In this episode, we sit down with Glanbia to discuss their business decision to transition supply chain management responsibilities from an internal team to DHL Supply Chain. Hear how partnering with an experienced 3PL enabled them to maximize their supply chain value by increasing productivity, visibility and agility while simultaneously capitalizing on emerging growth opportunities.
Special Guests:
In this episode, we sit down with Glanbia to discuss their business decision to transition supply chain management responsibilities from an internal team to DHL Supply Chain. Hear how partnering with an experienced 3PL enabled them to maximize their supply chain value by increasing productivity, visibility and agility while simultaneously capitalizing on emerging growth opportunities.
Special Guests:
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to All Business, no Boundaries, a collection of supply chain stories by DHL Supply Chain, the North American leader in contract logistics. I'm your host, will Hayward. This is a place for in-depth discussions on the supply chain, challenges keeping you up at night. We're breaking beyond the boundaries that are limiting your supply chain. Today's episode is, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Ensuring your supply chain can go to the distance. Our guests are Robert Lindstrom, director of Logistics at Glam, and Tom Campbell, senior Director of Business Development at DHL Supply Chain. Let's dive in.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Okay, great. Well thanks to both of you for being here today. I've been looking forward to the discussion. I wonder if we could start by asking you to introduce yourselves, you know, your role and the organization you work for and how long you've been there. So Robert, let's go with you first.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
That's great. Thanks Will. My name is Robert Lindstrom. I am the Director of Logistics at Glam Performance Nutrition. We are industry leading health and wellness provider in the food and beverage space. I have been with GLAM now for a little over five and a half years, coming through our logistics group here with distribution now have responsibilities for transportation as well. So thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Great. Tom?
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yes, Tom Kimball, senior director of business development for DHL. Just recently celebrated 12 years but actually worked in the CPG space with Kraft Foods for 23 years. So I have a little bit of background on what our customers need from a logistics and supply chain standpoint.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Good, good. Well, like I said, welcome to you both, Robert. I don't know that Columbia's brand that everybody recognizes, so I wondered if you could tell us a little bit about the company and some of the products that you offer.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Yeah, we are. Yeah, that's a good point. So Irish based company, you trade over across the pond under Glambia, you'd know our dairy products and our cheese products quite well, but local within the performance nutrition market, folks may recognize brands such as Optimum Nutrition, which is our number one protein on the market there. We have Think, which is a ready to eat health and wellness brand. On the Go Bars we have Slim Bass, which a lot of us have known and growing up over a couple decades here, which is a diet program. Also support Amazing Grass, which is my personal favorite. The Grain super fruit. So a lot of vegetables and vitamins, all into an organic green mix here. So about a $2 billion, give or take kind of a global cap here. Pretty big in the us. Number one globally, you know, big presence in Brazil, India, China, all regions that health and wellness can be found in very emerging markets. Got
Speaker 3 (02:49):
It. And you guys are based up in Chicago?
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Yes, yes. Globally headquarters is in Ireland and then our US based headquarters is in Downers Grove, which is about 15 miles outside Chicago. We have our Aurora plant, one of the largest powder producing plants in the world where we control all that, that powder production in Aurora. And then our facility with DHL in North Aurora, maybe about 15 minutes away, right down the road here. So it's nice that we have all of our corporate and all of our field roles all within about a 20 minute radius of each other. I find myself in and outta the offices outta the fields a lot, which is really nice. Get to have eyes and ears on all the operations.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Got it. And you had a background in foods as well,
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Right? I did, yeah. Tom referenced his time at Kraft Foods. I did about 10 years there. Various roles within customer service. Did client services, which is a lot of project management work in a transformation space. It was a lot of fun back there and it, it's carried through, you know, I think a lot of folks that kind of grew up in that space in the last 30 years just recognized the talent and the pipeline that comes out of there. So a lot of network connections such as Tom with DHL has led us to where we're at today.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Great, great. So Tom, could you describe the relationship between DHL and Glambia?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Certainly it started again with a need from Columbia standpoint. The building was absolutely full and running on an SAP instance that was actually tied to the warehouse. So in early discussions we talked about what we do as a service offering around buildings and around WMS and bundled services, whether it's spotting or e-comm. So there was actually an RFP that Columbia had put out to the street to find a new partner versus trying to build it all internally. I think as Al described it and Robert, there was a strong recognition that they could try and muscle through it and do it themselves, but it would take much longer. The folks that Glambia did have familiarity with being they're in the North Aurora area, we have a number of other customers in that area and we were able to showcase some of our operations in the Chicagoland area around e-comm and around just regular route to market for retail and food service and club store customers.
