Sara Safari is on a mission. She is an author, speaker, climber, educator, and Ph.D. candidate; and an inspiring woman actively making a difference in the world. Her goal is to climb The Seven Summits and has dedicated her life to empowering women around the world.
Quotes from This Episode
Learn More About Sara Safari
Resources Mentioned in this Episode
Quotes Mentioned in this Episode
"The hardest person you will ever lead is yourself" - Bill George
Sara Safari is on a mission. She is an author, speaker, climber, educator, and Ph.D. candidate; and an inspiring woman actively making a difference in the world. Her goal is to climb The Seven Summits and has dedicated her life to empowering women around the world.
Quotes from This Episode
Learn More About Sara Safari
Resources Mentioned in this Episode
Quotes Mentioned in this Episode
"The hardest person you will ever lead is yourself" - Bill George
My guest today is Sara Safari. She has an incredible story. And I cannot wait to jump into this conversation. Because what we're featuring today is a woman who is out there and making a difference in the world, doing the work, so to speak, a lot of our podcasts focus on theory, we feature professors who are translating theory. And this is a woman who is actually out in the world, making things happen making a difference. And so I can't wait and you're combining two things. I love Sara, you're combining climbing and mountains with leadership and doing good in the world. And so congratulations, good for you. I can't wait to dive in. Why don't we start with you sharing a little bit about you. And then from there, maybe we jump into the story. Sound good?
Sara Safari :Sounds great. So first of all, nice to meet you here. And I'm so happy to be on this podcast. Yeah, a little bit about me. I moved to the United States 18 years ago, with my family with not knowing the language, the culture. Just, I only knew the United States from the movies from Hollywood, maybe like the 20 movies that I watched all my life until that point. And that was it. And my family decided to bring my siblings and I to the United States, because they wanted us to have a better future more opportunities. And I had no idea what I'm going to do here. I just thought, you know, I was good at math and physics. I thought, I'm just gonna do that for the rest of my life. I'm gonna get a job. Then, get some money, get out, have a good income, get a car, get a house, get married, have two kids. And that's about it, that's the end.
Scott Allen :And then...
Sara Safari :None of that happened!
Scott Allen :When and I'm scared to ask what the what some of the movies you had seen before you got to the United States that informed your impression.
Sara Safari :I loved Terminator, Shark all those crazy action movies. I love those. Right now I cannot watch any of them but I mean, they are not satisfying enough. But back then I love those.
Scott Allen :Oh, wow. Well, good and so and so then you in recent years. Well fast forward a little bit. So you go to college, correct?
Sara Safari :Yeah, I went to UCLA studied electrical engineering bachelor, bachelor's and master's and then I worked in two different companies. And then at one point in life, I realize this is not big enough. I am not. I this is I am satisfied, but not as much as I wanted to. There's so much more out there. And one of my advisors and professors at UCLA and also at work, my boss told me that I lacked self confidence. I'm too shy, and I need to work on that. And then that was when I decided to take this seminar. It was a leadership seminar and it was just a three day Friday, Saturday, Sunday seminar called Landmark Worldwide and I took the seminar and the leader of the seminar said, "Come up with the project so big and huge beyond yourself... something impossible. And I couldn't think of doing anything impossible. And somebody behind me started talking about Everest, and I just heard the word Everest and I thought, "oh my god, this is perfect." I don't know anyone in my family or extended family who have ever hiked. I've never been camping before. I don't own a pair of hiking boots. I've never slept in a sleeping bag. I hate cold weather. I'm scared of cockroaches and spiders. This is perfect. Impossible. I'm hundred percent sure this is impossible.
Scott Allen :Wow.
Sara Safari :And I announced that I'm going to do that.
Scott Allen :Wow. So you announced I'm going for Everest first?
Sara Safari :Yeah, I had no idea what it takes. I had no idea. Zero information. I'd never even heard about anybody else in the whole world who have done it. So I zero research I just said I want to do it because I it sounded like a very impossible thing.
Scott Allen :Yes, yes.
Sara Safari :Yeah. And I went home and I Googled "How to climb Everest." And very first link, I started reading it said it takes 60 days and that's when I decided to quit because I thought, "who goes hiking for 60 days. I mean, I I can even go for two hours."
