you know, one of the early things I did is is I learned how to shoot manual. A lot of times I, you know, when I first started, it was, you know, programming the auto exposure, programming the ISO, whatever it may be. Uh, I think Dalton, you had actually uh worked with me on setting the range of my ISO so that you know I could let that fly free and work with whatever I was working with, but it would stay within a confined range of ISO settings. So that helped in a lot of ways too. Um but it is it is extremely difficult. I have yet to master it. It's still it is still on my my great list of just keep practicing and get better at it. You know, I see a lot of the shots that the the people come back with off of the boat, and I'm like, oh, I'd like to get the mini swordfish, and and I'd like to get, you know, they they have a lot of uh juvenile seahorse as well, which is just I would love to see fantastic. They they float, evidently you can they're floating on the sargassum, and and that's one thing I've never even seen. I I guess I'm not that shallow. I need to go up and see where the sargassum is floating uh in the in the column. I'm usually hovering down around maybe 20, 25 feet just to see what's down there.

Todd 57:18

Now you're using scientific terms like sargassum? Well, isn't that what the I thought that was something that gathers? And we're doing antlers and that one I know.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

I thought we got I thought that's what happens when you get really happy. Sorry, on the floaty seaweed stuff.

Todd 57:33

There you go. Thank you. Gotta keep it consistent on this podcast. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

But I can't, you know, can't say highly enough about black water diving. I I just there needs to be more time in the day and in the year just to be able to do it.

Todd 57:47

Um can you do it year-round? I I would assume it's a good one. You can't.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

Water temperature obviously is gonna get really cold, but um I think one of the biggest things that scares people is just the fact that it's black, it's dark. You know? Night dive with nothing really to see, and you're just floating in black water. That that really uh unnerves people.

SPEAKER_01 58:08

And they don't you don't tether to the buoy or anything like that. No tethers.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

You're just swimming free, and your reference point is that big, large, shiny globe on the bottom of that buoy.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

Now, do they light the strobes on the bottom of the boat too? No, they don't.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

Basically, they want to give you a pristine um canvas with which to work. So, really, you have that reference point that's sitting. And and um a couple of times they do have some strobes going up the line so you can see the vertical aspect of the line. Um, but they they tell you beforehand you the the depth of the ball will be 30 feet, so make your reference point where you know where you are in that. And then your your job is, you know, and I've seen people kind of get really far away and then have to come back and um you know it's another challenge with your dive buddy because you're both kind of trying to stay together and you're really only seeing flashes at some point. Everybody has the glow stick on their on their tank, so you can see a little bit of that. But you know, some days the visibility's not great and and you can't even see that. You're waiting to see where the flash is and find them.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

So fair enough. Yeah, that just that that sounds like a lot of fun, and it sounds really intense.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

It it is, you know, because I some of the things that people don't realize, you're going out on the boat at night, you know, which a lot of people do for night dives, anyways, but you get out there and it's just black, and and one time in particular, um, we were sitting on the boat in in the between the in the surface interval, and the full moon came up on the surface. And I was just like, Nice, you know, it reminded me of um what's that Tom Hanks movie where he's on the um on the castaway. No, not castaway, it's the other one. Um Joe versus the Joe versus the volcano, yes, where the moon comes out, you know, and uh I was like, oh man, this is just like Joe versus the volcano. Uh it was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Still did combat.

SPEAKER_02 59:55

Right, and then we got back in the water, and it was weird because you could see then that moon also coming up in reference underwater. It's every experience I've had blackwater diving has been fantastic. So, you know, it's reminding me that they're they're kicking off a whole new season on Pira Vita. So I'm gonna sign up in the next couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:11

Now, now are they taking you out um like past the drop-off where you're in like 600 or a thousand feet of water?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

We are in or they total deep water there. It's at least 400 foot. It's uh it's a good 20 minute, it's it's 20 minutes out, and then they go south so that you can travel north with the current. Very cool.

Todd 1:00:29

Now you had mentioned earlier that you know you need a lot of light. So did you did you use your standard focus light, or did you have to do anything additional to your normal setup to when you were uh I set up both of my focus lights and I also had two solar lights that I would use for like night dives in general.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

I mounted them on there. So I had actually the focus lights on my camera weren't too bright. They're just meant to kind of focus little things. But the more light that you can pour at it, I know a lot of the the Blackwater divers who do it like all the time, they actually have um the video lights out there to just blast, you know, because it's really what you can see. Um and lately with with me getting a little bit older, my eyes are are kind of not as good as close up. So I've looked at getting you know the the bifocals um inside my mask because I can't I can't see through the camera as well when you're trying to quickly focus and everything. I was relying a lot on the camera itself and not my eye. So I need I need to.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

So you're so you're dumping a lot of light where when we do night dives on the reef, we'll use just like a single red focus light because we don't want to scare off anything. Exactly. And when we're doing black water, you're just like using all white light, as much of it as you can get, so you can see things.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

And the difference is when you're on the the reef, um you know, you want to be respectful of everybody else. Everybody's kind of congregated across the reef, and the water's typically so clear that you can you can see if there's a lot of light somewhere. For some reason with the Blackwater dives, that light just dissipates off so quickly, you know, that you could have a ton of light, and then somebody maybe 20 feet to the right of you could still have that light, and they're not going to interfere with your shot. You know, it it it's just it's just the way it works. I don't know. There, I'm sure some physics person out there or you know, light magician could tell me how that works, but um it is you can have a ton of light and not really disturb anybody else like you would on a reef. Now, do they not have blackwater diving where you guys are in in in California?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:38

You go blackwater diving during the day in California. Yeah.