(05:07):
So we were able to showcase the supply chain and gave the team a strong understanding of what we do. Not everyone's familiar with DHL as a contract logistics provider, but I have to say the folks from glambia were quite knowledgeable beforehand and gained a strong understanding that they could partner with someone and come up to speed immediately to bring improvements to their operations and supply chain versus trying to build it themselves. So it's turned into a five year relationship. We'll be celebrating this August. It's been a great journey while it's building, servicing the entire country. We have worked in several regards of integrating other businesses into that building, many of which Robert just mentioned. So single source building today and services, a lot of different products.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Okay, good. So Robert, when you joined up, it sounds like it was an all in sourced operation, is that correct?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
It was, yeah. And, and Tom I think is being very kind in his words, describing our previous operations and you know, it was where we got to with what we had at the time and it was early recognized, you know, during some leadership transitions that to get where we wanted to go, it wasn't gonna come on the backbone of our internal supply chain operations. We just had grown fast. You look at our trajectory, you know, it was, you know, 10, 12% year over year acquisitions every two years we were operating out of the SAP warehouse module, which can only do so much. It's good for inventory, not good for running the operation to the extent that we were needing to when I came in, in three different buildings across the street. So we were gridlocked with shuttles and having the wrong inventory at the wrong building.
(06:51):
It was just an early recognition and that was brought in to actually kind of shepherd us through this transition here. So known that we were gonna go to a three PL not known, was which one. It was definitely a very strategic intent and we knew as we were kind of going through the strategy and kind of outlaying options here quickly, whether it's equipment, whether it's it, whether it's you know, talent and, and just general supply chain knowledge that we would just kind of weren't fit for purpose in our old buildings as well as it would taken us too long to do that internally. So at that point think it was a, a quick pivot to kind of the RFP process and understand what providers were out there to help get us to that next step. And it wasn't just even about servicing the business, it was about, you know, the, there are strap plans and our vision plans and growth in e-comm, growth in repack and kind of displays.
(07:41):
We were going through channel shifts. So traditionally our products that you may have bought were at A GNC or a vitamin shop. It was shifting to Amazon and Costco and Walmart. So there was just now an expectation that the bar was getting raised in terms of service, both, you know, as from a traditional on time and and in full perspective, but just what we needed to do to further some of these relationships we just couldn't do ourselves. So I think the, the early recognition of that and in the timing of it was, you know, spot on. We made the move here, it was a journey that we were prepared for and we were looking for a partner that was gonna be with us for the long term as well.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yeah. So I'm interested in this concept of first time outsourcing because I know lots of folks across the industry think about it and folks who are in sourcers. Were there doubts within GIA about doing that? And if so, what were they?
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Yeah, absolutely. Biggest piece of it I think was they can't do what we know and, and how do you take all that institutional knowledge and transition it to a new team, you know, new systems, new providers. That was a big leap of faith and, and as we went through that outsourcing assessment, that was such a big factor of, of why we landed with EHL. So you think about the labor in the market, definitely the king in the backyard that, you know, we were fighting for the same forklift drivers or talent in the market, you know, we were concerned about that. Could DHL then follow through on that or could our next three PL follow through on sourcing all that? We got it done and we didn't maybe do it right but you know, we got it out the door and it worked to a lesser extent changing to people that just didn't know the business.
(09:18):
That was just the constant reoccurring conversation. And I think Tom led off with the fact that not only were we able to procure a five-year agreement, but we actually kind of had a precursor agreement where we brought in who was gonna be our general manager and a handful of F-O-D-H-L folks to kind of assess and be able to learn those. One of the biggest ahas during the process was understanding the process. So at that time I was in the business here for about six months and you ask a lot of questions and there's just an inherent thought that we do it well or that we know how we do it. And then when you get under the hood and you really ask some probing questions, the bad habits and inconsistencies have become the norm. So it was really important that not only we find the right partner, but that they come in with us prior to see the old world, see how that institutional knowledge is transferring into the operation with the intent that with the knowledge, the know-how the enhanced equipment, the better IT resources, you guys can take that and make it better for us.
