Ask a Dude: Episode 3, Part 2

This is a continuation of a special episode where Nick and Emmy discuss the process behind creating Nick's list of what it is to be a real man, receiving the list, and his reluctance or hesitation to publish the list publicly. 

Music by Pixabay  

www.sacred-truths.com

Transcript

Ask a Dude: Episode 3, Part 2

Hello. And, welcome to part 2 of a special episode of  'Ask a Dude'.  This is a continuation of a conversation where Nick and I discuss the process of making his list of what is a real man, sharing the list, receiving the list, and his reluctance to share the list publicly. This is Sacred Truths with Emmy Graham. [music]

Nick:  I think, I remember now, I did run into this one other time, and I think we've talked about it since when it was the first or second episode early on. Heather was asking me some questions of what do men say about women? 

Emmy:  Mmm...about women? 

Nick: Yeah, we were describing a scenario where men on their own, how do they talk about their encounters with women? What do they say? 

Emmy:  Their sexual encounters. 

Nick:  Yeah, their sexual encounters. Yeah. What do they do? And I hit a wall. Heather kept asking, I wasn't purposely being evasive, I just was kind of malfunctioning trying to talk about it.

Emmy: Because it was so awful. 

Nick:  It was so awful. And then, mercifully, you came to the rescue and you had your own experiences where you'd been eavesdropping or overhearing these conversations, not eavesdropping, just overhearing these things. And so we got some good examples that were plenty awful. [laughter] 

Emmy:  Yes. 

Nick: And we were able to get through the material and make the point and talk about it and make the point well. 

Emmy: Well, that is really interesting, Nick, because you've done so much work on shadow. In fact, you're writing a book on shadow work. And it's one thing to, I suppose, address your own shadow on a personal level. It's another thing to actually name it publicly. And I'm wondering how, I don't know, how does it feel to say your list to a man or a group of men privately? Or does that change any of it? Like, you shared it with us, the three of us, and you, I believe you said it was really powerful to do so, and that actually felt liberating and helpful. I wonder how it would feel to share it with a group of men or another man? 

Nick:  Yeah, that's a good point. And I think that's part of what made it a little startling when I reviewed it where I hit such a wall about actually publishing it. Was that the actual experience when we did it, you know, when we actually did the recording was really powerful. And all those things were still activated in terms of: ‘I shouldn't be doing this.’ ‘This is too horrible to talk about.’ ‘This is the darkest thing I've ever shared my life.’ You know, a lot of things were happening while we were making that recording. A lot of alarm bells were going off in my head, you know. But in the end, as it unfolded, the relief of encountering the truth and feeling through that, and then hearing your reactions and talking about it, reflecting a little bit together around it all. It was a great experience sharing it. And if I imagine sharing this with another man or a group of men or… I don't have any, nothing comes up for me. If I think about that, like doing something, like some podcast thing with a group of men and talking this over. 

Emmy: No alarm bells, you mean? 

Nick: Not the normal ones, but not this - just some other really intense feeling of dread, of kind of like just doom. That doesn't come up. When I imagine it, nothing extraordinary comes up when I think about sharing this with other men. You know, it wouldn't be, I wouldn't walk into a bar, and say, “Hey there fella, I got something I got to get off my chest.” (laughter) Here you go. I'll buy you a round and I'll just share a few things, you know. Or some kind of weird, you know, grab someone, just some person on the street and grab him by the lapels and go, "Ahh, did you know?" You know, some kind of weirdness. Yeah, someone I would trust, someone I knew, but it wouldn't be a thing. Yeah, nothing comes up. 

Emmy: Would it be helpful to get someone you trusted just to get his feedback to say, "Yes, you should publish this," or "Dude, don't publish this ever." - just to get his feedback on if you should publish it or not? 

Nick: Ooo...That's a great idea. 

Emmy: Maybe that would help with this process. 

Nick:  That's a great idea. And I know who too, I know who to do that with. There's someone I've had conversations about this kind of thing with a variety of people and I have someone in mind who  I would trust their opinion about it. And I think it would get it out of the space, whatever it is echoing around in my head, even though, you know, we've talked and I trust you and I trust everybody. Everyone involved, I completely trust. Maybe it would just help to talk about it with another man, sharing, just see, to have some kind of conversation about it. 

Emmy: Yeah, it might really help to get to the truth behind whatever this feeling is. 

Nick: Yeah. 

Emmy: Right, because a man can so relate, whereas we're responding to it…  Right… From our perspective, from our experience.

Nick:  Yeah, that's a great idea. And I wonder about when I did hit that wall the other time. If- 

Emmy: You mean with Heather? 

Nick: Yeah. 

Emmy:  Okay. 