Todd 1:02:42

It's not, you know, uh from what I've seen, it's not really a thing here yet. Um I I would imagine it could be, but just because the cur, you know, the conditions, it's cold, uh a lot bigger waves and stuff around here. Um I'm sure some people will I'm I'm sure there's some niches of people probably doing it, but it's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:03

I really I really love that the podcast you guys had that um the guy was talking about the church of the kelp garden that was so cool.

Isla Mujures Whale Sharks

Todd 1:03:12

So one of the things, dives that we actually, and it's not really a dive, but one of the trips we actually took all together was and went underwater was to go look at whale sharks in Isla Muheres and just a couple years ago. Right around this time he was.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

I was always getting inside my head. That's what happens when the three of us get together. We're like we're all on the same page. Talk about a workout, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

I have never worked harder in any dive or any place than than we did on those few days in Islamujas.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

Yeah, it was you you definitely got to show off your uh your swimming skills.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

It's well, you know, it's it's all those fins. I blame it on the uh scuba pro jet fins that I have. They may be clunky and and and heavy, but man, you can kick the crap out of the water.

Todd 1:03:58

Actually, Henry, why don't you kind of walk people through what the procedure is like uh and how you go out diving and snorkeling? Because it's uh rather unique.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:07

Yeah, it's unique. I mean, Istawa Harris is kind of it's a small island off of the peninsula in Mexico. Um it has a lot of resorts, it's a cool little town. I don't know that we got to spend as much time seeing the town as we did going diving, but they they the government really regulates how the the diving for the whale sharks goes. You can't scuba dive. Um, it is only snorkeling, and you can only have, I think it was two people in the water at any one time. Uh you know, the caveat to that is is they I don't know that they regulate how many boats can actually be out there at one time. So you'll probably have two 30 boats with two people in each, which is 60 people in the water. And in some cases it's sad. In others, I know on some days we saw a lot of whale sharks, which was wonderful because then the boats were spir sp were sporadic and spaced out. Um but on other days when it wasn't, you know, they didn't find the big mass of whale sharks or they were deep or something, it was um, you know, a lot of boats around a couple of sharks. So that you know, we were we were trying to be very conscious to not overwhelm them. I know, you know, you say not to touch uh any of the sea life, but it doesn't mean they can't touch you. And I know that one of the one of the things that happened that that was funny that I was sitting in there trying to get a shot and I got dropped perfect. The boats are really good. They'll run up and they'll do a quick turn and kind of put you right in front of a path of this without disturbing or st or making them change the path of the whale shark. So it's it's a big choreography dance that they do with these boats, and they're very respectful to you know, not hit other boats and and not get too close to these whale sharks. But they'll drop you in and then they'll come in, and and then it's you've got to kick like the devil to stay up with this massive beast that is, you know, in some cases 30, 35 foot long, uh, and just the most beautiful thing. You want to try to position yourself in front of them so you can get that that awe-inspiring mouth shot and everything, and and maybe get some reflection off of the surface because you know there's there's tons of things you can do with that. But I I remember one time I I got a uh I was trying to reposition myself and the whale shark did not move, so he basically ran into me. And I thought, and I don't know, tell me if I'm wrong, guys, I thought he actually nudged me and I almost flew out of the water when that happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

So uh that happened to I think that happened to me, you and Todd at some point. Body checked because body checked. When when you get body it's funny, you get body checked by these things and they're so massive, and I'm a big dude, but I get I get body checked by this, and I feel like I'm rolling down the side of an airplane or something. It's deceiving how you're tumbling, you're tumbling in the water with very little control, and and kind of like rolling down the side of this thing. And I it it's I thought they would have been more fragile, right? Didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

You know, when when he hit me the first time, I'm like, damn, that's like a bust. Yeah.