(10:17):
Which needless to say happened time and time again here. So it was say a leap of faith internally for the folks that came up to the organization. I came in at a time where I was very fortunate to have a lot of leadership that was coming from big CPG that knew what good looked like. So we knew there was gonna be growing pains, we knew there was gonna be a lot of skeletons that were gonna be found in the closets when we started really dipping into like the guts of the operation and really understanding how we got it done. But I think quickly through the startup it was very apparent that it was not only the right choice, you know, kind of in the short term here, but all those other steps that we made to kind of get the team on the floor and see the way it was done, I think built that trust beforehand.
(10:57):
'cause Now we had earlier working relationships, people that were now familiar names on a call or whatever the case may have been, you know, we got a little bit of a jumpstart with the teams that do the work with the employees that we were looking to retain. That was a big retention strategy of ours. So I think we quickly doled any of those concerns that were just subjective. You know, folks hadn't really been, you know, through the weeds on these kind of transitions before or dealt with a world class provider that we had a lot of confidence in. So yeah, we had to kind of convince some of them like you just got to trust us and and come along for the ride. And now they're the same ones banging on my door asking what could we do next with DHL. So
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Startups are a time when the rubber meets the road. Right. Tom, you've been through a number in your career and obviously with gia. I wonder if you could talk from a three PL perspective of how do you think about startups and then I'll come back to Robert and see what did that feel like to go through that?
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Sure. So within the opportunity like this, we do our due diligence around startup and ramp up. They're real dollars. So we get challenged a lot that it seems like a lot of money sometimes, but this is very important to having that clean cut over. And Robert mentioned it, I don't think he gave it enough recognition. We literally supplemented a workforce for their forklift operators with a general manager and brought folks in for 90 days into their building before the new building was even ready. So there was a number of prep work that was going on with the new operation, but to his point, we had folks working under our direction, but alongside their employees learning a system that eventually was gonna go away. But what they were able to learn was the process and the products and the handling types, right, and any customer nuances that were gonna happen.
(12:45):
So that really helped when we went to the new building. But Robert also mentioned about a labor takeover, which being the fact that we're so close within the Aurora and North Aurora area, we sat down with our HR team and the Glambia HR folks and went through a whole discussion around, you know, red circling and wage differentials where DHL's wages would be for that area of, of the city and put together a strong plan that transition. And we ended up retaining the right folks and the folks that wanted to stay and work. And there was folks that probably wanted to stay with Glambia and made a shift to move back into the manufacturing facility. But the ones who enjoy working in an environment joined us, joined the DHL team, came on with the new building and I think it's a strong endorsement to understand that that general manager we put in there for that 90 day period is still working five years later now on the account along with some of the resources that support the account.
(13:49):
So our director of operations, some of the folks in the offices and the taskers have been there from day one and continue to operate the operation with Robert and he sees those same folks every day and when he's working in the building and it's just a testament to a good plan that was executed and continues to evolve into a really strong supply chain. Good. Yeah. So Robert, how did it feel to you? I don't know how many megabytes will you have <laugh>? But it, it was not to be unexpected. I think it's the recognition of you don't realize what you have till you go to to do it and it's not there. And really it was more internal on us, I would say. And I think we've carried these lessons forward. You know, we've brought in, you know, three other businesses now, some of the brands that I referenced before, I'm sure we'll talk about that a little bit later, but we've been able to apply all those lessons forward and you really realize, you know, how black and white, some of it becomes, you know, the S-A-P-W-S connection is straightforward.