Scott Allen :So there isn't like a I think I just downloaded the other day a couch to 10 K, you know you this this it'll it'll train you for 15 weeks to run a 10 K. So there wasn't a couch to Mount Everest plan, right? Wasn't there?
Sara Safari :No, it wasn't there. But you know what, finally I when I started hiking and climbing just a little bit mountain by mountain I kept failing and failing and failing I never made it to any of the mountains. I have some stories that I shared in my book and on my social media about the number of times that I've failed and the pictures and videos of me crying and quitting and but then there was one day when a specific day that I finally decided to hundred percent quit mountain climbing and put it aside and get rid of all my gear and it was very only six months into my decision. And that was the day that I met the founder of organization Empower Nepali Girls. And he told me this story of the girls who become victims of human trafficking or forced to get married at a very young age. And I kind of surprised myself again, when I announced that I'm going to go back to my training for Everest again, but this time, I'm going to raise $1 per foot of any mountain that I climb, to provide education for these girls.
Scott Allen :Wow. Wow. So you have you have the the objective mission, but then you have another mission that's incredibly important, which is helping these young women.
Sara Safari :Yeah, yeah. And the funny thing was, I had no idea how to climb that until that point, I never submitted any mountains in my life. And now I just had a whole list of mountains to climb and be successful and make it to the top to make sure that I'm raising funds for these girls. So it wasn't about me anymore at this point. It was all about something. I some people, some strangers that I haven't met, I don't even know their language. I don't even know their culture until I met them actually.
Scott Allen :Well, so tell me about the moment from a climbing perspective where you thought, "Wow, maybe I can do this." Was there a summit that you achieved where your confidence started to build and how many years into your endeavor, was this period?
Sara Safari :Two weeks.
Scott Allen :Really?
Sara Safari :Yeah. So from the moment that I heard the stories of the girls who become victims of human trafficking, there was a there was climbing season in Argentina, and I was supposed to go and climb the highest peak in South America Aconcagua which is 23,000 feet. Well, now For somebody who hasn't ever made it to the top of any mountain now I'm going to Aconcagua, which is, you know, 23,000 feet is very high.
Scott Allen :Yes. You're not playing around at that point.
Sara Safari :Yeah, yeah. The good thing about that mountain is it's not very technical. It's hiking, but hiking in a very high elevation.
Scott Allen :Okay. So it may be somewhat similar to Kilimanjaro, I imagine of all of them Kilimanjaro would I mean, it's not "easy" but it's the easiest of them of the seven peaks.
Sara Safari :Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it's like Kilimanjaro. 4000 feet more.
Scott Allen :Okay. Okay.
Sara Safari :And it takes longer. Kilimanjaro takes seven days. Aconcagua takes 20 days roundtrip.
Scott Allen :Okay, so you get you get there. You have 20 days round trip to do this climb.
Sara Safari :Yeah.
Scott Allen :You Do it. You make it?
Sara Safari :Yeah. And I am To the top this is my very first summit. And that was an I didn't feel bad, I didn't feel the altitude, I was extremely strong. I just thought, "oh my god, I can actually, this is possible I can do this." And, and then that I didn't have the courage to take the flag of Empower Nepali Girls to that mountain because I wasn't sure that I can make it or not. And I didn't want to. I just I just thought I was that that's not a good idea to advertise a lot. Because I wasn't sure about myself. I didn't have the confidence.
Scott Allen :Sure. Sure.
Sara Safari :The moment that I was standing on the top, and I knew this is possible. I that's when my I that's when I started fundraising like crazy because now I knew I'm going for it.
Scott Allen :Wow. So it's almost like a mindset shift of, "okay, I've had this when now I can set my sights on on something bigger." And. I and there must have been almost an identity shift of did you start even kind of thinking of yourself as a climber at that point?
Sara Safari :I still didn't think of myself as a climber because we didn't climb, we were just hiking. It was just a walking. So I had to climb a bunch of other mountains in between Aconcagua and Everest to practice a lot of ice climbing, glacier ice walking using ice axe and crampons to feel more confident. And then after all of that, especially after that I climb Cho Oyu. Cho Oyu is 27,000 feet and most of it is ice climbing.