Todd 1:07:07

Now I on the flip side, I you know, I we have no business, like we should all get knocked out cold if we got hit by one of the their fins. But they they it's it's funny, they seem to have a lot more spatial awareness than we do when we're underwater and tend to actually ensure that they don't completely kill you what if they even if they nudge you. It's not usually with their full force. It's a lot for us, but like, man, if it I I can't even think what would happen if we just got whacked their tail.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

There were times where you know it like Henry said, you're getting in front right in front of it, trying to get this big, nice, awesome wide-angle shot, and then they come right next to you and they're swimming their tail. Like that's how they move. They're swimming, but when their tail gets close to you, it's like they just easily avoid you. Yeah, they're like, I could smack the heck out of you right now, but I'm not gonna. Yeah, exactly. And they when you're looking at them from the boat, even moving through the water, you're like, Yeah, they're not moving that fast. And then you get in the water and you're like, holy crap, are they moving?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:14

Yeah, they're deceiving how big they are and how big how fast they're gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:17

It's because they're so big, right? It's how big.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:19

Overall, I mean, that trip was really a highlight of of all the place. I mean, live aboards that I've been on and and staying at resorts. I mean, that the hotel we were at was really nice, but you know, the dive operation, they couldn't have been nicer. You know, driving the golf cart, maybe a little bit inebriated, that was fun. You know. Now that was the highlight.

Todd 1:08:40

Yeah, uh on some swings, some right swings.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:43

I I think probably I mean, that's definitely one of the the highlight trips of of all the ones I've been on as well. But I think a lot of that has to do doing something that we all enjoy, but doing it together. Yes, it's it definitely has to do with the company you keep. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:03

And and one of the things I realized that I wish I'd known ahead of time, and I'll tell this for everybody out there now it's a very, very, very long boat ride to go out and a very, very long boat ride to come back. And sometimes it's a little choppy. So make sure you pee before you go and pee before you get back in the boat because it's a long trip back. And make sure you don't have to do nothing. Exactly. Oh my god, that trip was so long, uh, but it was fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:31

Now, when we came back though, and we stopped by the beach on that one side, some of the best ceviche I have I've had in a while. They uh they prepare fresh ceviche on the boat for us, and took one of the boat cushions and put it in the water so it float, and then put the cevici and chips on top of that float. So we're just floating in the water, eating and drinking and having a good time.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:01

Overall, fantastic trip with fantastic people.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

Absolutely. So highly recommend it. I think we need to do it again next uh Yeah, as soon as we can get allowed out of the house, we should do that.

Todd 1:10:14

Absolutely, right, absolutely. For sure. Well, hey guys, I think uh that's a good place to stop uh part one of our interview. But before we let you go, Henry, we're gonna start a new segment here

THE DIVE BRIEF

Todd 1:10:26

that I've titled the dive brief. And we're gonna ask you some uh five rapid fire questions, and we just want some quick responses, whatever comes to mind. Think you're shambling, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:38

And yeah, exactly. That's why you're that's why you're a that's exactly right.

Todd 1:10:44

All right, so let's see how this goes. Henry, your favorite dive snack is dive snack?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:50

Ooh, uh pineapple. Pineapple between dives, fantastic. Gets rid of the salt and uh it's chilled.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:57

All right, okay, Henry, what is your favorite piece of dive gear?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:02

Uh it's gotta be my just the housing. I I would never really want to go anywhere without it. The the camera and the housing.

Todd 1:11:07

If you could choose somewhere to dive that you haven't been yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:10

I think I would like to go where you guys went, which the continental plates. I would like to experience that in Iceland, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:17

Iceland.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:18

A close a close second would be Hawaii, because I know that's very touristy, but you know, the mantis and the turtles are supposed to be really nice as well. Yeah. Big island.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:26

All right. Uh this one, this one should be a good one for you. Uh what is your favorite post-dive beverage?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:33

You know, a good IPA is is nothing could go wrong with that. It it's, you know. Right on. It's in a can, I can bring it. I don't have to worry about glass on the deck, and um, you know, you just keep it on ice in a bag and then you you pop it right after because the the salt in your mouth gets washed out just as easily. So what is your favorite sea animal? Oh, that's easily uh either manatee or the Goliath groupers because of their personality.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:58

All right, awesome. And we're gonna wrap it up with what is uh the most frustrating thing about diving for you? Change it up.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:08

People without respect for the ocean and without respect for the dive boat in general. I mean rude divers, really. Okay. That's the the biggest drawback I can get. Don't be a dive whole kid for ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:21

Exactly. I I like that. I think I'm gonna use that as a as a new descriptor now.

Todd 1:12:27

Oh don't be an old kid. I think that should be the name of today's episode. Well, having you survived the very first dive brief, good job. Thank you so much for uh we got so many more things to talk about. We'll definitely have to have you back when you're free next. Um, a great chat. We really appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:46

Thanks, guys, pretty much. Thank you.

Wrap Up

Todd 1:12:48

So before we go, Henry, why don't you tell people where they can find more of your work?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:51

Well, I'm on Facebook and Twitter, both as Hank's Place. That's H A N X P-L-A-C-E. Um and I'm also got uh Photo Namaste on Facebook that has a lot of collections of some of the shots I've done over the years. Um check those out. Thanks.

Todd 1:13:06

Well, thanks for joining us, Henry. Have a great weekend and a happy holiday, and hopefully we get to do another follow up episode of my video. I love forge. Thanks, guys. See you bye. Bye guys.