(14:52):
Like there's no email, there's no, you know, this person's known this inherently to do this placard, it's gotta be in the system. And so what really I think tripped us up was things that weren't needed before or that weren't utilized before now meant something in terms of a signal that we were sending. So a really easy one is shelf life requirements. We have international customers or or local market customers that expect a certain amount of shelf life on the products because of a market condition specific to them. And our master data didn't reflect that or the customer profile didn't reflect that. And then we actually executed what was sent through that R-S-A-P-E-D-I file would've sent to the DHL team. And then people are like, Hey, well why did this happen? I sent an email, we gotta get out of this. Like we gotta let the systems be the kind of book of record and we gotta have very clear flags on or off or digits that get transposed out or notes that get passed through because we don't live in a world where a forklift driver sitting at a desk waiting for his next pick ticket.
(15:52):
And that's literally what we came from was a clipboard and a printout from SAP of where the inventory was supposed to be and how much to go get. And now it's all sent through to the forklifts. You know, very basic fundamental stuff that we weren't doing before that people now had to be accountable for. And we had to go clean up our side of the business here. So a lot of work done in customer profiles, master data can't even tell you for folks that are looking at this, you gotta really look at what you're using your ERP for and its intent and making sure that it's accurate because it's a garbage in, garbage out type mentality. And no one would know that it was wrong until you get a complaint from a customer. And we had a lot of those and I would say a lot of that was self-inflicted and the ones that were different loading practices or something else may have gotten missed in kind of startup.
(16:43):
It was pretty hectic. We were tearing down one building, putting in the rack in the new building. Things happened like that. But it was really about setting those operational disciplines. And we have, since day one we've had a nine o'clock meeting and a three 30 meeting every day. There's no reason to miss it. And you know where to go if you have a priority, but we also then can troubleshoot some of those things. And in the beginning those things were going an hour, hour and a half, we've got 'em down to like 10 minutes, which is great until you kind of understand, you know, how you're operating with your provider there, you really, it's just hard to have those expectations that it's gonna go flawless. So E even we did hours of blueprint mapping and pacing and the DHL onboarding team, it was top-notch. Amber was our project lead.
(17:23):
I still remember her. We worked so close as much as we thought we had accomplished during those rubber hits the road when the switch gets turned on and you know, all ships are off the dock. So it definitely caught us a couple times off guard of why things weren't going as expected. And we quickly, you know, resource and hypercare teams to get those fixed and very happy to say then we've documented those and applied those because every business transition coming in from a different provider that we brought in over the last five years, it was kind of like a startup in itself. So the last two have gone fantastic, you know, tiptoeing around some other businesses right now that again what we're asking the right questions. And I think that's kind of where it started from was that startup piece. You know, like you think you have everything nailed and then something that was an exception kind of comes through, it's like, oh, I didn't plan on that.
(18:11):
And so how do you fix it so the next time it, it's not an exception anymore, the system is designed to send that signal. So probably long-winded response there, but no, that's a lot of, lot of sleeping hours in the DC and a, a sleeping bag that should be encased in Cooperstown <laugh> from, from my time there. But it, it was again one of those things would would never want to do it again. But learned so much across the board with the help with Tom and his team. I think there was a key piece in there. It was both a blessing and a curse. Not every single CPG customer transacts in each is within SAP and it presents challenges when you go further down the road. So a lot of our customers today go down to the case level, but first and foremost glam BIA already went down to the each level and we build that up to a case, to a pallet, to a truckload in the system.
(19:03):
And so that covered a few things, but that's a critical piece to doing e-comm out of the same building and doing co-packing out of the same building. It gives us that common denominator down to an each today. So every time we've brought a new business unit in, it goes down to the each level and allows us that functionality to break open that case and ship that through our e-com portal. That is a growing need for Glambia that just services another portion of their business. It presented a couple of challenges upfront that we uncovered and we knew that that's a great approach if customers are transacting at that level.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, so a bit going down the supply chain 1 0 1 route there, I have been interested, particularly as you talk about where e-commerce is coming more into the CPG world, what a big deal it is around each is which for the listener is just a single item versus that you'd be getting delivered directly to a consumer versus a case or a pallet going to a store. Can you guys both talk about why it is that that's such a sort of a big deal and how systemically the new warehouse management system that you put in place was able to accommodate that requirement?