Scott Allen :Okay, now where's is that mountain for our listeners
Sara Safari :Cho Oyu is in China, isn't it in Himalayas, it's very close to it. Everest, and it's on the border of China and Nepal. So when you stand on top of Cho Oyu you can the first thing that you see is Everest, like just next to you. It's so close that you feel like I'm just going to jump and stand on the summit of Everest and be done with this.
Scott Allen :That would be awesome, wouldn't it?
Sara Safari :I wish, I wish I had the wings.
Scott Allen :Now, how long did that climb? Take?
Sara Safari :45 days.
Scott Allen :45 days. And now at this point. Have you met any of the young women that you're doing this work for?
Sara Safari :Yes.
Scott Allen :Would you would you tell me the story of the first time? Well, it was a gentleman that you had met who had founded this organization, correct?
Sara Safari :Yes.
Scott Allen :And so tell me about the first time you actually start meeting these young women.
Sara Safari :So I went to Nepal. And the President of the organization was supposed to come to my hotel, pick me up and take me to school, one of the schools because there are 14 different locations that the girls are getting education. This one was just one of the schools
Scott Allen :Okay.
Sara Safari :And he picked me up with his small car, it was a Nepali car and he be arrived at a place that five minutes from my hotel and the doors open and there was two lines of his student like girls, little girls. Like I want to say they look like they're five years old, but they are just very small in size. So they were like eight years old, but they look like a five year old.
Scott Allen :Okay
Sara Safari :They were standing they were holding flowers in their hands and some of them they were holding khata. Khata is a shawl that is like a scarf that is blessed by Dalai Lama. And then so they were holding that and I walked in and, there is these two lines and each one is a stepping in front of me either give me a flower, or put a scarf around my neck and they were saying, "namaste", which means I see the light in you. And or they were saying, "thank you for helping us." And I started crying, I completely lost it. And that was right before to you this was the first day of my 45 day trip, top of Cho Oyu and back. So that whole 45 days on Cho Oyu, there were days that I was crying in my tent because I couldn't make it take it anymore. I was just tired. I was sick. I was coughing. I just wanted to go back home. And I would think of the moment when I saw that two lines of girls and they were looking at me like I'm going to fix their life for them. And I would just imagine those girls, and I couldn't quit. I just I just had to take the next step. And there were days that I was like crying as I was climbing because I was so tired. That picture, that picture saved me the whole time.
Scott Allen :So tell me, tell me a story from Cho Oyu that that maybe represents a breakthrough. And I know that I know that you you mentioned that you'd look at the picture of the girls or that you would think about the girls and that would help motivate you. Was there any other breakthrough that you had on that mountain that that again then maybe even helped you kind of conceptualize Everest?
Sara Safari :There are I can tell a lot of his stories I'm trying to pick which one would be the best one. One of them that is, was really shocking, like I there were so many times that I was hundred percent sure I'm done, and I cannot Take one more step. I just couldn't find a little bit of energy inside me to take the next step. I would stand at 25,000 feet and have a huge discussion/argument with myself about "What are you doing here?" It took me like 12 seconds to convince myself to take one step. And I would take one step and then I would have another argument with myself about, "okay, that's that was okay, now for the next one." So, it was just when when it was done and finished, and I was sitting in my tent after the summit, I was I just realized that our body has so much potential, and we have no idea like we can do so much when we think this is it a bit. We don't have enough energy. So So what really transformed to answer your question, like when I'm here on the ground and there is a pandemic and I have to stay at home for months and months, I just think about the mountains and I think about the times that I had to ever stuck in my tent. I during this storm, I didn't have food or water I couldn't use the toilet there is I haven't showered for days and days and weeks. But I was still continuing on and I still made it to the top of the mountain and came back. So now during their pandemic, I couldn't complain. I'm like, do you have shower? Yes. Do you have restroom? Yes. Do you have a bed and pillow? Yes. Okay. Don't complain.