Nick: Speaking in specific terms about, I wonder if I could revisit that. I think we talked about possibly revisiting that.

Emmy:  Yeah. 

 Nick:  And maybe there's something I can do around thinking about that somehow or maybe navigating this challenge will free up something around that topic. Cause it feels like the whole point is to shine some light where maybe it has never been or very rarely been shown, to talk about things that are incredibly heavy taboo topics that are thriving in the shadow.

Emmy:   Right. And as I had said before, after hearing your list, I suddenly understand why men talk about women the way they do, when they talk about sexual exploits, it makes sense now. And there's this one upping constantly: Am I in? Am I in? Am I okay? because I gotta be in the group, I gotta be in the tribe. It makes so much sense to me now. Whereas when we did that podcast, I had some sense of what they said, but I didn't really understand why, what is operating in them? I didn't really understand that. Now I understand better what's actually operating in them, how much is at stake for them. I get it. 

Nick:  Right, right, of course. Because those interactions that you were overhearing, those were the list being acted out. 

Emmy: Exactly. 

Nick:  And right, that's an example of where this behavior is mystifying or very curious without an understanding of the why. It's just like, what are they doing? 

Emmy:  Right, and it's so harmful. Why would anyone come from that? 

Nick: Yeah. 

Emmy:  What is driving that? 

Nick: Yeah, right. So this list is this illuminating piece to the whole topic.

Emmy: For me it certainly was. 

Nick: Yeah, right. 

Emmy: And again, I'm not pressuring you, I'm just giving feedback.

Nick: Yeah. 

Emmy: And it's a dark list. It's a really difficult list. I'm acknowledging that. As I think I said to you, my list felt more embarrassing maybe. I don't know, I'd have to think about that, but yours is, it's just ugly.

Nick: It is ugly. And that's the word, and I think that it's another theme that has come up. When I look at the world right now and just see the circumstances we're in and the challenges that we're facing and what I see as the extent of the misbehavior going on. I feel like we need a new plan and we need a new plan quite soon - as far as some type of significant paradigm shift, as far as what we're doing on this planet. It feels like this planet is telling us really clearly we need to do things differently, to survive. And I think that that list is driving us to destruction with the possibility of taking the whole planet with us. I mean, I don't know, but it's a legitimate threat, to the whole planet, what we're doing here. So, illuminating that list seems essential to understand it. 

Emmy:  I agree completely. Like I said, I understand so much more about politics, government, the way things are run, the destruction of the actual physical planet. It's all related to the list.

Nick:  Yeah. 

Emmy: And the list, if someone's operating by the list, they don't respond to reason or compassion. Those things aren't even part of the equation. 

Nick:  Yeah, it has an incredible amount of shadow energy behind it. Just like this black cloud of energy just driving it. 

Emmy: Yeah. 

Nick: One of the things that just came up for me is, I think it might really help me to clearly say that I'm not sure that I'm free of it. And just really clearly say that. When I said that frame at the beginning of it, I'm realizing that that might really help. Because I can feel that part of it is, I don't know. I don't know if I'm free of it, and I don't know if the list is complete. Because by definition, it's a shadow list. And so, I think that that is really important to specifically say that: yes, I've done a lot of work around this, but there's no way I can say for sure that I'm free of it completely. And so, I could be manifesting parts of this and just not know it. 

Emmy: I think you're on to something there. I think that's the most honest answer you can give is, here's my list as of today. And there may be shadow in me where I still operate from it. Because I say this because I can say that about my list. And I feel like the work I've done with shadow is it is layers. I found that layer. My gosh, there's more. I thought I was done with this, but no, there's more. And I may find that years later. I think that's the nature of shadow. I know from my list, I really try not to operate from it. But it's still alive in me. So in some ways I am, even if it's just the voice in my head that causes me a little doubt in that moment about what is the right action here. And I feel like one of the things we're trying to do with 'Ask a Dude' is to live according to our highest self, our highest consciousness. And that takes work, presence, staying present, staying alert. It's not an easy task. It's a great goal. 

Nick: Yeah. Boy, that really. Yeah. . . . . Yeah. It really feels like an important piece for sure, to be really clear about that. I definitely know that I'll never know, for sure. Every experience I've had in Shadow Work tells me it's a lifelong process. Any time I've encountered someone who felt confident about their Shadow Work or spoke about their Shadow Work in the past tense, trust level plummets. I'm not gonna trust that person. Or I will be very skeptical of that if they're talking about their Shadow Work in the past tense. It's like, "That's not how I'm experiencing it at all." So I think that that would really help. In no way do I feel done. This is the list as it stands today. Who knows? It might be the complete list. I might discover an item tomorrow. Or the rest of my life, I might be discovering new items all the time. I have no idea. It's by definition impossible to know. And in no way am I pretending that I'm free of it completely. Because I can't. I can't know that. 