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yeah, I can take that first Tom. And you know, you may have a perspective on the backend, but like, like most companies who were talking 2018, you know, we had a strategic pillar of grow e-com and I think that's such an ambiguous thought back then. But you know, we have a website that's consumer facing that we want the interaction, we want that experience to be good. And so before, as Tom said, we ordered everything in each is so we didn't have to worry about our systematic capability to, to handle that 'cause it was one each and if it was a case it was four eachs and, and off we go as we to design the work systematically. Tom kind of spoke about the unit to measure and the hierarchies that had to be kind of reconstructed so that it all flowed. But you know, one thing that was really happy that we decided to do was we kind of, although it's the same transaction SAP, we built flags based on the customer numbers is maybe a simple way to kind of put it that would indicate that if this is a website order, it kind of goes down avenue two.
(21:12):
If it's a retail or B2B order, it goes down rev stream one, stream one always rounds cases. So never in this stream am I going to pick in each. So if ultimately it's calling for seven eaches, I'm gonna pick a full case and cut the three customers aren't receiving less than full cases. But when it's an e-comm order, we want those eaches 'cause that's the way that it's ordered. And so we actually have a systematic set up with WMS that kind of reroutes that and just they have different run rules which allows us to claim in two different sandboxes. So it'd be upfront person, you know, I would say the customer service person managing the order itself totally agnostic. They're, they're doing what they typically would do and we designed by intent allowing then the WMS to pick up that indicator and then do the thinking for us.
(21:56):
So we, we really have no train tracks that kind of cross in that space. And as we brought another businesses, we've had to then redefine what do we want that business to be able to do. And historically, maybe this did ship eaches to a retail DC which was beside me that we would even think about doing that. But things were different, right? Smaller, you know, different times, different capabilities. So we, we then have kind of standardized the expectation now, but first we had to get the system to follow those instructions too. So really happy that we've been able to solve that. And you know, just what it's done for our business is just turbocharged the output. So if you think about at our old DC like I said, working off of duct tape and spit, we were doing like 120 e-comm orders a day on two shifts.
(22:40):
Demand wasn't that high. This is pre covid, so it's not like e-comm was this raging inferno that it became during 20, but we knew we had to get better if we wanted to do that. And as you sit here today, I mean we're knocking out thousands of orders on one shift and questions always come back strategically is you know, well how many can you do? And the real question is how high do you want to go? We can collaboratively with EHL build a plan across more shifts with more space, more equipment, more people. But it's kind of changed questioning internally of e-comm for us, which is the right thing to be asking too, is you build us a demand plan and we'll build then the operational plan behind it. 'cause We have the systems now designed to do this. We have the people and the equipment and space, you know, all in place to do this here.
(23:23):
So this is one of the leading decision points of why we went with the DHL as well as we knew that we wanted to be faster leaner, you know, a more integrated in the space here and, and you know, having DHL's physical and systematic capabilities behind us and which I don't even think we really tapped into a ton, which is kind of funny. I say that 'cause I'm the one now pushing the agenda more. 'cause You know, we are proving ourselves time and time again now in the e-comm space, you know, shipping same day or the outputs are record setting, we can now do these things and it's not a supply chain constraint of why we can't grow in this space. I think one point to recognize is while it was great that GIA was down to the each level, we do have methods to handle other CPG customers that may stop financially at the case level.
(24:11):
Within SAP we have the tools of an accumulator where we can still drop in and, and do each picking for an e-commerce solution in a warehouse. We'll just block any financial transactions until we get to the equivalent of a case and then we'll trigger. And so the customer can still keep cases as the common denominator in in SAP and we can still enable e-commerce to happen in a building with another CPG customer. And so it was just a point that was beneficial, very beneficial for Glambia, but it's not a showstopper for others. I got it. So what's on the horizon? What comes next in this relationship? Definitely some plans in place here. Things that we've done in the recent year or two that is just how do we expand further is kind of the conversation at this point. So we've fully integrated two external brands at the time that were outside the building.