Scott Allen :Just take your next step. And yeah, it'll be okay. Right. And there's a you know, as as we're speaking, I'll put it in the show notes but the leadership scholar is escaping my mind. But he was the CEO of Medtronic, and he had a he had a quote that I loved, which is the hardest person you'll ever lead is yourself like that. And so in that moment, I mean, I have so much respect. I have watched film after film after film about these mountains, whether it's, you know, North Face or shorts that are on YouTube, or some of the larger films by that feature Alex Honnold or any of the other famous climbers that that and incidents right the the Krakauer book and so I have so much respect for that story. And so for any of our listeners who have not have no concept of what we're discussing right now, gosh, Sarah, can you think of a film that we could point listeners to just at this point in the film to help them understand? Is it Meru? That's kind of an interesting film that features some some injured individuals summiting a mountain for the first time in the Himalyas.
Sara Safari :Meru is amazing? Yeah.
Scott Allen :Oh, yeah, maybe we have maybe we point listeners to that film.
Sara Safari :Or the movie Everest like the movie that came out on 2015.
Scott Allen :Okay. Okay, good. Because this is not this is not a walk in the park. This is incredibly difficult stuff. And when you even look at the some of the statistics on K2, you know, a certain percentage of people are not successful and don't come home when trying to attempt that, that mountain and you're successful. It's an incredible win. Tell us a little bit more about what happens next. You meet young women...
Sara Safari :Yeah, I met them and that increased my motivation like 3000 times. And now I knew why I'm doing what I was doing. I increased my training. Now. I was done. I was at 27,000 feet and the next mountain was Everest. So I had the confidence. I knew that I'm ready for Everest if I made it 45 days and 27,000 feet. Next one is just 60 days and 29,000 feet.
Scott Allen :Nice.
Sara Safari :So I was ready. I was confident I increased my training, I increased my fundraising. It was just I was on top of it until a 7.8 earthquake happened.
Scott Allen :Hmm. Now, you so you're so now you're fast forwarding to you're actually on Everest at this point, correct?
Sara Safari :Yes.
Scott Allen :Okay. Yeah. Okay. So you train you get back to Nepal? Yeah, you get to Basecamp. Yeah. And and how high up are you when when the earthquake hit?
Sara Safari :It's 20,000 feet right above the Basecamp, Basecamp is 17,000. And it takes 10 days to get to the Basecamp and it takes 10 days to practice crossing ladders in Khumbu Icefall. Yes, Khumbu icefall is the most dangerous part of Everest for people who don't know about it, just Google it and you'll see crazy pictures of this piece of mountain. It's the most dangerous the most unstable part of Everest, but the most beautiful part of the mountain there. There are glaciers in the form of pieces of ice like a three floor building. But they look like there was a crazy drunk artist, we're making a statues with ice and created all those. It's beautiful. It's gorgeous, like the whole time that I was walking even though I had to cross ladders, over this deep crevaces that I can't even see the bottom, but I was in awe of that beauty. So it takes 10 days practicing crossing ladders because it's just they are so dangerous. And it needs some time to get used to that. And the ladders are very different. They're 45 degrees, they're flat, some of them are on the walls. And you just need to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth until you feel much more comfortable. So that takes 10 days. And after 10 days, it was the time to go up. And that was April 25, 2015. When we were at 20,000 feet when a 7.8 earthquake has struck Nepal. Yeah, I was on an ice wall. Like have you watched Game of Thrones?
Scott Allen :Yes.
Sara Safari :Yeah. So that ice wall that they have me climbing that. And there were five ladders on top of each other. And then there was just a little bit of a gap. And then that was the end of the wall. So I was on top of the fifth ladder, and I was about to finish the wall when the earthquake struck us. And the whole wall started shaking left and right and left and right. And at that point, because the whole mountain was shaking first I thought, "oh, the ladder is loose." But then when I saw so much snow and debris are falling on me, and I can see anything then I realized No, this is much bigger than the ladder and coming from California, that horizontal movement first like an earthquake
Scott Allen :Wow.
Sara Safari :And everything started breaking down pieces of ice were falling down the mountain and the noise that it made was like a rocket taking off. So the noise was extremely scary. I couldn't see anything. I couldn't breath and breathing at 20,000 feet is really hard. And now, add avalanches, like a bunch of avalanches that are happening at the same time all over the mountain to it. So there was so much snow and debrisin the air. It was hard to get oxygen in.
Scott Allen :Wow.