Emmy: I think that's such an important distinction to make. And for me personally, if someone is striving not to operate by the things on their list, that means so much to me. We don't have to reach perfection. But I'm sure there are more things that I can add on my list. I'm sure of it. 

Nick: Yep. 

Emmy:  And I'm sure there are ways I'm operating that I didn't even realize, "Gosh, why am I operating that way? That's not authentic to me at all." I'm sure of that too. 

Nick: Yeah. I think that's a really important piece. And also, not to pretend that there's lots of errors in my past and misbehavior in my past. You know, this is something we're talking about in the present tense. 

Emmy: Did you say, not to pretend that you don't have any errors? 

Nick: Yeah, misbehavior in my past. 

Emmy:  Mm-hmm. 

Nick:  Because I do. 

Emmy:  Mm-hmm. 

Nick: And that was a big part of what motivated me to work on this, was bad, bad outcomes and hurt and badness and just feeling terrible about things and not understanding really what had happened or why I did some things, why I did the things I did. And feeling that hand, that dark hand of grabbing my steering wheel and saying, "What was that?" 

Emmy:  Really?

Nick:  So I think that's another important point. Not pretending I have some spotless history with this. It's not that way at all. What I can say for sure is that this is the list I know of now, and it's very important for me to do this work - deprogram my brain from doing anything connected to that list at all. That I can say for sure. 

Emmy: Yeah, I think that's, you know, the work of any kind of reconciliation is making peace with our past, recognizing who we are, what we did, what we didn't do, and making peace with ourselves. And for me personally, anyone who's on the path of healing and right living, conscious living, it's not so much what they did, it's who they are now and who they're striving to be and that they're actually doing the right thing. That's to be commended in my mind. 

Nick: It feels like something really shifted. 

Emmy: Yes. 

Nick: I mean, that felt like a shift about sharing it, but the part about it not being complete and not knowing and my own... 

Emmy: And having passed. 

Nick: I think that feels like... 

Emmy:  Yes! 

Nick:  It might be it. 

Emmy:  Yes, I feel that too. 

Nick: Yeah. And I think there... That was kind of a bombshell for me, so I think there's maybe more to discover there. I think I kind of a little bit need a minute. You know, just like, "Okay, wow, let's let that sit and reflect a little bit on that." And maybe there's something else to discover, but I'm not sure what. And then it definitely won't shift without talking about it. I don't know how to do it without talking about it. If it stays in that taboo space, I don't know. I don't know. That's a... it doesn't seem like a good strategy, not talking about it. And that's just one of the essential pieces of shadow work is that you have to talk about it. There has to be something in the light of day that happens. 

Emmy: Yeah.

Nick: Because that’s what it does. It thrives in the dark. 

Emmy:  Right. Right. And I've said this to you before, but I am just so grateful for these candid talks that we have about this shadow work because I'm not going to go to my grave with all these unsolved mysteries about men! Seriously, it really helps. And it gives me hope that I might be able to move forward and have more compassion and open a space for more harmony between the feminine and the masculine. 

Nick: That would be a fantastic outcome. Be amazing to move that forward in any way, would just be amazing. The other thing that just popped into my head is that maybe the terribleness of this list, the shockingness, because maybe it will shock some people. I don't know. It's whatever it is, the potency of it. I don't know the word to use. Maybe it will have an impact because it is so terrible. It could be like a shock in the system. I don't know. Maybe there's some benefit to being so horrible. 

Emmy:  I hear you. It's almost like getting cold water thrown in your face or something. It kind of wakes a person up. 

Nick:  Uhhh...

Emmy: Uhhh...

Nick: Yeah...How it is manifesting is so catastrophic. Just what's happening worldwide. 

Emmy: Yes. 

Nick: Understanding what's driving it feels important. 

Emmy: Yes. It's very empowering for me personally to understand what's driving it. It's incredibly empowering. Nick, I think we covered a lot of ground in our talk today. I feel like something may have shifted around all this. Would you agree? 

Nick:  It feels that way to me. Yeah, I'm really glad we talked it over and I'm glad we talked about the process because the process has been pretty intense. 

Emmy: Yes. 

Nick: And unnerving. So it was really great to talk it over. Fantastic. 

Emmy: Yeah. This was really helpful for me too. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time today and for your honesty and integrity as always. 

Nick: Thank you. Thank you for your gracious hosting. 

Emmy:  This is Sacred Truths with Emmy Graham with music by Lemon Music Studio from Pixabay. This concludes a special episode of Ask A Dude with Emmy and Nick. Please visit our website at sacred-truths.com. Thank you for listening.