(25:06):
So really big picture wise, we've taken six buildings turned into one, which is great. So single points of inventory and cost efficiencies kind of follow, which has been great. Not much more out there to go get and there's always m and a possibilities here. So really it's about what we hyper charge within the four walls here. So we are continuing blazing on Amazon direct fulfillment and we're kind of in the midst right now of program that we work with Amazon to do their customer fulfillment on ready to eat orders. It's a seasonal program where Amazon doesn't have the refrigerated space in there. And this is a program that has been recognized by Amazon and our customers and internal stakeholders as just such a big win. And again, on the backbone of just continued improvement opportunities little by little from the startup and how do we take that next step and go from 1500 to 17 orders a day, 17 to 19.
(25:58):
I mean it's just, there's been such incremental progress on that, but you take a step back and you look at the outputs, it's just startling to see from German of an idea about a year and a half ago to what we're doing today or like tripling output, which is great. So we'll absolutely look to continue being dynamic partner in the e-comm space both with DHL and our external partners. I imagine most folks listening to this podcast that have a wide CPG kind of touch, you know, those conversations never stop with their customers. You know, how do we kind of do more in e-comm? But again, I think we built that credibility, we built the capabilities as well now. So we're kind of open for those conversations. And who do we wanna partner with in those ones there? We just kicked off a robotic forklift unloading program right now.
(26:40):
So excited that we're kind of a few weeks now into go live on, on having our first robotic forklift taken our pallets off the truck from the plant, freeing up labor efficiency to do better things. Continued understanding kind of further in in the repack and and kitting space. Again, I kind of mentioned that we are further expanding into kind of the retail or food drug and mass channels, which those merchandising opportunities are always coming at us. So, you know, we're trying to kind of really, I would say, professionalize that a little bit more and making sure that we provide speed and accuracy and turn around on all that stuff. I mean that's just within a small window here, but I would say is we, within the Glambia ranks, it's become such an expectation that it executes without question and, and a lot of that, again, it's been a prove it world, you know, especially during the covid rebound and everything where the DHL team is just inherent that it's gonna get done.
(27:35):
Like, and that's a great place to be within my conversation. Not trying to explain all the rollovers that we may have or, you know, not being able to get things done as expected. There is this absolutely gonna be a focus on continued improvement, you know, what can DHL bring to us that we haven't seen yet? And the robotic forklift's a great example and we're open for those conversations, you know, let us tell you no type mentality, but we wanna see innovation and we wanna see, you know, thought leadership in this space here. Got five years plus now under our belt of, you know, understanding our business. So excited about what those new opportunities and technologies will be. Sounds like you're keeping Tom busy. I was gonna answer, I think the, the piece is around labor utilization where Robert says it's inside the four walls. We replaced a spotting company with A-A-D-H-L truck and we now have trained operators that roll off of the forklift on first or second shift and go out and may move trailers for an hour, hour and a half and then go back into the warehouse.
(28:30):
So, you know, that just reduces labor sitting out there when you don't have a full need of a shift worth of spotting, but you may need it over a couple of shifts. And yes, the fox robotic around autonomous unloading, post covid, we're looking at all sorts of things that can either supplement the labor demand, whether it's in the e-com area, how do we make those order fulfillment folks more efficient through technology on the floor? Sweeper scrubber, right? We're doing a lot of autonomous sweeper scrubbers at sites and hopefully we'll be bringing one to Gaia with the ability to keep up with the sanitation needs but not have to have somebody manning that as it operates around the warehouse floor. So it's a little bit of a different world now around the labor where wages have gone due, the payback on some of these things that we used to think were nice to haves are now, you know, you really do need to invest in them because you, you just don't need to hire an additional individual and or rehire if you have turnover, right? So it's really changed the investment piece on that technology side and innovation side. And so it may not be bringing another business unit in the building.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
There's efficiencies to be gained. Yeah. Great. Well, sounds like a ton of change over a short five years and more to come and I, I think we could call night about this stuff, but we'll close off there. I really appreciate both of you guys sharing your joint experience. I think it's quite interesting to hear what a first time outsourcing process looks like and the change management involved and all of the different considerations and complexity that get baked into that. Sounds like this has been a successful version of that, which can be, you know, a quite high risk activity. So congratulations to you both on that. And again, thanks for sharing the story today. Yeah, thanks Will. Yep. Thank you Robert. Thank you will. Have a great day. Thank you, you too.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to rate us and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. You can also re-listen to our entire library of episodes on our website, dhl.com/amb podcast. See you next time.