Sara Safari :So I had to climb up past the edge. There was an anchor there. I knew that so I clicked myself to the anchor. But I knew this is it this is the end there is. There is no way that I can survive this and I, I was kicking my feet to the snow to fix myself. I was wrapping the rope around my arms. I was clipping myself, like, twice three times to the anchor. But I knew that, like movies, I saw my life in front of me. I was sad. I was scared. I saw my parents grieving. And there was this moment that I stopped doing anything and I just knew this is it. I'm going to fall down. I'm going to be buried alive under this now. And that's how it's going to finish. And there was this moment of acceptance. I just let go. I allow myself to just just just be there for the last moments and everything is stopped. Everything stopped. I could see like the two people in front of me, they were yelling at me saying things, but I couldn't hear them or understand them. And so the rest of the team were below the ladders. They all gathered up, we all gathered up and we had to continue up. We couldn't go back down because the ladders were unstable. So we continued up we got to the next camp and everybody was so shocked.
Scott Allen :So this was camp two at this point?
Sara Safari :Camp one.
Scott Allen :Camp one. Okay, so base camp and then camp one. Okay. Yes. So how many days were you at Camp one?
Sara Safari :For two days. We were up there and then the helicopter rescued us took us to the basecamp. Basecamp was even worse, because 20 people died there. They got an avalanche, and there were bodies all over there were blood on everybody's jacket. It was just crazy, unbelievable, crazy. And then six days in the basecamp and then we got another helicopter. We went to a village and from that village another helicopter took us to another village. And finally, we got to Kathmandu capital of Nepal. And at this point I was extremely angry because I just raised money for the girls to continue their education. But now they don't even have a home they don't even have water or food they don't even have their basic needs met
Scott Allen :because the the earthquake impacted Katmandu correct.
Sara Safari :Yeah, the epicenter was closer to Kathmandu. So that day 10,000 people died and hundred thousand people became homeless.
Scott Allen :Wow. And you're right there at the epicenter of it.
Sara Safari :Yeah. And I mean, that that's that was when I decided to dedicate my life to this cause because I realized, I mean, there was no way that anybody could survive where I was during that earthquake. That crazy earthquake. I mean Everest has its own risk, avalanche, and earthquake has its own risk being on a wall being on a ladder being in Khumbu Icefall. If I just multiply all these risks, for somebody like me with not much experience, I mean, I climbed a bunch of mountains, but it's not that I have a lot of experience. So I that I felt like, I got a gift, and I need to give that gift back. And, and then so I announced again, I mean, I was very traumatized after I came back home. I mean, just for your listeners. All the girls are doing well right now. This is five years ago. After, so they all have homes and they are back to school back taking on continuing their education. I mean, other than like this past few months that they've been in lockdown, everybody the whole world have been in lockdown. Yeah. Other than that they're doing well. So I didn't want to teach the girls to quit. Okay, I decided I to go back and climb Everest again. So I announced again that I'm going to go back and climb Everest and not just Everest I'm going to add six more mountains and six more.
Scott Allen :I love it. You are You are incredible. So, so I'm gonna I'm going to climb Everest, but I'm also going to add up another six.
Sara Safari :Why not?
Scott Allen :Oh, tell us about that. Tell us about that adventure. Where are you on that path?
Sara Safari :So I've climbed six out of seven.
Scott Allen :Really?
Sara Safari :Yes. So these are Seven Summits, the seven higest peaks on seven continents.
Scott Allen :Okay, so real quick, Tell us. Tell us a snapshot of each one if you would.
Sara Safari :So, Kilimanjaro, the highest in Africa Elbrus,, the highest in Europe, in Russia, in Oceania and Australia. Carstensz Pyramid in South America Aconcagua, which was my first mountain the first summit really. North America Denali, and, and Antartica Mt. Vinson. And the last one, and the first one and the last one that I still haven't summited, Mount Everest, the highest in Asia.
Scott Allen :So So Everest is still on the list.
Sara Safari :Yes.
Scott Allen :So So tell me about that. Tell me tell me how you're thinking about that right now. Tell me about the women and the young girls in the in the school you said that they're doing well and then Then I want to I want to come back to the whole conversation around leadership. What have you learned about leadership throughout this whole process? Because obviously, there's a lot of leadership occurring on the mountain. Leadership and in helping run a nonprofit. There's leadership in just having a vision and a goal and an objective. And so I want to get to that conversation for sure. But so tell us about Everest and then tell us about the girls and then we'll talk about leadership.
Sara Safari :Yeah, so Everest I've been attempting to climb is a bunch of other times after that a few years after when I try to climb it, there's some incident always happened that I never could climb it. The recent one this year, I was supposed to go climb it and the pandemic happened, so because of the pandemic goes down the mountain and then once I broke my arm, so I've been attempting to climb Everest, but incidents happen and then I can't. But the interesting thing about Everest is or any high altitude mountain it is when you plan to climb them you need to start at least six months before the day because I need to train I need to prepare I need to start getting my gear together. So when something like a pandemic happens it's very last minute I'm already ready to climb and then because of pandemic I have to cancel everything.
Scott Allen :Yes. Because May would have been May right?
Sara Safari :Yeah, exactly. We leave in March. And we come back in June, but the whole April and May we are on the mountain. Yeah. So so I've been attempting haven't climbed it, but I climbed to six other ones and secretly, I love that I haven't reached it to the top of Everest yet, because that gives me an excuse to keep trying. Because for me, it's not about getting to the top of the mountain for me to really progress, the people that I meet along the way, and I feel like if I get to the top, then I need to start defining a new Everest for myself. And I like
Scott Allen :I need to have you back Sara, because, well a to hear about your successful ascent of Everest, but then be, I want to hear your next objective. That's gonna be pretty incredible. So tell me, tell me about the girls. How are they doing? And tell me about the work and the cause. And I'd love to hear that end of all of this.
Sara Safari :So that's kind of related to my leadership as topic that you want to talk about which we have Antioch University in common, both of us and so my for my dissertation, this is what I'm working on right now. And creating a leadership. We are creating A leadership workshop with college level girls in Nepal. And we are using participatory action research, which means the participants are a big part of the project in designing the program, creating the program evaluating the program. And this is theirs. I'm just here as a researcher, and we are helping together as facilitators to create this leadership workshop and it's been going amazing. I was worried that the pandemic would stop it, but it's been going amazing, actually, way better than I thought because we are working online on zoom together.
Scott Allen :Okay.
Sara Safari :And that, I think, and that's the great part of the story, because along the way, I got referred to do this PhD project again by the founder of the organization, Dr. Kottler, who originally told me about the girls in Nepal. He also referred me to Antioch University for this Ph. D. program. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah, because I really told them I want to create something for these girls so that we can help them elevate them take them to the next level. Because they were like me, they were like me when I was back in Iran, there were shy, zero confidence, zero communication skills, zero leadership skills, they didn't even know what they have and how to develop it and where to start where to go. And I didn't want them to grow up like me and realize that 30 that this is something that is missing. I wanted to them right at 18 when they come out of high school.
Scott Allen :Wow
Sara Safari :before even going to the college. And that's what I'm doing. Exactly. This is my dream, because this is exactly what I wanted when I was growing up.
Scott Allen :Yeah, what a beautiful story, what a beautiful story. And so tell me the timeline of your dissertation. And then the program, where are you in the process?
Sara Safari :I am actually doing collecting my data. So I defended my proposal a few months back I think in May, yeah, how many more two months ago. And now, I'm collecting data. So hopefully in the next few months, I'll be somewhere. I'll be closer. I love this research so much. I'm enjoying collecting data so much. I don't want it to end. If I wasn't paying tuition, I would be doing this for the rest of my life.
Scott Allen :You needed something else on your plate. So you decided to do a PhD? Well, I would love to have a quick conversation because we're at 35 minutes. So we'll probably we'll probably kind of close down here in the next couple of minutes. But, what if you were to think about the curriculum of what you would kind of share with these young women? What are some components of the curriculum or what are some ways you think about the design of that work? Because it's a wonderful mission. How do you think about that?
Sara Safari :Since it's a participatory action research, this emancipatory side of it makes it really interesting because I have zero. It's kind of zero planning everything. It's so lively and everything is happening as it is happening. It's unfolding everyday it's a new thing. They we change the topics as we go. And I try to do some research and give them some feedback. But I love how it is so lively and open and they are collaborating in every single step and they have the freedom to change anything at any point because this, the process, is so empowering and it is giving them so much energy. They always tell me that nobody ever listened to them the way I'm listening to them in the design of this project.
Scott Allen :Wow.
Sara Safari :And and they are so excited, they started the program, they were so shy, they didn't know what to say didn't know what to share. And now they are monsters. They are so confident. They're just amazing. They I'm in awe their confidence and the way they are. So I go to them for motivation now, even if it might seem like I'm inspiring them, but they're inspiring me all the time.
Scott Allen :It goes both ways, doesn't it?
Sara Safari :Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah. And maybe we should have another call like another podcast session together and kind of dig deeper and talk more about this. But I think this program, this leadership program that we did at Antioch, it's been so helpful for me and for the girls to take our leadership to the next level. And for me, it's been priceless. So I'm very thankful.
Scott Allen :I agree. I'm incredibly thankful for for my time at Antioch University, it was a it was a wonderful experience and mentors that we had there transformed my life for sure, for sure. And I think what a wonderful opportunity you have to be as instrumental in these these women's lives, as you know, some of the mentors that you've had along the way, whether that's on the mountain, I'm sure you've had mentors in that space, or mentors elsewhere. And so but I I just had a, I don't have a well formulated thought, but something that came to mind for me, when it comes to leader development is in some ways, it's a parallel to climbing. right in the beginning, you didn't even know what you didn't know. And you'd never, you'd never camped you didn't and then all of a sudden, you you start, you are a woman right now who has climbed six of the highest peaks in the world. Very few people can say that. And if you think about the beginning of that journey, I'm sure there's been a huge identity shift and an increase in confidence and just a transformation. And I think a lot of times that's what's happening if we're, if we're doing leader development well, if it's well designed, and it's intentional, I think there's so much opportunity to do great good.
Sara Safari :Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I totally agree with you. And "walking the talk." Like a lot of times I ask the girls, "what can I do for you so that we can help the process?" and usually they say, the feedback that they tell me is that, "you have so much energy and motivation and you always do the things that you say you do. So we are learning what we are learning from you is that you walk the talk." And, and that and I'm glad that I'm the role model that I never had all my life until I moved to the United States. Add that I am that role model for them. Because I mean, I mean, I don't have my own kids. But I'm I love it that I get to be that person for them.
Scott Allen :Yeah. Yeah. To be continued Sara. So real quick, I always have a couple questions at the end of the podcast. So what are you reading or streaming or listening to? That's kind of caught your attention lately, and it doesn't have to have anything to do with what we've just discussed. Okay, you know what, what, what's standing out for you right now?
Sara Safari :I recently listened to this book on by Audible. I love Audible I listen to audible a lot. And I try which is the book called Sapiens by Yuval Harari.
Scott Allen :Yes, that is so good.
Sara Safari :I love that book. I'm just, this is my third time reading that book and I love it. And another thing this is not it. This is related to relationships for people who are searching for the right person. I read recently read this book called Attached by Amir Levine, and Heller. It's about attachment laws. And so I needed that. And then I read this book called talking to strangers by Malcolm Gladwell.
Scott Allen :Oh, good, good. Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah. So I have a book for you. If you listen to it might be two or three podcasts ago, Julie Owen. Okay, wrote she wrote a book called, we're the leaders we've been waiting for. And the book is about developing leadership and women. Oh, nice. And it's it's a wonderful read. I'm about 70 pages in and it's been incredible. And I'm learning a lot. So please listen to that podcast, but then also buy her book because I think it could inform some of your work. I think it really could.
Sara Safari :Thank you so much. I will look it up.
Scott Allen :Yes. Okay, I always have I always have three words. And for each guest and if I know the guest, oftentimes I kind of share those three words at the beginning. My, my three words for you are, She Climbed Everest. So now I'm excited for us to continue this conversation, because that's exactly how I'm going to start that episode.
Sara Safari :All right, sounds good. Perfect
Scott Allen :broke the good work. Thank you for the work that you're doing. You are an incredible, incredible person doing incredible work in the world. And thank you. Thank you.
Sara Safari :Thank you, Scott. Thank you for having me.
Scott Allen :You bet you bet.